Beyond Compensation: The Soul of Surrogacy Work

#surrogacy 
#ivf 
#surrogate

US Surrogacy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/us_surrogacy?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

What happens when personal struggle transforms into professional purpose? Dawn Baker, founder and CEO of US Surrogacy LLC, takes us behind the scenes of her remarkable journey from experiencing secondary infertility in her twenties to building an ethical surrogacy agency that has helped create nearly 400 families from 21 different countries.

Dawn's perspective is uniquely powerful - she understands the heartache of fertility challenges firsthand while bringing 11+ years of agency leadership to the conversation. She shares candidly about the delicate art of matching surrogates with intended parents, revealing a thoughtful approach that prioritizes compatibility over convenience. Rather than simply matching based on waiting time, Dawn's team carefully considers communication styles, expectations, and even who should see whose profile first to protect everyone's emotional wellbeing.

The conversation tackles the false dichotomy between compensated and altruistic surrogacy, with Dawn eloquently explaining how both motivations coexist in successful journeys. "You deserve the moon. You don't ever get paid what you're worth," she tells surrogates, while acknowledging financial realities for most intended parents. Her approach to benefits packages demonstrates remarkable transparency, encouraging surrogates to review and request changes before finalizing matches.

Most fascinating is Dawn's insight into international surrogacy dynamics and how current U.S. regulatory challenges are reshaping global family-building options. She discusses the careful development of ethical programs in other countries while emphasizing the importance of maintaining stringent standards wherever surrogacy takes place.

Whether you're considering surrogacy, are a current surrogate, or simply curious about how families are built across borders, this episode offers a masterclass in ethical third-party reproduction. Connect with Dawn's wealth of knowledge at US-Surrogacy.com to learn more about creating families with both heart and integrity.

Have questions or stories to share? Reach out to us on Instagram @stop.sit.surrogate or email [e-mail].

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome.
We are a mother-daughterpodcast about all things
surrogacy.
Together, we have brought eightbeautiful babies into this
world and we would like to share, through education and
knowledge about surrogacy withthose who want to educate
themselves on the topic.
This is Stop Sit Surrogate.
Hey everyone, welcome back toStop Sit Surrogate.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Stop Sit Surrogate with
Kennedy and Ellen.
We are here today with a lovelyguest.
We're going to let herintroduce herself, go ahead and
take it away Great.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
My name is Dawn Baker .
I am the founder and CEO of USSurrogacy LLC and we are in our
11th year of agency ownershipand pushing 400 babies from 21
countries, including oh my God,yeah, so I I still pinch myself
and kind of wonder how how I gotgot here.

(00:58):
But yeah, we're midsize I thinkI would say midsize agency and
I'm working with surrogatesthroughout the U?
S and anywhere that's safe uh,which is getting harder to find
um for for surrogates here inthe U S.
Did you say?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
21 countries.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
That's hard to navigate.
All of that, I'm impressed.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
So I mean I've got some countries I work in more
than other locations, but overthe years, yeah, we've had
parents in the Congo, you know,just some unusual places, fiji
Islands and things.
So I didn't think we had thatmany.
And then at one point someoneon my team said you know, I
wonder how many.

(01:40):
So we counted the countries andwe're really really surprised.
So, yeah, one-offs, but themajority of the places I work,
you know, are pretty muchthroughout Europe and Middle
East and Asia, things like thatkind of where you'll find a lot
of secrecy happening already inthis country.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay, so so the big question, or the main one like
how did you get into owning anagency?

Speaker 3 (02:02):
It was really by happenstance and um, you know,
um, I had a mutual, I had afriend who knew, knew someone
who'd been a surrogate beforeand was in the process of
starting their own agency.
They'd been a surrogate morethan once and, um, I actually
had been flipping houses with my, with my sister-in-law, so I

(02:22):
had a bit of investmentavailable and she was looking to
grow.
Right, she started already, butshe was looking to grow.
So I kind of stepped into thatas an investor and hadn't really
spent a lot of time thinkingabout surrogacy and what that
really was.
It was like almost 14 years ago.
Now that I can't be true.
I guess maybe, yeah, 13 yearsago.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
And so I came in just from the financial side and
started to really see what thisprocess can do for families and
how that can change thesurrogate's life, parents life,
of course.
And then it stirred up a lot ofold memories from my mid-20s
when I actually was a fertilitypatient myself and my husband

(03:09):
and I had a child right onschedule.
When you're like 23, I think,we're like let's have a baby,
you know, and it was no problem.
And then right after that wetried to conceive again and it
was almost five years ofinfertility and medication.
Undiagnosed secondaryinfertility was my diagnosis.

(03:32):
And really stepping into theworld of third party started to
sort of bring back thosememories.
It'd been a long time, it'dbeen, you know, a few decades.
So I really started to feelpassionate about the work that
we were doing and I wanted to bemore involved.
And after about a year mybusiness partner and I decided

(03:54):
we weren't really a good fit foreach other and we ended up
parting ways.
So then I started just doingconcierge for a while.
I'm helping families that werecoming to the U?
S that didn't have an agency.
That was sort of a full support.
It was like, okay, well, oncethe baby's born.
We're sort of done.
And I realized there was thismissing part for for families

(04:15):
and for surrogates too, reallythat after the delivery, where
does that leave everybody?
So I started doing conciergelevel post-delivery care for
parents at that time and theneventually one of those parents
that I was helping post-deliverysaid do you think you can find
a surrogate for my friend?
And I did, and then it's juststarted from there.

(04:38):
So at that point then I startedmy agency.
I'm a Nevada-based agency but Iwork with surrogates all over
the US, depending on their state, of course.
But yeah, so it kind of litthat fire.
And now, all these years later,what I see is the surrogates
that go through this journeyhave that kind of same

(05:01):
experience.
They want to stay connected.
They want to stay involved.
A lot of our surrogates arelike how do I work for your
agency?
Like how do I I'm sure you getthis too how do I get my foot in
the door Right?
And I think once you're asurrogate that's when that's
what I'm seeing happening is itchanges something fundamentally
within these women that connectsthem to this process, maybe for

(05:26):
the rest of their life.
And that's kind of what thislittle bit of window I had with
this other agency startup sortof did for me.
It kind of got seeped into myblood and brought up memories
and feelings of what that waslike to want to have another
child and have people say youknow, you have one already,
what's the big deal?
Why are you going through allof this?

