January 6, 2025 • 37 mins
What if a career change could unlock your creativity and transform your life? That's what happened to Content Creator and Podcaster Kelsey Graves. She is the creator and host of the Trip Tales podcast.
Kelsey inspires listeners with her journey from marketing to content creation. During our conversation, Kelsey showcases the power of embracing change while nurturing creativity. She shares her experiences of manifesting dreams, family travel adventures, and navigating the gig economy. Kelsey encourages others to take baby steps towards their passions.
In this episode, you will learn:
• How Kelsey pivoted her career from advertising to social media
• The importance of transferable skills
• How to find your passion and make a career work for your lifestyle
• The significance of manifestation resulting in a memorable trip to a Taylor Swift concert
• How you can use social media to engage authentically with your audience
• The importance of taking baby steps to move your career forward
• Social media tips to promote your online brand
Kelsey's Bio:
Kelsey Graves is the host of the Trip Tales Podcast, where she shares real travel stories and inspires her engaged community of travel lovers. A mom of three and a seasoned travel content creator, Kelsey has spent 12 years turning her passion for exploration into a thriving career. With a dedicated following on Instagram at @kelsey_graves, she shares vacation destinations, family travel tips, and viral travel Reels that drive real bookings and vacation plans. Kelsey's work has lead her to partner with top brands like JW Marriott, Dollywood, and Dagne Dover, making her a trusted voice in the travel industry.
Kelsey Graves website:
https://www.triptalespodcast.com/
You can listen to our Amsterdam Taylor Swift trip interview here. Kelsey interviews me and Wendy Conklin of Chair Whimsy about our adventure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Judy Oskam (00:02):
Have you ever wanted to pivot your career, make a
change, take a leap into yourtrue passion, maybe go a
different direction?
Well, this episode is for you.
Welcome to Stories of Changeand Creativity.
I'm your host, Judy Oskam.
I'm a university professor atTexas State University and I
(00:22):
love interviewing interestingpeople about their creative
journey.
On this episode, I talk withcontent creator and seasoned
traveler, Kelsey Graves.
Kelsey is the host of the TripTales podcast, where she shares
real travel stories and inspiresher engaged community of travel
(00:43):
lovers travel lovers like me.
Kelsey and her husband have abusy life with three kids.
She spent 12 years turning herpassion for exploration into a
thriving career.
During our conversation, wetalk about why it's okay to
change directions.
We discuss Kelsey's path topodcasting and how manifesting
(01:06):
her best life led her to theTaylor Swift concert.
Well, I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Kelsey Graves (01:14):
Well, it's definitely quite a zigzag of a
story, but I will shorten it too.
I started in advertising andmarketing.
That was like my first career,real job out of college.
I was in Chicago and I workedfor OMD, which was a big media
buying agency, and so I kind oflearned the digital marketing
(01:35):
world there.
And then I moved into more ofthe digital magazine space.
So when I started there wasn'tas much social media happening a
little bit here and there butthere were still magazines, but
they were turning to online.
So I was working for BetterHomes and Gardens online,
fitness Magazine online and Iwas selling ad space on those
(01:58):
websites to big companies likeGeneral Mills and Kimberly-Clark
.
So I liked all that quite a bitI really did.
But I've always had this contentcreator side in me, even before
.
When I was a kid, I would beconstantly videoing things or
taking pictures of things andmaking them look really pretty,
almost editorial.
So I was always trying tocapture stories in some way and
(02:22):
put it out there in a creativeway.
I just didn't know what to dowith that and I don't think
really colleges back then didn'tknow what to do with that.
They're doing a much better jobnow with lots of different
classes.
But back then, you know, I justkind of majored in marketing and
journalism and my classes werelike, here's how you write a
radio spot and it's like what amI going to do with that?
I mean maybe I would havegotten into radio, but and it's
(02:44):
like what am I going to do withthat?
I mean, maybe I would havegotten into radio, but anyhow,
when I had my first child 12years ago, I decided I wanted to
have some flexibility.
I didn't want.
I was traveling a ton in theseonline sales roles and you know,
up at 5 AM off to New York city, and that was super fun for my
twenties, for sure.
But when I decided to have akid I was like, okay, I want to
stay, have the flexibility to behome, but still do something
(03:07):
creative and make some moneyfrom it honestly.
And so I started a websitecalled we Heart Parties and this
was my first foray into thecontent creation world.
I loved parties.
I loved super themed firstbirthday parties, baby showers,
bridal showers, just all thatcreativity that came with
(03:28):
parties.
This was before Pinterest.
I guess, if I was a little bitsmarter, I could have created a
Pinterest, but I just created awebsite where I was sharing all
these party ideas.
It was kind of like a blogstyle.
But what I did is I created acomponent which was really hard
I had a web developer help mewhere other people could upload
(03:48):
their parties too, so it wasn'tjust me trying to create this
content weekly, other peoplecould upload it and then they
had their own little slideshowof this was my son's first
birthday party, monster jam,whatever and so it became a
little platform and community ofall these party people sharing
their ideas.
That's where I launched myInstagram account from.
(04:09):
If you scroll way back in myInstagram account, it's party
ideas, right, right.
So I did that for a while,really loved it, kind of got my
feet wet in how to grow anonline account, how to take
pictures and create content, andthen I just got burnt out from
parties.
I was working with brands.
I was doing party scapes forOriental Trading Company or
(04:30):
Chinette, the disposable platecompany.
So I was doing some sponsoredstuff and making some money, but
that was a lot of stuff in myhouse, a lot of just junk.
At the end of the day, Iactually started feeling so
wasteful because I would get allthis stuff shipped to me.
I would set up a whole partyand then it's like what are you
(04:50):
doing?
I still remember that it was aPeppa Pig party that pushed me
over the edge.
I was like no more parties andmy husband also was like this is
a lot Like we just had boxesand boxes and you know, things
just run its course.
And that's something I wantedto talk about today is not being
afraid to say, okay, I'm goingto go in a different direction
(05:12):
and it's okay.
And even though I built thisaudience around parties, you
know it's okay to say I'm donewith parties and I'm done with
this account.
So I slowly just kind ofstopped the party content, kind
of just kept it up withlifestyle stuff.
And what I really started to dothen was I had a friend approach
me and say, hey, would you everdo social media and all this
(05:33):
stuff you're doing for a companyLike for us?
They had a really cool boutiquein a super adorable town that I
lived in at the time calledNewberry Port, massachusetts, up
in Boston, and so I said, sure,I'll try it.
I've never done it for somebodyelse before, but that worked
really well and I did that forabout five years where I there
(05:53):
was a point where I was runningfrom six to 10 other businesses
Instagram accounts, facebookaccounts, all their content.
I would go in and do coolvideos and make all the fun
little TikToks and that was likethe most lucrative time of my
career, because people need thatand, as you know, it's a
full-time job to try to keep upwith the social media stuff, to
(06:15):
try to promote your own business.
For some people it's really hardto talk about their own
business and brand.
For some reason, they don'tlike to brag on themselves.
It doesn't feel natural.
So for someone else to come inand say, tell me about your
awesome business.
I'm going to do this super coolvideo for you.
People really like that.
So that was a great time in mycareer.
It just got to be a lot.
(06:38):
Social media never sleeps.
People's businesses never sleep.
So I'm constantly getting textshey, can you post this?
Hey, we're going to have a saletomorrow.
Oh, my gosh, it's a snow day.
We're closed.
Can you post this?
And I did.
But it got to a point againwhere I was just like this is
feeling like too much.
So I slowly unwinded that a bit.
I still do a couple companieshere and there seasonally for
(07:00):
different things, just becauseI'm so ingrained that it's like,
okay, it'd be easier for me tojust do this for you than hire
somebody else.
But that is a great way to makemoney if you're good at doing
that sort of thing.
But so, to make a long storylong I guess, I then finally
started looking at what wasworking on my social media
(07:20):
accounts.
What am I passionate about?
What do I really want to honein here on and narrow down my
niche?
And I started looking back atsome of the social media stuff
I'd done, and it was alwaystravel.
It was always our family trips,our travel tips, and I wasn't
necessarily a travel expert orin the travel world at that
point.
(07:41):
But I thought, what if I narrowdown super narrow, because
everything I read and heard waslike get as narrow as possible
when you're trying to createsome sort of content and I just
jumped into travel full about ayear ago, maybe two years ago on
the social media, and inFebruary of this year for the
podcast, and it just kind ofhappened.
(08:03):
Sometimes I think things cometo us more than we chase them
and I just got this idea.
That was like I love listeningto podcasts about travel.
There's really none out therefor me right now that was doing
super relatable family travelstuff that's like not
necessarily here's how to flyaround the world on points that
stuff's awesome too, but just areal story like here's where we
went, here's how to fly aroundthe world on points that stuff's
(08:24):
awesome too, but just a realstory, like here's where we went
, here's where we stayed.
