September 26, 2025 • 52 mins
Michael Center, former University of Texas tennis coach, shares his journey from being arrested as part of the nationwide college admissions scandal to writing his book "Breaking Serve" about his path to recovery.
• Center's coaching career began unexpectedly at 25 when offered the women's tennis coaching position at Kansas
• The University of Texas tennis program faced facility challenges when their courts were demolished to build a hospital
• Center was arrested by FBI agents at his home on March 12, 2019 as part of "Operation Varsity Blues"
• He explains how his involvement stemmed from attempting to raise funds for new tennis facilities
• Center maintains that university officials were aware of the student's admission through proper documentation
• His team won the national championship just months after his arrest, which he had to watch from afar
• Center served his prison sentence during COVID-19, spending 42 days confined indoors as the virus spread
• The book "Breaking Serve" focuses on resilience and recovery rather than blame
• Center now does public speaking and coaching while helping others overcome adversity
If you're interested in Michael's book or having him speak to your organization, visit breakingserve.com or purchase the book on Amazon.
Please like and follow each of Stories Inside the Man Cave Podcast social media links on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and Tik Tok.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
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(01:09):
Thank you for making time towatch episode 481.
It is Let's Talk About It.
And you know, throughout thesepast four or five years, we've
had some inspiring guests, someof which have been authors of
books.
Life, adversity in life hasmotivated people to not only
have a new perspective in life,but to write books.
(01:32):
For example, Katie RussellNewler back in 2020 talked about
her book.
It was basically about being acancer survivor, losing her
mother to cancer, and fulfillinga dream to visit all the Major
League Baseball Parks across thecountry, a dream that she and
her late mother said that theywere going to do.
(01:55):
And it is an amazing book.
Then Brandon Puffer, the formerMajor League Baseball player
whose dreams and baseball careercut short due to imprisonment.
Just one bad night, one baddecision.
And Brandon Puffer, one of thegreatest human beings I have
ever met.
Then we have the former Baylormoms who wrote a book,
(02:19):
co-authored a book to inspirecurrent college athletes,
parents on how to navigate thetough landscape it is of being a
parent of a college athlete.
Well, today we're gonna meet aman who is one of the more
respected coaches in collegetennis.
(02:43):
His life came to an screechinghalt, so to speak, an abrupt
change when he was the headcoach at the University of
Texas.
Michael Sinner and his book.
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Sometimes you have to wait to reach the pinnacle,
and I guess I uh I've I'vefinally gotten there.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Oh man.
I just you just made my wholeweek, my whole 2025.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
Don't tell chip, don't tell Chip Brown, but but
Brown.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
He's a man cave VIP alumni, Chip.
Sorry, brother.
Uh he's been elevated over here.
Uh hey, but you've got a greatstory.
You were uh you've recruited,coached, and and really have had
a really a good life, goodcareer to talk about.
And honestly, when you and Italked about this uh before we
(04:13):
planned out this episode, it wasan awful occurrence that you
know a lot of people couldn'timagine going through something
as you did.
But man, what you've done withthis, it's such a great story.
And before we get to that, besure to follow us on all of our
social media platforms.
(04:33):
You see them all there.
There's so many.
Uh, and you can the best partabout YouTube, you can subscribe
to it, but that word'smisleading, you can subscribe to
it for free.
And we got to give a shout outto all of our sponsors,
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So give uh honest plumbing andair a call.
So, Michael Center, before weget into the meat of this great
(05:16):
story, your tennis playingcareer and coaching career.
When did this love for tennisbegin?
And how did you get intocoaching tennis?
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Well, before I answer that question, Sean, you
keep calling it a great story.
I don't know if I call it agreat story.
Well, that's true.
It's it's an interesting story,but when you live it, it was not
a great story.
So I just want to clarify thatit's an interesting, compelling
story.
I I will say that.
Okay.
(05:47):
Uh I became a coach.
I played, you know, I playedhigh school basketball and I
played high school tennis.
And I I was a decent high schooltennis player, not a great
player.
Uh, won the state championship,but I was not a national stud by
any stretch of the imagination.
I went to the University ofKansas and played there for four
(06:08):
years, had a phenomenalexperience there, uh, great
coach, and decided I wanted togo to graduate school and and
pursue a master's in athleticsadministration and sports
psychology.
I I envisioned myself becomingan athletic director or perhaps
a commissioner of a conference.
That was my long-range goal.
(06:28):
And and as I was working andjust completed my degree, I get
a call from a guy named ScottPeroman, who was my college
coach, who had just they justswitched the uh divided the
program where he used to coachboth teams.
Now he was just coaching themen, and they were hiring a
women's coach.
And he called me and said, Iwant you to come back and be the
(06:49):
women's tennis coach at theUniversity of Kansas.
I was 25 years old.
SPEAKER_02 (06:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Um, I hadn't thought about coaching at the time.
I'd served as an assistant forhim for a year, kind of just as
a filler.
I enjoyed it, but I I hadn'tdidn't plan on pursuing that as
a as a career.
And I ended up going back and Iloved it and and I became a
college tennis coach.
But um, you know, at that timethere was no money in a in a
(07:15):
sport like that.
You just you worked because youloved it, and I didn't think it
would last forever, but youknow, I ended up doing it for
nearly 30 years.
SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
Well, I can relate to there's not a lot of money
into it.
Those first two jobs in in myformer media career.
I look back now and I'mthinking, how did I have a life
and how did I live?
But we, you know, you and I canrelate.
We made it happen.
You you make sacrifices, but youdid receive a really great
(07:44):
opportunity.
And I and I know tennis, men'sand women's tennis at the
collegiate level aren't revenuesports.
And but that's it's hard to talkabout or under forget people to
understand what that's likebecause it's football,
basketball, and some schoolseven baseball.
But you get a big timeopportunity and a really good
(08:05):
program, men's and women's atUniversity of Texas in Austin.
And for from 2000 to 2019, whenyou took that job, the the
Pennick Allison courts at thattime, there weren't many
facilities like that, correct?
Across the country.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
Well, Pennick Allison was built and opened in
1986.
So when I arrived, it was 14years old.
Um, it was still a top-tiertennis center.
It needed a little refurbishing,it needed a little paint and you
know, a little updated, um uh alittle up some updates in
certain areas, but it was stilluh a great um facility to to
(08:49):
coach.
And the obviously the Universityof Texas is a it's one of the
elite uh institutions andathletic departments in the
country.
So I had been at TCU, I reallyenjoyed TCU.
We had a really nice team, itwas a really great school, but I
felt like the challenge of beingat the University of Texas was
something I couldn't pass on.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
You were tasked to do something that I thought from
afar, and I'll and I'll go aheadand tell the story.
And in 2013, the UT Dell SeatonHospital, there were plans to
okay, we're gonna eliminate theIrwin Center, which is the what
we call here in Austin, the oldschool Austinites, the super
drum.
(09:27):
It's where UT men's and women'sbasketball played for several
years, since I think 1977 on.
It had a great run, but that wasgoing to be a part or is now a
part of the UT Del CetonHospital, but the Pennick
Allison courts were in the way,so to speak.
So you how does a coach of anon-revenue sport how do you
(09:52):
accept that fact when you'retold that and then be told you
need to raise the money to, Imean, how do you get people to
donate to a non-revenue sport tohave another?
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
When I arrived at Texas in 2000, I really felt
that we should try to constructsome indoor courts.
We had no indoor courts to topractice or play when it rained
or it got cold.
And so I felt like we neededthat.
But that took about 10, 11 yearsto put that project together, to
find the right place to raise.
(10:27):
We raised about$8 million.
Um we had two really significantdonations made uh by the Weller
family and by a gentleman nameduh Graham Whaling, so it's
called the Egder uh the WellerTennis Center and the Graham
Whaling Courts.
Um but that was for indoorcourts, which you don't have to
(10:52):
have to play tennis at theUniversity of Texas.
You have to have outdoor courts,there's just no way around it.
So when we found out that thethat the tennis center was gonna
be torn down to put the the Delluh you know hospital up, we
Delos Dawes was the athleticdirector at the time.
We had talked and we were gonnabuild the facility at Whitaker
(11:14):
Fields at 51st in Guadalupe, andhe was very specific, you have a
$15 million budget to build thefacility.
Well, Deloth left in, I think,October of 2013, if my memory
serves me correctly.
And Steve Patterson came in, andChris Plonsky assumed a very
large leadership role within thedepartment.
(11:36):
And I was told soon after, a fewmonths later, that that$15
million was no longer availableand that we would not be
building at Whitaker Fields, andthat we needed to raise myself
or anyone or the athleticdepartment$10 million.
And when we reached$10 million,that we would put a shovel in
(11:57):
the ground.
Now that was a daunting feeling.
That was the first time I feltlike, oh my God, are we gonna
have a tennis program?
And how in the hell am I gonnacome up with$10 million?
And we need it today.
We need it like six months ago,right?
And we need a place to build thecourts, which we didn't have
either.
We decided we weren't gonnabuild them at Whitaker Fields,
(12:19):
which was not the the greatestlocation.
Anybody knows the campus knowsthat's 30 blocks north of the
stadium, and it's not that easyfor the kids to get back and
forth.
But we didn't have a we didn'tnot only didn't have a facility,
we didn't even have a location,let alone the$10 million.
So we were stuck at that point,and we were practicing at
Whitaker.
We would go out there, we had alittle um uh mobile unit with a
(12:44):
porta potty kind of attachedinside, and we would go out
there and and practice.
And then we would use CaservilleTennis Center for some matches.
Sometimes we play at Westwood,sometimes we'd play out the polo
club.
So we were like uh we were justtraveling all over the place and
picking guys up and driving allover town to to get things done.
But yeah, that was a daunting uhfeeling of how the heck are we
(13:08):
gonna get this done?
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Well, and it and it's for the viewers just and
and and listeners to you knoweducated, it it's it's a
constant for all ADs, it'sconstant thought of where
certain programs are gonna befive, 10 years from now.
Um, fundraising, it's it's it'sconstant at these power four
programs.
And for a tennis coach fromnon-revenue, uh you know, that's
(13:33):
tough.
And I'll tell you when I wasworking at K View, uh, it was
that time, and Mike Barnes and Iwere working together at K View
here in Austin, and we weretalking about it, and then we
thought, that'd be a greatstory.
