November 7, 2024 • 73 mins
Two women both named Mary Morris were found dead in the same town within 72 hours, leaving the community stunned and searching for answers. Was it a coincidence or a sinister plot? Join us as we dive into the investigation and explore the eerie similarities between the two cases. If you're a true crime enthusiast, you won't want to miss this episode.
Back for Episode 2! We apologize for the technical difficulties with the audio and will get it fixed for next week. Reminder we now have video on Spotify and Youtube, so join us every week for a new case!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Happy 420. I'm Kai and I'm Queen Reefer and you're watching Stone Cold Murder.
(00:05):
Just a PSA, if you have any information that can help solve a crime, go to
Crimestoppers.com to report any information anonymously. This podcast contains material that might not be suitable for all
audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
Thanks for tuning in for season 3, episode 2. How are you today?
(00:28):
I'm doing good. How are you?
Doing good.
Good.
Yeah, so today we have an insane case. I've already dabbed so we don't have to cut to that.
First, I want to tell you some exciting news that I have.
Who?
Yeah, just what I got.
What did you get?
(00:49):
Corn shoes.
Are you wearing them?
No, you don't even have shoes.
No, I'm poor because of the corn shoes.
But you still have other shoes.
I do sell them all.
To get the corn shoes.
Okay, do you have a picture of the corn?
Of the corn. Of my corn.
(01:10):
You know what, corn is 30 years old. It happens to be the same age as me.
They were established in 1994. I happened to be born in 1994.
(01:37):
So they're doing 30 years of corn and they released...
What?
It just sounds so funny.
Corn, corn, corn.
30 years of corn.
They released a line with Adidas because corn has been a big supporter of Adidas since 1994 basically.
And they have a whole corn line.
(01:58):
I've been trying to get corn shoes for three different releases now.
Oh, I think I've seen them before but I want to see them. I think you showed me the last time they were supposed to come out.
And then they didn't. Or you didn't get them or something.
No, I didn't and I cried.
Aw.
I literally lost my shit because I wanted them so bad. But these ones are cooler.
(02:20):
Pussy.
I will have to admit.
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I kid, I kid.
I guess I'm just too tough to cry.
My favorite.
Did you just cry about corn shoes?
Look at these motherfuckers. They say corn on them.
They're not super special.
(02:42):
But they are me.
Don't make fun of them please.
No, they're cute.
I was just...the picture you showed me was like...
No, they're cute.
No, the picture you showed me was like really blurry.
So I couldn't really see it.
I'm trying to find a better picture.
Okay, here we go.
No, they're cute.
(03:04):
You know what they should? Add like signatures to it.
I think they have their logo and the sole of it.
Oh, cute.
So sorry about the corn distraction.
I'm just excited about that.
It's corn.
It's corn.
I love corn.
I'm glad you got them.
I know.
When do they come in?
Wednesday.
Woo.
(03:25):
I accidentally got two pairs so I have two pairs of corn shoes.
Two pairs.
I'm going to sell the other pair probably.
Yeah.
For corn money.
For next time corn comes.
So we can eat corn and see corn.
With my corn shoes.
Take a shot for every time you see corn.
(03:48):
What?
I just want to hear your best corn impression.
Boom bop da bee da bee da bee bop.
Boom da boom bop ba dee da.
Boom da boom bop ba dee da.
Go boom.
So do you have any exciting corn shoes news?
Shoes shoes shoes.
I don't have corn shoes.
No.
(04:10):
Looks like that's a cool one.
Yeah, I know.
Always has been.
Whatever.
No, I don't have no corn shoes.
Do you have any cool news?
I don't know if it sounded like I said corn shoes.
That's what I thought you said.
I thought you said so do you have any corn shoes?
I was like no.
(04:32):
Not really.
Okay.
I'm just excited for my gym.
I'm building.
Or we're building.
And the sauna.
The sauna.
The sauna.
Can't wait to sit in there at night.
Nice and toasty.
Oh yeah, brother.
Especially for the snow.
Oh yeah.
Hell yeah, brother.
Yeah.
(04:53):
Well are you ready to start this one?
Yes.
Okay.
Well this case is a case of mistaken identity.
Dun dun dun dun.
I already said that I have taken my dab.
So you guys need to get your dabs ready.
Or bowls or edibles perhaps.
(05:14):
Whatever you.
Or if you don't partake that's fine too.
Get some snacks ready and get ready to get into the case.
She looks soft.
Can I touch her?
Okay.
Distracted.
Squirrel.
Oh.
Yes.
(05:36):
Too soon.
RIP peanut.
The squirrel.
If you guys don't know about peanut the squirrel.
Don't go look it up.
You'll cry.
Our nation committed an atrocity recently.
Justice for peanut and Fred.
(05:57):
And Fred yeah the raccoon.
Like what the fuck?
Yeah.
Have you guys heard about this man Danny?
No?
Alright let me tell you this really quick.
So this man has a squirrel that he rescued from a baby.
He's had this squirrel seven years.
He also owns a non-profit animal rescue for animals that cannot be rehabilitated.
(06:21):
Some can but most of them cannot.
So he has a squirrel that can't be rehabilitated in a raccoon that lives with him.
And they're like kind of the forefront of his non-profit.
How he makes money to support his non-profit.
And someone made a complaint about this squirrel on TikTok that he was like mistreating it.
(06:44):
Because it was a wild animal that's inside.
But they didn't know that it's something that can't be released back into the wild.
The DEA came into his house.
Raided his house like he had fucking drugs.
Got a search warrant.
Arrested him.
Arrested this man.
Took the squirrel and the fucking raccoon.
And euthanized them both.
(07:07):
Why was the DEA involved?
That's what I said.
Well I think whoever called it in did one of those like SWAT things.
You know what I mean?
Like one of those.
And he got in trouble and they killed the squirrel and the raccoon.
(07:28):
It was horrible.
They were...
It makes me so sad.
Yeah and now they don't even know how to make money for their non-profit.
Because he was like a train squirrel that did all these tricks and stuff.
Anyways.
RIP Peanut.
Yeah.
So sad.
He was so cute too.
Alright.
Let's get off the squirrel tangent now.
(07:52):
We'll talk about another case.
Equally as fucked up.
Actually probably more fucked up.
Because this is a human case.
Not a squirrel.
So how often do you run into someone with the same name as you?
I've only met one other person with the same name.
But not last name.
(08:13):
Just first name.
Same.
I have a pretty unique name.
I don't come across.
At least many people my age with my same name.
It's a lot of younger people.
And well my name is a disease.
What's the disease?
So.
Actually maybe you don't want to say it on here.
(08:35):
If you don't want your first name on.
Addison's disease.
It's a butt disease.
Aww.
I'm sorry.
What kind of butt disease may it be?
Oh actually I haven't researched it.
I just know it's a butt disease.
(08:59):
I'm sorry for your disease.
So hence why I'm queen reefer sitting here today.
Queen queen reefer.
That too.
As rare as it may seem.
Two women living in Houston Texas.
Both named Mary Lou Morris.
Were about to find themselves with more than just similar names.
(09:21):
Uh oh.
Our story starts out on October 12th, 2000 at around 10am.
The fire department was contacted in Houston Texas.
And the caller told them that they had seen some smoke coming from a remote area in Baytown.
Located just outside Houston Texas.
The call was disregarded as just burning leaf and not really looked into any further.
(09:43):
So.
First mistake.
Nevertheless it was about 7 hours later that evening that police were contacted again by someone else.
They were off roading and at about 5pm they saw a car in that same remote area that the first call was about.
(10:05):
Like same area.
Um yeah same area that the first call had come from.
Okay.
Wait okay so you said people off roading.
Yep.
Called in the fire department 7 hours later.
Uh huh at 5pm.
About a car that was burnt.
Yeah they found a car while they were off roading.
(10:28):
And it just so happened to be in that same area.
Same area.
That the leaf was burning.
Yeah but it's a leaf right?
It doesn't seem.
One singular leaf.
I mean to be able to even see like a fire from like a distance.
Like something more than a leaf is burning.
So for them to just be like dismiss it and just be like it's a leaf.
(10:53):
It's kind of crazy to me.
So they discovered that car called the police around 5pm.
Okay.
When the police arrived to that area it was protected by a gate and some dense trees.
But they did find the car that the caller had reported.
It was completely engulfed in flame.
The fire roared so viciously that it consumed the entire car and the surrounding trees.
(11:19):
So like that's a big fire.
But you know again it's just a leaf.
No that's like a really hot fire.
Yeah.
For it to like burn the entire car and like trees around it.
Yeah it's a big one too.
It's hot and it's big.
So you would think it would set off more alarms before like the 7 hour mark.
(11:42):
But I guess because it was surrounded by all of these trees that maybe it was suppressed a little bit.
More than what we would expect you know.
The heat was so intense it completely melted the interior of the car.
The tires, the windows, and the body that was found inside was almost burnt to ash.
(12:06):
Holy shit and the windows.
Yeah.
So then again it has to be like an extremely hot fire for it to burn all of that.
I don't know if you know how hot you have to burn bones at.
But it's not.
You can't just throw it in a fire pit and they're gonna disappear.
You have to burn them.
Like the fact that they said almost to the point of ash.
(12:31):
That's a hot fucking fire.
And for it to melt like glass to like nothing is crazy.
Yeah so we're not just looking at a normal ass fire.
So I'm assuming that they probably used something to accelerate the heat or something?
Yeah that's exactly what I was gonna say.
Like it's not gonna just be a normal accelerant.
(12:55):
We're talking about something more than just burning gas you know.
Like you said.
It wasn't just dump gasoline like you see on the movies you know.
And throw a match and just expect it to go up.
It was like I don't know what kind of accelerant you use for that.
Something hotter than gasoline.
(13:18):
While investigators quickly worked to identify the victim,
they were able to focus on figuring out what make the vehicle was.
And within a few hours the police were able to identify it as the Chevrolet.
Or as a Chevrolet.
Not the Chevrolet.
The Chevrolet.
The Chevrolet.
(13:39):
Sounds so official.
Chevrolet.
Chevrolet if you're nasty.
So they were able to identify it as a Chevrolet.
And it belonged to Mary Lou Morris.
Who had been reported missing by her husband earlier that day.
Mary and her husband Jay were used to communicating regularly throughout the day.
(14:02):
And when 4pm rolled around and he had not heard a word from Mary that day,
Jay thought it was a little strange and he decided to call the Chase Bank where she worked in to check on her.
I feel like that's normal.
When the person on the other end of the phone told Jay that Mary had never made it into work that morning or that day,
(14:27):
in fact Jay immediately knew something was wrong.
Because Mary wasn't someone that just skipped out on work.
And if she was it wasn't something that she wouldn't tell Jay.
They were in communication.
Especially if she like left to work that morning without saying anything.
(14:48):
It's like, yeah, it's immediately throwing up alarms for Jay.
This was very out of character for her and like we said, she wouldn't have done it without letting him know.
So Jay called the police and reported his wife Mary Morris missing.
So Jay retraced his steps that morning and Mary's steps and started out normal enough.
(15:11):
It was a normal, ordinary morning.
Nothing happened that he could really remember that was out of the ordinary.
And Mary Henderson Morris and Jay had been married about five years before the day she went missing.
On the morning of October 12, 2000, Mary Lou Henderson Morris left her Rach...
(15:33):
Rach...
What the fuck?
Rach, what the fuck?
Bitch, what the fuck?
Her Rach.
Her Rach.
This ain't Texas. Ain't no Hold'em.
Mary Henderson Morris and Jay had been married about five years before the day she went missing.
(15:56):
And on the morning of October 12, 2000, Mary Lou Henderson Morris left her ranch in Baytown a little earlier than she did most days.
She was ready and out the door at around 6 a.m. that morning.
She wanted to get a head start on some work she had at the Chase Bank that she worked at as a loan officer.
(16:19):
She was a long-time employee and worked there about 15 years.
So even more reason why she wouldn't just like...
Ditch.
...not show up, you know? Like had a character for sure.
Unless she was just sick of it that day.
I'm sick of it, Grandpa.
Fuckin' leave it.
That's too damn bad.
(16:40):
But yeah, that's very out of character for someone that works that long.
And especially if she obviously hasn't done it before or whatever.
Something's off.
As a manager too, there are certain employees that wouldn't really raise alarms if they didn't call or didn't show up to work.
And there are other employees that if they're not there 15 minutes early or they're not there before I get there, I'm immediately like something happened.
