October 13, 2023 • 43 mins
Can retirement be the most exciting chapter in your life? Lisa, a business owner and retired Fidelity , thinks so and she's eager to tell you why. We kick off with a refreshing chat about retirement, shaking off the outdated notion that it signals the end of one's working or even living and experiential journey. Instead, Lisa provides valuable insights into how this phase can be a delightful transition, filled with opportunities to fulfil personal dreams and goals.
Ever wonder how to build a balanced 'life portfolio'? We join Lisa as she demystifies this concept and shares practical guidance on how to create one that suits your unique needs. We delve into the idea of using retirement as a stage for freedom and flexibility, encouraging you to dust off past dreams and utilize resources to build a vision for your future. This is a conversation that prompts you to look beyond the societal norms that place undue emphasis on productivity and to understand that rest and leisure hold their own value.
We wrap up with an enlightening discussion on retirement planning not just as a financial necessity but also as a route to finding and living with purpose. Lisa speaks to us about the power of retirement workshops as a safe space to explore, the importance of perpetual learning, and the sheer joy of a purpose-driven life. It's not often you encounter a conversation that could change your perspective on something as significant as retirement, but this episode promises to do just that. Join us, and let's redefine retirement together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is my first time using this particular platform,
so I'm actually very curious tosee how it all plays out.
So thank you for being myguinea pig today.
Lisa, hello, it is so good tohave you here on the Stop
Shitting All Over Yourselfpodcast.
Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How are you today?
Oh, I'm great.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
Thank you for asking me.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh, dude, after our conversation.
So the reason why I asked Lisaon was because we were at an
event where we were at thelibrary, the elementary library.
We're all sitting there talkingand you said something about
and I'm not going to do itjustice, I'm sure it will come
out today but you said somethingabout how people think of
retirement as the end of theirlives and they sort of they
(00:52):
struggle with what do I do afterI retire and how there's such a
more joyful way of thinkingabout retirement and I was like,
oh my god, my wife talks aboutthis kind of thing all the time.
I was like I had that problemand I used to look at it in such
a negative way.
And Lisa has this perspectivethat is like your life kind of
(01:13):
begins at retirement.
Right, it's like, well, I don'teven call it retirement, but
we'll come to that later.
So, lisa, I'd love to hear alittle bit about what you do.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Sure.
So I have a huge background inleadership development and
coaching and it was all aroundlike career coaching and so.
But what I do now is kind of anextension of that, and so a
very good friend and colleagueof mine we'd worked together for
over 20 years we started thisbusiness about three years ago
(01:42):
called the Future of you, andbasically what the Future of you
does is it provides a roadmapand resources to help people
really think about this nextchapter and to reinvent and
create a personalized view ofwhat retirement looks like for
them.
And we do it through a lot ofthings, but for the most part,
(02:06):
we have either some onlineresources and a roadmap and a
toolkit that folks can use, andthen we also have employer
sponsored programs where we doworkshops for companies.
Oh, vanessa, I can't hear you.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Right, we have to unmute the mic when we start
talking.
So the question I have actuallyis what is like?
Because we talk aboutretirement, so planning this out
and so on, but what's kind ofwhat is wrong with the current
model of the way people thinkabout retirement?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
That's a great question.
So I remember looking up thedefinition of the word
retirement when I started doingthis and the thing that's really
funny is it was all about likethe end and death and kind of
like.
I'm not dead yet.
Right, right, and we always sayit's the 3G's gardening
(03:10):
grandparents and golf, right.
There's like this set view ofwhat retirement is and the more
people that I talk to about it,the more I realize that, just
like we all are very individual,we really all have a different
like vantage point of it.
And so what ended up happeningit was really interesting is a
(03:36):
bunch of my friends started.
We had worked for years atFidelity Investments and they
offered an early retirementpackage and a bunch of my
friends started taking it.
They were a little bit ahead ofthe game of me and they were
having a blast.
Like the money part ofretirement because we worked at
Fidelity all those years was alltaking.
At least the planning part ofit was all taken care of and
(03:56):
people felt somewhat secured inthat.
But what am I going to do withmy time and who am I going to be
?
The identity part of it wasdaunting and so and I'm talking
about super successful peoplewho really managed their whole
life right, they managed theircareers brilliantly.
(04:17):
You know our definition ofretirement is you go from 60
miles an hour, an overflowingcalendar, to nothing, to this
big open space like right, andit was so overwhelming for some
people.
And my business partner at thetime was my first client.
I didn't even realize it.
(04:38):
She called me up and she's likeI've never been.
She's scratch golf or nevergolf.
Never travel so much.
Everything's great and I'mmiserable.
I've got a lot more gas in thetank and I don't know what I'm
going to do.
And it's because that view ofretirement that we're spoon fed
(04:58):
from day one is the same viewfor all and it's very conforming
and it doesn't really fit.
And so we said you know whatretirement needs a reboot.
And I read this cool articlecalled Designing a Retirement
that Excites you and it reallykind of sparked my interest.
I heard this.
(05:19):
It was kind of like all thesethings came together right.
So I read that article.
I saw this Forbes magazinepiece that said by 2030, all
baby boomers are going to hit 65.
And we're the second that's notfar away.
No, we're the second largestpopulation out there.
Oh, geez Of a generation, right.
(05:42):
But the other thing that'sfascinating that means 10,000
people a day hit retirement age.
Wow, no.
And some of them do it withgrace and others of them do it
with what the heck?
They're frightened and they'reanxious because of the
uncertainty and that kind ofdefinition and view that we've
(06:02):
kind of been socialized aroundall these years, that you know
we should be really excited todo this.
We should stop working at 65.
We should, we should, we shouldright.
What I've learned is you've gotto just know what's right for
you and with a little bit oftools and learning from others
who've gone before you, you candesign a retirement that excites
(06:25):
you, but you can make this someof the most fulfilling part of
your life.
It's just fascinating thestories we've collected.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You know it's so interesting you said earlier on
and I, you know, even when wetalked before this didn't
actually resonate exactly thesame way, but this time you said
it and I was like, oh yeah,because it resonated.
Now, this time I rememberedsomething.
So, you know, a while back, mywife and I, like she had said to
me that you know, I was alwaysworking and I really was
workaholic and it was a problem.
I ended up going, you know,burning out, going to the
(06:57):
hospital, blah, blah.
But that's not the importantpart of the story, because
obviously that's not an issueanymore.
The important part is after thehospital and I come back home
and I'm like, okay, I need tonow work less and like be more
mindful, so that I'm, you know,and so she and she is very good
with boundaries so I'm like,okay, I'm going to clock out at
five.
So I start clocking out at fiveand I swear to God, I'm walking
(07:19):
around in, like, house slippersand pajama pants, being, like,
you know, shuffling things fromone room to another, being like
I literally don't know what todo with myself when I am not
working, and like because I knewI had to, you know, I started
to think about it, right,because and I'm like, oh my God,
like what?
Because I understood what thatmeant.
What that meant was is that Ihad constructed an entire
(07:43):
identity, life goals, scheduleplans, like literally my entire
life is built around this.
And I'm still in it and I'mtaking this time off and I'm
thinking things like I'mworthless, I'm useless, I why
are they?
Even you know like thosestories start to come because
I'm not producing.
So how am I even a valid memberof society, right?
So now I'm thinking to myselfwell, fuck, now I'm 65 and
(08:06):
retiring.
What kind of message have webeen sending the people in our
lives, people that we lovesending people that we love
ourselves?
Right?
That, basically, you need to doall of this is the cap.
I'm like, I feel like I'm goingthrough like this the
capitalist machine at work rightnow, right, where we spend all
of our time working and then itends and then it's just like can
(08:28):
I ask you something?
Does that in your work?
Have you found that that leadsto a lot of depression?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, we have.
There's a lot of statistics onthat and also the other thing
that I think leads to thedepression is the loss of
identity, the loss of purpose,contribution, but also community
, and that's one of the bigthings that we find in our
workshop piece especially isthat they're not in this alone,
(08:54):
but also there's tons ofresearch out there, robert
Waldringer in particular, who'son how, being in community,
people live longer, healthier,there's less percentage of
dementia.
So it's that identity andcommunity pieces that lead to
(09:14):
depression in some people.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
That makes a lot of sense.
Like you know, you're seeingsome of that like even with the
COVID environment where a lot ofpeople working from home you
know you have a subset of peoplelike me who are thriving in the
home environment, but there arepeople who really need these.
But I still have a communityonline and relationships and
that kind of thing.
If you don't know how to builda community online or you don't
feel like you have thatcommunity and now you've lost
(09:39):
the community you had at work,you know there's where a lot of
that depression stuff comes from.
That makes a lot of sense.
Makes a lot of sense.
So when I think about that likeso when you work with your
clients, I'm curious do you everwork with clients who are like
young, like they're like?
You know they're like and whenI say young I mean younger than
what you would somebody who'snot retiring in the next five
(10:00):
years, like someone because thatseems smart to me like a 35
year old who's like help me planfor my retirement.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So it's so fun.
