May 2, 2024 • 23 mins
"Sleep isn't everything, but it impacts everything." - Glen Lubbert
Peak performance in life and business often starts with the foundation of a good night's sleep. Entrepreneur Glen Lubbert understands - first hand - the transformative influence that prioritizing sleep has on energy and focus.
A technology serial entrepreneur, Glen Lubbert is a certified sleep and behavior design expert, trained in mindfulness, nervous system management, and the Tiny Habits® and Thrive Global methodologies. He founded Stamina Lab to help people improve energy, focus, and resilience through data-informed sleep and health coaching.
Stamina Lab's two-week bootcamp stands as a testament to the power of 'Tiny Habits', demonstrating that small, intentional actions, like giving your phone its own bedtime, can lead to profound improvements in rest and, by extension, daily life.
In the ever-evolving odyssey of sleep and habit formation, Glen shares how cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia and the discipline of a consistent wake-up time are essential in harmonizing our internal clocks. We recognize the patience required as sleep patterns recalibrate, bolstered by self-compassion and the recognition that sleep optimization is a continuous journey, not a destination.
This episode inspired me to rethink the role of sleep in my life. You can connect with Glen and Stamina Lab for more information about their pioneering approach to wellness.
Thank you for joining us on Stories of Change and Creativity – We appreciate you leaving a review and any feedback.
Glen Lubbert's website
Stamina Lab
Restful Revolution 14-Day Reset
https://staminalab.io/restful-challenge/
Start for FREE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Judy Oskam (00:01):
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam and I loveinterviewing people who inspire,
educate and motivate.
On this episode, I'm sharing myconversation with Glen Lubbert.
Glen Lubbert (00:15):
Sleep isn't everything, but it impacts
everything.
Judy Oskam (00:20):
Glen is the founder of Stamina Lab.
He is a data-driven sleep andhealth coach and you'll hear why
he followed that path.
He's a technology entrepreneur,a certified sleep and behavior
design expert, and he's trainedin mindfulness nervous system
management, and he uses tinyhabits and thrive global
(00:41):
methodologies.
I think when you hear ourconversation, you'll understand
that innovation is part of hisDNA.
Glen Lubbert (00:49):
You know what's interesting?
I was just here in South bySouthwest is happening right now
to record this, and one of thespeakers mentioned something
that really resonated with me,which is entrepreneurship is a
trauma response and I thoughtand I found that really
fascinating and I went back andI started reading more about
(01:11):
that.
You know, it's some type ofsome point in your childhood
that this childhood is traumatic.
But in general, but you knowsome key things, what happened
that I think helped?
You know key things.
What happened that I thinkhelped?
You know it builds resilience,it builds creativity, um, it
brings self-reliance.
(01:31):
It is, uh lawful risk tolerance.
Um, because of this responseand I was like, oh, that's a
unique way of uh of doing,thinking about it, um, that is a
way to productively, um workthrough that.
Uh, trauma and being anentrepreneur, I really believe
(01:57):
is the ultimate self-improvementprogram because you're out
there all the time on the edgeon your own, because you're out
there all the time, on the edge,on your own, on your own,
hopefully, you can becollaborating with some
fantastic people and, yes,you're on your own and that it
is something that forcesconstant reflection, adjustment,
(02:22):
growth, and so I think that'sprobably why I have been
attracted to being anentrepreneur and continue to be.
Judy Oskam (02:31):
Well, if you use that sort of descriptor, what
was the trauma that led you tothat?
And I ask that because I grewup with a father who was an
entrepreneur and my brother isan entrepreneur and I went the
other way because I wanted alittle more security and I
wanted I saw what, what theywere going through and I wanted
(02:55):
a career and I started intelevision.
So I was in media at first andthen I thought I want to get at
the university where I can bewhat I call an entrepreneur and
I could be entrepreneurial, butinside a structure.
So that was sort of my deal.
But I grew up seeing my dad doa lot of risk, a lot of reward,
(03:18):
sometimes not so rewarding.
But what was it with you?
What was it?
A family?
Glen Lubbert (03:28):
There was definitely um.
There's as a point where I, myfamily, moved from way before I
started high school, moved froma really amazing urban uh or not
.
So I mean like um, mid-urban,like uh, that just a great
(03:48):
beautiful place.
That was uh fantastic forgrowing up, lots of kids around,
and we just had a really greatuh time up until that point.
And then we we, for family umreasons meaning someone had a
past, like my grandparents, andwe had had to go help support
them we moved from that place toa much more rural area, and so
(04:11):
I was just starting high schoolin an area I didn't know anybody
, and so I think that I alwaysgo back to that as like oh, this
is the point where I'm like, oh, I, I have to, I want to be in
control of, um, the direction oflife.
I have to uh you have to be thedriver.
Judy Oskam (04:29):
You have to drive that because rather than things
happening to you.
Glen Lubbert (04:32):
no, it's, it's that, that's a narrative that,
uh, you know that that propelledme and I've, you know, come to
recognize that that actually wasone as a great gift because of
all the things that I've donewith so, it with.