(17:09):
You know what I mean?
So it also just depends on the character of the person, but clearly we knew that wasn't her character.
And you said that Jay had to call the bank? The bank didn't call?
Yes.
Okay.
I'm gonna not say anything because you gave the camera a look, so I think...okay, I'll just listen.
(17:32):
Okay.
So Jay walked her...walked Mary to her Chevrolet Lumina that morning.
So that's what she drove.
And he did that every morning.
And even though it was earlier, he still got up...got his ass out of bed and walked her to her car that morning.
Sleigh king.
(17:53):
Yes.
A real king.
He watched as she pulled out of the driveway and turned onto the main road in the direction of the gas station she typically frequented.
So this gas station was not in the same direction as her work.
It was in the opposite direction.
So that's how he knew it was the gas station and not work she was going through.
(18:16):
Jay never thought as her car faded from view that it would be the last time he talked to Mary. But it was. Stop. I know.
That makes me so sad.
I know. Isn't that horrible?
Just to think about like, aw, that's like the last time you can ever like...
Yeah.
But it's like so like...also like not heartwarming, but it's so cute that like despite it being like super early that he got up and still didn't.
(18:44):
Because could you imagine if that morning he was just like, it's too early. I'm not going to get out.
Do it yourself.
You know?
Yeah. He would have really regretted that.
Yeah. So sleigh king. We love that for you, Jay. Good job.
Good job, Jay.
Mm-hmm. Sleigh king.
So like I said, typically the two would communicate throughout the day while she was at work.
(19:06):
And around noon, phone logs show that Jay called his wife's cell phone and he actually got her voicemail. So he did try and call her.
And then he didn't really think much of that first call. Maybe she got busy in a meeting or caught up with a client or something and was busy.
Mm-hmm. Well.
And he would call her back.
Too. Like it probably wouldn't seem too much out of the ordinary because she left early to catch up on some work before the day began. So yeah, maybe it's just like maybe she's just really busy because she went there early.
(19:37):
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, he didn't think much of it.
Figured she was busy. But around 2 p.m. Mary supervisor called Jay and asked for Mary.
He didn't know or realize at the time that it was her supervisor.
Wait, Jerry called at noon.
Jay called at noon. Yep.
Jerry. Jay. Jay. Jay called at noon.
(20:01):
They said, no, she's not here. Here.
Then 2 p.m. rolls. He called her cell phone and got her voicemail.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
I kind of sworn earlier where it said I did call the work.
Because that was when I said that the police had found the Chevy belonging to Mary and that Mary was reported missing by her husband Jay.
(20:40):
And they were used to communicating when 4 p.m. rolled around 4 p.m. 4 p.m. 4 p.m.
PM of the four.
She said, 4 p.m. Remember that 4 p.m.
4 p.m. is when he called Jay.
And at noon, Jay called.
(21:03):
Okay, so I did a little backtracking and then going back forward.
I see.
Do I need to go back?
No, no, no, no, no. I just remembered you saying that he called the bank.
He called in, checked on her.
They said, no, she's not here.
I'm on track.
He knew something was wrong.
Yes, I'm on track.
(21:24):
He retraced his steps. That's how I got backwards because I was like, Jay retraced his steps from that morning.
And that's how we got back to noon.
The bank called Jay.
The bank called Jay.
They called him and they said, no, this was at 2 p.m.
(21:46):
So Mary supervisor called Jay, asked for Mary.
He didn't know or realize that it was Mary supervisor.
So when they asked for Mary, he just simply said, she was at work.
And they said, OK, and then just hung up.
So they didn't really press any further about, no, she's not at work.
And he didn't really press any further about who is this why you're calling Mary.
(22:10):
They both were just kind of like, OK, you know, and ended it there.
So that's why neither of them really realized, I suppose.
Which is like, I mean, I can see like if they just called them and was like, where's Mary?
Can I talk to her? And you think she's not here. And that was it.
(22:31):
Yeah. On his end, I could see like not really asking any questions because whatever.
But on their end, yeah, if someone was like, no, they're at work.
I'm like, wait, this is work. She's not here unless they're like, well, maybe she doing some sneaky, linky.
I'm not going to I'm not going to, you know, say anything.
(22:53):
So they just said, got it. Roger Roger hung up.
So that's kind of where the miscommunication started.
I think it's an easy thing to start.
I don't think I don't know if I would if I called someone's house that like I thought was a no call, no show.
(23:20):
My husband was like, oh, she's at work. I would just kind of be like, you know, and was like hung up.
I probably wouldn't impress. Yeah.
I guess like probably in the moment you want it. But looking back, it's so easy for us to be like, why didn't you do this?
Why did you do this? Exactly. Yeah.
He didn't think much of it.
(23:41):
At around four p.m. is when Jay again called the chase chase chase chase chase chase chase to find out that Mary had never made it in that day.
Mary had actually forgotten her cell phone at home that day.
Oh, boy. I called her.
(24:04):
I was at home. Yeah. I'm silent. So he then started to get even more panicked when he found it and was like, what if she had gotten into an accident on the way to work?
And he had no idea what if she was stranded somewhere and couldn't call?
And within a few hours of the police arriving at the scene, they were able to identify the car as Mary Morris Chevrolet.
(24:27):
So this is where it all ties back in.
The reason it took even hours for them to figure it out was due to the fact that it was so badly burned.
The tires, the interior and the engine had all started melting and the engine and the engine.
Like that's fucking hot. Yeah.
All right.
(24:50):
Inside the car, in the passenger seat where human remains in the passenger seat, in the passenger seat, not the driver's seat.
OK. Yeah. Noted.
So it's not her doing it.
Obviously, I don't know why you would choose that method to set yourself on fire, but you're not.
But obviously that kind of raises questions like, was she even alive when it got set on fire?
(25:17):
To be taken to there to be set on fire or what?
You know what I mean? Like huge questions are raised from that.
So, yeah, her human remains were found in the car and according to police, they were so badly burned, they could only be identified through dental records.
And three days after the car was found, the remains were positively identified as 48 year old Mary Morris.
(25:44):
Isn't that so crazy that you can like identify people through their dental records?
Yeah. And when her bones are burned to ash or her body's almost burned to ash, the teeth.
Yeah, that's crazy.
What the fuck? What the flip?
Yeah, it's absolutely insane.
(26:05):
OK, this is so like on topic, but off topic.
Yeah. What about people with dentures?
All those things are melting.
Yeah, I know. I know they're melting, but then you can't if someone has no teeth.
And you'd have to like do bone fragments if possible.
(26:26):
Yeah.
Sometimes you can get little pieces that are able to match the DNA, but it's not a great method, you know?
DNA is never a great method.
Even as refined as the technology is, it's kind of scary how much of it is an estimated guess.
(26:51):
Just kind of scary.
Yeah, RIP.
And that brings us to our first smoke break.
This smoke break is brought to you by...
Bread.
So, we at least worked to figure out exactly what happened to Mary.
(27:21):
And maybe most importantly, why this happened to her.
Because...
What the fuck?
Who just burns a body?
Yeah.
And it didn't seem like she was doing anything crazy unless they were trying to jack a car at the gas station.
(27:42):
But honestly, there wasn't a lot of information regarding what Mary did that morning when she left home since she never made it to work.
Jay said that he assumed based on the direction that she was heading, she was going to the gas station.
The attendant at the gas station did say that he thought someone came in that morning fitting her description, but he wasn't positive that it was her.
(28:11):
Shar.
But unfortunately, by the time the police wanted to check the security footage, the tapes had already been taped back over.
But is that like a normal thing with recorders and surveillance cameras that just tapes over?
Especially the old ones and especially at gas stations like that.
(28:32):
And it'll be like seven days and it'll re-record.
Why did they go back days later?
I don't know if it was days later.
It just said that by the time they had gone back, it wasn't there anymore.
So they waited either too long or maybe it didn't even save longer than 24 hours or something.
(28:55):
I don't know.
Now who did that?
I don't know.
I'm sure it's not that way anymore.
I would hope not.
I bet some places.
What year was that?
2000.
A while ago.
Over 24 years ago.
(29:16):
No.
Yes.
Simply no.
Simply cannot.
Yeah, 24 years ago.
Yeah.
So.
That's plausible.
But still, who designed that system?
I don't know.
Flawed.
It is flawed.
It's like the people, we have a safe at work that we had to completely destroy to get the money out of because the safe only has a certain number of opens.
(29:45):
And this was a business that had the safe.
What the heck?
You could only have it like a million times you could open a safe.
And after that it completely locked you out.
Couldn't get back into it.
What the heck?
I know.
Huh.
Like who the hell?
Who the hell?
And it's all for money.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
I know.
(30:06):
Unfortunately, like I said, by the time that they came back, the tapes had been taped back over and police had a theory that maybe someone approached them.
Maybe someone approached her at the gas station and they tried to rob her or carjack her and ended up just taking her with them.
Which they couldn't really prove because the cameras, you know.
(30:27):
But also you would think if they were trying to just say carjack, why did they set it on fire?
I mean after they were done with the use of it, but then why keep her?
Exactly.
And my next line exactly was, it's hard to believe that this was a carjacking at all when the person responsible had burned the car and a robbery seemed unlikely.
(30:49):
Yeah.
So right on the same track there, girl.
Yeah.
It just seems odd.
Not it.
Yeah.
It doesn't seem like that's the reason.
Yeah.
A normal, plausible reason I would say.
Yeah.
I mean it could be, I've never been in that situation so who's to say that you would make a bad decision like that if that was the end goal.
(31:15):
But like, did you get anything out of it?
It doesn't seem like it.
A few of Mary's belongings were missing.
Mary's wedding ring was missing but she still had a couple diamond jewelry pieces on her.
So like necklaces and earrings.
But her wedding ring was missing.
Her purse had been taken but her credit cards were never used.
(31:38):
Hmm.
And if this were a robbery, why did they leave behind the other diamond jewelry she had on and just take the wedding ring?
Like.
Yeah.
A wedding ring is a very particular piece of, I don't want to say a trophy that a killer would take but usually like it's that, a trophy.
(32:00):
So.
Hmm.
So you're saying this is a serial killer or someone who is specifically going for someone that wants that trophy because A, it was like a hit attack or B, it was a hate thing.
Yeah.
Or like a jealousy.
(32:21):
Yeah.
Either way.
You said a hit attack, I was kind of like thinking this in my head before you said that but you said they took her wallet and stuff but never used their card.
If it was a hit man, maybe they needed like her ID as like proof that like they got her.
(32:42):
Yeah.
Which is fucked.
Mind blown right now.
I know.
There were no fingerprints, no bullet casings, nothing.
And whoever did this clearly wanted to cover their tracks so they did a good job of it honestly.
According to Houston Sheriff Detective Robert Tonnery, whoever did this took a great deal of time to seclude her in that area.
(33:08):
And someone went into, went to the trouble to make sure that there was absolutely no evidence left behind.
Because then like, okay I want to bring it back to like the hit theory.
Yeah.
Because, I mean maybe someone just woke up that day and was like, I'm going to do this heinous act and like just find some random person and light their car on fire.
(33:31):
Like I assume this person had to have the materials with them in order to start a fire and to like set it on fire.
Yeah.
And if our theory is correct with getting them using a different like accelerator to make the fire even more hot, then they would have had to be prepared with that material as well.
(33:53):
So it seems pretty unlikely that it was just like a random thing.
I completely agree.
Yeah.
Yeah it seems very unlikely that it was just, oh I'm going to take your car and whatever you have on you.
Yeah.
That's not sitting right with me for sure.
So why, who, what, how did this happen?
(34:17):
You know, that's not what I have written down but who did this? Who could have done this to Mary?
Mary was a 48 year old mother and grandmother and she seemed very wholesome.
Marilyn, her daughter, described her mother as sweet and hardworking and a non-confrontational person.
(34:38):
She never argued with anyone or even with Jay and when her and Jay ended up having disagreements or didn't see eye to eye on something, she would never want to raise her voice.
She would just come at it very calm, very collected, very peaceful.
Not someone that you would immediately expect someone to pick out to carry something out like this.
(35:01):
Well we kind of mentioned that last week as well.
It always seems like the most genuine, kind hearted people always have, not always but seems like a majority of the time.
Like the good people always get targeted.
Sucks.
And sometimes grandma, come on.
People are cruel.
Grandma's grandma did that bad.
(35:24):
I'll get into this later when we get into theories but let me just keep going.
So she would never even raise her voice. She was not the type of person anyone would really expect to be a target of such a horrible end.
