September 2, 2025 • 50 mins
What does it take to go from waiting tables to writing chart-topping hits for country music's biggest stars? In this compelling conversation, songwriter Blake Pendergrass opens up about his remarkable year since his last appearance on the podcast – a year that's seen him secure 15 cuts on Morgan Wallen's latest album (including his first #1 hit), pen songs for Jelly Roll, Tucker Wetmore, and Post Malone, and have eight singles charting simultaneously on country radio.
Behind these impressive statistics lies a deeply human story of perseverance through doubt. Pendergrass shares how after 13 years in Nashville with minimal success, his faith kept him going when logic suggested otherwise. The emotional high point comes when he discusses "The Dealer," a song he wrote entirely by himself during a period of uncertainty. "I wasn't really planning on writing a full song," he reveals, his voice breaking slightly. "I was in a season of feeling defeated... I sat down essentially to prove to myself I can still write songs." That vulnerable moment produced a powerful track that became one of his proudest accomplishments.
The conversation delivers fascinating insights into the mechanics of modern country songwriting – from the collaborative process of creating Morgan Wallen's "Just In Case" with multiple established writers to pushing genre boundaries with Tucker Wetmore's "Brunette." Pendergrass explains how writing changes when working with artists at different career stages and how he approaches rooms with multiple strong creative voices. His perspective on balancing artistic exploration with commercial sensibility provides valuable wisdom for creators in any field.
Whether you're an aspiring songwriter, a music industry professional, or simply a fan curious about how your favorite songs come together, this episode offers an authentic glimpse into both the craft and the heart behind today's biggest country hits. Listen now to experience the stories behind songs that are shaping the soundtrack of modern country music.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to Stories Behind the Songs with
Chris Blair.
For more information, you canfind us on Instagram and TikTok
at sbtsongs, or check us out atchrisblaircom.
Welcome back, everybody, toStories Behind the Songs.
Today's guest is someone that Ihad on just about a year ago
(00:24):
and in that short time he hashad an incredible run.
He's got 15 credits on MorganWallen's I'm the Problem album,
including his first number one,plus cuts with Jelly Roll,
priscilla Block, Thomas Rhett,post Malone and many more.
I'm so glad to have him back.
Blake Pendergrass in the house.
How are you doing, brother?
Doing well?
(00:44):
Thanks to have him back.
Blake Pendergrass in the house.
How you doing, brother?
Doing well?
Thanks for having me back.
Yeah, man, you are the firstperson that we've had on Ed as a
second time.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm honored.
Yeah, I'm honored.
That's a huge, huge deal.
Yeah, man, glad to hopefully doit justice?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Absolutely it's.
You know, we started looking atthere's so many of these
episodes that I've said topeople, like I can't wait to
have you back in about a yearand see, see what happens and I
think I said that to you about ayear ago and, uh, you, you've
had just so much happen.
Uh, like I was just talkingabout.
And, um, one thing that Ididn't mention, uh in that
(01:17):
little intro is that you havecurrently, as we are sitting
here today filming this uh,which is middle of August, so
it'll be a couple weeks whenthis comes out, but right now
you have eight singles out onradio.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, eight on the charts?
Yeah, so on the Hot Countrychart, yeah, there's about eight
songs, which is insane.
It is, yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, it's wild, it's crazy.
So, man, let's just kind ofdive in and kick off.
I mean you, you recentlycelebrated your first number one
.
I did with Morgan.
That was a number one for fourweeks in a row.
I'm talking about the song,just In Case let's, let's talk
about what was it like justwatching that song climb all the
(02:02):
way to the top.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Man.
That was an exciting time forsure.
Morgan is one of those artiststhat once you have a single with
him that you feel prettyconfident as a writer that it's
going to make it to the top.
He's got such a good trackrecord at radio and he obviously
has such a big fan base andeverything.
Everybody loves his music.
So when I got the news that justin case was going to be a
single, it was like okay, I,just in case it was going to be
a single.
It was like okay, I kind of hadthe ability to like sit back a
(02:23):
little bit and be like I thinkthis one's going to ring the
bell and uh, and luckily it did,it didn't take too long, um it,
it really just shot up.
I think it took like anywhere,but I can't remember exactly but
like 12 weeks or something likethat to get to number one,
(02:48):
which was really fast.
So even just figuring, and youwrote that song with a, with a
pretty big crew, yeah,definitely yeah.
So it was kind of aninteresting process as far as
like how it came together.
We had a.
The original room was CharlieHandsome, john Byron, jay Cash
was technically a part of thelike beginnings of it with like
the idea and everything.
And then there was JoshThompson and Morgan, and so we
were set up in a B room at astudio where Morgan was
recording at the time andeverything and he would go
(03:11):
bounce back and forth between,like, the tracking room and the
writing room.
And so that idea had started.
Jb and Jay Cash had started anidea called Just In Case and
they'd written, I guess like achorus for it, that, uh, that
they showed to the JB had showedto, um, morgan, and Morgan
liked the title but he didn'treally like the whole, like the
way that it was written at thetime.
(03:32):
So we kind of just stripped itback to the title and and
rewrote the entire thing withthat room, um, and so from there
we got kind of a finished songand the next day Morgan recorded
what we had done and he livedwith it for a little bit, spent
about like two months or so,just kind of like listening to
it on his own time andeverything, and came back at
another retreat where he waslike man, I like everything but
(03:53):
the second verse.
I want to rework the wholesecond verse.
And so we were on a retreatwith me, him, charlie and Earn.
And so we pulled it up andredid the second verse, and
that's the song that there istoday.
Yeah, yeah, and redid thesecond verse, and that's the
song that there is today.
So, yeah, it was kind of like abig group of people for that
reason, but it worked out.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
And like what in his mind?
Like just in case, like whatwas some of the first
conversations around that?
Did it like end exactly whereit kind of started?
Or like, take me through theprocess of like, especially with
rewriting it a couple times, toget there?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah.
So we had kind of a um when westripped it back to just the,
the title it was kind of theconcept was just like I'd never
fall in love, just in case, andso like that, right, there was
enough to kind of jump off of umand we just had that lyric that
we went off of and so westarted playing different things
and um going back and forth inthe room and everything, and
once we got to the, the partthat we thought was going to be
(04:45):
the post-chorus, what we thoughtwe were writing, we ended it
with the just-in-case part andas time went on we just kept
talking about how the waylyrically the song was going.
It didn't seem like we weregoing to be able to hook the
song as a book-ended chorus orjust as an ending.
It almost felt likejust-in-case had to have more
information come after it, afteryou said it the first time, for
(05:05):
the song to make sense and belike as simple as it could be
lyrically.
And so we took what was thepost-chorus and brought it to
the front of the chorus and thenjumped off from there to see
what else melodically we coulddo, and it wound up being a song
where you kind of hook it inthe middle and at the end, which
is, I guess a little bitunconventional, but it worked
really well in this case forexplaining the lyric content and
everything.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So, yeah, yeah, great song man, what, uh, what was it
?
What was it like with, uh, yourphone when it went number one?
Was you just, were you blown up?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Man, it was crazy.
So I actually, at the same timethat it was going number one,
like the day after or the daybefore it went number one, I got
engaged so I didn't evenrealize that it was going number
one on the week it was going.
So I actually got a.
There's a guy named Chris Owenthat always tweets or Instagrams
the chart information everyweek and he tagged me in an
(05:54):
Instagram post and I didn't knowthe chart was even out yet.
It was on July 4th and becauseit was July 4th, they didn't
actually publish the chart tillthree days later.
But this guy tagged me and Iwas like is it real?
Is it like actually a thing?
And he was like it's for suregonna be number one, and so I
took his word for it and thenfrom there there was kind of a
little bit of a delay, I guess,because the chart actually
hadn't published.
That guy's like so tapped inthat he knows before everybody
(06:15):
else kind of a thing.
But me and JB called each otherand JB was on a like trip at the
time and we like had like along phone call just like
celebrating and talking about itand everything, which was
awesome because me and him beenwriting for, like at that at
this point, I guess like eightor nine years together, yeah,
and so to like have a firstnumber one for me, uh, with my
oldest friend in the musicbusiness is is incredible.
(06:36):
Um, yeah, man.
And then like we just uh, likethe group thread of the writers
and everything, we texted eachother and all congratulated, and
so it was.
It was a really great moment,for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I love it.
Uh, just in case you want toplay a little bit of it, yeah
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I ain't saying that I always sleep alone.
(07:09):
I ain't saying that I ain't metno one else Done a little bit
of midnight, moving on.
And I ain't saying, when I do,that it don't help Leave with
someone I don't know her name,pull her real close, but I leave
some space.
Yeah, I could forget you girlfor good, and even though I
(07:30):
should, I never let my heart goall the way.
Every time I try, I just hitthe brakes and there's always a
couple trying to take your place, but I never fall in love, baby
.
Just in case you wake upwanting me out of the blue, you
lay down eating, what I used todo every now and then I go get a
(07:53):
taste, but I never fall in love, baby, just in case.
Just in case, love it man, yeah, yeah, thank you, dude.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
When you're in a room , love it, man.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, thank you, dude .
When you're in a room likewriting that song with those
many voices, how do you findyour voice in a room like that?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, man, that's a great question.
Oddly enough, when you're in aroom with people that you work
with a lot, I like you sort ofkind of understand each, each
person's dynamic in eachperson's role.
And so me and jb, like I said,been working together for about
eight or nine years and so Iknow what jb's typical like
roadmap of like what he likes todo in a room.
And josh thompson and I alsohave been writing for a while
and Charlie, so everybody kindof fills into these gaps that
(08:45):
like, I guess, as time goes on,you just are kind of predictable
for like what, what your roleis going to be, and so a lot of
the time in that in thatparticular room, um, like,
obviously, like I said, jb hadthe idea of him and Jay cash,
and so from there it's kind oflike trying to like shift and
(09:07):
like guide the, the melody partand like JB's incredible melody,
incredible lyrics.
Like the cool thing about a roomlike that is like typically you
don't really need co-writers ina certain with certain writers,
like some of them are just sogood that they can do it without
you, and so like sometimes inthat when it's somebody else's
idea like that, I try to likeguide and help along, as opposed
to like just say, say no, ithas to be this way, it needs to
be this way.
I like to try to bring to lifewhatever vision the person with
(09:28):
the original idea had.
Um and and a lot of the times,especially with somebody like
Morgan in the room, likeMorgan's giving a lot of
guidance on what he wants it tobe, and so I'm kind of like,
kind of I'm taking like a 30,000foot view kind of role in that
room a lot of the time, whereI'm like trying to get everybody
on the same page and like alignit, because there's a lot of
(09:49):
different things happening, alot of different voices like
that.
So sometimes that's the mostimportant role to take.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
it's where you're, apparently you're a good
director oh, thank you, that oneworked out really well for
everybody.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Thank you, yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know if I
did, if I did as much directingas I just did didn't be a part
of a great song, but yeah, yeahuh, man, take me back.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Um, you, you went from writing 865 before you had
a pub deal.
Yeah, uh, to now you have 15cuts on morgan's record.
Yeah, yeah, crazy, how does?
How does that feel in like theperspective of just kind of
looking back over that that timeperiod?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
man, it's unbelievable.
Um, it's kind of one of thosethings I haven't like fully
wrapped my head around exactlyhow much has been accomplished
in this small amount of time.
You know, 865 was at a seasonwhere I was riding heavily but I
didn't have any sort of successbesides that.
And so for it to be working sowell and for it to feel like I
(10:42):
got my foot in the door and forpeople to have responded very
well to it is, I mean, it'shumbling in a lot of ways where
you're like man, people reallydo react to what I'm writing.
I believe that I'd get thereone day, but I never really I
kind of believe, but then you'realso like man, I'm not there
and what's it going to take.
