Ep 451: A conversation with Mack Brown

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Mack Brown shares his insights on coaching, mentorship, and the impact of personal loss in the lives of players. The discussion includes reflections on mental health, player recruitment, and the importance of building strong relationships beyond the football field.

• Importance of nurturing players into responsible adults 
• Heartfelt stories about the loss of former players 
• Emphasis on mental health support for athletes 
• Changing dynamics in college football with NIL and the transfer portal 
• Integrity and honesty as vital in the recruiting process 
• The rewarding aspects of mentorship throughout a coaching career 
• Gratitude and self-care as foundational for well-being

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Today is going to be an exciting day at the Hargrove
office as we bring in a localcelebrity.
Welcome the kicking phenom,Bert Auburn.
Conference champion of theTexas Longhorn football team,
all-conference kicker.
He's going to be our newspokesman.
Bert's the best kicker in theconference.
He plays for the TexasLonghorns, as you can see.
You know Bert's f***ing awesome.
Hey, Stevie.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Dude, you're really replacing me with a kicker.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
No, hey, Stevie Boo, you're really replacing me with
a kicker.
No, not at all man.
Hey guys, who wants a picturewith Stevie?
Anyone?
Stevie almost won a Big 12championship, Hargrove Roofing.
Know who's on your roof.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
But we do love you very much.
And last thing and I said thisat the first of the week I don't
want this to be the best thingthat's ever happened in your
life.
When you're 54, I don't wantyou to say winning a football
game is the best thing that everhappened in my life.
You'll have it and you'll be achampion for the rest of your
life.
You make sure that's one of thebest sports things in your life
.
But you promise me, if you'vegot enough about you to win a

(01:19):
national championship, you'vegot enough about you to be a
great citizen and a great rolemodel, a great father and a
great leader in your family, andthat's what we're looking for
when you get out of here.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
That's your college head football coach, d Matt
Brown, one of the most highlyrespected coaches.
That is part of the coachingfraternity.
When you see that speech, Iknow it was one year after your
final season as a Longhorn, butyou've got to have chills when
you hear him deliver thatmessage because coaching for him

(01:49):
was far greater than justfootball.
Yeah, man it was.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I remember that my wife and I was watching it all
together and I remember uswatching that later, seeing that
part later, and my wife has areally a lot of respect for
coach Brown and she saw that andshe was like that's just who he
is.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
I am Sean Clinch, the co-host, along with the Stevie
Lee, and we have a 15 year oldcat who jumped up here.
Well, you know, you didn't seeher.
Hey, if you didn't see it itdidn't happen.
But we're going to laugh, we'regonna be uh, educated on things
, we may cry a little bit andwe're gonna learn a lot.
and, stevie lee, I know this isspecial for you it is and, and I

(02:35):
want to tell you what, beforewe get into it, be sure to
follow us on each of our socialmedia platforms.
All of them, I can't keep upwith them.
There's so many.
But, stevie, enough with youand I talking about it.
You ready?
That's right.
That's right.
All right, guys, before webring in the Hall of Famer

(03:15):
himself, we definitely want togive a shout-out to Hardgrove
Roofing and each of our sponsorsof Stories Inside the man Cave
podcast.
And you know, stevie, they did,they were smart, not only
because you're from Shreveport,but you have that voice, that
face, and you deliver theirmarketing phrase like no other.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Hargrove Roofing Know who's on your roof.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
That's right.
They were on a couple of roofs,people I've known.
They did quality work and theyliterally knew them.
They came down and introducedthemselves very professional and
solid work.
And there is Coach Brown as weadjust our screens here.

(04:00):
Coach Brown, were youentertained at all by us trying
to be serious talking about you?

Speaker 5 (04:07):
No, not at all.
It's one thing you learn inthis business is it's really all
about relationships at the end,100%.
When Coach Royal got dementiaand he was in a home, I'd go see
him about every day and hedidn't remember that he was won

(04:29):
three national championships.
Last time he was in the stadiumhe asked where we were.
He didn't even know the stadiumwas named after him.
We were playing Wyoming.
He was the honorary coach.
He said coach, who's playing?
I said coach, it's Texas.
And Wyoming.
He said which one's Texas.
They knew nothing, but everyex-player that walked in his
room he knew their name thattells me that when you get

(04:54):
through coaching, what you, whatyou have is relationships,
whether it's shown with you, themedia, whether it's the
friendships you make or thelifetime that you you have with
your players and ex players.
And then you add summer Um, Imean, she's family too and she's
a cheerleader.
But we, what you get as a coachfor 37 years, as a head coach

(05:17):
and I think 12 is an assistant.
You have family members, yep,and we want to see their
children and we want to see them.
We want to see them smile andwe want to see their children
and we want to see them.
We want to see them smile andwe want to make sure they're
okay.
And what you get out ofcoaching is that you might have
had a small piece of that,trying to help them be a great
father and husband and have awonderful life.

(05:40):
And that's what you really getas a coach and that's what
Stevie means to us.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
I really, really appreciate you saying that.
Coach, you know back and we'llget into this a little bit later
, but I got to say this.
You know, back when we lostCole Pittman at the University
of Texas, I knew, I always knewthat Coach Brown cared, and
actually Miss Sally cared agreat deal in the whole
recruiting process.
That's why I came here.

(06:07):
But the other thing was whenall that happened, you know back
, nowadays, you know, no one'safraid of the NCAA, but back
then they were pretty powerfuland they would slap your hand.
They would, you know, send outsanctions and fines and things
like that.
So no one really messed withthe NCAA.

(06:27):
But when we needed Coach Brown,coach didn't care right.
He was like come to my house ifyou need to Bring your
girlfriend, who's now my wife,and if you need anything, come
and holler at us, let me know.
Because we were all grievingand we were grieving together
and he wanted us to be, not tobe, alone and wanted us to be

(06:48):
with with him.
And I get home to my apartmentand my girlfriend's there summer
.
And you know I said coach waslike you know, if we wanted to
come to his house, he didn'tcare about NCAA rules or
anything like that.
He just wanted, you know,wanted us to have a place to go.
We didn't take you up on thatoffer, but it was good to have

(07:09):
it.
And then the other thing is Iwanted to get home to my family.
Cole and his family werefriends of ours.
My family and I just wanted toget home.
So Coach Brown put me andPhillip on the Purple Pride.
The Purple Pride is RedMcComomb's airplane and I was
like I'm looking around.
I was like I want to own an NFLfootball team, you know.

(07:30):
And so it didn't matter therules of the NCAA, because he
wanted to take care of his kids.
His kids meaning us players.

Speaker 5 (07:42):
I remember Stevie went when DeLoss died.
I said what can we do to helpthe mental health of our team,
because they're struggling andit's hard to lose anybody.
You don't want to lose a21-year-old and you don't want
to lose a friend At your age.
You sure aren't in a positionwhere you're ready for this.

(08:03):
In coaching there's no manualthat talks about losing a player
.
So DeLoss said we're going totake care of these players.
We're going to fly them to thefuneral whoever wants to go.
And he said I don't care.
We obviously always would go byNCAA rules.
We do everything right.
But he said for the mentalhealth of this football team and
these players, you do whateveryou need to do to make sure

(08:27):
they're okay and they're safe.
And it's um, um, I remember itlike it was yesterday Yep, you
know you, that doesn't go away.
And and the Pittman's, judy andMark and and chase, the, the
brother, and um, I mean I justfor you out there that have lost
a child.
God bless you, man.
I just I can't imagine and itwas funny.

