March 23, 2025 • 41 mins
On this episode, I'm excited to share my interview with J.R. Gonzales. J.R. shares his remarkable journey from growing up in South Texas to becoming a successful entrepreneur, speaker, and podcaster. He's also a proud Texas State University graduate.
J.R. recognizes his Latino heritage as a superpower that changed the trajectory of his life and career. He traces his family roots to the 1700's and says 'my ancestors never crossed the border, the border crossed them."
A passionate and engaging storyteller, J.R. Gonzales talks about the importance of family, culture and education.
You will learn how:
- J.R. navigated Texas State University in the late 1970s as one of the few Latino students
- Family can support a growth mindset
- Education is a tool to combat discrimination
- Why the Latino Business Report podcast was created
- J.R. met six US presidents and stood on the Great Wall of China 13 times
- Confidence and social intelligence are key elements of success
- Asking the right questions shapes your future
- Swimming with Ralph, the swimming pig, impacted the course of J.R.'s career
If you've got a story to share or know someone who does, reach out to me and let's connect.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Judy Oskam (00:02):
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam and I'm excitedto share my interview with JR
Gonzales.
What an interesting individual,a character, a storyteller.
Jr talks about the impact offamily, culture and key decision
points.
Yes, he's an entrepreneur, aspeaker, a trainer and a
(00:25):
podcaster.
He's also a proud Texas StateUniversity graduate and he's
been a guest lecturer in ourgraduate program.
Well, I thoroughly enjoyed myinterview with JR.
We did talk about his familyand his passion for sharing the
achievements of the Latinocommunity.
You'll also hear how hisexperience with a swimming pig
(00:48):
just might have changed thecourse of his career.
Well, I hope you enjoy ourconversation as much as I did.
J.
R.
Gonzales, can you introduceyourself a little bit?
Give your elevator pitch, ifyou will.
J.R. Gonzales (01:03):
Elevator pitch.
Okay, yes, Thank you.
First of all, thank you verymuch for having me on this
episode of your podcast.
As J.
R.
Gonzales, I am a Bobcat, aproud Bobcat graduate of class
of 81.
And currently, I mean I've beenvery, very busy.
Currently I do professionaldevelopment, speaker training,
(01:25):
involved in a lot of nonprofitwork.
I've had an outstanding or whatI consider, a very blessed, a
very fortunate lifetime andcareer, and a lot of it started
right there.
At the time that was SouthwestTexas State University, now
Texas State.
Judy Oskam (01:41):
Well, I love it.
Well, you're an entrepreneur,You're a speaker, you know,
nationally known on all of thosefronts and you also host the
podcast Latino Business Report.
J.R. Gonzales (01:53):
Well, you're very kind and I do a lot of
things, and some people say I'ma jack of all trades, a master
at none.
I like to think that I prettymuch master a lot of things, but
once I master it I get bored.
Let's go find something else.
So I've been very fortunate inmy lifetime not actually to be
working in an industry that Ienjoy working in what I studied
(02:15):
in school and also have theflexibility.
If I have a new idea I go well,heck, let's just quit this and
go try something new for a while.
Judy Oskam (02:24):
I love that and I love that spirit too, and when I
was talking to you on campus acouple weeks ago, you mentioned
that when you were walkingacross when you were younger, in
your younger days and yourcollege days, you're walking
across campus and you had somekind of a revelation.
Let's start there and see wherewe go.
J.R. Gonzales (02:42):
Oh, wow, okay, yeah, the revelation, it was
well.
First of all, let me start offby saying that my intention back
when I was what?
16, 17 years old and thinkingabout colleges with me, it was
never a choice if I go tocollege, my mother was when you
go to college.
So I didn't have a choice andthe idea was to go to two years
(03:05):
down in San Marcos and finish upat the University of Texas.
Being raised in Austin, I was abig Longhorn fan.
That was the idea.
However, after a couple ofsemesters and a year or so at
now Texas State, I said no, I'mnot going to transfer.
I like this campus and thisuniversity too much, especially
the people.
But one of the things I domention, especially in light of
(03:29):
all this current political stuffwith DEI and everything else
and inclusion and diversity, Ijokingly say when I enrolled at
Texas State that I increased theHispanic population on campus
by about 33 percent becausethere was me, there was the
(03:50):
cafeteria ladies and there wasthe groundskeepers and that was
about it.
It was not a very diverse school.
There wasn't many students ofcolor and of course, that has
since changed tremendously,since I'm very proud of that
fact.
But it was also a littledifficult in going there because
there wasn't.
I didn't have that culturalexperience.
I had very few students, otherpeers that had a similar
(04:12):
background as me.
So it was a little difficultadjusting but we made the
adjustments.
Got into a couple brawls everynow and then over it, but it was
that mental adjustment that Ihad to make that got me through.
For example, I had a couple ofin a dormitory I lived.
I have a couple of guys thatlived in the room next door and
(04:33):
they were.
They were students and theywere also cowboys.
They were rodeo riders One wasa rodeo clown, one was a bull
rider and they used to give me ahard time.
They'd call me every name inthe book.
They called me Taco, bender,greaser, spick, I mean, you just
name it.
They were just in a kiddingkind of way, but they were just
being mean spirited.
Judy Oskam (04:53):
Yeah, yeah.
J.R. Gonzales (04:54):
So one day I just said that's it, you dumb
redneck, blankety, blank blank.
And I said, guys, you know youshould be thanking me, you
should be thanking me and mykind he goes.
What are you talking about?
I go think about it, guys.
Do you think, did horses comeover on the Mayflower?
No, it was the Spanishconquistadores that brought them
(05:14):
into Mexico and it was theMustang herds that grew and it
was the Mexican vaqueros thatactually showed the Anglo
settlers how to be cowboys.
So without that culture you'dnever be doing what you're doing
on weekends and being rodeoriders and everything else.
So it was an understanding thatthe tapestry or the culture,
the Hispanic culture, is wovenso much into what's currently
(05:37):
Texas and, of course, the UnitedStates.
But back in the 70s we justdidn't get it.
It was relatively new, but I hadan epiphany into my sophomore
year.
I was just tired.
I was tired, I was ready toquit, I was ready to drop out of
(05:57):
school and go to work doingsomething full time.
I was working.
That summer, thanks to thelocal Chamber of Commerce, I got
a job working a constructionsite and it was in Hunter, texas
, and it was at a cement plantthat's just right outside of San
Marcos and we were coming homeon the work bus.
We had a work bus that daybecause it saved gas taking your
own car and the bus took analternative route for the first
(06:21):
time.
It drove by Sewell Park and Iwas looking out the window.
It's 100, what it was?
104, 105 degrees that day, hardhats, long you know, steel-toed
boots, long-sleeved shirts,blue jeans, just tired, just
smelling like a locker roombecause of the sweat and all the
other people in the bus.
(06:41):
And I look over at Sewell Parkand I see co-eds laying out in
the sun.
I see guys playing hacky sack bythe river enjoying floating in
their inner tubes, and it was arealization.
I mean, I just got angry.
I got angry why am I having towork on weekends?
Why am I having to work allspring break and all summer to
(07:05):
make money to help pay tuitionor to buy books or to make the
rent?
I mean, it just didn't seemfair and I said that's it.
But then, as my eyes focused onsomething, I just had the
epiphany hit.
Where I go wait a minute, jr,why are you mad?
I go look at it out there.
(07:26):
You had people laying out in thesun trying to get brown as
they're studying their Spanishbooks.
I go wait a minute, I'm alreadybrown.
God gave me that.
I speak Spanish already, so Ifelt I was ahead of the game.
, J udy, that's what kind ofchanged it.
From then on, my whole mindsetswitched.
(07:48):
Instead of being woe is me, itwas to kind of like I have the
advantage.
So, as some people looked at mylife or who I was as maybe a
disadvantage, a young Latinominority kid trying to make his
way through college, it justswitched my whole mindset and I
think that's what reallycatapulted myself into my career
(08:12):
moves, my things that I decidedto do and I have that attitude
that, hey, there's nothing Ican't do if I put my mind to it
and it's helped me all throughlife.
It's gotten me in trouble a fewtimes, but for the most part
it's's been, it's been, uh, ithas served me well well, was
there something in yourchildhood or your parents, or
where did you learn that?
Judy Oskam (08:33):
how did you learn that mindset?
That's because that's a realgrowth mindset, right there it
was.
J.R. Gonzales (08:39):
I mean, I was very fortunate.
I was born in the lower RioGrande Valley, Mercedes, Texas,
mercedes, right there on theMexican-US border.
Mom was a teacher and dad wasin the military.
So we kind of moved around inmy younger years from base to
base.
But my dad used to tell me whenI was young he'd go, mijo, let
me tell you something, son, hegoes.
(09:01):
It's unfortunate that you'reprobably going to have to work
twice as hard as the person nextto you just to stay even Right.
And I didn't get it at thattender age.
And he's like why would I IfI'm working twice as hard?
I should be, you know, head andshoulders above everybody else.
But he was referring to justyou know the time and when he
was telling me that there wasthe 60s, there was civil rights
(09:23):
movements, there was prejudiceand bigotry, everything that
still happened.
You still had restaurants thatsaid no dogs, no Mexicans.
You know were posted on theoutside.
So I think it was the thing thatI'm going to have to just work
hard and the fact that myparents were able to help me out
my first semester in college,first two semesters actually.