(05:47):
You should be grateful for thechild you have and then getting
some fertility care, but notmuch.
I was, my husband was activeduty military and just no
support there.
And then getting out of themilitary, no support from my
provider, and that's really adifficult place to be in, to
have that big desire in yourheart and be treated like you're

(06:11):
less than um, and that it'sreally not a big deal and you
should kind of get over it.
Uh, and so for me that's my, mywalk and my experience and I
never compare myself to actualintended parents who have to
have a surrogate.
But what it did for me was tomake me appreciate these women
willing to do that and I knowfundamentally that it's not the

(06:34):
same and I didn't need asurrogate but I could have, and
that was a time where surrogacywas relatively new, um, it was
sort of science fiction and itwas way out of range, as it is
now, for many, many people.
So I don't know that that wouldhave ever been an option that I
would be allowed to to do or orto be able to achieve that
having the rest of my childrenthat I eventually had, um, but I

(06:57):
think surrogates that arewilling to do this are
incredible people and I'm so, sograteful that they're willing,
because I could have needed thatand it would have been out of
reach for me in many, many ways,and because of women, like both
of you actually and they'rewilling to do that.
Um, it opens up opportunitiesfor family building that I

(07:18):
wouldn't have had, and so I lovebeing a part of that.
So, yeah, I mean 11 and a halfyears in of my own agency
ownership and a year and a halfbeing part owner of a different
agency before that, and I am inshock regularly at the job that
I have and you must both be aswell Like, how is this our work,

(07:40):
right?

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, it's kind of our work, but we don't get paid
for it.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
The work of heart.
Right, it's hard work.
Maybe it's not your job, but itis hard work and that's the
level of education that you tryto do for families.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's really cool that you have that perspective.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
It really is, yeah, cause you also have this
perspective, a partialperspective of intended parents,
where you understand thatdesire, Whereas a lot of
surrogates like we can empathizewith it.
Right, but we, we, we don't.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
We never firsthand experienced most, most of the
time we actually do have asurrogate who's had her own
infertility journey in some way,especially male factor right
fertility is a much bigger issuenow and then it's ever been
before as far as what we knowright right um, we have actually

(08:40):
had surrogates who have beenIVF patients themselves and then
have their families andcomplete their families through
their own IVF and then realize Iyou know.
I've overcome this, and now Ican help another family that's
going through what they did.
So, yeah, male factor,infertility and some other, some
other things that don'tdisqualify someone from becoming

(09:01):
a surrogate, because maybe it'sa um, it's a, it's a an ovary
issue or whatever that but,still they have a healthy yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Wow, that is so cool.
I don't know why I thought thatif, like if someone, if, like I
had, if I needed to do IVF forme, then I wouldn't.
I just thought I wouldn'tqualify like to be a surrogate,
but it really is no differentbecause I'd be doing IVF.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
You were your own surrogate.
Yeah, yeah, created embryosoutside the womb and then
carried.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
My tubes were tied and I went on to do surrogacy.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, so you know the whole ovary portion of that,
like we're going to silencethose anyway, like, so it
doesn't really matter if yourkids are tied or if you have egg
quality issues or whatever.
Yeah, wow, yeah Do you have aquestion.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I do.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Go, go, oh, okay, okay, I want to.
I want to back it just for aminute, so you had so, cause I'm
still fascinated by the 21countries.
I think that's wild and awesome.
So you said that you do a lotin Europe, which doesn't shock
me at all, but are you alsoworking with surrogates in these
other countries, or is it justokay?

Speaker 3 (10:18):
No, I haven't.
I haven't worked with anysurrogates to date.
Anyway, I said there gets outof the country.
I haven't done cross-borderwhere you're moving women back
and forth across borders.
I feel a certain kind of wayabout that.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
I don't know what the future?

Speaker 3 (10:32):
yeah, we really watch how things are unfolded in the
us um, but I have not um all ofour surrogates so far in the
united states and it's you knowthe system that you're used to
seeing parents come to a clinichere.
They create ambrose, they gohome.
Surrogate has transferred, theycome Sometimes.
We love it when they come forthe anatomy scan around 20 weeks

(10:52):
of that.
But the reality is that not allinternational and actually
domestic parents too, aren'talways able to travel.
They're saving money and daysoff so that they have those
resources available to them whenit's time for delivery.
So then we expect them to cometwo weeks before the due date.
They're typically here threeweeks after getting documents in
order and things like that.

(11:13):
If they're domestic, thetimeline's a little bit shorter
than if they get their directflight and things like that.
But yeah, you know, for for theinternational families, their
surrogates are all here.
I have been looking at Mexicoas an option, not moving
surrogates across the border butsurrogates in Mexico doing a

(11:33):
full program with a vettedclinic in Mexico.
And so we are looking at thatand more agencies are looking
into options outside of the US.
Again, I really hope no one'smoving surrogates across borders
Right, that's tricky, but fullprograms in those countries that
are set up in a way that we'vekind of copied every ethical

(11:55):
option that we have available.
It's not always going totranslate culturally Right Right
To those other countries and ittakes a long time to find
providers and have US-basedclinics, those clinics there and
all of that kind of stuff.
But I'm sure you're watching ithappen.
It's all over, you know socialmedia and the blogs and the

(12:15):
Facebook groups and all thesethings Because of some of the
issues we're having here.
You know it really was just afinancial matter why parents
were going outside of the US todo their journeys because of
rising costs for the wholeentire program here in the US.
But it was still and still isreally.
But it was clear that it wasstill a better option because

(12:37):
you had some safeguards right asfar as the process for
returning home with yourchildren and things like that.
And as right now we're in themiddle of sort of watching that
deteriorate, we don't know whatthe future holds.
It's changing right now, everyday, those sort of drive like
okay, well, it's financiallymore expensive, but you have

(12:57):
this benefit of clear laws inplace that protect the surrogate
and the parent.
And then there's a clear pathfor a birth certificate and a
passport to get your child home.
And as we're watching thoseissues that are going on in real
time now, we're losing some ofthat shininess of the US-based
programs.
So these other programs arestarting to develop at a quicker

(13:20):
rate, not to say that they'regood or bad, but those things
are happening.
And so, really for surrogates,please don't leave the country
and go to some other country todo it Right, and and that
shouldn't be happening, butfamilies are looking at all
their options now.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, wow, and that's very yeah.
I don't want to say it's sad tohear but in a way it's sad
because it's I mean it's greatright that there are other
options to say it's sad to hearbut in a way it's sad because
it's I mean it's great rightthat there are other options and
that it's becoming morefeasible and and it's safe in
some other parts of thecountries, but it's just sad to
hear that the us isn't the ohyeah, like surrogacy friendly

(14:01):
like we it's the best Right,especially California.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
We used to be the gold standard, but it was you
know.
Then we started looking at umliens, so insurance sort of kill
California.
And then on top of that therising cost of surrogates in
California.
Um, and then surrogatesthroughout the U?
S have a good argument Like,well, why is the surrogates
throughout the US have a goodargument like, why is a
surrogate in California sort ofworth a higher compensation than

(14:28):
I am in like Oregon orWisconsin or somewhere?
and that's a valid point, butthere are some significant
differences, and a lot of thatis just in what the IPs are
wanting and looking for and alsoin the statutes that are in
place in California that aren'tin place in other other states
States.
So, um, it's a, it's aninteresting time in our field

(14:48):
right now as we watch all ofthese changes happening and what
will stick and what won't.
Um, but you know when, whenyou're working international
family building, you have tosort of keep your finger on the
pulse of that all the time.
So this is nothing new.
We've been worrying about andwatching it for several years,

(15:08):
actually since our last roundwith the same administration,
right, and so it's nothingthat's sort of shocking.
It's just so.
It's just coming sort of tofruition now.
And so the address is not atheory anymore.
It's actually happening, soyeah.
So it's interesting to thinkabout international families and
what that means for them.

