September 28, 2023 • 42 mins
Are you tired of the 'if you build it, they will come' myth? It's time to shake things up in your business's marketing game! Join us in this electrifying episode where Kristelle Siarza Moon and Jace Downey roll up their sleeves and dive headfirst into the dynamic world of marketing. No more sitting on the sidelines wondering if your business will attract attention. It's time to take charge and master the art of self-promotion.
In this riveting conversation, we strip away the fluff and get real about the challenges every business owner faces. Camera shy? Uncertain about how to showcase your talents to the world? Fear not! We're here to equip you with insights and strategies that will smash through your marketing obstacles.
Prepare for a paradigm shift as we turn the spotlight on the pivotal role of authenticity in marketing. We debunk the idea that marketing is a manipulative game, advocating instead for a transparent and honest approach. Discover how authentic marketing forms a powerful connection between you and potential customers. Learn why sharing your craft with the world is not just beneficial but essential. We'll even guide you on staying true to yourself, refusing to bend to the pressure of others' expectations.
From dissecting key concepts to sharing tips on maintaining authenticity in your brand, this episode is a treasure trove of practical guidance and hard-earned experience. Don't miss out – tune in and empower yourself to elevate your marketing game to unprecedented heights!
And grab your guide for choosing the right marketing agency for your business here: www.siarza.com/marketing/choosing-the-right-marketing-agency/
A Siarza Production
Hosted by Kristelle Siarza Moon & Jace Downey
Executive Producer: Kristelle Siarza Moon
Producer: Jace Downey
Video/Editing: Justin Otsuka
Watch episodes at siarza.com/siarza-podcast
Follow us on FB, IG, TT, YT and TW @siarzatheagency
Follow Kristelle @kristellesiarza
www.misskristelle.com
Follow Jace @jacedowneyofficial
www.jacedowney.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristelle (00:00):
Yes, all agency owners struggle with marketing
themselves as individuals, asthe thought leader themselves,
as well as the agency as a whole.
They think that they can leanon that, or they sometimes
forget the agency needs to beits own client.
Welcome back to Story Successand Stuff.
Crystal here, jace here and weare talking about a topic that
(00:24):
makes so much sense.
We thought fully did not putthis as topic number one.
Very true, because there ismore to Story Success and Stuff.
Indeed, the topic is marketing,marketing success, the
importance of marketing insuccess.
My favorite phrase that you putin our guide for today is if
(00:44):
you build it, they won't come,they won't come.
Jace (00:48):
Yes, I look forward to explain more and if you're
listening and you're like I'mnot a business owner, I'm not an
entrepreneur, stick aroundanyway.
Marketing is for everyone andwe actually all do it all the
time and even if you don't domarketing, you are being
marketed to all the time, justconstantly.
Marketing is so ingrained inour life.
(01:08):
Even the way we think nowadayscomes down to how things have
been marketed our one-liners,the way we do storytelling
nowadays.
Marketing is our culture andpeople have a lot of fear on
that.
I did.
I had a really big negativeview of marketing for a long
time and I've really changed myrelationship.
(01:30):
So hang with us.
Marketing is for everyone.
This episode is absolutely foreverybody.
Kristelle (01:35):
So this episode for me, in terms of points,
takeaways, etc.
This podcast is a major shoutout to all of the counselors in
the Counselors Academy of thePublic Relations Society of
America.
The Counselors Academy is aspecial section where we are all
(01:56):
agency owners and why I thinkthis is a very good topic for
them.
Not because they're going totake this content back to their
teams, this is, to that ownerthat doesn't realize how
important it is to marketthemselves.
And yes, I'm looking at you,all of the C-levels chief
(02:17):
creative officers that arelistening to this one.
Of course, I am going to shoutout that the Counselors Academy
conference is happening in Aprilin Palm Springs, that I hope
that you all can make it.
For more information, go toPRSAorg and find the Counselors
Academy section.
Boom Marketing, boom Marketing.
Jace (02:37):
Boom Marketing Right there .
Kristelle (02:39):
Marketing.
So the reason why I really lovethis episode for them is
because agency owners, publicrelations owners, marketing
agency owners, advertisingagency owners hate to market
themselves.
They love to do marketing forother businesses, but they fail
(02:59):
at marketing themselves.
Jace (03:01):
That is true across the board for everyone I've ever
encountered.
Yeah, and it makes sense.
We have a pretty negative viewof what marketing is.
It's something.
When I did more entrepreneurialconsulting in Austin, people
would have great ideas and theywould be really, really, really
excited about their idea andthey'd be like, yeah, that is,
(03:21):
that's a really cool idea.
What's your marketing plan?
And if your answer was about tobe you, let me break it to you
nobody cares.
And now and I don't mean that ina harsh way, but one no one's
ever going to be as excitedabout your ideas you are.
It's not their idea.
They might go, that's neat,whatever, Most of us aren't as
(03:44):
big of a draw as we think we are.
Yeah, we just aren't, becausemost of the world doesn't know
us.
Right.
And even if you have theabsolute best idea and this is
what this is why this isimportant to me, because so many
people do set out on their ownto do their side hustle, to
start a business, whatever andwithout a marketing plan, you
are going to fail.
I'm sorry you are.
If you have the best idea andnobody knows about it, you're
(04:07):
going to fail.
Kristelle (04:08):
Yeah, and from the perspective of an agency owner
along those same lines, we feelthat sometimes we can put our
team out there or we can put thecase studies of the agency out
there.
Well, if you're an agency thatonly has about two or three case
(04:28):
studies in a particularindustry or scope of service and
you want to branch out into newindustries or new services,
well, that marketing approachwon't work anymore.
And or being methodical aboutyou know what, what are we going
to put out there aboutourselves?
I think one of the greatestcompliments that we've received
(04:50):
you and I have received aboutthis podcast so far is another
agency going up to us and sayingwe got to up our game because
they're crushing it right now interms of marketing the agency.
But we're not saying go buy CRSservices at CRScom.
What we're saying is this iswhat it's like to be behind the
scenes with us and just get toknow us.
(05:10):
Right, that's definitely amarketing strategy, absolutely,
but you know so.
So what we?
So going back to the the, whatare the challenges that we see
from agencies that run into the?
How do I market myself?
The first step is just openingthe door and letting, letting
your heart be open to marketingthe C level, the headshots, the
(05:32):
speaker bios, the resumes, thevulnerability of meeting new
people Like you.
Just got to go and do it.
Jace (05:39):
I'm going to say that's step two.
Yeah, step one.
This strategy Nine, nine,that's not step nine, that was
German, for no.
We have to be comfortableenough with ourselves to be
vulnerable.
Yeah, to put to put yourself oncamera, even if that's just a
(06:03):
headshot and I'm sure Justincould attest to this, it's very
young, it's.
You're just out there,basically naked right From from
a, being looked at.
Yeah, you're exposed andallowing others that you cannot
control look into you.
Yeah, that's a.
That's actually a really scarything.
When I used to do coaching forpeople on camera, they'd be like
(06:25):
, why is this so hard?
And I'm like cause you'reexposing who you are out into
the world with and then you justlet it go.
Yeah, that's a really scarything.
And so if I'm not confidentenough to at least know like I'm
, I'm safe in who I am and it'sokay for people to look at me,
then those steps are going to bereally hard.
So I think there's some innerwork to be done as step one
(06:47):
before.
All of that is in the mix oralong with it.
Cause it's an ongoing path,right Like.
Authenticity is not a switch,it doesn't go on and off, it's a
spectrum.
Kristelle (06:54):
Yeah, no.
So when I was a part ofcounselors academy, I met a lot
of other or still part ofcounselors academy.
One of the cool things that Isaw was, you know, as an
individual, I would see peoplethat look look, not look like me
like there was definitely adiversity issue that's being
solved right now but they had alot of the same skill sets as me
(07:16):
.
They had a team of less than 15.
They had an income of twomillion and below.
They were once public relations, digital advertising people
that got into the game andwanted to be their own boss Same
thing as I am.
But the one thing that we allshared was that awkwardness of
saying I don't know anybody here.
(07:36):
I know we all have a commonbond.
I know these are my people, buthow do I get myself out there
and market my own agency?
Jace (07:46):
A video is going through my, because I'm actually I have
social anxiety and I can bepretty socially awkward, and I
usually have some weird jokegoing through my mind that I'm
just trying to hold Like.
They just asked me do you wantanything from sushi, freak?
And I just stared silentlybecause I was shutting down
multiple inappropriate jokesthat were going through my head
To which I just went.
(08:06):
Nope, I don't, but I'm here.
I sent a video to a friend I'mlike this is me and it was a
woman practicing things to sayat a social event, and one of
them was I've got a pocket fullof spiders and I was like yes,
that is some weird song I wouldbreak out into in social footing
.
Kristelle (08:24):
Well, just, hysterical Cause in another
previous podcast that we did.
You were like.
So what do you do for fun, likeyou had asked that as your
social anxiety question right, Ihave a skill set around my
awkwardness.
Jace (08:36):
Now I know how to go and be in the world as me and even
as awkward yeah.
Kristelle (08:42):
Well, I remember my first counselors Academy, right,
and it was in Scottsdale,arizona and you know.
Staying on the topic ofmarketing and marketing
yourselves Like, I rememberspecifically going up to
somebody and be like I'm sureyou're probably as uncomfortable
as I am when it comes togetting myself out there, but
I'm crystal, I don't knowanybody here and I have no idea
what I'm doing, and they werelike you're in the right place?
Jace (09:04):
Yeah, and speaking we call that acknowledge the obvious.
Yeah, and it's a killer?
Yeah, absolutely.
Kristelle (09:10):
Yeah.