And police started to look into Mary's life.
Did she have any enemies or anyone that would have one if her dead?
(35:45):
And if so, why? You know?
But they kept coming up with absolutely nothing.
Time after time again, they're not finding anything, any plausible reasons as to why.
Does it talk about anything with Jay?
Yes.
Okay, I'll shut up.
Her and Jay seemed to have a fine marriage, according to police and Jay.
(36:08):
And Jay actually had an alibi for that day.
He had traveled, uh, traveled.
Traveled.
Traveled.
He had traveled a few towns over to talk to someone about buying a horse.
Because Texas, you know?
Texas thangs.
Texas thangs.
Interestingly enough, however, the direction Jay would have traveled to go to that town would have brought him right past Mary's burning car, which he told police he did not see when he was driving.
(36:40):
So maybe the theory of like the fire department just like waving it off as a leaps means like the fire wasn't that visible from that end of town.
So maybe it is possible that Jay didn't really see it if it was just dismissed as leaps earlier.
It's possible.
Very possible.
They said it was a very dense tree area.
(37:04):
So, could have covered it up.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's crazy.
To think that nobody would have seen it or.
Well, someone did see it.
Yeah.
He wouldn't have seen it, I should say.
Yeah.
And if you're not really looking for it, you know, maybe he could have just been like zoned out like.
Yeah.
Driving, just looking ahead, not really looking around his surroundings since.
(37:29):
I mean, it's probably a typical road that he would drive on close to home anyway.
Right.
Yeah.
And in theory, he would have passed Mary's car like right around the time the initial call was made.
So maybe the smoke that was coming from the forest wasn't as big as like after effects.
(37:51):
Yeah.
Burned the car, you know.
Jay was ultimately cleared almost immediately by police and they ruled that no one else in her life was a suspect.
And the case started going cold fast after that.
Mary, Mary, Mary Henderson, which is Mary, Marilyn, who is Mary Henderson, Morris's daughter.
(38:15):
Sorry.
There's a lot of tongue twister.
Remembers being frustrated with how the investigation into her mother's death went.
And she did not have much of a relationship with Jay at all.
Her mother had married him when she was an adult and out of the house, so she didn't really know him very well.
(38:37):
And after her mother's death, they did not keep in touch.
She kind of lost both her mother and what could have been her stepfather.
Yeah.
All in one swoop.
Marilyn was shocked to learn that within a few months, Jay had already married a Russian woman that she believed was a mail order bride.
(38:58):
Now it wasn't confirmed, but what she believed.
I don't know what gave her that impression, maybe that it was just so.
I smell cookies.
Have you been making them already?
I think so.
Do you guys smell that?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, brother.
And that's our second smoke break.
And this smoked break is brought to you by Chocolate Chip Cookies.
(39:22):
And we're back from our smoke break.
Good job, Brad.
And oh, wait, that was chocolate chip cookie time.
Yeah, it was fucking delicious.
Just so you know, the dab hit, the cookie hit.
We're ready to finish this episode.
(39:43):
So where we left off was Marilyn, Mary's daughter, was shocked to learn that within a few months of her mother's death, Jay had already married another woman, a Russian woman that she had believed to be a mail order bride.
There's no evidence of this, but like I said, she presumed.
(40:07):
Which is like so crazy, too, because like let's say Jay is like completely innocent.
You would think like five months after like losing your spouse would be so quick.
Like, how do you even like graven get over it and like heal in time to love someone else?
You know, five months after a death of a spouse is crazy business.
(40:32):
It really is. I don't even and to get married.
Exactly. Married like a whole marriage.
Psycho, psychotic.
Yeah, I know. That's that's wild business.
Yeah. Marilyn was also upset that the police did not ask more questions about what happened the day before Mary was murdered.
(40:57):
So they didn't really or at least they didn't share that they asked Jay any information they could have.
But it wasn't brought to Marilyn's attention that they had done that, you know, and she was upset.
She believed that they had blindly believed Jay's story and that he had watched her get into her car and drive off that morning.
(41:19):
But that if she had been killed before that morning, excuse me, and put into her car and then maybe driven to a remote location.
So, I mean, like we said, she was found in the passenger seat.
So like. OK. So in theory, though, if that was the case and let's say people did think it was Jay and he had already killed her before
(41:48):
and then dropped her off, that means he would have to hike all the way back in order to get home to go look at the horses on the way.
You know, like the timeline just unless like you had another car up there or something like the timeline just doesn't add up.
Yeah, you're right. For it to be him unless. Yeah, no, for me, it just doesn't add up.
(42:12):
Yeah, no, I agree. It's a little rushed. Yeah, that was him to have done it.
Because I assume it was a little bit of a distance from their house.
So that means he would have to walk all the way home. Yeah. Then.
Yeah, and then drive to go look at the houses.
(42:36):
And just like, yeah, does it doesn't add up for me. I agree.
I think it is weird that he remarried within five months, but I don't feel like he's really suspicious. Yeah. In my mind right now.
OK. Yeah, I don't know how to feel about Jay. I just feel like he's maybe a dick.
(42:57):
But then we have to remember he walks her to her car every morning. Well, that's what he says. True.
You know, he didn't live with anybody else. True. But I'm not I don't want to disregard what he did either.
All right. So, you know, Marilyn's mad about the way it was handled.
And she said that the car should have been searched a little bit more, but it wasn't.
(43:24):
And there probably was more evidence that they could find. But before police were able to get to the car and to like research it for evidence, Jason did the scrap yard to get destroyed.
How did he get the car back? Wouldn't that be police property at that point?
(43:47):
Like it becomes an active crime scene.
How did he get it back? I have no idea. It isn't everything he just says that he had it.
Yeah, I don't know how he got the car, but he got the car and he had it destroyed before they could relook at it.
So, I don't know how much they could find, how badly destroyed it was.
(44:10):
But still, it could still be like an active crime scene, even if they like initially didn't find evidence or things.
There is evidence there to give it to like potentially a suspect.
Like, I'm sure they ruled him out for the most part, but there's always a chance it still could be even if he didn't physically do it.
(44:35):
And for them to give it back to him before anything was even solved is like so crazy to me.
It is crazy. I don't know why people make the decisions they do, but here they are making bad decisions.
Even though the case was already taking over news coverage before Mary's remains were identified,
(45:00):
Marilyn could already feel the investigation on her mother becoming cold with lack of evidence and suspects.
So, she said that there was a lot of traction, a lot of coverage on the news, but ultimately there wasn't anything there.
So, regardless if there was coverage, like...
(45:22):
If you have no evidence, you have no evidence.
Yeah, there's not much you can do about that.
She personally felt that Jay was being flippant and that the police had given up and there was no obvious answer.
Some of the key pieces of evidence, aka the car, had been destroyed.
So, what more can you really look into?
(45:43):
Only three days after Marilyn Henderson Morris was found dead in her car, another Mary Morris would be found dead in her car in the same metro area.
This, of course, added a whole new element to the case.
One that made Marilyn hopeful that they would maybe be able to solve her mother's murder also.
(46:06):
On Monday, October 17th, 2000, the body of Mary McGinnis Morris, another Mary Morris, who had also had short dark brown curly hair, was found dead inside her car in Houston.
And that's just not a coincidence.
I wouldn't think so.
I fucking wouldn't think so.
(46:28):
It almost goes back to like the hit theory again of like, was it a mistake the first time and now they have to like get the actual Mary Morris that they're after.
How crazy is it that they would both live in Houston?
Right.
I mean, Houston's big, but like.
(46:49):
But yeah, same first name, same last name, and same county.
Yeah.
And it's even.
Yeah, no.
No, no, no.
That's weird.
Right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's weird.
That's crazy.
That's why like, I mean, all I have finished, but the hit theory of like they gone wrong, especially if they looked pretty similar.
(47:15):
Yeah, which they said they did.
Does she also drive the same car?
Does not drive the same car.
Oh.
But same name, same look, same area.
Yeah.
You know, close enough, I think.
Close enough to be mistaken.
Oh, yeah.
So Mary McInnis Morris was 39 years old.
(47:38):
She was a nurse nurse practitioner who had been out running errands that day before she was reported missing.
She had administered a flu shot to her friend, Lori Gimmel.
And then she went to the post office and then the grocery store and then a drug store.
So like Walgreens or whatever.
While at the drug store, Mary McInnis Morris called her friend Lori, who she had just given that flu shot to.
(48:06):
Lori said that Mary said to her that there was a man there who was making her feel a little uneasy.
So that's never a good sign.
Lori said that she had said it matter of fact and not necessarily like she was scared, but more just like, hey,
like there's someone here that's kind of making me feel a little uneasy.
(48:28):
She was aware that Mary herself was uncomfortable and that she was going to head home as soon as she was done.
But actually, first, she told Lori that she was going to make one quick stop at work to shut off her computer before she went home.
And, you know, it's the 2000s.
So why do you can't shut off that computer?
(48:51):
So it doesn't take over the world. Exactly.
So that's why she had to run home and not just let it stay over the weekend or whatever.
After 15 minutes after that phone call was made to Lori, Mary McInnis Morris called 911.
(49:12):
So, oh, yeah, she was able to make that call.
But unfortunately, by the time that call ended, Mary was dead.
So I haven't personally heard the phone call, but it is presumed that whoever was on the other end may have heard her murder.
(49:34):
But it doesn't say specifically.
It doesn't say specifically, but it said she was able to connect to 911 and before the call had ended, she was dead.
So it's very likely. Yeah.
Unless the phone got dropped somewhere, you know, you know, I mean, in between.
But Mary didn't make it home that evening.
Her husband called Mary's cell where she to see where she was.
(50:01):
This was about an hour and a half after she made that 911 call.
And then when he didn't get an answer, he called the police to report her missing.
Mary's phone records show about a four minute incoming call from Mike, who's her husband, who had been at the movies with their teenage daughter, Katie, at the time of the murder.
Four minute incoming call. Yeah.
(50:24):
So he didn't talk to her. He didn't talk to her.
But I but he has his alibi of being with the kids at the movie.
Yeah, that one's weird to me because it doesn't bring for four minutes. He didn't leave a four minute message.
(50:55):
It connected. Unless he like called her and went to voicemail on it.
The phone company hung up. No, it didn't go to voicemail at all. It connected. Oh, it can like. Oh, because they can see that on the phone record. Yeah.
It didn't. It didn't go to voicemail. It wasn't a voicemail.
(51:18):
It was a connected phone call. Interesting, right? Right.
He said he had never reached his wife and just rang and rang and rang and how and however the phone company, he said it just rang and rang and rang.
But however, the phone company insisted that the cell phone was connected, like I said.
(51:40):
Playing devil's advocate here. Maybe he did call.
It they answered and it was just like nothing. And so maybe he was just like, yeah, and hung up.
Yeah, no, I'm not saying it's weird.
(52:02):
I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. I like it. I'm just also playing the other side.
Yeah, no, it's still weird. Four minutes is a long time. A minute is a long time. Yeah. No, it's definitely weird.
I'm just like if but if he was at his that's why I'm playing like more devil's advocate because I'm like if he was with his kids at the movies.
Yeah, it would be hard to do. Yeah. All of it would be hard.
(52:26):
But yeah, it's weird though that it connected for four minutes. Yeah.
And he was like, no, I didn't talk to her.
I get through Mary was Mary's car was found the next morning by a tow truck driver and she was found inside her car with a single gunshot wound to the head.
(52:47):
She only had one thing missing from her wedding ring wedding ring.
Theory is looking better and better. So
that one was on her. She was just shot. One single shot.
Mary's wedding ring was the only thing missing and it appeared that she had been severely beaten and gagged before being shot in the head.
(53:16):
According to her husband, Mike, Mary McInnis Morris had
been keeping the gun that was used to kill her in her car for about two weeks and for a good reason.
She was afraid of another nurse who worked with her.
Mary who worked with Mary.
(53:37):
I'm sorry. A man named Dwayne Young who made her uncomfortable.
Mary's friend, Lori Gimmel, who we talked about earlier, who was on the phone with her that day that she went missing,
said that Dwayne, quote, complained to her supervisors,
questioned her authority and often seemed agitated by her.
(54:00):
Lori asked Mary at one point if she really thought that he could hurt her and she said, Yes, I do. I think he could even do worse.
Scary.
Things only seem to get worse at work with Dwayne.
And eventually there was a note found in Mary's office that said, quote, death to her, end quote, which.
