December 28, 2025 • 54 mins
What if one case manager guided both the surrogate and the intended parents—from the first profile exchange to baby photos years later? We sit down with Nina Simmons, case manager and clinical support manager at Northwest Surrogacy Center, to explore how a unified model reduces miscommunication, deepens trust, and creates a steadier surrogacy journey. Nina pulls back the curtain on the real work behind the scenes: coordinating clinics and legal timelines, keeping everyone informed, and offering trauma-informed support when emotions run high.
We talk about the head-and-heart balance that keeps a match on track: the administrative structure that provides safety and the relational care that builds confidence. Nina shares practical ways to set expectations early, from communication preferences to boundary setting, and explains how transparent group conversations help resolve friction before it grows. She also addresses common challenges—loss of control for intended parents, boundary fatigue for surrogates—and shows how predictability and clear options restore a sense of agency. IVF is powerful but not absolute; offering choice, clarity, and steady presence helps everyone breathe through the unknowns.
You’ll also hear how the pandemic reshaped matching and support—Zoom meetings, online groups, and a renewed desire for in-person connection—and why ethical guardrails matter when choosing an agency. Nina’s guidance on vetting compensation packages, reading the fine print on lost wages and insurance, and understanding state-by-state legal pathways is essential listening for anyone considering surrogacy. If you’re searching for a model that honors both people and process, this conversation delivers practical insights and real hope.
If the conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a quick review to help others find honest, human-centered surrogacy stories.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome.
We are a mother-daughter podcastabout all things surrogacy.
Together, we have brought eightbeautiful babies into this
world, and we would like toshare through education and
knowledge about surrogacy withthose who want to educate
themselves on the topic.
This is Stop, Sit, Surrogate.
SPEAKER_03 (00:20):
Have you ever thought about growing your
family but aren't sure what youroptions are?
Or maybe you're someone whowants to help others experience
the joy of parenthood?
That's where Northwest SurrogacyCenter comes in.
Northwest Surrogacy Center is afull-service surrogacy agency
that guides intended parents andsurrogates through every step of
the journey with compassion,transparency, and personalized
(00:42):
care.
From matching to legal supportto emotional wellness, they make
what can feel an overwhelmingfeeling immediately human and
supported.
Whether you're consideringsurrogacy to grow your family,
or you're ready to become asurrogate yourself, the
Northwest Surrogacy Center isthere to walk beside you every
step of the way.
Visit the NorthwestSurrogacyCenter.com and at
(01:04):
NWSurrogacyCenter.com to learnmore and to take the first step
towards something trulylife-changing.
Northwest Surrogacy Center.
Love makes families.
Hi everybody.
Welcome back to StopsitSurrogate.
We are here today with a veryspecial guest.
I'm very excited to speak withher.
(01:26):
So would you like to introduceyourself?
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
Yes.
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
My name is Nina Simmons.
I am a case manager and clinicalsupport manager at Northwest
Surrogacy Center.
SPEAKER_03 (01:37):
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so what is that?
SPEAKER_04 (01:41):
Yes, sure.
So as a case manager, our roleis to walk alongside GCs and
IPs.
And I think I guess one thingthat I should preface before we
move forward with ourconversation is I will use
abbreviation.
So GC is gestational carrier.
You'll often hear me interchangethat with surrogate.
And then intend IPs is forintended parents.
(02:01):
So just to get that out of theway.
So case managers walk alongsideGCs and intended parents from
the time of a profile exchangethrough having a baby and
oftentimes beyond.
This includes things likenavigating, outside monitoring
appointments, travel,communication challenges,
insurance, emotional support,and just providing a wealth of
(02:26):
support through the surrogacyprocess.
unknown (02:28):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (02:28):
Okay.
So you're there from like get-goall the way through.
SPEAKER_04 (02:31):
Yeah.
Pretty much, yeah.
So from the time that intendedparents receive a profile,
that's when they're assigned acase manager.
Um oftentimes we're working withpeople for probably about 13
months, sometimes longer ifthings don't go as planned.
And so case managers reallydevelop like an in-depth
relationship with people.
And so that's when I say, like,and beyond, oftentimes we're
(02:53):
receiving photos and milestonepictures of baby for years.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
So fun.
SPEAKER_04 (02:58):
What a like a fun perk.
unknown (03:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:02):
I love it.
That's the best part.
I'm like, if you have a baby andyou're in Portland, please come
see me so I can give all thesnuggles that I can.
SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
Um, I love that.
Um, okay, so case so casemanager, are you do you do both
sides?
Did you say that?
Am I did I like miss that part?
Sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Yeah, no, that's okay.
Like, but so yeah, so casemanagers at Northwest Surrogacy
Center are this, you'll have thesame the surrogate will have the
same case managers as intendedparents.
Oh, and they know that that isdifferent than some other
agencies.
Very different.
Yes.
Yes.
And so the reason that we dothat is for a holistic picture.
Um, we believe that trust andcommunication is the foundation
(03:42):
of surrogacy.
And why not have the same personbe your case manager through the
whole process?
Because um, we're working as ateam.
SPEAKER_03 (03:51):
Well, and I can speak from experience, it's very
annoying when your case managerchanges about 20 times during
the journey.
SPEAKER_04 (03:58):
It's tough.
It can be so tough, and it canreally impact um how the spheres
of journey goes and how peoplefeel supported through the
process.
SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, I do have like a littleside question because I know a
lot of people are gonna bethinking this and being like,
why aren't you asking this?
Okay, so because it is a littledifferent, right?
To have one case manager forboth sides rather than one for
each individual side.
And the the explanation I wasalways told is like, oh, you
don't want any bias or casemanager likes, you know, one
(04:31):
person more than the other.
Is there is there anything thatlike pulls you into one
direction over the other, orlike you're just like very
neutral?
SPEAKER_04 (04:43):
No, I I um gosh, I know people ask that question,
and I know listeners areprobably wondering that
question, but I I don't in theseven years that I've been doing
this work, I don't feel pulledin one direction or another.
I truly, from the get-go, likeat profile exchange to moving
through forward with thematchmating, um, we're very
(05:04):
transparent about how thisprocess is gonna go.
And so it is so collaborativeand um um like there is not one
thing that an antenna parentknows that a surrogate doesn't
know, etc.
Like all the communication iswholesome and everyone's in the
communication together.
SPEAKER_03 (05:22):
Okay.
That's the and I think that's ahuge benefit.
Again, speaking from my ownexperience, just there's a lot
of things sometimes that areleft out.
And then, like, and it maybenot, maybe sometimes it's not
even on purpose.
It's just like, oh, we toldthem, you know, we told the IPs
this.
Oh, so sorry that we forgot toCCU on the email GC.
Like, you know, like, and itjust it's a lot of the times I
(05:43):
know it's not intentional, butso it is nice.
I do see the perk of having justlike one home base and being
like, hey, she has all theinformation.
So just go straight to her.
And she has a relationship withboth sides.
So if something go into anotherquestion, sorry, I do go out of
a little order.
I'm sorry.
Totally fine.
(06:04):
Normally it's my mom who goesout of order.
Um so oh gosh, I just had abrain fart.
Um, oh, so when a when a when asituation arises, if it does,
where there's like acomplication or a conflict, how
does that work?
Or do they come to you rightaway?
(06:25):
Like I would assume they feelcomfortable enough because it's
you the whole time.
SPEAKER_04 (06:29):
Yeah.
So um early on, like I said, wewe we start relationship
building.
And I think that creates safetyfor people.
Um case managers oftentimes aredoing regular check-ins.
Like we are not, I think one ofthe misconceptions about case
management is is that we're onlythere in the event of an
(06:50):
emergency or crisis.
And that's just not true.
Um, so we're so doing theseregular checks-in, check-ins
with intended parents andsurrogates, I think helps build
rapport and trust and so it ismore likely that people are
gonna come to us when there isan issue.
And being both sides casemanager, oftentimes I'm like,
(07:12):
let's talk about this as agroup.
What do both people need?
What do you need to move pastthis?
What do you need to feelsupported?
What do you need?
And and and that helpsstrengthen intended parents and
gestational carriersrelationships with one another.
That when that relationship getsreally strong, like the whole is
like you guys communicate andyou don't need me as much
(07:37):
because your relationship is sostrong and you and you trust
each other so much.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
Does that make sense?
No, that makes perfect sense.
And I think that that's I thinkthat's the beauty in this.
Absolutely.
Oh my gosh.
All right.
Gosh, I kind of wish I had anin-between.
It would be nice.
It's just, you know, to haveboth sides.
You're you have both storiesalready.
Nobody has to catch you up onanything.
(08:02):
You're not like, oh, let's seethe emails.
Is that really what was that?
Like you have already.
Probably, I'm gonna assume,maybe therefore makes less
complications and conflict.
SPEAKER_04 (08:17):
Potentially.
I wouldn't say that it Iwouldn't say that it necessarily
makes less complications orconflict, but what it does is
creates um a strong sense ofsupport.
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:30):
For when those things arise.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (08:32):
Yeah.
That makes perfect sense.
So now we'll just like kind ofwork back.
So what led you to joinNorthwest Surrogacy Center back
in 2019?
SPEAKER_04 (08:41):
Yeah.
So let's see, uh, previous toNorthwest Surrogacy Center, so
I'm a licensed clinical socialworker.
I um have a background inperenatal mental health and
complex grief.
And so um my work previous toNorthwest Surrogacy Center was
working with mothers who hadlost children due to a violent
occurrence.
(09:02):
And I it was tough work.
And in and in that work, I umkept hearing a pattern.
And oftentimes women would talkabout previous miscarriages that
they had or early pregnancy losswhen they were in therapy
talking about like losing therecent child that they had just
lost.
And so I said, gosh, there hasto be something um to like this
(09:25):
loss of pregnancy andmiscarriage.
And then I got into perinatalmental health, and oddly enough,
I was looking for um the happierside of things too, because in
that like deep grief work therethat I was doing, there was no
like happy ending.
SPEAKER_06 (09:42):
Oh god.
SPEAKER_04 (09:42):
To move forward, I found surrogacy, and there was
pregnancy loss still, there wasmiscarriage loss still, there
was pregnancy grief wrappedaround that.
But the it was met with hope anda baby in happiness.
And I was like, Oh, that's rightup my alley, that's what I'm
looking for.
So in 2019, not knowing muchabout surrogacy, I applied to
Northwest Surrogacy Center, andit has been a fun journey.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
Oh my gosh, I have to pause and say, bless your
heart.
That's a lot.
Like, I'm like over hereimmediately depressed because
how sad, like I can't, I can'timagine.
Like, oh my god, because you'reabsolutely right.
Like you said it in the bestway, right?
What you were doing before.
There was no, there was clearlyno hopeful outcome.
SPEAKER_04 (10:28):
Like, what do you know?
Yeah, I was like, what do you dowith that?
Like, that's just met withcomplex grief and no, there's
nothing I could do to fix that.
Um yeah, and so that's that'swhat led me.
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
Oh god, bless your heart.
I'm so happy you're on thehappier side of things now.
It's good.
Yeah, no, that's what a leap,but also not kind of like goes
in a little of the same path.
But that's so amazing.
Wow, you're such a good person.
SPEAKER_06 (10:55):
Thank you.
unknown (10:58):
Um, okay.
SPEAKER_04 (10:59):
So uh how would you describe your oh wait, we
already did that.
Don't oh, but you know what Ididn't explain though, Kennedy,
is like my other role as aclinical support manager.
So I don't know.
Oh my gosh, how fun! I was justgonna ask them.
SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
I was like, wait, do we want to go over that?
No, we've been awesome.
Okay.
Um, how would you describe yourrole as both a case manager and
clinical support manager?
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (11:21):
Um, so my role as a clinical support manager is to
provide a safe andnon-judgmental space to um GCs
to talk about the nuances andmaybe the complexities of
surrogacy.
And so my colleague Veronica,who I know you know very well,
um and has been featured on yourpodcast, created Beyond the
Surface, um, which is a supportgroup for the surrogate
(11:42):
community.
Um, it is inclusive tosurrogates who have maybe
graduated their surrogacyprocess and are no longer moving
forward with surrogacy, to umwomen who are thinking about
becoming a surrogate, to womenwho are like in the thick of it
and pregnant and cycling.
Um and in this group, we oftentalk about things like when
surrogacy doesn't go as youexpected.