So I do want to say, though,when what I also found out at
that same conference inScottsdale, one of my first
counselors Academy, is that, yes, all agency owners struggle
with marketing themselves asindividuals, as the thought
leader themselves, as well asthe agency as a whole.
They think that they can leanon that, or they sometimes
forget the agency needs to beits own client.
Yeah, and I find that verycommon with other marketing
(09:33):
agencies, where they they andI've even had conversations with
other counselors where they sayI'm getting out of the game.
And I said, well, why, why, why?
Like I don't want to, I don'twant to discourage you from from
putting in the or throwing inthe towel, but like I hope
everything's okay.
Yeah, and they said, well, Idon't like to market myself and
I don't want to do the businessdevelopment.
And I said, well, there's thensee you later.
Jace (09:56):
Yeah, 100%.
I'd say that for any industry.
If you're not going to bewilling and go back to our
episode, check yourself beforeyou wreck yourself.
Where we're talking about egobut a lot of us get caught in
this notion.
If I am talking about myself orif I'm saying like, hey, I do
this, well then I'm beingegotistical or self center.
(10:17):
We have a real negative viewaround that, and even when you
said market yourself, oh, Icould feel cringing, yeah,
happening, and I watched, and Iused to do it too where I just
it was like oh, no, no, no, no.
But when you're the product, andespecially if you're an
entrepreneur sorry folks, yeah,you are the product, yeah,
you're the product, you're theservice.
(10:38):
You have just put yourself in asales position.
You are selling yourself, andthen you also do something you
love.
Yeah, but you are now inmarketing.
Yeah, welcome to it.
That's your main job now, notsomething that we talk about
nearly enough.
But this idea of marketingyourself, the language, I think,
has gotten really stickybecause you, as you know, you
know better than anyone.
In the past, the marketingrealm and the advertising realm
(11:00):
was pretty gross.
It was about learning humanpsychology to manipulate it for
sales for money.
That that was the original like, or that's what it became.
It became about manipulatingfor money.
Kristelle (11:15):
Yeah, and that's where I think people, that's
where we disagree.
Like I love marketing, but Ilove responsible marketing right
, and I love the like, thedefinite, the textbook
definition of marketing isproduct place, price and
promotion right, and here we seethat there are things that have
been taken to the extremes ofsome sort, where I understand
(11:39):
that people take advantage of it.
But good marketers and good,responsible marketing I think
call me an optimist if you will,and I think that's very valid.
I didn't mean to interrupt, butI say that when it comes to the
right type of subject matter,experts when it comes to
marketing themselves are theones that obviously are
authentic, right, who they arebehind closed doors or who they
(12:00):
are in a public setting.
I think really good marketersare the ones that are willing to
have conversations that aretransparent and transparent
enough and honestly like, ifyou're a good human being,
you're going to be a reallygreat marketer for yourself.
I say this because there was ateam member of ours a long time
ago.
Justin remembers him I thinkyou might have inter-counter
with him.
His name was River Marquez.
(12:21):
River was.
It was really great to the team.
And I remember having this verycandid conversation with River
while he was in a role ofbusiness development and I said,
okay, let's, this is versionnumber two of our business
development strategy for CRSA.
And I said I hate being thecenter of attention and he goes
you're going to have to.
(12:42):
And I said I don't like beingegotistical and I want to stay
humble and he goes I understandthat, but the company needs you.
And he was like 23 when he saidthat and fresh out of college
under got his marketingcommunications degree and I was
like, thank you, I really neededthat reminder and I think every
agency owner, every, everysmall business owner, needs to
(13:02):
remember that even this, eventhis podcast, is a major
vulnerable element ofunderstanding Like we have to
market CRSA in a way wherepeople know who we are and
they're willing to work with usbecause they see the stories and
success, hopefully down theroad right.
Jace (13:18):
Then they can create their own.
And, yes, we do ethical market.
There's a reason I work forthis company.
Kristelle (13:23):
I know, and it's because we do marketing within
integrity.
Jace (13:26):
Yeah, that, like I love.
We were on a on a sales callthis week and I and you I was
like which sales call did Iwrite this down?
Yeah, and you, multiple timesyou said we are not your best
fit for this section, but let merecommend some people who are.
And I went that's integrity.
That's how you do marketing.
(13:47):
Well, because you're marketingyour true self, which is that
authentic self.
But millions, if not billions,of dollars are spent on the
psychology of marketing.
What colors are going to makeyou feel what?
When you walk into the storeand it's placed here, how is
that going to get you to buy it?
It is manipulating humanemotion and not all do that.
We're seeing a real trend awayfrom that because people have
(14:08):
gotten wise and going no, I'mnot playing into this anymore.
We want to know your principles, we want to know your authentic
self.
They want to know the people.
I'll find things now, but all ofthat is fairly new.
So when we hear market yourself, what I used to interpret that
as is trick people into buyingmy thing, like there was a Make
them like you.
Yeah, there was a real yuckygriminess around marketing and
(14:31):
that cringe factor that I seewith so many people and so many
entrepreneurs.
When I was working with themit'd be like, oh no, I don't
want to do that, I don't want todo marketing because it's gross
.
And so I had to learn for myown success how to completely
change my relationship withmarketing and recognize that all
it is for me.
This was how I was like OK, itis a bridge.
(14:52):
It's the bridge between I havea service that I do particularly
well For a certain group ofpeople.
I'm going to be a really greatfit for them.
Marketing is the bridge thatlets the people who I am a great
fit for, who a business is agreat fit for, know that it
(15:12):
exists and can be valuable tothem.
That's it.
Kristelle (15:16):
That's marketing.
I have a story to support that.
There was to kind of changegears from agency owners.
I'm happy to take a phone callfrom anybody that just wants
some advice on how to marketthemselves, themselves, their
brand, et cetera.
Whether they hire us, great.
If they don't, that's OK.
I had to share a craft and atalent that I love, and
(15:36):
marketing and advertising isdefinitely obviously public
relations too.
So there was one person whocalled who had been a longtime
client of the firm and whilethis individual was changing
roles and organizations, leavingorganizations joining new ones,
this individual decided to goahead and run for office, talk
(15:57):
about marketing and beincredibly vulnerable.
So I was talking to thisindividual and this person said
Crystal, I don't know if I'mgoing to win.
And I said well, you better getyour head in the game and have
that winner mindset if you arebud, because this is going to be
a long road.
And this person said I just seethe parties Democrats and
(16:24):
Republicans working to mydisadvantage.
I see and understand thesystems behind the scenes.
Some of it I like, some of it Iagree with.
Some of these policies I thinkis great policies, some of this
I don't.
And I said how do I stand outfrom the rest?
And this person's race is notjust one.
If I tell you which race it is,our Albuquerque friends would
(16:46):
be like oh, I know exactly whoyou're talking about because
it's Albuquerque, but thisparticular race has a lot of
candidates, a lot of candidates.
And this person said what do Ido?
And I said what do you thinkyou should do?
And the individual said I thinkI should just say fuck it and
just be myself.
And I said well, here's thecase in point of how this
(17:08):
candidate actually did that.
And while this candidate didn'trun another candidate for a
different race, a different year, even a different age,
demographic than the person thatI was talking to for $19,000,
this person got 10% of the vote.
And this wasn't just a littledistrict vote, this was a
city-wide race that they got 10%of the vote on $19,000, because
(17:31):
that candidate wasauthentically themselves.
I think that marketers, orpeople that are marketing
themselves, absolutely need tojust say fuck it, I'm going to
do what I want to do.
It might be wrong, but am Igoing to regret it down the road
?
And the one thing that he hadsaid to wrap up this story, he
she said talk about trying notto be inconspicuous.
(17:55):
I said here she said I noticedthat my competitors I know them
really well.
I'm starting to see thatthey're just losing themselves
and I don't want to do that.
And I said then that's youranswer, bud than don't, yeah,
absolutely.
Like if you have a fucking I'mdone moment, if you have a
moment where you said I'm justgonna be authentically self, I'm
gonna be relentless, those arethe people that can live with
(18:16):
themselves after the loss yeah,either which way.
Jace (18:20):
I remember my first company was a production company
during media and my businesspartner was older and was a man
which was we're not man-shamingright now.
Kristelle (18:29):
No, no, no, that wasn't the problem.
Jace (18:31):
The problem was it's an industry where I was often the
only woman in the room and so Ihad stuff already built up
around that.
Or I remember when I worked forPBS, I hauled in all of the
equipment.
I set it all up like hundredsof pounds of gear and I'd hauled
it all in myself.
I set it all up whatever, andthen the subject that we're
(18:52):
interviewing comes in and startstelling me how he likes his
makeup done To you, the onlywoman in the room and the
producer who's this huge guystepped in and went I'll
actually be doing your makeup,and because it was like but that
was the assumption, right, so Iwas always underestimated in
(19:13):
that field.
So I already had that complexgoing on when I started my own
company and so we would go tomeetings and things that I would
be like super dressed up andjust trying to be like I'm a
professional, like I'm an adult.
Take me seriously.
Kristelle (19:27):
My favorite phrase you ever gave me was the CEO
costume.
Jace (19:29):
Yes, I would put on my CEO costume and my business partner
just had on like whatever TexasT-shirt he was wearing at the
time.
Kristelle (19:38):
Yeah, whatever right.
Jace (19:39):
And I would go in and I'd be like, oh, official, and I
felt so uncomfortable and Ihated it Because I was like,
take me seriously.
And finally he was like Jace,because they would.
They would at first, they woulddirect all questions to him,
Like I was his assistant, whichis what I was trying to avoid.
Can you see?
Just the fire just being builtup.
