February 22, 2024 • 44 mins
Dive deeper into the vital intersection of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) with hosts Kristelle and Jace in this compelling follow-up podcast episode. Brace yourself for a riveting conversation featuring Grace Garner, the trailblazing first Latina council member and mayor of Palm Springs, alongside Lauren Bruggemans, the visionary Director of Sustainability & Community Engagement at Visit Greater Palm Springs. Together, they explore the profound impact of DEI on various facets of society, from business and tourism to the overall success of a city.
About Our Guests
Grace Garner, First Latina Mayor of Palm Springs & Council Member
Social: @wewinwithgrace
https://wewinwithgrace.com
Lauren Bruggemans, Director of Sustainability & Community Engagement at Visit Greater Palm Springs
Social: @laurenbruggemans
Email: LaurenB@VisitGreaterPS.com
https://www.visitgreaterpalmsprings.com
A Siarza Production
Hosted by Kristelle Siarza Moon & Jace Downey
Executive Producer: Kristelle Siarza Moon
Producer: Jace Downey
Video/Editing: Justin Otsuka
Watch episodes at siarza.com/siarza-podcast
Follow us on FB, IG, TT, YT and TW @siarzatheagency
Follow Kristelle @kristellesiarza
www.misskristelle.com
Follow Jace @jacedowneyofficial
www.jacedowney.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristelle (00:00):
another great episode of Story of Success and stuff,
(00:03):
but this one feels like the auraof bad assery, right, that's
right for a look for that one.
Yeah, I didn't see that coming.
Jace (00:11):
I was like what are we at the aura?
It's true, these are some veryimpressive ladies that we're
getting to talk to today.
Yeah, like they're almost likeI would say they're intimidating
, except for they're so nice andsweet and awesome and they're
just all they're like if yourheart was a human on the outside
trying to do wonderful thingsin the world.
(00:33):
That's our guest today.
Kristelle (00:35):
So I think we should have a recurring theme of bad
assery with our guests, andtoday's guest is council member
Grace Garner from the city ofPalm Springs.
And just to even say that thatwe have that high profile of a
guest is like holy smokes.
Jace (00:52):
It's our first politician, our first politician amazing.
Kristelle (00:56):
I call it Silver Servant, you call it politician,
that's same same.
And then the vice president ofdirector excuse me, the director
of sustainability.
I just gave you a promotion,director of sustainability and
community engagement, for visitPalm Springs.
Ms Lauren Bruggeman, we had thepleasure of talking to them
today.
What did you think?
What do viewers have to expectabout what they're gonna hear in
(01:20):
the next couple of minutes?
Jace (01:22):
The producer in me wants to like make it really so
lacious so people will watch.
But it's worth.
It's definitely worth kickingaround.
Kristelle (01:30):
We do.
I was gonna say we don't, butmaybe I'm like how can we like,
really sell it?
Jace (01:34):
No, we're continuing our conversation from last week
where we're talking aboutdiversity, equity and inclusion
and in this episode we'rebroadening that out not just to
businesses, but we are includingthe economic component of it,
but the importance of that in acity, not just the moral
(01:55):
implications of that, but howdoes it actually build a better,
larger community, city, tourism, hospitality, jobs, by, simply,
I still don't understand whywe're so upset.
But like letting more people beinvolved.
Don't freak out like that'swhat DEI is like.
(02:16):
More people get to be involved,people get to say in the things
that impact them, yes, like, ohGod, like what?
Kristelle (02:25):
are we fighting about here, but?
Jace (02:26):
and they're talking about this in.
I know that there's a keynoteand then a fireside chat at
Counselors Academy where you'regonna be kicking it with them in
April.
Can you share a little bit,because I know we've touched on
that here and there?
Counselors Academy that's areally big part of your service
work as well.
What, just real quick.
What is that?
Kristelle (02:47):
Yeah, the Counselors Academy is a special section in
the National Public RelationsSociety of America and what's
great about the reason why we'rehaving a series of folks, ken
being actually first part of theseries?
We wanted people that areinterested in attending the 2024
Spring Conference to actuallyget a taste of some of the
conversations that we're gonnahave with some of the guests.
(03:07):
So, ken, big leader energy, kenJacobs was a great guest of
ours from last week I was usingit two weeks ago Council member
Grace, elena Garner and Laurenis incredible because Lauren's
gonna give a keynote about theimportance of sustainability,
especially as a person thatworks in hospitality and tourism
(03:27):
, and people forget that that'sa big part of public relations.
So owners get to really get herperspective of, like, what are
some of the changes inmilestones that she's gonna be
implementing in Palm Springs.
And then, of course, councilmember Grace Garner and Lauren
are actually really closefriends.
They're best friends, they'relike sisters, right?
Yeah, it's super cute and she'sthe first Latina mayor of Visit
(03:50):
Palm Springs, and so one of thegreat things that Latricia
Harper Woods, our great ex-commember of Councilor's Academy,
incorporated in New Orleans, wasyou bring the city, you bring
the vibe of the city, theculture of the city.
You bring the electricity ofthe city into the conference
because we're so busy learningthat we're really, really
(04:12):
thrilled to have visit like thePalm Springs leaders come to us
and use their stories as casestudies for what you can do as
owners.
So I'm very excited to havethem and have you read their
impressive we will post thiswhole thing in the description
because they're so cool.
Jace (04:29):
But yeah, let's share a little bit about who's gonna be
on the show today.
Kristelle (04:33):
Okay so Council member Grace Elena Garner is a
second generation Palm Springsresident, first elected in 2019,
representing District 1.
The cool thing about her is shewas mentioning is that District
1 is actually one of the mostdiverse districts and talking
about leading people that areunderrepresented, like finally,
they have that sense ofrepresentation, which is awesome
, and some of the things thatshe's championing affordable
housing, improving communityfacilities, more focused youth
(04:57):
programming, neighborhood needs.
As the mayor, she was ensuringfor timely and centered meetings
around joy and communityinvolvement.
Like community involvement ismy jam, I was so excited to hear
that Incredible, incrediblewoman.
Jace (05:12):
Absolutely.
She also made sure to involvenot just adults but young people
as well.
I mean, she grew up in PalmSprings she's second generation,
so like that's her town.
She was all of the servicesthat she helps with today.
She used as a child the schools, the parks, the public library.
It's such a deep passion forher to be in service to her city
(05:35):
, which I think is just supersweet.
As someone who's recentlyfallen back in love with my
hometown like to hear, thatpassion is really great.
And she makes sure to involvethe young people as well,
whether that's leading thePledge of Allegiance at the city
council meetings or shedeveloped and manages a paid
internship so that collegestudents can come work in
(05:55):
government.
Kristelle (05:56):
I can't tell you how like impactful that is, because
government can be incrediblyintimidating and we talk about
this in the show, which we'rereally excited for you to hear
the interview.
But the piece that I felt veryattached to Grace was when she
said, or when we talked abouthow people need to look like her
, or like you're at the tablenow, Like and there's a lot of
(06:16):
people that can find leadershipor example from her, from being
in that position, which Ithought was really incredible
and then I would say she's ago-getter too.
Jace (06:25):
When Tropical Storm Hillary hit over there and there
was all of the damage, shereally did step up as a voice
for different communities andhelped bring in $50 million to
the city to help with cleanupand infrastructure.
Kristelle (06:38):
People don't realize how big of a lift that is to get
that type of money from federal, regional, wherever that might
be.
Aid in general for a communitythat doesn't seem like it needs
aid Like the fact that she did.
That is huge.
But then let's talk about herbadass best friend, dynamic duo
super combo yeah.
(06:58):
Lauren being the director ofsustainability and community
engagement for Visit PalmSprings.
I think what's really coolabout it is that not only does
she give us some practicaladvice on, like the how of DEI,
right Implementing DEI but she'sliving it.
And there's a lot oforganizations that are cutting
funding out of DEI practices andthank God Visit Palm Springs
didn't and is really puttingtheir money where their mouth is
(07:19):
, which she talks about in thispart, and she talks about being.
She was a former ED of ahospitality foundation.
Like what's really cool is that, as a Filipina and she's partly
Filipina it was really coolabout learning about her, or
what you're about to learn abouther is the fact that
hospitality tourism is actuallyvery important to the Filipino
(07:40):
culture, so she's leading, withFilipino culture in mind, for
the dynamic work that she'sdoing.
Jace (07:46):
And she's lived all over the world as well and has had
hospitality as such a big partof her own background, but her
family as well.
So it's like she lives, sleeps,eats and breathes hospitality
and it goes so much deeper thanI even think.
You know.
Maybe we travel, go to a hoteland you don't really think about
the people involved.
(08:07):
But like, look around when youare Like it is such a wide
canvas of different demographicsand all of these things that
are behind the scenes andenjoying it as well.
I mean, she went over toIndonesia and started like built
a school, talk us through, likegive a little piece of what she
was doing over there.
Kristelle (08:27):
She went to Eastern Indonesia.
She worked for the innovation,or she won an award for
innovation for the UN WorldTourism Organization in 2018.
And then, after and then, shewas the executive director of
Semba Hospitality Foundation,which was the one that won the
award from the UN, which isincredible.
She was also okay, this is coolCampaign manager for her best
(08:49):
friend.
Lauren (08:51):
Like not that she has.
Kristelle (08:52):
What she loves.
Yeah, that's incredible, liketalk about uplifting each other
Absolutely, and it really wasvery grassroots for her to be
elected and to lead the charge.
Jace (09:01):
We talk about that with different people when they're
pioneering something.
