June 10, 2024 • 22 mins
The other day, Donald Kendal, director of the Socialism Research Center at The Heartland Institute, joined The Shaun Thompson Show to talk about the European Union's new ESG scheme. The Corporate Sustainability Due Diligence Directive would mandate a whole host of ESG-like guidelines on businesses and industries in the EU. More importantly, because of the way the legislation was crafted, businesses, both large and small, here in the United States would be subject to the CSDDD mandates, too. Have a listen.
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Episode Transcript
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Jim Lakely (00:00):
This is the Heartland Daily Podcast. The
other day, Donald Kendall,director of the Socialism
Research Center at the HeartlandInstitute, joined the Sean
Thompson show to talk about theEuropean Union's new ESG scheme.
(00:20):
The corporate sustainability duediligence directive would
mandate a whole host of ESG likeguidelines on businesses and
industries in the EU. Moreimportantly, because of the way
the legislation was crafted,businesses both large and small
here in the United States wouldalso be subject to the mandates.
This is pretty troubling.
Have a listen.
Announcer (00:43):
From the streets of Melrose Park to the trading
floor of the Merc, he's foughtfor every dollar he's ever
earned. And now, with personalliberty and our system of
capitalism under assault inAmerica, he's here to seize back
our rights from the governmentwith a cigar in one hand and a
copy of the declaration ofindependence in the other. He's
(01:05):
Shawn Thompson, and this is theShawn Thompson Show.
Shaun Thompson (01:16):
He's the deputy director of Heartland's
Socialism Research Center since2023. He's the host of
Heartland's In the Tank podcast.He's also been a host on
Heartland's stopping socialismTV. He's been a contributor to 2
of Glenn Beck's books. He's beena friend of mine on the show for
years now, and I love having himon every time.
He's Donald Kendall. Donald, howare you?
Donald Kendal (01:38):
You know, I'm doing, I'm doing pretty good
considering the subject matterthat we're gonna be talking
about. But, you know, I'mhanging in there.
Shaun Thompson (01:44):
Well, I'll tell you, every time I have you on,
we talk about difficult subjectmatter. In fact, it was you that
talked about the people'swillingness to cheat in an
election. And I was thinkingabout you earlier today when I
was watching, MSNBC, Microsoft,NBC. They were talking about Ed
Martin who, was appointed to theRNC, and they were slandering
(02:06):
him because he was part of theStop the Steal campaign. And
they kept making it seem soremote that people would think
not 81,000,000 morons were dumbenough to vote for Joe Biden.
I mean, it's still somethingthat it's fascinating when you
watch the innuendo and theintimidation to buy the lies of
the government. And it remindsme of everything you fight you
you warn us about. This is theconcept of propaganda and
(02:28):
socialism, normalizingservitude. I mean, that's really
what we're up against, isn't it?
Donald Kendal (02:33):
No. Absolutely. And and you know, as much as I
do or probably anyone listeningto this, the show that as soon
as the narrative is crafted, nomatter what evidence comes out
to the contrary contrary ofthat, it's not in these
people's, ability to just say,you know what? We were wrong.
No.
They have to stick to thenarrative, time and time again,
(02:53):
no matter what news comes out tothe contrary. And I think
another example of that issomething I was just talking
about on the on the podcastyesterday was this lab leak
theory, with the coronavirus.It's just like, again, all these
reports come out. Like, nope.Narrative.
It was from the wet market.Someone was eating bat soup.
Shaun Thompson (03:11):
And it's amazing because we as as human beings
and I think this is reallyparticularly a problem of of of
winners in a society. We wannasolve the problem. Right? So
we'll almost forget the originsof the problem and then work on
the solution. And that's a fatalflaw because you forget how how
offended you should be thatwe've been victims of all of
this this orchestrated, thisdeliberate failure, collapse,
(03:37):
fear mongering, and fraud tobring us to this position
knowing that we'll work onsolving it rather than ripping
it out.
And nobody, or no no entitydescribes that more than this
European socialism we'reconstantly faced with,
constantly dragged down. It usedto be we we were opposite. We
rejected these ideas. I thinkwe're very similar to the
European socialism that'scollapsing in Europe and we're
(03:59):
ignoring. Correct?
Donald Kendal (04:01):
Yeah. Yeah. It always just kinda seems like
they're just a few steps ahead.You know, we can kind of look at
that whole continent as just acanary in the coal mine when it
comes to us. But it just seemslike, you know, when it comes to
some of these things that thatcanary that that the alarm that
might come from the canarydropping dead in the coal mine
might be a little bit, too shortof notice for, you know, how
(04:21):
quickly some of this stuff ismoving here.
But you're referencing, thisthis issue that I think is gonna
be increasingly more important,in the next, I don't know,
several months, if not, year orso. So people should start
wrapping their head around thisright now. So I've been on your
show a handful of times over thepast, I don't know, years, I
guess, talking about ESG, thescheme that's advocated by the
(04:44):
latest last place with, like,the World Economic Forum. I I
assume that most of the peoplelistening to this, show are
familiar with ESG, at thispoint, but basically a corporate
social scorecard system thatforces companies to adhere to
metrics that champion a wholehost of different social justice
causes from diversity, equity,and inclusion to climate change,
(05:07):
the eradication of reliableenergy sources, and failure to
adhere to the ESG metricsresults in these businesses
losing access to capital loans,other banking services. It could
result in them, beingpolitically disfavored when it
comes to government contracts,stimulus projects, bailouts, or
any other things that
Shaun Thompson (05:26):
could go to the pandemic. It's forcing companies
and businesses to accept the lieof the eco Nazi. That's really
what it is. Right? Buy the scamsand, you know, it's it's just
it's it's it's really a afascistic tool in that in the
quiver.
