July 3, 2024 • 34 mins
Have you ever wanted or needed to change your life and wondered how to do it? Well, this interview may be for you.
On this episode, I'm excited to share my conversation with Elisabeth Sharp McKetta. Author of 13 books, Liz teaches writing for Harvard and Oxford and is the founder of the Book Year Writer's Circle.
McKetta's latest book is entitled Edit your Life: A Handbook for Living with Intention in a Messy World. Elisabeth knows about what she writes. During our interview, she shares the story of her own major life edit.
You can find out more information about Liz, on her website.
Key Takeaways:
- Intentional Living: Elisabeth emphasizes the importance of living with intentionality. Much like editing in writing clarifies and refines, intentional living helps us clarify our priorities and align our actions accordingly.
- The Power of Editing: Drawing from her background as a writer and teacher, Elisabeth discusses how editing principles can be applied to life.
- Elisabeth's Journey: Elisabeth shares her personal journey of undergoing a significant life edit. This experience forms the core of her insights into navigating change and making intentional choices.
- Her book, Edit Your Life: A Handbook for Living with Intention in a Messy World. The framework is examine, edit and enjoy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Judy Oskam (00:02):
Have you ever wanted or needed to change your life
and wondered how to do it?
Well, this interview may be foryou.
Welcome to Stories of Changeand Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam.
On this episode, I'm excited toshare my conversation with
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta.
She is the author of 13 books.
(00:23):
She teaches writing for Harvardand Oxford and is the founder
of the Book Year Writer's Circle.
She wrote the book Edit yourLife: A Handbook for Living with
Intention in a Messy World.
and as a former journalistturned university professor, I
know about editing.
When I worked as a reporter intelevision news, I edited copy
(00:46):
and video.
As a teacher, now I helpstudents edit their work.
The process of editing makeseverything clear and
understandable, and editing canalso apply to life.
Elizabeth knows about what shewrites.
During our interview, sheshares the story of her own
(01:06):
major life edit.
I think you'll find itinteresting.
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (01:13):
I got into writing as a kid.
Both of my parents were, andare, big readers.
Also, there are a lot ofeducators in my family, so I
think the idea of having lots ofinteresting books around that
led to interesting discussionswas just part of the sort of the
culture that I grew up in,which was really lovely kids in
(01:45):
the way that all kids docreative things.
I've got two children now whospend weekends making cardboard
apartments for their stuffedanimals and writing poems and
stuff like that Very creativekids.
And then as I grew up, I justdidn't grow out of writing and I
think part of it was that itwas a place to process the very
matter of this podcast.
Place to process the verymatter of this podcast, the my
(02:09):
wishes for my life, the changesthat I was feeling in myself as
a young person.
So writing was just a safeplace to kind of rest on the
page and put all that stuff outthere.
So I was a big journal keeperand then when I went to college
I had this incredible I'm goingto call it an initiation.
I was an undergrad at Harvardand applied as a sophomore to
every single creative writingclass that they offered which
(02:33):
was eight at the time and gotrejected from every single
creative writing class that theyoffered Every single one and
each one.
This was the days when they allhad specific essays that you had
to write for each one.
So one of them I wrote.
I remember having to write ashort story about a train.
I mean, I worked so hard to getinto these classes, didn't get
into any of them and waswondering how I will ever
(02:53):
improve my writing without ateacher.
When my wonderful collegeroommate, who's a neurologist
and still one of my best friends, was at the time, um, working
in as a receptionist in um forwhat used to be Radcliffe
College, now is RadcliffeInstitute of Study, and she
brought back an ad for acommunity education writing
(03:16):
class on right on on journal, onkeeping a journal colon weaving
your autobiography.
And she brought it back andsaid Liz, you might apply for
this.
They might take you.
And so I put together myapplication and sent it in and
got accepted and walked to myfirst day of class at age 19 and
(03:37):
went into the you know thebowels of this long building,
with you know, room after room,door after door, one of those
academic buildings that you'revery familiar with and I walked
to the you know the room numberand walked in and there were
about 20 very old women sittingaround the table and I looked at
(04:00):
all of them and they looked atme and I gave an apologetic wave
and thought clearly I'm in thewrong room.
And then I checked the numberagain and this was my class.
And they were so surprised tosee me because I was 19.
And I was welcomed in and wrotewith this group of women for
the next four years until ourinstructor died at age 101.
Judy Oskam (04:21):
Wow.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (04:22):
I know, About a week before Bush's
second election, which she wouldhave thought was very something
was very good timing.
She was very political, was acommunist, had four husbands
that she outlived reallyinteresting teacher, and most of
the writers were in their 70s,80s and 90s and they just took
me in and were so generous intrusting me with their stories.
(04:43):
So that was the place where Iwent from being a private writer
, journal keeper, scribbler ofpoems in tea shops, to someone
who every Tuesday had an essaydue to a very rigorous reader
who corrected you know, whowould not let us use passive
verbs, and he was trained in NewYork or New York Times style
editing and was just very fierceabout the kind of writer she
(05:06):
wanted her students to be.
So it was incredible disciplineof four years of these Tuesday
assignments and during that timeI wrote, I finished two memoirs
, which was kind of amazingconsidering all the things that
I was so young but it justwasn't really.
I found my pack and they becamemy girlfriends and now, by this
point, I've outlived all of them, which is so strange, but they
(05:26):
were my elders and I realizedmore and more how much of a gift
they gave me by taking me andtaking me seriously and helping
me, really showing me somethingthat I again.
The layers of the meaning ofthis come, you know, have come
later, but we were, even thoughthe specifics of our lives were
so different.
I was writing about my collegeboyfriend and about, you know,
(05:48):
sort of rowdy college weekendsand they were writing about
making normal aid and you knowdifficult conversations with
their children and.
But at the end of the day therewere these, what I now think of
as the birth, love and deathcycle.
You know we were all writingabout, you know, beginnings and
excitement and connection andthe complications that come with
(06:09):
it, and endings and the griefand these birth, love, death
cycles that I now think of asthe only, really the only three
stories were reflected in all ofour story.
We're all writing, you know thebig things of life, even with
individual details.
So I think that was one of the.
So that was, I think, one ofthe.
That was what made me amemoirist, for sure.
And on the side and I didn'trealize how these would
(06:31):
intersect I had an incredibleteacher it always comes back to
the teachers who was a fair isalive, still is a dear friend,
still is a fairy tale scholar,who was Maria Tatar, and so I
was taking classes.
I did get accepted into herclass, so I studied fairy tales
with her at Harvard and thenstudied memoir with Hope Hale
Davis, the memoir teacher, andso these two sort of seeds of
(06:52):
storytelling intersected andhave continued to.
Just, I don't know thisbeanstalk of these genres have
been a part of my writing eversince.
Judy Oskam (07:00):
So I think fairy tale.
Oh, that's wild.
And now don't you teach a classin?
In memoir writing.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (07:06):
I feel like I was born to teach this
class.
I teach a class called mythicmemoir that I designed for
Harvard a few years ago, and thestuff that comes out of it is
incredible.
Judy Oskam (07:14):
So you actually combine both of those areas oh,
I love that.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (07:19):
It's so much fun and I feel that's.
That's one of the books in myfiles, one for one day, and
there are too many of thosebooks, but one on mythic memoir
just a little sort of tiny,little slender textbook on this,
because it's such a wonderfulway to think about these epic
stories that all of our livesare and these highly specific
details that are as unique asour fingerprints, and what
(07:41):
happens when we find them.
