October 5, 2023 • 41 mins
Have you ever imagined grief as an unexpected side effect of success? In this episode of Stories, Success & Stuff, Kristelle Siarza Moon and Jace Downey navigate this seldom-discussed terrain, linking triumph and sorrow in a lively conversation.
Uncover the transformative nature of grief as we explore how it can unexpectedly drive us towards success as well as join us along the journey. Don't miss out on this powerful catalyst for personal growth. Tune in to this enlightening discussion to better navigate the surprising intersection of grief and success!
A Siarza Production
Hosted by Kristelle Siarza Moon & Jace Downey
Executive Producer: Kristelle Siarza Moon
Producer: Jace Downey
Video/Editing: Justin Otsuka
Watch episodes at siarza.com/siarza-podcast
Follow us on FB, IG, TT, YT and TW @siarzatheagency
Follow Kristelle @kristellesiarza
www.misskristelle.com
Follow Jace @jacedowneyofficial
www.jacedowney.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jace (00:00):
grief is definitely a side effect of success that no one
told me about and I didn't seeit coming.
Kristelle (00:09):
If you could put up with me, I'm the ringer.
If you could put up with me,you weren't anywhere in the
fucking world?
Jace (00:14):
No, that's not accurate?
Kristelle (00:17):
Yeah, I think so, you're so easy to work with.
Oh, you're really kind, but Idon't think I am you are.
Jace (00:23):
There's some things, there's some quirks to work with
as well.
That's always true for everyone.
You use the political correctword I can tell you I mean, come
on, working with anybody isgoing to bring stuff with it.
We're humans.
We forget that.
I think in business often thatthe human part comes with us and
that's an old school mentality,that when you walk in the
(00:44):
office doors you are left behindand it's like OK, cool, let me
know how that works out for you.
So as far as quirks go, yoursare very easy to net.
They're not unpleasant.
I've worked, especially when Iwas in production, with some
producers and stuff that werejust I was like no, never doing
(01:05):
that again.
Kristelle (01:05):
We're going to get to story success and stuff in a
minute.
But now here's a genuinequestion Did you ever have one
of the talent people or peopleand talent or interviewees that
did the brown Eminem thing?
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Nope, so Mick Jagger, oh, yeah,yeah yeah, he requested for only
(01:27):
brown Eminems backstage,because he did it and
everybody's like well, that's ademand from talent to do brown
Eminems.
He had a point, thoughEverybody thought it was a quirk
.
The point, though, was that hewanted to make sure people read
the contract and people wouldpay attention to detail.
(01:47):
Oh yeah, so if you saw thebrown Eminems, he's like they're
on it.
Yeah, did you ever have anybodylike that?
Jace (01:53):
No, but also the vast majority of my career was in
documentary film and production.
Kristelle (02:01):
This is how Eka was in documentary film.
Jace (02:04):
Not in front of the camera .
No, there are.
There.
Definitely can be, but thereweren't things where we were
prepping for talent in that kindof way.
The only star he is Like Iworked on Leonard Malton's show
and he is like so Recipe's rightwhat?
Is he dead?
No, he's not dead.
Fact check this.
(02:25):
I hope yeah.
Oh yeah.
Well, ok, if that guy OK, no,I'm just kidding, no Leonard
Malton was freaking awesome,very cool, very easy to work
with.
He would come in.
This was in Albuquerque.
He would come in every coupleweeks and maybe a month, I don't
remember, and we'd film all theshows for the next thing.
He was awesome.
Yeah, he was really nice.
Kristelle (02:44):
Well, mistaken grief or mistaken death is a great way
to transition To today'sepisode.
Today's episode of stories,success and stuff Grow up a
story for you on mistaken death.
It's a great thing.
So I'm here, crystal, I'm yourhost, with Jace co-host, so we
(03:07):
are actually.
So we're not explaining deathnecessarily, as the topic for
today.
Today's topic is actually aboutgrief, and grief comes very
organically, sometimes verysudden, sometimes it's
anticipated, et cetera, and sowe wanted to talk today about
(03:27):
grief and its impact, itsinfluence, its natural
partnership with success Not aphrase that we would hear, and
this is a topic that we havebeen wanting to talk about,
because grief actually fueled alot of the things that I've
(03:50):
created in my professionallifetime.
Grief happens when you leastexpect it, right?
Yeah, yes, yes, to a certaindegree.
Ok, so people have seen myawful schedule, my awful
calendar schedule, and whenpeople have looked at my awful
(04:13):
calendar schedule, they wonderwhat the heck is filling it up.
And board work is actually kindof filling it up, and not by
kind of.
I would say about 40% to 50% ofmy job is actually volunteering
my time for boards, leadership,et cetera.
So I wanted to start off with astory of how one of my favorite
(04:34):
boards to actually be on is acemetery.
So this board right.
Jace (04:42):
Ok, so tell me the giggle no because I'm thinking of a
time where I was driving bymyself and I made a wrong turn
and I was trying to get back towhere I was.
And then I made another turnand I ended up at the gates of a
cemetery, to which I say outloud now that's a dead end.
And then I'm looking, I'm likenobody's in the car, jayce, like
(05:03):
what are you doing?
And I'm like why isn't anyonehere for this super amazing joke
that I just told to myself?
And then I'm laughing in my caralone.
Oh my gosh, because I'm aninsane person.
Kristelle (05:12):
No, that's a really good pun.
Jace (05:14):
No, no, no.
So he said cemetery.
I'm like oh god.
Kristelle (05:17):
Yes, one of my favorite mentors was actually
the I won't say the corporation,but it was the CEO of a
corporation that dealt withdeath and he goes Crystal.
It is one of the most awkwardquestions to be in the industry
of death and funerals and I saidwhy.
(05:39):
I mean it is what it is, it'ssomething that it's an industry
that will never go away.
He goes Crystal.
When you ask aboutprofitability, you're just
waiting for somebody to die,like that's awful.
And so at the same time, it'slike the dead end joke, like
that's like a funeral director'sfavorite joke.
Jace (05:57):
Yeah, I'm going to say they raised the price of coffins
and things by like what?
600%.
So sorry, funeral industry,don't give me that you feel bad
Like.
Maybe don't capitalize onpeople dying, just be in service
to your happiness, and I'm notsaying your friend did that, but
that's a great.
It's a weird industry, for sure.
Kristelle (06:15):
So talking about the industry, so one of the things I
found very fascinating to be onthis board was how I decided to
actually be on the board,because in my opinion, if you
join a board, it's a goodexample of your work ethic and
your leadership, which is a goodbusiness development tool.
That's why you join the boards.
And so when I joined this board, it was really fascinating
because the individual came tothe office.
(06:39):
I'm like, ok, this is a veryhigh level CEO.
He obviously wants somethingfrom me and it's probably
business development, or he'sasking me to serve on something
that I don't know about.
So he says, crystal, I'd likefor you to be on this board.
And I said cool, what is it?
He goes it's for a cemetery.
I'm like what?
What in the cemeteries of 501C3?
(06:59):
Something like it's a specialdesignation.
Anyways, I love this boardbecause the decision, when I
made the decision, I said canyou give me a couple days,
couple weeks?
I'm going to San Francisco.
I'm actually going on like aquick family vacation.
I'm gonna spend some time withmy mom and my at the time, my
fiance and my son, and we'rejust gonna go explore San
(07:22):
Francisco.
Well, we get there and spendtime with family when we get
there.
If you've never heard of a placecalled Colma California, google
it, like right now.
It actually was a Jeopardyquestion.
I know, not me.
Okay, it's not a Jeopardyquestion.
And Colma was the number oneplace in the world for there are
(07:43):
more dead people than there arepeople alive in their
population numbers.
Okay, I visited ColmaCalifornia and I said, huh, okay
, like who visits ColmaCalifornia?
I was visiting my godfather.
Is he part?
Jace (07:57):
of the living or the dead.
Kristelle (07:58):
He's living part of the dead right.
Okay, he's in a beautiful hillunder a beautiful tree and he is
in great company with otherfamily members in that same
cemetery.
So I go there and I'm going tomyself.
Oh, that's why they need aboard for the cemetery.
Huh, the oh, was I sat there.
(08:20):
The cemeteries look identicalfrom when I was a kid.
Hmm and then I went to LakeTahoe in that same trip.
Lake Tahoe, california,beautiful area.
My grandmother's there.
The cemetery looks identicalfrom when I was a kid from and I
have a very iconic photo of meas a six-month-old in front of
(08:41):
my grandmother's grave.
That, to me, made me say yes toa board, because you don't
serve a board for the benefit ofthe financial aspect.
You think about the familiesthat want to visit that location
For years to come.
Hmm.
And that's what I think is sospecial and so fascinating about
(09:04):
grief is that a Cemetery is avessel to remember somebody, or
grief, I'm sorry.
A cemetery is a place toremember somebody, as you
remember, the vessel of theirbody and their being, but
grieving a cemetery is a placeto grieve, but a cemetery is
(09:24):
also a place for a celebrationof life, and so I think the
topic of grief is so interestingbecause it actually plays a
part in my volunteering life,which is the sense of memorial
board.