(15:28):
Right Right Security is hangingin the balance right now.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
And they're there, they need answers.
They have great questions andwe don't actually have any
concrete answers right nowbecause it's just so rapidly
yeah oh my gosh.
But you know, it's what theheart wants, yeah, and I fully
believe that families will pressforward and find a way to
create to, you know, have theirchildren, create their children.

(15:55):
Right, because of that desireof the heart is so strong.
And what I say to parents andsurrogates when they ask me,
like, how do we know if theparent's going to be able to
come and take their baby?
And things like that is theseare the questions that were
often asked.
You know, 40, 45 years ago,right, there was a first.
There was a family that wentfirst.
There was a gay family thatwent first.

(16:17):
There was an internationalfamily that went first in the
United States.
Right, and those trustedprofessionals that we work with
are the attorneys that we allrely on, the agencies who have,
you know, 40, 45 years ofexperience.
We all rely on each other tonavigate that pathway through
that obstacle.
We did it in 2020, for.

(16:38):
COVID when the travel banhappened in COVID, we were
getting families home without a,even without a birth
certificate, right With acertificate of birth from the
hospital and their court orderand things like that.
We were being able to, you know, move, move children back home
with their families, and it tooksome time and all of us working
as a team in the community tofigure out how to do that.

(17:00):
And I don't think that thiswill be any different in my body
.
The human heart wants what itwants, and those of us who feel
impassioned about bodilyautonomy which is a big issue
now, about citizenship rightsand all of that we'll navigate
it the best we can and find asafe path forward, like they
have for 45 years.
So you know, we'll see whatshakes out.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
But in 21 countries all with their different reasons
why the parents and so, withall of that, those different
things that we're having tonavigate and agencies are having
to kind of pivot, and I meanmaybe that goes without saying,
but that increases the cost,correct?
Because there's so much morehaving to happen and maybe more

(17:43):
people involved.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
I think we're going to have to see that what that's
going to look like.
I know in COVID 2020 timeperiod, attorneys were sort of
offering their extra services oh, you need this extra document,
you need FedEx and these thingsand as an agency, we partnered
up with the attorneys that wehad, which is why having

(18:06):
experienced attorneys,especially with international
family building, is so, soimportant, because they, they
all rallied, like everybody kindof really rallied and looked
outward to our governmentalresources and I mean, no stone
was unturned like anybody had afriend in this department and
you know and and everybodyworked to do that, you know,

(18:29):
during that time.
So there wasn't a lot of addedcosts.
Costs were added when we werestarted looking at we need a
power of attorney because theparents can't be at the hospital
, they can't get a flight, youknow, things like that.
So there were some costs, butfor the most part the agencies
that are colleagues of mine thatI know and trust, other agency
owner friends that I have andthe attorneys that we all work

(18:50):
with sort of banded together andprovided those services without
racking up a bunch ofadditional costs.
I don't know what this new isgoing to look like.
We may see, you know, a drasticincrease now in costs on the
administrative side, more thingsthat have to happen in order to
get families moving, movingaround and home where they
belong.
But I hope that we all rally,at least in the beginning, while

(19:13):
we're sorting things out and wedon't pass huge burden,
financial burdens on to familiesthat are already um stretched
to the oh for sure wow, yeah, sowe're all we're all looking at
that, everyone's talking aboutit.
That's why we we love, um, youknow all the seeds, brown bags
and webinars, and all theattorneys are jumping in and

(19:35):
doing webinars and trying tohelp all navigate it.
So it feels very communal, likewe're all sort of in this hot
mess together.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, Right, which is good.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
It's good Cause.
That means, together we canhopefully all change or not
change, but well no, hopefullychange things that are happening
.
Let's hope for that.
I'm curious how, 21 country,I'm still stuck on it.
I'm sorry, I'm so fascinated.
I think that's amazing.
It's like awesome how thesedifferent countries find out

(20:08):
about you.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Right.
Um, you know, on the IP side,we I think you guys probably
know you know surrogates are arethe, the, the resource here,
the women that we need and everysingle agency.
I'd be surprised if an agencyever said like we're just
drowning in incredible qualifiedsurrogate right, and so you

(20:31):
know the women that are willingto help a family in this way,
those, those are the componentof a journey that really is the
hardest to find.
We're very strict.
At my agency.
I work with fantastic clinicsthat also have this incredibly
strict guidelines, so it'sreally that focus on finding

(20:52):
quality surrogate candidates andit's a lot of word of mouth,
thankfully, and I think thatthat's helpful.
I travel to internationalconferences, so whether it's men
having babies or wish for ababy or some little one-offs

(21:13):
that we have, that has sort ofmade this group of 21,.
Those are word of mouth.
They have a friend who's gonethrough my agency and has this

(21:34):
beautiful baby and they're like,yeah, we want that and so
that's somehow those parentscome to us.
So I don't market in 21 placesand I don't run ads actually for
intended parents and travel,and you know something about you
and your agency right there.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
It really does.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, there's a huge benefit to getting in front of
intended parents in person andso, again, I haven't been to 21
countries, but I do travel whenI can.
I have my daughter that worksfor me, is my caboose, so empty
nest, which gives me the abilityto do some travel and get in

(22:14):
front of families.
And I think, like with anyone,when you meet them in person,
there's a level of conversationand connection that you can make
.
That's not always possible overzoom and so for me, um, I I'll
go to these conferences, I'llmeet families there and start
helping families in thosecommunities and then they share
their stories and with referrals, that's great.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
So do you have a wait ?

Speaker 3 (22:39):
list Well, I like to call it my match list.
So my program director came into say she's like, they're not
really waiting, they're matching, we're just needing to find the
right person, and so we'reactually at about three months,
depending on the list.
So we have right, which is whyshe's like, I'm not calling it a
waiting list, it's a matchinglist and so we match between

(23:02):
eight and 10 surrogates everymonth and so the match is pretty
quick.
Yeah, we're, we did.
I think last year we did 88matches and then this year we're
a little bit above that, but sowe're, I think we're medium
size.
I mean, I know people who aremaking that many like a month or
whatever that I make in a year,right, that many like a month

(23:23):
or whatever that I make in ayear, right.
So, um, so we, we do, we dookay, but, um, our wait time is
about three months.
And and if you're an intendedparent and you come and you say
you know, um, we follow ASRMguidelines, I'm actually pretty
strict about that, even thoughwe're not required to.
Asrm doesn't really work withagencies.
They don't give us any kind ofplatform or care, you know, but

(23:44):
we follow what their guidelinesare that they present to clinics
and mhps and stuff mentalhealth professionals.
So if you follow asrmguidelines as an agency and you
follow seeds, so the ethicalorganization, I'm sure you know
I'm on the membership, I'm amembership co-chair for that,
and so I take seeds, umguidelines very seriously,
standards and guidelines.
And then you work with greatclinics that have their own list