It is an uphill climb, and so Ilove that they did that
together and they got thecommunity involved.
Like you're going to hear thatword a lot in this episode.
It's very, very dear to theirhearts, as it is for ours as
well.
And then, after she did that,she went right back.
Kristelle (09:22):
To Palm Springs.
Jace (09:23):
Well, they were in Palm Springs, but after she did the
campaign she went right backinto the hospitality industry
and doing education around it aswell and, like she, ran the
school over in Indonesia andthey also had an eco-friendly
resort on site so that thestudents could practice what
they were learning in the schoolwith sustainability in mind
100%.
Kristelle (09:43):
So we're really excited to kick it off and we
hope that you enjoy this greatinterview with Grace and also
with Lauren.
But before we jump into it,don't forget to subscribe on
your favorite podcast channel onYouTube or follow us on CRScom
for more information on stories,success and stuff.
You can find this there.
I'm going to thank CouncilMember Grace Garner and the
(10:09):
Director of Sustainability andCommunity Engagement, lauren
Bruggeman.
Thank you so, so, so much forbeing here today.
We're so excited and how it'sall coming about.
Of course, we're going to seeeach other at the Counselors of
Canterbury Spring Conference inApril, located in Palm Springs,
and, of course, jace has had thepleasure of talking to you all
beforehand.
But one of the big questions isa common theme of the show
(10:32):
stories, success and stuff.
We always like to hear storiesof success and stuff.
Lauren (10:39):
And most of the stuff.
Kristelle (10:40):
So I wanted to ask how do the two of you,
independently or together?
Part one to the question is howdo you define success for
yourselves?
And then, how do you definesuccess for your city?
Who would like to start on thatheavy question?
Oh wow.
Lauren (10:59):
OK, all right, individually we were talking
about this before we're reallyboth driven by community and by
equity, and promoting equity.
It's a common thread in both ofour work.
So I'm coming at it from thehospitality and tourism lens.
So for me, success is bringingup others around me and ensuring
(11:22):
that people of color are inleadership positions and that
we're growing hospitality andtourism leaders locally from the
Coachella Valley.
It's our number one industryhere.
It's a really driving economicforce and we want to be sure
that tourism and hospitality isreally for everyone.
So for me personally, that'ssuccess and just kind of
(11:42):
centering community.
Grace (11:44):
Definitely that community impact is really big right and
making sure that people feelheard.
So for me it's success when Ihave residents coming up to me
and saying that they want toparticipate in our city, that
they have ideas and they feelempowered to share them with me.
That's a huge, huge part of it.
When I first started on thecity council, we often didn't
(12:06):
hear from certain communitiesand then, once I got on because
my connection to Palm Springs isvery different than the rest of
the council we started to hearmore of those voices and people
would just come up to meprivately and say they were
interested in serving oncommissions or getting involved
more.
And so for me that's a big partof our success.
And for the city, what successis?
(12:28):
Making that impact and makingsure that everyone feels like
they have a place in PalmSprings, that everyone has a
safe place to live, that theyhave quality work that they're
able to do and just feel welcomein the city.
And I think that we're makingreally good strides to get there
for everyone.
Jace (12:45):
Y'all will actually be welcoming me to the city in
March.
My best friend and his husbandlive out there, and so I'll
actually be coming to PalmSprings To visit y'all.
Yeah, it's a great town.
Kristelle (12:56):
Yeah, and myself in April I was telling Jace I was
like I landed and I saw theairport and I'm going wait
what's going on and it was verywelcoming and so mission
accomplished from an aviationperson.
Jace (13:10):
Yeah, I would say I love the Palm Springs airport.
However, and because I have you, my best friend travels in and
out of there a lot often and hewas just saying this very
morning that the internetconnection in the airport is not
ideal and goes who do I talk toabout this?
And I'm like I don't know, butI got these ladies in front of
me so I'm going to just throw itout there.
Eric, I got you, brother.
Grace (13:32):
So we're actually doing a whole airport master plan.
So the entire airport is beingrenovated and expanded.
So that's what's going to leaveyou Wi-Fi?
Ok, see me using my fame tohelp my friends.
Jace (13:42):
So that's, I'm getting in there.
You guys do love community somuch.
It's such a big part of yourlives and your connection to the
city and to the community.
How did that play a role inyour work with the Caravan Surai
project there and do you wantto explain a little about it?
It's such a cool project.
Lauren (14:01):
Yeah, I'd love to so Visit.
Greater Palm Springs is therepresentative for the tourism
and hospitality industry acrossthe Coachella Valley.
Palm Springs is actually partof a nine city valley and we
really wanted to support smallbusinesses and particularly
underserved entrepreneurs to bea part of that thriving tourism
(14:24):
and hospitality landscape.
So we partnered with CaravanSurai Project and they're a
nonprofit that provides businesstraining and access to capital
to underserved entrepreneurs andwe sponsored a cohort of 30
Spanish-speaking entrepreneurswith small businesses in the
ecosystem and really wanted tobroaden what a hospitality
(14:44):
business is.
So six of our businesses werechild care businesses, because
we know that access toaffordable child care is really
a barrier to our workforce.
So we worked with them tosupport this cohort with
training and, again, access tocapital and a network.
And we had a wonderful showcaseevent at the Palm Springs Art
Museum.
(15:04):
Grace had the city councilprovide a proclamation.
She came and spoke and theentrepreneurs were so touched
and humbled by her presencethere and saw her as
inspirational as the firstLatina mayor, the first Latina
council member of Palm Springs.
And the city of Palm Springs iscontinuing their engagement
(15:24):
with Caravan Surai Project.
Grace (15:26):
We are.
So the city is now working withthem directly to impact the
Northern part of our city, wherewe have a large Black and
Latino population, and we'retrying to work with them to
provide some moreentrepreneurial resources for
them as well.
We have a lot of people whosell food out of their homes,
and a lot of other people in thecommunity don't know about it.
(15:47):
It's really just theirneighbors.
So how do we help them toestablish broader businesses?
We have someone who does taxesin our community but has to rent
space from a nearby cityinstead of in Palm Springs.
How do we help him?
There's lots of differentpeople we've already identified
who could use these resources,and so now Caravan Surai is
(16:08):
going to go in and really workwith them.
Kristelle (16:10):
Well, when I get there in April, I'd really love
to sit down and learn about howyou all did that, because one of
the things that Jace and I weretalking about beforehand is
that we're starting to see thecommon threads that New Mexico
has versus Palm Springsdifferent in many different ways
, but similar.
A lot of the challenges thatyou're trying to solve is a
challenge that we're trying tosolve here in New Mexico, so I'd
(16:32):
love to compare notes.
But one of the things that wasfascinating that I can hear
about in this project, caravanSurai, is that, and also in your
bio and this question is forGrace you have the opportunity
to leave Palm Springs.
Same thing with you, lauren,and I know that you came back
and in New Mexico we have thischallenge of the brain drain,
(16:55):
the brain drain being peopleleave the area and then they
either come back we call themreturn descenders because
they're coming back to mom ormultiple times or multiple times
, yeah right, or they decidethat they stay in their
community because they know thatthey can make differences in
their communities.
So the golden question that Ihave based off your bio, based
(17:16):
off of the project on CaravanSurai why did you decide to stay
, grace?
As a Latina, that is constantly.
I know that we don't know eachother deeply yet, but it seems
like you're constantly goingagainst the grain with a lot of
the challenges of a communitythat doesn't quite embrace DEI
quite yet and you're being onthat forefront, right.
(17:36):
So why did you decide to stayin Palm Springs?
Grace (17:41):
Well, I did leave Palm Springs, so I lived in
Washington DC for quite sometime and then I came back.
But I always knew I wanted tocome back and I wanted to be
able to really represent thecommunity that I knew in Palm
Springs.
And watching there be a shiftin the community, having a lot
more people come in and retirethere and really kind of be at
(18:06):
the forefront of leadership,made me realize that there were
voices missing.
It had been many years sincewe'd had anybody on the city
council that had grown up thereor had been living there for a
really long time, and so therewas this lack of connection to
the people that I knew.
I didn't know wealthy people.
I grew up in a pretty modestbackground and the people I knew
(18:31):
were hospitality workers, theywere maintenance workers, they
were janitors, they were doingservice work, and I didn't feel
like their voices were beingrepresented as well as they
could be.
And so much of that is justthat connection.
When you don't know anybody inthese leadership roles, you
don't even know who to go to.
Are they even going to care?
(18:54):
And it really takes a level ofprivilege, I think, for people
to feel like they can reach outto their city council member and
that their city council memberwill then listen.
So for people who are incommunities that don't generally
have those connections, it canbe hard for them to even take
that step to feel like, oh,you're working for me, right.
(19:16):
So for me it was a big part ofmaking sure that I was
representing all of the voicesin Palm Springs and really
asking the question who's nothere?
The same people often come toour meetings and their voices
are important as well, but it'slike who's not here and what do
they have to say?
And sometimes that means goingout and doing that work to be
(19:39):
near those folks and just askthem directly what it is that
they want or need.
Kristelle (19:43):
Well, owen, I think what's really powerful too and
I'll toss it to Jayce here in asecond for you, lauren but what
I think is really powerful inwhat you said is I'll never
forget the first Asian citycouncilor that just got
appointed, maybe three years agoduring the pandemic, and the
city has been around since it'sat least 300 years old.
(20:04):
And as long as you see somebodythat looks like you that's
leading the charge and I thinkwhat you said was very powerful
you feel like you have to have asense of prestige or you have
to have a place at the table.