(09:46):
Then after that I was on my ownstudent loans, working whatever
, and they got me kind ofacclimated and after that I was
on my own and I really have togive both my parents a lot of
credit, both loving parents,caring parents and, like I said,
it wasn't if I go to college,it's when I go to college and
that determination that I can, Ican do it.
So I kind of took that attitudegoing in and then as a
(10:10):
realization I go, go.
Oh heck, this is a wholedifferent ball game yeah the,
the campus, the, the activities.
but because of some thingscoming out of high school, it's
very active.
In high school, um, playedfootball, uh, forensically, you
know, I, I, I did differentextracurricular activities and
help develop my overall socialskill sets, if you will,
(10:34):
interpersonal relationships andskill sets and social mannerisms
.
So that kind of helped me breakthrough some of the ice at
Texas State and then from thereon I just started getting
involved.
Student government was thething that I got involved in
mostly and I kind of found thatas my little corner of the world
and just excelled from there.
Judy Oskam (10:57):
I see you sort of as an educator and a storyteller,
of course, and I'm sure you havea lot of stories.
J.R. Gonzales (11:06):
Oh, I got some stories Let me tell you.
We won't even talk about thefirst.
It was the first week of school.
It was the first week of school.
It was the first week of schooland I ended up in handcuffs
with two cameras.
I thought I was going to jailand I talked my way out of it,
but that's for a different time.
That is for a different time.
Judy Oskam (11:25):
Well, but my point is you're educating.
You changed your mind, yourmindset, and you decided how can
I then move forward?
And I see you helping otherpeople do the same.
I see you on your podcasthelping others.
You taught one of our graduateclasses this last semester and I
(11:46):
see you sharing your knowledge,but also your passion and your
spirit, with our students, and Ithink that's something that
started maybe from an early age.
I think it was.
J.R. Gonzales (11:59):
And, of course, not to leave out, I always
prefer getting interns out ofTexas State.
Judy Oskam (12:04):
Oh, that's nice to hear.
Love the interns.
J.R. Gonzales (12:06):
We'll nurture them, help them find jobs,
whatever it takes.
But I think a lot of it was myupbringing in that as other kids
were trick-or-treating back inthe day.
I mean, I used to gotrick-or-treating, but I also
was.
My mom had a little orange boxof collecting for UNICEF or
something along those times.
My dad had a very strong workethic and he made sure he
(12:31):
instilled that in me and itwasn't a matter of you know, son
, you can get out there and work.
I remember one particular thingthat really kind of stayed with
me is dad was putting in a newyard, spreading the dirt,
getting the sod, and he hired acouple of folks from the work
(12:55):
quarter you know, undocumentedworkers, spanish speakers and he
got the wheelbarrows and gotall the equipment and everything
.
And he calls me over and saysJack, come here.
Yes, sir, he goes, all right,you're in charge.
I got to go, you're in chargeof these guys.
Make sure there's the dirts onthe yard, make sure everything's
covered and then start plantingthe grass.
And he gave me instructions andI kind of I'd been through that
before so I knew kind of whatto do.
And he goes okay, you're incharge, I go all right, then see
(13:18):
you later.
He goes well, I go.
Well, what he goes.
Where's your shovel?
Where's your wheelbarrow?
Where are your gloves?
I thought I was in charge.
I go.
No, yeah, you're in charge, butyou're working right alongside
them.
Judy Oskam (13:32):
Next to them.
J.R. Gonzales (13:33):
Yeah and I go okay.
So I kind of learned the workethic in that if you're going to
be a boss or you're going to bein charge, you've got to learn
how to do it.
And so as I sat there andworked side by side with these
guys, talking to them, I learneda lot about their life and some
of their obstacles andhardships that they've had, and
(13:53):
it was a realization howfortunate I really was.
So hard work has never botheredme, If you ask my wife and
anybody else around.
I try to avoid it wheneverpossible because I put a lot of
it in at a young age, but it'snot a problem.
I'm one of those individualsthat, to me, if I enjoy doing it
(14:14):
, it's not necessarily work andI'll put in, you know, 60, 70
hours a week if need be in doingsomething I enjoy.
Judy Oskam (14:21):
Sure, sure, well, and something you enjoy, I think
, is the podcast.
Tell us how that started andwhat your goal is for that.
J.R. Gonzales (14:32):
The podcast is kind of funny.
It was a pandemic.
A lot of stuff was happeningand then since, as you mentioned
before, I had a lot of, I woulddo a lot of speaking
engagements, a lot of afterdinner speeches, a lot of I'd be
a keynote speaker at a chamber,event or an organization.
I'd also do a lot ofprofessional development,
training, and so when pandemichit and we were kind of locked
(14:53):
down, I didn't have that outletto express myself.
I didn't have that outlet toget in front of a group of
people and and tell my storiesor go through some training.
I said, okay, well, let's trythis podcast thing.
Now everybody has a podcast, itseems like.
But at the same respect, I go,I'm going to make mine.
I didn't do a lot of researchon podcasts.
(15:13):
I just said you know what I'mgoing to do it, the way I want
to do it, and right wrong, Ijust started.
And then I'd tell people well,maybe after JR, when are you
going to start monetizing?
When are you going to startdoing this, when are you going
to start doing that?
And I go, hey, give me, let mehave about 100 episodes under my
belt, and then I'll startgetting serious with it, and so
(15:33):
I just dropped episode number106, so we're past that 100 mark
.
That's great.
And we went ahead and we got anice logo, we got a decent
website, we got some merch, youknow, to go along with it, we
got some shirts and some capsand so really just having fun
with it.
The intent is not necessarilyto monetize, but to get out
(15:55):
there and kind of make friendsand tell stories.
And, Judy, I think thatstorytelling is important
because as a community, as aLatino community, hispanic
community, here, we don't tellour stories enough.
A lot of the stories arerelated by other people who
aren't even Hispanic, and Idon't want to get into it.
But now more than ever, withthe political climate, with the
stuff we're talking about massdeportation, about all the woes
(16:18):
of the world, and we'recriminals and we're drug dealers
and everything else, it's alittle discouraging to get up in
the morning and face that onthe news pretty regularly and
it's kind of like well, wait aminute, we were actually here
first.
This was our, this was our, our, our country, before it was
anybody else's.
(16:38):
I mean, I'm often asked well, jr, what are you?
And I go as I traveled indifferent parts of the world or
different parts of the country,because a lot of people just
can't figure out who I am.
I go well, I'm, I'm, I'mMexican, mexican-american.
Oh, so your parents are fromMexico?
No, oh, so your grandparentsare from Mexico?
No, not really.
Well then yourgreat-grandparents are from
(17:00):
Mexico?
Nope, wrong again.
Well, how in the world are youMexican-American if nobody ever
came from Mexico?
It was real simple.
My ancestors never crossed theborder.
The border crossed them,because I can track my family
roots to about 1710, when theycame over from the
Portugal-Spain area into Mexico,migrated up and settled in
(17:21):
northern Mexico, which is nowTexas.
So it's amazing what a war cando.
One day we're cattle ranchersand landowners and the next day
we're squatters and thievescattle thieves.
So the war kind of changedeverything.
It's kind of funny, it's kindof a family joke.
On my mom's side we actuallyhave original Spanish land
grants from Spain that show weown most of what's now in
(17:45):
Brownsville, texas.
But I really doubt we're evergoing to win any kind of court
battle to get that back, goingto win any kind of court battle
to get that back.
But so families have been herefor generations and there's a
realization that in my mind.
I feel that I'm very fortunate.
I have a good education, I'vebeen blessed.
I've been blessed with the giftof gab.
I can tell stories, and solet's get those stories out
(18:06):
there and tell as many as we can, not only to educate our own
community as to the achievementsand accomplishments, but to
also educate the non-Hispaniclistener or folks out there.
He goes look, you know, there'sa lot of things that are really
going on that you take forgranted and don't even realize.
Judy Oskam (18:26):
Exactly Well, and the Latino Business Report.
It's about more than justbusiness, but everything is
business right.
It just crosses over everything.
J.R. Gonzales (18:36):
Well, I call it the Latino business report.
In hindsight I probably shouldhave came up with a different
name, but at the time it seemedright.
But as it evolved.
We talk about people inbusiness.
We talk you know what's yourbusiness, what are you doing?
We talk about business, ofcourse, but we also talk about
individuals, success stories,what motivated them, why they do
(18:59):
things, and I've come acrosssome amazing individuals that
just blow me away going wow, andI've had some fun with it.
One of my favorite podcasts isI interviewed Luis Guzman, the
actor, the one that comes out onthe Addams Family on Wednesday
on Netflix.
He's been around for a longtime.
He was a great interview.
I've really enjoyed some of theinterviews that I've done and I
(19:21):
think to your point, it's myoutlet.
I'm a storyteller, I'm a talker.
It's hard to just shut me up.
In fact, when I was in highschool, it was one of the things
I was always getting in troublefor for talking too much, and
now I get paid a decent amountof money, that's good.
I love it.
I want to go back to thosecounselors and teachers and go.
You know, look what I made onthis one hour show.
(19:42):
You know, in a 20-minute speechI made this much.
You know you made that morethan the entire month of your
salary back then, but it's fun,it's fun.
So the podcast kind of evolved.
I'm looking forward to doingmore stuff with it, getting a
little more creative and justgetting a little more creative,
(20:03):
innovative and just chase downthose guests that are hard to
chase down.
That's the goal.
I can get all kinds of guests,but let me find that interesting
guest that's really going toresonate well with the audience
and people will go like, wow,how in the world did you get
that person?