(24:06):
of guidelines.
So kind of once you start, youknow, following all of those
guidelines, um, you know, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna get
some traction because you're,you're careful in the work that
you do.
I don't know if that answersyour question.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
And you're ethical and you're yeah, you're
following the rules per se.
If you just want to put airquotes out there, yeah, but and
and that to an intended parentis huge, huge.
We've all known the age, youknow the money's in there and
boom, they're gone and that's,it's scary, and that's their
whole life.
They're waiting for a child andthis is their whole life.
So, yeah, to trust somebody ishuge in this business, Huge.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Did that answer your question?
Sorry, no, it did.
It answered it beautifully.
And then, um, okay, so that'snot long at all Three months to
potentially find a match, or oh,you don't find a match Like
that's yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, so you, so you know, so, yeah.
So I guess if parents come inand say, um, I know that you
follow these guidelines, I'mgonna trust you to find an
appropriate match for me.
Maybe here's a few things thatare important.
Um, what kind of communicationI'm hoping for with my surrogate
?
Um, you know those few simplethings that are important to

(25:21):
them as long as they're meeting.
You know we have four criteriatheir physical health, their
emotional mental health, theirsocial health and their
financial health.
And then we do what mostagencies I think are doing, or
at least should be doing, is,you know, gathering a full set
of medical records directly fromthe providers, not from the GC
herself criminal and financialbackground check.
You know, if we're doing all ofthose things, we have a great

(25:44):
candidate and she's not even inour program and she doesn't meet
everything.
So by the time a parent's goingto be ready to match, they're
going to have quality candidatesavailable.
The timeline difference isgoing to be if they start adding
on a lot of lifestylepreferences, location, you know,
all of these things that aren'trelevant to a safe and

(26:06):
successful journey but maybeimportant to them personally.
So we do take those thingsserious, but then we're very
transparent and say you know,our matching times are about
three months and if you onlywant these very, very specific
things, like a surrogate in twostates, like only this state and
that state, right, right.
So then we can, we know enoughand have been doing this long

(26:27):
enough that we can adjust thatand then be really transparent
with them and what they canexpect.
If they come in and they'recool and they just say we want
these basic fundamentals and wetrust your judgment, we'll find
them a surrogate that does matchsome of their hobbies and
interests and things, cause it'salways great to start with a
little seed of something thatthey have in common.
So we'll do that, um, andsometimes they match really fast

(26:50):
, within even a few weeks.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Who, who?
Who gets to see whose profilefirst?
Or do you have a coordinatorwho's matching up a surrogate
and an intended parent orparents and just saying, okay,
we're going to try these twotogether.
Or does a surrogate get to lookso?

Speaker 3 (27:07):
myself and Kim, my program director, we do kind of
that preliminary matching, thesharing of profiles.
In the beginning it really iscustomized for every single case
.
If we have a surrogate who weknow is really particular and
good for her, we know we don'thave a problem with that.
But maybe she saw a profilebefore and didn't resonate and

(27:29):
she didn't like them and then wesent her someone else.
So we go okay, she's reallyspecific in what she wants, but
she's not really able toarticulate exactly what it is
she needs and is looking for.
So we know that the potentialis there for us to send her a
profile and for her not to beinterested.
Then we're going to send it toher first and if she's

(27:50):
interested, then we'll send itto the parent.
And we do it the other way aswell.
If we have a parent who everytime we send them a surrogate's
profile and we're jazzed, it allmatches up and it's going to be
amazing and they're like no, um, which doesn't actually neither
of those things happen a lot,but they can happen.
And then we're going to makesure that, um, that they're

(28:11):
going to see that profile first.
Otherwise we're sending it tothe surrogate first, having this
parent in mind, knowing thatthey don't quite, they're not
really able to share with usexactly what they're looking for
, and that's heartbreaking foreverybody.
So we're really careful.
Um, and it's literally case bycase.
Um, if a surrogate, we askedthem.
We're really good at our matchpoints, so we asked them.

(28:33):
You know, are you okay If we'regoing to share your profile
with the parent first, if weknow that that parent's looking
for a feeling of somethingparticular?
That way, and we explain itthat way, we're not wasting your
time.
You're not going to open anemail that the subject says oh,
ip profile or whatever, and thenyou're excited and you're
immediately invested and thenyou look at their profile and

(28:55):
you say yes, and then we sendyour information to them, who
they have, a history of beingparticular, right, and so we
find transparency is just thebest and if we're going to do
something, I see I'm in a lot ofthose groups online.
I'm invited to be there.
I don't promote my agency.
I simple simply try to helpanswer questions.

(29:16):
But I see some of thoseconcerns and I think about them
all the time.
Sarah gets telling each otheryou should see the profile first
and you should demand to dothese things and I'm like, how
about trust your agency thatthey're trying to watch out for
your heart and mind too?
And if you trust us enough thatyou're signing up with us to be
your agency, then know that wehave your best interest in in

(29:38):
mind and heart, and sotransparency is everything.
And if a surrogate says in mindand heart, and so transparency
is everything.
And if a surrogate says, youknow, I I read online that that
I get to see the profiles firstand this is really important to
me, to say, okay, talk to meabout why that's important to
you and I'll share with you kindof our process and we'll do
what's important to you.
But I want you to know whyyou're telling.
Why are you?

(29:59):
Why is it important to you?
You should know why, not justthat you've read it on the
internet, right?
And so then they're happy toshare why they feel that that's
most important to them.
Then I can explain our processto them and maybe I'll say
something like I have theseintended parents and they really
are specific in what they'relooking for.
Do you want me to send, do youwant to see their profile first,

(30:20):
or would you like me to sendyour profile to them first, just
to make sure?
And it saves a lot of heartacheand we don't have broken
matches and you know it has tobe.
This has to be customizable.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Okay.
So, donna, I'm going to be realhonest with you.
We are the people that aresaying girls, look at it first
and I'll.
I'll say this.
The reason we say that is ourone.
We've talked to other surrogateswho have had I hate to call
them horror stories, but likenot the greatest of experience
with certain agencies rightright and I've had several cases

(30:56):
, um, where I've told an agencythis is what I'm looking for and
and they're like, oh, okay, andsend me somebody completely
different.
And they're like they love you.
And I'm like, cool, that's notwhat I said I was looking for.
So you know, and it is it'sfrom my point of view it's
coming from.
But I love what you said.
And like you talk, sitting downand talking to you or someone

(31:19):
like you with an agency.
I'm open to hearing you andbeing like, hey, this is how we
do it.
And I'm actually willing to belike yeah, okay, you seem
trustworthy, like I'm going todo this with you.
But in my personal experiencein the past, it's been we're
going to throw the completeopposite at you because's who's

(31:40):
been on our waiting list thelongest?