Right?
Donald Kendal (05:41):
Right. And I've always said, I'm sure I've said
it on your show before, that atbest, ESG is the biggest crony
system ever devised by man, andat worst, it's a fascist system
that governments and the rulingclass could use to control the
economy and society byextension. So and again, I've
I've talked about this on yourshow before and there has been
pushback across, you know, awhole number of, different
(06:04):
levels, you know, some statestaking actions, some investment
firms kinda pulling out of thisstuff. Seems like weekly, the,
the veneer of ESG is kind ofwearing. Even even from, like,
the Klaus Schwab's and the theLarry thinks of the world that
kinda wanna run away from thispoliticized term.
But that's in America. What'shappening in Europe now is this
new thing. So in Europe, theyhave an ESG like system that's
(06:28):
called the corporatesustainability due diligence
directive. Around around our,office, we just call it the EU's
ESG system. But, this is thiswas just after a long political
battle that they almost lost.
They got this passed. So nowthey have this established by
law in in the European Union.It'll go into effect. It'll be,
(06:52):
like, worked into the actuallaws or whatever in the next
couple of months. It'll bephased in over the next couple
of years.
But the difference between this,and what I've been railing
against on your show for thelast couple of years is that,
you know, there's massive levelsof coercion, in the United
States version of it. But in theu e, the EU, it's flat out
(07:12):
mandated. This is just by law.You have to do this sort of
stuff. And, and then, you know,like, you might hear this and
say, whatever.
Europe is Europe. You know, wefought a war 250 years ago so
that we don't have to care aboutwhat happens in Europe. But the
problem is that the way thatthis law is written is that it's
gonna have massive influenceover the way that business is
(07:32):
done here in the United Statesand basically around the world.
Because you know how craftythese people are when they Well
when they do these laws. Right?
Jim Lakely (07:41):
Before we get to the rest of this podcast, I wanted
to let you know about 2fantastic live podcasts
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(08:01):
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(08:23):
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Shaun Thompson (09:00):
Well, what's infuriating me is that we just
covered the story of Joe Manchinwho who was instrumental in
passing that bull dung law ofthe backdoor cap and trade. And
he had Janet Yellen on in thecommittee hearing, and he caught
her manipulating the bill asalready it was abusive. They
made it more abusive becausethis is the problem with these
(09:21):
laws. There are thousands ofpages written with ambiguity,
but, however, it cedes powerfrom the representatives to the
bureaucrat whores like JanetYellen. And once it's in their
fat little hands, it's overwith.
They could do what they wantwith it. And the people are
victims over and over, and the1,000,000 of dollars are stolen,
and the businesses go out ofbusiness. And by the time you
figure out what happened, it'stoo late. Right?
Donald Kendal (09:43):
Right. No. Yeah. And and you're actually kind of
explaining, or describing howthis law kind of came into
being. I I just I mentioned howthere was kind of a big,
political fight over there in inin Europe over all of this.
And it almost went down inflames. But the last minute,
they made some tweaks to thelanguage, and they made the
threshold for businesses thatwould be affected a little bit
(10:03):
higher. So that way, you know,less, smaller businesses would
be affected by this. But thedevil is in the details with all
of this. So, yes, there's gonnabe the the mass the bigger
corporations are gonna beaffected.
But it's all of the companiesthat are upstream and downstream
in the supply chain or the chainof activities of these
corporations are also gonna beheld to the same standard. So
(10:26):
you could just be a 2 bitoperation that is doing some
sort of business with one ofthese European Union companies,
and you're gonna be on the hookfor these same sort of
standards. And not only that,but American businesses
established headquarters here inthe United States that have an
operation in the European Unionwill also be affected by this.
(10:47):
So we're talking Amazon, Apple,Google, Ford, McDonald's,
basically, any company thatyou've heard of is gonna be
affected by this. And again,also, their upstream and
downstream chain of activitysupply chain.
So you might just be a, a potatofarmer in Idaho that's selling
potatoes to McDonald's, so thatthey can make their fries. And
(11:09):
since McDonald's is doingbusiness in the European Union
and are now affected by theselaws, you as a potato farmer in
Idaho are gonna be affected bythese laws. So that's how
insidious this whole thing is,and we're looking right down the
barrel of the gun of this.
Shaun Thompson (11:23):
Well, what's so aggravating is that, number 1,
the premise of what they're whatthey're telling us is a lie. The
entire premise of what oil isand what natural gas, and the
the denial that it is organic,and the the reality is the
government knows that that's whythey blew up Nord Stream 2.
That's why they continue to fundwars. I mean, after all, if they
really wanted to stop thebiggest so called polluter,
(11:47):
they'd shut down all themilitaries, wouldn't they?
Donald Kendal (11:49):
Oh, sure.
Shaun Thompson (11:50):
I mean, this is something that gets lost in the
argument. You're gonna shut downMcDonald's or you're gonna
you're gonna bother some mom andpop restaurant, and you're gonna
charge fees to throw out garbagethat all goes to the same place.