It's so cool.
Judy Oskam (07:43):
Well, and and you've , you've kind of gone through
your own path and your ownjourney in how you came to a new
place, and that's where thebook edit your life comes in.
So talk about what you decidedto do as a family, and that's
pretty, pretty bold and prettycourageous, I think.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (08:04):
It was a wonderful um.
It was, it was bold, it wascourageous and it was it was
funny to think about it that wemoved from for for listeners, um
, the.
The book that we're referringto is called edit your life, and
it's um stemmed from a Ted talkI did, which was based on an
experience my family and I hadin 2017, moving from a big
(08:28):
American house to a 275 squarefoot, though we made it a little
bigger, we added on a tiny kidsroom, tiny backyard guest house
so that we could just have asimpler life, distilled to the
things that we really enjoyed,which were hanging out with our
kids, doing hikes, reading, youknow, working, going on
(08:50):
adventures you know the stuffthat wasn't.
You know, taking on weird sidehustle jobs to pay for expensive
repairs.
You know cleaning you know allthe things that sort of come
with being the staff of the bighouse.
So it was a decision that wascompletely practical in terms of
just time and money, which, youknow, new parents know, there's
never enough of no, no, never,ever, ever.
Judy Oskam (09:12):
Older parents know that too Exactly.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (09:14):
Never enough, never enough.
So it felt like this wonderfuldecision that we went from.
You know, we had athree-year-old and a
six-year-old and um, two parentswho worked at home very
completely so that we couldspend time as equal parents with
our kids.
You know, we didn't want tosort of feel that only one of us
was a capable parent or thatone of us sort of got to know
(09:36):
them as babies.
We really wanted to do ittogether and we and we have um,
and so we yes, we went fromscarcity mode, which I now see
was really heavy and chaotic andstressful and hard on my
relationship with myself, hardon my ability to write, hard on
my marriage, hard on my abilityto be a present parent.
(10:03):
It was hard on everything justbecause we were sort of running,
you know, we didn't have enoughtime and money.
It's always stressful toovernight abundance mode and I
know it sounds ridiculous andsimplistic, but just the single
choice of having no livingexpenses, essentially, you know,
no housing expenses.
Judy Oskam (10:19):
After working so hard to earn them.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (10:22):
Exactly , it freed us up immensely.
It was just, it was anincredible overnight change to
just looking around.
I remember the spaciousness ofthe first day when we took the
kids to school and sort oflooked around and made avocado
toast and we're sort of waitingfor the sort of crazy frenzy of
like we need to do all thesethings Instead.
We just kind of we didn't, youknow, I think we went for a walk
(10:43):
and we took the dog.
We just kind of we didn't, youknow, I think we went for a walk
and we took the dog.
I mean, it was just this, youknow that feeling of
spaciousness when you come intoa new room or to a new city and
you just feel like you canexhale.
It was like that and it wasjust you found your life again.
Judy Oskam (10:54):
Then really you actually found the name of your
book.
The entire name of your book isedit your life a handbook for
living with intention and amessy world, a Handbook for
Living with Intention in a MessyWorld.
I love that title because theolder I get, the messier I think
the world is, isn't?
That true it's just messy and Ilove the focus on intention.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (11:16):
Yes, thank you.
Judy Oskam (11:18):
Thank you so much.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (11:19):
It's important, and I think it's, and
I think about that and this isa bit of a sidetrack, but I
turned 45 next week.
Know, the first half of myadult life I was spent gathering
(11:42):
, you know, gathering practicalthings like a decent blender.
But also, you know, the thingthat was most important to me
was wisdom.
Just trying to figure out, like, what do I need to know in
terms of, um, both, you know howto, how to work, how to write,
but also things like how to howto eat, how to exercise.
You know a lot of your tinyhabits, just sort of figuring
out those and then doing themlong enough to accept them, not
(12:05):
fight them.
It just feels like so much ofthe last 20 years has just been
building, building wisdom,building relationship with self,
and now I feel that, um, I feelheavy with it and on one hand,
I feel like I have, you know,wonderful habits and I can trust
myself to ride and I can trustmyself to be a good friend and
all of these things.
And I'm now looking at the nextyou know, 20 years and thinking
I think there's a lovely, afurther shedding, not of
(12:28):
physical things.
I feel that was part of whatthe last 20 years have been
realizing that I don't need thatmany.
Judy Oskam (12:33):
I don't need a big house, I only need one water
bottle.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (12:36):
But I think that there's going to be
some further simplifying interms of just sort of what I
need emotionally and in terms ofwisdom to carry me through.
Judy Oskam (12:45):
I don't know, yeah Well and I'm 20 years older than
you, so I can tell you that itdoes change and you do.
It's like the first time youhave a child.
I think your perspective isjust totally different, totally
different, and my husband and Iadopted our kids and it's the
(13:07):
same to me, is the same, butyour perspective of the world
changes and so your role in italso changes as well.
So I think that's part of it isthat when you're looking at and
I love the way in the book youyou looked at the you know sort
of I don't know if you'd call ita process, a three-step process
(13:28):
, where you do like examine,edit and enjoy.
Can you talk about that forpeople listening who say what
does she mean by edit my life,edit your life?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (13:37):
With life editing and with edit your
life.
It's um, I, I lead readersthrough the steps of first
examining our life and askingwhat is this?
You know what?
What?
What makes up an ordinary day?
Um, what are its joys, what areits annoyances, what are its
longings?
Can we distill what it seems toyou know be trying to be?
Does it want to have more timein the garden?
(13:58):
Does it want to have more timeas an active parent?
Does it want to have more timein the garden?
Does it want to have more timeas an active parent?
Does it want to go back to gradschool?
You know what does it want andhow.
What is the bridge?
You know what are the bridges.
And then we go from you knowthe souvenirs of that
examination to making some edits.
And then the last step, which Ithink, certainly for me is the
hardest, because I like to dothings and change things and
(14:21):
edit things and improve thingswe go from examine to edit to
just to enjoy.
The third E is to enjoy and tojust live in it and to, you know
, continue to, you know, moveforward, but without feeling
that everything needs to bechanged radically every day.
Judy Oskam (14:40):
Sure, sure, well, and what do you feel like people
have the most trouble with whenthey're really looking at their
own life and they're trying toedit their life?
And again, intention withintention.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (14:54):
Yes, I think that the hardest.
I think most people knowexactly what they want and need
once they've done a little bitof you know, honest thinking
about it, you know most peoplecan sort of get there pretty
quickly and most people canpretty quickly identify the
annoyances and the things thataren't working, although I think
that's a little harder becausesome of them I think it's easy
(15:15):
to be in denial about becausethey're embarrassing and they
make us feel small.
But I think most people can getthere pretty soon about because
they're embarrassing and theymake us feel small.
But I think most people can getthere pretty soon.
But I think where peoplestruggle the most and where
certainly you know before wemoved to the shed, I struggled
the most is just with theenormity of how many changes
need to be made.
So it feels like a drop in thebucket to just say like well,
I'm going to try to feed mychildren more healthfully when
(15:36):
you know we can barely affordthe house or whatever the thing
is.
So I think just the sort ofsheer overwhelm is probably the
first one, which again goes backto you know, the sort of
smallness of a change leads toanother smallness of a change,
another small change, but but itreally is.
I think about not being rigidlyafraid to make, to make one and
(15:56):
to see what happens when thatone makes you feel better.
Judy Oskam (16:00):
What did you notice when you guys first, I guess,
went to a simpler life?