You should say that when wefirst started doing this, it was
very organic, right.
So we threw this my friend, whoyou know, the scratch golfer,
my co-co-partner here in crime,she and she is very schooled in
a methodology that we used a lotat Fidelity and I also was
(10:28):
trained in it.
It's called design thinking andit's basically an innovation
methodology and framework that'sfrom the Stanford Business
School, and the first step isfalling in love with the problem
.
So we started falling in lovewith this problem and we threw
out on LinkedIn hey, doesanybody want to?
(10:49):
You know, here's what we'rethinking.
We want to learn more about it.
And so we had a very wide swathof people that we started
talking to, and it was people atvarious ages and stages.
And what was fascinating is wefirst started looking at people
you know five years out, right.
And then we kind of broadenedit to well, what about those
(11:12):
adjacencies, like people whoalways just had their own
business, right and of course,I'm never going to retire
because I just, you know, theyhave their own gig going on,
right and so we ended up talkingto over 50 people.
So we ended up doing this bigkind of, and then we combed
through like pages and pages andanalyzed our feedback and we
(11:34):
came up with, you know,interesting data.
And so the first thing we cameup with is people fell into
three categories.
Right, there were the peoplethat were overwhelmed and really
like just unsettled, right, andthey were either in retirement
or they were starting to thinkabout retirement, but they just
(11:56):
felt like hopeless, quitefrankly.
And those we had some peoplethat really we did interview,
people who were really depressedI would say would are depressed
even though I'm not a clinician, can't type that right.
Then we had these people in themiddle that were cautiously
optimistic is how we would talkabout them.
And they were the people, likemy brother, who the current view
(12:19):
and the current script onretirement doesn't fit them, but
they know they've got the moneyand they know they should
retire and they probably kind ofwant to scale back, but they
don't know how.
And so they're aiming, aiming,aiming, but they're kicking the
can down and they're not likefiring right they're not,
they're like they're putting itoff.
And then we had these peoplethat we call excited and engaged
(12:41):
, and they were the ones thatwere, oh my goodness, manessa,
kicking it out of the ballpark,right.
We then formed a roadmap and wecame up, we looked at those
guys and we said what is it thatthey do differently?
And we came up with five thingsthat they did differently.
And then we built a workshoparound it and a whole toolkit
(13:04):
around it and a roadmap aroundit and we tested it.
And as we tested it, weiterated with real people, and
the reason why I bring that upis you said what ages?
Everyone always asks me what'sthe sweet spot, right?
So, yeah, you could say one tothree years or three, you know,
one to five years, but we hadpeople who were 10 years out and
(13:25):
they were planners and I alwaysyou know, if it's somebody, if
it's in their consciousness,like someone says who's, who's
the best person for this, I'mlike, well, if someone's
thinking about it and trying todesign it, that's the right
person.
So we've had people, as youknow, in their late 40s, early
50s, all the way, you know, intheir 70s, quite frankly, who
(13:48):
are still hanging on in one ofour corporate classes.
They worked at a company forover 40 years and they were just
, you know, kind of stuck intheir minds about what's next,
because this whole fear of, youknow, losing your identity and
just the anxiety of theuncertainty.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes, the uncertainty is like you know.
I think ultimately, you know,it really does come down to the
uncertainty, but how much do youthink?
Because we don't know what'sgoing to happen.
But I think there's also anelement of like you know, our
society values productivity,right, and like that's like the
pinnacle of all.
And so if you're not producing,like what's your pointless,
(14:27):
useless, worthless right?
And that's not true.
But society we internal, like,and I think about this, you know
, when I think about why Iwouldn't take rest before right,
because, like I wouldn't rest,because if I'm not doing work,
how am I providing value?
And so I feel, like you know,there's an element of education
that needs to happen, because Ididn't want to retire for many
(14:49):
years.
So here's what happened with mylife right, I was like I'm not
retired, fuck retirement.
Who needs to do that?
I don't know.
And I'm always going to work.
I love working, I love my job,that's what I'm going to do.
Right, and my wife was like youknow, she just kept saying
retirement and she's just likeshe's been saving and doing all
of the.
You and my wife, you're justgoing to meet at the conference,
you're going to love each other, and.
But she, you know, and finally,we actually had a conversation
(15:11):
one day where we realized thatthe problem was that we were
defining retirement differentlyand so in her mind, retirement
meant well, let me tell you whatmy mind was.
In my mind, retirement iseverything that we just talked
about.
So basically I die, I'm justnot actually dead yet, so you
haven't really put me in thecoffin, but I'm already dead.
And then I mean, and that sucks, it's a horrible, horrible
(15:32):
philosophy, it's a horriblestory.
The other one, which I reallylike this way better, is when
you have enough money that ispaying for you to live, so that
you can do whatever hell youwant.
And at that point you want tokeep doing your job at Fidelity.
Keep doing your job at Fidelity.
You want to go and become anunderwater basket-weaver?
Go, do that.
(15:52):
You can do literally whateveryou want.
And I said I subscribe to thisphilosophy.
And once we got on the samepage in our definitions, it
moved us in that direction.
I'm wondering how much of yourwork do you do?
That is about moving peoplelike me from one space to the
other.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Huge.
That's the whole thing.
Quite frankly, one of thethings that we always hear from
people and the way I sum it upand you'll get this because
you've worked with a lot ofcoaches is we give people choice
and agency.
The current definition ofretirement doesn't.
It's right, and so what we sayis create your own definition
(16:33):
based on your own personal viewof that We've been dreaming out
of ourselves all these years.
Right, we're on this careerpath.
We're going that way.
What we do is we help peopleenvision and dream.
So we have a very interactivejournal that we bring people
(16:55):
through and a series of modulesthat people go through that
really help them revisit pastthings that they wanted to do or
really start to dream about.
What could this next chapterlook like?
It's so funny.
When you were talking, itreminded me of when I first
started this personally.
(17:15):
My daughter was getting readyto go to college, and so I'm a
career coach.
I work with people as theytransition to vice presidents
and executives, and so I waslike, oh, let me.
So we were talking and I was soblown away by all the cool
resources that were out there tohelp her envision her life, and
(17:38):
I started to think, you know,in the next year.
So I'm going to get the package.
This is cool, I bet there'stons of stuff out there, right?
So that was the tail end of thebaby boomers.
So I'm like I bet there's tonsof stuff out there for people
like me.
And what I found which was soreally disheartening was it was
all about the finances, allabout the finances, nothing
(18:01):
about how I wanted to spend mytime.
And for me that felt backwards,that even though, yes, I had,
you know, I had that kind oflike I had enough support for my
financial planning because ofwhat I did for a living, where I
, where I worked all these years, but it just felt backwards.
In my financial planner I neverforget was like OK, give me the
(18:21):
date, when do you want toretire, where do you want to
live, and I'll give you themoney.
And I'm like the number for themoney and I'm like what do you
mean about retirement?
It's exactly like what yourwife said to you.
For me it just meant I'm notgoing to work as many hours it
didn't, and for her it meantyou're not earning any income.
Yeah, and that's not what itmeant for me.
(18:41):
And until I got that straightwith her and started thinking
about it.
You know, I love the fact I havethe freedom and flexibility to
be an entrepreneur at 61 and trythis thing out and take all of
who I've been my whole life andput it in a different context.
(19:04):
I, you know, I saw this greatquote.
It's I'm not starting fromscratch, I'm starting from
experience.
So I'm not abandoning myidentity, right, it's just the
next, you know, 2.0 of it and adifferent context, right?
(19:24):
One of the cool things we do iswe created a tool called the
life portfolio and just like youhave a portfolio of assets for
your finances and you shift upthe asset allocation at
different stages of your lifewhen my kids go to college, when
my right, whatever you have alife portfolio and the assets
(19:48):
are your time and how you'regoing to spend it.
And so we divide it up into fivesectors and we have you do a
current state analysis and askyourself, is it just right, too
much or not enough?
And then we say, all right, nowlet's dream, let's start to
think about what do you want itto be next?
And so then we that's where webegin our work together, and
(20:10):
then we help people start tothink about well, what are those
little experiments and things Ican do to start to today, no
matter where I am, if it'ssomeone to start to do it
someone 10 years out, two yearsout, three years out, already
retired, wherever you can startdoing that.
So we kind of teach people howto fish instead of giving them a
fish.
It's not one and done right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well, I mean, it is a practice because, like my wife
and I have been having.
So it's funny.
You should say that some of theyou know where you talk about.
You know your life portfolioand sort of like the things that
you want to do and dream and soon.
And what happened out of theconversation that she and I had
about probably 20, like it wasnot very long ago, so it wasn't
last year, it was the yearbefore last, so 2021.
(20:51):
And we went on vacation to AnnaMaria, which was where we got
married and had our honeymoon.
We go every.
Have you ever been?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
No, no, it's in.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Florida.
It's loved.
I mean, it was lovely.
Now it's you know, now whatever, because it's covered in
seaweed.
But I love, love, Anna Maria,when it's not covered in seaweed
it's still going to be gorgeous.