Um, where in the hell are theygonna play?
And I uh you had the CoswellTennis Center, and what
(13:53):
everything you mentioned, I'mthinking, how are they gonna do
this?
And I just kept wondering, iscenter, is he really in charge
of fundraising too?
SPEAKER_00 (14:03):
Yeah, I I wouldn't say that I was in charge of
fundraising.
We have a foundation that's incharge of the fundraising, but I
think that was a very difficulttask for them, right?
To be honest with you.
And I had most of theconnections within the tennis
community.
You know, I'd been there forquite a while.
I knew the people that wereinterested in the program, so I
did feel that it kind of fell onmy shoulders to do it.
(14:27):
And I because I don't want tosay that the foundation didn't
try, but we none of us werehaving success in raising money,
where we would go and say, Hey,help us build outdoor courts,
and people would say, Well, theuniversity tore the courts down,
they made that choice.
They're the ones that shouldreplace the facility, which made
(14:47):
sense.
No one said that with the indoorbecause we never had an indoor,
right?
But with the outdoor, it waslike, why would I give money to
something that you guys chose totear down?
And so that was that was a toughsell, I have to admit.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
And then you fast forward to I think, yeah, the
year 2019, and it was a teamthat had national championship
ambitions, you you thought itwas, and very competitive.
But that year, how could you sumit up in a few words what the
(15:21):
how to describe what that year2019 was like for you?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Well, we've had a uh we I knew we had a good team.
We had four seniors and twojuniors in the starting lineup,
and we had been a top five teamin 17.
We had we had been a top five toeight team and in 18, but we
didn't finish the year the way Ithought we could finish it.
(15:47):
And I felt like I'd made acouple mistakes with the lineup,
and I I really looked at myselfin the mirror after that 18
season.
I was pretty unhappy with withthe way we completed it.
And we got off to a good start,19.
We just we we I felt like I knewwhat I needed to do with our
lineup, with our training, withwith how I spoke to the team,
(16:08):
and that this team was ready.
And we we were two in thecountry.
We had one loss to Ohio State atthe national team indoors um uh
going into the spring, and and Ifelt like we were in position to
be one of the teams for sure.
There were probably two or threeteams that that could win it
all.
North Carolina, maybe the fourthteam, and we had already beaten
(16:29):
North Carolina, uh Wake Forest,um, Ohio State, and um and
Florida, maybe four or fiveteams.
But we we were definitely in themix and could do it.
My world, my world uh changeddrastically on March the 12th.
Uh it was a Tuesday morning, uh2019.
We were supposed to play ricethat evening.
(16:51):
Uh, I was getting up, I wastaking my time that morning.
We we were we weren't playingtill six o'clock or seven
o'clock that night.
And we had a huge matchscheduled at home on Thursday
against Ohio State, the onlyteam that had beaten us.
We had really uh pumped thatmatch up.
I expected a massive crowd uhfor that match, and and I felt
(17:11):
like we were in a great positionto beat them and and become the
number one team in the country.
And um I get this knock on mydoor, uh, not really a knock, a
crashing noise on my door.
I thought someone was injured orhurt and and needed help, and I
sprinted to my door.
I was in my underwear and at-shirt.
(17:32):
It was early in the morning, andin come, I don't even know,
seven, eight, nine FBI agentswho immediately shackled me at
my ankles and uh and my wristand wouldn't tell me what was
going on and whisked me downtownuh and threw me in a cell.
So it was a you know, it was aharrowing experience, to be
(17:52):
honest with you.
It was and it all happened infront of my family, which was
uh, I don't think it needed tobe done that way.
I don't think it was necessary.
Some people had it done, somepeople didn't have it done, but
um they wanted to embarrass me,and they wanted to embarrass as
many people as they could thatday, and and that's what they
chose to do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
What Michael Center's talking about, it was
the alleged alleged admissionscandal across the country, and
and I'll be honest with you, I II I remember this story when it
broke.
Didn't think much of it until Isaw your name, and then I gained
interest because I was workingthat day, and I remember you
(18:36):
know, we we were part ofpromoting the the match against
Ohio State at the gorgeous brandnew facility right there by
Dishfall Field, the baseballstadium, and I'm thinking, okay,
now I'm having to be theprofessional and go do a live
shot from the tennis center.
(18:57):
And I'm thinking, all right,well, what about the human side
of it?
Are you okay?
In the video of you after youwere arrested.
I was just blown away by this.
So from a national nationwideperspective, put this in
perspective for everyone, whatthis admission scandal was all
(19:20):
about.
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Well, in a nutshell, um, there was a guy in
California, and he wasorchestrating um through
coaches, administrators, um,ways to help kids be admitted to
school.
Um, we all know that that goeson in in various ways across the
(19:44):
country.
Kids get into school, you know,lots whether you're relatives
with someone that's on thelegislature, whatever, you know,
people have gotten into school.
Um I had done it one, I gotinvolved in it one time when we
were trying to raise money forthis facility.
It was a poor choice on my part,but I did present it to the
(20:04):
school.
Uh, I sat down with someone, Iexplained to them that this
young man would never playtennis at the University of
Texas.
I was desperate to raise$10million.
The father was well off and hecould help us.
And so they issued the nationalletter of intent, knowing that
this young man would not playtennis, that he was going to
(20:26):
become the basketball manager.
So he had to be vetted, he hadto go through a physical, he had
to do uh be signed off by theathletic director, he had to
meet with the compliance peopleone-on-one, he had to go through
everything.
So there was no secret to this.
Um, this young man then washired by the athletic
department, became thebasketball manager.
(20:46):
Shaka Smart was the new coach,and he's working.
And when you work as a studentathlete or student like that,
you are required to meet withcompliance every three months.
So there's a it's you don't justwalk in the door unknown and
just go through the system.
Everybody knows who you are,where you are, and they assign
(21:06):
him a specific room in JesterHall to live in.
So no one at that point had cometo me and said, How in the world
did this young man go from beinga basket tennis player to the
basketball manager?
Not one person, because the factof the matter is everybody knew
who he was.
So I'm sitting there in thiscell now, and I'm my mind is
(21:29):
racing.
I have no idea what's going on.
And the only thing I can thinkof is this this young man.
And I'm thinking, well, the onething I know for sure, the
University of Texas will standbehind me.
There's no doubt in my mind.
There's way too many signatures,way too much evidence.
They'll come out and they'llsay, We we know we were
(21:50):
involved, we helped this youngman get admitted, we accepted
money for not only for theuniversity, but through the
athletic department.
It totaled, I don't know,$600,000 to$700,000.
And this will start to go away.
Well, that didn't happen.
That didn't happen.
And immediately I realized whenI well, it started when I walked
(22:15):
outside the first day, and Idon't know if you were there,
but there were about 30 to 40,maybe 50 people screaming my
name, taking my picture.
I'd never seen anything like it.
And I was horrified.
One guy almost tripped andkilled himself chasing me to
take my picture, and I'm likereaching over, like, buddy, it's
not worth it.
Get up.
You know, I don't want you tohurt yourself over this.
(22:36):
And I remember saying to themedia that day, I said, Hey, I
don't really know everythingthat's going on here, but the
team plays tonight, and it'sgonna be a far more interesting
story to go watch the team playagainst rice tonight than
screaming my name and taking mypicture.
Well, I started to go home, andwhen I went home, in the next
few days, I started to realizethat this was a national story.
(22:58):
This wasn't about just me.
This was this had movie starsand all these people involved.
And and I'm still thinking,well, the university will, even
though they had fired meimmediately, they cannot not
eventually come out and say,hey, this is what happened, this
is how this happens.
Well, within two to three weeks,I have to go, and the prosecutor
(23:20):
says to me, you know, this iswhat we're gonna charge you
with.
And I said, Well, this is howthis happens.
These are this how these thingswork.
You understand that how thenational letter of intent works.
And he said, What's the nationalletter of intent?
I said, Well, it's only the mostimportant piece to this whole
story because that's the letterthat shows the documentation
with all the signatures thatthis is how this kids get
(23:42):
admitted to school.
And he he says, I said, Well,they knew.
And he said, No, they didn't.
Texas knew nothing.
I said, Of course they did.
It's not possible to be admittedwithout them knowing, it just
doesn't work that way.
Either you agree to what I sayhappened, or I'll I'll make sure
that we add charges on to youand and and I'll make sure you
(24:02):
go to jail for a long time.
And at that point, I just saiduh guilty, you know, within 24
hours because I I just didn'thave it in me.
I I couldn't fight that.
If they if they had no interestin the truth, zero.
And the university showed nointerest in defending me.
So what was I supposed to do atthat point?
(24:23):
I knew that I had not defraudedthem.
I knew I'd made a mistake, and Iowned up to my mistake, and I
told them my mistake, because Iaccepted some money well after
the fact, even though I I triedto give most of it away, that's
still wrong on my part.
But at that point, they're notthe school wasn't going to
defend me, and the and and thedepartment wanted they wanted
guilty convictions more thananything.
(24:46):
And even when we did this bookand we wrote it, the guy that
helped me called the prosecutingattorney.
And he asked him, he's like,Well, what tell me about that
conversation?
And he said, I don't rememberanything about that
conversation.
The only thing I knew is I had57 people and I wanted to get 57
guilty, please.
(25:06):
And that's the mindset that theyhad.
They were not looking for myside of the story or the truth
or what happened.
They wanted people to to sayguilty.
And once you say you're guilty,your rights essentially just
disappear.
And so that was the beginning ofmy story.
And now we're six years later,and I felt like I had a chance
(25:29):
to tell my side.
So that's why one of the reasonsI wrote the book.
Along with I wanted to show thatI'm not like here to point
fingers and say this is thisperson's fault or that person's
fault.
This is just the truth on howthese things happened, and this
is how you come back fromsomething when something doesn't
go well in your life, and that'sreally the intent of the book.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
You serve time in prison, and during that time,
shortly thereafter, during thatinitial phase, you have to watch
your team win the nationalchampionship.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
Well, that happened two months after this happened.
Just be well before I went toprison.
This happened right away.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
You couldn't really enjoy or celebrate your your
your guys, your team, becauseyou had this over your head.