Or how do you describe it whenyou, when someone, says, well,
tell me your story about how youwent from a I guess, society's
view of a middle class family or, and then you went to what?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (16:23):
We went to what we just call it a
single word.
We just say we shed we justshed.
Judy Oskam (16:28):
I know shed S-H-E-D.
Yeah, tell me what that means.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (16:35):
I think of it as sort of getting rid of
the old skin and I think of itas, um, you know, taking off the
winter coat and just being alittle bit, um, sort of more
simply, simply facing the lifethat is to face.
Um, but I, the way we spokeabout it to the children in,
because of course they were theones who were living in the
(16:56):
weird houses with the weirdparents was that, um, it was a
choice for all the reasons thatwe had been discussing, you know
, with them and in front of themfor a while.
But that, outside of the sort ofnarrow you know, the narrow,
our, you know our tiny world inyou know in boise and idaho and
in america and in countries likeamerica, people have lived in
spaces like this throughout theworld, throughout time, forever,
(17:19):
that this is nothing differentfrom, and James and I both got
into the kids' schools and triedto get them to imagine what
could fit into a house this size, and they're always amazed at
the thought that the one thatthey always say but where's the
TV, where's the washer dryer?
But it's such a I mean, andthen I think so on one end,
people throughout time and allover the world, throughout time,
(17:41):
have lived in, you know, caves,welsh roundhouses, you know,
pick your small dwelling.
And I also liken it to the factthat in the beginning of life we
live in, you know, a room inour parents' house.
We live in a dorm room.
You know we live in a firststudio apartment in an expensive
city.
We live in a first studioapartment in an expensive city,
and then I've seen many of uslive similarly small but we have
(18:02):
this sort of imperative to makethe middle really kind of
swollen, which again didn't workfor us but works for many.
But, it just felt like kind of acleaner journey from, you know
again, beginning middle scarcityto abundance, abundance, um,
(18:23):
and with and without so much um.
You know there's.
There's a beautiful book that Ilove by the writer, craig
Lambert, called mind over water.
It's about um rowing and he hasthe line on it about how, how a
course that minimizes he saysit more eloquently but that
minimizes sharp turns is asmoother course, which of course
it is.
And I think about how part ofthe you know, the wisdom of
(18:45):
learning to write with those,you know, the elders in
Cambridge, was that I could seethe long shot of it will be
writing and there will be allsorts of turns to get there, but
it won't suddenly like, I won'tbe blindsided by the fact that
it's writing and I think, in away, by living in a house that
isn't so distractingly,overwhelmingly stressful, you
know all the things that, yeah,that it feels just like here is
(19:06):
the thing that matters and wecan check in with that.
Is this still the thing?
How do we need to adapt?
Okay, the kids are older now.
How do we adapt again?
James's job has changed.
How do we adapt again?
So it feels like a course that'ssmooth and that I, you know I'm
too wise to know.
You know to think it willalways be easy, but at least we
are paying attention.
Judy Oskam (19:27):
And you know the word intention.
Does that also tie in withcontrol, a level of you feel a
little more in control of yourown destiny?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (19:36):
Very much so.
I think it has to do withintention, attention and a sense
that the and again, you speakto this so well in many of your
conversations that we can, um, I, I, we can kind of it's
protective Um and it's sort of away of of what's the word I'm
(20:09):
thinking of, like cultivatingthe self.
You know, it's a way of sort ofcultivating the self.
Judy Oskam (20:14):
Of becoming who you really are.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (20:16):
maybe yes, exactly Like any kind of
distillation way of like.
This is the essential,elizabeth.
This is the essential, judy.
This is not all the people Imight have been or would like to
pretend I am, but here you go,right here and and that's sort
of safe and sane anduncomplicated but can ultimately
be open to the world and Ithink a pretty big way because
(20:39):
it doesn't have a lot to defendand carry.
Judy Oskam (20:43):
Do you?
Do you and your husband callyourself minimalist at all?
Is this part of the minimalistmovement or not?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (20:50):
We're not really we've never been kind
of we don't really use what'sthe word I'm trying to say you
know, we don't really use what'sthe word I'm trying to say you
know, we don't really use theterm minimalist, although we
definitely are um.
We're sort of not bandwagoningI feel like we're.
You know, they're alwaysdifferent and we just kind of
were like, well, we've all, youknow, I remember in college I
had a great pair of checkeredpants and all my friends were
(21:10):
like those are terriblyunfashionable.
And I was like, well,comfortable.
And then, like five years later, the checkered pants became
very fashionable and then theywent fashion again.
I think that it feels like allof us should probably consider
how many things we have, because, you know, so it feels less of
a trend and more sort of aresponsible thing.
But yeah, but I would say that,you know, I would say that we
(21:30):
are minimalists and I would saythat our children recognize that
, because when they're havingsort of rebellious adolescent
moments, they say, well, you areminimalist, we are going to
grow up and be maximalists, ohyeah but the term shed I like.
Judy Oskam (21:44):
I like the dual meaning there of the physical
space, but also the shedding ofmaterialism.
Is it materialism?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (21:54):
yeah, I think so.
I think just anything thatisn't um, that just isn't really
that important, um, and nothingagainst.
You know the, the delights of,you know thinking of.
I'm holding up right now abeautiful water bottle that I
use every day, great touch let'shear it for like you know,
materials that we enjoy verymuch, but sort of as a as a
trophy.
That just seems like such awaste of time you know all of it
(22:16):
.
And I think that most people bythe end of life feel like all
right, you know it's here, heregoes, but you know we don't need
all that, so yeah, so I thinkit's a way of to us I think it
just felt kind of like a wasteof time, and money and not the
important thing as much.
Judy Oskam (22:34):
Let's go back briefly to that group of older
women when you were 19.
And you probably had a reallygood view of what might be
coming back then, even fromlearning about from their wisdom
.
What did you take back fromthat?
(22:54):
I mean, what do you think aboutnow when you think about those
women, that 101 or 104-year-oldwoman?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (22:58):
Oh, I loved learning from them and I
do think that they gave me, yeah, just a sort of glimpse into
what it will be like in thatthird of life.
And it's funny because now myhusband and I have been married
for now 16 years.
Often I will turn to him andsay things like, james, when
(23:18):
you're in your nineties, do youthink you're going to?
And he'll look around and say Idon't know what I'm going to be
doing next week.
I feel like I have a veryactive to give my older self the
best chance she can have to,you know, have good
relationships and still behealthy and still create and
(23:41):
still you know all of thosethings.
So I think that they reallyopened up that you know that
relationship by doing that.
But it is funny, though, that Ithink it never occurred to me
and this is something sort ofnew and strange and funny that
this is ridiculous.
Judy Oskam (23:57):
It's ridiculous sort of what we focus on which I
guess expands and what we don't.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (24:07):
It never occurred.
I feel like I came to a lot ofthe I don't know if that's
entirely true.
Maybe that's the wrong thought,but I was astonished this year
when I realized that I'mmiddle-aged, because I think I
was like this baby person,because I'm like a teacher like
most of my friends are retiring,but I'm like I'm just starting
out, you know, but I'm like, oh,there's something between young
and like oh, that's the middle,that is the middle.
Judy Oskam (24:27):
Yes, yeah, I still walk by a mirror and think who
is that gray haired lady?
Oh, it's me.
Oh, but I think it's kind of.
This is why I really like thefocus of this book, because it
does give you, give readers, aframework for looking at their
life, but it also gives themtools, because I hate some of
(24:51):
those self help books that justpoint out all the negative.