So it's not a point where Ilook back as a negative point of
view, but you process it, youprocess it, and I think that is
(04:55):
one of the key areas.
Judy Oskam (04:57):
Oh sure, and I have a good friend who's an
entrepreneur and she's adesigner and a chair designer,
and she would much rather workthose 80 plus hours for herself
than for somebody else.
So I think there's something.
It's not that you have your ownbusiness and it's easy and you
can do whatever you want.
You're you're solelyresponsible for everything.
(05:20):
So, I think that's fantastic.
And then what?
What led you up to creatingStamina Lab?
Glen Lubbert (05:29):
Yeah.
So I had a really great successearly on in this, so I was able
to start several companies andwhat happened was through that
process, you know, and I came toa point where I was getting
burned out.
And one of the things I advisea lot of young entrepreneurs on
(05:51):
is the fact that you aren't yourcompany.
You have multitudes, you'remuch larger than your company,
but when you're 25 years old andyou're putting everything you
can into this, you are thecompany, but you have to play
that jujitsu act of being, giveit your everything and being at
everything and, at the same time, be able to uh have identity
(06:12):
beyond that or above that.
And so I got to that pointwhere I was burned out.
I was traveling a lot back andforth across the coast we have
offices on both coasts andconstantly changing my uh time,
so then changing my sleep, andthen it got to a point where I
couldn't sleep, for I mean, Iwas able to rest but not really
(06:33):
get the deep REM sleep I needed,deep end REM sleep I needed.
So there was a month where Iwas like that and I could feel
it just like dragging on mybrain, and I went to my
management team and said listen,I haven't been sleeping and
it's affecting my ability tomake decisions.
I need some help, not in themhelping me with my challenge,
(06:54):
but for them to be more on topof the things for the company.
And that's when I put sleep atthe center of my life and said,
ok, now we have to buildeverything around being able to
maintain good, positivecircadian health.
So therefore, like I said, it'snot it's not everything, but it
impacts everything.
So it's in a habit.
(07:14):
From a way it's a keystonehabit, and so it's one habit
that, if you do that, it has aripple effect to every part of
your life.
And so we're always looking forthose keystone habits where we
can put those in a place whileeverything else becomes easier.
And then that was my journey toget to to get to that place
where I put sleep at the centerof my life, but then also to
(07:37):
know if I'm going to startanother company.
I really want to be really goodat being able to put these big
positive behaviors into my world, and so that also got.
Where I got to.
Tiny Habits is we're both TinyHabits coaches.
Judy Oskam (07:52):
Right and kind of explain kind of how Tiny Habits
helps you with this and and howyou use that within stamina lab.
Glen Lubbert (08:01):
Yeah, so we have, so I use it all the time.
I mean it's it's, it's built,baked into some of the things I
do and, and you know, make doingthat small tiny habit, no
matter what uh, that you'll doit, no matter how tired you are
or how, um, how much otherthings are going on.
You know you can have do morethan what you want you're going
(08:23):
to do.
And so, for example, my morningI have a morning movement
routine and that, so that isstarts with um, some, some uh
squats, and just do two squatsis the tiny habit.
Um, after I, after I get out ofthe shower, and so then it goes
on to a whole bunch of movementactivities.
(08:43):
But when I'm pressed for timeor I'm tired, I said south by
south is going, south bysouthwest is going on this week
here in austin, so there's somany things happening all day
into the evening and so the thethis morning I was like, okay, I
, I don't have time and I'm justgoing to be able to just do the
two squats instead of the wholefour minute more minute routine
, and that's uh satisfying um,and that still gets my day
(09:08):
started off on the right foot tobe able to execute and prepare.
So that's just one example ofhow I use tiny habits and how we
use it in Stamina.
Lab is all over the place.
So we have a two-week bootcampprogram that people go through
to work on their sleep.
(09:30):
You know we're not fixingeverything, but they're moving
in the right direction and wecan see, through the wearable
data, noticeable improvements inlowering their heart rate,
which is a sign of recovery, andincreasing their heart rate
variability, which is a directsign of the health of their
vagus nerve and their nervoussystem, which is a direct sign
of the health of their vagusnerve and their nervous system,
(09:50):
which is also a sign of recovery.
And nearly everyone who goesthrough the program that
participates.
It's just an easy two weeks andwhen we teach tiny habits and
they pick one or two tiny habitsto work on for their sleep and
sort of see, oh wow, this has afantastic impact.
Judy Oskam (10:08):
Well, what's the biggest challenge that people
come to you with?
They just say I'm burned out orI just can't sleep, and then
how do you take that and drilldown into really giving them
some actionable steps or habits,if you will?
Glen Lubbert (10:23):
Yeah, the biggest thing is I'm having trouble
falling asleep at night, or Iwake up in the middle of the
night and I can't go back tosleep.
So those are the two mainchallenges that people have, and
really what they're looking foris to have more energy, to be
able to have more focus, just tobe able to enjoy the day.
Sleep impacts everything youknow, from your long-term health
(10:48):
to your mental health today,your mood, your enjoyment of
life, and so really what wedrill down to is asking what
difference will having thatimproving your sleep make?
What difference will those youknow?