I love you, Anna Maria.
But we were there and we'vealways wanted to live on the
island and or live there.
And then, you know, we werehaving a conversation about
(21:20):
build the life you want to liveand then pay for it.
That's sort of like how shesaid build the life you want to
live and then we save the moneyto pay for it when we retire.
And so I've always wanted tolive by the water.
And we had this great house inFranklin that you know, great
investment, great location.
When the time came for us toretire, we'd be able to sell it,
make a ton of money, blah, blah, blah.
And I said I don't want to waituntil we retire to live by the
(21:41):
ocean, Like I want to live bythe ocean right now.
And so and I finally, I've beentiming this conversation for a
while and in this particular dayI had the language I needed.
I said you keep saying to buildthe life I want to live and
then save for it, the life Iwant to live has a house on the
ocean.
So all I'm saying is, can weget that house now, Right?
And she was like, why don't welook and see?
And that happened to be Rightwhen the rates went down to
(22:05):
almost nothing two years ago andthe house price so like we got
the house on the oceanSpecifically because we went
during that time.
So I think this exercise thatyou're talking about I'm curious
to know when you're, when yourstudents go through it.
Do you often find that theydon't just end up figuring out
things are gonna do inretirement, but they probably
end up with a list of things.
They're like I'm gonna startdoing this now.
Like I'm gonna start potteryclasses now.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Because that's one of the key things that we noticed
and the people that were excitedand engaged.
So so we ended up creating afour-step Proprietary process
that we bring people through,and one was rebalance your life
portfolio, which is what I justspoke up.
Another one that is huge isconnecting to your purpose, and
(22:50):
we all have a purpose, and Iused to believe me.
I got paid a lot of money to goout and look for purpose
workshops and I'll never forget.
I went to one and it was threedays of navel gazing and I left
it with a purpose Statement thatwas perfectly crafted.
I was yeast in the bread oflife, but I was very proud of it
(23:14):
.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I'm gonna say that you, every time I see you enough
.
And you're like you know, lisa,today you look like the yeast
in the bread of life.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You know.
And then I come home it waslike really crazy.
And then, as I was doingresearch for this and heard how
important it was I about purpose, I found this guy's name is
Richard Lider leidee are.
He's fabulous, all kinds of Tedtalks and things Very easy to
look up, and we not onlyleverage our own research, we
also go with adjacencies.
(23:42):
Like I talked about Waldringer,I'm talking about Lider and
what he says is you, we all havea purpose.
It's a part of our DNA.
It's about discovering it andigniting it.
And he said you can find nameyour purpose in five minutes on
the back of a napkin, and he hasthis napkin test.
So we do that.
And then once you've got like,hmm, here are the different
(24:04):
sectors and what I want more andless of in my life, and you
start to think about yourpurpose.
We talk about what you aresaying, which is we coined a new
phrase, we call it activating.
Retry meant.
I meant I love it.
It's all about, like, thosepeople that were excited and
engaged.
They did the little experimentsand many of them did it on the
(24:28):
side of their desk while theywere still working.
They were curious and they justand I did this research that we
started.
I was still working full-timewhen I started doing it, because
I got so many calls from somany people in my life that were
struggling with this and thisis supposed to be the happiest
time of your life, right here,our everything we've worked for
(24:49):
and it's such a like.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Let down.
This is the greatest day of mylife.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Right, and if not, then you, you can.
You can hear it like you hearpeople who are new to it and
they're talking themselves intoit, right, but no one talks
about like this, like it's theshooting, right, no one talks
about.
This can be time of Anxiety andit can be a time that you're
it's a roller coaster, but.
(25:16):
But so we say, start theselittle experiments before and,
if nothing else, you learn whatyou don't want to do, right and
so.
So that's, we do have peopleand and what is so Fulfilling
for me is this silly little lifeportfolio tool that I was doing
on myself and trying to figureout.
(25:38):
It like Ignites people, itmotivates them and engages them,
so it doesn't feel like, oh,I've got to do all this work,
I've got it right.
It's not like a big journal,it's just this little kind of
thing, and what I find is howmuch it it ignites people's
(25:59):
Planning and they're they'reagain sense of adventure,
they're like their imaginationin the lots of ways.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
You know what's interesting?
I you kind of just gave me avision right now, right, and
it's cuz, the vision you gave mewas this, right.
So you talked about trying,right, like trying the little
experiments, and I think youhave people who are prone to
they're like I will try things,I will try anything, I'm not
afraid of what's gonna happen.
And then you have people whoare like I'm afraid of
everything, I'm not tryinganything, because God knows what
(26:28):
can happen.
Now I used to be that secondperson right where I've gotten
so afraid I wouldn't even leavethe house.
I got just completely justhousebound.
I was like I was afraid whatwould happen if I walked out the
door and forget dyeing my hairblue.
Oh my God, that would be insane.
But I think that what's reallygreat about what you're talking
about is almost like, in orderfor someone to know that it is
(26:51):
safe to do those things right,because somebody they have to
feel safe for it this workshopalmost gives you like a here's a
safe environment, there's afence, nothing bad's gonna
happen.
Now let's start doing thisright.
And I think that what happensis is you teach them this one
thing and they practice it, andthen they're like, oh my God,
right.
So they get that dopamine hitand then they realize they're
(27:11):
not gonna die and it is okay,right.
And so like it almost greasesthe wheel now so it primes the
pump so that when you do retireyou're not trying new things,
like it's almost like you know,it's like you're lock off your
head, you know it's like hereyou go, you thud and then now
start everything new.
And now I go back to what yousaid earlier, where you said I'm
(27:32):
not coming in the blank slateLike I brought.
I have a rich history.
There's a whole person here,right.
And then we start to seeourselves instead of somebody
who is just closing the lid onlife and say, okay, now what
it's, oh my God, I created allof these things.
What am I gonna do with thesethings now?
Like, how am I gonna use thesethings now?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I love what you just said, because, for me, one
of the things I love aboutbeing in my 60s I have to be
really honest with you and Idon't often think of the number,
but what I love about where Iam in my life maybe I should say
right now is I always wentthrough life with FOMO, right,
fear of missing out.
So I jam-packed, I fit, youknow, and I still sometimes to
(28:15):
this day, because I've got such,you know, a freedom of schedule
, but I and I like having acertain level of activity.
Like you know, I'm atpickleball three times a week,
I'm playing golf a couple oftimes a week, I'm on my spin
bike.
You know that's me, though.
But what I love is it gives meat this point, to say, meh, I
(28:38):
don't wanna do that, yeah, oryes, I do and I'll make time for
it.
And I feel like, instead ofletting that opportunity or that
ask drive me, I put that askthrough my filter and I'm able
to say is this gonna?
You know, even like I stillhave folks reaching out to me
(29:01):
and I do some work on the sidemy coaching practice for
executives or, you know, as theytransition a career coaching
practice, and I'm affiliatedwith a company that does that,
and but there are times whenpeople will reach out to me and
they'll be like, oh, can you dothis for me?
Like I'd love it because I'vedone contract work for them, and
I'm like, yeah, no, never.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Ever wanna be like I don't wanna do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Right, yeah, I'm not doing performance management
ever again.
Sorry, I know, I used to loveit, no.
And so there's something aboutgetting so solid on like my life
portfolio and my purpose andit's like is that gonna cause
that's gonna fulfill me?
Yeah, that's gonna.
You know it's not a job, then,manessa.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know what I mean.
It's so.
It's a passion, it's a purpose,it's motivating, right.
It's different.
I'm fortunate my career did alot of that for me.
It sounds like yours did too.
I was well fitted for what I dofor a living, but I did too
much of it, or I started to.
You know you're in a bigcompany and there's.
You know I play well withothers, so I know the whole
(30:07):
political landscaping can do it,but that's a lot of energy.
Who wants to?
You know I'm like, yeah, Inever wanna do that anymore.
I don't wanna do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I'll help you-.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
This is why I love you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
This is absolutely why I wanna join the podcast,
cause, like I feel you so hard.
I love that you can like cause,like really that's the freedom,
right.
And when you talk aboutretirement like this, I'm like,
dude, I can't wait to retire.
So now my wife and I are alwayslike.
I'm like the other day she saidwe reached, so we hit like a
number in our retirement assets.
And she's like, right now, ifwe retired today, we get $1,000
(30:38):
every month for the rest of ourlives.
And I'm like woo-hoo.
I was like, can we retire?
No, I'm not yet, but like, butstill, we made a huge milestone,
so okay.
So I'm curious, you know, as westart to sort of wind down, I'm
actually curious to know alittle bit more about.
So you mentioned earlier thatyou work with people one-on-one,
you have workshops, you havethings like that.
So I sort of like, what are themodalities in which you work
with people?
(30:58):
And like, how does that work?
You know, cause, like there'sso many different ways.
It seems like you're gonnaapply this.
I'd be curious to know what thedifferent ones are and how that
goes.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, before I jump in there, this is a little
backdrop and it's so funnysomething you just said that got
me to think about this.