Judy Oskam (20:18):
Well, I think you should also do some solo
episodes that are themed andspecific, because, you're right,
you said it, you have the giftof gab, but you also have a
front row seat to such a richhistory, not only your own, but
in Texas, and you can help tellthat story.
(20:39):
So I would challenge you to dosome solos.
That would really beinteresting.
J.R. Gonzales (20:44):
Is that a challenge?
Yeah, that's a challenge.
Judy Oskam (20:47):
I'm throwing it at you.
J.R. Gonzales (20:49):
And I might do that.
Judy Oskam (20:50):
I mean actually thinking about it's changing up
um and doing I don't, I don'tthink I want to steady um no,
but sprinkle some in sprinklesome, that's a way, I'm looking
at doing some more solos as welland it's it's a little variety,
you know, gives you a littlevariety, but some of your
stories I mean you could takeone instance and really explain
(21:11):
all the nuances, and even youryour first days at Texas state
and how you navigated that thosethe you know, the rodeo cowboy
people, I mean that's a, that'sa teachable moment there.
J.R. Gonzales (21:25):
Well, I have to tell you what's a teachable
moment and I don't tell it often, but since you challenged, I
might do a podcast with it.
One of my jobs, one of my veryfirst jobs at Texas State is you
know, I said my parentssupported me for the first two
semesters.
After that I was on my own.
But I got a job at AquarenaSprings when it was open and my
(21:47):
job was I was a swimmer, I swamwith Ralph the swimming pig.
Judy Oskam (21:52):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
J.R. Gonzales (21:55):
For about two and a half, a little over two
semesters I swam with that damndarn pig.
That is a story and that is thestories.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Judy Oskam (22:07):
But that pig.
Maybe I saw you during thattime because I came.
You may have.
I might have seen you back then.
J.R. Gonzales (22:14):
I would love to.
I mean, this was before youknow cameras on phones and
everything.
Yeah, I know I would love tofind a picture of myself.
You know swimming.
You know 25, 30 feet underwaterin that underwater submarine,
back dressed up as Glurpo.
You know one of the witchdoctors.
Yes, I mean we had the witchdoctors, we had the mermaids, we
had the swimming pig we had thewhole bit.
(22:36):
Right, right.
So that was a heck of anexperience and that was a really
turning point because, eventhough I felt that I was one of
the worst jobs in the world,people go oh, you're a swimmer,
how cool.
I go, yeah, we swam what?
In a full day?
Maybe five, six shows a day,sometimes maybe seven.
But the thing is, in betweenshows we weren't just idle, we
(22:57):
weren't just, you know,sunbathing, we had to work
around there.
I mean, jr, we've got to goclean out the alligator pits.
I go, are you serious?
Clean out alligator pits?
When they made the moviePiranhas there on the shores of
um, of ocarina springs, back inthe, was it back in the 70s.
(23:18):
Um, they needed a beach and thethey were.
The production company was toocheap to to um to go to a beach.
Well, yeah, to go to a beach orto rent the equipment.
They go, you swimmers.
There's some wheelbarrows andthere's some sand.
Make, make a beach, I go.
Are you freaking, kidding me?
So we created the entire beachfor one of the scenes.
That's a great story.
(23:39):
I love that.
It was like you've got to bekidding me.
And then the worst, not theworst the temperature there in
the water is constant all yearround because it's fed by an
underwater aquifer.
But the rules are you had tohave X amount of people in a
show to do a show, unless it wasthe last show of the day.
(24:00):
So it's December.
Aquarena Springs is about toclose.
It's the last show.
It's cold outside.
One lady, one elderly well, nowshe's probably one elderly at
the time.
When I was 18, 19 years yearsold.
She was elderly she's probably30 yeah, she, she, she buys a
ticket and so we have to do anentire show for I mean like five
people.
Five, six people have to get inthe water.
(24:21):
The announcer, the whole bityeah and so we had to do a show
for one lady and she asked mecan I bring in my dog?
I said, why not?
I mean it's, it's the end ofthe we're all.
We want to go home.
Halfway through the show shehad to go to the restroom and
she goes.
Can you stop the show and pauseit while I go to the restroom?
They go no, ma'am, we got tokeep going.
(24:43):
So she goes.
Well, I bought the ticket andI'm.
Well, I'm going to leave my doghere to watch the show while I
go to the restroom.
So she goes to the restroom andwe're performing for a Scottish
terrier, for the dog.
For a dog.
That was unbelievable.
But I go.
Okay, you know the show must goon.
(25:04):
So there's all kinds of crazythings.
I love that.
But performing for a dog in thewintertime in the last show, In
the water, In the water,freezing, Okay, so here we go.
But it definitely developed asense of endurance, if you will.
Judy Oskam (25:24):
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, and if you look at thatjob and what that taught you,
then all of these jobs teach ussomething and you know, as we
talk to students, you know theyall teach us something.
J.R. Gonzales (25:37):
Well, I'm of the ilk that not only does it teach
you something, but I tellpeople, especially young people,
if you have a job that you hate, if you have a job that you
don't like, just do it.
Do it to the best of yourability, because it's not
forever you know, unless you'remaking license plates in San
Quentin.
But the best of your abilitybecause it's not forever, you
know, unless you're makinglicense plates in San Quentin,
but it's kind of like it willturn.
But let me tell you this, andthis is for the listeners Even
(26:00):
though it sounded pretty cooland I got the job, but after a
while and keep in mind we wereseasonal work, so we didn't even
have to get paid minimum wage.
I was getting like $1.95 anhour back then to swim in the
water.
But the pig experience or theAquarium Spring experience kind
of changed a lot for me becauseright out of school I was kind
(26:24):
of recruited, if you will.
I ended up working for twosenators a US congressman and I
was a senatorial aide in thestate legislature all before the
age of 25.
But what got me on that track isI got a phone call.
Someone recommended me for ajob working at the state capitol
and I got a call from a ladynamed Gail Harris.
Gail says is this JR Gonzalez?
I said yes, ma'am.
(26:44):
She said I understand that youmay be interested in working at
the Capitol this session.
I go, yes, ma'am.
He said well, when can you comesee me?
I go, I can come see you.
Right now he goes, jr, it'sThanksgiving holiday.
Why don't you come see meMonday?
And Monday I go up and I do aninterview and it goes well, and
about a week later I got a calland said you're hired.
(27:05):
I was elated, I mean my firstjob out of college.
I'm working in the statecapitol and when I got there,
one of the jobs I had, one of myfirst duties was to get all
these other files of people whoapplied for the position and
file them away.
Well, me being who I am andkind of curious, I had to look
at some of these applications.
And I'm going my gosh.
How in the world did I get thisjob?
(27:30):
So about a month into it I feelcomfortable enough.
Where I go to the lady, msHarris.
I go Ms Harris, I have aquestion for you.
She goes I got to confess Ilooked at some of those
applications and there were somevery, very qualified people.
She says why me?
And she just kind of smiles andsays Jerry, you asked the wrong
question.
And I go what is the questionthat I should ask?
She goes why did you get theinterview?
There's a lot of qualifiedpeople there, but it was who I
(27:53):
interviewed that I chose fromthere.
She says the question youshould be asking is why did you
get the interview?
I go okay, why did I get theinterview?
She says I was looking throughthe applications.
I go any man who put on hisresume that he swam with a pig
for a living, I just had to meet.
So once you got in here, it wasyour experience, your
(28:13):
personality and everything elsethat got you the job.
And I'm figuring, but I justhad to.
Who in the world swims with apig?
I'd never come across that inmy life.
I probably never will be.
So I just had to meet you, andso it was that that started the
trajectory of everything elsethat I've done in life, and I
mean I'm proud of the fact thatwe're just a poor little Mexican
(28:35):
kid out of South Texas.
I mean I have actually met sixUS presidents six US presidents,
three out of Mexico, presidentsout of other countries.
I've stood on the Great Wall ofChina 13 times.
I've traveled parts of the worldand a lot of it can be related
back to just swimming with thatdamn pig and getting an
interview that opened up thedoors for me to be in Washington
(28:57):
DC for a period of time as well.
Judy Oskam (28:59):
I love that.
Well, and what did that tellyou about asking the right
question?
J.R. Gonzales (29:03):
Exactly.
Judy Oskam (29:04):
Asking the right question.
And then being humble enough tojust vulnerable enough to just
kind of lay it out there.
J.R. Gonzales (29:13):
And it also taught me no matter what the
circumstances are, you put theright spin on it, you can figure
out how to get ahead somehowsome way.
Judy Oskam (29:21):
Yes, oh my gosh, I love that.
See, that needs to be in yourbook as well.
That's a chapter in your book.
J.R. Gonzales (29:30):
Well, somebody asked me about a book and I said
and my standard response ismaybe one day, but right now too
many people are still alive.
Judy Oskam (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, too many people are still alive.
J.R. Gonzales (29:38):
Okay, yes, yes, in fact, the book, the working
title of the book was that I'vebeen playing with, and it's true
and funny, you should mentionit was called Swimming with Pigs
.
Yeah, swimming with Pigs.
What kind of title is that?
Judy Oskam (29:56):
That can go a lot of different places.
J.R. Gonzales (29:59):
It really could.
It really could.
We don't put lipstick on ourpigs, we just swim with them.
Judy Oskam (30:04):
We just swim with them.
That's a whole other thing.
J.R. Gonzales (30:06):
Oh my gosh, yeah , I them, and that's a whole
other thing.