Obviously they will have moreenergy and focus, but what
difference will that energy andfocus have for you?
(11:11):
And I'll be able to, you know,get all the things at work I
want to have done, be able tohave the energy to be with my
family, my loved ones, myfriends, um, be able to be
present for them and and be amodel for the people around me.
So I think that's really reallydrilling down to what
difference is going to make, andjust to continue to ask what
(11:31):
else, what else, what else?
or what difference is going tomake, just to really get, make
it just a full picture with alltheir, all their senses and and
from there then saying all right, well then, let's pick.
Let's pick a workout, tinyhabit that can improve your
sleep and, as we know, you knowit's starting with something
(11:51):
that they're going to enjoy.
Let's pick something that youenjoy doing and that gets you
moving into the belief that youcan improve your sleep.
Judy Oskam (12:00):
Give us an example of a sleep-related enjoyable
habit.
Glen Lubbert (12:10):
Well, one of the ones I really like to suggest a
lot of times is to put yourphone to bed before you go to
sleep, ideally an hour or twohours.
So we set an alarm to wake upin the morning.
So setting an alarm in theevening that says, hey, this is
time for my phone to go to bed,and put the phone to bed, you
can tuck it in the bed and leavethe whole thing.
(12:30):
Good night phone.
And this has a really bigimpact because it reduces the
amount of blue light you'regoing to see and blue light is
telling your circadian clock hey, it's still daylight, don't
start producing melatonin.
That helps me fall asleep.
And it also takes away anyalerts that are coming in which
(12:55):
could release cortisol again tokeep you alert and awake.
And and it's signals to yourbody to start the wind down
process.
And ideally, if you can takeaway any of the electronics at
this at this point, whatever itis for you in the evening.
And I also hear often here like, oh well, once I put my phone
away and turn off my TV, what isthere to do?
And so then it's like oh well,maybe then I'll do some light
(13:19):
reading or stretching becausethere's not much else to do.
And that guy says, well, Iguess I'll go to bed.
Judy Oskam (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then waking up also is anissue too right For some people
if they don't sleep all night.
Glen Lubbert (13:32):
I know it has been for me, so yeah, so our coaches
I have a team of coaches thatdo the deep coaching and the key
part of it is using cognitivebehavioral therapy for insomnia
and that's managing, includingmanaging your nervous system,
(13:52):
and working on behavioral change, as we just talked about,
including tiny habits, and soone of the things that happens
we have a three month program tohelp improve your sleep, and
one of the things that happensabout two to three weeks into
the program is it gets worse andthen it gets better, because
one of the things you want toreally work on is waking you up
(14:15):
at the same time every day.
And so getting up, and even ifyou're tired, even if you didn't
go to bed until 3 am and youneed to get up at 7 o'clock 3 am
, and you, you need to get up umat seven o'clock yeah you're,
you're going to be tired, that,but you're going to then you're
going to start to feel tired andgo to sleep earlier because you
don't want to get into beduntil you do feel sleepy.
(14:37):
So at the beginning, when we'readjusting your circadian clock,
you're not going to feel,you're still not going to feel
sleepy in the evening becauseyou haven't had that uhness, the
sleep pressure happening yet.
And so you're like, okay, I'mstill staying up, still staying
up later, and then slowly youcan see how, by waking up at the
(14:58):
same time, you start buildingthat sleep pressure earlier and
earlier.
It doesn't matter um, whatmatters is, when you wake up in
the morning is getting sunlightas early as you can, and outdoor
sunlight, uh, specificallybecause it is magnitudes more um
impactful for setting thatcircadian clock, and when that
(15:21):
master clock, when it sees thatsunlight, it says okay, in 14 to
16 hours we're going to startproducing melatonin to allow the
body to start falling asleep,and that 14 to 16 hours can
start any time when you finallyget outside.
So if you don't get outsidetill 11 am, it's 14 to 16 hours
(15:41):
later.
So that's where we start.
With what time do you want towake up in the morning?
Okay, I want to get up thistime.
Okay.
So then this starts the wholething up.
When you wake up, when you gooutside, when you eat, when you
exercise all these, every cellin our body it has its own
little clock, but they're allbased on that master clock, and
so by by working on sleep,you're really working on a
(16:04):
person's whole day.
Judy Oskam (16:06):
I love that and and I've read, it's 10 minutes of
sunlight in the morning.
Is that correct or do you knowI?
Glen Lubbert (16:11):
With Tiny Habits, I would say get outside for a
minute, you know, just to getout, yeah, just to get out.
And, and you know, when you getoutside for a minute, just like
any other tiny habit, you'relike oh well, it's nice out here
, well, maybe I can pair it withdrinking my tea, or, depending
on your weather, you might onlybe able to get out for a minute,
but you're getting that minuteand it's something that sets
(16:36):
that clock to start.
Or if you have a pet, that'sanother great reason to get
outside in the morning.
Actually, go out with the petwhen it goes outside.
Judy Oskam (16:44):
Sure, I love that.
Well, how has it worked for younow that you've started a
company around a real need,which was one of your needs and
challenges?
How are you doing with withsleep, I have to ask.