Well, except then they'd ask himquestions and he'd go Jace,
(20:03):
because I was the producer, Idid our business side, he was
the creative side.
So he didn't know the answer tothose questions.
So he told me one day.
He said Jace, wear whatever youwant, show up however you want.
Who cares if they think I'm theboss In five seconds, they
realize what's going on here.
And I was able to just let thatgo and actually show up as
myself.
And that's when we startedhaving more success, when I just
(20:25):
said fuck it.
Because it was so uncomfortableTo show up that way, because I
thought I had to market myselfin a particular way, to like
match what they were expectingand like be business.
Like I'm not business, I'mgonna have my shoes off.
Like this, like I finallybought a blazer so I could come
into the office with a blazer on, but I'm wearing ripped jeans
(20:46):
and then a tank top right now.
Like, so I'm not, I just can't,I'm just not very businessy,
that's not who I am.
And when I try to show up thatway, people feel it, they feel
that disconest.
Kristelle (20:54):
I think this is the first time I've actually seen
you wear a blazer.
Jace (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I used to have businessattire and then I was like I'm
working on farms and I'm a nomadand I got rid of all of it.
And then I was like a crazylady living in the woods, which
was one of my happiest times,and I was like I don't need any
of this stuff anymore.
Jokes on me.
Kristelle (21:10):
Yeah, jokes on you Back in the world.
Jace (21:11):
And even bigger.
My mom loves that.
She was like how you ended upworking in marketing is one of
the best cosmic jokes because ofhow much disdain I had for it
originally and how a big part ofmy second business failing was
because of the not marketingMyself component.
Because of how uncomfortable itwas and how yucky I thought
marketing was.
Kristelle (21:32):
Yeah.
Jace (21:33):
And then I came to learn I just had it all wrong.
Kristelle (21:37):
Yeah, I giggle because I remember a story in my
life where, in a roundabout way, a team member told the big
boss in the place where I workedand the big boss came down to
me and said who are you?
So-and-so is just a littledisgruntled that you didn't
(21:58):
brush your hair today and youdidn't dress up today and it was
the day after a long trip andobviously, like what we talked
about in the celebrate episode,celebrating the fact you took a
shower today, and I don't thinkI did, and I was so offended by
(22:19):
that.
It wasn't by the fact that itwas a comment about my race,
wasn't a comment about myeducation, my socioeconomic
level.
I was offended by the fact thatshe criticized how I didn't
brush my hair that day, andthat's when I knew that success
is not modeled by the way thatyou look.
I look at people like AliciaKeys.
(22:43):
Alicia Keys is the singer, notthe former economic development
secretary, satan in Mexico.
I look at Alicia Keys and shehad a moment Like today is a no
makeup day.
She said you know what?
I've been living my life in away where I wear a lot of makeup
.
As long as I have a goodskincare routine, I'm fine, I'm
not going to wear makeup today.
(23:03):
What's her talent?
Singing Right.
What's her talent being in theindustry.
What's her success being a momMarried to Swiss Beats, one of
the most successful hip hopproducers in the world?
She's successful.
Did she have to do it wearingmakeup?
Jace (23:16):
No, Maybe she did, though, if she came out of the gate.
Kristelle (23:21):
She did in the beginning.
Jace (23:22):
There is something about like when you have to wear your
CEO costume, because sometimesit's harder to hear the message
if the package is so outside ofour expectations.
So as much as I want to saylike, be like we have a big
presentation with a clienttomorrow, I will wear shoes,
right.
Like Ed knows when to wearpants, he wears shorts.
(23:42):
He doesn't walk around theoffice pantsless.
I just want to make that veryclear.
But like he knows when he needsclothes toed shoes, I know.
When I need a blazer, I'm likeis this a pants thing?
Why is Crystal?
running a company where peopledon't wear pants.
They all wear some form ofbottoms that cover.
Everything that needs to becovered is covered in the office
.
Kristelle (24:01):
I'm not wearing pants today.
Jace (24:02):
It's a skirt, it's covered , everything is appropriately
covered.
I assure you all fear not.
But if I didn't and people gotso caught up in the like, this
isn't what I'm expecting.
We can lose the message, andthe message is so much of what
marketing is.
Kristelle (24:18):
Sure, and I do ask myself that question when I get
ready in the morning and I saidI'm about to do a very big
presentation.
I have an oversized closet.
Right now it's a regular closet, but it's just oversized
because it's overstuffed, it'spacked, it's packed right and
it's got the CEO costumes on theleft, the golf and the long
seeds at the top, and then mypants and my sweaters on the
(24:41):
bottom, my hoodies.
That's part of the CEO costume.
Is that iconic hoodie from thesocial network movie, right?
Whatever, I'm gonna get thatout of it and I say I'm gonna
put this on.
If they can't see my message,the team's talent, my talent,
and if they're so distracted bywhat I wear or the pimple on my
(25:03):
face, they are definitely notmeant to be a client.
That's what I say to myselfevery day, you know.
Jace (25:09):
And sometimes that makes sense and sometimes that's a
luxury component, right, like wedon't have to land every client
, we don't have to force everyclient at this point, like
that's a sign of success in abusiness.
I remember my first client.
Kristelle (25:21):
I turned away and I was like oh shit, I'm here.
Jace (25:24):
Like it's a big deal to be able to do that.
So even that is a luxury to doit.
And there are some things wherehave we had an episode about
saying no?
Kristelle (25:32):
No, no, that's gonna be a good one.
Okay, we got it right, butwe're going to.
I love no.
Jace (25:36):
No is like the most empowering word of all time.
I was like nine, nine and anywhich way you wanna say it Nope,
nope, nope, sir.
So there's something aboutpackaging for marketing and even
for ourselves, but I do agreethat there's a way to do it.
That's true.
Right Like, yeah, I got myblazer on, but then I have
ripped jeans on Right Like.
(25:56):
Then I'm like I still got mytats, like everything.
So it's like, it's not likeI've completely transformed.
I can't not have them.
I was on a TV show and they putmakeup on my foot tattoo.
Oh, because of the like.
What will people think?
Kristelle (26:10):
The perception.
Jace (26:11):
If you have a tattoo, thank God.
Like this was years ago, so Ididn't have any of my other
visible tattoos yet I rememberthinking like really, your
audience can't handle a floweron my foot.
That's gonna really throw themoff.
So like there's extremes, right.
But if packaging didn't matter,then all of the products would
just come in clear plastic wrapor brown paper sacks or whatever
(26:34):
Like.
Appearance is part of marketingand I think it's important to
be true to who you are, but alsolive in the reality of the
society we're in today.
Kristelle (26:42):
And I think, along those same lines, tone right.
When we look at marketing.
You know the kind of going backto what you were saying about
an individual.
Let's take it from a brandperspective.
Whenever we work with a clientand we talk about starting, what
is their foundational fourpillars of how a strategy is
drafted by Ciarza?
(27:03):
It's voice, visuals, relevancyand target audience, right.
Those are the four that we lookat.
Of course, classic marketinghas more to it, but to keep it
simple, so we talked aboutvisuals, right, the appearance
is exactly what you just said.
I think marketing ourselvesalso talks about tone right.
We talked about being Our voice,our voice, et cetera.
(27:25):
I do find, though, that thesuccessful entrepreneurs agency
owners, businesses they'rereally able to insert themselves
when it's a time, to berelevant, right Like it's great
that channel four calls me oncein a while and says, hey, can
you give us an idea aboutcrowdsourcing for fundraising
(27:48):
for families?
Recently, I was on channel fourtalking about threads as a new
social network and what is theimpact of that upon the social
community, and I think that'sbeing relevant to the
conversation when you'remarketing yourself is really key
.
I love and hate Gary Vaynerchuk.
Jace (28:11):
Perfect example.
Kristelle (28:12):
Gary Vee was really critical for me to learn how to
be authentic, because the factthat the guy can pretty much say
the one time I don't work iswhen I'm watching a Jets game.
I'm like, okay, I'm down forthat.
Jets is sports ball, it'sfootball Okay, good.
Jace (28:30):
I know I assume he's not watching Jets like overhead.
Look, I'm gonna stop work.
Kristelle (28:35):
I love it.
Maybe I should know I will dothat.
I might be deaf by the end ofit, but I love Jets.
Okay, when are they from?
Jace (28:44):
No, I'm like it's not the New York Jets.
Yes, it is yeah, knew it.
See, I know the things.
Hey, sports ball Fancy feast.
Kristelle (28:53):
Fancy feast.
So you know, when I look atGary Vee and he talks about a
lot of topics that are just notrelevant or you know they might
not be, or I might not just bein the right space or in the
right mindset to hear what he'sgot to say he talks about
(29:14):
success a lot His success, hisfailures, how he motivates
people in a very tough love typeof way on how to get there and,
as great as that is, like,sometimes it's just not relevant
, right, like the conversation.
And, granted, I don't likeactively seek out his content
anymore, but when I do comeacross it, sometimes I'm like,
(29:38):
no, I'm just gonna, you know,scroll up right, Just pass on
the content, whatever that mightbe.
And I think it's important thatfinding and it's just a very
good PR trait right From apublic relations perspective, if
you are going to be marketingyourself and you want to insert
yourself in the conversation,obviously know what you're
talking about, be the subjectmatter expert that you are, also
(29:59):
be relevant to where it'stimely, right, there is going to
be a factor, it is the righttime to comment and make sure
you're doing it at a timeframewhere, if you say it too late,
nobody's gonna care at thatpoint.
Somebody's already made theirmark, somebody's already said it
before you, or somebody'scapitalized on the opportunity.
I think marketing yourselfreally is important.
(30:20):
It's really important to findthe relevant factor.
Jace (30:24):
Yes, and I'm gonna put a twist on that.