It's the financial piece, right, and it's like which comes
first.
It feels very chicken egg,right.
So recently we've beenapproached by a couple of
financial services planningfirms because they're even
noticing that there are peoplein their population of clients
(31:31):
that have the money but arereluctant to retire.
And they're saying, if we'rereally they're very caring and
holistic financial planningorganizations and they're saying
, if we really are doing our job, we wanna help people more
holistically.
And there's a whole holisticretirement planning movement
(31:55):
that's coming out of thatfinancial services industry and
not a lot of them are there, butyou see that.
So we've got two things it'sstarting, it's delicious
Starting and what's neat aboutit is they're loving our stuff
and they're saying, hey, thereare ways we can partner together
, which is really kind of cool,right.
So we offer, I'd say, twoavenues to get our stuff.
(32:19):
One is for individuals.
We offer what we call jumpstarter and jump starter plus.
We have an online learningplatform and it's built.
There are six modules thatbring you through our roadmap.
You get a lifetime access toall our stuff because we're big
on this should never be one anddone.
(32:41):
You should try things as you goso you get all our modules.
There are articles from likeHarvard Business Review, forbes,
ted Talks, youtube videos fromall types of people that are in
this space that we've includedin our roadmap.
(33:05):
We have online learning videosthat we've created.
We have a very detailed butengaging learning journal that's
a guide that takes you throughthose six modules if you will,
and so you can do that all byyourself online on your own, and
we call that jump starter.
(33:25):
Now there are some people thatreally love to do this and be
held accountable and they lovethe coaching element.
So we built Jumpstarter Plusand we put in three coaching
sessions so you meet and thenthere's like an introductory
session at the beginning andthen at strategic points along
(33:46):
the way, there's three sessionswhere you meet with a coach, and
that coach is an accountabilitycoach, if you will, and
oftentimes people will then sayI want to keep this up and
they'll buy another package thatwould add on that makes sense,
it does, it really does.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It's great, but I feel like if you really want to
like turn it into a lifetimehabit, you want to spend that
time like just to make sure it'sreally there.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yes, and we want to make sure that we people access
this in a way that they canconsume it for themselves.
And we know that it's veryindividual, so we didn't want to
handcuff people to getting thecoaching, and so we did it in
two ways.
One is no coaching, one is withcoaching.
I love that You're that firstand then add on coaching, and
(34:30):
all our coaches are people likethat livid, they walk the talk.
So you might be too young forthis, but I always say so.
I'm really dating myself.
There was this guy and his namewas Syce Burling and he did the
Hair Club for Men.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh, my God, oh, the Hair Club for Men.
I'm not as young as I look.
That's hysterical.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
The headline was I'm not only the president, I am
also one of our key clients.
I remember that.
Oh my God, I remember his voice.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
It's all coming back to me now.
I love this and the link isgoing to be in the show notes.
Everyone who wants to hear hisdelightful voice again?
Oh my gosh, it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
So my business partner Nanay and I I always say
that to her I'm like we are theguinea pigs, right, we do this.
So we've got all of that Pluswe've run this through six times
before we finalized it and weiterated it with real people.
And going through all of thisThen we've started to get some
interest from employers Reallyinteresting people who were like
(35:29):
we want to help people fromlike a diversity and inclusion,
like at all stages and agesalong their career journey in
our company.
And so we know people arehanging in there because of this
uncertainty, but we want themto be able to have the freedom
and flexibility to move on.
And so how do we do that?
(35:49):
And so we have created thisaccelerator workshop, which is
six weeks.
We meet once a week and bringthem through everything that's
in Jumpstarter.
Just we do it live.
They have access to it all onthe learning platform.
Like Jumpstarter they also can.
But the added bonus from thatis they do it in a community and
(36:13):
we've done it as an openenrollment.
It's just hard to kind of geteverybody on the same day.
It's much easier to havesomeone buy a workshop and they,
you know, have they fill it,but it is so powerful when
you're with other people at thesame right that are absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Especially if they're all in the same area.
You ask the.
You learn so much just from thequestions people ask, like it's
10 folds 12, I'd so much betterLike.
I would always recommend doingthat.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And if they're in the same company, it's even we've
found even stronger.
And man talk about the brandloyalty and ambassadorship.
When these people leave, yeah,and they're even saying, oh my
gosh, all my friends are sayingI've never heard of a company
that does this for their folks.
And again, everyone gets totalaccess, lifetime access to all
(37:02):
our stuff, so that one is likeour community and we call it
accelerator.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I love it.
Love it, and you know somethingyou said earlier where you were
talking about diversity andinclusion and like making sure
that people at all ages aretaken care of.
You know, I 'm not on demandthroughout the year, but as I
was preparing for this podcastand I was really reflecting upon
our previous conversation, Ieven wrote this down because I
didn't want to say it wrong,because I thought I thought
about something that I realizedI've been talking, you know,
I've been talking to so manypeople lately who are, um, you
(37:30):
know, and we've been seeing somany people in the world right
now, so many differentbackgrounds, that I think that
they're all speaking about thisstory that we've told this way,
that it's been, is not okay,right, and so I think what we're
seeing happening in the worldright now is like a collective
rejection of the status quo that, like, is related to gender,
(37:52):
race, sexuality, age, mentalhealth, disability, like the
people in those groups aresaying you know what?
We are absolutely done with thestory that was written long
before we were even born aboutwho we are, what we can do, how
we should retire.
People are tired of livingunder the societal belief
systems that are assigned to usby default, right, and so I feel
(38:12):
like every person I talk to issomeone who, like yourself, for
a group of people, has said nomore, like we're done.
We are moving into a differentspace, which I feel like so much
, like the millennials right now, or like the generations that
are coming, that, like mygeneration, like so Gen X, like
so, I'm like a few years, like77.
(38:34):
So I'm like right at the end ofGen X, a couple of years, and
but, like my generation, isgoing to reap many of the
rewards from what it is that youguys are doing at the end of
the boomer generation for whatyou're creating right now,
because by the time my groupstarts to retire, right, or you
will have all these systems inplace so you will be able to be
(38:55):
like, listen, we put this inplace that you didn't have to
suffer like we did.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
We are like trailblazers, right.
I love that so much.
I did so I'll be like dude.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I'm retired.
I'm retired from retiring, I'mdoing something else.
Now, you know and that'sactually the joy when I think
about myself in terms of my life, right, and I don't know what
your separations would be, butin my mind, about every seven to
10 years, I'm a differentperson and have a whole
different set of things, right?
So if you retire at 60, there'slike three different people you
(39:32):
can be right.
So it's like you know, no, Imean like, and if you decide in
the story in your mind you'relike, hey, it's ended.
Then there's three whole peoplethat you're not going to be
able to be because you alreadydecided that.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
So that's what really .
That's brilliant that youcaught that, because that really
jazzes me.
So my purpose is I love andhave always loved to.
This is what it turned intofrom the yeast in the bread of
life, bs, right, I just love tohelp people live to their
potential.
I love that.
(40:04):
That's just.
It hooks me right, and so I'vedone it throughout my whole
career.
Silly things like when I firsthad the first training job I
ever had was helping people witha new customer service computer
program and when they couldn'tmake sense of it, I make sense
of it and help them with that.
(40:24):
To my job as a corporateexecutive, helping people as
they become executives.
Right To my, the way I'veparented my kids and launched
them off to college, and myrecent grad who just graduated
college right In my marriage.
(40:45):
Like, when I think about it andI look back the role I play
with my siblings, I'm always theone who's that.
You know the helping themdiscover their purpose and and
do it in a way that's nottraditional, like why can't you?
You know, my brother is, is 67and everyone.
(41:06):
He's like the oldest person,he's number one sales guy, he's
always winning awards, blah,blah, blah.
And his boss is like pleasedon't retire, please don't
retire, please don't retire.
And my brother's like I got themoney I can retire, I should
retire it.
And I'm like stop, like stop.
What do you love?
And he goes this is what I go.
What do you love about your job?
Cut a deal with him.
Tell him that's what you wantto do.
(41:27):
Work a couple of days less,don't he goes.
I hate, I go.
What do you hate?
I hate all the new systems.
I'm like I bet he'd hiresomeone because you bring in the
box.
He has to like, do their ownsystem and turn up, hasn't he
said that?
He goes, tony, and so it's likethat, right, it's just so cool
to connect to your purpose, tosee it out there.
(41:49):
And for me, I don't know when I,when I'm going to stop this.
I just like you, every coupleof years I'll figure it out how
much, how little, and it's stilljazzing me.
What's what's bringing me?
You know like, and do I stillhave time for the things for?
You know, if I just want toplay, this time, you know?
And giving back, like you and Iserve on a board, that's big
(42:11):
for me.
I couldn't always do that whenI worked full time.
So it's one of those things inmy life portfolio.
When I look at those fivesectors, there's like a
spirituality section right,there's a physical kind of
section.
There's relationships, familyand friends right, there's work.
What I feel is, and why I callwork, it's contribution.
