August 31, 2025 • 49 mins
#surrogacy #ivf #surrogate
Paying It Forward Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/payingitforward_surrogacy?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Beth Moskowicz journey through surrogacy began over a decade ago when she and her husband faced fertility challenges. After failed IVF transfers and a heartbreaking miscarriage, they turned to surrogacy—a path that would not only build their family but eventually shape Beth's career and life purpose.
What started as her personal quest for parenthood evolved into a profound mission to help others. Beth candidly shares the dramatic birth of her daughter, where a rare umbilical cord complication led to moments of terror before joy. Three years later, after unsuccessful transfer attempts with their first surrogate, they matched with another surrogate who carried their son to term. These experiences gave Beth unique insight into both the emotional rollercoaster and practical realities of surrogacy journeys.
The technological advancements Beth witnessed between her children's births—just three years apart—highlight how rapidly the field evolves. Genetic testing of embryos, unavailable during her daughter's journey, became standard practice by the time her son was conceived, fundamentally changing success rates and risk factors.
Today, as founder of Paying it Forward Surrogacy, Beth deliberately maintains a boutique approach, personally managing no more than seven cases at once. This allows her to provide the kind of attentive support she valued during her own surrogacy experiences. Her background as both a newspaper reporter and law school graduate equips her with exceptional communication skills and legal understanding—though she's quick to clarify she doesn't write contracts herself.
Beth offers valuable perspective on the changing landscape of surrogacy compensation and state legislation, particularly regarding pregnancy termination rights. Her balanced approach acknowledges both surrogate worth and the financial realities faced by intended parents. Above all, she emphasizes the critical importance of thorough research, clear communication, and addressing concerns promptly rather than letting them fester.
Connect with Beth at payingitforwardsurrogacy.com to learn how her uniquely personal approach might support your surrogacy journey.
Instagram: Stop.Sit.Surrogate
TikTok: Stop.Sit.Surrogate
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome.
We are a mother-daughterpodcast about all things
surrogacy.
Together, we have brought eightbeautiful babies into this
world and we would like to sharethrough education and knowledge
about surrogacy with those whowant to educate themselves on
the topic.
This is Stop Sit Surrogate.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi everybody, welcome back to Stop Sit Surrogate with
Kennedy and Ellen Everybody.
We have a beautiful guest today, and so I'm going to let her
introduce herself.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Hi everyone.
My name is Beth Moskowitz, I ama parent twice through
surrogacy and I am also theowner of an agency, a surrogacy
agency called Paying it ForwardSurrogacy.
The name came from the factthat when I, after having my two
(00:56):
children through surrogacy andstarting to case manage
surrogacy cases, I would say toeveryone involved that I just
feel so grateful that I was ableto build my family this way and
that I just enjoy paying itforward to, you know, the next
(01:18):
group of people who you know, uh, this lovely surrogacy world.
So that's just a little bitabout myself and the name of the
agency.
And, um, yeah, we are based inTexas, um, but we work with
intended parents and surrogatesthroughout the country, um,
(01:51):
country, um, and uh, the only wedo not work with, um,
international intended parents,just fyi, yeah, but yeah, other
than that, you know that'sthat's kind of our, our
backstory, um, and yeah, I justI'm excited to talk all things
intended parent and agency.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
So so we're going to start kind of from the beginning
, right?
So number one how did you findout about surrogacy?
And number two like what wasyour, I guess your guys'
decision to use surrogacy togrow your family?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, yeah, so, um, you know, we started down the
road of fertility treatments formyself, um, my husband and I,
shortly after we got married, um, and we were living in New York
city at the time, um, and wedid two IVF transfers with
(02:44):
myself, and the first transferit was a chemical pregnancy.
The second one, we did get to aheartbeat, which was very
exciting, and that happened tocoincide with a planned move.
(03:05):
To coincide with a planned move, my husband was completing his
medical school education and hehad a fellowship in Baltimore.
So we got the positive, allgood congratulations.
We made the move to Baltimoreand I had a follow-up
appointment and unfortunately,that resulted in, um, that I, I
(03:29):
miscarried.
So, um, yeah, so after that wejust kind of said, okay, let's
find you know some, uh, a clinicin Baltimore, so walked right
in and basically they said, youknow, uh, really, let's, let's
just talk about the end goal ofhaving a healthy baby at the end
(03:53):
and this was my daughter is 11now.
So this was, I would say, youknow, 12 and a half years ago,
um, and so, you know, surrogacywas out there, but it really was
.
It's like night and day, Iwould say, compared to where
things are now.
But you know, I rememberthinking physically I had, you
(04:20):
know, had just gone through, youknow, just a whole lot.
I had just gone through just awhole lot.
So, physically, I was ready tohands with the agency.
(04:54):
And also, once he introduced usto our surrogate, it didn't feel
like this amorphous kind ofidea, kind of idea Like it felt
like, okay, these are, these arepeople that you know, I have
met, that I felt really werewanting to do this, you know,
(05:14):
for all the right reasons, and Ireally connected with them,
just like you know.
It just felt like, you know,these are people that I could
see being friends with and justkind of having a good experience
with this.
So there was a level of trustthat once that meeting happened
that I, you know, it all clicked.
(05:37):
Yeah, it all felt real.
And now that I have my agency,I always say that's one of my
favorite things is doing thematch meetings and seeing those
moments play out again in realtime.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Because it becomes real, like it becomes like oh my
gosh, we might be able to dothis.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right and you can kind of see the clicks with
everyone when that happens.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And besides seeing the little baby pictures, that's
my second favorite part of thewhole process is connecting the
people.
And okay, so you got with thisagency.
And when it came to matching,I'm just so curious because back
then what, 12 years ago, right,yeah, who did you get to see
the surrogates first?
Or did they get to see you andbe like, oh, we like you?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
so we were, and this is how we do it at our agency
also.
Um, the surrogate first seessaw our profile because you know
, know, and I always explainthis I would rather, after
everything most intended parentshave been through, to get to,
you know, the point of surrogacy.
(06:55):
I would rather come to thesurrogate, I mean come to the
intended parent, with theknowledge that the surrogate has
already expressed interest intheir, in their profile.
So that's yeah, that's how wekind of did it then and that's
what I do with our matches.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So yeah, that's, that's really great.
So then, and then you got tosee the surrogate once.
They were like hey, somebody'sinterested in you.
And then you got to see hersurrogate once.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
They were like hey somebody's interested in you and
then you got to see her profile, yes, and then, um, I feel you
know, even though it was 12years ago, I do believe we all
kind of did a video.
You know, it was kind of notsoon, maybe it was over Skype.
Um, yeah, the previousiteration with our, um, yeah,
(07:46):
the agency owner, he was part ofit and yeah, it was, um, it was
just a great, great journey.
We, um, yeah, we did the firsttransfer and one embryo, one
embryo years ago, okay.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Wow, even 12 years ago.
That's amazing.
All right, just did there.
Did you already have eggsfrozen when?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
you, and that's one thing that I, we had to create
the embryos, um, yeah, and thatis again one thing now, um that
I I know it's a common questionthat surrogates come to us and
ask how many embryos you know,have they been tested, et cetera
(08:31):
.
And so, while I'm always happyto speak with intended parents
at any point that they're at intheir journey, that they're at
in their journey, I do um waituntil embryos are created to
kind of get to the matchingpoint, um, because you know it's
(08:53):
just like any part of thisprocess.
You just don't know, um, youknow, through the embryo making
how many and you know, um, youknow, through the embryo making
how many, and you know, um, I'veseen where you know,
unfortunately, they have to.
(09:14):
You know, one cycle doesn'tresult in, you know, a
genetically test tested normalembryo for even one.
So, yeah, so that's just kindof how we operate, but, yeah,
for us that's good.
Yeah, so, um, and pregnancy washealthy, everything, yeah, well
, it was pitch perfect.
(09:34):
Um, I still tell my daughterabout, you know, the drama, um,
at the birth, oh, oh, the birthwas a moment.
The birth was strong.
Yeah, at the moment, okay, hewas literally like about to be
born.
