December 29, 2024 • 45 mins
Dark, thrilling, and prescriptively moral are not words often used to describe the work of Louisa May Alcott, but the 19th century novelist was hiding more up her sleeve than simply a pen and a copy of Little Women. A Long Fatal Love Chase is one of Alcott's first novels and, while not vastly popular during her time, took the world by storm in the late 90s and highlights her impeccable use of melodrama, textured villains, and even cliche characters to deliver a high impact story with a haunting conclusion.
Moderated By: Kat Lewis
Question: what is a story that has changed your life?
https://instagram.com/storiesthat_changeus?igshid=eTlibmFxdXZmbXV5&utm_source=qr
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kat Lewis (00:01):
Welcome everyone to the seventh episode of the
Stories That Change Us podcast.
My name is Kat Lewis and I amhere with some of my lovely
writer friends, Michael Leydorf,Melissa Grace and Laurel Thomas.
And this week as we arerecovering from all things,
holidays and super bowl, wedecided to decompress with one
(00:23):
of Louisa May Alcott's lesserknown novels, but still quite
engaging and enthralling, A LongFatal Love Chase.
This is a, one of Louisa MayAlcott's, um, lesser known
works.
And I think it's tragic becausethis book is so good.
I grew up with this novel.
This novel was a staple in theLewis household.
(00:44):
I, as we get into it, I don'tknow if that's going to be a pro
or a con.
We'll see.
But what about just reactionsacross the room?
Like, Had anybody else read thisbook before or was this like a
brand new journey for the group?
Laurel Thomas (00:56):
Well, my name is Laurel and I, so I knew that Kat
had read this book when she wasa young Kat.
And so I love that.
I loved the, that picture as Iwas reading, imagining our
spirited friend, And how muchlike Rosamund she was and all of
(01:17):
the Gothic romance stuff, youknow, it was just, to me, it was
a blast.
And I could imagine that LouisaMay Alcott said, you know what,
I'm just going to go for theweekend, have a good time and
write a novel.
Kat Lewis (01:30):
With all the things, all the things, all the danger
in the romance,
Laurel Thomas (01:36):
and she did.
Kat Lewis (01:38):
That's awesome.
Micah Leydorf (01:39):
Well, this is Micah Leydorf, and no, I had
never heard of this novel bysuch a famous author.
We've heard so much about LittleWomen.
We've had umpteen filmadaptations.
You know, everybody read it inelementary school, and yet,
we've never heard of LittleWomen.
This one.
So I was intrigued that you,Kat, said how it was your
favorite, and like Laurel said,it was, you know, a little bit
(02:01):
of window into your soul.
That said, when I read it, um,you know, since this is a show
about these classics forauthors, I did find myself
thinking, oh, okay.
Okay.
This is, you know, veryobviously maybe her first novel,
you know, versus like then, youknow, her skills and her craft,
(02:24):
as Laurel likes to say, grewover the years.
And so I feel like there's areason why the characters of
Little Women are so real to usthat we talk about them like
they're regular people and theystick with us.
And why.
We read this, um, about a monthago because we got delayed
because of the ice storm fromtalking about it.
(02:44):
And we're like, what were thosecharacters names again?
Like, that's how I was.
So I feel like there's a reasonwhy, um, you know, Little Women
is so enduring.
And, and why this novel, whilefun to read, especially because
it gives us, you know, a windowinto our friend.
Um, But it wasn't the criticallyacclaimed novel or the success
(03:05):
that Little Women was.
I think there's some lessons tobe learned from that as we
discuss.
Melissa Grace (03:09):
Well, this is Melissa Grace.
I agree that it lacked maybesome polish, but I have to say
that I read the very first pageand my first thought was the
melodrama of the melodrama.
And then my second thought was,When can I read again?
(03:29):
You know, it was like, I wanted,she hooked me into this world
and I wanted to come back tothis world until I knew how the
story ended.
So even though it wasn't, youknow, even though there was some
melodrama and that it'sinteresting because, you know,
(03:49):
as a writer, the first time Idid, you know, wrote my first
manuscript, I went back andlooked at it and went, Oh, the
melodrama.
So I understood.
A
Kat Lewis (04:02):
little backstory on where A Long Fatal Love Chase
falls in Louisa May Alcott'swriting career.
So she had written, um, kind ofthese Y a sweet letters.
Um, I think it's, uh, flowers inbloom or rose in bloom.
It was like a collection ofpoets.
Fun fact about Louisa MayAlcott.
(04:22):
She was Waldo Emerson's nannyfor his daughter.
And so she wrote a lot of her YAstuff for his daughter just to
keep her occupied.
Okay.
And when Waldo Emerson realized,this person has talent.
He actually requested a juicy,spicy.
(04:42):
novel, right?
And he was like, I need it tobe, he had some kind of specific
qualifications.
It needs to be a thriller.
It needs to be 24 chapters.
Every second chapter needs toend on a cliffhanger.
So the audience keeps returningand Louisa May Alcott produces
this novel, this dark,thrilling, stalker romance,
(05:03):
right?
And, uh, turns it in and hebasically says, Yeah, you went a
little too far.
That's a little too much.
Laurel Thomas (05:12):
I don't know.
How unlike Twilight is it
Kat Lewis (05:16):
really?
You know, um, and so she wrotethis novel in 1966.
She wrote Little Women directlyafter, I'm sorry, 1866.
Thank you.
Louisa May Alcott wrote thisnovel in 1866 and she proceeded
to write Little Women two yearslater, I guess when she thought,
when the palates of the audiencechanges, I'll just.
