Stories Lived. Stories Told.
The purpose of Coordinated Management of Meaning is to create better social worlds through better communication. This podcast is about empowering all of us in our communication to see ourselves as curious and active participants with the ability to create meaningful change in our relationships and social worlds. Our practice of CMM is about embodying a “communication perspective,” which asks us to “look at communication, rather than through it.” To take a communication perspective is to consider what we’re making and how we’re making it through our communication practices. This means we look at patterns, contexts, stories, and relationships; and that we use curiosity, mindfulness, collaboration, and dialogue to create better social worlds for ourselves. So, join us as we take CMM from theory to practice, engage in collective learning together, and apply a communication perspective to make meaning in our conversations.
Episodes
How can you be proactive in your inclusivity?
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Today, Abbie, Jamie, and Celia explore disability through the lens of a communication perspective, talking about transforming exclusion into inclusion in every space, changing narratives to focus on "the problem" as an inaccessible society rather than any one disabled individual, unlearning our internalized ableism as a necessary step for all of us, becoming proactive rather...
What makes you a designer?
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Today, Abbie, Claudia, and Chris explore radical changes in learning around systems thinking and design over time, along with the implications for future designers, which includes all of us. This conversation was recorded in front of a live audience as part of the RSDX Online Festival on Sunday, October 5, 2025. Join the RSDX Zoom Event here to watch the recording of Claudia and Chris' presentatio...
In what ways are you a designer?
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Today, Abbie, Hannah, and Mathilda explore the dissonance between prioritizing the present and/ or the future; the discomfort (and opportunity for learning) that comes with awkward spaces; the power of storytelling for expanding our imagination; and the importance of designing with emergence in mind.
This conversation was recorded in front of a live audience as part of the RSDX Online Festival on ...
Welcome to the RSD14 Participant Podcast!
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Today, Abbie is joined by the participants of the Relating Systems Thinking and Design (RSD14) Conference in Toronto to reflect on their own experiences of both the online and in-person conference, the stories and contexts around design that they bring with them, and the conversations they are a part of and what they hope is next for this community. In this episode, you will hear from 13 ...
In what ways are you an artist?
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Today, Abbie, Annie, and Dorianne discuss ‘The Art of Collaboration: Chamber Music Rehearsal Techniques and Team Building,’ Annie and Dorianne’s new book that introduces themes of co-leadership and empathy which are relevant for all small group communication. Particularly, Abbie, Annie, and Dorianne talk about ‘We Presence,’ LBAD (Live, Breath, and Die), and “trying out everyone’s ideas as if they ...
What does it look like to connect everyday interactions to broader social dynamics? To use our knowledge of interpersonal communication to create the kinds of organizations, communities, and systems we want to make?
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Today, Abbie and Kate talk about a relational approach to disorganizing systemic violence in organizations, exploring themes from Kate’s new book Transforming Trauma to discuss different ways of knowing (and not knowi...
How do we embrace the unknowability of being alive?
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Today, Abbie and Lois explore social therapeutics and performance activism as avenues for “performing beyond ourselves,” embracing life as play (and play as life), and creating stages- not of development- but, for development.
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As director of the East Side Institute, the research and education center for social therapeutics and performance activism, Lois Holzman has broadened ...
What CMMish tools help us to end a conversation in a different place than where we started?
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Today, Abbie and Laura explore the stories of Laura’s evolving approach to therapy, including the introduction of paradox and counterparadox developed by the Milan Center; the adoption of a more strategic approach to communication from a pragmatic perspective; the shift in seeing the therapist as both observer and participant; and the cent...
How do games like Dungeons and Dragons enable us to practice a CMM-informed way of relating, participating, and communicating?
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Today, Abbie and Tom explore Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) as a powerful practice and metaphor for developing more relational, emergent, and collaborative ways of being and leading, touching on the value of experiential learning in scenarios our brains will remember as real; the need (both in game and o...
Who isn't being invited to the conversation?
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Today, Abbie and Mil explore ways to create “grains of empowerment” that enable every individual to participate in community-based solutions to our global problems, beginning with each of us asking the question “who is missing?” in every space we enter; systematically inviting people with differing perspective, identities, and experiences to the table; and naming the invisible pat...
How do we create better social worlds at the intersection of mindfulness, innovation, and complexity?
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Today, Abbie and Mattia consider the responsibility humans have to mindfully engage with tools like artificial intelligence by prioritizing our own imagination; the lessons we can learn from experiences of uncertainty and ambiguity; the need for us to practice thinking in an agile way as we look to the future; and the role we hav...
How can we learn to see more of our expectations and assumptions?
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Today, Abbie and Rachel are two 'embodied minds' exploring the neurobiology of sensemaking, including our brains being more prediction than reaction, the controlled illusion of acting out of our expectations, the 'felt sense' we experience that encodes all information about priors, and the perception practice that allows us to check our assumpti...
How do we understand the complexity of who we are and who we are becoming?
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Today, Abbie and Celiane use social construction as a framework to explore forming futures, intent v. impact, "good" design, and sustainability transitions.
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Celiane Camargo-Borges is an intercultural explorer, researcher, and facilitator with a passion for fostering collaboration across diverse communities. Born and raised in Brazil, she embarked...
What changes when you begin to recognize, name, and move through your icy blue, fiery orange, and calm green areas?
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Martie van der Reijden and Evelien van den Kerkhof are both Orthopedagogue Generalist / child and youth therapist and EMDR Europe Practitioners. They have been working together for years in their independent practice in Voorschoten (the Netherlands) and have a lot of experience in treating children, adolescents and ...
How can you speak in a way that allows others to hear you? And listen in a way that allows others to speak?
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Deb Nathan is a licensed art therapist and psychotherapist with extensive experience as an educator, artist, therapist and supervisor. In 2008, Deb founded Artsbridge, Inc. – an organization that utilizes a unique methodology to bring together teens from communities in conflict. Artsbridge has primarily focused on Isra...
What are responsible ways of engaging with ambitions around change?
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Karina Solsø is a self-employed organizational psychologist, who works part-time at the Doctor of Management Programme at University of Hertfordshire, where she supervises Ph.D. students researching complexity in organizations. She also works as an external lecturer at Aalborg University supervising students doing a masters degree. Except from the work at univer...
How are we generating possibilities in every moment?
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Rana Kökçinar is a Systemic Psychotherapist and Family Therapist working on unceded Kaurna Land, South Australia.
Anokh Goodman is a Systemic Psychotherapist, Clinical Lead and Training Consultant with Sikh heritage and a working-class background, living in Leeds, North England. Passionate about relationships, narratives, social justice, poetry, and spoken word, he bri...
Is your communication relationship-enhancing or relationship-destroying?
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Dr. Whitney is a global social entrepreneur. She is the founder of Corporation for Positive Change, a global consulting cooperative; co-founder of the Taos Institute, an international think tank dedicated to relational processes in business, education, families and communities; and a founding advisor to the United Religions Initiative, a global net...
How do we create conversations in the world that make us feel inspired?
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Pedro Martins, Ph.D., is a Brazilian psychologist. He obtained his Doctoral and Master’s degree at the University of São Paulo. He is interested in the practice of therapy as social construction in different contexts, and his main goal is to create generative conversational resources that bridge academic and practical knowledge. He works as a clinical psychol...
What agency can you identify in the systems you are in? And how can you use it to invite others to design with intention together?
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Josina Vink is a designer and researcher with expertise in health system transformation. They have extensive experience leading and facilitating participatory system and service design processes in health care, government, non-profit and community settings. Josina has worked as a service and systemic...
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