February 12, 2024 • 34 mins
Eccentric yet unforgettable characters, hilarious banter that just won't quit, and true love (or twu wuv!) are just a few of the things that make William Goldman's, The Princess Bride, a delightful fare. Join the discussion as we analyze the wit, the warmth, and the way that Goldman enchanted audiences with this odd yet stirring bestseller.
Moderated By: Micah Leydorf
Question: what is a story that has changed your life?
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Episode Transcript
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Micah (00:02):
Welcome to the Stories That Change Us podcast.
I'm Micah Leidorf, and I am herewith my writer friends, Laurel
Thomas, Kat Lewis, MelissaGrace.
And on this fifth episode, weare talking about everybody's
favorite, the Princess Bride.
Now, the Princess Bride is alittle bit different because The
(00:27):
movie adaptation was vastly morepopular than the book, but I
mean, a lot of us may not evenknown.
Oh, wait, that was a real book,right?
Kat (00:37):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, it's a little bit of aninteresting story because it's
kind of, not only is it, oh,wait, there's a real book, but
then the book is a pretendadaptation of a longer book
that's actually fictional, so itgets a little bit convoluted,
but I've loved the book, I mean,I've loved the movie forever,
and I've never read the book, sothis was my first time to read
(00:59):
it.
How about you guys?
Same.
Melissa (01:01):
Same.
Yes.
Micah (01:03):
Okay, so none of us had actually read the book before.
No.
Okay, well, what were your firstimpressions?
Kat (01:08):
I mean, I walked into this with a distinct feeling of dread
because I remember, somebodydistinctly telling me that the
Princess Bride is boring.
And once I, once I kind ofacclimated myself, I actually
thought that I was reading thewrong book.
For the first like 15 pagesbecause there's so much story
(01:28):
set up of, you know, like theauthor and he was never
impressive in school and then hewrites this book and this was
the book that his dad wasreading I legit was like, did I
freaking buy the wrong, this isa 25 dollar incorrect copy.
Micah (01:45):
And well, you can't believe everything everybody
tells you, especially when theysay something's boring.
It reminds me of those one starreviews of like the Grand Canyon
or, you know, it's like, really?
Like they thought the PrincessBride was boring?
What did they want?
Seriously, seriously.
How about you, Laurel?
What were your firstimpressions?
Laurel (02:04):
Well, from a novelist's point of view, I thought, this
is tropey, tropey, tropey.
Micah (02:10):
Oh my goodness.
Laurel (02:12):
Yay, because tropes are good.
And he's like unashamed with histropes.
Kat (02:19):
Just throwing them in there.
Laurel (02:20):
Oh, it's just so lovely.
The more the better.
Micah (02:22):
Okay, Laurel, you're using some literary jargon
there.
For our non writer listeners,can you tell us what is a trope?
Laurel (02:30):
So a trope is like a universal.
It's a, it's a universalemotional appeal.
So, you know, the dashing youngman who lays down his life for a
damsel in distress, that's atrope.
Like, um, and Fezzik, you know,the giant.
(02:52):
Well, we love him, but why do welove him?
Because he's a trope.
He is a big guy who doesn'tthink that he has a brain and he
ends up saving the day.
And you know, they're, they'refun, but as many as you can get
into your novel, it brings auniversal emotional appeal.
Micah (03:12):
Awesome.
Well, thank you for explainingthat.
Part of what we do here atStories That Change Us is we
kind of dissect these storiesthat we love.
We have this visceralattraction, right, to Princess
Bride.
I mean, I love that, it's,there's something for everyone,
right?
Like, I think it's great.
My girlfriends think it's great.
But I can show it to my, like,my little eight and Seven year
(03:36):
old boys and they love it.
And now they're 17 and 18 andthey still love it.
So it's great to like kind ofdissect and find out, okay, what
exactly is it about thesestories that is appealing to us?
So, you Melissa have not yetshared your first impressions.
We got Kat's and Laurel's buthow about you Melissa?
Melissa (03:55):
I had just a little minute where I was like, okay,
are Florin and Guilder Are theyreal?
Kat (04:03):
Oh, my gosh.
Micah (04:05):
You're probably not the only one, but it's brave of you
to admit it
Melissa (04:09):
was like, you know, there are little countries in
Europe.
that I'm unfamiliar with It wasjust, it was just a flash.
It was just, it was there.
I have to admit, it was there.
Kat (04:22):
In your defense, Melissa, the author really does kind of
prep you like, you know, talkingabout like, this is a fictional
retelling of an actual fictionstory that some, you know,
Slavic author wrote.
I really was like.
I need to go back and look at myEuropean maps from like the
1950s.
Laurel (04:40):
Well and you don't read fantasy much.
Melissa (04:43):
No, I don't.
Micah (04:44):
Yeah.
Laurel (04:44):
Because it has, you know.
That's right.
Fantasy has a feel.
Melissa (04:48):
I'm very easy to fool.
Good to know.
Micah (04:51):
Good to know.
I feel like that's part of theappeal.
I feel like it's like, oh, okay,it's tongue in cheek.
We're not really sure whichparts we're supposed to take
seriously and which parts he'slike, Laughing with us.
It's that's part of the fun ofit, right?
Kat (05:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Laurel (05:08):
Whimsical.
Micah (05:09):
Yes.
Yes.
It's very whimsical.
It's very whimsical.
Well, here at Stories ThatChange Us we do like to have our
few questions we ask every weekand the first one of those is
for favorite quotes.
Now, okay, my goodness, likepretty much a lot of us probably
can quote the entire PrincessBride practically, so the whole
movie is like, or the wholemovie, I say movie, the whole
(05:29):
book is like the movie, soquotable.
So I'm, I'm curious to see if wehave any repeats.
You want to go first, Laurel?
Laurel (05:36):
I do.
Okay.
So this is not highly original,but it comes with a very sweet
story.
So the whole as you wish.
So when...when you write, uh,romance, it's nice to have,
like, a little phrase, acatchphrase that is very unique
and personal to that love story.
(05:58):
So, my husband and I were goingthrough a really hard time.
I cannot remember what it was,but it was terrible.
And he looked at me one morningand he said, if you run away,
take me with you.
I told him, I was like, it'sgoing to show up in a story.
(06:19):
Because it was like that.
Okay.
He could have said, I love you.
Don't run away.
But.
But the way he said that was alittle, it's become like a
little catchphrase for us thatit shows not only the depth of
his love and, and that, youknow, it's enduring love and
(06:39):
that, you know, even if I run,he will come with me.
So I think the whole, as youwish, repeated over and over is,
is a really, it's a literarydevice.
Micah (06:52):
It's very clever.
Laurel (06:53):
It's very, catchy, but it also communicates a lot.
Okay.
Micah (06:58):
All right.
Kat can you beat that?
I mean, she's got the sweetstory in there.
Kat (07:02):
I know.
I know.
Man.
Micah (07:04):
What was your favorite?
Kat (07:06):
Don't, don't put so much pressure on me.
So if we're looking at a quotethat, either like reveals like
author's voice or characterdevelopment, I, this whole book
is quotable.
Like, I had to really stopmyself when we finally got into
the story.
I really had to stop myself fromjust like writing down all these
(07:27):
little zingers because, Goldmanis so, so great about.
Finding the different way toexpress love or displeasure or
sass, it just ripples throughthe book.