Speaker 3 (31:41):
And it's like, no, that's not right, and Kim um
does does a lot of those sort ofpairing up, and I would like I
was just gone for a month, Right, so I would see her emailing
with some people, and then Iwould send her a message and say
I'm pretty sure like she onlywanted like a LGBT couple or a
heterosexual married couple, orthat it was important to her

(32:03):
that those parents don't alreadyhave children you know
different, different matchpoints like that and then I said
I feel like I remember talkingto her about that.
And then Kim, sometimes it'srare, but then Kim might say
back something to me like well,that's true, but since you've
been out of town, um, she calledme and said she actually talked
to her husband about it andchanged her match criteria Right

(32:28):
, and so I'm like okay, so no,we both kind of call each other
out on that, like I think thatthe surrogate wanted this or
that and we do our intendedparents as well.
Okay, don't send the intendedparents, the surrogate who has a
specific criteria that theydon't meet, and vice versa.
So I'm really don't like brokenmatches and I think you can
stop all of that withtransparency from the beginning.

(32:50):
So if you're, my surrogate andyou're saying I really want to
see the profile first, I'll say,okay, that totally fine to do
that.
Can you share with me whythat's really important to you
so I can make sure I get itright for you the first time,
right, and then you share yourreasons with me and then I'll
say okay and I might say to youno, I have this intended parent
that every time I talk with themyou pop in my head every time

(33:13):
and they meet what you're askingfor but they're very particular
and the last two profiles Isent to them they passed on.
So, for you and for your needs,how can I help you with that?
Because if I send you theprofile, you're going to love
these guys and they may not loveyou back because they don't
know you like I do Right.
They're just looking at a pieceof paper, right, though they're

(33:36):
thinking about their budget.
They're looking at your birthweights.
You know they're.
They're doing that.
They're not connected to you,right, and you can tell me.
Do you want to risk that?
Do you still want to see theirprofile first, or would you like
me to go ahead and just send itto them and then, if they're
interested, we can share it withyou and then you can invest
emotion?

Speaker 1 (33:56):
I would let you send it to them, cause I don't want
to fall in love and then beheartbroken.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
I don't want to fall in love and then be heartbroken,
right?
So that's the conversationsthat we have and again,
everything is very specific.
I had a surrogate that justmatched and she has had her
benefits package for a very longtime and kind of went over it
and told, told us more than once, like everything looks good.
And then I just had the bestcall with her and we went
through it again because she'sending a match and she said I

(34:26):
just she's been on those groupsand she wanted to go through
some same things with me and shehad some changes she wanted to
suggest and I would say you knowseven or eight of her 10
suggestions we changed andthey're totally fine and a
couple of them.
There's a reason why.
My benefit is that and Iexplained to her the reason why

(34:47):
very detailed and, you know,really smooth communication with
this GC.
And then she was like I canaccept that, I understand that,
it makes sense to me and I'mfine, let's leave it as it is.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I think you should teach a class on this.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
I don't think that's happening everywhere, and I'm
not.
It's not.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
it's not happening everywhere, it's unfortunate
because all of these people areadult human beings with rights
and generally reasonable people,and I think you're just having
those conversations and invitinginviting ideas and opinions and
conversation about it withrespect.
Then you're going to come tothe conclusion whatever's going

(35:29):
to work for everyone.
And it's also a goodopportunity to say this isn't a
good fit.
This isn't a good fit for thisintended parent or you, um, and
maybe not a good fit for myagency, because I stand behind
the things I have in my benefitspackage.
I stand behind our processes andthey're there for a reason from
my experience and I'm notwilling to change that and so

(35:51):
maybe we're not a good fit foreach other, but I have some
amazing colleagues and I wouldbe really happy to get you in
front of one of them who I knowis ethical and trustworthy and
might be a better fit for you.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
And.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
I've said that to surrogates.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Wow, that's the community that we try to
associate ourselves with,because you're in the industry,
so you know that not everyone islike this, and so it's always
very nice and refreshing.
And now I'm going to call outGrace and say thanks, grace,
because now I understandeverything that you've ever said
about your agency, because shegives glowing reviews about you

(36:26):
in her journey stories and everysingle time.
So it makes a lot of sense and,knowing Grace and now knowing
you, I completely understandthat connection.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
It's a big deal and it was a big deal to grace.
One of the things I love aboutthe very beginning of her story
is that she reached out to usand her BMI was quite high and
we have this thing we call likeour BMI club and we send like a
cool water bottle and like someinspirational stickers it's
inexpensive, it's no big dealstickers it's inexpensive, it's

(37:04):
no big deal.
But you know, weight is astruggle in my life and in so
many people's lives.
And I say, if you really wantto do this, you can make a goal
and achieve that for yourselfand we'll stick around in the
meantime.
Get educated, ask us anythingyou want to ask while you're on
your weight loss journey, wherea support and a network for you
to get your questions asked.
And she did that, she crushedit.
And sometimes you never hearfrom those women again and

(37:26):
sometimes, like in Grace'ssituation, she put in the hard
work and called us and said,okay, I'm there, I'm ready to go
.
And she did that, had to kindof do that in between her
journeys to like regain her,like amazing strong body.
And so every single woman thatwe talk to and parent that we
talk to we treat as individualpeople on a journey of their own

(37:49):
that has ideas and interestingthings to say and needs of their
own, and if you just payattention to that, then I think
you can be a good agency.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
I think that's yeah, it's like a selling point for me
but it's to be treated like ahuman being, yes, and respected,
and I 100% believe it comingout of from you.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I do, I do.
There's some people we'vetalked to that.
I think they're just selling itand I believe it a hundred
percent because I did this.
What?
25 years ago?
You got the person who was onthe list next.
That's who you got and I'mgoing to tell you right now, two
out of three times it washorrible and I finally said

(38:33):
listen, I need to see profiles.
And they were like what?
And so I picked and thatjourney was phenomenal because
we had things in common and Ihad nothing in common with the
other ones but didn't want tospeak up and we talk about this
a lot on this podcast because wejust wanted to be a surrogate.
So deeply it was just ingrainedin us that we didn't want to

(38:54):
cause waves.
We didn't want to.
But now I'm glad surrogates arefinding their voice and with the
help of agencies that areethical, such as yourself, they
can feel more comfortablefinding their voice.
And with the help of agenciesthat are ethical, such as
yourself, they can feel morecomfortable finding their voice.
And you like the BMI thing,that whole thing.
Like you don't just go hard, no, you send them a water bottle
and some encouraging stickersand you tell them go on your
journey, come back at us whenyou're ready.
And people do like that wasunheard of 25 years ago.