(08:50):
Mark Pittman said people comeup and say I know how you feel
and he said you really don'tunless you've lost a child.
Well, coach Royal lost twochildren and he walked up to
Mark and here here's two big menand they start crying, because
Coach Royal said Mark, I do knowhow you feel, man, I do know
how you feel I lost two, yeah,and people shouldn't have to go

(09:13):
through with that.
So just, and I remember Marksaying and I know we'll talk
about that later that when youlose a child, at least let's
learn from it, let's make itgood for something, because none
of us, we were all justdevastated.
Yeah.
And the young man we had atNorth Carolina this year died

(09:37):
after two and a half years ofcancer.
Cole was a phone call onemorning the day before we're
starting spring practice andwe're all like, wow, yeah,
didn't even get to say goodbye.
So a lot of life's lessonsthrough, through this for many
years.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
Yeah, and that's part , unfortunately, you know, I
think coaches a lot of peoplewho have never played a sport or
at any level.
Coaches are much more than thatand you definitely are an
example of father figurefiguring out ways to turn

(10:14):
people's lives around.
It's not just a scholarship,it's mentoring.
There's so many hats you wearand your staff and you have
changed lives, and I was doingsome research trying to figure
out some of some former playersof yours and I I just stumbled
upon there was a story I want tosay it was out of the kansas

(10:36):
city newspaper, talking aboutjust that how many lives you had
changed, and I think that was.
It was in 2009 when that waswritten and it made me think of
my high school coaches.
If it weren't for them, when,after my dad passed, there's no
I don't think I'd be who I amtoday.
I probably would have becomesomebody undesirable or had a

(10:59):
lot of tough luck.
And, coach, thank you for whatyou did for so long out of.

Speaker 5 (11:06):
Tough luck, and, coach, thank you for what you
did for so long.
Well, thank you, sean.
It's interesting that you, uhwe, we started a little slogan
that it's not a four-yeardecision, it's 40.
Yeah, so if you're gonna dothis, we're gonna do it for a
lifetime.
So don't, don't come, unless youwant us to be hang around,
because you're not getting ridof us and even now, with the
transfer portal and some kidstransferring, we've said if it's

(11:27):
best for you to transfer andyou can't play here, but you
want to go somewhere else, we'restill in, don't worry about it.
We'll help you any way we canand we've always thought that
you'd like to enhance lives and,in some cases, save lives.
We were in the mountains ofNorth Carolina when we first
went to North Carolina in 2019.

(11:47):
One of our best friends had ason kill himself.
It was suicide.
He shot himself.
So Sally and I were scared.
We ran right back to our team.
We didn't know him that welland we're trying to get to know
them.
And we said, listen, suicide'stough.
And we're trying to get to knowthem.
And we said, listen, suicide'stough.
And I know it's selfish because, friends, I just saw it, I just

(12:10):
went through it it hurtsfriends, it hurts parents.
So if you're struggling I'm nota psychiatrist, I don't know
how to handle this or what tosay, but I do know if you're
struggling, let's get you tosomebody who knows how to help
you and do it.
And there's a young man thatcame upstairs right after that
and said Coach, I was on abridge last night.
He said you just got myattention.

(12:32):
His name is Jake Lawler.
It's been an ESPN story, so hedoesn't mind me using his name.
He said I'm really struggling,I need help.
Now he's a screenwriter forDisney and doing really, really
well.
I constantly tell coaches becareful what you say, because
somebody's listening, yep.
And now all the older guys thatcome back and tell me remember

(12:55):
what you said when I was asophomore.
Remember when you came to thatfuneral when my mother was sick
and Coach, that changed my life,when my mother was sick and
Coach, that changed my life.
And so you've got to be really,really careful with these young
guys.
When you tell them something,that you mean it and that you
follow up.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
Yep, yeah, that is so true, especially right now.
I hate to use the term epidemic, but mental health has reached
that level in this country andthere's not enough solutions,
there's not enough resources.
But sports coaches, male andfemale, play big roles in

(13:33):
reversing those lives and thoseare great examples that coach
Brown mentioned.
Stevie, I know I pulled this upand I know coach Brown is proud
, but of those accomplishmentsand I know Texas fans looking at
that record versus those rivals, they're happy about that.
But I got to ask Coach, youkind of created the transfer
portal before it was even athought playing running back at

(13:57):
both Vanderbilt and FSU.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
Well I did.
It was really interesting.
The coaches, atanderbilt, liedto me about my brother.
Oh no, and I was, uh, I was astarting tailback as a sophomore
and my brother was a greatquarterback, watson, a year and
a half older than myself, and hehurt his knee and they said
we're going to move him to widereceiver.
Why don't you go tell him which?

(14:22):
They shouldn't have done thatanyway.
They should have told him.
And he's in the hospital.
So I go, said listen, thecoaches told me to come and tell
you.
And he yells at me and sayswhat do you mean?
And then they went over andtold him that's not true.
We didn't tell mac that.
So I said I'm not going to stay, for anybody that's not going
to tell me the truth so as asophomore.

(14:42):
I walked in as a start andtailback I said guys, and they
said well, we just you justmisunderstood us.
I said no, no, no, no.
I, you told me to do it, I didit and you lied and you told my
brother.
So I went to my brother and Ihe said he jumped me and said
they said they didn't say that.
I said, well, they're liars andI'm not going to play for a

(15:04):
liar.
So sorry you feel that way butyou need to protect yourself.
Because he couldn't leave.
He was hurt and I said SteveSloan was a tremendous role
model for me and mentor.
He was the offensive coordinatorat Florida State.
So I left and went to FloridaState.
I worked construction for aboutthree or four months and found
out I didn't want to do that forsure.

(15:25):
And then I went to FloridaState and hurt my knee there and
ended up starting my coachingcareer there.
So it was a great change for me.
But I do think now with thetransfer portal and the
combination of NIL and thetransfer portal, there's been a
collision of those two andthere's a lot of tampering going

(15:46):
on.
So I think it's good that JoeBurrow can transfer and be a
third team quarterback at OhioState or win a national
championship in the Heisman atLSU.
It was good I could transfer.
If I no longer trusted thosecoaches, then I needed to have
another option.
So there are good things.
I don't think kids should betransferring four or five times.

(16:08):
It gets out of hand and thenyou put yourself to a position
where if you transfer once, itgoes down to about 63% chance to
graduate.
You transfer four times, fivetimes, you're not going to
graduate because those hoursaren't going to keep
transferring.
Then that NIL money you got upfront isn't going to be any good

(16:31):
when you can't get a job whenyou get out.
And that's where I'm worriedabout the mental health.
We're going to have a lot ofplayers that had $100,000, had
$150,000, thought they had theworld and then that money's gone
when they finish school andthey're not going to have a
degree and they're going to belost.
And that's where we really needto start looking at mental

(16:52):
health.
So I wish you could keep guysat a place a couple of years,
because freshmen will leave fastand they may not even know yet
who the coaches are or acoaching change.
But I just don't like seeingpeople transfer four or five
times.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
I just don't think that's healthy you know we'll
get into that more, because Ilove listening to Coach, because
there's a lot more that he canunbundle.
Stevie, we, you know we stillgot a few years before we retire
and I know that you spend a lotof time a lot more time than I
have with Coach Brown.
Is there anything that you wantto ask him about what the

(17:31):
retired life looks like rightnow?
I know it's early, I know it'searly.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah Well, coach moves around a lot, so I don't
really know if he's reallyretired.
He's probably not coachingright now, but he ain't retired,
I promise you that so what isnext for you?

Speaker 5 (17:46):
coach what are?

Speaker 3 (17:47):
you, what are you uh back in austin doing and what's
next for you?

Speaker 5 (17:51):
and uh, miss sally well, I call it rewiring, not
retiring.
It sounds sounds old, so I'mnot gonna do that.
Uh, what we're?
We're so excited, stevie, aboutthe next chapter for Sally and
I, where I'm 73, I'll be 74 inAugust.
I remember when I came backhere, coach Rowe was 72 and I

(18:12):
thought he was old.
So I gotta I gotta make surethat I stay in shape and keep my
energy and and we've got twograndkids here and two in
Charlottesville, virginia, andtwo in LA, so we're going to
spend a lot of time with them.
I'm working on doing a podcast,just looking at who with and
what we're going to do on anational scene.