But the reality is what thisgovernment has done under Joe
Biden in just foreign policy,just the just the the warfare
omission of their so calledpollutants, that's enough to
(12:11):
kill the earth 3 times over bytheir fraud flawed science. Why
do we always give up the premiseof the argument of everything
you've concluded is built onwrong? Everything.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Every Oh,
Donald Kendal (12:21):
it's fair.
Shaun Thompson (12:21):
Schematic you have. And it's your it's you. I
I I mean, Heartland Institute,you've published over and over
and over again how thebastardization of c02 and all
the rest of it. But for somereason, they keep building on
the lie, and we don't tear itdown. So I'm wondering, have you
come to the conclusion thatthese companies should just stop
sending things, stop, in in inreally being involved in
(12:43):
capitalism with Europe?
If you're gonna do this, howabout this? There is no Amazon
in Europe. Just shut it down.Why doesn't Bezos just go
offensive?
Donald Kendal (12:51):
Yeah. Well, you know, I I I would probably I'd
wager to guess that if I were togo on Amazon's, main websites
and go through their about ussection. There's gonna be all
sorts of passages talking abouthow they care so much for the
planet and social responsibilityof adhering to these same sorts
of things. So, I I'm notentirely sure that they would do
(13:11):
that, but you're absolutelyright that, these companies are
basically seeding some level ofsovereignty to to, you know,
kowtow to these mandates thatare that are being passed by
supranational governments on theother side of the world. And and
what this really does this isthis might be the most insidious
part of this whole thing, ifthat's even possible.
(13:33):
But, thing? It's basically oh,yeah. Absolutely.
Shaun Thompson (13:37):
It's Spectre. It's Spectre, and I'm not James
Bond anymore. Go ahead.
Donald Kendal (13:42):
Right. But this, this basically opens, this opens
the door to every every, like,business because the
globalization of all of thisstuff, The intermingling of all
these different firms across theworld, like I said, throughout
the supply chain and all ofthat. Basically puts everyone at
the discretion of thesebureaucrats, in the in the
(14:04):
European Union to level outthese penalties that could be as
high as 5% of their revenue, ifthey're found in violation of
any of these things. Right? Soyou're these these companies,
like I said, from the from thepotato farmer in Idaho all the
way up to Amazon, everyone isgonna be liable to these these
different mandates.
But you might think, like, well,that's that's that's gonna be
(14:24):
hard to enforce. How are theygonna enforce that? That's the
genius of it. Right? Becauseit's just selective enforcement.
They get to choose who they wantto pursue with some of these
things because you know that,you know, what's up to, upstream
and downstream of a lot ofthese, big corporations around
the world is China. And do youthink the European Union is ever
(14:44):
gonna suggest levying finesagainst some firms from China? I
doubt it.
Shaun Thompson (14:48):
Well, what's amazing
Donald Kendal (14:50):
all very subjective, and it's all just,
you know, at the discretion ofthese bureaucrats.
Shaun Thompson (14:54):
I think what we need to focus on is the fact
that these bureaucracies andthese agencies are incentivized
to fine businesses and fineAmerican companies and to
bankrupt them. And and and theother part that goes unmentioned
is they keep a portion of thefine. The EPA keeps 50% of every
fine. They just put it in theirbudget. So you've got a
government entity that is thatis in the business of extorting
(15:15):
and and giving you a penalty.
They don't care if you stoppolluting to their definition.
You just have to pay to pollute.And that's something that always
gets lost. And I'm wondering,isn't it time for us to really
go at the core of the argumentitself and educate the people?
Because these kids today thatare brought up in these
indoctrination camps that arecalled school, they don't
realize that all of theirmetrics and all of their and all
(15:37):
of their schemes are based onrecord keeping from 18/80.
The we this country and theworld has only kept weather
patterns and temperature recordsfrom 18/80. The earth is
1,000,000,000 of years old. Wejust glaze over the fact that
the fundamental foundation oftheir fraud science is just that
(15:58):
fraud. They have no schematic.They have no real data.
If you inputted this in a systemof of computing, if you gave it
to AI, they wouldn't come upwith the conclusions that
politicians and no minds.Because what they've managed to
do is cultivate a religion.We're not arguing facts. We're
not arguing data. We're notarguing principles.
(16:18):
We're arguing a religion. Andit's funny because those people
in that religion, like thosesame people who dress up like
it's the 7th century, they don'teven look at the what happens to
the money once it goes into thesystem. They don't care. So how
do we do it? What's the smartestway?
I mean, you spend time. You'veyou've contributed on books. I
really do think it's time toreopen the the original promise
of the argument and prove me onthe shadow of a doubt. You're
(16:41):
making it all up. You have nodata to have any kind of scale.
Not only that, you have noscience that participates in the
fact that it is not a fossilproduct. It is organic. It is a
product of the earth of which asa people, we've only gone 7
miles, 7 and a half miles intodown from the surface anyway. We
don't know anything when itcomes to yours, do we?
Donald Kendal (17:03):
Yeah. No. You're absolutely right. And you're
describing, like, 75% of whatthe Heartland Institute does on
a daily basis is is tacklingthose core arguments that kind
of underpin all of theseschemes. And basically, over the
past, I don't know, 50, 75years, maybe even longer, maybe
like the the days of and maybe alittle bit more recent than Karl
Marx.
