November 2, 2025 • 21 mins
How do sports, culture, and communication shape who we are? In this episode, Judy Oskam talks with University of Alabama Sports Scholar Dr. Kenon Brown.
Dr. Brown is a professor of advertising and public relations, co-director of the Beyond Sports Initiative, and co-author of the book - The United States of Sport: Media Framing and the Influence of the Intersection of Sports and American Culture.
During our conversation we explore how sports reflect American society, how branding and communication shape identity, and how career pivots can open doors to purpose and passion. From the rise of women’s sports to the connection between hip-hop and the NBA, Dr. Brown offers a powerful look at creativity and change through the lens of sport.
In this episode you'll learn:
- The 'perfect storm' moment that connected passion and purpose, resulting in a career change
- How sports mirror American culture — from equality in pay to pop culture and hip-hop
- Why authenticity and consistency matter in personal branding, especially for NIL athletes
- The powerful link between sports, mental health, and communication
- What’s next in global sports: the 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympics
Quotes - Dr. Kenon Brown
“It was the perfect storm — the right people at the right time helped me make the pivot.”
“Sports are a microcosm of society. Every major cultural shift is reflected on the field or court.”
“Be authentic. Be consistent. That’s the foundation of a strong personal brand.”
“The intersection of communication, culture, and sports is where real change happens.”
Resources and Links
- The United States of Sport: Media Framing and the Influence of the Intersection of Sports and American Culture by Kenon Brown, Josh Dickhaus, and Mia Long Anderson
- Beyond Sports Initiative, University of Alabama
Dr. Brown kicked off a university lecture series in sports media at Texas State University, coordinated by Professor and Regents' Teacher of Advertising Dr. Mike Devlin.
This interview was recorded at Live Oak Studios, School of Journalism and Mass Communication, Texas State University.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Judy Oskam (00:01):
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam, a professor inthe School of Journalism and
Mass Communication at TexasState University.
On this episode, we're divinginto a world where sports,
culture, and communicationcollide.
I'm excited to share myconversation with Dr.
Kenon Brown from the Universityof Alabama.
(00:23):
Dr.
Brown is a professor inadvertising and public relations
and co-author of the book, TheUnited States of Sport: Media
Framing and Influence of theIntersection of Sports and
American Culture.
He wrote the book with JoshDickhaus and Mia Long Anderson.
Brown is co-director of theBeyond Sports Initiative, a
(00:46):
think tank that brings togetheracademics and professionals to
explore what's next in sportsand gaming.
Dr.
Brown was at Texas StateUniversity as part of the
university lecture series insports media.
What I really love aboutKenon's story is how he
completely changed directions inhis career from restaurant and
(01:08):
brand management to academia.
And he found a way to blend hislove of communication,
branding, and sports intosomething meaningful.
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Well, I noticed that you youdidn't start your career in
sports, but how did you findyour passion and get into that?
Kenon Brown (01:29):
So that's actually a really good question.
Um so the one thing I will sayis about my uh work experience
is that I did get a chance toreally kind of work closely with
a lot of um you know athleticdirectors, a lot of like minor
league teams in those roles.
Uh but in terms of actuallylike studying sports, I actually
(01:49):
went to um my doctoral programwanting to study corporate
communication and investorrelations just because of my
like work background.
Um just got bored of it.
Yeah really.
And so I was kind of at acrossroads where I really wanted
to figure out what I wanted todo next.
And I met with uh the lateJennings Bryant, who is a
(02:10):
legend, by the way.
Judy Oskam (02:11):
Absolutely.
Kenon Brown (02:12):
And he was our associate dean of uh graduate
study.
So I um I had the the privilegereally of uh kind of learning
from him from um, you know, uhtowards the end of his career.
And I met with him and and justtrying to figure out kind of
what my next move was going tobe.
And his it's one question to mewas, well, what are you
passionate about?
What do you like to do?
(02:33):
And I told him it was like I'ma sports fan.
And his exact words were youcan study that.
And I did not know at the timethat um, you know, that sports
was really a scholarly andacademic field.
And this was kind of a perfectstorm because around that time,
uh, Dr.
Andy Billings, who is a pioneerin sports communication
research, was also about to takea job uh at the University of
(02:56):
Alabama as well.
Um, so I think, again, I thinkit was just a perfect storm of
trying to find something thatreally fit my passion and
actually having somebody inplace that could actually kind
of show me that yes, this is alegitimate field of study.
And, you know, like through hisguidance along with uh Dr.
Bruce Berger, who is like oneof the foremost researchers in
(03:16):
PR leadership, I was really kindof able to blend that um, the
intersection of strategiccommunication and sports
communication together.
And that's really been thefocus of my career, like over
the last 13, 14 years.
Judy Oskam (03:30):
Well, and just making that change and and
making it to where you're gonnalive the life you want, right?
And it would have been easy foryou to stay in the restaurant
and retail branding area, right?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
You would have made more money,maybe.
Kenon Brown (03:45):
Yeah, I mean, I probably would have made more
money.
I actually think my um my planswere to actually try to get to
the corporate office uh at mylast job, which was uh I was uh
brand manager for Buffalo WildWings, and I wanted to move to
the corporate office inMinneapolis um for several
reasons that didn't work out.
So again, I kind of hit acrossroads, then that really
(04:07):
kind of propelled me intoacademia.
Uh and you're right.
I mean, I could have stayedindustry, I could have gone to a
different job, I probably couldhave made more money, uh, but
whatever.