(12:05):
Um, we talk about loss andgrief.
We talk a little bit aboutself-care and stress management.
Um, and the goal of these groupsis to create a safe space for
surrogates to share theirstories and to share what's hard
about surrogacy.
And what we saw and what wecontinue to see with these
groups is the community that'sbuilt within these groups of
women connecting with otherwomen who have been through it
(12:26):
and get it.
Um so that has just been um areally rewarding um part of the
process to be in.
SPEAKER_03 (12:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh my gosh.
Gosh, you're just doing all thethings.
Jeez.
Oh my goodness.
Um, okay, so for people who maynot understand nope, don't do
that one.
Oh, well, okay, maybe we'll askit.
Okay, so for people who may notunderstand what a case manager
does, how would you explain yourday-to-day work?
SPEAKER_04 (12:54):
But I think you kind of already said that, no?
Yeah, we can we can go throughit and you can have me to
answer.
Um with case management, I wouldsay that no two days are the
same, which is I I love thethat's probably part of why I
love this job, is it kind ofkeeps me on my toes.
Um, on any given day, we may behelping a surrogate navigate a
(13:15):
difficult conversation withintended parents or checking on
medical updates from blood workthat was just completed to
coordinating appointments toproviding emotional support.
Um, case managers are constantlyproblem solving, answering
questions, and just keepingeverybody on track.
Um but I think the core of ourwork is just really about being
(13:37):
consistent in a supportivepresence to everyone involved.
SPEAKER_03 (13:40):
Yeah, no, and I think clearly you do that very
well.
We hope that's the thing.
I've only heard good things.
Um, so how do you balance theadministrative side of the role
with the emotional andrelational support aspects?
SPEAKER_04 (14:00):
This I really think is a balance of head and heart.
unknown (14:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (14:05):
And what I mean when I say that is the administrative
side, I think, keeps the journeyon track, and the relational
side keeps people feelingsupportive and understood.
Um, balancing the administrativeside of my role with the
emotional and relational aspectsis really about me staying
grounded in the fact thatthey're both equally important
(14:25):
to have in like a successfulsurrogacy journey.
Um I think the administrativeside of things, like when I'm
thinking about timelines anddocumentations and
communications with the clinicsand making sure that everyone's
meeting requirements creates uhstructure and safety, but like
the emotional support is whatcreates the trust, the
connection, and the positiveexperience.
SPEAKER_06 (14:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (14:48):
And so um staying grounded in both of those things
and knowing that both of thosethings is a job as a case
manager, um, helps balance bothof those.
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
Yeah, and you you definitely need to they're
they're equally important.
SPEAKER_04 (15:01):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (15:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and so to balance them isis the key.
I know sometimes it's hard forsure, probably, but definitely,
definitely needed.
unknown (15:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:15):
Uh what are some of the most common challenges
intended parents and surrogatesface, and how does your team
support them?
SPEAKER_04 (15:25):
Um intended parents and surrogates, I think, face
different challenges.
Um, both groups are navigatingsomething deeply emotional.
Um, and so I guess each match wehave to come at it with a
different perspective and aunique perspective.
I think oftentimes for intendedparents, the challenge is the
loss of control.
(15:45):
Um they've often been throughinfertility loss or years of
treatment, or same-sex coupleshave grown up with the belief
system that they're never goingto have biological children of
their own.
And so now they're trustingsomebody with the most important
part of their life.
Um, and I think that not havingthat control, all of that
control, creates anxiety andfear about the unknown and just
(16:07):
a lot of questions.
And so we support them by givingclear communication, um,
preparing them for what toexpect, offering emotional
check-ins throughout theprocess, um, and just help them
build a healthy relationshipwith their surrogate.
Um for surrogates, I would saysurrogates are helping people,
(16:28):
right?
And so they're oftentimes ournurses, our our teachers, and
uh, you know, not all the time,but that is a that is a large
population of the surrogatesthat we work with.
And so helping them navigateboundaries and emotional
expectations, um, because theyare always wanting to connect,
they're always wanting to makesure that they're doing what's
right, they're always wanting tomake sure that their intended
(16:49):
parents are happy, and yetthey're busy women with children
and families of their own.
And so helping them um justcreate those healthy boundaries,
um, I feel like is whatsurrogates have challenges with.
SPEAKER_03 (17:04):
I agree with that.
Like I agree.
It's very hard to uh navigate,especially the first-time
surrogate.
It's very hard to navigatethings because you don't know
what you don't know, right?
SPEAKER_04 (17:16):
So there's so many appointments and um medication
calendars and so many thingsthat you're staying on top of,
along with your children, yourown children's sports and school
and um family life and you knowall the things.
SPEAKER_03 (17:30):
Yeah, it's uh it's not to overwhelm people, but it
it it can if you're not anorganized person or like you're
not like how do I how can Icompartmentalize it?
SPEAKER_04 (17:41):
It is very challenging, not impossible,
just definitely not impossible,and that's why we have case
managers to help people walkthrough the process, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (17:51):
Exactly.
I know just beautiful souls likeyourself.
Yeah, I love it.
Um, what misconceptions dopeople often have about the case
management process?
I have one.
I can tell you what I think.
I was gonna tell me.
Okay.
I think because like I know alittle bit more now, now that
(18:12):
I'm like been in this industryfor so long, but I really was
just like, why are you there?
Like, I don't need you.
My God, like right, like,because like as a first-time
surrogate, I'm like, what areyou doing?
You're not doing anything.
You're just you just text me,hello, how are you?
I hope you're well.
Like, you know, like I at firstI was just like, what are you
really doing?
But I believe now it is, oh,it's a lot.
(18:35):
You guys do a lot behind thescenes.
Like it's a lot of thepaperwork, the nitty-gritty, the
tedious things.
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but Iknow that that definitely is
part of it.
SPEAKER_04 (18:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, I'm so glad that you broughtthat up because I think many
people come into the processthinking the same exact thing.
Um and the the truth is thatpaperwork and like documentation
is a part of it, but it's notthe biggest part of it.
Um, I don't think that peoplerealize how much emotional
guidance that case managers arethere to provide and can provide
(19:09):
to help prevent conflict, um, tohelp relationship build.
Um, most people who have neverdone a surrogacy are like, hey,
what do I talk to my intendedparents about right now?
Or intended parents are like,hey, I'm not really sure how to
um talk to my surrogate about X,Y, or Z.
Um, a lot of people say that thematch meeting feels like a blind
(19:30):
date.
And so you go from like into ablind date to like moving
forward together, and you know,and there there can be this
sense of awkwardness.
And so um case managers are hereto like build that gap um and
provide support.
Um I think another misconceptionis that people only think that
we're here for the big issues.
(19:51):
I think I I talked about this alittle bit earlier, but like
medical emergencies or legalconcerns.
Um, but the day to day thingsmatter just as much.
SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
Um can you give an example of like what a
day-to-day thing would be?
SPEAKER_04 (20:06):
Yeah.
Um I think supporting likeintended parents through
anxiety, um, or making sure thateveryone feels informed or
connected.
So for example, like uh you youtalked about this earlier in
your own experience.
Um, the clinic will write theintended parents an email and
leave out the the surrogate.
SPEAKER_06 (20:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:27):
As a case manager, that is something that I'm
noticing and recognizing andbringing everyone together so
that everyone feels included.
Um I recently just had asurrogate who um had an
emergency situation where shehad to have surgery.
Um, I've called and checked inon her almost daily, you know,
and thinking about like what areher favorite snacks?
(20:48):
What are things that she reallyenjoys?
How can she, as an individual,feel most supportive?
It's not the same through andthrough.
And so as a case manager gettingto know everybody individually,
I get to know these like specialthings about people.
SPEAKER_03 (21:02):
Yeah.
Which is a really big that'slike a big ask of you.
And like, and not that anybody'snot that anybody's like asking
of you.
You're just case managers havereally big hearts.
And if you're a good casemanager, which clearly you are,
but if you're a good one, youknow, you definitely do put in
that extra effort of like, letme get to know you as a person
(21:24):
and like let me like show you Iam here for you.
I listen to you, I know I knowyou, like I'm here for you.
And I think that that sometimesgets lost, sadly, in some places
in this industry for sure.
But um no, I I I it's a hugepart to be hard.
SPEAKER_04 (21:47):
And we try from the get-go to to really be
human-centered, I would say.
From the time that that peoplecontact us and say, hey, we want
to be a surrogate with youragency, walk us through the
process, is um we try to begenuine about connecting with
people and learning about whothey are and learning about
their families.
And I can say that from like ourscreening team through our case
(22:07):
management team is that strongrelationships truly are built.
And um I would say as importantit is to me, I'm confident it's
important to everyone else, likeon our team.
SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
Oh, yeah.
I'm I mean, we've talked toseveral people from from
Northwest.
Yeah.
And it's funny, we actually havehad talked to several surrogates
from Northwest.
Oh yeah.
Like I don't even know by thetime they come on, and like when
they're on, they're like, Ohyeah, can I mention my agency?
I'm like, sure.
And it's funny how many I shouldjust like make like a little
like a little thing because it'sand I'm like, oh wow, this is
(22:40):
amazing, like it's great.
So definitely what you guys aredoing is definitely like working
for sure.
Um and yeah.
We'll be right back.
But first, I want to take aquick moment to talk about
something close to my heart,helping families grow through
surrogacy.
If you've ever thought aboutbecoming a surrogate or if
you're an intended parent readyto start your journey, Paying It
(23:03):
Forward Surrogacy is here toguide you every step of the way.
At Paying It Forward Surrogacy,you're not just a number, you're
supported, celebrated, andconnected with real people
who've walked this path before.
Whether you're just starting toexplore or ready to take the
next step, they'll make sure youfeel informed, empowered, and
cared for from day one.
Visit Paying It ForwardSurrogacy.com to learn more.
(23:25):
That's Payingit ForwardSurrogacy.com because every
journey to parenthood deservesheart, honesty, and the right
support.
Now let's get back to theepisode.
unknown (23:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Like some of these are already talking about You're
already making me feelcomfortable.
SPEAKER_04 (23:42):
Thanks.
I just for like a generalconversation.
Even if you don't have like younot having the questions
completely picked out, I'm like,oh yeah, no.
SPEAKER_03 (23:50):
Because you know what?
Like I said, it just kind ofgoes off, and then it's like,
well, we already lumped thosetogether.
So scroll down.
Uh let's see.
Oh, that's interesting.
Okay.
What here's an interestingquestion.
What trauma-informed approachesdo you find most effective in
your work?
(24:11):
Does that apply?
SPEAKER_04 (24:13):
Yeah.
That's a great question.
I think trauma-informed care isis huge in how I uh uh approach
anything, any conversation, anyany situation in my work.
Um, many intended parents andeven some surrogates have
experienced at least some formof medical trauma or infertility
trauma or just past loss of ofsome kind, right?
(24:36):
And so the most effectivestrategies I use to come back um
to like the core principles, Iguess you would say, of
trauma-informed care is safety,trust, and empowerment.
And so what does that look like?
Um slowing things down andgiving people choice where I
can.
And so trauma, like not to getinto the nitty-gritty of things,
(24:58):
but trauma often leaves peoplefeeling powerless.
And so offering options that canbe how do we communicate, how
fast you want to move through adecision, or what kind of
support you want gives people asense of control.
Um, another key approach that wework on as a case management
team, we talk about this all thetime, is predictability and
transparency.
Explain what's happening, whyit's happening, what are the
(25:21):
next steps are.
Um, when people know what toexpect, their nervous system can
settle down and they can come inlike more confidently and calmly
into a conversation.
Um the other thing is like whenpeople are angry about
something, oftentimes, likelet's say uh there's a delay of
some kind or um the outcomewasn't what they expected, and
(25:45):
people are upset.
I'm really listening for what isunderneath that anger.
Is it fear?
Is it grief?
Is it overwhelm?
Is there a need that hasn't beenmet?
And how can I meet that personwhere they are?
And all of that is atrauma-informed approach,
bringing back safety, trust, andempowerment.
SPEAKER_03 (26:03):
Okay.
No, it makes sense, yeah.
No, it makes sense.
That's no, that's amazing.
That's safety, trust, andempowerment, right?
That's what you said.
Safety, trust, and empowerment.
And I think that those aredefinitely things, especially
when people feel anxiety.
And I think trauma bringsanxiety, right?
Like it's definitely, it's allpart of your nervous system.