(17:23):
But this whole thing has beenpinned on this idea that if we
keep pursuing this capitalisticsystem, we're gonna destroy the
planet. Before that, they wouldsuggest that if we do all of
this capitalism and stuff, thatpeople are gonna get poorer and
poorer, and they're gonna beexploited increasingly by the
owner class and all of that sortof thing. But then as people
started accruing more benefitsbenefits, like, the Marxists
(17:46):
knew that they weren't gonna beable to sell that, that point
anymore. So what they had to dois just take their whole scheme
and attach it to some other diresituation, and that was the idea
of climate change. We'redestroying the planet.
We're all gonna be, you know,our backyard's gonna be filled
with garbage before you know it.And that's what we've been doing
for at least the past 50 years.But the Heartland Institute, we
(18:06):
are tackling all of thosethings, basically, on a daily
basis.
Shaun Thompson (18:09):
No. I know you are.
Donald Kendal (18:10):
The most recent project that we started is is a
series of videos on YouTube.They're really short, like, 2 to
3 minutes. Each one of them,tackling one of these specific
issues having to do with thescientific consensus or the idea
of droughts or floods or, youknow, intensifying hurricanes,
all of these just two minutethings that kinda break down
(18:31):
these
Shaun Thompson (18:33):
arguments. Did you talk with lions and tigers
and bears, oh my? No? Thatthat's gonna be the last one, I
think.
Donald Kendal (18:36):
I love that one. Because
Shaun Thompson (18:40):
do you know when you look at what happened under
the Trump administration priorto the pandemic, when you look
at those 3 years, what he wasable to achieve just in that one
sector by breaking all of thethe bands that bound us to an
incompetent, corrupt, climateaccord in Paris and the rest of
it. He was able to drive theprice of oil, which is the key
(19:02):
common denominator ofeverything, we've already
discussed that, into levels thatwe didn't see since before
September 11. And that goes bythe wayside. And now it's normal
to have it at $80, $78. Theythink it's normal, and they
don't realize this is a productthat is so abundant.
It should be $8 a barrel the wayit was in 19 58 because there's
(19:23):
far more of it than there was in1958. And this is something that
is always lost. And I think ifwe don't go back to that
original premise of everythingwe're dragged into the deep
water of fantasy. And they couldkeep pretending it's the warmest
year, not knowing that number 1,it was far warmer in the 1800,
far warmer in 1912 and 1933. Butmore importantly, it's all a
(19:47):
lie.
They tell it to us every timethere's a Democrat in office to
get away with it. Right?
Donald Kendal (19:51):
Oh, yeah. No. Absolutely. And yeah. I mean,
you brought up the pandemic, andthat was just, like, enough of a
social disruption for them toreally kick start the whole
great reset movement that I'vethat, you know, I've been on
this show talking about.
The ESG system, all of this waswas based on this idea that our
our system is in tatters so wecan build a new better one.
That's the mindset of all ofthis. That's that's the whole
(20:14):
elitist mindset for every everytopic. It it goes back to the,
the idea of don't want a crisisgo to waste sort of concept. So
So yeah.
This is this is all, all theworld view that we've been
pushing against at the SocialismResearch Center at the Heartland
Institute for the last, I don'tknow, 2 years, something like
that.
Shaun Thompson (20:32):
So my prediction is obviously after this European
tour of, a weekend at Bernie'swith this idiot some call
president, They're gonna replacehim with Newsom, and I say it'll
happen around the 4th July. Youhave any thoughts on that?
Donald Kendal (20:44):
Okay. So I've heard, some pretty interesting
theories about this. One havingto do with the fact that the the
Trump versus Biden debate isgonna be, like, late June, which
is by far the earliest that oneof these presidential debates
has occurred. Yeah. And I'veheard that, that this might be
their kind of their last, ditcheffort to make Biden work.
(21:05):
And if he fumbles on stage, theystill have a couple of months
before the Democraticconvention, which is actually
taking place later in the yearthan most Democratic
conventions. So it's verypossible. I'm not sure I'm
putting my money on it, but Ithink it's possible.
Shaun Thompson (21:20):
Alright. Well, he better wear dark pants. I got
$5 says he doesn't make it tothe end of the debate, but I
look forward to talking to youafterwards when we meet our new
overlords. In the meantime,Donald Kendall, Heartland
Institute, thank you so much foreverything. Where do you prefer
they go and keep an eye on you?
Donald Kendal (21:34):
Yeah. Heartland.org for sure. The In
The Tank podcast is now onHeartland's, YouTube channel. So
if you just look up HeartlandInstitute on YouTube, you'll
you'll find our show.
Shaun Thompson (21:44):
Alright. I would be very flattered with lions and
tigers and bears, Omai. Ipromise I won't sue you.
Donald Kendal (21:49):
Deal? Sounds sounds good.
Shaun Thompson (21:50):
Thank you. We'll be back with
Speaker 1 (21:51):
your calls and comments.
This is the Heartland Daily Podcast. The
other day, Donald Kendall,director of the Socialism
Research Center at the HeartlandInstitute, joined the Sean
Thompson show to talk about theEuropean Union's new ESG scheme.