And so now that I'm in and it'sactually working, it's like
it's fulfilling in a lot of waysthat like all that work and
(11:03):
belief in myself paid off.
Um, but yeah, man, I mean it'sthe 15 part about it is.
It was kind of it was notexpected.
That was not even a goal.
I was like I mean, I didn'tever set the goal to be like 15
songs on this album.
It just sort of fell into placeand as as the album started
shaping up.
It was like when morgan wouldrecord songs he was, it was a
lot of the times it was.
I'd go three for three on arecording session.
(11:25):
He'd record three songs andthree of them would be mine.
I didn't know exactly like whatwas happening in them.
I was like man, this is just, Ihad three yesterday, now I got
six.
Oh, now I got nine.
Now I got, and it just startedbeing like rapid fire recording.
So it was, it was prettyawesome.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That is awesome, yeah , um, and you went from I want
to move into a different song.
So you've got that song thatyou wrote with, you know, huge
group, yeah.
Then let's talk about theDealer yeah, and how special
that one is because you are 100%right around that one.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Thank you, man.
Yeah, that was the actual.
When it comes to goals, thatwas one of the biggest goals
that I ever set for myself asfar as a writer.
I always kind of thought thatit would be the pinnacle of like
proving to myself, just likebeing proud of myself, if I
could get a song recorded.
I wrote entirely by myself.
Throughout the years when I wascoming up and learning how to
write, I I would always look atthe credits, and anytime I saw a
(12:18):
song written by one person, itjust resonated with me and stuck
out as like man.
For like that person to sitdown and get it all the way
across the finish line, that'sjust incredibly impressive, and
so to have been able to do thaton this record was a huge honor.
I texted Morgan, he he textedme when it was like when he was
recording it, and I likeresponded I was like man, that's
bigger, that's a bigger deal tome than like if I got a Grammy
(12:41):
or if I got any like sort ofaward, just having a song
written by myself that somebodyreacted to.
So, yeah, man, I mean it's thatone, that one was the one for
me.
That like really was like man.
I feel, I feel like I did it,yeah, yeah, let's.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Let's talk about, uh, how you approach writing like
that when you're just at home oror whatever, by yourself.
I mean, you just talked about,like just in case, like all
these riders, and you kind ofyou knew all the riders Well,
you knew what their lane was,and you kind of sat back and
kind of like, jumped in as youneeded and kept everybody
focused on getting to the end.
(13:15):
Right, yeah, you can't.
When it's just you, right, likewhat's different, how do you,
how do you change your mindsetto sit down and come up with the
idea and take it to the finishline by yourself, yeah
definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
So that's part of the reason I really enjoy writing
by myself is because it's it's apure test of like, okay, say
that you don't have somebodythat's really good at melody in
the room, so you don't havesomebody that's really good at
lyric, Like, are you going to beable to like fill in that gap
in a co-writing situation?
And so, like, writing byyourself, there's no, there's no
wiggle room to lean on anybodyelse, and so I wasn't really
(13:50):
planning on writing a full song.
When, on the day that I wrotethe dealer, I was kind of like
in a season of feeling kind ofdefeated about like at that time
I didn't have any songs on thechart, didn't have any sort of
success, and I was aboutprobably like three years into
my publishing deal and startingto feel the pressure of like man
, I got to get, I got to getthis train rolling, or else it's
like I had always kind ofbelieved that you have a window
(14:12):
of opportunity and if you don'tcapitalize on it as a writer,
then it shuts.
And so I was kind of feelingthe pressure, that kind of
feeling like I talked to God alot about like all my career and
all of like everything, and soyou know, it was in a season
where I was kind of likeprocessing, where I was at with
God and I was just sitting downto essentially prove to myself I
can still write songs, I can.
(14:32):
I can do what I'm signing up todo, even though I didn't feel
like I was achieving what Iwanted to achieve.
And so I sat down and wrote thatdidn't have any idea or any
concept.
I just started kind of like offthe feelings that I was having
at the moment, started writingthat and it turned into that,
led me to the chorus, and it'sthat's the beautiful part about
I think again, like the faithpiece with songwriting is that
(14:56):
it's kind of a great templatefor walking with God in the
first place.
To me, it's like you startstepping out in faith, You're
like something's going to comeout of this, even though you
have no idea where it's going.
You start walking down thisroad and that's how I did.
I started with the chorus thatthe words were, you know, like
uh, and I I just led myself intothe, into the hook, and you
(15:16):
know it was one of thosesituations where God provided an
idea.
You know, it wasn't like I hadthis like clever thought that I
was aiming at and writingtowards the whole time.
It was just like, oh, the wordsthat I wrote led me here and
this is good enough for me tostop.
You know, this is a good goodstopping place.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
This is the hook, so I want to dig into that a little
bit more because it'sinteresting to me that it sounds
like.
So the dealer you didn't.
That was not the hook.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
No, I didn't have an idea.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You didn't know where you were going, so I want to
dive into that, but before I do,as I'm sitting here and
listening to you tell this story, I can see your eyes watering.
And this is obviously like veryemotional.
It's a big song.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, I love the song and and the, the testimony of
of just being proud in yourfaith and all that.
So, like what?
What is it about this, otherthan the fact that it's a solo
right?
Um, that's, that's making youfeel like this right now man.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I think it's the like , the reality that every
situation that I've had, whenit's been up and down in my
career, that I've leaned on Godand God's been there, and I
think that the song it wastrying to capture that essence,
without really trying to capturethat essence, because it wasn't
like I was sitting here beinglike, oh, I'm going to write a
song about God today.
It was like that was literallylike in the season I'd been in
(16:33):
that season before, where I'dbeen like felt defeated,
whatever you want to call it,and God got me out of that.
I mean, I remember when I was awaiter down the road.
I mean I would sit there andpray to God in the car before I
had any success and I would sitthere and be like man.
I don't know why, like I'm inthis season, I don't know why
I'm doing this thing, like,whatever the situation was, and
I always kind of felt the callof like, hey, just keep going.
(16:54):
You know it's like this iswhere I want you to be and one
of these days you're going tounderstand why.
And now that we're here, liketalking about success, it makes
sense, but like when you'rebefore that time period, it's
like man, what am I doing, youknow?
Like I mean, I've been here for13 years at this point, and so
for it to that sounds like along time, sounds like a short
(17:16):
time in some ways, but like whenyou actually are before success
.
For 13 years, you're just likeman, this is a long time, you
know, and so like for God tohave been there the whole time.
That's kind of why it's anemotional situation for me with
this kind of song, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, yeah, because he has been Dude.
I love that so much.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, absolutely, man Dude.
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Thank you for sharing that, yeah absolutely, man,
it's true, it's the reality.
We've known each other for awhile now and we were talking
earlier about you know how muchyou love being back home.
You know, in North Carolina,and your fiance is from there
too, and you know you weretalking about two hours to the
mountains, three hours to thebeach or vice versa, or
something like that three hoursthe beach or vice versa, or
(17:59):
something like that.
You know, and, um, it's, it'sgot to be so different.
You know, being being in aplace like nashville, the grind
of the music industry, yeah, theconstant up and downs, I mean
you can't, you can't do thisbusiness without, without some
thick skin, but a lot of faithdefinitely yeah, yeah for sure,
and I mean I truly wouldn't bedoing this if I didn't feel like
it was something that godcalled me to do and like wanted
me to be doing.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I mean that's the.
The thing I prayed more thananything on the way up was like,
man, just tell me to gosomewhere else, because this is
like this is too, too difficultto like not going the way I
wanted to go.
Like if, if you would have,like if I would have felt really
in my heart that like I wassupposed to do anything else I
probably would have, because itwas.
It was just it didn't work forso long.
But like, now that I'm here,it's like, oh, the impact that
(18:42):
the songs I'm writing are havingand like the stage that they
are getting sung on.
You know, it's like imagine if Iwould have just gave up and
like missed out on that and likemissed out.
I mean songs like the Dealer.
I mean I feel like hopefullypeople out there are resonating
with it in a way that like helpsthem get through life, and if I
would have given up, then theywouldn't be here.
You know, especially with songsthat like I mean I wrote by
(19:03):
myself, you know it's like, well, without me, then, something
like this that can help peoplewouldn't have existed.
And it's like a crazy thing tosee how God works throughout the
whole winding road to get youthere.
Yeah, man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I love this.
Yeah, this is exactly why, youknow, like we uh, we've had so
many hit songwriters, uh, hallof fame songwriters, you know,
and all of that um on thispodcast over the last uh, three
years or so now, and I love youknow, like this idea that I've
had and again you're the firstone that we've done it with but
like, where we're bringing inthese newer writers, it's like,
(19:37):
um, you know, there's been times, like fully transparent, where
I've thought I wonder if thelisteners out there are really
enjoying this as much, because,like, we're not diving into like
five huge number one songs thateverybody knows.
On certain episodes, you know,it's like, hey, let's talk about
like, what it was like firstgetting to town and your first
pub deal and everything that wetalked about.
You know, on the first episode,um, and then you know just
(20:00):
hearing, you know just howyou're talking about all of this
stuff, and then about a yearlater, you're in that seat.
You know now it's like you'vegot, you've got the number one,
you've got, you know, eightsongs out on uh on the charts
right now.
It's just, it's, it'srollercoaster.
This is this is uh, this is whatI wanted to get to man.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So thank you, absolutely, man.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Okay, so let's go back to the dealer.
Uh, so you don't have the hook.
Uh, you just sit down.
So, like, take me, take me into.
Like if you, if you didn't havethe hook, like where, where,
where was it going?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Like, did you just?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
pick up your guitar and just start scatting, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I literally sat down and the first thing that I
said was there's been a fewdays I've outfolded, you know,
and like that's, like that's theseason, that I mean that's just
.
At that point I'm like man, Imean I'm, I'm just in this time
of like that's what I wanted todo was just give up.
So, like there's been a fewdays I've outfolded and it was
almost like again it'sprocessing like your emotions
(21:01):
through the situation.
You're like, but I'm not goingto do that.
But I found one more card toplay.
Like it was like literally likelive version of, like what I
was and like re-encouragingmyself through a song.
I guess you could say yeah, andI just continue to write down
that road, you know, and it'slike it felt very true to the
season that I was in.
And as the song developed, youknow, it's like, oh man, I
(21:23):
slammed into the like.
I started thinking I was like,okay, time to write the last
line of the song.
What's it going to be?
You know, it's like and Ilooked at the last, the three
lines before, and I was like allthese are about cards in some
way, shape or form, and like Idon't know, it just like, for
some reason, like it fell out.
And again, for me to take allthe credit as a song that's a
hundred percent written by me,it's like it's really not.
(21:43):
You know, it's like it'sthere's a whole element of God
being there with you the wholetime when you're writing a song
like that.
And I think that in a lot ofways that I mean God just gave
me a good song.
You know, it's like I didn't.
I mean, yeah, I wrote it down,but like it's not.
Like I'm sitting there, I'm notsome genius.
That was like look at what Idid.
You know, it's like it just Iprocessed emotions and God gave
(22:05):
me something that can turn intoa gift for other people, and so,
yes, it's 100 percent writtensong, but like kind of not,
because God's there with me, youknow, and so like, yeah, man,
it was really just walkingaround in the dark and that's
where I landed.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I've got a song that I wrote several years ago called
why Don't you Fall, and it was.
that was one of those for meit's the only time that's ever
happened, but I, you know, Iremember, you know the struggles
and like chasing the lyrics andall of this on every song I've
ever written.
Yeah, and that song truly don'tremember writing the song Like
it was For sure.
It was one of those thingswhere I like my, my hands moving
(22:42):
and and writing stuff down,yeah, and all of a sudden it's
like I look at this piece ofpaper and it's like and here it
is, when did this come from?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
So so it is, uh uh, you had the co-writer in God.