They could see the head.
And then all of a sudden Iheard the doctor say there's no
heartbeat.
And then, yeah, and then whywould he say that out loud?
(09:58):
Very quickly, very quickly,they wheeled our surrogate in
for an emergency C-section.
Yeah, you can see her head.
They wheeled our surrogate infor an emergency C-section, whoa
, yeah, you can see her head.
Yeah, I mean, I wasn't so, butyeah.
And then my husband and I werejust waiting and then the doctor
(10:21):
comes back, kind of looks likehe's been, you know,
shell-shocked a little.
So we weren't you know surewhat to make.
And then so we asked.
He said, oh, no, one told youthe baby's totally fine.
Everything turned out.
They did not.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Based on the anatomy scans, she um, a filamentous
cord insertion yeah, just likeum, the last gal we talked to,
ken, um, she's the nurse in thelabor and delivery era so,
basically, right before, from myI'm not, you know, a medical,
(11:02):
but my understanding is, rightbefore she was born, the cord
snapped, correct.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
She lost oxygen, correct.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And it's very, very dangerous for mom and baby, for
surrogate and baby.
Yeah, you can lose them both.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Exactly.
So again, we weren't in theroom, but they told me for
surrogate.
They said you might have to dothis.
By the way, anesthesiologistwas not present.
Yeah, yeah, that's a wholenother story, but wait so she
wasn't put under I didn't thinkso.
They said to her yeah, do youthink you could try to push
(11:41):
really quickly?
And oh, okay, and lo and behold, our little five-pound
two-ounce daughter came out,just fine.
So, she did push.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
She did yes, no C-section, okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
So she did not have to have a C-section, okay, but
yeah, it was only after whenthey, I guess the placenta that
they they figured out.
It's very scary, oh yeah, andmy daughter is like the most
calm, relaxed personality, soI'm like she got the drama out
(12:19):
of you just through that yeah,got her drama.
Phil got it all out in thebeginning.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Oh, my gosh so yeah so then, okay, so, so she's
healthy.
So, and you said that your kidsare three years apart they're
through almost exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, um, the same surrogate.
No, so, yeah.
So after our daughter was born,you know, we knew we would want
a sibling and our surrogate wastotally on board.
And you know, we were veryexcited and by that time we had
(13:01):
moved once again.
We weren't in the Maryland area, we moved to Texas by that
point and we but we still, youknow, said let's do this long
distance.
And we did two transfers withthat surrogate, transfers with
(13:28):
that surrogate and, um,unfortunately, both times, just,
they did not have um positivepregnancies.
So, and on top of that, shestarted to um have like not I
want to say like allergy, butshe was reacting very, very
poorly to the medications.
Yeah, so at that point we justkind of said, okay, you know,
(13:54):
maybe this is time to, you know,think about, you know next
steps.
And again, we were living inTexas by that agency and they
said you know the firstconversation.
She said you know, there's thisamazing surrogate.
(14:27):
She was matched, she's beenmedically cleared by this clinic
, unfortunately, as after she,like almost shortly after she
was matched, the intended fatherpassed away unexpectedly.
Oh, I got goosebumps.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, it's very sad.
So they, she said the agencyowner, she said but listen, so
if you're open to working withthis clinic, this could be a
very fast process.
So and again we connected andmeant to be, yeah, exactly, um,
(15:09):
and did the you know firstembryo again with this surrogate
and our son was born.
That's awesome.
Almost exactly my daughter'sbirthday is late January and my
son was early January.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So Cool, that's cool From the same time.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah exactly so how did that pregnancy?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
go Perfect.
I mean yeah, yeah, and so, yeah, pregnancy go perfect.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
I mean yeah, yeah, and so yeah, like I being in the
room when he was born, I waslike, oh okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
um, and I joke because he he had like super
easy, you know, no drama withthe pregnancy or delivery, and
he's more of my drama king now Iwould say that's funny.
So we never know how thingswork out, but yeah, so that was
(16:08):
lovely, we were.
And you know, she, oursurrogate, who carried her son,
really said I it's reallyimportant for me that you guys
cause I was like we're open towhatever you know, if you want
us to be there, if you want, youknow, some privacy, and she's
like no, like, again, reallyimportant For me that you know
(16:31):
you all get to be there andexperience this, cause this is
something that I'm I'm doing foryou all.
So that's really really for theright reasons yeah right,
exactly, exactly, so, yeah, um,very cool.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
So that's yeah, so that's how we so then from that,
how soon do you go into your tobuild your agency?
You said you worked as a casemanager for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I worked for a case manager for a Texas based
surrogacy agency.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
The same one you used .
Speaker 3 (17:06):
No, actually it was a different one.
Yeah, I, I believe I saw theyhad.
They were this agency.
I ended up working with postedum on um, a surrogacy
professionals web, um Facebookpage that they were looking for.
(17:26):
Uh, I worked with them from2017 through 2020.
And then, in the midst of thepandemic, I was like you know,
(17:49):
let's just add a little moredrama and spice to life.
And I decided, you know thiswas I was going to take this
moment and start my own, my ownagency.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So, yeah, Good for you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So your agency was born then, yeah, yeah, and um,
yeah it it's just really, um,like I said, I just being able
to, you know, connect withpeople, um, who you know again
(18:31):
are have the heart surrogates,who again are just passionate
about providing this amazinggift for people, and then, you
know, helping intended parents,you know, get through, navigate
the ups and downs of theirjourneys, is also something that
(18:52):
I just truly, I feel honored to, to be a part of there.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
And you have the real world experience.
You've been there.
You've been on both sides of it.
Yeah, waiting for the periodand then having the not the well
.
Yeah, having the failedtransfers and then finally
getting success.
So you know the ups and downsand you know it can work.
It will work if people are justpatient.
Right, it typically works.
(19:18):
Let's put it that way.
You may have to changesurrogates, who knows Exactly?
Yeah, wow, you know.
If you're.
That's some insight on your end.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Like seriously.
No, really.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
That's.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
No, I mean I Today I was having a conversation with a
(20:05):
potential intended mom who youknow, unfortunately she happen.
But if you, you just believethat it is possible, then you
know and you're willing to keepat it.
It truly, it truly will happen.
So yeah, so that.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Your story is so sweet it is.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
It is how many babies have been born.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes, so through our agency, um we, I, I keep our our
caseload um intentionally smallCause I'm the primary case
manager.
Um, as soon as we get up toseven to seven cases, I don't
you know take on any more, justbecause I feel that that's truly
my sweet spot of busy enoughbut not pulling out my hair with
(20:49):
craziness.
So yeah, so I would estimate,close to you know, 40.
Wow, that's impressive.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
So, it's.
Is it just you?
You said primary yeah.
So, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, it's very like I said it's definitely a
boutique agency, but I reallykind of like being able to.
That's not a bad thing.
Yeah, in everything it's almostvery appealing.
Yeah absolutely, because if youget to go right to the top to
(21:30):
get everything and you're notwaiting days upon days for your
case manager to go and do thatfor you, yeah, that's huge and
again, I it was less so with thejourney with our son because I
already had a kid and I trustedthe process, but truly the
(21:55):
support and just cheerleadingand etc.
That I got from the agencyowner that we worked with with
our daughter, um, he truly, umit made me committed to being
there from start to finish forintended parents and surrogates
(22:18):
throughout the journey.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Makes a difference.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It's a huge difference, first person that
you you speak with truly setsthe tone for you know, for the
agency and and um, you dodevelop a certain level of trust
and communication and so, um, Ijust I feel like being able to
(22:51):
kind of be there from start tofinish.
There's the way that I I kindof feel, I love it, thank you
yeah, I think it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I think I think it would be nicer to have more, as
you call it, like boutiqueagencies and like, just because
you know I've I mean all my, allof mine uh, all my journeys
have been through agencies.
Okay, I think there's nothingwrong with agencies.
I have been with um, populatedagencies, not saying that
(23:26):
they're overpopulated, but youknow it's like the, you know
it's the normal number.
I have a great case managergoing around this time, which
I'm really thankful for.