(00:20):
The corporate sustainability duediligence directive would
mandate a whole host of ESG likeguidelines on businesses and
industries in the EU. Moreimportantly, because of the way
the legislation was crafted,businesses both large and small
here in the United States wouldalso be subject to the mandates.
This is pretty troubling.
Have a listen.
Announcer (00:43):
From the streets of Melrose Park to the trading
floor of the Merc, he's foughtfor every dollar he's ever
earned. And now, with personalliberty and our system of
capitalism under assault inAmerica, he's here to seize back
our rights from the governmentwith a cigar in one hand and a
copy of the declaration ofindependence in the other. He's
(01:05):
Shawn Thompson, and this is theShawn Thompson Show.
Shaun Thompson (01:16):
He's the deputy director of Heartland's
Socialism Research Center since2023. He's the host of
Heartland's In the Tank podcast.He's also been a host on
Heartland's stopping socialismTV. He's been a contributor to 2
of Glenn Beck's books. He's beena friend of mine on the show for
years now, and I love having himon every time.
He's Donald Kendall. Donald, howare you?
Donald Kendal (01:38):
You know, I'm doing, I'm doing pretty good
considering the subject matterthat we're gonna be talking
about. But, you know, I'mhanging in there.
Shaun Thompson (01:44):
Well, I'll tell you, every time I have you on,
we talk about difficult subjectmatter. In fact, it was you that
talked about the people'swillingness to cheat in an
election. And I was thinkingabout you earlier today when I
was watching, MSNBC, Microsoft,NBC. They were talking about Ed
Martin who, was appointed to theRNC, and they were slandering
(02:06):
him because he was part of theStop the Steal campaign. And
they kept making it seem soremote that people would think
not 81,000,000 morons were dumbenough to vote for Joe Biden.
I mean, it's still somethingthat it's fascinating when you
watch the innuendo and theintimidation to buy the lies of
the government. And it remindsme of everything you fight you
you warn us about. This is theconcept of propaganda and
(02:28):
socialism, normalizingservitude. I mean, that's really
what we're up against, isn't it?
Donald Kendal (02:33):
No. Absolutely. And and you know, as much as I
do or probably anyone listeningto this, the show that as soon
as the narrative is crafted, nomatter what evidence comes out
to the contrary contrary ofthat, it's not in these
people's, ability to just say,you know what? We were wrong.
No.
They have to stick to thenarrative, time and time again,
(02:53):
no matter what news comes out tothe contrary. And I think
another example of that issomething I was just talking
about on the on the podcastyesterday was this lab leak
theory, with the coronavirus.It's just like, again, all these
reports come out. Like, nope.Narrative.
It was from the wet market.Someone was eating bat soup.
Shaun Thompson (03:11):
And it's amazing because we as as human beings
and I think this is reallyparticularly a problem of of of
winners in a society. We wannasolve the problem. Right? So
we'll almost forget the originsof the problem and then work on
the solution. And that's a fatalflaw because you forget how how
offended you should be thatwe've been victims of all of
this this orchestrated, thisdeliberate failure, collapse,
(03:37):
fear mongering, and fraud tobring us to this position
knowing that we'll work onsolving it rather than ripping
it out.
And nobody, or no no entitydescribes that more than this
European socialism we'reconstantly faced with,
constantly dragged down. It usedto be we we were opposite. We
rejected these ideas. I thinkwe're very similar to the
European socialism that'scollapsing in Europe and we're
(03:59):
ignoring. Correct?
Donald Kendal (04:01):
Yeah. Yeah. It always just kinda seems like
they're just a few steps ahead.You know, we can kind of look at
that whole continent as just acanary in the coal mine when it
comes to us. But it just seemslike, you know, when it comes to
some of these things that thatcanary that that the alarm that
might come from the canarydropping dead in the coal mine
might be a little bit, too shortof notice for, you know, how
(04:21):
quickly some of this stuff ismoving here.
But you're referencing, thisthis issue that I think is gonna
be increasingly more important,in the next, I don't know,
several months, if not, year orso. So people should start
wrapping their head around thisright now. So I've been on your
show a handful of times over thepast, I don't know, years, I
guess, talking about ESG, thescheme that's advocated by the
(04:44):
latest last place with, like,the World Economic Forum. I I
assume that most of the peoplelistening to this, show are
familiar with ESG, at thispoint, but basically a corporate
social scorecard system thatforces companies to adhere to
metrics that champion a wholehost of different social justice
causes from diversity, equity,and inclusion to climate change,
(05:07):
the eradication of reliableenergy sources, and failure to
adhere to the ESG metricsresults in these businesses
losing access to capital loans,other banking services. It could
result in them, beingpolitically disfavored when it
comes to government contracts,stimulus projects, bailouts, or
any other things that
Shaun Thompson (05:26):
could go to the pandemic. It's forcing companies
and businesses to accept the lieof the eco Nazi. That's really
what it is. Right? Buy the scamsand, you know, it's it's just
it's it's it's really a afascistic tool in that in the
quiver.
Right?
Donald Kendal (05:41):
Right. And I've always said, I'm sure I've said
it on your show before, that atbest, ESG is the biggest crony
system ever devised by man, andat worst, it's a fascist system
that governments and the rulingclass could use to control the
economy and society byextension. So and again, I've
I've talked about this on yourshow before and there has been
pushback across, you know, awhole number of, different
(06:04):
levels, you know, some statestaking actions, some investment
firms kinda pulling out of thisstuff. Seems like weekly, the,
the veneer of ESG is kind ofwearing. Even even from, like,
the Klaus Schwab's and the theLarry thinks of the world that
kinda wanna run away from thispoliticized term.