But um I I mean I enjoyacademia.
I enjoy my research.
Uh academia has given me anopportunity to do consulting,
which is kind of where I get myexperience, especially with
(04:29):
sport entertainment uhorganizations.
And it's nice that I'm able tohave an academic job that still
allows me to really kind of beactive in the profession as
well.
Judy Oskam (04:39):
Well, and I think blending the industry with
academia is that's the nature ofour program as well.
And you guys are an accreditedprogram, we are too, and that's
we're accredited to be aprofessional program.
Kenon Brown (04:52):
Yeah, um I I mean I've always said that um the
research that we do incommunication and information
science is whether it isjournalism, whether it's Adam
PR, whether it's electronicmedia, or whether it's
information science, whatwhatever a com studies, whatever
it is, um, because we are aapplied field, I feel like the
(05:13):
research that we do needs toguide the industry and needs to
guide, you know, like thepractice of communications.
Um if you're not doing it, thenwhat's the point?
Really, in my opinion.
And that's kind of where theidea for Beyond Sports
Initiative really kind of came,um, kind of came to fruition
because we always wanted to kindof figure out what's a way that
(05:34):
we as sports communicationresearchers can really help lend
our insights and our expertiseto the profession to really kind
of bridge that gap.
Judy Oskam (05:42):
Well, and I'm married to a soccer coach, so I
am living sports 24-7, it seemslike.
And I think it's been fun forme to watch the women's sports
kind of grow.
Kenon Brown (05:53):
Yes.
Judy Oskam (05:54):
And that has been a whole new, and you know, women's
soccer is sort of what what wewatch, and that's been
fascinating to watch.
Kenon Brown (06:01):
Oh, yeah.
And I mean, women's soccer hasalways kind of been on the rise
in this country, I think, sincelike the late 90s, and I love
the fact that the WNBA is reallystarting to grow in popularity.
Um, like I've always been awomen's basketball fan.
So I got my undergraduate fromthe University of Tennessee.
So you you can't not be awomen's basketball fan at the
University of Tennessee duringthe past summer.
(06:22):
fan of Pat Summitt Oh my gosh,yes.
Um, so like I've always enjoyedwomen's basketball.
Um, like I'm I was actually I'ma I'm a band geek, so I was in
marching band um during my timeat Tennessee as well.
And I would just always loveplaying at the women's
basketball game.
So it it's just it's great tosee just the rise in popularity
and the attention that the WNBAis getting.
(06:43):
I think it's a long timecoming.
Judy Oskam (06:44):
It is, it is.
Well, and you've you've kind ofturned your passion into not
only an academic career, butyou're writing books and you've
got the book, The United Statesof Sport.
Kenon Brown (06:56):
Yes.
Judy Oskam (06:57):
Tell us about that.
Kenon Brown (06:58):
Okay, yeah.
So uh the United States ofSports, it was a book that I
actually wrote with um with twoco-authors, and they were
actually colleagues of mine andum classmates of mine in the um
doctoral program at theUniversity of Alabama.
Uh so Dr.
Josh Dickhaus and Dr.
Mia Long Anderson uh are myco-authors.
And we always wanted to write abook that was just about how
(07:21):
sport is such a microcosm ofsociety.
I mean, it is so representativeof society.
And if you look at just anyaspect of American culture,
whether it's health, whetherit's politics, whether it's um
pop culture, you know, like justwhat techno the rise of
technology, um sport is usuallylike if it's not in the center
(07:45):
of those debates and thoseconversations, um, sports is
usually the pioneer.
Uh and I'll talk a little bitabout that in my talk today.
But, you know, like I thinkevery single aspect of American
culture can be connected back tosport.
And we just wanted to write abook uh that has ended up
honestly being just an anthologyof different cases to really
kind of make our case that, youknow, no matter what area you
(08:07):
are looking at when it comes toAmerican culture, sports has
like a um a heavy hand in it.
Judy Oskam (08:12):
So give us an example of that.
Because I know here at theuniversity we always say that
sports is your front porch.
Kenon Brown (08:18):
Yes.
Judy Oskam (08:18):
That's why you've got to have a good team.
You've got to have good teamsbecause they bring people in and
they they build that connectionand that cultural bond.
Talk about uh give us anexample of something.
Kenon Brown (08:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
So so one of the things that wetalk about in the in the book,
um, you know, the um thecontinuing fight for equality
and pay for uh men and women.
Um and I mean, you know, it'syeah, it's it's increasing, but
I mean it's not sayingincreasing at a snail's pace in
terms of like the the wages thatwomen are paid compared to men.
(08:51):
And that fight really, youknow, played out on the soccer
field when it comes to the U.S.
women's soccer team and andtheir fight for equal pay
compared to the men's.
And let's be real, they weredoing significantly better than
the men's soccer teams, youknow, and were being paid
significantly less.
So, you know, like that was amicrocosm of the wage gap that
we have in the United States andkind of the fight for equality
(09:12):
we've had there.
Um, one of the things that I'mgonna talk about, well the the
the main focus of my uhpresentations today uh is going
to be about the parallel careersof Allen Iverson and Jay-Z.
And what I'm doing with that isI'm talking about the marriage
that happened uh in the late90s, early 2000s of the NBA and
(09:33):
hip hop and how Allen Iversonreally kind of forced the NBA
into the hip hop era, uh, youknow, whether they wanted to or
not.
Yeah.