Where you're saying is or atleast from my interpreting, is
as long as you see somebodythat's up there, you don't have
(20:24):
to force yourself to the way tothe table.
I think that's incrediblypowerful.
Jace (20:30):
Well, and it sets an example as well or even you
saying that you're checkingwho's not here.
As a woman, especially, myfirst career was in a very male
dominant.
I was often the only woman inthe room.
Nobody asked, hey, are wemaking sure that your opinion is
being included?
Nobody was looking out for me.
So I kind of feel tearful justhearing that question who's not
(20:52):
here?
And that there are peoplethinking that way and working
that way and asking thosequestions because there are so
many that are not representedand it's scary when no one looks
like you to speak up.
So to have women like you inthese amazing positions is so
encouraging and, lauren, I knowyou in across the world.
Grace (21:12):
And then you came back.
Jace (21:15):
What did you discover while you were away and how have
you incorporated that withregard to sustainability and DEI
coming back into Palm Springs?
Lauren (21:26):
Yeah, I had the good fortune to have been born in
Palm Springs but also livedabroad From a young age.
My dad was in hospitality,lived in Indonesia, singapore,
south Africa, switzerland,london so so lucky.
And more recently, I was anexecutive director of a project
in Eastern Indonesia.
It was a hospitality school forunderprivileged young people
(21:49):
that had a really strongsustainability footprint.
Grace visited me there and itwas a real joy for her to
experience that and it wasreally life changing for me to
be there and the lessonsactually that I learned on this
small island in EasternIndonesia about community, about
not making assumptions, aboutwhat everyone wants and asking
(22:12):
the community's opinion aboutwhat works for them.
I took that back to Palm Springswith me and in 2019, I ran
Grace's campaign and it was agrassroots, community-based
campaign and those lessons thatI learned in Indonesia I brought
(22:32):
back.
Every voice matters.
We knocked on so many doors, wemade so many calls and we were
able to get Grace elected.
Grace and I have met each otherwhen we were 13 or 14.
So I came back to Palm Springswhen I was a freshman in high
school and she was one of theonly people in my school in the
(22:56):
school that cared about mytravels.
She had a curiosity for theworld and for the experiences I
had, and she'd always beenincredibly just, brave and
courageous and was a voice forthose that weren't heard.
So when it full circle comingback in 2019, when she was like
I want to run for city council,she's like yes you've been
(23:17):
preparing for this your wholelife.
We've been preparing for this.
We're going to do it and we'regoing to use all the lessons
we've learned along the way tomake it happen.
Incredible.
Kristelle (23:27):
I rarely get speechless.
That's true, and that is so coolto see a sisterhood of
leadership between the two ofyou and who became the advocate
for I mean, in our last episodewe talked about diversity,
(23:51):
equity and inclusion, andthere's the statistics that are
showing that a majority of thework force is by 2050, from the
Kellogg Foundation says that amajority of the work force is
going to be people of color.
And not only that, but when wecan shrink the racial gap, we
know that it can be more of anequitable society.
(24:12):
Shrinking the racial gap ispart of the economic development
strategies as we see forward.
So I guess, while I fumblethrough that idea, I think one
of the things that I'm hearingfrom you both is diversity,
equity and inclusion runs reallydeep between the two of you,
both from a public and privatepartnership and personal
(24:35):
partnership between the two ofyou.
So what investments, not onlyin a community like Palm Springs
, but for our listeners that areacross the globe what
investments do you think need tobe made in diversity, equity
and inclusion right now,especially when folks are
actually starting to take awaydiversity, equity and inclusion
(24:56):
and inclusion?
So, from a public perspective,from a private perspective, I am
curious about what yourthoughts are on that very
important topic.
Lauren (25:04):
DEI, just those three little letters, have become so
politicized.
But when you break it down andreally hone in on those values,
they're so crucial, so pivotalfrom a number of layers, right
From an ethical and moral layer.
It's the right thing to do.
But I think you know I workoften with the business
community.
But it's reminding about thebusiness case of DEI.
(25:27):
The more inclusive we are, themore welcome we are as a
destination.
That's more dollars on thetable, right, that's more money
for everybody.
But it does take an investmentof time, of resources to really
practically embed DEI inprograms like Caravan Survive
(25:47):
Project, right, it's not keepingit up in the blue sky of you
know, dei is a great thing.
But how do we really reallyrebalance inequity?
What investments from politicalside, from the city side, to
say and recognize it, recognizethat there are systemic
inequities?
How do we address them?
(26:08):
And you know I'm really proudto work for an organization like
VisitGrader Pump Springs thatinvested in a director level
position to move these reallyimportant issues forward and
puts their money where theirmouth is on a number of levels.
Grace (26:24):
Right, it makes such a big difference in our community
too.
Right, when you start toinclude everyone, when you're
making these active efforts tobring people in, that's when the
ideas get better.
Right, somebody bringssomething forward and it's new
and exciting.
And then there's somebody elsein the room that has a lot of
experience working on certainthings and they can implement it
(26:47):
.
I mean, we were just talkingabout the Rikotela Valley
Filipino Festival the other dayand it's so incredible and it
started off with an idea.
Right, I met some Filipino folksabout six years ago who said we
would love to do a Filipinoparty and we want to just get a
(27:08):
day together to just celebratebeing Filipino.
And I'm like, yeah, that's socool, I love that.
And it was really just an ideathat floated around for a solid
five years of people talkingabout it, throwing out ideas.
And then they got connected toa friend of ours, lauren Wolfer,
and she was like, oh, I cantotally make this happen.
(27:29):
And she did.
Right, she's not Filipino, she.
But she was just like I lovethis, this is a great idea and I
can help you get everyonetogether and make it successful.
And thousands of people camefor the first ever Filipino
festival, and so I think that'swhat happens when you just bring
people in and start talkingabout different ideas, but it
(27:51):
was an uphill battle.
I mean, there were people, theywere asking for funding from
people and they were like, isthis something that we really
want to invest in?
And then, thankfully, when I'min the room, I'm able to say, ok
, let me give you Filipino 101,right.
Because I grew up in PalmSprings with a large Filipino
community, with a best friend,that's Filipino right.
(28:11):
So I was able to say, likeFilipinos will travel for a
festival, like they will travelfor their people.
Like they travel for theirpeople.
But you know a lot of thepeople in this power decision
making room.
Kristelle (28:26):
They didn't know that right.
Grace (28:28):
And then they saw the event happen and they're like
whoa, this is amazing.
And I try not to say I told youso, but I say it a lot in my
head.
I tell people directly, but inmy head I'm like, well, yeah,
yeah.
Jace (28:40):
You're like well, what a shock, Isn't that interesting
that it turned out that way.
Kristelle (28:44):
But what's really cool is that you had an ally,
right Like an ally that wasn'tFilipino, that was help
advocating, which she will everbe known as like Tithalorin to
the Asian community 100%.
Jace (28:57):
So even like, as you're saying that and like bringing
new ideas and that, that can bevery exciting.
It can also be really scary orupsetting or frustrating, and
I'm even thinking about it'sgoing to be real talk here for a
minute, crystal, but I'll beworking on a project and she'll
throw an idea in, or hey, I'drather see it this way, or
whatever.
And sometimes I get reallyfrustrated with that.
I'm like I already have thisthing in mind and I have my
timeline set out and I've gotall this stuff and then I'll be
(29:19):
like all right, chill, jay's one, she's my boss, so I got to do
it anyway.
But also a ton of experience inthe industry and is usually
right, and so I'll be like allright, let me see if I can play
around that.
How can I make that my own,whatever, and it's always better
.
The collaboration always makesit better.
Even if my idea was cool in thefirst place, bringing someone
(29:39):
else on, I'm always like, ohokay, and you would think that
the next time I just go, boom,let's do this whatever you say,
I'm going to do it.
But there's something that makes, just like when you, when
something gets snow globed, it'sscary, and we talked about that
, like even you said, like thatyou know a little DIY, like, oh,
(30:00):
now everybody's freaking outand it's very upsetting to
people to hear that.
Diversity, equity and inclusionit's almost become a bad word
and something we discussed onthe last episode along with that
is that part of that, Itheorize, is just fear of change
.
Certainly the uncertainty ofwhat that means.
(30:20):
What does it mean for me?
Is that is it taking somethingaway from me?
Am I going to be in danger?
Things like that, and thatpeople don't necessarily know
how to incorporate that intotheir business, into their lives
, or what really being an allylooks like and what it entails.
And we left the conversationopen-ended.
We certainly don't have theanswers, but how can people be
(30:42):
consistent allies in this space?
Kristelle (30:46):
Especially in travel and tourism too.
Lorna, I'll kick it to you.
Like, we hear you know inmarketing, we hear tool kits and
guides and white papers of howwe can be more inclusive.
How do we honor black historywithout just the holiday itself,
or LGBTQ Mother Pride Month,Right, Like, how do we?
(31:07):
How do we honor pridethroughout the year?
So I'm curious to see howyou've guided a lot of the
tourism entities and visit PalmSprings and what was the how,
what was what did the checklistof how look like for you?
Lauren (31:19):
Sure, yeah, yeah, art.
You know Our team had beenthinking about inclusion for
years, pre 2020.
But 2020 was a flashpoint andwe wanted to be really
intentional about our pathforward.
We didn't just want to post ablack square, we wanted to
really do the work because, justto go back a step, our area,
(31:42):
thankfully, is known as a reallyprogressive and inclusive place
.
It's kind of in our DNA,particularly with the LGBTQ plus
community.
So our team at visit greaterpump springs actually enlisted a
consultant in the traveltourism DEI space called travel
unity, and they really workedwith us that.