But in the past, right, goodluck getting in contact with
somebody when you actually had aquestion and then to even talk
to the agency owner.
Only time I ever talked to anagency owner was when I was a
problem.
So, you know, it's interestingto have the trust and to be able
(23:51):
to know you like the person whocreated the agency.
Like that's a huge.
For me personally, that's ahuge thing.
As a surrogate.
It's like wait, she actuallycares, like she didn't just like
do this to put some money inher back pocket.
Unfortunately, some agenciesare like that.
So it's nice the boutique feel,because you feel there's more
(24:12):
of like an intimate relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, and you know I am one of those people that have
my phone with me at all times.
So if you reach out to me, I'mYou're going to respond yeah.
Yeah, my.
(24:40):
Before getting into this world,my background was trained in.
I was a newspaper reporter andthen, yeah, I did have a law
degree too, so I did.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, pulling all these out of your hat, why don't
you?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
You don't write the contracts.
You don't write the contracts.
Don't write the contractsyou're not the lawyer.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
No, no, no, no, happily no, but um, yeah, so 180
.
But yeah, I mean my gut, mythat training as a reporter kind
of.
I think first of all, like,yeah, it's just like I'm not
with, like it's my nature justto like get back to good
(25:24):
communication, to yeah, right,be really try to be really clear
.
And then, yeah, I feel like,well, I certainly don't write
the contracts, like, um, well, Icertainly don't write the
contracts, um, you know, it does.
Having that experience, I thinkit doesn't you know it's.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
It's a positive too yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure,
for sure, yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Sometimes it'd be easier to ask somebody I already
trust, rather than my lawyernot saying I don't trust my
lawyer.
I've had lawyers I don't trust.
So I mean, if I trust you more,I'm going to be like can I ask
your opinion?
Like, is this normal?
Is this not normal?
Because sometimes I don't knowif I, you know, I'm going to ask
you this because you're anintended parent.
(26:08):
So sometimes as a surrogate, Ialways felt like I was being
judged by things when I didn'tunderstand things in a contract
or if I wanted to changesomething in it.
Like, how dare you want tochange my contract, or something
like that.
Like, is that something that anIP sometimes maybe feels, or
not really?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I mean I as the intended parent, I would rather,
if you don't understandsomething, I would rather you
say can you explain this?
Or you know like it's in ourbest interest for everyone, for
everyone to understand and be onthe same page.
So that's not no I, I wouldn'tsee that as as problematic.
(26:54):
I think it think contracts areMumbo jumbo.
Yeah, a little bit, and I feellike sometimes the attorneys,
(27:15):
they're doing their jobs andadvocating for whoever they're
representing, and sometimes eachside kind of views that as
coming from either the intendedparent or the surrogate, when
it's really the lawyer right,the attorney's advocating.
(27:37):
And so you know, I do thinksometimes as the agency, I can
step in and say, hey, like youknow, I'm not, you know, doing
the negotiations, I'm not partof that, but you know.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I'm not part of that, but you know, let's maybe take
a take a pause and and justthink about.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
You know that this might just be a case of you know
where the attorneys areadvocating to the best of their
abilities, for, yeah, they'repart of that.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, they've been through a lot more journeys than
right, like a surrogate or anintended parent most of the time
, because this is what they dofor a living.
So they've seen things andoftentimes they put they put in
precautionary measures in casethe worst happened, which I
appreciate.
But then at the same time youknow you're like, well, that's
not going to happen, like Idon't want that, that's an icky
thing to put in there, and it'slike, well, you'll be thankful.
But then, if it, does Godforbid happen.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Then it's there and yeah, so, yeah, exactly, yeah,
(29:20):
no, we, in terms of yeah, whenit comes to the legal phase, I
will present you know, theintended parents on the
surrogate, with at least twooptions of possible attorneys,
like I, okay, um, you know, I, Isay these are attorneys who
have experience in this area.
They are part of you know, theuh, our associations that deal
with, you know, adoption andsurrogacy, etc.
But you know, you guys to, youknow, I'm not funneling you to a
specific attorney or whatnot.
(29:42):
So, yeah, that's kind of how wedo it.
And then, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I love your whole story.
Yeah, it's fun.
Whole story.
Yeah, it's it's fun.
And the fact that you wentthrough this process yourself 12
years ago and see how much, ona daily basis, is changed, I
mean it's.
Yeah, it's got to be it's.
I mean, I know from 22 yearsago my mom had triplets and like
that's a drastic change.
But even I feel like when Istarted what five, six, seven
(30:13):
years ago, it's still a drasticchange.
So one thing definitely with iswhich I'm so grateful for.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
The advance of genetic testing of embryos
Wasn't a thing with our daughter, it was with our son.
So just the three years, wow,yeah, so, um, wow, yeah, I mean
yeah, so I feel like that, justtelling us you can attest, you
know, yeah, they graded himRight.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
You go A through.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
F yeah.
So again the F yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
So again, the you put in one genetically tested
awesome embryo instead of youknow four and get three Right.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Crazy, so that's a big thing.
Um, you know, and, and really Iwould say, the perspective of
surrogate-based compensation,you know, from 12 years ago to
where it is today, I would say,is another you know big big
(31:30):
change.
Yeah, but you know, that's.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Are you in agreement with that big change, or like,
what are my thoughts?
So a little bit, you don't haveto go totally into it.
I'm just curious because it itis huge, it's huge, it's a big.
It kind of puts some people outof being able to do surrogacy.
We say that all the time.
It precludes people who really,really need the service from
(31:58):
doing it.
And yet surrogates have to becompensated.
But yet, okay, when is enoughright?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah, I mean the moment recently where I could
feel my blood pressure going upwas, um, on a one, a facebook
page, there was a intendedparent who said you know, we, we
were presented with, we werewith an agency, we were
(32:28):
presented with a profile and itwas a first-time surrogate.
Who's asking for $120,000.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
That's way high for a first yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
First time surrogate.
I was thinking there's just noway.
You know that, yeah, and I meanI'd be honest if that was a
surrogate came to me saying thatI, I, I would, I would have to
(33:01):
say listen, you're more thanwelcome to you.
Know what, what number thatthat you feel is what you're
thinking of, but unfortunately Idon't think that I would be
able to find you a match withintended parents, so I wouldn't
want to waste your time, or youknow, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I do want to put this out there real quick.
As someone who has had mystarting compensation to what I
have now as a fourth timesurrogate, it's very, very, very
different and I could neverimagine getting what I would be
getting compensated for myfourth time versus my first time
.
I that's.
I understand that wouldn't be athing.
However, I do know that beingcompensated more often comes
(33:49):
with a.
Oftentimes it would have to beof someone of uh, maybe NDAs are
signed, have to be of someoneof maybe NDAs are signed.
There's a lot more that comesinto play.
The higher compensation thatyou're looking for oftentimes
and it really sometimes does notit's not worth it, like it's
(34:09):
not worth the headaches and allof the legalities that are extra
with it all.
So it is a very interesting.
It is an interesting topic.
We talk about it a lot.
You really have to do yourresearch and figure out what are
your core requirements.
Yeah, your core requirementsLike if that's not like an
(34:35):
absolute must.
Then you're going to be able toput yourself in a bigger, in a
bigger pool with other people,and there you know there won't
be as many restrictions.
I just want to throw that outthere.
I'm not saying that youshouldn't ask for what you think
that you should ask, but thereare things that come with
everything.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
That is more of a high profile client too, if you
think about that it's it's moreon that end, especially if
you're doing it first time andyou're asking for those Exactly,
but this did not sound like ahigh profile intended parent.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah Poor thing she was on Facebook, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
That's heartbreaking for the intended parents.
Even though I'm on thesurrogate side, my heart breaks
for the intended parents becausethey're throwing everything
into this.
Money doesn't grow on trees,it's, you know.
I wish everybody could have thefamily they wanted.
Do you know what I mean?
You didn't have to fight and gobroke for it.
(35:33):
Yeah, yeah.
We'll get your house All that.
It's hard to watch sometimes.