(05:38):
whip A Long Fatal Love Chaseback out again.
So she actually tucked it awayand died with it unpublished.
And it got mislabeled by someBritish archivists, as a
different story, they didn'trediscover this novel until,
until 1995 and it wasrepublished in 95.
And when it was republished, itwas on fire.
(05:59):
It was absolutely on fire.
People were like, this is aLouisa May Alcott I've never
seen before.
But, I would compare this novelto Jane Eyre in some ways, um,
just with like that dark Gothicromance.
And I think she tugged on thestrings of some other more
(06:19):
popular gothic romances and shedid everything in this novel,
which probably why it feelslike, why it feels a little
melodramatic, but I loved it.
I loved it.
Melissa Grace (06:29):
Um, like I said, I couldn't get away from it.
I had to come back and finishit.
Micah Leydorf (06:34):
Yeah, I think I was, I was looking at a little
bit of research about it.
There's like the term potboiler,which I wasn't actually familiar
with that, but it's a gothicthriller.
Yeah.
Potboiler.
And that is the idea of, youknow, like keeping people in
suspense, which of course ismuch more modern now.
Right.
Then it was, then, you know, youthink about, um, you know, Jane
Austen and it's like, that's aslow burn, not exactly, exactly.
Kat Lewis (06:57):
And slow burn women's fiction around like the mundane
feminine.
experience versus, you know,swashbuckling, swashbuckling,
all the things.
Okay.
So to that end, I, again, Ithink it's really fun that like,
you guys are not familiar withthis novel at all.
What was a quote that stood outto you guys as an excellent
(07:20):
example of tension, author'svoice, or character development?
And you guys know the drill withStories That Change Us.
We do our four questions and acharacter roulette.
So this is question number oneto kind of get our writer brains
thinking about what this authorexecuted really well.
Maybe where they fell down andhow there's application for a
modern audience.
Micah Leydorf (07:41):
So I kind of broke the rules, but I guess
that's sometimes allowed to dothat.
So again, like I, I can see theappeal of this, but you know, I
can say what stood out to mejust a little bit more were more
of the, the idiosyncrasies of,you know, again, of like a
writer before she's kind ofreally hit her groove.
So like some of the quotes thatI just thought were funny
(08:03):
almost, like, so for instance,um, Uh, like this naive belief
and kind of unabashed pride inEnglish superiority.
Like, did you guys catch that?
Like one of them, I'm looking,it's like,"if you knock an
Englishman down in a fair fight,he will respect you ever
afterward".
Like that wasn't it?
Yeah.
You know, it was like, Oh, likeEnglishmen are just so
(08:26):
honorable.
And then another one was kind ofthe more hilarious.
Just even the physicalattributes.
This was with"the perfectoutlines of neck and shoulder,
which one only sees in England".
Oh! Wow! Okay! Okay! Um, butagain, I, I read it as like,
okay, this is this naive younggirl who this is the way she
(08:47):
views the world.
And actually, I, when I wasreading it, I could see Joe.
In her Garrett, like, you know,she was working on her novel,
you know, that Amy later burned.
And I was like, this is Joe'snovel.
Joe is up in that Garrettwriting this novel.
She was writing the Gothicthriller and she loved it.
And she loved her characters,but she was just a girl then.
(09:10):
And, you know, with all of herlittle idealistic, naive ideas
about romance and life and theway it goes and dreaming about
adventures that she'd never had.
Versus like whenever she wroteLittle Women where it's like,
okay, this rings true becausethis was her life.
And they always say, you know,write what you know.
And that's what, again, soagain, that those were the
(09:31):
things that just kind of stoodout to me.
The little quotes are just kindof like, Oh, it's, it's funny.
Kat Lewis (09:34):
No, I, I think we'll, we're going to find a lot of
similarities between Joe'swriting journey that we see in
little women and like elementsthat are pulled on in this
novel, because This novelrepresents all the things that
went unpublished in Joe's earlywriting career that like drove
her crazy, right?
Everybody was like, that's toomuch.
(09:55):
That's too dramatic.
That's not realistic.
And I can, I'm sensing, youknow, tendrils of that same
belief in what you're saying,Micah.
So what else, what other, whatother quotes stood out to us?
Laurel Thomas (10:07):
I thought it was interesting how the whole
seduction begins in a, uh, Idon't have this specific quote,
but she's saying, I wish I hadall the pleasure I could ever
have.
She said, my life is, had suchlittle pleasure and I'm willing
to find out what a life thatjust filled with pleasure would
(10:28):
be like.
And he, he says some interestingthings.
He says, well, would you wantthat pleasure at expense of
honesty?
Or honor.
Micah Leydorf (10:39):
So should we fill people in a little bit on the
plot?
So since most people are notfamiliar with the plot.
Kat Lewis (10:44):
That's a great idea, Micah.
So brief, spoiler free rundownof the plot.
You have a young 18 year oldRosamund Vivian.
Sheltered.
Very sheltered, but shelteredwith a guardian who does not
show her affection, I think it'sher uncle or something who
(11:05):
basically takes her in after herparents died.
And the book kind of opens withRosamund.
basically saying I've lived alife unloved and I would give
anything to go and experienceindependence and freedom and
passion.
Right.
And very shortly after that, weare introduced to one of her
uncle's associates.
His name is Philip Tempest.
(11:26):
He is dashing, handsome, older,experienced And steadily begins
to turn innocent Rosamond's Headand long story short, they ended
up getting married and going offand living this wonderful life
until a secret of Phillipsdestroys her little temple of
happiness.
And she realizes that she isstepped into this life of a
(11:50):
married woman based on a lie.