(18:34):
I did TV before.
I'm going to look at that.
But, like Sean we werediscussing earlier, I want to
make sure that I can be me inthe modern scene and not be
asked to do things that are notin my personality and still be
good for them.
I've got that.
So I really think that's whatI'm going to do, and I'm going

(18:57):
to try to play golf every daythat my body will let me, and
it's bad golf, but that's okay.
I can do it on days where thefish are biting.
I don't like to fish, I like tocatch, so I'll be out there
trying to catch fish.
But Sally and I we've workedreally hard and we're still

(19:18):
going to work to help people.
We've got our charity MJ&M intown that's helped so many young
people to be empowered.
So we've got a lot of things wewant to do, but we're sure
looking forward to it.
And since coaching is sodifferent now than what I signed
up for many years ago, I thinkit was best in time for me to go

(19:42):
do something else, because it'sjust different.
It's just different.
It's not bad.
I'm glad the players aregetting paid.
I got $15 a month and I wasexcited about it when I got it.
But right now we've got to havesome guidelines and we've got

(20:02):
less guidelines than the NFL andwe're definitely a minor league
football sport right now.
So it's not healthy for theguys either, but I'm just
excited about trying to helppeople, stevie and move forward.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, I was going to ask you a question about
recruiting.
I know that you've had somereally really good classes at
the University of Texas thatcame through.
But what you said earlier aboutyour coaches at Vandy, I think
that shaped you as how yourecruit kids right.

(20:38):
As a lot of people might knowor may not know, I was really
highly recruited coming out ofShreveport, out of Evangel in
Shreveport, and I could havegone to any school I wanted to.
You know, I went to Georgiawith Jim Donnan was the head
coach and I went to Miami whenButch Davis was the head coach

(20:59):
and they all told me, theylooked at me when I got on
campus, my official visit, andthey said oh man, you'll start
right away.
You'll start right away.
Rc told me that.
At A&M Houston, nut told methat.
At Arkansas, jerry DiNardo toldme that at LSU, every single
coach that I talked to said thatto me.

(21:20):
I came to Austin, came with Mrpittman.
I met with coach brown and hesaid if you work hard, you have
a position here.
And and I'm looking around likewho do?
He not know who I am, but butI'm joking.
But that was the first timethat someone I felt was really

(21:44):
genuine with me.
You can't go and tell asnotty-nosed teenager from high
school that they're going tostart on their team.
I knew that what Coach Brownsaid you're going to get with
Mad Dog and if you work hard youcan earn your position here.
That's all I needed to hear wasearning my position, because I
didn't want anything given to me.
You earn it right and so that'swhy I came to the University of

(22:08):
Texas, because my coach washonest to me and honest with me
and it feels like you wanted tobe honest with these kids
because the people at Vandy liedto you.
It's all like that full circlemoment for me.
But tell me, how did you becomeso talented in recruiting kids?

Speaker 5 (22:29):
I think because of the experiences I had as a
player.
Yeah, I didn't want to transfer, so I wanted to make sure that
the guys that came to Texas whenwe were here fit.
And a lot of times theassistant coaches might not
understand that, but I knew whofit here.
Who can handle a classroomTexas is hard so who can handle

(22:52):
that pressure, pass, get adegree and still handle the
pressure of playing on the field.
Who can handle competing for ajob Because we had a lot of good
players.
You know we were three deep andgood players.
So I think the biggest thing Ilearned, stevie, is I never
wanted to talk somebody intocoming.
I wanted to tell them exactlywhat it was going to be like and

(23:16):
then if they didn't like it,they were going to leave anyway.
So I wanted them to convince me.
So I would sit and Sean and asksomebody like Stevie, why would
you come?
Why wouldn't you go to LSU?
You're from Shreveport, so Iwould want to know why he wanted
to come.
Instead of me trying toconvince him, I would ask a mom

(23:37):
mom, you're from North Carolina,we're in Texas.
That's a long way away.
Are you concerned aboutdistance?
And if she said yes I'd, I'dsay, well, he's not coming, but
I'd always say we can't getcloser, we're not moving.
So, guys, we're wasting ourtime and and I think the the
most important thing was justbeing direct and honest.

(23:58):
And a lot of times, assistantcoaches, too, have trouble
asking the hard questionsbecause they don't want to hear
the answers.
Yeah.
I wanted Stevie to tell me hewasn't coming.
If he wasn't coming because Ihad to go get somebody else.
So I wanted to feel like I washim and I was in his brain.

(24:20):
And if I was him, why would Icome to Texas?
And if I could convince myselfhe should come here, it's a
whole lot easier for me to totalk to him about coming here
than if I'm sitting here saying,if I, stevie, I wouldn't come
here.
And here are the reasons why Iwouldn't come here.
And I'd tell the coaches thatthey'd say Stevie's gonna come.
I'd say no, he's not.
Here's the reason he's not.

(24:41):
And I wouldn't either if I wassmart.
He's going to see this.
Let's sit here and start tryingto act like he's dumb, and
we're going to talk him intocoming.
And that's why we had very fewpeople leave too.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
That's great.
I think I need to take thatwhole philosophy and put it into
my job.
And you know, they're not goingto choose this house because I
wouldn't choose this house.
Then they're not going tochoose this house because I
wouldn't choose this house.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yeah, that's good.
Tell them why and then they'llfind one for you.
Sally always said Sally sold alot of houses and she's always
said I want somebody to buy thehouse that loves it.
I want somebody that's going toenjoy living here.
I don't want somebody coming inand me having to convince them
to buy my house.
That's not my job.
My job is to show them what Ithink they're going to like, but

(25:28):
my job is not to convince themto like something that's not
best for them.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
Yeah, and that's being very realistic For those
of you who obviously know whoMatt Brown is.
But think about his fourdecades of experiences, or more
than that.
He was an offensive coordinatorfor Barry Switzer in 84 at
Oklahoma, several places, and hesaw a lot of programs which he

(25:54):
had to learn, what he learnedfrom as a player to how to
recruit.
And when he got to Texas, Imean he did a phenomenal job.
His first time at NorthCarolina they caught up to
Florida State came to Texas.
It was in a very weird place andI'll never forget Coach Brown
saying this.
You know, because Texas is veryunique, because you have so

(26:14):
many voices and he said the BBswere scattered, you had to put
them all back in the box, whichis true and it's a cycle.
So when you arrive in late Ithink oh, no, no is oh or no 97,
I want to say a lot of peopleforget this.

(26:35):
Obviously, keeping Ricky washuge, but those group of young
men from Texas City I thoughtthey would you guys agree that
those were they all playedsignificant roles in getting
that momentum going for yourprogram.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
Yes, ricky was definitely the biggest recruit
because he sold season tickets,he got people excited, he gave
us something to build aroundbecause we were really bad on
defense and we've been prettygood on offense, but we couldn't
stop anybody.
So the Heisman became arallying cry for the whole team

(27:12):
and that team has a Heisman ontheir rings, everyone up because
we got permission to put it onthere, because we started saying
this isn't an individual award,this is a team award and if we
don't win he's not going to getit.
So that was really important.
And then we, you know, we hadnothing really.
We were coming off a four andseven season and the Texas city

(27:35):
guys, everybody thought they'dgo to a&m and that's where they
were supposed to go.
And then when they came, uh,and then all of them played um
it.
It sent a message, I think, tothe high school coaches in texas
that you, you better go lookbecause they're they're for real
.
And and then we, we tried torecruit the state of Texas and

(27:57):
then significant players thatcould get here easily, like
Stevie and Phillip and Cole andChase, coming out of Shreveport
and especially in really goodacademic schools.
Again, you've got to pick theright people for your school and
Texas was a hard academicschool Nobody talked about it
but it was and we could getpeople in on NCAA regulations,

(28:20):
but it didn't do us any good ifthey couldn't stay in.
So we had to figure out who wassmart enough to come here and
handle it, and that was on us todo that.
And then you try to just look,we got some guys out of Denver
because they had ties to us andthe, both gays, and you, you

(28:41):
Casey, stuttered because wewould go to Denver to get
somebody like that, the sinlines, and then the sin lines
out of Scottsdale.
So you, you just looking atdirect flights with people who
had ties to the university andthen the state of Texas, and
that's what we tried to do issupplement it.