(54:22):
That's terrifying. What the fuck?
What the fuck? Yeah, no, that's horrifying. I don't like that at all.
That's so ominous considering what ends up happening to her.
So was any of that brought to like HR?
Actually, yes. OK. So, yeah, she found that Mary believed that it was actually from Dwayne and it was written about her.
(54:47):
Obviously, it was found in her office on her desk.
She found things out of place on her desk.
Pictures turned to face around directions.
And on Dwayne's desk, there was words written death to her, which she assumed also was about her.
Like, obviously, if you find one in your office and another one in his, you're going to assume, especially with him being creepy, too.
(55:12):
Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, it's weird as fuck.
I don't like that. Yeah.
Her husband, Mike, said that after she found the note, she made a phone call to him on her way home and he could tell that she was shaken up about it.
Understandably so. Completely.
She got home and asked him that night if he could provide her with a gun to carry with her so she could have it for protection.
(55:36):
She asked him to go over the handling and the use of the gun.
And when they were finished, she asked him to place the gun under her car under the driver's seat.
So that's where that gun remained until she was ultimately killed with it.
Mary took the note to her supervisors and they advised her not to come into work on Friday the 13th.
(55:58):
When Mary didn't show up to work that day, it was reported that Dwayne started asking where Mary was.
Which.
I'm sorry. Hold on. Hold your horses.
HR said, don't come in tomorrow.
Well, because it was Friday the 13th.
And you know how people are.
(56:19):
Yes. Yes. True.
But they didn't do anything with that information beyond that.
Like, yeah, cool. Send her home. Don't let her come back until you do an investigation.
And like.
What? That's my like that's all it says that they did. Just go home. Don't come tomorrow.
(56:42):
They just advised her not to come in tomorrow.
Yeah.
I know. What?
That's good old HR for you.
They always do such a good job.
Yikes.
That's so mind blowing that that's all like they're like, just don't come in.
(57:04):
Yeah.
So, Lori Gimel again, Mary's friend, reported that Dwayne was banging on windows asking for her.
Asking for Mary.
And then eventually he was so irate that he was escorted out of the building.
Wow. Yeah.
He must have been like really going crazy.
(57:27):
If they're like, yeah, no, you're out of here.
He needs to leave.
So two days later after that happened, Sunday, Mary was dead. Two days later.
And when was the other Mary killed again?
Mary, the first Mary was killed October 12th.
12th.
(57:48):
13th.
When did the other one? 15th?
Uh huh.
So 12th, 15th.
12th, 15th.
So that would be interesting because they told her not to come in on the 13th.
Which would be the 12th.
(58:11):
The 12th is when she probably found that note.
It was when the other Mary unfortunately had her life taken.
Three days later is when other Mary died.
Uh huh.
Hold on, I try to wrap my brain around this. This is so crazy to me.
(58:35):
Okay, so I need a chalkboard.
Mary died the 12th.
The first Mary died the 12th.
Yeah, the first call came in at 10am. So early.
(58:57):
I'm assuming other Mary found the note that said death to her also on the 12th.
Or earlier that week even.
Yeah, sometime that week.
Because she was able to come home and tell her husband.
He said that she had been carrying that gun for a week before her death.
(59:22):
Yeah, it was only two days in between all of this.
While police had no leads at first, Lori Grimmel remembered another piece of evidence from her phone call with Mary McInnis Morris that morning.
15 minutes before she was shot with the gun she kept in her car, Mary told her, uh, Lori, that she thought she recognized the creepy man following her as someone she had met through Duane Young.
(59:51):
Oh.
Spicy. Yeah.
So through Duane Young you say, Duane had been a problem.
Mary and her husband had actually attended events at his home.
And he had been to theirs.
So it is possible that Mary had met a couple people through him.
(01:00:15):
Yeah.
I don't know why they were all hanging out, but.
So Duane himself had no physical evidence that put him at the scene.
Nothing to actually charge him on.
And the gun in Mary's car only had her and her husband's fingerprints on it.
Which, you know, both of theirs was expected based on the story Mike gave them.
(01:00:40):
So before police looked into who this mysterious creepy man following Mary was, they wanted to look into Mike Morris a little bit more, who was Mary's husband.
But Mike immediately lawyered up right after the murder, making authorities of course wonder if, you know, that's a little suspicious.
(01:01:01):
Making him a little suspicious.
That doesn't bother me.
No, no, like I would say this a million times over, like always lawyer up if you're in that situation.
I'll bring you back to the West Memphis 3 case once again, because I'm here to always bring that case up.
Fucking lawyer up, because you think that they can't just go making bullshit up against you, but they fucking can and they will.
(01:01:28):
And if they find you absolutely any type of like, not the person that they think you are, they're going to fucking charge you and you're going to be in jail for murder.
Yeah.
And not to mention like they, like a lot of places keep you so long while they're interrogating you, where they like, they start to like make you believe things that they're telling you even if it's not true.
(01:01:54):
Right.
No, that doesn't bother me at all.
No, smart to lawyer up.
I don't get suspish.
No, we know it's the best option.
Lawyer up regardless of your situation.
So I'm not going to say that like based off that he's a suspect, you know, we're not going to say that, but police definitely thought so.
(01:02:16):
You know, of course the police are going to think that.
One thing police quickly realized about Mike and Mary Morris was they did not have a perfect marriage like Jay and Mary supposedly had.
The problem seemed to start when the couple moved to Houston actually.
Mike felt that Mary may have been cheating on him.
(01:02:40):
Which brings another element of this interesting story, you know, maybe she had a secret thing with Dwayne.
I don't know if I want to start saying it now or if I like wait a little bit.
(01:03:02):
Yeah, let me let me get a little bit more.
Okay.
Hold on to your thought.
He went so far as to confront her and the person he believed to be in love with her or be her lover.
I'm sorry.
Both of them denied the accusations, however.
According to Mike, though, he chose to believe his wife and he said that things had dramatically improved since then.
(01:03:27):
And at the time of his wife's death, they were nearly best friends again.
Nearly.
Nearly.
I've never described anyone as nearly my best friend.
Yeah, either they are or they're not.
You're not nearly nothing.
Yeah.
Weird as fuck.
(01:03:48):
It describes your relationship with your husband.
Or wife I should say in this case.
But like you're nearly best friends again?
No.
I don't know about that.
I don't like nearly.
Some people, however, say otherwise.
Friends and family say that Mike remained distrustful and resentful and at times he would follow his wife around.
(01:04:12):
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't sound like he let that go.
His accusations may have not, though, been completely baseless.
Stephanie Lohr, who was Mary Morris's sister, said that Mary had confessed to her at one point that she had fallen in love with another man.
The plot begins.
(01:04:36):
I have so much I want to say.
Do you want to say it?
Should I?
It's up to you.
Or should I wait?
It's up to you.
My theory is maybe it will change as the story develops.
What if Dwayne was her secret lover?
That's what I think, too.
(01:04:57):
Yes.
What if they were the two, right?
They liked each other and had an affair with each other and they went over to each other's house at the time where they were on good terms.
Now, what if when J—not J.
Mike.
Mike.
What if when Mike found out about the affair, then Mary cut it off and was like, hey, we can't do this no more.
(01:05:20):
And that's when he became really crazy.
Mm-hmm.
That classic love triangle shit that we love to hear about.
Yes.
What if.
What if.
Anyways.
Stephanie said that she thought in love with another man.
She said that Mary did not want to leave Mike, however, and she was going to try and work things through.
(01:05:45):
But after going to a few different marriage counselors with no improvement, she was thinking about a divorce.
According to Mary's daughter, Katie, the man was questioned, but he was never considered as a suspect.
Hmm.
So I don't know if that would be Duane or not, you know?
(01:06:06):
Yeah.
Mike Morris, however, considered—was considered a suspect almost immediately.
He was asked—he asked for an attorney and refused to take a polygraph test, which I would do both those things, too.
I don't think that's an end all for someone to be suspicious, quote unquote, you know?
Mm-hmm.
(01:06:27):
He also, though, wouldn't let the cops talk to their daughter, Katie, which—
I mean, depending on how old did it say she was?
It didn't say.
Yeah, depending on how old she is.
Yeah.
I mean, you have—you know, why would you let your little kid?
Right.
I agree.
Police, of course, thought that this was suspicious, though, and they had—they had no issue with telling the press that only guilty people ask for attorneys.
(01:06:55):
Wrong.
That's—
They are wrong.
Wrong.
Yeah.
Ask for an attorney.
Mike seemed to be relatively cooperative in other ways, though.
He submitted blood samples, fingerprints, and allowed police access to their home.
There just wasn't enough physical evidence to charge Mike with her murder.
(01:07:16):
Yeah.
I don't think they had anything to go off with that.
Especially, like, I mean, if it was, like, standalone cases, right, then maybe you can, like, look into the husband a little bit more and be like, maybe it was the husband just based off of the fact of, like, the wedding ring being missing or other stuff.
I get, though.
(01:07:37):
But for it to be two Mary Morris's, it's like, okay, it's not going to be the husband for both or one, right?
Even a thing.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it actually being the husband who physically did it?
Right.
Right.
Police figured it was maybe a carjacking or a robbery gone wrong again, and even though the car was not jacked, and the only thing missing from Mary was her wedding ring.
(01:08:06):
Like, I don't know why they would still suspect that.
Yeah.
That's odd to me, but it was their assumption at first.
Her ring actually did not stay missing for long, however.
Months after the murder, one of Mary's friends noticed her daughter, Katie, was wearing the ring, and Mike just simply told police that she didn't wear it to work that day.
(01:08:31):
Huh.
She didn't wear it out when she was murdered, and they found it, which...
Could be possible, but also weird.
I'm not wearing mine currently, so...
Yeah.
It's very possible.
There are plenty of rumors and theories surrounding both of these cases that we could just go into some, but they're just mostly people's educated guess, some better than others, but ultimately they're all just guesses.
(01:08:58):
Mary McGinnis Morris' case had more suspects, but eventually police ruled that, just like Mike Henderson Morris, there was just not enough evidence to charge anyone for her murders.
Or their murders, for that matter.
Just like the case of Mary Henderson Morris, the murder of Mary McGinnis Morris went cold.
(01:09:22):
Both of them remain unsolved to this day, unfortunately.
Both cases were initially high profile because of their shocking coincidences, but neither family nor victims have had justice for this unwanted murder.
Both were full of life, love, and both deserve to live and deserve to see justice.
(01:09:45):
So, what are your thoughts on the case?
I mean...
I know we discussed that we thought maybe love triangle...
I think maybe love triangle go wrong, maybe even the element of a hitman.
I think it could be two reasons.
(01:10:06):
I think both are a hitman theory.
I think number one might be the Duane situation where they were in love.
She cut it off, he got upset, put out a hit on her.
Or the second theory being of which her husband put out the hit because they were having marriage problems, she cheated on him, whatever.
(01:10:32):
It could be both.
But, I don't know.
Either way, fuck.
Yeah.
And if it's not either of those, then it's the most uncanny coincidence that has ever happened.
I don't think it is.
I really don't.
Not with both wedding rings, miss. There's no fucking way.
(01:10:54):
No.
There's no fucking way.
There's no way.
I do think it's 100% the hitman theory.
Of either way, but I'm more leaning towards the hitman from her coworker.
Or from her lover.
Mmhmm.
Just simply based on the fact that there was a note in their offices in the freakout after.
(01:11:21):
And the fact that she said she might have recognized that guy in the store from doing whatever.
I'm leaning more towards that side.
Yeah.
Because, like, yeah, her husband might have a little suspicious whatever.
But he also had a lullaby of being with his daughter.
Well, not lullaby.
(01:11:43):
He had an alibi of where he was.
He did.
So, yeah.
Coworker.
Yeah.
I'm gonna take a breath.
Let us know what you guys think.
Because obviously this is still an unsolved case.
Let's be respectful in the comments if you do have any theories.
(01:12:08):
But we would like to know what you guys think.
Because any kind of publicity is good for these kind of cases, honestly.
Bringing traction to cold cases in respectful manners are always good for the cases.
So, yeah.
And then, yeah.
Let's do it.
Just for us, too, like, we love reading the comments.
(01:12:29):
So, if, again, throughout the season, well, that was a struggle.
Throughout the season, if you do have theories that's, like, completely different from ours,
please let us know because we do enjoy reading those.
And we will read them.
But, yeah.
Yeah.
Let us know what you think.
And until next time, stay high.
(01:12:50):
Stay safe.