So I just started taking thebaby steps and learning how to
create a podcast which, as youknow, hundreds of thousands of
people are doing it.
But at the very beginning it'sa little like how do I actually
get this on Apple Podcasts?
It takes a minute to get it allset up.
(08:46):
But then I just did it and Ilaunched it and it's going well
and people are resonating withit and it's called Trip Tales,
so it's just about people'strips.
If you want to go to Florida,maybe you'll get an idea about a
great resort, but it's morphedinto something else now, too,
called.
We have a Trip Fails series,which is super fun because there
are people who have shared hey,this one trip actually went
horribly wrong for me andthey're really fun and funny
(09:08):
episodes and it helps people notmake the same mistakes.
Exactly, exactly.
That's kind of me in a nutshellwhich is a lot of stuff.
Judy Oskam (09:16):
I love that, and I love how you talked about
transitioning and being open tochange, because this podcast is
about change and creativity andyou've got both right.
So I think that's great.
But you've got three kids.
I have three kids, yes, and ahappy marriage.
You say yes.
Kelsey Graves (09:31):
I love that there's a lot going on at home
as well, which is fun because Ican pop off a podcast and go to
the school lunch if there's anevent going on and then come
back home and dive back into mythings.
So I do have a lot offlexibility, which I think comes
in the creative world, and I dobelieve I may have some sort of
(09:51):
a undiagnosed ADD.
I think all creatives mightthat I'm figuring out now in my
forties, but I do just kind oflike bounce around, like my
brain just kind of bouncesaround, but it works out at the
end of the day and I get all mystuff done, yeah, and that
energy and that empowers you tokeep going and you find another
path or you find a new story.
Judy Oskam (10:07):
And if you're like me, I mean I found you through
Buzzsprout.
Both of us use that as ourhosting site and there was a
exchange some ideas.
So Wendy and I were on yourpodcast and I appreciate that
and I love how you're open tokind of telling all these
different types of stories.
Kelsey Graves (10:29):
Yes, you guys should go listen to her episode.
Judy's episode on my podcast isabout her and her best friend's
mother-daughter trip toAmsterdam to see Taylor Swift,
which is just such a fun episodeit's fun.
It's fun because you learn tipsabout traveling to Amsterdam,
which is helpful for a lot ofpeople, but then you also get
the Taylor Swift component,which is fun as well.
Judy Oskam (10:48):
Yeah Well, speaking of Taylor Swift, so let's talk
about that a little bit.
You told us when we did ourconversation oh, I'd really love
to go to the concert.
Where are you on that?
What have you done?
Have you had a chance to seeTaylor I?
Kelsey Graves (11:02):
went.
I went.
It was so exciting.
So when they were on, I meanI'm a huge Swifty.
I've loved all the albums, Ilove Taylor Swift.
I've tried to get tickets whenshe was in Nashville.
It was just obviously soexpensive and so complicated and
I was telling them in theirepisode I really want to try to
go to this Heiress tour, but Idon't know if it's going to
happen.
Don't know if it's going tohappen.
(11:27):
Well, this is kind of a funstory.
I do believe a bit inmanifestation and affirmations
and speaking things that youwant to happen, because words
are powerful and it can changeyour brain chemistry and it can
just move things in differentdirections.
It can.
I totally agree with you and itkeeps you open for the world
right, yes, and so in August2023, so well over a year ago I
wrote in my notes app I went tothe Taylor Swift Eras concert in
(11:50):
Indianapolis.
It was amazing.
I even snagged a t-shirt.
I have a screenshot of it.
I wrote that down in August2023.
Well, you know, fast forward awhole year.
I still haven't gone to theEras tour.
She's coming to Indianapolis.
I'm from Indianapolis, born andraised.
I live in Nashville, soIndianapolis is just a short
four to five hour drive.
(12:10):
My parents are there.
They have a house there that Icould stay in.
I was just like I've got to getto this concert.
Tickets are $2,000 to $3,000.
I could not make that happenand it was the weekend she was
coming.
It was Thursday or Friday ofthe weekend.
She was going to be inIndianapolis and I posted on my
Instagram last call putting thisout in the universe If anyone
even comes across a singleticket, I will drive up and go
(12:32):
by myself.
I won't even put on a cuteoutfit, I will just get to the
venue.
Well, my sweet dad who's one ofthe most amazing people on the
planet and really I think that'swhere I get my creativity and
my spontaneity and myrisk-taking from him, because
(12:52):
he's always been an entrepreneur.
He always is out to kind of dothe fun thing.
But I wasn't expecting him tobuy me Taylor Swift tickets by
any means.
Well, he started kind ofgetting a little bit of this
FOMO, I think this huge stars.
In my town I've got a lot offriends whose kids are going
looking around and he's reallybusy.
He runs two companies so hewasn't even it wasn't on his
radar to look for tickets.
(13:14):
Well, he is starting to text mysister and I.
My sister lives in Boise, idaho, and he's going hey, I think I
can get two tickets, allie,could you fly in.
And then he texts back oh mygosh, I lost them.
I mean, you tried to gettickets, you know.
That's why we went to Amsterdam.
Yeah, it was a complicated thing.
And then he texts us out of theblue and says I bought four
(13:35):
tickets.
And I am just like, is thisreal?
Is it all still feels like adream.
So I'm like, oh my gosh, I'vegot to find something sparkly
and get my 12-year-old out ofschool and we're driving to
Indianapolis and my sister'slike I got to get a flight from
Boise, idaho, to Indianapolis,but we'll fly anywhere for
Taylor Swift.
And so we all get toIndianapolis and it's a
(13:55):
whirlwind and we change into oursparkles, we put glitter on our
face and we have a bunch.
It was the most happy, joyful,lovely experience.
The police officers were thereon horses that had friendship
bracelets draped around theirnecks, gorgeous, huge friendship
bracelets.
(14:16):
The police officers wereexchanging friendship bracelets
with people.
Everybody was, you know,dressed to the nines and
whatever they felt the mostswifty and comfortable in, and
we had the time of our livesjust singing every song.
And I have all these videos andit honestly still feels like a
dream, because it's such an epicshow that really feels like
once in a lifetime.
(14:36):
And the biggest joke was my dadsaw the Beatles for his first
concert when he was young andhe's never forgotten that and
he's never stopped talking aboutthat.
So my daughter and my sister'sdaughter first concert now was
Taylor Swift, which he was apart of, and we were like that's
amazing.
You can tell that for the restof your life and this might be
(14:59):
your first concert, might beyour best concert for the rest
of your life.
So the bar was set a little high, Sure sure concert for the rest
of your life.
Judy Oskam (15:06):
So the bar was set a little high.
Sure, sure, I love that.
That's amazing.
Well, and, and you know, Kelsey, what does that say about
taking the chance and justputting, putting the word out
there and then being ready tojust pick up and go?
Kelsey Graves (15:16):
Yes, I believe that that is part of
manifestation, all the things Ithink Oprah once said.
You know, there's no luck.
It's where preparation meetsopportunity, and it's true.
Like you know, I was prepared,I had a sparkly dress, I was
ready to drive.
I'm not afraid to dropeverything and go.
Honey, husband, you're incharge of these two and we're
(15:37):
going to go this way for just 24hours and, yeah, I do think
putting stuff out there and justbeing ready for what's next,
whether that's a career decisionor an amazing experience, you
know, like a concert, that's afun way to live.
Judy Oskam (15:53):
Well, and the idea of experiential learning and
going with the experience.
You really go there for theexperience.
Kelsey Graves (16:01):
It's more than just listening to music right ?
Agreed, and I'm big with thaton my kids, especially with the
travel stuff.
It's like you got listening tomusic Agreed, and I'm big with
that on my kids, especially withthe travel stuff.
It's like you got to go placesto see things.
You've got to go places to seehow other people live.
It opens parts of your brainthat you just can't do if you
don't go and see and experience,which is a huge part of why I
love to travel.
(16:22):
Our kids were littler for thelongest time and we did the
typical go down to Florida, aneasy trip, meet up with the
grandparents.
And now it's like, oh my gosh,they're a little older and I'm
like, okay, we're doing New Yorkcity.
And then I'm like, what's next?
We're going to go out of thecountry.
Like I want them to see theworld and experience things.
Judy Oskam (16:39):
I love that.
Well, and in my program atTexas State we started the
education abroad and the studyabroad because we think it's so
valuable to get students intoanother culture, to see and just
learn.
Some of our students had neverbeen on a plane before, so my
faculty would work with them on.
(16:59):
What do you do at the airport?
You walk through this securitything.
How do you do that?
But once they go, it changestheir world you know, yes, 100%.
Kelsey Graves (17:09):
And that's something that I'm doing now
with my oldest, who's 12, is,anytime we travel now I'll go.
Okay, you get us to the gate,like I'll go, where do we go now
?
And I'll let her lead usthrough security, because that's
a big part of travel and youknow they'll know how to travel
because we're taking them allthese places.