And it really just became, youknow, synonymous with the NBA
and with basketball in general.
So I'm gonna talk a little bitabout that.
Um, but you know, you you lookat different things like one of
the examples I always like touse is um going back to the late
(09:54):
80s, early 90s and HIVepidemic.
And nobody really paidattention to it, that gave it
the attention that it deserveduntil Magic Johnson made his
announcement.
Yeah.
So again, you know, it's sportshas been central to so many
aspects of American culture, andin some cases are the reasons
(10:17):
why we were propelled into, youknow, certain, you know, certain
certain lenses and certainperspectives.
Um so I mean I think you justreally can point to any aspect
of American society and say thatsports has had like an
important part in that.
Judy Oskam (10:32):
Well why why is it that we feel so passionate about
our sports teams?
And some people are just Ithink of cowboy fans and they're
diehard fans.
I mean, what what is it in ourDNA that connects us with a
sports fan, a sports team?
Kenon Brown (10:50):
Yeah, well, I mean it it's easy to to make a sports
team uh like a part of youridentity.
I mean, like psychologically,it's so easy to make your
affiliation with a sports teampart of your identity.
And sometimes for better or forworse, you know, like you know,
I'm I'm an Atlanta Falcons fan.
And, you know, one of thethings that I that I always talk
(11:12):
about is just the pain andsuffering that is being an
Atlanta Falcons fan.
Judy Oskam (11:16):
Well the Cowboys could say that too, right?
Kenon Brown (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
And that has just become like abig part of my identity over
the few years.
But I just I do think that youknow there is just a deep
psychological connection thatcomes with the identif the
identification of being a fan ofa sports team.
And I think it's that aspect ofcommunity that comes with it.
Um, you know, no, I think thatsports is truly one of those
(11:42):
like few areas, especially thesedays, where it can if it wants
to transcend transcend, youknow, race, gender, ethnicity,
you know, like just didifferent, you know, the
differences of you know amongus.
I think that you know, sportsis one of those few things that
still kind of brings us togetherand unites us, right?
Judy Oskam (12:04):
Unites us, yeah.
Kenon Brown (12:04):
So I mean so I think it's that collective, it's
that community that comes withit.
Um of being a sports fan.
I mean, I think that's a hugedriver for why people like are
just highly identify with sportsteams.
Judy Oskam (12:16):
And there's symbolism there with we wear the
jerseys, we want to be part ofit.
I think there's something somagical about sports that is
just kind of it's just kind ofcrazy.
It's contagious.
It is contagious, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, I love it.
Well, and you're here at TexasState University talking as part
of our lecture series.
(12:38):
So we want to welcome you andand you're gonna talk uh tonight
a little bit.
Can you give us a littlepreview for the listeners that
won't be there?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Kenon Brown (12:47):
So um, so I'm gonna talk a little bit about um, a
little bit about the book andkind of a little bit about
again, like why how sport islike just a microcosm of
American society, how it isreflective of a lot of things in
uh in society.
And the the bulk of mypresentation uh is gonna be on
the chapter that I wrote thatlooks at the parallel careers of
(13:08):
Allen Iverson and uh and Jay-Z.
So Allen Iverson and Jay-Z umstarted their careers uh around
the same time, you know, andreally, you know, kind of blew
up around the same time.
And once I started kind ofdigging into my research, I
started to see that kind of therises and falls in their careers
uh were very similar and likereally on track.
(13:30):
So I'm gonna kind of talk abouttheir careers from uh from 1996
until 2003 and just kind ofwhich was kind of the apex for
both of them.
Jay-Z was out the blueprint andalso Allen Iverson's um MVP
season that he has.
So I'm gonna kind of talk aboutum their rise and fall until
they got to the apex and how itwas symbolic of the marriage of
(13:53):
hip-hop culture and the NBA, andkind of how the NBA really
became reflective of hip-hopculture and vice versa, along
the way as well.
And that is just kind of one ofmy examples of how sports has
really been influential uh whenit comes to pop culture in
general, including music.
Judy Oskam (14:10):
Yeah.
Well, and with your brandawareness and your consulting,
what would you consult them todo differently now looking back?
Of course, it's it's it's easyto be a Monday morning
quarterback.
Kenon Brown (14:21):
Oh, yeah.
Well, I mean, honestly, I Iprobably wouldn't tell them to
do much differently.
I mean, I think that the NBAhas really embraced hip hop
culture and uh honestlysynonymous with really like
black American culture.
Um, and that's something thatthe NBA has has always really
kind of been a part of.
But I really do think that nowAlan Iverson and you know the
NBA in the early 2000s, that'sreally when it's really started
(14:43):
to kind of take charge.
And I and I think that that waslike I think that was a smart
move to really just kind ofembrace it rather than you know
try to brush it aside.
So um, like it's just alwaysbeen intriguing to me that
marriage of hip hop and sports.
Um, so yeah, I'm just reallyexcited to talk about that.
Judy Oskam (14:59):
Well, that's great.
Well, and you mentioned musicand sports, and I can't let this
interview end without sayingthere's been a lot of connection
between music and sports withuh Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce
Kenon Brown (15:12):
Yeah.
Um yeah, yeah.
And I mean, she I will say thatit it looks like um she's done
a lot to kind of help withbringing like more, you know,
female fans, more women to bereally be interested in the NFL
um in the NFL.
Um, but again, that marriage ofsport and pop culture, that's
nothing new.
That's nothing new.