And it's not a lie that hercharacter will allow her to
continue forward.
So what does she do?
She runs away from this manthinking, You know what?
There's not a lot of options forwomen in this time to make
money, but I'm going to figureit out.
What she did not count on wasPhilip deciding, no, this is the
woman that I love and you don'tget to leave me without my say
(12:12):
so.
And it begins this literal.
Long, fatal, love chase aroundthe world across years.
This book takes place overyears.
Of a kind of stalker romance.
I was going to say a stalkerromance gone bad, but stalker
romances to aspire to.
(12:38):
And we'll get into my issueswith book reviewers having an
issue with How Philip Tempest isportrayed and yet ignoring,
there's a whole new genre andcontemporary romance of stalker
romance.
And so we have an issue withthe.
19th century stalker, but wedon't have an issue with the
21st century stalker.
(12:58):
Just, you know, food forthought.
Laurel Thomas (13:00):
Well, and it's kind of a progression because he
pulls on the very desire of herheart, which is for freedom.
Which she's not had.
Gradually, what happens is thatshe pursues, as she gets closer
to Philip Tampus, the lessfreedom she has and the more she
finds a prison.
(13:21):
And so it's just an interesting,I feel, I hear a lot of morality
play in this story.
You don't have to guess what'sgoing on here.
If you, uh, but I, I don't thinkit's any, even though the times
are totally different.
I mean, we have young adultStories like this abound.
(13:42):
She's being seduced to believethat a relationship is going to
be great and wonderful and it'sawful.
Yeah.
But then she's stuck and shecan't get out.
So anyway, I thought she did anartful job of showing how sad
(14:03):
that a young girl, all the younggirl wanted was to be loved and
to be free.
And yet, pursuing that freedomand pursuing that love in the
wrong place, she ended up in aprison.
Melissa Grace (14:14):
Well, and to me, it felt like a very long Sunday
school lesson.
I didn't see a lot of nuance.
I mean, like the good characterswere very, very good.
The bad characters were very,very bad.
Um, and I just, again, that goesback to the kind of immaturity
of the writer, She still made itwork, you know, as long as like
(14:38):
her storytelling was strongenough that I was like, okay,
that, you know, yes, I, I feellike it's a little moralizing,
but her storytelling is stillgot me and 1 of the quotes that,
um, her, um, her championIgnatius.
Tells her,"my child, never goback to this man.
(15:01):
I know him.
And if I dared sell yourinnocence with such knowledge, I
would tell you the history ofhis life.
You love him still and struggleagainst your love, feeling that
it will undo you.
He knows this, and he will temptyou by every lure he can devise,
every deceit he can employ.
Sorrow and sin will surelyfollow if you yield.
Happiness never can be yours.
(15:22):
With him, doubt, remorse andself reproach will kill love,
and a time will come when youwill find that in gaining a
brief joy, you have lost yourpeace forever".
And to me that is, it's Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's really late in thebook.
But, um, it is the statementtheme, the theme statement
Kat Lewis (15:44):
I would maybe debate that there's not nuance only
because when you look at likethe modern heroine that we see
in like, you know, these strongfemale centric stories, um,
sometimes I think that like the.
emotional impact of love andaffection is sometimes glossed
(16:04):
over with stoicism.
Like, and with like modernlogic.
So, you know, the modern femaleis not going to have these
moments of weakness where she'slike, I know this is the wrong
thing.
And I'm going to lean into thewrong thing for just a second
right before my morality snapsme forward,
Melissa Grace (16:21):
but wouldn't that be a good character who did
that?
That would be a great.
Kat Lewis (16:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
She shows us that she, shereminds us that, you know, um,
that, um, I hate anything thatsounds like Disney's follow your
heart, but she just reminds youthat, love does impact us.
And even for strong people, wehave moments of weakness and we
(16:46):
see this weakness.
The weaknesses where every timeRosamund has a moment of
weakness is always in PhilipTempest, you know, weedles his
way back in, right?
But I do think that there'snuance in the fact that When you
truly care for somebody,especially a first love there's
a lot more things to battle thanjust like, let me just
straighten my spine and do theright thing.
Melissa Grace (17:08):
She did do that.
Well, she did do that.
Well, the character development,bringing her from that just wide
eyed first love to seeing.
Laurel Thomas (17:19):
Her point of view was true.
She was incredibly sheltered,and that's what Philip Tempest,
that's what he notices.
That's what gets his attention.
It's almost like, you know,fresh blood.
blood, right?
He, he sees her innocence.
He sees just the simplicity andthe, and the fact that she's
(17:40):
been so sheltered.
And you know, to me, it's like,wow getting into a relationship,
not knowing what love is at alland falling into that
relationship with Philip Tempestand to me, that's a universal.
How do you know until sometimesyou see love in the opposite
(18:03):
form?
You see, okay, it's not that.
Melissa Grace (18:06):
Right.
Laurel Thomas (18:06):
And I felt like Rosamund, she, that was her
story.
Okay.
I wanted love.
I wanted freedom, but this isnot it.
But it's, it's a struggle, likeKat said.
Kat Lewis (18:19):
And, you know, going back to like a quote that
reveals character, I was tryingto find, I was like, what's an
early indication of Tempest'scharacter?
Cause it's kind of, the story istold from like this, it feels
like omniscient third personPOV, right?
Where the author's Very activelydropping these hints.
And, in the very first chapter,it says that, um,"most men would
(18:40):
have been touched by theinnocent confessions of the
girl, but this man's heart hadgrown hard with years of
selfishness.
And he merely enjoyed her as hewould have done a lovely flower
and exciting book or apassionate song".