But the quote that stood out tome as far as a great example of
this author's voice is, this istowards the very beginning of
the book when Buttercup iswalking through the village and
(07:48):
she's trying to figure out.
The village girls just likeeminent dislike of her,.
And finally, she goes up to oneof the girls and she's like,
Hey, what's the deal?
We used to at least becourteous, but now like you guys
are rude.
And the girl's response wassomething to the effect of,
you've taken all of theirattention.
And Buttercup replies with this.
(08:10):
She said,"I don't need her toexplain who them is.
Them is the boys, the villageboys.
The beef witted, featherbrained, rattle skulled, clawed
pated, dim domed, Noodle Noggin,Saff Headed, Lunk Knobbed Boys".
(08:30):
And I loved that because I waslike, if you didn't know what
kind of ride you were in for inthis novel, I thought that that
quote was an awesome example ofthe author's voice.
And he's like, If you thoughtthis was a serious love story.
Oh, oh, oh, contraire, right?
Like, buckle up.
Micah (08:51):
Okay.
Well, I guess we didn't need toworry about having the same
quote as that.
I don't, I don't think I know.
Kat (08:59):
That's not one of the top 10.
Micah (09:01):
Needless fear, needless fear.
Okay, Melissa, how about you?
Melissa (09:04):
Mine is kind of obscure also because I love when, when
writers, screenwriters on our TVshows, you know, police
procedurals or whatever, whenyou can very efficiently develop
character and, Buttercup'sparents.
I feel like he developedButtercup's parents just so,
(09:27):
beginning of a chapter.
"Quick, quick, come! Buttercup'sfather stood in his farmhouse
staring out the window.
Why?
This from the mother.
She gave away nothing when itcame to obedience.
The father made a quick fingerpoint.
Look, you look, you know how.
Buttercup's parents did not haveexactly what you might call a
happy marriage.
All they ever dreamed of wasleaving each other".
(09:51):
So in just a handful ofsentences, he has told that and
he goes on to give tallies oftheir arguments.
At one point he says, um, Thiswas their 33rd spat of the day.
This was long after spats and hewas behind 13 to 20, but he had
made up a lot of distance sincelunch when it was 17 to 2
(10:13):
against him.
So in just a few words.
Yes.
The, the author tells us so muchabout their relationship.
That's right.
Micah (10:25):
I see.
This is why I like hanging outwith you ladies, because you
know, you just bring so muchinsight, you know, that's one of
the things that, you don't pickup normally in the stories.
So I am much more conventionalin my choice of quotes.
So like I say, I actuallybrought a few because I was
afraid that you guys might havechosen one and you didn't choose
(10:46):
any of them.
So I'm going to go with, the onewhenever Wesley and Buttercup
are about to enter into the fireswamp and, he says,"Just a few
steps more and we'll be safe inthe fire swamp.
And she said, we'll neversurvive.
And he said, nonsense, you'reonly saying that because no one
ever has".
(11:06):
And I just love it.
There's so many quotable quotes,but it's just, he's this witty
banter, this, this, you know,comedic timing, just like you
say, it's, it's got everything.
I think it's like encapsulateskind of the movie that has
everything.
It has romance, it has action,it has comedy.
So like, who doesn't love all ofthat?
So that's, that was my quotethat I just love because it
(11:29):
encapsulates for me, like thewhole.
I keep calling it the movie, thebook.
So actually
Melissa (11:36):
We did love the movie first.
Micah (11:37):
Right.
Right.
And actually I was so surprised.
I had no idea really what toexpect.
I'd heard the book was good, butthis book brought so much joy to
me in reading it.
It was just, it was a reminderof like.
the pleasure of reading.
Yes, we love, we love a movieand you know that's two hours
and we can laugh, but a book youjust kind of get to sit in it
(12:02):
and ruminate and actually it wassuch, such a pleasure to see how
the movie got it perfect, how ittook the You can speak up, Kat.
Kat (12:11):
No, no, no, no.
I know.
No, no, no.
I just, um, you know, I wasintroduced to the movie first,
and I really came in with alittle bit of dread, mainly
because I had heard that it wasboring, and I was like, how can
it live up to the movie?
And in fact, having read thebook, I have some criticisms for
how the movie, like, they leftout the parents.
(12:31):
They left, they, I canunderstand maybe some of their
choices as far as charactercasting and all these things,
but I would have loved to haveseen a far more sinister Prince
Humperdinck.
And, you know, like some ofthese things that you really get
in the book and that you get tosit with in the book.
And I, we kind of chose this,you know, our next two novels
kind of off the cuff.
(12:52):
And I had to remind myself, Kat,you cannot go back and reread
that passage for the third time.
Like you, you've got stuff todo, girl.
So just like, This is a novelthat you just enjoy sitting
with.
Yes.
Yes.
Micah (13:05):
Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, um, this is, so we have ourquestions that we normally ask
in every podcast, but this is alittle bit different because
again, we don't always havethis, such a strong movie
adaptation.
So do you want to explore thatanymore about other differences
between the movie and the book?
Cause most people will be morefamiliar with the movie.
So were there anything else,anybody?
(13:26):
Wanted to bring up regardingthat.
Kat (13:29):
My biggest issue is with Prince Humperdinck, but, I think
we'll get into that with some ofthe other questions.
So
Melissa (13:36):
I actually feel like that.
They did do a good job with thecharacters, the things that you
do get to dive deep in thenovel, seeing that, you know,
Buttercup is not sharpest knifein the drawer or whatever.
And also, you know, there's,let's see.
And, um, Fezzik, you know, his,his attitude toward himself,
(14:00):
like you were talking about, notseeing, it's like just the
little glances that we see ofthe characters in the movie, I
feel like they did do a good jobgiving us at least the flavor
for, you know, I remember, Iremember, you know Robin Wright
having like a confused look onher face a lot and things like
that and that, you know, that,
Kat (14:22):
Yeah, I, I love a good villain.
Right.
And so I feel like.
for the other characters, maybelike getting a hint of that
flavor was okay and in some ofthe characters, I would say in
Wesley and Fezzik and Inigo andthe Sicilian, and I can't
remember what his name is.
I think he did a fantastic jobwith those, but Prince
(14:42):
Humperdinck was, he had thisbrutality about him that I
understand why they probablythought we're just going to
pluck that out of a familyfriendly novel, but I think that
he, You know, I think that.
So in the movie we get a verycunning, rich, privileged, like
privileged, rich boy, PrinceHumperdinck in the movie.
(15:03):
But in the book, he's this likebeefy, barreling.
Strong, vile hunter who he'svery okay with all you see is
the six four barrel chested, youknow, jock, but he really, he's
like, no, no, no, there's,there's a whole noggin up here.
(15:24):
And I think that.
The juxtaposition that we getwith some of the other
characters, we didn't get withPrince Humberdink in the movie.
So that's my, that's my, that'syour little input.
Micah (15:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Great.
Well, um, the next question wehave is to identify a moment in
the story that you felt stoodout with visceral relief and
explain what storytellingtechniques help that to be a
successful scene.
So does anybody feel reallystrongly about a particular
scene and the storytellingtechniques that helped it to be
(15:57):
as successful as it was?
Melissa (15:59):
I actually loved the scene, where Buttercup is, after
the first time that the countand the countess come to the
farm and the countess is makinggoogly eyes at Wesley and she's,
in her room and she saysButtercup went to her room, she
(16:20):
lay down and closed her eyes andthe countess was staring at
Wesley.