You're you're dealing with it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:25):
That was one of the most joyous and painful days of
my life.
To watch a team win the nationalchampionship that that I had
coached and recruited, you know,that four seniors and two
juniors.
So I'd been with these guys forfive years.
Some I recruited longer thanthat, six years, win the
national championship and not bethere was without a doubt one of
(26:49):
the most painful experiences ofmy life.
I I cried like a little babythat night.
It was it was it was it was onESPN.
I watched the whole thing at theschool, basically told the
players to stay away from me.
They had they ended up having nocontact with me after they came
back.
They were that I was told theywere told to avoid me.
Uh it was beyond painful to gothrough that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
You had so many details, and people obviously
are learning about this, and youyou serve you're behind bars, a
different life that you neverwould have imagined, and yet you
come out on the other end andyou become an author of this
(27:35):
book right here, Breaking Serve,and a nice little better
close-up of it.
Alright, so here's the book thatwe're talking about.
Um perfect tennis net for andit's a it's a good description
from championship coach toprison and your journey back.
Now you're years into yourjourney back, and there's a you
(28:01):
I pulled out a few points fromthe book, and you you mentioned
it.
The operation varsity blues.
When we think of varsity blues,we think of the movie about high
school football in an imaginarytown in the state of Texas.
This was far from it.
Briefly talk about thisoperation from a detailed point
(28:22):
of view because it involved youand several other people.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
As far as what operation varsity blues exactly
was.
SPEAKER_02 (28:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:32):
Well, like I said, uh a little earlier, the the
this gentleman in California,this guy Rick Singer, was was
orchestrating um and working.
Some people were deeply involvedin doing this over and over and
over and and running it like abusiness.
There was a there was anadministrator at USC that was
deeply involved in in puringthese opportunities and and
(28:55):
being paid.
And so it was, and then therewere some operating.
I think Felicity Husman'sdaughter, they had someone take
the SAT, which I didn't evenknow was possible.
I I thought that that was apossibility.
I would have never even imaginedthat you could do something like
that.
So I didn't I didn't know any ofthese people.
We did it, I did it, gotinvolved because I needed money
(29:17):
for the tennis center.
Um, that was my only I I toldthe guy that this guy called me
that was in and out of thebasketball office all the time,
um, very close to the team, veryclose to one of the coaches.
And um he called me and I knewhim.
He'd been involved in tennis,and he just said, Hey, can you
help this guy get into school?
(29:37):
I said, Well, I mean, they haveto sign a letter of intent.
And uh, I don't know, but um youknow, we can you can we use this
as a fundraising opportunity forfor tennis?
And and he said, Yeah.
And so I said, I don't want toget in trouble, I don't want to
do anything wrong.
I've never been in trouble.
And he's like, Oh no, this isfine.
You don't worry about this.
(29:58):
Well, uh That wasn't very goodadvice.
So um I I shouldn't have gotteninvolved.
I did, but that was the premiseof it.
Uh people were getting admittedto school, being placed on
teams.
Now the difference between a lotof these schools, most of these
schools, they were all private,uh UFC, Georgetown, Yale,
whatnot, where you would getcoded as a as a student athlete,
(30:21):
but you didn't have to sign afinancial aid agreement which
was attached to a nationalletter of intent.
So people could go in, they'd becoded, and then they would just
kind of disappear.
I think that's what LoriLaughlin's kids did.
I don't know the exact details,but at Texas, it was just
different.
And that's why I'm like, well,our system was different.
You have to sign a nationalletter of intent, the same as
(30:42):
Vince Young or Colt McCoy wouldsign that same piece of paper,
this young man signed it.
So everybody knows who you are.
You do not walk in to school atthe University of Texas a
student athlete in any shape orform without everybody knowing
who you are.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
And so even a walk-on.
SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
Well, this isn't even a walk-on because with when
you sign a national letter ofintent, there has to be a
financial aid component.
So he had a book scholarship, sothat was worth about$400.
So everybody, whether you're afull see in tennis, we had we
were equivalency sport.
Some sports were headcountsports like men's basketball or
football, where you just get afull.
(31:20):
In tennis, we divided it up.
So this was a common scholarshipfor a tennis player, but
everybody had to sign that to beadmitted to be on our team.
And uh that's just the way itworked.
And so they had to go throughthe same process that, like I
said, uh a star football playerwould have to go through.
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
So I wasn't trying to hide this from them.
Um, it was made very clear tothem.
And and then they called me backa couple of years later, and I
said, No, I don't need to engagewith this.
We're we're gonna get our tenniscenter, I knew at this point.
And and I thought I'd neverspeak to them again until they
called me one day.
I was getting on an airplane,just kind of set me up, and the
(32:04):
FBI and and was listening, and Iguess they felt like they had
enough information just off thisone phone call because they knew
absolutely nothing about me,nothing about the university,
nothing about tennis.
Um, and that's all they needed,and and that's when it uh they
decided to rest me.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
You another part of your book, um it's called The
Ten Months of Uncertainty.
One can only who has not readthe book would can only imagine
that's your life not in the freeworld behind bars.
How do you sum up?
What did you learn maybe duringthat 10 month period?
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
That well, the 10 months was prior to serving a
six-month sentence.
So what happens is I actuallywent and I was I was uh I pled
guilty at the end of of uhApril, I believe, and I was told
that my sentencing would be inOctober.
(33:11):
Well, then they said no, youhave to wait till February.
So then all my family,everybody's gonna go with me on
February 4th.
Then you'll get an email maybe atwo days before saying, nope, we
want you to come February 24th.
You have no control overanything in your life.
It's so amazing that they cantreat a person like this.
(33:33):
But so all your tickets,everything that you've done has
to be changed.
And then and they don't have togive you any notice or any even
explanation.
So all of a sudden, I'm finallyget there on February 24th and
I'm sentenced to six months,which I'm supposed to then
report on April the 6th, 2020.
(33:55):
Well, we all know what happenedin March of 2020, COVID hit the
world, and and the United Statesshut down essentially in the
middle of March of 2020.
So now I'm reporting.
They have no protocol, theydon't know what to do, they
don't know how to handle this.
So to quarantine you, they putme in a medium security cell,
(34:21):
which is like a true prison cellwhere they shut the door and
you're in a 10 by 10 cell whereyou know you're you're isolated,
that they said was for COVIDreasons.
Well, the first 48 hours theyput me on suicide watch for no
apparent reason, in my opinion.
They said, You look nervous.
I said, Yeah, I'm nervous.
(34:41):
I've never never thought I'd begoing to prison.
And they they embarrass you,they they dehumanize you, they
have you take your clothes off,they turn the lights on for 48
hours, they you the airconditioning was off.
I'm sweating like a like I'venever sweat in my life.
And then they put me in anotherplace for 12 days before I put
(35:03):
in this camp, which is like amini minimum security place.
Well, then COVID ravaged theentire place.
We everyone caught COVID.
We're all trapped in a roomtogether.
For 42 days, I didn't walkoutside.
Uh, I'm just indoors with peoplewho are coughing and wheezing
and and sick.
(35:23):
And um so it was quite anexperience there for four and a
half months before I was sent towhat they call a halfway house
where they're supposed to helpme reintegrate into society.
I asked them why I am here.
I don't really need this at thispoint.
Uh, I just got out of COVID.
Now you're putting me into a newpopulation.
And basically they said, Tough,you we make money off you by
(35:48):
having your body in this bed.
Wow.
Wow.
You're gonna stay here so thatwe can get paid by the
government to have this bedfilled.
So finally I got home.
I had two weeks with this anklemonitor, and but I couldn't
leave the the region for a yearwithout permission.
My father got very sick andended up passing away about
(36:14):
three months after I was home.
And um, so it was a prettytraumatic period in my life, to
say the least.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
You and I were talking about therapy, and I
can't imagine uh how impactfulthat has been for you to
transition back because you uhyou and I uh were talking about
it.
I've been uh in therapy myselfuh for the better part of this
year.
Um that has that been somethingthat has helped you through
(36:43):
this?
SPEAKER_00 (36:45):
I did go to therapy.
Um I I I met uh several timeswith with one guy, I met with
another person as well.
I I I'm I'm a big believer thattherapy can help a lot of people
in this world, and there's noshame in getting therapy.
Um, I've gotten a lot of helpfrom my friends in my family.
(37:05):
I've been very fortunate thathave a lot of people stand
behind me throughout thisprocess.
Um, and so I I've used therapy,but I I've also leaned on on
some really good friends in myin my family, my wife and my
children, and my mother and myaunt and my brother uh have all
been incredible supporters.
(37:26):
So I'm a lucky guy.
I mean, this story is kind ofamazing when I when I retell it,
but I'm a very fortunate personand that I have such a strong
support system that that stoodwith me throughout all this.
SPEAKER_01 (37:39):
Now that's amazing, and that's true for everybody.
And I, you know, I think we alllive for you see a story like
this, let's just say this is notyou, you weren't involved, and
you read this book.
Um, people walk away, you know.
We I think we're all seekers toan extent.
We and that's one of the reasonswe read books like this, because
(38:01):
it's relatable to an extent.
And what you went through, I Iwish that upon nobody.
SPEAKER_00 (38:09):
But I don't I don't wish that on anyone, my worst
enemy.
I I I am not into redemption,and and and as far I mean as far
as being vindictive towardssomeone is the word I wanted to
use.
I don't think this helped me, Idon't think this would help
anyone go through something likethis.
It was it was unnecessary, butit happened, and that's the way
life is.
Sometimes things happen thatthat are out of your control.
(38:33):
But there's this book waswritten, not to to point fingers
or to say, woe is me, but thisbook was written to say, this is
how I recovered.
These are the things that Ichose to do, to to coach myself
through these moments and uh andcome out on the other side.
And and the the most amazingpiece to this is so many people
(38:56):
have responded in a way ofsaying, Thank you.
I'm going through a difficulttime in my life.
Reading your book has inspiredme to make me believe that I can
do it.
And that's been the neat partabout this book.
SPEAKER_01 (39:09):
Inspiring people you would never think that you would
reach.
Exactly.
I'm gonna read, I'm gonna readsomething from the goat of
college swimming.
Okay, um the very back of yourbook, Eddie Reese, um, who has
built the I I mean, I hate touse the word unbeatable or
(39:32):
untouchable program that is UTswimming and diving.