But it is fun to say why don'tyou try to get us there?
Do we need to take the littleplane train?
Do we need to?
(17:29):
And let them lead the way,which is really fun to see as
well.
Judy Oskam (17:38):
I think that's great .
And my youngest daughter's 23and she just got back from a
solo trip to Japan and she founda really cheap ticket from LA
and so she booked everything,did a solo trip.
She met a friend over there butshe didn't stay.
She stayed solo.
I was worried the whole time,but you know, I mean just to
give.
She had her Apple Maps, whichsometimes don't work so well in
(17:59):
foreign countries, so that wasanother thing.
But well, look ahead and talk alittle about the content that
you're looking at sharing in thefuture.
I did hear your trip fails andI think that's a great series
idea to do.
What are you looking to do andhow do you want to connect with
your audience?
Moving forward.
Kelsey Graves (18:19):
So it started as just trip tales and we're going
to have a guest on and shareabout a trip and people are
going to get practicalinformation and be able to
either go on a mini vacationduring their day hearing about
someone else's trip or they'regoing to be able to get
practical tips to plan their owntrip.
And it's slowly starting toevolve as the community is
starting to build and people arestarting to listen to more
(18:40):
episodes where it's becomingalmost more of like a
conversation.
And so, for an example, one ofmy friends reached out to me, so
this was after I shared I wenton a Disney cruise.
It didn't go so well.
It's a hilarious episode, youcan listen to it, but we got
stuck at sea for two extra daysbecause Hurricane Milton had hit
Florida and closed the Orlandoport and I wasn't so sure about
(19:03):
cruising.
We weren't sure if we were acruising family and basically
everything that could have gonewrong went wrong.
Like you can listen to theepisode, but it's motion
sickness, stomach bugs, gettingstuck at sea, not really wanting
to be on the ship anymore andjust kind of being tossed and
turned in the waves.
So, anyways, I was sharing thatstory very authentically.
I think that's where this wholething is working is being very
(19:25):
open, not painting a sugarypicture of our Disney cruise and
just making a pretty Instagramreel about it, but saying this
actually didn't work so well forus and sharing our real story.
And a fellow podcaster sent me avoice memo and she said Kelsey,
I was hooked.
I was on the edge of my seatthat entire episode.
I was like what's going tohappen next on this cruise?
(19:46):
How long are you going to bestuck here?
I loved the rawness of it somuch.
She goes.
I can't help but think youshould do trip fails, she goes,
trip tails, trip fails.
It rhymes and I was like oh mygosh, you're right, that is so
fun.
So, without knowing it, theDisney cruise episode was my
first trip fail.
Anyhow, fast forward to, one ofmy friends reaches out to me
(20:08):
and she says oh my gosh, I had atrip fail.
She goes.
We went to the super famousbeaches Turks and Caicos and she
goes.
On Instagram everybody's ravingabout it.
It's so glowy and shiny and shegoes.
We had a completely oppositeexperience.
There was all this rundownstuff.
Our room was run down.
The service was horrible.
We didn't like the food.
She goes.
We spent so much money on thistrip and we were like are we
(20:31):
missing something?
So she was like can I come onand share about it?
And I was like a little likewell, here goes my opportunity
to get a hosted stay at Beaches,Turks and Caicos.
Then I did an Instagram reelabout it, which I'd also love to
talk a bit about how I kind oflearned how to get Instagram
reels and stuff to go viral topromote whatever it is you're
(20:52):
doing.
So I do an Instagram reel.
It goes viral and people arefighting in the comments Not
negative, but I love Beaches,turks and Caicos.
We had the same experience.
Everything has run down.
No, no, no, we had the bestexperience.
We had the same experience.
Everything has run down.
No, no, no, we had the bestexperience.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, backand forth.
So I end up getting two DMs.
One is from someone I know whosaid we've been twice, we love
it and we're booked for a thirdtime.
(21:13):
She goes I was so disheartenedto hear about your friend's trip
.
And then a travel agent who hasquite a big following on
Instagram, like a prettyrenowned travel agent, gets all
worked up and voice memos me.
A 10 minute voice memo.
Oh man, this was inaccurate,this isn't right.
Blah, blah, blah and I was likeokay, I hear both of you.
Why don't we do another episode?
(21:33):
Let's keep this conversationgoing.
I would love to have you two on.
I'm not here to say no oneshould go to beaches, turks and
Caicos.
By any means, I've never beenthere, so we have a rebuttal
episode coming about.
Why Beaches, Turks and Caicosis amazing, I love it.
Where I'm at is just kind oflike everybody has their own
experiences and their ownperspectives, and people might
pick up on a certain person andsay I think I resonate with that
(21:54):
person more and I'm gonna trusttheir opinion.
Or they might say you know,these people are saying look
past the parts that are run down, there's so much beauty in this
place.
And I resonate with them.
So I'm basically open to wherethe community conversation is
ebbing and flowing.
At first I thought it was goingto be all family travel.
(22:14):
Sure, but similar to what yousaid about your daughter, one of
my best friends just took asolo trip to Paris because she
wanted to go to Paris.
It's so hard to coordinate allthe childcare with the kids and
if the husband's going to go andall the things.
She needed a breath and a break.
And she went for three nightsand I was like should?
I go somewhere alone at thismoment I know, so I want to have
(22:36):
her on to share about why shedid it.
It's a story and it's people'sexperiences and I do have
episodes booked out.
We're doing a lot of ski trip,family ski trip stuff but really
where I want to take it iswherever the conversation goes,
and we can have positives and wecan have negatives, and it's
okay because it's all just partof the story I love that.
Judy Oskam (22:58):
That's where it's headed and I love that, and I am
following you on Instagram andthat's how I was worried about
you guys.
Are you going to get off of theship?
That's how I was worried aboutyou guys.
Are you going to get off of theship?
Kelsey Graves (23:08):
I was kind of worried about that.
Judy Oskam (23:09):
Talk about your Instagram and how you are using
that to kind of communicate themessage.
Kelsey Graves (23:14):
Yes.
So Instagram has been a hugedriver for me ever since I did
the party ideas thing and I'vebuilt the audience over time.
But recently, when I reallyniched down, is when it is
taking off, and I've heard thisover and over and over again.
There's plenty of peoplesharing everything there is to
share on Instagram If you reallywant to, and there's no reason
(23:37):
to have a ton of followers.
I think people chase followersjust because that's what you do,
but you'll never be satisfiedin the amount of followers you
have.
If you're trying to build anaccount, I promise you, I tried
to get to 1K.
I got there.
Then I wanted 10K.
I got to 10K, I wanted 20K.
I'm at 50K now.
That would have been blowing mymind five years ago and now I'm
(23:59):
like well, I need to get to100K.
So I try to keep that in checkand be like it doesn't matter,
there's people with 25 million,there's people with 1,000.
That part doesn't matter.
It's speaking to your communityand providing things of value
to the people that are alreadythere.
Sometimes I say, if you thinkabout all the people who follow
you on Instagram being in a room, if there were 800 people or
(24:21):
2,000 people in a room beinglike what did you want to say?
And you're like, oh hi, that'sa lot of people that you can
talk to.
So think about those people,don't think about the people
that you're going to try to get.
So start there and then knowyour niche, niche down super far
and it only takes about sixposts nine really before your
(24:42):
Instagram feed looks superniched up because all you can
see when you go to see someone'spage is nine little photos.
So mine is very cohesive.
It's very travel.
I have the same little kind oftext box on the front of every
post so that it all looks thesame oh, if I click on this one,
I'm going to learn about theBahamas.
If I click on this one, I'mgoing to learn about a Disney
(25:03):
cruise.
But the real way right now tokind of go viral, I would say,
where you can drive someone to,you know, for our purposes, a
podcast episode is by.
I have this little theory andit's working over and over again
is you got to hook them?
So you have to say something inthe first two seconds that are
(25:23):
going to make someone stay andwatch, because people are just
swiping like this so fast.
So the hook is normally like Ican't gatekeep this resort or
you're never going to believewhat happened, or a big one
right now with the trip fails,is unpopular opinion.
Those types of things that say,oh, and you can Google.
Judy Oskam (25:43):
Yeah, you can use ChatGPT.
ChatGPT.
Yeah, yeah.
Kelsey Graves (25:46):
Yeah, and then you give them something valuable
quickly.
You don't need it's not apodcast, it's not 30 minutes you
give them.
You know I'll say most peopleout there love Disney cruises,
but for us we had a slightlydifferent experience.
If you've ever wondered ifyou're a cruising family and
then you end with a call toaction, very clear call to
(26:07):
action because you have to tellpeople what to do.
If not, they're swiping.
You know they're doom scrollingfor two hours.
You say comment below or sendthis to a friend or like this
post.
You literally tell them whatyou want them to do.
It sounds kind of silly thefirst couple of times.
You do it, but people do it.