I love there's, there's the slowbuild into the reveal of this
character and the reveal of thisbetrayal and all these things.
(19:01):
But, um, I, I think that quoteis a really great example of how
can you sum up the kind of manwho literally is being
entertained by young girlsinnocence?
Who, um, and later on, I thinkin chapter three, when they're
on the boat.
You know, he says something tothe degree of, I wanted to test
(19:21):
this moral code that you had.
I wanted to see if it was asstrong as my determination.
And so what Rosamond senses isadmiration for her.
Really?
He's like, this is just achallenge.
Like I've not met somebody who'sso sheltered yet has such a
strong sense of self.
And I'm going to test the limitsof this thing.
And I think, for me, that's whatkept drawing me in.
(19:43):
And I was like, I.
As the reader, I'm like, I knowhe's going to test her and I
want to see how she holds up tothese things.
And, um, and it was, it was along wild ride for us to see
the, uh, the conclusion of this,but going on to our next
question here, what is a momentin the story that stands out
with visceral relief and kind oftalk us through the storytelling
(20:07):
techniques that make this assuccessful scene.
Laurel Thomas (20:11):
Well, I thought the resolution was pretty good
because he had seen, uh, theimage in the mirror and she,
this is at the very beginningand she said, what do you see?
Is it a magic mirror?
And he said, I see a young,lovely woman dead with,
inconsolable old man hoveringover her and a man looking on
(20:34):
who is beyond despair.
Yeah.
Um, and a despair that he hasnever experienced before.
And so, of course, then when wetalk about mirror images, then
that essentially is the end.
Kat Lewis (20:51):
So foreshadowing
Laurel Thomas (20:53):
Yeah, I mean I was just thinking mirror image
because we get that at the verybeginning and then we get at the
very end So
Micah Leydorf (20:59):
Right.
If you talk about Save The Cat,which we've mentioned before,
the closing scene and theopening and should kind of
reflect one another.
So that's when again, she didn'thave Save The Cat.
I
Laurel Thomas (21:13):
think she was a genius or something.
Melissa Grace (21:16):
I thought that the scenes with the child, and
I'm sorry, I don't, I don't, um,
Kat Lewis (21:22):
Lido.
Melissa Grace (21:23):
Lido.
Yes.
That the scenes with the child,and this
Micah Leydorf (21:26):
was her stepson, yes,
Melissa Grace (21:29):
but we didn't know at the time it was her
stepson..
I just thought it was veryinteresting how all the, like,
um, Tempest was most definitelythe antagonist.
Um, and Like it seemed likeeveryone surrounding him was a
good person.
I mean, you know, he had hisminions but, um, everybody else
(21:54):
seemed to, you know, like Lidois portrayed as really sweet and
the ex wife is very virtuous andthe things that touched me the
most were When Tempest felt painand when he felt anything, even
like a hint of remorse, like hehas a quote that says,"perhaps
(22:14):
remorse will come all at oncewhen least expected, for
atonement surely must be madehere or hereafter".
Um, it's, I liked him.
I liked how textured he was.
I mean, everybody else justseemed like caricatures, flat,
(22:35):
but, it made me think, okay, sofor somebody as young as Louisa
May Alcott was when she wrotethis, she, she'd done a lot of
deep thinking to be able toportray, a wicked man,
Kat Lewis (22:47):
yeah, that's good.
That's good.
There's lots of things in herethat stand out to me.
And I think this book is, isreally impactful because it
takes what modern literature hasreally made sexy, and it shows
the side of it in a veryelongated form of there is
nothing sexy about amanipulative, rich, toxic
(23:12):
stalker man.
And I don't care how many dollarsigns come after his name.
I don't care what his, you know,annual net worth is.
And yet we have so much, so manynovels that are based around.
I mean, I'm not, So unashamed inmy, displeasure towards Fifty
Shades of Grey.
And even like there's a new,there's a relatively new novel
(23:34):
that they turned into a TV showcalled You, where it's
Micah Leydorf (23:38):
That's what I was thinking you were referring to.
Yeah.
That's what I think of when youthink of stalker romance.
Kat Lewis (23:41):
Exactly.
And it was with an actor who Iwas like, Oh, I like him.
I have no idea what this isabout.
And I was like, this is notsomething to be celebrated.
And I think that we see at somepoint Philip begins to realize
He's like, I realized that I'mway too invested in this woman
and in this chase and in this,this ownership of her, but I
can't seem to stop.
(24:02):
Right.
And then we see all this chaosand carnage around that.
But the scene that really standsout to me with visceral relief
is the scene in the monasterywhere she is confessing to the
priest thinking it's the priest.
And then Philip reveals himselfas, ha ha, it's just I, right.
(24:25):
And that in, in her response isnot this fiery indignation.
It is like weariness.
We have this whole chapter ofher trying to convince herself,
I do not love this man.
I should not love this man.
And her realizing I still haveaffinity for him.
And so when he reveals himselfafter this year, I think at this
(24:46):
point, we've been in this chasefor two years, right?
She's just weary and she justkind of lets herself be embraced
and just lets herself, like, aseven the character herself is
like, I will, I will be strongagain in a moment.
Right.
But like, just, I, I was, it wassuch a, the scene is such a
great picture of the conflict ofmorality over love.
And again, the softness that Ithink is sometimes missing from,
(25:10):
heroines in modern dayliterature.
I can appreciate just therealness of This is, this man is
her first love.
This is the first man she sleptwith.
There's all this connection tohim.
And for all of your morality,there's going to be moments,
Where, what you've invested inon earth are going to seem
overwhelming and they're goingto overpower you.