But that's in America. What'shappening in Europe now is this
new thing. So in Europe, theyhave an ESG like system that's
(06:28):
called the corporatesustainability due diligence
directive. Around around our,office, we just call it the EU's
ESG system. But, this is thiswas just after a long political
battle that they almost lost.
They got this passed. So nowthey have this established by
law in in the European Union.It'll go into effect. It'll be,
(06:52):
like, worked into the actuallaws or whatever in the next
couple of months. It'll bephased in over the next couple
of years.
But the difference between this,and what I've been railing
against on your show for thelast couple of years is that,
you know, there's massive levelsof coercion, in the United
States version of it. But in theu e, the EU, it's flat out
(07:12):
mandated. This is just by law.You have to do this sort of
stuff. And, and then, you know,like, you might hear this and
say, whatever.
Europe is Europe. You know, wefought a war 250 years ago so
that we don't have to care aboutwhat happens in Europe. But the
problem is that the way thatthis law is written is that it's
gonna have massive influenceover the way that business is
(07:32):
done here in the United Statesand basically around the world.
Because you know how craftythese people are when they Well
when they do these laws. Right?
Jim Lakely (07:41):
Before we get to the rest of this podcast, I wanted
to let you know about 2fantastic live podcasts
Heartland produces every week.We'd love for you to join us
every Thursday at 1 PM EST, noonCST live for our flagship in the
tank podcast. You can watch onthe stopping socialism TV
channel on YouTube where you canparticipate in the show in the
(08:01):
chat with other fans and alsoask questions that we'll address
on the air and put up on thescreen. And every Friday, also
at 1 PM EST and noon CST, youcan go to Heartland's main
YouTube channel. Just search forthe Heartland Institute on
YouTube for the new ClimateRealism Show.
Heartland's climate team ofAnthony Watts, Sterling Burnett,
and Linnea Lukin cover the crazyclimate news of the week, debunk
(08:23):
mainstream media myths about theso called climate crisis, dig
into energy policy, and muchmore. The show often features
guests that include some of theleading climate scientists and
energy policy experts anywherein the world. There is no show
like it, so become regular liveviewers of both of these
programs if you are interestedin smart, lively, fun, and
(08:44):
interactive conversations. Wehope to see you there every
Thursday Friday afternoons at 1PM Eastern and Noon Central at
the stopping socialism TV andthe Heartless Stute channels on
YouTube. Oh, yeah.
We're also on Rumble. See youthere.
Shaun Thompson (09:00):
Well, what's infuriating me is that we just
covered the story of Joe Manchinwho who was instrumental in
passing that bull dung law ofthe backdoor cap and trade. And
he had Janet Yellen on in thecommittee hearing, and he caught
her manipulating the bill asalready it was abusive. They
made it more abusive becausethis is the problem with these
(09:21):
laws. There are thousands ofpages written with ambiguity,
but, however, it cedes powerfrom the representatives to the
bureaucrat whores like JanetYellen. And once it's in their
fat little hands, it's overwith.
They could do what they wantwith it. And the people are
victims over and over, and the1,000,000 of dollars are stolen,
and the businesses go out ofbusiness. And by the time you
figure out what happened, it'stoo late. Right?
Donald Kendal (09:43):
Right. No. Yeah. And and you're actually kind of
explaining, or describing howthis law kind of came into
being. I I just I mentioned howthere was kind of a big,
political fight over there in inin Europe over all of this.
And it almost went down inflames. But the last minute,
they made some tweaks to thelanguage, and they made the
threshold for businesses thatwould be affected a little bit
(10:03):
higher. So that way, you know,less, smaller businesses would
be affected by this. But thedevil is in the details with all
of this. So, yes, there's gonnabe the the mass the bigger
corporations are gonna beaffected.
But it's all of the companiesthat are upstream and downstream
in the supply chain or the chainof activities of these
corporations are also gonna beheld to the same standard. So
(10:26):
you could just be a 2 bitoperation that is doing some
sort of business with one ofthese European Union companies,
and you're gonna be on the hookfor these same sort of
standards. And not only that,but American businesses
established headquarters here inthe United States that have an
operation in the European Unionwill also be affected by this.
(10:47):
So we're talking Amazon, Apple,Google, Ford, McDonald's,
basically, any company thatyou've heard of is gonna be
affected by this. And again,also, their upstream and
downstream chain of activitysupply chain.
So you might just be a, a potatofarmer in Idaho that's selling
potatoes to McDonald's, so thatthey can make their fries. And
(11:09):
since McDonald's is doingbusiness in the European Union
and are now affected by theselaws, you as a potato farmer in
Idaho are gonna be affected bythese laws. So that's how
insidious this whole thing is,and we're looking right down the
barrel of the gun of this.
Shaun Thompson (11:23):
Well, what's so aggravating is that, number 1,
the premise of what they're whatthey're telling us is a lie. The
entire premise of what oil isand what natural gas, and the
the denial that it is organic,and the the reality is the
government knows that that's whythey blew up Nord Stream 2.