I love that man For sure.
Yeah, and I do feel likethere's a world where it's like
I think biblically, like yourgifts are supposed to be used in
a way, that like are worshipfulin a way, and it's like that's
kind of the way that felt, feltlike it was just like kind of in
a communion with God, whereit's like I'm doing what you've
(23:11):
called me to do and I'm going todo it to the infinite best of
my ability right here in thissituation, and it like it's like
it worked out, I think, as aresult.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So yeah, let's hear a little bit of it.
Yeah, absolutely, this is thedealer.
Yeah, I'm morgan wallen.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I got a million questions like why the hell
can't heaven be on earth?
And why do good folks have tohurt?
Why is life a lesson?
Why does every single blessinghave a curse?
And why does love take so muchwork?
And why does Mom and Daddy'shair have to turn gray?
(24:08):
Guess everyone's got reasonswhy their shoulders carry weight
.
There's been a few days I'veoutfolded I found one more card
to play been a few days.
I was hopeless and I'll be damnI drew an ace.
Guess that's life.
And that's why I remind myselfto spend more time talking to
(24:30):
the dealer than worrying aboutthe hands I'm dealt.
The hands I'm dealt.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Like.
That's such a great song, man.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Yeah, dude, thank you.
Yeah, this episode is broughtto you by AllClear Audio.
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there listening takes advantageof this and enjoys them as well.
Let's talk about a song thatyou currently have out.
(25:50):
Yeah, I think it's in the top10 now.
Yeah, and Jelly Roll is allover the place.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Man, he is just everywhere yeah, so uh, let's
talk about heart of stone thankyou, yeah, yeah, heart of
stone's a good one man, um, likeyou said, it's, it's climbing
the charts, it's doing its thing.
It's fun to watch.
Um, and that one came aboutfrom a retreat we were doing in
franklin, tennessee, um, and sozach crowell was producing jelly
roll at the time and and heessentially called me up and
(26:19):
he's been always great,especially with me and I think,
in a lot of ways with newerwriters, have always like
plugging them into theopportunities that he has and
like finding the benefit of likehaving fresh ideas and fresh
lyrics and all that stuffwhenever he can.
And so he called me, eventhough I didn't at the time have
really any reason being there.
I mean, I wasn't likeaccomplished in a great way, he
(26:40):
just liked what I did, zach did.
And so he called me, wanted meto be there, and I was there for
the.
I think it was a three dayretreat.
I was there the whole time androoms were rotating around, we
were in different pairings alongthe way and this particular
song, heart of Stone, was me,zach Crowell and Shai Carter and
Jelly.
And uh, the whole time Zach hadbeen talking about how he
wanted to do, sort of like an uh, an Avicii style thing for
(27:02):
Jelly Roll.
He thought it would be a cool,cool, I guess template to go off
of.
And so he had pulled up a trackthat he had started working on
a little bit and like a kind ofjust a like loose melody and it
was just Zach literally singingin Pro Tools and it was just
like.
It was like literally like thatwas all.
It was like a mumble and likethe melody and like I'm wide
awake and I'm dreaming, and hewas like I don't know what it is
(27:23):
, but he's like it, just itseems cool.
And we were, me and Shy, werelike yeah, dude, that it felt
like it could work for JellyRoll in some context.
And so I think Zach was likeman, let's run off of that.
And like we started piecing ittogether.
We did the chorus first and wejust started again kind of like
(27:49):
walking around in the dark withthat one where it was like
singing melodies and like we gota melody map, kind of going
where it was the chorus templateand everything, and started
piecing together words andseeing where it led and it
worked out.
And then Jelly.
Obviously his input on that isso essential because he's, I
think we had our instincts wherewe wanted to take it in, and
lyrically, he continuously waspushing us.
(28:09):
He was like man, he wanted itto be more poetic, more unique,
more different, more than only asong that Jelly Roll could sing
.
And so he can get away withsinging lyrics that not a lot of
people can, and in a way that'slike an honest, real fashion.
And so he, every time, with theverses and if it wasn't like
very profound sounding, like itwasn't good enough yet.
(28:30):
And so we spent a lot of timehashing that out and we got it
to a verse chorus state and thenwe came back later, later on.
That was how we were doing theretreat.
We're doing like verse choruses, to see if there was anything
worth jumping off of from there.
But yeah, it worked out, wefinished it up and it it landed
on the album.
So did you know, jelly, beforethat man?
I did, I.
I I met him beforehand, butlike he had forgotten that we'd
(28:51):
met, I guess, so like I'dwritten with him one time at his
house before the retreat, andthen when I showed up to the
retreat, he was like.
He was like hey, man, I'm jellyroll, and I was like oh, I'm
Blake.
I was like we've already met,we've already written a song,
and but it was.
It was totally fine, but it wasvery memorable song that you
guys wrote.
(29:12):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly,not a, not a winner on off and
like we started having, it wasinteresting Me and Jelly have,
like I feel like a uniquedynamic where it's like he's
he's always kind of like, Ithink, gravitated towards lyrics
that I write, but he also, likewe have a like joking back and
forth relationship with eachother, which is which is fun.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So yeah, do you find yourself writing differently, or
even holding back, or anythinglike that, when you're in a room
with an artist like Jelly?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Man, I do think that you have to.
You have to write differentlyfor sure.
So, like again with the dealer,it's like there's really no
pressure in any situation towrite that any particular way,
so you can write that purely asa song and then you kind of just
get to show it for what it isand if people like it, then they
like it.
But with an artist you're verymuch so like it's.
It's in your best interest andin everybody's best interest to
(30:03):
make sure that you bring theirvision to life.
Yeah, because they're theperson singing it, they're the
person that's representing it,and so, yeah, you have to be
very, I guess you would say,receptive and perceptive as well
to what they want to say.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Receptive and perceptive as well to what they
want to say.
So, yeah, definitely.
And I mean, talk to me a littlebit more about the direction
from Jelly in a role in a likein a room like that.
Yeah, was it kind of right offthe bat where it felt good?
I mean, you're only, you'relike, okay, let's do a verse
chorus and see how it fits.
Yeah, you know was, was Jellyreally into it?
And and how how does an artistthe room in those situations?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I think that a lot of the times in my experience you
don't really know if the artistloves it or doesn't like it you
know, so you're, even whenyou're writing it.
You're like there's almost likea completion mindset a lot of
the time where people just wantto finish a song, and so
sometimes you you're justfinishing a song to finish a
song, and other times you'refinishing it because they really
like it and it's.
(31:03):
I think oftentimes when you'rewriting something, it's too soon
to tell as far as, like whenyou haven't lived with it, when
you haven't seen what, like, theimpact it is over the course of
a week or a month, um, it'shard to tell, and so you gotta
wait till you're two weeks inand you're humming something in
the shower exactly wait, what isthat?
oh, exactly, maybe this song'scool for For sure For sure, but
Jelly is, especially with anysong he's very involved in like
(31:29):
wanting, like I said, to beunique and different.
And so with that song inparticular, I remember there's
the line in the first versewhere it's like there's like
there's metal in my veins andit's running like the river
filled with all my mistakes, andhe was like that's what I'm
talking about.
Like he was like that's what weneed to be doing the whole time
, like, and he's like very, veryparticular on that.
And so it does.
(31:49):
It has a huge benefit as far asthe co-writing side of things,
cause if, if you don't have anartist like that, that's like
really dialed in, then you'rekind of you're kind of just
shooting at the wall and hopingthat it sticks.
But whenever somebody has got areally adamant like box that
they want it to fit in it's,it's helpful for sure, and what
do you think it is about thatsong that's resonating with, uh,
the fans right now, man, Ithat's all.
(32:13):
That's a good question.
I think that the uh, I thinkthe feeling of it is a very
powerful thing.
I think zach was on tosomething with like the like
up-tempo nature of like.
It almost has a little bit oflike a folk americana like
undertone to it, with it's likeacoustic guitar driven.
I think that that like just inthe marketplace right now, I
think a lot of people like musicthat sounds like that and it
(32:33):
kind of taps into a jelly rollversion of that.
Yeah, um, which I think is oneof the reasons.
I also think that it's it's oneof those songs.
Again, it's from the impetuswhen, uh, when zach started
singing it, that that top of thechorus is just like what
exactly does it mean?
But it makes you feel something.
I'm wide awake but I'm dreamingand you're like OK, if you dive
too deep into that, you're likeI don't know what that means,
(32:55):
but it also it just makes youfeel it hits you in the.
It's got specific lyrics thatare very thought through and
then it's got the lyrics thatare like that are all based on
(33:15):
emotion, and so I think it kindof captures a wide range of
people for that reason.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
But let's hear a little bit of that one.
Yeah, dear Lord, can you helpme?
I'm falling out of grace.
I'm crawling back to heavenFrom this hell on earth I made.
My blood has gotten heavy.
There's metal in my veins.
It's running like the river,filled with all of my mistakes
On my knees.
I'm looking up.
(33:46):
I need a different kind of drug.
I'm wide awake and I'm dreaming, wondering where and when I
fell apart.
Oh, I fell apart.
I've had enough of my demons,and angels only meet you where
you are.
(34:06):
I'm in the dark.
At least for now, lord, I ain'tlosing hope.
Somehow you can make a heart ofgold from this heart of stone,
this heart of stone.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Come on, I love it, dude.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Thank you All right.
Well, we've talked about MorganJelly.
You know obviously huge namesin the industry.
I want to kind of flip andwe've got time to let's dive
into one more song, and I wantto talk about brunette yeah, uh
tucker wetmore is one of thenewest voices in country right
(34:52):
now.
Yeah, um, and I want to talkabout, uh, you know what it's
like collaborating with anartist that's just breaking
through, right, um, you know,versus like being in a room with
like and Jelly.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So with Tucker, it's one of those situations.
Brunette was with a guy namedChase McGill, josh Miller and
Chris LaCour, and so that was anoutside pitch situation as far
as getting the song to him andeverything.
But me and Tucker are actuallysigned to the same company as
far as the publishing and wherehis label is also at Backblocks
(35:26):
Music is what it's called, andso I've actually known Tucker
for quite a while.
I've known him since before hewas kind of on anybody else's
radar because he was on Rekia'sradar who's our mutual person
that we had, and so it's beenreally interesting to see and
really cool to watch, likesomebody that literally, like I
met him, I I think probably likea month or two in to when he
moved to town, which was cool,um, and then to see the arc that
(35:47):
he's taken, it's impressive.
You know what I mean he's gotlike at this point I haven't
seen his shows, but like fromthe videos you're like man, this
guy's like selling out tons oftickets, selling tons of
different, uh, different sizerooms and everything.
It's really really cool towatch and so but but yeah, as
far as breaking out with that,it's uh, there's a different
mindset there because you'rekind of like you're trying to
(36:07):
figure out how to like offer asong that gives them a lane kind
of a thing and gives them like,sort of like.
At that time they're like,they're developing, they're kind
of finding their footing.
What do they want to sound like, what do they want to do?
And so as a writer, you kind ofhave a little bit more of like
a wider thing to aim at.
You know, it's like it's not aslike focused yet.
So brunette was one of thosewhere we were just that room, we
(36:30):
were just trying to write.
Honestly, we were just tryingto write the craziest thing we
could write as far as like andit wasn't with anybody in mind
at the time, it was just likelet's write a crazy song that,
like morgan maybe could do, orlike that like nate smith could
maybe do, or that, like whoeverlike that could find a spot with
somebody that wanted to take a,a wild swing with a song.
Where did that hook come from?
(36:51):
So that was josh miller's idea,um, and so he pretty much had
the idea.
It was the simple concept oflike.
You know, like you've beendating so many blondes and
they've all been screwing youover like about time I try to
find a brunette and like it waslike lyrically that simple.
