June 21, 2025 • 35 mins
🔥 APPLY FOR SOBERCLEAR PROGRAM 🔥 Currently Accepting New Clients. Apply Here ➡️ https://www.soberclear.com/quiz/?el=podcast
📝🧠🍺 NEW: 100% FREE VIDEO TRAINING + SCIENTIFIC REPORT (96% SUCCESS RATE): https://www.soberclear.com/videos/?el=podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Stop Drinking Podcast, where we help
you make stopping drinking asimple, logical and easy
decision.
We help you with tips, toolsand strategies to start living
your best life when alcohol-free.
If you want to learn more aboutstop drinking coaching, then
head over to wwwsoberclearcom.
(00:21):
50 years trapped drinkingalcohol, solved in under a week.
Derek, a retired professional,is now 27 months sober.
He said within 24 hours Istopped forever.
No cravings, no willpower, justclarity.
Alcohol had shaped Derek's lifefrom age 15 onwards.
Multiple failed attempts madehim feel beyond help until he
(00:43):
tried something different.
I took Derek through myreframing approach and
everything shifted.
27 months later, he's thriving.
So what finally broke the cycleand how did he eliminate
cravings?
Well, today, that's exactlywhat we're going to unpack.
Let's dive into Derek's amazingstory and talk about the
amazing results that havehappened over the last 27 months
(01:05):
.
So, guys, today we have gotDerek joining us from Southeast
Virginia in America, so it's nowbeen 27 months since he started
the program.
When's the last time you went27 months without drinking,
derek?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, not since I was 15 years old, let's put it that
way.
It's been a very, very longtime.
Love it Well.
It's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Let's put it that way , it's been a very, very long
time Love it.
Well, it's a pleasure to haveyou.
So today, yeah, we're going tounpack your journey.
You know the amazing changesthat have happened in your life
and, yeah, just can't wait foryou to get this out there.
So I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
That's my pleasure.
That's my pleasure.
I hope me talking about thiswill maybe help some other
person who thinks, oh well, I'mtoo old or I'm too far gone.
Let me just tell you from mypersonal experience no, you're
not, and it's worth it for youand for the people around you to
do it, and I can't say thatmore from my heart than I just
(02:04):
did just did so.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
let's start at the beginning, Derek.
So yeah, how did alcohol becomea part of your life?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, you know, people often talk about how well
is it, your environment or yourgenes, and my response to that
question is always yes, it is.
And because I sort of won andlost the genetic lottery, I come
from a family that every malein it has major substance abuse
(02:39):
problems.
So that was a warning sign forme.
All the time it was out there Iknew I came from that and also
the environment I was in becauseof those physical problems.
It was a pretty dysfunctionalfamily.
Alcohol was everywhere and uh,you know, uh, yeah, it's,
there's people, lots of peoplehad worse.
(03:00):
Mine was pretty bad and uh, butalcohol was just part of your
life.
When there was a problem, youreach for a drink because that
would solve it.
And I started drinking realearly when I was 15.
So that's kind of where we are,that's how you get started, and
that was when I was 15 and kindof continued on from there.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So when did you like realizing alcohol was a problem?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, like I said, I knew I had my uh, my dad and his
brothers.
I mean, the example was there,I knew it.
Uh, I knew alcohol wasn't greatfor you.
But now we're going back almost50 years here and you know
people Hell.
At that time we thoughtcigarettes were good, you know,
(03:48):
or okay.
So you learn a lot.
But over time it just becameclear to me that, uh, this
wasn't good.
I was actually trying to help mybrother, uh, and I, if you look
in my Kindle's a I don't know awhole bunch of you know how to
quit alcohol or how to helpyourself with alcohol.
(04:10):
And in, in looking through that, it became pretty clear to me
that, yeah, he had a problem,but so did I.
And uh, from that perspective,you know it, and from that
perspective you know it, it itto weigh on me maybe 20 years
ago, that, hey, you know this isthis isn't good.
(04:30):
Uh, uh, I did try to stop acouple of times but uh, it you
know, like he quit for Lent orwhatever.
And uh, and then what happenedis, as soon as it was over, you
go on a binge and, from myperspective, because of the work
(04:59):
I did and the kind of thingsand people I was involved with,
I think what they call a highfunctioning alcohol use disorder
person.
I always showed up for work.
I was good, I did and romneywere very good and we kind of
set off each other in good waysbecause we collaborated and got
things done.
But there was also a big timefunction or an environment of
(05:23):
alcohol and you know, uh, you,you end up with, uh, a whole
bunch of things that don't anduh improve your relationship
with alcohol and uh, that'sthat's kind of how I was getting
to life.
At the, at that 20 year point, Istarted trying to quit, like I
said, and that's when I began torealize that, uh, this is
(05:44):
really fricking hard to quit,like I said, and that's when I
began to realize that, uh, thisis really freaking hard to quit
this really hard.
And so, uh, as I looked throughall the literature I had on uh
alcohol, which you know tiesinto addiction and the
(06:07):
relationship with alcohol anddopamine, that's when I began to
realize that just how difficultthis could be.
It's a physical andpsychological addiction and the
two go.
They're intertwined.
Uh, when you drink alcohol, uh,the dopamine, which is your
feel-good drug, kicks in reallyhard, except it's like amplified
(06:32):
far more than if you're doingsomething really in george and
she jumper.
You know that that jolt you getwhen you go off that's that's
dopamine.
well, when you put alcohol intothat mix, you amplify it and
it's like an order of magnitudeto stop just a little bit.
You don't feel a little bitbetter, you feel a lot, but then
(06:53):
you get a crash and that's why,and so you start chasing it and
that's uh, you know, that's whyyou get those types of problems
.
From my perspective, I was notthe guy who was, you know,
knocking back a handle of vodkaa day, although I worked with
some people who were.
(07:13):
I was a chronic kind of.
You know, I used to track myalcohol use and I would look at
it and they had, they had, uh,there's metrics in the, in the
alcohol use disorder handbook,if you will.
And uh, I was always at leastdouble what that was in a weekly
(07:37):
basis, and if it was a badweekend it would be a bit worse,
maybe quite a bit worse, youknow.
So that's kind of where I waswith alcohol.
It was a big part of my life,and but as long as I was working
, there were breaks, you know,and then, and that was
psychologically enough for me toovercome the, the urge to, to
(08:01):
go over the edge.
Most of the time not, but again, you do that for for decades
and the amount of damage you'redoing to uh your brain, your
other organs liver of course,but it affects them all and uh
(08:21):
your sleep patterns.
And you know I'm stillsearching for that magical.
this is why alcohol is good foryou uh and every time I look at
one of these studies that say itis, uh, somebody who used to do
some pretty good analysis.
No, that's not a study, that'san advertisement.