That's why they continue to fundwars. I mean, after all, if they
really wanted to stop thebiggest so called polluter,
(11:47):
they'd shut down all themilitaries, wouldn't they?
Donald Kendal (11:49):
Oh, sure.
Shaun Thompson (11:50):
I mean, this is something that gets lost in the
argument. You're gonna shut downMcDonald's or you're gonna
you're gonna bother some mom andpop restaurant, and you're gonna
charge fees to throw out garbagethat all goes to the same place.
But the reality is what thisgovernment has done under Joe
Biden in just foreign policy,just the just the the warfare
omission of their so calledpollutants, that's enough to
(12:11):
kill the earth 3 times over bytheir fraud flawed science. Why
do we always give up the premiseof the argument of everything
you've concluded is built onwrong? Everything.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Every Oh,
Donald Kendal (12:21):
it's fair.
Shaun Thompson (12:21):
Schematic you have. And it's your it's you. I
I I mean, Heartland Institute,you've published over and over
and over again how thebastardization of c02 and all
the rest of it. But for somereason, they keep building on
the lie, and we don't tear itdown. So I'm wondering, have you
come to the conclusion thatthese companies should just stop
sending things, stop, in in inreally being involved in
(12:43):
capitalism with Europe?
If you're gonna do this, howabout this? There is no Amazon
in Europe. Just shut it down.Why doesn't Bezos just go
offensive?
Donald Kendal (12:51):
Yeah. Well, you know, I I I would probably I'd
wager to guess that if I were togo on Amazon's, main websites
and go through their about ussection. There's gonna be all
sorts of passages talking abouthow they care so much for the
planet and social responsibilityof adhering to these same sorts
of things. So, I I'm notentirely sure that they would do
(13:11):
that, but you're absolutelyright that, these companies are
basically seeding some level ofsovereignty to to, you know,
kowtow to these mandates thatare that are being passed by
supranational governments on theother side of the world. And and
what this really does this isthis might be the most insidious
part of this whole thing, ifthat's even possible.
(13:33):
But, thing? It's basically oh,yeah. Absolutely.
Shaun Thompson (13:37):
It's Spectre. It's Spectre, and I'm not James
Bond anymore. Go ahead.
Donald Kendal (13:42):
Right. But this, this basically opens, this opens
the door to every every, like,business because the
globalization of all of thisstuff, The intermingling of all
these different firms across theworld, like I said, throughout
the supply chain and all ofthat. Basically puts everyone at
the discretion of thesebureaucrats, in the in the
(14:04):
European Union to level outthese penalties that could be as
high as 5% of their revenue, ifthey're found in violation of
any of these things. Right? Soyou're these these companies,
like I said, from the from thepotato farmer in Idaho all the
way up to Amazon, everyone isgonna be liable to these these
different mandates.
But you might think, like, well,that's that's that's gonna be
(14:24):
hard to enforce. How are theygonna enforce that? That's the
genius of it. Right? Becauseit's just selective enforcement.
They get to choose who they wantto pursue with some of these
things because you know that,you know, what's up to, upstream
and downstream of a lot ofthese, big corporations around
the world is China. And do youthink the European Union is ever
(14:44):
gonna suggest levying finesagainst some firms from China? I
doubt it.
Shaun Thompson (14:48):
Well, what's amazing
Donald Kendal (14:50):
all very subjective, and it's all just,
you know, at the discretion ofthese bureaucrats.
Shaun Thompson (14:54):
I think what we need to focus on is the fact
that these bureaucracies andthese agencies are incentivized
to fine businesses and fineAmerican companies and to
bankrupt them. And and and theother part that goes unmentioned
is they keep a portion of thefine. The EPA keeps 50% of every
fine. They just put it in theirbudget. So you've got a
government entity that is thatis in the business of extorting
(15:15):
and and giving you a penalty.
They don't care if you stoppolluting to their definition.
You just have to pay to pollute.And that's something that always
gets lost. And I'm wondering,isn't it time for us to really
go at the core of the argumentitself and educate the people?
Because these kids today thatare brought up in these
indoctrination camps that arecalled school, they don't
realize that all of theirmetrics and all of their and all
(15:37):
of their schemes are based onrecord keeping from 18/80.
The we this country and theworld has only kept weather
patterns and temperature recordsfrom 18/80. The earth is
1,000,000,000 of years old. Wejust glaze over the fact that
the fundamental foundation oftheir fraud science is just that
(15:58):
fraud. They have no schematic.They have no real data.
If you inputted this in a systemof of computing, if you gave it
to AI, they wouldn't come upwith the conclusions that
politicians and no minds.Because what they've managed to
do is cultivate a religion.We're not arguing facts. We're
not arguing data. We're notarguing principles.
(16:18):
We're arguing a religion. Andit's funny because those people
in that religion, like thosesame people who dress up like
it's the 7th century, they don'teven look at the what happens to
the money once it goes into thesystem. They don't care. So how
do we do it? What's the smartestway?
I mean, you spend time. You'veyou've contributed on books. I
really do think it's time toreopen the the original promise
of the argument and prove me onthe shadow of a doubt. You're
(16:41):
making it all up. You have nodata to have any kind of scale.
Not only that, you have noscience that participates in the
fact that it is not a fossilproduct. It is organic. It is a
product of the earth of which asa people, we've only gone 7
miles, 7 and a half miles intodown from the surface anyway. We
don't know anything when itcomes to yours, do we?
