December 20, 2024 • 71 mins
November 4th, 1971. During a flight from Portland to Seattle, a man who claims to be Dan Cooper successfully hijacked flight 305. Join us as we discuss the details in which he was able to pull this elaborate plan off. A case a little different than we normally do and will leave you with more questions than answers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Happy 420, I'm Kai and I'm Queen Reefer and you're watching Stone Cold Murder. Just a PSA,
(00:06):
if you have any information to help solve a crime, you can go to Crimestoppers.com to report any
information anonymously. This podcast contains material that might not be suitable for all
audiences. Viewer discretion is advised. Welcome back to Stone Cold Murder, season 3, episode 7.
(00:30):
How are you? I'm doing good, how are you? I'm doing well, real well.
Are you doing well? Yeah, as you can tell.
I think. Can you? Does that help? Now that looks scared.
(00:54):
I love that your eyes are like this and then you tried to open them even wider and your body
tends to look like this. Like it was going to open it anyway. She said, can you see them? Homegirl
just squared up on y'all. Here we fight. No, I took like 50 milligrams of edibles, which is kind
(01:19):
of light for me, but. But then you also took two dabs. So. Yeah, and I've been smoking on the pen
too. So the Benjamin Franklin. So I'm nice and stoned. Hell yeah. Yeah. I'm nice and
like wheeled up. Like, whoa. Did you like drink it with some soda? I know. Some Cissor.
(01:46):
I was in channeling my little and a little and a little.
Be either.
I didn't say it. I said it not once, but twice.
And get out. I'm channeling my little and.
(02:19):
I'm channeling my inner little Wayne.
So you weren't channeling your inner little Wayne or you said you were.
I was not. I thought I was going to mess it up. She said, did you channel?
(02:53):
I hate it.
You. Well, this case is not a murder case, but Kai.
We're stone cold murder. I know. I know. This was a potential murder. Like this could have been
(03:16):
a murder and it is a cold case, but it's not a murder case. So it's a little different than
our normal case. We cover. Okay. What do you think? Should we get into it? No, I think we should not
(03:36):
do this case. Just kidding. No, I'm ready. It's time to wrap up and get out of here. Thanks for
coming to the episode. Until next time. Stay high. No, we're going to do it.
All right. Yeah, I'm ready. I did. You know why?
(03:58):
Insert last week's clip. Are you ready? I'm ready because you know what? If you stay ready,
you don't got to get ready because you're already ready. Stay hard. Stay hard.
Oh, honey. I do.
(04:23):
Oh, God, you guys are in for a treat. Maybe. Speaking of treats, go grab one.
Hmm. Your favorite baby. It's time to dive in. I'm about to dive in. Our story starts out on
(04:44):
the afternoon of November 24, 1971 at the Northwest Orient Airlines in Portland,
Oregon. The flight was going to Seattle, Washington. And while he was waiting for the flight to take
off, he ordered a bourbon and soda to drink. The flight left Portland on time or left for
Portland on time at 2.50 PM Pacific Standard Time and was set to make an on time arrival in Seattle.
(05:14):
Shortly after takeoff, Cooper handed a note to the flight attendant who was sitting in the jump
seat at the rear of the airplane behind where Dan was seated. Assuming the note was like his
number or something, she kind of just took it and put it in her purse. And Mr. Cooper then
leaned towards her and whispered, Hey, miss, you'd better look at that note. I have a bomb.
(05:39):
She then went ahead and opened the note. Obviously a little concerned now that it wasn't
actually his number. But I could imagine as a flight attendant, you probably get that quite
often. So I probably wouldn't have read the note either. I don't blame her for just crumbling it up.
The note in all cap letters said, Miss, I have a bomb in my briefcase, and I want you to sit by me.
(06:09):
Ew. Yeah. Isn't that gross? Miss Schaffner was the flight attendant. She went ahead and returned
the note to Mr. Cooper and sat down next to him as he requested. She then quietly asked to see the
bomb, which I thought was a bold move of hers, because I don't know if I would ask. I mean,
(06:32):
I guess for rarefication, but I thought that was bold. Yeah. He opened the briefcase and she saw
what looked like two rows of four red cylinders, and she thought they were dynamite. Wait, what year
was this? 1971. Okay. Checks. Yeah. I was like, if this is recent, what the fuck? No, not very recent.
(06:58):
Cool. This checks. Yeah. We're good. I mean, we're not good, but it makes more sense.
Cooper closed the briefcase and told the attendant that he had demands, and if she followed them,
they wouldn't get hurt. She wrote a note with all of his requests and brought it to the flight deck
and informed the crew of the situation. Captain Scott directed her to remain in the flight deck
(07:21):
for the remainder of the flight and take notes of everything as they happened. With Schaffner in
the flight deck, a different flight attendant, Miss Muclough, sat next to Cooper to act as a middle
man between him and the other flight crew members. After all of Mr. Cooper's demands were noted,
the pilot then relayed to Northwest Flight Operations in Minnesota the hijackers' demands.
(07:48):
Cooper requests 200,000 in a knapsack by 5 p.m. He wants two front parachutes, two back parachutes,
and he wants the money in negotiable American currency. By requesting these two parachutes,
it's theorized that it was to discourage them from messing with the parachutes,
(08:16):
because he could take a hostage, basically. He asked for four parachutes. They can't all be for him.
You know, two of them are probably for him. And then he requested two more. So...
Did they just have parachutes stacked on the plane?
No, but that was his demand that he wanted one and money.
(08:41):
How would he use a parachute if there's no parachute on the plane?
No, no, no. He's negotiating to get a parachute and money.
But how is he going to get a parachute?
Well, I'll tell you.
Well, it makes no sense. It's a hijack.
Yeah, but they don't got parachute on board, so they're going to land,
(09:03):
grab a parachute, and go back up in the air?
Yeah, they are.
Okay, I'm many. They can know I'm me.
So yeah, so the theory is that by asking for an additional front and back parachute,
that he was going to take a hostage with him. So that discouraged anybody for the people that
was giving him the parachute from like messing with it so that he wouldn't like die. You know what
(09:28):
I mean? Because they didn't know which parachute he was going to get, basically.
Cooper also demanded that when they land at Sea Tech, there were to be fuel trucks to meet the
plane and all the passengers were to remain seated while Miss Mucklow brought the money aboard.
He would release the passengers after he had the money. The last items brought aboard would be
(09:50):
four parachutes. Scott informed Sea Tech Air traffic control of the situation,
and they contacted Seattle Police Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, so the FBI
of the situation at hand. Because honestly, like, I don't feel like in this time, there was a whole
lot of like plane hijackings going on. And this one is pretty calculated. Like he did a really good
(10:18):
job of like blending in all the way to getting into the air and then demanding his wants, you know?
Well, and also like back in this time, too, there was a lot of security. Of course. With like
airplanes and airports and all that stuff, which is crazy. Yeah, you can get away with a whole
(10:41):
lot more for sure. Passengers were told their arrival in Seattle would be delayed because of
a minor mechanical difficulty, which was smart on their end to not alert the passengers. Yeah,
not make them all scared. Right. Yeah. Sorry. It's okay. Donald Nyrob, the President of Northwest
(11:02):
at the time, authorized payment of the ransom and ordered all employees to cooperate with the
hijacker and comply with his demands. And that's where we'll take our first smoke break.
And this smoke break is brought to you by jugs.
(11:32):
And we're back for approximately two hours flight 305 circled the airport. So that's a
long fucking time to two hours, two hours. They said, Oh, did the passengers just think they were
(11:53):
just still in there? Yeah, they just thought they couldn't land because of the mechanical
difficulties or whatever. Crazy, right? So this gave the police department and the FBI enough time
to get Cooper's ransom money and the parachutes and to gather the proper emergency personnel
(12:17):
for the job. During the flight from Portland to Seattle, Cooper demanded that Miss Mucklough
remain by his side at all times. And she later said that Cooper appeared familiar with the local
terrain, which I thought was interesting. She said that when he looked out the plane window,
he kind of like recognized the places he was seeing. So familiar with the area.
(12:43):
She also said that he was not nervous and he was rather nice and he was not cruel or nasty.
So I guess that's nice. While the plane circled Seattle, Miss Mucklough chatted with Cooper
and asked why he chose Northwest Airlines to hijack. Which is interesting. I don't know if I
(13:05):
would be like talking to him much, but maybe that's me being introverted. Yeah, maybe she's also just
nervous. Yeah. Trying to like maybe lighten the mood with him or something. I don't know.
I have a hard time making small talks. Same.
Me being me. Me too. He laughed and replied, it's not because I have a grudge against your
(13:28):
airlines. It's because I have a grudge. And then he explained the flight was simply,
it just simply suited his needs. Meanwhile, the $200,000 ransom was received from Seattle's
first national bank and the money was $100,000 or $10,000 unmarked $20 bills,
(13:53):
most of which had the serial number beginning with L so that they could track it later on.
Around a 524 Pacific Standard Time, Scott was informed, which was the pilot,
that the parachutes had been delivered to C-Tech and notified Cooper that they would be landing
soon at 546. The flight flight 305 landed at C-Tech with Cooper's permission. Scott
(14:21):
parked the aircraft on a partially lit runway away from the main terminal, which as a passenger, I
would be probably, do you think you would think something was up or I guess maybe not? Maybe
not. Since it was like a mechanical issue and maybe they're like, oh, we have to park over here for
maintenance or something? Yeah, I guess. Cooper demanded only one representative of the airline
(14:46):
approached the plane with the parachutes and the money. And the only entrance and exit would be
through the aircraft's front door via mobile stairs. Northwest Seattle operations manager,
Al Lee, was designated to be the carrier. To avoid the possibility of Cooper mistaking Lee's airline
uniform for law enforcement, he just changed into regular civilian clothes. So smart. He could
(15:11):
avoid all of that. Yeah. I think it's smart too. All the passengers remained seated and a ground
crew attached a mobile staircase. Cooper told Ms. Mucklau to exit the aircraft through the front
door and retrieve the ransom money. When she returned, she immediately went straight to the
back where he was sitting and carried the money to pass all, just straight past all the other
(15:36):
passengers. Cooper then agreed to release the passengers. And as they got off the aircraft,
Mr. Cooper remained seated and he just inspected the money, making sure nothing was like placed in
the bag. Does it say anything about the passengers like being sassy about the whole situation?
Because there was one instance where they said a guy got a little irritated, but when they further
(16:02):
investigated it, the flight attendant said he wasn't irritated. He just was asking for a different
magazine. So I guess everybody remained fairly calm in the situation and didn't raise any suspicion,
which I thought was interesting. And maybe because it's the 70s, because I mean, flying back then was
like fancy kind of wasn't it still? I don't know. But I feel like if I saw someone coming, carrying in
(16:31):
a bag of money, I'm dropping it off and being like, everybody get off. I'll be like,
yeah, I would be weirded out for sure too. I'm not going to lie. I would definitely suspect something.
So Mrs. Mucklough was trying to joke around with Mr. Cooper to just try to like lighten the
(16:54):
tension a little bit. And she asked him if she could have some of the money, which I thought was
a boss ass move. And he actually agreed and he handed her a packet of bills. It's like, here you go.
And, but she like said no. And she said, no, we can't take tiff. So she didn't take any of the
(17:16):
money. And I thought that was funny. She said it was against company policy. That is funny.
What a boss ass move though, with the passengers safely off the plane, only Cooper and the six
crew members stayed on while Mucklough brought aboard the parachutes, Schaffner, which was the
other like the original flight attendant that he gave that note to ask Cooper if she could retrieve
(17:40):
her purse that was stored in the compartment behind his seat. He agreed and told her, I won't bite.