(42:33):
It might not be for money, butit's like how do I contribute to
society?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Oh, my God, love that , love that so much.
It has been such a glorioustime talking to you today.
I wanted to ask really quick ifpeople were willing to work
with you.
Where can they find you?
Sure, our work.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
My website is thefutureofyoucom and if anyone
wants to speak to me personally,it's lisa at thefutureofyoucom.
That's my email.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Fabulous, and we'll have all of those in the show
notes.
Lisa, thank you so much forjoining me today.
This was absolutely fabulous.
I cannot wait to get this upthere.
Thank you again.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Oh, thank you so much , Vanessa.
Take care now.
This is my first time using this particular platform,
so I'm actually very curious tosee how it all plays out.
So thank you for being myguinea pig today.
Lisa, hello, it is so good tohave you here on the Stop
Shitting All Over Yourselfpodcast.
Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How are you today?
Oh, I'm great.
I'm looking forward to ourconversation.
Thank you for asking me.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh, dude, after our conversation.
So the reason why I asked Lisaon was because we were at an
event where we were at thelibrary, the elementary library.
We're all sitting there talkingand you said something about
and I'm not going to do itjustice, I'm sure it will come
out today but you said somethingabout how people think of
retirement as the end of theirlives and they sort of they
(00:52):
struggle with what do I do afterI retire and how there's such a
more joyful way of thinkingabout retirement and I was like,
oh my god, my wife talks aboutthis kind of thing all the time.
I was like I had that problemand I used to look at it in such
a negative way.
And Lisa has this perspectivethat is like your life kind of
(01:13):
begins at retirement.
Right, it's like, well, I don'teven call it retirement, but
we'll come to that later.
So, lisa, I'd love to hear alittle bit about what you do.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Sure.
So I have a huge background inleadership development and
coaching and it was all aroundlike career coaching and so.
But what I do now is kind of anextension of that, and so a
very good friend and colleagueof mine we'd worked together for
over 20 years we started thisbusiness about three years ago
(01:42):
called the Future of you, andbasically what the Future of you
does is it provides a roadmapand resources to help people
really think about this nextchapter and to reinvent and
create a personalized view ofwhat retirement looks like for
them.
And we do it through a lot ofthings, but for the most part,
(02:06):
we have either some onlineresources and a roadmap and a
toolkit that folks can use, andthen we also have employer
sponsored programs where we doworkshops for companies.
Oh, vanessa, I can't hear you.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Right, we have to unmute the mic when we start
talking.
So the question I have actuallyis what is like?
Because we talk aboutretirement, so planning this out
and so on, but what's kind ofwhat is wrong with the current
model of the way people thinkabout retirement?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
That's a great question.
So I remember looking up thedefinition of the word
retirement when I started doingthis and the thing that's really
funny is it was all about likethe end and death and kind of
like.
I'm not dead yet.
Right, right, and we always sayit's the 3G's gardening
(03:10):
grandparents and golf, right.
There's like this set view ofwhat retirement is and the more
people that I talk to about it,the more I realize that, just
like we all are very individual,we really all have a different
like vantage point of it.
And so what ended up happeningit was really interesting is a
(03:36):
bunch of my friends started.
We had worked for years atFidelity Investments and they
offered an early retirementpackage and a bunch of my
friends started taking it.
They were a little bit ahead ofthe game of me and they were
having a blast.
Like the money part ofretirement because we worked at
Fidelity all those years was alltaking.
At least the planning part ofit was all taken care of and
(03:56):
people felt somewhat secured inthat.
But what am I going to do withmy time and who am I going to be
?
The identity part of it wasdaunting and so and I'm talking
about super successful peoplewho really managed their whole
life right, they managed theircareers brilliantly.
(04:17):
You know our definition ofretirement is you go from 60
miles an hour, an overflowingcalendar, to nothing, to this
big open space like right, andit was so overwhelming for some
people.
And my business partner at thetime was my first client.
I didn't even realize it.
(04:38):
She called me up and she's likeI've never been.
She's scratch golf or nevergolf.
Never travel so much.
Everything's great and I'mmiserable.
I've got a lot more gas in thetank and I don't know what I'm
going to do.
And it's because that view ofretirement that we're spoon fed
(04:58):
from day one is the same viewfor all and it's very conforming
and it doesn't really fit.
And so we said you know whatretirement needs a reboot.
And I read this cool articlecalled Designing a Retirement
that Excites you and it reallykind of sparked my interest.
I heard this.
(05:19):
It was kind of like all thesethings came together right.
So I read that article.
I saw this Forbes magazinepiece that said by 2030, all
baby boomers are going to hit 65.
And we're the second that's notfar away.
No, we're the second largestpopulation out there.
Oh, geez Of a generation, right.
(05:42):
But the other thing that'sfascinating that means 10,000
people a day hit retirement age.
Wow, no.
And some of them do it withgrace and others of them do it
with what the heck?
They're frightened and they'reanxious because of the
uncertainty and that kind ofdefinition and view that we've
(06:02):
kind of been socialized aroundall these years, that you know
we should be really excited todo this.
We should stop working at 65.
We should, we should, we shouldright.
What I've learned is you've gotto just know what's right for
you and with a little bit oftools and learning from others
who've gone before you, you candesign a retirement that excites
(06:25):
you, but you can make this someof the most fulfilling part of
your life.
It's just fascinating thestories we've collected.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You know it's so interesting you said earlier on
and I, you know, even when wetalked before this didn't
actually resonate exactly thesame way, but this time you said
it and I was like, oh yeah,because it resonated.
Now, this time I rememberedsomething.
So, you know, a while back, mywife and I, like she had said to
me that you know, I was alwaysworking and I really was
workaholic and it was a problem.
I ended up going, you know,burning out, going to the
(06:57):
hospital, blah, blah.
But that's not the importantpart of the story, because
obviously that's not an issueanymore.
The important part is after thehospital and I come back home
and I'm like, okay, I need tonow work less and like be more
mindful, so that I'm, you know,and so she and she is very good
with boundaries so I'm like,okay, I'm going to clock out at
five.
So I start clocking out at fiveand I swear to God, I'm walking
(07:19):
around in, like, house slippersand pajama pants, being, like,
you know, shuffling things fromone room to another, being like
I literally don't know what todo with myself when I am not
working, and like because I knewI had to, you know, I started
to think about it, right,because and I'm like, oh my God,
like what?
Because I understood what thatmeant.
What that meant was is that Ihad constructed an entire
(07:43):
identity, life goals, scheduleplans, like literally my entire
life is built around this.
And I'm still in it and I'mtaking this time off and I'm
thinking things like I'mworthless, I'm useless, I why
are they?
Even you know like thosestories start to come because
I'm not producing.
So how am I even a valid memberof society, right?
So now I'm thinking to myselfwell, fuck, now I'm 65 and
(08:06):
retiring.
What kind of message have webeen sending the people in our
lives, people that we lovesending people that we love
ourselves?
Right?
That, basically, you need to doall of this is the cap.
I'm like, I feel like I'm goingthrough like this the
capitalist machine at work rightnow, right, where we spend all
of our time working and then itends and then it's just like can
(08:28):
I ask you something?
Does that in your work?
Have you found that that leadsto a lot of depression?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, we have.
There's a lot of statistics onthat and also the other thing
that I think leads to thedepression is the loss of
identity, the loss of purpose,contribution, but also community
, and that's one of the bigthings that we find in our
workshop piece especially isthat they're not in this alone,
(08:54):
but also there's tons ofresearch out there, robert
Waldringer in particular, who'son how, being in community,
people live longer, healthier,there's less percentage of
dementia.
So it's that identity andcommunity pieces that lead to
(09:14):
depression in some people.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
That makes a lot of sense.
Like you know, you're seeingsome of that like even with the
COVID environment where a lot ofpeople working from home you
know you have a subset of peoplelike me who are thriving in the
home environment, but there arepeople who really need these.
But I still have a communityonline and relationships and
that kind of thing.
If you don't know how to builda community online or you don't
feel like you have thatcommunity and now you've lost
(09:39):
the community you had at work,you know there's where a lot of
that depression stuff comes from.
That makes a lot of sense.
Makes a lot of sense.
So when I think about that likeso when you work with your
clients, I'm curious do you everwork with clients who are like
young, like they're like?
You know they're like and whenI say young I mean younger than
what you would somebody who'snot retiring in the next five
(10:00):
years, like someone because thatseems smart to me like a 35
year old who's like help me planfor my retirement.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So it's so fun.
You should say that when wefirst started doing this, it was
very organic, right.
So we threw this my friend, whoyou know, the scratch golfer,
my co-co-partner here in crime,she and she is very schooled in
a methodology that we used a lotat Fidelity and I also was
(10:28):
trained in it.
It's called design thinking andit's basically an innovation
methodology and framework that'sfrom the Stanford Business
School, and the first step isfalling in love with the problem
.
So we started falling in lovewith this problem and we threw
out on LinkedIn hey, doesanybody want to?
(10:49):
You know, here's what we'rethinking.
We want to learn more about it.