Glen Lubbert (16:59):
So I think that's a great point to make.
Is that, uh and this includesall the coaches on our team say
the same thing?
Is that even sleep coaches orsleep experts have trouble
sleeping occasionally becauselife happens, stress happens and
you know, our nervous systemsget, uh, get challenged and and
(17:20):
put into that sympathetic fightor flight state and sometimes
it's really a in a state thattakes a lot to bring it down.
If you know, if you are stillmanaging it and you're still
doing the same things, it's,it's, it's a.
It's a.
I don't want to say wellbeing isa process, it's not a state you
(17:43):
get to and so you have to get apractice.
You have to do the practiceconstantly and and even even
when you know all the tools andyou have great tools in your
toolkit, you still have to dothe practice.
Now I would say that I'm muchbetter at getting back to sleep
or falling asleep when I wake upand um, and recognizing, when
(18:08):
I'm not falling asleep rightaway, to get back out of bed and
wait until I'm sleepy, um, toget into bed.
So if it takes an hour or twoor longer and I'm not not
getting to bed when I normallywant to, and I'll know that, hey
, I'm going to be sleepy thenext day, but not feeling
anxious about it.
And I think that's really whereit comes in is that people start
to get in this program wherethey feel anxious about hey, I'm
(18:33):
in bed, but if I'm not fallingasleep, I'm not going to be able
to perform my best in themorning, and therefore it
perpetuates and you can't fallasleep.
And meanwhile now your body'sassociating with being anxious
with being in bed and thereforethen, as it leads up to it, you
start thinking oh, I'm going togo to bed, will I be able to
fall asleep?
(18:53):
And this is how people get intothe challenge that we help, as
Samuel and I we help to solve.
Judy Oskam (19:02):
Well, yeah, and you guys are using science to do
that.
It's all science-backedinformation that helps them
understand why, and they're notbeating themselves up all the
time about that.
Glen Lubbert (19:14):
so yeah, and I think, and I think that it's why
it's like to say that, hey,even sleep experts have trouble
sleeping sometimes they don'tbeat yourself up.
be kind to yourself.
It's a key part of behavior.
Design is to be kind toyourself and know that, even if
you're not, even if you're notgoing to get a full night's
sleep, that you want to have andmaybe have something important
(19:35):
to do the next day.
I always like to equate it withathletes or musicians or
somebody who has a performancethe next day.
And I'm a former Division Oneathlete and I still participate
in races now and the nightbefore a race, I don't sleep
(19:55):
well.
None of my running friendssleep well the night before the
race.
But yeah, we perform reallywell and get our PRs, and so
what's with that?
Well, that's what I think toremember.
That lesson is that, yeah, it'sokay, you'll still be able to
perform really well.
Don't get anxious about it.
You'll be part of the topperformer, just like top
(20:16):
performing athletes, and thenext day you'll feel tired and
you'll go to sleep earlier.
Judy Oskam (20:22):
Exactly, exactly.
And I think it helps to givepeople permission to just relax
about it or let them make achange here or there.
And that's what I love aboutTiny Habits is, if one way isn't
working, you just iterate andgo the other, and that's sort of
right along the same path thatyou've done as an entrepreneur.
Glen Lubbert (20:46):
Yeah, I think having an experimenter's mindset
and that's where which werestamina, lab uh, comes from.
We obviously having this energyand longevity for the stamina,
but knowing it's a lab, you're alab and you are you.
You are the lab and you areyour own experiment.
Um, and we also like to say youare your own best coach.
Judy Oskam (21:06):
Yeah.
Glen Lubbert (21:07):
And so that that that's kind of sums up the
philosophy of how to approach uhboth, uh sleep challenges, but
also uh life in general,entrepreneurship, all exactly,
exactly well, you know I I'm agallup strengths coach and I
always like to ask people whatthey think their, their top
strength is.
Judy Oskam (21:28):
And as an entrepreneur, I know you have.
I can think of a couple rightnow.
But what?
What do you think is the?
Glen Lubbert (21:34):
is your top strength that helps you keep
going yeah, I say, I would saylots of times I say creativity,
innovation and creativity is akey in there and that's being
curious and being open-minded,having that growth mindset,
having a stress is enhancingmindset.
So that way, when stress comes,it comes to you, it actually
(21:55):
can help you grow.
And looking at it from thatperspective, I know whenever I'm
stuck and I feel like I'mconstricted because I'm like, oh
, this is the path that I haveplanned to take, but as soon as
I do a protocol, go for a walk,take some breaths to open up
physically, open up your brainand your body, and to open up to
(22:18):
possibilities and creativity.
Judy Oskam (22:21):
I love that and look ahead to the future of Stamina
Lab.
Where do you see Stamina Lab ina couple of years?
Where do you see you in acouple of years?
Are you going to be doing aspinoff company from this one,
or what's next for you?
Glen Lubbert (22:35):
Well, we're just getting really just getting
started here with Stamina Lab,and my hope is to be able to
have many, many sleep coachesand health coaches within our
organization helping and healthcoaches within our organization
helping thousands of peopleimprove their behavior to have,
like I said, to be able to do,have more energy, have more
focus, have more resilience, tobe able to do more things that
(22:57):
they care about for as long asthey can.