(08:45):
Anyway, what else would youlike to ask me?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
oh well, so so you started realizing, like 20 years
ago, that yeah, okay, thisstuff's not good.
So then and then it soundedlike you.
You know this kind of like you.
You it was causing some issues,but then you would have work
where you'd stop for a period oftime.
So were there like specificthings in those 20 years where
(09:13):
you were like you know thatwould drive you to want to stop?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, there were, like I say, I always showed up
for work and uh tended to be inwith a group of people who it's
kind of funny.
Uh, they say, well, so-and-sodrinks more than I do.
So you know, everything must beokay Well you know, that's,
that's a bit of self-deception,if you will.
(09:39):
Uh it it became.
As I got older, I started tofeel the effects more and I was
starting to physically breakdown, and you know, and then, uh
, as I was coming up on retiring, uh, well, the brakes were off,
police, and you know you, youdo that a couple of times.
(10:10):
And then I, you know so Iretired about eight, nine months
before I got into your program,and there was a couple times
there I said what the hell am Idoing here?
And I tried to.
I actually, you know,approached a couple of these
other programs and and tried togo through them and it didn't
work.
Uh, I think, as you recall well, you may not, it's been a
couple of years, but when Italked to you I wasn't real
(10:31):
optimistic and I think you hadsome.
I think you had some hesitationabout taking me on too because,
uh, well, target demographic andall that a bit older.
But I did and your approach wasactually kind of similar to the
(10:53):
way I had been going at it, ina kind of a step-by-step.
You know, understand, you know,first thing you got to do is
admit you got a problem, try tounderstand the problem and then
try to figure out what you gottado to solve it and then execute
it.
But the little bit ofdifference was having the skin
(11:18):
in the game.
I mean, your program is notfree, but for a lot of people I
think that is well.
For me it was critical.
You know, uh, I talked to mywife about it and she was kind
of like, well, you don't drinkthat much and that's, that's
really not true.
Uh, you know, there's, uh,there's some things about
(11:42):
alcohol.
Uh, those of us who who drink alot, we don't, we're not always
real open about how much we'redrinking and a lot of times the
people, even the ones that arevery close to us, don't realize
how much it is, other than maybethe rare outburst and uh, so
I'll just leave that right whereit is.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, Agreed, I know exactly what you're talking
about.
So yeah, and you know it'sfunny.
Actually earlier today I did acall with Jeff, who is around
the same time about two and ahalf years sober, and he said he
didn't actually realize ituntil looking back, but he
realized that he actuallystopped the moment he decided to
actually book a call with meand reach out for help and he
realized that that was theturning point with just actually
(12:22):
going.
How much are you going to talkto somebody about this?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, let me tell you , uh, the day I signed up with
you, before I'd even finished,before I even got your stuff, I
had stopped.
That was the day.
So Jeff and I have something incommon, uh, and you know, maybe
that's, that's just what it is,but whatever it is, it worked,
(12:51):
and that's for me theall-important thing it worked
thank you, love it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So maybe describe like how how different do you
feel now compared to the timesin the past where you know the
20 years that you were trying tostop for?
What was the difference like?
How do you feel now compared tothem?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
well, let me.
So, first thing, right out ofthe gate, you know you start
sleeping better because and ittakes a little while, it takes a
couple of weeks but you've gota lot of uh, long-term damage.
Your body's going to repair mycase because of the length of
(13:35):
time and really the uh, uhconsistency.
You know it was chronic abuse.
I wasn't, like I said, I wasn'tthe guy drinking a handle of
vodka, which I consider acute,although that could be chronic
as well but I was long-term, wayover the limit and it was an
every night thing and then with,with you know, bursts of of
(14:00):
worse.
Well, when you take that away,I, so I never had to go through,
like you know, the physical DTsor anything like that, but you
do go through.
It takes a couple of weeks foryour body just to flush the
stuff out and you start to feelbetter and and so that's good.
Uh, then you know I startedgetting back into working out a
(14:24):
bit and and I lost weight.
I lost 15 pounds and and Iprobably look, uh, people run
into me now and, in spite of thefact that I've lost a lot of
hair, uh, you know they, theysay, wow, you really look good
and you know I feel good.
So that's the, that's the,that's the all the upside it
doesn't make your life instantlybetter that all the
(14:49):
relationship issues, all the youknow, whatever problems you
have, are still there.
But the important thing is younow are aware of them in a way
you weren't before.
You don't just slug back acouple of beers to kind of numb
it and forget about it in thenext morning.
You still got the problem andyou have capacity that you
(15:10):
didn't have before to deal withissues.
There are things that happen inlife now that used to.
I I've got a very bad temper andI that runs in the family.
I've known that for years and Istill do.
But my ability to control it isabout a hundred percent better,
and and also my ability to dealwith just everyday life and
problems is better.
Uh, you know, my granddaughter,my daughter, had to move in
(15:34):
with us and you know, uh, I'mnot sure I could have handled
that many years ago and now Idon't need it.
It's just part of life.
You just roll with it and it'sgood.
You speak frequently aboutwhat's the upside to alcohol.
(15:56):
Well, like I say, I'm stilllooking and you might get a 15,
20 minute buzz.
Uh that, uh that first drink.
Uh, that's that dopamine hitkicking in and boy, that feels
good.
But then the crash.
When it comes down, youactually go below the dopamine
level and now you're in.
Your body says, hey, we got togo get this, and you know that's
(16:19):
why you ended up sitting at thebar two in the morning looking
for your next drink andeverybody else was gone.
I didn't do that, but I know Iworked with people who did.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So what else improved?
So you're sleeping better,you're losing weight, you know
you're, you're dealing withproblems better.
What else Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Come on, well, you start uh looking around at
people, you start engaging withthem more.
Uh, or and this is somethingI'm still not totally sure of Uh
, I, I believe my uh persona orsomething changed a bit.
(17:05):
Uh, I find that people approachme now uh readily I mean, maybe
I just noticed it more butpeople will come up and stop or
ask me a question or whatever.
They don't hesitate.
I, I have a feeling I might'velooked pretty rough, maybe uh or
gruff, you know, and you can beboth uh, because I was always,
(17:30):
you know, coming off a badnight's sleep, slightly hung
over or worse.
And uh now people, uh, I mean,I'll just be walking in the
supermarket and somebody look atme and smile and you know, and
I or maybe I just notice it, Idon't know the fog you're in
when you're coming off of uh,even just a couple of drinks
(17:53):
because you sleep so poorly.
I mean, one drink will ruin anight's sleep, and that's that's
.
That's a medical fact, that'snot a, you know, an opinion.
And when you don't sleep well,you are not anywhere near as
functional as you are capable ofand or should be.
So that, I think, is a realplus.
(18:14):
The wife and I have traveled.
We've also, you know, I've donea couple things on my own.
She's done a couple things onher own.
We're going to go, you know,I've done a couple things on my
own.