And she and a different flight attendant Hancock then asked Cooper if the flight attendants could
just leave. And he replied, whatever you, whatever you girls would like to do. So Hancock and Schaffner
(18:04):
piece the fuck out of here. Yeah, I was not saying, which I don't believe I would do. I'd be like,
all right, fuck that shit. I'm out not staying around for the shit. When Mucklough, Mucklough,
I'm sorry. I don't know if this Mucklough or Mucklough. Mucklough brought the final parachute
to Cooper. She gave him printed instructions for using the parachutes to which he said,
(18:31):
I don't need those. So it seems like he kind of knew what he was doing with the parachutes,
which we'll just note that a problem with the refueling process caused a delay. So a second
truck and then a third truck was brought in to actually refuel the airplane before they were
(18:52):
able to take off. But during this delay, it was said that Cooper complained that the money was
delivered in the wrong kind of bag and he wanted a, it was delivered in a cloth bag instead of like
a knapsack that he asked for. So he had to now improvise and transport the money in a different
(19:13):
way. So he used his pocket knife to cut open like pieces of the canopy of one of the reserve parachutes.
And stuffed the money into like the empty parachute bag instead, which is an interesting move,
but it seemed like he had a reason for it. He then gave the flight deck crew his flight plan
(19:36):
and directives. They were to fly Southeast course towards Mexico City at the minimum
airspeed possible without stalling the aircraft, which was approximately a hundred knots.
That's slow for playing. Yeah. And a maximum 10,000 foot altitude. For a commercial size plane.
(20:02):
Yeah. Cooper also specified that the landing gear must remain deployed.
You know why that probably is. Why? I mean, I don't know how it is back then,
but I'm almost wondering if, if they're above a certain amount of feet and a certain amount of
speed, then it's easier to like track like those are tracking something. I think it's
(20:25):
partly that and also partly, he wants to be able to jump out of the plane too. Yeah.
Like I think it's both things. So Cooper specified that the landing gear must remain deployed.
The wing flaps must be lowered at a 15 degree angle and the cabin must remain unpressurized.
(20:46):
So we can jump out. Uh huh. First officer Ratizak informed Cooper that the configuration
limited the aircraft's range to about 1000 miles. So a second refueling would it be necessary
before they entered Mexico? Would be necessary. Yes. Cooper and the crew discussed options and
(21:09):
then they all agreed on refueling in Reno, Tahoe international airport. Cooper further directed
the aircraft takeoff with the rear exit door open and the staircase extended, which
interesting as fuck. Yeah. Northwest officials objected for reasons of safety,
(21:33):
but Cooper countered it by saying it can be done. So do it. But then after that,
he didn't really insist any further and that he said that he would just go ahead and lower the
staircase once they're airborne. He also demanded that Mucklow remain aboard to assist in the
operation. So unfortunately she didn't get to peace out of there with the rest of them.
(21:58):
Around 740 PM flight 305 took off with Cooper, Mucklow, Scott, Ratizak and flight engineer
Anderson aboard two FO6 fighters from the cord Air Force Base and a Lockheed T33 trainer followed
it 727, which I guess was the flight or the aircraft. Yeah. So you know what you're talking about.
(22:28):
That's kind of why I thought you would like this case too.
Saga wings. This is all the Red Bull you drink.
Oh yeah. Hey Red Bull sponsors. Give us wings. I drink Red Bull twice a day.
(22:50):
But I'm not lying about that. I really do. She's not lying. I really love Red Bull.
All three jets maintain an S flight pattern to stay behind the slow moving 727 and out of
Cooper's view, which I thought had to be a crazy sight. Like I know they couldn't see it, but I
like could imagine that was so weird. Interesting. Yeah. After takeoff, Cooper told Mucklow to lower
(23:18):
the staircase. She told him that the flight, or she told him and the flight crew that she feared
being sucked out of the aircraft, which like valid, I would fear the exact same thing. Yeah. The
flight crew suggested that she come to the flight deck and retrieve an emergency rope to tie herself
(23:40):
to a seat. But Cooper actually rejected the suggestion and he said that he did not want her
going up front or the other crew members to come back to where they were. But she obviously continued
to like express her fear and she just kind of was like, well, can you cut some rope from the parachute
(24:01):
to like help me? Because I'm scared that I'm going to fall out of this thing. And he eventually said
that he was just going to go ahead and do it himself. So he instructed her to go back to the
flight deck and he didn't want her there. Yeah. He was just like, fuck it. I'm going to just do it.
And he's like, close the curtain petition between the coach in the first class and don't come back.
(24:28):
Cooper, what? Yeah. I don't want you back. So before she left, she begged Cooper, please,
please, please, please, please, please take that bomb with you to which he responded. Yeah,
I'll either disarm it or I'll take it with me. And she walked to the flight deck and returned
to close the curtain partition. She saw Cooper standing in the aisle trying to what appeared to
(24:55):
be like tying the money bag around his waist. I guess preparing to jump from the time Mucklau
entered the flight deck and takeoff was only five minutes in between. So it wasn't much time. Yeah,
that passed. For the rest of the flight to Reno, Mucklau remained in the flight deck
(25:21):
and she was the last person to actually see Cooper. At around 8pm, a light started to flash in the
flight deck indicating that the staircase had been deployed. The pilot used the plane's intercom
to ask Cooper if he needed assistance, but his last words were simple, no. And at 8.13pm,
(25:46):
the aircraft's back sections suddenly pulled upward, forcing the pilots to adjust and return
to a normal flight level. The crew remained in the flight deck for the rest of the flight,
so they weren't sure exactly when he jumped from the plane or if he even had when they landed.
They used the intercom to inform Cooper that they were approaching the Reno airport
(26:10):
and that he needed to raise the stairs so that the airplane could safely land. They tried this a
few times as the pilots made a final approach to land, so they tried to contact him a few times
and he never answered. And at 11.02pm, the staircase with the staircase still deployed, Flight 305
(26:35):
landed at Reno Tahoe International Airport. A perimeter was set around the aircraft with FBI
agents, state troopers, sheriff deputies, and Reno Police Department. And of course, no one was
like entirely sure if he had jumped off the plane or not, so they were being extra cautious.
(26:56):
And if he did, did he take the bomb with him or were they still at risk of maybe a major
explosion here? The aircraft was searched and they confirmed Cooper was no longer aboard.
And 30 minutes later, an FBI bomb squad declared that the aircraft was safe from explosion.
As they searched the plane, they found Cooper's black clip on tie, a tie clip,
(27:24):
so not the same thing, but a tie and a tie clip, and two of the four parachutes,
one of which was the one that had been cut open and that money stuffed into the bag.
During the forensic search of the aircraft, FBI agents found four major pieces of evidence with
(27:45):
direct physical link to Cooper. It was that black clip on tie that had a mother of pearl
tie clip on it, a hair from Cooper's headrest, and eight filtered tip rally cigarette butts from
the armrest ashtray. Well, I forgot that. Jesus fuck. I forgot that was a thing back then.
(28:09):
You could smoke on the planes. That was like huge too back then. That'd be wild, man.
Ew. I love cigarettes, but I don't think I want to fly with a bunch of cigarettes.
FBI agents found a black clip on tie in seat 18E where Cooper had been seated.
Attached to the tie was the gold tie clip with the circular mother of pearl in the center of the
(28:35):
clip, which pop off. That's nice. Slay, slay, Cooper. The FBI determined that the tie had been sold
exclusively at J.C. Appinney department stores and had been discontinued in 1968,
so three years, four years prior. Two hair samples in Cooper's seat were found,
(29:04):
a single strand of limb hair on the seat, which I assume is either arm hair or leg hair,
and a single strand of brown, Caucasian head hair on the headrest.
The limb hair, unfortunately, was destroyed by the FBI crime laboratory because it was determined to
(29:25):
be lacking enough unique microscopic characteristics to be useful, so they didn't need to keep it around.
However, the FBI crime laboratory did determine that the head hair was suitable for future
comparisons and they preserved that on a microscope slide. In the armrest ashtray of
(29:48):
seat 18E, FBI agents found eight rally filter-tipped cigarette butts. The butts were actually sent to
the FBI crime laboratory, but investigators were unable to find fingerprints and returned the
butts to Las Vegas field office. But the boots, I touched the butt, but additionally, they were
(30:16):
able to lift 66 fingerprints from the cabin area. At this time, it was assumed that the man that
jumped out of the plane used a fake name, which I would assume too, you didn't really need that
security. You didn't really need your ID back then, so you could use a fake name. You know what I mean?
(30:40):
And there's no way of tracing people down. Nowadays, like...
Yeah, you're not getting away with that. Well, you may get lucky, but it's not happening like this.
They did assume that he was using a fake name. FBI agents interviewed some of the eyewitnesses
from Portland, Seattle, and Reno, and they were able to develop a series of composite sketches.
(31:08):
The first sketch, Composite A, was released on November 28, 1971, and according to the
witnesses, the composite A sketch was jokingly known as being Crosby, because it looked kind
of like Bill Crosby. Crosby, not Crosby. And it was not an accurate description of Cooper at all,
(31:37):
so it was kind of just a jokey joke. But the Composite A sketch showed a young man with a
narrow face, and it did not resemble Cooper or capture his disinterested look. Like, let's get
it over. Oh, let's get this over. Holy shit. His disinterested look, because they said he always
(32:02):
looked like, let's get this over with type of a look. So my look. Yeah. A resting bitch face.
They said it didn't capture that. Slay. Yeah. His mother of pearl and his disinterested look.
He's a queen, for sure. Flight attendants Florence Schaffner repeatedly told the FBI
(32:23):
agents that the composite A sketch was a very poor likeness of Cooper. So after multiple
eyewitnesses said that that sketch was not an accurate rendering of him, they decided that
they were going to go ahead and develop a second sketch. Yeah, as they should. So this one was
(32:43):
completed in late 1972. Composite B sketch was intended to depict a more accurate age of Cooper
and his skin tone and face shape better. Composite B was more accurate, but Cooper looked too angry
(33:04):
or nasty. Okay. Yeah, I feel like these are just facial expressions. They're like, like, does it
look accurate? He looked too nasty. One flight attendant said that the composite B sketch looked
like a hoodlum and he was and he remembered Cooper as more of a refined appearance. So.
(33:32):
Well, yeah, I mean, I could see probably that if he had a pearl. A mother of pearl.
A mother of pearl around his neck.
Crasping my pearls. Oh, my pearls. Composite V sketch depicted an older man,
a man older than Cooper with a lighter complexion, they said. So using the criticisms from this
(33:59):
now V sketch, the FBI artists made another adjustment and improved composite V sketch.
Jesus. Either anything you'd like more accurate, like descriptions from the witnesses or they
need a new artist. Something. Because what the fuck? What the fuck? On January 2nd, 1973,
(34:23):
the FBI finalized revised composite B, their third sketch of Cooper. One flight attendant said the
revised composite B was a very close resemblance to the hijacker. So this was the best they got.
In April of 1973, the FBI concluded the revised composite B sketch.
(34:48):
And they said that this was the best that they could do. So the flight attendants Schaeffner
and Muklau, who spent the most time interacting with Cooper were interviewed on the same night
in separate cities and gave nearly identical descriptions of the man. A man in his mid 40s,
approximately five foot, five foot 10 inches tall and 100 to 170 to 180 pounds with olive toned skin,
(35:18):
brown eyes and short combed back black hair with no discernible accent. In May of 1973,
the FBI and initially internally released an eight page suspect profile of Mr. Cooper. So this is
what they assumed there's who they were looking for. Yeah. All right. The profile suggests Cooper
(35:46):
was military trained, parachutist and not a sports skydiver. And if he was in the sports
skydiving community, they would more recognize him because of his age. So it was likely that that
was not where he got that training. Multiple eyewitnesses noticed that noted Cooper's athletic
(36:11):
build. So the FBI profile suggested that Cooper probably exercised regularly, regularly despite
his age. They suspected that Cooper was an Air Force veteran familiar with Seattle and the
surrounding areas. Cooper recognized Tacoma as the jet circled, Pudget Sound and in his conversations
(36:34):
with Muklau, Cooper correctly noted Mukkord AFB's proximity to Seattle Tacoma Airport,
which was the military base. And he had details which most civilians would not be familiar with.