(39:17):
Nobody would have done that.
It would have been a hard noyeah.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Well, I don't think it does anyone.
It's, uh, I guess it's.
It's good.
I have a good heart and mywhole team is incredible and we
care about that.
But it's also good businessfrom a business perspective.
Every agency should care aboutthat.
It prevents match breaks.
It prevents hurt feelings.
We have a huge percentage ofwomen who return for second and

(39:40):
third journeys of my agency.
They refer their friends, theirsisters, all of that kind of
stuff.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
And that's not happening.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
If you're not listening to, that's right.
You know what they're trying totell you feedback throughout
the whole journey.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
So we give them.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
We give them plenty of opportunity to say I don't
like these parents, right?
So profile review, it's aprofile review, it's a match
meeting it's waiting for.
So we wait until the clinicgives approval before we
actually say you're officiallymatched and we and get payment
from the parent, right?
So there's a lot of steps alongthe way.
So first they're looking at aprofile, they can say no, thank

(40:15):
you, or they can have questionsanswered.
Okay, well, their letter, theirprofile, didn't share as much
as I wanted to know.
I need to know more things,right?
So there's an opportunity there.
Then they're going to meet thatfamily.
Then they're going to waituntil their records are approved
.
We used to do it the other wayget records approval and then
have them meet.
But I think, as you guys know,records approval or validation

(40:37):
from a clinic is taking four tosix weeks.
So we don't want them to allwait and then, in four to six
weeks of waiting, meet eachother and discover it's not a
good fit.
So we're having them where ifthey want to, we ask them both
and if they understand that it'sonly really pending the
clinical approval of the records, then they can go ahead and
we'll introduce them so that itkind of saves that time of

(40:59):
everybody anxiously waiting andexcited and then something
happens.
So, um, they can say no thenthen the records come back
approved.
Okay, your records wereapproved by the clinic today.
How are you feeling about thismatch?
Any more questions, any?
Any hesitation?
Like still excited, like are wegoing to do this?
You know, and so there's a lotof opportunity to have her share

(41:21):
her thoughts and feelings ormake any suggested.
You know changes and what she'shoping for from the journey,
and so at that point then, likewe ask them to trust us, we have
to trust them that they havehad plenty of opportunity,
because once that match isofficial and I hope that this is
your message to surrogates aswell Once you've gone through

(41:42):
all of that and your match isofficially made and the parents
start to spend significantfinancial resources on your
screening, travel and all ofthose things legal contracts and
everything else that you'recommitted to the process and
that you do grandiose changesRight, yeah, cause that's not.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, cool, no, it's not cool.
It's not cool, it's not okay,that's why it's good for
business?

Speaker 3 (42:02):
because if you didn't do the homework ahead of time,
right then you're going to be inlegal contracts and it's going
to fall apart.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Exactly yep, and nobody wins nobody has a good
experience no anyway, goodnessno, um, I so so okay, so kind of
going along with that right.
So then you're at legalcontracts.
So I'm curious when iscompensation talked about with

(42:32):
you?
Does the surrogate come in andthey're like hi, I am interested
in this.
Or are you guys set at certainstandards?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
for first, second, third state yeah, both of those
are correct.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
So we have a fixed benefits package for first time
surrogate.
But they are told from the verymoment they are sent the
benefits package.
Please look this over and let'shave a conversation about how
you feel about everything inthis benefits package, right?
And so those conversationsstart at the time of them even
applying with our agency.
So they have that benefitspackage and the ability to start

(43:07):
discussions about it with usfrom the time they are just
initially applying so we haven'teven gathered all their medical
records yet, and they've gotthat.
So those conversations startthen again.
My benefits package has beendragged through the mud and
worked over by everybody andtheir brother.
So I feel pretty confident in mypackage, but we ask them
multiple times throughout thewhole initial stages of the

(43:30):
journey If they have anyquestions, if they want to go
through it item by item.
Some of them do and some ofthem are like, no, I've seen a
thousand of these already.
I know what I'm talking about.
I'm in the groups like all thisstuff and they already come to
the table with changes.
We're very clear to say if youfeel strongly about anything
here, let's have a conversationbecause there might be an option
to make an adjustment prior tofinalizing the match.

(43:52):
So that sentence is saidmultiple times and surrogates do
change it.
They might bump their comp up alittle bit.
One of the things we're reallycareful about that I actually
bring up to them every time ischildcare.
Please look around in your localarea to make sure that the
childcare stipend or allowancefor childcare is enough in your

(44:14):
area for you for your hourlychildcare, so that we can
calculate it over the course ofa week, a month and you have the
right amount in your benefitspackage.
And sometimes they have onechild and they have, you know,
great resources all around themand like that's fine, that's,
that'll cover me for sure, andsometimes they say you know, I
have four kids and it's onething if you need childcare, um,

(44:37):
because you're going to go to adoctor's appointment.
It's another thing if you're onbedrest and you can't pick up
your two-year-old or cook a mealand those kinds of things.
And so they always have thatopportunity and most of them, we
have those discussions withthem and make the changes that
they ask for.
But we do have a benefit, youknow, we send a benefits package

(44:58):
with those sort of fixednumbers and then we go from
there and then make adjustmentsfrom there.
We don't send a blank one likefill in the blanks oh.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
God, that would be bad.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
I mean the parents that I work with are just normal
people.
They mortgage their home.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Yeah, that's usually how it is.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
I've had parents sell their home and move into a
little apartment.
I've had parents, you know,they cash out their retirement.
Their parents have cashed outtheir parents' retirement to
help them.
I mean, they are reallystretching here to do this and I
don't have parents who couldjust say whatever she wants.
It'd be great.
They feel that in their heartthey would love to do that, but

(45:39):
that's not the reality.
I don't have like Kardashiansor whoever.
I have people who really feeleverything that's being spent on
this journey and they're happyfor her to be compensated.
They're happy to covereverything and make sure she's
covered for everything.
But they really need some sortof a ballpark going into this so
that they can.

(45:59):
And it's better for thesurrogate if she's transparent
so the parents know can I matchwith her or not?
What is the reality?
Oh, she's incredible andbeautiful.
We love everything about her.
We'll have a surrogate who hasan extremely high hourly wage
right, really high hourly wage.
Everything about her is like anintended parents dream in every

(46:20):
way.
She's a beautiful, kind personand she deserves all her lost
wages.
But it's almost insurmountablefor intended parents to have
that be unlimited, which wedon't cap lost wages.
So you know that's a matchpoint that she's going to have
to have a family who has thatreally flexible budget to be
able to do that.
So the benefits package isimportant.

(46:41):
Surrogate can make whateverchanges that they would like to
make of all the things they sawonline and all the other things
their girlfriends told themabout what they deserve and
everything else.
I don't deny it you deserve themoon.
You don't ever get paid whatyou're worth.
You're worth millions ofdollars and that's a true thing.
It's true, yeah, what you'reworth.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
You're worth millions of dollars, and that's a true
thing.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
It's true.
Yeah, from someone who wantedkids and was having trouble
having them there really isn'tan amount right that?