And so we had a very wide swathof people that we started
talking to, and it was people atvarious ages and stages.
And what was fascinating is wefirst started looking at people
you know five years out, right.
And then we kind of broadenedit to well, what about those
(11:12):
adjacencies, like people whoalways just had their own
business, right and of course,I'm never going to retire
because I just, you know, theyhave their own gig going on,
right and so we ended up talkingto over 50 people.
So we ended up doing this bigkind of, and then we combed
through like pages and pages andanalyzed our feedback and we
(11:34):
came up with, you know,interesting data.
And so the first thing we cameup with is people fell into
three categories.
Right, there were the peoplethat were overwhelmed and really
like just unsettled, right, andthey were either in retirement
or they were starting to thinkabout retirement, but they just
(11:56):
felt like hopeless, quitefrankly.
And those we had some peoplethat really we did interview,
people who were really depressedI would say would are depressed
even though I'm not a clinician, can't type that right.
Then we had these people in themiddle that were cautiously
optimistic is how we would talkabout them.
And they were the people, likemy brother, who the current view
(12:19):
and the current script onretirement doesn't fit them, but
they know they've got the moneyand they know they should
retire and they probably kind ofwant to scale back, but they
don't know how.
And so they're aiming, aiming,aiming, but they're kicking the
can down and they're not likefiring right they're not,
they're like they're putting itoff.
And then we had these peoplethat we call excited and engaged
(12:41):
, and they were the ones thatwere, oh my goodness, manessa,
kicking it out of the ballpark,right.
We then formed a roadmap and wecame up, we looked at those
guys and we said what is it thatthey do differently?
And we came up with five thingsthat they did differently.
And then we built a workshoparound it and a whole toolkit
(13:04):
around it and a roadmap aroundit and we tested it.
And as we tested it, weiterated with real people, and
the reason why I bring that upis you said what ages?
Everyone always asks me what'sthe sweet spot, right?
So, yeah, you could say one tothree years or three, you know,
one to five years, but we hadpeople who were 10 years out and
(13:25):
they were planners and I alwaysyou know, if it's somebody, if
it's in their consciousness,like someone says who's, who's
the best person for this, I'mlike, well, if someone's
thinking about it and trying todesign it, that's the right
person.
So we've had people, as youknow, in their late 40s, early
50s, all the way, you know, intheir 70s, quite frankly, who
(13:48):
are still hanging on in one ofour corporate classes.
They worked at a company forover 40 years and they were just
, you know, kind of stuck intheir minds about what's next,
because this whole fear of, youknow, losing your identity and
just the anxiety of theuncertainty.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes, the uncertainty is like you know.
I think ultimately, you know,it really does come down to the
uncertainty, but how much do youthink?
Because we don't know what'sgoing to happen.
But I think there's also anelement of like you know, our
society values productivity,right, and like that's like the
pinnacle of all.
And so if you're not producing,like what's your pointless,
(14:27):
useless, worthless right?
And that's not true.
But society we internal, like,and I think about this, you know
, when I think about why Iwouldn't take rest before right,
because, like I wouldn't rest,because if I'm not doing work,
how am I providing value?
And so I feel, like you know,there's an element of education
that needs to happen, because Ididn't want to retire for many
(14:49):
years.
So here's what happened with mylife right, I was like I'm not
retired, fuck retirement.
Who needs to do that?
I don't know.
And I'm always going to work.
I love working, I love my job,that's what I'm going to do.
Right, and my wife was like youknow, she just kept saying
retirement and she's just likeshe's been saving and doing all
of the.
You and my wife, you're justgoing to meet at the conference,
you're going to love each other, and.
But she, you know, and finally,we actually had a conversation
(15:11):
one day where we realized thatthe problem was that we were
defining retirement differentlyand so in her mind, retirement
meant well, let me tell you whatmy mind was.
In my mind, retirement iseverything that we just talked
about.
So basically I die, I'm justnot actually dead yet, so you
haven't really put me in thecoffin, but I'm already dead.
And then I mean, and that sucks, it's a horrible, horrible
(15:32):
philosophy, it's a horriblestory.
The other one, which I reallylike this way better, is when
you have enough money that ispaying for you to live, so that
you can do whatever hell youwant.
And at that point you want tokeep doing your job at Fidelity.
Keep doing your job at Fidelity.
You want to go and become anunderwater basket-weaver?
Go, do that.
(15:52):
You can do literally whateveryou want.
And I said I subscribe to thisphilosophy.
And once we got on the samepage in our definitions, it
moved us in that direction.
I'm wondering how much of yourwork do you do?
That is about moving peoplelike me from one space to the
other.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Huge.
That's the whole thing.
Quite frankly, one of thethings that we always hear from
people and the way I sum it upand you'll get this because
you've worked with a lot ofcoaches is we give people choice
and agency.
The current definition ofretirement doesn't.
It's right, and so what we sayis create your own definition
(16:33):
based on your own personal viewof that We've been dreaming out
of ourselves all these years.
Right, we're on this careerpath.
We're going that way.
What we do is we help peopleenvision and dream.
So we have a very interactivejournal that we bring people
(16:55):
through and a series of modulesthat people go through that
really help them revisit pastthings that they wanted to do or
really start to dream about.
What could this next chapterlook like?
It's so funny.
When you were talking, itreminded me of when I first
started this personally.
(17:15):
My daughter was getting readyto go to college, and so I'm a
career coach.
I work with people as theytransition to vice presidents
and executives, and so I waslike, oh, let me.
So we were talking and I was soblown away by all the cool
resources that were out there tohelp her envision her life, and
(17:38):
I started to think, you know,in the next year.
So I'm going to get the package.
This is cool, I bet there'stons of stuff out there, right?
So that was the tail end of thebaby boomers.
So I'm like I bet there's tonsof stuff out there for people
like me.
And what I found which was soreally disheartening was it was
all about the finances, allabout the finances, nothing
(18:01):
about how I wanted to spend mytime.
And for me that felt backwards,that even though, yes, I had,
you know, I had that kind oflike I had enough support for my
financial planning because ofwhat I did for a living, where I
, where I worked all these years, but it just felt backwards.
In my financial planner I neverforget was like OK, give me the
(18:21):
date, when do you want toretire, where do you want to
live, and I'll give you themoney.
And I'm like the number for themoney and I'm like what do you
mean about retirement?
It's exactly like what yourwife said to you.
For me it just meant I'm notgoing to work as many hours it
didn't, and for her it meantyou're not earning any income.
Yeah, and that's not what itmeant for me.
(18:41):
And until I got that straightwith her and started thinking
about it.
You know, I love the fact I havethe freedom and flexibility to
be an entrepreneur at 61 and trythis thing out and take all of
who I've been my whole life andput it in a different context.
(19:04):
I, you know, I saw this greatquote.
It's I'm not starting fromscratch, I'm starting from
experience.
So I'm not abandoning myidentity, right, it's just the
next, you know, 2.0 of it and adifferent context, right?
(19:24):
One of the cool things we do iswe created a tool called the
life portfolio and just like youhave a portfolio of assets for
your finances and you shift upthe asset allocation at
different stages of your lifewhen my kids go to college, when
my right, whatever you have alife portfolio and the assets
(19:48):
are your time and how you'regoing to spend it.
And so we divide it up into fivesectors and we have you do a
current state analysis and askyourself, is it just right, too
much or not enough?
And then we say, all right, nowlet's dream, let's start to
think about what do you want itto be next?
And so then we that's where webegin our work together, and
(20:10):
then we help people start tothink about well, what are those
little experiments and things Ican do to start to today, no
matter where I am, if it'ssomeone to start to do it
someone 10 years out, two yearsout, three years out, already
retired, wherever you can startdoing that.
So we kind of teach people howto fish instead of giving them a
fish.
It's not one and done right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well, I mean, it is a practice because, like my wife
and I have been having.
So it's funny.
You should say that some of theyou know where you talk about.
You know your life portfolioand sort of like the things that
you want to do and dream and soon.
And what happened out of theconversation that she and I had
about probably 20, like it wasnot very long ago, so it wasn't
last year, it was the yearbefore last, so 2021.
(20:51):
And we went on vacation to AnnaMaria, which was where we got
married and had our honeymoon.
We go every.
Have you ever been?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
No, no, it's in.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Florida.
It's loved.
I mean, it was lovely.
Now it's you know, now whatever, because it's covered in
seaweed.
But I love, love, Anna Maria,when it's not covered in seaweed
it's still going to be gorgeous.
I love you, Anna Maria.
But we were there and we'vealways wanted to live on the
island and or live there.
And then, you know, we werehaving a conversation about
(21:20):
build the life you want to liveand then pay for it.
That's sort of like how shesaid build the life you want to
live and then we save the moneyto pay for it when we retire.
And so I've always wanted tolive by the water.
And we had this great house inFranklin that you know, great
investment, great location.
When the time came for us toretire, we'd be able to sell it,
make a ton of money, blah, blah, blah.
And I said I don't want to waituntil we retire to live by the
(21:41):
ocean, Like I want to live bythe ocean right now.
