From Two Journeys To Building The Surrogacy Doula Program

#surrogacy 
#ivf 
#surrogate 

Kristen’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kristenbellettmartinez?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Birth can be beautiful, messy, and intensely logistical—especially when you’re carrying for someone else. We sit down with Kristen, a multi-time surrogate and former agency intake coordinator, to trace her path from a pandemic C-section for placenta previa to a confident VBAC with international intended parents racing into the room as the baby crowned. Along the way, she shares what most guides skip: the fourth trimester after surrogacy, the emotional whiplash of shifting contact after delivery, and how hospital routines often ignore surrogacy preferences unless someone speaks up.

Kristen also lifts the curtain on agency intake: why education beats pressure every time, how simple check-ins and care packages change the tone of a journey, and what she learned turning leads into engaged, informed applicants. After a tough year trying to rejoin the industry as staff, she created the Surrogacy Doula program—a virtual service built for surrogates and intended parents that blends monthly support, perinatal nutrition guidance, and real-time messaging with thoughtful mediation when tensions rise. She helps craft surrogacy-savvy birth plans, clarifies roles in the delivery room, and gives IPs practical ways to bond before birth, from shared playlists to mindful rituals that bridge the distance when they didn’t carry the baby themselves.

If you’re weighing VBAC after C-section, navigating domestic vs international IP dynamics, or searching for a surrogacy doula who understands both the paperwork and the heart-work, this conversation is a blueprint. We talk closure language for contracts, setting hospital expectations for immediate skin-to-skin, and how to keep everyone informed without turning the surrogate into the project manager. Listen for grounded, human-tested strategies that make surrogacy safer, kinder, and more connected.

Enjoyed the conversation? Follow, share with a friend who’s exploring surrogacy, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway so we can keep bringing real stories and practical guidance to your feed.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome.
We are a mother-daughter podcastabout all things surrogacy.
Together, we have brought eightbeautiful babies into this
world, and we would like toshare through education and
knowledge about surrogacy withthose who want to educate
themselves on the topic.
This is Stop, Sit, Surrogate.

(00:20):
Have you ever thought aboutgrowing your family but aren't
sure what your options are?
Or maybe you're someone whowants to help others experience
the joy of parenthood?
That's where the NorthwestSurrogacy Center comes in.
Northwest Surrogacy Center is afull service surrogacy agency
that guides intended parents andsurrogates through every step of
the journey, with compassion,transparency, and personalized

(00:42):
care.
From matching to legal supportto emotional wellness, it may
make what can feel anoverwhelming feel immediately
human and supported.
Whether you're consideringsurrogacy to grow your family,
or you're ready to become asurrogate yourself, the
Northwest Surrogacy Center isthere to walk beside you every
step of the way.
Visit theNorthwesturrogacyCenter.com at

(01:04):
NWSurrogacyCenter.com to learnmore and take the first step
towards something trulylife-changing.
Love it makes families.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Stoppes It
Surrogate with Kennedy andEllen.
Today we have a lovely guestjoining us.
We're gonna let her introduceherself.
Take it away.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
So hi, I'm Kristen.
Um, I am a multiple-timesurrogate.
I have worked at a surrogacyagency as well as the intake
coordinator.
Um, right now we have startedsomething new.
Um, I am going to be launching aprogram called the Surrogacy
Doula.
Um I have a background inpostpartum doula work virtually.

(01:49):
Um, and right now I am trainedunder Lori Bregman.
Um, I think she's known aroundCalifornia and LA as like the
doula to the stars.
And so I'm still like, I cannoteven believe that I have the
opportunity to train with her.

SPEAKER_03 (02:03):
Oh cool.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Yeah, and so that's a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
Awesome.
Well, our favorite question toask everybody is how did you
find out about surrogacy?

SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
Okay.
So I've always kind of knownabout surrogacy.
Um, it was more so I I had to gothrough, you know, I had to have
my own kids first, right?
To know that I loved beingpregnant and I loved giving
birth.
Um, I saw a midwife and I hadboth of my boys in a birthing
center, and the process was justso beautiful.

(02:36):
Um, I just, you know, I learnedabout surrogacy.
I was very much done having myown children at the time.
Um it just, I think I had mykids so close together.
It just was very hard back then.
But I really I still loved, youknow, being pregnant and giving

(02:58):
birth and everything.
And so I looked into someagencies, did some research, um,
listened to some podcasts.
That's actually how I found theagency that I went, you know,
with.
Yeah.
And um it was it was one ofthose, um, I forget what it was
called back then, some kind ofmom podcast.

(03:18):
But they um, I think one of theintended parents was like with
the agency, and so they justthey had the owner come on and
everything.
So that was really cool.
But um, yeah, I found out aboutthat and I just kind of like I
wanted to do it.
I had to convince my husband atfirst, because you know, I feel
like every husband or everypartner kind of comes into it

(03:40):
and they're like, Well, that'sreally dangerous.
I don't want anything to happento you, right?
And you have to kind of like hitthem with the facts, you have to
do your research and hit themwith the science.
And, you know, actually, it'syou know, it does come with some
risks as far as like you know,IVF and all of that, but as far
as the pregnancy and the birth,it's really no no different.

(04:00):
At least for me, you know, itwasn't.
And so um, we just kind of wentall in.
We interviewed a few agencies,and um, ultimately, I think our
heart was just like dead set onthat one.
And so I went with them and Iwas matched like as soon as all
of my like each step, you know,was done.

(04:21):
I think I was matched almostimmediately.
And so that was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
That's very cool and very quick.

SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
Love, love when that happens, right?

SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
How many years ago did you do your first one?

SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
Uh we started in 2020.
Oh god, pandemic.
And then I think uh yeah, yeah.
And then I had the baby in 2021,like at the very, very end.
Okay, that is fast.

SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
So you started literally in the pandemic, not
like January, February, like youwere in pandemic times.

SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Wow, yeah.
Like we're in the everywhere.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
I mean, what what better way to bypass COVID than
be pregnant, really?
Yeah, can't go anywhere, can'tdo anything.

SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
So can I ask, were you working with the agency when
you did surrogacy, or did thatcome after you did surrogacy?
After you did a journey.

SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Yeah, so that was after I had already kind of
begun my second journey.
Um, and they came to me.
They were looking to hire anintake coordinator, and I had no
idea, you know, I was just kindof a stay-at-home mom at that
point.
I was like dabbling in realestate, but my heart wasn't
really in it.
Um not for me, but I was doing abit, like I said, postpartum

(05:38):
doula work virtually.
Um, but no, um, they yeah, theyapproached me and they were
like, you know, we think youwould be really great at it.
Um, we'll teach you everythingyou need to know.
And they did, and I ended upbeing really, really good at it,
and I loved it so much.
And one of the things that Idid, um, you know, as an intake

(05:59):
coordinator, you're getting onthe phone with all of the
surrogate applicants and um, youknow, kind of educating them.
Favorite part, like you don'tknow what you don't know.
And so I think going into it,you know, letting them know what
they need to know, like all ofthe important things, you know,
that was really, really fun forme.

(06:20):
I felt like it was veryimpactful.
Um, and then let's see, justkind of keeping up with them.
So I did that for gosh, I don'teven know how many months.
It somewhere between three andsix.
I was in Tick Coordinator.
And then um I was asked to dotheir um their gift box program.

(06:42):
And so that was a really funone.
I um I kind of I had kind oflike creative freedom to kind of
do what I wanted with that, andso I came up with these fun
themes uh for each month, and Iwould you know reach out to our
surrogates and hey, do you needanything?
How is it going?

(07:02):
You know, before I get this boxtogether, here's the theme.
But if you're needing somethingelse, you know, let me know and
we'll we'll work on that.
I love that.
Yeah, it was so fun.
It was it I would be on therejust shopping all the time.
Like I had a budget, of course,but like what a dream.

SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Amazon.
If I could just like shop onAmazon, that's like a dream.

SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Somebody else's money, hell yes.
Okay, thank you.
And then give it to people whoare so deserving.
Uh win win.
Oh, and get paid check.

SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
Wait, right, and so I did all of that for I want to
say a year and two months.
And then my husband and I, wehad these other things we wanted
to do, like we wanted to becomefoster parents, and then we were
starting up um another businessthat we've kind of put on the
back burner, it's not evenrelevant, but um yeah, and so um

(07:57):
the whole foster thing kind offell through just because we
couldn't find a training.
Um we couldn't find a trainingthat the hours that we had to be
there.
It was like from six to nine atnight.
And we have two small, you know,we have two small kids.
We can't just like up and youknow, and we couldn't find a

(08:17):
sitter who would be willing toso can I pause right there?

SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
I'm sorry, can I pause right there?
I didn't know that you had to goto training to be a foster
parent.
Yes, yeah, yeah, okay.
That makes me feel a little bitbetter about foster and parent
checks and yes, CPR.

SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Yeah, you've got to do stuff.
I don't know all kinds of likeit's not only like a foster care
training, but you also have todo like first aid, CPR, um very
in-depth, like um likebackground checks and all of
that.
Yeah, yeah, it's um it's reallyhard to get into, and I think
that's why more people aren'tdoing it because it's difficult.

SPEAKER_02 (08:58):
But to that point, Chris, you don't want just
anybody doing it, you want thosewho are willing to do it for the
long haul and whose hearts arein the right place, it's just
like surrogacy.
The heart's like adoption, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've always wanted to do it, butI couldn't get my husband on
board.
That's a whole nother podcast.
It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
So you had a journey and then you did the jobs, and
then did you do another secondjourney during the job, yes or
no?

SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
Yeah, during the job.
Yeah, second.

SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
So, how how were your pregnancies?
How were your how was yourmatching?
How was the whole thing?

SPEAKER_00 (09:32):
Uh, everything was really good.
Matching was great.
I feel like I was I'm probablyone of the easiest.
You know, I'm kind of like ifthey want to have a business,
you know, you know, all of thematch preferences.
I'm just like kind of laid backwith it.
I really did.

SPEAKER_02 (09:48):
You have any specific wants or desires, you
and your husband going insaying, listen, it's gotta be,
they have to be within 20 miles,it has to be same sex, like any
wants or wishes that were big,like top two or three, or were
you just easy going?

SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
Easy going for the most part.
We wanted someone kind, notsomeone who would, you know, not
talk to us, not ask about theirchild.
I just didn't want it to feeltoo business like, I guess.
I wanted to feel that sense ofat the very least, I care about
my kid and how my kid is comingup, you know.

(10:23):
Yeah, for sure.
And I've heard that's not thecase for everyone, and sometimes
you don't know until you're init.

SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
A lot of the times you won't know till you're like
three, four months pregnant.
You didn't mean you just gottabe real careful, it's hard.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
I'm glad you you found people, right?
That were in in the journey,they were like, Yes, present.
Yes, very close by.

SPEAKER_00 (10:49):
Oh, sorry.
Sorry, go ahead.
Were they close by or far away?
Well, far away.
I have one intended parent.
Um well, her I I'm I talked tothe intended mothers, I wasn't
really close at all to theintended fathers.
That's that's um, yeah.
So the first journey, um, theylive in Florida, and then the
second journey wasinternational.

(11:11):
Oh, it was.

SPEAKER_02 (11:12):
Oh, what countries what's the biggest difference
between domestic andinternational?
I think I know the answer, butmaybe I don't.

SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
I think just the time difference, yeah.
Because they both they bothreached out, you know, uh
multiple times a week.
Um, and then there my firstinternal mother, I think we were
talking every day.

SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
Oh very yeah, was it the first baby for your first
couple?
Had they had no children?

SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
This was the first go at it, or uh no, they they
already had two children.
Um, the the pregnancies werejust really dangerous for mom
and the babies.
Oh, um, yeah, so interesting forsurrogacy.
And what was really cool too iswhile I was pregnant, um, they
had adopted a little girl.

(12:01):
Oh wow, they were chili bumps.
Are you kidding?
Yeah, it was so sweet.
Oh my god, they really must havewanted kids, like a big family,
and to celebrate that with them,that was really special for me
too, you know, because I wantedto do, you know, I've always
wanted to be a foster parent,um, you know, so I don't know.

(12:22):
That was just really special.

SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
That's so sweet.
So this was the 2020 couple,right?
Yes, yeah, okay.
And so when it came fortransfer, it was it one embryo?

SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
And the first one stuck.
So that was a nice experiencefor me.
Yeah, for sure.
Because I wanted to do it again,yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Right, right.
How'd the how'd the pregnancygo?
Like, did you have any uh didyou pass your diabetic screen?
You know, did you pass all thatstuff?
Flying colors?

SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
It was all really great.
Um, it ended in it ended in aC-section.
Um, it was partial, uh placentaprevia.
It didn't move.
And so Okay, good.
Yeah, we just went for that.
And it was it was good, youknow.
The the whole thing was good.
It's just the recovery wasreally difficult.

SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
Yeah, it's major surgery.
People don't understand that.
It's they're cutting throughlayers and layers and layers of
muscle and skin.
So horrible.
I don't get all with Tylenol.

SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Please.
It's so pleased.
Like, I don't get it.
My just like a little like a myhusband had my husband had like
um oh my gosh, what's thatcalled, Mom?
ACL.
AC, right?
The ACL tear, right?
He got so much time off.
He got so much time off and gooddrugs.
I mean, good drugs.
And then and then freaking, youknow, women get sliced open to

(13:42):
like their core, and it's likeyou're gonna go back in six
weeks and like here's some time.
Like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Get up, walk around, resume everything immediately,
and take care of all yourchildren at home because that's
easy to do with the stomachrecovery.

SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
So mind blowing.
It's so I mean, it's just wild.
So, yeah.
So, was that hard?
How old were your children atthis point?

SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Oh my gosh, they were so I had they were little
because they're yeah, myyoungest, he had just turned
one.
He had been one for a while.
Like, I that's little.

SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
We're still diapers, we're still turtle learning how
to walk.

SPEAKER_00 (14:17):
You're still bending and picking up baby, like uh, I
well, I didn't until like I didnot feel good until a week
later.
I could not function.

SPEAKER_03 (14:28):
It was poor thing, but we did set up care.

SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
We had my mother-in-law who came
immediately.
Um she helped out.
My husband helped out as much ashe could.
He worked too full time, morethan full-time, even he was
doing overtime.
Wow, and then my mom came tohelp as well.
So we did have that supportthere.
That's great.
So that's that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
Yes, you need to still it's other people in your
house, and it's you're not backto your routine and you feel
like crap, and it's a lot.
People don't understand thatfourth trimester of surrogacy,
it's a big one.
A fourth trimester of anything.
Oh, yeah.
If you have a if you have a um,if you have a c section or if
it's vaginal, I don't care, it'sstill tough.
You're trying to get back toyour life.
Okay, so you recovered, yeah.
I'm open.

(15:09):
Yes, yeah, okay, good, good foryou.

SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
And um, how quickly after were you like, gotta do it
again?

SPEAKER_00 (15:16):
Oh, after the C section, uh-uh.
I I was like, I'm gonna spend mytime with this.
Like, I do not feel good.
This was not ideal.
Um but then I think it wasaround the six-month mark, the
agency had reached out to measking if I wanted to do it
again.
And if so, um, they had someoneum who they wanted me to meet.

(15:37):
They think we'd be a reallygreat match.
And I was of course, yes, I willmeet them.
Of course, I want to do it.
Wow.
Yeah, and so of course we stillhad to wait the year before we
could transfer, but we we werewe were ready to go.
It was a really great match, andum, you know, that IP really

(15:57):
needed someone um I thinkexperienced and someone laid
back who would like, I guessreally listen to her and you
know, all of her concerns.
And so, you know, that was anexperience too, like learning
how to be a team player andtaking someone else's, you know,
like feelings into account.
But then I was also in aposition where I've done this

(16:20):
before, and so the you know, thethings that she and I had talked
about, you know, I was kind oflike a source of comfort for
her.
Like you've done this, I trustyou.
And so that felt really great.
That's super cool.

SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
We're so we're both of these, were both of your
couples, well, one, were theycouples?
Like, are they heterosexualcouples?
Are they single parents?
It just worked out that yeah,they were heterosexual.

SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
Yeah, I was just curious.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
Did the second journey have children already,
or is this the first experiencefor them?

SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
Oh no, that was their first experience.

SPEAKER_02 (16:53):
I can understand where she's very worried, and
that was international, right?
Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (17:04):
Okay, was married, someone who has done it before,
which I guess the whole likemarried thing was wasn't
necessarily like anything weird,it just had to do with she
wanted her surrogate to havethat extra support, yeah, and
stability, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:20):
You're not doing it solo all by yourself, like we we
we count on those partners for alot.
A whole lot, yeah.

unknown (17:29):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
Okay, so how did the when did you end up meeting them
in person?

SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
Your international couple when I was pushing their
baby out, really like so we havedone plenty of FaceTimes, uh
phone calls, you know, lots oftexting.
Um, but no, yeah, it was likethey walked in.
I'm about to like their kid iscrowning.

SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
Yeah.
Okay, we'll just that.
Was it just timing on their partwhere they just couldn't get a
flight, or it just you wentearly?
What happened?
We'll get to that.
Oh, sorry, what are we gettingto?
What am I missing?

SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
We're we're we're missing the whole pregnancy.
Oh, sorry.
How um so okay, so was this alsojust a single transfer?

SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
Yep, the first one took that time as well.
Wow, girl.

SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
And everything was good.
Did you ever have a I can neversay it right, the subachronic
hematoma, either pregnancy?
No, god that's amazing.
You're that's rare.

SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
That is.
I didn't even know really.
Like, there's a backstory.
I I'm actually we're expectingour own.
We can edit this part out if youwant to expect a little girl
now.
And I did have one with her.
I was like, what is that?
Do I need to worry?
Like, what do I do?
Right.
And they're like, oh girl, it'sit's mostly in most cases, it's

(18:47):
implantation.

SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
So I'm like, um, okay, good.
So no, so no sub chronichematomas.
That's good.
And your pregnancy, are you areyou good?
Is your son still one or is hetwo at this point?
For the second journey, yeah,right?
Or is he a little older?

SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
Um I can't even tell you how old they were.
Uh they're probably a littlemaybe two years older.
He was probably four at thispoint, and then my oldest,
probably five, I want to say.

SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Okay, okay.
So now they're kind ofunderstanding what mommy does.

SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Yeah, the last, the last baby, though.
They uh they've always been verylike really great about it.
They've they've known, you know,this is not our baby, you know,
mommy's doing this for someoneelse, um, someone who, you know,
maybe couldn't do it on theirown.
But I don't really go intodetails with them, I just tell
them like the need to knowstuff, and they've always been

(19:44):
so great about it, which is allthey've ever known, really.
Once you think about it.
I started when they weretoddlers.
Yeah, my youngest was a babystill, but um this last journey.
Um, my oldest really wanted tokeep the baby.
He's like, Mom, please, can wekeep him?
And I'm like, Oh, he's not keepand so that was kind of like you

(20:07):
know, that influenced um, youknow, we we wanted to at least
try you know for another siblingafter you know I retired.
Uh yeah.
So you know, glad that workedout.
We weren't sure, you know, if wewould be able to, you know,
conceive.
And so, you know, just becauseof all of the IVF and the

(20:28):
unknowns, like I I fullyunderstand why you're not, you
know, why your family issupposed to be complete.
Like, I get that.
And it I know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
I mean, it's all like I I get it, but it's also
always a risk.
Like, you know what you'regambling at this point, right?
And I hate to say gambling, butlike, you know, like I I had my
son at 20.
I was definitely not ready tohave another child within these,
within this decade.
Like that was like not me.
So, you know, I was like, well,let's fill it with surrogacy.
Absolutely.
Yeah, and but you know, now itsits in the back of my head,

(21:00):
like, did are the IVF meds gonnalike mess me up when I try it?
Like, what's gonna happen now?
How am I gonna be?
Is my body gonna be weird?
Because now it's now I have todo it on my own.

SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
But yeah, yeah, so we were just kind of like, if it
happens, that's great, that'swonderful, that'll be a
blessing.
If it doesn't, you know, we knewthat was, you know, a
possibility and we'll be fineregardless.
Um, but yeah, anyway, we canmove on.

SPEAKER_03 (21:25):
You're good, you're good, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
We'll be right back.
But first, I want to take aquick moment to talk about
something close to my heart,helping families grow through
surrogacy.
If you've ever thought aboutbecoming a surrogate or if
you're an intended parent readyto start your journey, Paying It
Forward Surrogacy is here toguide you every step of the way.
At Paying It Forward Surrogacy,you're not just a number, you're
supported, celebrated, andconnected with real people

(21:50):
who've walked this path before.
Whether you're just starting toexplore or ready to take the
next step, they'll make sure youfeel informed, empowered, and
cared for from day one.
Visit Paying It ForwardSurrogacy.com to learn more.
That's Payingit ForwardSurrogacy.com because every
journey to parenthood deservesheart, honesty, and the right
support.
Now let's get back to theepisode.

(22:14):
Okay, so your pregnancy, yoursecond journey went smoothly.

SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Yep.
And I had a V back.

SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
So that's what I'm saying.
You said when I she was cr whenthe baby was crowning, I'm like,
oh, this girl had a V back.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
Yeah.
There was a thing though.
Thank you.
There was a thing though.
Um, my intended parent was very,very nervous about that.
What was what is it like lessthan one percent chance of um
like a rupture?
Rupture, right?

SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
What what what ruptures?
I think I know, but just whatwhat would rupture?
What's the one percent?

SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
Uterus, uterus, okay, okay, uterus rupture and
you would lose mom and baby,right?
Like, I mean, the blood losscould be significant, right?

SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
Yeah, and she was super, super nervous about it.
And we also I had a high-riskdoctor who was monitoring me.
Um, there was apparently like adivot in my scar.
And so, you know, if that werethe case, we would move forward
with another C-section.
And then I wouldn't, like, Iwould, yeah, that just there
would be no possibility.

(23:15):
Like in the future, I just wouldnot want to do it again.
Okay.
So anyway, he kept monitoringthat.
My doctor turns out everythingwas great.
Um, but still, my intent, my IP,she was just very nervous about
it.
And so I would be too.

SPEAKER_03 (23:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
If I were your mother, I would be nervous about
it.
I'm sorry, I just come on,somebody's gonna be that one
percent.
I'm not saying it should be you,but somebody is all the time,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Right, right.
Yeah, but then you know, mydoctor, she looked at all of our
scans and she was like,everything looks great.
You're a prime candidate for a Vback if you want to do that.
And so in my mind, though, I wasalready kind of resigned to you
know, moving forward with theC-section.
So I kept telling everybody, I'mokay with it, I'm at peace with
it.
Um, you know, I'm I feelprepared, I'm I know what to

(24:03):
expect, so I can set things upto you know, have an easier
recovery, you know, what haveyou.

SPEAKER_03 (24:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:10):
So then it was sometime in my third trimester
when it hit me.
I was like, I do not want to gothrough that again.
Why would I?
No, correct.
Um it there was drama too, likenot with me and my IP, but like
other people.
There was some drama about allof this, even though I kept

(24:31):
telling everyone I'm fine withit, this is what I want to do.
But when it really hit me, I waslike, okay, this is on me.
This is my responsibility totalk to my intended parent and
let her know, like, I'm verycomfortable with this.
I feel confident that this willgo well.
I'm like, I have to tell her howthis will impact me if you know
I do another surgery.