She's done a couple things onher on her own.
We're gonna go, uh, you know,visit her cousin in norway.
Uh, later this summer.
I in the past I would havehesitated to do that because of,
uh, you don't realize how muchalcohol controls your life.
(18:39):
Anytime you're going to go, dosomething you start thinking
about.
Well, you know, is there goingto be a bar there, or can I?
You know, will I be able to,and even at the lower levels
you're, you're, that's justsomething.
You know I need that.
I need those drinks every day,or I want to make sure I got
(18:59):
them, and if I don't have them,you know I get cranky.
Um, you take that out of yourlife and a whole bunch of things
.
All of a sudden you've got alot more time and that's
something.
Uh, one of the programs I waslooking at, uh, it involved
taking a drug when I was tryingto quit.
(19:21):
I, I didn't.
That didn't resonate with me atall.
Uh, to me, taking a drug to youknow it's like what is it?
Methadone or whatever they giveit to heroin addicts.
What do you end up with?
A guy addicted to methadone, uh, maybe that's better.
I don't know.
Never looked at it, but theyhad a you know a glossy trifold
(19:43):
which was very professionallydone, but they talked about the
five thieves, the five thievesof alcohol, and one of them was
the thief of time.
Uh, the other ones were, youknow, everything you, you can
think of.
That makes sense.
Uh, it takes away yourrelationships, your confidence
(20:04):
and so on, but you're, when youstop drinking, you gain time.
And, and the important thing forme was that now I have this
time I've got to do somethingwith it and uh, it took me a
while to figure that out Uh, but, and it will anybody, because
(20:24):
all of us this is going to be ashift when you, when you quit
and and you're not you've got to.
You've got to do two things, Ithink you've got to find
something that you like doingthat you've been doing and go a
lot harder at it.
You've also got to try to findsomething new that really
engages you and uh, that'sreally important because you've
(20:46):
got about a lot of capacity andalso you're chasing that
dopamine hit and if you don'tfind something that gives you
that, um, you know that's whereyou could maybe risk a relapse.
It kind of sneaks up to you.
You know that's where you couldmaybe risk a relapse.
It kind of sneaks up to you.
I have not felt that I have hadabsolutely zero, zero desire to
(21:07):
drink.
I don't mind being arounddrinking.
We go, we go to parties, we'vebeen on cruises.
You know, uh, like I'm tryingto learn how to dance that and
that's.
If you knew me better, you'dknow you would do more than just
grin at that.
You would.
You would be laughing your headoff.
But uh, anyway, that's.
(21:28):
I'm just saying.
You know you, you're notmissing out on anything by not
drinking, you are not.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
And you brought up some some really good points
Like and you brought up somesome really good points Like I
love what you said about howpeople talk to you more Like you
.
It's like you're more invitingor something.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah that, that that was interesting.
But then you said that youyou've just mentioned this like.
So I like what you're sayingbecause you're being realistic,
right.
You're saying that it's not amagic pill.
Your, your life's still goingto have problems.
They don't just magically alldisappear just because you're
not drinking a drug anymore.
They're still there.
But then you brought thissubjective time on.
And it's true, Especially ifyou're retired, you're going to
(22:08):
have a ton more free time andenergy.
So what have you found?
We're not going to saysubstitute, because there's no
substitute for this, but whathave you found?
What have you been filling yourtime with instead of drinking
like?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
well, I've been getting back more into uh,
fitness, uh, which, again, as anolder guy, you gotta.
If, uh, there was a point in mylife when I was very fit and
that has served me well as I'vegotten older, I found out that,
as I was recovering frominjuries which I induced on
(22:46):
myself from doing things ratherfoolishly, you have to train
differently and do itdifferently.
But that's been a.
You know, I like the golf, andif you're going to golf as an
older type, you've got to.
You don't get in shape playinggolf, you have to get.
I like to golf, and if you'regoing to golf as an older type,
you've got to.
Uh, you, you don't get in shapeplaying golf, you have to get
in shape to play golf, and sothat's been important.
(23:07):
Uh, I mentioned the dancingthat's.
That has been one of the mostdifficult things I've ever done
and I've done some prettychallenging things over the
years, but it it's, it's atotally new skillset years, but
it it's, it's a totally newskillset.
And, uh, you know, the peoplethat were trying to have been
trying to teach me are arepretty amazing.
(23:28):
Uh, it, it's a little funny uh,taking a one of the trips I
went on.
Uh, you know, I was in amongstsome people who are maybe a bit
out of my socioeconomic scale,but I fit in okay, and for
(23:48):
whatever reason, a couple ofthem, um, they also stopped
drinking and they told me that I, I had inspired them to stop
and that caused me a lot of Ididn't know what the.
(24:11):
It was a strange emotion.
I didn't know how to feel aboutthat, I mean, cause it was kind
of like, uh, and I still haveyet to really figure it out I
was maybe embarrassed or I Idon't know, but I was so
grateful that that had happened,but I also didn't really
(24:32):
understand it.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Uh, this is, this is post, stopping right.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
It wasn't during the drinking Cause, then it would be
quite offensive.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
No, this I.
When we were, you know, sittingdown to a dinner and they came
around, I said no, I stopped.
And oh, do you not drink?
I said no, I did drink, but I,I stopped.
And at the time that was, Istopped oh, do you not drink?
I said no, I did drink, but Istopped.
And at the time that was, Ithink I was a year into it, and
they, we chatted a little bit, Iwas very open about it.
(25:03):
And then a couple, about amonth or so after the trip, they
contacted me and said, yeah, we, we both quit, we're done.
And and you were a big part ofit, and I, I, like I said, I was
dumbfounded.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
So that's, that's it.
You don't know who you'reinfluencing.
We've initiated the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You can't tell.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, you can't tell people to stop, but you can set
the example.
It's all you can do.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, and I guess maybe that's it.
I don't really consider myselfa good example.
I consider myself a bad one.
50 years, almost no.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Well, that but, that's the whole point is that
if you can drink for 50 years,struggle for 20 and still change
, I mean you're the perfectexample.
Yes, uh, and that's maybe whereI got to kind of shift my frame
of reference, if you will, alittle bit.
(26:01):
But uh, yeah it's, and I think,yeah, I think one of the things
is because we're doing thisquite far into your journey.
It's not like it was threemonths ago, where you can
remember all the bad things,Like it's so it's such a long
time ago now that everything'sjust completely normal, Like
this is just how life is for younow.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, I ago now that everything is just completely
normal, like this is just howlife is for you now.
Yeah, I mean, this is like Isay, there's there's no urge to
drink at all.
Uh, there is an urge to, Iguess, maybe try to do things
better, and and that gets alittle frustrating at times
because, uh, I, I'm, there's acouple, I'm doing a little bit
(26:35):
of writing and there's a fewother things that I'm involved
with.
At times I'm borderline ADHD.