And I just thought that that wasa really great, that was a
(25:32):
really great depiction of that,but it also was a great
depiction of a shift in hermotivation.
Because when she realizes thatthis man is not changed, because
she mentions the, quietly sexyyoung priest who she's been
hanging around with Ignatius.
And the second she mentionsanother man, the monster comes
back full force.
(25:53):
And she's like, I think that'swhen she, I think that's when
her, the moral premise withwhich she left.
is reaffirmed in such a waywhere she's like, I don't think
he's ever going to change.
And I don't think I can allowmyself to be in this kind of
intimate moment with him again.
I
Laurel Thomas (26:11):
mean, if you look at the pattern of any abusive
relationship, whether it's maleor female.
The fact that it continues, Ithink is, is expressed well in
the novel that there's at firstthere's a naivete like well, he
loves me, so it should be fine,right?
(26:34):
And then more and more isrevealed in that character, but
she gets more and more attachedand is more and more invested.
in the relationship.
So with every revelation of howhard and how cruel and how
really lawless he is, she's moreinvested.
So I think, you know, when youget into like, um, ministering
(26:58):
to people who are trying to comeout of an abusive relationship,
you know, people can look andgo, well, this is like a no
brainer.
They're mean to you.
Well, Yeah, talk to Rosamund.
You know, you've got a lotinvested, and there's always
that hope that maybe they'vechanged.
Maybe they've changed, and yet,most often, they don't.
(27:24):
So, I mean, it's not that faroff track.
Kat Lewis (27:27):
Yeah, I think that that leads us into the third
question, which is like, whatare the truths about society or
the human experience that are,that's explored, confirmed, or
challenged in this novel?
And I just think that, um, it'sworth being said that,
sacrificing your innocence forsexual gratification, for
(27:48):
financial stability, for evenindependence, which are all of
those things are things thatmodern society glorifies.
And yet the numbers of domesticabuse are so high.
And yet the numbers of, youknow, young girls who grow up
and have deep regrets and deeppain and deep trauma, like this
(28:09):
book really walks you throughhow, how it begins.
Right.
There's so much action throughthis book, but I thought that
just the simple truth ofinnocence is precious.
Innocence should be valued morethan it is.
I think the reason this bookstood out to me is like
Rosamund, Rosamund's mistakesare the mistakes that I would
(28:30):
have made if not forinterventions,
Laurel Thomas (28:32):
well, she didn't have anyone.
She didn't.
And that, I think what you cansee very clearly is that's how a
predator will target someone whodoesn't have a support system
doesn't have someone saying, uh,all that glitters is not gold
and that man, you know, I thinklater Ignatius, you know, he
(28:54):
gave her very clear warnings andhe cared about her, but not when
she, Was with her uncle.
She didn't have anybody.
She really was very vulnerable.
Micah Leydorf (29:05):
I think you know what you said earlier and you
Laurel you and Melissa both saidkind of when you said it was a
morality Play and Melissa whenyou said it was like a long
Sunday school lesson.
I think that it's very muchwritten to You know flesh out
You The morality and the truthsthat Louisa May Alcott believed,
(29:27):
you know, she was like youmentioned, she was a colleague
with David Thoreau and RalphWaldo Emerson and her father was
huge in the transcendentalmovement.
And a very big belief in thatwas all about.
Like the, the, the purity of thehuman soul, without any outside
(29:53):
intervention.
It was, you know, the outsideforces of the world that,
actually poison us.
Kat Lewis (29:59):
Corrupt you.
Micah Leydorf (30:00):
Correct us.
Right.
And so I feel like that her,like you said about her being
alone, that that, there's thattheme.
That's part of the truth thatshe was trying to convey.
Um, it's about that, thatlooking to that pure,
unpoisoned, Soul that she kindof returned to that, you know,
for a moment he pulled her awayfrom yeah But then, you know, it
was stronger than all that, butI don't know if that's realistic
(30:22):
I don't know if it's realisticfor a girl who literally has no
one and who only has this evilinfluence To just from her own
bootstraps just like withstandall of the temptations I mean at
the very end she has herchampion and he makes just like
how could she have with youknow?
That takes a lot of yeahgumption.
So I don't know if that's Reallyrealistic, but again, I
(30:42):
definitely feel like that was atruth that she was that she
believed that she'd been taughtand that she was, um, flashing
out in the story.
Melissa Grace (30:51):
It was interesting.
There's some place in speakingto that, where she says
something to the effect of herwomen's nature aroused her,
yeah, there it is.
"Innocent and ignorant as shewas, the hooks, the books she
had read gave her some hints ofthe existence of sin and her
(31:11):
woman's nature warned her whenno other voice was near to
save".
Um, so I think that's, I thinkthat's interesting.
Yes.
I hadn't looked at it from theperspective of her being a part
of the transcendental movement,but the truth that I thought of
that was conveyed here and, uh,was, you know, a proverb that
(31:34):
says to the hungry, any bitterthing is sweet because that's
where he found her was juststarving, like just, and that is
a person that is a woman who isvery vulnerable
Kat Lewis (31:48):
I think that actually feeds us into our last question
of the day, which is what aspectof the craft of writing was done
exceptionally well in this book.
And I'm seeing some trendsbetween A Long Fatal Love Chase,
Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre,right.
That are based around these, youknow, lonely girls Who are, If
(32:13):
they don't spend their youngeryears abused and overlooked,
right?
They often end up they grow upand they choose these men who
are worldly and, um, deeplyflawed.