(29:04):
And I would tell guys likeStevie, we don't go out of state
unless you're really good,because we don't have to.
Yep.
So if we're coming to Shreveport, we cross that state border.
Man, You're good and that'strue.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
And Baton Rouge, yeah , yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:23):
If we can find you in our state, why would we come
out of state to get you?
So you got to be better thanthe guys in our state or we
wouldn't go.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
And that's just facts , yeah, I learned that when I
got here At the university oftexas.
Uh, you know you're competingwith a and m for the talent in
the state, but to be successfulin at the university of texas,
you really got to build a wallaround texas and keep these guys
here and um, and I think thatyou guys did a really good job.
Your whole staff did that allthroughout all the years.

(29:55):
Um, we also talked about um.
Uh, on another show that I do.
Uh, we talked about how youretained um coaches here at the
university of texas.
Like you, a lot of your coachesdid not leave here, you know.
So that's that's a testament toyou as well, to to get really

(30:16):
good coaches here and keepreally good coaches here.

Speaker 5 (30:18):
Thank you, Stevie.
It sounds a little bit hokey,but we wanted the whole thing to
be a family atmosphere.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
And it was.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
Everybody grew up in their family.
They liked their family.
So we wanted the wives around.
We wanted the coaches to havesome time to go see their kids.
If one of the coaches had a sonplaying like if Coach Akina had
a son playing we'd let him gogo watch your son, because
coaches don't get to do thatenough.
So it was really reallyimportant to us that everybody

(30:52):
felt like that we did care,because we did, and we wanted
everybody to have a wonderfullife and still be able to win
football games, Because if youdon't win you don't get to stay
and then you can't do any ofthis.
That's just a fact in collegesports.
But we also felt like that toomany people didn't enjoy it.

(31:14):
We had fun.
I like Stevie Lee.
He's fun for me.
When I see him I smile, andSally feels the same way, and
the same with Summer and herchildren, and that's the way we
are with all of our players.
We can't wait to have agathering and get everybody
together again as soon as we getsettled here, and Ricky Brown's

(31:36):
working on that as we speak.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
I think that's a story in itself the camaraderie
and family atmosphere at theUniversity of Texas and back
then it was across all sports.
Some of my best friends areswimmers in the soccer team and
softball and basketball that Istill talk to today.
Texas athletics was a family asa whole, so I really wish that

(32:07):
we can get back to that.
It's going to be harder withthese portals open up like they
are, but if you are a Longhornat the University of Texas, you
are family for life, no matterwho you are.
When you have your T-ring Idon't have it on right now, but
it's in there.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
It is Stevie and I helped recruiting and all the
other sports.
That was really important to us.
They wanted to bring them tothe football games, wanted to
put them on the sidelines, andthe Jordan Spieths and Scotty
Schefflers and there are so manyguys that Coach Fields would
bring in and of course we lovedAugie in baseball and Rick
Barnes was a dear friend and I'mstill very good friends with

(32:43):
Jared Elliott and Eddie Reeseand Angie in soccer, and so
there's, you can make that workfor everybody and we did have it
and it was fun to know thenames of the other players and
go see the other sports play andand enjoy them if you can't
enjoy watching kevin durant play.

(33:04):
There's something wrong with itright.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Every time we see, uh , jody conrad, uh, we light up,
and a lot of times she's withchris polonsky and we, we all
just light up and we catch uplike we never left off, you know
.
So it is a family.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
Coach, I was going to tell you, you know, we talked
about the Shreveport pipeline.
There were quite a few players,not only great players but good
people, and I heard yourecently and through others you
know, our friend, jimmy Saxton,former Texas quarterback legacy
at Texas.
We were talking about you andSteve and I.

(33:42):
We had the same conversationand this is going to hit it home
for you, stevie, because youand I have talked about Cole
Pittman a lot and had his dad on.
But, coach, you said somethingthat, of all the success you've
had, the lives you have helpedchange in a positive way.
I hate to say this but it sucks, because real life is hard and

(34:05):
losing children should never,never, never happen to a parent
or to a coach or to a mentor.
But you say the two definingmoments in your coaching career
unfortunately Cole Pittman, andthen, at North Carolina, ty Lee.
When you say defining moments,how are people supposed to
interpret that?

Speaker 5 (34:27):
Well, I pray every night for all the players that
have played for Sally and I andhope that they're safe.
We pray that they're safe andwe pray that our family's safe.
And I also throw a little bitmore on God and say and help
them be happy too, if you can,if we.

(34:47):
Just if it's an overload whereI got it, they can be happy, but
I need them healthy.
And you learn so much fromlosing coal and it hurts so bad,
it never goes away.
I think about it all the time.
I talk to Mark still all thetime.
And Ty Lee we had for two and ahalf years.
He had stayed for cancer and wethought he was getting better

(35:09):
and then he would pick it up.
He'd be at every meeting andhe's out there at practice and
he's out there right afterchemotherapy.
He's throwing up and I'd say,why don't you go back to your
apartment?
He'd say no, I need to be here,coach, I need to be with these
players, my teammates.
I said I got it and then he'dsay how are you?
Are you okay?
And I thought, come on, man, Iam good.

(35:31):
But when you think about coal welost over a morning, think
about coal, we lost over amorning.
I mean I go to the office, geta call and they tell me there's
a body.
They don't have identification.
They've got a cotton bowl ringthat's got coal pitman's name on
it.
Could I send a picture?
And we had to identify thepicture to know that it was him.

(35:54):
And then they wanted me to callMark and Judy and they wanted
me to tell them that they hadlost their son.
And they said and you can't sayhe died, you've got to say they
lost him and make sure that theminister's there make sure the
high school coach is there,because that's a very difficult
thing to handle.
So I picked up the phone thatmorning and I called before

(36:15):
anybody knew it and I said toMark Mark, we've lost Cole.
He said wait, what do you mean?
Did he get lost?
I said no, but he's not here.
He said what do you mean?
He's not here.
So I had to say Mark, he had acrash and he's gone.
And then it was very difficultThen Mark, then I had to go meet
with a team and trying to know.

(36:38):
Stevie and Phillip were soclose to Cole and guys like
Chance Mock, they were all soclose that you have counselors
there.
And what do you do?
How do you tell a team You'resupposed to start spring
practice the next day, he's 21.
He's going to get to play andnow he's gone.

(37:00):
And I I mean so it was ashocker, unlike ty lee, who we
watched die over two and a halfyears.
And then, with ty lee, wewatched him.
We watched him and all of asudden then he, he went to a
cane and then he went to awheelchair and he went to
hospice during the season and itwas over a three or four week

(37:22):
period.
So we had to tell the playerslisten, you need to tell Tylee
goodbye.
He's got ten days to two weeks,so you need to go see him and
you gotta tell him.
And then we're playing GeorgiaTech and it's Friday night.
Before the game at one o'clock,I get a call that says Tylee may

(37:46):
not make it.
So then what do you do?
Do you cancel the game?
Do you tell the team?
And can they play with mentalhealth, knowing that they lost a
teammate?
What if he dies at 11 o'clockin the games at noon?
What happens?
So I really think between Godand his mom and Tylee.

