June 12, 2025 • 15 mins
Are you a professor, researcher or writer? Do you battle with distraction and writer's block? If so, a writing retreat might be just what you need to finish your project. Retreats provide academics with distraction-free environments to focus solely on their writing projects, helping them make significant progress in a short time.
While teaching a class at Queen Margaret University in Scotland, I stumbled upon a writing retreat just down the hall from my classroom. I asked Dr. Vani Naik, Researcher Developer at Edinburgh Napier University, for a quick interview on my iPhone. I'm fascinated with the creative process and thought it could make for an interesting podcast episode. Let me know what you think.
"When you're writing, you're writing, and when you're not writing, you're not writing" - Vani Naik
Key Takeaways
• Writing retreats separate participants from daily demands and distractions
• Structured 90-minute writing sessions create focused blocks of productive time
• Creative elements like guided walks, yoga, and puzzles enhance productivity
• Building community and acknowledging participants personally creates a supportive environment
• Sustainable practices academics can incorporate into their regular routines
• Separating writing time from non-writing activities is crucial for productivity
• Creative approaches to academic writing challenge traditional views of academic seriousness
• Participants consistently are surprised at how much they accomplish in short periods
• Setting clear boundaries around writing time (out-of-office replies, phones away) enhances focus
Bio:
Dr Vani Naik is Researcher Developer at Edinburgh Napier University, where she supports researchers with their professional development. She’s particularly interested in supporting career development, as she recognises how much enjoying your work impacts on wellbeing. She’s carved out an enjoyable working life so that the “Sunday Scaries” don’t apply, and works to foster this in others. Apart from curating creative writing retreats, she is also keen to support professional development for researcher developers. She is part of an international committee creating one-to-one mentoring pairs, and a UK scheme for peer mentoring circles.
What Vani loves about her work is that she can create practical impact from her theoretical PhD thesis work on academic career pathways to the professoriate for women engineers. She has also started her own business with a view to sharing creative practices, providing consulting services
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Judy Oskam (00:02):
Are you a professor or a writer and have you ever
struggled with finding the timeto get your writing done?
Well, I can certainly relate.
Welcome to Stories of Changeand Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam.
While teaching a class forTexas State at Queen Margaret
University in Scotland, Istumbled upon a writing retreat
(00:24):
designed for academics and thecoordinator, Vani Naik, was open
to a short interview on myiPhone.
Vani and I talked about writingcreativity and the challenges
we all face when staring at theblank page or computer screen,
and she should know.
Dr Vani Naik is an expert onacademic careers.
(00:46):
Her PhD work focused on womenprofessors in engineering.
In one of her roles, she servesas a researcher developer at
Edinburgh Napier University inScotland.
Our conversation focuses on thepurpose of the writing retreat
and offers some tips for dealingwith distraction.
(01:07):
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Vani Naik (01:12):
And what we're doing here is a three-day writing
retreat for academics andpostgraduate researchers doing
PhDs, and we bring them away tothis separate space and there's
an option to stay residentiallyso staying overnight in the
halls of residence and weprovide all the um, the food
(01:32):
that you need your breakfast,lunch and dinner.
So essentially they can justfocus on their writing projects,
whatever that may be.
So it could be the writing anarticle for phd researchers
could be working on their thesisum, so it's whatever writing
projects that they want to kindof focus on.
So we bring that here as aseparate space from their
day-to-day lives.
Judy Oskam (01:53):
And why is that important to really separate?
Vani Naik (01:57):
I think many people try to get writing done in
between lots of daily demands,but, as you might know as a
professor yourself that it'svery, very difficult to get that
done when there's lots of dailydemands.
But, as you might know as aprofessor yourself that it's
very, very difficult to get thatdone when there's lots of email
creep or people say, oh, can Ijust ask you a question?
There's lots of distractions.
So the idea here is really toprovide as much as possible a
distraction-free space, plus theseparation, I think, of a
(02:20):
different physical environmenthopefully stimulates that
creative energy that they mightneed to get started on some
projects or things they've leftbehind.
Um, the feedback that we've getum is always that they really
value being in that completelydifferent space, that it really
does spark something differentfor them well, and the way
you've got it designed.
Judy Oskam (02:39):
You just came back from a walk, yeah, so you went
out for a walk in nature.
Vani Naik (02:43):
yeah.
So I mean I would say thatthat's something that I have
brought in, because when I firsttook over it was purely just
writing sessions there was.