Thank you for listening.
Hey, guys.
Let us know what you think down below in the comments.
But, as always, be respectful and kind as these are serious cases that have yet to be solved.
If you enjoyed the show, please like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell
so you can know when we drop our next episode.
Happy 420. I'm Kai and I'm Queen Reefer and you're watching Stone Cold Murder.
(00:05):
Just a PSA, if you have any information that can help solve a crime, go to
Crimestoppers.com to report any information anonymously. This podcast contains material that might not be suitable for all
audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
Thanks for tuning in for season 3, episode 2. How are you today?
(00:28):
I'm doing good. How are you?
Doing good.
Good.
Yeah, so today we have an insane case. I've already dabbed so we don't have to cut to that.
First, I want to tell you some exciting news that I have.
Who?
Yeah, just what I got.
What did you get?
(00:49):
Corn shoes.
Are you wearing them?
No, you don't even have shoes.
No, I'm poor because of the corn shoes.
But you still have other shoes.
I do sell them all.
To get the corn shoes.
Okay, do you have a picture of the corn?
Of the corn. Of my corn.
(01:10):
You know what, corn is 30 years old. It happens to be the same age as me.
They were established in 1994. I happened to be born in 1994.
(01:37):
So they're doing 30 years of corn and they released...
What?
It just sounds so funny.
Corn, corn, corn.
30 years of corn.
They released a line with Adidas because corn has been a big supporter of Adidas since 1994 basically.
And they have a whole corn line.
(01:58):
I've been trying to get corn shoes for three different releases now.
Oh, I think I've seen them before but I want to see them. I think you showed me the last time they were supposed to come out.
And then they didn't. Or you didn't get them or something.
No, I didn't and I cried.
Aw.
I literally lost my shit because I wanted them so bad. But these ones are cooler.
(02:20):
Pussy.
I will have to admit.
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I kid, I kid.
I guess I'm just too tough to cry.
My favorite.
Did you just cry about corn shoes?
Look at these motherfuckers. They say corn on them.
They're not super special.
(02:42):
But they are me.
Don't make fun of them please.
No, they're cute.
I was just...the picture you showed me was like...
No, they're cute.
No, the picture you showed me was like really blurry.
So I couldn't really see it.
I'm trying to find a better picture.
Okay, here we go.
No, they're cute.
(03:04):
You know what they should? Add like signatures to it.
I think they have their logo and the sole of it.
Oh, cute.
So sorry about the corn distraction.
I'm just excited about that.
It's corn.
It's corn.
I love corn.
I'm glad you got them.
I know.
When do they come in?
Wednesday.
Woo.
(03:25):
I accidentally got two pairs so I have two pairs of corn shoes.
Two pairs.
I'm going to sell the other pair probably.
Yeah.
For corn money.
For next time corn comes.
So we can eat corn and see corn.
With my corn shoes.
Take a shot for every time you see corn.
(03:48):
What?
I just want to hear your best corn impression.
Boom bop da bee da bee da bee bop.
Boom da boom bop ba dee da.
Boom da boom bop ba dee da.
Go boom.
So do you have any exciting corn shoes news?
Shoes shoes shoes.
I don't have corn shoes.
No.
(04:10):
Looks like that's a cool one.
Yeah, I know.
Always has been.
Whatever.
No, I don't have no corn shoes.
Do you have any cool news?
I don't know if it sounded like I said corn shoes.
That's what I thought you said.
I thought you said so do you have any corn shoes?
I was like no.
(04:32):
Not really.
Okay.
I'm just excited for my gym.
I'm building.
Or we're building.
And the sauna.
The sauna.
The sauna.
Can't wait to sit in there at night.
Nice and toasty.
Oh yeah, brother.
Especially for the snow.
Oh yeah.
Hell yeah, brother.
Yeah.
(04:53):
Well are you ready to start this one?
Yes.
Okay.
Well this case is a case of mistaken identity.
Dun dun dun dun.
I already said that I have taken my dab.
So you guys need to get your dabs ready.
Or bowls or edibles perhaps.
(05:14):
Whatever you.
Or if you don't partake that's fine too.
Get some snacks ready and get ready to get into the case.
She looks soft.
Can I touch her?
Okay.
Distracted.
Squirrel.
Oh.
Yes.
(05:36):
Too soon.
RIP peanut.
The squirrel.
If you guys don't know about peanut the squirrel.
Don't go look it up.
You'll cry.
Our nation committed an atrocity recently.
Justice for peanut and Fred.
(05:57):
And Fred yeah the raccoon.
Like what the fuck?
Yeah.
Have you guys heard about this man Danny?
No?
Alright let me tell you this really quick.
So this man has a squirrel that he rescued from a baby.
He's had this squirrel seven years.
He also owns a non-profit animal rescue for animals that cannot be rehabilitated.
(06:21):
Some can but most of them cannot.
So he has a squirrel that can't be rehabilitated in a raccoon that lives with him.
And they're like kind of the forefront of his non-profit.
How he makes money to support his non-profit.
And someone made a complaint about this squirrel on TikTok that he was like mistreating it.
(06:44):
Because it was a wild animal that's inside.
But they didn't know that it's something that can't be released back into the wild.
The DEA came into his house.
Raided his house like he had fucking drugs.
Got a search warrant.
Arrested him.
Arrested this man.
Took the squirrel and the fucking raccoon.
And euthanized them both.
(07:07):
Why was the DEA involved?
That's what I said.
Well I think whoever called it in did one of those like SWAT things.
You know what I mean?
Like one of those.
And he got in trouble and they killed the squirrel and the raccoon.
(07:28):
It was horrible.
They were...
It makes me so sad.
Yeah and now they don't even know how to make money for their non-profit.
Because he was like a train squirrel that did all these tricks and stuff.
Anyways.
RIP Peanut.
Yeah.
So sad.
He was so cute too.
Alright.
Let's get off the squirrel tangent now.
(07:52):
We'll talk about another case.
Equally as fucked up.
Actually probably more fucked up.
Because this is a human case.
Not a squirrel.
So how often do you run into someone with the same name as you?
I've only met one other person with the same name.
But not last name.
(08:13):
Just first name.
Same.
I have a pretty unique name.
I don't come across.
At least many people my age with my same name.
It's a lot of younger people.
And well my name is a disease.
What's the disease?
So.
Actually maybe you don't want to say it on here.
(08:35):
If you don't want your first name on.
Addison's disease.
It's a butt disease.
Aww.
I'm sorry.
What kind of butt disease may it be?
Oh actually I haven't researched it.
I just know it's a butt disease.
(08:59):
I'm sorry for your disease.
So hence why I'm queen reefer sitting here today.
Queen queen reefer.
That too.
As rare as it may seem.
Two women living in Houston Texas.
Both named Mary Lou Morris.
Were about to find themselves with more than just similar names.
(09:21):
Uh oh.
Our story starts out on October 12th, 2000 at around 10am.
The fire department was contacted in Houston Texas.
And the caller told them that they had seen some smoke coming from a remote area in Baytown.
Located just outside Houston Texas.
The call was disregarded as just burning leaf and not really looked into any further.
(09:43):
So.
First mistake.
Nevertheless it was about 7 hours later that evening that police were contacted again by someone else.
They were off roading and at about 5pm they saw a car in that same remote area that the first call was about.
(10:05):
Like same area.
Um yeah same area that the first call had come from.
Okay.
Wait okay so you said people off roading.
Yep.
Called in the fire department 7 hours later.
Uh huh at 5pm.
About a car that was burnt.
Yeah they found a car while they were off roading.
(10:28):
And it just so happened to be in that same area.
Same area.
That the leaf was burning.
Yeah but it's a leaf right?
It doesn't seem.
One singular leaf.
I mean to be able to even see like a fire from like a distance.
Like something more than a leaf is burning.
So for them to just be like dismiss it and just be like it's a leaf.
(10:53):
It's kind of crazy to me.
So they discovered that car called the police around 5pm.
Okay.
When the police arrived to that area it was protected by a gate and some dense trees.
But they did find the car that the caller had reported.
It was completely engulfed in flame.
The fire roared so viciously that it consumed the entire car and the surrounding trees.
(11:19):
So like that's a big fire.
But you know again it's just a leaf.
No that's like a really hot fire.
Yeah.
For it to like burn the entire car and like trees around it.
Yeah it's a big one too.
It's hot and it's big.
So you would think it would set off more alarms before like the 7 hour mark.
(11:42):
But I guess because it was surrounded by all of these trees that maybe it was suppressed a little bit.
More than what we would expect you know.
The heat was so intense it completely melted the interior of the car.
The tires, the windows, and the body that was found inside was almost burnt to ash.
(12:06):
Holy shit and the windows.
Yeah.
So then again it has to be like an extremely hot fire for it to burn all of that.
I don't know if you know how hot you have to burn bones at.
But it's not.
You can't just throw it in a fire pit and they're gonna disappear.
You have to burn them.
Like the fact that they said almost to the point of ash.
(12:31):
That's a hot fucking fire.
And for it to melt like glass to like nothing is crazy.
Yeah so we're not just looking at a normal ass fire.
So I'm assuming that they probably used something to accelerate the heat or something?
Yeah that's exactly what I was gonna say.
Like it's not gonna just be a normal accelerant.
(12:55):
We're talking about something more than just burning gas you know.
Like you said.
It wasn't just dump gasoline like you see on the movies you know.
And throw a match and just expect it to go up.
It was like I don't know what kind of accelerant you use for that.
Something hotter than gasoline.
(13:18):
While investigators quickly worked to identify the victim,
they were able to focus on figuring out what make the vehicle was.
And within a few hours the police were able to identify it as the Chevrolet.
Or as a Chevrolet.
Not the Chevrolet.
The Chevrolet.
The Chevrolet.
(13:39):
Sounds so official.
Chevrolet.
Chevrolet if you're nasty.
So they were able to identify it as a Chevrolet.
And it belonged to Mary Lou Morris.
Who had been reported missing by her husband earlier that day.
Mary and her husband Jay were used to communicating regularly throughout the day.
(14:02):
And when 4pm rolled around and he had not heard a word from Mary that day,
Jay thought it was a little strange and he decided to call the Chase Bank where she worked in to check on her.
I feel like that's normal.
When the person on the other end of the phone told Jay that Mary had never made it into work that morning or that day,
(14:27):
in fact Jay immediately knew something was wrong.
Because Mary wasn't someone that just skipped out on work.
And if she was it wasn't something that she wouldn't tell Jay.
They were in communication.
Especially if she like left to work that morning without saying anything.
(14:48):
It's like, yeah, it's immediately throwing up alarms for Jay.
This was very out of character for her and like we said, she wouldn't have done it without letting him know.
So Jay called the police and reported his wife Mary Morris missing.
So Jay retraced his steps that morning and Mary's steps and started out normal enough.
(15:11):
It was a normal, ordinary morning.
Nothing happened that he could really remember that was out of the ordinary.
And Mary Henderson Morris and Jay had been married about five years before the day she went missing.
On the morning of October 12, 2000, Mary Lou Henderson Morris left her Rach...
(15:33):
Rach...
What the fuck?
Rach, what the fuck?
Bitch, what the fuck?
Her Rach.
Her Rach.
This ain't Texas. Ain't no Hold'em.
Mary Henderson Morris and Jay had been married about five years before the day she went missing.
(15:56):
And on the morning of October 12, 2000, Mary Lou Henderson Morris left her ranch in Baytown a little earlier than she did most days.
She was ready and out the door at around 6 a.m. that morning.
She wanted to get a head start on some work she had at the Chase Bank that she worked at as a loan officer.
(16:19):
She was a long-time employee and worked there about 15 years.
So even more reason why she wouldn't just like...
Ditch.
...not show up, you know? Like had a character for sure.
Unless she was just sick of it that day.
I'm sick of it, Grandpa.
Fuckin' leave it.
That's too damn bad.
(16:40):
But yeah, that's very out of character for someone that works that long.
And especially if she obviously hasn't done it before or whatever.
Something's off.
As a manager too, there are certain employees that wouldn't really raise alarms if they didn't call or didn't show up to work.
And there are other employees that if they're not there 15 minutes early or they're not there before I get there, I'm immediately like something happened.
(17:09):
You know what I mean?
So it also just depends on the character of the person, but clearly we knew that wasn't her character.
And you said that Jay had to call the bank? The bank didn't call?
Yes.
Okay.
I'm gonna not say anything because you gave the camera a look, so I think...okay, I'll just listen.