We're being relevant and, likesomebody already said it, gary
Vee's voice just goes in and outone ear for me.
He is not my jam.
His style does not resonatewith me.
Someone else saying the exactsame thing in their own voice.
(30:46):
That's relevant to me, that Ican hear that has the visuals
and the tone that resonate withme are going to be the person
that I move towards Somebodywith a similar, like calm and
fun tone, yeah.
So I was like just like down toearth, like my mentor is like I
always joke but it's not a jokeLike she's the most connected
person I know to like intuitionand I mean she's, it's amazing.
(31:08):
But she'll also be the firstperson to make fake fart sounds
when we're doing a silent groupmeditation.
Like she doesn't take any of itseriously at all and she just
keeps it real right, and thatspeaks to me.
And she's not professional eventhough she's very successful.
So that authentic piece is asuper important component, cause
, even if someone said, or evenif you're supposed to look this
(31:30):
way, that's not going to vibewith some people.
And I really think and wetalked about this a bit during
our competition in it to win itepisode that when it comes to
branding and marketing yourself,there isn't competition.
That's there because somepeople are going to love Gary
Vee and they're going to goright to him.
Then some people wouldgravitate towards you and I as a
speaker or as a consultant,right Like it's going to be very
(31:53):
different.
So that authentic piece issuper important, whether that's
your business or yourself, oryour product or a service, or
even just out in the world at asocial event.
We're marketing ourselves.
You out in the dating worldGuess what you leave.
Marketing yourself.
This right now, this podcastyou guys maybe don't know it.
(32:14):
This is content marketing.
This is marketing, but we do itin a value based way where
we're not asking y'all foranything.
We never do right Except tosubscribe.
So we know you like it.
Kristelle (32:24):
When we first started the podcast originally, the
concept was just me right.
Me and Justin, but do youremember when I asked you, I
said will you do it with me?
Because I need somebody to feedoff of or somebody to help
narrate and navigate theconversation.
(32:46):
At what point, as you kind ofput as a potential takeaway too,
at what point is it right forsomebody that's marketing
themselves to actually bring ina team?
Jace (32:57):
Yes, I love this question.
Someone said at one point to notput your original dollars like
if you're starting business,resources are limited for most
of us to not put your originaldollars towards marketing, and I
think that that is wrong allthe way.
When I look at, when I look atmy first business, we put our
(33:18):
money towards equipment, all thestuff that was dumb.
One of my big lessons that Itook away from my first business
was how to invest initialresources, and so not having
brought on someone who knew whatthey were doing and was willing
to do it was a mistake that Imade.
So I think for me, when I lookat when is it time to bring on a
team One?
(33:38):
If you will not do it, if it'slike I can't market myself, I
can't speak on my own behalf, itmakes me super uncomfortable,
or it's just not getting donebecause there's that inner
resistance, then bring onsomeone who can.
Not having it done is not anoption.
So if you can't do it, or ifyou don't have time to do it, or
(33:59):
if you're bad at it, we havethis notion that I don't know
how America came to this, thatwe're all supposed to be
excellent at everything.
Like do you know how many youknow components go into running
a business and as entrepreneurs,we're supposed to know how to
do all of it ourselves and do itwell.
Kristelle (34:15):
And function.
Yeah, I'm really good atnapping because I'm they're
terrible at a lot of things andI'm terrible at napping.
Jace (34:23):
I just can't do it.
I gotta outsource my napping.
So, the truth is, some peoplejust are not good at marketing.
That's totally okay.
You don't have to be.
Bring someone on who is so.
If you can't do it, you won'tdo it.
You're not good at doing it oryou don't have time to do it.
Bring on a team that resonateswith you.
Kristelle (34:40):
When we first started the company, it was very easy
to put our initial presentationdeck together.
I would have photos of myselftalking about myself as an
agency owner, my experience inmarketing, and then the second
slide would be who's the targetaudience for CR's social digital
?
And it was this diamond splitin half, it was our diamond
(35:00):
split in half, and it would bethose who understand it but
don't have time to do it, orthose who don't understand
digital marketing at all.
And that's how we had actuallystarted the organization and
people got it right away.
They're like oh yeah, no, wedon't have time to do it and I
actually it's funny just to kindof defend some of the decision
making or the nose that I'vegiven.
(35:20):
They're actually havingcompanies that have came to us
and said I'd like to work withyou guys from the gate, and I
said I don't think that's a goodidea.
I said why?
And I said I don't actuallythink that you're ready.
They don't have a fleshed outbusiness plan.
They don't have a financialmodel, I said no.
Well, I'll never forget one ofmy favorite sales calls.
(35:42):
It was a person that neverhired us and it was crazy, right
, like why would that be a greatsales call?
But one of my favorite salescalls was the fact that this
gentleman had found us throughsearch engine optimization Like
that worked which we offer as aservice.
Jace (35:58):
by the way, we're far more than a marketing firm.
This episode brought to you byCRZ.
Kristelle (36:04):
Shameless plug.
Yeah, this guy had found usthrough search engine
optimization and he said youknow, I just need some advice.
I'm about to buy a business, apiece of a franchise, and I just
want to know how much it wouldtake, like, what should I be
doing for marketing right away?
And I said save your money?
He said, oh, why, really?
And I said well, first off, youknow, this particular franchise
might actually have somemarketing tools and resources as
(36:26):
a part of their vendor fee, sowhy pay for double right Totes?
And then, on top of that, Isaid also, you know, you're
going to be having to spend alot of time on infrastructure If
we get you the business andthis has happened, yes, if we
get you the business right awaybut you're not ready for it
operationally or infrastructurewise, you're actually going to
(36:46):
hurt your reputation.
Good point, and yes, it hasactually happened where we've
worked with a new business andthey said you know what?
The marketing was really great,but it didn't live up to the
marketing expectations.
It's happened to us.
Sure, yeah, and it's like wetry to help our client, you know
, get to the point where theyneed to be.
We try to help the individuallearn.
(37:06):
Like you know, if we're goingto go full court, press, make
sure the basketball hoop isready, right, seriously, yeah, I
know I love that.
Jace (37:13):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a perfect analogy.
Kristelle (37:16):
And not only that, but also be ready to play the
game.
So we run into that from timeto time that you know a client
is new or they've gotten theirfeet wet.
You know, a sweet spot for usis when a client has been open
now from six months all the wayup to 18 months.
That's a really great sweetspot for us.
Or they're a long timeorganization.
That's just like we're done.
We have new management, we justneed a new way of thinking
(37:38):
about marketing.
Can you guys do this for us?
Great fit, yeah, so you know,yes.
Like when I say that thecompany is ready for us, we also
say that the individual, thebusiness owner, is ready for us,
because the business owneralways knows we got to put them
at the forefront.
Or we got to make sure thatthey're a voice in the
(37:59):
conversation of their brand.
I think of the people in a kindof a good way to kind of wrap
up and summarize like why ismarketing important for an
individual?
I think about the people that Ilook up to in terms of what
success milestone do they dothat?
I want to be up.
Even Longoria is a perfectexample.
Jessica Alba is another perfectexample and the team might be
(38:23):
super tired of me using thisanalogy Richard Branson and
Virgin.
I might not be an Englishplayboy or own an island in the
middle of nowhere.
Jace (38:34):
I was going to ask how close we are to that island
money.
Could we even have a jet?
We've got.
Kristelle (38:41):
No, I'm going to go build one myself, I guess just
the way that Richard did.
Wait, think about it, though.
Richard said as a little boy Iknew that I wanted.
When I looked up at the starsas a kid he said this while he
was in the Virgin Galactic Unityflight said I always knew I
wanted to get to space.
I knew that I wanted to bringothers to travel to the world's
(39:06):
wildest adventures and that'swhy I created Virgin Galactic.
I want to be just like him.
I want people to dream justlike I did, and I want to put
myself out there.
He, homeboy, did not have toget into that damn spacecraft,
but he marketed himself bygetting in the spacecraft, going
through the space, training andgetting up in the air Brilliant
way to market yourself.
(39:27):
I mean, I'm not tellingeverybody to go build your own
spaceship, but that would bereally fucking cool.
I was like I'm going to needsome time off.
Jace (39:34):
I wish we had enough time to go over things to look for
and questions to ask whenbringing on a marketing team or
professional.
But how about we get a blogpost together and have that
guidance for people?
So if they are in a positionwhere it is time to outsource
their marketing, or even they'rejust needing help with a
(39:55):
marketing strategy, they havethose resources.
Kristelle (39:58):
I'll say that really quickly In like 30 seconds.
The easiest way for you to findthe right agency or the right
team to help you build yourbrand as a marketer is the one
that understands your cultureand is a good culture fit for
you.
I said that on the sales callthat we had recently.
Right, it's the best way.
We've lost a lot of businessthat way by me being authentic
and saying like you have to findthe right culture fit, yeah,
(40:19):
yeah.
And so I think that's thenumber one way.
Like if somebody matches yourtone, like if you're trying to
be fast, they got to be fast tooand you got to be willing to
pay for fast too.
If they want to be methodicaland they want to be specific,
and that's the type of tone thatyou are and that's the culture
that you live in.
That's the type of agency thatyou need to find.
(40:40):
Not everybody realizes that inthe beginning, and I think
that's why agencies fail a lottoo, so that they try to meet
the expectation of the client,but the client and the agency
need to meet each other'sexpectations.
Jace (40:53):
That's that bridge right.
Are we a good fit for what youneed?
And then that marketing shouldexplain that, so only the right
people are coming in.
We also have a blog post outthis month Come to think about
it on marketing metamorphosisthe different transformations
that have happened in marketingover the last 10 years.
You can check that out atCRSAcom.