It was literally turn it rightand me and one thing that I
really wanted to inject is thatcreativity, and partly because
sessions are quite long than 90minute sessions and I think
doing four of those a day isquite intense, and I decided
(03:05):
that the third session I want itto be optional, so I even put
that you can have a nap, becauseif they're staying in their
residences they can go and havea nap.
And I put walk and I'm happy tolead a walk and I've actually
been delighted at how manypeople have come for the walk.
I've also put in again, new forthis year is some yoga
stretching, uh, just lunch.
So we had just today we didyoga for fingers, hands and
(03:26):
wrists and we also now also do a50 second breathing bubble
before each writing session justto get them into the zone.
And you might have seen I alsobrought a jigsaw in as well.
So I just put that out there topeople to just have a little
play, do something a little bitdifferent.
So trying to sort of injectlittle elements of creativity
just for fun, but I think I'msure there's someone who's doing
(03:48):
a research study that somewhere.
But I like to think that ithelps get them.
Um, you know, it will help themeventually in their projects,
but if not, it just gives theman idea that when they're
writing in their own environment, maybe they can also go for a
walk.
We know there's loads so muchresearch that shows how
beneficial it is.
So, um, yeah, just trying togive them options of things they
(04:09):
can do, not just here whilethey're with us, but also things
they can do in their own livesso you're actually teaching them
models and formats andstructures that that might might
help them be more productive.
Yeah, yeah, I'd like to showthem that, you know, one of the
things that I think is reallyimportant is when you're writing
, you're writing, and whenyou're not writing, you're not
writing, because so many peopletry to write and do other things
(04:30):
, and I think it's a clear focus, which is so important, and I
think that's one of the realbenefits.
They always say how amazed theyare how much they can get done
in a short space of time, andthat's easier to do when you're
purely focused on that.
Judy Oskam (04:48):
Why, do you think I mean, we're so distracted in
our day to day?
Is that why this has been asuccessful conference for so
long?
Vani Naik (05:13):
for academics generally, but having the space
and time to do that and I thinkpeople also just, you know,
someone said to me that there'sa grant proposal they want to
write and it's, you know, 10,000words and they just haven't had
the headspace to get into itand having the time to do that
deep thinking and that deep workwithout being distracted, I
think is really helpful.
Judy Oskam (05:29):
Well, I know when I've worked on projects in the
past and I've done documentaryand editing and you need blocks
and blocks of time.
Vani Naik (05:37):
Yeah.
Judy Oskam (05:38):
And it's impossible sometimes to rearrange your
schedule for that.
Vani Naik (05:43):
Yes, we try to organize these well in advance
so people can kind of almostbreathe a sigh of relief even in
.
We're in June now, so let's sayeven I think I announced it
like February, March, so thatthey know the days are coming,
so they can sort of be calmknowing that time is coming,
Because once you block it in adiary it's there, you know.
I think creating a spaceafterwards can be tricky, but
(06:04):
once it's in, it's in.
Judy Oskam (06:05):
Yeah, yeah.
What are some tips that you'vethat you've learned from doing
the conference on things thatreally work for people, because
you put out the puzzles thisyear, so you're kind of
iterating as you go.
Vani Naik (06:17):
Yeah, absolutely, I like to innovate, I like to.
One of the things that has beenreally helpful is giving them
the permission at the verybeginning and saying please put
your out-of-office reply on youremails, like setting that tone,
also just being very explicit.
Explicit, like, please put yourphones away if you can.
Obviously some people havereasons where they need to have
their phones nearby, but pleasephysically put them away.
(06:39):
You know, you don't need toeven look at them again.
Just having that community ofpeople buying into that really,
really helps.
Um, and one thing I've been sodelightfully um, surprised that
people were willing to give theyoga a go.
I wasn't sure it was anexperiment this year, but no
shoes came off and I chose yogasessions that were standing,
only ones that you didn't haveto do and you know sort of
(07:01):
pretzel like shapes.
That would be good for me.
I could not do that, yeah, so,but I made it kind of ones that
would be.
The first one was office yoga,next one was for hands and
wrists, and people have goneinto it and I think that's
really good.
But for me, a really key part ofwhether people are willing to
do that is how included theyfeel.
(07:22):
So I really make sure on thefirst day we spend time on
introductions.