Judy Oskam (22:59):
I love that.
I love that.
Glen, thanks so much forjoining me today.
I've loved learning more aboutStamina Lab and we'll put some
things in the show notes foreverybody.
Glen Lubbert (23:08):
Thank you.
Thank you, Judy, thank you forhaving me.
Judy Oskam (23:10):
Of course.
Well, thank you for listeningto Stories of Change and
Creativity.
I'll put some information aboutGlen and Stamina Lab and Tiny
Habits in the show notes.
Remember if you've got a storyto share or know someone who
does reach out to me atjudyoskam.
com and please leave a reviewif you can.
I appreciate it.
(23:30):
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam and I loveinterviewing people who inspire,
educate and motivate.
On this episode, I'm sharing myconversation with Glen Lubbert.
Glen Lubbert (00:15):
Sleep isn't everything, but it impacts
everything.
Judy Oskam (00:20):
Glen is the founder of Stamina Lab.
He is a data-driven sleep andhealth coach and you'll hear why
he followed that path.
He's a technology entrepreneur,a certified sleep and behavior
design expert, and he's trainedin mindfulness nervous system
management, and he uses tinyhabits and thrive global
(00:41):
methodologies.
I think when you hear ourconversation, you'll understand
that innovation is part of hisDNA.
Glen Lubbert (00:49):
You know what's interesting?
I was just here in South bySouthwest is happening right now
to record this, and one of thespeakers mentioned something
that really resonated with me,which is entrepreneurship is a
trauma response and I thoughtand I found that really
fascinating and I went back andI started reading more about
(01:11):
that.
You know, it's some type ofsome point in your childhood
that this childhood is traumatic.
But in general, but you knowsome key things, what happened
that I think helped?
You know key things.
What happened that I thinkhelped?
You know it builds resilience,it builds creativity, um, it
brings self-reliance.
(01:31):
It is, uh lawful risk tolerance.
Um, because of this responseand I was like, oh, that's a
unique way of uh of doing,thinking about it, um, that is a
way to productively, um workthrough that.
Uh, trauma and being anentrepreneur, I really believe
(01:57):
is the ultimate self-improvementprogram because you're out
there all the time on the edgeon your own, because you're out
there all the time, on the edge,on your own, on your own,
hopefully, you can becollaborating with some
fantastic people and, yes,you're on your own and that it
is something that forcesconstant reflection, adjustment,
(02:22):
growth, and so I think that'sprobably why I have been
attracted to being anentrepreneur and continue to be.
Judy Oskam (02:31):
Well, if you use that sort of descriptor, what
was the trauma that led you tothat?
And I ask that because I grewup with a father who was an
entrepreneur and my brother isan entrepreneur and I went the
other way because I wanted alittle more security and I
wanted I saw what, what theywere going through and I wanted
(02:55):
a career and I started intelevision.
So I was in media at first andthen I thought I want to get at
the university where I can bewhat I call an entrepreneur and
I could be entrepreneurial, butinside a structure.
So that was sort of my deal.
But I grew up seeing my dad doa lot of risk, a lot of reward,
(03:18):
sometimes not so rewarding.
But what was it with you?
What was it?
A family?
Glen Lubbert (03:28):
There was definitely um.
There's as a point where I, myfamily, moved from way before I
started high school, moved froma really amazing urban uh or not
.
So I mean like um, mid-urban,like uh, that just a great
(03:48):
beautiful place.
That was uh fantastic forgrowing up, lots of kids around,
and we just had a really greatuh time up until that point.
And then we we, for family umreasons meaning someone had a
past, like my grandparents, andwe had had to go help support
them we moved from that place toa much more rural area, and so
(04:11):
I was just starting high schoolin an area I didn't know anybody
, and so I think that I alwaysgo back to that as like oh, this
is the point where I'm like, oh, I, I have to, I want to be in
control of, um, the direction oflife.
I have to uh you have to be thedriver.
Judy Oskam (04:29):
You have to drive that because rather than things
happening to you.
Glen Lubbert (04:32):
no, it's, it's that, that's a narrative that,
uh, you know that that propelledme and I've, you know, come to
recognize that that actually wasone as a great gift because of
all the things that I've donewith so, it with.
So it's not a point where Ilook back as a negative point of
view, but you process it, youprocess it, and I think that is
(04:55):
one of the key areas.
Judy Oskam (04:57):
Oh sure, and I have a good friend who's an
entrepreneur and she's adesigner and a chair designer,
and she would much rather workthose 80 plus hours for herself
than for somebody else.
So I think there's something.
It's not that you have your ownbusiness and it's easy and you
can do whatever you want.
You're you're solelyresponsible for everything.
(05:20):
So, I think that's fantastic.
And then what?
What led you up to creatingStamina Lab?
Glen Lubbert (05:29):
Yeah.
So I had a really great successearly on in this, so I was able
to start several companies andwhat happened was through that
process, you know, and I came toa point where I was getting
burned out.
And one of the things I advisea lot of young entrepreneurs on
(05:51):
is the fact that you aren't yourcompany.
