March 28, 2024 • 38 mins
Join Kristelle Siarza Moon and Jace Downey for an insightful journey with Mike Utaegbulam, founder of Black Digital, as we delve into the nexus of digital marketing and diversity. Discover how representation fuels aspirations and learn how injecting empathy into strategies can drive success. From the origins of Black Digital as a side hustle to its evolution into a powerhouse agency, Mike's candid insights offer valuable lessons for us all.
Explore the key role of leadership in team growth and the challenges faced by minority-owned businesses in today's landscape. We celebrate cultural diversity while diving into both professional and personal experiences, including Mike's unexpected journey into bodybuilding!
Tune in for an engaging discussion that's not just about business but also about embracing inclusivity in every aspect of life.
Mike Utaegbulam
Founder & Creative Director, Black Digital
Mike Utaegbulam founded Black Digital in 2018 to address the widespread need for mission-based organizations to craft tailored digital marketing that optimally inspires their key audiences to act. He has consulted on digital marketing strategies and solutions for some of the reputed organizations in the country. His wealth of insights from 16 years of leading nonprofit and higher-education institutions have made Black Digital a thriving, change-making organization.
Learn more: https://blackdigitalgroup.com
@BlackDigitalGroup
A Siarza Production
Hosted by Kristelle Siarza Moon & Jace Downey
Executive Producer: Kristelle Siarza Moon
Producer: Jace Downey
Video/Editing: Justin Otsuka
Watch episodes at siarza.com/siarza-podcast
Follow us on FB, IG, TT, YT and TW @siarzatheagency
Follow Kristelle @kristellesiarza
www.misskristelle.com
Follow Jace @jacedowneyofficial
www.jacedowney.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristelle (00:00):
We had a really, really fantastic interview just
a couple of minutes ago.
Yeah, we are, as an agency, apart of the Change Agencies, a
group of multicultural andLGBTQ-owned businesses, agencies
, public relations agencies,public affairs agencies, latinx
(00:20):
agencies, black agencies, asianagencies and it was a really,
really big honor to meet andinterview the owner of Black.
Jace (00:30):
Digital.
I don't normally get nervouswhen I'm meeting people, because
I'm always like, oh, we're justgoing to hang out, they're cool
, I'm cool, it's going to becool.
After doing research on Mikeand Black Digital, I found
myself, like before thepre-interview, being nervous and
thinking like I'm so glad thatwe aren't meeting in person,
because if he shook my hand hewould find that it was like
sweaty, because I was nervous tomeet him, because he's so
(00:52):
awesome yeah.
Kristelle (00:53):
He's really cool.
Jace (00:54):
He's really cool and then just like super chill.
Kristelle (00:57):
So Mike Uteblem founded Black Digital, yeah, and
he became a part of the ChangeAgency's cohort last summer.
One of the things that I findthat I it didn't dawn on me
until the interview is that weall stories of success and stuff
.
We always talk about why.
What's a person's why?
What makes them successful?
(01:17):
What's the last thing that theywant to do before the their
days on earth have ended?
Mike's purpose in life isproviding purpose and impact to
others.
He said it in a more eloquentway, but I think that was one of
the things that we forget asmarketers, of why we do what we
(01:39):
do.
You included myself included,danielle, like anybody on this
team, like we're so used to thegrind, but it was really nice to
talk to him in a way where, yes, he's a black owned business,
but we talked to him about, like, the meaning of why he is an
agency owner and the why of hissuccess.
(02:00):
I thought that was so cool.
What were some of the thingsthat you found really
interesting about that ourlisteners can hear in just a
couple minutes?
Jace (02:07):
I think he's been really intentional with how he, as a
business owner, was going tomake impact in the community and
how he's going to use businessin order to create change.
And, though it might seem small, it's like, oh, it's just a
business, but it's not, becauseit actually changes what appears
to be possible for others and Idon't mean like, oh, that just
appears to be possible, I meanwhat is visibly possible to
(02:30):
others.
There's something about thoseof us seeing someone do
something that we've not seenbeen done before by somebody who
looks like us or someone whocomes from our neighborhood or
our background, and things likethat, and the ongoing impact of
that is incalculable.
Kristelle (02:46):
Yeah, and what I also took away from this is when we
talk about, you know, deliveringpositive social change in the
community through marketingdigital work.
I think one of the things thatwas really great about talking
to him that I'm excited for allof us to listen to here in a
minute, you know, some of thethings that he mentions is that,
yes, he's a digital marketingagency out of DC and they
(03:07):
deliver practical solutions, butthe success of his agency in
since 2020, it is metaphoricsuccess and one of the things I
didn't get to tell him is thatright now.
You know he talks about one biggoal.
I won't spoil it here in aminute, but the fact that he was
able to reach that goal in sucha short amount of time
(03:29):
exponential success doesn't comevery easily, and I appreciate
what lessons he shares withother folks on the show.
Anything else that you thinkthat might be helpful for the
listener in terms of enjoyingthis really great podcast
interview.
Jace (03:42):
We didn't touch on it a ton.
But something that I reallylove about his aim, and Black
Digital as well, is that theyreally went to create a space
and a specific avenue fornonprofits to have really
personalized marketing effortsthat were gonna utilize their
limited resources in respectfulways.
They're really big on empathyand deep listening and making
(04:06):
sure that they really understandthe client, the nonprofit,
their mission, their vision andthen bringing that into their
marketing PR efforts.
And when we're talking aboutsmall businesses or nonprofits,
those resources really arelimited and you don't have a lot
of room for trial and error theway a big company does, and he
has established a successfulagency with that openheartedness
(04:32):
in mind.
Kristelle (04:33):
Absolutely.
We're very excited to introduceMike Utablam from Black Digital
.
Well, first off, thank you somuch for being on the show.
Stories, success and Stuff.
You're actually, ironicallyenough, the first Change
Agencies member that's going tobe on the show, which that's our
(04:56):
common bond, right, yep, right,most definitely, and so I know
that you had a chance to meetJace, and I'm really excited
just to really dive into yourstory, your stories of success
and everything that you'veaccomplished.
I have nothing but such a highregard for you too.
(05:21):
One of the reasons why I was sofascinated to have you on the
show is that your agency, in thebeginning of February, put out
this incredible guide aboutthinking intentionally about
Black History Month and, beforewe get into that particularly,
(05:43):
what was the genesis of yourcompany?
It's one that I look up tobecause I say to myself I want
to be him in the future.
Jace (05:52):
And I mean that right.
Kristelle (05:53):
I want the company to look like you.
So how did you start BlackDigital?
What was the story behind it?
What was the genesis of it?
Mike (06:01):
Well, thank you for that.
It feeds my soul and it was anhonor for you to reach out and
have this platform to talk aboutthe business, so thank you.
But we started the business.
So I started the businessreally as a side hustle and so,
you know, I've been a designerby trade since college and I
(06:22):
just noticed that, you know,especially in the nonprofit
sector, these nonprofits do alot of good work but do a
terrible job of like marketingthemselves, and so I saw a very
quick market fit for an agency,but I never thought that it was
ever going to be full time,because I actually wanted to
work for another agency or go tothe corporate realm.
(06:43):
I actually wanted to work foranother agency or go to the
corporate realm and so, but it'sjust, you know, as you know,
nonprofit marketing experiencedoesn't necessarily translate to
big firms and so, started as aside hustle, registered LLC in
2018 after I moved to DC and Iactually went full time because
(07:05):
I was passed up for a promotionand was pretty upset, and my
mentor at the time, who I'vebeen working with for a while,
he said well, hey, if you are asgood as you say you are, then
start your own business, go fulltime into the business, and I
said say less, so I put myresignation in February 2020.
(07:26):
They wanted me to stay on tohelp with the transition and I
officially quit June 30th 2020.
And I always say this story itbecame real when I woke up in a
cold sweat on July 1st becausemy benefits were gone.
And so it was real.
Jace (07:45):
The ships have been burned .
Mike (07:47):
Benefits run out, it's like you're on your own.
But you know, by the grace ofGod, that job that I left became
my first client and they're aclient today, and that served as
the seed money to fuel oursuccess today.
And so you know, it all worksout.
It all worked out in the end.