And then my favorite tool rightnow, the best tool that's
(26:28):
working for me, is called LinkDM.
It's LinkDMcom and it's thiswebsite that allows you to.
If someone comments somethingon your post, you can set up
these little triggers where itwill automatically DM them
something.
So I say I share all about this.
(26:49):
On episode 32 of my Trip Talespodcast, comment Disney below
and I will send you the episode.
So if someone comments Disney,I've set it up through this
website that you join where ifsomeone comments Disney on that
post, they automatically getsent the link to my podcast.
You can send any link you want.
You could do a website link.
(27:10):
I do the Apple podcast linkbecause 90% of my listeners are
Apple podcast and they can clickright there and it opens in the
podcast app.
So it's just, I've seen acouple of mine go viral a Marco
Island Florida one and DisneyWish and my listens go up super
high because people are, oh,wish, okay, now it's in my phone
(27:32):
, it's in my hand, the episode,and they can click right over.
It's not, you know, I'm not likenecessarily going to gain tons
and tons of subscribers and thatpeople might listen and then
never find me again this way.
But I'm sure there's someconversion where 5% are saying,
oh, I kind of liked that episode, I'll subscribe or follow along
.
So that's kind of my littlewheel that's working right now.
(27:55):
Um, you know, podcasting istricky because for me it's fun,
it's a hobby.
There isn't a ton of income init right now, which is why I'm
still hanging on to some ofthose clients.
But I do feel like as you getmore listens and stuff and as
you gain more influence, that'swhere some of those sponsorships
can come.
When they go oh, 2000 peoplelistened to her talking about
(28:17):
not to go to beaches.
Maybe we should, you know,invite her to this place and get
a positive review.
Judy Oskam (28:24):
That's right, that's right.
Oh, those are some great tips.
And again, niching down is hard.
I tend to find a storyeverywhere I go, and that's my
challenge is oh, there's a storyhere and there.
There really is tying thecommon theme is the challenge
that I always have, but for meit's a hobby too.
But the more I talk to otherpodcasters I'm thinking maybe I
(28:46):
should niche into onlypodcasters and still do my
change and creativity focus,because that could be an
interesting target area.
Kelsey Graves (28:55):
Right.
And then other podcasters startfollowing you and want to hear
from other podcasters.
Judy Oskam (29:02):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Well, and if you look at someof your strengths, I think and I
always ask about strengths andyou've mentioned you're open for
creativity and you tend to seearound the corner and you can
anticipate trends, I'm surebecause of your background.
What are some other strengthsthat you think really kind of
(29:22):
paint the picture?
If someone were to say, tell meabout Kelsey, what would they
tell me?
Kelsey Graves (29:27):
So I thought about this and I have a couple.
And then I asked my husbandlast night and it was really
funny because he gave medifferent ones.
So I was like, oh, that's sointeresting, because sometimes
you don't know how other peoplesee you.
But my first one is that it's astrength and a weakness.
But I'm just an eternaloptimist.
I always have been Sorry,getting over a little cold here,
but if any of your listenersare familiar with the Enneagram,
(29:50):
I'm an Enneagram 7.
So everything is just likebright and shiny and sunshine
and rainbows.
Not always I do have my moments, but I'm always forward
thinking and I always believeeverything's going to work out.
So that is why I'm not afraidto start a podcast.
I just kind of go for it.
So I do think it's a strength,but it can be a weakness,
because then I, you know, I getmy family on a Disney cruise
(30:12):
that we get stuck on, becauseI'm just like it's all going to
work out.
We're going during hurricaneseason, but we're not going to
be the ones stuck during thehurricane oh guess season.
But we're not going to be theones suffering the hurt oh guess
what.
So it's a strength and aweakness, but I'm always just
assuming things are going towork out and you know, 80% of
the time it does.
I also feel like I just figurethings out.
Like some of this world ofcontent creation can be a little
(30:33):
tricky and complicated and it'sreally annoying sometimes, but
sometimes it takes a whole dayto figure out how to get your
podcast set up, so you just gotto sit in that for a minute and
figure it out and it's annoying.
But YouTube is your best friendand there's someone out there
who has created a video on howto do just about anything these
(30:53):
days, and so I think a strengthis that I just figure it out by
myself.
Strength is that I just figuredout by myself.
My husband said he thinks mybiggest strength in this whole
world is that I'm very curiousand I'm naturally curious, and
so that lends itself well to apodcast, because you'll say,
wait, tell me more about that.
Or like I really, really wantto know about people's trips
(31:14):
because I might plan it or Ijust want to hear and get to
know somebody.
So I think curiosity is a bigstrength.
And then he joked and he saidyou've always been a talker.
And I'm like that is true, I'ma talker.
I created three talking talkerchildren, so there's a lot of
talking in our family, which Ilove, and that is super fun for
(31:35):
me to be going down this podcastroad and I get to talk and
every time I get off one I'm inthe best mood because I just
talk to someone amazing, exactly.
Judy Oskam (31:45):
So, yeah, I would say those are some of my
strengths have you ever thoughtabout getting your kids on the
podcast and asking them?
From a kid perspective, that isa great idea.
Kelsey Graves (31:54):
I actually haven't yet, but maybe over like
a break or summer break, thatcould be a fun time.
I did listen to one episode onanother travel podcast where
they asked their kids what theirfavorite trip was in the last
year and why, and they were alsosurprised and it gave me some
insight into oh, sometimes wethink we've got to plan this big
elaborate thing, but theyreally just wanted to fish or
(32:17):
whatever, and so I think that'sa great idea and I'm going to do
that.
I think I'm going to make thata goal over summer break to do
some kid episodes.
Judy Oskam (32:25):
Especially maybe the Taylor episode too, because
I've thought about just gettingmy two daughters together in a
room but they're so busy.
Yeah, just to kind of talkabout, let's kind of reflect
back on that experience, andwhat did you like about going to
see the concert but alsovisiting Amsterdam again, and so
I think that could be a fundeal just to get them together,
(32:48):
because sometimes when you're inthe room, other things come up
too.
And I think the fact thatyou're modeling some of this
communication and, I think, thisexperiential learning, I think
pointing out to the kids why doyou think we went on that trip
or something, yeah, and evenshowing them what I do and how
(33:09):
you can create your own job andlook, it's just me and my
headphones and my mic and mylaptop and I've created this
whole thing.
Kelsey Graves (33:15):
They can learn from that and go oh, I could
create my own job someday if Iwanted to, exactly Well and
someone with three kids and youkind of created your own future.
Judy Oskam (33:28):
And I always want students and my own two kids to
understand that you can do that.
And what would you say topeople out there thinking, oh, I
don't want to do the nine tofive and I've got kids.
I mean, how do I create thelife I want?
What would you say to them?
Kelsey Graves (33:43):
I mean, I think we are lucky to be living in a
day and age where we actuallycan create our own jobs.
I think it's called the gigeconomy is growing rapidly,
which is people with side gigsthat are creating income for
themselves.
I would say, if you're relianton that nine to five and you do
(34:05):
need it, to just take baby stepswhen you have the time at night
.
I promise the only way I'vegotten here is the tiniest baby
steps.
It's not a huge leap.
You make these tiny goals.
I remember when I was trying tostart the podcast, I didn't
even tell that many people.
My best friend, I like got up Icalled it episode zero because
(34:25):
I wanted to just see if I couldget something out there Like
it's.
It's like will this actuallyplay on a podcast app?
And so I just did an episodezero and I got it out and I was
like, oh my gosh, okay, I didthis.
And then I kind of posted aboutit and my best friend texted me
and she goes when were yougoing to tell me you were
starting a podcast?
And I was like, oh sorry, butit was these baby steps where
all of a sudden, it was justthere.
(34:46):
And sometimes when you take thebaby steps, they feel small and
inconsequential.
But eventually you'll look backand go, oh my gosh, I'm now
almost 40 episodes in.
I remember when I thought if Ican just get 10 episodes, that
will be so cool.
Now we're at 40 and it's, youknow, rocking and rolling.
So those baby steps reallymatter, even just you know,
(35:10):
writing down the name of whatyou would do creating that
Instagram account, saving thatURL or, you know, learning how
to get on Squarespace and make awebsite.
Like it's baby steps.
But before you know it you'lllook back and you know it's
risky.
But you know we've got one lifeto live and you can always go
(35:31):
back and apply for another.
Nine to five.
You know, always there's jobsout there that people can get.
But it is fun to kind of have alittle bit of control of your
own world and the flexibility.
Like I'm leaving Friday morningfor an entire week to take my
daughter to a dance competitionin Orlando and then to meet up
with family for Thanksgiving andsome of my stuff isn't done.
(35:54):
But I can bring it all with me.
I can bring my computer, I canedit stuff in the hotel room.
It's really fun to have all theflexibility and go.
Oh, I can do that anywhere.
I can travel and do my job.
Judy Oskam (36:06):
And we only live once.