You have multitudes, you'remuch larger than your company,
but when you're 25 years old andyou're putting everything you
can into this, you are thecompany, but you have to play
that jujitsu act of being, giveit your everything and being at
everything and, at the same time, be able to uh have identity
(06:12):
beyond that or above that.
And so I got to that pointwhere I was burned out.
I was traveling a lot back andforth across the coast we have
offices on both coasts andconstantly changing my uh time,
so then changing my sleep, andthen it got to a point where I
couldn't sleep, for I mean, Iwas able to rest but not really
(06:33):
get the deep REM sleep I needed,deep end REM sleep I needed.
So there was a month where Iwas like that and I could feel
it just like dragging on mybrain, and I went to my
management team and said listen,I haven't been sleeping and
it's affecting my ability tomake decisions.
I need some help, not in themhelping me with my challenge,
(06:54):
but for them to be more on topof the things for the company.
And that's when I put sleep atthe center of my life and said,
ok, now we have to buildeverything around being able to
maintain good, positivecircadian health.
So therefore, like I said, it'snot it's not everything, but it
impacts everything.
So it's in a habit.
(07:14):
From a way it's a keystonehabit, and so it's one habit
that, if you do that, it has aripple effect to every part of
your life.
And so we're always looking forthose keystone habits where we
can put those in a place whileeverything else becomes easier.
And then that was my journey toget to to get to that place
where I put sleep at the centerof my life, but then also to
(07:37):
know if I'm going to startanother company.
I really want to be really goodat being able to put these big
positive behaviors into my world, and so that also got.
Where I got to.
Tiny Habits is we're both TinyHabits coaches.
Judy Oskam (07:52):
Right and kind of explain kind of how Tiny Habits
helps you with this and and howyou use that within stamina lab.
Glen Lubbert (08:01):
Yeah, so we have, so I use it all the time.
I mean it's it's, it's built,baked into some of the things I
do and, and you know, make doingthat small tiny habit, no
matter what uh, that you'll doit, no matter how tired you are
or how, um, how much otherthings are going on.
You know you can have do morethan what you want you're going
(08:23):
to do.
And so, for example, my morningI have a morning movement
routine and that, so that isstarts with um, some, some uh
squats, and just do two squatsis the tiny habit.
Um, after I, after I get out ofthe shower, and so then it goes
on to a whole bunch of movementactivities.
(08:43):
But when I'm pressed for timeor I'm tired, I said south by
south is going, south bysouthwest is going on this week
here in austin, so there's somany things happening all day
into the evening and so the thethis morning I was like, okay, I
, I don't have time and I'm justgoing to be able to just do the
two squats instead of the wholefour minute more minute routine
, and that's uh satisfying um,and that still gets my day
(09:08):
started off on the right foot tobe able to execute and prepare.
So that's just one example ofhow I use tiny habits and how we
use it in Stamina.
Lab is all over the place.
So we have a two-week bootcampprogram that people go through
to work on their sleep.
(09:30):
You know we're not fixingeverything, but they're moving
in the right direction and wecan see, through the wearable
data, noticeable improvements inlowering their heart rate,
which is a sign of recovery, andincreasing their heart rate
variability, which is a directsign of the health of their
vagus nerve and their nervoussystem, which is a direct sign
of the health of their vagusnerve and their nervous system,
(09:50):
which is also a sign of recovery.
And nearly everyone who goesthrough the program that
participates.
It's just an easy two weeks andwhen we teach tiny habits and
they pick one or two tiny habitsto work on for their sleep and
sort of see, oh wow, this has afantastic impact.
Judy Oskam (10:08):
Well, what's the biggest challenge that people
come to you with?
They just say I'm burned out orI just can't sleep, and then
how do you take that and drilldown into really giving them
some actionable steps or habits,if you will?
Glen Lubbert (10:23):
Yeah, the biggest thing is I'm having trouble
falling asleep at night, or Iwake up in the middle of the
night and I can't go back tosleep.
So those are the two mainchallenges that people have, and
really what they're looking foris to have more energy, to be
able to have more focus, just tobe able to enjoy the day.
Sleep impacts everything youknow, from your long-term health
(10:48):
to your mental health today,your mood, your enjoyment of
life, and so really what wedrill down to is asking what
difference will having thatimproving your sleep make?
What difference will those youknow?
Obviously they will have moreenergy and focus, but what
difference will that energy andfocus have for you?
(11:11):
And I'll be able to, you know,get all the things at work I
want to have done, be able tohave the energy to be with my
family, my loved ones, myfriends, um, be able to be
present for them and and be amodel for the people around me.
So I think that's really reallydrilling down to what
difference is going to make, andjust to continue to ask what
(11:31):
else, what else, what else?
or what difference is going tomake, just to really get, make
it just a full picture with alltheir, all their senses and and
from there then saying all right, well then, let's pick.
Let's pick a workout, tinyhabit that can improve your
sleep and, as we know, you knowit's starting with something
(11:51):
that they're going to enjoy.
Let's pick something that youenjoy doing and that gets you
moving into the belief that youcan improve your sleep.