You know.
It started with a survey of ofeveryone's sort of current
(32:06):
baseline feelings about how wewere doing with regards to DEI
and then moved into how do wethen embed these principles into
our systems and processes, justthe way we worked.
And that was internal and thenit's moving it externally.
How do we work with ourstakeholders to uplift what
they're doing with regards toinclusion and equity or help
(32:29):
them to do to do their DEIprograms a little bit better
with our resources?
But you know we have a bigresponsibility as a destination
marketing organization.
The images we project to theworld are seen globally and
those images can make peoplefeel welcomed or not.
(32:49):
So there's a realintentionality in our marketing
department about showing peopleof color, showing people of all
sizes, all sexualities, allidentities, because, again, it's
, if you don't see yourself here, you don't see yourself here.
So you can't envision yourselfin greater pump springs if you
(33:11):
don't see those images projected.
So I think there was a numberof ways we were looking at it,
but it's really about, I think,again, grounding Some of it's
not sexy right systems andprocesses.
How do we, how do we change avendor contract so that there's
a values alignment?
How do we eliminate barriers ordecrease barriers to working
(33:31):
with, with people fromunderserved communities?
So it's some of these thingsthat were the way we were
thinking of it, of creating thestrategy, both internally and
externally.
Jace (33:41):
Before we go to you, grace on, I just highlight those all
in one place for our listenersand ourselves as well.
There are professionals thatare already studying this,
working on it, they specializeit, they are for hire or for
giving guidance.
They exist, they're out theremore and more.
There are resources that areavailable as well to help with
all of these things.
Even first, specifiedindustries, like you just talked
(34:02):
about, people specifically haveresources for that.
Having a strategy in placethat's actionable, they're going
to follow through with is areally big part of the how.
And then recognizing not justthe moral but the economic
benefits of more, more people,more money right, that's just.
That just makes sense.
And the component of themthings get better and grace.
Kristelle (34:27):
I want to bring back the public part of the
conversation.
So, for my understanding, withworking with the city, that's
right.
The governments are reallydictating the contract for a DMA
vendor right, or working withthe DMA very closely to meet the
city's objectives.
So what do you see?
I know that obviously you guyswant to be friends.
(34:47):
If you didn't agree, this was areally good investment for your
city, right.
But what?
What are your expectations ofsuccess and having a more
inclusive DMA strategy?
Grace (34:59):
I think it's just something that's really
important to us on so manylevels, and there's just the
moral aspect of it of wantingpeople to be welcomed and seen
in our city, but it's it's also,it is just that exchange of
ideas, but we are finding thatthere's a lot of things that we
have to do to be better at itright.
So one of the things that'sgoing to be coming before our
city council soon is reviewingkind of our procurement policies
(35:23):
and how we choose vendors forour city, because we're finding
that, even though we have alocal preference, it's not
enough, because we're still notgetting our local businesses
actually doing the work that thecity needs to do, and that
means we're missing out on a lotof like women owned businesses
and and by pop owned businesses,because our valley is very
(35:45):
diverse and these contracts aregoing out to to San Bernardino
County or LA County becausethey're the lowest bidder.
But why are they the lowestbidder?
Because they have the mostaccess to resources.
Right, the Coachella Valleydoesn't have that same as same
access, so their prices aregoing to be a little bit higher.
But if we're contracting with avendor from the Coachella Valley
(36:06):
, we're re investing in ourcommunity and we're going to get
a higher quality of work,because the people that are
doing this, this, are our careabout this, the work that
they're doing in their community.
Right, so we have, but we had,we had to kind of realize that
why is it that we're not gettingthe people that we want to work
with us?
Oh, it's because the way ourpolicy is written right now, it
(36:29):
excludes people.
So let's make these changes sothat we can better reflect the
community and all of the workthat we're doing, even if it's
just, you know, something behindthe scenes, like the
maintenance that we that getsdone throughout the city.
Jace (36:45):
You countered an objection .
I was going to throw itstraight, because one of the
first things people say when youtalk about hiring local, going
with local vendors, it's tooexpensive.
And so what I'm hearing, if I'mhearing you correctly, is that
there's a multi part combo thatneeds to be happening here,
where there are resourcesavailable, where they don't have
(37:07):
to have their prices so high,where they're priced out of the
bid, and so it's not just on oneentity, like the business, like
you know, to just spend moremoney.
It's like no, there's otherthings behind the scenes that
can be happening to make thismore realistic, including
changing policies and procedures, and what I'm hearing is some
like really big barriers tosuccess when DEI is not
(37:31):
prioritized.
Have there been barriers inyour own lives or with some of
the people you've seen when DEIisn't?
Kristelle (37:39):
prioritized, yeah, or even stakeholders and Palm
Springs, like.
What are those?
What are the barriers youconstantly having to overcome in
the positions that you have?
Jace (37:48):
Yeah, towards success.
Grace (37:50):
Yeah, I think for me, it's often that people don't
necessarily value all types ofwork and we can focus so often
on what degree do you have?
Where did you get it?
And not enough on whatsomeone's lived experiences,
right?
So when we're looking forpeople to serve on our
commissions or even people towork with, it's like okay, let's
(38:11):
look at this whole person andsee what it is that they can
contribute, right?
I mean, I think of moms.
All the time, you know you havea mother who has several
children.
To me it's like she doesn'tneed to spell out that she's a
multitasker, right, she's amultitasker, right.
Jace (38:30):
A girl can get things done , all right.
Grace (38:32):
So it's making sure that we're thinking about how all of
our lived experiences impact thework that we're capable of
doing.
So sure, this mom may have beenout of the workforce for five
years helping to raise her smallchildren, but in those five
years she did a million thingsthat contribute will contribute
to her ability to execute on thejob that she's now applying for
(38:55):
, so it shouldn't exclude her.
And so I think a lot of thebarriers to success are often us
not taking that extra moment tosay, like, what are those
experiences that you've had thatcan add to this position?
And that's something that I tryto raise.
A lot on the council is likehow do we bring people in and
(39:18):
what are these otheropportunities that we have?
Lauren (39:21):
And we were talking earlier.
But you know you brought thisup at the cost of education and
the cost of bettering yourself,right, and what that takes if
you have a family already, ifyou're like a sort of
non-traditional student.
What are all these other piecesthat you have to think about?
And you know from a hospitalityand tourism lens, you know I
(39:42):
also work on workforcedevelopment.
You know one of our barriers isjust growing hospitality
leaders locally, ensuring thatwe're providing the skills and
the tools and the knowledge andthe professional development
opportunities for folks in ourvalley to take those high level
positions.
And that's about sustainabilitytoo, right, growing a
sustainable pipeline of trainedstaff.
(40:04):
And that again, valuing alltypes of work, not valuing lived
experience, but valuing alltypes of work.
Every position in thehospitality industry has value
In my eyes.
It takes bravery, you know,strength of character to be of
service to others.
We don't often frame it thatway, but it does.
(40:26):
Every position is valuable, soI hope we can continue to do
that.
Jace (40:33):
I know you touched on childcare as well.
Expense transportation, likethere's all of these things that
people who don't have that inplace maybe don't think about.
Kristelle (40:43):
And we're running out of time.
So I do want to ask a very boldbut very on-brand for story
success and stuff on thispodcast.
And I know that folks will beable to see you at the
Counselors Academy SpringConference in 2024 in Palm
Springs in April and again,we're so excited that you're
going to join us for that.
But this is a fun one.
(41:04):
While you do the fireside chat,I'd be curious to see if this
question does come up,especially as we have a
multitude of agency owners andsecond-in-commands, as we call
it.
On your final day this isChase's question.
Ok, so on your final day,interpret that as you will.
How will you know?
You lived a good life?
Grace (41:28):
Yeah, For me, I'll know I lived a good life if I've
invested in people, invested incommunity and really listening
to others, in valuing theirstories, their experiences and
taking those moments to reallyconnect with people, and it's
not just in a professional waybut in a fun way.
(41:49):
When I lived in Washington DC,I stood out as the Californian
because I never asked peoplewhat do they do for work.
I just asked them about whothey are and what do they like
to do for fun.
And I learned so much aboutpeople by not focusing on their
work or their school oreducation, but just you.
(42:09):
What makes you you, what do youlove?
And those relationships are soimportant to me.
So to know that I've had thesereally wonderful experiences
with people, that would make mefeel just at peace.
Lauren (42:28):
And I think it's why we're best friends.
We have a real curiosity andfascination with the world and
with people, and I really feelthe same way.
Community is such a big threadand the work that we do is so
important to us.
But it's our friendship, it'sour families, it's having fun
(42:49):
and having balance.
I don't think living a goodlife had a good meal and then
done a karaoke session Just thetwo of us, which we did last
Friday by the way.
Jace (43:00):
Good yeah, tell me where the karaoke bars.
Kristelle (43:03):
I need to join for this one.
Lauren (43:06):
So, yeah, it's balancing the work that we do with fun
and love and joy.
Kristelle (43:13):
Ooh, that's improved Well.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We are so, so, so honored tohave you.
For the insights, for thequality of the conversation and,
most importantly, if peoplewanted to get a hold of you or
find out more about the workthat you do, where do you
recommend that they can connectwith you online?
Grace (43:31):
Oh well, I'm Lee Wynn, with Grace on kind of every
platform, instagram et cetera.
Lauren (43:39):
My Instagram isn't very robust, so my email is probably
best Lauren b atvisitgreaterpscom.
Jace (43:48):
Wonderful and I'll include all of that in the description
as well and you can also visitin person.