I put everyone's name up sothat because they all don't know
each other Some of them of them, you know they come from all
over, yeah, and use their namesand I get to know them a little
bit and I think those smallthings mean that they are
willing to buy in becausethey're not nobody, they're
somebody to me.
Um, I don't know them reallywell, but I think they know.
(07:44):
Like, if they don't come, Ijust say are you okay?
Just checking you're fine, um,and I think that might be a
little bit absent, I think, fromeveryday academic life.
You know, people are quiteindependent, as rightly so, um,
but just to for them to knowthat you know I care about them
and making sure that they'reokay and that that seems to
hopefully, and you know, fosterthe environment where people are
(08:04):
willing to try things well, Ithink everyone needs to be seen,
right, everybody wants to beseen absolutely and especially
when their work is so personal.
Judy Oskam (08:13):
Yes, it's writing and it's their.
It's their livelihood and theirlife.
Yeah, so I think you have someelements there, but have you
tried meditation at all?
Have you included some of that?
Vani Naik (08:25):
oh we, I won't call it meditation, but it'd be a
breathing, like a really slowinhale and exhale because, um,
you know, meditation can havereligious roots.
I want to make sure I just keepthat kind of secular, but that
has gone down well.
But yeah, that's something thatyou know.
I can always invite people atthe end if they would like to do
that a bit more.
(08:45):
That could be next year'sinnovation.
Judy Oskam (08:48):
Well, what is your background to get you into this?
Oh wow, how okay you get intothis uh, it's a great question.
Vani Naik (08:55):
So I'm a teacher by background originally, but then
I did a PhD and through PhD, thebits that I was doing was
always trying to fostercommunity.
I set up a writing group evenwhen I was a PhD student and I
really enjoyed those things thatwere distractions, quote,
unquote and then I realized thatthis was an actual job.
So I had the pleasure ofgetting this job at Edinburgh
(09:17):
and AP University as researchdeveloper and that basically
allows me to try out all thesethings.
And, honestly, I had a terribletime during my PhD which I'm
very open about and for me itwas during that time to really
think about all the ways that Icould try to build community
things that I needed, and havingthe position now to make those
(09:38):
things happen for other people.
You know, hopefully most peopleare having a much better time,
but even whether you're having agood time or less good time,
these kind of activities arethere to help you.
You know they're there foreveryone.
So, um, you know, most of thetime I'm doing it for myself
because I'm like, hey, a jigsawwill be fun, you know, just to
do another.
You know it's when the break.
The teachers are right.
Judy Oskam (09:57):
We we keep making it fun so that we enjoy this
bell and students come along.
They're good.
So, yeah, I think that's partof it too, and I love that that
you really are pulling from yourown background.
Vani Naik (10:09):
Oh, oh definitely, yeah, I, I, I know that
community was really importantfor me, for people to see me and
and to recognize how I worked,and I know I feel very fortunate
that in my role I have thefreedom to to be, to innovate
and bring new things in and say,oh, let's try this.
Oh, actually, I think we should.
You know, I didn't ask foranyone permission, anyone's
(10:29):
permission.
I okay, I'm bringing it.
It's a jigsaw, but you know,some micromanagers might say, no
, that's um, not serious, toofun, it's not serious enough.
So I just brought it.
I didn't force anyone, I justput a count of the pieces, make
sure they were all there, andand then people seem to be doing
them like okay, yeah, okay,yeah.
So I only brought one andsomeone seems to be finishing it
as we speak.
So well, you have to shake itup again.
Judy Oskam (10:49):
Yeah, maybe I love that.
I've heard you use the wordpermission a couple times and I
think that's something that youknow.
Giving people permission to getout of the box or to do things
differently yeah, I think that'sso important and if you start
with that mindset, it soundslike that's the whole premise of
the conference, right Is yeah,be yourself, let's find a way to
(11:13):
move forward.
Vani Naik (11:14):
So yeah, I think the trouble I have is that I don't
think it's different, I thinkit's normal.
Judy Oskam (11:19):
No, but yeah.
Vani Naik (11:22):
Not stream, think it's different, I think it's
normal, but I think, oh, butyeah, not, I will not stream
exactly that's what theydiscover, but people are very
willing to give things a go andum, yeah, I am really delighted
that they also seem to be makingprogress with their writing.
It's not a.
Sometimes I think there's areductive, um, way of thinking
in academia.
It says you can either be aserious writer or you can do a
jigsaw, you know, know, whereasyou can do both, and in fact
they, they foster each other.