Long story about Colmica,california, and now you know the
answer to a jeopardy question.
Jace (09:40):
I.
If I'm ever on it, I will beready yeah so?
Kristelle (09:45):
And your aspect?
How has grief played a part inyour successes as a professional
?
Jace (09:50):
I you mentioned.
Sometimes it's anticipated.
You can anticipate grief andsometimes it comes up as a
surprise.
And the biggest surprise for meWas that there's actually grief
involved in succeeding, and Iexperienced that earlier this
year, in part with this podcastand my new role.
Things were like actuallyfalling into place and I had one
(10:11):
of these moments of reflectionwhere it was like, oh, wow,
those things I set out to dohave or are directly coming into
fruition, which is very cool,right, we had our celebrations
episode and that's like, oh,it's time to celebrate.
I've been working, I set goalsand I worked with them and I did
my plan and blah, blah, blahand like now here we are and
it's actually happening.
(10:33):
And I had so much sadness Comewith it.
I was like what is going onhere?
I should be over the moon Now.
Every time I see it or thinkabout it, I'm gonna be like
that's you the moons.
But I had so much sadness.
(10:53):
So I checked in with myself andI'm like what's going on here?
Why am I experiencing so muchdiscomfort With the success?
And what I realized is thatsucceeding in an area Means
leaving behind another one.
Oh, yes, there is death thatcomes with success and, yes, it
was a life I had been working tomove away from.
(11:13):
But it was the life I had known.
It was the state of existence Ihad known, it was the mindset I
had known, the belief systems Ihad known, and now, in order to
actually move into Thrivinginto success, I was gonna have
to leave them all behind.
And you'd think Fantastic, likethat's been the point, but it
(11:36):
was what I was familiar with.
It was like an old friend thatwas dying and I experienced so
much Like physical discomfort inmy body, around it, sadness,
confusion, anger, weirdness withmyself, because I'm like why?
You know it's like, why are wesad?
Yeah, like what's going on hereand I realized that anytime we
(11:57):
have a change, even if it's areally cool one, there's a
grieving period that gun goalong with it.
And I did not see that coming,which maybe sounds a little
silly because I've gone througha lot of changes, but I didn't
think moving into thriving wasgonna bring grief with it, but
it has.
Kristelle (12:14):
I Didn't expect this episode to be poetic and that
I'm serious.
I'm not.
This is not a pun, this ain't ajoke.
That was Poetic because that'sreally good advice for somebody
that decides to leave a companyand says I loved it here and I'm
(12:36):
.
I remember I cried when I I cryevery job that I left, when I
was younger Because I loved itthere or I was getting fired.
So that's why I also cried.
Let's break that down.
Frot fired is a good episode totalk about anyways.
Oh, that's a good right.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Jace (12:56):
I've never been fired.
Oh, I've been laid off, though.
I'll tell you all about it.
Kristelle (13:00):
Okay, so I I think that it's really fascinating to
talk about grief in the aspect,in that aspect, because, think
about it right, there are peoplethat don't want change or that
don't deal well with change, soit's.
And then there are people thatdo well with change, but they
don't understand why they're sohesitant to change.
What, if it is actually griefthat's talking to them?
Jace (13:23):
and it does, and we talked a little bit about this in the
brain episode.
When we are Changing, a lotinside of us goes no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, don't do that.
And it doesn't say thatdirectly, but it comes up
through stories and these thingsthat were like well, think
about this or what about that,or you know it, should you
really be doing that?
And you can come up ascriticism, internal critic.
Right, that judgment.
(13:43):
It'll come out that way andthese are all really loving
attempts to keep us safe.
I think that our brains andbodies are like well, let's,
let's hold on a minute andthey're not needed.
So if we did have theseconversations going on, like,
hey, as you move into success,you might also experience
sadness, confusion, anger,disbelief, like all, and it's
(14:04):
part of the process.
I think a lot of people wouldwould move into success.
Kristelle (14:09):
You're saying that people, to be successful, they
have to understand the sideeffects.
Yes, like a person side effectsof success.
Jace (14:15):
Why didn't we name this podcast?
So fucking good.
There are so many side effectsto success, and grief is one of
them.
We are trademarking this.
You are all part of it.
That's fucking brilliant.
Yes, absolutely, grief isdefinitely a side effect of
success that no one told meabout and I didn't see it coming
.
Kristelle (14:32):
Have you ever used grief as a way to motivate
yourself?
You you talk about on thepodcast a lot that you you've
been really good aboutHarnessing center, harnessing
self, putting yourself in a waywhere you can work on yourself
like constantly a self-improverbut have you ever used your
(14:55):
grief as a way to improveyourself as a professional?
You want me I'll give you time.
Yeah, I'm like I, because thatactually defined a lot of my
yeah.
So in 2019, I lost my mentorand she wanted to create several
(15:16):
items like the.
She wanted to create theAsian-American cultural centers
by way of the Asian-AmericanAssociation.
She wanted to create anonprofit and she did, which is
in Mexico Asian Family Center.
And I remember we were at theAlbuquerque Community Foundation
(15:37):
with her widow, ted jojolo,which you met At my wedding
shower, and it was great becauseTed said to me once after we
were at the Community Foundationactually I remember it like it
was yesterday.
We went to the CommunityFoundation, we created a fund.
It was where her, you know, ina lua flowers make a donation
here.
So, her fund was created and wehad to do this through the
(15:59):
Community Foundation.
The Community Foundation tookthe money and helped us
understand what exactly is gonnahappen.
It became a donor advised fundand it's it's it's advised by
Ted.
So we talked to Ted about itand then, you know, I remember
going to the coffee shop I waslike Ted, I can't function.
Yeah.
I can't function.
It's.
It was so hard to lose her andhe goes crystal.
(16:20):
I lost my son, manoa, at 18 andI learned at a very, at a very
critical moment in my life totake, take my pain and turn it
into action.
So his losses of both his Wifeand his son, manoa, has made me
(16:42):
realize Take that pain and turnit into action.
Hmm, so I did.
I took that pain and created theNew Mexico the Asian business
collaborative, not specificallyto New Mexico, and a lot of
people asked me, well, why didyou do it?
Or how did you do it?
I said, yeah, the pandemic waspart of it.
Right, the pandemic was therewas no Asian resources
(17:03):
specifically for the Asiancommunity and then a multitude
of other Issues had happened tothe Asian community.
But it was.
It was that moment of I said,in fact, I had to trace back.
How did Delhi start the NewMexico Asian Family Center?
Oh yeah, I had to talk to hermile markers of her timeline and
(17:23):
the mile markers were thepeople that helped her get her
501c3 Her first executivedirector, her development
directors, her first boardmembers.
I was like, how did you do it?
How did she do it?
And that's how I created ABCnice.
She gave me the lesson plan,but it was my grief.
Yeah, that was really talking.
There was unfortunatecasualties and friendships.
(17:43):
Sure, because whenever I seethem I get angry and I think
about her and what she thoughtof those individuals, hmm, and
so the grief still talksnegatively.
I'm not gonna pretend like I'mfine, because a grief like oh,
there's a lot of professionaland personal relationships that
I just I still push aside, orI've cut those ties and let it
(18:04):
go, because I Think about herand I think about her legacy and
I think about how those peopledon't Don't partner with her
legacy you know, huh.
Jace (18:14):
Anger is definitely a part of grief.
That's one of the stages rightand that I have had more as a
motivator Along my path reallyyeah, I think, especially now,
like I went from Having so muchforce in my life and in myself
of like powering through andlike just suck it up and deal
(18:34):
with it.
I remember true story I this isback when I did production and
I was super sick.
I had food poisoning orsomething and I had stepped on a
nail or I don't know what.
But I Was talking to the clientat I was having to do a live
broadcast.
You just got to be there.
You know how it is like there'sno, there was no backup.
(18:56):
I traveled to this location todo it.
Anyway, my shoe was filling upwith blood From where I had
stepped on this nail and I juststood there and talked to the
client as if I didn't have foodpoisoning, as if I wasn't
bleeding in the moment and justgot it done right, and sometimes
you have to.
But I remember thinking like, oh, this like makes me really
(19:17):
strong or whatever that myability to power through.
And now I think like, no,that's a really fucking weird
thing, jase, you could have beenlike you know what, give me two
minutes and I'll be right back.
But I had such a sense of force, yeah, being needed.
And so now, when I startexperiencing things, I take a
much gentler Approach.
So if I'm in a space ofgrieving, I don't have that as a
(19:38):
as a motivator, and I'mprobably more likely to go
Within and start reaching outlike what resources do I need?
What support am I needing rightnow?
But anger, anger has definitelybeen a huge motivator.
Rumi says you know, let angerbe a rung on your ladder, like
don't live there, like let itlift you up, let it move you
(19:59):
into what?
Kristelle (20:00):
oh yeah yeah anger.
for sure, the sadness part ofgrief I I can't think of an
example where I have Use that tomotivate there was an
individual that was a mentor tothe company and if you haven't
met her, she's incredible andthat's Debbie Johnson.