I think I'm kind of bouncingaround so much and maybe I need
to be a bit more focused, but,on the other hand, I've got a
lot more energy than I used tohave.
There's good and bad, and it'salways a matter of, uh, it's
(26:57):
trying to develop good habitsand good process vice.
You know the old habit, uh, man, I look back at it and the
habits I used to have, it waslike clockwork.
You know, this is what I'mgoing to do, and a lot of it was
really bad.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
No.
So without, without trying to,I don't want you to sell the
program, I want you to give yourversion of like how, how you
would handle this.
So if you could go back to yourold self the wanted to change
but wasn't sure what to do, butthey had the desire to change
(27:36):
what would you go and tell thatversion of you now?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So what I will do is assume that I I didn't have the
life experience that I'd alreadyhad where I had been trying to
help my brother and digging intothings.
And if, if you're someone who'sjust been drinking for a long
time, habitually, and you wannastop but you're at a loss, your
(28:04):
program lays out sort of a stepby step.
I mentioned it earlier.
You know the first rule ofholes you want to get out, quit
digging.
Uh, you, you really got torecognize you got a problem.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I said don't sell the program.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah Well, I'm sorry, this is, this is where you've
got to.
You got to look at yourself andyou know, and, and if you're,
if you're struggling, well, youneed a framework, you need
something that gives you, uh,human beings, love frameworks.
(28:44):
That's what we, that's what wesurvive on, because the world is
too complex for us to just takeit in and react.
So, you, that's what we do.
We try to put things in boxesand and re, so that we can work
our way through systematically.
Uh, that's that's what you need.
(29:04):
And and it.
You know I, I fumbled aroundlooking for something to do that
Um and uh it you know it tookme a while.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
And, by the way, knowing you have a problem
doesn't mean you can solve it.
Yeah, I remember I got a highlyskeptical email from you saying
I've bought this person programand it was.
It was rubbish and he won'tgive me my money back.
And uh and uh, I know whatfirst principle was thinking is
from previous work, but Iactually read it before we got
on the call.
I know what first principle isthinking is from previous work,
but I actually read it before wegot on the call.
I know what it is but I'm askeptic, something along those
(29:41):
lines.
But I think you'd already donea lot of like the your own kind
of analysis of how alcohol isimpacting your life.
I think you were quite far onin your journey mentally and
then it was kind of like for youjust needed a few key pieces
and then it ordered, broughteverything together for you.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's, it's.
You know, you can have all thepieces in in a puzzle, uh on the
table, and you might even have,uh, the rough edges sorted out.
But there's when you're doing apuzzle where all of a sudden
(30:20):
things start coming together andthat's where, uh, that was.
That was sort of the momentwhen, all of a sudden, gears
were grinding, they weren'tmeshing the clutch thing, and
then all of a sudden it slippedin and and the engine stopped
screaming and it started purring.
(30:41):
And you know, there, uh, it wasjust like, yeah, okay, this,
yes, this is it, this is the wayforward.
Um, this is it, this is the wayforward?
Um, it's, it's in.
Everyone is going to bedifferent and everybody's going
to have to find their own way.
(31:02):
But the framework, you know, if, if you can get yourself into
that framework and then you canstart, kind of it's almost like
monkey bars when you're a kidyou know I'm here and I want to
go there, well, you startswinging yourself along and you
get into a rhythm and the nextthing, you know, you're on the
other side and you say, well,that wasn't that hard.
Well, yeah, that's because youwere hanging on one, you know,
(31:26):
bar at a time and and doing itwithout you know, any sort of
assistance.
Uh, using the laws of physicsand momentum to get you moving
so you could get to the otherside.
Uh, you know, your, the stuffyou've got gives that framework,
uh, meat.
It puts meat on the bone, ifyou will.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
So I think, I think the I didn't want you to sell
the program, man, but Iappreciate these kind words.
It's so, it's so lovely to hear.
But I think the thing you tosell the program man, but I
appreciate these kind words it'sso lovely to hear.
But I think the thing you'resaying is, yeah, you've got to
admit you've got a problem, butthen you've got to find a
framework.
So don't struggle on your own,go and find something out there.
It doesn't necessarily need tobe this, it can be something
else.
And my mum, so my mum drank forall 20 years.
(32:10):
That was her framework.
Like it is a framework, it'sjust not one that we want to use
, but it's, it's still the sameprinciple that you're kind of
recommending no, and what youjust described is is an
important point.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
uh, everybody is different.
Uh, a work has worked formillions of people.
Uh, it, I looked at theirprogram pretty hard.
I mean, I go to a church wherethey've got the nightly meetings
and I uh this, just, uh, no, I,you know that that the mental,
(32:48):
it wasn't for me and I'll justleave it at that and it is a
good program.
Yeah, very, it's better thangood.
It's it's a lifesaver forpeople, but it just leave it at
that and it is a good program.
It's better than good, it's alifesaver for people, but it
just wasn't for me.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, isn't it funny.
I'm the person that benefitedfrom AA more than anybody that
went to AA, because my mom gotsober and raised me sober, right
, so I'm the one that benefitedthe most from it.
But then I now have analternative to that program.
It's quite funny, right?
(33:19):
Because it didn't work for meand I wasn't going to do that
either, like hell, no, but youradvice is golden, so let me ask
you this.
So I think one thing peoplestruggle with is reaching out
for help because you have to andJeff said this on the previous
call and I don't want to giveyou the answer before he said it
, but he made a great point.
He said you got to swallow yourpride, and it's a fricking hard
thing to do, especially whenyou're male to to reach out for
help and say do you know what?
I don't know how to do this,what I've been doing is not
(33:39):
working.
So what would you say tosomebody who's kind of at that
place where they know they'vegot a problem, but you know
they're holding onto their pride, they're afraid to reach out
for help?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I would agree with Jeff about swallowing your pride
or admitting.
I mean, we all think we're bigand tough and strong, and in
many ways we are, but sometimesyou get yourself into a
situation where you need someoneto give you a hand, whether
(34:15):
you're part of a team or whetheryou're a crew or whatever.
So we do it through life andthis is maybe one of the most
important things you're evergoing to do.
You know you got a problem.
You do it at work, or you'vedone it in your career, or
you've done it in other areas ofyour life.
Uh, and yeah, you know.
(34:38):
This is where the the the reallytough part comes is admitting
to, uh, the people close to youand your loved ones that, yeah,
you know you got a problem andyou got to do it.
And, uh, you know it's criticalfor them to support you and my
family did, and for them tosupport you and my family did,
and and that you know.
(34:59):
So there's a team there, uh,and then the group uh, you know
the, the discussions you guyshave two days a week.
I try to get in there, but itjust I just never seem to make
it uh with joe, but it youreally.