So yeah, when you have thesafety, you can calm a little.
(26:25):
When you can trust someone, youcan calm a little.
When you feel like you're incontrol a little, you can be
like, hey, I wish I felt thatevery day.
SPEAKER_04 (26:33):
And let's be honest, like the the the process of like
IVF in general has little roomfor control.
You know, there's a medicationcounter there, um, there's like,
where are you at on your cycle?
Where's your lining at?
Like we don't have control of alot of these things.
And so gaining options orgaining control when we can is
(26:54):
so helpful in the process.
SPEAKER_03 (26:57):
Yes, I completely agree.
Yeah, IVF is IVF is great, butit's definitely uh I always hate
I maybe I'll get a backlash forthis, but it it is a how I've
always looked at it as like agamble.
Like you can do everything thatyou possibly can, but like at
the same time, science isscience, it can only go so far.
And everything that you can docan only go so far.
(27:18):
And unfortunately, it's just notthe hundred percent that
everybody hopes and dreamsabout.
Yeah.
I think it's I think it's wellabove 60%, maybe.
SPEAKER_04 (27:30):
Yes, I mean, medicine has come a really long
way, especially when it comes toIVF.
Um, and and like we're thankfulfor that.
And at at the same time, I theway that I always explain this
to people is um while medicineis great and there is a lot of
control that we do have inmedicine, surrogacy and IVF also
(27:51):
includes a human part of theprocess.
And and that's the piece thatlike oftentimes we don't have
control of.
Um we just do the best that wecan.
And oftentimes that leads tosuccess.
And we love that.
But there are times when thatthat isn't the outcome that we'd
hoped for.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (28:08):
Exactly.
And and that's okay.
Yes, okay.
Yeah.
And to try again.
I like I really do like what yousaid in the beginning, is that
surrogacy has the ending ofhope.
Yeah, it's just like it's I loveI love that you said that.
(28:29):
I'm like, that that's very true.
And there's always hope insurrogacy.
SPEAKER_04 (28:33):
And I there's always hope in surrogacy.
I mean, I think this sounds socheesy, but I think about this
all the time.
Um, but when I think aboutsurrogacy, I often am thinking
about like there is profoundgrief.
Surrogacy is not the firstchoice that people have of being
a baby, right?
Like people didn't come here asoption one.
SPEAKER_03 (28:53):
Be that louder.
SPEAKER_04 (28:55):
Be it louder.
Um, and so so the so the griefat some point is a part of
surrogacy, but it collides withhope.
And it creates um it createssuch a beautiful process.
It's part of what keeps me inthis job.
I think it is so rewarding andso um, I I don't know.
(29:18):
Oftentimes it leaves mespeechless because I don't think
we have enough words for likeyou two strangers are meeting.
Someone who can't have a baby,and someone who's saying, Hey,
I'm here to help you.
And that's like incredible.
Um yes, like that just sorry,that goes back and I got fired
up.
It goes back to Oh, you're good.
Uh, there's always hope insurrogacy.
SPEAKER_03 (29:38):
Yes.
I new new tagline.
I love it.
How has Northwest surrogacycenter evolved since you joined
in 2019?
SPEAKER_04 (29:51):
Oh, this is a fun question because I measured this
by pre-pandemic andpost-pandemic because I've I've
gotten the the um the ability tobe with Northwest Surrogacy
Center before the pandemichappened during and after.
And I think that that has uhchanged so many things.
(30:12):
I I think and that's true foreverywhere and for everybody.
Um one of the things that Inoticed is like in early 2020s,
um there the online growthdemand has continued to
increase.
And so we've created like theseonline online support groups.
We've created um online webinarswith with special specialists
(30:34):
for intended parents or forsurrogates or meet a surrogate
online.
All the this online presence hasreally grown um versus where it
was when I first started withthe agency.
And then after the pandemic, wesaw this increase of like human
connection again and peoplewanting to meet in person.
And so we moved forward withlike meetups in person and um
(30:58):
support groups in person anddoing match meetings in person,
which doesn't match meetings inperson was the only way that we
did things prior to thepandemic.
SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
Really?
SPEAKER_04 (31:10):
Oh yeah.
People would fly, fly to like dothe we would fly surrogates and
antenna parents and the casemanager, and everyone would do
their match meeting in person.
So that's an example.
SPEAKER_03 (31:20):
That's so fun and old school, just like side note,
that's the only way my mom evermatched too was in person.
But my all three of my journeys,one of them was mid-COVID, but
the other two weren't.
They were but they wereinternational.
So that is the difference.
But I uh I was only ever onlinewith people.
SPEAKER_04 (31:38):
That is I'm happy that you said that, Kenny,
because caveat international hasalways typically has been
online, but for the most partnow, even if we have uh a survey
pretty close by, and intendedparents are close by, we're
often doing match meetings stillvia Zoom.
Like I thought you were gonnasay in person.
Still Zoom.
So that that was a change fromlike when I first started to
(31:59):
where we are now.
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (32:01):
You know, it just makes it easier and people are
more comfortable in their homes,kind of thing, maybe, right?
Like so, but I do think it'scool.
I do I do think it's cool tolike meet them in person.
SPEAKER_04 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean, old school times where we didn't
meet in person, it was reallyfunny because people who get
along so well had look out inthe parking lot and they would
still be out there chatting withlong after the match meeting.
SPEAKER_03 (32:22):
Yeah, just hanging out, yeah.
So funny when my mom matchedwith her triplet journey, they
like went out to lunch after.
Like the agency was just like,see you guys later, like
whatever.
And they like bestest of bestfriends to this day.
And I'm like, maybe I shouldhave met someone in person.
Maybe this is where I wentwrong.
It's fun.
We live and we learn.
(32:44):
Oh my gosh.
No, that that that is a hugechange.
And I think a lot of benefitscame with COVID.
I I hate to say it like that,but like you know what I mean.
Like in the sense of the waythat the industry kind of does
things now.
SPEAKER_04 (32:56):
Yeah, when I think about home visits, like home
visits get done much quicker andthrough the screening process
because social workers do, Idon't do home visits for
Northwest Sergio Center, but umso social workers outside the
organization are able to do itover Zoom and just it helps with
the screening process.
SPEAKER_03 (33:14):
Side note, Nina, I never had a home visit.
unknown (33:18):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (33:19):
I don't know why.
I never in all of your journeys?
Never.
Never.
They didn't ask me to walkaround my house, they didn't ask
for pictures, they didn't cometo the house, like nothing.
And my mom was like, that's notnormal.
I'm like, it's normal for me.
SPEAKER_04 (33:37):
Yeah, I mean, I guess if you don't know, you
don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (33:40):
Yeah, but I didn't realize that that was a thing
until this this last journey ofmine.
But I don't even know if I didit then.
I might have.
I don't remember now, but wow,but yeah.
Again, I um things change.
Yes.
Even within the past 10 years,things have changed.
unknown (33:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (33:58):
Um, I would say home, I mean, since I've been
with Northwest Target Center,home home visits are a standard
part of our screening process.
SPEAKER_03 (34:06):
Can we can I can I kind of like go off a little and
just ask?
Because I I know home visitsscare a lot of people,
especially first-time sargists.
So, like, what do I need to likespot clean my house?
Like, what are you like there'sno rats, I promise.
Like, you know, like you know,there's like a dirty pile of
laundry in the corner becauseyou know, my kid was sick last
week.
Like, you know, all thesethings.
And I do know the anxiety thatcomes wanting to like be like,
(34:31):
look at my house is immaculate.
Um, what is the purpose of ahome visit?
SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
Yes, I can rest assured it is not to make sure
that your house is the cleanesthouse on the block.
Um, so if you're if your houseis messy and lived in the
understood, what really we'relooking for is is your home a
safe place to carry a pregnancy?
Do you have hot running water?
Do you have heat?
Do you um oftentimes socialworkers want everybody who lives
(34:59):
in the home to be in the home tosee how everyone interacts with
one another?
Um, do you have guns?
And if you have guns, are theyspin a safe?
Are they locked up?
You know, um these are thingsthat a social worker is looking
for.
SPEAKER_03 (35:14):
Okay.
And it's normally a socialworker who does the home.
Yeah.
Okay.
That would make sense.
They know they know what to lookfor.
I never thought of the gun thingbecause I don't have any.
Interesting.
Good.
I'm glad that that's glad that'son the checklist.
Um let's see.
Oh, how do you train or mentornew staff or case managers?
(35:36):
Do you have and how many casemanagers are we?
Let me think.
Hold on.
Put you on the spot.
SPEAKER_04 (35:43):
I know.
There's seven of us.
I should know this.
Like, wow.
We're very close and at tame.
SPEAKER_03 (35:48):
How many cases do you take on?
SPEAKER_04 (35:51):
Typically, an average caseload right now, I
think, is like 35 to 40.
SPEAKER_03 (35:56):
Oh my gosh, 35 times like four, right?
SPEAKER_04 (35:59):
Yeah, you you're the first person that has like
acknowledged that or noticed it.
Yeah, I mean, because we're thecase manager for the surrogate,
for the intended parents,partners, you know, everyone
that that's involved in theprocess plus the clinics.
Um oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (36:15):
But I I was a case manager, I think, for like a
week.
And then I but I was still doinglike a full-time job, and they
were like, Oh yeah, maybe it'sfor you.
SPEAKER_01 (36:22):
And I was like, No, it's not for me.
Yeah, that would that would bethat would be tough.
SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Wow, that's that's a lot.
35 cases, that's that's 35pregnant women at I know they're
not all pregnant at the sametime.
I know there's different likeessentially you're still dealing
with 35 different hormonalemotions, flip IPs at times.
SPEAKER_04 (36:47):
Yes.
So so you have people goingthrough the contract process
where there's not a whole lot ofone-on-one that's happening,
about six to eight weeks, ittakes people to complete a
contract.
Okay.
Some people you may havecycling, some people just found
out they're pregnant, and thensome people are pregnant.
And oftentimes when when peopleare pregnant and everything is
healthy and going as it should,um, there's not a whole lot to
(37:10):
do in that in that moment untilsomebody has a baby.
So these different parts of theprocess help guide having that
many matches or caseloads.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (37:21):
Um, and then I think you had asked about like
training.
Um, yes.
Do you think wants to say likewe throw them into the fire and
to slurp?
No.
Um, so I think one of the you sothere's seven case managers on
our team.
I think the newest, the newestcase manager um was hired three
or four years ago.
(37:41):
So the retention on our team isreally strong.
Um it is is it is incredible.
I think we have some really goodworking relationships and also
friendships that just are arise.
Um, but the one when someone newdoes come on, the way that we
train them is they walk throughevery department in Northwest
Surrogacy Center.
So we have four departments.
(38:02):
We have the legal team, we havethe finance team, we have the
case management team, and wehave the surrogate screening
team.
Um, they will sit with people ateach of those teams just to get
a holistic approach of how wework as an agency and what our
process is.
Um they also will spend lots oftime shadowing um each case
manager.
(38:22):
I think we all have a differentwork style, different
personalities, different ways ofdoing the things that we do.
And so it's good just to see howpeople do their match meetings,
how people um do their check-insor their 30-week calls, things
like that.
And so they sit and they shadowfor months and months and months
before they are given their owntheir own caseload.
SPEAKER_03 (38:41):
Okay.
All right, well, that's fairthen.
SPEAKER_04 (38:43):
They're they're they're they're lukewarm water.
Lukewarm water.
You're not thrown into the fire.
Um we also haven't we alsohaven't had a new case manager
in some time.
SPEAKER_03 (38:54):
That's crazy.
That's amazing though.
Like truly, it's amazing becauseyou hear how fast others cycle
through.
SPEAKER_04 (39:02):
So yeah, I think that that um attests for like
the internal support that wereceive.
SPEAKER_03 (39:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (39:09):
Oh, for sure.
Like from management.
Um I I think that the care thatwe provide the people that we
work with, we also provide thepeople that are internal.
And I think it makes all thedifference.
SPEAKER_03 (39:20):
Yeah you got well, you gotta treat in surrogacy,
it's really a family.
Like everybody involved, it'slike a big family.
Everybody that you come incontact through the process, you
gotta all have the same heart,the same mindset, the same love.
Like it's so yeah, if you're ifyour home base is family, then
it's gonna feel it's gonna feelwarm.
(39:42):
It's gonna feel good.