And then we just were like,okay, let's push the musical
like boundaries of, like countrymusic right now, let's see what
(37:13):
we can do.
And so we started.
We made it way too fast, one offor one, like as far as like
when we were writing it it wasjust like that's fast, let's do
this, let's make it even faster.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
It kind of reminds me of like cash yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, we were just trying to literally, so that was
intentional.
Like okay, so now, like howmany words can we slam into it?
And like we just tried to dothings that were unconventional
in on purpose.
Yeah, and we wrote it and wewere all like man, this is crazy
.
And so I think we like went asfar as we all could imagine at
the time, you know, and then itturned into brunette.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
So was that one that, uh, I mean you're just in a
room like that just having funpushing limits.
Uh, does that make the writingprocess go faster or slower for
you?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Kind of faster man, because it's like when you're
doing it, especially with thatgroup, like that group is like
those guys are so talented, youknow.
So like it's.
It wasn't like we were sittingthere messing with vibes, it was
like chase had this like guitarpart, it's like boom, that's
cool, like.
And so you're kind of based onin that situation.
Instead of like being reallynitpicky, you're just being like
how excited you are aboutwhenever you hear something, and
(38:14):
so it's actually really fast,because you're like that's,
that's awesome.
Let's just see where that goes.
And like it's exploratorywriting more than it is like it
has to fit into this parameter,you know, and it's like as long
as it's cool, you can just moveon and keep going.
And so, like josh spit out likethe like and he's like that
sounds like we were all likethat sounds cool.
(38:35):
Let's just do that, you knowit's like we weren't like
cycling through a bunch ofdifferent melodies and lyrics
and all this stuff until itworked.
Yeah, we're just like going offof instinct and what we thought
was cool.
Yeah, can we?
Can we hear a little bit of?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
that one Sure.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, this one's fast .
I can't play it like Chase asfar as the guitar part, but I
can try, okay.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Lord knows, I got a type and there's a few in here
tonight.
I've learned my lesson.
Too many times blondes like youput me through hell and I need
something new.
I need a fine five, five, five.
North side of the mason dixonline, kind ain't climb up in the
(39:21):
four-wheel drive.
It's lifted.
Never been fishing, never beenmudding.
Gotta be, gotta be one thatdoesn't remind me.
Are you there beside me?
I need to find me a brunette.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Let's go man.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Crazy song.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah dude so fun.
Yeah, well, man, let's.
I want to reflect a little bitas we kind of wrap things up.
You know it was awesome havingyou on.
You know, like I said about ayear ago, what, what is it that
keeps you inspired?
I mean, we talked a little bitabout, you know, your faith and
just the drive and the ups anddowns and all that.
(40:02):
But like you keep showing upand riding at a fast pace and
you've got all of this stuffhappening, that that like a year
is not that long of a time Forsure.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah.
So the inspiration I guess atthis point, man, it's there's
still enough.
It's still fresh enough as faras, like, my career and
everything goes, that like Istill half the time can't
believe that I get to do whatI'm doing, you know, and like
there's the inspiration thatcomes from just like oh, jelly
roll wants to like I just did amonth in like a month retreat
(40:37):
for a jelly roll album stuff andI'm like kind of the whole time
you're like man, I can'tbelieve that they're asking me
to go do this.
You know, it's like it'sexciting to be the guy that's
like getting the opportunity todo that, and like I do feel like
in certain ways I've had tolike learn how to balance that,
because you can't.
You can work too much and youcan.
You can definitely pushyourself too hard, but for the
(40:59):
time being it's been excitingstill, and I have a lot of gas
left in the tank.
I mean I'm only 29 years old,so it's like I have a lot of gas
left in the tank.
I mean I'm only 29 years old,so it's like I got a long road
ahead of me and so I feel likethere's a version where I'm
learning how to pace myself.
But I also feel like as timegoes on, I start to kind of like
identify ground that I haven'tcovered yet creatively and like
musically and like all differentkinds of stuff, and like
(41:21):
there's certain opportunitiesthat arise where you can do
musically stuff that you wouldnever even have thought of, like
at that jelly roll camp,because it's just like wide open
, a little bit.
Like me and Rocky block, forinstance, and Ben Johnson and
Hunter Phelps, we wrote a songthat was more like a Motown song
than it was a country song andyou're like man, we'll, like
let's see what happens if we didthis.
(41:42):
You know, same kind of mindsetwith Brunette, where you're like
let's push the boundary alittle bit, let's see where,
like nobody else seeminglythinks we should go and see if
we should take it there, andlike it might not even it
probably.
Like there's no guarantee thatthat'll even matter, but like
it's fun to do that and it's anexciting thing to have
opportunities like that and withthe forefront of music.
(42:07):
No, like this is, like this ishow we should be pushing the
genre forward at this point.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You know, and you're seeing so much of the blending
now too, I mean especially withcountry music, yeah, and like
brandon lake and post and likefor sure you know just all these
, all these like mixes of ofgenres.
So yeah, I love that and, ifanything, you wrote a Motown
song and you probably learned alot from it it's like oh yeah,
it's just uh, another, anotherfeather in the cap?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
definitely yeah, and it's just fun too, man, like
when you, when you dive in andyou're like it gets you back to
like why you even startedwriting music in the first place
.
You're like I didn't writesongs starting out just to be
like, like to get on.
I mean, obviously it's cool tobe on the charts and stuff, but
like that's not like the exactintention.
When I started writing I was.
I started writing cause it wasfun and I enjoyed hanging out
with the people I was writingwith.
(42:52):
And, like you, you createsomething that makes you feel
any type of way, whether it'shappy, sad or anything, and it's
you kind of can taste the powerof what, what you're doing when
you're.
When you're doing it and likesong, like that, where it's just
fun, you're just like why not,why not have a good time for
like two hours and it could endup being a great song, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So yeah, yeah, have you, uh, have you been able to
take a moment and just sit andreflect on everything that's
happened?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
not really uh, I haven't really yet after you man
?
Yeah, I have to I, I definitelydo need to.
I I'm trying to figure outright now how to exactly do that
, you know, because I feel like,um, at the moment, I haven't
really I, I don't know how to dothat very well.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, so, um, trying to guys like us don't sit still
very well.
So I mean I get that, but yeah,uh, yeah, I mean um, especially
just yeah, I mean you, yougotta, you gotta just find a
time to just just say thank you,Like I mean it's just uh,
definitely it's um uh.
And I guess at the same time,it's okay if you don't cause,
(43:55):
you're just crushing it, rightnow.
And at some point you'll beable to go.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
okay, let's look back at what I've done over the last
for sure, yeah, I do try tolike in the moment, I do try to
survey like how cool stuff is,at least for brief moments when
I'm in the midst of stuff.
You know, it's like I rememberthere was a time where, like at
the last Morgan Wallen record,when it was going on like we
were doing a session at nightand like Earn shows up and like
it's like me, rocky Charlie Earnand like Josh Miller, I think,
(44:29):
and like Earn just startsplaying cover songs and like
Morgan sitting there on thecouch singing along with him,
and I started looking at it.
I'm like man, this feels likeI'm in the middle of like a
documentary right now.
It doesn't feel like I'm like,it feels like I'm in a movie,
you know, and it's like I do tryto take moments in like that
where you're like it's just,these guys are both legends in
their own regard, that likepeople are going to be talking
about for forever.
And I'm I got a front row seatto watching this right now and I
don't it's it's.
I do try to take in thosemoments for sure, cause it's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, yeah, um, what's uh, what's next?
Do you have any uh anything biguh in the pipeline that you can
kind of tease?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
with man.
I think probably the jelly rollstuff is probably the biggest,
the biggest stuff coming up thatlike I've you know, I put
literally in July I was out oftown for like 17 out of the 31
days or something like that,working on jelly roll stuff.
Um, so hopefully there's somegood stuff that comes out of
that and other than that man,I've got like I'm kind of in a
season.
I look at my career twodifferent ways, like where it's
(45:19):
like there's the Morgan Wallenrecord season, where it's like
dive into that, and then, nowthat that's out and living its
life.
I'm in the season of likeswinging at everything again and
like trying to get everythinggoing on.
All the other artists that areamazing and like that I really
like working with, and so I'mhoping to just be able to like
to branch out to do differentgenres or do different, like I
did like stuff with latinamerican artists and stuff.
(45:41):
I do stuff, like you know, justtrying to do stuff that gets me
out of my comfort zone and getsme into lanes that I'm not as
like confident in, I guess.
So, yeah, hopefully some ofthat pans out and we get to hear
some some of that stuff Verycool.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, do me a favor and send Jelly and Morgan a text
.
Yeah, I want them on thispodcast.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I can try.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, yeah, just just tell them that we just need to
make it happen.
Yeah, yeah, awesome.
Well, dude, thanks again forbeing on.
You know I always end with thesame question and I can't do
that this time because I'vealready asked you that question.
So I'm going to flip it up.
And you know, the question isusually you can go back to eight
year old, you.
(46:21):
What advice would you giveyourself?
You, uh, what advice would yougive yourself?
Um, what I'd like to know iseverything that you've done in
the music industry uh, you know,whether it's a big artist, uh,
another, like hit songwriter,whatever what would you say?
The biggest piece of advicesomeone's given you is Ooh, wow,
(46:42):
that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Also, thank you for all the great questions.
You always ask great questions.
Oh, thanks, man.
Um, the best piece of advicesomebody has given me man,
there's a lot of ones along theway Uh, the one that came to
mind in the midst of ourconversation, uh, there was
Kevin.
Land is a publisher in town thatgave me some advice along the
way, um, and it actually fullcircle, kind of like ties back
(47:05):
into the like the dealer and allthat stuff.
He, he was one of those guysalong the way that like kind of
gave me the insight of the whyyou should still solo ride and
stuff, because a lot of the timepeople don't anymore once you
get into the rhythm of co-ridingand everything.
And he was like man, kind oflike what I was saying, that
that part of that podcast partwhere I was talking about why
you solo ride, that's kind offrom Kevin.
He was saying, like man, youget to fully see the potential
(47:30):
of what you're doing and you getto like, only lean on yourself.
And he's like and there's nobetter way to get it to be a
better writer than forcingyourself to do everything that
it takes to make a song, and sothat's like production, that's
like the lyrics, that's themelody, that's the phrasing,
that's the, the rhyme scheme,like, okay, so who's somebody's
good at rhyme scheme?
They're not there today, it'sjust you, are you going to be
(47:50):
able to do it?
And he, he gave me that adviceand encouraged me to continue
doing that along the way when Iwas, when I was young, and then
a season of time where it's like, okay, I'll, I'll spend a lot
of time doing that, and I thinkyou look at like the compounding
interest of that over time, youstart to get better faster.
Yeah, if you just kind of leanon yourself in those seasons and
bring it into co-writingsituations, pick out what your
(48:11):
co-writers do really well andsay, okay, I'm going to try and,
from a distance, learn fromthem now when I'm co-writing.
Because when I write songs bymyself, I know what jb is going
to say if I was writing it withhim.
In a way, I know what he wouldsay about the phrasing.
He would say, okay, it's notmatched up quite yet.
Let's keep pushing.
I know what Gorley's going tosay about, like, the simplicity
of the melody arc.
I know what Josh Thompson'sgoing to say as far as like it's
(48:33):
not going to be colorful enough.
I know what all these guys howthey're going to contribute in
like if I threw out this line,so I can almost do that
intrinsically when I'm writingby myself, and so that piece of
advice has been really helpfulon the way.
So good man, thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, yeah, blake, thanks so much for being a part
of this.
Um, yeah, it's, uh, it's beenawesome watching just what's
happened over the last yearsince we last talked on this, uh
, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
I appreciate it.