And she.
Got up and it goes on about, andshe closes her eyes again, the
Countess is still staring atWesley and just, I thought it
was very well written for, justan anxious female who has seen
(16:41):
her, you know.
Laurel (16:43):
Well, it forced a decision on her part.
Right.
So it made it effective.
Melissa (16:48):
Right.
It made it effective, but alsoit was that, that sense of
everybody.
I mean.
Who hasn't had a moment of justkind of nuttiness here.
I am confessing again, butnuttiness, you know, thinking
about the boy they like, orsomething like that and seeing
them looking at somebody elseand imagination just go on.
Kat (17:09):
And yeah, no, I think that that scene was really great.
Because, um, you think about inthe modern world, how we're
introduced to sexual tensionbetween the opposite sex at a
really early age, I actuallyreally love seeing how this very
sheltered person is workingthrough the fact that she's
like, Oh, wait, maybe I am.
(17:30):
Why is it that the Countessstaring at him is like,
bothering me and like, and Iguess with his shirt off, he
does look kind of nice.
And like, just like a veryinnocent mind's what getting to,
Oh, I think I do kind of likehim, you know?
And I, I thought he executedthat so so well.
Melissa (17:48):
Well, what I took from it was just how her mind just
keeps.
you know, going, going, going,spinning, spinning out of
control.
And that, he took that veryspecific thing and I felt like
he made it universal, likesomething we can all relate to
of anxiety and letting somethingkind of get out of control in
(18:13):
your head or whatever.
Or maybe it's just me.
Micah (18:16):
No, I think that's a great observation, Melissa.
Like you said, he took thatline.
You know, the Countess was stillstaring at Wesley, like, okay,
that's not universal, right?
We've never seen a Countess bestaring at the boy that we had a
crush on in junior high.
But you, like you said, you tookthat thing, but then you're
like, oh, but we have seen inour heads where we can't stop
thinking about something and wejust, you know, illustrate.
Kat (18:39):
Yeah.
And I'll say, I think that whatthe author does really well in
that scene and what this authordoes really well in the book,
and it's kind of what youtouched on, Laurel, his use of
repetition is flawless.
Like he, he kind of knows whenit's too much as, as you wish.
Right.
But like, you know, when it'slike, when Wesley says it, you
(19:00):
know, it can mean, I love you.
It can mean, of course, my dear,he has made this very simple
phrase nuanced in it'srepetition and even in that
scene that you're talking about,Melissa, he uses that same
phrase, like to kind of keep themomentum moving forward.
Micah (19:16):
I mean, talk about repetition.
Like my name is Amiga Ventura.
Yeah.
Kat (19:20):
And let's talk about like the power that these things have
in the plot, right?
So it goes from, you know, myname is Inigo Montoya, you know,
it goes from this introductionand it keeps building in
suspense until we finally haveour moment of glory, right?
Where his name goes from anintroduction to a threat by the
(19:43):
time we get to to plot momentum.
And so just talking about, like,I think that's one of the things
that I learned and took awayfrom.
Micah (19:50):
Oh, good.
Good.
Good.
Well, that kind of leads us tothe next question, which is what
truths about society or thehuman experience are explored or
confirmed or challenged in thisnovel.
So what are some of the truthsabout the human experience?
That you guys picked up,
Kat (20:10):
I mean, I'll be honest.
I really struggled with thisquestion because it's so
Melissa (20:15):
You made up the question, Kat
Kat (20:19):
It's so whimsical know, like with other things we can
find truths with gone with thewind and with outlander and
Pride and prejudice, but Ithought princess Bride
Micah (20:29):
It's not true love?
Kat (20:33):
No, actually.
Laurel (20:34):
That was a great scene.
That was a great scene.
Kat (20:37):
No, Micah, thanks.
No, it's not true love.
Actually, what I thought, andwhat came to mind immediately
was, excellence.
And how each of these charactersin their tropiness, right?
They're all the best of thebest.
Yeah.
And yet, because they're thebest of the best, it creates
(20:58):
some isolation from the rest ofsociety.
You think about Inigo, whobecomes such a great swords
master, he becomes so bored withlife, he turns to alcohol,
right, to kind of bring somepizzazz.
Fezziki's this giant.
He doesn't fit in anywhere.
You know, the Sicilian andwhatever his name is.
Melissa (21:14):
Um, Vizzini,
Kat (21:16):
Vizzini, Vizzini is a, he's a hobbled genius, right?
Um, even like PrinceHumperdinck, he's the best
hunter in the world.
So good.
The fifth most beautiful woman.
There was such an emphasis onbeauty here.
I was like, what is going on?
But so you think about like howtheir excellence kind of it
(21:36):
isolated them from the quoteunquote, normal people, and
there was something that wasn'tfulfilled in their lives until
they came into contact with eachother.
And the lesson that I kind oftook away from this was, you
know, in a modern Western world,we're not really concerned with
excellence.
And we're not really concernedabout, like, what is that one
thing that I, that I want to beknown as the best in, but also
(21:59):
recognizing that where they felldown was a lack of community.
So, you know, I can be the bestthriller author out there, but I
don't need to be writing in acloset by myself.
There's no reason for that,right?
So choose what I want to beexcellent in and then go find my
people because my people are outthere.
Hmm.
Laurel (22:19):
That's true.
Thank you, Kat.
Micah (22:21):
Well, leave it to Kat to come up with, with the, the
truth.
I did not come up with that andI'm sure I also struggled with
that question a little bit likeyou say it's it's really obvious
in some stories it's like reallyI thought this was all about
comedy does it have to have agreat truth right but I kind of
(22:42):
thought it led into the nextquestion which is what aspect of
the craft of writing was doneexceptionally well in this book?
Um, and I think.
That actually it's that communalexperience.
I think that's what's sowonderful about this book.
Like, you know, C.
S.
Lewis says famously, we read toknow we're not alone.
(23:05):
And so, you know, yes, booksconnect us with people in the
past.
But in this case, this book is astory really is a communal
experience like the joy of thisbook is again how it combines
all those elements so that wecan all quote it to each other.
So that we can all sit and shareit with our kids after we shared
it with our sweetheart after weshared it with our parents.
(23:28):
And so that's what he doesexceptionally well is he gives
us this communal experience thatwe can all enjoy together.
And I think they're so it's sorare.
It's so rare to find somethinglike that.
Laurel (23:41):
Um, I love that.
And I think too, that as far asin life, sometimes our, our
relationships that connect usare like totally unplanned.
They appear to have justhappened.
You know, and yet we don't wantto ever underestimate the fact
(24:01):
that some of those chancemeetings can be like the richest
part of our lives.
I mean, they develop intorelationships that take us
through hard times or funnytimes or happy times, which is
lovely.
Micah (24:16):
Absolutely.
So friendship, actually, thatwould be a good truth, right?
Like you said, to find yourpeople, to find your tribe, to,
how about you, Melissa?
Melissa (24:25):
Well, I actually answered the question.
I actually found something inthe, in the book.
So Buttercup, she's out on herride right before she gets
kidnapped.
She is thinking"Everyone hadtold her since she became a
princess in training that shewas very likely the most
beautiful woman in the world.
Now, she was going to be therichest and most powerful as
well.
(24:46):
Don't expect too much from life,Buttercup, Buttercup told
herself as she wrote along,learn to be satisfied with what
you have".