(15:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the thing that'sobviously in the spotlight right
now.
But you know, that thatconnection between sports and
music or sports in Hollywood.
I mean, I that that's beenaround for decades.
So yeah, yeah.
Judy Oskam (15:44):
Well, look ahead and tell us what we can expect from
sports and connected withAmerica.
What's what's next?
Because I think we're justwe're growing with some of the
women's sports.
Uh, we've got the Olympicscoming up, we've got World Cup
coming up.
And what's coming up?
Kenon Brown (16:02):
And that's what I would say is kind of the where
the attention I think is goingto be focused on now is really
you got the World Cup coming upin 2026, you got the uh Summer
Olympics coming in 2028.
Um, you know, we're co-hostingthe World Cup with Canada and
Mexico, and then Los Angeleswill be the host for the
Olympics in 2028.
And I just I'm interested tosee how the United States
(16:24):
embraces to globalized aspectsof sports when we are becoming
more and more isolated as acountry.
And and then not just reallywith the United States, but I
mean you're starting to see itjust like you know, around the
world, how we're becoming like alot more like isolated as
countries.
And I'm just interested to kindof see how we embrace what I
(16:48):
think are two of the premiershowcases of globalization and
global unity.
Um, and how we like really howdo we embrace that when we are
just becoming more and moreisolated as a country?
So I'm interested to kind ofsee how we how that dynamic
works.
Judy Oskam (17:02):
Yeah, and what's ahead for you research-wise?
You'll you're gonna dive intothat, I'm sure.
Kenon Brown (17:06):
Yeah.
So so research-wise, I've umI'm working right now on uh
putting together our um 2026Alabama Summit on uh sport and
gaming.
So we that's when we actuallybring like a lot of scholars and
practitioners together to justkind of debate some of the hot
topics in sports.
Um right now, a lot of myattention is kind of shifted to
(17:27):
mental health and sports,particularly the impact of
athlete disclosures and kind ofhow that impacts our awareness
of mental health and how itimpacts um our willingness to go
and basically seek help to seekresources.
Um, another area that I'mstarting to really kind of look
at that kind of ties into thatum is sports gambling and just
(17:48):
really kind of looking at, youknow, like the rise in sports
gambling addiction and just likewhat are some of the things
that we can do to really kind ofhelp like combat and alleviate
that.
Judy Oskam (17:57):
Which kind of ties back to mental health and
wellness too.
Kenon Brown (18:00):
So I'm trying to kind of shift more towards kind
of like a public health mentalhealth focus with a lot of my
work, but still planning onstudying the Olympics and World
Cup when it gets here.
Um my my primary research areahas always been reputation
management, so I still do a fewthings related to image repair
and things like that.
But I would say the theintersection of sport and public
health is really kind of likemy my newfound focus now.
(18:22):
That's the thing that I'mreally kind of focused on.
Judy Oskam (18:26):
Well, and you kind of circle back to, and I was
gonna ask you about NIL.
So, what what advice from yourbrand expertise do you have for
these NIL athletes?
What would you advise them ifyou could give them two tips?
What would you give them acouple of tips on how to manage
their brand and try and putthemselves in the best light
moving forward?
Kenon Brown (18:46):
Yeah, um, I mean, well, one thing that I always
stress, not even just for NIL,but just for building a personal
brand in general, is just beauthentic.
Um, you know, like for likespecifically for NIL, you know,
if if there are brands thatdon't really align with your
personality, your values, likeyour beliefs, um I I would
caution, you know, aligningyourself with those types of
(19:08):
brands because again, it just itit adds conflicting messages to
your brand image and to yourbrand personality.
Um, so just be you know, beingauthentic, but also like being
consistent with your brand.
I mean, like if you're going toportray yourself as this one
thing, then you need to makesure that everything you do is
kind of in lockstep with that.
(19:29):
Um, just to make sure that yourpersona is is not, you know,
inconsistent because I thinkthat's where you lose brand
value when you're not actuallybeing consistent with, you know,
like and being authentic toyourself.
Judy Oskam (19:41):
Mm-hmm.
Well, what what do you think ofthe NIL stuff?
I mean, what's how that's beenevolving?
Kenon Brown (19:47):
Yeah, I mean I I'm always I've always been an
advocate of you gotta pay, youneed to pay players.
I mean, like they need to getsomething for the work that
they're putting in.
Um, you know, there are a lotof people that say, okay, yeah,
scholarships are enough.
But I mean, you're talkingabout, especially like when you
talk about like two of the likerevenue generating sports, when
you talk about football andmen's basketball, um, you know,
(20:09):
those players deserve to bepaid.
I mean, I I do think that thereneeds to be some regulatory
standards when it comes to NIL.
Um, but the pure essence ofNIL, I mean, I'm all for it.
I mean, I think I I think youneed to pay the players.
Judy Oskam (20:24):
I think it's fascinating and how they have
the tools and at their at theirdisposal as far as social media.
So they're using what they'rewhat everyone has access to.
Kenon Brown (20:34):
So that's really been kind of the rise of the
co-creator economy that we haveright now.
I think that just becauseeverybody has the same tools or
almost the same tools at theirfingertips.
I mean, I think that thatshould be kind of embraced
rather than shunned.
Judy Oskam (20:49):
I agree.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree on that one.
That's great.
Well, thank you so much forcoming, Dr.
Brown.
Kenon Brown (20:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you, sir.
This is great.
Yeah.