It's been great, it's been fun,and thank you for having me, as
always, and it's great talkingto you again, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Everybody out there.
Thanks so much for listening.
This has been another episodeof stories behind the songs.
I'm Chris Blair.
You've been listening to BlakePendergrass and we will see you
next time.
Thank you for listening toanother episode of stories
behind the songs with ChrisBlair.
Make sure to give us a followon Spotify If you enjoyed this
episode and make sure you clickthat notification button so you
(49:25):
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We release brand new episodesevery Tuesday and you can find
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The more we grow, the more thatwe can keep doing this.
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(49:49):
the songs from some ofNashville's most iconic artists
and songwriters, publishers,producers, everyone in between,
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Chris Blair.
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at sbtsongs, or check us out atchrisblaircom.
Welcome back, everybody, toStories Behind the Songs.
Today's guest is someone that Ihad on just about a year ago
(00:24):
and in that short time he hashad an incredible run.
He's got 15 credits on MorganWallen's I'm the Problem album,
including his first number one,plus cuts with Jelly Roll,
priscilla Block, Thomas Rhett,post Malone and many more.
I'm so glad to have him back.
Blake Pendergrass in the house.
How are you doing, brother?
Doing well?
(00:44):
Thanks to have him back.
Blake Pendergrass in the house.
How you doing, brother?
Doing well?
Thanks for having me back.
Yeah, man, you are the firstperson that we've had on Ed as a
second time.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm honored.
Yeah, I'm honored.
That's a huge, huge deal.
Yeah, man, glad to hopefully doit justice?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Absolutely it's.
You know, we started looking atthere's so many of these
episodes that I've said topeople, like I can't wait to
have you back in about a yearand see, see what happens and I
think I said that to you about ayear ago and, uh, you, you've
had just so much happen.
Uh, like I was just talkingabout.
And, um, one thing that Ididn't mention, uh in that
(01:17):
little intro is that you havecurrently, as we are sitting
here today filming this uh,which is middle of August, so
it'll be a couple weeks whenthis comes out, but right now
you have eight singles out onradio.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, eight on the charts?
Yeah, so on the Hot Countrychart, yeah, there's about eight
songs, which is insane.
It is, yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, it's wild, it's crazy.
So, man, let's just kind ofdive in and kick off.
I mean you, you recentlycelebrated your first number one
.
I did with Morgan.
That was a number one for fourweeks in a row.
I'm talking about the song,just In Case let's, let's talk
about what was it like justwatching that song climb all the
(02:02):
way to the top.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Man.
That was an exciting time forsure.
Morgan is one of those artiststhat once you have a single with
him that you feel prettyconfident as a writer that it's
going to make it to the top.
He's got such a good trackrecord at radio and he obviously
has such a big fan base andeverything.
Everybody loves his music.
So when I got the news that justin case was going to be a
single, it was like okay, I,just in case it was going to be
a single.
It was like okay, I kind of hadthe ability to like sit back a
(02:23):
little bit and be like I thinkthis one's going to ring the
bell and uh, and luckily it did,it didn't take too long, um it,
it really just shot up.
I think it took like anywhere,but I can't remember exactly but
like 12 weeks or something likethat to get to number one,
(02:48):
which was really fast.
So even just figuring, and youwrote that song with a, with a
pretty big crew, yeah,definitely yeah.
So it was kind of aninteresting process as far as
like how it came together.
We had a.
The original room was CharlieHandsome, john Byron, jay Cash
was technically a part of thelike beginnings of it with like
the idea and everything.
And then there was JoshThompson and Morgan, and so we
were set up in a B room at astudio where Morgan was
recording at the time andeverything and he would go
(03:11):
bounce back and forth between,like, the tracking room and the
writing room.
And so that idea had started.
Jb and Jay Cash had started anidea called Just In Case and
they'd written, I guess like achorus for it, that, uh, that
they showed to the JB had showedto, um, morgan, and Morgan
liked the title but he didn'treally like the whole, like the
way that it was written at thetime.
(03:32):
So we kind of just stripped itback to the title and and
rewrote the entire thing withthat room, um, and so from there
we got kind of a finished songand the next day Morgan recorded
what we had done and he livedwith it for a little bit, spent
about like two months or so,just kind of like listening to
it on his own time andeverything, and came back at
another retreat where he waslike man, I like everything but
(03:53):
the second verse.
I want to rework the wholesecond verse.
And so we were on a retreatwith me, him, charlie and Earn.
And so we pulled it up andredid the second verse, and
that's the song that there istoday.
Yeah, yeah, and redid thesecond verse, and that's the
song that there is today.
So, yeah, it was kind of like abig group of people for that
reason, but it worked out.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
And like what in his mind?
Like just in case, like whatwas some of the first
conversations around that?
Did it like end exactly whereit kind of started?
Or like, take me through theprocess of like, especially with
rewriting it a couple times, toget there?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah.
So we had kind of a um when westripped it back to just the,
the title it was kind of theconcept was just like I'd never
fall in love, just in case, andso like that, right, there was
enough to kind of jump off of umand we just had that lyric that
we went off of and so westarted playing different things
and um going back and forth inthe room and everything, and
once we got to the, the partthat we thought was going to be
(04:45):
the post-chorus, what we thoughtwe were writing, we ended it
with the just-in-case part andas time went on we just kept
talking about how the waylyrically the song was going.
It didn't seem like we weregoing to be able to hook the
song as a book-ended chorus orjust as an ending.
It almost felt likejust-in-case had to have more
information come after it, afteryou said it the first time, for
(05:05):
the song to make sense and belike as simple as it could be
lyrically.
And so we took what was thepost-chorus and brought it to
the front of the chorus and thenjumped off from there to see
what else melodically we coulddo, and it wound up being a song
where you kind of hook it inthe middle and at the end, which
is, I guess a little bitunconventional, but it worked
really well in this case forexplaining the lyric content and
everything.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So, yeah, yeah, great song man, what, uh, what was it
?
What was it like with, uh, yourphone when it went number one?
Was you just, were you blown up?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Man, it was crazy.
So I actually, at the same timethat it was going number one,
like the day after or the daybefore it went number one, I got
engaged so I didn't evenrealize that it was going number
one on the week it was going.
So I actually got a.
There's a guy named Chris Owenthat always tweets or Instagrams
the chart information everyweek and he tagged me in an
(05:54):
Instagram post and I didn't knowthe chart was even out yet.
It was on July 4th and becauseit was July 4th, they didn't
actually publish the chart tillthree days later.
But this guy tagged me and Iwas like is it real?
Is it like actually a thing?
And he was like it's for suregonna be number one, and so I
took his word for it and thenfrom there there was kind of a
little bit of a delay, I guess,because the chart actually
hadn't published.
That guy's like so tapped inthat he knows before everybody
(06:15):
else kind of a thing.
But me and JB called each otherand JB was on a like trip at the
time and we like had like along phone call just like
celebrating and talking about itand everything, which was
awesome because me and him beenwriting for, like at that at
this point, I guess like eightor nine years together, yeah,
and so to like have a firstnumber one for me, uh, with my
oldest friend in the musicbusiness is is incredible.
(06:36):
Um, yeah, man.
And then like we just uh, likethe group thread of the writers
and everything, we texted eachother and all congratulated, and
so it was.
It was a really great moment,for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I love it.
Uh, just in case you want toplay a little bit of it, yeah
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I ain't saying that I always sleep alone.
(07:09):
I ain't saying that I ain't metno one else Done a little bit
of midnight, moving on.
And I ain't saying, when I do,that it don't help Leave with
someone I don't know her name,pull her real close, but I leave
some space.
Yeah, I could forget you girlfor good, and even though I
(07:30):
should, I never let my heart goall the way.
Every time I try, I just hitthe brakes and there's always a
couple trying to take your place, but I never fall in love, baby
.
Just in case you wake upwanting me out of the blue, you
lay down eating, what I used todo every now and then I go get a
(07:53):
taste, but I never fall in love, baby, just in case.
Just in case, love it man, yeah, yeah, thank you, dude.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
When you're in a room , love it, man.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, thank you, dude .
When you're in a room likewriting that song with those
many voices, how do you findyour voice in a room like that?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, man, that's a great question.
Oddly enough, when you're in aroom with people that you work
with a lot, I like you sort ofkind of understand each, each
person's dynamic in eachperson's role.
And so me and jb, like I said,been working together for about
eight or nine years and so Iknow what jb's typical like
roadmap of like what he likes todo in a room.
And josh thompson and I alsohave been writing for a while
and Charlie, so everybody kindof fills into these gaps that
(08:45):
like, I guess, as time goes on,you just are kind of predictable
for like what, what your roleis going to be, and so a lot of
the time in that in thatparticular room, um, like,
obviously, like I said, jb hadthe idea of him and Jay cash,
and so from there it's kind oflike trying to like shift and
(09:07):
like guide the, the melody partand like JB's incredible melody,
incredible lyrics.
Like the cool thing about a roomlike that is like typically you
don't really need co-writers ina certain with certain writers,
like some of them are just sogood that they can do it without
you, and so like sometimes inthat when it's somebody else's
idea like that, I try to likeguide and help along, as opposed
to like just say, say no, ithas to be this way, it needs to
be this way.
I like to try to bring to lifewhatever vision the person with
(09:28):
the original idea had.
Um and and a lot of the times,especially with somebody like
Morgan in the room, likeMorgan's giving a lot of
guidance on what he wants it tobe, and so I'm kind of like,
kind of I'm taking like a 30,000foot view kind of role in that
room a lot of the time, whereI'm like trying to get everybody
on the same page and like alignit, because there's a lot of
(09:49):
different things happening, alot of different voices like
that.
So sometimes that's the mostimportant role to take.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
it's where you're, apparently you're a good
director oh, thank you, that oneworked out really well for
everybody.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Thank you, yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know if I
did, if I did as much directingas I just did didn't be a part
of a great song, but yeah, yeahuh, man, take me back.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Um, you, you went from writing 865 before you had
a pub deal.
Yeah, uh, to now you have 15cuts on morgan's record.
Yeah, yeah, crazy, how does?
How does that feel in like theperspective of just kind of
looking back over that that timeperiod?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
man, it's unbelievable.
Um, it's kind of one of thosethings I haven't like fully
wrapped my head around exactlyhow much has been accomplished
in this small amount of time.
You know, 865 was at a seasonwhere I was riding heavily but I
didn't have any sort of successbesides that.
And so for it to be working sowell and for it to feel like I
(10:42):
got my foot in the door and forpeople to have responded very
well to it is, I mean, it'shumbling in a lot of ways where
you're like man, people reallydo react to what I'm writing.
I believe that I'd get thereone day, but I never really I
kind of believe, but then you'realso like man, I'm not there
and what's it going to take.
And so now that I'm in and it'sactually working, it's like
it's fulfilling in a lot of waysthat like all that work and
(11:03):
belief in myself paid off.
Um, but yeah, man, I mean it'sthe 15 part about it is.
It was kind of it was notexpected.
That was not even a goal.
I was like I mean, I didn'tever set the goal to be like 15
songs on this album.
It just sort of fell into placeand as as the album started
shaping up.
It was like when morgan wouldrecord songs he was, it was a
lot of the times it was.
I'd go three for three on arecording session.
(11:25):
He'd record three songs andthree of them would be mine.
I didn't know exactly like whatwas happening in them.
I was like man, this is just, Ihad three yesterday, now I got
six.
Oh, now I got nine.
Now I got, and it just startedbeing like rapid fire recording.
So it was, it was prettyawesome.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That is awesome, yeah , um, and you went from I want
to move into a different song.
So you've got that song thatyou wrote with, you know, huge
group, yeah.
Then let's talk about theDealer yeah, and how special
that one is because you are 100%right around that one.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Thank you, man.
Yeah, that was the actual.