But, um, yeah, I mean, texasstate was um instrumental in my,
in my development.
I learned a lot and what reallysurprised me, even today at my
age, and some of the experiencesthat I have, or some of the
situations that I face, I'lljust my mind will flash back to,
you know, 1979 or so, when I'msitting in a classroom going, oh
(30:27):
, I know that, and then it justkind of pops out of my mouth or
just kind of, and people arelooking at me like, wow, jared,
that was really, that was reallysmart.
And I'm going yeah, I areeducated.
Judy Oskam (30:40):
I learned that Well and I really enjoyed seeing you
interact with our studentsrecently and teaching them what
they need to know to besuccessful and sharing some of
your insight.
I think that's something.
What would you tell studentsabout how to kind of be
comfortable in their own skin,if you will, literally and
(31:03):
figuratively, but what would youtell someone who can learn
something from your background?
J.R. Gonzales (31:12):
Wow, probably the best thing people can learn
from my background is don't do alot of the things I did.
Judy Oskam (31:18):
How about the positive things?
Oh the positive stuff.
J.R. Gonzales (31:24):
Well, let's break that down a little bit.
Let's go back a little bit.
I think for anybody to besuccessful and to be confident,
they have to have confidence inthemselves.
They have to believe inthemselves that they can do it,
Going out there and taking onthe challenge.
If you don't feel good aboutwho you are and yourself and
what you can do, it's going tobe difficult.
(31:45):
Then there's a situation well,I've heard young people go.
Jer, I haven't done much inlife.
I haven't really done much.
I haven't accomplished anything.
So how can I learn from theseexperiences?
I go.
Well, let's talk about theexperiences you've had and as
you start talking about them andresearching them a little bit
(32:07):
more, it's kind of like come on.
I mean, you came from a largefamily, your family didn't have
a whole lot of money.
You had to work your waythrough things.
You overcame these obstacles,you got into school, you passed
all the tests, all the exams.
You're here.
It's not so much where you'vebeen, but where you're going.
Judy Oskam (32:28):
Yeah.
J.R. Gonzales (32:28):
And I also believe that to know where
you're going you have to knowwhere you've been.
No-transcript some of thechallenges they see today in the
(32:50):
business world or getting a jobor making it in society it
ain't anything compared to whatthey've been through already.
So it's kind of like if youhave that confidence that you
can do that, then from then onit's going to be smooth sailing.
Judy Oskam (33:03):
Yeah, and allowing yourself to recognize what
you've accomplished yourself.
J.R. Gonzales (33:08):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I have often, you know,dealing with US senators,
congressmen, foreign diplomats.
Everything at first is kind oflike, oh, this is kind of scary.
But then on the other result.
And the other time I'm goingwait a minute, I've sat down,
I've met so many people in mylife and very fortunate.
(33:29):
I mean, how many people wouldsay I have met six US presidents
in my lifetime?
And I'm going, if I can sit andhave a decent conversation with
some of these guys, this otherperson?
No big deal, we're all peopleyou know.
It's just how you presentyourself and how I don't want to
say how smart you are is howyou present yourself and how
(33:51):
you're.
A lot of it deals with socialintelligence.
Judy Oskam (33:55):
Yeah, capital, social capital.
J.R. Gonzales (33:56):
Social capital and emotional intelligence and
go.
Can you read the situation andknow which cards to play?
Because sometimes some peopleare just.
They may be highly educated butthey're just dumb as dirt when
it comes to some situations.
I'm going my gosh people.
So I've been very fortunate inthat, in that I can usually read
a room, read other people andthen not capitalize, but at
(34:21):
least to know which direction togo in to accomplish whatever
goal we're going to go becausepeople think differently and I
learned that a long time ago isyou appeal to the way people
think.
It may not be your way ofthinking, but you're not trying
to change your way of thinking.
You're just trying to convincethem to do something that maybe
you want them to do, whether itbe buy your product or go in a
(34:42):
direction or vote a certain way.
I often tell people everybodylistens to the same radio
station, wifm what's in it forme?
So once I figure out what theother person wants, it makes it
a lot easier to get to appeal totheir senses.
I love it.
Judy Oskam (34:59):
Well, I can't wait to listen to more of your
podcasts and some of yourstories there, and also read a
future book.
J.R. Gonzales (35:08):
Yeah, the book.
Thing.
Judy Oskam (35:10):
No pressure.
J.R. Gonzales (35:11):
Who knows who knows Transcripts from the
podcast.
Judy Oskam (35:15):
Put those in there, just an idea.
J.R. Gonzales (35:18):
There is an idea , but I think I like the idea of
doing a solo episode or two,because there are times I'll
have a guest and I have to pullmyself back because it's kind of
like no, now you got me going,I just want to get on my foot.
Judy Oskam (35:32):
You have stories to tell and you need to share those
stories.
They will be valuable for thelisteners.
Well, thank you, thank you.
Yes, I'm a fan, let me tell you.
J.R. Gonzales (35:42):
I love it.
I would like to think that I dohave some value to share, and
then a lot of it is.
People have asked sometimes,gerald, what do you attribute
your success to?
And I say, well, first of all,thank you very much for
considering me successful.
I don't, I still don't, I justsay, I look at it.
(36:02):
Is that?
Actually?
When I was in school, I read abook, confessions of an
Advertising man by David Ogilvy,and one of the things, one of
the passages and I'mparaphrasing in the book that
really stuck out in my mind andstill does.
Ogilvie said, I think, thesecret, the secret is you make
your successes public and youkeep your, your failures private
(36:26):
.
And so, as I've kept myfailures private which I have,
many, many, many failures andthen publicize your successes,
it just kind of makes it alittle bit easier that whole
public perception of who you are.
But understanding that everytime you're successful at
something, it's kind of like ithappened for a reason and you
(36:49):
don't get all big-headed aboutit and you just go okay, I made
it through this one.
What's next Exactly?
And let's tackle it by numbersand just don't think that it's
necessarily you.
It may be the position you hold.
It may be the title, it justmay be the right people, the
right circumstances, but I'vegone through things that it's
kind of like I cannot believe.
I talked my way through thisand I was just thinking about it
(37:13):
the other day.
I was when I was up inWashington DC, when I was the
president and CEO of the UnitedStates Hispanic Chamber of
Commerce.
I had some meetings in MexicoCity and I leave DC, and when I
left I forgot I didn't have mypassport with me.
And so they go, what are yougoing to do?
Are you going to cancel thetrip?
I said no, they're depending onme.
So when I got to San Antonio Iwent up to the ticket counter
(37:36):
and said here's my, you know,gonzales, mexico City.
Can I see your passport?
And I didn't have a passportwith me and I talked to the
agent behind the counter.
I smiled, I mean it's not thatI have a.
I mean I didn't flirt, I justsmiled.
I go, okay, look, we startedtalking and she was Hispanic.
(37:59):
So I said where are you from?
And she's from South Texas aswell.
So I played that card, I playedevery card I knew, and by the
end of the conversation she wentahead and let me board.
She broke the rules and let meboard a plane.
This was post-9-11 without apassport going into Mexico City,
and so then I had my passportFedExed to me in Mexico.
Judy Oskam (38:19):
Oh, I was going to say how did you get back?
J.R. Gonzales (38:21):
Yeah, I wasn't going to try to get that lucky
twice.
Judy Oskam (38:24):
Yeah, coming back.
J.R. Gonzales (38:26):
So they FedExed it to me and then I was able to
come back.
But it was a lot of folks gohow do you get away with that?
I go it's not getting away withit, it's just a matter of
having the confidence inyourself and for the most part,
I believe people are good andpeople want to help.
Judy Oskam (38:43):
People want to help you.
I do too, so don't be afraid toask.
Yeah, yeah, don't be afraid toask.
Well, thank you for serving onthe podcast today and I
appreciate your time and sharingyour stories, and we'll have to
do this again.
J.R. Gonzales (38:54):
Let's do.
The next time we do it, I'llhave a different story for you.
Judy Oskam (38:57):
That sounds great.
I look forward to it.
Thanks, JR.
J.R. Gonzales (38:59):
Have a great day .
And thank you for what you do.
This is, this is a great, greatpodcast, great format.
Really enjoy listening to itmyself.
Judy Oskam (39:06):
Great Perfect, all right Perfect.
I love the pig story Love it.
I'm serious about the solopodcast.
J.R. Gonzales (39:16):
Yeah, you should think about that.
The pig story is.
I actually have done one or twothe pig story and I'll let you
go after this.
I was asked to be thecommencement speaker at a high
school.
It was a private school and I'mgoing, what the heck am I going
to talk about?
I got there and it was aprivate school, very upper class
(39:39):
, I mean.
It was nice, it was elegant,and so I said what can these
kids relate to audience, thewhole thing?
And then, lo and behold, whatstarted coming out of my mouth
was the pig story and Iincorporated the pig story into
milestones of successes andmeasurements and everything else
, and the audience was justlooking at me with this dazed
(40:02):
look on their face and I'm going.
oh my gosh, I just bombed thisone.
Then it wasn't until afterwardswhen I heard the applause and
people coming up to me and saidI used to go to Ocarina.
Springs, I probably saw you,yes, and it helped bring up
those younger childhood emotionsand everything.
And I go, man, I got out ofthis one.
Judy Oskam (40:21):
Another one.
J.R. Gonzales (40:23):
And a person wrote on my LinkedIn and I'm
very proud of that post fromthat event.
They wrote about it.
It's probably one of the bestspeaking reviews I've ever had.