Kristelle (08:04):
Well, and Mike, like what I remember when we first
met in Denver last year at thechange agency's like meeting of
the minds, if you will I heardthis story and I said to myself,
my God, he's got the samesimilar story as I like to the
cold sweat, but my mind was on aon an ex-boyfriend's couch.
I get it right, but I wanted tosay so.
(08:27):
That was then.
How big is your organizationnow?
How much revenue have yougenerated?
How many clients do you have?
How big is your team?
Can you talk about that for ahot minute?
Mike (08:39):
Yeah, sure, sure.
So we are a mixture offull-time, part-time and
contractor, and so we're atseven full-time, three part-time
, and then we have about 10contractors that we work with on
an as-needed basis, but we allconsider them team members.
So to me, the only differenceis the legality behind it.
But everyone is on the teambecause they're talented, is on
(09:11):
the team because they'retalented and um, we have about
10 clients.
So we have small clients butlike there's like web
maintenance and stuff like that,but like 10 major clients that
we work with on a day-to-daybasis and um.
Last year, you know, I had agoal from when I, when I started
it um, to cross a million um,and we crossed a million last
year in November and so yeah,thank you.
Thank you, it's a really biggoal.
Didn't think it was possibleuntil it became very clear that
(09:34):
it was going to happen, and itwas.
It was while we were at thechange agencies retreat last
year where I started saw therevenue, I said, oh, we could do
this.
And sure enough, we hit it inNovember.
Oh my God, Congratulations andthe type of clients that you're
working with are prettyincredible, correct?
Yeah, it's, it's the good.
The good news is is um we nowhave the luxury of saying no.
(09:56):
You know, when you first startout, you kind of got I mean, for
the most part, you have to takeand everyone want to keep
lights on.
But now we work with a lot ofum non-profits or even
corporations that are in socialequity and health equity, um,
and so we're able to createpositive change through the work
that we do um on the digitalmarketing side, and so it's very
(10:16):
rewarding work because itaffects the communities that we
live in.
Um and also, you know, we kindof become, you know many thought
leaders because of of we canspeak from a lived experience.
Jace (10:29):
Yeah, I'm hearing different milestones that y'all
have hit in the company.
I remember in my first companythat turning down the first
project that wasn't a good fitand I didn't want to take that
felt incredible and hitting themillion dollar mark as some
milestones and some goals.
How did you define success foryour company when you first
started out and has that shiftednow that you've been in
(10:50):
business for many years?
And how do you define successfor yourself as well?
Mike (10:56):
Yeah, so you know, as we talked about yesterday, the
success for the business as aCEO, it changes, right.
You know, sometimes successes Imade payroll, you know, like
that's a way, that's a major wayevery time, every time check
goes through for them, causeit's really important for them
(11:17):
to get paid on time, even if Ican't eat at the time I'm going
to say that's one of my favoriteparts as an employee.
Jace (11:22):
I'll just throw it out there at the getting paid part.
Yeah, very important.
Kristelle (11:29):
It's also the favorite part of a client
engagement is when we get paid,it's a win-win.
Mike (11:38):
But you know, success, you know, just from a managerial
perspective, I want everyone,every team member that walks
into this company, to leave as abetter professional, even if
they're only here for a fewmonths, if they're here for
several years, like we shouldhave developed you in a way that
makes you better for the nextcompany.
And that's a mission.
And so, you know, we do a lotof professional development, a
(11:59):
lot of stretch assignments, andit's just in a way that if we
give you something to do, it'sbecause we know that you can do
it, even if you can't see ityourself.
So just really developing thetalent and making sure that they
are good to go moving forward.
And then, on a personal,personal, you know, basis, I
struggle with that.
(12:20):
I, you know, I really I reallydon't like being the face of the
company, I'm very much a behindthe scenes type of person, and
so to me, success is, you know,my personal success is is seeing
this company win.
And then you know, really, youknow making an impact in those
lives of the, of the, the teammembers that we have.
Kristelle (12:39):
I think that's a really incredible story because
you've got the entrepreneurialmembers that we have.
I think that's a reallyincredible story because you've
got the entrepreneurial mindsetthat we see here throughout the
podcast.
Right, stories, success andstuff.
But one of the things that Iwhat I admire about you, what I
admire about your company andwhat I admire about
entrepreneurs like you that haveyou know, like I said, we have
similar starting points of wherewe began is the fact that, like
(13:02):
, we do some really great workin our separate own agencies.
I'm a big believer in upliftingcompetition or similar companies
like ours.
Like we're not.
We're not competition, but wedo the same things to a certain
degree.
Right, but how?
But the conversation becomesyou know, we have a common bond
(13:23):
of being in people of colorrunning agencies.
Right, very much the synopsisof the change agencies.
But has it been?
And I will tell you what weexperience at CRSA we stand out.
We don't look like our whitecounterparts, but we do good
work, we do better work, we doamazing work compared to our
(13:47):
counterparts, whether they beblack, hispanic, white, owned,
but we somehow stand out in thecrowd.
So that's my question to you isthat have you been told that
you stand out, or has it been anadvantage or a disadvantage?
We all know that's the truth insociety.
(14:07):
Like has it been an advantageor a disadvantage to be a person
of color running a digitalagency?
Mike (14:14):
In the post-George Floyd murder era.
It is an advantage in manyregards, just mainly because and
I'm also recognizing theanti-DEI attacks now which we're
seeing or rollback essentiallyto what the world looked like
before George Floyd.
But yeah, to me it's asuperpower.
(14:35):
I think when you have a cultureto you know, borrow knowledge
and expertise from that givesyou a superpower.
Because, if you see the data,minorities are becoming the
majority in America and everycompany has an initiative on how
(14:57):
they can essentially monetizethis ever-growing minority
majority.
And so I think we have thatsuperpower because, again, lived
experiences and it's somethingthat I lead with I mean, you
know me, I'm probably black, youknow everything.
Most of the things that I doare, you know, impacting the
(15:17):
black community in some way,whether it's this company or
what I volunteer on a personalbasis, and so it's something I'm
very proud of, and the name ofthe company is Black Digital and
so we lead with that.
But also there's a disadvantagehere of sticking out, because
sometimes people think that weonly work with Black-owned
(15:40):
companies or we only work withBlack-owned organizations, think
that we only work with blackowned companies or we only work
with black owned organizations,and it is true that some
companies earmark a smallpercentage of their marketing
budget to work with minorityowned agencies and leave the
bigger pot of money for whiteowned agencies, whether or not
they realize that they're biasedor not.
But this is a thing I mean,whether or not they realize that
(16:02):
they're biased or not, but thisis, this is a thing I mean in
the government marketing.
You have the 8a program, whichis five percent um, which is
dedicated to disadvantagedbusinesses, which you know this
is.
We're talking aboutminority-owned agencies or
companies.
But what about the 95 percent?
Why, why, why are we not ableto touch the 95 percent um and
why are we only relegated to 5%?
That is the disadvantage ofbeing minority-owned is, in a
(16:28):
way, you're pigeonholingyourself to smaller budgets,
smaller projects because ofperception and bias.
Kristelle (16:37):
Government.
Let me put a pin on thegovernment piece because you
opened up Pandora's box on thatconversation, especially as a
person that tried to apply for8A myself.
But I will tell you that whatwe've experienced too, there's
always a value add right.
Value add of experiences, valueadd of storytelling.
(16:57):
Forget a commentary thatsomebody said once was oh my God
, your team actually totallyunderstood LGBTQ marketing
because we have people that weregay, lesbian, trans, et cetera,
or we've gone through thosekinds of trainings.
So what value add has being aperson of color added to the
(17:19):
client experience of BlackDigital?
Mike (17:23):
Most of the campaigns that we work with are directly
impacting the Black community,and so, for example, we have a
client that is well, two clientsthat are looking to reduce or
mitigate the racial wealth gapthrough HBCU students and HBCUs,
(17:44):
or, historically, blackcolleges and universities, and
several of our team membersattended HBCUs, and so there are
certain nuances on how youcommunicate and work with these
organizations and even studentsthat if you didn't attend HBCU,
you wouldn't know.
You literally wouldn't knowthat, and I didn't attend HBCU,
but my team members like.