SPEAKER_04 (39:43):
You're not gonna This work's not meant to do
alone.
That is for sure.
For sure.
SPEAKER_03 (39:50):
For sure.
Um what do you think familiesand surrogates need more
education and support around?
SPEAKER_04 (40:03):
Um I I don't know if I I have like I feel like I'm
like repeating myself here.
So if I if I feel redundant, I'msorry.
Um but I think surrogates andintended parents get plenty of
information around like themedical and logistic pieces of
surrogacy and often are lessprepared for the emotional and
(40:26):
relational side of theexperience.
Um and so when when I say that,like I'm meaning like how to
communicate, how to navigateconflict, how to cope with grief
or guilt, how to stay connectedwhen making incredibly different
difficult conversation ordifficult decisions, sorry.
Um and also like the joyousparts of the process, like um
(40:48):
how to celebrate together, or isit is it is it safe to let
intendant parents know that Ijust had a positive home
pregnancy test, or you know, soum there is such an emotional
relational piece of this processthat I wish people were just
more prepared for.
SPEAKER_03 (41:04):
I think that's very fair, and you know, each I can
definitely attest to this isthat each match or each journey
is definitely different incommunication style and like and
I do know I do think that it'svery important, and you guys
probably do this, that you talkabout it like pre-match or even
in match.
(41:25):
Is like this is how I like tocommunicate.
And I know that's like a reallyweird thing to like bring up
sometimes, like in a matchmeeting, but trust me, there's
weirder things to talk about.
SPEAKER_04 (41:35):
It is not it is not the most weird thing we're gonna
talk about.
I promise that.
SPEAKER_03 (41:41):
It's like this is how I text.
I like me myself, I am really,really bad at text messages.
But if you email me, I will I'mlike an old person.
Like if you email me, I willemail you.
But texting me, I'm gonna readit, forget that it's there, and
then like reply to you in liketwo weeks.
unknown (41:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (42:00):
Kennedy, so happy that you're saying this because
it is something we talk about.
Like, what are yourcommunication preferences?
Do you prefer to get on FaceTimeor do something like this?
Are you or you person likesphone calls, or you like never
call me, only text me, onlyemail me.
Um and then we talk a lot aboutlike in the the pre-match calls
and in the match meetings.
How do you envision or hope yourrelationship is going to be um
(42:22):
uh because setting thoseexpectations earlier just helps
the process in the beginning?
Um and when I think about likeuh you said something that um
you were talking aboutcommunication differences,
there's also like culturaldifferences that that people are
navigating through and workingthrough.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
Yep.
And it's really important to notsay that you have to like match,
maybe maybe you don't have tomatch with somebody that has
like the same communicationstyle, right?
But like to be very transp themore transparent you are up
front, being like I'm an emailperson, I'm a call person.
Okay, well, could we dosomething in between or do this
(43:02):
or do that?
Like it's everybody can be greatpeople and like you can it can
be your perfect match, andcommunication can always be
worked out, but like it'simportant that you know how to
like do it early on for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (43:13):
Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
Sure.
I've been in conundrums becauseof communication, so and I will
I will die on this hill.
SPEAKER_04 (43:22):
Communication is the foundation of surrogacy.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Yes, preach it preach it because it's so true.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:32):
The more you talk, the more detail you give in the
conversation, the better.
You don't have to talk everyday, but the more detail is
beneficial for everyone.
I agree.
Absolutely.
Um, what advice would you giveto someone considering becoming
a surrogate or starting asurrogacy journey?
Let's go there.
SPEAKER_04 (43:53):
Uh, I think that there's a lot of agencies out
there that have reallyattractive benefit compensation
packages.
I think I know where we'regoing.
And and so and I say this, I andI say this like truly.
I I would never persuade anyonefrom moving away from additional
compensation.
But I think it's important toread the small print.
(44:15):
And when I say read the smallprint, are there caps on lost
wages?
If a surrogate ends up on bedrest, I need to make sure we she
should make sure that she'sfully financially protected and
not subjected to use herown-based compensation to make
sure that she can continue tolive.
If you see a very highcompensation number that's
higher than other agencies thatyou've interviewed, ask why.
(44:37):
Right.
Ask what that entails.
Um, do you have to go through acatastrophic event to get all of
that compensation?
SPEAKER_03 (44:45):
Right.
Does that include multiples?
Are you not including insurancewith that?
Like what is are you is thatincluding that you're covering
my insurance?
So really I'm not getting that.
It's yeah, it's there's athere's a lot to look into for
sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, what keeps you passionateabout this work after all these
(45:06):
years?
SPEAKER_04 (45:08):
Um, I think what we talked about earlier, it is so
rewarding to just see twostrangers come together and
create beautiful relationships.
Um, oftentimes, not all thetime, but oftentimes, most of
the time.
Um, even long after thesurrogacy journey is done,
people still remain in contact.
Um surrogates will tell me thattheir nickname is um that's my
(45:31):
belly bud, or that's my auntie,or you know, there's always
these cute nicknames forsurrogates who remain in touch
with their intended parents andsyrupes.
Um and I just think that that'sreally beautiful.
Um like I said, it doesn'thappen all the time, but like
the surrogacy journey in generalis just a beautiful thing to sit
and witness and support peoplethrough.
SPEAKER_03 (45:52):
Yeah, I agree.
I envy your job.
SPEAKER_04 (45:56):
Um I envy your job getting to talk to people in the
industry all day long aboutthis.
SPEAKER_03 (46:02):
Well, thank you.
It is fun.
It is fun to like get my littlehour of like information and be
like, winner now.
SPEAKER_04 (46:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (46:10):
And I'm always the civilian.
I'm always just like, I'm gonnaask the stupid questions.
I'm so sorry, everyone, butlike, I don't understand what
that is.
SPEAKER_04 (46:16):
Like, but you have the unique experience of going
through surrogacy journeys.
Yeah, it yeah, this is true.
That's cool.
SPEAKER_03 (46:23):
Plus and plus and minuses, right?
Okay, well, Nina, how canlisteners stay connected with
you or learn more about the workwith Northwest Surrogacy Center?
SPEAKER_04 (46:36):
Stay connected on socials, follow us on that.
TikTok, on our Instagram, on ourwebsite.
Um, we oftentimes have eventsfor people who for potential
surrogates, for potentialintended parents, um, to meet
with people who have beenthrough the process.
Um, so come to these events.
I think it's a great place tostart.
(46:56):
Um and I believe our websitedoes have an events page.
SPEAKER_03 (47:00):
Okay.
And are you guys in um you guysare located in Portland, right?
SPEAKER_04 (47:04):
Yeah, we're located.
We have an office in Portlandand we have an office in Seattle
and an office in San Francisco.
SPEAKER_03 (47:09):
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
So are your events all just likeWest?
Well, obviously it'd be WestCoast, but like is it all just
like even those three?
SPEAKER_04 (47:18):
Question.
Yeah.
So we have events that that arein Oregon, Washington, and
California, but we also hostevents where all of our
surrogates are.
So that is in uh Colorado andNevada and um some on the East
Coast.
So we we are kind of a littlebit everywhere and we try to
make our presence in all theplaces that our surrogates live.
SPEAKER_03 (47:36):
Amazing.
Yeah.
Okay, well, um I have one morequestion.
So, what makes NorthwestSurrogacy Center different from
everyone else?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (47:50):
Um, I think what makes our team unique is a
combination of the expertise andthe care and our intentional
structure.
Um, I think I mentioned thisearlier, but we are founded by
attorneys 31 years ago.
And so risk management andcompliance are just built into
everything that we do.
Um, and this also goes back tothe question of what should
surrogates look for when they'refinding an ethically sound
(48:12):
agency.
Um we want to make sure thatthat clients can trust that the
process is safe and ethical andthoughtfully managed.
And so the ways that we do thatis we only work in 13 states.
A lot of surrogacy agencies thatare around work in a lot more
than 13 states because the truthis that surrogacy law is good in
(48:32):
more than um 13 states.
But the two things that is truein the states that we work in is
that there's a clear and legalpathway to establishing parental
rights and there's federalaccess to abortion care.
And um termination is rare insurrogacy.
That's like the absolute worstcase scenario, but we want to
make sure that our families umhave access to the services if
(48:53):
they're needed.
SPEAKER_06 (48:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (48:54):
The one other thing that I'll say that is becoming a
trend in surrogacy agencies thatare coming up is um we're a
family-owned business.
Uh, there's we do not have anyprivate um equity or venture
capital backing.
And we are seeing investors popup more in the surrogacy agency
space, I would say.
Um, and so what this means isthat um remaining privately
(49:19):
owned just allows us toprioritize family over profits
and make decisions based on whatfeels right and not what
investors expect.
SPEAKER_03 (49:27):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, I love that.
That makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_04 (49:32):
Yeah.
So yeah, when I think abouttrends in this in surrogacy and
the things that are happening umjust in the field in general,
those are other things that Iwould be looking out for.
SPEAKER_03 (49:44):
Yeah.
No, that's great advice becauseit's becoming sadly hard to find
um good agencies to trust onboth sides, and and just yeah,
it's a very interesting time inthe Sarucia world.
(50:05):
But they're out there.
They are, they are they're outthere, right?
I think the frustrating part isthat there's like you just said,
right, so many are just poppingup left and right, and it's like
okay, but like and and and it Idon't even know how to say this,
but there's so many that arepopping up left and right, and
(50:26):
it's just it becomesoverwhelming to be like, okay,
how do I break this down?
Because like we talked aboutearlier, right?
Oh, well, the compensation, lookwhat I get there.
But there are caveats in inthings.
There, what you know, what'swhat's the catch in a lot of
things?
And not everybody has a catch ina lot of things, some of them
are genuine for sure, butabsolutely it is you do have to
(50:48):
do your research on it, right?
You really have to ask thequestions, yeah.
You gotta call, you gotta talk.
You you gotta talk to someone,not automated machine, not an
email.
SPEAKER_04 (50:56):
Hopefully, no automated machines, hopefully no
email.
So it yeah, it's talking to alive person, talking to multiple
agencies, yeah, figuring outwhat's important to you,
figuring out why you arechoosing to be a surrogate, and
does that agency meet your samevalues and belief systems?
SPEAKER_03 (51:14):
You know, I want to ask one question real quick.
Um, promise is the last one, butI have been seeing this question
be asked a lot, and it is is itokay for me to interview several
agencies?
Yes.
Sorry.
No, I love it.
She said it like that.
She's like, yes, don't evenquestion it.
SPEAKER_04 (51:32):
Yeah.
If I was talking to my bestfriend or my sister or, you
know, someone who is pursuingsurrogacy, one of my advice
would be interview multipleagencies.
SPEAKER_03 (51:42):
Now, when you interview them, are you telling
them that you're interviewingseveral, or are you just like,
oh, you know what?
Like, I'm I'm just getting mybearings.
I'm just trying to understand abit, like of what's going on,
what you guys have to offer.
SPEAKER_04 (51:52):
Yeah, I think it's completely up to you.
Yes.
I think I think you can leave itup.
I think it's up to you.
I think that you can let someoneknow that you're interviewing
other agencies.
Um, I think that there should beno pushback in that.
I think it should be encouraged.
SPEAKER_03 (52:05):
I think so too.
And I think if you do getpushback, maybe we just hang up
the phone and we call someoneelse.
I'm asking why.
Yes.
We talk to someone else.
Oh my gosh, how funny.
Oh, well, this has been lovely.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to talk with me.
SPEAKER_04 (52:21):
Thank you, Kennedy.
It's been so good.
Uh, I appreciate you and allthat you're doing.
And it's been just nice spendingthe last hour with you.
SPEAKER_03 (52:28):
I know staying here.
Well, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_04 (52:31):
Thank you so much for all that you do.
And um, tell your mom I said hi.
Veronica says you guys are justtalk so suck so highly of you
two, which is part of why I waslike, Veronica, you're setting
the bar really high.
SPEAKER_03 (52:43):
That's very sweet.
Oh, well, tell her hello andthank you.
Yes, we um we love her.
She's very sweet.
We yeah, she's a great talk.
SPEAKER_04 (52:51):
Well, cheers.
Have a good rest of your night.
Thanks, you too.
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_03 (52:55):
Oh my gosh.
Well, that was amazing.
Thank you so much, Nina, um, andNorthwest Surrogacy Center.
This has been wonderful insightto so many things.