I always want tools andstrategies.
Okay, what do I do about it now?
How do I take it and go?
So, when someone's reading yourbook, and if my students are
reading it and they're going tobe seniors in college, I mean
they can do some life editingtoo, right.
Elisabeth Sharp McKe (25:12):
Absolutely , Absolutely.
I think that I ask my childrento do a lot of these things.
I think that it's reallyhelpful to feel that we have, um
, some you know,responsibilities to be, to have
creative control over our lives,especially in light of all the
unknowns.
To to think about what, um, youknow what, what?
One of the tools in the bookthat I think about daily is what
(25:35):
I call the daily minimum, whichis probably could also be
called the morning routine orany number of things, but just
the idea of it's not linked totime as much as just what are
the things in the realm of, youknow, work, love, play, health.
That just should happen mostdays, and that's something that
I think any 10 year old could.
Then, you know, especially acollege kid who's going into
(25:57):
their, their twenties, um, oftenwithout an organizing principle
, you know, I think, as, aseducators and as a writer, for
me I felt like that was theorganizing principle of my
twenties and I knew thatwhatever choices I made would
have to support writing.
I'd have to have a spouse who'syou know, who was emotionally
supportive of that, and I'd haveto have, you know, jobs that
(26:18):
were flexible enough.
You know, that gave me time forit.
But I think that if we you know, I was lucky to have these
elders who sort of helped meunderstand that, but I think
that for someone in college toread that book and ask
themselves those questions andsort of have a mind, view of you
know sort of an editedperspective of here are the
things that matter to me, hereare the things that don't so
much.
What a gift to their coming 30year old self.
Judy Oskam (26:38):
Yeah, yeah.
And then when they're actuallyputting things into action and
they're enjoying or I would addthe word execute as well they're
actually executing it.
So then they're about to launchtheir career and knowing they
have agency to do that and thepower to do that.
I think that's where I have areal issue, and I always tell my
(27:00):
faculty that students go kthrough 12 and they're in a box.
They come to us and we say,okay, get out of the box.
And no wonder they ask us howmany pages do you want?
What size font do you want?
They want to know becausethey've been in the box for 12
years.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (27:17):
What a good point.
Judy Oskam (27:18):
And so I think we and now you add COVID in the
middle of that we have otherissues as educators that we're
actually trying to open themback up and help them kind of
get a little further.
But I love the focus onintention and I love the focus
on the fact that empoweringstudents to really take charge
(27:39):
of their own future.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (27:41):
Yes, it's so.
That's one thing that I thinkthe younger students can really
you know, can really learn fromthe students who have taken a
gap year or a gap decade.
That I think that the olderstudents you know that I used to
teach at Austin CommunityCollege when I was 24.
And it was amazing that they,you know, in college I was in a
box.
I would just come in and sayyou know what's the font, but
(28:04):
they would come in and knowexactly why they were there and
what they needed to learn fromme.
It was really cool to rise tothat as their teacher and
realize how much they werepaying for this education and
they needed.
They needed this now in thisform it was.
It really raised the bar for meand it was so exciting yeah,
yeah, that's great.
Judy Oskam (28:23):
well, and again, if you're giving us tools like and
I'm, you know, looking at mynotes here examine, edit and
enjoy, and then in the bookyou're going to explain some of
that, obviously you give us sometools.
Look ahead five years.
What are you going?
Largely like today, but withsome?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (28:43):
of the seeds being planted growing in
more surprising ways.
I feel like I'm happy with thewhat's the word?
Judy Oskam (29:08):
The path or the trajectory.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (29:11):
My sister always uses the word
latitude With the latitude of myteaching and writing careers,
I'm happy with the number ofprojects I have on my desk.
I'm happy with the classes I'mteaching.
I feel like these two staystable, obviously with different
students, different books.
That will be really satisfyingand will continue to be
(29:32):
interesting.
And I think the main variableis who my children will be when
they're 18 and 15, and how thatwill change my relationships
with them, my relationshipsoutside of them, my who knows my
time, my travel, all the things.
Judy Oskam (29:49):
I love it.
I love it Well, and I alwayslike to ask my guests about
their strengths.
And what are your?
What do you see as yourstrengths?
You don't have to have had theGallup, strengths Finder or
anything, but you know whatyou're, what you're best at,
what are your natural talentsbesides writing?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (30:07):
Oh, judy, I love the strength
question and I do have my GallupStrength because that was the
book.
This was in 2011.
This was the book that all ofmy young professional friends
were dropping off on eachother's doorsteps.
So I did take it when I was anew mother and I'd be curious
does it change when people takeit over the course of five or
six years?
Judy Oskam (30:25):
Well, not necessarily.
Sometimes they move around intheir top 10.
Sometimes I've had people dothat or if there have been major
life changes.
Sometimes people want to retakethe assessment and see, but it
all depends on what you thinkand how you're using them.
So so give me a couple of yourtop strengths then.
So my.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (30:45):
So my top five, um in order oh well,
positivity is first.
First Maximizer, Ooh okay.
Second Activator is third.
Judy Oskam (30:56):
Okay.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (30:57):
And then my next two are Ideation,
and I think they call itIntellection.
So the two sort of creative,intellectual ones which are what
I do all day were actually notthe top three, but the top three
I realized as soon as I gotthese results I use every single
day with writers, right andpersonal lives, like what, like
what you know.
Yes, there's hope for this book, here's what it can be, here's
(31:19):
some stuff so we can get itthere and with your kids too.
Judy Oskam (31:22):
I'm sure you use it with your kids too.
Well, that's a great group ofstrengths, I mean, and just just
because you know, ideation, andthat's my number one, by the
way and and and and intellection.
Just because they're in your,you know, if they're in your top
10, you can dial those up anddial them down pretty easily.
So if you think of them, youknow, like that, I think that's
(31:45):
really helpful.
Positivity I'll tell you my momshe's going to be 93 tomorrow
and Positivity is her number oneand I told her I had her do
this Gallup thing about fouryears ago and so anytime she's
down I'll say, okay, mom, dialup your positivity because they
(32:05):
can really see it.
So again, that's such a goodone.
And Maximizer, that means you'regoing to take advantage of
every opportunity and make itwork for you.
So that's a great group oftalents.
All of that's fantastic.
And I think, knowing that andagain, giving yourself
permission and with theintention to really focus on
(32:28):
those strengths that you need,you know, and pull those in when
you when you need, then youknow, tamp them down when you
don't, you know, I think that'sreally important.
So that's great, that's great.
Well, and as a teacher, Ireally think positivity is
really good for teaching and forparenting too, right, I mean,
(32:48):
it's so important.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (32:50):
It's so important.
Judy Oskam (32:51):
Oh, that's, very cool.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (32:53):
Oh, that's a happy birthday to your
mom.
Yes, yes, yes, I've got to goget a cake for her in a little
bit.
Judy Oskam (32:58):
We're having a little get together, so it's
going to be fun.
But yeah, I just think I justI'm so glad that we were able to
connect and you could sharesome of your positivity about
ways we could edit our lives.
Any closing comments you wantto give for the listeners.
It's been wonderful to ideatewith you and to talk about all
(33:19):
these things.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (33:20):
It's been inspiring and fun.
Thank you so much for thisconversation.
Judy Oskam (33:26):
Great, it's been fun , and can I call you Liz then,
is it Liz?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (33:30):
You can call me Liz.
You can call me Liz, great,great.