We only live once, right, solet's do it.
I love it.
You'll see, this is so fun.
I hope we'll maybe do somethingagain together and keep moving
forward, and I love it, andthank you so much for sharing
your information and yourguidance with us.
Kelsey Graves (36:23):
Thank you for having me.
This has been so fun.
It was fun for me to actuallylike wrap my brain around what I
have done, because sometimesyou're like, oh my gosh, it's
been so zigzaggy, but it all hada purpose, you know, to get me
here I love it.
Thank you, Kelsey.
Thank you for having me.
This has been lovely.
Judy Oskam (36:39):
And thank you for joining us on Stories of Change
and Creativity.
If you're enjoying the show,please subscribe, share and
leave a review.
It helps me share greatinterviews like this one with
others and remember if you'vegot a story to share or know
someone who does reach out to meat judyoskam.
com
Have you ever wanted to pivot your career, make a
change, take a leap into yourtrue passion, maybe go a
different direction?
Well, this episode is for you.
Welcome to Stories of Changeand Creativity.
I'm your host, Judy Oskam.
I'm a university professor atTexas State University and I
(00:22):
love interviewing interestingpeople about their creative
journey.
On this episode, I talk withcontent creator and seasoned
traveler, Kelsey Graves.
Kelsey is the host of the TripTales podcast, where she shares
real travel stories and inspiresher engaged community of travel
(00:43):
lovers travel lovers like me.
Kelsey and her husband have abusy life with three kids.
She spent 12 years turning herpassion for exploration into a
thriving career.
During our conversation, wetalk about why it's okay to
change directions.
We discuss Kelsey's path topodcasting and how manifesting
(01:06):
her best life led her to theTaylor Swift concert.
Well, I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Kelsey Graves (01:14):
Well, it's definitely quite a zigzag of a
story, but I will shorten it too.
I started in advertising andmarketing.
That was like my first career,real job out of college.
I was in Chicago and I workedfor OMD, which was a big media
buying agency, and so I kind oflearned the digital marketing
(01:35):
world there.
And then I moved into more ofthe digital magazine space.
So when I started there wasn'tas much social media happening a
little bit here and there butthere were still magazines, but
they were turning to online.
So I was working for BetterHomes and Gardens online,
fitness Magazine online and Iwas selling ad space on those
(01:58):
websites to big companies likeGeneral Mills and Kimberly-Clark
.
So I liked all that quite a bitI really did.
But I've always had this contentcreator side in me, even before
.
When I was a kid, I would beconstantly videoing things or
taking pictures of things andmaking them look really pretty,
almost editorial.
So I was always trying tocapture stories in some way and
(02:22):
put it out there in a creativeway.
I just didn't know what to dowith that and I don't think
really colleges back then didn'tknow what to do with that.
They're doing a much better jobnow with lots of different
classes.
But back then, you know, I justkind of majored in marketing and
journalism and my classes werelike, here's how you write a
radio spot and it's like what amI going to do with that?
I mean maybe I would havegotten into radio, but and it's
(02:44):
like what am I going to do withthat?
I mean, maybe I would havegotten into radio, but anyhow,
when I had my first child 12years ago, I decided I wanted to
have some flexibility.
I didn't want.
I was traveling a ton in theseonline sales roles and you know,
up at 5 AM off to New York city, and that was super fun for my
twenties, for sure.
But when I decided to have akid I was like, okay, I want to
stay, have the flexibility to behome, but still do something
(03:07):
creative and make some moneyfrom it honestly.
And so I started a websitecalled we Heart Parties and this
was my first foray into thecontent creation world.
I loved parties.
I loved super themed firstbirthday parties, baby showers,
bridal showers, just all thatcreativity that came with
(03:28):
parties.
This was before Pinterest.
I guess, if I was a little bitsmarter, I could have created a
Pinterest, but I just created awebsite where I was sharing all
these party ideas.
It was kind of like a blogstyle.
But what I did is I created acomponent which was really hard
I had a web developer help mewhere other people could upload
(03:48):
their parties too, so it wasn'tjust me trying to create this
content weekly, other peoplecould upload it and then they
had their own little slideshowof this was my son's first
birthday party, monster jam,whatever and so it became a
little platform and community ofall these party people sharing
their ideas.
That's where I launched myInstagram account from.
(04:09):
If you scroll way back in myInstagram account, it's party
ideas, right, right.
So I did that for a while,really loved it, kind of got my
feet wet in how to grow anonline account, how to take
pictures and create content, andthen I just got burnt out from
parties.
I was working with brands.
I was doing party scapes forOriental Trading Company or
(04:30):
Chinette, the disposable platecompany.
So I was doing some sponsoredstuff and making some money, but
that was a lot of stuff in myhouse, a lot of just junk.
At the end of the day, Iactually started feeling so
wasteful because I would get allthis stuff shipped to me.
I would set up a whole partyand then it's like what are you
(04:50):
doing?
I still remember that it was aPeppa Pig party that pushed me
over the edge.
I was like no more parties andmy husband also was like this is
a lot Like we just had boxesand boxes and you know, things
just run its course.
And that's something I wantedto talk about today is not being
afraid to say, okay, I'm goingto go in a different direction
(05:12):
and it's okay.
And even though I built thisaudience around parties, you
know it's okay to say I'm donewith parties and I'm done with
this account.
So I slowly just kind ofstopped the party content, kind
of just kept it up withlifestyle stuff.
And what I really started to dothen was I had a friend approach
me and say, hey, would you everdo social media and all this
(05:33):
stuff you're doing for a companyLike for us?
They had a really cool boutiquein a super adorable town that I
lived in at the time calledNewberry Port, massachusetts, up
in Boston, and so I said, sure,I'll try it.
I've never done it for somebodyelse before, but that worked
really well and I did that forabout five years where I there
(05:53):
was a point where I was runningfrom six to 10 other businesses
Instagram accounts, facebookaccounts, all their content.
I would go in and do coolvideos and make all the fun
little TikToks and that was likethe most lucrative time of my
career, because people need thatand, as you know, it's a
full-time job to try to keep upwith the social media stuff, to
(06:15):
try to promote your own business.
For some people it's really hardto talk about their own
business and brand.
For some reason, they don'tlike to brag on themselves.
It doesn't feel natural.
So for someone else to come inand say, tell me about your
awesome business.
I'm going to do this super coolvideo for you.
People really like that.
So that was a great time in mycareer.
It just got to be a lot.
(06:38):
Social media never sleeps.
People's businesses never sleep.
So I'm constantly getting textshey, can you post this?
Hey, we're going to have a saletomorrow.
Oh, my gosh, it's a snow day.
We're closed.
Can you post this?
And I did.
But it got to a point againwhere I was just like this is
feeling like too much.
So I slowly unwinded that a bit.
I still do a couple companieshere and there seasonally for
(07:00):
different things, just becauseI'm so ingrained that it's like,
okay, it'd be easier for me tojust do this for you than hire
somebody else.
But that is a great way to makemoney if you're good at doing
that sort of thing.
But so, to make a long storylong I guess, I then finally
started looking at what wasworking on my social media
(07:20):
accounts.
What am I passionate about?
What do I really want to honein here on and narrow down my
niche?
And I started looking back atsome of the social media stuff
I'd done, and it was alwaystravel.
It was always our family trips,our travel tips, and I wasn't
necessarily a travel expert orin the travel world at that
point.
(07:41):
But I thought, what if I narrowdown super narrow, because
everything I read and heard waslike get as narrow as possible
when you're trying to createsome sort of content and I just
jumped into travel full about ayear ago, maybe two years ago on
the social media, and inFebruary of this year for the
podcast, and it just kind ofhappened.
(08:03):
Sometimes I think things cometo us more than we chase them
and I just got this idea.
That was like I love listeningto podcasts about travel.
There's really none out therefor me right now that was doing
super relatable family travelstuff that's like not
necessarily here's how to flyaround the world on points that
stuff's awesome too, but just areal story like here's where we
went, here's how to fly aroundthe world on points that stuff's
(08:24):
awesome too, but just a realstory, like here's where we went
, here's where we stayed.
So I just started taking thebaby steps and learning how to
create a podcast which, as youknow, hundreds of thousands of
people are doing it.
But at the very beginning it'sa little like how do I actually
get this on Apple Podcasts?
It takes a minute to get it allset up.
(08:46):
But then I just did it and Ilaunched it and it's going well
and people are resonating withit and it's called Trip Tales,
so it's just about people'strips.
If you want to go to Florida,maybe you'll get an idea about a
great resort, but it's morphedinto something else now, too,
called.
We have a Trip Fails series,which is super fun because there
are people who have shared hey,this one trip actually went
horribly wrong for me andthey're really fun and funny
(09:08):
episodes and it helps people notmake the same mistakes.
Exactly, exactly.
That's kind of me in a nutshellwhich is a lot of stuff.