If anybody has any questions orstories that they would like to
share, please feel free to reachout to us on Instagram at
StopPeriodsit Period Surrogate,or you can email us at stop
periodsitperiod surrogate atgmail.com.
And this has been anotherepisode of Stopsit Surrogate.
(53:18):
See you next time.
Bye.
Before we wrap up, we want togive a huge thank you to our
sponsors, Northwest SurrogacyCenter, New York Surrogacy
Center, Paying It ForwardSurrogacy.
Their continued support helps usshare real stories to educate
our community and connectfamilies through the incredible
journey of surrogacy.
(53:38):
Thanks so much for tuning in toStopsit Surrogate, where every
story matters and every journeyis worth sharing.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome.
We are a mother-daughter podcastabout all things surrogacy.
Together, we have brought eightbeautiful babies into this
world, and we would like toshare through education and
knowledge about surrogacy withthose who want to educate
themselves on the topic.
This is Stop, Sit, Surrogate.
SPEAKER_03 (00:20):
Have you ever thought about growing your
family but aren't sure what youroptions are?
Or maybe you're someone whowants to help others experience
the joy of parenthood?
That's where Northwest SurrogacyCenter comes in.
Northwest Surrogacy Center is afull-service surrogacy agency
that guides intended parents andsurrogates through every step of
the journey with compassion,transparency, and personalized
(00:42):
care.
From matching to legal supportto emotional wellness, they make
what can feel an overwhelmingfeeling immediately human and
supported.
Whether you're consideringsurrogacy to grow your family,
or you're ready to become asurrogate yourself, the
Northwest Surrogacy Center isthere to walk beside you every
step of the way.
Visit the NorthwestSurrogacyCenter.com and at
(01:04):
NWSurrogacyCenter.com to learnmore and to take the first step
towards something trulylife-changing.
Northwest Surrogacy Center.
Love makes families.
Hi everybody.
Welcome back to StopsitSurrogate.
We are here today with a veryspecial guest.
I'm very excited to speak withher.
(01:26):
So would you like to introduceyourself?
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
Yes.
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
My name is Nina Simmons.
I am a case manager and clinicalsupport manager at Northwest
Surrogacy Center.
SPEAKER_03 (01:37):
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so what is that?
SPEAKER_04 (01:41):
Yes, sure.
So as a case manager, our roleis to walk alongside GCs and
IPs.
And I think I guess one thingthat I should preface before we
move forward with ourconversation is I will use
abbreviation.
So GC is gestational carrier.
You'll often hear me interchangethat with surrogate.
And then intend IPs is forintended parents.
(02:01):
So just to get that out of theway.
So case managers walk alongsideGCs and intended parents from
the time of a profile exchangethrough having a baby and
oftentimes beyond.
This includes things likenavigating, outside monitoring
appointments, travel,communication challenges,
insurance, emotional support,and just providing a wealth of
(02:26):
support through the surrogacyprocess.
unknown (02:28):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (02:28):
Okay.
So you're there from like get-goall the way through.
SPEAKER_04 (02:31):
Yeah.
Pretty much, yeah.
So from the time that intendedparents receive a profile,
that's when they're assigned acase manager.
Um oftentimes we're working withpeople for probably about 13
months, sometimes longer ifthings don't go as planned.
And so case managers reallydevelop like an in-depth
relationship with people.
And so that's when I say, like,and beyond, oftentimes we're
(02:53):
receiving photos and milestonepictures of baby for years.
SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
So fun.
SPEAKER_04 (02:58):
What a like a fun perk.
unknown (03:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:02):
I love it.
That's the best part.
I'm like, if you have a baby andyou're in Portland, please come
see me so I can give all thesnuggles that I can.
SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
Um, I love that.
Um, okay, so case so casemanager, are you do you do both
sides?
Did you say that?
Am I did I like miss that part?
Sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Yeah, no, that's okay.
Like, but so yeah, so casemanagers at Northwest Surrogacy
Center are this, you'll have thesame the surrogate will have the
same case managers as intendedparents.
Oh, and they know that that isdifferent than some other
agencies.
Very different.
Yes.
Yes.
And so the reason that we dothat is for a holistic picture.
Um, we believe that trust andcommunication is the foundation
(03:42):
of surrogacy.
And why not have the same personbe your case manager through the
whole process?
Because um, we're working as ateam.
SPEAKER_03 (03:51):
Well, and I can speak from experience, it's very
annoying when your case managerchanges about 20 times during
the journey.
SPEAKER_04 (03:58):
It's tough.
It can be so tough, and it canreally impact um how the spheres
of journey goes and how peoplefeel supported through the
process.
SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, I do have like a littleside question because I know a
lot of people are gonna bethinking this and being like,
why aren't you asking this?
Okay, so because it is a littledifferent, right?
To have one case manager forboth sides rather than one for
each individual side.
And the the explanation I wasalways told is like, oh, you
don't want any bias or casemanager likes, you know, one
(04:31):
person more than the other.
Is there is there anything thatlike pulls you into one
direction over the other, orlike you're just like very
neutral?
SPEAKER_04 (04:43):
No, I I um gosh, I know people ask that question,
and I know listeners areprobably wondering that
question, but I I don't in theseven years that I've been doing
this work, I don't feel pulledin one direction or another.
I truly, from the get-go, likeat profile exchange to moving
through forward with thematchmating, um, we're very
(05:04):
transparent about how thisprocess is gonna go.
And so it is so collaborativeand um um like there is not one
thing that an antenna parentknows that a surrogate doesn't
know, etc.
Like all the communication iswholesome and everyone's in the
communication together.
SPEAKER_03 (05:22):
Okay.
That's the and I think that's ahuge benefit.
Again, speaking from my ownexperience, just there's a lot
of things sometimes that areleft out.
And then, like, and it maybenot, maybe sometimes it's not
even on purpose.
It's just like, oh, we toldthem, you know, we told the IPs
this.
Oh, so sorry that we forgot toCCU on the email GC.
Like, you know, like, and itjust it's a lot of the times I
(05:43):
know it's not intentional, butso it is nice.
I do see the perk of having justlike one home base and being
like, hey, she has all theinformation.
So just go straight to her.
And she has a relationship withboth sides.
So if something go into anotherquestion, sorry, I do go out of
a little order.
I'm sorry.
Totally fine.
(06:04):
Normally it's my mom who goesout of order.
Um so oh gosh, I just had abrain fart.
Um, oh, so when a when a when asituation arises, if it does,
where there's like acomplication or a conflict, how
does that work?
Or do they come to you rightaway?
(06:25):
Like I would assume they feelcomfortable enough because it's
you the whole time.
SPEAKER_04 (06:29):
Yeah.
So um early on, like I said, wewe we start relationship
building.
And I think that creates safetyfor people.
Um case managers oftentimes aredoing regular check-ins.
Like we are not, I think one ofthe misconceptions about case
management is is that we're onlythere in the event of an
(06:50):
emergency or crisis.
And that's just not true.
Um, so we're so doing theseregular checks-in, check-ins
with intended parents andsurrogates, I think helps build
rapport and trust and so it ismore likely that people are
gonna come to us when there isan issue.
And being both sides casemanager, oftentimes I'm like,
(07:12):
let's talk about this as agroup.
What do both people need?
What do you need to move pastthis?
What do you need to feelsupported?
What do you need?
And and and that helpsstrengthen intended parents and
gestational carriersrelationships with one another.
That when that relationship getsreally strong, like the whole is
like you guys communicate andyou don't need me as much
(07:37):
because your relationship is sostrong and you and you trust
each other so much.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
Does that make sense?
No, that makes perfect sense.
And I think that that's I thinkthat's the beauty in this.
Absolutely.
Oh my gosh.
All right.
Gosh, I kind of wish I had anin-between.
It would be nice.
It's just, you know, to haveboth sides.
You're you have both storiesalready.
Nobody has to catch you up onanything.
(08:02):
You're not like, oh, let's seethe emails.
Is that really what was that?
Like you have already.
Probably, I'm gonna assume,maybe therefore makes less
complications and conflict.
SPEAKER_04 (08:17):
Potentially.
I wouldn't say that it Iwouldn't say that it necessarily
makes less complications orconflict, but what it does is
creates um a strong sense ofsupport.
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:30):
For when those things arise.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (08:32):
Yeah.
That makes perfect sense.
So now we'll just like kind ofwork back.
So what led you to joinNorthwest Surrogacy Center back
in 2019?
SPEAKER_04 (08:41):
Yeah.
So let's see, uh, previous toNorthwest Surrogacy Center, so
I'm a licensed clinical socialworker.
I um have a background inperenatal mental health and
complex grief.
And so um my work previous toNorthwest Surrogacy Center was
working with mothers who hadlost children due to a violent
occurrence.
(09:02):
And I it was tough work.
And in and in that work, I umkept hearing a pattern.
And oftentimes women would talkabout previous miscarriages that
they had or early pregnancy losswhen they were in therapy
talking about like losing therecent child that they had just
lost.
And so I said, gosh, there hasto be something um to like this
(09:25):
loss of pregnancy andmiscarriage.
And then I got into perinatalmental health, and oddly enough,
I was looking for um the happierside of things too, because in
that like deep grief work therethat I was doing, there was no
like happy ending.
SPEAKER_06 (09:42):
Oh god.
SPEAKER_04 (09:42):
To move forward, I found surrogacy, and there was
pregnancy loss still, there wasmiscarriage loss still, there
was pregnancy grief wrappedaround that.
But the it was met with hope anda baby in happiness.
And I was like, Oh, that's rightup my alley, that's what I'm
looking for.
So in 2019, not knowing muchabout surrogacy, I applied to
Northwest Surrogacy Center, andit has been a fun journey.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
Oh my gosh, I have to pause and say, bless your
heart.
That's a lot.
Like, I'm like over hereimmediately depressed because
how sad, like I can't, I can'timagine.
Like, oh my god, because you'reabsolutely right.
Like you said it in the bestway, right?
What you were doing before.
There was no, there was clearlyno hopeful outcome.
SPEAKER_04 (10:28):
Like, what do you know?
Yeah, I was like, what do you dowith that?
Like, that's just met withcomplex grief and no, there's
nothing I could do to fix that.
Um yeah, and so that's that'swhat led me.
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
Oh god, bless your heart.
I'm so happy you're on thehappier side of things now.
It's good.
Yeah, no, that's what a leap,but also not kind of like goes
in a little of the same path.
But that's so amazing.
Wow, you're such a good person.
SPEAKER_06 (10:55):
Thank you.
unknown (10:58):
Um, okay.
SPEAKER_04 (10:59):
So uh how would you describe your oh wait, we
already did that.
Don't oh, but you know what Ididn't explain though, Kennedy,
is like my other role as aclinical support manager.
So I don't know.
Oh my gosh, how fun! I was justgonna ask them.
SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
I was like, wait, do we want to go over that?
No, we've been awesome.
Okay.
Um, how would you describe yourrole as both a case manager and
clinical support manager?
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (11:21):
Um, so my role as a clinical support manager is to
provide a safe andnon-judgmental space to um GCs
to talk about the nuances andmaybe the complexities of
surrogacy.
And so my colleague Veronica,who I know you know very well,
um and has been featured on yourpodcast, created Beyond the
Surface, um, which is a supportgroup for the surrogate
(11:42):
community.
Um, it is inclusive tosurrogates who have maybe
graduated their surrogacyprocess and are no longer moving
forward with surrogacy, to umwomen who are thinking about
becoming a surrogate, to womenwho are like in the thick of it
and pregnant and cycling.
Um and in this group, we oftentalk about things like when
surrogacy doesn't go as youexpected.
(12:05):
Um, we talk about loss andgrief.
We talk a little bit aboutself-care and stress management.
Um, and the goal of these groupsis to create a safe space for
surrogates to share theirstories and to share what's hard
about surrogacy.
And what we saw and what wecontinue to see with these
groups is the community that'sbuilt within these groups of
women connecting with otherwomen who have been through it
(12:26):
and get it.
Um so that has just been um areally rewarding um part of the
process to be in.
SPEAKER_03 (12:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh my gosh.
Gosh, you're just doing all thethings.
Jeez.
Oh my goodness.
Um, okay, so for people who maynot understand nope, don't do
that one.
Oh, well, okay, maybe we'll askit.
Okay, so for people who may notunderstand what a case manager
does, how would you explain yourday-to-day work?