(20:20):
Debbie Johnson came and spoketo us about her life as an
Advertising executive in the 70swith her husband, rick Johnson,
and he passed away.
That's what it was and Iremember specifically.
The thought came back in myhead of why I was thinking of
her.
I was sitting down talking itto Ed.
(20:41):
Who else Part?
finance manager Ed yeah, parttherapist and I was like Ed.
I know that stress kills youbecause one of my other mentors,
debbie Johnson, said that andshe was right, because her
husband and then the directorhad passed away over the last
like 10, 20 years.
They passed away from likemedical issues and she goes
(21:04):
crystal.
Stress will kill you.
And, of course, if, for those ofyou that didn't know, like I
recently got really sick and Ithought that you know, I I
didn't tell a lot of folks aboutthe fact that I got sick and I
literally thought that exactthought I said Hmm, stress will
kill you.
And why I brought that up is Idon't want my team or I don't
(21:29):
want my family to beanticipatory grieving for me.
I want them to enjoy me in mystate of current self, where I'm
happy, I'm excited, I'mmotivated, which is our next
episode, and I want them toremember me by that.
(21:49):
But I know that the grievingprocess is just going to be, as
another mentor had said, onceyou poke a hole in the community
about the conversation of griefor in my mind, and when you
poke a hole of grief, it comespouring out.
Jace (22:12):
So I anticipatory grief makes me think of.
So I've had been doing a fairamount of that earlier this year
with Charlie, just watching himage in the different stages of
life and knowing like one way oranother we're approaching that
time and it was rendering me notfunctional.
(22:33):
So remind our listeners for whoCharlie is.
Charlie is my sweet little beardog that I have had for.
Kristelle (22:41):
Little.
He's not like a.
Jace (22:42):
Chihuahua.
He's a little bear though.
You ever seen a bear that wouldlike 600 pounds.
He's a big dog but he's alittle bear, that's why he's
Charlie little bear.
And just watching all that andknowing, like my family jokes,
he's my longest standing malerelationship, but that's also
entirely accurate and we've beentogether for over 13 years.
(23:05):
So I was really like justcrying out of nowhere and really
struggling with it and Ithought, nope, I am not the
first person to go through this.
There are definitely resourcesfor anticipatory grieving and
bereavement.
Looked him up sure did, and I'mquick, like I refuse to do
things the long way anymore.
I did my whole first amount youknow part of life, reinventing
(23:28):
the wheel and it's gotta be myway and very ego focused.
And now I'm like, nope,somebody has made a business out
of this.
If there's a problem, someonehas turned it into their
business to solve it, I'm gonnafind that person.
And I did.
And so I went and I actuallytracked down a pet bereavement
counselor to do anticipatorygrieving together and it was so
helpful because in that shehelped me develop an end of life
(23:53):
plan for him and to justalready make the decisions
before they were there, so thatI'm not having to make them when
I'm in an emotional state and Ialready am ready to rock when
that time does come and I candeal with the emotions and deal
with whatever's coming up.
For me, which is amazing and itmakes me think, you know, if
we're looking at grieving aspart of success and it is if we
(24:16):
know that beforehand we can setourselves up for it with
whatever support we need, withwhatever resources we need and a
proactive plan to ensure thatthat discomfort that comes with
moving into succeeding, we havea plan in place for it.
So what are the things that arehelpful to you either, that's,
people on your squad, resourcesthat you keep in your back
(24:39):
pocket or action plan Before wetransition.
Kristelle (24:42):
Look, we all love Charlie.
And you have to remember thatyou have a community of support
around you, but we are enjoyinghim now.
Jace (24:52):
Absolutely, and that was the point that having that plan
Don't transition to the nextpoint.
Kristelle (24:57):
my friend hold on.
Jace (24:57):
But having that plan in place.
I haven't cried since oh wow,now I can enjoy him.
Because now I'm not like whatam I gonna do?
And who do you call to do withthe body?
Like these things that you knowwe aren't nice to think about,
but it's like you know that youhave to think about it Well and
now I don't have to because Ialready have a plan in place.
So now I get to enjoy him, now Iget to be present because I've
(25:19):
been proactive, which was a giftI gave to myself and one I hope
we'll give to our listeners aspart of this episode.
I'm like what can?
Kristelle (25:27):
they do Death planning, family planning death
plan.
Jace (25:29):
Well, I don't mean death, I mean with success.
Oh, oh, yeah.
So if you know that grieving isgonna be part of success and it
is what do you do?
Kristelle (25:36):
Now?
We can pitch it to you.
What do I do in terms?
Jace (25:41):
of Like how would you prepare if you were going to a
next stage of success and youthought, okay, I'm gonna
definitely have some grief comeup about leaving this chapter
and moving to the next one.
Yeah, what tools are youbusting out?
Kristelle (25:52):
I'm honoring people and honoring the the position
itself.
Jace (26:03):
So that was a.
Kristelle (26:05):
I think to me that's a key takeaway.
So I went through griefcounseling after I lost Auntie
Deli, auntie Melly, which was afamily member on the Cubero side
, and then my godfather, who I'mvisiting the family in San
Francisco and which you saw atthe wedding, like that table,
(26:26):
loved that, loved ones, even thecat, even my cat Boots, was in
there because I wanted to honorhim.
He was my male in my life thatsurvived.
All the boyfriends Like I getthat the pet plays a problem.
So honoring those people, Ithink is a tool to success
because they remind you ofseveral things I talked to.
(26:51):
I said the word mile markerearlier.
In your journey they hadmemories with you and in the
journey there's always milesthat you travel and I think
those people, or honoring thosepeople, are important for
remembering where you came from,but then remember where you're
going, because you obviously hadto move in order for you to get
(27:14):
there.
So you know, when I hear peoplethinking their boss.
So, for example, when somebodyleaves the company and grows
into a position, I think that alot of companies, to kind of
shift it a little bit, when alot of companies have somebody
that's self-promoted within,that's always really exciting,
right?
You're like, oh my god, even usat CRs, or we're looking for an
(27:38):
executive assistant, but twoout of the four that we've hired
in the past have actuallybecome people here at the office
, right?
They started as people here atthe office just to be clear,
they started as executives andthen now they've grown onto the
leadership team.
That's right.
Thank you for helping meorganize that thought.
And when I say that is becausewhen they I'm a real boy.
(28:01):
I'm a real boy now.
I was once an admin.
Yeah, yeah, I'm a real human.
So thank you for that reminder.
Yep got it when thoseindividuals moved on.
When those individuals moved on, it was great to see how they
(28:21):
respected the position that theyleft by not going and just
giving the new admins fucking adifficult time.
Right Example Marissa officemanager, which was the admin
right and then moved into anaccount executive role.
She didn't tell Amy Amy, you'refucking doing it wrong.
(28:44):
You better do it the way thatCrystal wants to, because you're
doing it wrong.
She didn't dishonor Amy, shedidn't dishonor me.
Amy didn't do the same thingwith our team members down the
road.
She would tell me when she wasfrustrated about like training
somebody if it didn't stick, butthat's not dishonoring them.
She was just saying like looklike I honor the position that I
(29:06):
once held because I'm properlytraining it to somebody that I
know that's going to be evenmore successful than I am in
this particular spot.
Like that to me is honoring theposition.
So when you see people move upin companies and then they treat
people like peons from theprevious position that they have
or they might not treat themwith empathy right and say, oh,
(29:26):
I know like that's a reallytough spot because when I had
that happen to me.
I had to do this and it was thewrong move.
That wasn't honoring theposition or that wasn't honoring
the people.
So I think that type ofcelebratory element or that type
of tool in grief and success Ithink is really important.
Jace (29:46):
I love that I'm gonna throw in before we move on from
honoring of others, honoring thepast self as well, like, yes,
people help us get on our pathto success.
We meet all kinds of differentpeople, but a past version of me
also put in all the work.
I didn't do shit today.
I woke up, I took the dogs ontheir walk, I came in.
I haven't.
I've accomplished nothing todayof anything.
(30:07):
That's impressive, right, butthe past versions of you have a
pun I did.
I brought a pun with me to Igotta.
This is not meant to be rudefor our talk around grief today,
but someone, a friend, whowatches the podcast and knows I
love mugs and knows I love puns.
Got me a spooky season pun withskeleton.
Let's get the party star dead,which happens to be appropriate
(30:30):
for our grief talk.
But yeah, I didn't you know.
So, to honor the past versionsof self and have that reverence
and gratitude for everythingthat the yesterday me done is
part of that for me as well.
Kristelle (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, most definitely I am.
The other thing I was gonnamove into is under.
The takeaway when it comes togrief is where am I
understanding where you are inthe space of grief, because
sometimes you're functional andsometimes you're not.
And I say this because I sawthis beautiful meme.
(31:05):
Memes are beautiful, it can be,yeah, and so are you, and so is
everybody else listening, right?
So so there's this beautifulmeme about grief, and it was a
box.
Imagine a box and imagine areally, really big ball and the
ball hits all four walls, okay,and when the ball hits the wall,
(31:26):
when it, when the ball hitsthese walls of yourself, that's
your grief box, right?