(38:07):
He stayed alive until the secondquarter and we lost him during
the second quarter.
Well, we had to keep all of ourplayers off of social media,
and mom kept it off social media.
But after the game I'm walkingup and wife Sally says come here
, so we lose to Georgia Tech onthe last play of the game on a
68 yard run.
And I'm walking off the fieldand Sally says come here, listen

(38:29):
, we lost Talib and mom wantsyou to tell the team, and then
she wants you to tell the media,and then she wants you to come
see the family.
So you walk in and how do youtell the team hey, the game was
awful, sorry, man, it's been atough run here.
We lost on the last play of thegame.
And oh, by the way, you lost ateammate.
He's gone.

(38:49):
And then you go tell the mediathe same thing, Then go visit
with the family.
So what I've learned through allthis and I know we talk about
gratitude, so what I've learnedis that we don't know how long
we've got.
I mean, cole was a phone calland I didn't get to tell him

(39:10):
goodbye.
And I've learned you bettertell people everything you want
to tell them, because you don'tknow if you're ever going to see
them again, yep, so that'sreally important.
So you don't know how longyou've got, but you do know that
you, you are responsible forhandling whatever happens to you
, uh, and your family, becauseyou can't control it either.

(39:30):
So we can't gripe about it.
We got to fix it.
You got to take negatives andturn them into positives, and
that's what husbands and fathersdo, and that's really, really
important.
And the other thing is is itbetter to lose somebody
overnight or over two and a halfyears?
Losing somebody is losingsomebody.

(39:51):
You don't go back.
We had to watch him be sick,but we got to tell him goodbye,
cole.
We didn't get to tell himgoodbye.
Now what's happened is Mark isusing Raising Cole the book to
help people that are in similarsituations.
He's using the movie that'scoming up soon to help people,

(40:14):
and Mark's a giver soon to helppeople.
And Mark's a giver and he wantsto have a purpose in Cole's
life.
And he said he prayed over thatcasket and said I'm going to
make sure that your legacy helpsother people.
And Mark has done that betterthan anybody.
Tali's mom's the same.
He got the Orange Bowl Awardthis year for being such a

(40:38):
special person and handling hissickness so well.
So I think the biggest thing isthat winning ballgames is one
thing, but we all have toremember we're dealing with
human beings here.
Yeah.
And we're dealing withsomebody's children and I told
our players, I told our coachesand I've always told them this

(40:59):
you treat your player like youwould want your son to be
treated and if they're cussinghim or grabbing him, I'd say
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,you want me to do that to your
son.
And they'd stop real quickBecause you can coach somebody
hard and you can encouragepeople, you can get people to do
things and follow you and youcan lead without cussing them or

(41:21):
grabbing them, and I don't wantanybody cussing, grabbing me.
If they do, it's going to be aproblem it's going to be a
problem.
I'm not going to put up with it.
So why in the world would Iwant somebody to cuss or grab my
son if I wouldn't want tohappen to me?

Speaker 3 (41:35):
absolutely.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Absolutely Walk and talk.
Yeah, I love it.
That's great points.
This movie it's in its infantstages.
Both Coach and Stevie are partof the team of gathering info
interviews.
I know you guys have had a tonof meetings as far as and Jimmy

(41:58):
Saxon as well.
There's so many people involvedBefore I, for Stevie, both you
and Coach talk about what youguys know about the movie so far
.
Jim Saxton wanted me to passalong his email address to those
of you watching or listening tothis episode, because you, if

(42:19):
you have an interest and a loveand passion in Texas Longhorn
athletics, football or thisstory, because Coach said it
best, mark Pittman wrote thisbook, for it's about a father's
love for his children,specifically Cole.
He's still mourning it to thisday and I think parents always

(42:41):
do when this happens, as theyshould.
But here's Jimmy Saxton's emailsjsax10 at gmailcom.
If you would like to learn howyou can become an investor into
this movie and support it, andthere's typical investor

(43:02):
opportunities to receive areturn on that and I'll start
with you, stevie.
Then, coach, you talk aboutwhat you guys know or can talk
about as far as the productionof this movie.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Well, a couple of weeks ago it was about a month
ago, coach that uh, we all gotin the room, together with the
uh producers and and uh and someother players.
That was close with uh, withwith cole.
One of the things that we cameout of the movie, or out of that
meeting with, one of the thingsI came out of the meeting was
is we wanted to be authentic.

(43:36):
Chase Cole, cole's brother,chase, was there in the room and
I got him to the side and Itold him.
I said you know, chase, I don'tdo anything with Cole's name on
it if it's not sanctioned byyou guys.
And I said if you smell or seeor feel anything funny, you tell

(43:56):
me and I'll speak up for you.
Chase is like my little brother, you know, so I want to protect
him in all this as well.
So but in that whole meeting,man and everyone was doing
stories and telling stories andtalking, talking some some fun
things that we've done incollege and in high school, when

(44:20):
Cole and I were in high schooland Chase, we were just talking
and having a good time.
If a tenth of those storiescome out through this movie,
it's going to be a great movie.
It's really going to be a greatmovie.
I'm really excited about it.
I can't wait to get with themto give some more stories and

(44:40):
things like that.
But I've seen some of the workthat these producers have and
writers have already done andit's pretty cool.
It's pretty neat.
So I'm happy to have those guyson board for this movie.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
Coach, it's less about football, correct?
The angle of this movie, isthat correct?

Speaker 5 (45:07):
Yes, it's more about a father and his son and the
love for his son and, really andtruly, the college athlete, the
prime of his life.
Everything's perfect and oneday it's taken away, and how do
you handle it?
And, and Mark's been asuperstar for helping others and
there's so many people thathave sad stories Right, and, and

(45:31):
I think this is to to celebratethe life of those who are gone,
and that's why I can't, I can'twait to see it.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
Yeah, I can't either.
I'm looking forward to it and Ithink it's a unique opportunity
that Jimmy said that people canget on board.
I mean, I know this sounds likea lot, but as far as this
investment 10 grand to get inand invest, to be a part in your
support, because he called itJimmy said he woke up one day
and went to church on a Sundayand he said he felt like God was
speaking to him.
He says I've got to pour myselfinto this project and I think

(46:11):
he's.
What is he the co-producer,jimmy?

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Sattler.
I don't know his job title, buthe helped put everything
together so he can beco-producer.
I don't know his job title, buthe helped put everything
together so he can beco-producer for me.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
He went from playing a quarterback to selling
insurance to producing movies,but everyone involved has a
great story and very talentedand is going to do it great.
Stevie Coach mentioned you andyour recruitment, but I think
something what really happenedto you happens to a lot of
student athletes and injuriescan really affect an individual

(46:45):
up here.
How did you and coach and thestaff cause you had a foot
injury while you were a longhorn and was it lingering?
And how did you?
How did you overcome that teamwith you and coach trying to get
you back on the field?

Speaker 5 (47:00):
Stevie.
I thought this would beimportant because in my 36 years
, people don't understand.
When somebody's hurt, they say,oh, he stays hurt all the time.
No, no, no.
It's really hard.
You lose part of your identity,you lose who you are.
Your coach doesn't have enoughtime to spend with you because
he's spending with other guysand you you feel like they don't

(47:20):
care.
So I I think it.
It's great for young athletesto hear how you would handle it
if you were them.
And and because you you did it,you made it work and you came
back.
A lot of people don't.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
They just give up and and it doesn't end well yeah, I
uh, I broke my fifth metaltorso on my left foot.
Um, you know, I was justworking out and just felt
something, just this off, andthey told me it was a stress
fracture.
Because I was working out,working hard, yeah, I wanted to
see the field, you know, and so,um, I break that foot, um, get

(47:54):
into a boot for like half a year.
And that first practice springpractice we used to do a field
goal block in the beginning ofpractice and that first day back
in pads after my first injury,that first practice, I push off
to get pushed so Tyrone can goand jump and try to block the

(48:19):
field goal.
And I could feel it.
My foot then popped.
I could feel it.
I felt it After a long rehab.
After a long rehab, re-injuredit.
The very first play, pushingoff, yeah, and so I went back
into surgery.
They unscrewed a screw and puta bigger screw in there.
And that screw is still in myfoot.
It's been perfect ever since.