Not everybody's in thatposition of making $300,000 a
year that can afford this Right.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
On the other hand, I do, when I, you know, my initial
meet and greet with potentialintended parents.
I I do explain that location,um, where the surrogate lives.
There, there is variance interms of base compensation, um,
(36:11):
so you know a surrogate thatlives in a state that has
amazing surrogacy laws and nolaws that limit termination
Right there's a value to thatyou know, yeah, that's wild yes.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Can I ask you a question now that you just
brought that up?
I'm curious do you have a lotof surrogates in Texas or are
they elsewhere?
Because I know the laws havechanged there.
Laws have changed.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, I mean, we do Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, I'm just curious.
That's very interesting.
Is that a fear of intendedparents?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
That's a whole different ballgame now have, um,
(37:24):
they're very savvy to knowwhich states you know, um, not
only are the ideal, but onesthat are no good.
Like very common for me to hearfrom intended parents.
Yeah, you know, unfortunately.
We know that surrogacy laws inTexas are great in terms of
getting pre-birth orders, butyou know the limits that we have
(37:44):
in Texas on the ability toterminate a pregnancy.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
It's just for some intended parents, it's just it's
something they're not going torisk because they yeah, it's
their child and they have to bethe ones who decide yeah,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Um so yeah, it's one of those initial conversations
that um that we get into and I,I, I truly, when it comes to I
call them non-negotiables, likethey're.
They're truly.
There's no right and wrong toany of this.
(38:26):
Um, but you know, um, these arethings that I feel like people.
It's.
It's really helpful when Italked to intended parents and
surrogates and they're veryclear about certain requirements
.
So, yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Because you never think you're going to be faced
with any of that until you'refaced with it, and then the hard
decisions have to be made.
Or you signed a contract andyou're forced into it, thinking
it, then the hard decisions haveto be made.
Or you signed a contract andyou're forced into it, thinking
it would never, ever happen toyou.
And that's happened.
So that's scary.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I mean I will say in terms of um, and and back to the
discussion about genetictesting, um, you know, on on the
positive side, um transferringgenetically tested embryos.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It doesn't mean that you know if you get pregnant
that everything's going to befine, but I do feel like, as
much as you can, you're creatingthe healthiest baby possible.
And so, you know, um, there areintended parents that they've
said, you know, you've done thegenetic testing and we feel,
(39:48):
okay, we're still comfortable.
Um, so, yeah, um, I will sayintended parents who already
live in Texas.
Or, you know, I connect prettyfrequently with intended parents
who live in Louisiana, which isalso, you know, but it's, you
(40:11):
know, pretty close to Houston.
So if you're again in Texas orclose to Texas, I think it's
it's more of an option.
Um, but yeah, it's, it'sdefinitely been a transition.
So, yeah, yeah, oh do you haveum?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
do you have any advice for any intended parent
or anybody that's going to starttheir surrogacy journeys?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
And I see this every day, again, looking through the
Facebook posts do your homeworkbefore really getting in the
nitty gritty of matching,whether it's you know what kind
of agency you want.
The fertility clinic you'reworking with, um, I mean, it's
(41:04):
such a huge, huge part of it.
But feeling good about theclinic, um, escrow, feeling
comfortable with you know, andescrow, feeling comfortable with
you know, understanding how thefinancial part of this works,
(41:24):
what's you know, how it should,how, again, how I feel like the
process should work with thefinances in terms of you know
you talked to an agency thatdoes in-house escrow, so you
know.
Just again, doing your homeworkto know you know what some red
flags are and even things thataren't red flags, but what
(41:51):
you're looking for you know, interms of an agency, or you know
a clinic, or the process, cause,um, you know, once you do reach
out, things can go reallyquickly.
So, um, really quick.
So I never, you know, um, Ialways feel bad when things pop
(42:16):
up and it, you know, it feelslike well, you know, this
convert, you know you weresupposed to have this
conversation with this personand and that didn't happen.
And now we're here and I'm I'msorry about that, but and now
we're here and.
I'm I'm sorry about that, but umdoesn't get easy.
(42:37):
Yeah Right, just, you know, um,do your research and and take
your time and um don't be afraidto.
I feel like a lot of times thefirst tendency is just to you
know kind of, if there areissues that pop up, just to kind
(43:03):
of put them to the side.
And sometimes they're stillkind of in the back of the line,
and you know, I feel likethat's as the agency, like my
job is to give either side theopportunity to again come to us
and say, hey, this is on my mindand like what you know, what
(43:30):
can we do about this?
Or what solutions can we comeup with?
Or you know some, you know,this person told me this is that
correct?
And or what, asking me what Ithink about this, and so yeah,
(43:50):
don't let it fester.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Be right to address the situation.
It could be something littlethat snuggles and it's creating
all kinds of problems ratherthan dealing with it.
It was just a misunderstandingor a miscommunication.
It happens all the time.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
And there just has to be next level of communication
during the Agreed Any surrogacyjourney, because it takes a lot
of people to and you're in avery intimate setting and you
really are.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
you become part of each other's lives very, very
quickly.
It's quicker than dating Likeyou're a lot more intimate, a
lot more intimate, yeah, andthen it's over, like, like you
know, it doesn't not.
You know what I'm saying?
The main process is over.
There could be the relationship, but it's a weird dynamic and
you have to learn how tonavigate it.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, exactly, wow, and having again, you know, a
third neutral party kind ofthere to kind of mediate or
bounce things off of or whatnot.
I do think there is value inthat.
(45:00):
For sure, um, some people aresuper comfortable with you know
the intended parents andsurrogates can have those
difficult conversations, but Ifeel like I like to think that
having a third party helpsmaintain the relation, you know
(45:20):
the good relationships betweenthe surrogate and the intended
parents, cause then there's athird party kind of out there,
kind of being the setting theboundaries, delivering the hard
truths right, talking peopledown.
Yeah, yeah, if that makes sense,sense, it totally makes sense,
(45:42):
it makes perfect sense yeah, soso yeah, that, those third off
the top of my head, those are myyep, it's good advice yeah,
great advice, thank you wow,well, I just, I just have to say
your story is beautiful.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Carrie speaks volumes of you.
So thank you, carrie, forletting us know who the agency
was, because every time she'salways positive about you.
Thank you, thank you, thank youAbsolutely.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Where can people?
Speaker 2 (46:14):
find you like reach you.
Thank you absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Where can people find you likereach out to you if they're
interested?
I know you.
I know you do small amount ofcases but you know yeah,
definitely.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Well, you can always reach out um via um.
Our website is um.
It's long.
It'spayingitforwardsurrogacycom.
And also you can email me atBeth at
payingitforwardsurrogacycom.
Okay, awesome, those are thebest ways.
(46:53):
We're also on Instagram,payingitforwardsurrogacy and on
Facebookpayingitforwardsurrogacy.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
That name wasn't taken.
You got to use it because itwasn't taken.
It's an awesome name, love it.
Like I said, it's so cool.
Everything just like came backfull circle.
It's just, it makes it such.
You're such a cool person, butjust the whole thing.
And then you named your agencypaying it forward, like wait a
minute.
So just all really good, goodvibes.
(47:19):
I love it, thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk
with us.
Thank you both.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
This has been awesome .
I'm sorry I had mic issues.
I will correct that next time.
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
This is lovely.
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
We appreciate yours, thank you so much, thank you so
much.
Have a great evening.
Thank you, you guys too.
Take care, good luck.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Wow, that was phenomenal.
Oh my God, that's the way to doit.
I don't know.
She was an intended parent.
She opened an agency and thenshe hired a surrogate, like wait
a minute Like so cool, shedidn't just hire any surrogate,
she hired Carrie.
She hired Carrie, I know shehired Carrie, not just any
surrogate yeah, who justflawlessly does surrogacy?
(48:08):
Just amazing.
That small heck.
Yeah, I love it.
I mean she may, she may decideto get a little bit bigger, but
she, I would want to work withher, like right.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
well, you know that things are going to get answered
.
You know that you're going tobe taken care of.
You know that you're going tobe seen.
I know you're going to bewatched over.