So, for example, I went about amarketing campaign in the same
(18:06):
way that I would talk to apredominantly white institution
PWI and I was quickly correctedby my team members who were HBCU
grads, saying that that's nothow you would communicate or get
in touch with students.
This is how you would do so,and so having that expertise and
lived experience just makes ourwork more impactful, and you
can see it in the data and theresults.
I mean we produce good workbecause, again, we are using our
(18:31):
lived experience.
Kristelle (18:33):
I'll say this too, like I appreciate you bringing
that up, right, because I'll usea perfect example of content
development.
Like I love music, listening tocontent with very vibrant music
, and like marching bands.
Perfect example, right.
You see, I know it soundsreally ridiculous.
Jace (18:50):
No, I have a very not ironic love of marching bands,
so I'm with you.
Kristelle (18:54):
But, like when you see the marching band history in
HBCUs, you look at the dancehistory of the band majorettes
in HBCU, like there's a lot ofrich history there that you're
right.
Like I did not go, or I meanUNM is so is struggling to be
marketed as a PWI when it'sreally not.
(19:15):
It's like mostly Hispanic ownedand operated and and, but at
the same time it's operatinglike a PWI but it also attracts
a community of color and youlook at HBCUs as a model example
of that.
But they're doing it sodifferently that it's just it's
so.
It's disruptive to the norm.
Like I appreciate you bringingthat up.
I think that's a.
That's a, that's a really solidpoint.
Jace (19:35):
So, speaking of content development, one of the things
that you've done is as an impactin the community is create
space for Black creatives.
Why was that important to you?
Mike (19:45):
Because I was the only, and if I had seven jobs before I
went entrepreneur, in six ofthem I was the only Black
employee.
I never talk about Blackcreative, just Black employee.
But you know I also grew up inFlorida, which is heavily white,
more so than people want toadmit and so one as a sole
(20:12):
creative is just hard.
I mean, sometimes you just needsomeone else to bounce ideas
off of just to make sure, like,you're working in the right
direction, and so that was tough.
So I always said I want to haveseveral creatives working
together in a collaborative way.
And then, um, the, the, thefinal job that I had, um, uh,
(20:34):
which is now our client, um, wasthe only company that I work
for where it was 95% black Imean it was obviously the CEOs,
black teams, black and um.
Being able to truly come in andbe yourself, you know, and not
have to explain certain thingsis an impactful experience.
(20:58):
I mean it showed me that I amnot crazy, and you know that
microaggression that I hadallowed to happen to me actually
wasn't okay, and so we wouldhave a lot of conversations
about, like you know, the GeorgeFloyd murder or Black Lives
Matter protests or policeshootings conversations that I
(21:20):
literally could not have otherjobs because it did not really
affect their community in theway that it directly affects me.
And so I wanted to duplicatethat experience in the company
that I owned.
And we hire all races, but thiscompany 90% Black.
I mean we are inclusive ofwhite, hispanic, lgbtq.
(21:41):
I mean we're diverse in thataspect, but majority Black.
And then you can feel it in theconversations that we have.
So it's similar to my old jobis we talk about the issues that
affect us have.
So it's similar to my old jobis we talk about the issues that
affect us, um, and you know,what I love to hear is is when
we are interviewing talent, um,they always say, hey, even if I
don't work with you all, I havenever seen a group of this many
(22:05):
black creatives in one space.
So kudos to you all, like, andthat to me, that that is success
is hearing that, because it'slike a reaffirmation that we're
doing the right thing here andwe're creating something really
special.
Kristelle (22:18):
You are doing, what people are trying to achieve.
And I do want to hit on asubject that it's a little off
script, but a colleague of minethat I would love to have on the
show.
His name is Mike Silva.
He's a black owned Black LivesMatter advocate in Albuquerque.
He actually created Berkay I'mtrying to blank, I'm blanking on
(22:44):
the name, I know, but it wasbasically an advocacy group
among brothers, right, blackbrothers about how you know, how
do you fight racism.
And one of the things he said tome once and I feel like I can
say this to you because youmight understand this, I
understood it in the Asiancommunity.
He said, all of a sudden,during Black Lives Matter
(23:06):
Crystal, I became the whitewhisperer.
People would talk about some oftheir challenges in
understanding the blackcommunity and, being a man that
has seen some majormicroaggressions and injustices
in his lifetime, he felt like hewas comfortable enough to talk
to the community about it.
Get this question a lot.
(23:27):
I'm curious your answer to thisquestion, which is how do you
hire a workforce that is diverse?
It seems like a simple question, but I have a lot of allies.
He gets a lot of allies I'msure that you do too, that are
saying, like how do you create amore diverse workforce?
What's your answer to that,since you've already
(23:49):
accomplished it?
Mike (23:50):
yeah, and I get that question quite often.
Um and, and my joke is is yousee somebody diverse, you hire
them.
It's, it's really that simple,right?
You know?
I think I think we, they makeit, these companies make it more
complex than it has to bebecause they're trying to please
, you know there's.
There's someone in the roomsaying why are we hiring this
person?
Is it because they're diverse?
Is it because they're trying toplease?
You know there's someone in theroom saying why are we hiring
(24:12):
this person?
Is it because they're diverse?
Is it because they're Black?
Is it because Latinx or becausethey're LGBTQ?
It's someone saying no and theyare pushing for yes and giving
and having to come up with extrareasons why I say yes.
And so I don't think there's nota lack of diverse talent.
(24:32):
It is an overabundance of it.
Especially in this remote worldwhere people can work from
anywhere, you have even moreaccess to more diverse talent
from around the world, and soit's really up to companies to
hire diverse talent and then beokay with the blowback that may
happen.
So it's just to me there's noexcuse.
(24:52):
I mean the blowback that mayhappen.
So it's just to me, there's noexcuse.
I mean the only excuses thatyou could have are um, maybe
they don't have pnl experience,or maybe they don't have big
agency experience, but you couldtrain, you could, you could
develop, and that that is yourjob as an employer is to develop
your talent.
And there's data that showsthat, especially on the
(25:13):
executive level, that diversecandidates are judged more
harshly than a white candidate,and that diverse candidate must
have more experience in certainareas that a white candidate
does not have to have.
And so I think it's just, weneed to just change the
narrative of if you really wantto become a colorblind society,
(25:38):
then your workforce should berepresentative of the American
makeup.
Jace (25:40):
Yeah, 100%, one of the things that I see here, even
with friends and things.
A buddy of mine, his name isMiguel, but if he's applying for
a job he puts Michael downRight and starts to make these
little shifts here and there,even in a predominantly Hispanic
community.
There there's still that goingon.
(26:01):
Are you seeing other businessowners in the community shining
who they are as brightly andgetting the benefits that you've
talked about as brightly andgetting the benefits that you've
talked about?
Or is some of that being hiddenor or tucked away with the fear
that that's still going to be ahindrance to them being brought
on as an agency or as adifferent type of business?
Mike (26:23):
Yeah.
So I see both.
I've worked with other agenciesand small, small businesses who
have literally said I want toremove any semblance of me being
black on the website.
So you know, which is sodisheartening to hear, right,
because I know exactly whatthey're going with this.
And I also had that self-doubtwhen I started because it's and
(26:46):
in my mind I'm like I don't wantsomeone to see that I'm black
and it automatically give me ano without having a conversation
.
But my pushback is they'regoing to find out anyway.
So you might as well lead withit.
It gives very much trying to geta better house appraisal or
higher house appraisal byremoving pictures of your Black
(27:11):
family appraisal, by removingpictures of your like black, you
know family, because the datashows that if people can
identify the race of the of thefamily that used to live there,
there's a different appraisalvalue.
But just just be.
Just be unapologetically you,because you don't want to bring
on someone that doesn't valueyour diverse background.
The worst thing you do is bringon someone that is hostile to
(27:35):
it and then now you let theminto your company, who will then
be hostile to your team Again.
So I think, as a leader, youjust have to protect your brand
and your team by bringing on theright clients.
Jace (27:46):
I thinking back on that.
I haven't thought of this inyears, but when I worked in
media production, people assumed, with the name Jace, that I was
a man through email anddifferent things.
And I let them because it didbring on a different amount of
authority, though it was alwayscomical.