When it comes to goals, thatwas one of the biggest goals
that I ever set for myself asfar as a writer.
I always kind of thought thatit would be the pinnacle of like
proving to myself, just likebeing proud of myself, if I
could get a song recorded.
I wrote entirely by myself.
Throughout the years when I wascoming up and learning how to
write, I I would always look atthe credits, and anytime I saw a
(12:18):
song written by one person, itjust resonated with me and stuck
out as like man.
For like that person to sitdown and get it all the way
across the finish line, that'sjust incredibly impressive, and
so to have been able to do thaton this record was a huge honor.
I texted Morgan, he he textedme when it was like when he was
recording it, and I likeresponded I was like man, that's
bigger, that's a bigger deal tome than like if I got a Grammy
(12:41):
or if I got any like sort ofaward, just having a song
written by myself that somebodyreacted to.
So, yeah, man, I mean it's thatone, that one was the one for
me.
That like really was like man.
I feel, I feel like I did it,yeah, yeah, let's.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Let's talk about, uh, how you approach writing like
that when you're just at home oror whatever, by yourself.
I mean, you just talked about,like just in case, like all
these riders, and you kind ofyou knew all the riders Well,
you knew what their lane was,and you kind of sat back and
kind of like, jumped in as youneeded and kept everybody
focused on getting to the end.
(13:15):
Right, yeah, you can't.
When it's just you, right, likewhat's different, how do you,
how do you change your mindsetto sit down and come up with the
idea and take it to the finishline by yourself, yeah
definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
So that's part of the reason I really enjoy writing
by myself is because it's it's apure test of like, okay, say
that you don't have somebodythat's really good at melody in
the room, so you don't havesomebody that's really good at
lyric, Like, are you going to beable to like fill in that gap
in a co-writing situation?
And so, like, writing byyourself, there's no, there's no
wiggle room to lean on anybodyelse, and so I wasn't really
(13:50):
planning on writing a full song.
When, on the day that I wrotethe dealer, I was kind of like
in a season of feeling kind ofdefeated about like at that time
I didn't have any songs on thechart, didn't have any sort of
success, and I was aboutprobably like three years into
my publishing deal and startingto feel the pressure of like man
, I got to get, I got to getthis train rolling, or else it's
like I had always kind ofbelieved that you have a window
(14:12):
of opportunity and if you don'tcapitalize on it as a writer,
then it shuts.
And so I was kind of feelingthe pressure, that kind of
feeling like I talked to God alot about like all my career and
all of like everything, and soyou know, it was in a season
where I was kind of likeprocessing, where I was at with
God and I was just sitting downto essentially prove to myself I
can still write songs, I can.
(14:32):
I can do what I'm signing up todo, even though I didn't feel
like I was achieving what Iwanted to achieve.
And so I sat down and wrote thatdidn't have any idea or any
concept.
I just started kind of like offthe feelings that I was having
at the moment, started writingthat and it turned into that,
led me to the chorus, and it'sthat's the beautiful part about
I think again, like the faithpiece with songwriting is that
(14:56):
it's kind of a great templatefor walking with God in the
first place.
To me, it's like you startstepping out in faith, You're
like something's going to comeout of this, even though you
have no idea where it's going.
You start walking down thisroad and that's how I did.
I started with the chorus thatthe words were, you know, like
uh, and I I just led myself intothe, into the hook, and you
(15:16):
know it was one of thosesituations where God provided an
idea.
You know, it wasn't like I hadthis like clever thought that I
was aiming at and writingtowards the whole time.
It was just like, oh, the wordsthat I wrote led me here and
this is good enough for me tostop.
You know, this is a good goodstopping place.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
This is the hook, so I want to dig into that a little
bit more because it'sinteresting to me that it sounds
like.
So the dealer you didn't.
That was not the hook.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
No, I didn't have an idea.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You didn't know where you were going, so I want to
dive into that, but before I do,as I'm sitting here and
listening to you tell this story, I can see your eyes watering.
And this is obviously like veryemotional.
It's a big song.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, I love the song and and the, the testimony of
of just being proud in yourfaith and all that.
So, like what?
What is it about this, otherthan the fact that it's a solo
right?
Um, that's, that's making youfeel like this right now man.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I think it's the like , the reality that every
situation that I've had, whenit's been up and down in my
career, that I've leaned on Godand God's been there, and I
think that the song it wastrying to capture that essence,
without really trying to capturethat essence, because it wasn't
like I was sitting here beinglike, oh, I'm going to write a
song about God today.
It was like that was literallylike in the season I'd been in
(16:33):
that season before, where I'dbeen like felt defeated,
whatever you want to call it,and God got me out of that.
I mean, I remember when I was awaiter down the road.
I mean I would sit there andpray to God in the car before I
had any success and I would sitthere and be like man.
I don't know why, like I'm inthis season, I don't know why
I'm doing this thing, like,whatever the situation was, and
I always kind of felt the callof like, hey, just keep going.
(16:54):
You know it's like this iswhere I want you to be and one
of these days you're going tounderstand why.
And now that we're here, liketalking about success, it makes
sense, but like when you'rebefore that time period, it's
like man, what am I doing, youknow?
Like I mean, I've been here for13 years at this point, and so
for it to that sounds like along time, sounds like a short
(17:16):
time in some ways, but like whenyou actually are before success
.
For 13 years, you're just likeman, this is a long time, you
know, and so like for God tohave been there the whole time.
That's kind of why it's anemotional situation for me with
this kind of song, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, yeah, because he has been Dude.
I love that so much.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, absolutely, man Dude.
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Thank you for sharing that, yeah absolutely, man,
it's true, it's the reality.
We've known each other for awhile now and we were talking
earlier about you know how muchyou love being back home.
You know, in North Carolina,and your fiance is from there
too, and you know you weretalking about two hours to the
mountains, three hours to thebeach or vice versa, or
something like that three hoursthe beach or vice versa, or
(17:59):
something like that.
You know, and, um, it's, it'sgot to be so different.
You know, being being in aplace like nashville, the grind
of the music industry, yeah, theconstant up and downs, I mean
you can't, you can't do thisbusiness without, without some
thick skin, but a lot of faithdefinitely yeah, yeah for sure,
and I mean I truly wouldn't bedoing this if I didn't feel like
it was something that godcalled me to do and like wanted
me to be doing.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I mean that's the.
The thing I prayed more thananything on the way up was like,
man, just tell me to gosomewhere else, because this is
like this is too, too difficultto like not going the way I
wanted to go.
Like if, if you would have,like if I would have felt really
in my heart that like I wassupposed to do anything else I
probably would have, because itwas.
It was just it didn't work forso long.
But like, now that I'm here,it's like, oh, the impact that
(18:42):
the songs I'm writing are havingand like the stage that they
are getting sung on.
You know, it's like imagine if Iwould have just gave up and
like missed out on that and likemissed out.
I mean songs like the Dealer.
I mean I feel like hopefullypeople out there are resonating
with it in a way that like helpsthem get through life, and if I
would have given up, then theywouldn't be here.
You know, especially with songsthat like I mean I wrote by
(19:03):
myself, you know it's like, well, without me, then, something
like this that can help peoplewouldn't have existed.
And it's like a crazy thing tosee how God works throughout the
whole winding road to get youthere.
Yeah, man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I love this.
Yeah, this is exactly why, youknow, like we uh, we've had so
many hit songwriters, uh, hallof fame songwriters, you know,
and all of that um on thispodcast over the last uh, three
years or so now, and I love youknow, like this idea that I've
had and again you're the firstone that we've done it with but
like, where we're bringing inthese newer writers, it's like,
(19:37):
um, you know, there's been times, like fully transparent, where
I've thought I wonder if thelisteners out there are really
enjoying this as much, because,like, we're not diving into like
five huge number one songs thateverybody knows.
On certain episodes, you know,it's like, hey, let's talk about
like, what it was like firstgetting to town and your first
pub deal and everything that wetalked about.
You know, on the first episode,um, and then you know just
(20:00):
hearing, you know just howyou're talking about all of this
stuff, and then about a yearlater, you're in that seat.
You know now it's like you'vegot, you've got the number one,
you've got, you know, eightsongs out on uh on the charts
right now.
It's just, it's, it'srollercoaster.
This is this is uh, this is whatI wanted to get to man.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So thank you, absolutely, man.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Okay, so let's go back to the dealer.
Uh, so you don't have the hook.
Uh, you just sit down.
So, like, take me, take me into.
Like if you, if you didn't havethe hook, like where, where,
where was it going?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Like, did you just?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
pick up your guitar and just start scatting, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I literally sat down and the first thing that I
said was there's been a fewdays I've outfolded, you know,
and like that's, like that's theseason, that I mean that's just
.
At that point I'm like man, Imean I'm, I'm just in this time
of like that's what I wanted todo was just give up.
So, like there's been a fewdays I've outfolded and it was
almost like again it'sprocessing like your emotions
(21:01):
through the situation.
You're like, but I'm not goingto do that.
But I found one more card toplay.
Like it was like literally likelive version of, like what I
was and like re-encouragingmyself through a song.
I guess you could say yeah, andI just continue to write down
that road, you know, and it'slike it felt very true to the
season that I was in.
And as the song developed, youknow, it's like, oh man, I
(21:23):
slammed into the like.
I started thinking I was like,okay, time to write the last
line of the song.
What's it going to be?
You know, it's like and Ilooked at the last, the three
lines before, and I was like allthese are about cards in some
way, shape or form, and like Idon't know, it just like, for
some reason, like it fell out.
And again, for me to take allthe credit as a song that's a
hundred percent written by me,it's like it's really not.
(21:43):
You know, it's like it'sthere's a whole element of God
being there with you the wholetime when you're writing a song
like that.
And I think that in a lot ofways that I mean God just gave
me a good song.
You know, it's like I didn't.
I mean, yeah, I wrote it down,but like it's not.
Like I'm sitting there, I'm notsome genius.
That was like look at what Idid.
You know, it's like it just Iprocessed emotions and God gave
(22:05):
me something that can turn intoa gift for other people, and so,
yes, it's 100 percent writtensong, but like kind of not,
because God's there with me, youknow, and so like, yeah, man,
it was really just walkingaround in the dark and that's
where I landed.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I've got a song that I wrote several years ago called
why Don't you Fall, and it was.
that was one of those for meit's the only time that's ever
happened, but I, you know, Iremember, you know the struggles
and like chasing the lyrics andall of this on every song I've
ever written.
Yeah, and that song truly don'tremember writing the song Like
it was For sure.
It was one of those thingswhere I like my, my hands moving
(22:42):
and and writing stuff down,yeah, and all of a sudden it's
like I look at this piece ofpaper and it's like and here it
is, when did this come from?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
So so it is, uh uh, you had the co-writer in God.
I love that man For sure.
Yeah, and I do feel likethere's a world where it's like
I think biblically, like yourgifts are supposed to be used in
a way, that like are worshipfulin a way, and it's like that's
kind of the way that felt, feltlike it was just like kind of in
a communion with God, whereit's like I'm doing what you've
(23:11):
called me to do and I'm going todo it to the infinite best of
my ability right here in thissituation, and it like it's like
it worked out, I think, as aresult.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So yeah, let's hear a little bit of it.
Yeah, absolutely, this is thedealer.
Yeah, I'm morgan wallen.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I got a million questions like why the hell
can't heaven be on earth?
And why do good folks have tohurt?
Why is life a lesson?
Why does every single blessinghave a curse?
And why does love take so muchwork?
And why does Mom and Daddy'shair have to turn gray?
(24:08):
Guess everyone's got reasonswhy their shoulders carry weight
.
There's been a few days I'veoutfolded I found one more card
to play been a few days.
I was hopeless and I'll be damnI drew an ace.
Guess that's life.