Speaker 2 (47:06):
would be enough, but it shouldn't be taken advantage
of.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Right.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Well, that's why there has to be an altruistic
component, absolutely Right.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
So I love how you just said that, because I
absolutely hate the fact that weare either compensated
surrogates or altruisticsurrogates.
No, I can be both and I am both.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah, and that's what I tell intended parents.
I say compensation is fantastic.
You can never pay a surrogateenough for what she's going to
do for you.
But you have to have a budgetand this is a realistic thing.
Every surrogate deserves to becompensated.
But the surrogates that I likefor my agency have both parts.
They have the altruistic sideas well.
And so how I explain that toeither a parent or a surrogate

(47:49):
when they ask me further aboutthat, I say um, one day the
surrogate is going to be doingher millionth injection and
she's covered in bruises andknots because she didn't massage
right, like those kinds ofthings.
And she's looking at this needleand she's saying I cannot do
this one more day.
But you know what I'm getting,well paid.
So I'm gonna do it becausethat's what I'm paid to do.
And she's gonna do theinjection.

(48:10):
And then the next day she'sgonna draw the needle and she's
gonna look at it again and she'sstill covered in bruises and
she's gonna say to say I cannotdo it today, I cannot do it.
And then the thing she thoughtyesterday like, well, hey,
you're getting paid.
She's going to say who cares?
There's not enough money in theworld for me to stick myself
again.
And then she's going to thinkbut those parents are so cool

(48:32):
and I love them and I love whatI'm helping them do, and for
that reason I'm going to do thisinjection again today, right?
So one day it might bemotivated by her compensation
and the very next day it mightbe motivated for her
heartstrings and and realizingthis greater thing that she's
doing.
So I don't care what themotivations are, she's going to
take her medication, yeah, andthat's the bottom line.

(48:54):
Is, what are the?
What are the surrogatesmotivations?
I love a surrogate who ismotivated by both of those
things and they can live in thesame space, right?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
yeah you're here, yeah, I love it beautifully said
and very true it doesn't what.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
they don't have to be like independent of each other.
You can use the compensation,you can appreciate the
compensation.
You can appreciate thecompensation and do something
really cool with it for yourfamily and also be very kind and
nice and be doing this reallygreat thing.
So some people have aconfidence when surrogates are
like I just want to give thisgift while you're being
compensated.
Is it a gift?

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is of my heart, yes, it
is.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, it's both of those things.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
It is a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Um, I'm looking at my questions here, cause we've
kind of went over.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
All of them, cause I don't know if we put this on
recording or not.
Um, how many babies in the 11and a half years have been
produced from your?

Speaker 3 (49:58):
agency we ended.
The last official count is weended 2024 at 380.
And we've been having, you know, we we matched 88 last year and
so they're all in the processof.
I think if I counted them upwe'd probably land somewhere
around four or 15, four, 20,maybe ready by now and then by

(50:20):
the end of the year.
I guess we'll see, so I don'tum we always celebrate every
pregnancy and every baby as ateam, Um, but I I don't like
really take a tally.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
I do at least once a year, but I don't you know kind
of do that on a regularpregnancy takes over nine months
, especially when you're doinginfertility treatments.
So that's, that's an incrediblesuccess, so it's fun.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
And when the babies are born, um, you know, not all
families like to share openly onsocial media, so my social
media doesn't have a lot of that.
I'm really protective ofeveryone's privacy, but in our
own team, like in our team CRMchat, it's a baby photos all day
long.
Right now it's really cool,Cause it's like several a month
and so we're we're having a goodtime over here.

(51:05):
That's cool.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
That's very cool and I support both sides.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Incredibly well, incredibly well yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
No, you, you do, and I, I'm.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
I'm like where were you my last journey?
Right, Right, right I know thatthere's.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
I know that there's other agencies like me.
No, there are, there are, butyou know it feels.
It feels I mean the more thatwe do this podcast and the more
we talk to people.
We're very thankful that youknow agencies like yours aren't
really think.
Thank, thank goodness they'rebecoming less of a unicorn, if
that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Like they, they're there, it's just like you gotta
find the focus is always on thelike, the media attention of all
these bad things happening.
You know that's part of theproblem is you.
You can have a hundred agenciesdoing really good work and then
the one agency that steals allyour money and, uh, you know,

(52:04):
treats you terribly or refusesto give you, um, what they
promise in their agreement withyou, like all of those types of
things, um, those are the, thoseare the journeys that can ruin
it for everybody.
So that's why it's a bigresponsibility for for an agency
I feel the same way aboutclinics and attorneys and
everyone else that is in ourcommunity it's a huge, huge

(52:26):
responsibility to not screw itup for everybody.
Yeah, same thing in these othercountries too, as we are moving
into other countries to look atoptions there for family
building.
Please go slow, please becareful, because right One
mistake can cost a lot.
This is the sad part for me assomeone who's had the

(52:48):
infertility, and so I canimagine what it's like for
families who really need asurrogate is those people are
out there and the numbers areincreasing of families who need
help and one slip up, onemistake that you don't give your
all to fix.
Mistakes happen even at myagency, but I throw myself on

(53:10):
the sword and fix it immediately.
Right, and if we're not doingthat, then that is going to take
it down for everybody.
Yes, stop this being a viableoption for families.
So it's a huge responsibilityand I think there's a lot of us
who take it really seriously,and then there's some that don't
.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, but I think there's more who do than those
who don't.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, at least, that's what I want to hope and
it has changed a lot in the twoand a half decades that I was
around for doing it and a lot,and I always say it.
I'm so grateful and so happy tosee all of those positive
changes.
Seeds wasn't around, they SRM,all those wasn't around, yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Nope, and I still refer to Sarah, you see, as the
wild, wild West, right?
Uh, except for what?
New york?
Basically, there's no realregulation that requires any
type of real vetting.
We vet everybody for seedsmembership, but seeds is only as
good as the people who knowabout it.
I'm in the group sometimestrying to explain what seeds is
and someone's.
Isn't that that escrow pumpingthat sold everyone's money?

Speaker 1 (54:14):
I'm like no no, that's not them I'm different
acronym right like all thisstuff right?

Speaker 3 (54:20):
wow.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
So people, not enough people to really I'm like no,
that's not them.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Different acronym.
Right Like all this stuff,right, Wow.
So people not enough peoplereally know what SEEDS is and
then doing internationalsurrogacy?
I'm the one that's educatingthe parents internationally
about SEEDS.
So if I'm not a SEEDS member,I'm not doing that and nobody
would know the difference.
Wow, they don't know what thatorganization really is.
It's becoming it's, it's, it'sfiltering out there a little bit

(54:45):
.
So we're working hard to tomake sure that that's more
well-known.
but you know, some agencieschoose not to be a member of
SEEDS or some.
Some of them have good reasonswhy they're not participating.
It doesn't mean they're notethical, but they're just
choosing not to participate andso, um it's.
It's not really clear, butthat's all we got, so we're
clinging to it and I'm sorry youdidn't have that when you were

(55:06):
a surrogate and I'm glad thingshave changed for your daughter a
little bit better.
Maybe, for and maybe for herdaughter a little bit yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Wouldn't that be fun.
We could get a trilogy going onhere.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
But then that's your responsibility as a former
surrogate.
I think you've done it multipletimes, right?
So, as a former surrogate, yourresponsibility then is to
educate those people in your ownpersonal life about what is and
isn't okay in third-partyfamily building and maybe one of
your kids will.
I mean, my daughter works forme and you guys work together,
and I think that that doeshappen throughout our field and