And so and I finally, I've beentiming this conversation for a
while and in this particular dayI had the language I needed.
I said you keep saying to buildthe life I want to live and
then save for it, the life Iwant to live has a house on the
ocean.
So all I'm saying is, can weget that house now, Right?
And she was like, why don't welook and see?
And that happened to be Rightwhen the rates went down to
(22:05):
almost nothing two years ago andthe house price so like we got
the house on the oceanSpecifically because we went
during that time.
So I think this exercise thatyou're talking about I'm curious
to know when you're, when yourstudents go through it.
Do you often find that theydon't just end up figuring out
things are gonna do inretirement, but they probably
end up with a list of things.
They're like I'm gonna startdoing this now.
Like I'm gonna start potteryclasses now.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Because that's one of the key things that we noticed
and the people that were excitedand engaged.
So so we ended up creating afour-step Proprietary process
that we bring people through,and one was rebalance your life
portfolio, which is what I justspoke up.
Another one that is huge isconnecting to your purpose, and
(22:50):
we all have a purpose, and Iused to believe me.
I got paid a lot of money to goout and look for purpose
workshops and I'll never forget.
I went to one and it was threedays of navel gazing and I left
it with a purpose Statement thatwas perfectly crafted.
I was yeast in the bread oflife, but I was very proud of it
(23:14):
.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I'm gonna say that you, every time I see you enough
.
And you're like you know, lisa,today you look like the yeast
in the bread of life.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You know.
And then I come home it waslike really crazy.
And then, as I was doingresearch for this and heard how
important it was I about purpose, I found this guy's name is
Richard Lider leidee are.
He's fabulous, all kinds of Tedtalks and things Very easy to
look up, and we not onlyleverage our own research, we
also go with adjacencies.
(23:42):
Like I talked about Waldringer,I'm talking about Lider and
what he says is you, we all havea purpose.
It's a part of our DNA.
It's about discovering it andigniting it.
And he said you can find nameyour purpose in five minutes on
the back of a napkin, and he hasthis napkin test.
So we do that.
And then once you've got like,hmm, here are the different
(24:04):
sectors and what I want more andless of in my life, and you
start to think about yourpurpose.
We talk about what you aresaying, which is we coined a new
phrase, we call it activating.
Retry meant.
I meant I love it.
It's all about, like, thosepeople that were excited and
engaged.
They did the little experimentsand many of them did it on the
(24:28):
side of their desk while theywere still working.
They were curious and they justand I did this research that we
started.
I was still working full-timewhen I started doing it, because
I got so many calls from somany people in my life that were
struggling with this and thisis supposed to be the happiest
time of your life, right here,our everything we've worked for
(24:49):
and it's such a like.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Let down.
This is the greatest day of mylife.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Right, and if not, then you, you can.
You can hear it like you hearpeople who are new to it and
they're talking themselves intoit, right, but no one talks
about like this, like it's theshooting, right, no one talks
about.
This can be time of Anxiety andit can be a time that you're
it's a roller coaster, but.
(25:16):
But so we say, start theselittle experiments before and,
if nothing else, you learn whatyou don't want to do, right and
so.
So that's, we do have peopleand and what is so Fulfilling
for me is this silly little lifeportfolio tool that I was doing
on myself and trying to figureout.
(25:38):
It like Ignites people, itmotivates them and engages them,
so it doesn't feel like, oh,I've got to do all this work,
I've got it right.
It's not like a big journal,it's just this little kind of
thing, and what I find is howmuch it it ignites people's
(25:59):
Planning and they're they'reagain sense of adventure,
they're like their imaginationin the lots of ways.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
You know what's interesting?
I you kind of just gave me avision right now, right, and
it's cuz, the vision you gave mewas this, right.
So you talked about trying,right, like trying the little
experiments, and I think youhave people who are prone to
they're like I will try things,I will try anything, I'm not
afraid of what's gonna happen.
And then you have people whoare like I'm afraid of
everything, I'm not tryinganything, because God knows what
(26:28):
can happen.
Now I used to be that secondperson right where I've gotten
so afraid I wouldn't even leavethe house.
I got just completely justhousebound.
I was like I was afraid whatwould happen if I walked out the
door and forget dyeing my hairblue.
Oh my God, that would be insane.
But I think that what's reallygreat about what you're talking
about is almost like, in orderfor someone to know that it is
(26:51):
safe to do those things right,because somebody they have to
feel safe for it this workshopalmost gives you like a here's a
safe environment, there's afence, nothing bad's gonna
happen.
Now let's start doing thisright.
And I think that what happensis is you teach them this one
thing and they practice it, andthen they're like, oh my God,
right.
So they get that dopamine hitand then they realize they're
(27:11):
not gonna die and it is okay,right.
And so like it almost greasesthe wheel now so it primes the
pump so that when you do retireyou're not trying new things,
like it's almost like you know,it's like you're lock off your
head, you know it's like hereyou go, you thud and then now
start everything new.
And now I go back to what yousaid earlier, where you said I'm
(27:32):
not coming in the blank slateLike I brought.
I have a rich history.
There's a whole person here,right.
And then we start to seeourselves instead of somebody
who is just closing the lid onlife and say, okay, now what
it's, oh my God, I created allof these things.
What am I gonna do with thesethings now?
Like, how am I gonna use thesethings now?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I love what you just said, because, for me, one
of the things I love aboutbeing in my 60s I have to be
really honest with you and Idon't often think of the number,
but what I love about where Iam in my life maybe I should say
right now is I always wentthrough life with FOMO, right,
fear of missing out.
So I jam-packed, I fit, youknow, and I still sometimes to
(28:15):
this day, because I've got such,you know, a freedom of schedule
, but I and I like having acertain level of activity.
Like you know, I'm atpickleball three times a week,
I'm playing golf a couple oftimes a week, I'm on my spin
bike.
You know that's me, though.
But what I love is it gives meat this point, to say, meh, I
(28:38):
don't wanna do that, yeah, oryes, I do and I'll make time for
it.
And I feel like, instead ofletting that opportunity or that
ask drive me, I put that askthrough my filter and I'm able
to say is this gonna?
You know, even like I stillhave folks reaching out to me
(29:01):
and I do some work on the sidemy coaching practice for
executives or, you know, as theytransition a career coaching
practice, and I'm affiliatedwith a company that does that,
and but there are times whenpeople will reach out to me and
they'll be like, oh, can you dothis for me?
Like I'd love it because I'vedone contract work for them, and
I'm like, yeah, no, never.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Ever wanna be like I don't wanna do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Right, yeah, I'm not doing performance management
ever again.
Sorry, I know, I used to loveit, no.
And so there's something aboutgetting so solid on like my life
portfolio and my purpose andit's like is that gonna cause
that's gonna fulfill me?
Yeah, that's gonna.
You know it's not a job, then,manessa.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know what I mean.
It's so.
It's a passion, it's a purpose,it's motivating, right.
It's different.
I'm fortunate my career did alot of that for me.
It sounds like yours did too.
I was well fitted for what I dofor a living, but I did too
much of it, or I started to.
You know you're in a bigcompany and there's.
You know I play well withothers, so I know the whole
(30:07):
political landscaping can do it,but that's a lot of energy.
Who wants to?
You know I'm like, yeah, Inever wanna do that anymore.
I don't wanna do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I'll help you-.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
This is why I love you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
This is absolutely why I wanna join the podcast,
cause, like I feel you so hard.
I love that you can like cause,like really that's the freedom,
right.
And when you talk aboutretirement like this, I'm like,
dude, I can't wait to retire.
So now my wife and I are alwayslike.
I'm like the other day she saidwe reached, so we hit like a
number in our retirement assets.
And she's like, right now, ifwe retired today, we get $1,000
(30:38):
every month for the rest of ourlives.
And I'm like woo-hoo.
I was like, can we retire?
No, I'm not yet, but like, butstill, we made a huge milestone,
so okay.
So I'm curious, you know, as westart to sort of wind down, I'm
actually curious to know alittle bit more about.
So you mentioned earlier thatyou work with people one-on-one,
you have workshops, you havethings like that.
So I sort of like, what are themodalities in which you work
with people?
(30:58):
And like, how does that work?
You know, cause, like there'sso many different ways.
It seems like you're gonnaapply this.
I'd be curious to know what thedifferent ones are and how that
goes.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, before I jump in there, this is a little
backdrop and it's so funnysomething you just said that got
me to think about this.
It's the financial piece, right, and it's like which comes
first.
It feels very chicken egg,right.
So recently we've beenapproached by a couple of
financial services planningfirms because they're even
noticing that there are peoplein their population of clients
(31:31):
that have the money but arereluctant to retire.
And they're saying, if we'rereally they're very caring and
holistic financial planningorganizations and they're saying
, if we really are doing our job, we wanna help people more
holistically.
And there's a whole holisticretirement planning movement
(31:55):
that's coming out of thatfinancial services industry and
not a lot of them are there, butyou see that.