So you can have everything, butif you don't have the one thing
you want, which was true love.
Kat (24:59):
True love.
Melissa (25:01):
My writer mind went back to that.
I can just see him going backand saying, okay, I have to set
up Buttercup's need.
I have to set up what, and youknow, like going back to that
scene and saying, okay.
What does she want?
What is she thinking about here?
Kat (25:22):
So, well, and let's talk about, I think that this leads,
leads into the fourth questionas far as like, what did we.
What storytelling technique didwe learn or were introduced to?
I think he does such a great jobabout taking a tropey character,
such as the flawlessly beautifulwoman and making her relatable
in a way that really surprisesus.
(25:43):
So he sets Buttercup upimmediately as a girl who really
doesn't care about her looks.
Even though we get thiscountdown, you know, she's the
52nd most beautiful woman ever.
Only when Wesley leaves, doesshe start like combing her hair,
like only when Wesley leaves,does she start like bathing,
like what?
And so in this moment, Melissa,that you're talking about where
(26:05):
she's like, be content with whatyou have.
Compare Buttercup to Cinderella.
Buttercup's over here like, Imean, I'm gorgeous and I'm
getting ready to be a princess.
I'm gonna be rich and peoplelove me, right?
Compared to Cinderella, who'slike, I'm over here scrubbing
these floors and I would, Iwould literally probably kill
somebody to be in Buttercup'sposition.
(26:25):
But the author makes Buttercup.
Her trope, very surprising byhaving this girl who's almost
like, she's like, if I couldjust have Wesley back, I would
give all of this up.
Right.
Right.
And so I relearned the power ofincorporating tropes, but
flipping them on their head soit's surprising and makes that
trope relatable.
Micah (26:43):
Yeah, that's another, I mean, he does so many things so
well, but that's a good exampleof, he makes this.
This dumb, super beautiful womanmakes, us root for her.
That's really hard.
How did he do that?
Wow.
Melissa (26:56):
Yeah.
What I feel like I learned isthat there is so much power in
surprise.
And it's late in the book andthey're on the, the revenge and
Wesley's people are trying to,to save them and, and Princess
Buttercup says, we have morethan hope, Buttercup said, there
(27:18):
is true love, Princess Piercesaid.
You work your side of the streetand I'll work mine.
I love it so much because it is,it's just like, you know, here
we are, she's in fairytale modeand true love, you know, and he
(27:39):
just comes with this cynicism.
It, it, it just worked.
It works really well to, likeyou said, turn things on their
head.
Micah (27:47):
So again, if we're going to talk about, you know, again,
the skills that he demonstratesin this like witty banter, he's
taken it to another level, hemay have the Olympic gold medal
in witty banter.
Kat (27:59):
I would give him the Olympic gold medal because from
moment one with the parents, Ireally genuinely was like, you
know, we talk about this idea ofwriting characters.
With such a strong voice thatyou can remove the dialogue
tags.
I'm like, this is probably thefirst book that I have read ever
where I'm like, take awayeverything that's not dialogue
and I know exactly who's talkingright.
(28:21):
And do you think he, and he doesa really great job of creating
expectation of what you think isgoing to come out of their
mouth.
And then just when you're like,okay, here comes Wesley with his
very like short clip sardonicresponse.
And then he does somethingtotally random and you're like,
what?
And it's brilliant.
I, it William Goldman, go aheadwith your bad self.
Micah (28:45):
Okay, well, I think it's time for one of our favorite
features of character roulette.
So this is where we put all thecharacters in a little basket
here, and then we pull one outand we talk about that
character.
So we've got, oh, Wesley, we'vegot Princess Buttercup, we've
got Prince Humperdinck, we'vegot Magic Man Max, Fezzik,
(29:08):
Sicillian Indigo, Um, so who arewe going to pull out of here?
And it is
Laurel (29:17):
Fezzik!
Micah (29:17):
Fezzik!
Kat (29:18):
Fezzik! Alright!
Micah (29:19):
Okay, well we talked about him a little bit already,
and who would have thought thathe's who we would have pulled
out?
Laurel (29:25):
Well, we've talked about Buttercup, and we've talked
about Wesley,
Kat (29:30):
Yeah, let's talk about Fezzik as like a character who
is like a change engine for thestory.
Laurel (29:38):
He is.
He is.
And again, he doesn't expectthat about himself.
And, and his strength, he makesit funny, you know, as far as
like he carried all three ofthem and they jump out of the
window.
He just said, jump out of thewindow one by.
One at a time, because I can'tcatch you if you all shoot at
(29:59):
once.
But I mean, like, I'll, I wouldtry and he would die trying.
So he's really a heroic guy.
Micah (30:08):
Well, when we go back to the truths explored here, I
think one of them that, I mean,yeah, it's hard to know because
everything is so tongue incheek.
You're like, okay, well, what ishe really saying here?
But I think loyalty is actuallypretty strongly,
Kat (30:22):
Yeah,
Micah (30:23):
illustrate in and espouse and you know, I mean, again, we
have with Buttercup and Wesleyboth saying like seriously No,
I'm not gonna take a prince.
I'm not gonna take anybody elseThis is my one person.
But then also like Fezzik, youknow It's like an indigo and all
these people you have all thesedifferent groups where they just
show loyalty to one another.
So I think that Fezzik reallydoes show that that loyalty and
(30:46):
also again kind of these humanvalues are what You know, give
our lives meaning whenever wehave character and we stay true
to the things that we believeare valuable.
Kat (31:02):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
I am.
I think one of the values thatFezzik exhibits as a character
is the value of belief.
And we see Fezzik grow moreconfident in his belief in
himself.
Right.
But also it's Fezzik's beliefthat pulls Inigo out of his kind
of sprawling depression.
You know, Fezzik didn't just seethis horrible, nasty alcoholic.
(31:25):
He was like, no, my friend, Iknow you can be better.
I'm going to walk with youbecause I believe in you.
Even like with, Wesley, Fezzikwas like, He's not dead until I
say he's dead.
Micah (31:37):
You're gonna carry this dead guy.
Kat (31:39):
We're gonna carry this dead guy around and we're gonna, I'm
gonna follow the orders of thishalf dead guy.
Right?
I mean, Fezzik really, shows thepower of having people who
believe in you when you can'tbelieve in yourself.
Laurel (31:51):
Well, he's very heroic.
He's so heroic! He's, yes, he's,and I mean, we, Wesley's
handsome and he's wonderful andloyal and faithful too, but wow.
Fezzik is just loyal to thecore.
Micah (32:06):
Is he the Samwise Gamge of The Princess Bride?
Laurel (32:08):
I think that's right.
Kat (32:09):
Yes, but I think as far as, like, even, you know, character
development tips that we canlearn from physics.
I just really loved that, ofeverybody's character arc.
I think that Fezzik's wasprobably the most
transformational and yet themost subtle.
It wasn't like this in your facekind of thing.
You know, sometimes I think thatwe think that character arcs
have to have these massivevalues between point A and point
(32:31):
B.
I think Fezzik's was just like agentle curve and you can almost
follow these big moments in theplot where the story totally
could have changed.
Right.
If we had left Wesley dead onthe table,
Micah (32:42):
well, this has been a great discussion as always
ladies.
And, just a little teaser.
We've got next time coming up intime for the holidays, Charles
(33:06):
Dickens, A Christmas Carol.
So that should be a really funone.