But you know, jr is obviously amasterful and experienced
orator and he skillfully didthis and that and engaged with
the audience.
I'm going dang.
I've got to have this guy writeall my stuff, but I got through
(40:45):
it.
But the pig story is somethingthat is definitely real, it
happened and yeah.
Judy Oskam (40:53):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, thank you for sharingyour time and thank you for
listening.
I'll put some information aboutJR and his podcast in the show
notes.
Remember if you've got a storyto share or know someone who
does.
Reach out to me at judyoskam.
com.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam and I'm excitedto share my interview with JR
Gonzales.
What an interesting individual,a character, a storyteller.
Jr talks about the impact offamily, culture and key decision
points.
Yes, he's an entrepreneur, aspeaker, a trainer and a
(00:25):
podcaster.
He's also a proud Texas StateUniversity graduate and he's
been a guest lecturer in ourgraduate program.
Well, I thoroughly enjoyed myinterview with JR.
We did talk about his familyand his passion for sharing the
achievements of the Latinocommunity.
You'll also hear how hisexperience with a swimming pig
(00:48):
just might have changed thecourse of his career.
Well, I hope you enjoy ourconversation as much as I did.
J.
R.
Gonzales, can you introduceyourself a little bit?
Give your elevator pitch, ifyou will.
J.R. Gonzales (01:03):
Elevator pitch.
Okay, yes, Thank you.
First of all, thank you verymuch for having me on this
episode of your podcast.
As J.
R.
Gonzales, I am a Bobcat, aproud Bobcat graduate of class
of 81.
And currently, I mean I've beenvery, very busy.
Currently I do professionaldevelopment, speaker training,
(01:25):
involved in a lot of nonprofitwork.
I've had an outstanding or whatI consider, a very blessed, a
very fortunate lifetime andcareer, and a lot of it started
right there.
At the time that was SouthwestTexas State University, now
Texas State.
Judy Oskam (01:41):
Well, I love it.
Well, you're an entrepreneur,You're a speaker, you know,
nationally known on all of thosefronts and you also host the
podcast Latino Business Report.
J.R. Gonzales (01:53):
Well, you're very kind and I do a lot of
things, and some people say I'ma jack of all trades, a master
at none.
I like to think that I prettymuch master a lot of things, but
once I master it I get bored.
Let's go find something else.
So I've been very fortunate inmy lifetime not actually to be
working in an industry that Ienjoy working in what I studied
(02:15):
in school and also have theflexibility.
If I have a new idea I go well,heck, let's just quit this and
go try something new for a while.
Judy Oskam (02:24):
I love that and I love that spirit too, and when I
was talking to you on campus acouple weeks ago, you mentioned
that when you were walkingacross when you were younger, in
your younger days and yourcollege days, you're walking
across campus and you had somekind of a revelation.
Let's start there and see wherewe go.
J.R. Gonzales (02:42):
Oh, wow, okay, yeah, the revelation, it was
well.
First of all, let me start offby saying that my intention back
when I was what?
16, 17 years old and thinkingabout colleges with me, it was
never a choice if I go tocollege, my mother was when you
go to college.
So I didn't have a choice andthe idea was to go to two years
(03:05):
down in San Marcos and finish upat the University of Texas.
Being raised in Austin, I was abig Longhorn fan.
That was the idea.
However, after a couple ofsemesters and a year or so at
now Texas State, I said no, I'mnot going to transfer.
I like this campus and thisuniversity too much, especially
the people.
But one of the things I domention, especially in light of
(03:29):
all this current political stuffwith DEI and everything else
and inclusion and diversity, Ijokingly say when I enrolled at
Texas State that I increased theHispanic population on campus
by about 33 percent becausethere was me, there was the
(03:50):
cafeteria ladies and there wasthe groundskeepers and that was
about it.
It was not a very diverse school.
There wasn't many students ofcolor and of course, that has
since changed tremendously,since I'm very proud of that
fact.
But it was also a littledifficult in going there because
there wasn't.
I didn't have that culturalexperience.
I had very few students, otherpeers that had a similar
(04:12):
background as me.
So it was a little difficultadjusting but we made the
adjustments.
Got into a couple brawls everynow and then over it, but it was
that mental adjustment that Ihad to make that got me through.
For example, I had a couple ofin a dormitory I lived.
I have a couple of guys thatlived in the room next door and
(04:33):
they were.
They were students and theywere also cowboys.
They were rodeo riders One wasa rodeo clown, one was a bull
rider and they used to give me ahard time.
They'd call me every name inthe book.
They called me Taco, bender,greaser, spick, I mean, you just
name it.
They were just in a kiddingkind of way, but they were just
being mean spirited.
Judy Oskam (04:53):
Yeah, yeah.
J.R. Gonzales (04:54):
So one day I just said that's it, you dumb
redneck, blankety, blank blank.
And I said, guys, you know youshould be thanking me, you
should be thanking me and mykind he goes.
What are you talking about?
I go think about it, guys.
Do you think, did horses comeover on the Mayflower?
No, it was the Spanishconquistadores that brought them
(05:14):
into Mexico and it was theMustang herds that grew and it
was the Mexican vaqueros thatactually showed the Anglo
settlers how to be cowboys.
So without that culture you'dnever be doing what you're doing
on weekends and being rodeoriders and everything else.
So it was an understanding thatthe tapestry or the culture,
the Hispanic culture, is wovenso much into what's currently
(05:37):
Texas and, of course, the UnitedStates.
But back in the 70s we justdidn't get it.
It was relatively new, but I hadan epiphany into my sophomore
year.
I was just tired.
I was tired, I was ready toquit, I was ready to drop out of
(05:57):
school and go to work doingsomething full time.
I was working.
That summer, thanks to thelocal Chamber of Commerce, I got
a job working a constructionsite and it was in Hunter, texas
, and it was at a cement plantthat's just right outside of San
Marcos and we were coming homeon the work bus.
We had a work bus that daybecause it saved gas taking your
own car and the bus took analternative route for the first
(06:21):
time.
It drove by Sewell Park and Iwas looking out the window.
It's 100, what it was?
104, 105 degrees that day, hardhats, long you know, steel-toed
boots, long-sleeved shirts,blue jeans, just tired, just
smelling like a locker roombecause of the sweat and all the
other people in the bus.
(06:41):
And I look over at Sewell Parkand I see co-eds laying out in
the sun.
I see guys playing hacky sack bythe river enjoying floating in
their inner tubes, and it was arealization.
I mean, I just got angry.
I got angry why am I having towork on weekends?
Why am I having to work allspring break and all summer to
(07:05):
make money to help pay tuitionor to buy books or to make the
rent?
I mean, it just didn't seemfair and I said that's it.
But then, as my eyes focused onsomething, I just had the
epiphany hit.
Where I go wait a minute, jr,why are you mad?
I go look at it out there.
(07:26):
You had people laying out in thesun trying to get brown as
they're studying their Spanishbooks.
I go wait a minute, I'm alreadybrown.
God gave me that.
I speak Spanish already, so Ifelt I was ahead of the game.
, J udy, that's what kind ofchanged it.
From then on, my whole mindsetswitched.
(07:48):
Instead of being woe is me, itwas to kind of like I have the
advantage.
So, as some people looked at mylife or who I was as maybe a
disadvantage, a young Latinominority kid trying to make his
way through college, it justswitched my whole mindset and I
think that's what reallycatapulted myself into my career
(08:12):
moves, my things that I decidedto do and I have that attitude
that, hey, there's nothing Ican't do if I put my mind to it
and it's helped me all throughlife.
It's gotten me in trouble a fewtimes, but for the most part
it's's been, it's been, uh, ithas served me well well, was
there something in yourchildhood or your parents, or
where did you learn that?
Judy Oskam (08:33):
how did you learn that mindset?
That's because that's a realgrowth mindset, right there it
was.
J.R. Gonzales (08:39):
I mean, I was very fortunate.
I was born in the lower RioGrande Valley, Mercedes, Texas,
mercedes, right there on theMexican-US border.
Mom was a teacher and dad wasin the military.
So we kind of moved around inmy younger years from base to
base.
But my dad used to tell me whenI was young he'd go, mijo, let
me tell you something, son, hegoes.
(09:01):
It's unfortunate that you'reprobably going to have to work
twice as hard as the person nextto you just to stay even Right.
And I didn't get it at thattender age.
And he's like why would I IfI'm working twice as hard?
I should be, you know, head andshoulders above everybody else.
But he was referring to justyou know the time and when he
was telling me that there wasthe 60s, there was civil rights
(09:23):
movements, there was prejudiceand bigotry, everything that
still happened.
You still had restaurants thatsaid no dogs, no Mexicans.
You know were posted on theoutside.
So I think it was the thing thatI'm going to have to just work
hard and the fact that myparents were able to help me out
my first semester in college,first two semesters actually.
(09:46):
Then after that I was on my ownstudent loans, working whatever
, and they got me kind ofacclimated and after that I was
on my own and I really have togive both my parents a lot of
credit, both loving parents,caring parents and, like I said,
it wasn't if I go to college,it's when I go to college and
that determination that I can, Ican do it.
So I kind of took that attitudegoing in and then as a
(10:10):
realization I go, go.
Oh heck, this is a wholedifferent ball game yeah the,
the campus, the, the activities.
but because of some thingscoming out of high school, it's
very active.
In high school, um, playedfootball, uh, forensically, you
know, I, I, I did differentextracurricular activities and
help develop my overall socialskill sets, if you will,
(10:34):
interpersonal relationships andskill sets and social mannerisms
.