And what's interesting is Ithink that there's something to
be said for a villain, a villaincharacter that is so aware of
(32:36):
their flaws.
But like a character who'sdecided that there's no other
course for me, but to live withthis flaw and they can name
them.
Right.
So I think so often, um, it'seasy to write villains who, um,
are maybe aware of trauma, butthey're not aware of like the
flaw that's linked to thattrauma.
And so to have Philip Tempest,to have Mr.
Rochester, to have, I can'tremember the name of the guy in
(33:00):
Wuthering Heights,
Laurel Thomas (33:01):
Heathcliff
Kat Lewis (33:01):
Heathcliff Heathcliff.
And it's just very interestingfor the author to be so deeply
aware of a villain's motivation.
And even the emotional pit thata villain finds themself in.
That's one of the things I thinkthat was done really
exceptionally well in this bookis, you know, even as we talk
about like the melodrama, right,Philip is very self aware,
right?
Of what's spurring him on.
Melissa Grace (33:23):
One of the quotes that I wrote down was, I don't
think I shall be called upon toatone for my sins as they are my
father's.
Micah Leydorf (33:30):
Well, that's very modern, isn't it?
Melissa Grace (33:31):
Yes.
Kat Lewis (33:33):
What else, ladies?
What else is done exceptionallywell in this book from a craft
perspective?
Was there an element ofstorytelling that you learned or
Micah Leydorf (33:43):
well, I think we've talked about what she does
very well in like keeping yourattention and like, you know,
the cliffhanger at the end ofevery chapter, another modern
thing.
I think also just keeping theaction moving.
Um, I think that was the, the,her best skill, like just
speaking from a technicalperspective.
Yeah.
I think again, I just, I alwaysliked it.
(34:05):
Pull out the negative.
I just felt like her point ofview.
It just again.
It just made me it's funny.
There is often time we talkabout as writers about point of
view and that you need to stayin.
You know,
Melissa Grace (34:17):
that's fairly new to stay in one point of view.
Micah Leydorf (34:20):
No, but no, this is like like for instance I just
pulled out This is a descriptionof somebody like looking at
Rosamond when she's a little bitolder and it says in looking at
her one Involuntarily said quotethat woman has known great
sorrow But it will not kill herfor there was an indefinable air
of strength and courage abouther Which seemed to wonderfully
(34:40):
enhance the spell of her beauty.
Like, okay, so what randomstranger could really look at
her and say, like, that's apoint of view.
Like that person cannot knowthat.
And as an author, that's kind ofa clumsy way to communicate
that.
That's funny.
So, yeah, so I think that wasn'ther strength, but her strength
was keeping the action going,keeping, you know, like you
(35:01):
said, this multi layered villainwith all of the different and
complex.
Motivations.
Um, I literally liked Ignatiusmyself.
The champion at the end and I amgetting a funny look.
Kat Lewis (35:17):
No, no, no, no, no.
What when did the narrative ofthe good man is lame.
Where did that come from?
Because Ignatius is such a greatexample of somebody who chooses
to love you, literally seeingyou at your worst.
Like Ignatius literally savesher from this man.
Micah Leydorf (35:37):
He's Rip.
From Yellowstone.
Kat Lewis (35:41):
Yellowstone reference.
Micah Leydorf (35:42):
Everybody loves him because he sees the woman at
her worst and still loves her.
Kat Lewis (35:46):
And still loves her and, and continually chooses to,
like he, like at some point, youknow, Rosamund is still so
conflicted about whether or not.
Like, is it the easier thing tobe with Tempest or should I
stick to my morals?
And she really is waffling.
She waffles really hard aroundthe in the middle of the book.
And Ignatius just, like, lovesher through it.
He doesn't judge her.
He just gives her sound advice.
Micah Leydorf (36:08):
With no personal agenda, that's what makes you
love a hero.
It's like the self sacrifice.
Like if they have an agenda,okay, well then all, all your
good stuff is just thrown outthe window.
Melissa Grace (36:19):
It's just selfish.
Micah Leydorf (36:20):
It's all just, you're just being, um,
strategic, right?
You're not being selfless, butit's the selfless hero that we
love.
It's the one who, Withoutseeking their own first, you
know, sacrifices himself for theone that he cares about.
And that's what, you know, it'salways so attractive.
Kat Lewis (36:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And Ignatius is the one who Ithink is alive to mourn her at
the end of the book.
Right?
Like the, the, the, the, theending of the book.
Micah Leydorf (36:45):
You've given all the spoilers!
Kat Lewis (36:46):
No, no, no, I'm not, that was not a spoiler.
I will just say, The ending ofthis novel battles any Colleen
Hoover, like it right.
I just, I'm telling you, I'mtelling you it's all there in
the title.
It's all there.
It's all there in the title.
But ladies, let's, let's closeout with our character roulette,
where we throw a bunch of namesinto the hat and we pick out a
(37:10):
character and we just discusstheir significance to the plot,
what the author did well indeveloping that character.
So on and so forth.
So in the pot, we have, ofcourse, our lovely Rosamund and
the evil Tempest and the justdarling champion Ignatius.
We also have Lido, the stepson.
We've got, um, the Duke.
(37:33):
Okay.
Yes.
The man that she, yeah, the Dukethat almost snags Rosamund from
the clutches of Philip Tempest.
His daughter, the Duke'sdaughter.
The Duke's daughter.
Yes.
And the uncle, the uncle whojust kind of lets her flounder.
We have Tempest Henchman and Ican't remember his name.
Melissa Grace (37:52):
Baptiste.
Kat Lewis (37:52):
Baptiste.
You've got Baptiste.