(55:42):
it's it's catching the path forthis.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I think this next generation is, I think the
millennial generation is moreunderstanding, and then I think
Gen Z I think is after them islike even more, just like yeah,
yeah, Live your life Likewhatever.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Then I'm like finally , my older kids are millennial,
my daughter's Gen Z, and shejust thinks this is the coolest
job she could have on the planet.
She loves it.
Envision doing anything elseand she is so open.
You know we help a lot of LGBTQfamilies and she just, you know

(56:16):
, human beings are human beingsin that, in that um generation,
you know, and everyone'sdeserving of care and love and
you live your life withoutauthenticity and everyone else
should mind their own business.
It's very much that generationand those are after us.
Yep, as long as our work cancontinue.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Yeah, it will it, will it, will it, will it, will,
it, will it, will it, will itwill Heck yes, heck, yes, oh my
gosh.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
So, dawn, if people want to, if surrogates or
intended parents want to workwith your agency, where do they
contact you?
Where do they go?

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Oh gosh, um, so our, our website is us-surrogacycom.
You can find us online, butit's an interesting issue.
You would need to put USSurrogacy LLC at the end,
otherwise you're just going toget a million articles on
surrogacy in the United States.
So it's it's US, is UnitedStates.

(57:12):
Yeah, it's not us.
It's never about us, right?
So it's not.
I didn't even think of that.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
I knew it was United.
That's funny.
I thought, of course it'sUnited States.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Oh we didn't even ask .
I'm over here being like yeah,united States surrogacy.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
So it's us surrogacy.
No, no, no, it's United States,united States.
Yeah, that's what I thought itwas Okay.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
U S surrogacy.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
But put the LLC behind it.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Yeah, it needs the LLC, okay A search for us, for
you guys to pop up.
Okay, that is us-saragasycom.
We're on Facebook and Instagramand everything else.
And that's where all the funstuff happens on those other
social media platforms.
But yeah, you can find us dawnat us-saragasycom is my email.
You can always reach me there.

(57:57):
Saragasy and family building Um, it's, uh, my favorite topic in
the whole world to talk about.
So sorry, I was so chatty.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
I thought this is a podcast.
I would hope you're chatty.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Oh, I don't know, like I had your list of
questions.
Um, yeah, and and gosh, I hope,I hope I have enough to say,
and probably, are now.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
No, we can.
I'm sitting over here like anhour is not enough.
I feel like we could totallytalk to you again, Cause you're
just so the coolest.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
subject wealth of information.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Yes, we talk about this all the time.
This is all we want to talkabout, so we're right there with
you.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Friends and family are like really again more.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yeah, that's what they say to us too I'm an
international program.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
I have a lot of domestic families as well, um,
which I love, all over theunited states and and and I get
to travel all over the world forwork and meet amazing, hopeful,
hopeful parents all over theworld that are relying on women
like the two of you in theunited states to help them.
So thank you for you know I'm amilitary person, so I'll say
thank you for your service allover the world that are relying

(59:02):
on women like the two of you inthe United States to help them.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Thank you, for you know, I'm a military person, so
I'll say thank you for yourservice.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Oh yeah, there you go , there you go.
Well, thank you for yours.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Because with agencies like you, it makes it a lot
more comfortable and a lot moresafe for intended parents and
surrogates.
Just speaking of the surrogatemyself, I would feel really safe
having you guide me on ajourney, and that's saying a lot
.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
It is saying a lot coming from her.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
A hundred percent Yep I love my work and I appreciate
that you love your free work.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
You're educating people about what this is and
what it should be and, um, yeah,you know, I don't hold anything
against you for telling peopleto see the profile first.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
I really get.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
I'm like, oh my God, she hates me.
I realized the benefit of thatand if it's important to a
surrogate, then I make itimportant to me too.
And so, no, no hard feelingsthat you know we have different
perspectives, that I see it'seasy for me to see things your
way and I think you maybe sawthings a little bit differently
too.
Yeah, so I appreciate thecandor um about on that around

(01:00:07):
that topic yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
I really and but and I really appreciate you being
open to having the conversation.
That's the thing, if somebody'sopen to having the conversation
on the other person's viewswe're open to listen people are
always open to come to acompromise or something.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Boy, if they could apply that outside of surrogacy
and just in general, we wouldn'tbe in this we wouldn't be in
this position wouldn't it be abeautiful?
world yeah, yeah, that that is awhole nother podcast.
So getting ready to do awebinar for a big, uh, big
association um out of the on onbirthright citizenship and how
that may affect getting them,you know, getting them home with

(01:00:43):
their families, and it's aconcern for for families, you
know, everywhere where there'sinternational programs outside
of parents here in the U S.
So we'll see what that lookslike and maybe I'll talk to you
again about that as it starts toshake out and we find pathways
home for these families.
so keep us in your hearts, andattorneys too, as we navigate

(01:01:03):
this new answer gosh, yes,absolutely thank you, thank you
so much for taking the time totalk to us, yeah okay, well,
thank you, and I look forward tomaybe seeing you in person one
day thank you you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Have a great evening.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Thank you, it was really nice to talk with you.
We'll see you in the fall.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Yeah, bye, bye-bye.
Oh my gosh, how awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
It was very I was.
I was just like I could justsit back.
She just keep talking.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
No, but like, really like we could do a whole other
podcast, but I feel like wecould like ask like a whole
other thing of podcast questions, like she's just very sweet and
informative and and veryimmersed in the community, very
immersed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
And knowledgeable on like all things, Cause she had
it from every angle it was.
I was like, oh, I didn't reallythink about that with the whole
profile thing.
Like that really opened my eyesand I thought you know what?
Because no?

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
one has been respectful enough to sit us down
and be like oh well, this iswhere we're coming from.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Oh, okay great.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Because the people that I've worked with that's not
where they were coming from.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Exactly.
But it seems that her agency isthat way and they know they're
people they're working with sovery, very well that why do you
want to break hearts that wayand why do you want to get
somebody invested?
Let's just do it this way,first, exactly.
Why not?
Yeah, why not, doesn't?

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
hurt Doesn't hurt Well, thank you, grace, for
introducing us, and thank you somuch, dawn, for taking the time
to talk with us.
This was your beautiful insideand out, and so thank you so
much.
If anybody has any questions orstories they would like to
share, please feel free to reachout to us on Instagram at stop
period sit period surrogate, oryou guys can email us at stop

(01:02:47):
period sit period surrogate atgmailcom.
And this has been anotherepisode of stop sit surrogate
with Kennedy and Ellen.
Why are you laughing, ellen?
I said you do that so well fromlike a billion times.
All right, have a great night,everyone Bye, everybody Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to give us a
like and subscribe.
Also, check out the link to ourYouTube channel in the
description, and be sure to alsocheck out our children's book
my mom has superpowers, sold onAmazon and Etsy.