And like I said, I look forwardto uh speaking to you know the
students and the facultytonight.
I mean, hopefully it's a topicthat they're interested in.
Um, and you know, as always,just thanks for having me.
Judy Oskam (21:05):
Thank you for coming.
You have to come back again.
Kenon Brown (21:07):
Absolutely.
Thanks.
Judy Oskam (21:09):
And thank you for listening.
I'll include a link to Dr.
Brown's book, The United Statesof Sport, in the show notes.
I really love how Kenon sharedinformation about recognizing
the perfect storm, the rightpeople at the right time to help
you make a pivot.
I love how he shared that abouthis career.
(21:30):
You too can find your ownperfect storm.
It's all about the people, inmy opinion.
Well, our interview wasrecorded at Live Oak Studios on
the campus of Texas StateUniversity.
Thank you for listening.
And remember, if you've got astory to share or know someone
who does, reach out to me atjudyoskam.com.
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam, a professor inthe School of Journalism and
Mass Communication at TexasState University.
On this episode, we're divinginto a world where sports,
culture, and communicationcollide.
I'm excited to share myconversation with Dr.
Kenon Brown from the Universityof Alabama.
(00:23):
Dr.
Brown is a professor inadvertising and public relations
and co-author of the book, TheUnited States of Sport: Media
Framing and Influence of theIntersection of Sports and
American Culture.
He wrote the book with JoshDickhaus and Mia Long Anderson.
Brown is co-director of theBeyond Sports Initiative, a
(00:46):
think tank that brings togetheracademics and professionals to
explore what's next in sportsand gaming.
Dr.
Brown was at Texas StateUniversity as part of the
university lecture series insports media.
What I really love aboutKenon's story is how he
completely changed directions inhis career from restaurant and
(01:08):
brand management to academia.
And he found a way to blend hislove of communication,
branding, and sports intosomething meaningful.
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Well, I noticed that you youdidn't start your career in
sports, but how did you findyour passion and get into that?
Kenon Brown (01:29):
So that's actually a really good question.
Um so the one thing I will sayis about my uh work experience
is that I did get a chance toreally kind of work closely with
a lot of um you know athleticdirectors, a lot of like minor
league teams in those roles.
Uh but in terms of actuallylike studying sports, I actually
(01:49):
went to um my doctoral programwanting to study corporate
communication and investorrelations just because of my
like work background.
Um just got bored of it.
Yeah really.
And so I was kind of at acrossroads where I really wanted
to figure out what I wanted todo next.
And I met with uh the lateJennings Bryant, who is a
(02:10):
legend, by the way.
Judy Oskam (02:11):
Absolutely.
Kenon Brown (02:12):
And he was our associate dean of uh graduate
study.
So I um I had the the privilegereally of uh kind of learning
from him from um, you know, uhtowards the end of his career.
And I met with him and and justtrying to figure out kind of
what my next move was going tobe.
And his it's one question to mewas, well, what are you
passionate about?
What do you like to do?
(02:33):
And I told him it was like I'ma sports fan.
And his exact words were youcan study that.
And I did not know at the timethat um, you know, that sports
was really a scholarly andacademic field.
And this was kind of a perfectstorm because around that time,
uh, Dr.
Andy Billings, who is a pioneerin sports communication
research, was also about to takea job uh at the University of
(02:56):
Alabama as well.
Um, so I think, again, I thinkit was just a perfect storm of
trying to find something thatreally fit my passion and
actually having somebody inplace that could actually kind
of show me that yes, this is alegitimate field of study.
And, you know, like through hisguidance along with uh Dr.
Bruce Berger, who is like oneof the foremost researchers in
(03:16):
PR leadership, I was really kindof able to blend that um, the
intersection of strategiccommunication and sports
communication together.
And that's really been thefocus of my career, like over
the last 13, 14 years.
Judy Oskam (03:30):
Well, and just making that change and and
making it to where you're gonnalive the life you want, right?
And it would have been easy foryou to stay in the restaurant
and retail branding area, right?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
You would have made more money,maybe.
Kenon Brown (03:45):
Yeah, I mean, I probably would have made more
money.
I actually think my um my planswere to actually try to get to
the corporate office uh at mylast job, which was uh I was uh
brand manager for Buffalo WildWings, and I wanted to move to
the corporate office inMinneapolis um for several
reasons that didn't work out.
So again, I kind of hit acrossroads, then that really
(04:07):
kind of propelled me intoacademia.
Uh and you're right.
I mean, I could have stayedindustry, I could have gone to a
different job, I probably couldhave made more money, uh, but
whatever.
But um I I mean I enjoyacademia.
I enjoy my research.
Uh academia has given me anopportunity to do consulting,
which is kind of where I get myexperience, especially with
(04:29):
sport entertainment uhorganizations.
And it's nice that I'm able tohave an academic job that still
allows me to really kind of beactive in the profession as
well.
Judy Oskam (04:39):
Well, and I think blending the industry with
academia is that's the nature ofour program as well.
And you guys are an accreditedprogram, we are too, and that's
we're accredited to be aprofessional program.
Kenon Brown (04:52):
Yeah, um I I mean I've always said that um the
research that we do incommunication and information
science is whether it isjournalism, whether it's Adam
PR, whether it's electronicmedia, or whether it's
information science, whatwhatever a com studies, whatever
it is, um, because we are aapplied field, I feel like the
(05:13):
research that we do needs toguide the industry and needs to
guide, you know, like thepractice of communications.