Go to Palm Springs.
It's beautiful especially ifyou're in winter like we are,
Get to Palm Springs.
It's warm over there.
Earned.
March Me and April so thank youall so much, we really
appreciate it, thank you, thankyou.
Kristelle (44:04):
Thanks again to Grace and to Lauren for joining us,
and we hope that you will seethem at the Counselors Academy
Spring Conference in April inPalm Springs.
This is it for us, for Jasonand I, for Stories, success and
Stuff.
We hope that you're followingus on your favorite podcast, on
YouTube or on CRScom.
Thanks for joining us and we'llsee you in next time's episode
of Stories, success and Stuff.
We hope that you'll watch us.
another great episode of Story of Success and stuff,
(00:03):
but this one feels like the auraof bad assery, right, that's
right for a look for that one.
Yeah, I didn't see that coming.
Jace (00:11):
I was like what are we at the aura?
It's true, these are some veryimpressive ladies that we're
getting to talk to today.
Yeah, like they're almost likeI would say they're intimidating
, except for they're so nice andsweet and awesome and they're
just all they're like if yourheart was a human on the outside
trying to do wonderful thingsin the world.
(00:33):
That's our guest today.
Kristelle (00:35):
So I think we should have a recurring theme of bad
assery with our guests, andtoday's guest is council member
Grace Garner from the city ofPalm Springs.
And just to even say that thatwe have that high profile of a
guest is like holy smokes.
Jace (00:52):
It's our first politician, our first politician amazing.
Kristelle (00:56):
I call it Silver Servant, you call it politician,
that's same same.
And then the vice president ofdirector excuse me, the director
of sustainability.
I just gave you a promotion,director of sustainability and
community engagement, for visitPalm Springs.
Ms Lauren Bruggeman, we had thepleasure of talking to them
today.
What did you think?
What do viewers have to expectabout what they're gonna hear in
(01:20):
the next couple of minutes?
Jace (01:22):
The producer in me wants to like make it really so
lacious so people will watch.
But it's worth.
It's definitely worth kickingaround.
Kristelle (01:30):
We do.
I was gonna say we don't, butmaybe I'm like how can we like,
really sell it?
Jace (01:34):
No, we're continuing our conversation from last week
where we're talking aboutdiversity, equity and inclusion
and in this episode we'rebroadening that out not just to
businesses, but we are includingthe economic component of it,
but the importance of that in acity, not just the moral
(01:55):
implications of that, but howdoes it actually build a better,
larger community, city, tourism, hospitality, jobs, by, simply,
I still don't understand whywe're so upset.
But like letting more people beinvolved.
Don't freak out like that'swhat DEI is like.
(02:16):
More people get to be involved,people get to say in the things
that impact them, yes, like, ohGod, like what?
Kristelle (02:25):
are we fighting about here, but?
Jace (02:26):
and they're talking about this in.
I know that there's a keynoteand then a fireside chat at
Counselors Academy where you'regonna be kicking it with them in
April.
Can you share a little bit,because I know we've touched on
that here and there?
Counselors Academy that's areally big part of your service
work as well.
What, just real quick.
What is that?
Kristelle (02:47):
Yeah, the Counselors Academy is a special section in
the National Public RelationsSociety of America and what's
great about the reason why we'rehaving a series of folks, ken
being actually first part of theseries?
We wanted people that areinterested in attending the 2024
Spring Conference to actuallyget a taste of some of the
conversations that we're gonnahave with some of the guests.
(03:07):
So, ken, big leader energy, kenJacobs was a great guest of
ours from last week I was usingit two weeks ago Council member
Grace, elena Garner and Laurenis incredible because Lauren's
gonna give a keynote about theimportance of sustainability,
especially as a person thatworks in hospitality and tourism
(03:27):
, and people forget that that'sa big part of public relations.
So owners get to really get herperspective of, like, what are
some of the changes inmilestones that she's gonna be
implementing in Palm Springs.
And then, of course, councilmember Grace Garner and Lauren
are actually really closefriends.
They're best friends, they'relike sisters, right?
Yeah, it's super cute and she'sthe first Latina mayor of Visit
(03:50):
Palm Springs, and so one of thegreat things that Latricia
Harper Woods, our great ex-commember of Councilor's Academy,
incorporated in New Orleans, wasyou bring the city, you bring
the vibe of the city, theculture of the city.
You bring the electricity ofthe city into the conference
because we're so busy learningthat we're really, really
(04:12):
thrilled to have visit like thePalm Springs leaders come to us
and use their stories as casestudies for what you can do as
owners.
So I'm very excited to havethem and have you read their
impressive we will post thiswhole thing in the description
because they're so cool.
Jace (04:29):
But yeah, let's share a little bit about who's gonna be
on the show today.
Kristelle (04:33):
Okay so Council member Grace Elena Garner is a
second generation Palm Springsresident, first elected in 2019,
representing District 1.
The cool thing about her is shewas mentioning is that District
1 is actually one of the mostdiverse districts and talking
about leading people that areunderrepresented, like finally,
they have that sense ofrepresentation, which is awesome
, and some of the things thatshe's championing affordable
housing, improving communityfacilities, more focused youth
(04:57):
programming, neighborhood needs.
As the mayor, she was ensuringfor timely and centered meetings
around joy and communityinvolvement.
Like community involvement ismy jam, I was so excited to hear
that Incredible, incrediblewoman.
Jace (05:12):
Absolutely.
She also made sure to involvenot just adults but young people
as well.
I mean, she grew up in PalmSprings she's second generation,
so like that's her town.
She was all of the servicesthat she helps with today.
She used as a child the schools, the parks, the public library.
It's such a deep passion forher to be in service to her city
(05:35):
, which I think is just supersweet.
As someone who's recentlyfallen back in love with my
hometown like to hear, thatpassion is really great.
And she makes sure to involvethe young people as well,
whether that's leading thePledge of Allegiance at the city
council meetings or shedeveloped and manages a paid
internship so that collegestudents can come work in
(05:55):
government.
Kristelle (05:56):
I can't tell you how like impactful that is, because
government can be incrediblyintimidating and we talk about
this in the show, which we'rereally excited for you to hear
the interview.
But the piece that I felt veryattached to Grace was when she
said, or when we talked abouthow people need to look like her
, or like you're at the tablenow, Like and there's a lot of
(06:16):
people that can find leadershipor example from her, from being
in that position, which Ithought was really incredible
and then I would say she's ago-getter too.
Jace (06:25):
When Tropical Storm Hillary hit over there and there
was all of the damage, shereally did step up as a voice
for different communities andhelped bring in $50 million to
the city to help with cleanupand infrastructure.
Kristelle (06:38):
People don't realize how big of a lift that is to get
that type of money from federal, regional, wherever that might
be.
Aid in general for a communitythat doesn't seem like it needs
aid Like the fact that she did.
That is huge.
But then let's talk about herbadass best friend, dynamic duo
super combo yeah.
(06:58):
Lauren being the director ofsustainability and community
engagement for Visit PalmSprings.
I think what's really coolabout it is that not only does
she give us some practicaladvice on, like the how of DEI,
right Implementing DEI but she'sliving it.
And there's a lot oforganizations that are cutting
funding out of DEI practices andthank God Visit Palm Springs
didn't and is really puttingtheir money where their mouth is
(07:19):
, which she talks about in thispart, and she talks about being.
She was a former ED of ahospitality foundation.
Like what's really cool is that, as a Filipina and she's partly
Filipina it was really coolabout learning about her, or
what you're about to learn abouther is the fact that
hospitality tourism is actuallyvery important to the Filipino
(07:40):
culture, so she's leading, withFilipino culture in mind, for
the dynamic work that she'sdoing.
Jace (07:46):
And she's lived all over the world as well and has had
hospitality as such a big partof her own background, but her
family as well.
So it's like she lives, sleeps,eats and breathes hospitality
and it goes so much deeper thanI even think.
You know.
Maybe we travel, go to a hoteland you don't really think about
the people involved.
(08:07):
But like, look around when youare Like it is such a wide
canvas of different demographicsand all of these things that
are behind the scenes andenjoying it as well.
I mean, she went over toIndonesia and started like built
a school, talk us through, likegive a little piece of what she
was doing over there.
Kristelle (08:27):
She went to Eastern Indonesia.
She worked for the innovation,or she won an award for
innovation for the UN WorldTourism Organization in 2018.
And then, after and then, shewas the executive director of
Semba Hospitality Foundation,which was the one that won the
award from the UN, which isincredible.
She was also okay, this is coolCampaign manager for her best
(08:49):
friend.
Lauren (08:51):
Like not that she has.
Kristelle (08:52):
What she loves.
Yeah, that's incredible, liketalk about uplifting each other
Absolutely, and it really wasvery grassroots for her to be
elected and to lead the charge.
Jace (09:01):
We talk about that with different people when they're
pioneering something.
It is an uphill climb, and so Ilove that they did that
together and they got thecommunity involved.
Like you're going to hear thatword a lot in this episode.
It's very, very dear to theirhearts, as it is for ours as
well.
And then, after she did that,she went right back.
Kristelle (09:22):
To Palm Springs.
Jace (09:23):
Well, they were in Palm Springs, but after she did the
campaign she went right backinto the hospitality industry
and doing education around it aswell and, like she, ran the
school over in Indonesia andthey also had an eco-friendly
resort on site so that thestudents could practice what
they were learning in the schoolwith sustainability in mind
100%.
Kristelle (09:43):
So we're really excited to kick it off and we
hope that you enjoy this greatinterview with Grace and also
with Lauren.