The GOAT Eddie Reese.
For those who are maybe watchingother parts of the country or
don't know swimming very well,UT head swimming coach, um,
15-time NCAA champion,three-time U.S.
Olympic head coach.
(39:54):
This is what he had to say aboutyou, and it's written right here
on the back of your book.
Michael Center is a very goodcoach and an even better person.
He always takes the time to takecare of people.
He's gone through a very toughtime.
The penalty he paid wasdifficult to accept, and the
recovery was more difficult.
(40:15):
Recovery was possible, as yousaid, with the great support
from family and friends andrelying on his personal values.
He is a special person.
You didn't ask him to say that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Yeah, Eddie, Eddie was uh an incredible mentor of
mine at Texas.
Uh, when I really needed help, Iwould go and see Eddie.
Uh, I would sit in his office,ask him questions, whether it's
how to coach the team, how totrain the team, what he thought
about things, uh, about life.
(40:52):
And we always had a little dealthat when he won the national
championship, I would buy him asubway sandwich.
But, you know, so I had to buy alot of subway sandwiches during
my my time at Texas.
But I think we forged a reallyneat relationship.
Um, I looked up to him and uh Iasked him to write something on
(41:12):
my behalf, and you know, he cameup with it.
And you know, to have Eddie onthe back and DeLoss in there in
the in the in the in the bookreally meant a lot to me.
Um they were just two incrediblepeople during my career that
just meant a lot to me and did alot for me, and I learned a lot
(41:34):
from both of them.
So yeah, that was that wasfantastic to have Eddie to have
Eddie do that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:40):
And he he's such a character and an even high
quality person, as well as DeLost Dodds is as well.
Um, you get to if you get thebook, you'll understand more
about him and and center'scoaching pillars, which leads us
to this.
We uh I think you need a booksigning.
And do you have any in Austinbooked yet?
(42:02):
Pun intended.
SPEAKER_00 (42:04):
I don't have a book signing at this point.
I um I'm doing one this weekendat TCU, and we're uh we're gonna
have a book signing on Saturdaymorning, and then I'm gonna give
a clinic, a tennis clinic tofollow.
So it should be a fun day.
I know you and I are neighbors.
We live in the same neighborhoodin in Austin, so I know that you
(42:26):
like to hang out at theboulevard, so I'm gonna put it
on you.
Oh spread room.
If we can get one set up there,because I did have someone ask
if we could do a book signing inAustin.
And um, so that that's uh that'sthat's a project I'm gonna put
on you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
Let's work on that.
And because the bully is also asponsor of this podcast.
Uh their partners, uh, you know,they they do a great job, and
they're one of the last fewremaining Austin OG, um, holes
in the wall, but a great place,and you know, it's a good place.
(43:01):
You you you everyone knows yourname, but we will work on that.
All right, the uh man cavestory.
Mac Brown had a great one.
You have to go back to hisepisode to listen to it.
(43:24):
Uh, it was absolutely hilarious.
But Mac has such a great memoryand know remembers everybody's
names that he even met whenprobably when he was three years
old, he remembers everybody.
But uh Man Cave story consistsof anything that's as comical
today as it was when ithappened.
(43:46):
Is there anything tennis relatedduring your coaching days, maybe
during a match, or anything thathappened with any of your teams
or players that would be ManCave story worthy?
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Uh had had many of them, had many of them.
Um one time we were playing, andmy good friend, he was a
longtime coach at USC.
We were we were I was at theUniversity of Kansas and he was
at Fresno State, and we both hadgood teams that year.
We were both in the top 10 inthe country, and we were playing
(44:21):
a match in Lawrence, Kansas, andwe were playing on these very
fast indoor courts, and theball, there were two or three
dead spots on a few of thecourts, and obviously I knew
where they were, and I knewthere was a critical point, and
I would always wear a suit, acoat and tie.
I was a young coach, I wouldonly wear a suit and tie to
(44:41):
night matches indoors.
Get all dressed up.
I thought I was a basketballcoach or something back in the
day.
And the guy hits a criticalpoint.
I think it's in a tiebreaker inthe third set with the match on
the line.
It hits that dead spot, it kindof dies, but it's in.
It's clearly in.
I know that spot.
I know the ball is in.
The umpire is sitting there.
(45:02):
I love this guy.
We're still friends.
He sent me a note the other day,but he's kind of eating some
popcorn as he's sitting overthere on the sideline, on the
side of the court uh doing thematch.
And he says, the guy calls itout, and the umpire says, Yeah,
the ball's out.
And I mean, I lost it that day.
I started throwing my jacket,tearing my tie off, screaming at
(45:22):
the top of my lungs.
I had a little more juice inthose days, but uh yeah, I had a
few stories like that in myyouth when I started coaching
and we ended up losing seven,six, and a third.
That was a critical point.
And I talked to the kid likeeight years later, and I said,
What did you think?
He said, Oh, yeah, that ball wasgood.
It was good.
I'm like, Oh, thanks for tellingme now.
(45:45):
So uh, but that's the way itworks in college tennis.
You call your own lines and thenyou have to have the umpire
overrule it if you disagree.
But yeah, I had a few funnystories along the way.
But it was it was a lot of fun.
I had a great, great timecoaching.
I I missed coaching.
I love the kids.
I loved, I loved a lot of it.
I know it's changed a lot sinceI I last did it.
We didn't have NIL and some ofthe things that they're deal
(46:07):
dealing with today, but but Ihad a lot of fun.
I I I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01 (46:11):
That's a great story.
We'll have to find it, try tofind a way to dig up that uh an
old photo of you coaching tennisin a full-on suit.
SPEAKER_00 (46:21):
I can't, that's how I would do it.
I would get all dressed up and Iwould, you know, walk in.
I like I, you know, it whenLarry Brown was the coach at
Kansas, you know, he was likePat Riley and Larry Brown were
the two guys that were the bestdressed coaches.
SPEAKER_01 (46:36):
They were hands down.
Hands down.
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
These guys, when they walked on the court,
everybody not only wanted towatch their team, but they
wanted to see what they werewearing that night.
And so I'm like, all right, I'mgonna be like Larry Brown.
I'm gonna wear a yeah, I'm gonnaget some a nice suit or a couple
nice suits and some ties, andand uh I'm gonna go out on the
court and and look like I knowwhat I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01 (46:57):
Well, it worked for you.
SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
We won a few, but it was it was pretty funny that
that that's how we used to doit.
SPEAKER_01 (47:03):
That's a great man cave story, Michael Sinner.
We're gonna take a very quickbreak and we're gonna do, we're
gonna end another episode ofStories Inside the Man Cave the
way we like to, and that is withpositivity.
We'll see you on the other sideof this break.
unknown (47:19):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (47:21):
The Saxton name resonates in Austin.
Jim's late father, James Saxton,is a Longhorn legend, a Heisman
finalist while playing for DarylK.
Royal.
And Jimmy is a UT footballlegacy from Westlake.
He has been insuring Austin fordecades.
He and his staff will give youold school hospitality when
(47:41):
servicing your insurance needs.
(48:05):
Michael Center, long term tenniscoach, and now an author.
Breaking serve.
Gotta get your it's prettysimple.
I got mine.
Just so everyone knows, he didnot give me a copy.
I voluntarily purchased onAmazon because I like to support
authors.
Thank you.
(48:25):
I appreciate that.
You're more than welcome.
It's a good read.
Once you get into it, it can'tstop.
I just have not had a chance totruly finish it.
And if we're gonna be honest, itis uh 131 pages, and it ends
with your final thought, and Idon't want to ruin that for
anybody.
(48:46):
But we love positivity in aworld that appears or feels as
if there's a lot of negativity.
Tell me something good, mybrother.
SPEAKER_00 (48:58):
Tell you something good, you know.
I think you know, people talkabout this all the time, but but
having gratitude, and I I'm I'mso good right now.
I I'm spending time on thecourt, I'm helping kids, I'm
talking about this book.
People have loved the book.
It's been so exciting to see thethe commentary and the
(49:21):
testimonials.
I think we I saw today we've had26 reviews on on Amazon, and
they've all been five-star.
And uh so it's been anincredibly therapeutic.
You talk about therapy, this hasbeen therapeutic for me to see
people respond to this book insuch a positive way.
And so, you know, I I look at itlike my life got got turned
(49:42):
upside down, but at the end ofthe day, I'm a really lucky guy,
and and this project has made meeven feel luckier.
And and like I said, I've got agreat family, I've got great
friends.
So, you know, if anybody's gonethrough anything, and my feeling
is adversity finds us all, it'sgonna find you.
So if you've had adversity inyour life, whether you're a
tennis player or not, I thinkthis book can help you.
(50:05):
And the the the one of the bestcommentaries I got was, I'm
gonna use your five pillars inmy everyday life to help me get
through life.
And I'm like, wow, that waspretty powerful.
So um, that's my sense ofpositivity.
I'm lucky.
This book has been a blessing tome, and uh, I hope you guys uh
(50:26):
people go out and get it andenjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (50:28):
And we're gonna keep promoting it.
And I really what's good for meis for you to be so transparent
and uh talk about this entirestory in its entirety and to
really paint the picture of whatyou had to endure, and to be
(50:49):
honest with you, all of ourlives can be uh abruptly
interrupted, and we don't knowthe answer why sometimes, but I
I'm inspired by your mentalfortitude and for you to give
back after something like that.
Get yourself a copy of BreakingServe.
I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00 (51:09):
Yeah, I just like to say one thing.
I have a website calledbreakingserve.com.
You can get the book there aswell, as well as on Amazon.
And I'm doing some publicspeaking.
So if you're interested in in mecoming to speak to your team or
your organization, you can justsend me an email through the
website.
And I'm doing more and morespeaking now.
Um, and hopefully we'll get thisuh book signing set up and and
(51:31):
I'll come to Austin.
And I'm in Fort Worth right nowa lot doing some work, but but
I'm at back and forth, and we'llwe'll do a book signing there.
That'd be fun.
SPEAKER_01 (51:39):
We got to get it set up at the legendary we call it
the bully, the boulevard bar andgrill in Far West Boulevard in
Austin.
We'll we're gonna take care ofthat, and I guarantee you we're
gonna get that set up.