You know that you're going tobe trusted, protected, all the
things, because you're not goingto get lost in the big pond.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
And she's so passionate about Like she look
at all the things she's beentrained in.
She could have done numerousthings and she decided to come
back to this.
It's so important.
Yeah, I love it.
So thank you for being with us.
It was lovely, lovely talk.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Amazing.
Thank you so much, beth.
If anybody has any questions orstories they would like to
share, please feel free to reachout to us on Instagram at Stop
Period Sit Period Surrogate, oryou can email us at Stop Period
Sit Period Surrogate at gmailcom.
Speaker 4 (48:58):
It's been another edition of Stop Sit Surrogate
with Kennedy and Ellen.
Thanks everybody, bye, bye.
If you enjoyed this podcast, besure to give us a like and
subscribe.
Also, check out the link to ourYouTube channel in the
description and be sure to alsocheck out our children's book my
Mom has Superpowers, sold onAmazon and Etsy.
Welcome.
We are a mother-daughterpodcast about all things
surrogacy.
Together, we have brought eightbeautiful babies into this
world and we would like to sharethrough education and knowledge
about surrogacy with those whowant to educate themselves on
the topic.
This is Stop Sit Surrogate.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi everybody, welcome back to Stop Sit Surrogate with
Kennedy and Ellen Everybody.
We have a beautiful guest today, and so I'm going to let her
introduce herself.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Hi everyone.
My name is Beth Moskowitz, I ama parent twice through
surrogacy and I am also theowner of an agency, a surrogacy
agency called Paying it ForwardSurrogacy.
The name came from the factthat when I, after having my two
(00:56):
children through surrogacy andstarting to case manage
surrogacy cases, I would say toeveryone involved that I just
feel so grateful that I was ableto build my family this way and
that I just enjoy paying itforward to, you know, the next
(01:18):
group of people who you know, uh, this lovely surrogacy world.
So that's just a little bitabout myself and the name of the
agency.
And, um, yeah, we are based inTexas, um, but we work with
intended parents and surrogatesthroughout the country, um,
(01:51):
country, um, and uh, the only wedo not work with, um,
international intended parents,just fyi, yeah, but yeah, other
than that, you know that'sthat's kind of our, our
backstory, um, and yeah, I justI'm excited to talk all things
intended parent and agency.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
So so we're going to start kind of from the beginning
, right?
So number one how did you findout about surrogacy?
And number two like what wasyour, I guess your guys'
decision to use surrogacy togrow your family?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, yeah, so, um, you know, we started down the
road of fertility treatments formyself, um, my husband and I,
shortly after we got married, um, and we were living in New York
city at the time, um, and wedid two IVF transfers with
(02:44):
myself, and the first transferit was a chemical pregnancy.
The second one, we did get to aheartbeat, which was very
exciting, and that happened tocoincide with a planned move.
(03:05):
To coincide with a planned move, my husband was completing his
medical school education and hehad a fellowship in Baltimore.
So we got the positive, allgood congratulations.
We made the move to Baltimoreand I had a follow-up
appointment and unfortunately,that resulted in, um, that I, I
(03:29):
miscarried.
So, um, yeah, so after that wejust kind of said, okay, let's
find you know some, uh, a clinicin Baltimore, so walked right
in and basically they said, youknow, uh, really, let's, let's
just talk about the end goal ofhaving a healthy baby at the end
(03:53):
and this was my daughter is 11now.
So this was, I would say, youknow, 12 and a half years ago,
um, and so, you know, surrogacywas out there, but it really was
.
It's like night and day, Iwould say, compared to where
things are now.
But you know, I rememberthinking physically I had, you
(04:20):
know, had just gone through, youknow, just a whole lot.
I had just gone through just awhole lot.
So, physically, I was ready tohands with the agency.
(04:54):
And also, once he introduced usto our surrogate, it didn't feel
like this amorphous kind ofidea, kind of idea Like it felt
like, okay, these are, these arepeople that you know, I have
met, that I felt really werewanting to do this, you know,
(05:14):
for all the right reasons, and Ireally connected with them,
just like you know.
It just felt like, you know,these are people that I could
see being friends with and justkind of having a good experience
with this.
So there was a level of trustthat once that meeting happened
that I, you know, it all clicked.
(05:37):
Yeah, it all felt real.
And now that I have my agency,I always say that's one of my
favorite things is doing thematch meetings and seeing those
moments play out again in realtime.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Because it becomes real, like it becomes like oh my
gosh, we might be able to dothis.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right and you can kind of see the clicks with
everyone when that happens.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And besides seeing the little baby pictures, that's
my second favorite part of thewhole process is connecting the
people.
And okay, so you got with thisagency.
And when it came to matching,I'm just so curious because back
then what, 12 years ago, right,yeah, who did you get to see
the surrogates first?
Or did they get to see you andbe like, oh, we like you?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
so we were, and this is how we do it at our agency
also.
Um, the surrogate first seessaw our profile because you know
, know, and I always explainthis I would rather, after
everything most intended parentshave been through, to get to,
you know, the point of surrogacy.
(06:55):
I would rather come to thesurrogate, I mean come to the
intended parent, with theknowledge that the surrogate has
already expressed interest intheir, in their profile.
So that's yeah, that's how wekind of did it then and that's
what I do with our matches.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So yeah, that's, that's really great.
So then, and then you got tosee the surrogate once.
They were like hey, somebody'sinterested in you.
And then you got to see hersurrogate once.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
They were like hey somebody's interested in you and
then you got to see her profile, yes, and then, um, I feel you
know, even though it was 12years ago, I do believe we all
kind of did a video.
You know, it was kind of notsoon, maybe it was over Skype.
Um, yeah, the previousiteration with our, um, yeah,
(07:46):
the agency owner, he was part ofit and yeah, it was, um, it was
just a great, great journey.
We, um, yeah, we did the firsttransfer and one embryo, one
embryo years ago, okay.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Wow, even 12 years ago.
That's amazing.
All right, just did there.
Did you already have eggsfrozen when?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
you, and that's one thing that I, we had to create
the embryos, um, yeah, and thatis again one thing now, um that
I I know it's a common questionthat surrogates come to us and
ask how many embryos you know,have they been tested, et cetera
(08:31):
.
And so, while I'm always happyto speak with intended parents
at any point that they're at intheir journey, that they're at
in their journey, I do um waituntil embryos are created to
kind of get to the matchingpoint, um, because you know it's
(08:53):
just like any part of thisprocess.
You just don't know, um, youknow, through the embryo making
how many and you know, um, youknow, through the embryo making
how many, and you know, um, I'veseen where you know,
unfortunately, they have to.
(09:14):
You know, one cycle doesn'tresult in, you know, a
genetically test tested normalembryo for even one.
So, yeah, so that's just kindof how we operate, but, yeah,
for us that's good.
Yeah, so, um, and pregnancy washealthy, everything, yeah, well
, it was pitch perfect.
(09:34):
Um, I still tell my daughterabout, you know, the drama, um,
at the birth, oh, oh, the birthwas a moment.
The birth was strong.
Yeah, at the moment, okay, hewas literally like about to be
born.
They could see the head.
And then all of a sudden Iheard the doctor say there's no
heartbeat.
And then, yeah, and then whywould he say that out loud?
(09:58):
Very quickly, very quickly,they wheeled our surrogate in
for an emergency C-section.
Yeah, you can see her head.
They wheeled our surrogate infor an emergency C-section, whoa
, yeah, you can see her head.
Yeah, I mean, I wasn't so, butyeah.
And then my husband and I werejust waiting and then the doctor
(10:21):
comes back, kind of looks likehe's been, you know,
shell-shocked a little.
So we weren't you know surewhat to make.
And then so we asked.
He said, oh, no, one told youthe baby's totally fine.
Everything turned out.
They did not.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Based on the anatomy scans, she um, a filamentous
cord insertion yeah, just likeum, the last gal we talked to,
ken, um, she's the nurse in thelabor and delivery era so,
basically, right before, from myI'm not, you know, a medical,
(11:02):
but my understanding is, rightbefore she was born, the cord
snapped, correct.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
She lost oxygen, correct.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And it's very, very dangerous for mom and baby, for
surrogate and baby.