Judy Oskam (09:16):
I love that, and I love how you talked about
transitioning and being open tochange, because this podcast is
about change and creativity andyou've got both right.
So I think that's great.
But you've got three kids.
I have three kids, yes, and ahappy marriage.
You say yes.
Kelsey Graves (09:31):
I love that there's a lot going on at home
as well, which is fun because Ican pop off a podcast and go to
the school lunch if there's anevent going on and then come
back home and dive back into mythings.
So I do have a lot offlexibility, which I think comes
in the creative world, and I dobelieve I may have some sort of
(09:51):
a undiagnosed ADD.
I think all creatives mightthat I'm figuring out now in my
forties, but I do just kind oflike bounce around, like my
brain just kind of bouncesaround, but it works out at the
end of the day and I get all mystuff done, yeah, and that
energy and that empowers you tokeep going and you find another
path or you find a new story.
Judy Oskam (10:07):
And if you're like me, I mean I found you through
Buzzsprout.
Both of us use that as ourhosting site and there was a
exchange some ideas.
So Wendy and I were on yourpodcast and I appreciate that
and I love how you're open tokind of telling all these
different types of stories.
Kelsey Graves (10:29):
Yes, you guys should go listen to her episode.
Judy's episode on my podcast isabout her and her best friend's
mother-daughter trip toAmsterdam to see Taylor Swift,
which is just such a fun episodeit's fun.
It's fun because you learn tipsabout traveling to Amsterdam,
which is helpful for a lot ofpeople, but then you also get
the Taylor Swift component,which is fun as well.
Judy Oskam (10:48):
Yeah Well, speaking of Taylor Swift, so let's talk
about that a little bit.
You told us when we did ourconversation oh, I'd really love
to go to the concert.
Where are you on that?
What have you done?
Have you had a chance to seeTaylor I?
Kelsey Graves (11:02):
went.
I went.
It was so exciting.
So when they were on, I meanI'm a huge Swifty.
I've loved all the albums, Ilove Taylor Swift.
I've tried to get tickets whenshe was in Nashville.
It was just obviously soexpensive and so complicated and
I was telling them in theirepisode I really want to try to
go to this Heiress tour, but Idon't know if it's going to
happen.
Don't know if it's going tohappen.
(11:27):
Well, this is kind of a funstory.
I do believe a bit inmanifestation and affirmations
and speaking things that youwant to happen, because words
are powerful and it can changeyour brain chemistry and it can
just move things in differentdirections.
It can.
I totally agree with you and itkeeps you open for the world
right, yes, and so in August2023, so well over a year ago I
wrote in my notes app I went tothe Taylor Swift Eras concert in
(11:50):
Indianapolis.
It was amazing.
I even snagged a t-shirt.
I have a screenshot of it.
I wrote that down in August2023.
Well, you know, fast forward awhole year.
I still haven't gone to theEras tour.
She's coming to Indianapolis.
I'm from Indianapolis, born andraised.
I live in Nashville, soIndianapolis is just a short
four to five hour drive.
(12:10):
My parents are there.
They have a house there that Icould stay in.
I was just like I've got to getto this concert.
Tickets are $2,000 to $3,000.
I could not make that happenand it was the weekend she was
coming.
It was Thursday or Friday ofthe weekend.
She was going to be inIndianapolis and I posted on my
Instagram last call putting thisout in the universe If anyone
even comes across a singleticket, I will drive up and go
(12:32):
by myself.
I won't even put on a cuteoutfit, I will just get to the
venue.
Well, my sweet dad who's one ofthe most amazing people on the
planet and really I think that'swhere I get my creativity and
my spontaneity and myrisk-taking from him, because
(12:52):
he's always been an entrepreneur.
He always is out to kind of dothe fun thing.
But I wasn't expecting him tobuy me Taylor Swift tickets by
any means.
Well, he started kind ofgetting a little bit of this
FOMO, I think this huge stars.
In my town I've got a lot offriends whose kids are going
looking around and he's reallybusy.
He runs two companies so hewasn't even it wasn't on his
radar to look for tickets.
(13:14):
Well, he is starting to text mysister and I.
My sister lives in Boise, idaho, and he's going hey, I think I
can get two tickets, allie,could you fly in.
And then he texts back oh mygosh, I lost them.
I mean, you tried to gettickets, you know.
That's why we went to Amsterdam.
Yeah, it was a complicated thing.
And then he texts us out of theblue and says I bought four
(13:35):
tickets.
And I am just like, is thisreal?
Is it all still feels like adream.
So I'm like, oh my gosh, I'vegot to find something sparkly
and get my 12-year-old out ofschool and we're driving to
Indianapolis and my sister'slike I got to get a flight from
Boise, idaho, to Indianapolis,but we'll fly anywhere for
Taylor Swift.
And so we all get toIndianapolis and it's a
(13:55):
whirlwind and we change into oursparkles, we put glitter on our
face and we have a bunch.
It was the most happy, joyful,lovely experience.
The police officers were thereon horses that had friendship
bracelets draped around theirnecks, gorgeous, huge friendship
bracelets.
(14:16):
The police officers wereexchanging friendship bracelets
with people.
Everybody was, you know,dressed to the nines and
whatever they felt the mostswifty and comfortable in, and
we had the time of our livesjust singing every song.
And I have all these videos andit honestly still feels like a
dream, because it's such an epicshow that really feels like
once in a lifetime.
(14:36):
And the biggest joke was my dadsaw the Beatles for his first
concert when he was young andhe's never forgotten that and
he's never stopped talking aboutthat.
So my daughter and my sister'sdaughter first concert now was
Taylor Swift, which he was apart of, and we were like that's
amazing.
You can tell that for the restof your life and this might be
(14:59):
your first concert, might beyour best concert for the rest
of your life.
So the bar was set a little high, Sure sure concert for the rest
of your life.
Judy Oskam (15:06):
So the bar was set a little high.
Sure, sure, I love that.
That's amazing.
Well, and, and you know, Kelsey, what does that say about
taking the chance and justputting, putting the word out
there and then being ready tojust pick up and go?
Kelsey Graves (15:16):
Yes, I believe that that is part of
manifestation, all the things Ithink Oprah once said.
You know, there's no luck.
It's where preparation meetsopportunity, and it's true.
Like you know, I was prepared,I had a sparkly dress, I was
ready to drive.
I'm not afraid to dropeverything and go.
Honey, husband, you're incharge of these two and we're
(15:37):
going to go this way for just 24hours and, yeah, I do think
putting stuff out there and justbeing ready for what's next,
whether that's a career decisionor an amazing experience, you
know, like a concert, that's afun way to live.
Judy Oskam (15:53):
Well, and the idea of experiential learning and
going with the experience.
You really go there for theexperience.
Kelsey Graves (16:01):
It's more than just listening to music right ?
Agreed, and I'm big with thaton my kids, especially with the
travel stuff.
It's like you got listening tomusic Agreed, and I'm big with
that on my kids, especially withthe travel stuff.
It's like you got to go placesto see things.
You've got to go places to seehow other people live.
It opens parts of your brainthat you just can't do if you
don't go and see and experience,which is a huge part of why I
love to travel.
(16:22):
Our kids were littler for thelongest time and we did the
typical go down to Florida, aneasy trip, meet up with the
grandparents.
And now it's like, oh my gosh,they're a little older and I'm
like, okay, we're doing New Yorkcity.
And then I'm like, what's next?
We're going to go out of thecountry.
Like I want them to see theworld and experience things.
Judy Oskam (16:39):
I love that.
Well, and in my program atTexas State we started the
education abroad and the studyabroad because we think it's so
valuable to get students intoanother culture, to see and just
learn.
Some of our students had neverbeen on a plane before, so my
faculty would work with them on.
(16:59):
What do you do at the airport?
You walk through this securitything.
How do you do that?
But once they go, it changestheir world you know, yes, 100%.
Kelsey Graves (17:09):
And that's something that I'm doing now
with my oldest, who's 12, is,anytime we travel now I'll go.
Okay, you get us to the gate,like I'll go, where do we go now
?
And I'll let her lead usthrough security, because that's
a big part of travel and youknow they'll know how to travel
because we're taking them allthese places.
But it is fun to say why don'tyou try to get us there?
Do we need to take the littleplane train?
Do we need to?
(17:29):
And let them lead the way,which is really fun to see as
well.
Judy Oskam (17:38):
I think that's great .
And my youngest daughter's 23and she just got back from a
solo trip to Japan and she founda really cheap ticket from LA
and so she booked everything,did a solo trip.
She met a friend over there butshe didn't stay.
She stayed solo.
I was worried the whole time,but you know, I mean just to
give.
She had her Apple Maps, whichsometimes don't work so well in
(17:59):
foreign countries, so that wasanother thing.
But well, look ahead and talk alittle about the content that
you're looking at sharing in thefuture.
I did hear your trip fails andI think that's a great series
idea to do.
What are you looking to do andhow do you want to connect with
your audience?