(36:55):
So that's kind of what made them have that thought. His mannerisms and vocabulary,
his way of planning through the retrieval of the evidence, such as the money and the parachutes,
and his use of aviation terminology really led the FBI to conclude
(37:18):
Cooper was not just a common criminal. Cooper was clearly intelligent, not impulsive,
or easily rattled. He was very careful and procedure oriented. He was a planner,
adept and anticipating contingencies and adaptive strategies. And with meticulous,
(37:41):
he was meticulous and methodical in his tendencies as well. Just a lot of words for he was very
organized. It reminds me of when I have to write a paper for school and it has to be a
certain amount of words. Yeah. No, I did not write that. That was literally from the FBI's
(38:02):
profile. So it wasn't me just like, oh, he was these things. That was like, this is the type
of man we're looking for. So just so you know, it wasn't me. Profiles. It wasn't me, I promise.
Profilers also noted Cooper's ability to quickly adapt to various situations as they arose indicated
(38:28):
that he probably preferred to work independently and neither needed nor wanted an accomplice.
Cooper's financial situation was probably desperate according to retired FBI chief investigator Ralph
Himmels-Batch. He said that most criminals who steal large amount of money nearly always do so
(38:49):
because they urgently need it. Otherwise, the crime is not worth the risk, basically,
which makes sense. The FBI considered, but ultimately dismissed the possibility that Cooper
was a thrill seeker who made the jump just to prove that it could be done, which I don't think
(39:10):
that was the case really. I'm not sure why he did it, but I don't really think that was the case.
By calculating the number of cigarettes that Cooper smoked throughout the hijacking,
the FBI believed that Cooper smoked about one pack of cigarettes a day.
Damn. Yeah. I thought I was like, oh, shit.
(39:32):
Agents theorized that Cooper's alias was based on like a comic hero called Dan Cooper. The main
character was popular in French language and it was a Belgian comic series, basically.
One cover actually depicted Dan Cooper skydiving. So that's kind of why they assumed.
(39:55):
Yeah. Because the Dan Cooper comics were neither translated to English nor imported to the United
States, FBI profilers speculated that the hijacker encountered them during either like a European
tour tour on duty and that he probably spoke fluent, French, French, French. Well, apparently you
(40:17):
don't speak fluent English. He apparently spoke fluent French is what I was actually trying to say,
but can't come out of my mouth. Knowledge and planning based on the evidence and Cooper's
tactics, the FBI speculated that Cooper planned the hijacking carefully using detailed and specific
(40:43):
knowledge of aviation, the local train and the seven to sevens capabilities, which all makes sense.
Cooper chose the seat in the very last row in the rear cabin for three reasons.
So they thought it was to observe and to respond to any action in front of him,
(41:03):
to minimize the possibility of being approached or attacked by someone behind him,
and to make himself less conspicuous to the rest of the passengers, which all makes sense.
To ensure he would not be deliberately supplied with the sabotage equipment like we talked about
earlier, Cooper demanded the four parachutes to force the assumption that he may take a hostage
(41:29):
to jump. So the FBI also figured that out too. FBI agent Ralph Hemselbatch noted Cooper's choice
of bomb instead of other weapons previously used by hijackers. This actually helped eliminate
attempts to rush him. Yeah, which makes sense. Yeah. So he'd be like, well, you know, like a gun
(41:50):
or a knife, someone could rush you, but like a bomb, you're not going to try and rush a bomb.
You're just going to blow up. There's no chance of surviving that.
And not to mention like a ninth yard could like hurt or kill a couple of people, but like a plane
full of passengers, like you can easily like detain him. Right. He was also very careful to avoid any
(42:13):
evidence being left behind. And before he jumped, Cooper demanded that the flight attendant,
flight attendant, my God, God damn, Cooper demanded that the flight attendant, Ms. Mucklau,
return to him all of the notes that either were written by him or about what was going down.
(42:34):
They were all to be returned to him. And that he said,
Mucklau said that she used the last match in his paper matchbook to light one of his cigarettes.
And that when she attempted to throw away the packet, he wanted that trash. So he didn't let
her throw that away either. He thought this all out. Uh huh. He had it all thought out. I know,
(42:58):
which is crazy. Like this is crazy. Although Cooper meticulously attempted to retrieve all
of his evidence he did leave behind that tie, the tie clip and all those cigarettes. So
he was clearly familiar with the 727s capability and the confidential features.
(43:23):
The 727 design was primarily the primary reason that Cooper chose the aircraft
because of the staircase that they had the placement of the three engines.
And the 727 was one of the only passenger jets from which a parachute jump could be easily made.
So Mucklau told the FBI, Cooper appeared to be familiar with the, uh, with the 727s typical
(43:50):
refueling time and procedures. So it seemed like he had knowledge. Yeah. By specifying the 15 degree
flap setting, Cooper displayed specific knowledge of aviation tactics and the 727s capabilities.
And unlike most commercial jet airliners, the 727 could remain in a low,
(44:14):
a slow, low altitude flight, uh, altitude flight without stalling. So it seemed like he knew that
also. Did they ever look into like pilots as well? They did. Okay. Cause I was going to say
that could also make sense. Maybe he didn't have the military background, but if he was like a
previous pilot, that would make sense of why he would be also familiar with like his surroundings
(44:36):
in the sky. Yeah. And I'll be honest, they looked into a lot of fucking people. I did not put a
lick of any of them in here because there was so many people and none of them have been convicted
of it. So I just kind of left that out. But they interviewed from 1971, um,
all the way to 2016. Jesus. Tons of people. Okay. Just every year. So the flap setting,
(45:05):
Cooper specifically requested, allowed him to control the, uh, the 727s airspeed and altitude
without entering the flight deck where he could have been easily overpowered by the people inside.
First officer, Bill or Rada Zach, who spoke with Cooper on the intercom during the hijacking,
(45:26):
told the FBI that Cooper displayed a specific knowledge of flying and aircraft and aircrafts
in general. The most significant knowledge Cooper displayed was a, was a feature both secret and
unique to the 727. The aft stair case could be operated during the flight and excuse me,
(45:51):
and the single activation switch in the rear of the cabin could not be overridden from the flight
deck. So he knew that. That's weird. Isn't that crazy? Why would that even be a feature? I don't
know. But it was unique to that model of the plane only. That doesn't even make sense. You would
think any like control would be from the flight deck. Uh huh. So he knew how to operate that aft
(46:16):
staircase and had clearly planned to use it for his escape. The FBI speculated that Cooper
knew the central intelligence agency was using the 727s to drop agents and supplies into the
image and the enemy territory during the Vietnam war. So that's how he knew that all of this could
(46:38):
be done since no situation on most civilian flights would like cause a need for this.
Civilian crews were neither informed of the, the air stair situation that it could be lowered from
the back mid-flight, nor were they aware that the operation could be overridden, could not be overridden
(47:02):
from the flight deck. Yeah. Which yeah, I feel like you don't want that in the public. No, you
really don't. It's smart that they didn't know that. Cooper appeared, appeared to be familiar
with parachutes, although his experience level was completely unknown because we don't know who he
was. McLeo said that Cooper appeared to be completely familiar with the parachutes that had been given
(47:25):
to him and told a journalist, Cooper put on his parachute as if he knew he put it on every day
like he knew what he was doing. He had no trouble doing it. Cooper's familiarity with the military
style parachute he was given has resulted in the speculation that Cooper was a military parachutist
(47:50):
and not a civilian skydiver. So all that just to say that we still think he's in the military.
Basically just a long-winded explanation as to why. Which I like, I like that. Honestly,
because there's a lot of cases where they don't give you any information at all to even like,
(48:12):
so you can even like trace to be like, how did you get to this conclusion? So I would like this.
Yeah, it was nice that they had this. This is fortunately one of those big cases that people
are like, what the fuck? Yeah. So they had a lot of information, but you don't get so lucky on everyone.
Local police and FBI agents immediately began questioning possible suspects, looking from in
(48:34):
that fit this suspect description and looking into the possibility that he may have actually used his
real name. So they were looking for not only the suspect maybe using an alias, but also maybe he did
use his name for whatever reason. I don't think so, but you know, might as well try. Doesn't hurt.
Yeah. Another like area of trouble that they ran into with investigating this case was that they
(49:01):
couldn't really find the area in which he dropped specifically because they didn't know where he jumped
out. Wasn't there planes following them though? Yes. So the planes didn't know when he jumped?
Right. That's crazy, right? That's weird. It was night. So perhaps, but yeah. I thought that was
(49:26):
weird too. And with someone jumping out of a plane like that, there's so many different
possibilities as to what could have happened. That's what kind of made it hard looking for a
landing spot and the jets airspeed estimates varied. The environmental conditions changed
along with the flight path also varied and then aircrafts, location and altitude. And not only that,
(49:55):
Cooper was the only one that knew how long he remained in the like free fall before he pulled
that parachute, which could determine where you land also. And the F06 pilots that you were talking
about that were following them, neither saw anyone jumping from the airliner, airliner,
nor did their radar detect a deployed parachute, which is crazy. Yeah. But like I said, it was at
(50:25):
nights when all this happened. So a man in all black jumping into the night would be fairly
difficult. But also I feel like the radar like wouldn't detect that because if he's free falling
for a little bit, right? Right. Before pulling the parachute, then it's like, I would think so too.
That's not going to really show up. On December 6, 1971, FBI director J Edgar Hoover approved the
(50:50):
use of Air Force SR 71 Blackbird to retrace and photograph flight 305s flight pass and attempt
to locate the items Cooper carried during his jump. The SR 71 made five flights to retrace flight 305s
route. But due to poor visibility, the photography attempts were unsuccessful. In an experimental
(51:16):
recreation, flying the same aircraft used in the hijacking in the same flight configuration,
the FBI agents pushed out a 200 pound sled out of the plane and were able to reproduce that
upward motion tail section and brief exchange in the cabin pressure described by that flight crew
(51:39):
that happened at 813 PM. So they think maybe that's when he jumped? Yeah. Because of that
whoosh. Yeah. That change of pressure and stuff. FBI agents and sheriff deputies searched large
areas and largely forested terrain on foot and by helicopter. They did door to door searches
(52:00):
of local farmhouses. Other search parties ran patrol boats along Lake Murin and Yale Lake
and the reservoir to its east. And despite all of these efforts, nothing of any significance was
ever found in these searches. Using a fixed wing aircraft and helicopters from Oregon Army National
(52:23):
Guard, the FBI coordinated an aerial search along the entire flight path from Seattle to Reno.
And again, nothing of relevance popped up from this hijacking at all. And in the spring of 1972,
teams of FBI agents and 200 soldiers from Fort Lewis along with the United States Air Force,
(52:48):
the National Guard and civilian volunteers did another thorough ground search in the Clark
and Cowlitz counties for 18 days in March and then another 18 days in April. Can I just pause
real quick? Yeah. This is so crazy. I get them wanting to look this crazy and this hard on a
(53:12):
case like this because it's like a hijacking. A hijacking. But let's be so for real. If they did
this amount of investigating and searching and all of this on some of these murder cases,
they would be salt. Yeah. Because they're going like above and beyond. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What did
(53:33):
that say? Um, FBI, 200 soldiers along with the United States Air Force, the National Guard and
civilian volunteers. Yeah. What? You know what? They'll use the excuse. Well, there's so many
murders. We couldn't do that for everybody. I mean, I'm not saying you have to have the National
(53:58):
Guard civilian like United States Air Force. I'm just saying do the bare minimum. That bare minimum.