So that kind of helped me breakthrough some of the ice at
Texas State and then from thereon I just started getting
involved.
Student government was thething that I got involved in
mostly and I kind of found thatas my little corner of the world
and just excelled from there.
Judy Oskam (10:57):
I see you sort of as an educator and a storyteller,
of course, and I'm sure you havea lot of stories.
J.R. Gonzales (11:06):
Oh, I got some stories Let me tell you.
We won't even talk about thefirst.
It was the first week of school.
It was the first week of school.
It was the first week of schooland I ended up in handcuffs
with two cameras.
I thought I was going to jailand I talked my way out of it,
but that's for a different time.
That is for a different time.
Judy Oskam (11:25):
Well, but my point is you're educating.
You changed your mind, yourmindset, and you decided how can
I then move forward?
And I see you helping otherpeople do the same.
I see you on your podcasthelping others.
You taught one of our graduateclasses this last semester and I
(11:46):
see you sharing your knowledge,but also your passion and your
spirit, with our students, and Ithink that's something that
started maybe from an early age.
I think it was.
J.R. Gonzales (11:59):
And, of course, not to leave out, I always
prefer getting interns out ofTexas State.
Judy Oskam (12:04):
Oh, that's nice to hear.
Love the interns.
J.R. Gonzales (12:06):
We'll nurture them, help them find jobs,
whatever it takes.
But I think a lot of it was myupbringing in that as other kids
were trick-or-treating back inthe day.
I mean, I used to gotrick-or-treating, but I also
was.
My mom had a little orange boxof collecting for UNICEF or
something along those times.
My dad had a very strong workethic and he made sure he
(12:31):
instilled that in me and itwasn't a matter of you know, son
, you can get out there and work.
I remember one particular thingthat really kind of stayed with
me is dad was putting in a newyard, spreading the dirt,
getting the sod, and he hired acouple of folks from the work
(12:55):
quarter you know, undocumentedworkers, spanish speakers and he
got the wheelbarrows and gotall the equipment and everything
.
And he calls me over and saysJack, come here.
Yes, sir, he goes, all right,you're in charge.
I got to go, you're in chargeof these guys.
Make sure there's the dirts onthe yard, make sure everything's
covered and then start plantingthe grass.
And he gave me instructions andI kind of I'd been through that
before so I knew kind of whatto do.
And he goes okay, you're incharge, I go all right, then see
(13:18):
you later.
He goes well, I go.
Well, what he goes.
Where's your shovel?
Where's your wheelbarrow?
Where are your gloves?
I thought I was in charge.
I go.
No, yeah, you're in charge, butyou're working right alongside
them.
Judy Oskam (13:32):
Next to them.
J.R. Gonzales (13:33):
Yeah and I go okay.
So I kind of learned the workethic in that if you're going to
be a boss or you're going to bein charge, you've got to learn
how to do it.
And so as I sat there andworked side by side with these
guys, talking to them, I learneda lot about their life and some
of their obstacles andhardships that they've had, and
(13:53):
it was a realization howfortunate I really was.
So hard work has never botheredme, If you ask my wife and
anybody else around.
I try to avoid it wheneverpossible because I put a lot of
it in at a young age, but it'snot a problem.
I'm one of those individualsthat, to me, if I enjoy doing it
(14:14):
, it's not necessarily work andI'll put in, you know, 60, 70
hours a week if need be in doingsomething I enjoy.
Judy Oskam (14:21):
Sure, sure, well, and something you enjoy, I think
, is the podcast.
Tell us how that started andwhat your goal is for that.
J.R. Gonzales (14:32):
The podcast is kind of funny.
It was a pandemic.
A lot of stuff was happeningand then since, as you mentioned
before, I had a lot of, I woulddo a lot of speaking
engagements, a lot of afterdinner speeches, a lot of I'd be
a keynote speaker at a chamber,event or an organization.
I'd also do a lot ofprofessional development,
training, and so when pandemichit and we were kind of locked
(14:53):
down, I didn't have that outletto express myself.
I didn't have that outlet toget in front of a group of
people and and tell my storiesor go through some training.
I said, okay, well, let's trythis podcast thing.
Now everybody has a podcast, itseems like.
But at the same respect, I go,I'm going to make mine.
I didn't do a lot of researchon podcasts.
(15:13):
I just said you know what I'mgoing to do it, the way I want
to do it, and right wrong, Ijust started.
And then I'd tell people well,maybe after JR, when are you
going to start monetizing?
When are you going to startdoing this, when are you going
to start doing that?
And I go, hey, give me, let mehave about 100 episodes under my
belt, and then I'll startgetting serious with it, and so
(15:33):
I just dropped episode number106, so we're past that 100 mark
.
That's great.
And we went ahead and we got anice logo, we got a decent
website, we got some merch, youknow, to go along with it, we
got some shirts and some capsand so really just having fun
with it.
The intent is not necessarilyto monetize, but to get out
(15:55):
there and kind of make friendsand tell stories.
And, Judy, I think thatstorytelling is important
because as a community, as aLatino community, hispanic
community, here, we don't tellour stories enough.
A lot of the stories arerelated by other people who
aren't even Hispanic, and Idon't want to get into it.
But now more than ever, withthe political climate, with the
stuff we're talking about massdeportation, about all the woes
(16:18):
of the world, and we'recriminals and we're drug dealers
and everything else, it's alittle discouraging to get up in
the morning and face that onthe news pretty regularly and
it's kind of like well, wait aminute, we were actually here
first.
This was our, this was our, our, our country, before it was
anybody else's.
(16:38):
I mean, I'm often asked well, jr, what are you?
And I go as I traveled indifferent parts of the world or
different parts of the country,because a lot of people just
can't figure out who I am.
I go well, I'm, I'm, I'mMexican, mexican-american.
Oh, so your parents are fromMexico?
No, oh, so your grandparentsare from Mexico?
No, not really.
Well then yourgreat-grandparents are from
(17:00):
Mexico?
Nope, wrong again.
Well, how in the world are youMexican-American if nobody ever
came from Mexico?
It was real simple.
My ancestors never crossed theborder.
The border crossed them,because I can track my family
roots to about 1710, when theycame over from the
Portugal-Spain area into Mexico,migrated up and settled in
(17:21):
northern Mexico, which is nowTexas.
So it's amazing what a war cando.
One day we're cattle ranchersand landowners and the next day
we're squatters and thievescattle thieves.
So the war kind of changedeverything.
It's kind of funny, it's kindof a family joke.
On my mom's side we actuallyhave original Spanish land
grants from Spain that show weown most of what's now in
(17:45):
Brownsville, texas.
But I really doubt we're evergoing to win any kind of court
battle to get that back, goingto win any kind of court battle
to get that back.
But so families have been herefor generations and there's a
realization that in my mind.
I feel that I'm very fortunate.
I have a good education, I'vebeen blessed.
I've been blessed with the giftof gab.
I can tell stories, and solet's get those stories out
(18:06):
there and tell as many as we can, not only to educate our own
community as to the achievementsand accomplishments, but to
also educate the non-Hispaniclistener or folks out there.
He goes look, you know, there'sa lot of things that are really
going on that you take forgranted and don't even realize.
Judy Oskam (18:26):
Exactly Well, and the Latino Business Report.
It's about more than justbusiness, but everything is
business right.
It just crosses over everything.
J.R. Gonzales (18:36):
Well, I call it the Latino business report.
In hindsight I probably shouldhave came up with a different
name, but at the time it seemedright.
But as it evolved.
We talk about people inbusiness.
We talk you know what's yourbusiness, what are you doing?
We talk about business, ofcourse, but we also talk about
individuals, success stories,what motivated them, why they do
(18:59):
things, and I've come acrosssome amazing individuals that
just blow me away going wow, andI've had some fun with it.
One of my favorite podcasts isI interviewed Luis Guzman, the
actor, the one that comes out onthe Addams Family on Wednesday
on Netflix.
He's been around for a longtime.
He was a great interview.
I've really enjoyed some of theinterviews that I've done and I
(19:21):
think to your point, it's myoutlet.
I'm a storyteller, I'm a talker.
It's hard to just shut me up.
In fact, when I was in highschool, it was one of the things
I was always getting in troublefor for talking too much, and
now I get paid a decent amountof money, that's good.
I love it.
I want to go back to thosecounselors and teachers and go.
You know, look what I made onthis one hour show.
(19:42):
You know, in a 20-minute speechI made this much.
You know you made that morethan the entire month of your
salary back then, but it's fun,it's fun.
So the podcast kind of evolved.
I'm looking forward to doingmore stuff with it, getting a
little more creative and justgetting a little more creative,
(20:03):
innovative and just chase downthose guests that are hard to
chase down.
That's the goal.
I can get all kinds of guests,but let me find that interesting
guest that's really going toresonate well with the audience
and people will go like, wow,how in the world did you get
that person?
Judy Oskam (20:18):
Well, I think you should also do some solo
episodes that are themed andspecific, because, you're right,
you said it, you have the giftof gab, but you also have a
front row seat to such a richhistory, not only your own, but
in Texas, and you can help tellthat story.
(20:39):
So I would challenge you to dosome solos.
That would really beinteresting.
J.R. Gonzales (20:44):
Is that a challenge?
Yeah, that's a challenge.
Judy Oskam (20:47):
I'm throwing it at you.
J.R. Gonzales (20:49):
And I might do that.