(17:32):
Okay.
So Jay walked her...walked Mary to her Chevrolet Lumina that morning.
So that's what she drove.
And he did that every morning.
And even though it was earlier, he still got up...got his ass out of bed and walked her to her car that morning.
Sleigh king.
(17:53):
Yes.
A real king.
He watched as she pulled out of the driveway and turned onto the main road in the direction of the gas station she typically frequented.
So this gas station was not in the same direction as her work.
It was in the opposite direction.
So that's how he knew it was the gas station and not work she was going through.
(18:16):
Jay never thought as her car faded from view that it would be the last time he talked to Mary. But it was. Stop. I know.
That makes me so sad.
I know. Isn't that horrible?
Just to think about like, aw, that's like the last time you can ever like...
Yeah.
But it's like so like...also like not heartwarming, but it's so cute that like despite it being like super early that he got up and still didn't.
(18:44):
Because could you imagine if that morning he was just like, it's too early. I'm not going to get out.
Do it yourself.
You know?
Yeah. He would have really regretted that.
Yeah. So sleigh king. We love that for you, Jay. Good job.
Good job, Jay.
Mm-hmm. Sleigh king.
So like I said, typically the two would communicate throughout the day while she was at work.
(19:06):
And around noon, phone logs show that Jay called his wife's cell phone and he actually got her voicemail. So he did try and call her.
And then he didn't really think much of that first call. Maybe she got busy in a meeting or caught up with a client or something and was busy.
Mm-hmm. Well.
And he would call her back.
Too. Like it probably wouldn't seem too much out of the ordinary because she left early to catch up on some work before the day began. So yeah, maybe it's just like maybe she's just really busy because she went there early.
(19:37):
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, he didn't think much of it.
Figured she was busy. But around 2 p.m. Mary supervisor called Jay and asked for Mary.
He didn't know or realize at the time that it was her supervisor.
Wait, Jerry called at noon.
Jay called at noon. Yep.
Jerry. Jay. Jay. Jay called at noon.
(20:01):
They said, no, she's not here. Here.
Then 2 p.m. rolls. He called her cell phone and got her voicemail.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
I kind of sworn earlier where it said I did call the work.
Because that was when I said that the police had found the Chevy belonging to Mary and that Mary was reported missing by her husband Jay.
(20:40):
And they were used to communicating when 4 p.m. rolled around 4 p.m. 4 p.m. 4 p.m.
PM of the four.
She said, 4 p.m. Remember that 4 p.m.
4 p.m. is when he called Jay.
And at noon, Jay called.
(21:03):
Okay, so I did a little backtracking and then going back forward.
I see.
Do I need to go back?
No, no, no, no, no. I just remembered you saying that he called the bank.
He called in, checked on her.
They said, no, she's not here.
I'm on track.
He knew something was wrong.
Yes, I'm on track.
(21:24):
He retraced his steps. That's how I got backwards because I was like, Jay retraced his steps from that morning.
And that's how we got back to noon.
The bank called Jay.
The bank called Jay.
They called him and they said, no, this was at 2 p.m.
(21:46):
So Mary supervisor called Jay, asked for Mary.
He didn't know or realize that it was Mary supervisor.
So when they asked for Mary, he just simply said, she was at work.
And they said, OK, and then just hung up.
So they didn't really press any further about, no, she's not at work.
And he didn't really press any further about who is this why you're calling Mary.
(22:10):
They both were just kind of like, OK, you know, and ended it there.
So that's why neither of them really realized, I suppose.
Which is like, I mean, I can see like if they just called them and was like, where's Mary?
Can I talk to her? And you think she's not here. And that was it.
(22:31):
Yeah. On his end, I could see like not really asking any questions because whatever.
But on their end, yeah, if someone was like, no, they're at work.
I'm like, wait, this is work. She's not here unless they're like, well, maybe she doing some sneaky, linky.
I'm not going to I'm not going to, you know, say anything.
(22:53):
So they just said, got it. Roger Roger hung up.
So that's kind of where the miscommunication started.
I think it's an easy thing to start.
I don't think I don't know if I would if I called someone's house that like I thought was a no call, no show.
(23:20):
My husband was like, oh, she's at work. I would just kind of be like, you know, and was like hung up.
I probably wouldn't impress. Yeah.
I guess like probably in the moment you want it. But looking back, it's so easy for us to be like, why didn't you do this?
Why did you do this? Exactly. Yeah.
He didn't think much of it.
(23:41):
At around four p.m. is when Jay again called the chase chase chase chase chase chase chase to find out that Mary had never made it in that day.
Mary had actually forgotten her cell phone at home that day.
Oh, boy. I called her.
(24:04):
I was at home. Yeah. I'm silent. So he then started to get even more panicked when he found it and was like, what if she had gotten into an accident on the way to work?
And he had no idea what if she was stranded somewhere and couldn't call?
And within a few hours of the police arriving at the scene, they were able to identify the car as Mary Morris Chevrolet.
(24:27):
So this is where it all ties back in.
The reason it took even hours for them to figure it out was due to the fact that it was so badly burned.
The tires, the interior and the engine had all started melting and the engine and the engine.
Like that's fucking hot. Yeah.
All right.
(24:50):
Inside the car, in the passenger seat where human remains in the passenger seat, in the passenger seat, not the driver's seat.
OK. Yeah. Noted.
So it's not her doing it.
Obviously, I don't know why you would choose that method to set yourself on fire, but you're not.
But obviously that kind of raises questions like, was she even alive when it got set on fire?
(25:17):
To be taken to there to be set on fire or what?
You know what I mean? Like huge questions are raised from that.
So, yeah, her human remains were found in the car and according to police, they were so badly burned, they could only be identified through dental records.
And three days after the car was found, the remains were positively identified as 48 year old Mary Morris.
(25:44):
Isn't that so crazy that you can like identify people through their dental records?
Yeah. And when her bones are burned to ash or her body's almost burned to ash, the teeth.
Yeah, that's crazy.
What the fuck? What the flip?
Yeah, it's absolutely insane.
(26:05):
OK, this is so like on topic, but off topic.
Yeah. What about people with dentures?
All those things are melting.
Yeah, I know. I know they're melting, but then you can't if someone has no teeth.
And you'd have to like do bone fragments if possible.
(26:26):
Yeah.
Sometimes you can get little pieces that are able to match the DNA, but it's not a great method, you know?
DNA is never a great method.
Even as refined as the technology is, it's kind of scary how much of it is an estimated guess.
(26:51):
Just kind of scary.
Yeah, RIP.
And that brings us to our first smoke break.
This smoke break is brought to you by...
Bread.
So, we at least worked to figure out exactly what happened to Mary.
(27:21):
And maybe most importantly, why this happened to her.
Because...
What the fuck?
Who just burns a body?
Yeah.
And it didn't seem like she was doing anything crazy unless they were trying to jack a car at the gas station.
(27:42):
But honestly, there wasn't a lot of information regarding what Mary did that morning when she left home since she never made it to work.
Jay said that he assumed based on the direction that she was heading, she was going to the gas station.
The attendant at the gas station did say that he thought someone came in that morning fitting her description, but he wasn't positive that it was her.
(28:11):
Shar.
But unfortunately, by the time the police wanted to check the security footage, the tapes had already been taped back over.
But is that like a normal thing with recorders and surveillance cameras that just tapes over?
Especially the old ones and especially at gas stations like that.
(28:32):
And it'll be like seven days and it'll re-record.
Why did they go back days later?
I don't know if it was days later.
It just said that by the time they had gone back, it wasn't there anymore.
So they waited either too long or maybe it didn't even save longer than 24 hours or something.
(28:55):
I don't know.
Now who did that?
I don't know.
I'm sure it's not that way anymore.
I would hope not.
I bet some places.
What year was that?
2000.
A while ago.
Over 24 years ago.
(29:16):
No.
Yes.
Simply no.
Simply cannot.
Yeah, 24 years ago.
Yeah.
So.
That's plausible.
But still, who designed that system?
I don't know.
Flawed.
It is flawed.
It's like the people, we have a safe at work that we had to completely destroy to get the money out of because the safe only has a certain number of opens.
(29:45):
And this was a business that had the safe.
What the heck?
You could only have it like a million times you could open a safe.
And after that it completely locked you out.
Couldn't get back into it.
What the heck?
I know.
Huh.
Like who the hell?
Who the hell?
And it's all for money.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
I know.
(30:06):
Unfortunately, like I said, by the time that they came back, the tapes had been taped back over and police had a theory that maybe someone approached them.
Maybe someone approached her at the gas station and they tried to rob her or carjack her and ended up just taking her with them.
Which they couldn't really prove because the cameras, you know.
(30:27):
But also you would think if they were trying to just say carjack, why did they set it on fire?
I mean after they were done with the use of it, but then why keep her?
Exactly.
And my next line exactly was, it's hard to believe that this was a carjacking at all when the person responsible had burned the car and a robbery seemed unlikely.
(30:49):
Yeah.
So right on the same track there, girl.
Yeah.
It just seems odd.
Not it.
Yeah.
It doesn't seem like that's the reason.
Yeah.
A normal, plausible reason I would say.
Yeah.
I mean it could be, I've never been in that situation so who's to say that you would make a bad decision like that if that was the end goal.
(31:15):
But like, did you get anything out of it?
It doesn't seem like it.
A few of Mary's belongings were missing.
Mary's wedding ring was missing but she still had a couple diamond jewelry pieces on her.
So like necklaces and earrings.
But her wedding ring was missing.
Her purse had been taken but her credit cards were never used.
(31:38):
Hmm.
And if this were a robbery, why did they leave behind the other diamond jewelry she had on and just take the wedding ring?
Like.
Yeah.
A wedding ring is a very particular piece of, I don't want to say a trophy that a killer would take but usually like it's that, a trophy.
(32:00):
So.
Hmm.
So you're saying this is a serial killer or someone who is specifically going for someone that wants that trophy because A, it was like a hit attack or B, it was a hate thing.
Yeah.
Or like a jealousy.
(32:21):
Yeah.
Either way.
You said a hit attack, I was kind of like thinking this in my head before you said that but you said they took her wallet and stuff but never used their card.
If it was a hit man, maybe they needed like her ID as like proof that like they got her.
(32:42):
Yeah.
Which is fucked.
Mind blown right now.
I know.
There were no fingerprints, no bullet casings, nothing.
And whoever did this clearly wanted to cover their tracks so they did a good job of it honestly.
According to Houston Sheriff Detective Robert Tonnery, whoever did this took a great deal of time to seclude her in that area.
(33:08):
And someone went into, went to the trouble to make sure that there was absolutely no evidence left behind.
Because then like, okay I want to bring it back to like the hit theory.
Yeah.
Because, I mean maybe someone just woke up that day and was like, I'm going to do this heinous act and like just find some random person and light their car on fire.
(33:31):
Like I assume this person had to have the materials with them in order to start a fire and to like set it on fire.
Yeah.
And if our theory is correct with getting them using a different like accelerator to make the fire even more hot, then they would have had to be prepared with that material as well.
(33:53):
So it seems pretty unlikely that it was just like a random thing.
I completely agree.
Yeah.
Yeah it seems very unlikely that it was just, oh I'm going to take your car and whatever you have on you.
Yeah.
That's not sitting right with me for sure.
So why, who, what, how did this happen?
(34:17):
You know, that's not what I have written down but who did this? Who could have done this to Mary?
Mary was a 48 year old mother and grandmother and she seemed very wholesome.
Marilyn, her daughter, described her mother as sweet and hardworking and a non-confrontational person.
(34:38):
She never argued with anyone or even with Jay and when her and Jay ended up having disagreements or didn't see eye to eye on something, she would never want to raise her voice.
She would just come at it very calm, very collected, very peaceful.
Not someone that you would immediately expect someone to pick out to carry something out like this.
(35:01):
Well we kind of mentioned that last week as well.
It always seems like the most genuine, kind hearted people always have, not always but seems like a majority of the time.
Like the good people always get targeted.
Sucks.
And sometimes grandma, come on.
People are cruel.
Grandma's grandma did that bad.
(35:24):
I'll get into this later when we get into theories but let me just keep going.
So she would never even raise her voice. She was not the type of person anyone would really expect to be a target of such a horrible end.
And police started to look into Mary's life.
Did she have any enemies or anyone that would have one if her dead?
(35:45):
And if so, why? You know?
But they kept coming up with absolutely nothing.