(11:43):
So I'm all about the and youcan be a serious academic and
you can do all these otherthings as well.
Judy Oskam (11:50):
Well, and I think you're the way you have it
structured, where the goal is torecognize distraction yeah and
then how to move beyonddistraction.
I think that's what he's usingit and how using it yeah, or
whatever what you want.
Vani Naik (12:07):
I love that and just I mean this is a bit random but
in terms of one of theparticipants even offered to do
a guitar recital tonight afterdinner and I love that, so I'm
so excited about that.
So, yeah, it's great that he,you know, he offered and I was
like I'm really proud that I'vemade an environment where I feel
that they want to do it.
Judy Oskam (12:25):
Oh, that's fantastic, and I think too,
writing it really is a creativeendeavor, even if it's academic
writing, yeah, so I think youtend to think it's different
than writing a novel or creativewriting, yes, but really
writing is so much creativityand so much up to the individual
.
And how, how do you, how do youface that writer's block?
Vani Naik (12:49):
yep, right, yeah, so we do some example again.
This year we've done some freewriting prompts at the start
just to kind of get people, youknow, moving, because you know
that initial first day can be abit tricky.
Um, but yeah, no, I wouldtotally agree with that creative
element.
You know, phd is an originalcontribution to knowledge.
I mean, the word creative isn'tthere, but it is creativity and
(13:09):
I completely agree with youthat sometimes in academia
there's a bit of frowning uponof creativity.
But actually I totally agreethat needs to be more creativity
within not just academia butall walks of life.
You know, that's what we need.
As we're moving into the worldchanging constantly, we need to
adapt and I think being creativeis definitely one of the key
(13:30):
skills.
Judy Oskam (13:30):
Yeah, I love that.
Any parting words you wouldlike to that we haven't covered
that you want to touch?
So I would say just say yes tothings.
I mean, we met like fiveminutes ago, I don't I yeah.
So I would say just say yes tothings.
You never know what mighthappen, so yeah.
Well, I love your spirit and your energy is
(13:51):
infectious and I'm sure some ofmy faculty would love to come
over here to Scotland.
Vani Naik (13:55):
I'm a fan Retreat.
Yes.
Because I'm thinking this wouldbe something that other
organizations and departmentsnot just academia but other
organizations could model Peoplehave retreats all the time but
to actually include some ofthose other elements that help
build culture.
I think Absolutely, because I think, the more you
(14:17):
know, there's lots of change inthe world with technology, but I
really believe it's thatconnection, human to human, that
ultimately is what brings ustogether.
So to foster that in a workingenvironment I think is really
key and totally agree it couldbe any organization.
I have a friend who's anecologist and he's like you know
they have to write reports andthey find it tricky to write
reports.
You know, exactly the samething could work as well.
(14:40):
I love that Just say yes, justsay yes, just say yes.
I love that, thank you.
Thank you so much, Judy, Idelight.
Judy Oskam (14:48):
I'll add some information about the writing
retreat in the show notes.
You can also reach out to Vanion LinkedIn.
Well, remember if you've got astory to share or know someone
who does reach out to me atjudyoskam.
com Thanks for listening.
Are you a professor or a writer and have you ever
struggled with finding the timeto get your writing done?
Well, I can certainly relate.
Welcome to Stories of Changeand Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam.
While teaching a class forTexas State at Queen Margaret
University in Scotland, Istumbled upon a writing retreat
(00:24):
designed for academics and thecoordinator, Vani Naik, was open
to a short interview on myiPhone.
Vani and I talked about writingcreativity and the challenges
we all face when staring at theblank page or computer screen,
and she should know.
Dr Vani Naik is an expert onacademic careers.
(00:46):
Her PhD work focused on womenprofessors in engineering.
In one of her roles, she servesas a researcher developer at
Edinburgh Napier University inScotland.
Our conversation focuses on thepurpose of the writing retreat
and offers some tips for dealingwith distraction.
(01:07):
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Vani Naik (01:12):
And what we're doing here is a three-day writing
retreat for academics andpostgraduate researchers doing
PhDs, and we bring them away tothis separate space and there's
an option to stay residentiallyso staying overnight in the
halls of residence and weprovide all the um, the food
(01:32):
that you need your breakfast,lunch and dinner.
So essentially they can justfocus on their writing projects,
whatever that may be.