Yeah, you can lose them both.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Exactly.
So again, we weren't in theroom, but they told me for
surrogate.
They said you might have to dothis.
By the way, anesthesiologistwas not present.
Yeah, yeah, that's a wholenother story, but wait so she
wasn't put under I didn't thinkso.
They said to her yeah, do youthink you could try to push
(11:41):
really quickly?
And oh, okay, and lo and behold, our little five-pound
two-ounce daughter came out,just fine.
So, she did push.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
She did yes, no C-section, okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
So she did not have to have a C-section, okay, but
yeah, it was only after whenthey, I guess the placenta that
they they figured out.
It's very scary, oh yeah, andmy daughter is like the most
calm, relaxed personality, soI'm like she got the drama out
(12:19):
of you just through that yeah,got her drama.
Phil got it all out in thebeginning.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Oh, my gosh so yeah so then, okay, so, so she's
healthy.
So, and you said that your kidsare three years apart they're
through almost exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, um, the same surrogate.
No, so, yeah.
So after our daughter was born,you know, we knew we would want
a sibling and our surrogate wastotally on board.
And you know, we were veryexcited and by that time we had
(13:01):
moved once again.
We weren't in the Maryland area, we moved to Texas by that
point and we but we still, youknow, said let's do this long
distance.
And we did two transfers withthat surrogate, transfers with
(13:28):
that surrogate and, um,unfortunately, both times, just,
they did not have um positivepregnancies.
So, and on top of that, shestarted to um have like not I
want to say like allergy, butshe was reacting very, very
poorly to the medications.
Yeah, so at that point we justkind of said, okay, you know,
(13:54):
maybe this is time to, you know,think about, you know next
steps.
And again, we were living inTexas by that agency and they
said you know the firstconversation.
She said you know, there's thisamazing surrogate.
(14:27):
She was matched, she's beenmedically cleared by this clinic
, unfortunately, as after she,like almost shortly after she
was matched, the intended fatherpassed away unexpectedly.
Oh, I got goosebumps.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, it's very sad.
So they, she said the agencyowner, she said but listen, so
if you're open to working withthis clinic, this could be a
very fast process.
So and again we connected andmeant to be, yeah, exactly, um,
(15:09):
and did the you know firstembryo again with this surrogate
and our son was born.
That's awesome.
Almost exactly my daughter'sbirthday is late January and my
son was early January.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So Cool, that's cool From the same time.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah exactly so how did that pregnancy?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
go Perfect.
I mean yeah, yeah, and so, yeah, pregnancy go perfect.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
I mean yeah, yeah, and so yeah, like I being in the
room when he was born, I waslike, oh okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
um, and I joke because he he had like super
easy, you know, no drama withthe pregnancy or delivery, and
he's more of my drama king now Iwould say that's funny.
So we never know how thingswork out, but yeah, so that was
(16:08):
lovely, we were.
And you know, she, oursurrogate, who carried her son,
really said I it's reallyimportant for me that you guys
cause I was like we're open towhatever you know, if you want
us to be there, if you want, youknow, some privacy, and she's
like no, like, again, reallyimportant For me that you know
(16:31):
you all get to be there andexperience this, cause this is
something that I'm I'm doing foryou all.
So that's really really for theright reasons yeah right,
exactly, exactly, so, yeah, um,very cool.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
So that's yeah, so that's how we so then from that,
how soon do you go into your tobuild your agency?
You said you worked as a casemanager for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I worked for a case manager for a Texas based
surrogacy agency.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
The same one you used .
Speaker 3 (17:06):
No, actually it was a different one.
Yeah, I, I believe I saw theyhad.
They were this agency.
I ended up working with postedum on um, a surrogacy
professionals web, um Facebookpage that they were looking for.
(17:26):
Uh, I worked with them from2017 through 2020.
And then, in the midst of thepandemic, I was like you know,
(17:49):
let's just add a little moredrama and spice to life.
And I decided, you know thiswas I was going to take this
moment and start my own, my ownagency.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So, yeah, Good for you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So your agency was born then, yeah, yeah, and um,
yeah it it's just really, um,like I said, I just being able
to, you know, connect withpeople, um, who you know again
(18:31):
are have the heart surrogates,who again are just passionate
about providing this amazinggift for people, and then, you
know, helping intended parents,you know, get through, navigate
the ups and downs of theirjourneys, is also something that
(18:52):
I just truly, I feel honored to, to be a part of there.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
And you have the real world experience.
You've been there.
You've been on both sides of it.
Yeah, waiting for the periodand then having the not the well
.
Yeah, having the failedtransfers and then finally
getting success.
So you know the ups and downsand you know it can work.
It will work if people are justpatient.
Right, it typically works.
(19:18):
Let's put it that way.
You may have to changesurrogates, who knows Exactly?
Yeah, wow, you know.
If you're.
That's some insight on your end.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Like seriously.
No, really.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
That's.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
No, I mean I Today I was having a conversation with a
(20:05):
potential intended mom who youknow, unfortunately she happen.
But if you, you just believethat it is possible, then you
know and you're willing to keepat it.
It truly, it truly will happen.
So yeah, so that.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Your story is so sweet it is.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
It is how many babies have been born.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes, so through our agency, um we, I, I keep our our
caseload um intentionally smallCause I'm the primary case
manager.
Um, as soon as we get up toseven to seven cases, I don't
you know take on any more, justbecause I feel that that's truly
my sweet spot of busy enoughbut not pulling out my hair with
(20:49):
craziness.
So yeah, so I would estimate,close to you know, 40.
Wow, that's impressive.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
So, it's.
Is it just you?
You said primary yeah.
So, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, it's very like I said it's definitely a
boutique agency, but I reallykind of like being able to.
That's not a bad thing.
Yeah, in everything it's almostvery appealing.
Yeah absolutely, because if youget to go right to the top to
(21:30):
get everything and you're notwaiting days upon days for your
case manager to go and do thatfor you, yeah, that's huge and
again, I it was less so with thejourney with our son because I
already had a kid and I trustedthe process, but truly the
(21:55):
support and just cheerleadingand etc.
That I got from the agencyowner that we worked with with
our daughter, um, he truly, umit made me committed to being
there from start to finish forintended parents and surrogates
(22:18):
throughout the journey.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Makes a difference.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It's a huge difference, first person that
you you speak with truly setsthe tone for you know, for the
agency and and um, you dodevelop a certain level of trust
and communication and so, um, Ijust I feel like being able to
(22:51):
kind of be there from start tofinish.
There's the way that I I kindof feel, I love it, thank you
yeah, I think it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I think I think it would be nicer to have more, as
you call it, like boutiqueagencies and like, just because
you know I've I mean all my, allof mine uh, all my journeys
have been through agencies.
Okay, I think there's nothingwrong with agencies.
I have been with um, populatedagencies, not saying that
(23:26):
they're overpopulated, but youknow it's like the, you know
it's the normal number.
I have a great case managergoing around this time, which
I'm really thankful for.
But in the past, right, goodluck getting in contact with
somebody when you actually had aquestion and then to even talk
to the agency owner.
Only time I ever talked to anagency owner was when I was a
problem.
So, you know, it's interestingto have the trust and to be able
(23:51):
to know you like the person whocreated the agency.
Like that's a huge.
For me personally, that's ahuge thing.
As a surrogate.
It's like wait, she actuallycares, like she didn't just like
do this to put some money inher back pocket.
Unfortunately, some agenciesare like that.
So it's nice the boutique feel,because you feel there's more
(24:12):
of like an intimate relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, and you know I am one of those people that have
my phone with me at all times.
So if you reach out to me, I'mYou're going to respond yeah.
Yeah, my.
(24:40):
Before getting into this world,my background was trained in.
I was a newspaper reporter andthen, yeah, I did have a law
degree too, so I did.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, pulling all these out of your hat, why don't
you?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
You don't write the contracts.
You don't write the contracts.