So whatever it hits, it's kindof like.
This is a riddle.
Jace (31:35):
Yeah, yeah, no, no.
Kristelle (31:35):
Okay.
So, like you know, operation,the game operation whenever you
use your tweezers and you picksomething up and then you touch
it, all of a sudden it buzzes.
Yes, it's like that same effectfor the ball.
Whenever it touches a wall.
You're like, oh no, so ofcourse, when the grief just
happened, that ball is so full.
It just hits you.
But in grief, what I've learnedis that sometimes, as like the
(31:59):
meme had said, sometimes theball just gets smaller but the
ball starts to bounce.
As the ball bounces, it bouncesmore frequently when it's still
really big because of the spacethat it has.
So when it starts to touch likethree out of the four walls,
you're like, hey, it's stillreally heavy.
Yeah, and then over time thismeme and this I think it was
even like a social media storythe ball gets small.
(32:20):
The ball doesn't completely gettiny, which is a lot of the
fear that people have when itcomes to grief.
They're like, well, thisperson's going to be forgotten.
No, not necessarily.
Every ball everybody's ballends up settling in a size and
it might get smaller over timeor might get bigger yeah.
It might get bigger, but in thisinstance, like the ball got
really small and the sometimespeople just don't know how to
(32:42):
communicate grief in theirsuccesses and their failures,
whatever that might be.
And so, all of a sudden, thisone person said the best way for
me to communicate my grief iswhen I tell somebody the ball
touched today, or the ball'sreally staying on one side today
, hmm, or it came out of nowhereand it was the most beautiful
(33:04):
explanation of grief, because Ican be sitting here, I Can't
focus, yeah and just just tearsthat come from yeah or I can, I
will smell something.
Mm-hmm and then all of a suddenyou're like, oh no, it's there,
yeah, I, I'm crying.
I Remember one time I was ohgod, it was so embarrassing.
(33:28):
But I wasn't embarrassed aboutit, I was like, oh yep, it's
grief.
I was sitting in the middle ofthe roundhouse in a committee
room and they were talking aboutAsian American Day in the
legislature and these and the,the Commission, which is the I'm
sorry, the committee, which ismade up of legislators and
senators they were passing thislike legislation, just more of
(33:52):
like pomp and circumstance, likeyeah, asians like in New Mexico
.
Jace (33:57):
We all go celebrate a t-shirt that just says yay.
Kristelle (34:01):
Yes, I will wear it and so.
So it was like it was literallylike a legislation about, like
celebrating Asians in New Mexico.
So I'm giggling about it nowbecause if you saw me in that
moment, you're like, is she okay?
As soon as they said I wouldlike to create this day, I would
like to honor A delamara Contra, who was the state demographer.
(34:22):
She used to walk those halls inroundhouse and so we were they.
They said we'd like to honorher by making sure that we
recognized the fact that thisday was created because of her,
or parts because of her andother people in the past.
And so All of us were like, oh,clapping.
And all of a sudden I heard hername and you just hear me I Was
(34:45):
weeping, weeping.
Now, okay, grief and success.
It was successful because wemade the day happen right Three
years after she passed away.
So of course, you have tocelebrate grief, which is great.
Why you?
How you came up with thissubject?
(35:05):
But I was like wait a minutethat we were celebrating this
Incredible yay, asians day inNew Mexico happens in February.
Right and I'm just like weepingbeyond control because she
helped us get there.
Jace (35:21):
Yeah, right, it's.
Yeah, I'm hearing likereverence, holding others, the
past, past efforts, your pastself, the milestones, all of it.
Holding reverence in that ispart of moving through that
grief into the success chapter.
Kristelle (35:38):
Well, yeah, and I mean, look at it for you too.
There took a, it took a lot ofwork, right for you to work with
that bereavement counselor, orthe death plet, the, the death
counselor right, here's abereavement counselor Breavement
counselor, like you had to putin the work for that too.
What were you gonna do?
Just sit there and be like,just do it for me, that'd be so
(35:59):
cool.
Oh yeah, maybe right, but thensomebody would like fuck that.
Like okay, think about it with,like, family life planning
right?
Jace (36:08):
No, I'm at the grieving part.
Can you just do this for me?
Yeah, oh yeah, I'm gonna beover here functioning.
Yeah, yeah, thanks, yeah, oh,yeah, yeah, no, no, not the
planning.
Kristelle (36:15):
Yeah, yeah no, no, that I was happy to do, but yeah
, but like some people are justlike so adamant of like I need
to make sure that you play EltonJohn's like candle to win at my
Funeral Charlie is insistent onElton John, not that song.
Jace (36:28):
Weirdly enough it's crocodile rock, which I don't
get at all that he wants that.
But eight bear wants what hewants.
Kristelle (36:36):
But yeah, like that's what I'm saying.
Like people like literally theysay I want what I want because
I'm dying, like I'll neverforget when my godfather passed
away and they pointed out themost expensive Funeral casket
and they're like huh, huh, huh.
That was, that was his way ofgetting back at you guys for
buying all the expensive shitthroughout your entire life.
Jace (36:55):
See, and I want someone to hold on to my phone and number
and then at the funeral.
Text like a few people out inthe audience and just see what
they do, I would.
I have a series of pranks thatI have sent my family that I'm
like please do some of these.
No, someone, am I gonna go outlike all somber?
No, you know, we gotta have adance party and there have got
(37:16):
to be some pranks in the mix.
Kristelle (37:18):
I can imagine like the ultimate punster, doing your
eulogy.
Jace (37:27):
More I actually my, my actual, like emergency slash,
death, like plan that my familyhas, my, my friends have and
whatnot has every kind ofcontent.
It is Absolutely, oh yeah, youknow, jokes and puns.
Yes, oh, all the way through, mysister called me.
She was like what is this?
I am laughing hysterically like, okay, but just, I got it also,
(37:49):
we'll take care of it.
But she was just like what thehell?
What matters to be like?
And then I'm dead like bummer,like I don't know, it's life
right, it's not that serious.
Yeah, also, I just like want tonote that there's this coffin.
So, as you've been talking thiswhole time about like Boxes and
different things, I'm like I'mjust been every time I take a
(38:09):
drink, I'm like looking at thiscoffin and that's yeah, this is
weird.
I did not plan that to this.
I was just like, oh, it'sspooky season, I'm gonna bring
my special mug.
And now I'm like, oh, this isfantastic.
Kristelle (38:19):
I haven't really been able to take anything.
Jace (38:21):
Seriously as a result of this.
Oh, I think you know the keytakeaways, as there are key
takeaways to this podcast thereand I want to throw out like
your, your team, use your peopleFor the support and, even if it
sounds silly, because somepeople like, why are you
grieving?
You're successful.
This is what you've workedtowards.
You should be happy.
How often do you hear that youshould be happy?
You've worked so hard for this.
(38:41):
Make sure you have your teamaround.
That's gonna Understand.
The letting go of one thing isdifficult and sad.
It's like when you break upwith somebody, even though it
was the right decision and youmade it.
Kristelle (38:51):
He automatically knows the squad that's gonna be
around you.
Jace (38:54):
Yeah, yeah Well yeah, it's like there's still sadness
there.
So I like that's my biggestthing, that right away.
Kristelle (38:59):
My top resources, my people, my support team around
me, yeah, yeah most definitely Iwell, and you got the
professionals, and then you gotyour squad right.
We talk about the squad a lotin the podcast.
For sure, before we even talkabout, you know, the, the, the
end of the episode right, the.
Jace (39:18):
The key takeaways that I'll admit.
Kristelle (39:20):
You know, one of the reasons why we do this podcast
is not only for people to knowwho CR is, not just me, but you,
justin, the rest of the staff.
I think that it people don'trealize that this podcast
becomes a little bit of therapyhmm, for the both of us, and
(39:42):
Unintentional therapy, I think,is a good one, or free therapy
for me for sure.
And I appreciate you say youknow, saying that About Charlie
and talking about it, because weall know it's not gonna be easy
and you've warned us and toldus about it, right, like it's
not gonna be easy, I will not befunctioning.
Yeah, you know it's a it's agreat way to just be real, right
(40:05):
, and that's what I love aboutthis podcast, and I'm always
really grateful for the topicsthat we choose.
It's not all rainbows andponies when it comes to success,
right, and this is definitelyone of those episodes where it
hurts, grief hurts, but it's animportant part of our journey to
get where we want to go.
Jace (40:23):
Hmm, I think, and it's so messy, grief is so messy, oh,
messy.
And you know what else isSuccess?
It is, success is so messy.
Yeah, so maybe that, maybethat'll be my final final word
is to allow the mess, celebratethe mess, give time for the mess
, recognize that Success ismessy and that doesn't mean
(40:46):
we're off track.
Kristelle (40:48):
Absolutely.
That's gonna do it for us forthis week's episode of story,
success and stuff.
Thank you for joining, forthere is a lot of listeners now.
Usually the joke is for ourmoms that are listening, but not
just our moms that arelistening, but for we have had
overwhelming amounts of peoplecoming to us and saying Thank
(41:09):
you for distributing out thepodcast, producing the podcast.