Judy Oskam (12:00):
Give us an example of a sleep-related enjoyable
habit.
Glen Lubbert (12:10):
Well, one of the ones I really like to suggest a
lot of times is to put yourphone to bed before you go to
sleep, ideally an hour or twohours.
So we set an alarm to wake upin the morning.
So setting an alarm in theevening that says, hey, this is
time for my phone to go to bed,and put the phone to bed, you
can tuck it in the bed and leavethe whole thing.
(12:30):
Good night phone.
And this has a really bigimpact because it reduces the
amount of blue light you'regoing to see and blue light is
telling your circadian clock hey, it's still daylight, don't
start producing melatonin.
That helps me fall asleep.
And it also takes away anyalerts that are coming in which
(12:55):
could release cortisol again tokeep you alert and awake.
And and it's signals to yourbody to start the wind down
process.
And ideally, if you can takeaway any of the electronics at
this at this point, whatever itis for you in the evening.
And I also hear often here like, oh well, once I put my phone
away and turn off my TV, what isthere to do?
And so then it's like oh well,maybe then I'll do some light
(13:19):
reading or stretching becausethere's not much else to do.
And that guy says, well, Iguess I'll go to bed.
Judy Oskam (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then waking up also is anissue too right For some people
if they don't sleep all night.
Glen Lubbert (13:32):
I know it has been for me, so yeah, so our coaches
I have a team of coaches thatdo the deep coaching and the key
part of it is using cognitivebehavioral therapy for insomnia
and that's managing, includingmanaging your nervous system,
(13:52):
and working on behavioral change, as we just talked about,
including tiny habits, and soone of the things that happens
we have a three month program tohelp improve your sleep, and
one of the things that happensabout two to three weeks into
the program is it gets worse andthen it gets better, because
one of the things you want toreally work on is waking you up
(14:15):
at the same time every day.
And so getting up, and even ifyou're tired, even if you didn't
go to bed until 3 am and youneed to get up at 7 o'clock 3 am
, and you, you need to get up umat seven o'clock yeah you're,
you're going to be tired, that,but you're going to then you're
going to start to feel tired andgo to sleep earlier because you
don't want to get into beduntil you do feel sleepy.
(14:37):
So at the beginning, when we'readjusting your circadian clock,
you're not going to feel,you're still not going to feel
sleepy in the evening becauseyou haven't had that uhness, the
sleep pressure happening yet.
And so you're like, okay, I'mstill staying up, still staying
up later, and then slowly youcan see how, by waking up at the
(14:58):
same time, you start buildingthat sleep pressure earlier and
earlier.
It doesn't matter um, whatmatters is, when you wake up in
the morning is getting sunlightas early as you can, and outdoor
sunlight, uh, specificallybecause it is magnitudes more um
impactful for setting thatcircadian clock, and when that
(15:21):
master clock, when it sees thatsunlight, it says okay, in 14 to
16 hours we're going to startproducing melatonin to allow the
body to start falling asleep,and that 14 to 16 hours can
start any time when you finallyget outside.
So if you don't get outsidetill 11 am, it's 14 to 16 hours
(15:41):
later.
So that's where we start.
With what time do you want towake up in the morning?
Okay, I want to get up thistime.
Okay.
So then this starts the wholething up.
When you wake up, when you gooutside, when you eat, when you
exercise all these, every cellin our body it has its own
little clock, but they're allbased on that master clock, and
so by by working on sleep,you're really working on a
(16:04):
person's whole day.
Judy Oskam (16:06):
I love that and and I've read, it's 10 minutes of
sunlight in the morning.
Is that correct or do you knowI?
Glen Lubbert (16:11):
With Tiny Habits, I would say get outside for a
minute, you know, just to getout, yeah, just to get out.
And, and you know, when you getoutside for a minute, just like
any other tiny habit, you'relike oh well, it's nice out here
, well, maybe I can pair it withdrinking my tea, or, depending
on your weather, you might onlybe able to get out for a minute,
but you're getting that minuteand it's something that sets
(16:36):
that clock to start.
Or if you have a pet, that'sanother great reason to get
outside in the morning.
Actually, go out with the petwhen it goes outside.
Judy Oskam (16:44):
Sure, I love that.
Well, how has it worked for younow that you've started a
company around a real need,which was one of your needs and
challenges?
How are you doing with withsleep, I have to ask.
Glen Lubbert (16:59):
So I think that's a great point to make.
Is that, uh and this includesall the coaches on our team say
the same thing?
Is that even sleep coaches orsleep experts have trouble
sleeping occasionally becauselife happens, stress happens and
you know, our nervous systemsget, uh, get challenged and and
(17:20):
put into that sympathetic fightor flight state and sometimes
it's really a in a state thattakes a lot to bring it down.
If you know, if you are stillmanaging it and you're still
doing the same things, it's,it's, it's a.
It's a.
I don't want to say wellbeing isa process, it's not a state you
(17:43):
get to and so you have to get apractice.
You have to do the practiceconstantly and and even even
when you know all the tools andyou have great tools in your
toolkit, you still have to dothe practice.