Don't write the contractsyou're not the lawyer.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
No, no, no, no, happily no, but um, yeah, so 180
.
But yeah, I mean my gut, mythat training as a reporter kind
of.
I think first of all, like,yeah, it's just like I'm not
with, like it's my nature justto like get back to good
(25:24):
communication, to yeah, right,be really try to be really clear
.
And then, yeah, I feel like,well, I certainly don't write
the contracts, like, um, well, Icertainly don't write the
contracts, um, you know, it does.
Having that experience, I thinkit doesn't you know it's.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
It's a positive too yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure,
for sure, yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Sometimes it'd be easier to ask somebody I already
trust, rather than my lawyernot saying I don't trust my
lawyer.
I've had lawyers I don't trust.
So I mean, if I trust you more,I'm going to be like can I ask
your opinion?
Like, is this normal?
Is this not normal?
Because sometimes I don't knowif I, you know, I'm going to ask
you this because you're anintended parent.
(26:08):
So sometimes as a surrogate, Ialways felt like I was being
judged by things when I didn'tunderstand things in a contract
or if I wanted to changesomething in it.
Like, how dare you want tochange my contract, or something
like that.
Like, is that something that anIP sometimes maybe feels, or
not really?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I mean I as the intended parent, I would rather,
if you don't understandsomething, I would rather you
say can you explain this?
Or you know like it's in ourbest interest for everyone, for
everyone to understand and be onthe same page.
So that's not no I, I wouldn'tsee that as as problematic.
(26:54):
I think it think contracts areMumbo jumbo.
Yeah, a little bit, and I feellike sometimes the attorneys,
(27:15):
they're doing their jobs andadvocating for whoever they're
representing, and sometimes eachside kind of views that as
coming from either the intendedparent or the surrogate, when
it's really the lawyer right,the attorney's advocating.
(27:37):
And so you know, I do thinksometimes as the agency, I can
step in and say, hey, like youknow, I'm not, you know, doing
the negotiations, I'm not partof that, but you know.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I'm not part of that, but you know, let's maybe take
a take a pause and and justthink about.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
You know that this might just be a case of you know
where the attorneys areadvocating to the best of their
abilities, for, yeah, they'repart of that.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, they've been through a lot more journeys than
right, like a surrogate or anintended parent most of the time
, because this is what they dofor a living.
So they've seen things andoftentimes they put they put in
precautionary measures in casethe worst happened, which I
appreciate.
But then at the same time youknow you're like, well, that's
not going to happen, like Idon't want that, that's an icky
thing to put in there, and it'slike, well, you'll be thankful.
But then, if it, does Godforbid happen.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Then it's there and yeah, so, yeah, exactly, yeah,
(29:20):
no, we, in terms of yeah, whenit comes to the legal phase, I
will present you know, theintended parents on the
surrogate, with at least twooptions of possible attorneys,
like I, okay, um, you know, I, Isay these are attorneys who
have experience in this area.
They are part of you know, theuh, our associations that deal
with, you know, adoption andsurrogacy, etc.
But you know, you guys to, youknow, I'm not funneling you to a
specific attorney or whatnot.
(29:42):
So, yeah, that's kind of how wedo it.
And then, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I love your whole story.
Yeah, it's fun.
Whole story.
Yeah, it's it's fun.
And the fact that you wentthrough this process yourself 12
years ago and see how much, ona daily basis, is changed, I
mean it's.
Yeah, it's got to be it's.
I mean, I know from 22 yearsago my mom had triplets and like
that's a drastic change.
But even I feel like when Istarted what five, six, seven
(30:13):
years ago, it's still a drasticchange.
So one thing definitely with iswhich I'm so grateful for.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
The advance of genetic testing of embryos
Wasn't a thing with our daughter, it was with our son.
So just the three years, wow,yeah, so, um, wow, yeah, I mean
yeah, so I feel like that, justtelling us you can attest, you
know, yeah, they graded himRight.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
You go A through.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
F yeah.
So again the F yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
So again, the you put in one genetically tested
awesome embryo instead of youknow four and get three Right.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Crazy, so that's a big thing.
Um, you know, and, and really Iwould say, the perspective of
surrogate-based compensation,you know, from 12 years ago to
where it is today, I would say,is another you know big big
(31:30):
change.
Yeah, but you know, that's.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Are you in agreement with that big change, or like,
what are my thoughts?
So a little bit, you don't haveto go totally into it.
I'm just curious because it itis huge, it's huge, it's a big.
It kind of puts some people outof being able to do surrogacy.
We say that all the time.
It precludes people who really,really need the service from
(31:58):
doing it.
And yet surrogates have to becompensated.
But yet, okay, when is enoughright?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah, I mean the moment recently where I could
feel my blood pressure going upwas, um, on a one, a facebook
page, there was a intendedparent who said you know, we, we
were presented with, we werewith an agency, we were
(32:28):
presented with a profile and itwas a first-time surrogate.
Who's asking for $120,000.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
That's way high for a first yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
First time surrogate.
I was thinking there's just noway.
You know that, yeah, and I meanI'd be honest if that was a
surrogate came to me saying thatI, I, I would, I would have to
(33:01):
say listen, you're more thanwelcome to you.
Know what, what number thatthat you feel is what you're
thinking of, but unfortunately Idon't think that I would be
able to find you a match withintended parents, so I wouldn't
want to waste your time, or youknow, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I do want to put this out there real quick.
As someone who has had mystarting compensation to what I
have now as a fourth timesurrogate, it's very, very, very
different and I could neverimagine getting what I would be
getting compensated for myfourth time versus my first time
.
I that's.
I understand that wouldn't be athing.
However, I do know that beingcompensated more often comes
(33:49):
with a.
Oftentimes it would have to beof someone of uh, maybe NDAs are
signed, have to be of someoneof maybe NDAs are signed.
There's a lot more that comesinto play.
The higher compensation thatyou're looking for oftentimes
and it really sometimes does notit's not worth it, like it's
(34:09):
not worth the headaches and allof the legalities that are extra
with it all.
So it is a very interesting.
It is an interesting topic.
We talk about it a lot.
You really have to do yourresearch and figure out what are
your core requirements.
Yeah, your core requirementsLike if that's not like an
(34:35):
absolute must.
Then you're going to be able toput yourself in a bigger, in a
bigger pool with other people,and there you know there won't
be as many restrictions.
I just want to throw that outthere.
I'm not saying that youshouldn't ask for what you think
that you should ask, but thereare things that come with
everything.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
That is more of a high profile client too, if you
think about that it's it's moreon that end, especially if
you're doing it first time andyou're asking for those Exactly,
but this did not sound like ahigh profile intended parent.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah Poor thing she was on Facebook, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
That's heartbreaking for the intended parents.
Even though I'm on thesurrogate side, my heart breaks
for the intended parents becausethey're throwing everything
into this.
Money doesn't grow on trees,it's, you know.
I wish everybody could have thefamily they wanted.
Do you know what I mean?
You didn't have to fight and gobroke for it.
(35:33):
Yeah, yeah.
We'll get your house All that.
It's hard to watch sometimes.
Not everybody's in thatposition of making $300,000 a
year that can afford this Right.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
On the other hand, I do, when I, you know, my initial
meet and greet with potentialintended parents.
I I do explain that location,um, where the surrogate lives.
There, there is variance interms of base compensation, um,
(36:11):
so you know a surrogate thatlives in a state that has
amazing surrogacy laws and nolaws that limit termination
Right there's a value to thatyou know, yeah, that's wild yes.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Can I ask you a question now that you just
brought that up?
I'm curious do you have a lotof surrogates in Texas or are
they elsewhere?
Because I know the laws havechanged there.
Laws have changed.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, I mean, we do Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, I'm just curious.
That's very interesting.
Is that a fear of intendedparents?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
That's a whole different ballgame now have, um,
(37:24):
they're very savvy to knowwhich states you know, um, not
only are the ideal, but onesthat are no good.
Like very common for me to hearfrom intended parents.
Yeah, you know, unfortunately.