Because the last case we talked about, they didn't switch it to a missing person's case until
years later. It's like that is not the bare minimum. No, it's too late. It's too late. It's way too
(54:20):
late at that point. Yeah. It's like you might as well have signed their death warrant at that
point. And that seems a little harsh because it's like, Oh, well, you can't blame them for the death.
No, I'm not blaming them for the death. I'm blaming you for not doing your fucking job.
And you may think that you're doing your job, but you have not. Period. Not in all of these cases.
There's some cases that have done some thorough investigating, but it's cases like John Bona
(54:46):
Ramsey, but still not solved. You know what I mean? Yeah. But why, why was her case so significant?
Because people made a stink about it for no reason, but you can't make a stink for everyone, but
there should be, you know, there should be, there should be. And it's like their job to do so.
I just had to point that out real quick because I'm like, they're doing so much for this. And like,
(55:12):
it's so sad to see like for other like murder cases, they don't even, yeah.
I'm glad you pointed it out because I thought the same thing when I was looking into this.
Yeah. It's just because of money, you know, they're like, Oh my God, we gave away free money. We have
to look into this. Right. Crazy. Yeah. I was like, Oh, I have to make this note real quick.
(55:34):
Yeah. They also used a submarine to search the lake, Lake Mirren, which is why I found nothing though,
nothing in any of that. In the early stages of 1972, U.S. Attorney General John N. Mitchell
released the serial numbers of the money given to Cooper to the general public.
(55:58):
Two men use counterfeit $20 bills with those serial numbers to get $30,000 from a newsweek
reporter named Carl Fleming in exchange for an interview with the man they falsely acclaimed
was the hijacker, which I just thought was kind of funny. Yeah. And in early 1973,
(56:20):
their ransom money was still missing. Nothing really significant had ever popped up about the
money. So an organ journalist republished the serial numbers and offered $1,000 to the first
person to turn in a ransom bill to the newspaper or the FBI field office. In Seattle, the post
(56:42):
intelligentser made a similar offer of a $5,000 reward though. The offers remained in effect
till Thanksgiving of 1974. And though there were several near close matches, nothing was
actually found of those that were given for ransom. And an analyst of the flight data indicated
(57:07):
that the first estimated location of Cooper's landing zone was inaccurate. So they did all of
that in the wrong location, which is just so difficult. I'm sorry. All of that. So let me
guess, they redid it in a new area. Perhaps. Oh, not as much. I mean, they've been looking,
(57:35):
but it wasn't like the last second. Captain Scott, who was flying the aircraft manually
because Cooper's speed was an altitude demand, demands determined the flight path was further
east than initially reported. Additional data provided by continental airline pilot Tom Bohan,
(57:57):
who was flying for four minutes behind flight 305, led the FBI to recalculate their estimates
for Cooper's drop zone. Bohan noted that the FBI's calculations for Cooper's drop zone
were based on incorrectly recorded wind direction. And therefore the FBI's estimates were inaccurate.
There's just a lot of things to take into consideration when trying to find where he jumped
(58:23):
out, I guess. Based on Bohan's data and recalculations of the flight path, the FBI determined
Cooper's drop zone was probably over Washhawgill River watershed. There was Shoggle Valley and
the surrounding areas have been reportedly searched, but no discovery, discoveries traceable
(58:43):
to the hijacking have ever been reported. On February 10th, 1980, an eight year old, Brian Ingram,
was, was vacationing with his family on the Columbia River at beachfront, known as Tina or
Tina bar, about nine miles downstream from Vancouver, Washington and 20 miles southwest of Ariel.
(59:10):
He was like raking around in the sandy little like area in the riverbank
to build a campfire and he uncovered three packets of ransom cash, totally at $5,800.
The bills had been deteriorated from a lengthy exposure to the elements,
(59:31):
but were still bundled in rubber bands. FBI technicians confirmed the money was indeed
a portion of the ransom money, two packets of $120 bills each and a third packet of 90,
all arranged in the same order was given to Cooper. So they confirmed it was that money.
(59:55):
The discovery caused a new conjecture and ultimately raised more questions than it really
answered because they're like, well, did he get away or not? Did he bury this? Has it been
in the river? Did it flow downstream? Like, yeah, a lot of people theorized that he buried it.
Initial statements by investigators and scientific consultants were founded on the assumption that
(01:00:22):
the bundled bills washed freely into the Columbia River from one of its main connecting contributors.
An Army Corps engineer, Hydralis, noticed that the bills had deteriorated in a rounded fashion.
So like rounded out the edges a little bit and they were all matted together,
(01:00:46):
indicated that they had been deposited by river action, opposed to being buried deliberately.
So they assumed that instead of being buried, it washed down river and then eventually over time
got buried by the sand. Gotcha. Like naturally, not by a human. The findings supported the hypothesis
(01:01:11):
Cooper had landed near the Washgall River, which merges with the Columbia upstream from the discovery
site in not in or near Lake Mirren, which is where they did that. Sub-surgent and search and all that.
Yeah. The free floating hypothesis neither explained the 10,000 bills missing from the
(01:01:37):
packet nor did explain how the three packets remain together after separating from the rest of the
money. So they were like, yeah, this could happen, but like it doesn't explain how
where's the rest of the money or why did it stay together? Basically, physical evidence was inc.
Didn't he like stuff some money into a parachute though? He did. So I wonder if it fell out of that.
(01:02:03):
Yeah. And he could have just like stained in the parachute for a while and then that's a good
a good thought. See that one anywhere. So physical. Yeah.
Yeah. Sleigh physical evidence was incompatible with geological evidence. Hemmels batch row
(01:02:28):
free floating bundles would have washed up on the bank within a couple of years of the hijacking.
Otherwise the rubber bands would have long since deteriorated. So they were thinking that maybe
the money wouldn't have deteriorated, but definitely the rubber bands would have. And in 1986 after
(01:02:49):
protracted negotiations, the recovered bills were divided equally between Brian Ingram and
Northwest Orients insurers, which was the Royal Globe insurance. The FBI retained 14 examples
of evidence. So basically they divided it between all the people, the ransom money,
(01:03:09):
which I thought was funny. They said, here's your money back. Your water soaked bills.
Oh, they gave it back to the people that originally paid it. Okay. Yeah.
Ingram ended up selling 15 of his bills at an auction in 2008 for $37,000,
(01:03:31):
which was equivalent to $52,000 in 2023. Like what? It's because of the case.
But it's also crazy that they're giving this money to like do what you will
because the serial numbers and if they're like looking for a specific serial numbers out in the
(01:03:55):
public. Well, I'm sure they just took those ones out of rotation or whatever.
They're like we found these ones. They're fine now. It's just crazy.
Here's your money back. Sell them. They sold them for pretty penny. Yeah, I mean, slay.
(01:04:16):
Kitchel bag. The Columbia River ransom money remains the only confirmed physical evidence
from the hijacking found outside of the aircraft. In 2002, the FBI discovered that the hair sample
that they had had been lost. So they can't compare that to anything anymore. How do they
just lose it? I don't know. By late 2007, the FBI had built a partial DNA profile from samples
(01:04:44):
found on Cooper's tie though in 2001. However, the FBI also acknowledged no evidence linked to Cooper
to the source of the DNA sample. So they haven't found, they found DNA, but they can't find anything
that links that DNA to anybody basically. FBI Special Agent Fred Gut said that the tie had
(01:05:10):
two small DNA samples and one large sample. It's difficult to draw firm conclusions from these
samples, he said. So I don't really know if that just makes it completely useless or what, but
doesn't seem like they can use it at all. The FBI also made public a file of previously
(01:05:32):
unreleased evidence that included Cooper's airplane ticket, the composite sketch, fact sheets,
and a posted request for information about Cooper's identification.
And ultimately, the investigation ended up being suspended on July 8th of 2016
(01:05:54):
due to the need to deploy and investigate resources and manpower on issues of greater
and more urgent priority, which I think is about time in 2016, like 1971 was a long time ago. I
don't think we need to be worrying about DBQ Cooper in that capacity anymore. Like it is,
(01:06:17):
it would be cool to figure out who he was and why and all that kind of stuff. And if he survived,
during the 45 year span of its in active investigation, the FBI periodically made public
some of its working hypothesis and tentative conclusions drawn from witness testimonies and
(01:06:38):
some of the physical evidence found conclusive evidence of Cooper's death has not been found.
And it's highly debated between investigators if Cooper survived the jump or not, which,
you know, like there's no evidence saying he did, there's no really evidence saying he didn't.
There was no body found and he wasn't found. So yeah, kind of hard to say one way or another.
(01:07:02):
Yeah. In the months after Cooper's hijacking, five men attempted copycat hijackings and all five
survived their parachute escapes. What? All five of them. So in my opinion, I think it's highly
likely likely he survived that jump. Well, I can't talk, especially if he was like so familiar with
(01:07:26):
the parachutes. All right. But also what? Five other men? Five. Attempted? And they all survived.
It's an attempt though. Did they get ransom money? They didn't get away. Oh, by. Yeah,
they were not as calculated as he was. They did not get away. They were found.
And then Cap showed. So like I said, the survival of the copycats and some of the circumstances
(01:07:57):
were similar to like the conditions of Cooper's jump did kind of force FBI to think that he
maybe have survived the jump, contrary to believing that he died, you know, because I think for a
long time they just were looking for his body basically, you know, yeah. This crime remains
(01:08:20):
the only documented unsolved case in commercial aviation history. All right. So that one was
a little bit different. What were your thoughts on that one? I like it. I like it. I like it a lot.
It is different and it's kind of in my realm of things because I like aviation. Yeah.
Um, but I also think it's really fucked up. Yeah. That they spent all that time
(01:08:46):
doing investigations on the case, but they don't do that for murder cases. So.
Do you think he survived? I do. I think so too. And like I said, there was a lot of
people that they did interview in connection to this case, but nothing
um, to like tie anybody to this case. So all of them were just theories and you know, suspects.
(01:09:14):
So I didn't really feel the need to include them because there was a huge list and
none of them really fit it. So yeah, but it is crazy. I, um, I think it's a cool, not cool. Like
I don't think you should do it, but I think it's crazy that he was able to pull it off.
Um, well in today's world, you definitely couldn't. No, no, no, no, but back then,
(01:09:37):
yeah, they just had like no rules or regulations on flying on airlines, nothing crazy. I mean,
you look from what happened with 9 11, everything that we have now, TSA, security,
like all the identification stems from them. Right. And that was in 2011. Yeah. 2001.
(01:10:04):
Yeah. It's not 11 yet. I know. I knew that 2000. I was like, 2011 is way too soon. 2001. Yeah.
Crazy shit, man. Well, we'd love to hear you guys's theory on the case of D.B. Cooper. If you
have any thoughts or theories, put them in the comment section below. We'd love to hear
(01:10:27):
and discuss them with you. Other than that, I'm going to take my happy little ass to bed because
I'm stoned to the bone and I hope you guys are too. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Thank you,
queen. Thank you. Until next time, stay high, stay safe and thank you for listening, watching,
(01:10:48):
watching, watching and listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, both. Doses.
Hey guys, thanks for watching. If you enjoyed the show, please like, subscribe and hit the
notification bell so you know when we drop our next episode. If you want to see more of the host
Kai, follow her at chronic chaos on all socials. Also, follow Queen Reefer at Queen Reefer on
(01:11:11):
all socials. And if you'd like, catch her on Twitch where she streams Monday and Friday.