Judy Oskam (33:33):
Liz, thank you for joining us and again, I will put
the information in the shownotes and I will ask my students
to listen so they can learnabout how they can edit their
lives.
And the full title of the bookis Edit your Life a handbook for
living with intention in amessy world.
And it is a messy world, butwe're glad you're in it, thanks,
(33:54):
oh, we're glad you're in it.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (33:55):
Thank you so much, Judy.
This has been so much fun.
Talk to you later.
Judy Oskam (34:00):
Thanks for joining me on Stories of Change and
Creativity, and remember ifyou've got a story to share or
know someone who does reach outto me at judyoskam.
com.
Thanks for listening.
Have you ever wanted or needed to change your life
and wondered how to do it?
Well, this interview may be foryou.
Welcome to Stories of Changeand Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam.
On this episode, I'm excited toshare my conversation with
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta.
She is the author of 13 books.
(00:23):
She teaches writing for Harvardand Oxford and is the founder
of the Book Year Writer's Circle.
She wrote the book Edit yourLife: A Handbook for Living with
Intention in a Messy World.
and as a former journalistturned university professor, I
know about editing.
When I worked as a reporter intelevision news, I edited copy
(00:46):
and video.
As a teacher, now I helpstudents edit their work.
The process of editing makeseverything clear and
understandable, and editing canalso apply to life.
Elizabeth knows about what shewrites.
During our interview, sheshares the story of her own
(01:06):
major life edit.
I think you'll find itinteresting.
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (01:13):
I got into writing as a kid.
Both of my parents were, andare, big readers.
Also, there are a lot ofeducators in my family, so I
think the idea of having lots ofinteresting books around that
led to interesting discussionswas just part of the sort of the
culture that I grew up in,which was really lovely kids in
(01:45):
the way that all kids docreative things.
I've got two children now whospend weekends making cardboard
apartments for their stuffedanimals and writing poems and
stuff like that Very creativekids.
And then as I grew up, I justdidn't grow out of writing and I
think part of it was that itwas a place to process the very
matter of this podcast.
Place to process the verymatter of this podcast, the my
(02:09):
wishes for my life, the changesthat I was feeling in myself as
a young person.
So writing was just a safeplace to kind of rest on the
page and put all that stuff outthere.
So I was a big journal keeperand then when I went to college
I had this incredible I'm goingto call it an initiation.
I was an undergrad at Harvardand applied as a sophomore to
every single creative writingclass that they offered which
(02:33):
was eight at the time and gotrejected from every single
creative writing class that theyoffered Every single one and
each one.
This was the days when they allhad specific essays that you had
to write for each one.
So one of them I wrote.
I remember having to write ashort story about a train.
I mean, I worked so hard to getinto these classes, didn't get
into any of them and waswondering how I will ever
(02:53):
improve my writing without ateacher.
When my wonderful collegeroommate, who's a neurologist
and still one of my best friends, was at the time, um, working
in as a receptionist in um forwhat used to be Radcliffe
College, now is RadcliffeInstitute of Study, and she
brought back an ad for acommunity education writing
(03:16):
class on right on on journal, onkeeping a journal colon weaving
your autobiography.
And she brought it back andsaid Liz, you might apply for
this.
They might take you.
And so I put together myapplication and sent it in and
got accepted and walked to myfirst day of class at age 19 and
(03:37):
went into the you know thebowels of this long building,
with you know, room after room,door after door, one of those
academic buildings that you'revery familiar with and I walked
to the you know the room numberand walked in and there were
about 20 very old women sittingaround the table and I looked at
(04:00):
all of them and they looked atme and I gave an apologetic wave
and thought clearly I'm in thewrong room.
And then I checked the numberagain and this was my class.
And they were so surprised tosee me because I was 19.
And I was welcomed in and wrotewith this group of women for
the next four years until ourinstructor died at age 101.
Judy Oskam (04:21):
Wow.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (04:22):
I know, About a week before Bush's
second election, which she wouldhave thought was very something
was very good timing.
She was very political, was acommunist, had four husbands
that she outlived reallyinteresting teacher, and most of
the writers were in their 70s,80s and 90s and they just took
me in and were so generous intrusting me with their stories.
(04:43):
So that was the place where Iwent from being a private writer
, journal keeper, scribbler ofpoems in tea shops, to someone
who every Tuesday had an essaydue to a very rigorous reader
who corrected you know, whowould not let us use passive
verbs, and he was trained in NewYork or New York Times style
editing and was just very fierceabout the kind of writer she
(05:06):
wanted her students to be.
So it was incredible disciplineof four years of these Tuesday
assignments and during that timeI wrote, I finished two memoirs
, which was kind of amazingconsidering all the things that
I was so young but it justwasn't really.
I found my pack and they becamemy girlfriends and now, by this
point, I've outlived all of them, which is so strange, but they
(05:26):
were my elders and I realizedmore and more how much of a gift
they gave me by taking me andtaking me seriously and helping
me, really showing me somethingthat I again.
The layers of the meaning ofthis come, you know, have come
later, but we were, even thoughthe specifics of our lives were
so different.
I was writing about my collegeboyfriend and about, you know,
(05:48):
sort of rowdy college weekendsand they were writing about
making normal aid and you knowdifficult conversations with
their children and.
But at the end of the day therewere these, what I now think of
as the birth, love and deathcycle.
You know we were all writingabout, you know, beginnings and
excitement and connection andthe complications that come with
(06:09):
it, and endings and the griefand these birth, love, death
cycles that I now think of asthe only, really the only three
stories were reflected in all ofour story.
We're all writing, you know thebig things of life, even with
individual details.
So I think that was one of the.
So that was, I think, one ofthe.
That was what made me amemoirist, for sure.
And on the side and I didn'trealize how these would
(06:31):
intersect I had an incredibleteacher it always comes back to
the teachers who was a fair isalive, still is a dear friend,
still is a fairy tale scholar,who was Maria Tatar, and so I
was taking classes.
I did get accepted into herclass, so I studied fairy tales
with her at Harvard and thenstudied memoir with Hope Hale
Davis, the memoir teacher, andso these two sort of seeds of
(06:52):
storytelling intersected andhave continued to.
Just, I don't know thisbeanstalk of these genres have
been a part of my writing eversince.
Judy Oskam (07:00):
So I think fairy tale.
Oh, that's wild.
And now don't you teach a classin?
In memoir writing.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (07:06):
I feel like I was born to teach this
class.
I teach a class called mythicmemoir that I designed for
Harvard a few years ago, and thestuff that comes out of it is
incredible.
Judy Oskam (07:14):
So you actually combine both of those areas oh,
I love that.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (07:19):
It's so much fun and I feel that's.
That's one of the books in myfiles, one for one day, and
there are too many of thosebooks, but one on mythic memoir
just a little sort of tiny,little slender textbook on this,
because it's such a wonderfulway to think about these epic
stories that all of our livesare and these highly specific
details that are as unique asour fingerprints, and what
(07:41):
happens when we find them.
It's so cool.
Judy Oskam (07:43):
Well, and and you've , you've kind of gone through
your own path and your ownjourney in how you came to a new
place, and that's where thebook edit your life comes in.
So talk about what you decidedto do as a family, and that's
pretty, pretty bold and prettycourageous, I think.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (08:04):
It was a wonderful um.
It was, it was bold, it wascourageous and it was it was
funny to think about it that wemoved from for for listeners, um
, the.