Time after time again, they're not finding anything, any plausible reasons as to why.
Does it talk about anything with Jay?
Yes.
Okay, I'll shut up.
Her and Jay seemed to have a fine marriage, according to police and Jay.
(36:08):
And Jay actually had an alibi for that day.
He had traveled, uh, traveled.
Traveled.
Traveled.
He had traveled a few towns over to talk to someone about buying a horse.
Because Texas, you know?
Texas thangs.
Texas thangs.
Interestingly enough, however, the direction Jay would have traveled to go to that town would have brought him right past Mary's burning car, which he told police he did not see when he was driving.
(36:40):
So maybe the theory of like the fire department just like waving it off as a leaps means like the fire wasn't that visible from that end of town.
So maybe it is possible that Jay didn't really see it if it was just dismissed as leaps earlier.
It's possible.
Very possible.
They said it was a very dense tree area.
(37:04):
So, could have covered it up.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's crazy.
To think that nobody would have seen it or.
Well, someone did see it.
Yeah.
He wouldn't have seen it, I should say.
Yeah.
And if you're not really looking for it, you know, maybe he could have just been like zoned out like.
Yeah.
Driving, just looking ahead, not really looking around his surroundings since.
(37:29):
I mean, it's probably a typical road that he would drive on close to home anyway.
Right.
Yeah.
And in theory, he would have passed Mary's car like right around the time the initial call was made.
So maybe the smoke that was coming from the forest wasn't as big as like after effects.
(37:51):
Yeah.
Burned the car, you know.
Jay was ultimately cleared almost immediately by police and they ruled that no one else in her life was a suspect.
And the case started going cold fast after that.
Mary, Mary, Mary Henderson, which is Mary, Marilyn, who is Mary Henderson, Morris's daughter.
(38:15):
Sorry.
There's a lot of tongue twister.
Remembers being frustrated with how the investigation into her mother's death went.
And she did not have much of a relationship with Jay at all.
Her mother had married him when she was an adult and out of the house, so she didn't really know him very well.
(38:37):
And after her mother's death, they did not keep in touch.
She kind of lost both her mother and what could have been her stepfather.
Yeah.
All in one swoop.
Marilyn was shocked to learn that within a few months, Jay had already married a Russian woman that she believed was a mail order bride.
(38:58):
Now it wasn't confirmed, but what she believed.
I don't know what gave her that impression, maybe that it was just so.
I smell cookies.
Have you been making them already?
I think so.
Do you guys smell that?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, brother.
And that's our second smoke break.
And this smoked break is brought to you by Chocolate Chip Cookies.
(39:22):
And we're back from our smoke break.
Good job, Brad.
And oh, wait, that was chocolate chip cookie time.
Yeah, it was fucking delicious.
Just so you know, the dab hit, the cookie hit.
We're ready to finish this episode.
(39:43):
So where we left off was Marilyn, Mary's daughter, was shocked to learn that within a few months of her mother's death, Jay had already married another woman, a Russian woman that she had believed to be a mail order bride.
There's no evidence of this, but like I said, she presumed.
(40:07):
Which is like so crazy, too, because like let's say Jay is like completely innocent.
You would think like five months after like losing your spouse would be so quick.
Like, how do you even like graven get over it and like heal in time to love someone else?
You know, five months after a death of a spouse is crazy business.
(40:32):
It really is. I don't even and to get married.
Exactly. Married like a whole marriage.
Psycho, psychotic.
Yeah, I know. That's that's wild business.
Yeah. Marilyn was also upset that the police did not ask more questions about what happened the day before Mary was murdered.
(40:57):
So they didn't really or at least they didn't share that they asked Jay any information they could have.
But it wasn't brought to Marilyn's attention that they had done that, you know, and she was upset.
She believed that they had blindly believed Jay's story and that he had watched her get into her car and drive off that morning.
(41:19):
But that if she had been killed before that morning, excuse me, and put into her car and then maybe driven to a remote location.
So, I mean, like we said, she was found in the passenger seat.
So like. OK. So in theory, though, if that was the case and let's say people did think it was Jay and he had already killed her before
(41:48):
and then dropped her off, that means he would have to hike all the way back in order to get home to go look at the horses on the way.
You know, like the timeline just unless like you had another car up there or something like the timeline just doesn't add up.
Yeah, you're right. For it to be him unless. Yeah, no, for me, it just doesn't add up.
(42:12):
Yeah, no, I agree. It's a little rushed. Yeah, that was him to have done it.
Because I assume it was a little bit of a distance from their house.
So that means he would have to walk all the way home. Yeah. Then.
Yeah, and then drive to go look at the houses.
(42:36):
And just like, yeah, does it doesn't add up for me. I agree.
I think it is weird that he remarried within five months, but I don't feel like he's really suspicious. Yeah. In my mind right now.
OK. Yeah, I don't know how to feel about Jay. I just feel like he's maybe a dick.
(42:57):
But then we have to remember he walks her to her car every morning. Well, that's what he says. True.
You know, he didn't live with anybody else. True. But I'm not I don't want to disregard what he did either.
All right. So, you know, Marilyn's mad about the way it was handled.
And she said that the car should have been searched a little bit more, but it wasn't.
(43:24):
And there probably was more evidence that they could find. But before police were able to get to the car and to like research it for evidence, Jason did the scrap yard to get destroyed.
How did he get the car back? Wouldn't that be police property at that point?
(43:47):
Like it becomes an active crime scene.
How did he get it back? I have no idea. It isn't everything he just says that he had it.
Yeah, I don't know how he got the car, but he got the car and he had it destroyed before they could relook at it.
So, I don't know how much they could find, how badly destroyed it was.
(44:10):
But still, it could still be like an active crime scene, even if they like initially didn't find evidence or things.
There is evidence there to give it to like potentially a suspect.
Like, I'm sure they ruled him out for the most part, but there's always a chance it still could be even if he didn't physically do it.
(44:35):
And for them to give it back to him before anything was even solved is like so crazy to me.
It is crazy. I don't know why people make the decisions they do, but here they are making bad decisions.
Even though the case was already taking over news coverage before Mary's remains were identified,
(45:00):
Marilyn could already feel the investigation on her mother becoming cold with lack of evidence and suspects.
So, she said that there was a lot of traction, a lot of coverage on the news, but ultimately there wasn't anything there.
So, regardless if there was coverage, like...
(45:22):
If you have no evidence, you have no evidence.
Yeah, there's not much you can do about that.
She personally felt that Jay was being flippant and that the police had given up and there was no obvious answer.
Some of the key pieces of evidence, aka the car, had been destroyed.
So, what more can you really look into?
(45:43):
Only three days after Marilyn Henderson Morris was found dead in her car, another Mary Morris would be found dead in her car in the same metro area.
This, of course, added a whole new element to the case.
One that made Marilyn hopeful that they would maybe be able to solve her mother's murder also.
(46:06):
On Monday, October 17th, 2000, the body of Mary McGinnis Morris, another Mary Morris, who had also had short dark brown curly hair, was found dead inside her car in Houston.
And that's just not a coincidence.
I wouldn't think so.
I fucking wouldn't think so.
(46:28):
It almost goes back to like the hit theory again of like, was it a mistake the first time and now they have to like get the actual Mary Morris that they're after.
How crazy is it that they would both live in Houston?
Right.
I mean, Houston's big, but like.
(46:49):
But yeah, same first name, same last name, and same county.
Yeah.
And it's even.
Yeah, no.
No, no, no.
That's weird.
Right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's weird.
That's crazy.
That's why like, I mean, all I have finished, but the hit theory of like they gone wrong, especially if they looked pretty similar.
(47:15):
Yeah, which they said they did.
Does she also drive the same car?
Does not drive the same car.
Oh.
But same name, same look, same area.
Yeah.
You know, close enough, I think.
Close enough to be mistaken.
Oh, yeah.
So Mary McInnis Morris was 39 years old.
(47:38):
She was a nurse nurse practitioner who had been out running errands that day before she was reported missing.
She had administered a flu shot to her friend, Lori Gimmel.
And then she went to the post office and then the grocery store and then a drug store.
So like Walgreens or whatever.
While at the drug store, Mary McInnis Morris called her friend Lori, who she had just given that flu shot to.
(48:06):
Lori said that Mary said to her that there was a man there who was making her feel a little uneasy.
So that's never a good sign.
Lori said that she had said it matter of fact and not necessarily like she was scared, but more just like, hey,
like there's someone here that's kind of making me feel a little uneasy.
(48:28):
She was aware that Mary herself was uncomfortable and that she was going to head home as soon as she was done.
But actually, first, she told Lori that she was going to make one quick stop at work to shut off her computer before she went home.
And, you know, it's the 2000s.
So why do you can't shut off that computer?
(48:51):
So it doesn't take over the world. Exactly.
So that's why she had to run home and not just let it stay over the weekend or whatever.
After 15 minutes after that phone call was made to Lori, Mary McInnis Morris called 911.
(49:12):
So, oh, yeah, she was able to make that call.
But unfortunately, by the time that call ended, Mary was dead.
So I haven't personally heard the phone call, but it is presumed that whoever was on the other end may have heard her murder.
(49:34):
But it doesn't say specifically.
It doesn't say specifically, but it said she was able to connect to 911 and before the call had ended, she was dead.
So it's very likely. Yeah.
Unless the phone got dropped somewhere, you know, you know, I mean, in between.
But Mary didn't make it home that evening.
Her husband called Mary's cell where she to see where she was.
(50:01):
This was about an hour and a half after she made that 911 call.
And then when he didn't get an answer, he called the police to report her missing.
Mary's phone records show about a four minute incoming call from Mike, who's her husband, who had been at the movies with their teenage daughter, Katie, at the time of the murder.
Four minute incoming call. Yeah.
(50:24):
So he didn't talk to her. He didn't talk to her.
But I but he has his alibi of being with the kids at the movie.
Yeah, that one's weird to me because it doesn't bring for four minutes. He didn't leave a four minute message.
(50:55):
It connected. Unless he like called her and went to voicemail on it.
The phone company hung up. No, it didn't go to voicemail at all. It connected. Oh, it can like. Oh, because they can see that on the phone record. Yeah.
It didn't. It didn't go to voicemail. It wasn't a voicemail.
(51:18):
It was a connected phone call. Interesting, right? Right.
He said he had never reached his wife and just rang and rang and rang and how and however the phone company, he said it just rang and rang and rang.
But however, the phone company insisted that the cell phone was connected, like I said.
(51:40):
Playing devil's advocate here. Maybe he did call.
It they answered and it was just like nothing. And so maybe he was just like, yeah, and hung up.
Yeah, no, I'm not saying it's weird.
(52:02):
I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. I like it. I'm just also playing the other side.
Yeah, no, it's still weird. Four minutes is a long time. A minute is a long time. Yeah. No, it's definitely weird.
I'm just like if but if he was at his that's why I'm playing like more devil's advocate because I'm like if he was with his kids at the movies.
Yeah, it would be hard to do. Yeah. All of it would be hard.
(52:26):
But yeah, it's weird though that it connected for four minutes. Yeah.
And he was like, no, I didn't talk to her.
I get through Mary was Mary's car was found the next morning by a tow truck driver and she was found inside her car with a single gunshot wound to the head.
(52:47):
She only had one thing missing from her wedding ring wedding ring.
Theory is looking better and better. So
that one was on her. She was just shot. One single shot.
Mary's wedding ring was the only thing missing and it appeared that she had been severely beaten and gagged before being shot in the head.
(53:16):
According to her husband, Mike, Mary McInnis Morris had
been keeping the gun that was used to kill her in her car for about two weeks and for a good reason.
She was afraid of another nurse who worked with her.
Mary who worked with Mary.
(53:37):
I'm sorry. A man named Dwayne Young who made her uncomfortable.
Mary's friend, Lori Gimmel, who we talked about earlier, who was on the phone with her that day that she went missing,
said that Dwayne, quote, complained to her supervisors,
questioned her authority and often seemed agitated by her.
(54:00):
Lori asked Mary at one point if she really thought that he could hurt her and she said, Yes, I do. I think he could even do worse.
Scary.
Things only seem to get worse at work with Dwayne.
And eventually there was a note found in Mary's office that said, quote, death to her, end quote, which.
(54:22):
That's terrifying. What the fuck?
What the fuck? Yeah, no, that's horrifying. I don't like that at all.
That's so ominous considering what ends up happening to her.
So was any of that brought to like HR?