I can think very specificallyof being in a coffee shop to
meet someone who was going topotentially bring on as a
(28:07):
contractor and getting a textlike hey, I'm here and I'm
trying to figure out who he.
And then I'm like, oh, I'm toyour left.
And he turns and just startstalking to the man sitting like
off on the left and I'm laughing.
I'm like, oh, this is fantastic, because he assumed I was a man
with Jace, which istraditionally a male name, and I
let him.
Until then it was like but itwas like surprise, and he did
(28:28):
have a problem working for awoman and if I had just been up
front and just authentically whoI am from the get go, we
wouldn't have had that problem.
He'd have filtered himselfright out by not coming on to
the project.
And so I thought at the timeand I was a younger business
owner at the time but that itwas a benefit to me, but it
absolutely wasn't, and bringingon clients and projects that
(28:54):
were excited to have a womanlead resulted in way better
relationships and in productsand things like that.
We're seeing a theme ofauthenticity and success.
Kristelle (28:59):
Yep, yep, yep, yeah, 100.
And the last question I'm goingto ask about your business, and
then we'll jump into the funpersonal stuff.
Are you seeing any new trendsspecifically in the communities
of color black-owned businesses?
Are you seeing any new trendsthat are applicable from a
marketing sense?
After all, we are a marketingpodcast, right.
(29:20):
So I wanted to see what aresome of the things that you're
seeing, or any advice or trendsthat you think that would be
applicable for communities thatare, or for businesses that are,
owned by Asians or Hispanics,latinx, like curious to see your
thoughts on some new trendsthat might be successful for
them.
Mike (29:38):
Yeah, so I'm actually giving a talk on this tomorrow
to Black-owned businesses at apanel in DC.
But digitization and AI it is amust-have at this point and
there has been a reluctance toparticipate in these measures
(29:59):
and participate in theseopportunities that AI and
digitization has brought, butit's a must.
You don't want to be like thecoal miners in West Virginia who
refused to evolve and now theyare in a dead industry and I'm
sure you've seen it where you'reat Albuquerque about like you
(30:21):
know folks that are in an oldindustry that is being rapidly
changed by data and AI, and soif you haven't taken a course or
sitting on a seminar about chat, gpt or how you use marketing
AI to help inform strategy, it'spast time, as a business owner,
to really get involved and tofigure out how that's going to
(30:41):
benefit your business and howyou can use it to help your
customers as well.
Jace (30:46):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
I talk a lot about that here aswell.
Kristelle (30:50):
Yeah, for sure.
So okay, so we're going gonnaget into the fun stuff really
quick.
Many people don't know thatmike is actually a competitive
body builder, which is?
You crushed it in your lastcompetition, okay, so how?
How did you get into this?
Why?
Jace (31:04):
did you get into this?
Those are always my questions,because that's hard.
Yes, it's a hard life, thatwith the nutrition and all of
the things, how and why.
And did you eat a cheeseburgerafter you won?
Mike (31:14):
I'm just kidding, oh listen, I always binge after
every show.
Um, my favorite go-to is um isactually chicken wings, and so I
don't care what city I'm in,we're gonna find the chicken
wing spot right after this.
Yeah, but I actually, you knowto be vulnerable.
I got into it to get over abreakup.
(31:38):
And so and this was like Istarted, like 2011, just like I
just needed to get my mind offof it, and so I signed up for a
gym membership, literally walkedinto the gym and said I need to
see someone who looks like Iwant to look like, and his name
is james um, and this is intampa, florida, and, um, I told
(31:58):
him what I was going through.
He was like, hey, listen, we'rejust going to work out three,
two, three times a week.
No go, you know, and we'll gofrom there and, um, I'll send
you the photo.
But after a year, you know, Ilet my body transform.
So I was actually skinny, um,before I started the gym, um,
working with him, and a yearlater, I put on all this muscle
and he was like, well, I used tobodybuild, I think you have a
(32:22):
potential, you should do it.
Um, and so, um, in 2011, I dida competition.
Um, didn't really know muchabout it, but entered it, got
fourth place, loved it, didn't,didn't visit it again until I
moved to dc and I hired anothertrainer and he looked at me.
He was like, hey, you're goingto compete.
(32:42):
He was like you have to do it.
And so, eight weeks later,hopped into another competition
and then got first place, um,and then, uh, second place
overall, and then, ever sincethen, I got a bug and then I
compete two, three times a yearand so, um, it is a huge
(33:03):
sacrifice and it's mainlybecause of the.
It's not working out is theeasiest part.
Like I can live the way it was.
It's the easiest.
It is the diet and then thestep away from the social life,
because you just have todedicate everything to it A meal
plan, a bodybuilding prep.
(33:23):
It can be anywhere from eightweeks to six months of like.
I need to measure all my macros, I have to work out at 6 am, I
have to come back and do cardiolater that night, sometimes two
days, and so I think everyentrepreneur has that thing like
, or this bodybuilding, or likeextreme racing.
It's always an extreme sport ofsome sort that every
(33:46):
entrepreneur is in.
That I've noticed, andbodybuilding just happens to be
mine.
Entrepreneurial is in, thatI've noticed, and bodybuilding
just happens to be mine.
Kristelle (33:56):
That's incredible.
So what lessons have youlearned from bodybuilding?
That are lessons that you'veused in your leadership or
management of your company.
Mike (34:00):
Yes, there's always a win and failure.
It's always, if you lookclosely, there's always a win or
a lesson in failure, and so youknow what they tell you.
In bodybuilding, all the timeis is that they give you the
speech and it's the same andit's they say, you have won by
showing up here and preparingover however many weeks and
months by it sounds like you'veheard.
(34:23):
Yeah, you've heard this all thetime or a winner, because the
worst thing to do is to go intothis show and and you're going
to have hundreds of losers, Imean essentially.
I mean you only have one winnerper category and the worst thing
to do is to to do all that work, to sacrifice all that time
with family, personal uh, tohave all that diet prep and all
(34:46):
that over the weeks and then tosay I've lost because I didn't
win this medal, I didn't winthis trophy, but really, like
you look better than mostAmericans and that is a win.
And also like you were able topush yourself and stay on an
agenda for a certain amount ofweeks for something that is
(35:08):
really trivial if you thinkabout it, and so there's a win
in that is discipline.
And so I think with as itrelates to the businesses, you
know, even if you know, on ourlower ends, if we get fired from
a client, hey, we were able toproduce this work and this level
of excellence that we can usefor something else in the future
, and so there's always, to me,there's always a win, it's
(35:30):
always a lesson in a loss.
Jace (35:32):
I'm hearing a part of success being that it comes in
the efforts, not the outcome.
That if you dedicate yourselfto the efforts and and can feel
proud of what you've done there,the success is already there
and then the outcome is whatit's going to be.
I like that.
Kristelle (35:49):
And potentially chicken wings.
Come on Now we have to go.
Whenever I see you next, wegotta go for chicken wings.
Mike (35:56):
If you tell me albuquerque has great chicken wings.
I will catch a flight and we'lluh, it's subject to.
Kristelle (36:02):
Well, okay, so I I will tell.
Actually, one of the best, uh,fried chickens or chicken places
is actually black owned here aA good friend of ours, ken.
I'll make sure when you come toAlbuquerque you'll meet him for
sure, so, okay.
So last question.
We're running out of timereally quickly On your final day
.
I don't know if Jason told youwe always have this classic
question to each one of ourguests, and so this is your time
(36:25):
to answer our classic question.
Mike (36:32):
On your final day.
How will you know that youlived a great life through the
impact I had on other people?
Um, that is, that is how I willknow that I've made it where
there's my you know employees,team members, you know guy, kids
, family, that I know that Ichanged someone's life, one
person's life.
This is everything me.
Kristelle (36:50):
That is an incredible answer and, mike, thank you so
much for being on the show.
I'm so grateful, so gratefulthat you're here and thank you
for taking the time with Jace.
She got to know you.
She's like he's awesome and Ithink it very much is.
And thank you for what you dofor this world.
Thank you for what you do forthis community, for your
employees, et cetera.
Thank you for being you.
We really appreciate it.
Jace (37:10):
Truly.
Thanks so much for being onwith us today, Mike.
Mike (37:13):
Awesome.
Thank you for the platform.