Happy 420, I'm Kai and I'm Queen Reefer and you're watching Stone Cold Murder. Just a PSA,
(00:06):
if you have any information to help solve a crime, you can go to Crimestoppers.com to report any
information anonymously. This podcast contains material that might not be suitable for all
audiences. Viewer discretion is advised. Welcome back to Stone Cold Murder, season 3, episode 7.
(00:30):
How are you? I'm doing good, how are you? I'm doing well, real well.
Are you doing well? Yeah, as you can tell.
I think. Can you? Does that help? Now that looks scared.
(00:54):
I love that your eyes are like this and then you tried to open them even wider and your body
tends to look like this. Like it was going to open it anyway. She said, can you see them? Homegirl
just squared up on y'all. Here we fight. No, I took like 50 milligrams of edibles, which is kind
(01:19):
of light for me, but. But then you also took two dabs. So. Yeah, and I've been smoking on the pen
too. So the Benjamin Franklin. So I'm nice and stoned. Hell yeah. Yeah. I'm nice and
like wheeled up. Like, whoa. Did you like drink it with some soda? I know. Some Cissor.
(01:46):
I was in channeling my little and a little and a little.
Be either.
I didn't say it. I said it not once, but twice.
And get out. I'm channeling my little and.
(02:19):
I'm channeling my inner little Wayne.
So you weren't channeling your inner little Wayne or you said you were.
I was not. I thought I was going to mess it up. She said, did you channel?
(02:53):
I hate it.
You. Well, this case is not a murder case, but Kai.
We're stone cold murder. I know. I know. This was a potential murder. Like this could have been
(03:16):
a murder and it is a cold case, but it's not a murder case. So it's a little different than
our normal case. We cover. Okay. What do you think? Should we get into it? No, I think we should not
(03:36):
do this case. Just kidding. No, I'm ready. It's time to wrap up and get out of here. Thanks for
coming to the episode. Until next time. Stay high. No, we're going to do it.
All right. Yeah, I'm ready. I did. You know why?
(03:58):
Insert last week's clip. Are you ready? I'm ready because you know what? If you stay ready,
you don't got to get ready because you're already ready. Stay hard. Stay hard.
Oh, honey. I do.
(04:23):
Oh, God, you guys are in for a treat. Maybe. Speaking of treats, go grab one.
Hmm. Your favorite baby. It's time to dive in. I'm about to dive in. Our story starts out on
(04:44):
the afternoon of November 24, 1971 at the Northwest Orient Airlines in Portland,
Oregon. The flight was going to Seattle, Washington. And while he was waiting for the flight to take
off, he ordered a bourbon and soda to drink. The flight left Portland on time or left for
Portland on time at 2.50 PM Pacific Standard Time and was set to make an on time arrival in Seattle.
(05:14):
Shortly after takeoff, Cooper handed a note to the flight attendant who was sitting in the jump
seat at the rear of the airplane behind where Dan was seated. Assuming the note was like his
number or something, she kind of just took it and put it in her purse. And Mr. Cooper then
leaned towards her and whispered, Hey, miss, you'd better look at that note. I have a bomb.
(05:39):
She then went ahead and opened the note. Obviously a little concerned now that it wasn't
actually his number. But I could imagine as a flight attendant, you probably get that quite
often. So I probably wouldn't have read the note either. I don't blame her for just crumbling it up.
The note in all cap letters said, Miss, I have a bomb in my briefcase, and I want you to sit by me.
(06:09):
Ew. Yeah. Isn't that gross? Miss Schaffner was the flight attendant. She went ahead and returned
the note to Mr. Cooper and sat down next to him as he requested. She then quietly asked to see the
bomb, which I thought was a bold move of hers, because I don't know if I would ask. I mean,
(06:32):
I guess for rarefication, but I thought that was bold. Yeah. He opened the briefcase and she saw
what looked like two rows of four red cylinders, and she thought they were dynamite. Wait, what year
was this? 1971. Okay. Checks. Yeah. I was like, if this is recent, what the fuck? No, not very recent.
(06:58):
Cool. This checks. Yeah. We're good. I mean, we're not good, but it makes more sense.
Cooper closed the briefcase and told the attendant that he had demands, and if she followed them,
they wouldn't get hurt. She wrote a note with all of his requests and brought it to the flight deck
and informed the crew of the situation. Captain Scott directed her to remain in the flight deck
(07:21):
for the remainder of the flight and take notes of everything as they happened. With Schaffner in
the flight deck, a different flight attendant, Miss Muclough, sat next to Cooper to act as a middle
man between him and the other flight crew members. After all of Mr. Cooper's demands were noted,
the pilot then relayed to Northwest Flight Operations in Minnesota the hijackers' demands.
(07:48):
Cooper requests 200,000 in a knapsack by 5 p.m. He wants two front parachutes, two back parachutes,
and he wants the money in negotiable American currency. By requesting these two parachutes,
it's theorized that it was to discourage them from messing with the parachutes,
(08:16):
because he could take a hostage, basically. He asked for four parachutes. They can't all be for him.
You know, two of them are probably for him. And then he requested two more. So...
Did they just have parachutes stacked on the plane?
No, but that was his demand that he wanted one and money.
(08:41):
How would he use a parachute if there's no parachute on the plane?
No, no, no. He's negotiating to get a parachute and money.
But how is he going to get a parachute?
Well, I'll tell you.
Well, it makes no sense. It's a hijack.
Yeah, but they don't got parachute on board, so they're going to land,
(09:03):
grab a parachute, and go back up in the air?
Yeah, they are.
Okay, I'm many. They can know I'm me.
So yeah, so the theory is that by asking for an additional front and back parachute,
that he was going to take a hostage with him. So that discouraged anybody for the people that
was giving him the parachute from like messing with it so that he wouldn't like die. You know what
(09:28):
I mean? Because they didn't know which parachute he was going to get, basically.
Cooper also demanded that when they land at Sea Tech, there were to be fuel trucks to meet the
plane and all the passengers were to remain seated while Miss Mucklow brought the money aboard.
He would release the passengers after he had the money. The last items brought aboard would be
(09:50):
four parachutes. Scott informed Sea Tech Air traffic control of the situation,
and they contacted Seattle Police Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, so the FBI
of the situation at hand. Because honestly, like, I don't feel like in this time, there was a whole
lot of like plane hijackings going on. And this one is pretty calculated. Like he did a really good
(10:18):
job of like blending in all the way to getting into the air and then demanding his wants, you know?
Well, and also like back in this time, too, there was a lot of security. Of course. With like
airplanes and airports and all that stuff, which is crazy. Yeah, you can get away with a whole
(10:41):
lot more for sure. Passengers were told their arrival in Seattle would be delayed because of
a minor mechanical difficulty, which was smart on their end to not alert the passengers. Yeah,
not make them all scared. Right. Yeah. Sorry. It's okay. Donald Nyrob, the President of Northwest
(11:02):
at the time, authorized payment of the ransom and ordered all employees to cooperate with the
hijacker and comply with his demands. And that's where we'll take our first smoke break.
And this smoke break is brought to you by jugs.
(11:32):
And we're back for approximately two hours flight 305 circled the airport. So that's a
long fucking time to two hours, two hours. They said, Oh, did the passengers just think they were
(11:53):
just still in there? Yeah, they just thought they couldn't land because of the mechanical
difficulties or whatever. Crazy, right? So this gave the police department and the FBI enough time
to get Cooper's ransom money and the parachutes and to gather the proper emergency personnel
(12:17):
for the job. During the flight from Portland to Seattle, Cooper demanded that Miss Mucklough
remain by his side at all times. And she later said that Cooper appeared familiar with the local
terrain, which I thought was interesting. She said that when he looked out the plane window,
he kind of like recognized the places he was seeing. So familiar with the area.
(12:43):
She also said that he was not nervous and he was rather nice and he was not cruel or nasty.
So I guess that's nice. While the plane circled Seattle, Miss Mucklough chatted with Cooper
and asked why he chose Northwest Airlines to hijack. Which is interesting. I don't know if I
(13:05):
would be like talking to him much, but maybe that's me being introverted. Yeah, maybe she's also just
nervous. Yeah. Trying to like maybe lighten the mood with him or something. I don't know.
I have a hard time making small talks. Same.
Me being me. Me too. He laughed and replied, it's not because I have a grudge against your
(13:28):
airlines. It's because I have a grudge. And then he explained the flight was simply,
it just simply suited his needs. Meanwhile, the $200,000 ransom was received from Seattle's
first national bank and the money was $100,000 or $10,000 unmarked $20 bills,
(13:53):
most of which had the serial number beginning with L so that they could track it later on.
Around a 524 Pacific Standard Time, Scott was informed, which was the pilot,
that the parachutes had been delivered to C-Tech and notified Cooper that they would be landing
soon at 546. The flight flight 305 landed at C-Tech with Cooper's permission. Scott
(14:21):
parked the aircraft on a partially lit runway away from the main terminal, which as a passenger, I
would be probably, do you think you would think something was up or I guess maybe not? Maybe
not. Since it was like a mechanical issue and maybe they're like, oh, we have to park over here for
maintenance or something? Yeah, I guess. Cooper demanded only one representative of the airline
(14:46):
approached the plane with the parachutes and the money. And the only entrance and exit would be
through the aircraft's front door via mobile stairs. Northwest Seattle operations manager,
Al Lee, was designated to be the carrier. To avoid the possibility of Cooper mistaking Lee's airline
uniform for law enforcement, he just changed into regular civilian clothes. So smart. He could
(15:11):
avoid all of that. Yeah. I think it's smart too. All the passengers remained seated and a ground
crew attached a mobile staircase. Cooper told Ms. Mucklau to exit the aircraft through the front
door and retrieve the ransom money. When she returned, she immediately went straight to the
back where he was sitting and carried the money to pass all, just straight past all the other
(15:36):
passengers. Cooper then agreed to release the passengers. And as they got off the aircraft,
Mr. Cooper remained seated and he just inspected the money, making sure nothing was like placed in
the bag. Does it say anything about the passengers like being sassy about the whole situation?
Because there was one instance where they said a guy got a little irritated, but when they further
(16:02):
investigated it, the flight attendant said he wasn't irritated. He just was asking for a different
magazine. So I guess everybody remained fairly calm in the situation and didn't raise any suspicion,
which I thought was interesting. And maybe because it's the 70s, because I mean, flying back then was
like fancy kind of wasn't it still? I don't know. But I feel like if I saw someone coming, carrying in
(16:31):
a bag of money, I'm dropping it off and being like, everybody get off. I'll be like,
yeah, I would be weirded out for sure too. I'm not going to lie. I would definitely suspect something.
So Mrs. Mucklough was trying to joke around with Mr. Cooper to just try to like lighten the
(16:54):
tension a little bit. And she asked him if she could have some of the money, which I thought was
a boss ass move. And he actually agreed and he handed her a packet of bills. It's like, here you go.
And, but she like said no. And she said, no, we can't take tiff. So she didn't take any of the
(17:16):
money. And I thought that was funny. She said it was against company policy. That is funny.
What a boss ass move though, with the passengers safely off the plane, only Cooper and the six
crew members stayed on while Mucklough brought aboard the parachutes, Schaffner, which was the
other like the original flight attendant that he gave that note to ask Cooper if she could retrieve
(17:40):
her purse that was stored in the compartment behind his seat. He agreed and told her, I won't bite.