And, in the meantime, share withus your, thoughts on Instagram,
follow us, share with yourfriends, if you're enjoying it,
especially your writer friends,and we'll see you next time.
Laurel (33:21):
Bye.
Melissa (33:22):
Bye.
Kat (33:23):
Bye.
Welcome to the Stories That Change Us podcast.
I'm Micah Leidorf, and I am herewith my writer friends, Laurel
Thomas, Kat Lewis, MelissaGrace.
And on this fifth episode, weare talking about everybody's
favorite, the Princess Bride.
Now, the Princess Bride is alittle bit different because The
(00:27):
movie adaptation was vastly morepopular than the book, but I
mean, a lot of us may not evenknown.
Oh, wait, that was a real book,right?
Kat (00:37):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, it's a little bit of aninteresting story because it's
kind of, not only is it, oh,wait, there's a real book, but
then the book is a pretendadaptation of a longer book
that's actually fictional, so itgets a little bit convoluted,
but I've loved the book, I mean,I've loved the movie forever,
and I've never read the book, sothis was my first time to read
(00:59):
it.
How about you guys?
Same.
Melissa (01:01):
Same.
Yes.
Micah (01:03):
Okay, so none of us had actually read the book before.
No.
Okay, well, what were your firstimpressions?
Kat (01:08):
I mean, I walked into this with a distinct feeling of dread
because I remember, somebodydistinctly telling me that the
Princess Bride is boring.
And once I, once I kind ofacclimated myself, I actually
thought that I was reading thewrong book.
For the first like 15 pagesbecause there's so much story
(01:28):
set up of, you know, like theauthor and he was never
impressive in school and then hewrites this book and this was
the book that his dad wasreading I legit was like, did I
freaking buy the wrong, this isa 25 dollar incorrect copy.
Micah (01:45):
And well, you can't believe everything everybody
tells you, especially when theysay something's boring.
It reminds me of those one starreviews of like the Grand Canyon
or, you know, it's like, really?
Like they thought the PrincessBride was boring?
What did they want?
Seriously, seriously.
How about you, Laurel?
What were your firstimpressions?
Laurel (02:04):
Well, from a novelist's point of view, I thought, this
is tropey, tropey, tropey.
Micah (02:10):
Oh my goodness.
Laurel (02:12):
Yay, because tropes are good.
And he's like unashamed with histropes.
Kat (02:19):
Just throwing them in there.
Laurel (02:20):
Oh, it's just so lovely.
The more the better.
Micah (02:22):
Okay, Laurel, you're using some literary jargon
there.
For our non writer listeners,can you tell us what is a trope?
Laurel (02:30):
So a trope is like a universal.
It's a, it's a universalemotional appeal.
So, you know, the dashing youngman who lays down his life for a
damsel in distress, that's atrope.
Like, um, and Fezzik, you know,the giant.
(02:52):
Well, we love him, but why do welove him?
Because he's a trope.
He is a big guy who doesn'tthink that he has a brain and he
ends up saving the day.
And you know, they're, they'refun, but as many as you can get
into your novel, it brings auniversal emotional appeal.
Micah (03:12):
Awesome.
Well, thank you for explainingthat.
Part of what we do here atStories That Change Us is we
kind of dissect these storiesthat we love.
We have this visceralattraction, right, to Princess
Bride.
I mean, I love that, it's,there's something for everyone,
right?
Like, I think it's great.
My girlfriends think it's great.
But I can show it to my, like,my little eight and Seven year
(03:36):
old boys and they love it.
And now they're 17 and 18 andthey still love it.
So it's great to like kind ofdissect and find out, okay, what
exactly is it about thesestories that is appealing to us?
So, you Melissa have not yetshared your first impressions.
We got Kat's and Laurel's buthow about you Melissa?
Melissa (03:55):
I had just a little minute where I was like, okay,
are Florin and Guilder Are theyreal?
Kat (04:03):
Oh, my gosh.
Micah (04:05):
You're probably not the only one, but it's brave of you
to admit it
Melissa (04:09):
was like, you know, there are little countries in
Europe.
that I'm unfamiliar with It wasjust, it was just a flash.
It was just, it was there.
I have to admit, it was there.
Kat (04:22):
In your defense, Melissa, the author really does kind of
prep you like, you know, talkingabout like, this is a fictional
retelling of an actual fictionstory that some, you know,
Slavic author wrote.
I really was like.
I need to go back and look at myEuropean maps from like the
1950s.
Laurel (04:40):
Well and you don't read fantasy much.
Melissa (04:43):
No, I don't.
Micah (04:44):
Yeah.
Laurel (04:44):
Because it has, you know.
That's right.
Fantasy has a feel.
Melissa (04:48):
I'm very easy to fool.
Good to know.
Micah (04:51):
Good to know.
I feel like that's part of theappeal.
I feel like it's like, oh, okay,it's tongue in cheek.
We're not really sure whichparts we're supposed to take
seriously and which parts he'slike, Laughing with us.
It's that's part of the fun ofit, right?
Kat (05:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Laurel (05:08):
Whimsical.
Micah (05:09):
Yes.
Yes.
It's very whimsical.
It's very whimsical.
Well, here at Stories ThatChange Us we do like to have our
few questions we ask every weekand the first one of those is
for favorite quotes.
Now, okay, my goodness, likepretty much a lot of us probably
can quote the entire PrincessBride practically, so the whole
movie is like, or the wholemovie, I say movie, the whole
(05:29):
book is like the movie, soquotable.
So I'm, I'm curious to see if wehave any repeats.
You want to go first, Laurel?
Laurel (05:36):
I do.
Okay.
So this is not highly original,but it comes with a very sweet
story.
So the whole as you wish.
So when...when you write, uh,romance, it's nice to have,
like, a little phrase, acatchphrase that is very unique
and personal to that love story.
(05:58):
So, my husband and I were goingthrough a really hard time.
I cannot remember what it was,but it was terrible.
And he looked at me one morningand he said, if you run away,
take me with you.
I told him, I was like, it'sgoing to show up in a story.
(06:19):
Because it was like that.
Okay.
He could have said, I love you.
Don't run away.
But.
But the way he said that was alittle, it's become like a
little catchphrase for us thatit shows not only the depth of
his love and, and that, youknow, it's enduring love and
(06:39):
that, you know, even if I run,he will come with me.
So I think the whole, as youwish, repeated over and over is,
is a really, it's a literarydevice.
Micah (06:52):
It's very clever.
Laurel (06:53):
It's very, catchy, but it also communicates a lot.
Okay.
Micah (06:58):
All right.
Kat can you beat that?
I mean, she's got the sweetstory in there.
Kat (07:02):
I know.
I know.
Man.
Micah (07:04):
What was your favorite?
Kat (07:06):
Don't, don't put so much pressure on me.
So if we're looking at a quotethat, either like reveals like
author's voice or characterdevelopment, I, this whole book
is quotable.
Like, I had to really stopmyself when we finally got into
the story.
I really had to stop myself fromjust like writing down all these
(07:27):
little zingers because, Goldmanis so, so great about.
Finding the different way toexpress love or displeasure or
sass, it just ripples throughthe book.
But the quote that stood out tome as far as a great example of
this author's voice is, this istowards the very beginning of
the book when Buttercup iswalking through the village and
(07:48):
she's trying to figure out.
The village girls just likeeminent dislike of her,.
And finally, she goes up to oneof the girls and she's like,
Hey, what's the deal?