Kristelle (37:15):
What an incredible interview with Mike and
conversation.
It didn't really feel like aninterview.
It just felt like we were justcatching up.
Jace (37:22):
I could have hung out all day oh yeah, and now I'm hungry.
Right, I don't even eat chickenwings, but I don't know, justin
, where's some good vegan fakechicken in town?
I might need to get some later.
Kristelle (37:33):
It's called inclusivity right With the
chicken wings.
At any rate, thank you so muchto Mike and the entire team of
Black Digital for not onlygiving us some love on this
podcast, but also for those ofyou that have been watching us
from day one and also justjoined us on Story Success and
stuff.
Don't forget to subscribe to uson your favorite podcast
(37:54):
network or on YouTube and watchus on CRZcom.
This is Jace, I'm Crystal, andthanks again for another
fantastic episode of storysuccess and stuff.
We had a really, really fantastic interview just
a couple of minutes ago.
Yeah, we are, as an agency, apart of the Change Agencies, a
group of multicultural andLGBTQ-owned businesses, agencies
, public relations agencies,public affairs agencies, latinx
(00:20):
agencies, black agencies, asianagencies and it was a really,
really big honor to meet andinterview the owner of Black.
Jace (00:30):
Digital.
I don't normally get nervouswhen I'm meeting people, because
I'm always like, oh, we're justgoing to hang out, they're cool
, I'm cool, it's going to becool.
After doing research on Mikeand Black Digital, I found
myself, like before thepre-interview, being nervous and
thinking like I'm so glad thatwe aren't meeting in person,
because if he shook my hand hewould find that it was like
sweaty, because I was nervous tomeet him, because he's so
(00:52):
awesome yeah.
Kristelle (00:53):
He's really cool.
Jace (00:54):
He's really cool and then just like super chill.
Kristelle (00:57):
So Mike Uteblem founded Black Digital, yeah, and
he became a part of the ChangeAgency's cohort last summer.
One of the things that I findthat I it didn't dawn on me
until the interview is that weall stories of success and stuff
.
We always talk about why.
What's a person's why?
What makes them successful?
(01:17):
What's the last thing that theywant to do before the their
days on earth have ended?
Mike's purpose in life isproviding purpose and impact to
others.
He said it in a more eloquentway, but I think that was one of
the things that we forget asmarketers, of why we do what we
(01:39):
do.
You included myself included,danielle, like anybody on this
team, like we're so used to thegrind, but it was really nice to
talk to him in a way where, yes, he's a black owned business,
but we talked to him about, like, the meaning of why he is an
agency owner and the why of hissuccess.
(02:00):
I thought that was so cool.
What were some of the thingsthat you found really
interesting about that ourlisteners can hear in just a
couple minutes?
Jace (02:07):
I think he's been really intentional with how he, as a
business owner, was going tomake impact in the community and
how he's going to use businessin order to create change.
And, though it might seem small, it's like, oh, it's just a
business, but it's not, becauseit actually changes what appears
to be possible for others and Idon't mean like, oh, that just
appears to be possible, I meanwhat is visibly possible to
(02:30):
others.
There's something about thoseof us seeing someone do
something that we've not seenbeen done before by somebody who
looks like us or someone whocomes from our neighborhood or
our background, and things likethat, and the ongoing impact of
that is incalculable.
Kristelle (02:46):
Yeah, and what I also took away from this is when we
talk about, you know, deliveringpositive social change in the
community through marketingdigital work.
I think one of the things thatwas really great about talking
to him that I'm excited for allof us to listen to here in a
minute, you know, some of thethings that he mentions is that,
yes, he's a digital marketingagency out of DC and they
(03:07):
deliver practical solutions, butthe success of his agency in
since 2020, it is metaphoricsuccess and one of the things I
didn't get to tell him is thatright now.
You know he talks about one biggoal.
I won't spoil it here in aminute, but the fact that he was
able to reach that goal in sucha short amount of time
(03:29):
exponential success doesn't comevery easily, and I appreciate
what lessons he shares withother folks on the show.
Anything else that you thinkthat might be helpful for the
listener in terms of enjoyingthis really great podcast
interview.
Jace (03:42):
We didn't touch on it a ton.
But something that I reallylove about his aim, and Black
Digital as well, is that theyreally went to create a space
and a specific avenue fornonprofits to have really
personalized marketing effortsthat were gonna utilize their
limited resources in respectfulways.
They're really big on empathyand deep listening and making
(04:06):
sure that they really understandthe client, the nonprofit,
their mission, their vision andthen bringing that into their
marketing PR efforts.
And when we're talking aboutsmall businesses or nonprofits,
those resources really arelimited and you don't have a lot
of room for trial and error theway a big company does, and he
has established a successfulagency with that openheartedness
(04:32):
in mind.
Kristelle (04:33):
Absolutely.
We're very excited to introduceMike Utablam from Black Digital
.
Well, first off, thank you somuch for being on the show.
Stories, success and Stuff.
You're actually, ironicallyenough, the first Change
Agencies member that's going tobe on the show, which that's our
(04:56):
common bond, right, yep, right,most definitely, and so I know
that you had a chance to meetJace, and I'm really excited
just to really dive into yourstory, your stories of success
and everything that you'veaccomplished.
I have nothing but such a highregard for you too.
(05:21):
One of the reasons why I was sofascinated to have you on the
show is that your agency, in thebeginning of February, put out
this incredible guide aboutthinking intentionally about
Black History Month and, beforewe get into that particularly,
(05:43):
what was the genesis of yourcompany?
It's one that I look up tobecause I say to myself I want
to be him in the future.
Jace (05:52):
And I mean that right.
Kristelle (05:53):
I want the company to look like you.
So how did you start BlackDigital?
What was the story behind it?
What was the genesis of it?
Mike (06:01):
Well, thank you for that.
It feeds my soul and it was anhonor for you to reach out and
have this platform to talk aboutthe business, so thank you.
But we started the business.
So I started the businessreally as a side hustle and so,
you know, I've been a designerby trade since college and I
(06:22):
just noticed that, you know,especially in the nonprofit
sector, these nonprofits do alot of good work but do a
terrible job of like marketingthemselves, and so I saw a very
quick market fit for an agency,but I never thought that it was
ever going to be full time,because I actually wanted to
work for another agency or go tothe corporate realm.
(06:43):
I actually wanted to work foranother agency or go to the
corporate realm and so, but it'sjust, you know, as you know,
nonprofit marketing experiencedoesn't necessarily translate to
big firms and so, started as aside hustle, registered LLC in
2018 after I moved to DC and Iactually went full time because
(07:05):
I was passed up for a promotionand was pretty upset, and my
mentor at the time, who I'vebeen working with for a while,
he said well, hey, if you are asgood as you say you are, then
start your own business, go fulltime into the business, and I
said say less, so I put myresignation in February 2020.
(07:26):
They wanted me to stay on tohelp with the transition and I
officially quit June 30th 2020.
And I always say this story itbecame real when I woke up in a
cold sweat on July 1st becausemy benefits were gone.
And so it was real.
Jace (07:45):
The ships have been burned .
Mike (07:47):
Benefits run out, it's like you're on your own.
But you know, by the grace ofGod, that job that I left became
my first client and they're aclient today, and that served as
the seed money to fuel oursuccess today.
And so you know, it all worksout.
It all worked out in the end.
Kristelle (08:04):
Well, and Mike, like what I remember when we first
met in Denver last year at thechange agency's like meeting of
the minds, if you will I heardthis story and I said to myself,
my God, he's got the samesimilar story as I like to the
cold sweat, but my mind was on aon an ex-boyfriend's couch.
I get it right, but I wanted tosay so.
(08:27):
That was then.
How big is your organizationnow?
How much revenue have yougenerated?
How many clients do you have?
How big is your team?
Can you talk about that for ahot minute?
Mike (08:39):
Yeah, sure, sure.
So we are a mixture offull-time, part-time and
contractor, and so we're atseven full-time, three part-time
, and then we have about 10contractors that we work with on
an as-needed basis, but we allconsider them team members.
So to me, the only differenceis the legality behind it.
But everyone is on the teambecause they're talented, is on
(09:11):
the team because they'retalented and um, we have about
10 clients.