Michael Center, appreciate you,brother.
Thank you.
Okay, you have a great night.
Thank you.
Anytime we can talk about peoplethat comes from uh adverse
situations and overcoming that,uh, such as Michael Center's
(52:03):
story.
You know what?
It's always good to talk aboutit.
Honest is a strong word, and we all need honesty
when it comes to plumbing andHVAC beats.
Somebody who will take care ofthe repairs efficiently and with
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Honest Plumbing in Air is who Itrust, and they take pride in
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Honest Plumbing in Air, where ahandshake still means something.
(01:09):
Thank you for making time towatch episode 481.
It is Let's Talk About It.
And you know, throughout thesepast four or five years, we've
had some inspiring guests, someof which have been authors of
books.
Life, adversity in life hasmotivated people to not only
have a new perspective in life,but to write books.
(01:32):
For example, Katie RussellNewler back in 2020 talked about
her book.
It was basically about being acancer survivor, losing her
mother to cancer, and fulfillinga dream to visit all the Major
League Baseball Parks across thecountry, a dream that she and
her late mother said that theywere going to do.
(01:55):
And it is an amazing book.
Then Brandon Puffer, the formerMajor League Baseball player
whose dreams and baseball careercut short due to imprisonment.
Just one bad night, one baddecision.
And Brandon Puffer, one of thegreatest human beings I have
ever met.
Then we have the former Baylormoms who wrote a book,
(02:19):
co-authored a book to inspirecurrent college athletes,
parents on how to navigate thetough landscape it is of being a
parent of a college athlete.
Well, today we're gonna meet aman who is one of the more
respected coaches in collegetennis.
(02:43):
His life came to an screechinghalt, so to speak, an abrupt
change when he was the headcoach at the University of
Texas.
Michael Sinner and his book.
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Sometimes you have to wait to reach the pinnacle,
and I guess I uh I've I'vefinally gotten there.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Oh man.
I just you just made my wholeweek, my whole 2025.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
Don't tell chip, don't tell Chip Brown, but but
Brown.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
He's a man cave VIP alumni, Chip.
Sorry, brother.
Uh he's been elevated over here.
Uh hey, but you've got a greatstory.
You were uh you've recruited,coached, and and really have had
a really a good life, goodcareer to talk about.
And honestly, when you and Italked about this uh before we
(04:13):
planned out this episode, it wasan awful occurrence that you
know a lot of people couldn'timagine going through something
as you did.
But man, what you've done withthis, it's such a great story.
And before we get to that, besure to follow us on all of our
social media platforms.
(04:33):
You see them all there.
There's so many.
Uh, and you can the best partabout YouTube, you can subscribe
to it, but that word'smisleading, you can subscribe to
it for free.
And we got to give a shout outto all of our sponsors,
including Honest Plumbing andAir, where a handshake still
means something.
You know, we really don't havethe four seasons, but I would
(04:53):
highly recommend before we getour first freeze, which probably
won't happen until December, getthe HVAC everything inspected
before it's too late.
You don't want that to happen.
So give uh honest plumbing andair a call.
So, Michael Center, before weget into the meat of this great
(05:16):
story, your tennis playingcareer and coaching career.
When did this love for tennisbegin?
And how did you get intocoaching tennis?
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Well, before I answer that question, Sean, you
keep calling it a great story.
I don't know if I call it agreat story.
Well, that's true.
It's it's an interesting story,but when you live it, it was not
a great story.
So I just want to clarify thatit's an interesting, compelling
story.
I I will say that.
Okay.
(05:47):
Uh I became a coach.
I played, you know, I playedhigh school basketball and I
played high school tennis.
And I I was a decent high schooltennis player, not a great
player.
Uh, won the state championship,but I was not a national stud by
any stretch of the imagination.
I went to the University ofKansas and played there for four
(06:08):
years, had a phenomenalexperience there, uh, great
coach, and decided I wanted togo to graduate school and and
pursue a master's in athleticsadministration and sports
psychology.
I I envisioned myself becomingan athletic director or perhaps
a commissioner of a conference.
That was my long-range goal.
(06:28):
And and as I was working andjust completed my degree, I get
a call from a guy named ScottPeroman, who was my college
coach, who had just they justswitched the uh divided the
program where he used to coachboth teams.
Now he was just coaching themen, and they were hiring a
women's coach.
And he called me and said, Iwant you to come back and be the
(06:49):
women's tennis coach at theUniversity of Kansas.
I was 25 years old.
SPEAKER_02 (06:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Um, I hadn't thought about coaching at the time.
I'd served as an assistant forhim for a year, kind of just as
a filler.
I enjoyed it, but I I hadn'tdidn't plan on pursuing that as
a as a career.
And I ended up going back and Iloved it and and I became a
college tennis coach.
But um, you know, at that timethere was no money in a in a
(07:15):
sport like that.
You just you worked because youloved it, and I didn't think it
would last forever, but youknow, I ended up doing it for
nearly 30 years.
SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
Well, I can relate to there's not a lot of money
into it.
Those first two jobs in in myformer media career.
I look back now and I'mthinking, how did I have a life
and how did I live?
But we, you know, you and I canrelate.
We made it happen.
You you make sacrifices, but youdid receive a really great
(07:44):
opportunity.
And I and I know tennis, men'sand women's tennis at the
collegiate level aren't revenuesports.
And but that's it's hard to talkabout or under forget people to
understand what that's likebecause it's football,
basketball, and some schoolseven baseball.
But you get a big timeopportunity and a really good
(08:05):
program, men's and women's atUniversity of Texas in Austin.
And for from 2000 to 2019, whenyou took that job, the the
Pennick Allison courts at thattime, there weren't many
facilities like that, correct?
Across the country.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
Well, Pennick Allison was built and opened in
1986.
So when I arrived, it was 14years old.
Um, it was still a top-tiertennis center.
It needed a little refurbishing,it needed a little paint and you
know, a little updated, um uh alittle up some updates in
certain areas, but it was stilluh a great um facility to to
(08:49):
coach.
And the obviously the Universityof Texas is a it's one of the
elite uh institutions andathletic departments in the
country.
So I had been at TCU, I reallyenjoyed TCU.
We had a really nice team, itwas a really great school, but I
felt like the challenge of beingat the University of Texas was
something I couldn't pass on.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
You were tasked to do something that I thought from
afar, and I'll and I'll go aheadand tell the story.
And in 2013, the UT Dell SeatonHospital, there were plans to
okay, we're gonna eliminate theIrwin Center, which is the what
we call here in Austin, the oldschool Austinites, the super
drum.
(09:27):
It's where UT men's and women'sbasketball played for several
years, since I think 1977 on.
It had a great run, but that wasgoing to be a part or is now a
part of the UT Del CetonHospital, but the Pennick
Allison courts were in the way,so to speak.
So you how does a coach of anon-revenue sport how do you
(09:52):
accept that fact when you'retold that and then be told you
need to raise the money to, Imean, how do you get people to
donate to a non-revenue sport tohave another?
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
When I arrived at Texas in 2000, I really felt
that we should try to constructsome indoor courts.
We had no indoor courts to topractice or play when it rained
or it got cold.
And so I felt like we neededthat.
But that took about 10, 11 yearsto put that project together, to
find the right place to raise.
(10:27):
We raised about$8 million.
Um we had two really significantdonations made uh by the Weller
family and by a gentleman nameduh Graham Whaling, so it's
called the Egder uh the WellerTennis Center and the Graham
Whaling Courts.
Um but that was for indoorcourts, which you don't have to
(10:52):
have to play tennis at theUniversity of Texas.
You have to have outdoor courts,there's just no way around it.
So when we found out that thethat the tennis center was gonna
be torn down to put the the Delluh you know hospital up, we
Delos Dawes was the athleticdirector at the time.
We had talked and we were gonnabuild the facility at Whitaker
(11:14):
Fields at 51st in Guadalupe, andhe was very specific, you have a
$15 million budget to build thefacility.
Well, Deloth left in, I think,October of 2013, if my memory
serves me correctly.
And Steve Patterson came in, andChris Plonsky assumed a very
large leadership role within thedepartment.
(11:36):
And I was told soon after, a fewmonths later, that that$15
million was no longer availableand that we would not be
building at Whitaker Fields, andthat we needed to raise myself
or anyone or the athleticdepartment$10 million.
And when we reached$10 million,that we would put a shovel in
(11:57):
the ground.
Now that was a daunting feeling.
That was the first time I feltlike, oh my God, are we gonna
have a tennis program?
And how in the hell am I gonnacome up with$10 million?
And we need it today.
We need it like six months ago,right?
And we need a place to build thecourts, which we didn't have
either.
We decided we weren't gonnabuild them at Whitaker Fields,
(12:19):
which was not the the greatestlocation.
Anybody knows the campus knowsthat's 30 blocks north of the
stadium, and it's not that easyfor the kids to get back and
forth.
But we didn't have a we didn'tnot only didn't have a facility,
we didn't even have a location,let alone the$10 million.
So we were stuck at that point,and we were practicing at
Whitaker.
We would go out there, we had alittle um uh mobile unit with a
(12:44):
porta potty kind of attachedinside, and we would go out
there and and practice.
And then we would use CaservilleTennis Center for some matches.
Sometimes we play at Westwood,sometimes we'd play out the polo
club.
So we were like uh we were justtraveling all over the place and
picking guys up and driving allover town to to get things done.
But yeah, that was a daunting uhfeeling of how the heck are we
(13:08):
gonna get this done?
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Well, and it and it's for the viewers just and
and and listeners to you knoweducated, it it's it's a
constant for all ADs, it'sconstant thought of where
certain programs are gonna befive, 10 years from now.
Um, fundraising, it's it's it'sconstant at these power four
programs.
And for a tennis coach fromnon-revenue, uh you know, that's
(13:33):
tough.
And I'll tell you when I wasworking at K View, uh, it was
that time, and Mike Barnes and Iwere working together at K View
here in Austin, and we weretalking about it, and then we
thought, that'd be a greatstory.
Um, where in the hell are theygonna play?
And I uh you had the CoswellTennis Center, and what
(13:53):
everything you mentioned, I'mthinking, how are they gonna do
this?
And I just kept wondering, iscenter, is he really in charge
of fundraising too?