Um, lots of juicy characters,juicy characters to discuss.
So let's stir them all up.
So many juicy things, like talkabout Talk about an author who
literally,
Laurel Thomas (38:06):
she fulfilled her assignment,
Kat Lewis (38:07):
she fulfilled her assignment and the world wasn't
ready.
Micah Leydorf (38:13):
But Kat was, well she wasn't, she wasn't born.
Melissa Grace (38:18):
She was in 1995, she was there for it then.
Kat Lewis (38:22):
Um, okay, so let's stir up the pot and let's, and
the name that we have drawn is,Lido.
Oh, yes.
Yes.
So at the beginning of the book,Rosamund thinks that it's just,
uh, a young servant boy whoTempest has kind of found an
affinity for.
But later we realized that Lidois indeed Tempest's stepson,
(38:46):
right?
Or son.
Tempest's son.
And so let's kind of talk about,like, the character of Lido in,
in You know, his impact on thestory is like, um, was there any
foreshadowing?
Was he an engine of change ortruth in the story?
Like, what are your thoughtsabout Lido in general?
Laurel Thomas (39:06):
Well, I mean, he showed up the depravity.
I mean, you know, that's aboutas bad as you can get, right?
I mean, he used his own son andthen he said his son was killed
to manipulate And he basicallyhad the child imprisoned.
(39:27):
So, yeah, he was He was a mirrorfor deep depravity in the
villain,
Micah Leydorf (39:34):
right?
It's revealed to the reader howdark and how vicious he could
truly be.
He could treat his own son insuch a way.
If you had any doubts about hisevilness, they are now
completely confirmed.
Yeah.
Again, if murdering the otherguy wasn't enough, you can now
(39:55):
know that he really has No depthto how dangerous and how evil he
could be.
Melissa Grace (40:02):
And when Lido was good because Lido was, he was
good, like all the way throughgood.
And it turned on its head, uh,Tempus.
excuse, I shall not, I don'tthink I shall be called to atone
for, for my sins, but as theyare my father's.
It made clear that everybody hastheir own choices because Lido
(40:26):
didn't follow in his footsteps.
And so Tempest, his depravitywas his own choice.
Hmm.
Kat Lewis (40:34):
And Lido is a, is a very interesting character
because he.
Response to so much of Tempestviciousness in the early part of
the story with kind of just likethis wry acceptance.
Like, he's like, yeah, that'sjust,
Melissa Grace (40:46):
that's how he is.
Kat Lewis (40:47):
That's how he is.
And we just know to avoid himwhen he gets, you know, but it
wasn't, it was not like a, itwas like a beaten down victim.
It was very much like, just likethis kind of amused is too
strong in the other direction,but he just, he knew how to
navigate it and he just wasn't.
He
Melissa Grace (41:05):
wasn't letting it in.
Kat Lewis (41:06):
He wasn't letting it in.
Like
Melissa Grace (41:07):
Tempest let his father's sins in.
He didn't, Lido didn't let hisfather's sins in.
Micah Leydorf (41:14):
So I feel like that the character of Lido does
show the skill of Louisa MayAlcott as a writer because you
think about he's a pretty minorcharacter.
You got these major protagonistsmajor villain you have this
pretty minor character but shedid use him in all the ways that
you're talking about she usedhim as a You know, plot device,
to draw the story in a certainway.
She also used him kind of, youknow, as a morality play, like
(41:34):
you're saying, she also used itjust to lighten this, the story
a little bit, to make it just alittle bit more pleasant to
read.
And it also could reveal.
Rosamund's character through herinteraction with him
Melissa Grace (41:46):
and her love for him and him, his disappearance
being a huge catalyst.
Micah Leydorf (41:52):
Right.
So I feel like she used him verysuccessfully for being such a
minor character in a lot ofdifferent ways.
So I think that does reveal herskill as a writer.
Melissa Grace (42:01):
I'm just always continually amazed that these
writers You know, back 150 yearsago, I mean, I have my Save The
Cat book and I am looking,
Micah Leydorf (42:10):
well, you've got a word processor
Melissa Grace (42:12):
and I've got a word processor and I've got all
these wonderful people tellingme how to write a novel and
where did she get it?
I mean, you know, how did shefigure it out?
They were
Laurel Thomas (42:22):
very literary.
I mean, I think our, in ourculture, there's been this bias
that, you know, that we have a,a handle on all things worldly
and literary and, uh, no, I allyou have to do is read, you
know, Charles Dickens and theywere with literary friends.
(42:42):
It was their, it was theirworld.
Micah Leydorf (42:45):
So basically, I mean, I love you guys.
And I was even thinking as I wasdriving over here to record this
podcast with you all, you know,again, we've said before that we
originally met as a fictioncritique group.
I was thinking about how much,you know, You guys have been
part of, like, my personaljourney, and I feel like, oh, I
(43:05):
couldn't be where I was if Ididn't have these friends to
help me.
But that's what their wholeworld was.
Like I say, they lived in thislittle commune, basically, in
Massachusetts.
So their world was like afiction critique group.
When you think about like theBronte sisters, you know, you
talked about Heathcliff andWuthering Heights.
Oh my gosh, they were soprolific.
(43:25):
And they literally walked aroundtheir living room for exercise
every day.
Like no interaction with theoutside world, but they had each
other and they had all thebooks.
Right?
You know, we talked about ScrewTape Letters last week and the
inklings.
That's part of probably why youhad all of this coming out with
the Lord of the Rings and C.
(43:47):
S.
Lewis and you know, all of thesethings in that they were.
Together they were talking aboutthese things.