So we have small clients butlike there's like web
maintenance and stuff like that,but like 10 major clients that
we work with on a day-to-daybasis and um.
Last year, you know, I had agoal from when I, when I started
it um, to cross a million um,and we crossed a million last
year in November and so yeah,thank you.
Thank you, it's a really biggoal.
Didn't think it was possibleuntil it became very clear that
(09:34):
it was going to happen, and itwas.
It was while we were at thechange agencies retreat last
year where I started saw therevenue, I said, oh, we could do
this.
And sure enough, we hit it inNovember.
Oh my God, Congratulations andthe type of clients that you're
working with are prettyincredible, correct?
Yeah, it's, it's the good.
The good news is is um we nowhave the luxury of saying no.
(09:56):
You know, when you first startout, you kind of got I mean, for
the most part, you have to takeand everyone want to keep
lights on.
But now we work with a lot ofum non-profits or even
corporations that are in socialequity and health equity, um,
and so we're able to createpositive change through the work
that we do um on the digitalmarketing side, and so it's very
(10:16):
rewarding work because itaffects the communities that we
live in.
Um and also, you know, we kindof become, you know many thought
leaders because of of we canspeak from a lived experience.
Jace (10:29):
Yeah, I'm hearing different milestones that y'all
have hit in the company.
I remember in my first companythat turning down the first
project that wasn't a good fitand I didn't want to take that
felt incredible and hitting themillion dollar mark as some
milestones and some goals.
How did you define success foryour company when you first
started out and has that shiftednow that you've been in
(10:50):
business for many years?
And how do you define successfor yourself as well?
Mike (10:56):
Yeah, so you know, as we talked about yesterday, the
success for the business as aCEO, it changes, right.
You know, sometimes successes Imade payroll, you know, like
that's a way, that's a major wayevery time, every time check
goes through for them, causeit's really important for them
(11:17):
to get paid on time, even if Ican't eat at the time I'm going
to say that's one of my favoriteparts as an employee.
Jace (11:22):
I'll just throw it out there at the getting paid part.
Yeah, very important.
Kristelle (11:29):
It's also the favorite part of a client
engagement is when we get paid,it's a win-win.
Mike (11:38):
But you know, success, you know, just from a managerial
perspective, I want everyone,every team member that walks
into this company, to leave as abetter professional, even if
they're only here for a fewmonths, if they're here for
several years, like we shouldhave developed you in a way that
makes you better for the nextcompany.
And that's a mission.
And so, you know, we do a lotof professional development, a
(11:59):
lot of stretch assignments, andit's just in a way that if we
give you something to do, it'sbecause we know that you can do
it, even if you can't see ityourself.
So just really developing thetalent and making sure that they
are good to go moving forward.
And then, on a personal,personal, you know, basis, I
struggle with that.
(12:20):
I, you know, I really I reallydon't like being the face of the
company, I'm very much a behindthe scenes type of person, and
so to me, success is, you know,my personal success is is seeing
this company win.
And then you know, really, youknow making an impact in those
lives of the, of the, the teammembers that we have.
Kristelle (12:39):
I think that's a really incredible story because
you've got the entrepreneurialmembers that we have.
I think that's a reallyincredible story because you've
got the entrepreneurial mindsetthat we see here throughout the
podcast.
Right, stories, success andstuff.
But one of the things that Iwhat I admire about you, what I
admire about your company andwhat I admire about
entrepreneurs like you that haveyou know, like I said, we have
similar starting points of wherewe began is the fact that, like
(13:02):
, we do some really great workin our separate own agencies.
I'm a big believer in upliftingcompetition or similar companies
like ours.
Like we're not.
We're not competition, but wedo the same things to a certain
degree.
Right, but how?
But the conversation becomesyou know, we have a common bond
(13:23):
of being in people of colorrunning agencies.
Right, very much the synopsisof the change agencies.
But has it been?
And I will tell you what weexperience at CRSA we stand out.
We don't look like our whitecounterparts, but we do good
work, we do better work, we doamazing work compared to our
(13:47):
counterparts, whether they beblack, hispanic, white, owned,
but we somehow stand out in thecrowd.
So that's my question to you isthat have you been told that
you stand out, or has it been anadvantage or a disadvantage?
We all know that's the truth insociety.
(14:07):
Like has it been an advantageor a disadvantage to be a person
of color running a digitalagency?
Mike (14:14):
In the post-George Floyd murder era.
It is an advantage in manyregards, just mainly because and
I'm also recognizing theanti-DEI attacks now which we're
seeing or rollback essentiallyto what the world looked like
before George Floyd.
But yeah, to me it's asuperpower.
(14:35):
I think when you have a cultureto you know, borrow knowledge
and expertise from that givesyou a superpower.
Because, if you see the data,minorities are becoming the
majority in America and everycompany has an initiative on how
(14:57):
they can essentially monetizethis ever-growing minority
majority.
And so I think we have thatsuperpower because, again, lived
experiences and it's somethingthat I lead with I mean, you
know me, I'm probably black, youknow everything.
Most of the things that I doare, you know, impacting the
(15:17):
black community in some way,whether it's this company or
what I volunteer on a personalbasis, and so it's something I'm
very proud of, and the name ofthe company is Black Digital and
so we lead with that.
But also there's a disadvantagehere of sticking out, because
sometimes people think that weonly work with Black-owned
(15:40):
companies or we only work withBlack-owned organizations, think
that we only work with blackowned companies or we only work
with black owned organizations,and it is true that some
companies earmark a smallpercentage of their marketing
budget to work with minorityowned agencies and leave the
bigger pot of money for whiteowned agencies, whether or not
they realize that they're biasedor not.
But this is a thing I mean,whether or not they realize that
(16:02):
they're biased or not, but thisis, this is a thing I mean in
the government marketing.
You have the 8a program, whichis five percent um, which is
dedicated to disadvantagedbusinesses, which you know this
is.
We're talking aboutminority-owned agencies or
companies.
But what about the 95 percent?
Why, why, why are we not ableto touch the 95 percent um and
why are we only relegated to 5%?
That is the disadvantage ofbeing minority-owned is, in a
(16:28):
way, you're pigeonholingyourself to smaller budgets,
smaller projects because ofperception and bias.
Kristelle (16:37):
Government.
Let me put a pin on thegovernment piece because you
opened up Pandora's box on thatconversation, especially as a
person that tried to apply for8A myself.
But I will tell you that whatwe've experienced too, there's
always a value add right.
Value add of experiences, valueadd of storytelling.
(16:57):
Forget a commentary thatsomebody said once was oh my God
, your team actually totallyunderstood LGBTQ marketing
because we have people that weregay, lesbian, trans, et cetera,
or we've gone through thosekinds of trainings.
So what value add has being aperson of color added to the
(17:19):
client experience of BlackDigital?
Mike (17:23):
Most of the campaigns that we work with are directly
impacting the Black community,and so, for example, we have a
client that is well, two clientsthat are looking to reduce or
mitigate the racial wealth gapthrough HBCU students and HBCUs,
(17:44):
or, historically, blackcolleges and universities, and
several of our team membersattended HBCUs, and so there are
certain nuances on how youcommunicate and work with these
organizations and even studentsthat if you didn't attend HBCU,
you wouldn't know.
You literally wouldn't knowthat, and I didn't attend HBCU,
but my team members like.
So, for example, I went about amarketing campaign in the same
(18:06):
way that I would talk to apredominantly white institution
PWI and I was quickly correctedby my team members who were HBCU
grads, saying that that's nothow you would communicate or get
in touch with students.
This is how you would do so,and so having that expertise and
lived experience just makes ourwork more impactful, and you
can see it in the data and theresults.
I mean we produce good workbecause, again, we are using our
(18:31):
lived experience.
Kristelle (18:33):
I'll say this too, like I appreciate you bringing
that up, right, because I'll usea perfect example of content
development.
Like I love music, listening tocontent with very vibrant music
, and like marching bands.
Perfect example, right.
You see, I know it soundsreally ridiculous.
Jace (18:50):
No, I have a very not ironic love of marching bands,
so I'm with you.
Kristelle (18:54):
But, like when you see the marching band history in
HBCUs, you look at the dancehistory of the band majorettes
in HBCU, like there's a lot ofrich history there that you're
right.