Thanks to you, justin, asalways.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
follow us on your favoritesocial media channels at CRs of
the agency and find out moreabout what we can do at CRs of
comm.
We're grateful for you beinghere.
I'm very excited for nextweek's topic, once the grief has
(41:30):
settled.
It's about motivation anotherfun one and so I hope that you
get to join us and subscribe tous on your favorite podcast
channel.
But otherwise, thanks so muchfor joining.
We'll see you soon.
grief is definitely a side effect of success that no one
told me about and I didn't seeit coming.
Kristelle (00:09):
If you could put up with me, I'm the ringer.
If you could put up with me,you weren't anywhere in the
fucking world?
Jace (00:14):
No, that's not accurate?
Kristelle (00:17):
Yeah, I think so, you're so easy to work with.
Oh, you're really kind, but Idon't think I am you are.
Jace (00:23):
There's some things, there's some quirks to work with
as well.
That's always true for everyone.
You use the political correctword I can tell you I mean, come
on, working with anybody isgoing to bring stuff with it.
We're humans.
We forget that.
I think in business often thatthe human part comes with us and
that's an old school mentality,that when you walk in the
(00:44):
office doors you are left behindand it's like OK, cool, let me
know how that works out for you.
So as far as quirks go, yoursare very easy to net.
They're not unpleasant.
I've worked, especially when Iwas in production, with some
producers and stuff that werejust I was like no, never doing
(01:05):
that again.
Kristelle (01:05):
We're going to get to story success and stuff in a
minute.
But now here's a genuinequestion Did you ever have one
of the talent people or peopleand talent or interviewees that
did the brown Eminem thing?
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Nope, so Mick Jagger, oh, yeah,yeah yeah, he requested for only
(01:27):
brown Eminems backstage,because he did it and
everybody's like well, that's ademand from talent to do brown
Eminems.
He had a point, thoughEverybody thought it was a quirk
.
The point, though, was that hewanted to make sure people read
the contract and people wouldpay attention to detail.
(01:47):
Oh yeah, so if you saw thebrown Eminems, he's like they're
on it.
Yeah, did you ever have anybodylike that?
Jace (01:53):
No, but also the vast majority of my career was in
documentary film and production.
Kristelle (02:01):
This is how Eka was in documentary film.
Jace (02:04):
Not in front of the camera .
No, there are.
There.
Definitely can be, but thereweren't things where we were
prepping for talent in that kindof way.
The only star he is Like Iworked on Leonard Malton's show
and he is like so Recipe's rightwhat?
Is he dead?
No, he's not dead.
Fact check this.
(02:25):
I hope yeah.
Oh yeah.
Well, ok, if that guy OK, no,I'm just kidding, no Leonard
Malton was freaking awesome,very cool, very easy to work
with.
He would come in.
This was in Albuquerque.
He would come in every coupleweeks and maybe a month, I don't
remember, and we'd film all theshows for the next thing.
He was awesome.
Yeah, he was really nice.
Kristelle (02:44):
Well, mistaken grief or mistaken death is a great way
to transition To today'sepisode.
Today's episode of stories,success and stuff Grow up a
story for you on mistaken death.
It's a great thing.
So I'm here, crystal, I'm yourhost, with Jace co-host, so we
(03:07):
are actually.
So we're not explaining deathnecessarily, as the topic for
today.
Today's topic is actually aboutgrief, and grief comes very
organically, sometimes verysudden, sometimes it's
anticipated, et cetera, and sowe wanted to talk today about
(03:27):
grief and its impact, itsinfluence, its natural
partnership with success Not aphrase that we would hear, and
this is a topic that we havebeen wanting to talk about,
because grief actually fueled alot of the things that I've
(03:50):
created in my professionallifetime.
Grief happens when you leastexpect it, right?
Yeah, yes, yes, to a certaindegree.
Ok, so people have seen myawful schedule, my awful
calendar schedule, and whenpeople have looked at my awful
(04:13):
calendar schedule, they wonderwhat the heck is filling it up.
And board work is actually kindof filling it up, and not by
kind of.
I would say about 40% to 50% ofmy job is actually volunteering
my time for boards, leadership,et cetera.
So I wanted to start off with astory of how one of my favorite
(04:34):
boards to actually be on is acemetery.
So this board right.
Jace (04:42):
Ok, so tell me the giggle no because I'm thinking of a
time where I was driving bymyself and I made a wrong turn
and I was trying to get back towhere I was.
And then I made another turnand I ended up at the gates of a
cemetery, to which I say outloud now that's a dead end.
And then I'm looking, I'm likenobody's in the car, jayce, like
(05:03):
what are you doing?
And I'm like why isn't anyonehere for this super amazing joke
that I just told to myself?
And then I'm laughing in my caralone.
Oh my gosh, because I'm aninsane person.
Kristelle (05:12):
No, that's a really good pun.
Jace (05:14):
No, no, no.
So he said cemetery.
I'm like oh god.
Kristelle (05:17):
Yes, one of my favorite mentors was actually
the I won't say the corporation,but it was the CEO of a
corporation that dealt withdeath and he goes Crystal.
It is one of the most awkwardquestions to be in the industry
of death and funerals and I saidwhy.
(05:39):
I mean it is what it is, it'ssomething that it's an industry
that will never go away.
He goes Crystal.
When you ask aboutprofitability, you're just
waiting for somebody to die,like that's awful.
And so at the same time, it'slike the dead end joke, like
that's like a funeral director'sfavorite joke.
Jace (05:57):
Yeah, I'm going to say they raised the price of coffins
and things by like what?
600%.
So sorry, funeral industry,don't give me that you feel bad
Like.
Maybe don't capitalize onpeople dying, just be in service
to your happiness, and I'm notsaying your friend did that, but
that's a great.
It's a weird industry, for sure.
Kristelle (06:15):
So talking about the industry, so one of the things I
found very fascinating to be onthis board was how I decided to
actually be on the board,because in my opinion, if you
join a board, it's a goodexample of your work ethic and
your leadership, which is a goodbusiness development tool.
That's why you join the boards.
And so when I joined this board, it was really fascinating
because the individual came tothe office.
(06:39):
I'm like, ok, this is a veryhigh level CEO.
He obviously wants somethingfrom me and it's probably
business development, or he'sasking me to serve on something
that I don't know about.
So he says, crystal, I'd likefor you to be on this board.
And I said cool, what is it?
He goes it's for a cemetery.
I'm like what?
What in the cemeteries of 501C3?
(06:59):
Something like it's a specialdesignation.
Anyways, I love this boardbecause the decision, when I
made the decision, I said canyou give me a couple days,
couple weeks?
I'm going to San Francisco.
I'm actually going on like aquick family vacation.
I'm gonna spend some time withmy mom and my at the time, my
fiance and my son, and we'rejust gonna go explore San
(07:22):
Francisco.
Well, we get there and spendtime with family when we get
there.
If you've never heard of a placecalled Colma California, google
it, like right now.
It actually was a Jeopardyquestion.
I know, not me.
Okay, it's not a Jeopardyquestion.
And Colma was the number oneplace in the world for there are
(07:43):
more dead people than there arepeople alive in their
population numbers.
Okay, I visited ColmaCalifornia and I said, huh, okay
, like who visits ColmaCalifornia?
I was visiting my godfather.
Is he part?
Jace (07:57):
of the living or the dead.
Kristelle (07:58):
He's living part of the dead right.
Okay, he's in a beautiful hillunder a beautiful tree and he is
in great company with otherfamily members in that same
cemetery.
So I go there and I'm going tomyself.
Oh, that's why they need aboard for the cemetery.
Huh, the oh, was I sat there.
(08:20):
The cemeteries look identicalfrom when I was a kid.
Hmm and then I went to LakeTahoe in that same trip.
Lake Tahoe, california,beautiful area.
My grandmother's there.
The cemetery looks identicalfrom when I was a kid from and I
have a very iconic photo of meas a six-month-old in front of
(08:41):
my grandmother's grave.
That, to me, made me say yes toa board, because you don't
serve a board for the benefit ofthe financial aspect.
You think about the familiesthat want to visit that location
For years to come.
Hmm.
And that's what I think is sospecial and so fascinating about
(09:04):
grief is that a Cemetery is avessel to remember somebody, or
grief, I'm sorry.
A cemetery is a place toremember somebody, as you
remember, the vessel of theirbody and their being, but
grieving a cemetery is a placeto grieve, but a cemetery is
(09:24):
also a place for a celebrationof life, and so I think the
topic of grief is so interestingbecause it actually plays a
part in my volunteering life,which is the sense of memorial
board.
Long story about Colmica,california, and now you know the
answer to a jeopardy question.
Jace (09:40):
I.
If I'm ever on it, I will beready yeah so?
Kristelle (09:45):
And your aspect?
How has grief played a part inyour successes as a professional
?
Jace (09:50):
I you mentioned.
Sometimes it's anticipated.
You can anticipate grief andsometimes it comes up as a
surprise.
And the biggest surprise for meWas that there's actually grief
involved in succeeding, and Iexperienced that earlier this
year, in part with this podcastand my new role.