SPEAKER_04 (12:54):
But I think you kind of already said that, no?
Yeah, we can we can go throughit and you can have me to
answer.
Um with case management, I wouldsay that no two days are the
same, which is I I love thethat's probably part of why I
love this job, is it kind ofkeeps me on my toes.
Um, on any given day, we may behelping a surrogate navigate a
(13:15):
difficult conversation withintended parents or checking on
medical updates from blood workthat was just completed to
coordinating appointments toproviding emotional support.
Um, case managers are constantlyproblem solving, answering
questions, and just keepingeverybody on track.
Um but I think the core of ourwork is just really about being
(13:37):
consistent in a supportivepresence to everyone involved.
SPEAKER_03 (13:40):
Yeah, no, and I think clearly you do that very
well.
We hope that's the thing.
I've only heard good things.
Um, so how do you balance theadministrative side of the role
with the emotional andrelational support aspects?
SPEAKER_04 (14:00):
This I really think is a balance of head and heart.
unknown (14:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (14:05):
And what I mean when I say that is the administrative
side, I think, keeps the journeyon track, and the relational
side keeps people feelingsupportive and understood.
Um, balancing the administrativeside of my role with the
emotional and relational aspectsis really about me staying
grounded in the fact thatthey're both equally important
(14:25):
to have in like a successfulsurrogacy journey.
Um I think the administrativeside of things, like when I'm
thinking about timelines anddocumentations and
communications with the clinicsand making sure that everyone's
meeting requirements creates uhstructure and safety, but like
the emotional support is whatcreates the trust, the
connection, and the positiveexperience.
SPEAKER_06 (14:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (14:48):
And so um staying grounded in both of those things
and knowing that both of thosethings is a job as a case
manager, um, helps balance bothof those.
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
Yeah, and you you definitely need to they're
they're equally important.
SPEAKER_04 (15:01):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (15:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and so to balance them isis the key.
I know sometimes it's hard forsure, probably, but definitely,
definitely needed.
unknown (15:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:15):
Uh what are some of the most common challenges
intended parents and surrogatesface, and how does your team
support them?
SPEAKER_04 (15:25):
Um intended parents and surrogates, I think, face
different challenges.
Um, both groups are navigatingsomething deeply emotional.
Um, and so I guess each match wehave to come at it with a
different perspective and aunique perspective.
I think oftentimes for intendedparents, the challenge is the
loss of control.
(15:45):
Um they've often been throughinfertility loss or years of
treatment, or same-sex coupleshave grown up with the belief
system that they're never goingto have biological children of
their own.
And so now they're trustingsomebody with the most important
part of their life.
Um, and I think that not havingthat control, all of that
control, creates anxiety andfear about the unknown and just
(16:07):
a lot of questions.
And so we support them by givingclear communication, um,
preparing them for what toexpect, offering emotional
check-ins throughout theprocess, um, and just help them
build a healthy relationshipwith their surrogate.
Um for surrogates, I would saysurrogates are helping people,
(16:28):
right?
And so they're oftentimes ournurses, our our teachers, and
uh, you know, not all the time,but that is a that is a large
population of the surrogatesthat we work with.
And so helping them navigateboundaries and emotional
expectations, um, because theyare always wanting to connect,
they're always wanting to makesure that they're doing what's
right, they're always wanting tomake sure that their intended
(16:49):
parents are happy, and yetthey're busy women with children
and families of their own.
And so helping them um justcreate those healthy boundaries,
um, I feel like is whatsurrogates have challenges with.
SPEAKER_03 (17:04):
I agree with that.
Like I agree.
It's very hard to uh navigate,especially the first-time
surrogate.
It's very hard to navigatethings because you don't know
what you don't know, right?
SPEAKER_04 (17:16):
So there's so many appointments and um medication
calendars and so many thingsthat you're staying on top of,
along with your children, yourown children's sports and school
and um family life and you knowall the things.
SPEAKER_03 (17:30):
Yeah, it's uh it's not to overwhelm people, but it
it it can if you're not anorganized person or like you're
not like how do I how can Icompartmentalize it?
SPEAKER_04 (17:41):
It is very challenging, not impossible,
just definitely not impossible,and that's why we have case
managers to help people walkthrough the process, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (17:51):
Exactly.
I know just beautiful souls likeyourself.
Yeah, I love it.
Um, what misconceptions dopeople often have about the case
management process?
I have one.
I can tell you what I think.
I was gonna tell me.
Okay.
I think because like I know alittle bit more now, now that
(18:12):
I'm like been in this industryfor so long, but I really was
just like, why are you there?
Like, I don't need you.
My God, like right, like,because like as a first-time
surrogate, I'm like, what areyou doing?
You're not doing anything.
You're just you just text me,hello, how are you?
I hope you're well.
Like, you know, like I at firstI was just like, what are you
really doing?
But I believe now it is, oh,it's a lot.
(18:35):
You guys do a lot behind thescenes.
Like it's a lot of thepaperwork, the nitty-gritty, the
tedious things.
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but Iknow that that definitely is
part of it.
SPEAKER_04 (18:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, I'm so glad that you broughtthat up because I think many
people come into the processthinking the same exact thing.
Um and the the truth is thatpaperwork and like documentation
is a part of it, but it's notthe biggest part of it.
Um, I don't think that peoplerealize how much emotional
guidance that case managers arethere to provide and can provide
(19:09):
to help prevent conflict, um, tohelp relationship build.
Um, most people who have neverdone a surrogacy are like, hey,
what do I talk to my intendedparents about right now?
Or intended parents are like,hey, I'm not really sure how to
um talk to my surrogate about X,Y, or Z.
Um, a lot of people say that thematch meeting feels like a blind
(19:30):
date.
And so you go from like into ablind date to like moving
forward together, and you know,and there there can be this
sense of awkwardness.
And so um case managers are hereto like build that gap um and
provide support.
Um I think another misconceptionis that people only think that
we're here for the big issues.
(19:51):
I think I I talked about this alittle bit earlier, but like
medical emergencies or legalconcerns.
Um, but the day to day thingsmatter just as much.
SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
Um can you give an example of like what a
day-to-day thing would be?
SPEAKER_04 (20:06):
Yeah.
Um I think supporting likeintended parents through
anxiety, um, or making sure thateveryone feels informed or
connected.
So for example, like uh you youtalked about this earlier in
your own experience.
Um, the clinic will write theintended parents an email and
leave out the the surrogate.
SPEAKER_06 (20:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:27):
As a case manager, that is something that I'm
noticing and recognizing andbringing everyone together so
that everyone feels included.
Um I recently just had asurrogate who um had an
emergency situation where shehad to have surgery.
Um, I've called and checked inon her almost daily, you know,
and thinking about like what areher favorite snacks?
(20:48):
What are things that she reallyenjoys?
How can she, as an individual,feel most supportive?
It's not the same through andthrough.
And so as a case manager gettingto know everybody individually,
I get to know these like specialthings about people.
SPEAKER_03 (21:02):
Yeah.
Which is a really big that'slike a big ask of you.
And like, and not that anybody'snot that anybody's like asking
of you.
You're just case managers havereally big hearts.
And if you're a good casemanager, which clearly you are,
but if you're a good one, youknow, you definitely do put in
that extra effort of like, letme get to know you as a person
(21:24):
and like let me like show you Iam here for you.
I listen to you, I know I knowyou, like I'm here for you.
And I think that that sometimesgets lost, sadly, in some places
in this industry for sure.
But um no, I I I it's a hugepart to be hard.
SPEAKER_04 (21:47):
And we try from the get-go to to really be
human-centered, I would say.
From the time that that peoplecontact us and say, hey, we want
to be a surrogate with youragency, walk us through the
process, is um we try to begenuine about connecting with
people and learning about whothey are and learning about
their families.
And I can say that from like ourscreening team through our case
(22:07):
management team is that strongrelationships truly are built.
And um I would say as importantit is to me, I'm confident it's
important to everyone else, likeon our team.
SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
Oh, yeah.
I'm I mean, we've talked toseveral people from from
Northwest.
Yeah.
And it's funny, we actually havehad talked to several surrogates
from Northwest.
Oh yeah.
Like I don't even know by thetime they come on, and like when
they're on, they're like, Ohyeah, can I mention my agency?
I'm like, sure.
And it's funny how many I shouldjust like make like a little
like a little thing because it'sand I'm like, oh wow, this is
(22:40):
amazing, like it's great.
So definitely what you guys aredoing is definitely like working
for sure.
Um and yeah.
We'll be right back.
But first, I want to take aquick moment to talk about
something close to my heart,helping families grow through
surrogacy.
If you've ever thought aboutbecoming a surrogate or if
you're an intended parent readyto start your journey, Paying It
(23:03):
Forward Surrogacy is here toguide you every step of the way.
At Paying It Forward Surrogacy,you're not just a number, you're
supported, celebrated, andconnected with real people
who've walked this path before.
Whether you're just starting toexplore or ready to take the
next step, they'll make sure youfeel informed, empowered, and
cared for from day one.
Visit Paying It ForwardSurrogacy.com to learn more.
(23:25):
That's Payingit ForwardSurrogacy.com because every
journey to parenthood deservesheart, honesty, and the right
support.
Now let's get back to theepisode.
unknown (23:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Like some of these are already talking about You're
already making me feelcomfortable.
SPEAKER_04 (23:42):
Thanks.
I just for like a generalconversation.
Even if you don't have like younot having the questions
completely picked out, I'm like,oh yeah, no.
SPEAKER_03 (23:50):
Because you know what?
Like I said, it just kind ofgoes off, and then it's like,
well, we already lumped thosetogether.
So scroll down.
Uh let's see.
Oh, that's interesting.
Okay.
What here's an interestingquestion.
What trauma-informed approachesdo you find most effective in
your work?
(24:11):
Does that apply?
SPEAKER_04 (24:13):
Yeah.
That's a great question.
I think trauma-informed care isis huge in how I uh uh approach
anything, any conversation, anyany situation in my work.
Um, many intended parents andeven some surrogates have
experienced at least some formof medical trauma or infertility
trauma or just past loss of ofsome kind, right?
(24:36):
And so the most effectivestrategies I use to come back um
to like the core principles, Iguess you would say, of
trauma-informed care is safety,trust, and empowerment.
And so what does that look like?
Um slowing things down andgiving people choice where I
can.
And so trauma, like not to getinto the nitty-gritty of things,
(24:58):
but trauma often leaves peoplefeeling powerless.
And so offering options that canbe how do we communicate, how
fast you want to move through adecision, or what kind of
support you want gives people asense of control.
Um, another key approach that wework on as a case management
team, we talk about this all thetime, is predictability and
transparency.
Explain what's happening, whyit's happening, what are the
(25:21):
next steps are.
Um, when people know what toexpect, their nervous system can
settle down and they can come inlike more confidently and calmly
into a conversation.
Um the other thing is like whenpeople are angry about
something, oftentimes, likelet's say uh there's a delay of
some kind or um the outcomewasn't what they expected, and
(25:45):
people are upset.
I'm really listening for what isunderneath that anger.
Is it fear?
Is it grief?
Is it overwhelm?
Is there a need that hasn't beenmet?
And how can I meet that personwhere they are?
And all of that is atrauma-informed approach,
bringing back safety, trust, andempowerment.
SPEAKER_03 (26:03):
Okay.
No, it makes sense, yeah.
No, it makes sense.
That's no, that's amazing.
That's safety, trust, andempowerment, right?
That's what you said.
Safety, trust, and empowerment.
And I think that those aredefinitely things, especially
when people feel anxiety.
And I think trauma bringsanxiety, right?
Like it's definitely, it's allpart of your nervous system.
So yeah, when you have thesafety, you can calm a little.
(26:25):
When you can trust someone, youcan calm a little.
When you feel like you're incontrol a little, you can be
like, hey, I wish I felt thatevery day.
SPEAKER_04 (26:33):
And let's be honest, like the the the process of like
IVF in general has little roomfor control.
You know, there's a medicationcounter there, um, there's like,
where are you at on your cycle?
Where's your lining at?
Like we don't have control of alot of these things.
And so gaining options orgaining control when we can is
(26:54):
so helpful in the process.
SPEAKER_03 (26:57):
Yes, I completely agree.
Yeah, IVF is IVF is great, butit's definitely uh I always hate
I maybe I'll get a backlash forthis, but it it is a how I've
always looked at it as like agamble.