Now I would say that I'm muchbetter at getting back to sleep
or falling asleep when I wake upand um, and recognizing, when
(18:08):
I'm not falling asleep rightaway, to get back out of bed and
wait until I'm sleepy, um, toget into bed.
So if it takes an hour or twoor longer and I'm not not
getting to bed when I normallywant to, and I'll know that, hey
, I'm going to be sleepy thenext day, but not feeling
anxious about it.
And I think that's really whereit comes in is that people start
to get in this program wherethey feel anxious about hey, I'm
(18:33):
in bed, but if I'm not fallingasleep, I'm not going to be able
to perform my best in themorning, and therefore it
perpetuates and you can't fallasleep.
And meanwhile now your body'sassociating with being anxious
with being in bed and thereforethen, as it leads up to it, you
start thinking oh, I'm going togo to bed, will I be able to
fall asleep?
(18:53):
And this is how people get intothe challenge that we help, as
Samuel and I we help to solve.
Judy Oskam (19:02):
Well, yeah, and you guys are using science to do
that.
It's all science-backedinformation that helps them
understand why, and they're notbeating themselves up all the
time about that.
Glen Lubbert (19:14):
so yeah, and I think, and I think that it's why
it's like to say that, hey,even sleep experts have trouble
sleeping sometimes they don'tbeat yourself up.
be kind to yourself.
It's a key part of behavior.
Design is to be kind toyourself and know that, even if
you're not, even if you're notgoing to get a full night's
sleep, that you want to have andmaybe have something important
(19:35):
to do the next day.
I always like to equate it withathletes or musicians or
somebody who has a performancethe next day.
And I'm a former Division Oneathlete and I still participate
in races now and the nightbefore a race, I don't sleep
(19:55):
well.
None of my running friendssleep well the night before the
race.
But yeah, we perform reallywell and get our PRs, and so
what's with that?
Well, that's what I think toremember.
That lesson is that, yeah, it'sokay, you'll still be able to
perform really well.
Don't get anxious about it.
You'll be part of the topperformer, just like top
(20:16):
performing athletes, and thenext day you'll feel tired and
you'll go to sleep earlier.
Judy Oskam (20:22):
Exactly, exactly.
And I think it helps to givepeople permission to just relax
about it or let them make achange here or there.
And that's what I love aboutTiny Habits is, if one way isn't
working, you just iterate andgo the other, and that's sort of
right along the same path thatyou've done as an entrepreneur.
Glen Lubbert (20:46):
Yeah, I think having an experimenter's mindset
and that's where which werestamina, lab uh, comes from.
We obviously having this energyand longevity for the stamina,
but knowing it's a lab, you're alab and you are you.
You are the lab and you areyour own experiment.
Um, and we also like to say youare your own best coach.
Judy Oskam (21:06):
Yeah.
Glen Lubbert (21:07):
And so that that that's kind of sums up the
philosophy of how to approach uhboth, uh sleep challenges, but
also uh life in general,entrepreneurship, all exactly,
exactly well, you know I I'm agallup strengths coach and I
always like to ask people whatthey think their, their top
strength is.
Judy Oskam (21:28):
And as an entrepreneur, I know you have.
I can think of a couple rightnow.
But what?
What do you think is the?
Glen Lubbert (21:34):
is your top strength that helps you keep
going yeah, I say, I would saylots of times I say creativity,
innovation and creativity is akey in there and that's being
curious and being open-minded,having that growth mindset,
having a stress is enhancingmindset.
So that way, when stress comes,it comes to you, it actually
(21:55):
can help you grow.
And looking at it from thatperspective, I know whenever I'm
stuck and I feel like I'mconstricted because I'm like, oh
, this is the path that I haveplanned to take, but as soon as
I do a protocol, go for a walk,take some breaths to open up
physically, open up your brainand your body, and to open up to
(22:18):
possibilities and creativity.
Judy Oskam (22:21):
I love that and look ahead to the future of Stamina
Lab.
Where do you see Stamina Lab ina couple of years?
Where do you see you in acouple of years?
Are you going to be doing aspinoff company from this one,
or what's next for you?
Glen Lubbert (22:35):
Well, we're just getting really just getting
started here with Stamina Lab,and my hope is to be able to
have many, many sleep coachesand health coaches within our
organization helping and healthcoaches within our organization
helping thousands of peopleimprove their behavior to have,
like I said, to be able to do,have more energy, have more
focus, have more resilience, tobe able to do more things that
(22:57):
they care about for as long asthey can.
Judy Oskam (22:59):
I love that.
I love that.
Glen, thanks so much forjoining me today.
I've loved learning more aboutStamina Lab and we'll put some
things in the show notes foreverybody.
Glen Lubbert (23:08):
Thank you.
Thank you, Judy, thank you forhaving me.
Judy Oskam (23:10):
Of course.
Well, thank you for listeningto Stories of Change and
Creativity.
I'll put some information aboutGlen and Stamina Lab and Tiny
Habits in the show notes.
Remember if you've got a storyto share or know someone who
does reach out to me atjudyoskam.
com and please leave a reviewif you can.
I appreciate it.
(23:30):
Thanks for listening.
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