Things were like actuallyfalling into place and I had one
(10:11):
of these moments of reflectionwhere it was like, oh, wow,
those things I set out to dohave or are directly coming into
fruition, which is very cool,right, we had our celebrations
episode and that's like, oh,it's time to celebrate.
I've been working, I set goalsand I worked with them and I did
my plan and blah, blah, blahand like now here we are and
it's actually happening.
(10:33):
And I had so much sadness Comewith it.
I was like what is going onhere?
I should be over the moon Now.
Every time I see it or thinkabout it, I'm gonna be like
that's you the moons.
But I had so much sadness.
(10:53):
So I checked in with myself andI'm like what's going on here?
Why am I experiencing so muchdiscomfort With the success?
And what I realized is thatsucceeding in an area Means
leaving behind another one.
Oh, yes, there is death thatcomes with success and, yes, it
was a life I had been working tomove away from.
(11:13):
But it was the life I had known.
It was the state of existence Ihad known, it was the mindset I
had known, the belief systems Ihad known, and now, in order to
actually move into Thrivinginto success, I was gonna have
to leave them all behind.
And you'd think Fantastic, likethat's been the point, but it
(11:36):
was what I was familiar with.
It was like an old friend thatwas dying and I experienced so
much Like physical discomfort inmy body, around it, sadness,
confusion, anger, weirdness withmyself, because I'm like why?
You know it's like, why are wesad?
Yeah, like what's going on hereand I realized that anytime we
(11:57):
have a change, even if it's areally cool one, there's a
grieving period that gun goalong with it.
And I did not see that coming,which maybe sounds a little
silly because I've gone througha lot of changes, but I didn't
think moving into thriving wasgonna bring grief with it, but
it has.
Kristelle (12:14):
I Didn't expect this episode to be poetic and that
I'm serious.
I'm not.
This is not a pun, this ain't ajoke.
That was Poetic because that'sreally good advice for somebody
that decides to leave a companyand says I loved it here and I'm
(12:36):
.
I remember I cried when I I cryevery job that I left, when I
was younger Because I loved itthere or I was getting fired.
So that's why I also cried.
Let's break that down.
Frot fired is a good episode totalk about anyways.
Oh, that's a good right.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Jace (12:56):
I've never been fired.
Oh, I've been laid off, though.
I'll tell you all about it.
Kristelle (13:00):
Okay, so I I think that it's really fascinating to
talk about grief in the aspect,in that aspect, because, think
about it right, there are peoplethat don't want change or that
don't deal well with change, soit's.
And then there are people thatdo well with change, but they
don't understand why they're sohesitant to change.
What, if it is actually griefthat's talking to them?
Jace (13:23):
and it does, and we talked a little bit about this in the
brain episode.
When we are Changing, a lotinside of us goes no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, don't do that.
And it doesn't say thatdirectly, but it comes up
through stories and these thingsthat were like well, think
about this or what about that,or you know it, should you
really be doing that?
And you can come up ascriticism, internal critic.
Right, that judgment.
(13:43):
It'll come out that way andthese are all really loving
attempts to keep us safe.
I think that our brains andbodies are like well, let's,
let's hold on a minute andthey're not needed.
So if we did have theseconversations going on, like,
hey, as you move into success,you might also experience
sadness, confusion, anger,disbelief, like all, and it's
(14:04):
part of the process.
I think a lot of people wouldwould move into success.
Kristelle (14:09):
You're saying that people, to be successful, they
have to understand the sideeffects.
Yes, like a person side effectsof success.
Jace (14:15):
Why didn't we name this podcast?
So fucking good.
There are so many side effectsto success, and grief is one of
them.
We are trademarking this.
You are all part of it.
That's fucking brilliant.
Yes, absolutely, grief isdefinitely a side effect of
success that no one told meabout and I didn't see it coming
.
Kristelle (14:32):
Have you ever used grief as a way to motivate
yourself?
You you talk about on thepodcast a lot that you you've
been really good aboutHarnessing center, harnessing
self, putting yourself in a waywhere you can work on yourself
like constantly a self-improverbut have you ever used your
(14:55):
grief as a way to improveyourself as a professional?
You want me I'll give you time.
Yeah, I'm like I, because thatactually defined a lot of my
yeah.
So in 2019, I lost my mentorand she wanted to create several
(15:16):
items like the.
She wanted to create theAsian-American cultural centers
by way of the Asian-AmericanAssociation.
She wanted to create anonprofit and she did, which is
in Mexico Asian Family Center.
And I remember we were at theAlbuquerque Community Foundation
(15:37):
with her widow, ted jojolo,which you met At my wedding
shower, and it was great becauseTed said to me once after we
were at the Community Foundationactually I remember it like it
was yesterday.
We went to the CommunityFoundation, we created a fund.
It was where her, you know, ina lua flowers make a donation
here.
So, her fund was created and wehad to do this through the
(15:59):
Community Foundation.
The Community Foundation tookthe money and helped us
understand what exactly is gonnahappen.
It became a donor advised fundand it's it's it's advised by
Ted.
So we talked to Ted about itand then, you know, I remember
going to the coffee shop I waslike Ted, I can't function.
Yeah.
I can't function.
It's.
It was so hard to lose her andhe goes crystal.
(16:20):
I lost my son, manoa, at 18 andI learned at a very, at a very
critical moment in my life totake, take my pain and turn it
into action.
So his losses of both his Wifeand his son, manoa, has made me
(16:42):
realize Take that pain and turnit into action.
Hmm, so I did.
I took that pain and created theNew Mexico the Asian business
collaborative, not specificallyto New Mexico, and a lot of
people asked me, well, why didyou do it?
Or how did you do it?
I said, yeah, the pandemic waspart of it.
Right, the pandemic was therewas no Asian resources
(17:03):
specifically for the Asiancommunity and then a multitude
of other Issues had happened tothe Asian community.
But it was.
It was that moment of I said,in fact, I had to trace back.
How did Delhi start the NewMexico Asian Family Center?
Oh yeah, I had to talk to hermile markers of her timeline and
(17:23):
the mile markers were thepeople that helped her get her
501c3 Her first executivedirector, her development
directors, her first boardmembers.
I was like, how did you do it?
How did she do it?
And that's how I created ABCnice.
She gave me the lesson plan,but it was my grief.
Yeah, that was really talking.
There was unfortunatecasualties and friendships.
(17:43):
Sure, because whenever I seethem I get angry and I think
about her and what she thoughtof those individuals, hmm, and
so the grief still talksnegatively.
I'm not gonna pretend like I'mfine, because a grief like oh,
there's a lot of professionaland personal relationships that
I just I still push aside, orI've cut those ties and let it
(18:04):
go, because I Think about herand I think about her legacy and
I think about how those peopledon't Don't partner with her
legacy you know, huh.
Jace (18:14):
Anger is definitely a part of grief.
That's one of the stages rightand that I have had more as a
motivator Along my path reallyyeah, I think, especially now,
like I went from Having so muchforce in my life and in myself
of like powering through andlike just suck it up and deal
(18:34):
with it.
I remember true story I this isback when I did production and
I was super sick.
I had food poisoning orsomething and I had stepped on a
nail or I don't know what.
But I Was talking to the clientat I was having to do a live
broadcast.
You just got to be there.
You know how it is like there'sno, there was no backup.
(18:56):
I traveled to this location todo it.
Anyway, my shoe was filling upwith blood From where I had
stepped on this nail and I juststood there and talked to the
client as if I didn't have foodpoisoning, as if I wasn't
bleeding in the moment and justgot it done right, and sometimes
you have to.
But I remember thinking like, oh, this like makes me really
(19:17):
strong or whatever that myability to power through.
And now I think like, no,that's a really fucking weird
thing, jase, you could have beenlike you know what, give me two
minutes and I'll be right back.
But I had such a sense of force, yeah, being needed.
And so now, when I startexperiencing things, I take a
much gentler Approach.
So if I'm in a space ofgrieving, I don't have that as a
(19:38):
as a motivator, and I'mprobably more likely to go
Within and start reaching outlike what resources do I need?
What support am I needing rightnow?
But anger, anger has definitelybeen a huge motivator.
Rumi says you know, let angerbe a rung on your ladder, like
don't live there, like let itlift you up, let it move you
(19:59):
into what?
Kristelle (20:00):
oh yeah yeah anger.
for sure, the sadness part ofgrief I I can't think of an
example where I have Use that tomotivate there was an
individual that was a mentor tothe company and if you haven't
met her, she's incredible andthat's Debbie Johnson.
(20:20):
Debbie Johnson came and spoketo us about her life as an
Advertising executive in the 70swith her husband, rick Johnson,
and he passed away.
That's what it was and Iremember specifically.
The thought came back in myhead of why I was thinking of
her.
I was sitting down talking itto Ed.
(20:41):
Who else Part?
finance manager Ed yeah, parttherapist and I was like Ed.
I know that stress kills youbecause one of my other mentors,
debbie Johnson, said that andshe was right, because her
husband and then the directorhad passed away over the last
like 10, 20 years.