We used to at least becourteous, but now like you guys
are rude.
And the girl's response wassomething to the effect of,
you've taken all of theirattention.
And Buttercup replies with this.
(08:10):
She said,"I don't need her toexplain who them is.
Them is the boys, the villageboys.
The beef witted, featherbrained, rattle skulled, clawed
pated, dim domed, Noodle Noggin,Saff Headed, Lunk Knobbed Boys".
(08:30):
And I loved that because I waslike, if you didn't know what
kind of ride you were in for inthis novel, I thought that that
quote was an awesome example ofthe author's voice.
And he's like, If you thoughtthis was a serious love story.
Oh, oh, oh, contraire, right?
Like, buckle up.
Micah (08:51):
Okay.
Well, I guess we didn't need toworry about having the same
quote as that.
I don't, I don't think I know.
Kat (08:59):
That's not one of the top 10.
Micah (09:01):
Needless fear, needless fear.
Okay, Melissa, how about you?
Melissa (09:04):
Mine is kind of obscure also because I love when, when
writers, screenwriters on our TVshows, you know, police
procedurals or whatever, whenyou can very efficiently develop
character and, Buttercup'sparents.
I feel like he developedButtercup's parents just so,
(09:27):
beginning of a chapter.
"Quick, quick, come! Buttercup'sfather stood in his farmhouse
staring out the window.
Why?
This from the mother.
She gave away nothing when itcame to obedience.
The father made a quick fingerpoint.
Look, you look, you know how.
Buttercup's parents did not haveexactly what you might call a
happy marriage.
All they ever dreamed of wasleaving each other".
(09:51):
So in just a handful ofsentences, he has told that and
he goes on to give tallies oftheir arguments.
At one point he says, um, Thiswas their 33rd spat of the day.
This was long after spats and hewas behind 13 to 20, but he had
made up a lot of distance sincelunch when it was 17 to 2
(10:13):
against him.
So in just a few words.
Yes.
The, the author tells us so muchabout their relationship.
That's right.
Micah (10:25):
I see.
This is why I like hanging outwith you ladies, because you
know, you just bring so muchinsight, you know, that's one of
the things that, you don't pickup normally in the stories.
So I am much more conventionalin my choice of quotes.
So like I say, I actuallybrought a few because I was
afraid that you guys might havechosen one and you didn't choose
(10:46):
any of them.
So I'm going to go with, the onewhenever Wesley and Buttercup
are about to enter into the fireswamp and, he says,"Just a few
steps more and we'll be safe inthe fire swamp.
And she said, we'll neversurvive.
And he said, nonsense, you'reonly saying that because no one
ever has".
(11:06):
And I just love it.
There's so many quotable quotes,but it's just, he's this witty
banter, this, this, you know,comedic timing, just like you
say, it's, it's got everything.
I think it's like encapsulateskind of the movie that has
everything.
It has romance, it has action,it has comedy.
So like, who doesn't love all ofthat?
So that's, that was my quotethat I just love because it
(11:29):
encapsulates for me, like thewhole.
I keep calling it the movie, thebook.
So actually
Melissa (11:36):
We did love the movie first.
Micah (11:37):
Right.
Right.
And actually I was so surprised.
I had no idea really what toexpect.
I'd heard the book was good, butthis book brought so much joy to
me in reading it.
It was just, it was a reminderof like.
the pleasure of reading.
Yes, we love, we love a movieand you know that's two hours
and we can laugh, but a book youjust kind of get to sit in it
(12:02):
and ruminate and actually it wassuch, such a pleasure to see how
the movie got it perfect, how ittook the You can speak up, Kat.
Kat (12:11):
No, no, no, no.
I know.
No, no, no.
I just, um, you know, I wasintroduced to the movie first,
and I really came in with alittle bit of dread, mainly
because I had heard that it wasboring, and I was like, how can
it live up to the movie?
And in fact, having read thebook, I have some criticisms for
how the movie, like, they leftout the parents.
(12:31):
They left, they, I canunderstand maybe some of their
choices as far as charactercasting and all these things,
but I would have loved to haveseen a far more sinister Prince
Humperdinck.
And, you know, like some ofthese things that you really get
in the book and that you get tosit with in the book.
And I, we kind of chose this,you know, our next two novels
kind of off the cuff.
(12:52):
And I had to remind myself, Kat,you cannot go back and reread
that passage for the third time.
Like you, you've got stuff todo, girl.
So just like, This is a novelthat you just enjoy sitting
with.
Yes.
Yes.
Micah (13:05):
Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, um, this is, so we have ourquestions that we normally ask
in every podcast, but this is alittle bit different because
again, we don't always havethis, such a strong movie
adaptation.
So do you want to explore thatanymore about other differences
between the movie and the book?
Cause most people will be morefamiliar with the movie.
So were there anything else,anybody?
(13:26):
Wanted to bring up regardingthat.
Kat (13:29):
My biggest issue is with Prince Humperdinck, but, I think
we'll get into that with some ofthe other questions.
So
Melissa (13:36):
I actually feel like that.
They did do a good job with thecharacters, the things that you
do get to dive deep in thenovel, seeing that, you know,
Buttercup is not sharpest knifein the drawer or whatever.
And also, you know, there's,let's see.
And, um, Fezzik, you know, his,his attitude toward himself,
(14:00):
like you were talking about, notseeing, it's like just the
little glances that we see ofthe characters in the movie, I
feel like they did do a good jobgiving us at least the flavor
for, you know, I remember, Iremember, you know Robin Wright
having like a confused look onher face a lot and things like
that and that, you know, that,
Kat (14:22):
Yeah, I, I love a good villain.
Right.
And so I feel like.
for the other characters, maybelike getting a hint of that
flavor was okay and in some ofthe characters, I would say in
Wesley and Fezzik and Inigo andthe Sicilian, and I can't
remember what his name is.
I think he did a fantastic jobwith those, but Prince
(14:42):
Humperdinck was, he had thisbrutality about him that I
understand why they probablythought we're just going to
pluck that out of a familyfriendly novel, but I think that
he, You know, I think that.
So in the movie we get a verycunning, rich, privileged, like
privileged, rich boy, PrinceHumperdinck in the movie.
(15:03):
But in the book, he's this likebeefy, barreling.
Strong, vile hunter who he'svery okay with all you see is
the six four barrel chested, youknow, jock, but he really, he's
like, no, no, no, there's,there's a whole noggin up here.
(15:24):
And I think that.
The juxtaposition that we getwith some of the other
characters, we didn't get withPrince Humberdink in the movie.
So that's my, that's my, that'syour little input.
Micah (15:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Great.
Well, um, the next question wehave is to identify a moment in
the story that you felt stoodout with visceral relief and
explain what storytellingtechniques help that to be a
successful scene.
So does anybody feel reallystrongly about a particular
scene and the storytellingtechniques that helped it to be
(15:57):
as successful as it was?
Melissa (15:59):
I actually loved the scene, where Buttercup is, after
the first time that the countand the countess come to the
farm and the countess is makinggoogly eyes at Wesley and she's,
in her room and she saysButtercup went to her room, she
(16:20):
lay down and closed her eyes andthe countess was staring at
Wesley.
And she.
Got up and it goes on about, andshe closes her eyes again, the
Countess is still staring atWesley and just, I thought it
was very well written for, justan anxious female who has seen
(16:41):
her, you know.