But before we jump into it,don't forget to subscribe on
your favorite podcast channel onYouTube or follow us on CRScom
for more information on stories,success and stuff.
You can find this there.
I'm going to thank CouncilMember Grace Garner and the
(10:09):
Director of Sustainability andCommunity Engagement, lauren
Bruggeman.
Thank you so, so, so much forbeing here today.
We're so excited and how it'sall coming about.
Of course, we're going to seeeach other at the Counselors of
Canterbury Spring Conference inApril, located in Palm Springs,
and, of course, jace has had thepleasure of talking to you all
beforehand.
But one of the big questions isa common theme of the show
(10:32):
stories, success and stuff.
We always like to hear storiesof success and stuff.
Lauren (10:39):
And most of the stuff.
Kristelle (10:40):
So I wanted to ask how do the two of you,
independently or together?
Part one to the question is howdo you define success for
yourselves?
And then, how do you definesuccess for your city?
Who would like to start on thatheavy question?
Oh wow.
Lauren (10:59):
OK, all right, individually we were talking
about this before we're reallyboth driven by community and by
equity, and promoting equity.
It's a common thread in both ofour work.
So I'm coming at it from thehospitality and tourism lens.
So for me, success is bringingup others around me and ensuring
(11:22):
that people of color are inleadership positions and that
we're growing hospitality andtourism leaders locally from the
Coachella Valley.
It's our number one industryhere.
It's a really driving economicforce and we want to be sure
that tourism and hospitality isreally for everyone.
So for me personally, that'ssuccess and just kind of
(11:42):
centering community.
Grace (11:44):
Definitely that community impact is really big right and
making sure that people feelheard.
So for me it's success when Ihave residents coming up to me
and saying that they want toparticipate in our city, that
they have ideas and they feelempowered to share them with me.
That's a huge, huge part of it.
When I first started on thecity council, we often didn't
(12:06):
hear from certain communitiesand then, once I got on because
my connection to Palm Springs isvery different than the rest of
the council we started to hearmore of those voices and people
would just come up to meprivately and say they were
interested in serving oncommissions or getting involved
more.
And so for me that's a big partof our success.
And for the city, what successis?
(12:28):
Making that impact and makingsure that everyone feels like
they have a place in PalmSprings, that everyone has a
safe place to live, that theyhave quality work that they're
able to do and just feel welcomein the city.
And I think that we're makingreally good strides to get there
for everyone.
Jace (12:45):
Y'all will actually be welcoming me to the city in
March.
My best friend and his husbandlive out there, and so I'll
actually be coming to PalmSprings To visit y'all.
Yeah, it's a great town.
Kristelle (12:56):
Yeah, and myself in April I was telling Jace I was
like I landed and I saw theairport and I'm going wait
what's going on and it was verywelcoming and so mission
accomplished from an aviationperson.
Jace (13:10):
Yeah, I would say I love the Palm Springs airport.
However, and because I have you, my best friend travels in and
out of there a lot often and hewas just saying this very
morning that the internetconnection in the airport is not
ideal and goes who do I talk toabout this?
And I'm like I don't know, butI got these ladies in front of
me so I'm going to just throw itout there.
Eric, I got you, brother.
Grace (13:32):
So we're actually doing a whole airport master plan.
So the entire airport is beingrenovated and expanded.
So that's what's going to leaveyou Wi-Fi?
Ok, see me using my fame tohelp my friends.
Jace (13:42):
So that's, I'm getting in there.
You guys do love community somuch.
It's such a big part of yourlives and your connection to the
city and to the community.
How did that play a role inyour work with the Caravan Surai
project there and do you wantto explain a little about it?
It's such a cool project.
Lauren (14:01):
Yeah, I'd love to so Visit.
Greater Palm Springs is therepresentative for the tourism
and hospitality industry acrossthe Coachella Valley.
Palm Springs is actually partof a nine city valley and we
really wanted to support smallbusinesses and particularly
underserved entrepreneurs to bea part of that thriving tourism
(14:24):
and hospitality landscape.
So we partnered with CaravanSurai Project and they're a
nonprofit that provides businesstraining and access to capital
to underserved entrepreneurs andwe sponsored a cohort of 30
Spanish-speaking entrepreneurswith small businesses in the
ecosystem and really wanted tobroaden what a hospitality
(14:44):
business is.
So six of our businesses werechild care businesses, because
we know that access toaffordable child care is really
a barrier to our workforce.
So we worked with them tosupport this cohort with
training and, again, access tocapital and a network.
And we had a wonderful showcaseevent at the Palm Springs Art
Museum.
(15:04):
Grace had the city councilprovide a proclamation.
She came and spoke and theentrepreneurs were so touched
and humbled by her presencethere and saw her as
inspirational as the firstLatina mayor, the first Latina
council member of Palm Springs.
And the city of Palm Springs iscontinuing their engagement
(15:24):
with Caravan Surai Project.
Grace (15:26):
We are.
So the city is now working withthem directly to impact the
Northern part of our city, wherewe have a large Black and
Latino population, and we'retrying to work with them to
provide some moreentrepreneurial resources for
them as well.
We have a lot of people whosell food out of their homes,
and a lot of other people in thecommunity don't know about it.
(15:47):
It's really just theirneighbors.
So how do we help them toestablish broader businesses?
We have someone who does taxesin our community but has to rent
space from a nearby cityinstead of in Palm Springs.
How do we help him?
There's lots of differentpeople we've already identified
who could use these resources,and so now Caravan Surai is
(16:08):
going to go in and really workwith them.
Kristelle (16:10):
Well, when I get there in April, I'd really love
to sit down and learn about howyou all did that, because one of
the things that Jace and I weretalking about beforehand is
that we're starting to see thecommon threads that New Mexico
has versus Palm Springsdifferent in many different ways
, but similar.
A lot of the challenges thatyou're trying to solve is a
challenge that we're trying tosolve here in New Mexico, so I'd
(16:32):
love to compare notes.
But one of the things that wasfascinating that I can hear
about in this project, caravanSurai, is that, and also in your
bio and this question is forGrace you have the opportunity
to leave Palm Springs.
Same thing with you, lauren,and I know that you came back
and in New Mexico we have thischallenge of the brain drain,
(16:55):
the brain drain being peopleleave the area and then they
either come back we call themreturn descenders because
they're coming back to mom ormultiple times or multiple times
, yeah right, or they decidethat they stay in their
community because they know thatthey can make differences in
their communities.
So the golden question that Ihave based off your bio, based
(17:16):
off of the project on CaravanSurai why did you decide to stay
, grace?
As a Latina, that is constantly.
I know that we don't know eachother deeply yet, but it seems
like you're constantly goingagainst the grain with a lot of
the challenges of a communitythat doesn't quite embrace DEI
quite yet and you're being onthat forefront, right.
(17:36):
So why did you decide to stayin Palm Springs?
Grace (17:41):
Well, I did leave Palm Springs, so I lived in
Washington DC for quite sometime and then I came back.
But I always knew I wanted tocome back and I wanted to be
able to really represent thecommunity that I knew in Palm
Springs.
And watching there be a shiftin the community, having a lot
more people come in and retirethere and really kind of be at
(18:06):
the forefront of leadership,made me realize that there were
voices missing.
It had been many years sincewe'd had anybody on the city
council that had grown up thereor had been living there for a
really long time, and so therewas this lack of connection to
the people that I knew.
I didn't know wealthy people.
I grew up in a pretty modestbackground and the people I knew
(18:31):
were hospitality workers, theywere maintenance workers, they
were janitors, they were doingservice work, and I didn't feel
like their voices were beingrepresented as well as they
could be.
And so much of that is justthat connection.
When you don't know anybody inthese leadership roles, you
don't even know who to go to.
Are they even going to care?
(18:54):
And it really takes a level ofprivilege, I think, for people
to feel like they can reach outto their city council member and
that their city council memberwill then listen.
So for people who are incommunities that don't generally
have those connections, it canbe hard for them to even take
that step to feel like, oh,you're working for me, right.
(19:16):
So for me it was a big part ofmaking sure that I was
representing all of the voicesin Palm Springs and really
asking the question who's nothere?
The same people often come toour meetings and their voices
are important as well, but it'slike who's not here and what do
they have to say?
And sometimes that means goingout and doing that work to be
(19:39):
near those folks and just askthem directly what it is that
they want or need.
Kristelle (19:43):
Well, owen, I think what's really powerful too and
I'll toss it to Jayce here in asecond for you, lauren but what
I think is really powerful inwhat you said is I'll never
forget the first Asian citycouncilor that just got
appointed, maybe three years agoduring the pandemic, and the
city has been around since it'sat least 300 years old.
(20:04):
And as long as you see somebodythat looks like you that's
leading the charge and I thinkwhat you said was very powerful
you feel like you have to have asense of prestige or you have
to have a place at the table.
Where you're saying is or atleast from my interpreting, is
as long as you see somebodythat's up there, you don't have
(20:24):
to force yourself to the way tothe table.
I think that's incrediblypowerful.
Jace (20:30):
Well, and it sets an example as well or even you
saying that you're checkingwho's not here.
As a woman, especially, myfirst career was in a very male
dominant.
I was often the only woman inthe room.
Nobody asked, hey, are wemaking sure that your opinion is
being included?
Nobody was looking out for me.
So I kind of feel tearful justhearing that question who's not
(20:52):
here?
And that there are peoplethinking that way and working
that way and asking thosequestions because there are so
many that are not representedand it's scary when no one looks
like you to speak up.