Kristelle (41:12):
Yep, we had a really great episode for today, but
that's definitely going to beour last couple of words.
If you should enjoy today'sepisode, don't forget to follow
us on your favorite socialnetwork, subscribe and say hello
to our two moms that listen tothe show.
We are looking forward to nextweek's episode we're going to be
talking about motivation.
Jace (41:34):
Oh yeah, I don't know what to mean to sing that, but it
felt right.
I almost said metamorphosis.
Metamorphosis, that could alsobe true.
Kristelle (41:40):
But going beyond motivation, yeah, how to stay
motivated, or we can get agrasshopper metamorphosizing OK.
Jace (41:48):
Thanks for joining us.
I was like who on our team doesthat, justin?
Is that you?
Do you get?
Kristelle (41:53):
the grasshopper?
We're probably Ed.
Ed, we're going to need agrasshopper, it's probably Ed.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll see you on our nextepisode.
Yes, all agency owners struggle with marketing
themselves as individuals, asthe thought leader themselves,
as well as the agency as a whole.
They think that they can leanon that, or they sometimes
forget the agency needs to beits own client.
Welcome back to Story Successand Stuff.
Crystal here, jace here and weare talking about a topic that
(00:24):
makes so much sense.
We thought fully did not putthis as topic number one.
Very true, because there ismore to Story Success and Stuff.
Indeed, the topic is marketing,marketing success, the
importance of marketing insuccess.
My favorite phrase that you putin our guide for today is if
(00:44):
you build it, they won't come,they won't come.
Jace (00:48):
Yes, I look forward to explain more and if you're
listening and you're like I'mnot a business owner, I'm not an
entrepreneur, stick aroundanyway.
Marketing is for everyone andwe actually all do it all the
time and even if you don't domarketing, you are being
marketed to all the time, justconstantly.
Marketing is so ingrained inour life.
(01:08):
Even the way we think nowadayscomes down to how things have
been marketed our one-liners,the way we do storytelling
nowadays.
Marketing is our culture andpeople have a lot of fear on
that.
I did.
I had a really big negativeview of marketing for a long
time and I've really changed myrelationship.
(01:30):
So hang with us.
Marketing is for everyone.
This episode is absolutely foreverybody.
Kristelle (01:35):
So this episode for me, in terms of points,
takeaways, etc.
This podcast is a major shoutout to all of the counselors in
the Counselors Academy of thePublic Relations Society of
America.
The Counselors Academy is aspecial section where we are all
(01:56):
agency owners and why I thinkthis is a very good topic for
them.
Not because they're going totake this content back to their
teams, this is, to that ownerthat doesn't realize how
important it is to marketthemselves.
And yes, I'm looking at you,all of the C-levels chief
(02:17):
creative officers that arelistening to this one.
Of course, I am going to shoutout that the Counselors Academy
conference is happening in Aprilin Palm Springs, that I hope
that you all can make it.
For more information, go toPRSAorg and find the Counselors
Academy section.
Boom Marketing, boom Marketing.
Jace (02:37):
Boom Marketing Right there .
Kristelle (02:39):
Marketing.
So the reason why I really lovethis episode for them is
because agency owners, publicrelations owners, marketing
agency owners, advertisingagency owners hate to market
themselves.
They love to do marketing forother businesses, but they fail
(02:59):
at marketing themselves.
Jace (03:01):
That is true across the board for everyone I've ever
encountered.
Yeah, and it makes sense.
We have a pretty negative viewof what marketing is.
It's something.
When I did more entrepreneurialconsulting in Austin, people
would have great ideas and theywould be really, really, really
excited about their idea andthey'd be like, yeah, that is,
(03:21):
that's a really cool idea.
What's your marketing plan?
And if your answer was about tobe you, let me break it to you
nobody cares.
And now and I don't mean that ina harsh way, but one no one's
ever going to be as excitedabout your ideas you are.
It's not their idea.
They might go, that's neat,whatever, Most of us aren't as
(03:44):
big of a draw as we think we are.
Yeah, we just aren't, becausemost of the world doesn't know
us.
Right.
And even if you have theabsolute best idea and this is
what this is why this isimportant to me, because so many
people do set out on their ownto do their side hustle, to
start a business, whatever andwithout a marketing plan, you
are going to fail.
I'm sorry you are.
If you have the best idea andnobody knows about it, you're
(04:07):
going to fail.
Kristelle (04:08):
Yeah, and from the perspective of an agency owner
along those same lines, we feelthat sometimes we can put our
team out there or we can put thecase studies of the agency out
there.
Well, if you're an agency thatonly has about two or three case
(04:28):
studies in a particularindustry or scope of service and
you want to branch out into newindustries or new services,
well, that marketing approachwon't work anymore.
And or being methodical aboutyou know what, what are we going
to put out there aboutourselves?
I think one of the greatestcompliments that we've received
(04:50):
you and I have received aboutthis podcast so far is another
agency going up to us and sayingwe got to up our game because
they're crushing it right now interms of marketing the agency.
But we're not saying go buy CRSservices at CRScom.
What we're saying is this iswhat it's like to be behind the
scenes with us and just get toknow us.
(05:10):
Right, that's definitely amarketing strategy, absolutely,
but you know so.
So what we?
So going back to the the, whatare the challenges that we see
from agencies that run into the?
How do I market myself?
The first step is just openingthe door and letting, letting
your heart be open to marketingthe C level, the headshots, the
(05:32):
speaker bios, the resumes, thevulnerability of meeting new
people Like you.
Just got to go and do it.
Jace (05:39):
I'm going to say that's step two.
Yeah, step one.
This strategy Nine, nine,that's not step nine, that was
German, for no.
We have to be comfortableenough with ourselves to be
vulnerable.
Yeah, to put to put yourself oncamera, even if that's just a
(06:03):
headshot and I'm sure Justincould attest to this, it's very
young, it's.
You're just out there,basically naked right From from
a, being looked at.
Yeah, you're exposed andallowing others that you cannot
control look into you.
Yeah, that's a.
That's actually a really scarything.
When I used to do coaching forpeople on camera, they'd be like
(06:25):
, why is this so hard?
And I'm like cause you'reexposing who you are out into
the world with and then you justlet it go.
Yeah, that's a really scarything.
And so if I'm not confidentenough to at least know like I'm
, I'm safe in who I am and it'sokay for people to look at me,
then those steps are going to bereally hard.
So I think there's some innerwork to be done as step one
(06:47):
before.
All of that is in the mix oralong with it.
Cause it's an ongoing path,right Like.
Authenticity is not a switch,it doesn't go on and off, it's a
spectrum.
Kristelle (06:54):
Yeah, no.
So when I was a part ofcounselors academy, I met a lot
of other or still part ofcounselors academy.
One of the cool things that Isaw was, you know, as an
individual, I would see peoplethat look look, not look like me
like there was definitely adiversity issue that's being
solved right now but they had alot of the same skill sets as me
(07:16):
.
They had a team of less than 15.
They had an income of twomillion and below.
They were once public relations, digital advertising people
that got into the game andwanted to be their own boss Same
thing as I am.
But the one thing that we allshared was that awkwardness of
saying I don't know anybody here.
(07:36):
I know we all have a commonbond.
I know these are my people, buthow do I get myself out there
and market my own agency?
Jace (07:46):
A video is going through my, because I'm actually I have
social anxiety and I can bepretty socially awkward, and I
usually have some weird jokegoing through my mind that I'm
just trying to hold Like.
They just asked me do you wantanything from sushi, freak?
And I just stared silentlybecause I was shutting down
multiple inappropriate jokesthat were going through my head
To which I just went.
(08:06):
Nope, I don't, but I'm here.
I sent a video to a friend I'mlike this is me and it was a
woman practicing things to sayat a social event, and one of
them was I've got a pocket fullof spiders and I was like yes,
that is some weird song I wouldbreak out into in social footing
.
Kristelle (08:24):
Well, just, hysterical Cause in another
previous podcast that we did.
You were like.
So what do you do for fun, likeyou had asked that as your
social anxiety question right, Ihave a skill set around my
awkwardness.
Jace (08:36):
Now I know how to go and be in the world as me and even
as awkward yeah.
Kristelle (08:42):
Well, I remember my first counselors Academy, right,
and it was in Scottsdale,arizona and you know.
Staying on the topic ofmarketing and marketing
yourselves Like, I rememberspecifically going up to
somebody and be like I'm sureyou're probably as uncomfortable
as I am when it comes togetting myself out there, but
I'm crystal, I don't knowanybody here and I have no idea
what I'm doing, and they werelike you're in the right place?
Jace (09:04):
Yeah, and speaking we call that acknowledge the obvious.
Yeah, and it's a killer?
Yeah, absolutely.
Kristelle (09:10):
Yeah.
So I do want to say, though,when what I also found out at
that same conference inScottsdale, one of my first
counselors Academy, is that, yes, all agency owners struggle
with marketing themselves asindividuals, as the thought
leader themselves, as well asthe agency as a whole.
They think that they can leanon that, or they sometimes
forget the agency needs to beits own client.
Yeah, and I find that verycommon with other marketing
(09:33):
agencies, where they they andI've even had conversations with
other counselors where they sayI'm getting out of the game.
And I said, well, why, why, why?
Like I don't want to, I don'twant to discourage you from from
putting in the or throwing inthe towel, but like I hope
everything's okay.
Yeah, and they said, well, Idon't like to market myself and
I don't want to do the businessdevelopment.
And I said, well, there's thensee you later.
Jace (09:56):
Yeah, 100%.
I'd say that for any industry.
If you're not going to bewilling and go back to our
episode, check yourself beforeyou wreck yourself.