Um if you're not doing it, thenwhat's the point?
Really, in my opinion.
And that's kind of where theidea for Beyond Sports
Initiative really kind of came,um, kind of came to fruition
because we always wanted to kindof figure out what's a way that
(05:34):
we as sports communicationresearchers can really help lend
our insights and our expertiseto the profession to really kind
of bridge that gap.
Judy Oskam (05:42):
Well, and I'm married to a soccer coach, so I
am living sports 24-7, it seemslike.
And I think it's been fun forme to watch the women's sports
kind of grow.
Kenon Brown (05:53):
Yes.
Judy Oskam (05:54):
And that has been a whole new, and you know, women's
soccer is sort of what what wewatch, and that's been
fascinating to watch.
Kenon Brown (06:01):
Oh, yeah.
And I mean, women's soccer hasalways kind of been on the rise
in this country, I think, sincelike the late 90s, and I love
the fact that the WNBA is reallystarting to grow in popularity.
Um, like I've always been awomen's basketball fan.
So I got my undergraduate fromthe University of Tennessee.
So you you can't not be awomen's basketball fan at the
University of Tennessee duringthe past summer.
(06:22):
fan of Pat Summitt Oh my gosh,yes.
Um, so like I've always enjoyedwomen's basketball.
Um, like I'm I was actually I'ma I'm a band geek, so I was in
marching band um during my timeat Tennessee as well.
And I would just always loveplaying at the women's
basketball game.
So it it's just it's great tosee just the rise in popularity
and the attention that the WNBAis getting.
(06:43):
I think it's a long timecoming.
Judy Oskam (06:44):
It is, it is.
Well, and you've you've kind ofturned your passion into not
only an academic career, butyou're writing books and you've
got the book, The United Statesof Sport.
Kenon Brown (06:56):
Yes.
Judy Oskam (06:57):
Tell us about that.
Kenon Brown (06:58):
Okay, yeah.
So uh the United States ofSports, it was a book that I
actually wrote with um with twoco-authors, and they were
actually colleagues of mine andum classmates of mine in the um
doctoral program at theUniversity of Alabama.
Uh so Dr.
Josh Dickhaus and Dr.
Mia Long Anderson uh are myco-authors.
And we always wanted to write abook that was just about how
(07:21):
sport is such a microcosm ofsociety.
I mean, it is so representativeof society.
And if you look at just anyaspect of American culture,
whether it's health, whetherit's politics, whether it's um
pop culture, you know, like justwhat techno the rise of
technology, um sport is usuallylike if it's not in the center
(07:45):
of those debates and thoseconversations, um, sports is
usually the pioneer.
Uh and I'll talk a little bitabout that in my talk today.
But, you know, like I thinkevery single aspect of American
culture can be connected back tosport.
And we just wanted to write abook uh that has ended up
honestly being just an anthologyof different cases to really
kind of make our case that, youknow, no matter what area you
(08:07):
are looking at when it comes toAmerican culture, sports has
like a um a heavy hand in it.
Judy Oskam (08:12):
So give us an example of that.
Because I know here at theuniversity we always say that
sports is your front porch.
Kenon Brown (08:18):
Yes.
Judy Oskam (08:18):
That's why you've got to have a good team.
You've got to have good teamsbecause they bring people in and
they they build that connectionand that cultural bond.
Talk about uh give us anexample of something.
Kenon Brown (08:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
So so one of the things that wetalk about in the in the book,
um, you know, the um thecontinuing fight for equality
and pay for uh men and women.
Um and I mean, you know, it'syeah, it's it's increasing, but
I mean it's not sayingincreasing at a snail's pace in
terms of like the the wages thatwomen are paid compared to men.
(08:51):
And that fight really, youknow, played out on the soccer
field when it comes to the U.S.
women's soccer team and andtheir fight for equal pay
compared to the men's.
And let's be real, they weredoing significantly better than
the men's soccer teams, youknow, and were being paid
significantly less.
So, you know, like that was amicrocosm of the wage gap that
we have in the United States andkind of the fight for equality
(09:12):
we've had there.
Um, one of the things that I'mgonna talk about, well the the
the main focus of my uhpresentations today uh is going
to be about the parallel careersof Allen Iverson and Jay-Z.
And what I'm doing with that isI'm talking about the marriage
that happened uh in the late90s, early 2000s of the NBA and
(09:33):
hip hop and how Allen Iversonreally kind of forced the NBA
into the hip hop era, uh, youknow, whether they wanted to or
not.
Yeah.
And it really just became, youknow, synonymous with the NBA
and with basketball in general.
So I'm gonna talk a little bitabout that.
Um, but you know, you you lookat different things like one of
the examples I always like touse is um going back to the late
(09:54):
80s, early 90s and HIVepidemic.
And nobody really paidattention to it, that gave it
the attention that it deserveduntil Magic Johnson made his
announcement.
Yeah.
So again, you know, it's sportshas been central to so many
aspects of American culture, andin some cases are the reasons
(10:17):
why we were propelled into, youknow, certain, you know, certain
certain lenses and certainperspectives.
Um so I mean I think you justreally can point to any aspect
of American society and say thatsports has had like an
important part in that.
Judy Oskam (10:32):
Well why why is it that we feel so passionate about
our sports teams?
And some people are just Ithink of cowboy fans and they're
diehard fans.
I mean, what what is it in ourDNA that connects us with a
sports fan, a sports team?