SPEAKER_00 (14:03):
Yeah, I I wouldn't say that I was in charge of
fundraising.
We have a foundation that's incharge of the fundraising, but I
think that was a very difficulttask for them, right?
To be honest with you.
And I had most of theconnections within the tennis
community.
You know, I'd been there forquite a while.
I knew the people that wereinterested in the program, so I
did feel that it kind of fell onmy shoulders to do it.
(14:27):
And I because I don't want tosay that the foundation didn't
try, but we none of us werehaving success in raising money,
where we would go and say, Hey,help us build outdoor courts,
and people would say, Well, theuniversity tore the courts down,
they made that choice.
They're the ones that shouldreplace the facility, which made
(14:47):
sense.
No one said that with the indoorbecause we never had an indoor,
right?
But with the outdoor, it waslike, why would I give money to
something that you guys chose totear down?
And so that was that was a toughsell, I have to admit.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
And then you fast forward to I think, yeah, the
year 2019, and it was a teamthat had national championship
ambitions, you you thought itwas, and very competitive.
But that year, how could you sumit up in a few words what the
(15:21):
how to describe what that year2019 was like for you?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Well, we've had a uh we I knew we had a good team.
We had four seniors and twojuniors in the starting lineup,
and we had been a top five teamin 17.
We had we had been a top five toeight team and in 18, but we
didn't finish the year the way Ithought we could finish it.
(15:47):
And I felt like I'd made acouple mistakes with the lineup,
and I I really looked at myselfin the mirror after that 18
season.
I was pretty unhappy with withthe way we completed it.
And we got off to a good start,19.
We just we we I felt like I knewwhat I needed to do with our
lineup, with our training, withwith how I spoke to the team,
(16:08):
and that this team was ready.
And we we were two in thecountry.
We had one loss to Ohio State atthe national team indoors um uh
going into the spring, and and Ifelt like we were in position to
be one of the teams for sure.
There were probably two or threeteams that that could win it
all.
North Carolina, maybe the fourthteam, and we had already beaten
(16:29):
North Carolina, uh Wake Forest,um, Ohio State, and um and
Florida, maybe four or fiveteams.
But we we were definitely in themix and could do it.
My world, my world uh changeddrastically on March the 12th.
Uh it was a Tuesday morning, uh2019.
We were supposed to play ricethat evening.
(16:51):
Uh, I was getting up, I wastaking my time that morning.
We we were we weren't playingtill six o'clock or seven
o'clock that night.
And we had a huge matchscheduled at home on Thursday
against Ohio State, the onlyteam that had beaten us.
We had really uh pumped thatmatch up.
I expected a massive crowd uhfor that match, and and I felt
(17:11):
like we were in a great positionto beat them and and become the
number one team in the country.
And um I get this knock on mydoor, uh, not really a knock, a
crashing noise on my door.
I thought someone was injured orhurt and and needed help, and I
sprinted to my door.
I was in my underwear and at-shirt.
(17:32):
It was early in the morning, andin come, I don't even know,
seven, eight, nine FBI agentswho immediately shackled me at
my ankles and uh and my wristand wouldn't tell me what was
going on and whisked me downtownuh and threw me in a cell.
So it was a you know, it was aharrowing experience, to be
(17:52):
honest with you.
It was and it all happened infront of my family, which was
uh, I don't think it needed tobe done that way.
I don't think it was necessary.
Some people had it done, somepeople didn't have it done, but
um they wanted to embarrass me,and they wanted to embarrass as
many people as they could thatday, and and that's what they
chose to do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
What Michael Center's talking about, it was
the alleged alleged admissionscandal across the country, and
and I'll be honest with you, I II I remember this story when it
broke.
Didn't think much of it until Isaw your name, and then I gained
interest because I was workingthat day, and I remember you
(18:36):
know, we we were part ofpromoting the the match against
Ohio State at the gorgeous brandnew facility right there by
Dishfall Field, the baseballstadium, and I'm thinking, okay,
now I'm having to be theprofessional and go do a live
shot from the tennis center.
(18:57):
And I'm thinking, all right,well, what about the human side
of it?
Are you okay?
In the video of you after youwere arrested.
I was just blown away by this.
So from a national nationwideperspective, put this in
perspective for everyone, whatthis admission scandal was all
(19:20):
about.
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Well, in a nutshell, um, there was a guy in
California, and he wasorchestrating um through
coaches, administrators, um,ways to help kids be admitted to
school.
Um, we all know that that goeson in in various ways across the
(19:44):
country.
Kids get into school, you know,lots whether you're relatives
with someone that's on thelegislature, whatever, you know,
people have gotten into school.
Um I had done it one, I gotinvolved in it one time when we
were trying to raise money forthis facility.
It was a poor choice on my part,but I did present it to the
(20:04):
school.
Uh, I sat down with someone, Iexplained to them that this
young man would never playtennis at the University of
Texas.
I was desperate to raise$10million.
The father was well off and hecould help us.
And so they issued the nationalletter of intent, knowing that
this young man would not playtennis, that he was going to
(20:26):
become the basketball manager.
So he had to be vetted, he hadto go through a physical, he had
to do uh be signed off by theathletic director, he had to
meet with the compliance peopleone-on-one, he had to go through
everything.
So there was no secret to this.
Um, this young man then washired by the athletic
department, became thebasketball manager.
(20:46):
Shaka Smart was the new coach,and he's working.
And when you work as a studentathlete or student like that,
you are required to meet withcompliance every three months.
So there's a it's you don't justwalk in the door unknown and
just go through the system.
Everybody knows who you are,where you are, and they assign
(21:06):
him a specific room in JesterHall to live in.
So no one at that point had cometo me and said, How in the world
did this young man go from beinga basket tennis player to the
basketball manager?
Not one person, because the factof the matter is everybody knew
who he was.
So I'm sitting there in thiscell now, and I'm my mind is
(21:29):
racing.
I have no idea what's going on.
And the only thing I can thinkof is this this young man.
And I'm thinking, well, the onething I know for sure, the
University of Texas will standbehind me.
There's no doubt in my mind.
There's way too many signatures,way too much evidence.
They'll come out and they'llsay, We we know we were
(21:50):
involved, we helped this youngman get admitted, we accepted
money for not only for theuniversity, but through the
athletic department.
It totaled, I don't know,$600,000 to$700,000.
And this will start to go away.
Well, that didn't happen.
That didn't happen.
And immediately I realized whenI well, it started when I walked
(22:15):
outside the first day, and Idon't know if you were there,
but there were about 30 to 40,maybe 50 people screaming my
name, taking my picture.
I'd never seen anything like it.
And I was horrified.
One guy almost tripped andkilled himself chasing me to
take my picture, and I'm likereaching over, like, buddy, it's
not worth it.
Get up.
You know, I don't want you tohurt yourself over this.
(22:36):
And I remember saying to themedia that day, I said, Hey, I
don't really know everythingthat's going on here, but the
team plays tonight, and it'sgonna be a far more interesting
story to go watch the team playagainst rice tonight than
screaming my name and taking mypicture.
Well, I started to go home, andwhen I went home, in the next
few days, I started to realizethat this was a national story.
(22:58):
This wasn't about just me.
This was this had movie starsand all these people involved.
And and I'm still thinking,well, the university will, even
though they had fired meimmediately, they cannot not
eventually come out and say,hey, this is what happened, this
is how this happens.
Well, within two to three weeks,I have to go, and the prosecutor
(23:20):
says to me, you know, this iswhat we're gonna charge you
with.
And I said, Well, this is howthis happens.
These are this how these thingswork.
You understand that how thenational letter of intent works.
And he said, What's the nationalletter of intent?
I said, Well, it's only the mostimportant piece to this whole
story because that's the letterthat shows the documentation
with all the signatures thatthis is how this kids get
(23:42):
admitted to school.
And he he says, I said, Well,they knew.
And he said, No, they didn't.
Texas knew nothing.
I said, Of course they did.
It's not possible to be admittedwithout them knowing, it just
doesn't work that way.
Either you agree to what I sayhappened, or I'll I'll make sure
that we add charges on to youand and and I'll make sure you
(24:02):
go to jail for a long time.
And at that point, I just saiduh guilty, you know, within 24
hours because I I just didn'thave it in me.
I I couldn't fight that.
If they if they had no interestin the truth, zero.
And the university showed nointerest in defending me.
So what was I supposed to do atthat point?
(24:23):
I knew that I had not defraudedthem.
I knew I'd made a mistake, and Iowned up to my mistake, and I
told them my mistake, because Iaccepted some money well after
the fact, even though I I triedto give most of it away, that's
still wrong on my part.
But at that point, they're notthe school wasn't going to
defend me, and the and and thedepartment wanted they wanted
guilty convictions more thananything.
(24:46):
And even when we did this bookand we wrote it, the guy that
helped me called the prosecutingattorney.
And he asked him, he's like,Well, what tell me about that
conversation?
And he said, I don't rememberanything about that
conversation.
The only thing I knew is I had57 people and I wanted to get 57
guilty, please.
(25:06):
And that's the mindset that theyhad.
They were not looking for myside of the story or the truth
or what happened.
They wanted people to to sayguilty.
And once you say you're guilty,your rights essentially just
disappear.
And so that was the beginning ofmy story.
And now we're six years later,and I felt like I had a chance
(25:29):
to tell my side.
So that's why one of the reasonsI wrote the book.
Along with I wanted to show thatI'm not like here to point
fingers and say this is thisperson's fault or that person's
fault.
This is just the truth on howthese things happened, and this
is how you come back fromsomething when something doesn't
go well in your life, and that'sreally the intent of the book.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
You serve time in prison, and during that time,
shortly thereafter, during thatinitial phase, you have to watch
your team win the nationalchampionship.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
Well, that happened two months after this happened.
Just be well before I went toprison.
This happened right away.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
You couldn't really enjoy or celebrate your your
your guys, your team, becauseyou had this over your head.
You're you're dealing with it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:25):
That was one of the most joyous and painful days of
my life.
To watch a team win the nationalchampionship that that I had
coached and recruited, you know,that four seniors and two
juniors.
So I'd been with these guys forfive years.
Some I recruited longer thanthat, six years, win the
national championship and not bethere was without a doubt one of
(26:49):
the most painful experiences ofmy life.