And she and a different flight attendant Hancock then asked Cooper if the flight attendants could
just leave. And he replied, whatever you, whatever you girls would like to do. So Hancock and Schaffner
(18:04):
piece the fuck out of here. Yeah, I was not saying, which I don't believe I would do. I'd be like,
all right, fuck that shit. I'm out not staying around for the shit. When Mucklough, Mucklough,
I'm sorry. I don't know if this Mucklough or Mucklough. Mucklough brought the final parachute
to Cooper. She gave him printed instructions for using the parachutes to which he said,
(18:31):
I don't need those. So it seems like he kind of knew what he was doing with the parachutes,
which we'll just note that a problem with the refueling process caused a delay. So a second
truck and then a third truck was brought in to actually refuel the airplane before they were
(18:52):
able to take off. But during this delay, it was said that Cooper complained that the money was
delivered in the wrong kind of bag and he wanted a, it was delivered in a cloth bag instead of like
a knapsack that he asked for. So he had to now improvise and transport the money in a different
(19:13):
way. So he used his pocket knife to cut open like pieces of the canopy of one of the reserve parachutes.
And stuffed the money into like the empty parachute bag instead, which is an interesting move,
but it seemed like he had a reason for it. He then gave the flight deck crew his flight plan
(19:36):
and directives. They were to fly Southeast course towards Mexico City at the minimum
airspeed possible without stalling the aircraft, which was approximately a hundred knots.
That's slow for playing. Yeah. And a maximum 10,000 foot altitude. For a commercial size plane.
(20:02):
Yeah. Cooper also specified that the landing gear must remain deployed.
You know why that probably is. Why? I mean, I don't know how it is back then,
but I'm almost wondering if, if they're above a certain amount of feet and a certain amount of
speed, then it's easier to like track like those are tracking something. I think it's
(20:25):
partly that and also partly, he wants to be able to jump out of the plane too. Yeah.
Like I think it's both things. So Cooper specified that the landing gear must remain deployed.
The wing flaps must be lowered at a 15 degree angle and the cabin must remain unpressurized.
(20:46):
So we can jump out. Uh huh. First officer Ratizak informed Cooper that the configuration
limited the aircraft's range to about 1000 miles. So a second refueling would it be necessary
before they entered Mexico? Would be necessary. Yes. Cooper and the crew discussed options and
(21:09):
then they all agreed on refueling in Reno, Tahoe international airport. Cooper further directed
the aircraft takeoff with the rear exit door open and the staircase extended, which
interesting as fuck. Yeah. Northwest officials objected for reasons of safety,
(21:33):
but Cooper countered it by saying it can be done. So do it. But then after that,
he didn't really insist any further and that he said that he would just go ahead and lower the
staircase once they're airborne. He also demanded that Mucklow remain aboard to assist in the
operation. So unfortunately she didn't get to peace out of there with the rest of them.
(21:58):
Around 740 PM flight 305 took off with Cooper, Mucklow, Scott, Ratizak and flight engineer
Anderson aboard two FO6 fighters from the cord Air Force Base and a Lockheed T33 trainer followed
it 727, which I guess was the flight or the aircraft. Yeah. So you know what you're talking about.
(22:28):
That's kind of why I thought you would like this case too.
Saga wings. This is all the Red Bull you drink.
Oh yeah. Hey Red Bull sponsors. Give us wings. I drink Red Bull twice a day.
(22:50):
But I'm not lying about that. I really do. She's not lying. I really love Red Bull.
All three jets maintain an S flight pattern to stay behind the slow moving 727 and out of
Cooper's view, which I thought had to be a crazy sight. Like I know they couldn't see it, but I
like could imagine that was so weird. Interesting. Yeah. After takeoff, Cooper told Mucklow to lower
(23:18):
the staircase. She told him that the flight, or she told him and the flight crew that she feared
being sucked out of the aircraft, which like valid, I would fear the exact same thing. Yeah. The
flight crew suggested that she come to the flight deck and retrieve an emergency rope to tie herself
(23:40):
to a seat. But Cooper actually rejected the suggestion and he said that he did not want her
going up front or the other crew members to come back to where they were. But she obviously continued
to like express her fear and she just kind of was like, well, can you cut some rope from the parachute
(24:01):
to like help me? Because I'm scared that I'm going to fall out of this thing. And he eventually said
that he was just going to go ahead and do it himself. So he instructed her to go back to the
flight deck and he didn't want her there. Yeah. He was just like, fuck it. I'm going to just do it.
And he's like, close the curtain petition between the coach in the first class and don't come back.
(24:28):
Cooper, what? Yeah. I don't want you back. So before she left, she begged Cooper, please,
please, please, please, please, please take that bomb with you to which he responded. Yeah,
I'll either disarm it or I'll take it with me. And she walked to the flight deck and returned
to close the curtain partition. She saw Cooper standing in the aisle trying to what appeared to
(24:55):
be like tying the money bag around his waist. I guess preparing to jump from the time Mucklau
entered the flight deck and takeoff was only five minutes in between. So it wasn't much time. Yeah,
that passed. For the rest of the flight to Reno, Mucklau remained in the flight deck
(25:21):
and she was the last person to actually see Cooper. At around 8pm, a light started to flash in the
flight deck indicating that the staircase had been deployed. The pilot used the plane's intercom
to ask Cooper if he needed assistance, but his last words were simple, no. And at 8.13pm,
(25:46):
the aircraft's back sections suddenly pulled upward, forcing the pilots to adjust and return
to a normal flight level. The crew remained in the flight deck for the rest of the flight,
so they weren't sure exactly when he jumped from the plane or if he even had when they landed.
They used the intercom to inform Cooper that they were approaching the Reno airport
(26:10):
and that he needed to raise the stairs so that the airplane could safely land. They tried this a
few times as the pilots made a final approach to land, so they tried to contact him a few times
and he never answered. And at 11.02pm, the staircase with the staircase still deployed, Flight 305
(26:35):
landed at Reno Tahoe International Airport. A perimeter was set around the aircraft with FBI
agents, state troopers, sheriff deputies, and Reno Police Department. And of course, no one was
like entirely sure if he had jumped off the plane or not, so they were being extra cautious.
(26:56):
And if he did, did he take the bomb with him or were they still at risk of maybe a major
explosion here? The aircraft was searched and they confirmed Cooper was no longer aboard.
And 30 minutes later, an FBI bomb squad declared that the aircraft was safe from explosion.
As they searched the plane, they found Cooper's black clip on tie, a tie clip,
(27:24):
so not the same thing, but a tie and a tie clip, and two of the four parachutes,
one of which was the one that had been cut open and that money stuffed into the bag.
During the forensic search of the aircraft, FBI agents found four major pieces of evidence with
(27:45):
direct physical link to Cooper. It was that black clip on tie that had a mother of pearl
tie clip on it, a hair from Cooper's headrest, and eight filtered tip rally cigarette butts from
the armrest ashtray. Well, I forgot that. Jesus fuck. I forgot that was a thing back then.
(28:09):
You could smoke on the planes. That was like huge too back then. That'd be wild, man.
Ew. I love cigarettes, but I don't think I want to fly with a bunch of cigarettes.
FBI agents found a black clip on tie in seat 18E where Cooper had been seated.
Attached to the tie was the gold tie clip with the circular mother of pearl in the center of the
(28:35):
clip, which pop off. That's nice. Slay, slay, Cooper. The FBI determined that the tie had been sold
exclusively at J.C. Appinney department stores and had been discontinued in 1968,
so three years, four years prior. Two hair samples in Cooper's seat were found,
(29:04):
a single strand of limb hair on the seat, which I assume is either arm hair or leg hair,
and a single strand of brown, Caucasian head hair on the headrest.
The limb hair, unfortunately, was destroyed by the FBI crime laboratory because it was determined to
(29:25):
be lacking enough unique microscopic characteristics to be useful, so they didn't need to keep it around.
However, the FBI crime laboratory did determine that the head hair was suitable for future
comparisons and they preserved that on a microscope slide. In the armrest ashtray of
(29:48):
seat 18E, FBI agents found eight rally filter-tipped cigarette butts. The butts were actually sent to
the FBI crime laboratory, but investigators were unable to find fingerprints and returned the
butts to Las Vegas field office. But the boots, I touched the butt, but additionally, they were
(30:16):
able to lift 66 fingerprints from the cabin area. At this time, it was assumed that the man that
jumped out of the plane used a fake name, which I would assume too, you didn't really need that
security. You didn't really need your ID back then, so you could use a fake name. You know what I mean?
(30:40):
And there's no way of tracing people down. Nowadays, like...
Yeah, you're not getting away with that. Well, you may get lucky, but it's not happening like this.
They did assume that he was using a fake name. FBI agents interviewed some of the eyewitnesses
from Portland, Seattle, and Reno, and they were able to develop a series of composite sketches.
(31:08):
The first sketch, Composite A, was released on November 28, 1971, and according to the
witnesses, the composite A sketch was jokingly known as being Crosby, because it looked kind
of like Bill Crosby. Crosby, not Crosby. And it was not an accurate description of Cooper at all,
(31:37):
so it was kind of just a jokey joke. But the Composite A sketch showed a young man with a
narrow face, and it did not resemble Cooper or capture his disinterested look. Like, let's get
it over. Oh, let's get this over. Holy shit. His disinterested look, because they said he always
(32:02):
looked like, let's get this over with type of a look. So my look. Yeah. A resting bitch face.
They said it didn't capture that. Slay. Yeah. His mother of pearl and his disinterested look.
He's a queen, for sure. Flight attendants Florence Schaffner repeatedly told the FBI
(32:23):
agents that the composite A sketch was a very poor likeness of Cooper. So after multiple
eyewitnesses said that that sketch was not an accurate rendering of him, they decided that
they were going to go ahead and develop a second sketch. Yeah, as they should. So this one was
(32:43):
completed in late 1972. Composite B sketch was intended to depict a more accurate age of Cooper
and his skin tone and face shape better. Composite B was more accurate, but Cooper looked too angry
(33:04):
or nasty. Okay. Yeah, I feel like these are just facial expressions. They're like, like, does it
look accurate? He looked too nasty. One flight attendant said that the composite B sketch looked
like a hoodlum and he was and he remembered Cooper as more of a refined appearance. So.
(33:32):
Well, yeah, I mean, I could see probably that if he had a pearl. A mother of pearl.
A mother of pearl around his neck.
Crasping my pearls. Oh, my pearls. Composite V sketch depicted an older man,
a man older than Cooper with a lighter complexion, they said. So using the criticisms from this
(33:59):
now V sketch, the FBI artists made another adjustment and improved composite V sketch.
Jesus. Either anything you'd like more accurate, like descriptions from the witnesses or they
need a new artist. Something. Because what the fuck? What the fuck? On January 2nd, 1973,
(34:23):
the FBI finalized revised composite B, their third sketch of Cooper. One flight attendant said the
revised composite B was a very close resemblance to the hijacker. So this was the best they got.
In April of 1973, the FBI concluded the revised composite B sketch.
(34:48):
And they said that this was the best that they could do. So the flight attendants Schaeffner
and Muklau, who spent the most time interacting with Cooper were interviewed on the same night
in separate cities and gave nearly identical descriptions of the man. A man in his mid 40s,
approximately five foot, five foot 10 inches tall and 100 to 170 to 180 pounds with olive toned skin,
(35:18):
brown eyes and short combed back black hair with no discernible accent. In May of 1973,
the FBI and initially internally released an eight page suspect profile of Mr. Cooper. So this is
what they assumed there's who they were looking for. Yeah. All right. The profile suggests Cooper
(35:46):
was military trained, parachutist and not a sports skydiver. And if he was in the sports
skydiving community, they would more recognize him because of his age. So it was likely that that
was not where he got that training. Multiple eyewitnesses noticed that noted Cooper's athletic
(36:11):
build. So the FBI profile suggested that Cooper probably exercised regularly, regularly despite
his age. They suspected that Cooper was an Air Force veteran familiar with Seattle and the
surrounding areas. Cooper recognized Tacoma as the jet circled, Pudget Sound and in his conversations
(36:34):
with Muklau, Cooper correctly noted Mukkord AFB's proximity to Seattle Tacoma Airport,
which was the military base. And he had details which most civilians would not be familiar with.