(48:39):
I only feel it when the weatherchanges.

Speaker 4 (48:43):
So I'm all good now.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yeah, so I'm all good now.
But when we talk about mentalhealth, it started to weigh on
me and, coach, I'm sorry, I'mgoing to give you your flowers
right now again, because one dayI was really down on myself.
I was in the training room, Istayed in the training room
trying to get this thing right,and I go upstairs and I was like

(49:06):
man, I don't want Coach to giveup on me.
And I was walking up the stairswith my crutches and you were
leaving out of your office,coach.
I doubt you even remember this.
You were leaving out of youroffice, coach.
I doubt you even remember this.
You were leaving out of youroffice and I was like, oh, I'm
sorry, coach, I was going tocome to your office, but I'll
come to talk to you tomorrow.
You said you dropped everything.

(49:28):
You said no, no, no, come onback, let's go.
You were about to go home,coach.
You were about to, and I knowSally was waiting on you, so you
were about to go home and yousaid no, no, no, no.
Whenever you need to talk to me, come on, come on back.
And you got me back to youroffice and I said, coach, I'm
not going to be one of thoseplayers that's always hurt.

(49:48):
I'm really trying to get back.
And you said you cut me off andsaid Stevie, don't worry about
that, you just get right.
You just keep doing what you'redoing.
Get in the training room, getwith Tom, get with Alan and just
get yourself back right.
And we know that you're workingand we know that you're going
to be back and that right theremeant the world to me, that the

(50:12):
guy that got me here and I'm,almost a year and a half being
hurt, still believing in me.
So that's again.
I'm giving you your flowersright now.
I don't know if you rememberthat story or remember that, or
I don't expect you to rememberthat, but it played a big part

(50:32):
in my getting back onto thefield to play again, because I
was really down.
I was like I came here to go toschool and play football.

Speaker 5 (50:41):
I remember it like it was yesterday because I was
hurt.
I had knee operations.
I went through that mentalhealth stuff that I knew you
were going through.
The other thing Sally wantedyou back on the field.
She wasn't worried about whattime I got home.
If I told her I was talking toStevie she'd say, good, is he
doing better?

Speaker 2 (50:59):
When you win you win.

Speaker 5 (51:01):
That girl wants to win.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
I'm sure she does Well.
Thank you for that, coach forsure.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
You need to thank Sally too, yeah absolutely no
question.
Coach, you mentioned it earlier.
We all all three of us andeveryone watching this episode
college sports, in particularcollege football, I want to say,
over the last three to fiveyears, has evolved at a pace

(51:29):
that I can't keep up with.
I'm all for NIL and the portalfor what it was intended to be
originally, and I'm all forstudent athletes to be
compensated and have theopportunity to find their home.
But now you have those threewhat they are, and I'm not

(51:50):
criticizing kids making money.
Now you add, now going up to105 scholarships.
What's your thoughts on that?
Has all of that I think all ofit played a role in your
decision, because Nick Saban hasgone on the record about it and
you both are from that samegeneration.
It's not to me, it's notgenerational, it's just what all

(52:15):
three of us can relate to.
I mean, how do you sum this upwith all these changes, and is
it a, is it a formula forcollege football to succeed at
this pace?

Speaker 5 (52:25):
yeah, right now, sean , it's not a sustainable formula
in my opinion.
I don't like the fact that wewill no longer have walk-ons.
Some of the guys that walked onare best friends of mine.
They're givers to theuniversity.
They had wonderful lives andmaybe they weren't as good as
the Stevies in the world, but,man, they'd fight their guts out

(52:46):
and get on a special team FromMichael Ungard.
You just go, you check namesoff and we're losing that now,
and I hate that.
We had 120 people on our team.
Fifteen of them are going to becut and I thought at least they
should be grandfathered in andthat's all Title IX.
And it's not 105 scholarshipsanymore, sean, it's

(53:08):
opportunities.
So you can still have 85 onscholarship, but you can't have
more than 105 on your team, soyou may not have enough money to
have 105 on scholarship.
So they call them opportunities.
And that's where it gets inwith Title IX, because there's
always been more footballplayers than there are women's

(53:28):
softball players, so therewasn't a comparable sport.
So Title IX was always an issuefor football.
That's why they limited us to120 players.
And I think what's happened iswe made decisions and we didn't
think about the consequences.
Correct, you've always got tolook at the consequences,
because after the toothpaste isout of the tube, it's hard to

(53:51):
get it back in.
That's what we've done.
There'll never be a time wherethey'll take money away from
kids again.
But we're going to have to goto salary cap.
We're probably going to have togo to collective bargaining.
We're going to have to have anNFL model for the first time.
The NFL model is better thanthe college model.
It's got to change and it's gotto change fast.

(54:12):
We're also killing our boosters.
They've got booster fatigue,because how many times can you
call them and ask them for money?
You got 28 sports and all 28are asking for money.
My friends would say man, I gotcaller ID, I'm cutting you off.
I want season tickets.

(54:33):
I want you to help me build abuilding.
I want you to pay this kid.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
Pay the collectives.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
Now we said for years you can't have an agent.
Steve would be in jail if hegot an agent when he was in
school.
Now everybody got an agent.
We said for years that we can'tpay you.
Now I'm be in jail if he got anagent when he was in school and
now everybody got an agent.
Yep, we said for years that wecan't pay you and now I'm
calling friends that are alumsand saying you need to pay
stevie.
Uh, so it's just.
Uh.
We, we, just we.
We went too far too fast andnow we gotta get back.

(55:01):
The games are wonderful.
I love the playoff games, buteven with the playoff games, if
you're going to play 16 gameslike an NFL player with an
18-year-old mind, we're going tohave to start changing the
schedules.
We're going to have to startchanging the portal.
We're going to have to startchanging spring practice.
We're not caught up for what'sbest for the student athlete,

(55:26):
even with the cash.
Best for the student athlete.
Even with the cash, everybody'sgoing to know.
If Stevie's making a million,five the other three defensive
linemen are making 200.
It's going to be hard forStevie.
It's just different.
So the kids are wonderful.
They still want to play.
They still want to go to school.

(55:46):
Somebody got on me the other day.
I said these kids didn't askfor this money.
We gave it to them.
Maybe a few did, but the largemajority didn't come in and say
we're not going to play unlessyou pay us.
And what we did.
We didn't have a pay scale, sowe're going to have a salary cap
at some point.
We'll have collectingbargaining and we'll have a plan
.
We'll have collectingbargaining and we'll have a plan

(56:09):
.
And the other thing it's ahorrible time to be an athletics
director because they've got tocome up with $21 million more
next year, especially in thePower 4 group.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
That's the revenue sharing.
Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (56:17):
They can pay revenue sharing, and that's on top of
everything else they're doingNow.
Texas can handle it, but howmany places across the country
can do that and still supportthe other student athletes and
still survive?
It's going to be very difficult.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
The NCAA had a big push of parity.
They wanted everybody to becompetitive.
Now, only the big schools aregoing to be competitive.
Only the big schools with thebig donors and the big money are
going to be competitive, in myopinion.

Speaker 5 (56:48):
The last six that were playing had money.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Exactly, that's true.
It's going to be their for andtheir, on so on.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 5 (56:57):
When it gets down to the end.
Stevie used to say you're goingto take care of me, you're
going to be honest with me.
Now they're saying all that,and then at the end they said
there's one more question, coach, how much are you going to pay
me?
I hate to ask, but how much are?

Speaker 3 (57:12):
you going to pay me?
I hate to ask Really.
They're smiling on the insidebecause they're looking for that
number.