Moving forward.
Kelsey Graves (18:19):
So it started as just trip tales and we're going
to have a guest on and shareabout a trip and people are
going to get practicalinformation and be able to
either go on a mini vacationduring their day hearing about
someone else's trip or they'regoing to be able to get
practical tips to plan their owntrip.
And it's slowly starting toevolve as the community is
starting to build and people arestarting to listen to more
(18:40):
episodes where it's becomingalmost more of like a
conversation.
And so, for an example, one ofmy friends reached out to me, so
this was after I shared I wenton a Disney cruise.
It didn't go so well.
It's a hilarious episode, youcan listen to it, but we got
stuck at sea for two extra daysbecause Hurricane Milton had hit
Florida and closed the Orlandoport and I wasn't so sure about
(19:03):
cruising.
We weren't sure if we were acruising family and basically
everything that could have gonewrong went wrong.
Like you can listen to theepisode, but it's motion
sickness, stomach bugs, gettingstuck at sea, not really wanting
to be on the ship anymore andjust kind of being tossed and
turned in the waves.
So, anyways, I was sharing thatstory very authentically.
I think that's where this wholething is working is being very
(19:25):
open, not painting a sugarypicture of our Disney cruise and
just making a pretty Instagramreel about it, but saying this
actually didn't work so well forus and sharing our real story.
And a fellow podcaster sent me avoice memo and she said Kelsey,
I was hooked.
I was on the edge of my seatthat entire episode.
I was like what's going tohappen next on this cruise?
(19:46):
How long are you going to bestuck here?
I loved the rawness of it somuch.
She goes.
I can't help but think youshould do trip fails, she goes,
trip tails, trip fails.
It rhymes and I was like oh mygosh, you're right, that is so
fun.
So, without knowing it, theDisney cruise episode was my
first trip fail.
Anyhow, fast forward to, one ofmy friends reaches out to me
(20:08):
and she says oh my gosh, I had atrip fail.
She goes.
We went to the super famousbeaches Turks and Caicos and she
goes.
On Instagram everybody's ravingabout it.
It's so glowy and shiny and shegoes.
We had a completely oppositeexperience.
There was all this rundownstuff.
Our room was run down.
The service was horrible.
We didn't like the food.
She goes.
We spent so much money on thistrip and we were like are we
(20:31):
missing something?
So she was like can I come onand share about it?
And I was like a little likewell, here goes my opportunity
to get a hosted stay at Beaches,Turks and Caicos.
Then I did an Instagram reelabout it, which I'd also love to
talk a bit about how I kind oflearned how to get Instagram
reels and stuff to go viral topromote whatever it is you're
(20:52):
doing.
So I do an Instagram reel.
It goes viral and people arefighting in the comments Not
negative, but I love Beaches,turks and Caicos.
We had the same experience.
Everything has run down.
No, no, no, we had the bestexperience.
We had the same experience.
Everything has run down.
No, no, no, we had the bestexperience.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, backand forth.
So I end up getting two DMs.
One is from someone I know whosaid we've been twice, we love
it and we're booked for a thirdtime.
(21:13):
She goes I was so disheartenedto hear about your friend's trip
.
And then a travel agent who hasquite a big following on
Instagram, like a prettyrenowned travel agent, gets all
worked up and voice memos me.
A 10 minute voice memo.
Oh man, this was inaccurate,this isn't right.
Blah, blah, blah and I was likeokay, I hear both of you.
Why don't we do another episode?
(21:33):
Let's keep this conversationgoing.
I would love to have you two on.
I'm not here to say no oneshould go to beaches, turks and
Caicos.
By any means, I've never beenthere, so we have a rebuttal
episode coming about.
Why Beaches, Turks and Caicosis amazing, I love it.
Where I'm at is just kind oflike everybody has their own
experiences and their ownperspectives, and people might
pick up on a certain person andsay I think I resonate with that
(21:54):
person more and I'm gonna trusttheir opinion.
Or they might say you know,these people are saying look
past the parts that are run down, there's so much beauty in this
place.
And I resonate with them.
So I'm basically open to wherethe community conversation is
ebbing and flowing.
At first I thought it was goingto be all family travel.
(22:14):
Sure, but similar to what yousaid about your daughter, one of
my best friends just took asolo trip to Paris because she
wanted to go to Paris.
It's so hard to coordinate allthe childcare with the kids and
if the husband's going to go andall the things.
She needed a breath and a break.
And she went for three nightsand I was like should?
I go somewhere alone at thismoment I know, so I want to have
(22:36):
her on to share about why shedid it.
It's a story and it's people'sexperiences and I do have
episodes booked out.
We're doing a lot of ski trip,family ski trip stuff but really
where I want to take it iswherever the conversation goes,
and we can have positives and wecan have negatives, and it's
okay because it's all just partof the story I love that.
Judy Oskam (22:58):
That's where it's headed and I love that, and I am
following you on Instagram andthat's how I was worried about
you guys.
Are you going to get off of theship?
That's how I was worried aboutyou guys.
Are you going to get off of theship?
Kelsey Graves (23:08):
I was kind of worried about that.
Judy Oskam (23:09):
Talk about your Instagram and how you are using
that to kind of communicate themessage.
Kelsey Graves (23:14):
Yes.
So Instagram has been a hugedriver for me ever since I did
the party ideas thing and I'vebuilt the audience over time.
But recently, when I reallyniched down, is when it is
taking off, and I've heard thisover and over and over again.
There's plenty of peoplesharing everything there is to
share on Instagram If you reallywant to, and there's no reason
(23:37):
to have a ton of followers.
I think people chase followersjust because that's what you do,
but you'll never be satisfiedin the amount of followers you
have.
If you're trying to build anaccount, I promise you, I tried
to get to 1K.
I got there.
Then I wanted 10K.
I got to 10K, I wanted 20K.
I'm at 50K now.
That would have been blowing mymind five years ago and now I'm
(23:59):
like well, I need to get to100K.
So I try to keep that in checkand be like it doesn't matter,
there's people with 25 million,there's people with 1,000.
That part doesn't matter.
It's speaking to your communityand providing things of value
to the people that are alreadythere.
Sometimes I say, if you thinkabout all the people who follow
you on Instagram being in a room, if there were 800 people or
(24:21):
2,000 people in a room beinglike what did you want to say?
And you're like, oh hi, that'sa lot of people that you can
talk to.
So think about those people,don't think about the people
that you're going to try to get.
So start there and then knowyour niche, niche down super far
and it only takes about sixposts nine really before your
(24:42):
Instagram feed looks superniched up because all you can
see when you go to see someone'spage is nine little photos.
So mine is very cohesive.
It's very travel.
I have the same little kind oftext box on the front of every
post so that it all looks thesame oh, if I click on this one,
I'm going to learn about theBahamas.
If I click on this one, I'mgoing to learn about a Disney
(25:03):
cruise.
But the real way right now tokind of go viral, I would say,
where you can drive someone to,you know, for our purposes, a
podcast episode is by.
I have this little theory andit's working over and over again
is you got to hook them?
So you have to say something inthe first two seconds that are
(25:23):
going to make someone stay andwatch, because people are just
swiping like this so fast.
So the hook is normally like Ican't gatekeep this resort or
you're never going to believewhat happened, or a big one
right now with the trip fails,is unpopular opinion.
Those types of things that say,oh, and you can Google.
Judy Oskam (25:43):
Yeah, you can use ChatGPT.
ChatGPT.
Yeah, yeah.
Kelsey Graves (25:46):
Yeah, and then you give them something valuable
quickly.
You don't need it's not apodcast, it's not 30 minutes you
give them.
You know I'll say most peopleout there love Disney cruises,
but for us we had a slightlydifferent experience.
If you've ever wondered ifyou're a cruising family and
then you end with a call toaction, very clear call to
(26:07):
action because you have to tellpeople what to do.
If not, they're swiping.
You know they're doom scrollingfor two hours.
You say comment below or sendthis to a friend or like this
post.
You literally tell them whatyou want them to do.
It sounds kind of silly thefirst couple of times.
You do it, but people do it.
And then my favorite tool rightnow, the best tool that's
(26:28):
working for me, is called LinkDM.
It's LinkDMcom and it's thiswebsite that allows you to.
If someone comments somethingon your post, you can set up
these little triggers where itwill automatically DM them
something.
So I say I share all about this.
(26:49):
On episode 32 of my Trip Talespodcast, comment Disney below
and I will send you the episode.
So if someone comments Disney,I've set it up through this
website that you join where ifsomeone comments Disney on that
post, they automatically getsent the link to my podcast.
You can send any link you want.
You could do a website link.
(27:10):
I do the Apple podcast linkbecause 90% of my listeners are
Apple podcast and they can clickright there and it opens in the
podcast app.
So it's just, I've seen acouple of mine go viral a Marco
Island Florida one and DisneyWish and my listens go up super
high because people are, oh,wish, okay, now it's in my phone
(27:32):
, it's in my hand, the episode,and they can click right over.