Laurel (16:43):
Well, it forced a decision on her part.
Right.
So it made it effective.
Melissa (16:48):
Right.
It made it effective, but alsoit was that, that sense of
everybody.
I mean.
Who hasn't had a moment of justkind of nuttiness here.
I am confessing again, butnuttiness, you know, thinking
about the boy they like, orsomething like that and seeing
them looking at somebody elseand imagination just go on.
Kat (17:09):
And yeah, no, I think that that scene was really great.
Because, um, you think about inthe modern world, how we're
introduced to sexual tensionbetween the opposite sex at a
really early age, I actuallyreally love seeing how this very
sheltered person is workingthrough the fact that she's
like, Oh, wait, maybe I am.
(17:30):
Why is it that the Countessstaring at him is like,
bothering me and like, and Iguess with his shirt off, he
does look kind of nice.
And like, just like a veryinnocent mind's what getting to,
Oh, I think I do kind of likehim, you know?
And I, I thought he executedthat so so well.
Melissa (17:48):
Well, what I took from it was just how her mind just
keeps.
you know, going, going, going,spinning, spinning out of
control.
And that, he took that veryspecific thing and I felt like
he made it universal, likesomething we can all relate to
of anxiety and letting somethingkind of get out of control in
(18:13):
your head or whatever.
Or maybe it's just me.
Micah (18:16):
No, I think that's a great observation, Melissa.
Like you said, he took thatline.
You know, the Countess was stillstaring at Wesley, like, okay,
that's not universal, right?
We've never seen a Countess bestaring at the boy that we had a
crush on in junior high.
But you, like you said, you tookthat thing, but then you're
like, oh, but we have seen inour heads where we can't stop
thinking about something and wejust, you know, illustrate.
Kat (18:39):
Yeah.
And I'll say, I think that whatthe author does really well in
that scene and what this authordoes really well in the book,
and it's kind of what youtouched on, Laurel, his use of
repetition is flawless.
Like he, he kind of knows whenit's too much as, as you wish.
Right.
But like, you know, when it'slike, when Wesley says it, you
(19:00):
know, it can mean, I love you.
It can mean, of course, my dear,he has made this very simple
phrase nuanced in it'srepetition and even in that
scene that you're talking about,Melissa, he uses that same
phrase, like to kind of keep themomentum moving forward.
Micah (19:16):
I mean, talk about repetition.
Like my name is Amiga Ventura.
Yeah.
Kat (19:20):
And let's talk about like the power that these things have
in the plot, right?
So it goes from, you know, myname is Inigo Montoya, you know,
it goes from this introductionand it keeps building in
suspense until we finally haveour moment of glory, right?
Where his name goes from anintroduction to a threat by the
(19:43):
time we get to to plot momentum.
And so just talking about, like,I think that's one of the things
that I learned and took awayfrom.
Micah (19:50):
Oh, good.
Good.
Good.
Well, that kind of leads us tothe next question, which is what
truths about society or thehuman experience are explored or
confirmed or challenged in thisnovel.
So what are some of the truthsabout the human experience?
That you guys picked up,
Kat (20:10):
I mean, I'll be honest.
I really struggled with thisquestion because it's so
Melissa (20:15):
You made up the question, Kat
Kat (20:19):
It's so whimsical know, like with other things we can
find truths with gone with thewind and with outlander and
Pride and prejudice, but Ithought princess Bride
Micah (20:29):
It's not true love?
Kat (20:33):
No, actually.
Laurel (20:34):
That was a great scene.
That was a great scene.
Kat (20:37):
No, Micah, thanks.
No, it's not true love.
Actually, what I thought, andwhat came to mind immediately
was, excellence.
And how each of these charactersin their tropiness, right?
They're all the best of thebest.
Yeah.
And yet, because they're thebest of the best, it creates
(20:58):
some isolation from the rest ofsociety.
You think about Inigo, whobecomes such a great swords
master, he becomes so bored withlife, he turns to alcohol,
right, to kind of bring somepizzazz.
Fezziki's this giant.
He doesn't fit in anywhere.
You know, the Sicilian andwhatever his name is.
Melissa (21:14):
Um, Vizzini,
Kat (21:16):
Vizzini, Vizzini is a, he's a hobbled genius, right?
Um, even like PrinceHumperdinck, he's the best
hunter in the world.
So good.
The fifth most beautiful woman.
There was such an emphasis onbeauty here.
I was like, what is going on?
But so you think about like howtheir excellence kind of it
(21:36):
isolated them from the quoteunquote, normal people, and
there was something that wasn'tfulfilled in their lives until
they came into contact with eachother.
And the lesson that I kind oftook away from this was, you
know, in a modern Western world,we're not really concerned with
excellence.
And we're not really concernedabout, like, what is that one
thing that I, that I want to beknown as the best in, but also
(21:59):
recognizing that where they felldown was a lack of community.
So, you know, I can be the bestthriller author out there, but I
don't need to be writing in acloset by myself.
There's no reason for that,right?
So choose what I want to beexcellent in and then go find my
people because my people are outthere.
Hmm.
Laurel (22:19):
That's true.
Thank you, Kat.
Micah (22:21):
Well, leave it to Kat to come up with, with the, the
truth.
I did not come up with that andI'm sure I also struggled with
that question a little bit likeyou say it's it's really obvious
in some stories it's like reallyI thought this was all about
comedy does it have to have agreat truth right but I kind of
(22:42):
thought it led into the nextquestion which is what aspect of
the craft of writing was doneexceptionally well in this book?
Um, and I think.
That actually it's that communalexperience.
I think that's what's sowonderful about this book.
Like, you know, C.
S.
Lewis says famously, we read toknow we're not alone.
(23:05):
And so, you know, yes, booksconnect us with people in the
past.
But in this case, this book is astory really is a communal
experience like the joy of thisbook is again how it combines
all those elements so that wecan all quote it to each other.
So that we can all sit and shareit with our kids after we shared
it with our sweetheart after weshared it with our parents.
(23:28):
And so that's what he doesexceptionally well is he gives
us this communal experience thatwe can all enjoy together.
And I think they're so it's sorare.
It's so rare to find somethinglike that.
Laurel (23:41):
Um, I love that.
And I think too, that as far asin life, sometimes our, our
relationships that connect usare like totally unplanned.
They appear to have justhappened.
You know, and yet we don't wantto ever underestimate the fact
(24:01):
that some of those chancemeetings can be like the richest
part of our lives.
I mean, they develop intorelationships that take us
through hard times or funnytimes or happy times, which is
lovely.
Micah (24:16):
Absolutely.
So friendship, actually, thatwould be a good truth, right?
Like you said, to find yourpeople, to find your tribe, to,
how about you, Melissa?
Melissa (24:25):
Well, I actually answered the question.
I actually found something inthe, in the book.
So Buttercup, she's out on herride right before she gets
kidnapped.
She is thinking"Everyone hadtold her since she became a
princess in training that shewas very likely the most
beautiful woman in the world.
Now, she was going to be therichest and most powerful as
well.
(24:46):
Don't expect too much from life,Buttercup, Buttercup told
herself as she wrote along,learn to be satisfied with what
you have".
So you can have everything, butif you don't have the one thing
you want, which was true love.
Kat (24:59):
True love.
Melissa (25:01):
My writer mind went back to that.
I can just see him going backand saying, okay, I have to set
up Buttercup's need.