Speaker 5 (57:18):
I said why didn't you ask when you got here two days
ago?
We could have gotten rid of therest of that conversation.
We just needed to get the mostimportant thing out there first.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
Yep, real quick.
Coach, you're forever tied toAustin.
You're back in Austin.
I mean, you've got so manyloyalties and roots across the
country.
But when people think of MackBrown and people in North
Carolina may disagree with me,but Mack's a Texas Longhorn,
you're the guy who turned thisprogram around I mean it's hard

(57:51):
to believe that when you took itover there was a lot of
mediocrity but a long career atTexas.
One national championshipplayed for two others.
There could have been four, Imean.
But we're not in the business.
I learned this the hard way ofsaying what could have been, but
you were there.
When you look at what Sark hasdone in a short period of time

(58:13):
and I know he's had theconvenience of NIL and the
portal, but managing thatregardless of where you are, is
it tougher than what peoplethink?

Speaker 5 (58:24):
Yes, you look at some schools that had money that
didn't win.
So if you don't have money,you're not going to be a winner
on a consistent basis yeahbecause you're not going to get
good enough players.
The the best guys with the mostmoney are going to buy the best
players.
You've still got to be able toevaluate the right ones that fit
your place and you've still gotto be able to manage that

(58:47):
locker room.
And you've still got to be ableto manage that locker room and
you've still got to be able tocoach them and develop them.
Yeah, so just have.
If you don't have money, you'renot going to make it.
But if you do have money andyou don't do a good job, you're
still not going to make it,because everybody's got money.
It's in that group of 15 teamsthat have money.
So that's where Sark's done sucha great job.
He learned at Washington, helearned at USC, he worked for

(59:11):
Pete Carroll, he worked for NickSaban, he's learned in the NFL.
He has the perfect backgroundto handle this monster that
Texas can become.
And that's what you do when youwin enough, coach Earl said one
time he told me you're creatinga monster.
When you do, you've got to feedthat sucker.
It's hard to keep that monsterfed and that's what you do here.

(59:36):
But I'm really, reallyimpressed with Chris Del Conte,
the athletics director, becausehe's getting the money and the
atmosphere in every sport.
I was at the Kentuckybasketball game the other night.
That place was packed.
The fans were into it, it'srocking, it's fun and he's done

(59:57):
an amazing job of that.
The game day atmosphere forfootball from afar looks
unbelievable.
And they've got NIL money and ifyou don't have NIL money,
you're you're not going to makeit.
I talked to a major coach atanother school I won't say which
one it was and he told me hisathletic director brought him

(01:00:18):
the other major team coach intwo years ago and said listen,
right now you can buy players,and that's not going to happen
for long.
They're going to fix it.
Now you can buy players, andthat's not going to happen for
long.
They're going to fix it.
But right now, for the firsttime ever, it's legal to buy a
player.
So my job is to get you as muchmoney as I can so you can buy
the best players you can buy.
So when they get some senseinto these rules, we're going to

(01:00:39):
be ahead of the game and theones that are doing that are the
ones that will have the bestteams All right, that's a little
dramatic, but man, man, katestory.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
There have been some really good ones, legendary
stories told by guests in thepast, some I'll never forget and
I've retold at least.
Or, like the kids say, onsocial media, I reshared or
quote, tweeted or whateverthey're saying.
But is there any story that youhave that is just as amusing

(01:01:19):
today as it was when it happened?

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):
Yeah, probably when Terry Donahue, who's a dear
friend of ours that we lost, wasa head coach at UCLA for 20
years.
He was retiring and Sally and Iwere coaching in an all-star
game in San Francisco with himand Sally asked him and his
sweet bride, what are you doingin retirement and how's it

(01:01:46):
working?
And she said it's not workingwell at all.
He's downstairs, he's trying tofix the kitchen, he's changing
pictures, he's organizing myfurniture.
So what I did is I told him I'mgonna get you an I love me room
upstairs and you can put allyour little pictures and all
your little trophies in thatroom and you can move them
anywhere you want, anytime youwant, but don't you touch my

(01:02:09):
house and don't you touch mystuff.
Well, I got told the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
So I love me room.

Speaker 5 (01:02:17):
They called it because she said you love your
little pictures.
You go up there and sit and youcan sit with your pictures and
your trophies and you and your Ilove me room will be great and
that way you're not going to bemessing with my house.
You haven't been around for 20years.
I haven't seen you.
And now you come in and want tochange every light bulb.
You want to move the dishes,you want no my house it's your

(01:02:42):
house.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
I think my wife gave me my office.
This office that I'm sitting in, I the I Love Me room.
I think my wife gave me myoffice.
This office that I'm sitting in, that's your office, I Love Me
room.
I couldn't put my JackieRobinson jersey up in the house
anywhere, so I was like I'mgoing to put it in my office.
This is my.

Speaker 5 (01:02:57):
Jackie.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Robinson jersey.

Speaker 5 (01:02:58):
It's your space.
It's your space so you can putJackie's, put his jersey up
anywhere you want.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Absolutely, and this is my pride and joy it's Jackie
Robinson and signed by BarackObama.
Oh gosh yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty cool and I gotthe letter of authenticity and
everything.
I actually got that at a silentauction from golly.
I told you about it, sean.

(01:03:25):
What's his name?
Doug English.
Doug English's charity and hehad us come and sit at his table
and I bought that at theauction to give back to his
foundation.
So I'm really proud of thatjersey.
But I couldn't put it upanywhere else but only in my I
Love Me room and I got my.

(01:03:46):
I show this to my kids.
I made the Athletic Director'sHonor Roll one year in 2003.
One year.

Speaker 5 (01:03:57):
Anytime they're messing up at school, just come
up to my I Love Me room here,yep.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
Coach, let's take a quick break.
We're going to watch Stevie Leeact again for Hargrove Roofing.
And on the other side.
We're going to talk about twoimportant people who were in
your life as significant figuresDKR and Miss Edith and then
we're going to end on somepositivity, and here's some

(01:04:25):
entertainment for you as we paytribute to Hargrove Roofing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Here at Hargrove Roofing we try to think outside
the box, to kind of get thecreative juices flowing.
So I brought in my friendStevie Lee, former defensive
tackle for the Texas Longhorns.
He's going to help the teamstrategize, really motivate them
.
Light a fire.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
This guy's going to block down.
This guy's going to block down.
You put your butt into theguard and that way my Mike
linebacker gets free to do what.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Not only are they gonna learn a thing or two, but
they're gonna also leave with agreat attitude and a bunch of
smiles on their faces.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
I'm sorry.
What does this have to do withroofing exactly?

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Get out Right now.
I said get out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
For me, that's what it's all about.
It's just having fun making ouremployees have a great time.
Hargrove Roofing.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Know who's on your roof.
All right, we're back withCoach Brown, the Stevie Lee
Super Bowl 59.
Last week it was, I think, thehighest rated or most watched
Super Bowl, but a blowout forPhilly.
Coach, did you have any formerplayers in that game?

(01:05:55):
No, okay, what you saw.
How would you sum up what yousaw in that game?
Because I don't think anybody,anybody even in Vegas, thought
that was possible.
Yeah, sally always had a littlesaying when you think something
, can anybody, even in Vegas,thought that was possible.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
Yeah, sally always had a little saying when you
think something can happen, youbetter look out, because that's
when it does in sports.
And I felt like that.
All of us, everybody wastalking about how Kansas City
was going to win, just becausethey do, and I think they had
about 13 one-score games thatthey won this year.
So they didn't play great, theyjust finished and had

(01:06:28):
confidence.
And Philly had been beaten downa couple of times and they came
in with a chip on theirshoulder and they were not going
to be denied.
So it just shows you thatyou've got to have an edge,
you've got to create that edgeand you've got to play with
confidence.
And Philadelphia did all ofthat.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
Yep, that was Coach edge and you've got to play with
confidence and philadelphia didall of that.
Yep, that was coach.
I just got a message, uh, frommy former co-worker you know her
very well at caveview uh vterry gruca, north carolina, tar
hill.
Uh, you guys, she she's a bigfan of coach.
They.
They have uh sat down with eachother interviewed, and our
friends.
She wanted me to ask yousomething.
Uh would love to hear how hehas maintained such a positive

(01:07:10):
attitude despite the way itended at carolina the second
time do you know, the uh, sallyand I were ready to get out, so
we, you, you pray to always dowhat's best.