(36:55):
So that's kind of what made them have that thought. His mannerisms and vocabulary,
his way of planning through the retrieval of the evidence, such as the money and the parachutes,
and his use of aviation terminology really led the FBI to conclude
(37:18):
Cooper was not just a common criminal. Cooper was clearly intelligent, not impulsive,
or easily rattled. He was very careful and procedure oriented. He was a planner,
adept and anticipating contingencies and adaptive strategies. And with meticulous,
(37:41):
he was meticulous and methodical in his tendencies as well. Just a lot of words for he was very
organized. It reminds me of when I have to write a paper for school and it has to be a
certain amount of words. Yeah. No, I did not write that. That was literally from the FBI's
(38:02):
profile. So it wasn't me just like, oh, he was these things. That was like, this is the type
of man we're looking for. So just so you know, it wasn't me. Profiles. It wasn't me, I promise.
Profilers also noted Cooper's ability to quickly adapt to various situations as they arose indicated
(38:28):
that he probably preferred to work independently and neither needed nor wanted an accomplice.
Cooper's financial situation was probably desperate according to retired FBI chief investigator Ralph
Himmels-Batch. He said that most criminals who steal large amount of money nearly always do so
(38:49):
because they urgently need it. Otherwise, the crime is not worth the risk, basically,
which makes sense. The FBI considered, but ultimately dismissed the possibility that Cooper
was a thrill seeker who made the jump just to prove that it could be done, which I don't think
(39:10):
that was the case really. I'm not sure why he did it, but I don't really think that was the case.
By calculating the number of cigarettes that Cooper smoked throughout the hijacking,
the FBI believed that Cooper smoked about one pack of cigarettes a day.
Damn. Yeah. I thought I was like, oh, shit.
(39:32):
Agents theorized that Cooper's alias was based on like a comic hero called Dan Cooper. The main
character was popular in French language and it was a Belgian comic series, basically.
One cover actually depicted Dan Cooper skydiving. So that's kind of why they assumed.
(39:55):
Yeah. Because the Dan Cooper comics were neither translated to English nor imported to the United
States, FBI profilers speculated that the hijacker encountered them during either like a European
tour tour on duty and that he probably spoke fluent, French, French, French. Well, apparently you
(40:17):
don't speak fluent English. He apparently spoke fluent French is what I was actually trying to say,
but can't come out of my mouth. Knowledge and planning based on the evidence and Cooper's
tactics, the FBI speculated that Cooper planned the hijacking carefully using detailed and specific
(40:43):
knowledge of aviation, the local train and the seven to sevens capabilities, which all makes sense.
Cooper chose the seat in the very last row in the rear cabin for three reasons.
So they thought it was to observe and to respond to any action in front of him,
(41:03):
to minimize the possibility of being approached or attacked by someone behind him,
and to make himself less conspicuous to the rest of the passengers, which all makes sense.
To ensure he would not be deliberately supplied with the sabotage equipment like we talked about
earlier, Cooper demanded the four parachutes to force the assumption that he may take a hostage
(41:29):
to jump. So the FBI also figured that out too. FBI agent Ralph Hemselbatch noted Cooper's choice
of bomb instead of other weapons previously used by hijackers. This actually helped eliminate
attempts to rush him. Yeah, which makes sense. Yeah. So he'd be like, well, you know, like a gun
(41:50):
or a knife, someone could rush you, but like a bomb, you're not going to try and rush a bomb.
You're just going to blow up. There's no chance of surviving that.
And not to mention like a ninth yard could like hurt or kill a couple of people, but like a plane
full of passengers, like you can easily like detain him. Right. He was also very careful to avoid any
(42:13):
evidence being left behind. And before he jumped, Cooper demanded that the flight attendant,
flight attendant, my God, God damn, Cooper demanded that the flight attendant, Ms. Mucklau,
return to him all of the notes that either were written by him or about what was going down.
(42:34):
They were all to be returned to him. And that he said,
Mucklau said that she used the last match in his paper matchbook to light one of his cigarettes.
And that when she attempted to throw away the packet, he wanted that trash. So he didn't let
her throw that away either. He thought this all out. Uh huh. He had it all thought out. I know,
(42:58):
which is crazy. Like this is crazy. Although Cooper meticulously attempted to retrieve all
of his evidence he did leave behind that tie, the tie clip and all those cigarettes. So
he was clearly familiar with the 727s capability and the confidential features.
(43:23):
The 727 design was primarily the primary reason that Cooper chose the aircraft
because of the staircase that they had the placement of the three engines.
And the 727 was one of the only passenger jets from which a parachute jump could be easily made.
So Mucklau told the FBI, Cooper appeared to be familiar with the, uh, with the 727s typical
(43:50):
refueling time and procedures. So it seemed like he had knowledge. Yeah. By specifying the 15 degree
flap setting, Cooper displayed specific knowledge of aviation tactics and the 727s capabilities.
And unlike most commercial jet airliners, the 727 could remain in a low,
(44:14):
a slow, low altitude flight, uh, altitude flight without stalling. So it seemed like he knew that
also. Did they ever look into like pilots as well? They did. Okay. Cause I was going to say
that could also make sense. Maybe he didn't have the military background, but if he was like a
previous pilot, that would make sense of why he would be also familiar with like his surroundings
(44:36):
in the sky. Yeah. And I'll be honest, they looked into a lot of fucking people. I did not put a
lick of any of them in here because there was so many people and none of them have been convicted
of it. So I just kind of left that out. But they interviewed from 1971, um,
all the way to 2016. Jesus. Tons of people. Okay. Just every year. So the flap setting,
(45:05):
Cooper specifically requested, allowed him to control the, uh, the 727s airspeed and altitude
without entering the flight deck where he could have been easily overpowered by the people inside.
First officer, Bill or Rada Zach, who spoke with Cooper on the intercom during the hijacking,
(45:26):
told the FBI that Cooper displayed a specific knowledge of flying and aircraft and aircrafts
in general. The most significant knowledge Cooper displayed was a, was a feature both secret and
unique to the 727. The aft stair case could be operated during the flight and excuse me,
(45:51):
and the single activation switch in the rear of the cabin could not be overridden from the flight
deck. So he knew that. That's weird. Isn't that crazy? Why would that even be a feature? I don't
know. But it was unique to that model of the plane only. That doesn't even make sense. You would
think any like control would be from the flight deck. Uh huh. So he knew how to operate that aft
(46:16):
staircase and had clearly planned to use it for his escape. The FBI speculated that Cooper
knew the central intelligence agency was using the 727s to drop agents and supplies into the
image and the enemy territory during the Vietnam war. So that's how he knew that all of this could
(46:38):
be done since no situation on most civilian flights would like cause a need for this.
Civilian crews were neither informed of the, the air stair situation that it could be lowered from
the back mid-flight, nor were they aware that the operation could be overridden, could not be overridden
(47:02):
from the flight deck. Yeah. Which yeah, I feel like you don't want that in the public. No, you
really don't. It's smart that they didn't know that. Cooper appeared, appeared to be familiar
with parachutes, although his experience level was completely unknown because we don't know who he
was. McLeo said that Cooper appeared to be completely familiar with the parachutes that had been given
(47:25):
to him and told a journalist, Cooper put on his parachute as if he knew he put it on every day
like he knew what he was doing. He had no trouble doing it. Cooper's familiarity with the military
style parachute he was given has resulted in the speculation that Cooper was a military parachutist
(47:50):
and not a civilian skydiver. So all that just to say that we still think he's in the military.
Basically just a long-winded explanation as to why. Which I like, I like that. Honestly,
because there's a lot of cases where they don't give you any information at all to even like,
(48:12):
so you can even like trace to be like, how did you get to this conclusion? So I would like this.
Yeah, it was nice that they had this. This is fortunately one of those big cases that people
are like, what the fuck? Yeah. So they had a lot of information, but you don't get so lucky on everyone.
Local police and FBI agents immediately began questioning possible suspects, looking from in
(48:34):
that fit this suspect description and looking into the possibility that he may have actually used his
real name. So they were looking for not only the suspect maybe using an alias, but also maybe he did
use his name for whatever reason. I don't think so, but you know, might as well try. Doesn't hurt.
Yeah. Another like area of trouble that they ran into with investigating this case was that they
(49:01):
couldn't really find the area in which he dropped specifically because they didn't know where he jumped
out. Wasn't there planes following them though? Yes. So the planes didn't know when he jumped?
Right. That's crazy, right? That's weird. It was night. So perhaps, but yeah. I thought that was
(49:26):
weird too. And with someone jumping out of a plane like that, there's so many different
possibilities as to what could have happened. That's what kind of made it hard looking for a
landing spot and the jets airspeed estimates varied. The environmental conditions changed
along with the flight path also varied and then aircrafts, location and altitude. And not only that,
(49:55):
Cooper was the only one that knew how long he remained in the like free fall before he pulled
that parachute, which could determine where you land also. And the F06 pilots that you were talking
about that were following them, neither saw anyone jumping from the airliner, airliner,
nor did their radar detect a deployed parachute, which is crazy. Yeah. But like I said, it was at
(50:25):
nights when all this happened. So a man in all black jumping into the night would be fairly
difficult. But also I feel like the radar like wouldn't detect that because if he's free falling
for a little bit, right? Right. Before pulling the parachute, then it's like, I would think so too.
That's not going to really show up. On December 6, 1971, FBI director J Edgar Hoover approved the
(50:50):
use of Air Force SR 71 Blackbird to retrace and photograph flight 305s flight pass and attempt
to locate the items Cooper carried during his jump. The SR 71 made five flights to retrace flight 305s
route. But due to poor visibility, the photography attempts were unsuccessful. In an experimental
(51:16):
recreation, flying the same aircraft used in the hijacking in the same flight configuration,
the FBI agents pushed out a 200 pound sled out of the plane and were able to reproduce that
upward motion tail section and brief exchange in the cabin pressure described by that flight crew
(51:39):
that happened at 813 PM. So they think maybe that's when he jumped? Yeah. Because of that
whoosh. Yeah. That change of pressure and stuff. FBI agents and sheriff deputies searched large
areas and largely forested terrain on foot and by helicopter. They did door to door searches
(52:00):
of local farmhouses. Other search parties ran patrol boats along Lake Murin and Yale Lake
and the reservoir to its east. And despite all of these efforts, nothing of any significance was
ever found in these searches. Using a fixed wing aircraft and helicopters from Oregon Army National
(52:23):
Guard, the FBI coordinated an aerial search along the entire flight path from Seattle to Reno.
And again, nothing of relevance popped up from this hijacking at all. And in the spring of 1972,
teams of FBI agents and 200 soldiers from Fort Lewis along with the United States Air Force,
(52:48):
the National Guard and civilian volunteers did another thorough ground search in the Clark
and Cowlitz counties for 18 days in March and then another 18 days in April. Can I just pause
real quick? Yeah. This is so crazy. I get them wanting to look this crazy and this hard on a
(53:12):
case like this because it's like a hijacking. A hijacking. But let's be so for real. If they did
this amount of investigating and searching and all of this on some of these murder cases,
they would be salt. Yeah. Because they're going like above and beyond. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What did
(53:33):
that say? Um, FBI, 200 soldiers along with the United States Air Force, the National Guard and
civilian volunteers. Yeah. What? You know what? They'll use the excuse. Well, there's so many
murders. We couldn't do that for everybody. I mean, I'm not saying you have to have the National
(53:58):
Guard civilian like United States Air Force. I'm just saying do the bare minimum. That bare minimum.