Where we're talking about egobut a lot of us get caught in
this notion.
If I am talking about myself orif I'm saying like, hey, I do
this, well then I'm beingegotistical or self center.
(10:17):
We have a real negative viewaround that, and even when you
said market yourself, oh, Icould feel cringing, yeah,
happening, and I watched, and Iused to do it too where I just
it was like oh, no, no, no, no.
But when you're the product, andespecially if you're an
entrepreneur sorry folks, yeah,you are the product, yeah,
you're the product, you're theservice.
(10:38):
You have just put yourself in asales position.
You are selling yourself, andthen you also do something you
love.
Yeah, but you are now inmarketing.
Yeah, welcome to it.
That's your main job now, notsomething that we talk about
nearly enough.
But this idea of marketingyourself, the language, I think,
has gotten really stickybecause you, as you know, you
know better than anyone.
In the past, the marketingrealm and the advertising realm
(11:00):
was pretty gross.
It was about learning humanpsychology to manipulate it for
sales for money.
That that was the original like, or that's what it became.
It became about manipulatingfor money.
Kristelle (11:15):
Yeah, and that's where I think people, that's
where we disagree.
Like I love marketing, but Ilove responsible marketing right
, and I love the like, thedefinite, the textbook
definition of marketing isproduct place, price and
promotion right, and here we seethat there are things that have
been taken to the extremes ofsome sort, where I understand
(11:39):
that people take advantage of it.
But good marketers and good,responsible marketing I think
call me an optimist if you will,and I think that's very valid.
I didn't mean to interrupt, butI say that when it comes to the
right type of subject matter,experts when it comes to
marketing themselves are theones that obviously are
authentic, right, who they arebehind closed doors or who they
(12:00):
are in a public setting.
I think really good marketersare the ones that are willing to
have conversations that aretransparent and transparent
enough and honestly like, ifyou're a good human being,
you're going to be a reallygreat marketer for yourself.
I say this because there was ateam member of ours a long time
ago.
Justin remembers him I thinkyou might have inter-counter
with him.
His name was River Marquez.
(12:21):
River was.
It was really great to the team.
And I remember having this verycandid conversation with River
while he was in a role ofbusiness development and I said,
okay, let's, this is versionnumber two of our business
development strategy for CRSA.
And I said I hate being thecenter of attention and he goes
you're going to have to.
(12:42):
And I said I don't like beingegotistical and I want to stay
humble and he goes I understandthat, but the company needs you.
And he was like 23 when he saidthat and fresh out of college
under got his marketingcommunications degree and I was
like, thank you, I really neededthat reminder and I think every
agency owner, every, everysmall business owner, needs to
(13:02):
remember that even this, eventhis podcast, is a major
vulnerable element ofunderstanding Like we have to
market CRSA in a way wherepeople know who we are and
they're willing to work with usbecause they see the stories and
success, hopefully down theroad right.
Jace (13:18):
Then they can create their own.
And, yes, we do ethical market.
There's a reason I work forthis company.
Kristelle (13:23):
I know, and it's because we do marketing within
integrity.
Jace (13:26):
Yeah, that, like I love.
We were on a on a sales callthis week and I and you I was
like which sales call did Iwrite this down?
Yeah, and you, multiple timesyou said we are not your best
fit for this section, but let merecommend some people who are.
And I went that's integrity.
That's how you do marketing.
(13:47):
Well, because you're marketingyour true self, which is that
authentic self.
But millions, if not billions,of dollars are spent on the
psychology of marketing.
What colors are going to makeyou feel what?
When you walk into the storeand it's placed here, how is
that going to get you to buy it?
It is manipulating humanemotion and not all do that.
We're seeing a real trend awayfrom that because people have
(14:08):
gotten wise and going no, I'mnot playing into this anymore.
We want to know your principles, we want to know your authentic
self.
They want to know the people.
I'll find things now, but all ofthat is fairly new.
So when we hear market yourself, what I used to interpret that
as is trick people into buyingmy thing, like there was a Make
them like you.
Yeah, there was a real yuckygriminess around marketing and
(14:31):
that cringe factor that I seewith so many people and so many
entrepreneurs.
When I was working with themit'd be like, oh no, I don't
want to do that, I don't want todo marketing because it's gross
.
And so I had to learn for myown success how to completely
change my relationship withmarketing and recognize that all
it is for me.
This was how I was like OK, itis a bridge.
(14:52):
It's the bridge between I havea service that I do particularly
well For a certain group ofpeople.
I'm going to be a really greatfit for them.
Marketing is the bridge thatlets the people who I am a great
fit for, who a business is agreat fit for, know that it
(15:12):
exists and can be valuable tothem.
That's it.
Kristelle (15:16):
That's marketing.
I have a story to support that.
There was to kind of changegears from agency owners.
I'm happy to take a phone callfrom anybody that just wants
some advice on how to marketthemselves, themselves, their
brand, et cetera.
Whether they hire us, great.
If they don't, that's OK.
I had to share a craft and atalent that I love, and
(15:36):
marketing and advertising isdefinitely obviously public
relations too.
So there was one person whocalled who had been a longtime
client of the firm and whilethis individual was changing
roles and organizations, leavingorganizations joining new ones,
this individual decided to goahead and run for office, talk
(15:57):
about marketing and beincredibly vulnerable.
So I was talking to thisindividual and this person said
Crystal, I don't know if I'mgoing to win.
And I said well, you better getyour head in the game and have
that winner mindset if you arebud, because this is going to be
a long road.
And this person said I just seethe parties Democrats and
(16:24):
Republicans working to mydisadvantage.
I see and understand thesystems behind the scenes.
Some of it I like, some of it Iagree with.
Some of these policies I thinkis great policies, some of this
I don't.
And I said how do I stand outfrom the rest?
And this person's race is notjust one.
If I tell you which race it is,our Albuquerque friends would
(16:46):
be like oh, I know exactly whoyou're talking about because
it's Albuquerque, but thisparticular race has a lot of
candidates, a lot of candidates.
And this person said what do Ido?
And I said what do you thinkyou should do?
And the individual said I thinkI should just say fuck it and
just be myself.
And I said well, here's thecase in point of how this
(17:08):
candidate actually did that.
And while this candidate didn'trun another candidate for a
different race, a different year, even a different age,
demographic than the person thatI was talking to for $19,000,
this person got 10% of the vote.
And this wasn't just a littledistrict vote, this was a
city-wide race that they got 10%of the vote on $19,000, because
(17:31):
that candidate wasauthentically themselves.
I think that marketers, orpeople that are marketing
themselves, absolutely need tojust say fuck it, I'm going to
do what I want to do.
It might be wrong, but am Igoing to regret it down the road
?
And the one thing that he hadsaid to wrap up this story, he
she said talk about trying notto be inconspicuous.
(17:55):
I said here she said I noticedthat my competitors I know them
really well.
I'm starting to see thatthey're just losing themselves
and I don't want to do that.
And I said then that's youranswer, bud than don't, yeah,
absolutely.
Like if you have a fucking I'mdone moment, if you have a
moment where you said I'm justgonna be authentically self, I'm
gonna be relentless, those arethe people that can live with
(18:16):
themselves after the loss yeah,either which way.
Jace (18:20):
I remember my first company was a production company
during media and my businesspartner was older and was a man
which was we're not man-shamingright now.
Kristelle (18:29):
No, no, no, that wasn't the problem.
Jace (18:31):
The problem was it's an industry where I was often the
only woman in the room and so Ihad stuff already built up
around that.
Or I remember when I worked forPBS, I hauled in all of the
equipment.
I set it all up like hundredsof pounds of gear and I'd hauled
it all in myself.
I set it all up whatever, andthen the subject that we're
(18:52):
interviewing comes in and startstelling me how he likes his
makeup done To you, the onlywoman in the room and the
producer who's this huge guystepped in and went I'll
actually be doing your makeup,and because it was like but that
was the assumption, right, so Iwas always underestimated in
(19:13):
that field.
So I already had that complexgoing on when I started my own
company and so we would go tomeetings and things that I would
be like super dressed up andjust trying to be like I'm a
professional, like I'm an adult.
Take me seriously.
Kristelle (19:27):
My favorite phrase you ever gave me was the CEO
costume.
Jace (19:29):
Yes, I would put on my CEO costume and my business partner
just had on like whatever TexasT-shirt he was wearing at the
time.
Kristelle (19:38):
Yeah, whatever right.
Jace (19:39):
And I would go in and I'd be like, oh, official, and I
felt so uncomfortable and Ihated it Because I was like,
take me seriously.
And finally he was like Jace,because they would.
They would at first, they woulddirect all questions to him,
Like I was his assistant, whichis what I was trying to avoid.
Can you see?
Just the fire just being builtup.
Well, except then they'd ask himquestions and he'd go Jace,
(20:03):
because I was the producer, Idid our business side, he was
the creative side.
So he didn't know the answer tothose questions.
So he told me one day.
He said Jace, wear whatever youwant, show up however you want.
Who cares if they think I'm theboss In five seconds, they
realize what's going on here.
And I was able to just let thatgo and actually show up as
myself.
And that's when we startedhaving more success, when I just
(20:25):
said fuck it.
Because it was so uncomfortableTo show up that way, because I
thought I had to market myselfin a particular way, to like
match what they were expectingand like be business.
Like I'm not business, I'mgonna have my shoes off.
Like this, like I finallybought a blazer so I could come
into the office with a blazer on, but I'm wearing ripped jeans
(20:46):
and then a tank top right now.
Like, so I'm not, I just can't,I'm just not very businessy,
that's not who I am.
And when I try to show up thatway, people feel it, they feel
that disconest.