Judy Oskam (20:50):
I mean actually thinking about it's changing up
um and doing I don't, I don'tthink I want to steady um no,
but sprinkle some in sprinklesome, that's a way, I'm looking
at doing some more solos as welland it's it's a little variety,
you know, gives you a littlevariety, but some of your
stories I mean you could takeone instance and really explain
(21:11):
all the nuances, and even youryour first days at Texas state
and how you navigated that thosethe you know, the rodeo cowboy
people, I mean that's a, that'sa teachable moment there.
J.R. Gonzales (21:25):
Well, I have to tell you what's a teachable
moment and I don't tell it often, but since you challenged, I
might do a podcast with it.
One of my jobs, one of my veryfirst jobs at Texas State is you
know, I said my parentssupported me for the first two
semesters.
After that I was on my own.
But I got a job at AquarenaSprings when it was open and my
(21:47):
job was I was a swimmer, I swamwith Ralph the swimming pig.
Judy Oskam (21:52):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
J.R. Gonzales (21:55):
For about two and a half, a little over two
semesters I swam with that damndarn pig.
That is a story and that is thestories.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Judy Oskam (22:07):
But that pig.
Maybe I saw you during thattime because I came.
You may have.
I might have seen you back then.
J.R. Gonzales (22:14):
I would love to.
I mean, this was before youknow cameras on phones and
everything.
Yeah, I know I would love tofind a picture of myself.
You know swimming.
You know 25, 30 feet underwaterin that underwater submarine,
back dressed up as Glurpo.
You know one of the witchdoctors.
Yes, I mean we had the witchdoctors, we had the mermaids, we
had the swimming pig we had thewhole bit.
(22:36):
Right, right.
So that was a heck of anexperience and that was a really
turning point because, eventhough I felt that I was one of
the worst jobs in the world,people go oh, you're a swimmer,
how cool.
I go, yeah, we swam what?
In a full day?
Maybe five, six shows a day,sometimes maybe seven.
But the thing is, in betweenshows we weren't just idle, we
(22:57):
weren't just, you know,sunbathing, we had to work
around there.
I mean, jr, we've got to goclean out the alligator pits.
I go, are you serious?
Clean out alligator pits?
When they made the moviePiranhas there on the shores of
um, of ocarina springs, back inthe, was it back in the 70s.
(23:18):
Um, they needed a beach and thethey were.
The production company was toocheap to to um to go to a beach.
Well, yeah, to go to a beach orto rent the equipment.
They go, you swimmers.
There's some wheelbarrows andthere's some sand.
Make, make a beach, I go.
Are you freaking, kidding me?
So we created the entire beachfor one of the scenes.
That's a great story.
(23:39):
I love that.
It was like you've got to bekidding me.
And then the worst, not theworst the temperature there in
the water is constant all yearround because it's fed by an
underwater aquifer.
But the rules are you had tohave X amount of people in a
show to do a show, unless it wasthe last show of the day.
(24:00):
So it's December.
Aquarena Springs is about toclose.
It's the last show.
It's cold outside.
One lady, one elderly well, nowshe's probably one elderly at
the time.
When I was 18, 19 years yearsold.
She was elderly she's probably30 yeah, she, she, she buys a
ticket and so we have to do anentire show for I mean like five
people.
Five, six people have to get inthe water.
(24:21):
The announcer, the whole bityeah and so we had to do a show
for one lady and she asked mecan I bring in my dog?
I said, why not?
I mean it's, it's the end ofthe we're all.
We want to go home.
Halfway through the show shehad to go to the restroom and
she goes.
Can you stop the show and pauseit while I go to the restroom?
They go no, ma'am, we got tokeep going.
(24:43):
So she goes.
Well, I bought the ticket andI'm.
Well, I'm going to leave my doghere to watch the show while I
go to the restroom.
So she goes to the restroom andwe're performing for a Scottish
terrier, for the dog.
For a dog.
That was unbelievable.
But I go.
Okay, you know the show must goon.
(25:04):
So there's all kinds of crazythings.
I love that.
But performing for a dog in thewintertime in the last show, In
the water, In the water,freezing, Okay, so here we go.
But it definitely developed asense of endurance, if you will.
Judy Oskam (25:24):
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, and if you look at thatjob and what that taught you,
then all of these jobs teach ussomething and you know, as we
talk to students, you know theyall teach us something.
J.R. Gonzales (25:37):
Well, I'm of the ilk that not only does it teach
you something, but I tellpeople, especially young people,
if you have a job that you hate, if you have a job that you
don't like, just do it.
Do it to the best of yourability, because it's not
forever you know, unless you'remaking license plates in San
Quentin.
But the best of your abilitybecause it's not forever, you
know, unless you're makinglicense plates in San Quentin,
but it's kind of like it willturn.
But let me tell you this, andthis is for the listeners Even
(26:00):
though it sounded pretty cooland I got the job, but after a
while and keep in mind we wereseasonal work, so we didn't even
have to get paid minimum wage.
I was getting like $1.95 anhour back then to swim in the
water.
But the pig experience or theAquarium Spring experience kind
of changed a lot for me becauseright out of school I was kind
(26:24):
of recruited, if you will.
I ended up working for twosenators a US congressman and I
was a senatorial aide in thestate legislature all before the
age of 25.
But what got me on that track isI got a phone call.
Someone recommended me for ajob working at the state capitol
and I got a call from a ladynamed Gail Harris.
Gail says is this JR Gonzalez?
I said yes, ma'am.
(26:44):
She said I understand that youmay be interested in working at
the Capitol this session.
I go, yes, ma'am.
He said well, when can you comesee me?
I go, I can come see you.
Right now he goes, jr, it'sThanksgiving holiday.
Why don't you come see meMonday?
And Monday I go up and I do aninterview and it goes well, and
about a week later I got a calland said you're hired.
(27:05):
I was elated, I mean my firstjob out of college.
I'm working in the statecapitol and when I got there,
one of the jobs I had, one of myfirst duties was to get all
these other files of people whoapplied for the position and
file them away.
Well, me being who I am andkind of curious, I had to look
at some of these applications.
And I'm going my gosh.
How in the world did I get thisjob?
(27:30):
So about a month into it I feelcomfortable enough.
Where I go to the lady, msHarris.
I go Ms Harris, I have aquestion for you.
She goes I got to confess Ilooked at some of those
applications and there were somevery, very qualified people.
She says why me?
And she just kind of smiles andsays Jerry, you asked the wrong
question.
And I go what is the questionthat I should ask?
She goes why did you get theinterview?
There's a lot of qualifiedpeople there, but it was who I
(27:53):
interviewed that I chose fromthere.
She says the question youshould be asking is why did you
get the interview?
I go okay, why did I get theinterview?
She says I was looking throughthe applications.
I go any man who put on hisresume that he swam with a pig
for a living, I just had to meet.
So once you got in here, it wasyour experience, your
(28:13):
personality and everything elsethat got you the job.
And I'm figuring, but I justhad to.
Who in the world swims with apig?
I'd never come across that inmy life.
I probably never will be.
So I just had to meet you, andso it was that that started the
trajectory of everything elsethat I've done in life, and I
mean I'm proud of the fact thatwe're just a poor little Mexican
(28:35):
kid out of South Texas.
I mean I have actually met sixUS presidents six US presidents,
three out of Mexico, presidentsout of other countries.
I've stood on the Great Wall ofChina 13 times.
I've traveled parts of the worldand a lot of it can be related
back to just swimming with thatdamn pig and getting an
interview that opened up thedoors for me to be in Washington
(28:57):
DC for a period of time as well.
Judy Oskam (28:59):
I love that.
Well, and what did that tellyou about asking the right
question?
J.R. Gonzales (29:03):
Exactly.
Judy Oskam (29:04):
Asking the right question.
And then being humble enough tojust vulnerable enough to just
kind of lay it out there.
J.R. Gonzales (29:13):
And it also taught me no matter what the
circumstances are, you put theright spin on it, you can figure
out how to get ahead somehowsome way.
Judy Oskam (29:21):
Yes, oh my gosh, I love that.
See, that needs to be in yourbook as well.
That's a chapter in your book.
J.R. Gonzales (29:30):
Well, somebody asked me about a book and I said
and my standard response ismaybe one day, but right now too
many people are still alive.
Judy Oskam (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, too many people are still alive.
J.R. Gonzales (29:38):
Okay, yes, yes, in fact, the book, the working
title of the book was that I'vebeen playing with, and it's true
and funny, you should mentionit was called Swimming with Pigs
.
Yeah, swimming with Pigs.
What kind of title is that?
Judy Oskam (29:56):
That can go a lot of different places.
J.R. Gonzales (29:59):
It really could.
It really could.
We don't put lipstick on ourpigs, we just swim with them.
Judy Oskam (30:04):
We just swim with them.
That's a whole other thing.
J.R. Gonzales (30:06):
Oh my gosh, yeah , I them, and that's a whole
other thing.
But, um, yeah, I mean, texasstate was um instrumental in my,
in my development.
I learned a lot and what reallysurprised me, even today at my
age, and some of the experiencesthat I have, or some of the
situations that I face, I'lljust my mind will flash back to,
you know, 1979 or so, when I'msitting in a classroom going, oh
(30:27):
, I know that, and then it justkind of pops out of my mouth or
just kind of, and people arelooking at me like, wow, jared,
that was really, that was reallysmart.
And I'm going yeah, I areeducated.