And that's why I remind myselfto spend more time talking to
(24:30):
the dealer than worrying aboutthe hands I'm dealt.
The hands I'm dealt.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Like.
That's such a great song, man.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Yeah, dude, thank you.
Yeah, this episode is broughtto you by AllClear Audio.
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there listening takes advantageof this and enjoys them as well.
Let's talk about a song thatyou currently have out.
(25:50):
Yeah, I think it's in the top10 now.
Yeah, and Jelly Roll is allover the place.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Man, he is just everywhere yeah, so uh, let's
talk about heart of stone thankyou, yeah, yeah, heart of
stone's a good one man, um, likeyou said, it's, it's climbing
the charts, it's doing its thing.
It's fun to watch.
Um, and that one came aboutfrom a retreat we were doing in
franklin, tennessee, um, and sozach crowell was producing jelly
roll at the time and and heessentially called me up and
(26:19):
he's been always great,especially with me and I think,
in a lot of ways with newerwriters, have always like
plugging them into theopportunities that he has and
like finding the benefit of likehaving fresh ideas and fresh
lyrics and all that stuffwhenever he can.
And so he called me, eventhough I didn't at the time have
really any reason being there.
I mean, I wasn't likeaccomplished in a great way, he
(26:40):
just liked what I did, zach did.
And so he called me, wanted meto be there, and I was there for
the.
I think it was a three dayretreat.
I was there the whole time androoms were rotating around, we
were in different pairings alongthe way and this particular
song, heart of Stone, was me,zach Crowell and Shai Carter and
Jelly.
And uh, the whole time Zach hadbeen talking about how he
wanted to do, sort of like an uh, an Avicii style thing for
(27:02):
Jelly Roll.
He thought it would be a cool,cool, I guess template to go off
of.
And so he had pulled up a trackthat he had started working on
a little bit and like a kind ofjust a like loose melody and it
was just Zach literally singingin Pro Tools and it was just
like.
It was like literally like thatwas all.
It was like a mumble and likethe melody and like I'm wide
awake and I'm dreaming, and hewas like I don't know what it is
(27:23):
, but he's like it, just itseems cool.
And we were, me and Shy, werelike yeah, dude, that it felt
like it could work for JellyRoll in some context.
And so I think Zach was likeman, let's run off of that.
And like we started piecing ittogether.
We did the chorus first and wejust started again kind of like
(27:49):
walking around in the dark withthat one where it was like
singing melodies and like we gota melody map, kind of going
where it was the chorus templateand everything, and started
piecing together words andseeing where it led and it
worked out.
And then Jelly.
Obviously his input on that isso essential because he's, I
think we had our instincts wherewe wanted to take it in, and
lyrically, he continuously waspushing us.
(28:09):
He was like man, he wanted itto be more poetic, more unique,
more different, more than only asong that Jelly Roll could sing
.
And so he can get away withsinging lyrics that not a lot of
people can, and in a way that'slike an honest, real fashion.
And so he, every time, with theverses and if it wasn't like
very profound sounding, like itwasn't good enough yet.
(28:30):
And so we spent a lot of timehashing that out and we got it
to a verse chorus state and thenwe came back later, later on.
That was how we were doing theretreat.
We're doing like verse choruses, to see if there was anything
worth jumping off of from there.
But yeah, it worked out, wefinished it up and it it landed
on the album.
So did you know, jelly, beforethat man?
I did, I.
I I met him beforehand, butlike he had forgotten that we'd
(28:51):
met, I guess, so like I'dwritten with him one time at his
house before the retreat, andthen when I showed up to the
retreat, he was like.
He was like hey, man, I'm jellyroll, and I was like oh, I'm
Blake.
I was like we've already met,we've already written a song,
and but it was.
It was totally fine, but it wasvery memorable song that you
guys wrote.
(29:12):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly,not a, not a winner on off and
like we started having, it wasinteresting Me and Jelly have,
like I feel like a uniquedynamic where it's like he's
he's always kind of like, Ithink, gravitated towards lyrics
that I write, but he also, likewe have a like joking back and
forth relationship with eachother, which is which is fun.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So yeah, do you find yourself writing differently, or
even holding back, or anythinglike that, when you're in a room
with an artist like Jelly?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Man, I do think that you have to.
You have to write differentlyfor sure.
So, like again with the dealer,it's like there's really no
pressure in any situation towrite that any particular way,
so you can write that purely asa song and then you kind of just
get to show it for what it isand if people like it, then they
like it.
But with an artist you're verymuch so like it's.
It's in your best interest andin everybody's best interest to
(30:03):
make sure that you bring theirvision to life.
Yeah, because they're theperson singing it, they're the
person that's representing it,and so, yeah, you have to be
very, I guess you would say,receptive and perceptive as well
to what they want to say.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Receptive and perceptive as well to what they
want to say.
So, yeah, definitely.
And I mean, talk to me a littlebit more about the direction
from Jelly in a role in a likein a room like that.
Yeah, was it kind of right offthe bat where it felt good?
I mean, you're only, you'relike, okay, let's do a verse
chorus and see how it fits.
Yeah, you know was, was Jellyreally into it?
And and how how does an artistthe room in those situations?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I think that a lot of the times in my experience you
don't really know if the artistloves it or doesn't like it you
know, so you're, even whenyou're writing it.
You're like there's almost likea completion mindset a lot of
the time where people just wantto finish a song, and so
sometimes you you're justfinishing a song to finish a
song, and other times you'refinishing it because they really
like it and it's.
(31:03):
I think oftentimes when you'rewriting something, it's too soon
to tell as far as, like whenyou haven't lived with it, when
you haven't seen what, like, theimpact it is over the course of
a week or a month, um, it'shard to tell, and so you gotta
wait till you're two weeks inand you're humming something in
the shower exactly wait, what isthat?
oh, exactly, maybe this song'scool for For sure For sure, but
Jelly is, especially with anysong he's very involved in like
(31:29):
wanting, like I said, to beunique and different.
And so with that song inparticular, I remember there's
the line in the first versewhere it's like there's like
there's metal in my veins andit's running like the river
filled with all my mistakes, andhe was like that's what I'm
talking about.
Like he was like that's what weneed to be doing the whole time
, like, and he's like very, veryparticular on that.
And so it does.
(31:49):
It has a huge benefit as far asthe co-writing side of things,
cause if, if you don't have anartist like that, that's like
really dialed in, then you'rekind of you're kind of just
shooting at the wall and hopingthat it sticks.
But whenever somebody has got areally adamant like box that
they want it to fit in it's,it's helpful for sure, and what
do you think it is about thatsong that's resonating with, uh,
the fans right now, man, Ithat's all.
(32:13):
That's a good question.
I think that the uh, I thinkthe feeling of it is a very
powerful thing.
I think zach was on tosomething with like the like
up-tempo nature of like.
It almost has a little bit oflike a folk americana like
undertone to it, with it's likeacoustic guitar driven.
I think that that like just inthe marketplace right now, I
think a lot of people like musicthat sounds like that and it
(32:33):
kind of taps into a jelly rollversion of that.
Yeah, um, which I think is oneof the reasons.
I also think that it's it's oneof those songs.
Again, it's from the impetuswhen, uh, when zach started
singing it, that that top of thechorus is just like what
exactly does it mean?
But it makes you feel something.
I'm wide awake but I'm dreamingand you're like OK, if you dive
too deep into that, you're likeI don't know what that means,
(32:55):
but it also it just makes youfeel it hits you in the.
It's got specific lyrics thatare very thought through and
then it's got the lyrics thatare like that are all based on
(33:15):
emotion, and so I think it kindof captures a wide range of
people for that reason.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
But let's hear a little bit of that one.
Yeah, dear Lord, can you helpme?
I'm falling out of grace.
I'm crawling back to heavenFrom this hell on earth I made.
My blood has gotten heavy.
There's metal in my veins.
It's running like the river,filled with all of my mistakes
On my knees.
I'm looking up.
(33:46):
I need a different kind of drug.
I'm wide awake and I'm dreaming, wondering where and when I
fell apart.
Oh, I fell apart.
I've had enough of my demons,and angels only meet you where
you are.
(34:06):
I'm in the dark.
At least for now, lord, I ain'tlosing hope.
Somehow you can make a heart ofgold from this heart of stone,
this heart of stone.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Come on, I love it, dude.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Thank you All right.
Well, we've talked about MorganJelly.
You know obviously huge namesin the industry.
I want to kind of flip andwe've got time to let's dive
into one more song, and I wantto talk about brunette yeah, uh
tucker wetmore is one of thenewest voices in country right
(34:52):
now.
Yeah, um, and I want to talkabout, uh, you know what it's
like collaborating with anartist that's just breaking
through, right, um, you know,versus like being in a room with
like and Jelly.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So with Tucker, it's one of those situations.
Brunette was with a guy namedChase McGill, josh Miller and
Chris LaCour, and so that was anoutside pitch situation as far
as getting the song to him andeverything.
But me and Tucker are actuallysigned to the same company as
far as the publishing and wherehis label is also at Backblocks
(35:26):
Music is what it's called, andso I've actually known Tucker
for quite a while.
I've known him since before hewas kind of on anybody else's
radar because he was on Rekia'sradar who's our mutual person
that we had, and so it's beenreally interesting to see and
really cool to watch, likesomebody that literally, like I
met him, I I think probably likea month or two in to when he
moved to town, which was cool,um, and then to see the arc that
(35:47):
he's taken, it's impressive.
You know what I mean he's gotlike at this point I haven't
seen his shows, but like fromthe videos you're like man, this
guy's like selling out tons oftickets, selling tons of
different, uh, different sizerooms and everything.
It's really really cool towatch and so but but yeah, as
far as breaking out with that,it's uh, there's a different
mindset there because you'rekind of like you're trying to
(36:07):
figure out how to like offer asong that gives them a lane kind
of a thing and gives them like,sort of like.
At that time they're like,they're developing, they're kind
of finding their footing.
What do they want to sound like, what do they want to do?
And so as a writer, you kind ofhave a little bit more of like
a wider thing to aim at.
You know, it's like it's not aslike focused yet.
So brunette was one of thosewhere we were just that room, we
(36:30):
were just trying to write.
Honestly, we were just tryingto write the craziest thing we
could write as far as like andit wasn't with anybody in mind
at the time, it was just likelet's write a crazy song that,
like morgan maybe could do, orlike that like nate smith could
maybe do, or that, like whoeverlike that could find a spot with
somebody that wanted to take a,a wild swing with a song.
Where did that hook come from?
(36:51):
So that was josh miller's idea,um, and so he pretty much had
the idea.
It was the simple concept oflike.
You know, like you've beendating so many blondes and
they've all been screwing youover like about time I try to
find a brunette and like it waslike lyrically that simple.
And then we just were like,okay, let's push the musical
like boundaries of, like countrymusic right now, let's see what
(37:13):
we can do.
And so we started.
We made it way too fast, one offor one, like as far as like
when we were writing it it wasjust like that's fast, let's do
this, let's make it even faster.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
It kind of reminds me of like cash yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, we were just trying to literally, so that was
intentional.
Like okay, so now, like howmany words can we slam into it?
And like we just tried to dothings that were unconventional
in on purpose.
Yeah, and we wrote it and wewere all like man, this is crazy
.
And so I think we like went asfar as we all could imagine at
the time, you know, and then itturned into brunette.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
So was that one that, uh, I mean you're just in a
room like that just having funpushing limits.
Uh, does that make the writingprocess go faster or slower for
you?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Kind of faster man, because it's like when you're
doing it, especially with thatgroup, like that group is like
those guys are so talented, youknow.
So like it's.
It wasn't like we were sittingthere messing with vibes, it was
like chase had this like guitarpart, it's like boom, that's
cool, like.
And so you're kind of based onin that situation.