(24:52):
Right.
Um, and so I I really did.
I came at her verycompassionately.
I told her, you know, my truth,and she she took a little bit of
time.
I I want to say she took aboutan hour before she responded,
and then she was like, Yeah, youknow, we'll support you, we'll
do this.

SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
And so it's really sweet.

SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
Because ultimately, if it wasn't progressing and
going the right way, you'reright there, you're not doing it
in a birthing center, right?
You're in the hospital, and youimmediately can go into a
C-section and both lives can besaved.
So you're setting yourself upfor um success either way, you
did it.
Either way, but why not try?
Why not try?
If Doc gave you the thumbs up,like yeah, especially a

(25:34):
high-risk doc, they're givingyou thumbs up.
Yeah, good for you.
Yeah, so how long was thatlabor?
Oh uh question.

SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
What do you call it?
I I I know what it's called,predromal labor, or is it do you
pronounce it a different waywhere it's kind of like your
body is in and out of labor?
Like it's not real labor.
Uh-huh.
What you're still like duringthe day, um, you'll have labor,
okay, and you'll be consistent,but then you go to bed at night

(26:07):
and they're gone.
They're gone.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (26:10):
So it's different than Braxton Hicks.

SPEAKER_00 (26:12):
Yes, yes.
And so y'all, I did that for aweek.
No, I was exhausted.
I barely got any sleep.
Wow.
And um, so when the time didcome, um I I labored all day and
I knew I kind of knew like thisis the day it's gonna happen.
My husband's gonna have to comehome soon, he's gonna have to

(26:32):
drag me over.
Um, uh how quick was it?
Um so that evening around sixo'clock, we went to the
hospital, checked in, uh laboredfor a little bit.
I believe I had the baby around6 a.m.
Okay, like next morning.
So about 12 hours.

SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
When when when since you're doing this all week, this
is labor's kind of starting andstalling and starting and
stalling.
What are the IPs doing?
Are they like, oh, we're gettingover there, we've got to get on
a plane?
Or are they like literallywaiting till you check into the
hospital?
And what week are you at?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
I was when I delivered, I believe I was right
at 39 weeks.
Okay.
You're trying.

SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
And they weren't here yet.
The international.

SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
Yeah, they they said they were here for maybe two,
two or three days, and then Ihad so that worked out.
Okay, good.
They were tired, they were likesetting up the Airbnb and stuff,
and I'm like, hey, it'shappening right now.
Yeah, and there, and like almostimmediately I have the baby.

SPEAKER_03 (27:35):
Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 (27:36):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
You want, yeah, okay, let's go into that.
Okay.
So, okay, so your husband takesyou to the hospital, and you
call IPs on your way, and you'relike, hey guys, like meet us
over there.

SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Pretty much, yeah.
We're like, hey, we're checkingin.
Um uh what did I how did I can'tremember exactly how it went.
Sure.
I got checked.
I think I told her my dilation.
Okay.
Uh labored a little bit longer.
And she kept asking me, she wasvery excited.
Should we come now?
Should we come?

SPEAKER_03 (28:07):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
I'm like, let me let's see, let's give it a
little bit longer.
Okay.
And so it did go very quickly.
Um, I decided to go for theepidural.

SPEAKER_03 (28:18):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
Yeah, I mean, it was my first like attempt to, you
know, have a vaginal birth aftera season.
And so I was like, yeah, goahead, put it in.
That way we can be ready ifsomething does go wrong.
Right.
I felt that was a very smartmove on my end.
Like, I don't want to die, soput it in my back.
Go ahead.

(28:38):
And so we did that, and thenthey put me on the peanut ball.
And at about that point, it didnot take long.
Like, I remember um I was stillin the first post they put me
in, and then I felt like a gush,and then I felt the pressure on
you.
Yeah, like a poo, you know.
Yep.
And um, yeah, I was like, Icalled the nurse and I said,

(28:59):
Hey, oh, and what's funny too ismy doctor who was on call that
night, she had just left to gohome and eat and get success.

SPEAKER_03 (29:07):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
And so she had to turn around on her way home and
come catch the baby.

SPEAKER_02 (29:12):
Oh, how cool that she she was your doc and she was
on call in there.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 (29:18):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
That's great.
No, that is great.
Okay, so then and then they justwalk in like last second.

SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Um, like right.
So the one of the nurses didhave to hold my legs closed
because she came in, she openedmy legs off the peanut ball, she
looked and she slammed them.
Oh my gosh.
And she said, I will get thedoctor to turn around right now.
And so I was like, okay.
And then I told Diego, myhusband, I was like, tell the
IPs to come to me because we'relike any second now.

(29:48):
He's coming.

SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
I was really worried that he was just gonna slide
right out because he Oh my gosh.
I mean, they're having to holdmy legs close.
I was like, What are you gonnado to the nurse?
Yeah, what are you gonna do ifthis baby?
Like comes out and the doctor'snot here.
She said, Well, it wouldn't bethe first time that I had to
catch one, but yeah, I prefernot to put it in.

SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
You can ask a question, and you might not even
know.
Like, you just it might have allblurred together.
But before you were put on thepeanut ball, did you know how
far you were dilated?

SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Probably, but I can't remember.
Okay, because the peanut ballmust have been.
Like get on the peanut ball,your baby will be here within an
hour.
Like, yeah, I believe.
So they got to see the babyborn, yes.
They they stayed, they theydidn't want to like you know be

(30:40):
dumb.
Okay, but they were in the room,but yeah, okay.
And the idea was the baby wasgonna go straight to them.
Okay, uh, but the nurse and I Itold them that I was like, I I'm
not gonna be the one to holdhim.
Like, he needs to go to hisparents, they need to change his
skin, all of that.
But he comes out and they likethrow him on my chest, and
they're like wiping him down,making him cry.

(31:02):
And I'm like, what is this?
Because I have not like givenbirth like that in the hospital
before, and so I really didn'texpect that, you know.
With my two at the birth center,I had the baby, they gently put
him on my chest, they you know,draped him with towels, and we
just like lay there forever.

SPEAKER_01 (31:20):
Yeah, it's very different, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:23):
Well, that's like wow, they just were going
through muscle memory, they werejust this is how a normal
birthday.

SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
No, that's no excuse.
Excuse me.
No, no, no.
I I I'll make this really short.
I had a complication when my sonwas born, so he wasn't thrown
onto me, so he had to go awayfor 45 minutes.
And I was so, so adamant withevery doctor and every nurse and
every time I gave birth, and Iwas like, you will not throw
that baby on me because I willnot be doing this with a
surrogate baby before I do thiswith my own baby.

SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
So it's interesting with you though, because I was
there, you told them literallybaby's crowning, and you're
like, remember, baby's notcoming.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
No, I was like, not not for me.
You can hold this because all ofthem, all of them had the cord
blood, so they would just holdthem like Zimba.

unknown (32:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (32:11):
And doctors like literally write down ready to
catch you, like, remember.
I'm like, oh, she's got it.

SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Okay, I never would have thought to tell them that
because I just assumed likeBilly's parents, not me, yeah,
right.

SPEAKER_01 (32:23):
Right, right.
Well, and like sometimes andlike, yeah, that would be like
the because I've heard of otherpeople too where it's like um
like the dad or the mom alreadykind of like has like their
shirt off and like they're readyto go.
And so as soon as baby's born,then here you go.
Now it's like skin to skin.
They're like at the chair nextto you, but like you know, it
goes like that.

SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Is this intended mom upset the baby didn't go?
Oh okay.

SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
She I think they both were they're very nervous.
And she kind of just like Ilooked over at my intended
mother when they threw him onme, and I'm just like, do I
touch him?
Like, I don't even know what todo in this situation.
That's a lot.
She's like crying, she's so likeall struck.
Like she saw the son for thefirst time, you know.