So it could be the writing anarticle for phd researchers
could be working on their thesisum, so it's whatever writing
projects that they want to kindof focus on.
So we bring that here as aseparate space from their
day-to-day lives.
Judy Oskam (01:53):
And why is that important to really separate?
Vani Naik (01:57):
I think many people try to get writing done in
between lots of daily demands,but, as you might know as a
professor yourself that it'svery, very difficult to get that
done when there's lots of dailydemands.
But, as you might know as aprofessor yourself that it's
very, very difficult to get thatdone when there's lots of email
creep or people say, oh, can Ijust ask you a question?
There's lots of distractions.
So the idea here is really toprovide as much as possible a
distraction-free space, plus theseparation, I think, of a
(02:20):
different physical environmenthopefully stimulates that
creative energy that they mightneed to get started on some
projects or things they've leftbehind.
Um, the feedback that we've getum is always that they really
value being in that completelydifferent space, that it really
does spark something differentfor them well, and the way
you've got it designed.
Judy Oskam (02:39):
You just came back from a walk, yeah, so you went
out for a walk in nature.
Vani Naik (02:43):
yeah.
So I mean I would say thatthat's something that I have
brought in, because when I firsttook over it was purely just
writing sessions there was.
It was literally turn it rightand me and one thing that I
really wanted to inject is thatcreativity, and partly because
sessions are quite long than 90minute sessions and I think
doing four of those a day isquite intense, and I decided
(03:05):
that the third session I want itto be optional, so I even put
that you can have a nap, becauseif they're staying in their
residences they can go and havea nap.
And I put walk and I'm happy tolead a walk and I've actually
been delighted at how manypeople have come for the walk.
I've also put in again, new forthis year is some yoga
stretching, uh, just lunch.
So we had just today we didyoga for fingers, hands and
(03:26):
wrists and we also now also do a50 second breathing bubble
before each writing session justto get them into the zone.
And you might have seen I alsobrought a jigsaw in as well.
So I just put that out there topeople to just have a little
play, do something a little bitdifferent.
So trying to sort of injectlittle elements of creativity
just for fun, but I think I'msure there's someone who's doing
(03:48):
a research study that somewhere.
But I like to think that ithelps get them.
Um, you know, it will help themeventually in their projects,
but if not, it just gives theman idea that when they're
writing in their own environment, maybe they can also go for a
walk.
We know there's loads so muchresearch that shows how
beneficial it is.
So, um, yeah, just trying togive them options of things they
(04:09):
can do, not just here whilethey're with us, but also things
they can do in their own livesso you're actually teaching them
models and formats andstructures that that might might
help them be more productive.
Yeah, yeah, I'd like to showthem that, you know, one of the
things that I think is reallyimportant is when you're writing
, you're writing, and whenyou're not writing, you're not
writing, because so many peopletry to write and do other things
(04:30):
, and I think it's a clear focus, which is so important, and I
think that's one of the realbenefits.
They always say how amazed theyare how much they can get done
in a short space of time, andthat's easier to do when you're
purely focused on that.
Judy Oskam (04:48):
Why, do you think I mean, we're so distracted in
our day to day?
Is that why this has been asuccessful conference for so
long?
Vani Naik (05:13):
for academics generally, but having the space
and time to do that and I thinkpeople also just, you know,
someone said to me that there'sa grant proposal they want to
write and it's, you know, 10,000words and they just haven't had
the headspace to get into itand having the time to do that
deep thinking and that deep workwithout being distracted, I
think is really helpful.
Judy Oskam (05:29):
Well, I know when I've worked on projects in the
past and I've done documentaryand editing and you need blocks
and blocks of time.
Vani Naik (05:37):
Yeah.
Judy Oskam (05:38):
And it's impossible sometimes to rearrange your
schedule for that.
Vani Naik (05:43):
Yes, we try to organize these well in advance
so people can kind of almostbreathe a sigh of relief even in
.
We're in June now, so let's sayeven I think I announced it
like February, March, so thatthey know the days are coming,
so they can sort of be calmknowing that time is coming,
Because once you block it in adiary it's there, you know.
I think creating a spaceafterwards can be tricky, but
(06:04):
once it's in, it's in.
Judy Oskam (06:05):
Yeah, yeah.
What are some tips that you'vethat you've learned from doing
the conference on things thatreally work for people, because
you put out the puzzles thisyear, so you're kind of
iterating as you go.