Donald Kendal (17:03):
Yeah. No. You're absolutely right. And you're
describing, like, 75% of whatthe Heartland Institute does on
a daily basis is is tacklingthose core arguments that kind
of underpin all of theseschemes. And basically, over the
past, I don't know, 50, 75years, maybe even longer, maybe
like the the days of and maybe alittle bit more recent than Karl
Marx.
(17:23):
But this whole thing has beenpinned on this idea that if we
keep pursuing this capitalisticsystem, we're gonna destroy the
planet. Before that, they wouldsuggest that if we do all of
this capitalism and stuff, thatpeople are gonna get poorer and
poorer, and they're gonna beexploited increasingly by the
owner class and all of that sortof thing. But then as people
started accruing more benefitsbenefits, like, the Marxists
(17:46):
knew that they weren't gonna beable to sell that, that point
anymore. So what they had to dois just take their whole scheme
and attach it to some other diresituation, and that was the idea
of climate change. We'redestroying the planet.
We're all gonna be, you know,our backyard's gonna be filled
with garbage before you know it.And that's what we've been doing
for at least the past 50 years.But the Heartland Institute, we
(18:06):
are tackling all of thosethings, basically, on a daily
basis.
Shaun Thompson (18:09):
No. I know you are.
Donald Kendal (18:10):
The most recent project that we started is is a
series of videos on YouTube.They're really short, like, 2 to
3 minutes. Each one of them,tackling one of these specific
issues having to do with thescientific consensus or the idea
of droughts or floods or, youknow, intensifying hurricanes,
all of these just two minutethings that kinda break down
(18:31):
these
Shaun Thompson (18:33):
arguments. Did you talk with lions and tigers
and bears, oh my? No? Thatthat's gonna be the last one, I
think.
Donald Kendal (18:36):
I love that one. Because
Shaun Thompson (18:40):
do you know when you look at what happened under
the Trump administration priorto the pandemic, when you look
at those 3 years, what he wasable to achieve just in that one
sector by breaking all of thethe bands that bound us to an
incompetent, corrupt, climateaccord in Paris and the rest of
it. He was able to drive theprice of oil, which is the key
(19:02):
common denominator ofeverything, we've already
discussed that, into levels thatwe didn't see since before
September 11. And that goes bythe wayside. And now it's normal
to have it at $80, $78. Theythink it's normal, and they
don't realize this is a productthat is so abundant.
It should be $8 a barrel the wayit was in 19 58 because there's
(19:23):
far more of it than there was in1958. And this is something that
is always lost. And I think ifwe don't go back to that
original premise of everythingwe're dragged into the deep
water of fantasy. And they couldkeep pretending it's the warmest
year, not knowing that number 1,it was far warmer in the 1800,
far warmer in 1912 and 1933. Butmore importantly, it's all a
(19:47):
lie.
They tell it to us every timethere's a Democrat in office to
get away with it. Right?
Donald Kendal (19:51):
Oh, yeah. No. Absolutely. And yeah. I mean,
you brought up the pandemic, andthat was just, like, enough of a
social disruption for them toreally kick start the whole
great reset movement that I'vethat, you know, I've been on
this show talking about.
The ESG system, all of this waswas based on this idea that our
our system is in tatters so wecan build a new better one.
That's the mindset of all ofthis. That's that's the whole
(20:14):
elitist mindset for every everytopic. It it goes back to the,
the idea of don't want a crisisgo to waste sort of concept. So
So yeah.
This is this is all, all theworld view that we've been
pushing against at the SocialismResearch Center at the Heartland
Institute for the last, I don'tknow, 2 years, something like
that.
Shaun Thompson (20:32):
So my prediction is obviously after this European
tour of, a weekend at Bernie'swith this idiot some call
president, They're gonna replacehim with Newsom, and I say it'll
happen around the 4th July. Youhave any thoughts on that?
Donald Kendal (20:44):
Okay. So I've heard, some pretty interesting
theories about this. One havingto do with the fact that the the
Trump versus Biden debate isgonna be, like, late June, which
is by far the earliest that oneof these presidential debates
has occurred. Yeah. And I'veheard that, that this might be
their kind of their last, ditcheffort to make Biden work.
(21:05):
And if he fumbles on stage, theystill have a couple of months
before the Democraticconvention, which is actually
taking place later in the yearthan most Democratic
conventions. So it's verypossible. I'm not sure I'm
putting my money on it, but Ithink it's possible.
Shaun Thompson (21:20):
Alright. Well, he better wear dark pants. I got
$5 says he doesn't make it tothe end of the debate, but I
look forward to talking to youafterwards when we meet our new
overlords. In the meantime,Donald Kendall, Heartland
Institute, thank you so much foreverything. Where do you prefer
they go and keep an eye on you?
Donald Kendal (21:34):
Yeah. Heartland.org for sure. The In
The Tank podcast is now onHeartland's, YouTube channel. So
if you just look up HeartlandInstitute on YouTube, you'll
you'll find our show.
Shaun Thompson (21:44):
Alright. I would be very flattered with lions and
tigers and bears, Omai. Ipromise I won't sue you.
Donald Kendal (21:49):
Deal? Sounds sounds good.
Shaun Thompson (21:50):
Thank you. We'll be back with
Speaker 1 (21:51):
your calls and comments.
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