Like I did not go, or I meanUNM is so is struggling to be
marketed as a PWI when it'sreally not.
(19:15):
It's like mostly Hispanic ownedand operated and and, but at
the same time it's operatinglike a PWI but it also attracts
a community of color and youlook at HBCUs as a model example
of that.
But they're doing it sodifferently that it's just it's
so.
It's disruptive to the norm.
Like I appreciate you bringingthat up.
I think that's a.
That's a, that's a really solidpoint.
Jace (19:35):
So, speaking of content development, one of the things
that you've done is as an impactin the community is create
space for Black creatives.
Why was that important to you?
Mike (19:45):
Because I was the only, and if I had seven jobs before I
went entrepreneur, in six ofthem I was the only Black
employee.
I never talk about Blackcreative, just Black employee.
But you know I also grew up inFlorida, which is heavily white,
more so than people want toadmit and so one as a sole
(20:12):
creative is just hard.
I mean, sometimes you just needsomeone else to bounce ideas
off of just to make sure, like,you're working in the right
direction, and so that was tough.
So I always said I want to haveseveral creatives working
together in a collaborative way.
And then, um, the, the, thefinal job that I had, um, uh,
(20:34):
which is now our client, um, wasthe only company that I work
for where it was 95% black Imean it was obviously the CEOs,
black teams, black and um.
Being able to truly come in andbe yourself, you know, and not
have to explain certain thingsis an impactful experience.
(20:58):
I mean it showed me that I amnot crazy, and you know that
microaggression that I hadallowed to happen to me actually
wasn't okay, and so we wouldhave a lot of conversations
about, like you know, the GeorgeFloyd murder or Black Lives
Matter protests or policeshootings conversations that I
(21:20):
literally could not have otherjobs because it did not really
affect their community in theway that it directly affects me.
And so I wanted to duplicatethat experience in the company
that I owned.
And we hire all races, but thiscompany 90% Black.
I mean we are inclusive ofwhite, hispanic, lgbtq.
(21:41):
I mean we're diverse in thataspect, but majority Black.
And then you can feel it in theconversations that we have.
So it's similar to my old jobis we talk about the issues that
affect us have.
So it's similar to my old jobis we talk about the issues that
affect us, um, and you know,what I love to hear is is when
we are interviewing talent, um,they always say, hey, even if I
don't work with you all, I havenever seen a group of this many
(22:05):
black creatives in one space.
So kudos to you all, like, andthat to me, that that is success
is hearing that, because it'slike a reaffirmation that we're
doing the right thing here andwe're creating something really
special.
Kristelle (22:18):
You are doing, what people are trying to achieve.
And I do want to hit on asubject that it's a little off
script, but a colleague of minethat I would love to have on the
show.
His name is Mike Silva.
He's a black owned Black LivesMatter advocate in Albuquerque.
He actually created Berkay I'mtrying to blank, I'm blanking on
(22:44):
the name, I know, but it wasbasically an advocacy group
among brothers, right, blackbrothers about how you know, how
do you fight racism.
And one of the things he said tome once and I feel like I can
say this to you because youmight understand this, I
understood it in the Asiancommunity.
He said, all of a sudden,during Black Lives Matter
(23:06):
Crystal, I became the whitewhisperer.
People would talk about some oftheir challenges in
understanding the blackcommunity and, being a man that
has seen some majormicroaggressions and injustices
in his lifetime, he felt like hewas comfortable enough to talk
to the community about it.
Get this question a lot.
(23:27):
I'm curious your answer to thisquestion, which is how do you
hire a workforce that is diverse?
It seems like a simple question, but I have a lot of allies.
He gets a lot of allies I'msure that you do too, that are
saying, like how do you create amore diverse workforce?
What's your answer to that,since you've already
(23:49):
accomplished it?
Mike (23:50):
yeah, and I get that question quite often.
Um and, and my joke is is yousee somebody diverse, you hire
them.
It's, it's really that simple,right?
You know?
I think I think we, they makeit, these companies make it more
complex than it has to bebecause they're trying to please
, you know there's.
There's someone in the roomsaying why are we hiring this
person?
Is it because they're diverse?
Is it because they're trying toplease?
You know there's someone in theroom saying why are we hiring
(24:12):
this person?
Is it because they're diverse?
Is it because they're Black?
Is it because Latinx or becausethey're LGBTQ?
It's someone saying no and theyare pushing for yes and giving
and having to come up with extrareasons why I say yes.
And so I don't think there's nota lack of diverse talent.
(24:32):
It is an overabundance of it.
Especially in this remote worldwhere people can work from
anywhere, you have even moreaccess to more diverse talent
from around the world, and soit's really up to companies to
hire diverse talent and then beokay with the blowback that may
happen.
So it's just to me there's noexcuse.
(24:52):
I mean the blowback that mayhappen.
So it's just to me, there's noexcuse.
I mean the only excuses thatyou could have are um, maybe
they don't have pnl experience,or maybe they don't have big
agency experience, but you couldtrain, you could, you could
develop, and that that is yourjob as an employer is to develop
your talent.
And there's data that showsthat, especially on the
(25:13):
executive level, that diversecandidates are judged more
harshly than a white candidate,and that diverse candidate must
have more experience in certainareas that a white candidate
does not have to have.
And so I think it's just, weneed to just change the
narrative of if you really wantto become a colorblind society,
(25:38):
then your workforce should berepresentative of the American
makeup.
Jace (25:40):
Yeah, 100%, one of the things that I see here, even
with friends and things.
A buddy of mine, his name isMiguel, but if he's applying for
a job he puts Michael downRight and starts to make these
little shifts here and there,even in a predominantly Hispanic
community.
There there's still that goingon.
(26:01):
Are you seeing other businessowners in the community shining
who they are as brightly andgetting the benefits that you've
talked about as brightly andgetting the benefits that you've
talked about?
Or is some of that being hiddenor or tucked away with the fear
that that's still going to be ahindrance to them being brought
on as an agency or as adifferent type of business?
Mike (26:23):
Yeah.
So I see both.
I've worked with other agenciesand small, small businesses who
have literally said I want toremove any semblance of me being
black on the website.
So you know, which is sodisheartening to hear, right,
because I know exactly whatthey're going with this.
And I also had that self-doubtwhen I started because it's and
(26:46):
in my mind I'm like I don't wantsomeone to see that I'm black
and it automatically give me ano without having a conversation
.
But my pushback is they'regoing to find out anyway.
So you might as well lead withit.
It gives very much trying to geta better house appraisal or
higher house appraisal byremoving pictures of your Black
(27:11):
family appraisal, by removingpictures of your like black, you
know family, because the datashows that if people can
identify the race of the of thefamily that used to live there,
there's a different appraisalvalue.
But just just be.
Just be unapologetically you,because you don't want to bring
on someone that doesn't valueyour diverse background.
The worst thing you do is bringon someone that is hostile to
(27:35):
it and then now you let theminto your company, who will then
be hostile to your team Again.
So I think, as a leader, youjust have to protect your brand
and your team by bringing on theright clients.
Jace (27:46):
I thinking back on that.
I haven't thought of this inyears, but when I worked in
media production, people assumed, with the name Jace, that I was
a man through email anddifferent things.
And I let them because it didbring on a different amount of
authority, though it was alwayscomical.
I can think very specificallyof being in a coffee shop to
meet someone who was going topotentially bring on as a
(28:07):
contractor and getting a textlike hey, I'm here and I'm
trying to figure out who he.
And then I'm like, oh, I'm toyour left.
And he turns and just startstalking to the man sitting like
off on the left and I'm laughing.
I'm like, oh, this is fantastic, because he assumed I was a man
with Jace, which istraditionally a male name, and I
let him.
Until then it was like but itwas like surprise, and he did
(28:28):
have a problem working for awoman and if I had just been up
front and just authentically whoI am from the get go, we
wouldn't have had that problem.
He'd have filtered himselfright out by not coming on to
the project.
And so I thought at the timeand I was a younger business
owner at the time but that itwas a benefit to me, but it
absolutely wasn't, and bringingon clients and projects that
(28:54):
were excited to have a womanlead resulted in way better
relationships and in productsand things like that.