It's not, you know, I'm not likenecessarily going to gain tons
and tons of subscribers and thatpeople might listen and then
never find me again this way.
But I'm sure there's someconversion where 5% are saying,
oh, I kind of liked that episode, I'll subscribe or follow along
.
So that's kind of my littlewheel that's working right now.
(27:55):
Um, you know, podcasting istricky because for me it's fun,
it's a hobby.
There isn't a ton of income init right now, which is why I'm
still hanging on to some ofthose clients.
But I do feel like as you getmore listens and stuff and as
you gain more influence, that'swhere some of those sponsorships
can come.
When they go oh, 2000 peoplelistened to her talking about
(28:17):
not to go to beaches.
Maybe we should, you know,invite her to this place and get
a positive review.
Judy Oskam (28:24):
That's right, that's right.
Oh, those are some great tips.
And again, niching down is hard.
I tend to find a storyeverywhere I go, and that's my
challenge is oh, there's a storyhere and there.
There really is tying thecommon theme is the challenge
that I always have, but for meit's a hobby too.
But the more I talk to otherpodcasters I'm thinking maybe I
(28:46):
should niche into onlypodcasters and still do my
change and creativity focus,because that could be an
interesting target area.
Kelsey Graves (28:55):
Right.
And then other podcasters startfollowing you and want to hear
from other podcasters.
Judy Oskam (29:02):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Well, and if you look at someof your strengths, I think and I
always ask about strengths andyou've mentioned you're open for
creativity and you tend to seearound the corner and you can
anticipate trends, I'm surebecause of your background.
What are some other strengthsthat you think really kind of
(29:22):
paint the picture?
If someone were to say, tell meabout Kelsey, what would they
tell me?
Kelsey Graves (29:27):
So I thought about this and I have a couple.
And then I asked my husbandlast night and it was really
funny because he gave medifferent ones.
So I was like, oh, that's sointeresting, because sometimes
you don't know how other peoplesee you.
But my first one is that it's astrength and a weakness.
But I'm just an eternaloptimist.
I always have been Sorry,getting over a little cold here,
but if any of your listenersare familiar with the Enneagram,
(29:50):
I'm an Enneagram 7.
So everything is just likebright and shiny and sunshine
and rainbows.
Not always I do have my moments, but I'm always forward
thinking and I always believeeverything's going to work out.
So that is why I'm not afraidto start a podcast.
I just kind of go for it.
So I do think it's a strength,but it can be a weakness,
because then I, you know, I getmy family on a Disney cruise
(30:12):
that we get stuck on, becauseI'm just like it's all going to
work out.
We're going during hurricaneseason, but we're not going to
be the ones stuck during thehurricane oh guess season.
But we're not going to be theones suffering the hurt oh guess
what.
So it's a strength and aweakness, but I'm always just
assuming things are going towork out and you know, 80% of
the time it does.
I also feel like I just figurethings out.
Like some of this world ofcontent creation can be a little
(30:33):
tricky and complicated and it'sreally annoying sometimes, but
sometimes it takes a whole dayto figure out how to get your
podcast set up, so you just gotto sit in that for a minute and
figure it out and it's annoying.
But YouTube is your best friendand there's someone out there
who has created a video on howto do just about anything these
(30:53):
days, and so I think a strengthis that I just figure it out by
myself.
Strength is that I just figuredout by myself.
My husband said he thinks mybiggest strength in this whole
world is that I'm very curiousand I'm naturally curious, and
so that lends itself well to apodcast, because you'll say,
wait, tell me more about that.
Or like I really, really wantto know about people's trips
(31:14):
because I might plan it or Ijust want to hear and get to
know somebody.
So I think curiosity is a bigstrength.
And then he joked and he saidyou've always been a talker.
And I'm like that is true, I'ma talker.
I created three talking talkerchildren, so there's a lot of
talking in our family, which Ilove, and that is super fun for
(31:35):
me to be going down this podcastroad and I get to talk and
every time I get off one I'm inthe best mood because I just
talk to someone amazing, exactly.
Judy Oskam (31:45):
So, yeah, I would say those are some of my
strengths have you ever thoughtabout getting your kids on the
podcast and asking them?
From a kid perspective, that isa great idea.
Kelsey Graves (31:54):
I actually haven't yet, but maybe over like
a break or summer break, thatcould be a fun time.
I did listen to one episode onanother travel podcast where
they asked their kids what theirfavorite trip was in the last
year and why, and they were alsosurprised and it gave me some
insight into oh, sometimes wethink we've got to plan this big
elaborate thing, but theyreally just wanted to fish or
(32:17):
whatever, and so I think that'sa great idea and I'm going to do
that.
I think I'm going to make thata goal over summer break to do
some kid episodes.
Judy Oskam (32:25):
Especially maybe the Taylor episode too, because
I've thought about just gettingmy two daughters together in a
room but they're so busy.
Yeah, just to kind of talkabout, let's kind of reflect
back on that experience, andwhat did you like about going to
see the concert but alsovisiting Amsterdam again, and so
I think that could be a fundeal just to get them together,
(32:48):
because sometimes when you're inthe room, other things come up
too.
And I think the fact thatyou're modeling some of this
communication and, I think, thisexperiential learning, I think
pointing out to the kids why doyou think we went on that trip
or something, yeah, and evenshowing them what I do and how
(33:09):
you can create your own job andlook, it's just me and my
headphones and my mic and mylaptop and I've created this
whole thing.
Kelsey Graves (33:15):
They can learn from that and go oh, I could
create my own job someday if Iwanted to, exactly Well and
someone with three kids and youkind of created your own future.
Judy Oskam (33:28):
And I always want students and my own two kids to
understand that you can do that.
And what would you say topeople out there thinking, oh, I
don't want to do the nine tofive and I've got kids.
I mean, how do I create thelife I want?
What would you say to them?
Kelsey Graves (33:43):
I mean, I think we are lucky to be living in a
day and age where we actuallycan create our own jobs.
I think it's called the gigeconomy is growing rapidly,
which is people with side gigsthat are creating income for
themselves.
I would say, if you're relianton that nine to five and you do
(34:05):
need it, to just take baby stepswhen you have the time at night
.
I promise the only way I'vegotten here is the tiniest baby
steps.
It's not a huge leap.
You make these tiny goals.
I remember when I was trying tostart the podcast, I didn't
even tell that many people.
My best friend, I like got up Icalled it episode zero because
(34:25):
I wanted to just see if I couldget something out there Like
it's.
It's like will this actuallyplay on a podcast app?
And so I just did an episodezero and I got it out and I was
like, oh my gosh, okay, I didthis.
And then I kind of posted aboutit and my best friend texted me
and she goes when were yougoing to tell me you were
starting a podcast?
And I was like, oh sorry, butit was these baby steps where
all of a sudden, it was justthere.
(34:46):
And sometimes when you take thebaby steps, they feel small and
inconsequential.
But eventually you'll look backand go, oh my gosh, I'm now
almost 40 episodes in.
I remember when I thought if Ican just get 10 episodes, that
will be so cool.
Now we're at 40 and it's, youknow, rocking and rolling.
So those baby steps reallymatter, even just you know,
(35:10):
writing down the name of whatyou would do creating that
Instagram account, saving thatURL or, you know, learning how
to get on Squarespace and make awebsite.
Like it's baby steps.
But before you know it you'lllook back and you know it's
risky.
But you know we've got one lifeto live and you can always go
(35:31):
back and apply for another.
Nine to five.
You know, always there's jobsout there that people can get.
But it is fun to kind of have alittle bit of control of your
own world and the flexibility.
Like I'm leaving Friday morningfor an entire week to take my
daughter to a dance competitionin Orlando and then to meet up
with family for Thanksgiving andsome of my stuff isn't done.
(35:54):
But I can bring it all with me.
I can bring my computer, I canedit stuff in the hotel room.
It's really fun to have all theflexibility and go.
Oh, I can do that anywhere.
I can travel and do my job.
Judy Oskam (36:06):
And we only live once.
We only live once, right, solet's do it.
I love it.
You'll see, this is so fun.
I hope we'll maybe do somethingagain together and keep moving
forward, and I love it, andthank you so much for sharing
your information and yourguidance with us.
Kelsey Graves (36:23):
Thank you for having me.
This has been so fun.
It was fun for me to actuallylike wrap my brain around what I
have done, because sometimesyou're like, oh my gosh, it's
been so zigzaggy, but it all hada purpose, you know, to get me
here I love it.
Thank you, Kelsey.
Thank you for having me.
This has been lovely.
Judy Oskam (36:39):
And thank you for joining us on Stories of Change
and Creativity.
If you're enjoying the show,please subscribe, share and
leave a review.
It helps me share greatinterviews like this one with
others and remember if you'vegot a story to share or know
someone who does reach out to meat judyoskam.
com
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