Actually, yes. OK. So, yeah, she found that Mary believed that it was actually from Dwayne and it was written about her.
(54:47):
Obviously, it was found in her office on her desk.
She found things out of place on her desk.
Pictures turned to face around directions.
And on Dwayne's desk, there was words written death to her, which she assumed also was about her.
Like, obviously, if you find one in your office and another one in his, you're going to assume, especially with him being creepy, too.
(55:12):
Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, it's weird as fuck.
I don't like that. Yeah.
Her husband, Mike, said that after she found the note, she made a phone call to him on her way home and he could tell that she was shaken up about it.
Understandably so. Completely.
She got home and asked him that night if he could provide her with a gun to carry with her so she could have it for protection.
(55:36):
She asked him to go over the handling and the use of the gun.
And when they were finished, she asked him to place the gun under her car under the driver's seat.
So that's where that gun remained until she was ultimately killed with it.
Mary took the note to her supervisors and they advised her not to come into work on Friday the 13th.
(55:58):
When Mary didn't show up to work that day, it was reported that Dwayne started asking where Mary was.
Which.
I'm sorry. Hold on. Hold your horses.
HR said, don't come in tomorrow.
Well, because it was Friday the 13th.
And you know how people are.
(56:19):
Yes. Yes. True.
But they didn't do anything with that information beyond that.
Like, yeah, cool. Send her home. Don't let her come back until you do an investigation.
And like.
What? That's my like that's all it says that they did. Just go home. Don't come tomorrow.
(56:42):
They just advised her not to come in tomorrow.
Yeah.
I know. What?
That's good old HR for you.
They always do such a good job.
Yikes.
That's so mind blowing that that's all like they're like, just don't come in.
(57:04):
Yeah.
So, Lori Gimel again, Mary's friend, reported that Dwayne was banging on windows asking for her.
Asking for Mary.
And then eventually he was so irate that he was escorted out of the building.
Wow. Yeah.
He must have been like really going crazy.
(57:27):
If they're like, yeah, no, you're out of here.
He needs to leave.
So two days later after that happened, Sunday, Mary was dead. Two days later.
And when was the other Mary killed again?
Mary, the first Mary was killed October 12th.
12th.
(57:48):
13th.
When did the other one? 15th?
Uh huh.
So 12th, 15th.
12th, 15th.
So that would be interesting because they told her not to come in on the 13th.
Which would be the 12th.
(58:11):
The 12th is when she probably found that note.
It was when the other Mary unfortunately had her life taken.
Three days later is when other Mary died.
Uh huh.
Hold on, I try to wrap my brain around this. This is so crazy to me.
(58:35):
Okay, so I need a chalkboard.
Mary died the 12th.
The first Mary died the 12th.
Yeah, the first call came in at 10am. So early.
(58:57):
I'm assuming other Mary found the note that said death to her also on the 12th.
Or earlier that week even.
Yeah, sometime that week.
Because she was able to come home and tell her husband.
He said that she had been carrying that gun for a week before her death.
(59:22):
Yeah, it was only two days in between all of this.
While police had no leads at first, Lori Grimmel remembered another piece of evidence from her phone call with Mary McInnis Morris that morning.
15 minutes before she was shot with the gun she kept in her car, Mary told her, uh, Lori, that she thought she recognized the creepy man following her as someone she had met through Duane Young.
(59:51):
Oh.
Spicy. Yeah.
So through Duane Young you say, Duane had been a problem.
Mary and her husband had actually attended events at his home.
And he had been to theirs.
So it is possible that Mary had met a couple people through him.
(01:00:15):
Yeah.
I don't know why they were all hanging out, but.
So Duane himself had no physical evidence that put him at the scene.
Nothing to actually charge him on.
And the gun in Mary's car only had her and her husband's fingerprints on it.
Which, you know, both of theirs was expected based on the story Mike gave them.
(01:00:40):
So before police looked into who this mysterious creepy man following Mary was, they wanted to look into Mike Morris a little bit more, who was Mary's husband.
But Mike immediately lawyered up right after the murder, making authorities of course wonder if, you know, that's a little suspicious.
(01:01:01):
Making him a little suspicious.
That doesn't bother me.
No, no, like I would say this a million times over, like always lawyer up if you're in that situation.
I'll bring you back to the West Memphis 3 case once again, because I'm here to always bring that case up.
Fucking lawyer up, because you think that they can't just go making bullshit up against you, but they fucking can and they will.
(01:01:28):
And if they find you absolutely any type of like, not the person that they think you are, they're going to fucking charge you and you're going to be in jail for murder.
Yeah.
And not to mention like they, like a lot of places keep you so long while they're interrogating you, where they like, they start to like make you believe things that they're telling you even if it's not true.
(01:01:54):
Right.
No, that doesn't bother me at all.
No, smart to lawyer up.
I don't get suspish.
No, we know it's the best option.
Lawyer up regardless of your situation.
So I'm not going to say that like based off that he's a suspect, you know, we're not going to say that, but police definitely thought so.
(01:02:16):
You know, of course the police are going to think that.
One thing police quickly realized about Mike and Mary Morris was they did not have a perfect marriage like Jay and Mary supposedly had.
The problem seemed to start when the couple moved to Houston actually.
Mike felt that Mary may have been cheating on him.
(01:02:40):
Which brings another element of this interesting story, you know, maybe she had a secret thing with Dwayne.
I don't know if I want to start saying it now or if I like wait a little bit.
(01:03:02):
Yeah, let me let me get a little bit more.
Okay.
Hold on to your thought.
He went so far as to confront her and the person he believed to be in love with her or be her lover.
I'm sorry.
Both of them denied the accusations, however.
According to Mike, though, he chose to believe his wife and he said that things had dramatically improved since then.
(01:03:27):
And at the time of his wife's death, they were nearly best friends again.
Nearly.
Nearly.
I've never described anyone as nearly my best friend.
Yeah, either they are or they're not.
You're not nearly nothing.
Yeah.
Weird as fuck.
(01:03:48):
It describes your relationship with your husband.
Or wife I should say in this case.
But like you're nearly best friends again?
No.
I don't know about that.
I don't like nearly.
Some people, however, say otherwise.
Friends and family say that Mike remained distrustful and resentful and at times he would follow his wife around.
(01:04:12):
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't sound like he let that go.
His accusations may have not, though, been completely baseless.
Stephanie Lohr, who was Mary Morris's sister, said that Mary had confessed to her at one point that she had fallen in love with another man.
The plot begins.
(01:04:36):
I have so much I want to say.
Do you want to say it?
Should I?
It's up to you.
Or should I wait?
It's up to you.
My theory is maybe it will change as the story develops.
What if Dwayne was her secret lover?
That's what I think, too.
(01:04:57):
Yes.
What if they were the two, right?
They liked each other and had an affair with each other and they went over to each other's house at the time where they were on good terms.
Now, what if when J—not J.
Mike.
Mike.
What if when Mike found out about the affair, then Mary cut it off and was like, hey, we can't do this no more.
(01:05:20):
And that's when he became really crazy.
Mm-hmm.
That classic love triangle shit that we love to hear about.
Yes.
What if.
What if.
Anyways.
Stephanie said that she thought in love with another man.
She said that Mary did not want to leave Mike, however, and she was going to try and work things through.
(01:05:45):
But after going to a few different marriage counselors with no improvement, she was thinking about a divorce.
According to Mary's daughter, Katie, the man was questioned, but he was never considered as a suspect.
Hmm.
So I don't know if that would be Duane or not, you know?
(01:06:06):
Yeah.
Mike Morris, however, considered—was considered a suspect almost immediately.
He was asked—he asked for an attorney and refused to take a polygraph test, which I would do both those things, too.
I don't think that's an end all for someone to be suspicious, quote unquote, you know?
Mm-hmm.
(01:06:27):
He also, though, wouldn't let the cops talk to their daughter, Katie, which—
I mean, depending on how old did it say she was?
It didn't say.
Yeah, depending on how old she is.
Yeah.
I mean, you have—you know, why would you let your little kid?
Right.
I agree.
Police, of course, thought that this was suspicious, though, and they had—they had no issue with telling the press that only guilty people ask for attorneys.
(01:06:55):
Wrong.
That's—
They are wrong.
Wrong.
Yeah.
Ask for an attorney.
Mike seemed to be relatively cooperative in other ways, though.
He submitted blood samples, fingerprints, and allowed police access to their home.
There just wasn't enough physical evidence to charge Mike with her murder.
(01:07:16):
Yeah.
I don't think they had anything to go off with that.
Especially, like, I mean, if it was, like, standalone cases, right, then maybe you can, like, look into the husband a little bit more and be like, maybe it was the husband just based off of the fact of, like, the wedding ring being missing or other stuff.
I get, though.
(01:07:37):
But for it to be two Mary Morris's, it's like, okay, it's not going to be the husband for both or one, right?
Even a thing.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it actually being the husband who physically did it?
Right.
Right.
Police figured it was maybe a carjacking or a robbery gone wrong again, and even though the car was not jacked, and the only thing missing from Mary was her wedding ring.
(01:08:06):
Like, I don't know why they would still suspect that.
Yeah.
That's odd to me, but it was their assumption at first.
Her ring actually did not stay missing for long, however.
Months after the murder, one of Mary's friends noticed her daughter, Katie, was wearing the ring, and Mike just simply told police that she didn't wear it to work that day.
(01:08:31):
Huh.
She didn't wear it out when she was murdered, and they found it, which...
Could be possible, but also weird.
I'm not wearing mine currently, so...
Yeah.
It's very possible.
There are plenty of rumors and theories surrounding both of these cases that we could just go into some, but they're just mostly people's educated guess, some better than others, but ultimately they're all just guesses.
(01:08:58):
Mary McGinnis Morris' case had more suspects, but eventually police ruled that, just like Mike Henderson Morris, there was just not enough evidence to charge anyone for her murders.
Or their murders, for that matter.
Just like the case of Mary Henderson Morris, the murder of Mary McGinnis Morris went cold.
(01:09:22):
Both of them remain unsolved to this day, unfortunately.
Both cases were initially high profile because of their shocking coincidences, but neither family nor victims have had justice for this unwanted murder.
Both were full of life, love, and both deserve to live and deserve to see justice.
(01:09:45):
So, what are your thoughts on the case?
I mean...
I know we discussed that we thought maybe love triangle...
I think maybe love triangle go wrong, maybe even the element of a hitman.
I think it could be two reasons.
(01:10:06):
I think both are a hitman theory.
I think number one might be the Duane situation where they were in love.
She cut it off, he got upset, put out a hit on her.
Or the second theory being of which her husband put out the hit because they were having marriage problems, she cheated on him, whatever.
(01:10:32):
It could be both.
But, I don't know.
Either way, fuck.
Yeah.
And if it's not either of those, then it's the most uncanny coincidence that has ever happened.
I don't think it is.
I really don't.
Not with both wedding rings, miss. There's no fucking way.
(01:10:54):
No.
There's no fucking way.
There's no way.
I do think it's 100% the hitman theory.
Of either way, but I'm more leaning towards the hitman from her coworker.
Or from her lover.
Mmhmm.
Just simply based on the fact that there was a note in their offices in the freakout after.
(01:11:21):
And the fact that she said she might have recognized that guy in the store from doing whatever.
I'm leaning more towards that side.
Yeah.
Because, like, yeah, her husband might have a little suspicious whatever.
But he also had a lullaby of being with his daughter.
Well, not lullaby.
(01:11:43):
He had an alibi of where he was.
He did.
So, yeah.
Coworker.
Yeah.
I'm gonna take a breath.
Let us know what you guys think.
Because obviously this is still an unsolved case.
Let's be respectful in the comments if you do have any theories.
(01:12:08):
But we would like to know what you guys think.
Because any kind of publicity is good for these kind of cases, honestly.
Bringing traction to cold cases in respectful manners are always good for the cases.
So, yeah.
And then, yeah.
Let's do it.
Just for us, too, like, we love reading the comments.
(01:12:29):
So, if, again, throughout the season, well, that was a struggle.
Throughout the season, if you do have theories that's, like, completely different from ours,
please let us know because we do enjoy reading those.
And we will read them.
But, yeah.
Yeah.
Let us know what you think.
And until next time, stay high.
(01:12:50):
Stay safe.
Thank you for listening.
Hey, guys.
Let us know what you think down below in the comments.
But, as always, be respectful and kind as these are serious cases that have yet to be solved.
If you enjoyed the show, please like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell
so you can know when we drop our next episode.
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