I I cried like a little babythat night.
It was it was it was it was onESPN.
I watched the whole thing at theschool, basically told the
players to stay away from me.
They had they ended up having nocontact with me after they came
back.
They were that I was told theywere told to avoid me.
Uh it was beyond painful to gothrough that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
You had so many details, and people obviously
are learning about this, and youyou serve you're behind bars, a
different life that you neverwould have imagined, and yet you
come out on the other end andyou become an author of this
(27:35):
book right here, Breaking Serve,and a nice little better
close-up of it.
Alright, so here's the book thatwe're talking about.
Um perfect tennis net for andit's a it's a good description
from championship coach toprison and your journey back.
Now you're years into yourjourney back, and there's a you
(28:01):
I pulled out a few points fromthe book, and you you mentioned
it.
The operation varsity blues.
When we think of varsity blues,we think of the movie about high
school football in an imaginarytown in the state of Texas.
This was far from it.
Briefly talk about thisoperation from a detailed point
(28:22):
of view because it involved youand several other people.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
As far as what operation varsity blues exactly
was.
SPEAKER_02 (28:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:32):
Well, like I said, uh a little earlier, the the
this gentleman in California,this guy Rick Singer, was was
orchestrating um and working.
Some people were deeply involvedin doing this over and over and
over and and running it like abusiness.
There was a there was anadministrator at USC that was
deeply involved in in puringthese opportunities and and
(28:55):
being paid.
And so it was, and then therewere some operating.
I think Felicity Husman'sdaughter, they had someone take
the SAT, which I didn't evenknow was possible.
I I thought that that was apossibility.
I would have never even imaginedthat you could do something like
that.
So I didn't I didn't know any ofthese people.
We did it, I did it, gotinvolved because I needed money
(29:17):
for the tennis center.
Um, that was my only I I toldthe guy that this guy called me
that was in and out of thebasketball office all the time,
um, very close to the team, veryclose to one of the coaches.
And um he called me and I knewhim.
He'd been involved in tennis,and he just said, Hey, can you
help this guy get into school?
(29:37):
I said, Well, I mean, they haveto sign a letter of intent.
And uh, I don't know, but um youknow, we can you can we use this
as a fundraising opportunity forfor tennis?
And and he said, Yeah.
And so I said, I don't want toget in trouble, I don't want to
do anything wrong.
I've never been in trouble.
And he's like, Oh no, this isfine.
You don't worry about this.
(29:58):
Well, uh That wasn't very goodadvice.
So um I I shouldn't have gotteninvolved.
I did, but that was the premiseof it.
Uh people were getting admittedto school, being placed on
teams.
Now the difference between a lotof these schools, most of these
schools, they were all private,uh UFC, Georgetown, Yale,
whatnot, where you would getcoded as a as a student athlete,
(30:21):
but you didn't have to sign afinancial aid agreement which
was attached to a nationalletter of intent.
So people could go in, they'd becoded, and then they would just
kind of disappear.
I think that's what LoriLaughlin's kids did.
I don't know the exact details,but at Texas, it was just
different.
And that's why I'm like, well,our system was different.
You have to sign a nationalletter of intent, the same as
(30:42):
Vince Young or Colt McCoy wouldsign that same piece of paper,
this young man signed it.
So everybody knows who you are.
You do not walk in to school atthe University of Texas a
student athlete in any shape orform without everybody knowing
who you are.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
And so even a walk-on.
SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
Well, this isn't even a walk-on because with when
you sign a national letter ofintent, there has to be a
financial aid component.
So he had a book scholarship, sothat was worth about$400.
So everybody, whether you're afull see in tennis, we had we
were equivalency sport.
Some sports were headcountsports like men's basketball or
football, where you just get afull.
(31:20):
In tennis, we divided it up.
So this was a common scholarshipfor a tennis player, but
everybody had to sign that to beadmitted to be on our team.
And uh that's just the way itworked.
And so they had to go throughthe same process that, like I
said, uh a star football playerwould have to go through.
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
So I wasn't trying to hide this from them.
Um, it was made very clear tothem.
And and then they called me backa couple of years later, and I
said, No, I don't need to engagewith this.
We're we're gonna get our tenniscenter, I knew at this point.
And and I thought I'd neverspeak to them again until they
called me one day.
I was getting on an airplane,just kind of set me up, and the
(32:04):
FBI and and was listening, and Iguess they felt like they had
enough information just off thisone phone call because they knew
absolutely nothing about me,nothing about the university,
nothing about tennis.
Um, and that's all they needed,and and that's when it uh they
decided to rest me.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
You another part of your book, um it's called The
Ten Months of Uncertainty.
One can only who has not readthe book would can only imagine
that's your life not in the freeworld behind bars.
How do you sum up?
What did you learn maybe duringthat 10 month period?
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
That well, the 10 months was prior to serving a
six-month sentence.
So what happens is I actuallywent and I was I was uh I pled
guilty at the end of of uhApril, I believe, and I was told
that my sentencing would be inOctober.
(33:11):
Well, then they said no, youhave to wait till February.
So then all my family,everybody's gonna go with me on
February 4th.
Then you'll get an email maybe atwo days before saying, nope, we
want you to come February 24th.
You have no control overanything in your life.
It's so amazing that they cantreat a person like this.
(33:33):
But so all your tickets,everything that you've done has
to be changed.
And then and they don't have togive you any notice or any even
explanation.
So all of a sudden, I'm finallyget there on February 24th and
I'm sentenced to six months,which I'm supposed to then
report on April the 6th, 2020.
(33:55):
Well, we all know what happenedin March of 2020, COVID hit the
world, and and the United Statesshut down essentially in the
middle of March of 2020.
So now I'm reporting.
They have no protocol, theydon't know what to do, they
don't know how to handle this.
So to quarantine you, they putme in a medium security cell,
(34:21):
which is like a true prison cellwhere they shut the door and
you're in a 10 by 10 cell whereyou know you're you're isolated,
that they said was for COVIDreasons.
Well, the first 48 hours theyput me on suicide watch for no
apparent reason, in my opinion.
They said, You look nervous.
I said, Yeah, I'm nervous.
(34:41):
I've never never thought I'd begoing to prison.
And they they embarrass you,they they dehumanize you, they
have you take your clothes off,they turn the lights on for 48
hours, they you the airconditioning was off.
I'm sweating like a like I'venever sweat in my life.
And then they put me in anotherplace for 12 days before I put
(35:03):
in this camp, which is like amini minimum security place.
Well, then COVID ravaged theentire place.
We everyone caught COVID.
We're all trapped in a roomtogether.
For 42 days, I didn't walkoutside.
Uh, I'm just indoors with peoplewho are coughing and wheezing
and and sick.
(35:23):
And um so it was quite anexperience there for four and a
half months before I was sent towhat they call a halfway house
where they're supposed to helpme reintegrate into society.
I asked them why I am here.
I don't really need this at thispoint.
Uh, I just got out of COVID.
Now you're putting me into a newpopulation.
And basically they said, Tough,you we make money off you by
(35:48):
having your body in this bed.
Wow.
Wow.
You're gonna stay here so thatwe can get paid by the
government to have this bedfilled.
So finally I got home.
I had two weeks with this anklemonitor, and but I couldn't
leave the the region for a yearwithout permission.
My father got very sick andended up passing away about
(36:14):
three months after I was home.
And um, so it was a prettytraumatic period in my life, to
say the least.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
You and I were talking about therapy, and I
can't imagine uh how impactfulthat has been for you to
transition back because you uhyou and I uh were talking about
it.
I've been uh in therapy myselfuh for the better part of this
year.
Um that has that been somethingthat has helped you through
(36:43):
this?
SPEAKER_00 (36:45):
I did go to therapy.
Um I I I met uh several timeswith with one guy, I met with
another person as well.
I I I'm I'm a big believer thattherapy can help a lot of people
in this world, and there's noshame in getting therapy.
Um, I've gotten a lot of helpfrom my friends in my family.
(37:05):
I've been very fortunate thathave a lot of people stand
behind me throughout thisprocess.
Um, and so I I've used therapy,but I I've also leaned on on
some really good friends in myin my family, my wife and my
children, and my mother and myaunt and my brother uh have all
been incredible supporters.
(37:26):
So I'm a lucky guy.
I mean, this story is kind ofamazing when I when I retell it,
but I'm a very fortunate personand that I have such a strong
support system that that stoodwith me throughout all this.
SPEAKER_01 (37:39):
Now that's amazing, and that's true for everybody.
And I, you know, I think we alllive for you see a story like
this, let's just say this is notyou, you weren't involved, and
you read this book.
Um, people walk away, you know.
We I think we're all seekers toan extent.
We and that's one of the reasonswe read books like this, because
(38:01):
it's relatable to an extent.
And what you went through, I Iwish that upon nobody.
SPEAKER_00 (38:09):
But I don't I don't wish that on anyone, my worst
enemy.
I I I am not into redemption,and and and as far I mean as far
as being vindictive towardssomeone is the word I wanted to
use.
I don't think this helped me, Idon't think this would help
anyone go through something likethis.
It was it was unnecessary, butit happened, and that's the way
life is.
Sometimes things happen thatthat are out of your control.
(38:33):
But there's this book waswritten, not to to point fingers
or to say, woe is me, but thisbook was written to say, this is
how I recovered.
These are the things that Ichose to do, to to coach myself
through these moments and uh andcome out on the other side.
And and the the most amazingpiece to this is so many people
(38:56):
have responded in a way ofsaying, Thank you.
I'm going through a difficulttime in my life.
Reading your book has inspiredme to make me believe that I can
do it.
And that's been the neat partabout this book.
SPEAKER_01 (39:09):
Inspiring people you would never think that you would
reach.
Exactly.
I'm gonna read, I'm gonna readsomething from the goat of
college swimming.
Okay, um the very back of yourbook, Eddie Reese, um, who has
built the I I mean, I hate touse the word unbeatable or
(39:32):
untouchable program that is UTswimming and diving.
The GOAT Eddie Reese.
For those who are maybe watchingother parts of the country or
don't know swimming very well,UT head swimming coach, um,
15-time NCAA champion,three-time U.S.
Olympic head coach.