Instead of like being reallynitpicky, you're just being like
how excited you are aboutwhenever you hear something, and
(38:14):
so it's actually really fast,because you're like that's,
that's awesome.
Let's just see where that goes.
And like it's exploratorywriting more than it is like it
has to fit into this parameter,you know, and it's like as long
as it's cool, you can just moveon and keep going.
And so, like josh spit out likethe like and he's like that
sounds like we were all likethat sounds cool.
(38:35):
Let's just do that, you knowit's like we weren't like
cycling through a bunch ofdifferent melodies and lyrics
and all this stuff until itworked.
Yeah, we're just like going offof instinct and what we thought
was cool.
Yeah, can we?
Can we hear a little bit of?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
that one Sure.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, this one's fast .
I can't play it like Chase asfar as the guitar part, but I
can try, okay.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Lord knows, I got a type and there's a few in here
tonight.
I've learned my lesson.
Too many times blondes like youput me through hell and I need
something new.
I need a fine five, five, five.
North side of the mason dixonline, kind ain't climb up in the
(39:21):
four-wheel drive.
It's lifted.
Never been fishing, never beenmudding.
Gotta be, gotta be one thatdoesn't remind me.
Are you there beside me?
I need to find me a brunette.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Let's go man.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Crazy song.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah dude so fun.
Yeah, well, man, let's.
I want to reflect a little bitas we kind of wrap things up.
You know it was awesome havingyou on.
You know, like I said about ayear ago, what, what is it that
keeps you inspired?
I mean, we talked a little bitabout, you know, your faith and
just the drive and the ups anddowns and all that.
(40:02):
But like you keep showing upand riding at a fast pace and
you've got all of this stuffhappening, that that like a year
is not that long of a time Forsure.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah.
So the inspiration I guess atthis point, man, it's there's
still enough.
It's still fresh enough as faras, like, my career and
everything goes, that like Istill half the time can't
believe that I get to do whatI'm doing, you know, and like
there's the inspiration thatcomes from just like oh, jelly
roll wants to like I just did amonth in like a month retreat
(40:37):
for a jelly roll album stuff andI'm like kind of the whole time
you're like man, I can'tbelieve that they're asking me
to go do this.
You know, it's like it'sexciting to be the guy that's
like getting the opportunity todo that, and like I do feel like
in certain ways I've had tolike learn how to balance that,
because you can't.
You can work too much and youcan.
You can definitely pushyourself too hard, but for the
(40:59):
time being it's been excitingstill, and I have a lot of gas
left in the tank.
I mean I'm only 29 years old,so it's like I have a lot of gas
left in the tank.
I mean I'm only 29 years old,so it's like I got a long road
ahead of me and so I feel likethere's a version where I'm
learning how to pace myself.
But I also feel like as timegoes on, I start to kind of like
identify ground that I haven'tcovered yet creatively and like
musically and like all differentkinds of stuff, and like
(41:21):
there's certain opportunitiesthat arise where you can do
musically stuff that you wouldnever even have thought of, like
at that jelly roll camp,because it's just like wide open
, a little bit.
Like me and Rocky block, forinstance, and Ben Johnson and
Hunter Phelps, we wrote a songthat was more like a Motown song
than it was a country song andyou're like man, we'll, like
let's see what happens if we didthis.
(41:42):
You know, same kind of mindsetwith Brunette, where you're like
let's push the boundary alittle bit, let's see where,
like nobody else seeminglythinks we should go and see if
we should take it there, andlike it might not even it
probably.
Like there's no guarantee thatthat'll even matter, but like
it's fun to do that and it's anexciting thing to have
opportunities like that and withthe forefront of music.
(42:07):
No, like this is, like this ishow we should be pushing the
genre forward at this point.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You know, and you're seeing so much of the blending
now too, I mean especially withcountry music, yeah, and like
brandon lake and post and likefor sure you know just all these
, all these like mixes of ofgenres.
So yeah, I love that and, ifanything, you wrote a Motown
song and you probably learned alot from it it's like oh yeah,
it's just uh, another, anotherfeather in the cap?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
definitely yeah, and it's just fun too, man, like
when you, when you dive in andyou're like it gets you back to
like why you even startedwriting music in the first place
.
You're like I didn't writesongs starting out just to be
like, like to get on.
I mean, obviously it's cool tobe on the charts and stuff, but
like that's not like the exactintention.
When I started writing I was.
I started writing cause it wasfun and I enjoyed hanging out
with the people I was writingwith.
(42:52):
And, like you, you createsomething that makes you feel
any type of way, whether it'shappy, sad or anything, and it's
you kind of can taste the powerof what, what you're doing when
you're.
When you're doing it and likesong, like that, where it's just
fun, you're just like why not,why not have a good time for
like two hours and it could endup being a great song, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So yeah, yeah, have you, uh, have you been able to
take a moment and just sit andreflect on everything that's
happened?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
not really uh, I haven't really yet after you man
?
Yeah, I have to I, I definitelydo need to.
I I'm trying to figure outright now how to exactly do that
, you know, because I feel like,um, at the moment, I haven't
really I, I don't know how to dothat very well.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, so, um, trying to guys like us don't sit still
very well.
So I mean I get that, but yeah,uh, yeah, I mean um, especially
just yeah, I mean you, yougotta, you gotta just find a
time to just just say thank you,Like I mean it's just uh,
definitely it's um uh.
And I guess at the same time,it's okay if you don't cause,
(43:55):
you're just crushing it, rightnow.
And at some point you'll beable to go.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
okay, let's look back at what I've done over the last
for sure, yeah, I do try tolike in the moment, I do try to
survey like how cool stuff is,at least for brief moments when
I'm in the midst of stuff.
You know, it's like I rememberthere was a time where, like at
the last Morgan Wallen record,when it was going on like we
were doing a session at nightand like Earn shows up and like
it's like me, rocky Charlie Earnand like Josh Miller, I think,
(44:29):
and like Earn just startsplaying cover songs and like
Morgan sitting there on thecouch singing along with him,
and I started looking at it.
I'm like man, this feels likeI'm in the middle of like a
documentary right now.
It doesn't feel like I'm like,it feels like I'm in a movie,
you know, and it's like I do tryto take moments in like that
where you're like it's just,these guys are both legends in
their own regard, that likepeople are going to be talking
about for forever.
And I'm I got a front row seatto watching this right now and I
don't it's it's.
I do try to take in thosemoments for sure, cause it's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, yeah, um, what's uh, what's next?
Do you have any uh anything biguh in the pipeline that you can
kind of tease?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
with man.
I think probably the jelly rollstuff is probably the biggest,
the biggest stuff coming up thatlike I've you know, I put
literally in July I was out oftown for like 17 out of the 31
days or something like that,working on jelly roll stuff.
Um, so hopefully there's somegood stuff that comes out of
that and other than that man,I've got like I'm kind of in a
season.
I look at my career twodifferent ways, like where it's
(45:19):
like there's the Morgan Wallenrecord season, where it's like
dive into that, and then, nowthat that's out and living its
life.
I'm in the season of likeswinging at everything again and
like trying to get everythinggoing on.
All the other artists that areamazing and like that I really
like working with, and so I'mhoping to just be able to like
to branch out to do differentgenres or do different, like I
did like stuff with latinamerican artists and stuff.
(45:41):
I do stuff, like you know, justtrying to do stuff that gets me
out of my comfort zone and getsme into lanes that I'm not as
like confident in, I guess.
So, yeah, hopefully some ofthat pans out and we get to hear
some some of that stuff Verycool.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, do me a favor and send Jelly and Morgan a text
.
Yeah, I want them on thispodcast.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I can try.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, yeah, just just tell them that we just need to
make it happen.
Yeah, yeah, awesome.
Well, dude, thanks again forbeing on.
You know I always end with thesame question and I can't do
that this time because I'vealready asked you that question.
So I'm going to flip it up.
And you know, the question isusually you can go back to eight
year old, you.
(46:21):
What advice would you giveyourself?
You, uh, what advice would yougive yourself?
Um, what I'd like to know iseverything that you've done in
the music industry uh, you know,whether it's a big artist, uh,
another, like hit songwriter,whatever what would you say?
The biggest piece of advicesomeone's given you is Ooh, wow,
(46:42):
that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Also, thank you for all the great questions.
You always ask great questions.
Oh, thanks, man.
Um, the best piece of advicesomebody has given me man,
there's a lot of ones along theway Uh, the one that came to
mind in the midst of ourconversation, uh, there was
Kevin.
Land is a publisher in town thatgave me some advice along the
way, um, and it actually fullcircle, kind of like ties back
(47:05):
into the like the dealer and allthat stuff.
He, he was one of those guysalong the way that like kind of
gave me the insight of the whyyou should still solo ride and
stuff, because a lot of the timepeople don't anymore once you
get into the rhythm of co-ridingand everything.
And he was like man, kind oflike what I was saying, that
that part of that podcast partwhere I was talking about why
you solo ride, that's kind offrom Kevin.
He was saying, like man, youget to fully see the potential
(47:30):
of what you're doing and you getto like, only lean on yourself.
And he's like and there's nobetter way to get it to be a
better writer than forcingyourself to do everything that
it takes to make a song, and sothat's like production, that's
like the lyrics, that's themelody, that's the phrasing,
that's the, the rhyme scheme,like, okay, so who's somebody's
good at rhyme scheme?
They're not there today, it'sjust you, are you going to be
(47:50):
able to do it?
And he, he gave me that adviceand encouraged me to continue
doing that along the way when Iwas, when I was young, and then
a season of time where it's like, okay, I'll, I'll spend a lot
of time doing that, and I thinkyou look at like the compounding
interest of that over time, youstart to get better faster.
Yeah, if you just kind of leanon yourself in those seasons and
bring it into co-writingsituations, pick out what your
(48:11):
co-writers do really well andsay, okay, I'm going to try and,
from a distance, learn fromthem now when I'm co-writing.
Because when I write songs bymyself, I know what jb is going
to say if I was writing it withhim.
In a way, I know what he wouldsay about the phrasing.
He would say, okay, it's notmatched up quite yet.
Let's keep pushing.
I know what Gorley's going tosay about, like, the simplicity
of the melody arc.
I know what Josh Thompson'sgoing to say as far as like it's
(48:33):
not going to be colorful enough.
I know what all these guys howthey're going to contribute in
like if I threw out this line,so I can almost do that
intrinsically when I'm writingby myself, and so that piece of
advice has been really helpfulon the way.
So good man, thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, yeah, blake, thanks so much for being a part
of this.
Um, yeah, it's, uh, it's beenawesome watching just what's
happened over the last yearsince we last talked on this, uh
, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
I appreciate it.
It's been great, it's been fun,and thank you for having me, as
always, and it's great talkingto you again, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Everybody out there.
Thanks so much for listening.
This has been another episodeof stories behind the songs.
I'm Chris Blair.
You've been listening to BlakePendergrass and we will see you
next time.
Thank you for listening toanother episode of stories
behind the songs with ChrisBlair.
Make sure to give us a followon Spotify If you enjoyed this
episode and make sure you clickthat notification button so you
(49:25):
can keep notified when newepisodes come out.
We release brand new episodesevery Tuesday and you can find
us on YouTube at Stories Behindthe Songs with Chris Blair or
anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Don't forget to send us acomment letting us know what you
thought of the episodes.
We love getting your feedbackand share this with your friends
.
The more we grow, the more thatwe can keep doing this.
It's our mission to bring youall these great stories behind
(49:49):
the songs from some ofNashville's most iconic artists
and songwriters, publishers,producers, everyone in between,
and a lot of my great friends.
We love what we do and we lovesharing their stories with you.
We appreciate all of thecontinued support.
Thanks also to all of oursponsors, and we will see you
all next week.
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