They passed away from likemedical issues and she goes
(21:04):
crystal.
Stress will kill you.
And, of course, if, for those ofyou that didn't know, like I
recently got really sick and Ithought that you know, I I
didn't tell a lot of folks aboutthe fact that I got sick and I
literally thought that exactthought I said Hmm, stress will
kill you.
And why I brought that up is Idon't want my team or I don't
(21:29):
want my family to beanticipatory grieving for me.
I want them to enjoy me in mystate of current self, where I'm
happy, I'm excited, I'mmotivated, which is our next
episode, and I want them toremember me by that.
(21:49):
But I know that the grievingprocess is just going to be, as
another mentor had said, onceyou poke a hole in the community
about the conversation of griefor in my mind, and when you
poke a hole of grief, it comespouring out.
Jace (22:12):
So I anticipatory grief makes me think of.
So I've had been doing a fairamount of that earlier this year
with Charlie, just watching himage in the different stages of
life and knowing like one way oranother we're approaching that
time and it was rendering me notfunctional.
(22:33):
So remind our listeners for whoCharlie is.
Charlie is my sweet little beardog that I have had for.
Kristelle (22:41):
Little.
He's not like a.
Jace (22:42):
Chihuahua.
He's a little bear though.
You ever seen a bear that wouldlike 600 pounds.
He's a big dog but he's alittle bear, that's why he's
Charlie little bear.
And just watching all that andknowing, like my family jokes,
he's my longest standing malerelationship, but that's also
entirely accurate and we've beentogether for over 13 years.
(23:05):
So I was really like justcrying out of nowhere and really
struggling with it and Ithought, nope, I am not the
first person to go through this.
There are definitely resourcesfor anticipatory grieving and
bereavement.
Looked him up sure did, and I'mquick, like I refuse to do
things the long way anymore.
I did my whole first amount youknow part of life, reinventing
(23:28):
the wheel and it's gotta be myway and very ego focused.
And now I'm like, nope,somebody has made a business out
of this.
If there's a problem, someonehas turned it into their
business to solve it, I'm gonnafind that person.
And I did.
And so I went and I actuallytracked down a pet bereavement
counselor to do anticipatorygrieving together and it was so
helpful because in that shehelped me develop an end of life
(23:53):
plan for him and to justalready make the decisions
before they were there, so thatI'm not having to make them when
I'm in an emotional state and Ialready am ready to rock when
that time does come and I candeal with the emotions and deal
with whatever's coming up.
For me, which is amazing and itmakes me think, you know, if
we're looking at grieving aspart of success and it is if we
(24:16):
know that beforehand we can setourselves up for it with
whatever support we need, withwhatever resources we need and a
proactive plan to ensure thatthat discomfort that comes with
moving into succeeding, we havea plan in place for it.
So what are the things that arehelpful to you either, that's,
people on your squad, resourcesthat you keep in your back
(24:39):
pocket or action plan Before wetransition.
Kristelle (24:42):
Look, we all love Charlie.
And you have to remember thatyou have a community of support
around you, but we are enjoyinghim now.
Jace (24:52):
Absolutely, and that was the point that having that plan
Don't transition to the nextpoint.
Kristelle (24:57):
my friend hold on.
Jace (24:57):
But having that plan in place.
I haven't cried since oh wow,now I can enjoy him.
Because now I'm not like whatam I gonna do?
And who do you call to do withthe body?
Like these things that you knowwe aren't nice to think about,
but it's like you know that youhave to think about it Well and
now I don't have to because Ialready have a plan in place.
So now I get to enjoy him, now Iget to be present because I've
(25:19):
been proactive, which was a giftI gave to myself and one I hope
we'll give to our listeners aspart of this episode.
I'm like what can?
Kristelle (25:27):
they do Death planning, family planning death
plan.
Jace (25:29):
Well, I don't mean death, I mean with success.
Oh, oh, yeah.
So if you know that grieving isgonna be part of success and it
is what do you do?
Kristelle (25:36):
Now?
We can pitch it to you.
What do I do in terms?
Jace (25:41):
of Like how would you prepare if you were going to a
next stage of success and youthought, okay, I'm gonna
definitely have some grief comeup about leaving this chapter
and moving to the next one.
Yeah, what tools are youbusting out?
Kristelle (25:52):
I'm honoring people and honoring the the position
itself.
Jace (26:03):
So that was a.
Kristelle (26:05):
I think to me that's a key takeaway.
So I went through griefcounseling after I lost Auntie
Deli, auntie Melly, which was afamily member on the Cubero side
, and then my godfather, who I'mvisiting the family in San
Francisco and which you saw atthe wedding, like that table,
(26:26):
loved that, loved ones, even thecat, even my cat Boots, was in
there because I wanted to honorhim.
He was my male in my life thatsurvived.
All the boyfriends Like I getthat the pet plays a problem.
So honoring those people, Ithink is a tool to success
because they remind you ofseveral things I talked to.
(26:51):
I said the word mile markerearlier.
In your journey they hadmemories with you and in the
journey there's always milesthat you travel and I think
those people, or honoring thosepeople, are important for
remembering where you came from,but then remember where you're
going, because you obviously hadto move in order for you to get
(27:14):
there.
So you know, when I hear peoplethinking their boss.
So, for example, when somebodyleaves the company and grows
into a position, I think that alot of companies, to kind of
shift it a little bit, when alot of companies have somebody
that's self-promoted within,that's always really exciting,
right?
You're like, oh my god, even usat CRs, or we're looking for an
(27:38):
executive assistant, but twoout of the four that we've hired
in the past have actuallybecome people here at the office
, right?
They started as people here atthe office just to be clear,
they started as executives andthen now they've grown onto the
leadership team.
That's right.
Thank you for helping meorganize that thought.
And when I say that is becausewhen they I'm a real boy.
(28:01):
I'm a real boy now.
I was once an admin.
Yeah, yeah, I'm a real human.
So thank you for that reminder.
Yep got it when thoseindividuals moved on.
When those individuals moved on, it was great to see how they
(28:21):
respected the position that theyleft by not going and just
giving the new admins fucking adifficult time.
Right Example Marissa officemanager, which was the admin
right and then moved into anaccount executive role.
She didn't tell Amy Amy, you'refucking doing it wrong.
(28:44):
You better do it the way thatCrystal wants to, because you're
doing it wrong.
She didn't dishonor Amy, shedidn't dishonor me.
Amy didn't do the same thingwith our team members down the
road.
She would tell me when she wasfrustrated about like training
somebody if it didn't stick, butthat's not dishonoring them.
She was just saying like looklike I honor the position that I
(29:06):
once held because I'm properlytraining it to somebody that I
know that's going to be evenmore successful than I am in
this particular spot.
Like that to me is honoring theposition.
So when you see people move upin companies and then they treat
people like peons from theprevious position that they have
or they might not treat themwith empathy right and say, oh,
(29:26):
I know like that's a reallytough spot because when I had
that happen to me.
I had to do this and it was thewrong move.
That wasn't honoring theposition or that wasn't honoring
the people.
So I think that type ofcelebratory element or that type
of tool in grief and success Ithink is really important.
Jace (29:46):
I love that I'm gonna throw in before we move on from
honoring of others, honoring thepast self as well, like, yes,
people help us get on our pathto success.
We meet all kinds of differentpeople, but a past version of me
also put in all the work.
I didn't do shit today.
I woke up, I took the dogs ontheir walk, I came in.
I haven't.
I've accomplished nothing todayof anything.
(30:07):
That's impressive, right, butthe past versions of you have a
pun I did.
I brought a pun with me to Igotta.
This is not meant to be rudefor our talk around grief today,
but someone, a friend, whowatches the podcast and knows I
love mugs and knows I love puns.
Got me a spooky season pun withskeleton.
Let's get the party star dead,which happens to be appropriate
(30:30):
for our grief talk.
But yeah, I didn't you know.
So, to honor the past versionsof self and have that reverence
and gratitude for everythingthat the yesterday me done is
part of that for me as well.
Kristelle (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, most definitely I am.
The other thing I was gonnamove into is under.
The takeaway when it comes togrief is where am I
understanding where you are inthe space of grief, because
sometimes you're functional andsometimes you're not.
And I say this because I sawthis beautiful meme.
(31:05):
Memes are beautiful, it can be,yeah, and so are you, and so is
everybody else listening, right?
So so there's this beautifulmeme about grief, and it was a
box.
Imagine a box and imagine areally, really big ball and the
ball hits all four walls, okay,and when the ball hits the wall,
(31:26):
when it, when the ball hitsthese walls of yourself, that's
your grief box, right?
So whatever it hits, it's kindof like.
This is a riddle.
Jace (31:35):
Yeah, yeah, no, no.
Kristelle (31:35):
Okay.
So, like you know, operation,the game operation whenever you
use your tweezers and you picksomething up and then you touch
it, all of a sudden it buzzes.
Yes, it's like that same effectfor the ball.
Whenever it touches a wall.
You're like, oh no, so ofcourse, when the grief just
happened, that ball is so full.
It just hits you.