So to have women like you inthese amazing positions is so
encouraging and, lauren, I knowyou in across the world.
Grace (21:12):
And then you came back.
Jace (21:15):
What did you discover while you were away and how have
you incorporated that withregard to sustainability and DEI
coming back into Palm Springs?
Lauren (21:26):
Yeah, I had the good fortune to have been born in
Palm Springs but also livedabroad From a young age.
My dad was in hospitality,lived in Indonesia, singapore,
south Africa, switzerland,london so so lucky.
And more recently, I was anexecutive director of a project
in Eastern Indonesia.
It was a hospitality school forunderprivileged young people
(21:49):
that had a really strongsustainability footprint.
Grace visited me there and itwas a real joy for her to
experience that and it wasreally life changing for me to
be there and the lessonsactually that I learned on this
small island in EasternIndonesia about community, about
not making assumptions, aboutwhat everyone wants and asking
(22:12):
the community's opinion aboutwhat works for them.
I took that back to Palm Springswith me and in 2019, I ran
Grace's campaign and it was agrassroots, community-based
campaign and those lessons thatI learned in Indonesia I brought
(22:32):
back.
Every voice matters.
We knocked on so many doors, wemade so many calls and we were
able to get Grace elected.
Grace and I have met each otherwhen we were 13 or 14.
So I came back to Palm Springswhen I was a freshman in high
school and she was one of theonly people in my school in the
(22:56):
school that cared about mytravels.
She had a curiosity for theworld and for the experiences I
had, and she'd always beenincredibly just, brave and
courageous and was a voice forthose that weren't heard.
So when it full circle comingback in 2019, when she was like
I want to run for city council,she's like yes you've been
(23:17):
preparing for this your wholelife.
We've been preparing for this.
We're going to do it and we'regoing to use all the lessons
we've learned along the way tomake it happen.
Incredible.
Kristelle (23:27):
I rarely get speechless.
That's true, and that is so coolto see a sisterhood of
leadership between the two ofyou and who became the advocate
for I mean, in our last episodewe talked about diversity,
(23:51):
equity and inclusion, andthere's the statistics that are
showing that a majority of thework force is by 2050, from the
Kellogg Foundation says that amajority of the work force is
going to be people of color.
And not only that, but when wecan shrink the racial gap, we
know that it can be more of anequitable society.
(24:12):
Shrinking the racial gap ispart of the economic development
strategies as we see forward.
So I guess, while I fumblethrough that idea, I think one
of the things that I'm hearingfrom you both is diversity,
equity and inclusion runs reallydeep between the two of you,
both from a public and privatepartnership and personal
(24:35):
partnership between the two ofyou.
So what investments, not onlyin a community like Palm Springs
, but for our listeners that areacross the globe what
investments do you think need tobe made in diversity, equity
and inclusion right now,especially when folks are
actually starting to take awaydiversity, equity and inclusion
(24:56):
and inclusion?
So, from a public perspective,from a private perspective, I am
curious about what yourthoughts are on that very
important topic.
Lauren (25:04):
DEI, just those three little letters, have become so
politicized.
But when you break it down andreally hone in on those values,
they're so crucial, so pivotalfrom a number of layers, right
From an ethical and moral layer.
It's the right thing to do.
But I think you know I workoften with the business
community.
But it's reminding about thebusiness case of DEI.
(25:27):
The more inclusive we are, themore welcome we are as a
destination.
That's more dollars on thetable, right, that's more money
for everybody.
But it does take an investmentof time, of resources to really
practically embed DEI inprograms like Caravan Survive
(25:47):
Project, right, it's not keepingit up in the blue sky of you
know, dei is a great thing.
But how do we really reallyrebalance inequity?
What investments from politicalside, from the city side, to
say and recognize it, recognizethat there are systemic
inequities?
How do we address them?
(26:08):
And you know I'm really proudto work for an organization like
VisitGrader Pump Springs thatinvested in a director level
position to move these reallyimportant issues forward and
puts their money where theirmouth is on a number of levels.
Grace (26:24):
Right, it makes such a big difference in our community
too.
Right, when you start toinclude everyone, when you're
making these active efforts tobring people in, that's when the
ideas get better.
Right, somebody bringssomething forward and it's new
and exciting.
And then there's somebody elsein the room that has a lot of
experience working on certainthings and they can implement it
(26:47):
.
I mean, we were just talkingabout the Rikotela Valley
Filipino Festival the other dayand it's so incredible and it
started off with an idea.
Right, I met some Filipino folksabout six years ago who said we
would love to do a Filipinoparty and we want to just get a
(27:08):
day together to just celebratebeing Filipino.
And I'm like, yeah, that's socool, I love that.
And it was really just an ideathat floated around for a solid
five years of people talkingabout it, throwing out ideas.
And then they got connected toa friend of ours, lauren Wolfer,
and she was like, oh, I cantotally make this happen.
(27:29):
And she did.
Right, she's not Filipino, she.
But she was just like I lovethis, this is a great idea and I
can help you get everyonetogether and make it successful.
And thousands of people camefor the first ever Filipino
festival, and so I think that'swhat happens when you just bring
people in and start talkingabout different ideas, but it
(27:51):
was an uphill battle.
I mean, there were people, theywere asking for funding from
people and they were like, isthis something that we really
want to invest in?
And then, thankfully, when I'min the room, I'm able to say, ok
, let me give you Filipino 101,right.
Because I grew up in PalmSprings with a large Filipino
community, with a best friend,that's Filipino right.
(28:11):
So I was able to say, likeFilipinos will travel for a
festival, like they will travelfor their people.
Like they travel for theirpeople.
But you know a lot of thepeople in this power decision
making room.
Kristelle (28:26):
They didn't know that right.
Grace (28:28):
And then they saw the event happen and they're like
whoa, this is amazing.
And I try not to say I told youso, but I say it a lot in my
head.
I tell people directly, but inmy head I'm like, well, yeah,
yeah.
Jace (28:40):
You're like well, what a shock, Isn't that interesting
that it turned out that way.
Kristelle (28:44):
But what's really cool is that you had an ally,
right Like an ally that wasn'tFilipino, that was help
advocating, which she will everbe known as like Tithalorin to
the Asian community 100%.
Jace (28:57):
So even like, as you're saying that and like bringing
new ideas and that, that can bevery exciting.
It can also be really scary orupsetting or frustrating, and
I'm even thinking about it'sgoing to be real talk here for a
minute, crystal, but I'll beworking on a project and she'll
throw an idea in, or hey, I'drather see it this way, or
whatever.
And sometimes I get reallyfrustrated with that.
I'm like I already have thisthing in mind and I have my
timeline set out and I've gotall this stuff and then I'll be
(29:19):
like all right, chill, jay's one, she's my boss, so I got to do
it anyway.
But also a ton of experience inthe industry and is usually
right, and so I'll be like allright, let me see if I can play
around that.
How can I make that my own,whatever, and it's always better
.
The collaboration always makesit better.
Even if my idea was cool in thefirst place, bringing someone
(29:39):
else on, I'm always like, ohokay, and you would think that
the next time I just go, boom,let's do this whatever you say,
I'm going to do it.
But there's something that makes, just like when you, when
something gets snow globed, it'sscary, and we talked about that
, like even you said, like thatyou know a little DIY, like, oh,
(30:00):
now everybody's freaking outand it's very upsetting to
people to hear that.
Diversity, equity and inclusionit's almost become a bad word
and something we discussed onthe last episode along with that
is that part of that, Itheorize, is just fear of change
.
Certainly the uncertainty ofwhat that means.
(30:20):
What does it mean for me?
Is that is it taking somethingaway from me?
Am I going to be in danger?
Things like that, and thatpeople don't necessarily know
how to incorporate that intotheir business, into their lives
, or what really being an allylooks like and what it entails.
And we left the conversationopen-ended.
We certainly don't have theanswers, but how can people be
(30:42):
consistent allies in this space?
Kristelle (30:46):
Especially in travel and tourism too.
Lorna, I'll kick it to you.
Like, we hear you know inmarketing, we hear tool kits and
guides and white papers of howwe can be more inclusive.
How do we honor black historywithout just the holiday itself,
or LGBTQ Mother Pride Month,Right, Like, how do we?
(31:07):
How do we honor pridethroughout the year?
So I'm curious to see howyou've guided a lot of the
tourism entities and visit PalmSprings and what was the how,
what was what did the checklistof how look like for you?
Lauren (31:19):
Sure, yeah, yeah, art.
You know Our team had beenthinking about inclusion for
years, pre 2020.
But 2020 was a flashpoint andwe wanted to be really
intentional about our pathforward.
We didn't just want to post ablack square, we wanted to
really do the work because, justto go back a step, our area,
(31:42):
thankfully, is known as a reallyprogressive and inclusive place
.
It's kind of in our DNA,particularly with the LGBTQ plus
community.
So our team at visit greaterpump springs actually enlisted a
consultant in the traveltourism DEI space called travel
unity, and they really workedwith us that.
You know.
It started with a survey of ofeveryone's sort of current
(32:06):
baseline feelings about how wewere doing with regards to DEI
and then moved into how do wethen embed these principles into
our systems and processes, justthe way we worked.
And that was internal and thenit's moving it externally.
How do we work with ourstakeholders to uplift what
they're doing with regards toinclusion and equity or help
(32:29):
them to do to do their DEIprograms a little bit better
with our resources?
But you know we have a bigresponsibility as a destination
marketing organization.
The images we project to theworld are seen globally and
those images can make peoplefeel welcomed or not.