Maybe that's that little extrathat gets you, that's that final
log on the pile that lets youget over the hump, if you will,
(35:23):
and get into an area where youcan start to fix your problem.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Thanks for checking out the Stop Drinking Podcast by
Sober Clear If you want tolearn more about how we work
with people to help.
Welcome to the Stop Drinking Podcast, where we help
you make stopping drinking asimple, logical and easy
decision.
We help you with tips, toolsand strategies to start living
your best life when alcohol-free.
If you want to learn more aboutstop drinking coaching, then
head over to wwwsoberclearcom.
(00:21):
50 years trapped drinkingalcohol, solved in under a week.
Derek, a retired professional,is now 27 months sober.
He said within 24 hours Istopped forever.
No cravings, no willpower, justclarity.
Alcohol had shaped Derek's lifefrom age 15 onwards.
Multiple failed attempts madehim feel beyond help until he
(00:43):
tried something different.
I took Derek through myreframing approach and
everything shifted.
27 months later, he's thriving.
So what finally broke the cycleand how did he eliminate
cravings?
Well, today, that's exactlywhat we're going to unpack.
Let's dive into Derek's amazingstory and talk about the
amazing results that havehappened over the last 27 months
(01:05):
.
So, guys, today we have gotDerek joining us from Southeast
Virginia in America, so it's nowbeen 27 months since he started
the program.
When's the last time you went27 months without drinking,
derek?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, not since I was 15 years old, let's put it that
way.
It's been a very, very longtime.
Love it Well.
It's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Let's put it that way , it's been a very, very long
time Love it.
Well, it's a pleasure to haveyou.
So today, yeah, we're going tounpack your journey.
You know the amazing changesthat have happened in your life
and, yeah, just can't wait foryou to get this out there.
So I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
That's my pleasure.
That's my pleasure.
I hope me talking about thiswill maybe help some other
person who thinks, oh well, I'mtoo old or I'm too far gone.
Let me just tell you from mypersonal experience no, you're
not, and it's worth it for youand for the people around you to
do it, and I can't say thatmore from my heart than I just
(02:04):
did just did so.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
let's start at the beginning, Derek.
So yeah, how did alcohol becomea part of your life?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, you know, people often talk about how well
is it, your environment or yourgenes, and my response to that
question is always yes, it is.
And because I sort of won andlost the genetic lottery, I come
from a family that every malein it has major substance abuse
(02:39):
problems.
So that was a warning sign forme.
All the time it was out there Iknew I came from that and also
the environment I was in becauseof those physical problems.
It was a pretty dysfunctionalfamily.
Alcohol was everywhere and uh,you know, uh, yeah, it's,
there's people, lots of peoplehad worse.
(03:00):
Mine was pretty bad and uh, butalcohol was just part of your
life.
When there was a problem, youreach for a drink because that
would solve it.
And I started drinking realearly when I was 15.
So that's kind of where we are,that's how you get started, and
that was when I was 15 and kindof continued on from there.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So when did you like realizing alcohol was a problem?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, like I said, I knew I had my uh, my dad and his
brothers.
I mean, the example was there,I knew it.
Uh, I knew alcohol wasn't greatfor you.
But now we're going back almost50 years here and you know
people Hell.
At that time we thoughtcigarettes were good, you know,
(03:48):
or okay.
So you learn a lot.
But over time it just becameclear to me that, uh, this
wasn't good.
I was actually trying to help mybrother, uh, and I, if you look
in my Kindle's a I don't know awhole bunch of you know how to
quit alcohol or how to helpyourself with alcohol.
(04:10):
And in, in looking through that, it became pretty clear to me
that, yeah, he had a problem,but so did I.
And uh, from that perspective,you know it, and from that
perspective you know it, it itto weigh on me maybe 20 years
ago, that, hey, you know this isthis isn't good.
(04:30):
Uh, uh, I did try to stop acouple of times but uh, it you
know, like he quit for Lent orwhatever.
And uh, and then what happenedis, as soon as it was over, you
go on a binge and, from myperspective, because of the work
(04:59):
I did and the kind of thingsand people I was involved with,
I think what they call a highfunctioning alcohol use disorder
person.
I always showed up for work.
I was good, I did and romneywere very good and we kind of
set off each other in good waysbecause we collaborated and got
things done.
But there was also a big timefunction or an environment of
(05:23):
alcohol and you know, uh, you,you end up with, uh, a whole
bunch of things that don't anduh improve your relationship
with alcohol and uh, that'sthat's kind of how I was getting
to life.
At the, at that 20 year point, Istarted trying to quit, like I
said, and that's when I began torealize that, uh, this is
(05:44):
really fricking hard to quit,like I said, and that's when I
began to realize that, uh, thisis really freaking hard to quit
this really hard.
And so, uh, as I looked throughall the literature I had on uh
alcohol, which you know tiesinto addiction and the
(06:07):
relationship with alcohol anddopamine, that's when I began to
realize that just how difficultthis could be.
It's a physical andpsychological addiction and the
two go.
They're intertwined.
Uh, when you drink alcohol, uh,the dopamine, which is your
feel-good drug, kicks in reallyhard, except it's like amplified
(06:32):
far more than if you're doingsomething really in george and
she jumper.
You know that that jolt you getwhen you go off that's that's
dopamine.
well, when you put alcohol intothat mix, you amplify it and
it's like an order of magnitudeto stop just a little bit.
You don't feel a little bitbetter, you feel a lot, but then
(06:53):
you get a crash and that's why,and so you start chasing it and
that's uh, you know, that's whyyou get those types of problems
.
From my perspective, I was notthe guy who was, you know,
knocking back a handle of vodkaa day, although I worked with
some people who were.
(07:13):
I was a chronic kind of.
You know, I used to track myalcohol use and I would look at
it and they had, they had, uh,there's metrics in the, in the
alcohol use disorder handbook,if you will.
And uh, I was always at leastdouble what that was in a weekly
(07:37):
basis, and if it was a badweekend it would be a bit worse,
maybe quite a bit worse, youknow.
So that's kind of where I waswith alcohol.
It was a big part of my life,and but as long as I was working
, there were breaks, you know,and then, and that was
psychologically enough for me toovercome the, the urge to, to
(08:01):
go over the edge.
Most of the time not, but again, you do that for for decades
and the amount of damage you'redoing to uh your brain, your
other organs liver of course,but it affects them all and uh
(08:21):
your sleep patterns.
And you know I'm stillsearching for that magical.
this is why alcohol is good foryou uh and every time I look at
one of these studies that say itis, uh, somebody who used to do
some pretty good analysis.
No, that's not a study, that'san advertisement.
(08:45):
Anyway, what else would youlike to ask me?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
oh well, so so you started realizing, like 20 years
ago, that yeah, okay, thisstuff's not good.
So then and then it soundedlike you.
You know this kind of like you.
You it was causing some issues,but then you would have work
where you'd stop for a period oftime.