Vani Naik (06:17):
Yeah, absolutely, I like to innovate, I like to.
One of the things that has beenreally helpful is giving them
the permission at the verybeginning and saying please put
your out-of-office reply on youremails, like setting that tone,
also just being very explicit.
Explicit, like, please put yourphones away if you can.
Obviously some people havereasons where they need to have
their phones nearby, but pleasephysically put them away.
(06:39):
You know, you don't need toeven look at them again.
Just having that community ofpeople buying into that really,
really helps.
Um, and one thing I've been sodelightfully um, surprised that
people were willing to give theyoga a go.
I wasn't sure it was anexperiment this year, but no
shoes came off and I chose yogasessions that were standing,
only ones that you didn't haveto do and you know sort of
(07:01):
pretzel like shapes.
That would be good for me.
I could not do that, yeah, so,but I made it kind of ones that
would be.
The first one was office yoga,next one was for hands and
wrists, and people have goneinto it and I think that's
really good.
But for me, a really key part ofwhether people are willing to
do that is how included theyfeel.
(07:22):
So I really make sure on thefirst day we spend time on
introductions.
I put everyone's name up sothat because they all don't know
each other Some of them of them, you know they come from all
over, yeah, and use their namesand I get to know them a little
bit and I think those smallthings mean that they are
willing to buy in becausethey're not nobody, they're
somebody to me.
Um, I don't know them reallywell, but I think they know.
(07:44):
Like, if they don't come, Ijust say are you okay?
Just checking you're fine, um,and I think that might be a
little bit absent, I think, fromeveryday academic life.
You know, people are quiteindependent, as rightly so, um,
but just to for them to knowthat you know I care about them
and making sure that they'reokay and that that seems to
hopefully, and you know, fosterthe environment where people are
(08:04):
willing to try things well, Ithink everyone needs to be seen,
right, everybody wants to beseen absolutely and especially
when their work is so personal.
Judy Oskam (08:13):
Yes, it's writing and it's their.
It's their livelihood and theirlife.
Yeah, so I think you have someelements there, but have you
tried meditation at all?
Have you included some of that?
Vani Naik (08:25):
oh we, I won't call it meditation, but it'd be a
breathing, like a really slowinhale and exhale because, um,
you know, meditation can havereligious roots.
I want to make sure I just keepthat kind of secular, but that
has gone down well.
But yeah, that's something thatyou know.
I can always invite people atthe end if they would like to do
that a bit more.
(08:45):
That could be next year'sinnovation.
Judy Oskam (08:48):
Well, what is your background to get you into this?
Oh wow, how okay you get intothis uh, it's a great question.
Vani Naik (08:55):
So I'm a teacher by background originally, but then
I did a PhD and through PhD, thebits that I was doing was
always trying to fostercommunity.
I set up a writing group evenwhen I was a PhD student and I
really enjoyed those things thatwere distractions, quote,
unquote and then I realized thatthis was an actual job.
So I had the pleasure ofgetting this job at Edinburgh
(09:17):
and AP University as researchdeveloper and that basically
allows me to try out all thesethings.
And, honestly, I had a terribletime during my PhD which I'm
very open about and for me itwas during that time to really
think about all the ways that Icould try to build community
things that I needed, and havingthe position now to make those
(09:38):
things happen for other people.
You know, hopefully most peopleare having a much better time,
but even whether you're having agood time or less good time,
these kind of activities arethere to help you.
You know they're there foreveryone.
So, um, you know, most of thetime I'm doing it for myself
because I'm like, hey, a jigsawwill be fun, you know, just to
do another.
You know it's when the break.
The teachers are right.
Judy Oskam (09:57):
We we keep making it fun so that we enjoy this
bell and students come along.
They're good.
So, yeah, I think that's partof it too, and I love that that
you really are pulling from yourown background.
Vani Naik (10:09):
Oh, oh definitely, yeah, I, I, I know that
community was really importantfor me, for people to see me and
and to recognize how I worked,and I know I feel very fortunate
that in my role I have thefreedom to to be, to innovate
and bring new things in and say,oh, let's try this.
Oh, actually, I think we should.
You know, I didn't ask foranyone permission, anyone's
(10:29):
permission.
I okay, I'm bringing it.
It's a jigsaw, but you know,some micromanagers might say, no
, that's um, not serious, toofun, it's not serious enough.
So I just brought it.