(39:54):
This is what he had to say aboutyou, and it's written right here
on the back of your book.
Michael Center is a very goodcoach and an even better person.
He always takes the time to takecare of people.
He's gone through a very toughtime.
The penalty he paid wasdifficult to accept, and the
recovery was more difficult.
(40:15):
Recovery was possible, as yousaid, with the great support
from family and friends andrelying on his personal values.
He is a special person.
You didn't ask him to say that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Yeah, Eddie, Eddie was uh an incredible mentor of
mine at Texas.
Uh, when I really needed help, Iwould go and see Eddie.
Uh, I would sit in his office,ask him questions, whether it's
how to coach the team, how totrain the team, what he thought
about things, uh, about life.
(40:52):
And we always had a little dealthat when he won the national
championship, I would buy him asubway sandwich.
But, you know, so I had to buy alot of subway sandwiches during
my my time at Texas.
But I think we forged a reallyneat relationship.
Um, I looked up to him and uh Iasked him to write something on
(41:12):
my behalf, and you know, he cameup with it.
And you know, to have Eddie onthe back and DeLoss in there in
the in the in the in the bookreally meant a lot to me.
Um they were just two incrediblepeople during my career that
just meant a lot to me and did alot for me, and I learned a lot
(41:34):
from both of them.
So yeah, that was that wasfantastic to have Eddie to have
Eddie do that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:40):
And he he's such a character and an even high
quality person, as well as DeLost Dodds is as well.
Um, you get to if you get thebook, you'll understand more
about him and and center'scoaching pillars, which leads us
to this.
We uh I think you need a booksigning.
And do you have any in Austinbooked yet?
(42:02):
Pun intended.
SPEAKER_00 (42:04):
I don't have a book signing at this point.
I um I'm doing one this weekendat TCU, and we're uh we're gonna
have a book signing on Saturdaymorning, and then I'm gonna give
a clinic, a tennis clinic tofollow.
So it should be a fun day.
I know you and I are neighbors.
We live in the same neighborhoodin in Austin, so I know that you
(42:26):
like to hang out at theboulevard, so I'm gonna put it
on you.
Oh spread room.
If we can get one set up there,because I did have someone ask
if we could do a book signing inAustin.
And um, so that that's uh that'sthat's a project I'm gonna put
on you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
Let's work on that.
And because the bully is also asponsor of this podcast.
Uh their partners, uh, you know,they they do a great job, and
they're one of the last fewremaining Austin OG, um, holes
in the wall, but a great place,and you know, it's a good place.
(43:01):
You you you everyone knows yourname, but we will work on that.
All right, the uh man cavestory.
Mac Brown had a great one.
You have to go back to hisepisode to listen to it.
(43:24):
Uh, it was absolutely hilarious.
But Mac has such a great memoryand know remembers everybody's
names that he even met whenprobably when he was three years
old, he remembers everybody.
But uh Man Cave story consistsof anything that's as comical
today as it was when ithappened.
(43:46):
Is there anything tennis relatedduring your coaching days, maybe
during a match, or anything thathappened with any of your teams
or players that would be ManCave story worthy?
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Uh had had many of them, had many of them.
Um one time we were playing, andmy good friend, he was a
longtime coach at USC.
We were we were I was at theUniversity of Kansas and he was
at Fresno State, and we both hadgood teams that year.
We were both in the top 10 inthe country, and we were playing
(44:21):
a match in Lawrence, Kansas, andwe were playing on these very
fast indoor courts, and theball, there were two or three
dead spots on a few of thecourts, and obviously I knew
where they were, and I knewthere was a critical point, and
I would always wear a suit, acoat and tie.
I was a young coach, I wouldonly wear a suit and tie to
(44:41):
night matches indoors.
Get all dressed up.
I thought I was a basketballcoach or something back in the
day.
And the guy hits a criticalpoint.
I think it's in a tiebreaker inthe third set with the match on
the line.
It hits that dead spot, it kindof dies, but it's in.
It's clearly in.
I know that spot.
I know the ball is in.
The umpire is sitting there.
(45:02):
I love this guy.
We're still friends.
He sent me a note the other day,but he's kind of eating some
popcorn as he's sitting overthere on the sideline, on the
side of the court uh doing thematch.
And he says, the guy calls itout, and the umpire says, Yeah,
the ball's out.
And I mean, I lost it that day.
I started throwing my jacket,tearing my tie off, screaming at
(45:22):
the top of my lungs.
I had a little more juice inthose days, but uh yeah, I had a
few stories like that in myyouth when I started coaching
and we ended up losing seven,six, and a third.
That was a critical point.
And I talked to the kid likeeight years later, and I said,
What did you think?
He said, Oh, yeah, that ball wasgood.
It was good.
I'm like, Oh, thanks for tellingme now.
(45:45):
So uh, but that's the way itworks in college tennis.
You call your own lines and thenyou have to have the umpire
overrule it if you disagree.
But yeah, I had a few funnystories along the way.
But it was it was a lot of fun.
I had a great, great timecoaching.
I I missed coaching.
I love the kids.
I loved, I loved a lot of it.
I know it's changed a lot sinceI I last did it.
We didn't have NIL and some ofthe things that they're deal
(46:07):
dealing with today, but but Ihad a lot of fun.
I I I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01 (46:11):
That's a great story.
We'll have to find it, try tofind a way to dig up that uh an
old photo of you coaching tennisin a full-on suit.
SPEAKER_00 (46:21):
I can't, that's how I would do it.
I would get all dressed up and Iwould, you know, walk in.
I like I, you know, it whenLarry Brown was the coach at
Kansas, you know, he was likePat Riley and Larry Brown were
the two guys that were the bestdressed coaches.
SPEAKER_01 (46:36):
They were hands down.
Hands down.
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
These guys, when they walked on the court,
everybody not only wanted towatch their team, but they
wanted to see what they werewearing that night.
And so I'm like, all right, I'mgonna be like Larry Brown.
I'm gonna wear a yeah, I'm gonnaget some a nice suit or a couple
nice suits and some ties, andand uh I'm gonna go out on the
court and and look like I knowwhat I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01 (46:57):
Well, it worked for you.
SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
We won a few, but it was it was pretty funny that
that that's how we used to doit.
SPEAKER_01 (47:03):
That's a great man cave story, Michael Sinner.
We're gonna take a very quickbreak and we're gonna do, we're
gonna end another episode ofStories Inside the Man Cave the
way we like to, and that is withpositivity.
We'll see you on the other sideof this break.
unknown (47:19):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (47:21):
The Saxton name resonates in Austin.
Jim's late father, James Saxton,is a Longhorn legend, a Heisman
finalist while playing for DarylK.
Royal.
And Jimmy is a UT footballlegacy from Westlake.
He has been insuring Austin fordecades.
He and his staff will give youold school hospitality when
(47:41):
servicing your insurance needs.
(48:05):
Michael Center, long term tenniscoach, and now an author.
Breaking serve.
Gotta get your it's prettysimple.
I got mine.
Just so everyone knows, he didnot give me a copy.
I voluntarily purchased onAmazon because I like to support
authors.
Thank you.
(48:25):
I appreciate that.
You're more than welcome.
It's a good read.
Once you get into it, it can'tstop.
I just have not had a chance totruly finish it.
And if we're gonna be honest, itis uh 131 pages, and it ends
with your final thought, and Idon't want to ruin that for
anybody.
(48:46):
But we love positivity in aworld that appears or feels as
if there's a lot of negativity.
Tell me something good, mybrother.
SPEAKER_00 (48:58):
Tell you something good, you know.
I think you know, people talkabout this all the time, but but
having gratitude, and I I'm I'mso good right now.
I I'm spending time on thecourt, I'm helping kids, I'm
talking about this book.
People have loved the book.
It's been so exciting to see thethe commentary and the
(49:21):
testimonials.
I think we I saw today we've had26 reviews on on Amazon, and
they've all been five-star.
And uh so it's been anincredibly therapeutic.
You talk about therapy, this hasbeen therapeutic for me to see
people respond to this book insuch a positive way.
And so, you know, I I look at itlike my life got got turned
(49:42):
upside down, but at the end ofthe day, I'm a really lucky guy,
and and this project has made meeven feel luckier.
And and like I said, I've got agreat family, I've got great
friends.
So, you know, if anybody's gonethrough anything, and my feeling
is adversity finds us all, it'sgonna find you.
So if you've had adversity inyour life, whether you're a
tennis player or not, I thinkthis book can help you.
(50:05):
And the the the one of the bestcommentaries I got was, I'm
gonna use your five pillars inmy everyday life to help me get
through life.
And I'm like, wow, that waspretty powerful.
So um, that's my sense ofpositivity.
I'm lucky.
This book has been a blessing tome, and uh, I hope you guys uh
(50:26):
people go out and get it andenjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (50:28):
And we're gonna keep promoting it.
And I really what's good for meis for you to be so transparent
and uh talk about this entirestory in its entirety and to
really paint the picture of whatyou had to endure, and to be
(50:49):
honest with you, all of ourlives can be uh abruptly
interrupted, and we don't knowthe answer why sometimes, but I
I'm inspired by your mentalfortitude and for you to give
back after something like that.
Get yourself a copy of BreakingServe.
I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00 (51:09):
Yeah, I just like to say one thing.
I have a website calledbreakingserve.com.
You can get the book there aswell, as well as on Amazon.
And I'm doing some publicspeaking.
So if you're interested in in mecoming to speak to your team or
your organization, you can justsend me an email through the
website.
And I'm doing more and morespeaking now.
Um, and hopefully we'll get thisuh book signing set up and and
(51:31):
I'll come to Austin.
And I'm in Fort Worth right nowa lot doing some work, but but
I'm at back and forth, and we'llwe'll do a book signing there.
That'd be fun.
SPEAKER_01 (51:39):
We got to get it set up at the legendary we call it
the bully, the boulevard bar andgrill in Far West Boulevard in
Austin.
We'll we're gonna take care ofthat, and I guarantee you we're
gonna get that set up.
Michael Center, appreciate you,brother.
Thank you.
Okay, you have a great night.
Thank you.
Anytime we can talk about peoplethat comes from uh adverse
situations and overcoming that,uh, such as Michael Center's
(52:03):
story.
You know what?
It's always good to talk aboutit.
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