So were there like specificthings in those 20 years where
(09:13):
you were like you know thatwould drive you to want to stop?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, there were, like I say, I always showed up
for work and uh tended to be inwith a group of people who it's
kind of funny.
Uh, they say, well, so-and-sodrinks more than I do.
So you know, everything must beokay Well you know, that's,
that's a bit of self-deception,if you will.
(09:39):
Uh it it became.
As I got older, I started tofeel the effects more and I was
starting to physically breakdown, and you know, and then, uh
, as I was coming up on retiring, uh, well, the brakes were off,
police, and you know you, youdo that a couple of times.
(10:10):
And then I, you know so Iretired about eight, nine months
before I got into your program,and there was a couple times
there I said what the hell am Idoing here?
And I tried to.
I actually, you know,approached a couple of these
other programs and and tried togo through them and it didn't
work.
Uh, I think, as you recall well, you may not, it's been a
couple of years, but when Italked to you I wasn't real
(10:31):
optimistic and I think you hadsome.
I think you had some hesitationabout taking me on too because,
uh, well, target demographic andall that a bit older.
But I did and your approach wasactually kind of similar to the
(10:53):
way I had been going at it, ina kind of a step-by-step.
You know, understand, you know,first thing you got to do is
admit you got a problem, try tounderstand the problem and then
try to figure out what you gottado to solve it and then execute
it.
But the little bit ofdifference was having the skin
(11:18):
in the game.
I mean, your program is notfree, but for a lot of people I
think that is well.
For me it was critical.
You know, uh, I talked to mywife about it and she was kind
of like, well, you don't drinkthat much and that's, that's
really not true.
Uh, you know, there's, uh,there's some things about
(11:42):
alcohol.
Uh, those of us who who drink alot, we don't, we're not always
real open about how much we'redrinking and a lot of times the
people, even the ones that arevery close to us, don't realize
how much it is, other than maybethe rare outburst and uh, so
I'll just leave that right whereit is.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, Agreed, I know exactly what you're talking
about.
So yeah, and you know it'sfunny.
Actually earlier today I did acall with Jeff, who is around
the same time about two and ahalf years sober, and he said he
didn't actually realize ituntil looking back, but he
realized that he actuallystopped the moment he decided to
actually book a call with meand reach out for help and he
realized that that was theturning point with just actually
(12:22):
going.
How much are you going to talkto somebody about this?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, let me tell you , uh, the day I signed up with
you, before I'd even finished,before I even got your stuff, I
had stopped.
That was the day.
So Jeff and I have something incommon, uh, and you know, maybe
that's, that's just what it is,but whatever it is, it worked,
(12:51):
and that's for me theall-important thing it worked
thank you, love it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So maybe describe like how how different do you
feel now compared to the timesin the past where you know the
20 years that you were trying tostop for?
What was the difference like?
How do you feel now compared tothem?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
well, let me.
So, first thing, right out ofthe gate, you know you start
sleeping better because and ittakes a little while, it takes a
couple of weeks but you've gota lot of uh, long-term damage.
Your body's going to repair mycase because of the length of
(13:35):
time and really the uh, uhconsistency.
You know it was chronic abuse.
I wasn't, like I said, I wasn'tthe guy drinking a handle of
vodka, which I consider acute,although that could be chronic
as well but I was long-term, wayover the limit and it was an
every night thing and then with,with you know, bursts of of
(14:00):
worse.
Well, when you take that away,I, so I never had to go through,
like you know, the physical DTsor anything like that, but you
do go through.
It takes a couple of weeks foryour body just to flush the
stuff out and you start to feelbetter and and so that's good.
Uh, then you know I startedgetting back into working out a
(14:24):
bit and and I lost weight.
I lost 15 pounds and and Iprobably look, uh, people run
into me now and, in spite of thefact that I've lost a lot of
hair, uh, you know they, theysay, wow, you really look good
and you know I feel good.
So that's the, that's the,that's the all the upside it
doesn't make your life instantlybetter that all the
(14:49):
relationship issues, all the youknow, whatever problems you
have, are still there.
But the important thing is younow are aware of them in a way
you weren't before.
You don't just slug back acouple of beers to kind of numb
it and forget about it in thenext morning.
You still got the problem andyou have capacity that you
(15:10):
didn't have before to deal withissues.
There are things that happen inlife now that used to.
I I've got a very bad temper andI that runs in the family.
I've known that for years and Istill do.
But my ability to control it isabout a hundred percent better,
and and also my ability to dealwith just everyday life and
problems is better.
Uh, you know, my granddaughter,my daughter, had to move in
(15:34):
with us and you know, uh, I'mnot sure I could have handled
that many years ago and now Idon't need it.
It's just part of life.
You just roll with it and it'sgood.
You speak frequently aboutwhat's the upside to alcohol.
(15:56):
Well, like I say, I'm stilllooking and you might get a 15,
20 minute buzz.
Uh that, uh that first drink.
Uh, that's that dopamine hitkicking in and boy, that feels
good.
But then the crash.
When it comes down, youactually go below the dopamine
level and now you're in.
Your body says, hey, we got togo get this, and you know that's
(16:19):
why you ended up sitting at thebar two in the morning looking
for your next drink andeverybody else was gone.
I didn't do that, but I know Iworked with people who did.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So what else improved?
So you're sleeping better,you're losing weight, you know
you're, you're dealing withproblems better.
What else Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Come on, well, you start uh looking around at
people, you start engaging withthem more.
Uh, or and this is somethingI'm still not totally sure of Uh
, I, I believe my uh persona orsomething changed a bit.
(17:05):
Uh, I find that people approachme now uh readily I mean, maybe
I just noticed it more butpeople will come up and stop or
ask me a question or whatever.
They don't hesitate.
I, I have a feeling I might'velooked pretty rough, maybe uh or
gruff, you know, and you can beboth uh, because I was always,
(17:30):
you know, coming off a badnight's sleep, slightly hung
over or worse.
And uh now people, uh, I mean,I'll just be walking in the
supermarket and somebody look atme and smile and you know, and
I or maybe I just notice it, Idon't know the fog you're in
when you're coming off of uh,even just a couple of drinks
(17:53):
because you sleep so poorly.
I mean, one drink will ruin anight's sleep, and that's that's
.
That's a medical fact, that'snot a, you know, an opinion.
And when you don't sleep well,you are not anywhere near as
functional as you are capable ofand or should be.
So that, I think, is a realplus.
(18:14):
The wife and I have traveled.
We've also, you know, I've donea couple things on my own.
She's done a couple things onher own.
We're going to go, you know,I've done a couple things on my
own.
She's done a couple things onher on her own.
We're gonna go, uh, you know,visit her cousin in norway.
Uh, later this summer.
I in the past I would havehesitated to do that because of,
uh, you don't realize how muchalcohol controls your life.