We know that surrogacy laws inTexas are great in terms of
getting pre-birth orders, butyou know the limits that we have
(37:44):
in Texas on the ability toterminate a pregnancy.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
It's just for some intended parents, it's just it's
something they're not going torisk because they yeah, it's
their child and they have to bethe ones who decide yeah,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Um so yeah, it's one of those initial conversations
that um that we get into and I,I, I truly, when it comes to I
call them non-negotiables, likethey're.
They're truly.
There's no right and wrong toany of this.
(38:26):
Um, but you know, um, these arethings that I feel like people.
It's.
It's really helpful when Italked to intended parents and
surrogates and they're veryclear about certain requirements
.
So, yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Because you never think you're going to be faced
with any of that until you'refaced with it, and then the hard
decisions have to be made.
Or you signed a contract andyou're forced into it, thinking
it, then the hard decisions haveto be made.
Or you signed a contract andyou're forced into it, thinking
it would never, ever happen toyou.
And that's happened.
So that's scary.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I mean I will say in terms of um, and and back to the
discussion about genetictesting, um, you know, on on the
positive side, um transferringgenetically tested embryos.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It doesn't mean that you know if you get pregnant
that everything's going to befine, but I do feel like, as
much as you can, you're creatingthe healthiest baby possible.
And so, you know, um, there areintended parents that they've
said, you know, you've done thegenetic testing and we feel,
(39:48):
okay, we're still comfortable.
Um, so, yeah, um, I will sayintended parents who already
live in Texas.
Or, you know, I connect prettyfrequently with intended parents
who live in Louisiana, which isalso, you know, but it's, you
(40:11):
know, pretty close to Houston.
So if you're again in Texas orclose to Texas, I think it's
it's more of an option.
Um, but yeah, it's, it'sdefinitely been a transition.
So, yeah, yeah, oh do you haveum?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
do you have any advice for any intended parent
or anybody that's going to starttheir surrogacy journeys?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
And I see this every day, again, looking through the
Facebook posts do your homeworkbefore really getting in the
nitty gritty of matching,whether it's you know what kind
of agency you want.
The fertility clinic you'reworking with, um, I mean, it's
(41:04):
such a huge, huge part of it.
But feeling good about theclinic, um, escrow, feeling
comfortable with you know, andescrow, feeling comfortable with
you know, understanding how thefinancial part of this works,
(41:24):
what's you know, how it should,how, again, how I feel like the
process should work with thefinances in terms of you know
you talked to an agency thatdoes in-house escrow, so you
know.
Just again, doing your homeworkto know you know what some red
flags are and even things thataren't red flags, but what
(41:51):
you're looking for you know, interms of an agency, or you know
a clinic, or the process, cause,um, you know, once you do reach
out, things can go reallyquickly.
So, um, really quick.
So I never, you know, um, Ialways feel bad when things pop
(42:16):
up and it, you know, it feelslike well, you know, this
convert, you know you weresupposed to have this
conversation with this personand and that didn't happen.
And now we're here and I'm I'msorry about that, but and now
we're here and.
I'm I'm sorry about that, but umdoesn't get easy.
(42:37):
Yeah Right, just, you know, um,do your research and and take
your time and um don't be afraidto.
I feel like a lot of times thefirst tendency is just to you
know kind of, if there areissues that pop up, just to kind
(43:03):
of put them to the side.
And sometimes they're stillkind of in the back of the line,
and you know, I feel likethat's as the agency, like my
job is to give either side theopportunity to again come to us
and say, hey, this is on my mindand like what you know, what
(43:30):
can we do about this?
Or what solutions can we comeup with?
Or you know some, you know,this person told me this is that
correct?
And or what, asking me what Ithink about this, and so yeah,
(43:50):
don't let it fester.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Be right to address the situation.
It could be something littlethat snuggles and it's creating
all kinds of problems ratherthan dealing with it.
It was just a misunderstandingor a miscommunication.
It happens all the time.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
And there just has to be next level of communication
during the Agreed Any surrogacyjourney, because it takes a lot
of people to and you're in avery intimate setting and you
really are.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
you become part of each other's lives very, very
quickly.
It's quicker than dating Likeyou're a lot more intimate, a
lot more intimate, yeah, andthen it's over, like, like you
know, it doesn't not.
You know what I'm saying?
The main process is over.
There could be the relationship, but it's a weird dynamic and
you have to learn how tonavigate it.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, exactly, wow, and having again, you know, a
third neutral party kind ofthere to kind of mediate or
bounce things off of or whatnot.
I do think there is value inthat.
(45:00):
For sure, um, some people aresuper comfortable with you know
the intended parents andsurrogates can have those
difficult conversations, but Ifeel like I like to think that
having a third party helpsmaintain the relation, you know
(45:20):
the good relationships betweenthe surrogate and the intended
parents, cause then there's athird party kind of out there,
kind of being the setting theboundaries, delivering the hard
truths right, talking peopledown.
Yeah, yeah, if that makes sense,sense, it totally makes sense,
(45:42):
it makes perfect sense yeah, soso yeah, that, those third off
the top of my head, those are myyep, it's good advice yeah,
great advice, thank you wow,well, I just, I just have to say
your story is beautiful.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Carrie speaks volumes of you.
So thank you, carrie, forletting us know who the agency
was, because every time she'salways positive about you.
Thank you, thank you, thank youAbsolutely.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Where can people?
Speaker 2 (46:14):
find you like reach you.
Thank you absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Where can people find you likereach out to you if they're
interested?
I know you.
I know you do small amount ofcases but you know yeah,
definitely.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Well, you can always reach out um via um.
Our website is um.
It's long.
It'spayingitforwardsurrogacycom.
And also you can email me atBeth at
payingitforwardsurrogacycom.
Okay, awesome, those are thebest ways.
(46:53):
We're also on Instagram,payingitforwardsurrogacy and on
Facebookpayingitforwardsurrogacy.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
That name wasn't taken.
You got to use it because itwasn't taken.
It's an awesome name, love it.
Like I said, it's so cool.
Everything just like came backfull circle.
It's just, it makes it such.
You're such a cool person, butjust the whole thing.
And then you named your agencypaying it forward, like wait a
minute.
So just all really good, goodvibes.
(47:19):
I love it, thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk
with us.
Thank you both.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
This has been awesome .
I'm sorry I had mic issues.
I will correct that next time.
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
This is lovely.
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
We appreciate yours, thank you so much, thank you so
much.
Have a great evening.
Thank you, you guys too.
Take care, good luck.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Wow, that was phenomenal.
Oh my God, that's the way to doit.
I don't know.
She was an intended parent.
She opened an agency and thenshe hired a surrogate, like wait
a minute Like so cool, shedidn't just hire any surrogate,
she hired Carrie.
She hired Carrie, I know shehired Carrie, not just any
surrogate yeah, who justflawlessly does surrogacy?
(48:08):
Just amazing.
That small heck.
Yeah, I love it.
I mean she may, she may decideto get a little bit bigger, but
she, I would want to work withher, like right.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
well, you know that things are going to get answered
.
You know that you're going tobe taken care of.
You know that you're going tobe seen.
I know you're going to bewatched over.
You know that you're going tobe trusted, protected, all the
things, because you're not goingto get lost in the big pond.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
And she's so passionate about Like she look
at all the things she's beentrained in.
She could have done numerousthings and she decided to come
back to this.
It's so important.
Yeah, I love it.
So thank you for being with us.
It was lovely, lovely talk.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Amazing.
Thank you so much, beth.
If anybody has any questions orstories they would like to
share, please feel free to reachout to us on Instagram at Stop
Period Sit Period Surrogate, oryou can email us at Stop Period
Sit Period Surrogate at gmailcom.
Speaker 4 (48:58):
It's been another edition of Stop Sit Surrogate
with Kennedy and Ellen.
Thanks everybody, bye, bye.
If you enjoyed this podcast, besure to give us a like and
subscribe.
Also, check out the link to ourYouTube channel in the
description and be sure to alsocheck out our children's book my
Mom has Superpowers, sold onAmazon and Etsy.
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