The book that we're referringto is called edit your life, and
it's um stemmed from a Ted talkI did, which was based on an
experience my family and I hadin 2017, moving from a big
(08:28):
American house to a 275 squarefoot, though we made it a little
bigger, we added on a tiny kidsroom, tiny backyard guest house
so that we could just have asimpler life, distilled to the
things that we really enjoyed,which were hanging out with our
kids, doing hikes, reading, youknow, working, going on
(08:50):
adventures you know the stuffthat wasn't.
You know, taking on weird sidehustle jobs to pay for expensive
repairs.
You know cleaning you know allthe things that sort of come
with being the staff of the bighouse.
So it was a decision that wascompletely practical in terms of
just time and money, which, youknow, new parents know, there's
never enough of no, no, never,ever, ever.
Judy Oskam (09:12):
Older parents know that too Exactly.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (09:14):
Never enough, never enough.
So it felt like this wonderfuldecision that we went from.
You know, we had athree-year-old and a
six-year-old and um, two parentswho worked at home very
completely so that we couldspend time as equal parents with
our kids.
You know, we didn't want tosort of feel that only one of us
was a capable parent or thatone of us sort of got to know
(09:36):
them as babies.
We really wanted to do ittogether and we and we have um,
and so we yes, we went fromscarcity mode, which I now see
was really heavy and chaotic andstressful and hard on my
relationship with myself, hardon my ability to write, hard on
my marriage, hard on my abilityto be a present parent.
(10:03):
It was hard on everything justbecause we were sort of running,
you know, we didn't have enoughtime and money.
It's always stressful toovernight abundance mode and I
know it sounds ridiculous andsimplistic, but just the single
choice of having no livingexpenses, essentially, you know,
no housing expenses.
Judy Oskam (10:19):
After working so hard to earn them.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (10:22):
Exactly , it freed us up immensely.
It was just, it was anincredible overnight change to
just looking around.
I remember the spaciousness ofthe first day when we took the
kids to school and sort oflooked around and made avocado
toast and we're sort of waitingfor the sort of crazy frenzy of
like we need to do all thesethings Instead.
We just kind of we didn't, youknow, I think we went for a walk
(10:43):
and we took the dog.
We just kind of we didn't, youknow, I think we went for a walk
and we took the dog.
I mean, it was just this, youknow that feeling of
spaciousness when you come intoa new room or to a new city and
you just feel like you canexhale.
It was like that and it wasjust you found your life again.
Judy Oskam (10:54):
Then really you actually found the name of your
book.
The entire name of your book isedit your life a handbook for
living with intention and amessy world, a Handbook for
Living with Intention in a MessyWorld.
I love that title because theolder I get, the messier I think
the world is, isn't?
That true it's just messy and Ilove the focus on intention.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (11:16):
Yes, thank you.
Judy Oskam (11:18):
Thank you so much.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (11:19):
It's important, and I think it's, and
I think about that and this isa bit of a sidetrack, but I
turned 45 next week.
Know, the first half of myadult life I was spent gathering
(11:42):
, you know, gathering practicalthings like a decent blender.
But also, you know, the thingthat was most important to me
was wisdom.
Just trying to figure out, like, what do I need to know in
terms of, um, both, you know howto, how to work, how to write,
but also things like how to howto eat, how to exercise.
You know a lot of your tinyhabits, just sort of figuring
out those and then doing themlong enough to accept them, not
(12:05):
fight them.
It just feels like so much ofthe last 20 years has just been
building, building wisdom,building relationship with self,
and now I feel that, um, I feelheavy with it and on one hand,
I feel like I have, you know,wonderful habits and I can trust
myself to ride and I can trustmyself to be a good friend and
all of these things.
And I'm now looking at the nextyou know, 20 years and thinking
I think there's a lovely, afurther shedding, not of
(12:28):
physical things.
I feel that was part of whatthe last 20 years have been
realizing that I don't need thatmany.
Judy Oskam (12:33):
I don't need a big house, I only need one water
bottle.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (12:36):
But I think that there's going to be
some further simplifying interms of just sort of what I
need emotionally and in terms ofwisdom to carry me through.
Judy Oskam (12:45):
I don't know, yeah Well and I'm 20 years older than
you, so I can tell you that itdoes change and you do.
It's like the first time youhave a child.
I think your perspective isjust totally different, totally
different, and my husband and Iadopted our kids and it's the
(13:07):
same to me, is the same, butyour perspective of the world
changes and so your role in italso changes as well.
So I think that's part of it isthat when you're looking at and
I love the way in the book youyou looked at the you know sort
of I don't know if you'd call ita process, a three-step process
(13:28):
, where you do like examine,edit and enjoy.
Can you talk about that forpeople listening who say what
does she mean by edit my life,edit your life?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (13:37):
With life editing and with edit your
life.
It's um, I, I lead readersthrough the steps of first
examining our life and askingwhat is this?
You know what?
What?
What makes up an ordinary day?
Um, what are its joys, what areits annoyances, what are its
longings?
Can we distill what it seems toyou know be trying to be?
Does it want to have more timein the garden?
(13:58):
Does it want to have more timeas an active parent?
Does it want to have more timein the garden?
Does it want to have more timeas an active parent?
Does it want to go back to gradschool?
You know what does it want andhow.
What is the bridge?
You know what are the bridges.
And then we go from you knowthe souvenirs of that
examination to making some edits.
And then the last step, which Ithink, certainly for me is the
hardest, because I like to dothings and change things and
(14:21):
edit things and improve thingswe go from examine to edit to
just to enjoy.
The third E is to enjoy and tojust live in it and to, you know
, continue to, you know, moveforward, but without feeling
that everything needs to bechanged radically every day.
Judy Oskam (14:40):
Sure, sure, well, and what do you feel like people
have the most trouble with whenthey're really looking at their
own life and they're trying toedit their life?
And again, intention withintention.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (14:54):
Yes, I think that the hardest.
I think most people knowexactly what they want and need
once they've done a little bitof you know, honest thinking
about it, you know most peoplecan sort of get there pretty
quickly and most people canpretty quickly identify the
annoyances and the things thataren't working, although I think
that's a little harder becausesome of them I think it's easy
(15:15):
to be in denial about becausethey're embarrassing and they
make us feel small.
But I think most people can getthere pretty soon about because
they're embarrassing and theymake us feel small.
But I think most people can getthere pretty soon.
But I think where peoplestruggle the most and where
certainly you know before wemoved to the shed, I struggled
the most is just with theenormity of how many changes
need to be made.
So it feels like a drop in thebucket to just say like well,
I'm going to try to feed mychildren more healthfully when
(15:36):
you know we can barely affordthe house or whatever the thing
is.
So I think just the sort ofsheer overwhelm is probably the
first one, which again goes backto you know, the sort of
smallness of a change leads toanother smallness of a change,
another small change, but but itreally is.
I think about not being rigidlyafraid to make, to make one and
(15:56):
to see what happens when thatone makes you feel better.
Judy Oskam (16:00):
What did you notice when you guys first, I guess,
went to a simpler life?
Or how do you describe it whenyou, when someone, says, well,
tell me your story about how youwent from a I guess, society's
view of a middle class family or, and then you went to what?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (16:23):
We went to what we just call it a
single word.
We just say we shed we justshed.
Judy Oskam (16:28):
I know shed S-H-E-D.
Yeah, tell me what that means.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (16:35):
I think of it as sort of getting rid of
the old skin and I think of itas, um, you know, taking off the
winter coat and just being alittle bit, um, sort of more
simply, simply facing the lifethat is to face.