Judy Oskam (30:40):
I learned that Well and I really enjoyed seeing you
interact with our studentsrecently and teaching them what
they need to know to besuccessful and sharing some of
your insight.
I think that's something.
What would you tell studentsabout how to kind of be
comfortable in their own skin,if you will, literally and
(31:03):
figuratively, but what would youtell someone who can learn
something from your background?
J.R. Gonzales (31:12):
Wow, probably the best thing people can learn
from my background is don't do alot of the things I did.
Judy Oskam (31:18):
How about the positive things?
Oh the positive stuff.
J.R. Gonzales (31:24):
Well, let's break that down a little bit.
Let's go back a little bit.
I think for anybody to besuccessful and to be confident,
they have to have confidence inthemselves.
They have to believe inthemselves that they can do it,
Going out there and taking onthe challenge.
If you don't feel good aboutwho you are and yourself and
what you can do, it's going tobe difficult.
(31:45):
Then there's a situation well,I've heard young people go.
Jer, I haven't done much inlife.
I haven't really done much.
I haven't accomplished anything.
So how can I learn from theseexperiences?
I go.
Well, let's talk about theexperiences you've had and as
you start talking about them andresearching them a little bit
(32:07):
more, it's kind of like come on.
I mean, you came from a largefamily, your family didn't have
a whole lot of money.
You had to work your waythrough things.
You overcame these obstacles,you got into school, you passed
all the tests, all the exams.
You're here.
It's not so much where you'vebeen, but where you're going.
Judy Oskam (32:28):
Yeah.
J.R. Gonzales (32:28):
And I also believe that to know where
you're going you have to knowwhere you've been.
No-transcript some of thechallenges they see today in the
(32:50):
business world or getting a jobor making it in society it
ain't anything compared to whatthey've been through already.
So it's kind of like if youhave that confidence that you
can do that, then from then onit's going to be smooth sailing.
Judy Oskam (33:03):
Yeah, and allowing yourself to recognize what
you've accomplished yourself.
J.R. Gonzales (33:08):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I have often, you know,dealing with US senators,
congressmen, foreign diplomats.
Everything at first is kind oflike, oh, this is kind of scary.
But then on the other result.
And the other time I'm goingwait a minute, I've sat down,
I've met so many people in mylife and very fortunate.
(33:29):
I mean, how many people wouldsay I have met six US presidents
in my lifetime?
And I'm going, if I can sit andhave a decent conversation with
some of these guys, this otherperson?
No big deal, we're all peopleyou know.
It's just how you presentyourself and how I don't want to
say how smart you are is howyou present yourself and how
(33:51):
you're.
A lot of it deals with socialintelligence.
Judy Oskam (33:55):
Yeah, capital, social capital.
J.R. Gonzales (33:56):
Social capital and emotional intelligence and
go.
Can you read the situation andknow which cards to play?
Because sometimes some peopleare just.
They may be highly educated butthey're just dumb as dirt when
it comes to some situations.
I'm going my gosh people.
So I've been very fortunate inthat, in that I can usually read
a room, read other people andthen not capitalize, but at
(34:21):
least to know which direction togo in to accomplish whatever
goal we're going to go becausepeople think differently and I
learned that a long time ago isyou appeal to the way people
think.
It may not be your way ofthinking, but you're not trying
to change your way of thinking.
You're just trying to convincethem to do something that maybe
you want them to do, whether itbe buy your product or go in a
(34:42):
direction or vote a certain way.
I often tell people everybodylistens to the same radio
station, wifm what's in it forme?
So once I figure out what theother person wants, it makes it
a lot easier to get to appeal totheir senses.
I love it.
Judy Oskam (34:59):
Well, I can't wait to listen to more of your
podcasts and some of yourstories there, and also read a
future book.
J.R. Gonzales (35:08):
Yeah, the book.
Thing.
Judy Oskam (35:10):
No pressure.
J.R. Gonzales (35:11):
Who knows who knows Transcripts from the
podcast.
Judy Oskam (35:15):
Put those in there, just an idea.
J.R. Gonzales (35:18):
There is an idea , but I think I like the idea of
doing a solo episode or two,because there are times I'll
have a guest and I have to pullmyself back because it's kind of
like no, now you got me going,I just want to get on my foot.
Judy Oskam (35:32):
You have stories to tell and you need to share those
stories.
They will be valuable for thelisteners.
Well, thank you, thank you.
Yes, I'm a fan, let me tell you.
J.R. Gonzales (35:42):
I love it.
I would like to think that I dohave some value to share, and
then a lot of it is.
People have asked sometimes,gerald, what do you attribute
your success to?
And I say, well, first of all,thank you very much for
considering me successful.
I don't, I still don't, I justsay, I look at it.
(36:02):
Is that?
Actually?
When I was in school, I read abook, confessions of an
Advertising man by David Ogilvy,and one of the things, one of
the passages and I'mparaphrasing in the book that
really stuck out in my mind andstill does.
Ogilvie said, I think, thesecret, the secret is you make
your successes public and youkeep your, your failures private
(36:26):
.
And so, as I've kept myfailures private which I have,
many, many, many failures andthen publicize your successes,
it just kind of makes it alittle bit easier that whole
public perception of who you are.
But understanding that everytime you're successful at
something, it's kind of like ithappened for a reason and you
(36:49):
don't get all big-headed aboutit and you just go okay, I made
it through this one.
What's next Exactly?
And let's tackle it by numbersand just don't think that it's
necessarily you.
It may be the position you hold.
It may be the title, it justmay be the right people, the
right circumstances, but I'vegone through things that it's
kind of like I cannot believe.
I talked my way through thisand I was just thinking about it
(37:13):
the other day.
I was when I was up inWashington DC, when I was the
president and CEO of the UnitedStates Hispanic Chamber of
Commerce.
I had some meetings in MexicoCity and I leave DC, and when I
left I forgot I didn't have mypassport with me.
And so they go, what are yougoing to do?
Are you going to cancel thetrip?
I said no, they're depending onme.
So when I got to San Antonio Iwent up to the ticket counter
(37:36):
and said here's my, you know,gonzales, mexico City.
Can I see your passport?
And I didn't have a passportwith me and I talked to the
agent behind the counter.
I smiled, I mean it's not thatI have a.
I mean I didn't flirt, I justsmiled.
I go, okay, look, we startedtalking and she was Hispanic.
(37:59):
So I said where are you from?
And she's from South Texas aswell.
So I played that card, I playedevery card I knew, and by the
end of the conversation she wentahead and let me board.
She broke the rules and let meboard a plane.
This was post-9-11 without apassport going into Mexico City,
and so then I had my passportFedExed to me in Mexico.
Judy Oskam (38:19):
Oh, I was going to say how did you get back?
J.R. Gonzales (38:21):
Yeah, I wasn't going to try to get that lucky
twice.
Judy Oskam (38:24):
Yeah, coming back.
J.R. Gonzales (38:26):
So they FedExed it to me and then I was able to
come back.
But it was a lot of folks gohow do you get away with that?
I go it's not getting away withit, it's just a matter of
having the confidence inyourself and for the most part,
I believe people are good andpeople want to help.
Judy Oskam (38:43):
People want to help you.
I do too, so don't be afraid toask.
Yeah, yeah, don't be afraid toask.
Well, thank you for serving onthe podcast today and I
appreciate your time and sharingyour stories, and we'll have to
do this again.
J.R. Gonzales (38:54):
Let's do.
The next time we do it, I'llhave a different story for you.
Judy Oskam (38:57):
That sounds great.
I look forward to it.
Thanks, JR.
J.R. Gonzales (38:59):
Have a great day .
And thank you for what you do.
This is, this is a great, greatpodcast, great format.
Really enjoy listening to itmyself.
Judy Oskam (39:06):
Great Perfect, all right Perfect.
I love the pig story Love it.
I'm serious about the solopodcast.
J.R. Gonzales (39:16):
Yeah, you should think about that.
The pig story is.
I actually have done one or twothe pig story and I'll let you
go after this.
I was asked to be thecommencement speaker at a high
school.
It was a private school and I'mgoing, what the heck am I going
to talk about?
I got there and it was aprivate school, very upper class
(39:39):
, I mean.
It was nice, it was elegant,and so I said what can these
kids relate to audience, thewhole thing?
And then, lo and behold, whatstarted coming out of my mouth
was the pig story and Iincorporated the pig story into
milestones of successes andmeasurements and everything else
, and the audience was justlooking at me with this dazed
(40:02):
look on their face and I'm going.
oh my gosh, I just bombed thisone.
Then it wasn't until afterwardswhen I heard the applause and
people coming up to me and saidI used to go to Ocarina.
Springs, I probably saw you,yes, and it helped bring up
those younger childhood emotionsand everything.
And I go, man, I got out ofthis one.
Judy Oskam (40:21):
Another one.
J.R. Gonzales (40:23):
And a person wrote on my LinkedIn and I'm
very proud of that post fromthat event.
They wrote about it.
It's probably one of the bestspeaking reviews I've ever had.
But you know, jr is obviously amasterful and experienced
orator and he skillfully didthis and that and engaged with
the audience.
I'm going dang.
I've got to have this guy writeall my stuff, but I got through
(40:45):
it.
But the pig story is somethingthat is definitely real, it
happened and yeah.
Judy Oskam (40:53):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, thank you for sharingyour time and thank you for
listening.
I'll put some information aboutJR and his podcast in the show
notes.
Remember if you've got a storyto share or know someone who
does.
Reach out to me at judyoskam.
com.
Thanks for listening.
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