(33:07):
It was like, and I I he was ason, but I mean, I mean, like,
you know, yeah, literallyfiguratively, every all of it.
Yeah, yeah, so sweet.
That was the most amazing thingto see her looking like that.
It was so special.
Oh my god.
Eventually, you know, they tookhim and they had to do battles
and and all of that.
So did they get to cut umbilicalcord?

SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
Did dad get to cut?

SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
They asked my husband to do it.
I had no idea.
Like, I I I mean, I was likethere, but I had no idea that
they had asked him to do that.
It's so weird.

SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
These have they not dealt with surrogates?

SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
Surrogates, right?
And they wanted my husband tocome.

SPEAKER_02 (33:49):
Oh, I thought it was the hospital.
Hospital needs education.
Got it.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow, that was sweet.
What was behind that?

SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
I honestly have no idea.
I think a small part of themdidn't want to go down there,
you know what I mean?
Respect and privacy people, andso I think that was a part of
it.
And the fact that he is myhusband, I think that was, you
know, he had supported methrough the whole journey.
So maybe they wanted to like,you know, that was their special
way of of thanking him, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
That's where my head went.
I'm like, wow, that's superspecial.
They kind of like we're givinghim like this little honor as
well as like, hey, you helpedbring my son into this world.
That's where my brain's supposedto be.
That's so special, super sweet.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so are they in your roomlike doing scan-to-scan, or do
they get to get to their ownroom like right away?

SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
Well, for a little while, they stayed in the room
with me for as long as like Iwas there.
I guess.
At my hospital, they kind ofkeep me in there for like an
hour or so.
Yeah, yeah, to monitor things.
And then what once you know thatwas up, we all we went to our
own separate um, what do youcall it, postpartum recovery?

(35:03):
Yeah, yeah, thing, somethinglike that.
Yeah, they had me in the littlewheelchair, like and we're with
the baby right beside me, andwe're all all going up the
hallway.
So cute.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 (35:15):
Yeah, how sweet.
So do you get to do your kidsget to come and like meet baby
before baby leaves, or like, isthere an introduction of any
type?

SPEAKER_00 (35:26):
We we did kind of.
Um, so we had we had donesomething separately um with the
IPs, and um, you know, she hadher sister come, her mom came.
Um, we all we took her nephew.
Um I was trying to remember.
So she her sister, you know, hada son, and so we took him and

(35:48):
then my two boys uh to theaquarium here.
And that was just really fun forall of them.
Um, they didn't bring the baby,obviously.
I mean, it's a it's an aquarium,yeah, just one, right?
Right.
Uh, but then a few days beforethey left, we came and saw them
again, and we all kind of had awalk together, and he was in his
little oh, I think they makestrollers now with it's like a

(36:12):
bassinet stroller.
Yeah, okay in there, and it wasall zipped up and stuff.
Mosquitoes are very bad inTexas.
Okay.
They were prepared.
Oh, how funny.
And uh, so the boys did get tolike see him through that.
And um yeah, it was really itwas special.
I mean, it was just it was awalk.

SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
But your sons, like, they were they weren't.
I'm gonna like right.
I'm just gonna like ask thequestion, right?
Do you think your sons werenegatively or positively, or
just like not even impacted bysurrogacy?

SPEAKER_00 (36:46):
That's a good question.
I would either say positivelyimpacted, or maybe not at all at
this point, just because they'reyoung.

SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
Right.
Um it may come out later whenthey get a little older and go,
you know what?
My mom helped somebody have somekids, like you know.
I'm hoping for you know thatthey see the good in it.

SPEAKER_00 (37:06):
Yeah, how could you not see it?

SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
I'm sure they will.
You said you had afive-year-old, right?
At the time, for one, yeah.
They'll they'll remember.
I remember I was five.

SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
Yeah, I was five when my mom did it the first
time.
I remember a lot better.
I don't want them to look backand be like, why didn't why
didn't we give those babiesaway?
Why didn't we keep it?

SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
I think you could no.
They're because you know what,they're not in their lives
making the connection every day.
It's not like a sibling that'sgonna torment you or like play
ball with you, or you know,things like that.
So it's like kind of like out ofsight, out of mind in a way.

SPEAKER_00 (37:41):
Like, but we do get pictures too, and so it's good
for them to see those updatesand see them, you know.
Yes, this is what we did thisfor.
Look how you know, look howhappy, you know, that baby is.
Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:56):
Okay, so okay, so after that, you kind of like
decided to retire.
Did you just did you decide toretire like personally?

SPEAKER_00 (38:05):
Like it was like that's it for the most part,
yeah.
I mean, when it comes tosurrogacy, I like to say never
say never.
Of course, of course, um, but Ithink now in my current
situation, yeah, um it's justit's not going to happen.
I feel very um I feel fulfilledpersonally.

(38:27):
I feel like what I, you know,everything I've done is kind of
complete.
I've had my closure, and youknow, everything is good for me,
and I'm just ready to, you know,help others.
And I have all of these likeexperiences and you know, I have
all of this knowledge thatthere's someone out there who

(38:47):
wants to be a surrogate or anintended parent, and they don't
know the things that I know.
But if they had a doula, youknow, a surrogate, um, you know,
they could be properly educatedand better prepared.
And maybe that's you know, um,maybe that's a different
question.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
No, you know what?
We're going right into it.
I told you it all flows, it allflows, girl.
So be so now that you areretired, what inspired you to
create the surgacy doulaprogram?

SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
Yeah, okay.
So that has a story with that aswell.
So when foster care, when wedecided we're gonna have to put
that to the side until the boysare older, um, I wanted to get
back into it in a in a sensethat I wanted to, you know, work

(39:37):
again.
Okay.
Uh so I applied for a year, youguys.
I applied to agency after agencyfor uh yeah, intake coordinator
roles.
Um I also had it done.
You had all this experience inan agency.
Why wouldn't somebody scoop youup?
I um I don't I think maybe theydidn't believe me when I told

(39:59):
them.
I'm like I said I'm very, verygood at turning leads into
applicants.
Like I'm not even kidding.
I started that job not knowingwhat the heck I was doing.
Yeah, you know, I just learnedwhat what they had taught me to
do.
And then I kind of found my ownway to get people to respond

(40:20):
because they don't always, youknow.
No, true.
You send them an email andthey're not gonna reply to that.
And so I came up with my ownlike system.
And about 90, and I I toldeveryone this about 90 to 95
percent of the time, I would geta response, and that's all you
need to like get in the door.
Yeah, you know, you you gottashow them though, like you at

(40:42):
least you you know, care aboutthem and their experience.
You let them know I'm gonna helpyou.
We'll hop on a call, I'll tellyou what you need to know.
And then that's you know, that'sup to you.
Like, I it was my job, like it'sup to me whether I pressure
someone or not.
And I did not do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (41:01):
It's not a thing that form, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
It's it's and I will, I'm just gonna put this
PSA out there.
If you ever talk to an intakecoordinator and they are
pressuring you, maybe gosomewhere else, maybe talk to
somebody else because it shouldnever be a pressure, it should
be an educational conversation.
That's all it is, right?
That's all it is.

SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
For me, I want you to enjoy your conversation with
me.
And I want you to leave knowingthat you knew something you
didn't know before, and thatyou're confident in the next
decision that you're gonna make.
Right.
Yes, and that's how everybodyshould be.

SPEAKER_01 (41:35):
Yep, right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Yeah, and so I was like, if you don't go with us,
yeah, you know, that's that'syou know, that's okay.
Your decision.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, uh itit also was my job, you know, to
to you know, uh, I want you tocome over here.
Right now, sure, got it, got it.

(41:56):
Yeah, it's a delicate balance,and you did it well.
You did it well, and I want tosee I loved it so much, but
there was no like going back tomy you know, my previous agency
that was not an option, and sowhen I say countless agencies I
applied to, like for over a yearI did that, and then it just and

(42:19):
two, I suspect a little bit theydidn't want to to pay what I
needed, and oh okay, it's likethis is the bare minimum for me
to, you know, for me and myfamily to like live.
It wasn't like oh I'm worth it,you know, pay me right a lot of
money.
No, yeah, like standard, youknow, like I knew what standard

(42:43):
was in and it's not a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (42:45):
I want to throw it out there.

SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
It's not a lot, standard's not a lot, it's not
especially like a part-timeposition, and most of these
were, yeah, and there were somereally um interesting agencies
that you know they offered likea commission, right?
Um, if if this person passesmedical clearance or you know,
something like that, you get acommission.
And so I was like, okay, well,that's that's great because I

(43:09):
know that you know, I do a goodjob at this, and anyway, so that
was a thing.
Um, I I really just don't thinkthey wanted to pay that much,
and I think some of them justdid not believe me.

SPEAKER_01 (43:23):
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(43:44):
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who align with your values, andyou'll have a dedicated case
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Compensation is fair andtransparent, and your health and
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(44:04):
confidentially.
That'sSerenesurrogacyPartners.com.

SPEAKER_00 (44:12):
And so that is a shame.
And believe it or not, Iactually do a lot better over
the phone than I do like onZoom.
And so on the phone, like youare killing it.
Do not sell yourself short.
No, but um, I always say that,I'm always nervous, but I think
it's like the ADD in me wherelike when I'm looking at

(44:33):
someone, I can't really thinkabout what I'm what I'm saying.
Okay, I can just like I'mlooking at you guys and I'm
enjoying like the conversation,but my mind is like, what did
she just ask me?
Aw, um so a year of strugglingto get a job in the industry
goes by, and I'm like, okay, I'mgonna have to do something

(44:56):
myself.
If I want to be in, like if Iwant to work in the surrogacy
industry, I gotta do somethingmyself.
And so I considered, what if I,you know, open my own agency?
I know how to do it, I know, youknow, all of that.
Yeah, um, I have money saved up,I can pay for you know,
marketing, attorney, likeeverything.

(45:17):
I'm good.
I can bootstrap and be good.
But then I was like, uh it's alot, yeah, as we both know at
this point, it's a lot, and so Idon't know, it took a little
while, it took a while ofthinking and brainstorming.
And I was like, I've always hadone foot in the door of you know

(45:37):
working as a doula, it's alwaysbeen a passion of mine, and a
lot of times as a postpartumdoula, I just I would help
people for free, just becauselike I didn't have a ton of
clients, you know, it just waslike they come in here and
there, and so I was like, Can Iask a question?

SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
No, I don't want to stop the train though, but
you're saying postpartum doula.
So to me, postpartum is afterthe birth, right?

SPEAKER_00 (46:04):
Can you so I trained for that first?
Yeah, okay.
I did that training back in2020, and so I just had like a
little trickle of of clientscome in and I would help them
out, but I never like fully youknow went into that.
I never tried to make that acareer.
Okay.
Um, I probably should have, youknow, because then I would have

(46:25):
all of this experience.
But um, the training now thatI'm almost finished with is for
um birth doula, so pregnancycoach and birth doula training.
Okay, and so yeah, that's that'sa whole you know different
blogging, but it's like all ofthe different, you know, not
necessarily like preconception.

(46:45):
I don't really mess with that.
That's yeah, it's it'sdifferent.
Do your own research, but likewhen it comes to surrogate
surrogacy, once you're pregnant,um, all of that, like supporting
you on your journey, like that'smy jam.
That's what I want to do, that'swhat I'm good at, that's why I'm
training.
Um so what inspired me is thefact that I had I had no choice

(47:10):
but to like figure out my ownway in.
And so I kind of found thiswhite space.
Um, I have watched so many, andI believe you are one of them,
but I've watched so manysurrogates and IPs in the
industry who I've you knowfollowed forever, you know, ever
since I started on Instagram.
Like they all like launchedtheir own thing, whether it's

(47:31):
like a referral agency or like ayou know a full onsert or a full
service agency.
Like I've watched it and I waslike, well, why why not me?
Why can't I buy white space andand create something entirely
new?
Yeah, yeah.
And um, I had mentioned it to mytrainer, my doula trainer Lori,

(47:52):
um, and she she loved it.
She was like, that is amazing.
Like there's really no one outthere doing that.
She takes on surrogates and IPstoo herself.
Okay.
But it's different, you know.
She's not like trying to, Idon't, I don't know if
specialize is the right word,but sure it's different.
And plus it's in-person too,because you know, like if
they're in LA, that's where sheworks.

(48:13):
Right.
Um for me, it's gonna be morevirtual, virtual services.
I think under the rightcircumstances, I would love to
make as many in-person births asI can.
I think that would be like sospecial.
Yeah, absolutely.
But it will all be virtualsupport, which is better than
none.

SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
And how would you get the clients?
How how are you marketing?
Are you going through agencies?
What are you doing?
Both.

SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
So I'm doing my own marketing.
Um, my trainer Lori, she will besending referrals.
She said she gets she gets somany referrals, like she
sometimes has to, you know,yeah, like refer them to someone
else.
And so a great problem to have.
Like, if great to be received,of that problem.

(49:02):
Yeah, right.
Yeah, that's wonderful.
And so, um, yeah, and then towork with agencies, that would
be great too.
And so I have come up with my mypackage.
I'm still kind of likefine-tuning it.
I am a perfectionist and I don'twant to, you know, launch
something that I feel is notcomplete and like that I'm not

(49:27):
proud of.
And so I don't want to go to anagency and be like, hey, here's
my idea.
Um, I hope you want to work withme.
No, I want to come to you and belike, here is exactly what I'm
gonna be doing.
Yeah, here's why it it willbenefit you guys as well.

SPEAKER_03 (49:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (49:44):
The idea is to work as a team.
And so even though I'm a thirdparty, um, what do you call it?
An independent contractor, ifyou want, yes, um, we're still
working as a team.
So as long as my surrogate, anintended parent, is my clients,
we'll just call it that, as longas they're comfortable with me
coming to you and saying, hey,this is this is how um we'll

(50:08):
just say surrogate.
Uh, this is how surrogate isfeeling.
This is what's coming up forher.
Um, this is the support sheneeds.
Um, if it's not something that Ican do, which I can I can
probably make just aboutanything work, it everyone just
works together as a team.
Like to know how your surrogatesare feeling, especially if they

(50:30):
don't feel comfortable coming toyou.
Correct.
There have been cases for me,you know, where I have felt odd
going, you know, to it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 (50:42):
And it's not anything, it's it's not anything
that the agency has necessarilydone to make you feel weird.
It's just like it's just thatawkwardness of like, well, I'm
not paying you, I'm making, I'mI'm getting a compensation out
of this.
You're being paid by the IPs.
Are you more on their side?
Like, it's just it's just likeall of that that sticks in your

(51:03):
head as like a survey.

SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
If I bring this up to the agency, is this
inappropriate?
Because like the problem, right?
They want to hand like I don'tknow if it is is it just you
know what I mean.
Just like right.

SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
You don't you don't ever want to rock the boat, so
it's like let's just ask a thirdparty because there's more
comfortability there.

SPEAKER_02 (51:24):
So as a dual to a surrogate and uh and an IPs who
are working together, right?
Part of these doula services areyou can mitigate, you you you
can be the go-between.
That's that's unusual for adoula.
So that's a step above, like,right?

SPEAKER_00 (51:41):
Like, I I think it I don't know.
I think it's it's a really goodidea too, though.
Oh, I do.

SPEAKER_01 (51:47):
I think it's fantastic.
I wish I had that.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (51:50):
No, because surrogates are gonna be quiet.
They're the there's a lot,they're not gonna say anything
and hold on to whatever might bebothering them with all those
hormones and all those thinkingthat it's and it could have just
been an easy conversation withsomeone who isn't quite
connected to the agency whocould say, Oh, hold on a second,

(52:11):
yeah, here we go, and boom,that's done, stress-free.
Here we go, the next trimester,and let's have a healthy
outcome.
Like that's all it could take,but sometimes the surrogate
doesn't know that.
So if she has somebody in herback pocket, right, it's just
somebody in her back pocket,hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:29):
A lot of times surrogates don't know that they
have they even have a say orthey have options, you know,
they go in the agency, they talkto, they do whatever they're
told to do.
Like they don't know that theyhave all of these options and
that they have and so you knowthat's kind of part of it too.
A doula's job is to educate, youknow, not just but to educate

(52:49):
fully.