(32:49):
So there's a realintentionality in our marketing
department about showing peopleof color, showing people of all
sizes, all sexualities, allidentities, because, again, it's
, if you don't see yourself here, you don't see yourself here.
So you can't envision yourselfin greater pump springs if you
(33:11):
don't see those images projected.
So I think there was a numberof ways we were looking at it,
but it's really about, I think,again, grounding Some of it's
not sexy right systems andprocesses.
How do we, how do we change avendor contract so that there's
a values alignment?
How do we eliminate barriers ordecrease barriers to working
(33:31):
with, with people fromunderserved communities?
So it's some of these thingsthat were the way we were
thinking of it, of creating thestrategy, both internally and
externally.
Jace (33:41):
Before we go to you, grace on, I just highlight those all
in one place for our listenersand ourselves as well.
There are professionals thatare already studying this,
working on it, they specializeit, they are for hire or for
giving guidance.
They exist, they're out theremore and more.
There are resources that areavailable as well to help with
all of these things.
Even first, specifiedindustries, like you just talked
(34:02):
about, people specifically haveresources for that.
Having a strategy in placethat's actionable, they're going
to follow through with is areally big part of the how.
And then recognizing not justthe moral but the economic
benefits of more, more people,more money right, that's just.
That just makes sense.
And the component of themthings get better and grace.
Kristelle (34:27):
I want to bring back the public part of the
conversation.
So, for my understanding, withworking with the city, that's
right.
The governments are reallydictating the contract for a DMA
vendor right, or working withthe DMA very closely to meet the
city's objectives.
So what do you see?
I know that obviously you guyswant to be friends.
(34:47):
If you didn't agree, this was areally good investment for your
city, right.
But what?
What are your expectations ofsuccess and having a more
inclusive DMA strategy?
Grace (34:59):
I think it's just something that's really
important to us on so manylevels, and there's just the
moral aspect of it of wantingpeople to be welcomed and seen
in our city, but it's it's also,it is just that exchange of
ideas, but we are finding thatthere's a lot of things that we
have to do to be better at itright.
So one of the things that'sgoing to be coming before our
city council soon is reviewingkind of our procurement policies
(35:23):
and how we choose vendors forour city, because we're finding
that, even though we have alocal preference, it's not
enough, because we're still notgetting our local businesses
actually doing the work that thecity needs to do, and that
means we're missing out on a lotof like women owned businesses
and and by pop owned businesses,because our valley is very
(35:45):
diverse and these contracts aregoing out to to San Bernardino
County or LA County becausethey're the lowest bidder.
But why are they the lowestbidder?
Because they have the mostaccess to resources.
Right, the Coachella Valleydoesn't have that same as same
access, so their prices aregoing to be a little bit higher.
But if we're contracting with avendor from the Coachella Valley
(36:06):
, we're re investing in ourcommunity and we're going to get
a higher quality of work,because the people that are
doing this, this, are our careabout this, the work that
they're doing in their community.
Right, so we have, but we had,we had to kind of realize that
why is it that we're not gettingthe people that we want to work
with us?
Oh, it's because the way ourpolicy is written right now, it
(36:29):
excludes people.
So let's make these changes sothat we can better reflect the
community and all of the workthat we're doing, even if it's
just, you know, something behindthe scenes, like the
maintenance that we that getsdone throughout the city.
Jace (36:45):
You countered an objection .
I was going to throw itstraight, because one of the
first things people say when youtalk about hiring local, going
with local vendors, it's tooexpensive.
And so what I'm hearing, if I'mhearing you correctly, is that
there's a multi part combo thatneeds to be happening here,
where there are resourcesavailable, where they don't have
(37:07):
to have their prices so high,where they're priced out of the
bid, and so it's not just on oneentity, like the business, like
you know, to just spend moremoney.
It's like no, there's otherthings behind the scenes that
can be happening to make thismore realistic, including
changing policies and procedures, and what I'm hearing is some
like really big barriers tosuccess when DEI is not
(37:31):
prioritized.
Have there been barriers inyour own lives or with some of
the people you've seen when DEIisn't?
Kristelle (37:39):
prioritized, yeah, or even stakeholders and Palm
Springs, like.
What are those?
What are the barriers youconstantly having to overcome in
the positions that you have?
Jace (37:48):
Yeah, towards success.
Grace (37:50):
Yeah, I think for me, it's often that people don't
necessarily value all types ofwork and we can focus so often
on what degree do you have?
Where did you get it?
And not enough on whatsomeone's lived experiences,
right?
So when we're looking forpeople to serve on our
commissions or even people towork with, it's like okay, let's
(38:11):
look at this whole person andsee what it is that they can
contribute, right?
I mean, I think of moms.
All the time, you know you havea mother who has several
children.
To me it's like she doesn'tneed to spell out that she's a
multitasker, right, she's amultitasker, right.
Jace (38:30):
A girl can get things done , all right.
Grace (38:32):
So it's making sure that we're thinking about how all of
our lived experiences impact thework that we're capable of
doing.
So sure, this mom may have beenout of the workforce for five
years helping to raise her smallchildren, but in those five
years she did a million thingsthat contribute will contribute
to her ability to execute on thejob that she's now applying for
(38:55):
, so it shouldn't exclude her.
And so I think a lot of thebarriers to success are often us
not taking that extra moment tosay, like, what are those
experiences that you've had thatcan add to this position?
And that's something that I tryto raise.
A lot on the council is likehow do we bring people in and
(39:18):
what are these otheropportunities that we have?
Lauren (39:21):
And we were talking earlier.
But you know you brought thisup at the cost of education and
the cost of bettering yourself,right, and what that takes if
you have a family already, ifyou're like a sort of
non-traditional student.
What are all these other piecesthat you have to think about?
And you know from a hospitalityand tourism lens, you know I
(39:42):
also work on workforcedevelopment.
You know one of our barriers isjust growing hospitality
leaders locally, ensuring thatwe're providing the skills and
the tools and the knowledge andthe professional development
opportunities for folks in ourvalley to take those high level
positions.
And that's about sustainabilitytoo, right, growing a
sustainable pipeline of trainedstaff.
(40:04):
And that again, valuing alltypes of work, not valuing lived
experience, but valuing alltypes of work.
Every position in thehospitality industry has value
In my eyes.
It takes bravery, you know,strength of character to be of
service to others.
We don't often frame it thatway, but it does.
(40:26):
Every position is valuable, soI hope we can continue to do
that.
Jace (40:33):
I know you touched on childcare as well.
Expense transportation, likethere's all of these things that
people who don't have that inplace maybe don't think about.
Kristelle (40:43):
And we're running out of time.
So I do want to ask a very boldbut very on-brand for story
success and stuff on thispodcast.
And I know that folks will beable to see you at the
Counselors Academy SpringConference in 2024 in Palm
Springs in April and again,we're so excited that you're
going to join us for that.
But this is a fun one.
(41:04):
While you do the fireside chat,I'd be curious to see if this
question does come up,especially as we have a
multitude of agency owners andsecond-in-commands, as we call
it.
On your final day this isChase's question.
Ok, so on your final day,interpret that as you will.
How will you know?
You lived a good life?
Grace (41:28):
Yeah, For me, I'll know I lived a good life if I've
invested in people, invested incommunity and really listening
to others, in valuing theirstories, their experiences and
taking those moments to reallyconnect with people, and it's
not just in a professional waybut in a fun way.
(41:49):
When I lived in Washington DC,I stood out as the Californian
because I never asked peoplewhat do they do for work.
I just asked them about whothey are and what do they like
to do for fun.
And I learned so much aboutpeople by not focusing on their
work or their school oreducation, but just you.
(42:09):
What makes you you, what do youlove?
And those relationships are soimportant to me.
So to know that I've had thesereally wonderful experiences
with people, that would make mefeel just at peace.
Lauren (42:28):
And I think it's why we're best friends.
We have a real curiosity andfascination with the world and
with people, and I really feelthe same way.
Community is such a big threadand the work that we do is so
important to us.
But it's our friendship, it'sour families, it's having fun
(42:49):
and having balance.
I don't think living a goodlife had a good meal and then
done a karaoke session Just thetwo of us, which we did last
Friday by the way.
Jace (43:00):
Good yeah, tell me where the karaoke bars.
Kristelle (43:03):
I need to join for this one.
Lauren (43:06):
So, yeah, it's balancing the work that we do with fun
and love and joy.
Kristelle (43:13):
Ooh, that's improved Well.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We are so, so, so honored tohave you.
For the insights, for thequality of the conversation and,
most importantly, if peoplewanted to get a hold of you or
find out more about the workthat you do, where do you
recommend that they can connectwith you online?
Grace (43:31):
Oh well, I'm Lee Wynn, with Grace on kind of every
platform, instagram et cetera.
Lauren (43:39):
My Instagram isn't very robust, so my email is probably
best Lauren b atvisitgreaterpscom.
Jace (43:48):
Wonderful and I'll include all of that in the description
as well and you can also visitin person.
Go to Palm Springs.
It's beautiful especially ifyou're in winter like we are,
Get to Palm Springs.
It's warm over there.
Earned.
March Me and April so thank youall so much, we really
appreciate it, thank you, thankyou.
Kristelle (44:04):
Thanks again to Grace and to Lauren for joining us,
and we hope that you will seethem at the Counselors Academy
Spring Conference in April inPalm Springs.
This is it for us, for Jasonand I, for Stories, success and
Stuff.
We hope that you're followingus on your favorite podcast, on
YouTube or on CRScom.
Thanks for joining us and we'llsee you in next time's episode
of Stories, success and Stuff.
We hope that you'll watch us.
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