But in grief, what I've learnedis that sometimes, as like the
(31:59):
meme had said, sometimes theball just gets smaller but the
ball starts to bounce.
As the ball bounces, it bouncesmore frequently when it's still
really big because of the spacethat it has.
So when it starts to touch likethree out of the four walls,
you're like, hey, it's stillreally heavy.
Yeah, and then over time thismeme and this I think it was
even like a social media storythe ball gets small.
(32:20):
The ball doesn't completely gettiny, which is a lot of the
fear that people have when itcomes to grief.
They're like, well, thisperson's going to be forgotten.
No, not necessarily.
Every ball everybody's ballends up settling in a size and
it might get smaller over timeor might get bigger yeah.
It might get bigger, but in thisinstance, like the ball got
really small and the sometimespeople just don't know how to
(32:42):
communicate grief in theirsuccesses and their failures,
whatever that might be.
And so, all of a sudden, thisone person said the best way for
me to communicate my grief iswhen I tell somebody the ball
touched today, or the ball'sreally staying on one side today
, hmm, or it came out of nowhereand it was the most beautiful
(33:04):
explanation of grief, because Ican be sitting here, I Can't
focus, yeah and just just tearsthat come from yeah or I can, I
will smell something.
Mm-hmm and then all of a suddenyou're like, oh no, it's there,
yeah, I, I'm crying.
I Remember one time I was ohgod, it was so embarrassing.
(33:28):
But I wasn't embarrassed aboutit, I was like, oh yep, it's
grief.
I was sitting in the middle ofthe roundhouse in a committee
room and they were talking aboutAsian American Day in the
legislature and these and the,the Commission, which is the I'm
sorry, the committee, which ismade up of legislators and
senators they were passing thislike legislation, just more of
(33:52):
like pomp and circumstance, likeyeah, asians like in New Mexico
.
Jace (33:57):
We all go celebrate a t-shirt that just says yay.
Kristelle (34:01):
Yes, I will wear it and so.
So it was like it was literallylike a legislation about, like
celebrating Asians in New Mexico.
So I'm giggling about it nowbecause if you saw me in that
moment, you're like, is she okay?
As soon as they said I wouldlike to create this day, I would
like to honor A delamara Contra, who was the state demographer.
(34:22):
She used to walk those halls inroundhouse and so we were they.
They said we'd like to honorher by making sure that we
recognized the fact that thisday was created because of her,
or parts because of her andother people in the past.
And so All of us were like, oh,clapping.
And all of a sudden I heard hername and you just hear me I Was
(34:45):
weeping, weeping.
Now, okay, grief and success.
It was successful because wemade the day happen right Three
years after she passed away.
So of course, you have tocelebrate grief, which is great.
Why you?
How you came up with thissubject?
(35:05):
But I was like wait a minutethat we were celebrating this
Incredible yay, asians day inNew Mexico happens in February.
Right and I'm just like weepingbeyond control because she
helped us get there.
Jace (35:21):
Yeah, right, it's.
Yeah, I'm hearing likereverence, holding others, the
past, past efforts, your pastself, the milestones, all of it.
Holding reverence in that ispart of moving through that
grief into the success chapter.
Kristelle (35:38):
Well, yeah, and I mean, look at it for you too.
There took a, it took a lot ofwork, right for you to work with
that bereavement counselor, orthe death plet, the, the death
counselor right, here's abereavement counselor Breavement
counselor, like you had to putin the work for that too.
What were you gonna do?
Just sit there and be like,just do it for me, that'd be so
(35:59):
cool.
Oh yeah, maybe right, but thensomebody would like fuck that.
Like okay, think about it with,like, family life planning
right?
Jace (36:08):
No, I'm at the grieving part.
Can you just do this for me?
Yeah, oh yeah, I'm gonna beover here functioning.
Yeah, yeah, thanks, yeah, oh,yeah, yeah, no, no, not the
planning.
Kristelle (36:15):
Yeah, yeah no, no, that I was happy to do, but yeah
, but like some people are justlike so adamant of like I need
to make sure that you play EltonJohn's like candle to win at my
Funeral Charlie is insistent onElton John, not that song.
Jace (36:28):
Weirdly enough it's crocodile rock, which I don't
get at all that he wants that.
But eight bear wants what hewants.
Kristelle (36:36):
But yeah, like that's what I'm saying.
Like people like literally theysay I want what I want because
I'm dying, like I'll neverforget when my godfather passed
away and they pointed out themost expensive Funeral casket
and they're like huh, huh, huh.
That was, that was his way ofgetting back at you guys for
buying all the expensive shitthroughout your entire life.
Jace (36:55):
See, and I want someone to hold on to my phone and number
and then at the funeral.
Text like a few people out inthe audience and just see what
they do, I would.
I have a series of pranks thatI have sent my family that I'm
like please do some of these.
No, someone, am I gonna go outlike all somber?
No, you know, we gotta have adance party and there have got
(37:16):
to be some pranks in the mix.
Kristelle (37:18):
I can imagine like the ultimate punster, doing your
eulogy.
Jace (37:27):
More I actually my, my actual, like emergency slash,
death, like plan that my familyhas, my, my friends have and
whatnot has every kind ofcontent.
It is Absolutely, oh yeah, youknow, jokes and puns.
Yes, oh, all the way through, mysister called me.
She was like what is this?
I am laughing hysterically like, okay, but just, I got it also,
(37:49):
we'll take care of it.
But she was just like what thehell?
What matters to be like?
And then I'm dead like bummer,like I don't know, it's life
right, it's not that serious.
Yeah, also, I just like want tonote that there's this coffin.
So, as you've been talking thiswhole time about like Boxes and
different things, I'm like I'mjust been every time I take a
(38:09):
drink, I'm like looking at thiscoffin and that's yeah, this is
weird.
I did not plan that to this.
I was just like, oh, it'sspooky season, I'm gonna bring
my special mug.
And now I'm like, oh, this isfantastic.
Kristelle (38:19):
I haven't really been able to take anything.
Jace (38:21):
Seriously as a result of this.
Oh, I think you know the keytakeaways, as there are key
takeaways to this podcast thereand I want to throw out like
your, your team, use your peopleFor the support and, even if it
sounds silly, because somepeople like, why are you
grieving?
You're successful.
This is what you've workedtowards.
You should be happy.
How often do you hear that youshould be happy?
You've worked so hard for this.
(38:41):
Make sure you have your teamaround.
That's gonna Understand.
The letting go of one thing isdifficult and sad.
It's like when you break upwith somebody, even though it
was the right decision and youmade it.
Kristelle (38:51):
He automatically knows the squad that's gonna be
around you.
Jace (38:54):
Yeah, yeah Well yeah, it's like there's still sadness
there.
So I like that's my biggestthing, that right away.
Kristelle (38:59):
My top resources, my people, my support team around
me, yeah, yeah most definitely Iwell, and you got the
professionals, and then you gotyour squad right.
We talk about the squad a lotin the podcast.
For sure, before we even talkabout, you know, the, the, the
end of the episode right, the.
Jace (39:18):
The key takeaways that I'll admit.
Kristelle (39:20):
You know, one of the reasons why we do this podcast
is not only for people to knowwho CR is, not just me, but you,
justin, the rest of the staff.
I think that it people don'trealize that this podcast
becomes a little bit of therapyhmm, for the both of us, and
(39:42):
Unintentional therapy, I think,is a good one, or free therapy
for me for sure.
And I appreciate you say youknow, saying that About Charlie
and talking about it, because weall know it's not gonna be easy
and you've warned us and toldus about it, right, like it's
not gonna be easy, I will not befunctioning.
Yeah, you know it's a it's agreat way to just be real, right
(40:05):
, and that's what I love aboutthis podcast, and I'm always
really grateful for the topicsthat we choose.
It's not all rainbows andponies when it comes to success,
right, and this is definitelyone of those episodes where it
hurts, grief hurts, but it's animportant part of our journey to
get where we want to go.
Jace (40:23):
Hmm, I think, and it's so messy, grief is so messy, oh,
messy.
And you know what else isSuccess?
It is, success is so messy.
Yeah, so maybe that, maybethat'll be my final final word
is to allow the mess, celebratethe mess, give time for the mess
, recognize that Success ismessy and that doesn't mean
(40:46):
we're off track.
Kristelle (40:48):
Absolutely.
That's gonna do it for us forthis week's episode of story,
success and stuff.
Thank you for joining, forthere is a lot of listeners now.
Usually the joke is for ourmoms that are listening, but not
just our moms that arelistening, but for we have had
overwhelming amounts of peoplecoming to us and saying Thank
(41:09):
you for distributing out thepodcast, producing the podcast.
Thanks to you, justin, asalways.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
follow us on your favoritesocial media channels at CRs of
the agency and find out moreabout what we can do at CRs of
comm.
We're grateful for you beinghere.
I'm very excited for nextweek's topic, once the grief has
(41:30):
settled.
It's about motivation anotherfun one and so I hope that you
get to join us and subscribe tous on your favorite podcast
channel.
But otherwise, thanks so muchfor joining.
We'll see you soon.
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