SPEAKER_02 (52:50):
And so so so what I know of doulas, right, is is
they're there supportingliterally through the birth.
Through the birth.
So would you be virtual at thebirth, if possible?

SPEAKER_00 (53:03):
Can is that a thing?
At every birth, the plan is tobe virtual.
What my husband and I havetalked about how we are gonna
make it work, and it's honestlyreally exciting to me.
But again, if I think if ifeverything is um things have to
be aligned, things have to workout, and I need to be able to,

(53:25):
you know, leave my children,yeah to attend a birth.
Oh, sure.
Right.
But I'm not I I would love to dothat too.

SPEAKER_02 (53:33):
For sure, and I would love to do that, but yeah,
that's the that's the goal downthe line, like yeah, that's the
and you and it's probably noteven gonna happen.
I though I think the onlyroadblock you may even see is
recording, but I don't think youwould record those sessions,
like so boom, you're done.
Like, yeah, right.
Hospital won't let you recordinside the room.
Oh, yeah, that's the only thingI would even think is a

(53:56):
roadblock, but I wouldn't eventhink why would you need to
record a doula session with yoursurrogate?
That's just in the moment, yeah.
So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 (54:04):
Interesting.
So at that point, I think itwould just be, you know, labor
support, just sounding forexactly like if you're in there
in person, but you can't youcan't be hands-on, you know, you
can't you can't physically layhands on your your clients.

SPEAKER_02 (54:20):
It's one less person in the room, too, which
sometimes those rooms getcrowded.
So if she's got a screen whereyou're literally right here
talking to her, and it's justyou and her going through.

SPEAKER_01 (54:29):
I I don't know AirPods in or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (54:32):
Yeah, it's too virtual to switch back and
forth, you know, be with thesurrogate while she's if she
needs something to be said tothe IPs or they need an update,
hang up, talk to them, call herright back, you know.
Right person, you know, youmight have to run back and

(54:53):
forth, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (54:54):
Right, right.
This phone call.
No, I think this is great.

SPEAKER_02 (54:57):
I think the idea is fantastic and honestly.

SPEAKER_01 (55:02):
And everybody these days is virtual, like
everything, and and this caneasily be made virtual.
So I this is gonna be awesome.
Like true.
So are you just gonna workstrictly with surrogates?
No, I piece too.
No, I'm sorry.
I are so but like you'restrictly just like
surrogacy-based.
Like if I were to get pregnanttomorrow, I'm not I'm not
calling Kristen.

(55:23):
You could.

SPEAKER_00 (55:26):
I will forever see you as a surrogate.
Oh, thank you.
Like, I will forever see myself,you know, as a huge part of you
guys' lives.
It's a huge part.

SPEAKER_01 (55:36):
Yeah, but we're all surrogates.
Once a surrogate always is asurrogate.
Yep.
We're if we didn't have toretire, we wouldn't retire.
Let's put it that way.
I would still be doing it.
We know.

SPEAKER_00 (55:47):
Just saying, you brought it up.

SPEAKER_01 (55:49):
You gave the segue.
You would have been on like her12th surrogate, baby, right now.

SPEAKER_00 (55:52):
You would too, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (55:53):
Yeah, Jesus, Jesus.
Well, if people want to likefind you in your services and
everything, where do they go?
Social media, email, website.

SPEAKER_00 (56:02):
Yeah, so the website is still up and coming because
again, a profession, uh, put itat perfectionist.

SPEAKER_01 (56:08):
You're I will put this out there when it is up,
Kristen.
You let me know and I will addit to the show notes of this.

SPEAKER_00 (56:14):
Thank you.
Yes.
Uh, but you can also find me atuh Wellsurrow Community.
So it's W E L L S U R R Ocommunity.
Um, that's on Instagram.
You could also email me atKristen at wellsorrow.com.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (56:32):
Perfect.
And then they can just so um ifI'm a okay, I have another
question.
If I'm a surrogate and I'malready with an agency and my
maybe my contracts are signed,maybe my contracts aren't signed
yet.
I don't know.
I haven't that's not where I'mgoing with this.
My question is, are agencies theonly one reaching out to you, or
can intended parents andsurrogates reach out like at any
time and be like, hey, I wouldlike to acquire your services?

SPEAKER_00 (56:54):
Yeah.
Both.

unknown (56:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:57):
So the idea would be um I plan to reach reach out to
agencies, um, you know, pitchthem the procreate them to this
is what you know, this is whatI'm doing.
Here's how I could impact, youknow, your surrogates, your IPs,
and the little babies.
Because I think, you know, youknow, better outcomes with the

(57:17):
surrogate, like you're gonnahave better outcomes with the
baby.
Yeah.
And then not just likephysically, but like mentally
with everyone as well, becausewe all need to know what's
coming.
Yeah, we need to like payattention to what may be coming
up so that we can work throughit.

SPEAKER_01 (57:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:34):
And then, you know, we need to have proper closure.
Like, what it doesn't matter ifyou're gonna do another journey
with those people, it doesn'tmatter if you're gonna go with
someone else.
That journey in specific, y'allknow we we go through a lot
emotionally.
Like we were just kind of thecenter of these people's world.

SPEAKER_01 (57:52):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (57:52):
Now you're barely gonna hear from them.

SPEAKER_01 (57:54):
Correct.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (57:55):
Um, at least in the beginning.
That's a loss.

SPEAKER_01 (57:58):
You might get updates here and there, but and
it's easier to like think like,oh, I'm gonna be fine with that
until you actually go throughit.
Because I've talked to severalsurrogates, and it's like, okay,
that's great, you're fine withit, but can we just maybe maybe
my advice to you is just putsomething in your contract,
anything that you're comfortablewith for you to have closure.
And then guess what?
If you don't want to use it,don't use it.
But like you don't know howyou're gonna feel, you don't

(58:19):
know exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (58:20):
And so, yeah, reach out to agency.
I have to, that's what I do.
Like, I I run with something andI forget, like, okay, answer the
question.
Oh, yeah, I would be a partnerwith the agency.
Oh no, you're good, like aresource.
Yeah.
You know, if your clients want adoula, please reach out.
I'm your girl.
I take care of them from umcontract execution.

SPEAKER_01 (58:44):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (58:44):
Uh, because typically uh don't we already
have medical clearance?

SPEAKER_01 (58:48):
Like I'm trying to- Yeah, so it goes med clearance
and then you do contracts andthen you and then you do
medicine.

SPEAKER_00 (58:54):
For me, it was like both at the same time.
I remember I'm going to medicalclearance and talking to my
attorney about the contract.
Same time.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's so I couldn't remember whatgoes first.
But yeah, contract execution,you know, it'll be month by
month meetings, but I'm alsogoing to be available um at any

(59:16):
time, like during office hours.
Text me as much as you want to.
Let's talk about what you'regoing through.
Um, any questions you have.
Yeah.
Um, your girl, call me if youneed to.
Um, but yeah, but the themeetings are gonna be um there
will be I have my little so Iwas just like going over it
today.