So we've got two things it'sstarting, it's delicious
Starting and what's neat aboutit is they're loving our stuff
and they're saying, hey, thereare ways we can partner together
, which is really kind of cool,right.
So we offer, I'd say, twoavenues to get our stuff.
(32:19):
One is for individuals.
We offer what we call jumpstarter and jump starter plus.
We have an online learningplatform and it's built.
There are six modules thatbring you through our roadmap.
You get a lifetime access toall our stuff because we're big
on this should never be one anddone.
(32:41):
You should try things as you goso you get all our modules.
There are articles from likeHarvard Business Review, forbes,
ted Talks, youtube videos fromall types of people that are in
this space that we've includedin our roadmap.
(33:05):
We have online learning videosthat we've created.
We have a very detailed butengaging learning journal that's
a guide that takes you throughthose six modules if you will,
and so you can do that all byyourself online on your own, and
we call that jump starter.
(33:25):
Now there are some people thatreally love to do this and be
held accountable and they lovethe coaching element.
So we built Jumpstarter Plusand we put in three coaching
sessions so you meet and thenthere's like an introductory
session at the beginning andthen at strategic points along
(33:46):
the way, there's three sessionswhere you meet with a coach, and
that coach is an accountabilitycoach, if you will, and
oftentimes people will then sayI want to keep this up and
they'll buy another package thatwould add on that makes sense,
it does, it really does.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It's great, but I feel like if you really want to
like turn it into a lifetimehabit, you want to spend that
time like just to make sure it'sreally there.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yes, and we want to make sure that we people access
this in a way that they canconsume it for themselves.
And we know that it's veryindividual, so we didn't want to
handcuff people to getting thecoaching, and so we did it in
two ways.
One is no coaching, one is withcoaching.
I love that You're that firstand then add on coaching, and
(34:30):
all our coaches are people likethat livid, they walk the talk.
So you might be too young forthis, but I always say so.
I'm really dating myself.
There was this guy and his namewas Syce Burling and he did the
Hair Club for Men.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh, my God, oh, the Hair Club for Men.
I'm not as young as I look.
That's hysterical.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
The headline was I'm not only the president, I am
also one of our key clients.
I remember that.
Oh my God, I remember his voice.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
It's all coming back to me now.
I love this and the link isgoing to be in the show notes.
Everyone who wants to hear hisdelightful voice again?
Oh my gosh, it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
So my business partner Nanay and I I always say
that to her I'm like we are theguinea pigs, right, we do this.
So we've got all of that Pluswe've run this through six times
before we finalized it and weiterated it with real people.
And going through all of thisThen we've started to get some
interest from employers Reallyinteresting people who were like
(35:29):
we want to help people fromlike a diversity and inclusion,
like at all stages and agesalong their career journey in
our company.
And so we know people arehanging in there because of this
uncertainty, but we want themto be able to have the freedom
and flexibility to move on.
And so how do we do that?
(35:49):
And so we have created thisaccelerator workshop, which is
six weeks.
We meet once a week and bringthem through everything that's
in Jumpstarter.
Just we do it live.
They have access to it all onthe learning platform.
Like Jumpstarter they also can.
But the added bonus from thatis they do it in a community and
(36:13):
we've done it as an openenrollment.
It's just hard to kind of geteverybody on the same day.
It's much easier to havesomeone buy a workshop and they,
you know, have they fill it,but it is so powerful when
you're with other people at thesame right that are absolutely.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Especially if they're all in the same area.
You ask the.
You learn so much just from thequestions people ask, like it's
10 folds 12, I'd so much betterLike.
I would always recommend doingthat.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And if they're in the same company, it's even we've
found even stronger.
And man talk about the brandloyalty and ambassadorship.
When these people leave, yeah,and they're even saying, oh my
gosh, all my friends are sayingI've never heard of a company
that does this for their folks.
And again, everyone gets totalaccess, lifetime access to all
(37:02):
our stuff, so that one is likeour community and we call it
accelerator.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I love it.
Love it, and you know somethingyou said earlier where you were
talking about diversity andinclusion and like making sure
that people at all ages aretaken care of.
You know, I 'm not on demandthroughout the year, but as I
was preparing for this podcastand I was really reflecting upon
our previous conversation, Ieven wrote this down because I
didn't want to say it wrong,because I thought I thought
about something that I realizedI've been talking, you know,
I've been talking to so manypeople lately who are, um, you
(37:30):
know, and we've been seeing somany people in the world right
now, so many differentbackgrounds, that I think that
they're all speaking about thisstory that we've told this way,
that it's been, is not okay,right, and so I think what we're
seeing happening in the worldright now is like a collective
rejection of the status quo that, like, is related to gender,
(37:52):
race, sexuality, age, mentalhealth, disability, like the
people in those groups aresaying you know what?
We are absolutely done with thestory that was written long
before we were even born aboutwho we are, what we can do, how
we should retire.
People are tired of livingunder the societal belief
systems that are assigned to usby default, right, and so I feel
(38:12):
like every person I talk to issomeone who, like yourself, for
a group of people, has said nomore, like we're done.
We are moving into a differentspace, which I feel like so much
, like the millennials right now, or like the generations that
are coming, that, like mygeneration, like so Gen X, like
so, I'm like a few years, like77.
(38:34):
So I'm like right at the end ofGen X, a couple of years, and
but, like my generation, isgoing to reap many of the
rewards from what it is that youguys are doing at the end of
the boomer generation for whatyou're creating right now,
because by the time my groupstarts to retire, right, or you
will have all these systems inplace so you will be able to be
(38:55):
like, listen, we put this inplace that you didn't have to
suffer like we did.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
We are like trailblazers, right.
I love that so much.
I did so I'll be like dude.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I'm retired.
I'm retired from retiring, I'mdoing something else.
Now, you know and that'sactually the joy when I think
about myself in terms of my life, right, and I don't know what
your separations would be, butin my mind, about every seven to
10 years, I'm a differentperson and have a whole
different set of things, right?
So if you retire at 60, there'slike three different people you
(39:32):
can be right.
So it's like you know, no, Imean like, and if you decide in
the story in your mind you'relike, hey, it's ended.
Then there's three whole peoplethat you're not going to be
able to be because you alreadydecided that.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
So that's what really .
That's brilliant that youcaught that, because that really
jazzes me.
So my purpose is I love andhave always loved to.
This is what it turned intofrom the yeast in the bread of
life, bs, right, I just love tohelp people live to their
potential.
I love that.
(40:04):
That's just.
It hooks me right, and so I'vedone it throughout my whole
career.
Silly things like when I firsthad the first training job I
ever had was helping people witha new customer service computer
program and when they couldn'tmake sense of it, I make sense
of it and help them with that.
(40:24):
To my job as a corporateexecutive, helping people as
they become executives.
Right To my, the way I'veparented my kids and launched
them off to college, and myrecent grad who just graduated
college right In my marriage.
(40:45):
Like, when I think about it andI look back the role I play
with my siblings, I'm always theone who's that.
You know the helping themdiscover their purpose and and
do it in a way that's nottraditional, like why can't you?
You know, my brother is, is 67and everyone.
(41:06):
He's like the oldest person,he's number one sales guy, he's
always winning awards, blah,blah, blah.
And his boss is like pleasedon't retire, please don't
retire, please don't retire.
And my brother's like I got themoney I can retire, I should
retire it.
And I'm like stop, like stop.
What do you love?
And he goes this is what I go.
What do you love about your job?
Cut a deal with him.
Tell him that's what you wantto do.
(41:27):
Work a couple of days less,don't he goes.
I hate, I go.
What do you hate?
I hate all the new systems.
I'm like I bet he'd hiresomeone because you bring in the
box.
He has to like, do their ownsystem and turn up, hasn't he
said that?
He goes, tony, and so it's likethat, right, it's just so cool
to connect to your purpose, tosee it out there.
(41:49):
And for me, I don't know when I,when I'm going to stop this.
I just like you, every coupleof years I'll figure it out how
much, how little, and it's stilljazzing me.
What's what's bringing me?
You know like, and do I stillhave time for the things for?
You know, if I just want toplay, this time, you know?
And giving back, like you and Iserve on a board, that's big
(42:11):
for me.
I couldn't always do that whenI worked full time.
So it's one of those things inmy life portfolio.
When I look at those fivesectors, there's like a
spirituality section right,there's a physical kind of
section.
There's relationships, familyand friends right, there's work.
What I feel is, and why I callwork, it's contribution.
(42:33):
It might not be for money, butit's like how do I contribute to
society?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Oh, my God, love that , love that so much.
It has been such a glorioustime talking to you today.
I wanted to ask really quick ifpeople were willing to work
with you.
Where can they find you?
Sure, our work.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
My website is thefutureofyoucom and if anyone
wants to speak to me personally,it's lisa at thefutureofyoucom.
That's my email.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Fabulous, and we'll have all of those in the show
notes.
Lisa, thank you so much forjoining me today.
This was absolutely fabulous.
I cannot wait to get this upthere.
Thank you again.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Oh, thank you so much , Vanessa.
Take care now.
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