We're seeing a theme ofauthenticity and success.
Kristelle (28:59):
Yep, yep, yep, yeah, 100.
And the last question I'm goingto ask about your business, and
then we'll jump into the funpersonal stuff.
Are you seeing any new trendsspecifically in the communities
of color black-owned businesses?
Are you seeing any new trendsthat are applicable from a
marketing sense?
After all, we are a marketingpodcast, right.
(29:20):
So I wanted to see what aresome of the things that you're
seeing, or any advice or trendsthat you think that would be
applicable for communities thatare, or for businesses that are,
owned by Asians or Hispanics,latinx, like curious to see your
thoughts on some new trendsthat might be successful for
them.
Mike (29:38):
Yeah, so I'm actually giving a talk on this tomorrow
to Black-owned businesses at apanel in DC.
But digitization and AI it is amust-have at this point and
there has been a reluctance toparticipate in these measures
(29:59):
and participate in theseopportunities that AI and
digitization has brought, butit's a must.
You don't want to be like thecoal miners in West Virginia who
refused to evolve and now theyare in a dead industry and I'm
sure you've seen it where you'reat Albuquerque about like you
(30:21):
know folks that are in an oldindustry that is being rapidly
changed by data and AI, and soif you haven't taken a course or
sitting on a seminar about chat, gpt or how you use marketing
AI to help inform strategy, it'spast time, as a business owner,
to really get involved and tofigure out how that's going to
(30:41):
benefit your business and howyou can use it to help your
customers as well.
Jace (30:46):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
I talk a lot about that here aswell.
Kristelle (30:50):
Yeah, for sure.
So okay, so we're going gonnaget into the fun stuff really
quick.
Many people don't know thatmike is actually a competitive
body builder, which is?
You crushed it in your lastcompetition, okay, so how?
How did you get into this?
Why?
Jace (31:04):
did you get into this?
Those are always my questions,because that's hard.
Yes, it's a hard life, thatwith the nutrition and all of
the things, how and why.
And did you eat a cheeseburgerafter you won?
Mike (31:14):
I'm just kidding, oh listen, I always binge after
every show.
Um, my favorite go-to is um isactually chicken wings, and so I
don't care what city I'm in,we're gonna find the chicken
wing spot right after this.
Yeah, but I actually, you knowto be vulnerable.
I got into it to get over abreakup.
(31:38):
And so and this was like Istarted, like 2011, just like I
just needed to get my mind offof it, and so I signed up for a
gym membership, literally walkedinto the gym and said I need to
see someone who looks like Iwant to look like, and his name
is james um, and this is intampa, florida, and, um, I told
(31:58):
him what I was going through.
He was like, hey, listen, we'rejust going to work out three,
two, three times a week.
No go, you know, and we'll gofrom there and, um, I'll send
you the photo.
But after a year, you know, Ilet my body transform.
So I was actually skinny, um,before I started the gym, um,
working with him, and a yearlater, I put on all this muscle
and he was like, well, I used tobodybuild, I think you have a
(32:22):
potential, you should do it.
Um, and so, um, in 2011, I dida competition.
Um, didn't really know muchabout it, but entered it, got
fourth place, loved it, didn't,didn't visit it again until I
moved to dc and I hired anothertrainer and he looked at me.
He was like, hey, you're goingto compete.
(32:42):
He was like you have to do it.
And so, eight weeks later,hopped into another competition
and then got first place, um,and then, uh, second place
overall, and then, ever sincethen, I got a bug and then I
compete two, three times a yearand so, um, it is a huge
(33:03):
sacrifice and it's mainlybecause of the.
It's not working out is theeasiest part.
Like I can live the way it was.
It's the easiest.
It is the diet and then thestep away from the social life,
because you just have todedicate everything to it A meal
plan, a bodybuilding prep.
(33:23):
It can be anywhere from eightweeks to six months of like.
I need to measure all my macros, I have to work out at 6 am, I
have to come back and do cardiolater that night, sometimes two
days, and so I think everyentrepreneur has that thing like
, or this bodybuilding, or likeextreme racing.
It's always an extreme sport ofsome sort that every
(33:46):
entrepreneur is in.
That I've noticed, andbodybuilding just happens to be
mine.
Entrepreneurial is in, thatI've noticed, and bodybuilding
just happens to be mine.
Kristelle (33:56):
That's incredible.
So what lessons have youlearned from bodybuilding?
That are lessons that you'veused in your leadership or
management of your company.
Mike (34:00):
Yes, there's always a win and failure.
It's always, if you lookclosely, there's always a win or
a lesson in failure, and so youknow what they tell you.
In bodybuilding, all the timeis is that they give you the
speech and it's the same andit's they say, you have won by
showing up here and preparingover however many weeks and
months by it sounds like you'veheard.
(34:23):
Yeah, you've heard this all thetime or a winner, because the
worst thing to do is to go intothis show and and you're going
to have hundreds of losers, Imean essentially.
I mean you only have one winnerper category and the worst thing
to do is to to do all that work, to sacrifice all that time
with family, personal uh, tohave all that diet prep and all
(34:46):
that over the weeks and then tosay I've lost because I didn't
win this medal, I didn't winthis trophy, but really, like
you look better than mostAmericans and that is a win.
And also like you were able topush yourself and stay on an
agenda for a certain amount ofweeks for something that is
(35:08):
really trivial if you thinkabout it, and so there's a win
in that is discipline.
And so I think with as itrelates to the businesses, you
know, even if you know, on ourlower ends, if we get fired from
a client, hey, we were able toproduce this work and this level
of excellence that we can usefor something else in the future
, and so there's always, to me,there's always a win, it's
(35:30):
always a lesson in a loss.
Jace (35:32):
I'm hearing a part of success being that it comes in
the efforts, not the outcome.
That if you dedicate yourselfto the efforts and and can feel
proud of what you've done there,the success is already there
and then the outcome is whatit's going to be.
I like that.
Kristelle (35:49):
And potentially chicken wings.
Come on Now we have to go.
Whenever I see you next, wegotta go for chicken wings.
Mike (35:56):
If you tell me albuquerque has great chicken wings.
I will catch a flight and we'lluh, it's subject to.
Kristelle (36:02):
Well, okay, so I I will tell.
Actually, one of the best, uh,fried chickens or chicken places
is actually black owned here aA good friend of ours, ken.
I'll make sure when you come toAlbuquerque you'll meet him for
sure, so, okay.
So last question.
We're running out of timereally quickly On your final day
.
I don't know if Jason told youwe always have this classic
question to each one of ourguests, and so this is your time
(36:25):
to answer our classic question.
Mike (36:32):
On your final day.
How will you know that youlived a great life through the
impact I had on other people?
Um, that is, that is how I willknow that I've made it where
there's my you know employees,team members, you know guy, kids
, family, that I know that Ichanged someone's life, one
person's life.
This is everything me.
Kristelle (36:50):
That is an incredible answer and, mike, thank you so
much for being on the show.
I'm so grateful, so gratefulthat you're here and thank you
for taking the time with Jace.
She got to know you.
She's like he's awesome and Ithink it very much is.
And thank you for what you dofor this world.
Thank you for what you do forthis community, for your
employees, et cetera.
Thank you for being you.
We really appreciate it.
Jace (37:10):
Truly.
Thanks so much for being onwith us today, Mike.
Mike (37:13):
Awesome.
Thank you for the platform.
Kristelle (37:15):
What an incredible interview with Mike and
conversation.
It didn't really feel like aninterview.
It just felt like we were justcatching up.
Jace (37:22):
I could have hung out all day oh yeah, and now I'm hungry.
Right, I don't even eat chickenwings, but I don't know, justin
, where's some good vegan fakechicken in town?
I might need to get some later.
Kristelle (37:33):
It's called inclusivity right With the
chicken wings.
At any rate, thank you so muchto Mike and the entire team of
Black Digital for not onlygiving us some love on this
podcast, but also for those ofyou that have been watching us
from day one and also justjoined us on Story Success and
stuff.
Don't forget to subscribe to uson your favorite podcast
(37:54):
network or on YouTube and watchus on CRZcom.
This is Jace, I'm Crystal, andthanks again for another
fantastic episode of storysuccess and stuff.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.