Because the last case we talked about, they didn't switch it to a missing person's case until
years later. It's like that is not the bare minimum. No, it's too late. It's too late. It's way too
(54:20):
late at that point. Yeah. It's like you might as well have signed their death warrant at that
point. And that seems a little harsh because it's like, Oh, well, you can't blame them for the death.
No, I'm not blaming them for the death. I'm blaming you for not doing your fucking job.
And you may think that you're doing your job, but you have not. Period. Not in all of these cases.
There's some cases that have done some thorough investigating, but it's cases like John Bona
(54:46):
Ramsey, but still not solved. You know what I mean? Yeah. But why, why was her case so significant?
Because people made a stink about it for no reason, but you can't make a stink for everyone, but
there should be, you know, there should be, there should be. And it's like their job to do so.
I just had to point that out real quick because I'm like, they're doing so much for this. And like,
(55:12):
it's so sad to see like for other like murder cases, they don't even, yeah.
I'm glad you pointed it out because I thought the same thing when I was looking into this.
Yeah. It's just because of money, you know, they're like, Oh my God, we gave away free money. We have
to look into this. Right. Crazy. Yeah. I was like, Oh, I have to make this note real quick.
(55:34):
Yeah. They also used a submarine to search the lake, Lake Mirren, which is why I found nothing though,
nothing in any of that. In the early stages of 1972, U.S. Attorney General John N. Mitchell
released the serial numbers of the money given to Cooper to the general public.
(55:58):
Two men use counterfeit $20 bills with those serial numbers to get $30,000 from a newsweek
reporter named Carl Fleming in exchange for an interview with the man they falsely acclaimed
was the hijacker, which I just thought was kind of funny. Yeah. And in early 1973,
(56:20):
their ransom money was still missing. Nothing really significant had ever popped up about the
money. So an organ journalist republished the serial numbers and offered $1,000 to the first
person to turn in a ransom bill to the newspaper or the FBI field office. In Seattle, the post
(56:42):
intelligentser made a similar offer of a $5,000 reward though. The offers remained in effect
till Thanksgiving of 1974. And though there were several near close matches, nothing was
actually found of those that were given for ransom. And an analyst of the flight data indicated
(57:07):
that the first estimated location of Cooper's landing zone was inaccurate. So they did all of
that in the wrong location, which is just so difficult. I'm sorry. All of that. So let me
guess, they redid it in a new area. Perhaps. Oh, not as much. I mean, they've been looking,
(57:35):
but it wasn't like the last second. Captain Scott, who was flying the aircraft manually
because Cooper's speed was an altitude demand, demands determined the flight path was further
east than initially reported. Additional data provided by continental airline pilot Tom Bohan,
(57:57):
who was flying for four minutes behind flight 305, led the FBI to recalculate their estimates
for Cooper's drop zone. Bohan noted that the FBI's calculations for Cooper's drop zone
were based on incorrectly recorded wind direction. And therefore the FBI's estimates were inaccurate.
There's just a lot of things to take into consideration when trying to find where he jumped
(58:23):
out, I guess. Based on Bohan's data and recalculations of the flight path, the FBI determined
Cooper's drop zone was probably over Washhawgill River watershed. There was Shoggle Valley and
the surrounding areas have been reportedly searched, but no discovery, discoveries traceable
(58:43):
to the hijacking have ever been reported. On February 10th, 1980, an eight year old, Brian Ingram,
was, was vacationing with his family on the Columbia River at beachfront, known as Tina or
Tina bar, about nine miles downstream from Vancouver, Washington and 20 miles southwest of Ariel.
(59:10):
He was like raking around in the sandy little like area in the riverbank
to build a campfire and he uncovered three packets of ransom cash, totally at $5,800.
The bills had been deteriorated from a lengthy exposure to the elements,
(59:31):
but were still bundled in rubber bands. FBI technicians confirmed the money was indeed
a portion of the ransom money, two packets of $120 bills each and a third packet of 90,
all arranged in the same order was given to Cooper. So they confirmed it was that money.
(59:55):
The discovery caused a new conjecture and ultimately raised more questions than it really
answered because they're like, well, did he get away or not? Did he bury this? Has it been
in the river? Did it flow downstream? Like, yeah, a lot of people theorized that he buried it.
Initial statements by investigators and scientific consultants were founded on the assumption that
(01:00:22):
the bundled bills washed freely into the Columbia River from one of its main connecting contributors.
An Army Corps engineer, Hydralis, noticed that the bills had deteriorated in a rounded fashion.
So like rounded out the edges a little bit and they were all matted together,
(01:00:46):
indicated that they had been deposited by river action, opposed to being buried deliberately.
So they assumed that instead of being buried, it washed down river and then eventually over time
got buried by the sand. Gotcha. Like naturally, not by a human. The findings supported the hypothesis
(01:01:11):
Cooper had landed near the Washgall River, which merges with the Columbia upstream from the discovery
site in not in or near Lake Mirren, which is where they did that. Sub-surgent and search and all that.
Yeah. The free floating hypothesis neither explained the 10,000 bills missing from the
(01:01:37):
packet nor did explain how the three packets remain together after separating from the rest of the
money. So they were like, yeah, this could happen, but like it doesn't explain how
where's the rest of the money or why did it stay together? Basically, physical evidence was inc.
Didn't he like stuff some money into a parachute though? He did. So I wonder if it fell out of that.
(01:02:03):
Yeah. And he could have just like stained in the parachute for a while and then that's a good
a good thought. See that one anywhere. So physical. Yeah.
Yeah. Sleigh physical evidence was incompatible with geological evidence. Hemmels batch row
(01:02:28):
free floating bundles would have washed up on the bank within a couple of years of the hijacking.
Otherwise the rubber bands would have long since deteriorated. So they were thinking that maybe
the money wouldn't have deteriorated, but definitely the rubber bands would have. And in 1986 after
(01:02:49):
protracted negotiations, the recovered bills were divided equally between Brian Ingram and
Northwest Orients insurers, which was the Royal Globe insurance. The FBI retained 14 examples
of evidence. So basically they divided it between all the people, the ransom money,
(01:03:09):
which I thought was funny. They said, here's your money back. Your water soaked bills.
Oh, they gave it back to the people that originally paid it. Okay. Yeah.
Ingram ended up selling 15 of his bills at an auction in 2008 for $37,000,
(01:03:31):
which was equivalent to $52,000 in 2023. Like what? It's because of the case.
But it's also crazy that they're giving this money to like do what you will
because the serial numbers and if they're like looking for a specific serial numbers out in the
(01:03:55):
public. Well, I'm sure they just took those ones out of rotation or whatever.
They're like we found these ones. They're fine now. It's just crazy.
Here's your money back. Sell them. They sold them for pretty penny. Yeah, I mean, slay.
(01:04:16):
Kitchel bag. The Columbia River ransom money remains the only confirmed physical evidence
from the hijacking found outside of the aircraft. In 2002, the FBI discovered that the hair sample
that they had had been lost. So they can't compare that to anything anymore. How do they
just lose it? I don't know. By late 2007, the FBI had built a partial DNA profile from samples
(01:04:44):
found on Cooper's tie though in 2001. However, the FBI also acknowledged no evidence linked to Cooper
to the source of the DNA sample. So they haven't found, they found DNA, but they can't find anything
that links that DNA to anybody basically. FBI Special Agent Fred Gut said that the tie had
(01:05:10):
two small DNA samples and one large sample. It's difficult to draw firm conclusions from these
samples, he said. So I don't really know if that just makes it completely useless or what, but
doesn't seem like they can use it at all. The FBI also made public a file of previously
(01:05:32):
unreleased evidence that included Cooper's airplane ticket, the composite sketch, fact sheets,
and a posted request for information about Cooper's identification.
And ultimately, the investigation ended up being suspended on July 8th of 2016
(01:05:54):
due to the need to deploy and investigate resources and manpower on issues of greater
and more urgent priority, which I think is about time in 2016, like 1971 was a long time ago. I
don't think we need to be worrying about DBQ Cooper in that capacity anymore. Like it is,
(01:06:17):
it would be cool to figure out who he was and why and all that kind of stuff. And if he survived,
during the 45 year span of its in active investigation, the FBI periodically made public
some of its working hypothesis and tentative conclusions drawn from witness testimonies and
(01:06:38):
some of the physical evidence found conclusive evidence of Cooper's death has not been found.
And it's highly debated between investigators if Cooper survived the jump or not, which,
you know, like there's no evidence saying he did, there's no really evidence saying he didn't.
There was no body found and he wasn't found. So yeah, kind of hard to say one way or another.
(01:07:02):
Yeah. In the months after Cooper's hijacking, five men attempted copycat hijackings and all five
survived their parachute escapes. What? All five of them. So in my opinion, I think it's highly
likely likely he survived that jump. Well, I can't talk, especially if he was like so familiar with
(01:07:26):
the parachutes. All right. But also what? Five other men? Five. Attempted? And they all survived.
It's an attempt though. Did they get ransom money? They didn't get away. Oh, by. Yeah,
they were not as calculated as he was. They did not get away. They were found.
And then Cap showed. So like I said, the survival of the copycats and some of the circumstances
(01:07:57):
were similar to like the conditions of Cooper's jump did kind of force FBI to think that he
maybe have survived the jump, contrary to believing that he died, you know, because I think for a
long time they just were looking for his body basically, you know, yeah. This crime remains
(01:08:20):
the only documented unsolved case in commercial aviation history. All right. So that one was
a little bit different. What were your thoughts on that one? I like it. I like it. I like it a lot.
It is different and it's kind of in my realm of things because I like aviation. Yeah.
Um, but I also think it's really fucked up. Yeah. That they spent all that time
(01:08:46):
doing investigations on the case, but they don't do that for murder cases. So.
Do you think he survived? I do. I think so too. And like I said, there was a lot of
people that they did interview in connection to this case, but nothing
um, to like tie anybody to this case. So all of them were just theories and you know, suspects.
(01:09:14):
So I didn't really feel the need to include them because there was a huge list and
none of them really fit it. So yeah, but it is crazy. I, um, I think it's a cool, not cool. Like
I don't think you should do it, but I think it's crazy that he was able to pull it off.
Um, well in today's world, you definitely couldn't. No, no, no, no, but back then,
(01:09:37):
yeah, they just had like no rules or regulations on flying on airlines, nothing crazy. I mean,
you look from what happened with 9 11, everything that we have now, TSA, security,
like all the identification stems from them. Right. And that was in 2011. Yeah. 2001.
(01:10:04):
Yeah. It's not 11 yet. I know. I knew that 2000. I was like, 2011 is way too soon. 2001. Yeah.
Crazy shit, man. Well, we'd love to hear you guys's theory on the case of D.B. Cooper. If you
have any thoughts or theories, put them in the comment section below. We'd love to hear
(01:10:27):
and discuss them with you. Other than that, I'm going to take my happy little ass to bed because
I'm stoned to the bone and I hope you guys are too. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Thank you,
queen. Thank you. Until next time, stay high, stay safe and thank you for listening, watching,
(01:10:48):
watching, watching and listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, both. Doses.
Hey guys, thanks for watching. If you enjoyed the show, please like, subscribe and hit the
notification bell so you know when we drop our next episode. If you want to see more of the host
Kai, follow her at chronic chaos on all socials. Also, follow Queen Reefer at Queen Reefer on
(01:11:11):
all socials. And if you'd like, catch her on Twitch where she streams Monday and Friday.
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