Kenon Brown (10:50):
Yeah, well, I mean it it's easy to to make a sports
team uh like a part of youridentity.
I mean, like psychologically,it's so easy to make your
affiliation with a sports teampart of your identity.
And sometimes for better or forworse, you know, like you know,
I'm I'm an Atlanta Falcons fan.
And, you know, one of thethings that I that I always talk
(11:12):
about is just the pain andsuffering that is being an
Atlanta Falcons fan.
Judy Oskam (11:16):
Well the Cowboys could say that too, right?
Kenon Brown (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
And that has just become like abig part of my identity over
the few years.
But I just I do think that youknow there is just a deep
psychological connection thatcomes with the identif the
identification of being a fan ofa sports team.
And I think it's that aspect ofcommunity that comes with it.
Um, you know, no, I think thatsports is truly one of those
(11:42):
like few areas, especially thesedays, where it can if it wants
to transcend transcend, youknow, race, gender, ethnicity,
you know, like just didifferent, you know, the
differences of you know amongus.
I think that you know, sportsis one of those few things that
still kind of brings us togetherand unites us, right?
Judy Oskam (12:04):
Unites us, yeah.
Kenon Brown (12:04):
So I mean so I think it's that collective, it's
that community that comes withit.
Um of being a sports fan.
I mean, I think that's a hugedriver for why people like are
just highly identify with sportsteams.
Judy Oskam (12:16):
And there's symbolism there with we wear the
jerseys, we want to be part ofit.
I think there's something somagical about sports that is
just kind of it's just kind ofcrazy.
It's contagious.
It is contagious, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, I love it.
Well, and you're here at TexasState University talking as part
of our lecture series.
(12:38):
So we want to welcome you andand you're gonna talk uh tonight
a little bit.
Can you give us a littlepreview for the listeners that
won't be there?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Kenon Brown (12:47):
So um, so I'm gonna talk a little bit about um, a
little bit about the book andkind of a little bit about
again, like why how sport islike just a microcosm of
American society, how it isreflective of a lot of things in
uh in society.
And the the bulk of mypresentation uh is gonna be on
the chapter that I wrote thatlooks at the parallel careers of
(13:08):
Allen Iverson and uh and Jay-Z.
So Allen Iverson and Jay-Z umstarted their careers uh around
the same time, you know, andreally, you know, kind of blew
up around the same time.
And once I started kind ofdigging into my research, I
started to see that kind of therises and falls in their careers
uh were very similar and likereally on track.
(13:30):
So I'm gonna kind of talk abouttheir careers from uh from 1996
until 2003 and just kind ofwhich was kind of the apex for
both of them.
Jay-Z was out the blueprint andalso Allen Iverson's um MVP
season that he has.
So I'm gonna kind of talk aboutum their rise and fall until
they got to the apex and how itwas symbolic of the marriage of
(13:53):
hip-hop culture and the NBA, andkind of how the NBA really
became reflective of hip-hopculture and vice versa, along
the way as well.
And that is just kind of one ofmy examples of how sports has
really been influential uh whenit comes to pop culture in
general, including music.
Judy Oskam (14:10):
Yeah.
Well, and with your brandawareness and your consulting,
what would you consult them todo differently now looking back?
Of course, it's it's it's easyto be a Monday morning
quarterback.
Kenon Brown (14:21):
Oh, yeah.
Well, I mean, honestly, I Iprobably wouldn't tell them to
do much differently.
I mean, I think that the NBAhas really embraced hip hop
culture and uh honestlysynonymous with really like
black American culture.
Um, and that's something thatthe NBA has has always really
kind of been a part of.
But I really do think that nowAlan Iverson and you know the
NBA in the early 2000s, that'sreally when it's really started
(14:43):
to kind of take charge.
And I and I think that that waslike I think that was a smart
move to really just kind ofembrace it rather than you know
try to brush it aside.
So um, like it's just alwaysbeen intriguing to me that
marriage of hip hop and sports.
Um, so yeah, I'm just reallyexcited to talk about that.
Judy Oskam (14:59):
Well, that's great.
Well, and you mentioned musicand sports, and I can't let this
interview end without sayingthere's been a lot of connection
between music and sports withuh Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce
Kenon Brown (15:12):
Yeah.
Um yeah, yeah.
And I mean, she I will say thatit it looks like um she's done
a lot to kind of help withbringing like more, you know,
female fans, more women to bereally be interested in the NFL
um in the NFL.
Um, but again, that marriage ofsport and pop culture, that's
nothing new.
That's nothing new.
(15:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the thing that'sobviously in the spotlight right
now.
But you know, that thatconnection between sports and
music or sports in Hollywood.
I mean, I that that's beenaround for decades.
So yeah, yeah.
Judy Oskam (15:44):
Well, look ahead and tell us what we can expect from
sports and connected withAmerica.
What's what's next?
Because I think we're justwe're growing with some of the
women's sports.
Uh, we've got the Olympicscoming up, we've got World Cup
coming up.
And what's coming up?
Kenon Brown (16:02):
And that's what I would say is kind of the where
the attention I think is goingto be focused on now is really
you got the World Cup coming upin 2026, you got the uh Summer
Olympics coming in 2028.
Um, you know, we're co-hostingthe World Cup with Canada and
Mexico, and then Los Angeleswill be the host for the
Olympics in 2028.
And I just I'm interested tosee how the United States
(16:24):
embraces to globalized aspectsof sports when we are becoming
more and more isolated as acountry.