(18:39):
Anytime you're going to go, dosomething you start thinking
about.
Well, you know, is there goingto be a bar there, or can I?
You know, will I be able to,and even at the lower levels
you're, you're, that's justsomething.
You know I need that.
I need those drinks every day,or I want to make sure I got
(18:59):
them, and if I don't have them,you know I get cranky.
Um, you take that out of yourlife and a whole bunch of things
.
All of a sudden you've got alot more time and that's
something.
Uh, one of the programs I waslooking at, uh, it involved
taking a drug when I was tryingto quit.
(19:21):
I, I didn't.
That didn't resonate with me atall.
Uh, to me, taking a drug to youknow it's like what is it?
Methadone or whatever they giveit to heroin addicts.
What do you end up with?
A guy addicted to methadone, uh, maybe that's better.
I don't know.
Never looked at it, but theyhad a you know a glossy trifold
(19:43):
which was very professionallydone, but they talked about the
five thieves, the five thievesof alcohol, and one of them was
the thief of time.
Uh, the other ones were, youknow, everything you, you can
think of.
That makes sense.
Uh, it takes away yourrelationships, your confidence
(20:04):
and so on, but you're, when youstop drinking, you gain time.
And, and the important thing forme was that now I have this
time I've got to do somethingwith it and uh, it took me a
while to figure that out Uh, but, and it will anybody, because
(20:24):
all of us this is going to be ashift when you, when you quit
and and you're not you've got to.
You've got to do two things, Ithink you've got to find
something that you like doingthat you've been doing and go a
lot harder at it.
You've also got to try to findsomething new that really
engages you and uh, that'sreally important because you've
(20:46):
got about a lot of capacity andalso you're chasing that
dopamine hit and if you don'tfind something that gives you
that, um, you know that's whereyou could maybe risk a relapse.
It kind of sneaks up to you.
You know that's where you couldmaybe risk a relapse.
It kind of sneaks up to you.
I have not felt that I have hadabsolutely zero, zero desire to
(21:07):
drink.
I don't mind being arounddrinking.
We go, we go to parties, we'vebeen on cruises.
You know, uh, like I'm tryingto learn how to dance that and
that's.
If you knew me better, you'dknow you would do more than just
grin at that.
You would.
You would be laughing your headoff.
But uh, anyway, that's.
(21:28):
I'm just saying.
You know you, you're notmissing out on anything by not
drinking, you are not.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
And you brought up some some really good points
Like and you brought up somesome really good points Like I
love what you said about howpeople talk to you more Like you
.
It's like you're more invitingor something.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah that, that that was interesting.
But then you said that youyou've just mentioned this like.
So I like what you're sayingbecause you're being realistic,
right.
You're saying that it's not amagic pill.
Your, your life's still goingto have problems.
They don't just magically alldisappear just because you're
not drinking a drug anymore.
They're still there.
But then you brought thissubjective time on.
And it's true, Especially ifyou're retired, you're going to
(22:08):
have a ton more free time andenergy.
So what have you found?
We're not going to saysubstitute, because there's no
substitute for this, but whathave you found?
What have you been filling yourtime with instead of drinking
like?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
well, I've been getting back more into uh,
fitness, uh, which, again, as anolder guy, you gotta.
If, uh, there was a point in mylife when I was very fit and
that has served me well as I'vegotten older, I found out that,
as I was recovering frominjuries which I induced on
(22:46):
myself from doing things ratherfoolishly, you have to train
differently and do itdifferently.
But that's been a.
You know, I like the golf, andif you're going to golf as an
older type, you've got to.
You don't get in shape playinggolf, you have to get.
I like to golf, and if you'regoing to golf as an older type,
you've got to.
Uh, you, you don't get in shapeplaying golf, you have to get
in shape to play golf, and sothat's been important.
(23:07):
Uh, I mentioned the dancingthat's.
That has been one of the mostdifficult things I've ever done
and I've done some prettychallenging things over the
years, but it it's, it's atotally new skillset years, but
it it's, it's a totally newskillset.
And, uh, you know, the peoplethat were trying to have been
trying to teach me are arepretty amazing.
(23:28):
Uh, it, it's a little funny uh,taking a one of the trips I
went on.
Uh, you know, I was in amongstsome people who are maybe a bit
out of my socioeconomic scale,but I fit in okay, and for
(23:48):
whatever reason, a couple ofthem, um, they also stopped
drinking and they told me that I, I had inspired them to stop
and that caused me a lot of Ididn't know what the.
(24:11):
It was a strange emotion.
I didn't know how to feel aboutthat, I mean, cause it was kind
of like, uh, and I still haveyet to really figure it out I
was maybe embarrassed or I Idon't know, but I was so
grateful that that had happened,but I also didn't really
(24:32):
understand it.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Uh, this is, this is post, stopping right.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
It wasn't during the drinking Cause, then it would be
quite offensive.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
No, this I.
When we were, you know, sittingdown to a dinner and they came
around, I said no, I stopped.
And oh, do you not drink?
I said no, I did drink, but I,I stopped.
And at the time that was, Istopped oh, do you not drink?
I said no, I did drink, but Istopped.
And at the time that was, Ithink I was a year into it, and
they, we chatted a little bit, Iwas very open about it.
(25:03):
And then a couple, about amonth or so after the trip, they
contacted me and said, yeah, we, we both quit, we're done.
And and you were a big part ofit, and I, I, like I said, I was
dumbfounded.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
So that's, that's it.
You don't know who you'reinfluencing.
We've initiated the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You can't tell.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, you can't tell people to stop, but you can set
the example.
It's all you can do.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, and I guess maybe that's it.
I don't really consider myselfa good example.
I consider myself a bad one.
50 years, almost no.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Well, that but, that's the whole point is that
if you can drink for 50 years,struggle for 20 and still change
, I mean you're the perfectexample.
Yes, uh, and that's maybe whereI got to kind of shift my frame
of reference, if you will, alittle bit.
(26:01):
But uh, yeah it's, and I think,yeah, I think one of the things
is because we're doing thisquite far into your journey.
It's not like it was threemonths ago, where you can
remember all the bad things,Like it's so it's such a long
time ago now that everything'sjust completely normal, Like
this is just how life is for younow.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, I ago now that everything is just completely
normal, like this is just howlife is for you now.
Yeah, I mean, this is like Isay, there's there's no urge to
drink at all.
Uh, there is an urge to, Iguess, maybe try to do things
better, and and that gets alittle frustrating at times
because, uh, I, I'm, there's acouple, I'm doing a little bit
(26:35):
of writing and there's a fewother things that I'm involved
with.
At times I'm borderline ADHD.
I think I'm kind of bouncingaround so much and maybe I need
to be a bit more focused, but,on the other hand, I've got a
lot more energy than I used tohave.