I have to set up what, and youknow, like going back to that
scene and saying, okay.
What does she want?
What is she thinking about here?
Kat (25:22):
So, well, and let's talk about, I think that this leads,
leads into the fourth questionas far as like, what did we.
What storytelling technique didwe learn or were introduced to?
I think he does such a great jobabout taking a tropey character,
such as the flawlessly beautifulwoman and making her relatable
in a way that really surprisesus.
(25:43):
So he sets Buttercup upimmediately as a girl who really
doesn't care about her looks.
Even though we get thiscountdown, you know, she's the
52nd most beautiful woman ever.
Only when Wesley leaves, doesshe start like combing her hair,
like only when Wesley leaves,does she start like bathing,
like what?
And so in this moment, Melissa,that you're talking about where
(26:05):
she's like, be content with whatyou have.
Compare Buttercup to Cinderella.
Buttercup's over here like, Imean, I'm gorgeous and I'm
getting ready to be a princess.
I'm gonna be rich and peoplelove me, right?
Compared to Cinderella, who'slike, I'm over here scrubbing
these floors and I would, Iwould literally probably kill
somebody to be in Buttercup'sposition.
(26:25):
But the author makes Buttercup.
Her trope, very surprising byhaving this girl who's almost
like, she's like, if I couldjust have Wesley back, I would
give all of this up.
Right.
Right.
And so I relearned the power ofincorporating tropes, but
flipping them on their head soit's surprising and makes that
trope relatable.
Micah (26:43):
Yeah, that's another, I mean, he does so many things so
well, but that's a good exampleof, he makes this.
This dumb, super beautiful womanmakes, us root for her.
That's really hard.
How did he do that?
Wow.
Melissa (26:56):
Yeah.
What I feel like I learned isthat there is so much power in
surprise.
And it's late in the book andthey're on the, the revenge and
Wesley's people are trying to,to save them and, and Princess
Buttercup says, we have morethan hope, Buttercup said, there
(27:18):
is true love, Princess Piercesaid.
You work your side of the streetand I'll work mine.
I love it so much because it is,it's just like, you know, here
we are, she's in fairytale modeand true love, you know, and he
(27:39):
just comes with this cynicism.
It, it, it just worked.
It works really well to, likeyou said, turn things on their
head.
Micah (27:47):
So again, if we're going to talk about, you know, again,
the skills that he demonstratesin this like witty banter, he's
taken it to another level, hemay have the Olympic gold medal
in witty banter.
Kat (27:59):
I would give him the Olympic gold medal because from
moment one with the parents, Ireally genuinely was like, you
know, we talk about this idea ofwriting characters.
With such a strong voice thatyou can remove the dialogue
tags.
I'm like, this is probably thefirst book that I have read ever
where I'm like, take awayeverything that's not dialogue
and I know exactly who's talkingright.
(28:21):
And do you think he, and he doesa really great job of creating
expectation of what you think isgoing to come out of their
mouth.
And then just when you're like,okay, here comes Wesley with his
very like short clip sardonicresponse.
And then he does somethingtotally random and you're like,
what?
And it's brilliant.
I, it William Goldman, go aheadwith your bad self.
Micah (28:45):
Okay, well, I think it's time for one of our favorite
features of character roulette.
So this is where we put all thecharacters in a little basket
here, and then we pull one outand we talk about that
character.
So we've got, oh, Wesley, we'vegot Princess Buttercup, we've
got Prince Humperdinck, we'vegot Magic Man Max, Fezzik,
(29:08):
Sicillian Indigo, Um, so who arewe going to pull out of here?
And it is
Laurel (29:17):
Fezzik!
Micah (29:17):
Fezzik!
Kat (29:18):
Fezzik! Alright!
Micah (29:19):
Okay, well we talked about him a little bit already,
and who would have thought thathe's who we would have pulled
out?
Laurel (29:25):
Well, we've talked about Buttercup, and we've talked
about Wesley,
Kat (29:30):
Yeah, let's talk about Fezzik as like a character who
is like a change engine for thestory.
Laurel (29:38):
He is.
He is.
And again, he doesn't expectthat about himself.
And, and his strength, he makesit funny, you know, as far as
like he carried all three ofthem and they jump out of the
window.
He just said, jump out of thewindow one by.
One at a time, because I can'tcatch you if you all shoot at
(29:59):
once.
But I mean, like, I'll, I wouldtry and he would die trying.
So he's really a heroic guy.
Micah (30:08):
Well, when we go back to the truths explored here, I
think one of them that, I mean,yeah, it's hard to know because
everything is so tongue incheek.
You're like, okay, well, what ishe really saying here?
But I think loyalty is actuallypretty strongly,
Kat (30:22):
Yeah,
Micah (30:23):
illustrate in and espouse and you know, I mean, again, we
have with Buttercup and Wesleyboth saying like seriously No,
I'm not gonna take a prince.
I'm not gonna take anybody elseThis is my one person.
But then also like Fezzik, youknow It's like an indigo and all
these people you have all thesedifferent groups where they just
show loyalty to one another.
So I think that Fezzik reallydoes show that that loyalty and
(30:46):
also again kind of these humanvalues are what You know, give
our lives meaning whenever wehave character and we stay true
to the things that we believeare valuable.
Kat (31:02):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
I am.
I think one of the values thatFezzik exhibits as a character
is the value of belief.
And we see Fezzik grow moreconfident in his belief in
himself.
Right.
But also it's Fezzik's beliefthat pulls Inigo out of his kind
of sprawling depression.
You know, Fezzik didn't just seethis horrible, nasty alcoholic.
(31:25):
He was like, no, my friend, Iknow you can be better.
I'm going to walk with youbecause I believe in you.
Even like with, Wesley, Fezzikwas like, He's not dead until I
say he's dead.
Micah (31:37):
You're gonna carry this dead guy.
Kat (31:39):
We're gonna carry this dead guy around and we're gonna, I'm
gonna follow the orders of thishalf dead guy.
Right?
I mean, Fezzik really, shows thepower of having people who
believe in you when you can'tbelieve in yourself.
Laurel (31:51):
Well, he's very heroic.
He's so heroic! He's, yes, he's,and I mean, we, Wesley's
handsome and he's wonderful andloyal and faithful too, but wow.
Fezzik is just loyal to thecore.
Micah (32:06):
Is he the Samwise Gamge of The Princess Bride?
Laurel (32:08):
I think that's right.
Kat (32:09):
Yes, but I think as far as, like, even, you know, character
development tips that we canlearn from physics.
I just really loved that, ofeverybody's character arc.
I think that Fezzik's wasprobably the most
transformational and yet themost subtle.
It wasn't like this in your facekind of thing.
You know, sometimes I think thatwe think that character arcs
have to have these massivevalues between point A and point
(32:31):
B.
I think Fezzik's was just like agentle curve and you can almost
follow these big moments in theplot where the story totally
could have changed.
Right.
If we had left Wesley dead onthe table,
Micah (32:42):
well, this has been a great discussion as always
ladies.
And, just a little teaser.
We've got next time coming up intime for the holidays, Charles
(33:06):
Dickens, A Christmas Carol.
So that should be a really funone.
And, in the meantime, share withus your, thoughts on Instagram,
follow us, share with yourfriends, if you're enjoying it,
especially your writer friends,and we'll see you next time.
Laurel (33:21):
Bye.
Melissa (33:22):
Bye.
Kat (33:23):
Bye.
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