Like you can do everything thatyou possibly can, but like at
the same time, science isscience, it can only go so far.
And everything that you can docan only go so far.
(27:18):
And unfortunately, it's just notthe hundred percent that
everybody hopes and dreamsabout.
Yeah.
I think it's I think it's wellabove 60%, maybe.
SPEAKER_04 (27:30):
Yes, I mean, medicine has come a really long
way, especially when it comes toIVF.
Um, and and like we're thankfulfor that.
And at at the same time, I theway that I always explain this
to people is um while medicineis great and there is a lot of
control that we do have inmedicine, surrogacy and IVF also
(27:51):
includes a human part of theprocess.
And and that's the piece thatlike oftentimes we don't have
control of.
Um we just do the best that wecan.
And oftentimes that leads tosuccess.
And we love that.
But there are times when thatthat isn't the outcome that we'd
hoped for.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (28:08):
Exactly.
And and that's okay.
Yes, okay.
Yeah.
And to try again.
I like I really do like what yousaid in the beginning, is that
surrogacy has the ending ofhope.
Yeah, it's just like it's I loveI love that you said that.
(28:29):
I'm like, that that's very true.
And there's always hope insurrogacy.
SPEAKER_04 (28:33):
And I there's always hope in surrogacy.
I mean, I think this sounds socheesy, but I think about this
all the time.
Um, but when I think aboutsurrogacy, I often am thinking
about like there is profoundgrief.
Surrogacy is not the firstchoice that people have of being
a baby, right?
Like people didn't come here asoption one.
SPEAKER_03 (28:53):
Be that louder.
SPEAKER_04 (28:55):
Be it louder.
Um, and so so the so the griefat some point is a part of
surrogacy, but it collides withhope.
And it creates um it createssuch a beautiful process.
It's part of what keeps me inthis job.
I think it is so rewarding andso um, I I don't know.
(29:18):
Oftentimes it leaves mespeechless because I don't think
we have enough words for likeyou two strangers are meeting.
Someone who can't have a baby,and someone who's saying, Hey,
I'm here to help you.
And that's like incredible.
Um yes, like that just sorry,that goes back and I got fired
up.
It goes back to Oh, you're good.
Uh, there's always hope insurrogacy.
SPEAKER_03 (29:38):
Yes.
I new new tagline.
I love it.
How has Northwest surrogacycenter evolved since you joined
in 2019?
SPEAKER_04 (29:51):
Oh, this is a fun question because I measured this
by pre-pandemic andpost-pandemic because I've I've
gotten the the um the ability tobe with Northwest Surrogacy
Center before the pandemichappened during and after.
And I think that that has uhchanged so many things.
(30:12):
I I think and that's true foreverywhere and for everybody.
Um one of the things that Inoticed is like in early 2020s,
um there the online growthdemand has continued to
increase.
And so we've created like theseonline online support groups.
We've created um online webinarswith with special specialists
(30:34):
for intended parents or forsurrogates or meet a surrogate
online.
All the this online presence hasreally grown um versus where it
was when I first started withthe agency.
And then after the pandemic, wesaw this increase of like human
connection again and peoplewanting to meet in person.
And so we moved forward withlike meetups in person and um
(30:58):
support groups in person anddoing match meetings in person,
which doesn't match meetings inperson was the only way that we
did things prior to thepandemic.
SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
Really?
SPEAKER_04 (31:10):
Oh yeah.
People would fly, fly to like dothe we would fly surrogates and
antenna parents and the casemanager, and everyone would do
their match meeting in person.
So that's an example.
SPEAKER_03 (31:20):
That's so fun and old school, just like side note,
that's the only way my mom evermatched too was in person.
But my all three of my journeys,one of them was mid-COVID, but
the other two weren't.
They were but they wereinternational.
So that is the difference.
But I uh I was only ever onlinewith people.
SPEAKER_04 (31:38):
That is I'm happy that you said that, Kenny,
because caveat international hasalways typically has been
online, but for the most partnow, even if we have uh a survey
pretty close by, and intendedparents are close by, we're
often doing match meetings stillvia Zoom.
Like I thought you were gonnasay in person.
Still Zoom.
So that that was a change fromlike when I first started to
(31:59):
where we are now.
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (32:01):
You know, it just makes it easier and people are
more comfortable in their homes,kind of thing, maybe, right?
Like so, but I do think it'scool.
I do I do think it's cool tolike meet them in person.
SPEAKER_04 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean, old school times where we didn't
meet in person, it was reallyfunny because people who get
along so well had look out inthe parking lot and they would
still be out there chatting withlong after the match meeting.
SPEAKER_03 (32:22):
Yeah, just hanging out, yeah.
So funny when my mom matchedwith her triplet journey, they
like went out to lunch after.
Like the agency was just like,see you guys later, like
whatever.
And they like bestest of bestfriends to this day.
And I'm like, maybe I shouldhave met someone in person.
Maybe this is where I wentwrong.
It's fun.
We live and we learn.
(32:44):
Oh my gosh.
No, that that that is a hugechange.
And I think a lot of benefitscame with COVID.
I I hate to say it like that,but like you know what I mean.
Like in the sense of the waythat the industry kind of does
things now.
SPEAKER_04 (32:56):
Yeah, when I think about home visits, like home
visits get done much quicker andthrough the screening process
because social workers do, Idon't do home visits for
Northwest Sergio Center, but umso social workers outside the
organization are able to do itover Zoom and just it helps with
the screening process.
SPEAKER_03 (33:14):
Side note, Nina, I never had a home visit.
unknown (33:18):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (33:19):
I don't know why.
I never in all of your journeys?
Never.
Never.
They didn't ask me to walkaround my house, they didn't ask
for pictures, they didn't cometo the house, like nothing.
And my mom was like, that's notnormal.
I'm like, it's normal for me.
SPEAKER_04 (33:37):
Yeah, I mean, I guess if you don't know, you
don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (33:40):
Yeah, but I didn't realize that that was a thing
until this this last journey ofmine.
But I don't even know if I didit then.
I might have.
I don't remember now, but wow,but yeah.
Again, I um things change.
Yes.
Even within the past 10 years,things have changed.
unknown (33:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (33:58):
Um, I would say home, I mean, since I've been
with Northwest Target Center,home home visits are a standard
part of our screening process.
SPEAKER_03 (34:06):
Can we can I can I kind of like go off a little and
just ask?
Because I I know home visitsscare a lot of people,
especially first-time sargists.
So, like, what do I need to likespot clean my house?
Like, what are you like there'sno rats, I promise.
Like, you know, like you know,there's like a dirty pile of
laundry in the corner becauseyou know, my kid was sick last
week.
Like, you know, all thesethings.
And I do know the anxiety thatcomes wanting to like be like,
(34:31):
look at my house is immaculate.
Um, what is the purpose of ahome visit?
SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
Yes, I can rest assured it is not to make sure
that your house is the cleanesthouse on the block.
Um, so if you're if your houseis messy and lived in the
understood, what really we'relooking for is is your home a
safe place to carry a pregnancy?
Do you have hot running water?
Do you have heat?
Do you um oftentimes socialworkers want everybody who lives
(34:59):
in the home to be in the home tosee how everyone interacts with
one another?
Um, do you have guns?
And if you have guns, are theyspin a safe?
Are they locked up?
You know, um these are thingsthat a social worker is looking
for.
SPEAKER_03 (35:14):
Okay.
And it's normally a socialworker who does the home.
Yeah.
Okay.
That would make sense.
They know they know what to lookfor.
I never thought of the gun thingbecause I don't have any.
Interesting.
Good.
I'm glad that that's glad that'son the checklist.
Um let's see.
Oh, how do you train or mentornew staff or case managers?
(35:36):
Do you have and how many casemanagers are we?
Let me think.
Hold on.
Put you on the spot.
SPEAKER_04 (35:43):
I know.
There's seven of us.
I should know this.
Like, wow.
We're very close and at tame.
SPEAKER_03 (35:48):
How many cases do you take on?
SPEAKER_04 (35:51):
Typically, an average caseload right now, I
think, is like 35 to 40.
SPEAKER_03 (35:56):
Oh my gosh, 35 times like four, right?
SPEAKER_04 (35:59):
Yeah, you you're the first person that has like
acknowledged that or noticed it.
Yeah, I mean, because we're thecase manager for the surrogate,
for the intended parents,partners, you know, everyone
that that's involved in theprocess plus the clinics.
Um oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (36:15):
But I I was a case manager, I think, for like a
week.
And then I but I was still doinglike a full-time job, and they
were like, Oh yeah, maybe it'sfor you.
SPEAKER_01 (36:22):
And I was like, No, it's not for me.
Yeah, that would that would bethat would be tough.
SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Wow, that's that's a lot.
35 cases, that's that's 35pregnant women at I know they're
not all pregnant at the sametime.
I know there's different likeessentially you're still dealing
with 35 different hormonalemotions, flip IPs at times.
SPEAKER_04 (36:47):
Yes.
So so you have people goingthrough the contract process
where there's not a whole lot ofone-on-one that's happening,
about six to eight weeks, ittakes people to complete a
contract.
Okay.
Some people you may havecycling, some people just found
out they're pregnant, and thensome people are pregnant.
And oftentimes when when peopleare pregnant and everything is
healthy and going as it should,um, there's not a whole lot to
(37:10):
do in that in that moment untilsomebody has a baby.
So these different parts of theprocess help guide having that
many matches or caseloads.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (37:21):
Um, and then I think you had asked about like
training.
Um, yes.
Do you think wants to say likewe throw them into the fire and
to slurp?
No.
Um, so I think one of the you sothere's seven case managers on
our team.
I think the newest, the newestcase manager um was hired three
or four years ago.
(37:41):
So the retention on our team isreally strong.
Um it is is it is incredible.
I think we have some really goodworking relationships and also
friendships that just are arise.
Um, but the one when someone newdoes come on, the way that we
train them is they walk throughevery department in Northwest
Surrogacy Center.
So we have four departments.
(38:02):
We have the legal team, we havethe finance team, we have the
case management team, and wehave the surrogate screening
team.
Um, they will sit with people ateach of those teams just to get
a holistic approach of how wework as an agency and what our
process is.
Um they also will spend lots oftime shadowing um each case
manager.
(38:22):
I think we all have a differentwork style, different
personalities, different ways ofdoing the things that we do.
And so it's good just to see howpeople do their match meetings,
how people um do their check-insor their 30-week calls, things
like that.
And so they sit and they shadowfor months and months and months
before they are given their owntheir own caseload.
SPEAKER_03 (38:41):
Okay.
All right, well, that's fairthen.
SPEAKER_04 (38:43):
They're they're they're they're lukewarm water.
Lukewarm water.
You're not thrown into the fire.
Um we also haven't we alsohaven't had a new case manager
in some time.
SPEAKER_03 (38:54):
That's crazy.
That's amazing though.
Like truly, it's amazing becauseyou hear how fast others cycle
through.
SPEAKER_04 (39:02):
So yeah, I think that that um attests for like
the internal support that wereceive.
SPEAKER_03 (39:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (39:09):
Oh, for sure.
Like from management.
Um I I think that the care thatwe provide the people that we
work with, we also provide thepeople that are internal.
And I think it makes all thedifference.
SPEAKER_03 (39:20):
Yeah you got well, you gotta treat in surrogacy,
it's really a family.
Like everybody involved, it'slike a big family.
Everybody that you come incontact through the process, you
gotta all have the same heart,the same mindset, the same love.
Like it's so yeah, if you're ifyour home base is family, then
it's gonna feel it's gonna feelwarm.
(39:42):
It's gonna feel good.
SPEAKER_04 (39:43):
You're not gonna This work's not meant to do
alone.
That is for sure.
For sure.
SPEAKER_03 (39:50):
For sure.
Um what do you think familiesand surrogates need more
education and support around?
SPEAKER_04 (40:03):
Um I I don't know if I I have like I feel like I'm
like repeating myself here.
So if I if I feel redundant, I'msorry.
Um but I think surrogates andintended parents get plenty of
information around like themedical and logistic pieces of
surrogacy and often are lessprepared for the emotional and
(40:26):
relational side of theexperience.
Um and so when when I say that,like I'm meaning like how to
communicate, how to navigateconflict, how to cope with grief
or guilt, how to stay connectedwhen making incredibly different
difficult conversation ordifficult decisions, sorry.