Um, but I, the way we spokeabout it to the children in,
because of course they were theones who were living in the
(16:56):
weird houses with the weirdparents was that, um, it was a
choice for all the reasons thatwe had been discussing, you know
, with them and in front of themfor a while.
But that, outside of the sort ofnarrow you know, the narrow,
our, you know our tiny world inyou know in boise and idaho and
in america and in countries likeamerica, people have lived in
spaces like this throughout theworld, throughout time, forever,
(17:19):
that this is nothing differentfrom, and James and I both got
into the kids' schools and triedto get them to imagine what
could fit into a house this size, and they're always amazed at
the thought that the one thatthey always say but where's the
TV, where's the washer dryer?
But it's such a I mean, andthen I think so on one end,
people throughout time and allover the world, throughout time,
(17:41):
have lived in, you know, caves,welsh roundhouses, you know,
pick your small dwelling.
And I also liken it to the factthat in the beginning of life we
live in, you know, a room inour parents' house.
We live in a dorm room.
You know we live in a firststudio apartment in an expensive
city.
We live in a first studioapartment in an expensive city,
and then I've seen many of uslive similarly small but we have
(18:02):
this sort of imperative to makethe middle really kind of
swollen, which again didn't workfor us but works for many.
But, it just felt like kind of acleaner journey from, you know
again, beginning middle scarcityto abundance, abundance, um,
(18:23):
and with and without so much um.
You know there's.
There's a beautiful book that Ilove by the writer, craig
Lambert, called mind over water.
It's about um rowing and he hasthe line on it about how, how a
course that minimizes he saysit more eloquently but that
minimizes sharp turns is asmoother course, which of course
it is.
And I think about how part ofthe you know, the wisdom of
(18:45):
learning to write with those,you know, the elders in
Cambridge, was that I could seethe long shot of it will be
writing and there will be allsorts of turns to get there, but
it won't suddenly like, I won'tbe blindsided by the fact that
it's writing and I think, in away, by living in a house that
isn't so distractingly,overwhelmingly stressful, you
know all the things that, yeah,that it feels just like here is
(19:06):
the thing that matters and wecan check in with that.
Is this still the thing?
How do we need to adapt?
Okay, the kids are older now.
How do we adapt again?
James's job has changed.
How do we adapt again?
So it feels like a course that'ssmooth and that I, you know I'm
too wise to know.
You know to think it willalways be easy, but at least we
are paying attention.
Judy Oskam (19:27):
And you know the word intention.
Does that also tie in withcontrol, a level of you feel a
little more in control of yourown destiny?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (19:36):
Very much so.
I think it has to do withintention, attention and a sense
that the and again, you speakto this so well in many of your
conversations that we can, um, I, I, we can kind of it's
protective Um and it's sort of away of of what's the word I'm
(20:09):
thinking of, like cultivatingthe self.
You know, it's a way of sort ofcultivating the self.
Judy Oskam (20:14):
Of becoming who you really are.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (20:16):
maybe yes, exactly Like any kind of
distillation way of like.
This is the essential,elizabeth.
This is the essential, judy.
This is not all the people Imight have been or would like to
pretend I am, but here you go,right here and and that's sort
of safe and sane anduncomplicated but can ultimately
be open to the world and Ithink a pretty big way because
(20:39):
it doesn't have a lot to defendand carry.
Judy Oskam (20:43):
Do you?
Do you and your husband callyourself minimalist at all?
Is this part of the minimalistmovement or not?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (20:50):
We're not really we've never been kind
of we don't really use what'sthe word I'm trying to say you
know, we don't really use what'sthe word I'm trying to say you
know, we don't really use theterm minimalist, although we
definitely are um.
We're sort of not bandwagoningI feel like we're.
You know, they're alwaysdifferent and we just kind of
were like, well, we've all, youknow, I remember in college I
had a great pair of checkeredpants and all my friends were
(21:10):
like those are terriblyunfashionable.
And I was like, well,comfortable.
And then, like five years later, the checkered pants became
very fashionable and then theywent fashion again.
I think that it feels like allof us should probably consider
how many things we have, because, you know, so it feels less of
a trend and more sort of aresponsible thing.
But yeah, but I would say that,you know, I would say that we
(21:30):
are minimalists and I would saythat our children recognize that
, because when they're havingsort of rebellious adolescent
moments, they say, well, you areminimalist, we are going to
grow up and be maximalists, ohyeah but the term shed I like.
Judy Oskam (21:44):
I like the dual meaning there of the physical
space, but also the shedding ofmaterialism.
Is it materialism?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (21:54):
yeah, I think so.
I think just anything thatisn't um, that just isn't really
that important, um, and nothingagainst.
You know the, the delights of,you know thinking of.
I'm holding up right now abeautiful water bottle that I
use every day, great touch let'shear it for like you know,
materials that we enjoy verymuch, but sort of as a as a
trophy.
That just seems like such awaste of time you know all of it
(22:16):
.
And I think that most people bythe end of life feel like all
right, you know it's here, heregoes, but you know we don't need
all that, so yeah, so I thinkit's a way of to us I think it
just felt kind of like a wasteof time, and money and not the
important thing as much.
Judy Oskam (22:34):
Let's go back briefly to that group of older
women when you were 19.
And you probably had a reallygood view of what might be
coming back then, even fromlearning about from their wisdom
.
What did you take back fromthat?
(22:54):
I mean, what do you think aboutnow when you think about those
women, that 101 or 104-year-oldwoman?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (22:58):
Oh, I loved learning from them and I
do think that they gave me, yeah, just a sort of glimpse into
what it will be like in thatthird of life.
And it's funny because now myhusband and I have been married
for now 16 years.
Often I will turn to him andsay things like, james, when
(23:18):
you're in your nineties, do youthink you're going to?
And he'll look around and say Idon't know what I'm going to be
doing next week.
I feel like I have a veryactive to give my older self the
best chance she can have to,you know, have good
relationships and still behealthy and still create and
(23:41):
still you know all of thosethings.
So I think that they reallyopened up that you know that
relationship by doing that.
But it is funny, though, that Ithink it never occurred to me
and this is something sort ofnew and strange and funny that
this is ridiculous.
Judy Oskam (23:57):
It's ridiculous sort of what we focus on which I
guess expands and what we don't.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (24:07):
It never occurred.
I feel like I came to a lot ofthe I don't know if that's
entirely true.
Maybe that's the wrong thought,but I was astonished this year
when I realized that I'mmiddle-aged, because I think I
was like this baby person,because I'm like a teacher like
most of my friends are retiring,but I'm like I'm just starting
out, you know, but I'm like, oh,there's something between young
and like oh, that's the middle,that is the middle.
Judy Oskam (24:27):
Yes, yeah, I still walk by a mirror and think who
is that gray haired lady?
Oh, it's me.
Oh, but I think it's kind of.
This is why I really like thefocus of this book, because it
does give you, give readers, aframework for looking at their
life, but it also gives themtools, because I hate some of
(24:51):
those self help books that justpoint out all the negative.
I always want tools andstrategies.
Okay, what do I do about it now?
How do I take it and go?
So, when someone's reading yourbook, and if my students are
reading it and they're going tobe seniors in college, I mean
they can do some life editingtoo, right.
Elisabeth Sharp McKe (25:12):
Absolutely , Absolutely.
I think that I ask my childrento do a lot of these things.
I think that it's reallyhelpful to feel that we have, um
, some you know,responsibilities to be, to have
creative control over our lives,especially in light of all the
unknowns.
To to think about what, um, youknow what, what?