And and then not just reallywith the United States, but I
mean you're starting to see itjust like you know, around the
world, how we're becoming like alot more like isolated as
countries.
And I'm just interested to kindof see how we embrace what I
(16:48):
think are two of the premiershowcases of globalization and
global unity.
Um, and how we like really howdo we embrace that when we are
just becoming more and moreisolated as a country?
So I'm interested to kind ofsee how we how that dynamic
works.
Judy Oskam (17:02):
Yeah, and what's ahead for you research-wise?
You'll you're gonna dive intothat, I'm sure.
Kenon Brown (17:06):
Yeah.
So so research-wise, I've umI'm working right now on uh
putting together our um 2026Alabama Summit on uh sport and
gaming.
So we that's when we actuallybring like a lot of scholars and
practitioners together to justkind of debate some of the hot
topics in sports.
Um right now, a lot of myattention is kind of shifted to
(17:27):
mental health and sports,particularly the impact of
athlete disclosures and kind ofhow that impacts our awareness
of mental health and how itimpacts um our willingness to go
and basically seek help to seekresources.
Um, another area that I'mstarting to really kind of look
at that kind of ties into thatum is sports gambling and just
(17:48):
really kind of looking at, youknow, like the rise in sports
gambling addiction and just likewhat are some of the things
that we can do to really kind ofhelp like combat and alleviate
that.
Judy Oskam (17:57):
Which kind of ties back to mental health and
wellness too.
Kenon Brown (18:00):
So I'm trying to kind of shift more towards kind
of like a public health mentalhealth focus with a lot of my
work, but still planning onstudying the Olympics and World
Cup when it gets here.
Um my my primary research areahas always been reputation
management, so I still do a fewthings related to image repair
and things like that.
But I would say the theintersection of sport and public
health is really kind of likemy my newfound focus now.
(18:22):
That's the thing that I'mreally kind of focused on.
Judy Oskam (18:26):
Well, and you kind of circle back to, and I was
gonna ask you about NIL.
So, what what advice from yourbrand expertise do you have for
these NIL athletes?
What would you advise them ifyou could give them two tips?
What would you give them acouple of tips on how to manage
their brand and try and putthemselves in the best light
moving forward?
Kenon Brown (18:46):
Yeah, um, I mean, well, one thing that I always
stress, not even just for NIL,but just for building a personal
brand in general, is just beauthentic.
Um, you know, like for likespecifically for NIL, you know,
if if there are brands thatdon't really align with your
personality, your values, likeyour beliefs, um I I would
caution, you know, aligningyourself with those types of
(19:08):
brands because again, it just itit adds conflicting messages to
your brand image and to yourbrand personality.
Um, so just be you know, beingauthentic, but also like being
consistent with your brand.
I mean, like if you're going toportray yourself as this one
thing, then you need to makesure that everything you do is
kind of in lockstep with that.
(19:29):
Um, just to make sure that yourpersona is is not, you know,
inconsistent because I thinkthat's where you lose brand
value when you're not actuallybeing consistent with, you know,
like and being authentic toyourself.
Judy Oskam (19:41):
Mm-hmm.
Well, what what do you think ofthe NIL stuff?
I mean, what's how that's beenevolving?
Kenon Brown (19:47):
Yeah, I mean I I'm always I've always been an
advocate of you gotta pay, youneed to pay players.
I mean, like they need to getsomething for the work that
they're putting in.
Um, you know, there are a lotof people that say, okay, yeah,
scholarships are enough.
But I mean, you're talkingabout, especially like when you
talk about like two of the likerevenue generating sports, when
you talk about football andmen's basketball, um, you know,
(20:09):
those players deserve to bepaid.
I mean, I I do think that thereneeds to be some regulatory
standards when it comes to NIL.
Um, but the pure essence ofNIL, I mean, I'm all for it.
I mean, I think I I think youneed to pay the players.
Judy Oskam (20:24):
I think it's fascinating and how they have
the tools and at their at theirdisposal as far as social media.
So they're using what they'rewhat everyone has access to.
Kenon Brown (20:34):
So that's really been kind of the rise of the
co-creator economy that we haveright now.
I think that just becauseeverybody has the same tools or
almost the same tools at theirfingertips.
I mean, I think that thatshould be kind of embraced
rather than shunned.
Judy Oskam (20:49):
I agree.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree on that one.
That's great.
Well, thank you so much forcoming, Dr.
Brown.
Kenon Brown (20:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you, sir.
This is great.
Yeah.
And like I said, I look forwardto uh speaking to you know the
students and the facultytonight.
I mean, hopefully it's a topicthat they're interested in.
Um, and you know, as always,just thanks for having me.
Judy Oskam (21:05):
Thank you for coming.
You have to come back again.
Kenon Brown (21:07):
Absolutely.
Thanks.
Judy Oskam (21:09):
And thank you for listening.
I'll include a link to Dr.
Brown's book, The United Statesof Sport, in the show notes.
I really love how Kenon sharedinformation about recognizing
the perfect storm, the rightpeople at the right time to help
you make a pivot.
I love how he shared that abouthis career.
(21:30):
You too can find your ownperfect storm.
It's all about the people, inmy opinion.
Well, our interview wasrecorded at Live Oak Studios on
the campus of Texas StateUniversity.
Thank you for listening.
And remember, if you've got astory to share or know someone
who does, reach out to me atjudyoskam.com.
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