I didn't force anyone, I justput a count of the pieces, make
sure they were all there, andand then people seem to be doing
them like okay, yeah, okay,yeah.
So I only brought one andsomeone seems to be finishing it
as we speak.
So well, you have to shake itup again.
Judy Oskam (10:49):
Yeah, maybe I love that.
I've heard you use the wordpermission a couple times and I
think that's something that youknow.
Giving people permission to getout of the box or to do things
differently yeah, I think that'sso important and if you start
with that mindset, it soundslike that's the whole premise of
the conference, right Is yeah,be yourself, let's find a way to
(11:13):
move forward.
Vani Naik (11:14):
So yeah, I think the trouble I have is that I don't
think it's different, I thinkit's normal.
Judy Oskam (11:19):
No, but yeah.
Vani Naik (11:22):
Not stream, think it's different, I think it's
normal, but I think, oh, butyeah, not, I will not stream
exactly that's what theydiscover, but people are very
willing to give things a go andum, yeah, I am really delighted
that they also seem to be makingprogress with their writing.
It's not a.
Sometimes I think there's areductive, um, way of thinking
in academia.
It says you can either be aserious writer or you can do a
jigsaw, you know, know, whereasyou can do both, and in fact
they, they foster each other.
(11:43):
So I'm all about the and youcan be a serious academic and
you can do all these otherthings as well.
Judy Oskam (11:50):
Well, and I think you're the way you have it
structured, where the goal is torecognize distraction yeah and
then how to move beyonddistraction.
I think that's what he's usingit and how using it yeah, or
whatever what you want.
Vani Naik (12:07):
I love that and just I mean this is a bit random but
in terms of one of theparticipants even offered to do
a guitar recital tonight afterdinner and I love that, so I'm
so excited about that.
So, yeah, it's great that he,you know, he offered and I was
like I'm really proud that I'vemade an environment where I feel
that they want to do it.
Judy Oskam (12:25):
Oh, that's fantastic, and I think too,
writing it really is a creativeendeavor, even if it's academic
writing, yeah, so I think youtend to think it's different
than writing a novel or creativewriting, yes, but really
writing is so much creativityand so much up to the individual
.
And how, how do you, how do youface that writer's block?
Vani Naik (12:49):
yep, right, yeah, so we do some example again.
This year we've done some freewriting prompts at the start
just to kind of get people, youknow, moving, because you know
that initial first day can be abit tricky.
Um, but yeah, no, I wouldtotally agree with that creative
element.
You know, phd is an originalcontribution to knowledge.
I mean, the word creative isn'tthere, but it is creativity and
(13:09):
I completely agree with youthat sometimes in academia
there's a bit of frowning uponof creativity.
But actually I totally agreethat needs to be more creativity
within not just academia butall walks of life.
You know, that's what we need.
As we're moving into the worldchanging constantly, we need to
adapt and I think being creativeis definitely one of the key
(13:30):
skills.
Judy Oskam (13:30):
Yeah, I love that.
Any parting words you wouldlike to that we haven't covered
that you want to touch?
So I would say just say yes tothings.
I mean, we met like fiveminutes ago, I don't I yeah.
So I would say just say yes tothings.
You never know what mighthappen, so yeah.
Well, I love your spirit and your energy is
(13:51):
infectious and I'm sure some ofmy faculty would love to come
over here to Scotland.
Vani Naik (13:55):
I'm a fan Retreat.
Yes.
Because I'm thinking this wouldbe something that other
organizations and departmentsnot just academia but other
organizations could model Peoplehave retreats all the time but
to actually include some ofthose other elements that help
build culture.
I think Absolutely, because I think, the more you
(14:17):
know, there's lots of change inthe world with technology, but I
really believe it's thatconnection, human to human, that
ultimately is what brings ustogether.
So to foster that in a workingenvironment I think is really
key and totally agree it couldbe any organization.
I have a friend who's anecologist and he's like you know
they have to write reports andthey find it tricky to write
reports.
You know, exactly the samething could work as well.
(14:40):
I love that Just say yes, justsay yes, just say yes.
I love that, thank you.
Thank you so much, Judy, Idelight.
Judy Oskam (14:48):
I'll add some information about the writing
retreat in the show notes.
You can also reach out to Vanion LinkedIn.
Well, remember if you've got astory to share or know someone
who does reach out to me atjudyoskam.
com Thanks for listening.
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