One of the tools in the bookthat I think about daily is what
(25:35):
I call the daily minimum, whichis probably could also be
called the morning routine orany number of things, but just
the idea of it's not linked totime as much as just what are
the things in the realm of, youknow, work, love, play, health.
That just should happen mostdays, and that's something that
I think any 10 year old could.
Then, you know, especially acollege kid who's going into
(25:57):
their, their twenties, um, oftenwithout an organizing principle
, you know, I think, as, aseducators and as a writer, for
me I felt like that was theorganizing principle of my
twenties and I knew thatwhatever choices I made would
have to support writing.
I'd have to have a spouse who'syou know, who was emotionally
supportive of that, and I'd haveto have, you know, jobs that
(26:18):
were flexible enough.
You know, that gave me time forit.
But I think that if we you know, I was lucky to have these
elders who sort of helped meunderstand that, but I think
that for someone in college toread that book and ask
themselves those questions andsort of have a mind, view of you
know sort of an editedperspective of here are the
things that matter to me, hereare the things that don't so
much.
What a gift to their coming 30year old self.
Judy Oskam (26:38):
Yeah, yeah.
And then when they're actuallyputting things into action and
they're enjoying or I would addthe word execute as well they're
actually executing it.
So then they're about to launchtheir career and knowing they
have agency to do that and thepower to do that.
I think that's where I have areal issue, and I always tell my
(27:00):
faculty that students go kthrough 12 and they're in a box.
They come to us and we say,okay, get out of the box.
And no wonder they ask us howmany pages do you want?
What size font do you want?
They want to know becausethey've been in the box for 12
years.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (27:17):
What a good point.
Judy Oskam (27:18):
And so I think we and now you add COVID in the
middle of that we have otherissues as educators that we're
actually trying to open themback up and help them kind of
get a little further.
But I love the focus onintention and I love the focus
on the fact that empoweringstudents to really take charge
(27:39):
of their own future.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (27:41):
Yes, it's so.
That's one thing that I thinkthe younger students can really
you know, can really learn fromthe students who have taken a
gap year or a gap decade.
That I think that the olderstudents you know that I used to
teach at Austin CommunityCollege when I was 24.
And it was amazing that they,you know, in college I was in a
box.
I would just come in and sayyou know what's the font, but
(28:04):
they would come in and knowexactly why they were there and
what they needed to learn fromme.
It was really cool to rise tothat as their teacher and
realize how much they werepaying for this education and
they needed.
They needed this now in thisform it was.
It really raised the bar for meand it was so exciting yeah,
yeah, that's great.
Judy Oskam (28:23):
well, and again, if you're giving us tools like and
I'm, you know, looking at mynotes here examine, edit and
enjoy, and then in the bookyou're going to explain some of
that, obviously you give us sometools.
Look ahead five years.
What are you going?
Largely like today, but withsome?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (28:43):
of the seeds being planted growing in
more surprising ways.
I feel like I'm happy with thewhat's the word?
Judy Oskam (29:08):
The path or the trajectory.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (29:11):
My sister always uses the word
latitude With the latitude of myteaching and writing careers,
I'm happy with the number ofprojects I have on my desk.
I'm happy with the classes I'mteaching.
I feel like these two staystable, obviously with different
students, different books.
That will be really satisfyingand will continue to be
(29:32):
interesting.
And I think the main variableis who my children will be when
they're 18 and 15, and how thatwill change my relationships
with them, my relationshipsoutside of them, my who knows my
time, my travel, all the things.
Judy Oskam (29:49):
I love it.
I love it Well, and I alwayslike to ask my guests about
their strengths.
And what are your?
What do you see as yourstrengths?
You don't have to have had theGallup, strengths Finder or
anything, but you know whatyou're, what you're best at,
what are your natural talentsbesides writing?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (30:07):
Oh, judy, I love the strength
question and I do have my GallupStrength because that was the
book.
This was in 2011.
This was the book that all ofmy young professional friends
were dropping off on eachother's doorsteps.
So I did take it when I was anew mother and I'd be curious
does it change when people takeit over the course of five or
six years?
Judy Oskam (30:25):
Well, not necessarily.
Sometimes they move around intheir top 10.
Sometimes I've had people dothat or if there have been major
life changes.
Sometimes people want to retakethe assessment and see, but it
all depends on what you thinkand how you're using them.
So so give me a couple of yourtop strengths then.
So my.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (30:45):
So my top five, um in order oh well,
positivity is first.
First Maximizer, Ooh okay.
Second Activator is third.
Judy Oskam (30:56):
Okay.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (30:57):
And then my next two are Ideation,
and I think they call itIntellection.
So the two sort of creative,intellectual ones which are what
I do all day were actually notthe top three, but the top three
I realized as soon as I gotthese results I use every single
day with writers, right andpersonal lives, like what, like
what you know.
Yes, there's hope for this book, here's what it can be, here's
(31:19):
some stuff so we can get itthere and with your kids too.
Judy Oskam (31:22):
I'm sure you use it with your kids too.
Well, that's a great group ofstrengths, I mean, and just just
because you know, ideation, andthat's my number one, by the
way and and and and intellection.
Just because they're in your,you know, if they're in your top
10, you can dial those up anddial them down pretty easily.
So if you think of them, youknow, like that, I think that's
(31:45):
really helpful.
Positivity I'll tell you my momshe's going to be 93 tomorrow
and Positivity is her number oneand I told her I had her do
this Gallup thing about fouryears ago and so anytime she's
down I'll say, okay, mom, dialup your positivity because they
(32:05):
can really see it.
So again, that's such a goodone.
And Maximizer, that means you'regoing to take advantage of
every opportunity and make itwork for you.
So that's a great group oftalents.
All of that's fantastic.
And I think, knowing that andagain, giving yourself
permission and with theintention to really focus on
(32:28):
those strengths that you need,you know, and pull those in when
you when you need, then youknow, tamp them down when you
don't, you know, I think that'sreally important.
So that's great, that's great.
Well, and as a teacher, Ireally think positivity is
really good for teaching and forparenting too, right, I mean,
(32:48):
it's so important.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (32:50):
It's so important.
Judy Oskam (32:51):
Oh, that's, very cool.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (32:53):
Oh, that's a happy birthday to your
mom.
Yes, yes, yes, I've got to goget a cake for her in a little
bit.
Judy Oskam (32:58):
We're having a little get together, so it's
going to be fun.
But yeah, I just think I justI'm so glad that we were able to
connect and you could sharesome of your positivity about
ways we could edit our lives.
Any closing comments you wantto give for the listeners.
It's been wonderful to ideatewith you and to talk about all
(33:19):
these things.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (33:20):
It's been inspiring and fun.
Thank you so much for thisconversation.
Judy Oskam (33:26):
Great, it's been fun , and can I call you Liz then,
is it Liz?
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (33:30):
You can call me Liz.
You can call me Liz, great,great.
Judy Oskam (33:33):
Liz, thank you for joining us and again, I will put
the information in the shownotes and I will ask my students
to listen so they can learnabout how they can edit their
lives.
And the full title of the bookis Edit your Life a handbook for
living with intention in amessy world.
And it is a messy world, butwe're glad you're in it, thanks,
(33:54):
oh, we're glad you're in it.
Elisabeth Sharp McKetta (33:55):
Thank you so much, Judy.
This has been so much fun.
Talk to you later.
Judy Oskam (34:00):
Thanks for joining me on Stories of Change and
Creativity, and remember ifyou've got a story to share or
know someone who does reach outto me at judyoskam.
com.
Thanks for listening.
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