Speaker 5 (01:07:25):
But I've learned and and part through losing cole
pitman and part through thetragedy at A&M, losing 12 young
people to a tradition where theywere just trying to support
their team and I still worryabout those 12 families every
Thanksgiving that they've losttheir children and then losing
Tylee last year.
I get up every morning and Imake sure that I look at what

(01:07:50):
I'm grateful for and I make sureI say what I'm grateful for,
and instead of getting up in themorning and griping and being
mad at this person or being madat that person, I'm so grateful
for so many things and I'm solucky and I have to remind
myself every morning that I'mthe luckiest person in the world

(01:08:11):
and that I am grateful for this.
And then I call some people andtell them I'm grateful for
Stevie and Summer in my life,sally and I talk about them a
lot, but how many people havethat many?
We would call them adoptedchildren, because we're not
their parents but we're anextension of their families and

(01:08:33):
so we're just so lucky andthat's why I think every morning
when people get up, we've gotto say we're grateful and we're
grateful.
I'm grateful for having CoachRoll and Edith in my life.
I catch myself all the timesaying Coach Roll said, miss
Edith said, and they've beengone quite a while now, so

(01:08:54):
they're wonderful.
We started MJ&M because of BenWillie Darrell and they were
giving back and they did it withcountry music.
So that's the reason we startedthe charity we've got today.
So every time we take a pennyand send it back to some
children that need it, I justput a smile on my face and thank
Coach Royal, miss Edith andWillie Nelson and Ben Crenshaw

(01:09:16):
for being the pioneers andleaders to show us the way.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
This event in April.
It gets better every year andI'm not just being the marketing
guy that I am now, but it'slegitimately improves every year
.
I mean, are you blown away?
Because I know Jen who puts ittogether.
She's phenomenal at theseevents.
And I don't know how she doesit every year.

Speaker 5 (01:09:43):
I don't either, and this is our 14th year, and last
year we made so much money andpeople are so giving, and Eric
Church is our headliner thisyear and everything sells out a
year in advance.
I mean, it's just absolutelyamazing.
We didn't know what we weredoing.
You get me and Jack Ingram andMatthew McConaughey in a room
and we were clueless.
And here we are and because ofthe giving people in this state

(01:10:08):
and especially the city ofAustin, they've made this thing
real and now it's one of thebest charities in the country.
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Hey, Ben, tell me something good.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
Coach Brown.
You mentioned it earlier.
What are we grateful for?
You know what we're going tosave Coach Brown for last
because he earlier.
What are we grateful for?
You know what we're going tosave Coach Brown for last,
because he's the most importanthere.
Stevie, you go first and I'lltell you what I'm grateful for.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Tell me something good, man.
I just really, I'm just goingto go back to this whole episode
.
This is almost like a dreamcome true to me.
This is really fun that I getto be on this podcast with Sean
every week and then offseasonevery other week, but to have my
old ball coach here and I getto interview him, I feel like

(01:10:59):
Ryan Clark interviewing hiscoach on his podcast, but it's
much smaller, though.
Much smaller than the pivot,but it was an honor.
I asked Coach Brown and he'slike absolutely Give me some
dates, you know, and I wasreally surprised that he did
this.
So something good for me, man,y'all.

(01:11:19):
I usually give the peoplesomething good, but this is
really good for me.
Today I'm going to be a littlebit selfish.
I really want to thank CoachBrown for granting his time to
us and letting me just talk andbring up some old memories and
old feelings, and this has beenreally really good.

(01:11:40):
So people just go back andwatch this a couple times, man,
because you're going to misssomething, and go back and watch
it, because Coach Brown droppedsome jewels here.
It's not just the stories, it'slife lessons that I've learned
throughout these years and beinga friend of Coach Brown and a
friend of Miss Sally.
I really appreciate you, coach.

(01:12:01):
Thank you, this was a lot offun for me.
I can't wait to see youthroughout the city.
You and, um, I can't wait tosee you throughout the city and
and continue, you too, you andmiss sally can continue to uh,
put your fingerprints on thiscity like y'all have done for
since 1997.
That's crazy.
So, thank you, coach, love you,I love you too, and tell miss

(01:12:25):
sally I love her, and thank youfor her cookies all over the
years.

Speaker 5 (01:12:29):
I will do that and hug your bride for us.
Oh my God.

Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
Stevie, you're not wrong.
Coach Brown, I can't thank youenough.
You've been one of the goodguys of college athletics.
There's a lot of influentialpeople in sports and who make
differences in young people,Cause I I mentor young people
with RBI Austin and have for awhile and I see what a
difference influential men andwomen can make, and I can't I

(01:13:00):
would venture to say thethousands for you of of what
kind of difference you've madein people's lives and change
perspectives.
Just a simple having faith insomebody.
But something good I havebecause of people like you and
other people.
I know I have had that everyopportunity in life to wake up

(01:13:22):
and pout, and why me?
But it's because of people likeyou and even Stevie, you didn't
even know it.
Because of that, of you, people, individuals who are positive.
You texted me at the right timeor called me, and that's what
we need to do to people, becausea text or a call can change the
trajectory of somebody'soutlook on their life and their

(01:13:44):
day, and I appreciate everyonewho's like that.
Coach Brown, tell us somethinggood.
My friend.

Speaker 5 (01:13:52):
Something good is every morning, stevie and Sean,
that we can get up, or everynight when we go to bed, that
everybody in our family and ourfriends are healthy.
Then we have no problems,because if one of them is sick,
and really sick, the rest of ourproblems are very unimportant.

(01:14:12):
So we can fix everything else.
But if we can't fix thatsickness, we better pray that
everybody's healthy.
And I have learned every nightI go to bed if everybody that I
know and love is healthy, I gotno problems.
The rest of my life is great.

(01:14:32):
And if you don't think that'strue, wait until somebody gets
sick, and then it's going to betoo late, you're going to drop
everything else.
So those problems are not realproblems, they're just
situations we need to get fixed,and Stevie and I have talked
about this for years.
You take negatives and you turnthem into positives.
They're not problems, they'relessons that you learn, and when

(01:14:53):
you fix them you try to makesure that they don't happen
again.
But if everybody's healthy inyour family, if all your friends
, your close friends, arehealthy, if you're healthy,
you've got no problems and weneed to be grateful for that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:05):
Amen, Amen.
We need more messages like thatdaily.
We need a devotional Stevie.
That's what we need to doCreate a podcast on five-minute
devotional Bring.

Speaker 5 (01:15:18):
Coach Brown on and we'll change lives that way.

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
We got to do it somehow.
Coach Brown, much love andappreciation to you and I'm so
excited that you guys, you andSally, are back here and good
luck on the upcoming event inApril.
And, man Stevie, thank you andyour family.
And to the city of Shreveport,Louisiana, the hometown of these
Stevie Lee and Hargrove roofing, into my college Alma mater

(01:15:44):
town, nacogdoches, texas, intomy beautiful hometown, austin,
texas, and for coach Brown.
And to my beautiful hometown,austin, texas, and for Coach
Brown and well, we'll say themost important one, his better
half, for Sally and Mack Brownand Stevie Lee and your
beautiful family.
And to the OG man Cave boys,that being Harbo, harge, big
Mike and the Coach Mo Stevie.

(01:16:06):
How do we do it?
How do we end every episode?

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
We out.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
You see the jumpy.
I'm fitted up, I'm in my car,in a Gideon.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
I said get out.