Kristelle (20:54):
I think this is the first time I've actually seen
you wear a blazer.
Jace (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I used to have businessattire and then I was like I'm
working on farms and I'm a nomadand I got rid of all of it.
And then I was like a crazylady living in the woods, which
was one of my happiest times,and I was like I don't need any
of this stuff anymore.
Jokes on me.
Kristelle (21:10):
Yeah, jokes on you Back in the world.
Jace (21:11):
And even bigger.
My mom loves that.
She was like how you ended upworking in marketing is one of
the best cosmic jokes because ofhow much disdain I had for it
originally and how a big part ofmy second business failing was
because of the not marketingMyself component.
Because of how uncomfortable itwas and how yucky I thought
marketing was.
Kristelle (21:32):
Yeah.
Jace (21:33):
And then I came to learn I just had it all wrong.
Kristelle (21:37):
Yeah, I giggle because I remember a story in my
life where, in a roundabout way, a team member told the big
boss in the place where I workedand the big boss came down to
me and said who are you?
So-and-so is just a littledisgruntled that you didn't
(21:58):
brush your hair today and youdidn't dress up today and it was
the day after a long trip andobviously, like what we talked
about in the celebrate episode,celebrating the fact you took a
shower today, and I don't thinkI did, and I was so offended by
(22:19):
that.
It wasn't by the fact that itwas a comment about my race,
wasn't a comment about myeducation, my socioeconomic
level.
I was offended by the fact thatshe criticized how I didn't
brush my hair that day, andthat's when I knew that success
is not modeled by the way thatyou look.
I look at people like AliciaKeys.
(22:43):
Alicia Keys is the singer, notthe former economic development
secretary, satan in Mexico.
I look at Alicia Keys and shehad a moment Like today is a no
makeup day.
She said you know what?
I've been living my life in away where I wear a lot of makeup
.
As long as I have a goodskincare routine, I'm fine, I'm
not going to wear makeup today.
(23:03):
What's her talent?
Singing Right.
What's her talent being in theindustry.
What's her success being a momMarried to Swiss Beats, one of
the most successful hip hopproducers in the world?
She's successful.
Did she have to do it wearingmakeup?
Jace (23:16):
No, Maybe she did, though, if she came out of the gate.
Kristelle (23:21):
She did in the beginning.
Jace (23:22):
There is something about like when you have to wear your
CEO costume, because sometimesit's harder to hear the message
if the package is so outside ofour expectations.
So as much as I want to saylike, be like we have a big
presentation with a clienttomorrow, I will wear shoes,
right.
Like Ed knows when to wearpants, he wears shorts.
(23:42):
He doesn't walk around theoffice pantsless.
I just want to make that veryclear.
But like he knows when he needsclothes toed shoes, I know.
When I need a blazer, I'm likeis this a pants thing?
Why is Crystal?
running a company where peopledon't wear pants.
They all wear some form ofbottoms that cover.
Everything that needs to becovered is covered in the office
.
Kristelle (24:01):
I'm not wearing pants today.
Jace (24:02):
It's a skirt, it's covered , everything is appropriately
covered.
I assure you all fear not.
But if I didn't and people gotso caught up in the like, this
isn't what I'm expecting.
We can lose the message, andthe message is so much of what
marketing is.
Kristelle (24:18):
Sure, and I do ask myself that question when I get
ready in the morning and I saidI'm about to do a very big
presentation.
I have an oversized closet.
Right now it's a regular closet, but it's just oversized
because it's overstuffed, it'spacked, it's packed right and
it's got the CEO costumes on theleft, the golf and the long
seeds at the top, and then mypants and my sweaters on the
(24:41):
bottom, my hoodies.
That's part of the CEO costume.
Is that iconic hoodie from thesocial network movie, right?
Whatever, I'm gonna get thatout of it and I say I'm gonna
put this on.
If they can't see my message,the team's talent, my talent,
and if they're so distracted bywhat I wear or the pimple on my
(25:03):
face, they are definitely notmeant to be a client.
That's what I say to myselfevery day, you know.
Jace (25:09):
And sometimes that makes sense and sometimes that's a
luxury component, right, like wedon't have to land every client
, we don't have to force everyclient at this point, like
that's a sign of success in abusiness.
I remember my first client.
Kristelle (25:21):
I turned away and I was like oh shit, I'm here.
Jace (25:24):
Like it's a big deal to be able to do that.
So even that is a luxury to doit.
And there are some things wherehave we had an episode about
saying no?
Kristelle (25:32):
No, no, that's gonna be a good one.
Okay, we got it right, butwe're going to.
I love no.
Jace (25:36):
No is like the most empowering word of all time.
I was like nine, nine and anywhich way you wanna say it Nope,
nope, nope, sir.
So there's something aboutpackaging for marketing and even
for ourselves, but I do agreethat there's a way to do it.
That's true.
Right Like, yeah, I got myblazer on, but then I have
ripped jeans on Right Like.
(25:56):
Then I'm like I still got mytats, like everything.
So it's like, it's not likeI've completely transformed.
I can't not have them.
I was on a TV show and they putmakeup on my foot tattoo.
Oh, because of the like.
What will people think?
Kristelle (26:10):
The perception.
Jace (26:11):
If you have a tattoo, thank God.
Like this was years ago, so Ididn't have any of my other
visible tattoos yet I rememberthinking like really, your
audience can't handle a floweron my foot.
That's gonna really throw themoff.
So like there's extremes, right.
But if packaging didn't matter,then all of the products would
just come in clear plastic wrapor brown paper sacks or whatever
(26:34):
Like.
Appearance is part of marketingand I think it's important to
be true to who you are, but alsolive in the reality of the
society we're in today.
Kristelle (26:42):
And I think, along those same lines, tone right.
When we look at marketing.
You know the kind of going backto what you were saying about
an individual.
Let's take it from a brandperspective.
Whenever we work with a clientand we talk about starting, what
is their foundational fourpillars of how a strategy is
drafted by Ciarza?
(27:03):
It's voice, visuals, relevancyand target audience, right.
Those are the four that we lookat.
Of course, classic marketinghas more to it, but to keep it
simple, so we talked aboutvisuals, right, the appearance
is exactly what you just said.
I think marketing ourselvesalso talks about tone right.
We talked about being Our voice,our voice, et cetera.
(27:25):
I do find, though, that thesuccessful entrepreneurs agency
owners, businesses they'rereally able to insert themselves
when it's a time, to berelevant, right Like it's great
that channel four calls me oncein a while and says, hey, can
you give us an idea aboutcrowdsourcing for fundraising
(27:48):
for families?
Recently, I was on channel fourtalking about threads as a new
social network and what is theimpact of that upon the social
community, and I think that'sbeing relevant to the
conversation when you'remarketing yourself is really key
.
I love and hate Gary Vaynerchuk.
Jace (28:11):
Perfect example.
Kristelle (28:12):
Gary Vee was really critical for me to learn how to
be authentic, because the factthat the guy can pretty much say
the one time I don't work iswhen I'm watching a Jets game.
I'm like, okay, I'm down forthat.
Jets is sports ball, it'sfootball Okay, good.
Jace (28:30):
I know I assume he's not watching Jets like overhead.
Look, I'm gonna stop work.
Kristelle (28:35):
I love it.
Maybe I should know I will dothat.
I might be deaf by the end ofit, but I love Jets.
Okay, when are they from?
Jace (28:44):
No, I'm like it's not the New York Jets.
Yes, it is yeah, knew it.
See, I know the things.
Hey, sports ball Fancy feast.
Kristelle (28:53):
Fancy feast.
So you know, when I look atGary Vee and he talks about a
lot of topics that are just notrelevant or you know they might
not be, or I might not just bein the right space or in the
right mindset to hear what he'sgot to say he talks about
(29:14):
success a lot His success, hisfailures, how he motivates
people in a very tough love typeof way on how to get there and,
as great as that is, like,sometimes it's just not relevant
, right, like the conversation.
And, granted, I don't likeactively seek out his content
anymore, but when I do comeacross it, sometimes I'm like,
(29:38):
no, I'm just gonna, you know,scroll up right, Just pass on
the content, whatever that mightbe.
And I think it's important thatfinding and it's just a very
good PR trait right From apublic relations perspective, if
you are going to be marketingyourself and you want to insert
yourself in the conversation,obviously know what you're
talking about, be the subjectmatter expert that you are, also
(29:59):
be relevant to where it'stimely, right, there is going to
be a factor, it is the righttime to comment and make sure
you're doing it at a timeframewhere, if you say it too late,
nobody's gonna care at thatpoint.
Somebody's already made theirmark, somebody's already said it
before you, or somebody'scapitalized on the opportunity.
I think marketing yourselfreally is important.
(30:20):
It's really important to findthe relevant factor.
Jace (30:24):
Yes, and I'm gonna put a twist on that.
We're being relevant and, likesomebody already said it, gary
Vee's voice just goes in and outone ear for me.
He is not my jam.
His style does not resonatewith me.
Someone else saying the exactsame thing in their own voice.
(30:46):
That's relevant to me, that Ican hear that has the visuals
and the tone that resonate withme are going to be the person
that I move towards Somebodywith a similar, like calm and
fun tone, yeah.
So I was like just like down toearth, like my mentor is like I
always joke but it's not a jokeLike she's the most connected
person I know to like intuitionand I mean she's, it's amazing.
(31:08):
But she'll also be the firstperson to make fake fart sounds
when we're doing a silent groupmeditation.
Like she doesn't take any of itseriously at all and she just
keeps it real right, and thatspeaks to me.
And she's not professional eventhough she's very successful.
So that authentic piece is asuper important component, cause
, even if someone said, or evenif you're supposed to look this
(31:30):
way, that's not going to vibewith some people.