Um and also like the joyousparts of the process, like um
(40:48):
how to celebrate together, or isit is it is it safe to let
intendant parents know that Ijust had a positive home
pregnancy test, or you know, soum there is such an emotional
relational piece of this processthat I wish people were just
more prepared for.
SPEAKER_03 (41:04):
I think that's very fair, and you know, each I can
definitely attest to this isthat each match or each journey
is definitely different incommunication style and like and
I do know I do think that it'svery important, and you guys
probably do this, that you talkabout it like pre-match or even
in match.
(41:25):
Is like this is how I like tocommunicate.
And I know that's like a reallyweird thing to like bring up
sometimes, like in a matchmeeting, but trust me, there's
weirder things to talk about.
SPEAKER_04 (41:35):
It is not it is not the most weird thing we're gonna
talk about.
I promise that.
SPEAKER_03 (41:41):
It's like this is how I text.
I like me myself, I am really,really bad at text messages.
But if you email me, I will I'mlike an old person.
Like if you email me, I willemail you.
But texting me, I'm gonna readit, forget that it's there, and
then like reply to you in liketwo weeks.
unknown (41:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (42:00):
Kennedy, so happy that you're saying this because
it is something we talk about.
Like, what are yourcommunication preferences?
Do you prefer to get on FaceTimeor do something like this?
Are you or you person likesphone calls, or you like never
call me, only text me, onlyemail me.
Um and then we talk a lot aboutlike in the the pre-match calls
and in the match meetings.
How do you envision or hope yourrelationship is going to be um
(42:22):
uh because setting thoseexpectations earlier just helps
the process in the beginning?
Um and when I think about likeuh you said something that um
you were talking aboutcommunication differences,
there's also like culturaldifferences that that people are
navigating through and workingthrough.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
Yep.
And it's really important to notsay that you have to like match,
maybe maybe you don't have tomatch with somebody that has
like the same communicationstyle, right?
But like to be very transp themore transparent you are up
front, being like I'm an emailperson, I'm a call person.
Okay, well, could we dosomething in between or do this
(43:02):
or do that?
Like it's everybody can be greatpeople and like you can it can
be your perfect match, andcommunication can always be
worked out, but like it'simportant that you know how to
like do it early on for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (43:13):
Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
Sure.
I've been in conundrums becauseof communication, so and I will
I will die on this hill.
SPEAKER_04 (43:22):
Communication is the foundation of surrogacy.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Yes, preach it preach it because it's so true.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:32):
The more you talk, the more detail you give in the
conversation, the better.
You don't have to talk everyday, but the more detail is
beneficial for everyone.
I agree.
Absolutely.
Um, what advice would you giveto someone considering becoming
a surrogate or starting asurrogacy journey?
Let's go there.
SPEAKER_04 (43:53):
Uh, I think that there's a lot of agencies out
there that have reallyattractive benefit compensation
packages.
I think I know where we'regoing.
And and so and I say this, I andI say this like truly.
I I would never persuade anyonefrom moving away from additional
compensation.
But I think it's important toread the small print.
(44:15):
And when I say read the smallprint, are there caps on lost
wages?
If a surrogate ends up on bedrest, I need to make sure we she
should make sure that she'sfully financially protected and
not subjected to use herown-based compensation to make
sure that she can continue tolive.
If you see a very highcompensation number that's
higher than other agencies thatyou've interviewed, ask why.
(44:37):
Right.
Ask what that entails.
Um, do you have to go through acatastrophic event to get all of
that compensation?
SPEAKER_03 (44:45):
Right.
Does that include multiples?
Are you not including insurancewith that?
Like what is are you is thatincluding that you're covering
my insurance?
So really I'm not getting that.
It's yeah, it's there's athere's a lot to look into for
sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, what keeps you passionateabout this work after all these
(45:06):
years?
SPEAKER_04 (45:08):
Um, I think what we talked about earlier, it is so
rewarding to just see twostrangers come together and
create beautiful relationships.
Um, oftentimes, not all thetime, but oftentimes, most of
the time.
Um, even long after thesurrogacy journey is done,
people still remain in contact.
Um surrogates will tell me thattheir nickname is um that's my
(45:31):
belly bud, or that's my auntie,or you know, there's always
these cute nicknames forsurrogates who remain in touch
with their intended parents andsyrupes.
Um and I just think that that'sreally beautiful.
Um like I said, it doesn'thappen all the time, but like
the surrogacy journey in generalis just a beautiful thing to sit
and witness and support peoplethrough.
SPEAKER_03 (45:52):
Yeah, I agree.
I envy your job.
SPEAKER_04 (45:56):
Um I envy your job getting to talk to people in the
industry all day long aboutthis.
SPEAKER_03 (46:02):
Well, thank you.
It is fun.
It is fun to like get my littlehour of like information and be
like, winner now.
SPEAKER_04 (46:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (46:10):
And I'm always the civilian.
I'm always just like, I'm gonnaask the stupid questions.
I'm so sorry, everyone, butlike, I don't understand what
that is.
SPEAKER_04 (46:16):
Like, but you have the unique experience of going
through surrogacy journeys.
Yeah, it yeah, this is true.
That's cool.
SPEAKER_03 (46:23):
Plus and plus and minuses, right?
Okay, well, Nina, how canlisteners stay connected with
you or learn more about the workwith Northwest Surrogacy Center?
SPEAKER_04 (46:36):
Stay connected on socials, follow us on that.
TikTok, on our Instagram, on ourwebsite.
Um, we oftentimes have eventsfor people who for potential
surrogates, for potentialintended parents, um, to meet
with people who have beenthrough the process.
Um, so come to these events.
I think it's a great place tostart.
(46:56):
Um and I believe our websitedoes have an events page.
SPEAKER_03 (47:00):
Okay.
And are you guys in um you guysare located in Portland, right?
SPEAKER_04 (47:04):
Yeah, we're located.
We have an office in Portlandand we have an office in Seattle
and an office in San Francisco.
SPEAKER_03 (47:09):
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
So are your events all just likeWest?
Well, obviously it'd be WestCoast, but like is it all just
like even those three?
SPEAKER_04 (47:18):
Question.
Yeah.
So we have events that that arein Oregon, Washington, and
California, but we also hostevents where all of our
surrogates are.
So that is in uh Colorado andNevada and um some on the East
Coast.
So we we are kind of a littlebit everywhere and we try to
make our presence in all theplaces that our surrogates live.
SPEAKER_03 (47:36):
Amazing.
Yeah.
Okay, well, um I have one morequestion.
So, what makes NorthwestSurrogacy Center different from
everyone else?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (47:50):
Um, I think what makes our team unique is a
combination of the expertise andthe care and our intentional
structure.
Um, I think I mentioned thisearlier, but we are founded by
attorneys 31 years ago.
And so risk management andcompliance are just built into
everything that we do.
Um, and this also goes back tothe question of what should
surrogates look for when they'refinding an ethically sound
(48:12):
agency.
Um we want to make sure thatthat clients can trust that the
process is safe and ethical andthoughtfully managed.
And so the ways that we do thatis we only work in 13 states.
A lot of surrogacy agencies thatare around work in a lot more
than 13 states because the truthis that surrogacy law is good in
(48:32):
more than um 13 states.
But the two things that is truein the states that we work in is
that there's a clear and legalpathway to establishing parental
rights and there's federalaccess to abortion care.
And um termination is rare insurrogacy.
That's like the absolute worstcase scenario, but we want to
make sure that our families umhave access to the services if
(48:53):
they're needed.
SPEAKER_06 (48:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (48:54):
The one other thing that I'll say that is becoming a
trend in surrogacy agencies thatare coming up is um we're a
family-owned business.
Uh, there's we do not have anyprivate um equity or venture
capital backing.
And we are seeing investors popup more in the surrogacy agency
space, I would say.
Um, and so what this means isthat um remaining privately
(49:19):
owned just allows us toprioritize family over profits
and make decisions based on whatfeels right and not what
investors expect.
SPEAKER_03 (49:27):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, I love that.
That makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_04 (49:32):
Yeah.
So yeah, when I think abouttrends in this in surrogacy and
the things that are happening umjust in the field in general,
those are other things that Iwould be looking out for.
SPEAKER_03 (49:44):
Yeah.
No, that's great advice becauseit's becoming sadly hard to find
um good agencies to trust onboth sides, and and just yeah,
it's a very interesting time inthe Sarucia world.
(50:05):
But they're out there.
They are, they are they're outthere, right?
I think the frustrating part isthat there's like you just said,
right, so many are just poppingup left and right, and it's like
okay, but like and and and it Idon't even know how to say this,
but there's so many that arepopping up left and right, and
(50:26):
it's just it becomesoverwhelming to be like, okay,
how do I break this down?
Because like we talked aboutearlier, right?
Oh, well, the compensation, lookwhat I get there.
But there are caveats in inthings.
There, what you know, what'swhat's the catch in a lot of
things?
And not everybody has a catch ina lot of things, some of them
are genuine for sure, butabsolutely it is you do have to
(50:48):
do your research on it, right?
You really have to ask thequestions, yeah.
You gotta call, you gotta talk.
You you gotta talk to someone,not automated machine, not an
email.
SPEAKER_04 (50:56):
Hopefully, no automated machines, hopefully no
email.
So it yeah, it's talking to alive person, talking to multiple
agencies, yeah, figuring outwhat's important to you,
figuring out why you arechoosing to be a surrogate, and
does that agency meet your samevalues and belief systems?
SPEAKER_03 (51:14):
You know, I want to ask one question real quick.
Um, promise is the last one, butI have been seeing this question
be asked a lot, and it is is itokay for me to interview several
agencies?
Yes.
Sorry.
No, I love it.
She said it like that.
She's like, yes, don't evenquestion it.
SPEAKER_04 (51:32):
Yeah.
If I was talking to my bestfriend or my sister or, you
know, someone who is pursuingsurrogacy, one of my advice
would be interview multipleagencies.
SPEAKER_03 (51:42):
Now, when you interview them, are you telling
them that you're interviewingseveral, or are you just like,
oh, you know what?
Like, I'm I'm just getting mybearings.
I'm just trying to understand abit, like of what's going on,
what you guys have to offer.
SPEAKER_04 (51:52):
Yeah, I think it's completely up to you.
Yes.
I think I think you can leave itup.
I think it's up to you.
I think that you can let someoneknow that you're interviewing
other agencies.
Um, I think that there should beno pushback in that.
I think it should be encouraged.
SPEAKER_03 (52:05):
I think so too.
And I think if you do getpushback, maybe we just hang up
the phone and we call someoneelse.
I'm asking why.
Yes.
We talk to someone else.
Oh my gosh, how funny.
Oh, well, this has been lovely.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to talk with me.
SPEAKER_04 (52:21):
Thank you, Kennedy.
It's been so good.
Uh, I appreciate you and allthat you're doing.
And it's been just nice spendingthe last hour with you.
SPEAKER_03 (52:28):
I know staying here.
Well, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_04 (52:31):
Thank you so much for all that you do.
And um, tell your mom I said hi.
Veronica says you guys are justtalk so suck so highly of you
two, which is part of why I waslike, Veronica, you're setting
the bar really high.
SPEAKER_03 (52:43):
That's very sweet.
Oh, well, tell her hello andthank you.
Yes, we um we love her.
She's very sweet.
We yeah, she's a great talk.
SPEAKER_04 (52:51):
Well, cheers.
Have a good rest of your night.
Thanks, you too.
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_03 (52:55):
Oh my gosh.
Well, that was amazing.
Thank you so much, Nina, um, andNorthwest Surrogacy Center.
This has been wonderful insightto so many things.
If anybody has any questions orstories that they would like to
share, please feel free to reachout to us on Instagram at
StopPeriodsit Period Surrogate,or you can email us at stop
periodsitperiod surrogate atgmail.com.
And this has been anotherepisode of Stopsit Surrogate.
(53:18):
See you next time.
Bye.
Before we wrap up, we want togive a huge thank you to our
sponsors, Northwest SurrogacyCenter, New York Surrogacy
Center, Paying It ForwardSurrogacy.
Their continued support helps usshare real stories to educate
our community and connectfamilies through the incredible
journey of surrogacy.
(53:38):
Thanks so much for tuning in toStopsit Surrogate, where every
story matters and every journeyis worth sharing.
We'll see you next time.
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