(59:36):
So there will be pregnancysupport.
There's going to be a bit ofnutrition support.
So that's one of the uhcertifications that I'm
finishing up, um, perinatalnutrition.
And then there will be um like afocus on education too, so
surrogacy education, and so it'sgonna kind of align too with

(59:56):
where you are in the pregnancy,but I also kind of want The IPs
to feel more involved.
So, you know, it may be a funthing that they could do.
Like, I know it might be awkwardfor some people, but for others,
it'll be really fun.
Let's pretend you're pregnant.
Like, let's pretend you'reactually pregnant.
If you want to, you know, umkind of like eat similar to your

(01:00:19):
surrogate, or um it it's there'sa lot to it.
I have so many fun ideas that Ithink would be really wonderful
where the intended parents, likeI said, can be really involved
and be bonding, okay, and justfeel a part of it.
Because I know there are someIPs, I've heard plenty of
stories where they get the babyand they feel, you know, they

(01:00:43):
disconnected.
Yeah, disconnected.
They don't feel like this babyis necessarily theirs, and it
takes a really long time and alot of work for them to come
around.
And um, I think if they weremore involved during the
pregnancy and they were doing,you know, like mindfulness work,
maybe they're journaling, maybethey're um, I don't know, like

(01:01:03):
my IPs, they made this umSpotify playlist um a bunch of
songs on it that they wanted meto play for the baby when he was
able to hear.
And so I did that.
And then as soon as he was born,we put that on, you know, as
they're building him.
And then they played it, youknow, um, they played I don't
know when, but like all thetime, you know.

(01:01:24):
And so that was something heheard in the womb, and then he
heard with his parents, and sothat was like a comforting thing
for him.
I think there are there's somany things that that we could
all work on that similar tothat, that prepare the baby,
prepare the IPs, um, but like abig focus too, you know, for the

(01:01:44):
surrogates.
But it's mostly not just like,you know, pregnancy support,
nutrition, all of that.
Like you need to know what'scoming, you need to know what
might come up.
Um, let's talk about how wemight go like when when things
do come up, how are we gonnawork on that together?
How are you, you know, gonnawork on that with yourself?

(01:02:07):
And then, you know, just like asounding board, like a part of a
doula's job too, is to listen.
You know, how are you feeling?
What are you going through?
Um, here's here's some things.
Oh, you're feeling nauseous,Kennedy.
Well, let's here are some, youknow, recipes with ginger, here
are some teas.
Ask your mother.
Um, but you know, eat smallfrequent meal, like here's some

(01:02:30):
things that you can always, youknow, ask your doctor first.
Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:35):
But the monthly, are the monthly meetings with all
intent uh intended parents andthe surrogate or each of them
getting their own?
No.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:43):
So some of them will include the IPs if they want to
come, absolutely, but some ofthem are gonna be really
personal.
Like, okay, for me, I might notnecessarily want to be on a
phone call with my IPs and mydoula, and my doula's asking me,
How are you eating?
What is your nutrition like?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:59):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:00):
And then like, well, yeah, I would feel so odd.
I would be not comfortable atall.
So yeah, because you hadmentioned monthly, so I was
like, Well, who's getting them?
Okay, so it's mainly though, youknow, I'm eating balanced meals
for the most part.
Yeah, I did have a baconcheeseburger with fries, and um,

(01:03:20):
you know, I gave in to acraving, and the IP's like, oh,
you know, but um ideally, youknow, that's not really gonna
happen.
But it's just it's it's the theconcept, like they may not be
comfortable with certain things,so I would do two separate, you
know, okay sessions.
Yeah.

(01:03:41):
So I think um, like towards theend, you gotta there's gonna be
some birth prep.
You know, obviously we've donethis before, or you wouldn't be
a surrogate, so you know howit's gonna go for the most part.
But we will create your birthplan.
We're gonna talk about how doyou envision it, how do you want
it to go.
Um, and then with the IPs, youknow, a lot of times you have to

(01:04:01):
explain to them like thesurrogate, she's she gets to say
how she labors and gives birth,and you don't really have
unfortunately much of a say inthat.
Um hopefully, you know, you havea surrogate who's very
compassionate and who willlisten.
Um, but you just need to beprepared and you can't come into
it like thinking that you'regonna, you know, kind of control

(01:04:23):
the situation.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:24):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:25):
And so um, the best, the best bet would be, you know,
talk, be honest with yoursurrogate and or doula.
Um, talk about what you want,uh, but at the end of the day,
you know, figure out how you cansupport your your surrogate and
how she labors and gives birthbecause odds are it's gonna be
for beautiful for you knoweveryone.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:49):
And then if it if it doesn't, you know, go the way
that you had planned, at leastyou knew, okay, it may not be
perfect, you know, I may not getmy perfect birth, but I knew
that this could happen, I knewthat that could happen.
Um, you know, I made a decisionwith all of that, you know,
educated decisions, and I feelcomfortable even though, you

(01:05:11):
know, it didn't go as planned,but yeah, it's good stuff.
Yeah, it's all just knowing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:17):
It's it's what we say, even when you're looking
for an agency.
You have to do your research,you have to know information,
you have to know what you want.
Yeah, it's it's all the same.
It's knowledge, knowledge ispower.
It's gonna help everybody andeverything.
Yeah.
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:31):
I'm very excited for you, Kristen.
This is so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:34):
Thank you.
I cannot wait to get started.
I feel that I would do it rightnow if I could.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:41):
Oh, I know, I get that, but no, I it's good.
Get your ducks in a row, feelconfident in it, and then just
you know, to the wind.
Like, you got this.
I'm no doubt in my mind.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much fortalking with us and for reaching
out.
And like, this is so cool.
I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:01):
Yeah, maybe I said thank you guys for having me on
and letting me talk to nurse.
Like maybe in a year or two, wecould come on again and see how
it's going and like talk sixmonths, even whenever a year, no
way, girl.
Talk about how you know it it itactually is impacting people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:20):
I think yes, the positive, yeah, exactly.
So we're here, so you just youreach out whenever it's all
good.
Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:31):
Thank you.
Well, I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:33):
Good.
See, it wasn't that scary,right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:36):
No, you you were right.
Once we kind of like got intoit, it felt a lot better.
Well, we go have a good night.
Hey, you too.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:43):
Have a great night.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:44):
Like with the pregnancy, yay! Thank you.

unknown (01:06:46):
Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:47):
Bye.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:48):
Bye bye.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:49):
Wow, that's very interesting.
That's cool.
I like that.
I wish I had like a gotta bebusy.
That's a lot, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:58):
I mean, you're you're at least it's virtual
though.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:01):
Uh but still, you've got to do your parents and duel.
Like you're you're almost likethe I almost felt like it was,
which is great because asurrogate does need somebody to
stand up for her and to voiceher if she's not that
comfortable voicing herself oror making waves.
Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:17):
Well, and like we all help we all go through
hormones and stuff, and likesometimes somebody will say
something and we'll take itmaybe like a different way or
something like that, or even theintended parents, you know, like
the surrogate could have saidsomething and the intended
parents could be like, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
what?
And so, no, I think it's allbeneficial.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:32):
Yeah, they could have a buffer too.
So, yeah, and then to help withthe labor and the delivery part
of it and to let everybody knowwhat's happening and all the
expectations and what's gonnahappen win-win, I think, for
everybody.
So, more power to her.
Go, Kristen, go.
Okay, girl.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:44):
Okay, well, thank you so much, Kristen.
So, if anybody has any questionsor stories they would like to
share, please feel free to reachout to us on Instagram at stop
periodsit period surrogate, oryou can email us at stop
periodsitperiod surrogate atgmail.com.
And this has been anotherepisode of Stops at Surrogate
with Kennedy and Ellen.
Hi everyone, take care of it.
Hi before we wrap up, we want togive a huge thank you to our

(01:08:06):
sponsors, Northwest SurrogacyCenter, New York Surrogacy
Center, Paying It ForwardSurrogacy and Serene Surrogacy
Partners.
Their continued support helps usshare real stories, educate our
community, and connect familiesthrough the incredible journey
of surrogacy.
Thanks so much for tuning in toStops at Surrogate, where every

(01:08:29):
story matters and every journeyis worth sharing.
We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:33):
If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to give us a
like and subscribe.
Also, check out the link to ourYouTube channel in the
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And be sure to also check outour children's book, My Mom Has
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