And I really think and wetalked about this a bit during
our competition in it to win itepisode that when it comes to
branding and marketing yourself,there isn't competition.
That's there because somepeople are going to love Gary
Vee and they're going to goright to him.
Then some people wouldgravitate towards you and I as a
speaker or as a consultant,right Like it's going to be very
(31:53):
different.
So that authentic piece issuper important, whether that's
your business or yourself, oryour product or a service, or
even just out in the world at asocial event.
We're marketing ourselves.
You out in the dating worldGuess what you leave.
Marketing yourself.
This right now, this podcastyou guys maybe don't know it.
(32:14):
This is content marketing.
This is marketing, but we do itin a value based way where
we're not asking y'all foranything.
We never do right Except tosubscribe.
So we know you like it.
Kristelle (32:24):
When we first started the podcast originally, the
concept was just me right.
Me and Justin, but do youremember when I asked you, I
said will you do it with me?
Because I need somebody to feedoff of or somebody to help
narrate and navigate theconversation.
(32:46):
At what point, as you kind ofput as a potential takeaway too,
at what point is it right forsomebody that's marketing
themselves to actually bring ina team?
Jace (32:57):
Yes, I love this question.
Someone said at one point to notput your original dollars like
if you're starting business,resources are limited for most
of us to not put your originaldollars towards marketing, and I
think that that is wrong allthe way.
When I look at, when I look atmy first business, we put our
(33:18):
money towards equipment, all thestuff that was dumb.
One of my big lessons that Itook away from my first business
was how to invest initialresources, and so not having
brought on someone who knew whatthey were doing and was willing
to do it was a mistake that Imade.
So I think for me, when I lookat when is it time to bring on a
team One?
(33:38):
If you will not do it, if it'slike I can't market myself, I
can't speak on my own behalf, itmakes me super uncomfortable,
or it's just not getting donebecause there's that inner
resistance, then bring onsomeone who can.
Not having it done is not anoption.
So if you can't do it, or ifyou don't have time to do it, or
(33:59):
if you're bad at it, we havethis notion that I don't know
how America came to this, thatwe're all supposed to be
excellent at everything.
Like do you know how many youknow components go into running
a business and as entrepreneurs,we're supposed to know how to
do all of it ourselves and do itwell.
Kristelle (34:15):
And function.
Yeah, I'm really good atnapping because I'm they're
terrible at a lot of things andI'm terrible at napping.
Jace (34:23):
I just can't do it.
I gotta outsource my napping.
So, the truth is, some peoplejust are not good at marketing.
That's totally okay.
You don't have to be.
Bring someone on who is so.
If you can't do it, you won'tdo it.
You're not good at doing it oryou don't have time to do it.
Bring on a team that resonateswith you.
Kristelle (34:40):
When we first started the company, it was very easy
to put our initial presentationdeck together.
I would have photos of myselftalking about myself as an
agency owner, my experience inmarketing, and then the second
slide would be who's the targetaudience for CR's social digital
?
And it was this diamond splitin half, it was our diamond
(35:00):
split in half, and it would bethose who understand it but
don't have time to do it, orthose who don't understand
digital marketing at all.
And that's how we had actuallystarted the organization and
people got it right away.
They're like oh yeah, no, wedon't have time to do it and I
actually it's funny just to kindof defend some of the decision
making or the nose that I'vegiven.
(35:20):
They're actually havingcompanies that have came to us
and said I'd like to work withyou guys from the gate, and I
said I don't think that's a goodidea.
I said why?
And I said I don't actuallythink that you're ready.
They don't have a fleshed outbusiness plan.
They don't have a financialmodel, I said no.
Well, I'll never forget one ofmy favorite sales calls.
(35:42):
It was a person that neverhired us and it was crazy, right
, like why would that be a greatsales call?
But one of my favorite salescalls was the fact that this
gentleman had found us throughsearch engine optimization Like
that worked which we offer as aservice.
Jace (35:58):
by the way, we're far more than a marketing firm.
This episode brought to you byCRZ.
Kristelle (36:04):
Shameless plug.
Yeah, this guy had found usthrough search engine
optimization and he said youknow, I just need some advice.
I'm about to buy a business, apiece of a franchise, and I just
want to know how much it wouldtake, like, what should I be
doing for marketing right away?
And I said save your money?
He said, oh, why, really?
And I said well, first off, youknow, this particular franchise
might actually have somemarketing tools and resources as
(36:26):
a part of their vendor fee, sowhy pay for double right Totes?
And then, on top of that, Isaid also, you know, you're
going to be having to spend alot of time on infrastructure If
we get you the business andthis has happened, yes, if we
get you the business right awaybut you're not ready for it
operationally or infrastructurewise, you're actually going to
(36:46):
hurt your reputation.
Good point, and yes, it hasactually happened where we've
worked with a new business andthey said you know what?
The marketing was really great,but it didn't live up to the
marketing expectations.
It's happened to us.
Sure, yeah, and it's like wetry to help our client, you know
, get to the point where theyneed to be.
We try to help the individuallearn.
(37:06):
Like you know, if we're goingto go full court, press, make
sure the basketball hoop isready, right, seriously, yeah, I
know I love that.
Jace (37:13):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a perfect analogy.
Kristelle (37:16):
And not only that, but also be ready to play the
game.
So we run into that from timeto time that you know a client
is new or they've gotten theirfeet wet.
You know, a sweet spot for usis when a client has been open
now from six months all the wayup to 18 months.
That's a really great sweetspot for us.
Or they're a long timeorganization.
That's just like we're done.
We have new management, we justneed a new way of thinking
(37:38):
about marketing.
Can you guys do this for us?
Great fit, yeah, so you know,yes.
Like when I say that thecompany is ready for us, we also
say that the individual, thebusiness owner, is ready for us,
because the business owneralways knows we got to put them
at the forefront.
Or we got to make sure thatthey're a voice in the
(37:59):
conversation of their brand.
I think of the people in a kindof a good way to kind of wrap
up and summarize like why ismarketing important for an
individual?
I think about the people that Ilook up to in terms of what
success milestone do they dothat?
I want to be up.
Even Longoria is a perfectexample.
Jessica Alba is another perfectexample and the team might be
(38:23):
super tired of me using thisanalogy Richard Branson and
Virgin.
I might not be an Englishplayboy or own an island in the
middle of nowhere.
Jace (38:34):
I was going to ask how close we are to that island
money.
Could we even have a jet?
We've got.
Kristelle (38:41):
No, I'm going to go build one myself, I guess just
the way that Richard did.
Wait, think about it, though.
Richard said as a little boy Iknew that I wanted.
When I looked up at the starsas a kid he said this while he
was in the Virgin Galactic Unityflight said I always knew I
wanted to get to space.
I knew that I wanted to bringothers to travel to the world's
(39:06):
wildest adventures and that'swhy I created Virgin Galactic.
I want to be just like him.
I want people to dream justlike I did, and I want to put
myself out there.
He, homeboy, did not have toget into that damn spacecraft,
but he marketed himself bygetting in the spacecraft, going
through the space, training andgetting up in the air Brilliant
way to market yourself.
(39:27):
I mean, I'm not tellingeverybody to go build your own
spaceship, but that would bereally fucking cool.
I was like I'm going to needsome time off.
Jace (39:34):
I wish we had enough time to go over things to look for
and questions to ask whenbringing on a marketing team or
professional.
But how about we get a blogpost together and have that
guidance for people?
So if they are in a positionwhere it is time to outsource
their marketing, or even they'rejust needing help with a
(39:55):
marketing strategy, they havethose resources.
Kristelle (39:58):
I'll say that really quickly In like 30 seconds.
The easiest way for you to findthe right agency or the right
team to help you build yourbrand as a marketer is the one
that understands your cultureand is a good culture fit for
you.
I said that on the sales callthat we had recently.
Right, it's the best way.
We've lost a lot of businessthat way by me being authentic
and saying like you have to findthe right culture fit, yeah,
(40:19):
yeah.
And so I think that's thenumber one way.
Like if somebody matches yourtone, like if you're trying to
be fast, they got to be fast tooand you got to be willing to
pay for fast too.
If they want to be methodicaland they want to be specific,
and that's the type of tone thatyou are and that's the culture
that you live in.
That's the type of agency thatyou need to find.
(40:40):
Not everybody realizes that inthe beginning, and I think
that's why agencies fail a lottoo, so that they try to meet
the expectation of the client,but the client and the agency
need to meet each other'sexpectations.
Jace (40:53):
That's that bridge right.
Are we a good fit for what youneed?
And then that marketing shouldexplain that, so only the right
people are coming in.
We also have a blog post outthis month Come to think about
it on marketing metamorphosisthe different transformations
that have happened in marketingover the last 10 years.
You can check that out atCRSAcom.
Kristelle (41:12):
Yep, we had a really great episode for today, but
that's definitely going to beour last couple of words.
If you should enjoy today'sepisode, don't forget to follow
us on your favorite socialnetwork, subscribe and say hello
to our two moms that listen tothe show.
We are looking forward to nextweek's episode we're going to be
talking about motivation.
Jace (41:34):
Oh yeah, I don't know what to mean to sing that, but it
felt right.
I almost said metamorphosis.
Metamorphosis, that could alsobe true.
Kristelle (41:40):
But going beyond motivation, yeah, how to stay
motivated, or we can get agrasshopper metamorphosizing OK.
Jace (41:48):
Thanks for joining us.
I was like who on our team doesthat, justin?
Is that you?
Do you get?
Kristelle (41:53):
the grasshopper?
We're probably Ed.
Ed, we're going to need agrasshopper, it's probably Ed.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll see you on our nextepisode.
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