There's good and bad, and it'salways a matter of, uh, it's
(26:57):
trying to develop good habitsand good process vice.
You know the old habit, uh, man, I look back at it and the
habits I used to have, it waslike clockwork.
You know, this is what I'mgoing to do, and a lot of it was
really bad.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
No.
So without, without trying to,I don't want you to sell the
program, I want you to give yourversion of like how, how you
would handle this.
So if you could go back to yourold self the wanted to change
but wasn't sure what to do, butthey had the desire to change
(27:36):
what would you go and tell thatversion of you now?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So what I will do is assume that I I didn't have the
life experience that I'd alreadyhad where I had been trying to
help my brother and digging intothings.
And if, if you're someone who'sjust been drinking for a long
time, habitually, and you wannastop but you're at a loss, your
(28:04):
program lays out sort of a stepby step.
I mentioned it earlier.
You know the first rule ofholes you want to get out, quit
digging.
Uh, you, you really got torecognize you got a problem.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I said don't sell the program.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah Well, I'm sorry, this is, this is where you've
got to.
You got to look at yourself andyou know, and, and if you're,
if you're struggling, well, youneed a framework, you need
something that gives you, uh,human beings, love frameworks.
(28:44):
That's what we, that's what wesurvive on, because the world is
too complex for us to just takeit in and react.
So, you, that's what we do.
We try to put things in boxesand and re, so that we can work
our way through systematically.
Uh, that's that's what you need.
(29:04):
And and it.
You know I, I fumbled aroundlooking for something to do that
Um and uh it you know it tookme a while.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
And, by the way, knowing you have a problem
doesn't mean you can solve it.
Yeah, I remember I got a highlyskeptical email from you saying
I've bought this person programand it was.
It was rubbish and he won'tgive me my money back.
And uh and uh, I know whatfirst principle was thinking is
from previous work, but Iactually read it before we got
on the call.
I know what first principle isthinking is from previous work,
but I actually read it before wegot on the call.
I know what it is but I'm askeptic, something along those
(29:41):
lines.
But I think you'd already donea lot of like the your own kind
of analysis of how alcohol isimpacting your life.
I think you were quite far onin your journey mentally and
then it was kind of like for youjust needed a few key pieces
and then it ordered, broughteverything together for you.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's, it's.
You know, you can have all thepieces in in a puzzle, uh on the
table, and you might even have,uh, the rough edges sorted out.
But there's when you're doing apuzzle where all of a sudden
(30:20):
things start coming together andthat's where, uh, that was.
That was sort of the momentwhen, all of a sudden, gears
were grinding, they weren'tmeshing the clutch thing, and
then all of a sudden it slippedin and and the engine stopped
screaming and it started purring.
(30:41):
And you know, there, uh, it wasjust like, yeah, okay, this,
yes, this is it, this is the wayforward.
Um, this is it, this is the wayforward?
Um, it's, it's in.
Everyone is going to bedifferent and everybody's going
to have to find their own way.
(31:02):
But the framework, you know, if, if you can get yourself into
that framework and then you canstart, kind of it's almost like
monkey bars when you're a kidyou know I'm here and I want to
go there, well, you startswinging yourself along and you
get into a rhythm and the nextthing, you know, you're on the
other side and you say, well,that wasn't that hard.
Well, yeah, that's because youwere hanging on one, you know,
(31:26):
bar at a time and and doing itwithout you know, any sort of
assistance.
Uh, using the laws of physicsand momentum to get you moving
so you could get to the otherside.
Uh, you know, your, the stuffyou've got gives that framework,
uh, meat.
It puts meat on the bone, ifyou will.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
So I think, I think the I didn't want you to sell
the program, man, but Iappreciate these kind words.
It's so, it's so lovely to hear.
But I think the thing you tosell the program man, but I
appreciate these kind words it'sso lovely to hear.
But I think the thing you'resaying is, yeah, you've got to
admit you've got a problem, butthen you've got to find a
framework.
So don't struggle on your own,go and find something out there.
It doesn't necessarily need tobe this, it can be something
else.
And my mum, so my mum drank forall 20 years.
(32:10):
That was her framework.
Like it is a framework, it'sjust not one that we want to use
, but it's, it's still the sameprinciple that you're kind of
recommending no, and what youjust described is is an
important point.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
uh, everybody is different.
Uh, a work has worked formillions of people.
Uh, it, I looked at theirprogram pretty hard.
I mean, I go to a church wherethey've got the nightly meetings
and I uh this, just, uh, no, I,you know that that the mental,
(32:48):
it wasn't for me and I'll justleave it at that and it is a
good program.
Yeah, very, it's better thangood.
It's it's a lifesaver forpeople, but it just leave it at
that and it is a good program.
It's better than good, it's alifesaver for people, but it
just wasn't for me.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, isn't it funny.
I'm the person that benefitedfrom AA more than anybody that
went to AA, because my mom gotsober and raised me sober, right
, so I'm the one that benefitedthe most from it.
But then I now have analternative to that program.
It's quite funny, right?
(33:19):
Because it didn't work for meand I wasn't going to do that
either, like hell, no, but youradvice is golden, so let me ask
you this.
So I think one thing peoplestruggle with is reaching out
for help because you have to andJeff said this on the previous
call and I don't want to giveyou the answer before he said it
, but he made a great point.
He said you got to swallow yourpride, and it's a fricking hard
thing to do, especially whenyou're male to to reach out for
help and say do you know what?
I don't know how to do this,what I've been doing is not
(33:39):
working.
So what would you say tosomebody who's kind of at that
place where they know they'vegot a problem, but you know
they're holding onto their pride, they're afraid to reach out
for help?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I would agree with Jeff about swallowing your pride
or admitting.
I mean, we all think we're bigand tough and strong, and in
many ways we are, but sometimesyou get yourself into a
situation where you need someoneto give you a hand, whether
(34:15):
you're part of a team or whetheryou're a crew or whatever.
So we do it through life andthis is maybe one of the most
important things you're evergoing to do.
You know you got a problem.
You do it at work, or you'vedone it in your career, or
you've done it in other areas ofyour life.
Uh, and yeah, you know.
(34:38):
This is where the the the reallytough part comes is admitting
to, uh, the people close to youand your loved ones that, yeah,
you know you got a problem andyou got to do it.
And, uh, you know it's criticalfor them to support you and my
family did, and for them tosupport you and my family did,
and and that you know.
(34:59):
So there's a team there, uh,and then the group uh, you know
the, the discussions you guyshave two days a week.
I try to get in there, but itjust I just never seem to make
it uh with joe, but it youreally.
Maybe that's that little extrathat gets you, that's that final
log on the pile that lets youget over the hump, if you will,
(35:23):
and get into an area where youcan start to fix your problem.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Thanks for checking out the Stop Drinking Podcast by
Sober Clear If you want tolearn more about how we work
with people to help.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.