So there's a lot to be said forsurrounding yourself with others
who are similarly minded.
Laurel Thomas (43:58):
And I miss that.
Kat Lewis (43:59):
That's so good.
That's so good.
Well, you guys, thank you forbeing a part of our little
writing community and forcing usto be better so we can bring
these things to you guys.
Feel free to touch base with usnext month for our next episode.
Hang out with us on Instagramuntil then, and we will see you
guys in just a little bit.
Micah Leydorf (44:19):
Bye.
Laurel Thomas (44:20):
Bye.
Melissa Grace (44:21):
Bye.
Welcome everyone to the seventh episode of the
Stories That Change Us podcast.
My name is Kat Lewis and I amhere with some of my lovely
writer friends, Michael Leydorf,Melissa Grace and Laurel Thomas.
And this week as we arerecovering from all things,
holidays and super bowl, wedecided to decompress with one
(00:23):
of Louisa May Alcott's lesserknown novels, but still quite
engaging and enthralling, A LongFatal Love Chase.
This is a, one of Louisa MayAlcott's, um, lesser known
works.
And I think it's tragic becausethis book is so good.
I grew up with this novel.
This novel was a staple in theLewis household.
(00:44):
I, as we get into it, I don'tknow if that's going to be a pro
or a con.
We'll see.
But what about just reactionsacross the room?
Like, Had anybody else read thisbook before or was this like a
brand new journey for the group?
Laurel Thomas (00:56):
Well, my name is Laurel and I, so I knew that Kat
had read this book when she wasa young Kat.
And so I love that.
I loved the, that picture as Iwas reading, imagining our
spirited friend, And how muchlike Rosamund she was and all of
(01:17):
the Gothic romance stuff, youknow, it was just, to me, it was
a blast.
And I could imagine that LouisaMay Alcott said, you know what,
I'm just going to go for theweekend, have a good time and
write a novel.
Kat Lewis (01:30):
With all the things, all the things, all the danger
in the romance,
Laurel Thomas (01:36):
and she did.
Kat Lewis (01:38):
That's awesome.
Micah Leydorf (01:39):
Well, this is Micah Leydorf, and no, I had
never heard of this novel bysuch a famous author.
We've heard so much about LittleWomen.
We've had umpteen filmadaptations.
You know, everybody read it inelementary school, and yet,
we've never heard of LittleWomen.
This one.
So I was intrigued that you,Kat, said how it was your
favorite, and like Laurel said,it was, you know, a little bit
(02:01):
of window into your soul.
That said, when I read it, um,you know, since this is a show
about these classics forauthors, I did find myself
thinking, oh, okay.
Okay.
This is, you know, veryobviously maybe her first novel,
you know, versus like then, youknow, her skills and her craft,
(02:24):
as Laurel likes to say, grewover the years.
And so I feel like there's areason why the characters of
Little Women are so real to usthat we talk about them like
they're regular people and theystick with us.
And why.
We read this, um, about a monthago because we got delayed
because of the ice storm fromtalking about it.
(02:44):
And we're like, what were thosecharacters names again?
Like, that's how I was.
So I feel like there's a reasonwhy, um, you know, Little Women
is so enduring.
And, and why this novel, whilefun to read, especially because
it gives us, you know, a windowinto our friend.
Um, But it wasn't the criticallyacclaimed novel or the success
(03:05):
that Little Women was.
I think there's some lessons tobe learned from that as we
discuss.
Melissa Grace (03:09):
Well, this is Melissa Grace.
I agree that it lacked maybesome polish, but I have to say
that I read the very first pageand my first thought was the
melodrama of the melodrama.
And then my second thought was,When can I read again?
(03:29):
You know, it was like, I wanted,she hooked me into this world
and I wanted to come back tothis world until I knew how the
story ended.
So even though it wasn't, youknow, even though there was some
melodrama and that it'sinteresting because, you know,
(03:49):
as a writer, the first time Idid, you know, wrote my first
manuscript, I went back andlooked at it and went, Oh, the
melodrama.
So I understood.
A
Kat Lewis (04:02):
little backstory on where A Long Fatal Love Chase
falls in Louisa May Alcott'swriting career.
So she had written, um, kind ofthese Y a sweet letters.
Um, I think it's, uh, flowers inbloom or rose in bloom.
It was like a collection ofpoets.
Fun fact about Louisa MayAlcott.
(04:22):
She was Waldo Emerson's nannyfor his daughter.
And so she wrote a lot of her YAstuff for his daughter just to
keep her occupied.
Okay.
And when Waldo Emerson realized,this person has talent.
He actually requested a juicy,spicy.
(04:42):
novel, right?
And he was like, I need it tobe, he had some kind of specific
qualifications.
It needs to be a thriller.
It needs to be 24 chapters.
Every second chapter needs toend on a cliffhanger.
So the audience keeps returningand Louisa May Alcott produces
this novel, this dark,thrilling, stalker romance,
(05:03):
right?
And, uh, turns it in and hebasically says, Yeah, you went a
little too far.
That's a little too much.
Laurel Thomas (05:12):
I don't know.
How unlike Twilight is it
Kat Lewis (05:16):
really?
You know, um, and so she wrotethis novel in 1966.
She wrote Little Women directlyafter, I'm sorry, 1866.
Thank you.
Louisa May Alcott wrote thisnovel in 1866 and she proceeded
to write Little Women two yearslater, I guess when she thought,
when the palates of the audiencechanges, I'll just.
(05:38):
whip A Long Fatal Love Chaseback out again.
So she actually tucked it awayand died with it unpublished.
And it got mislabeled by someBritish archivists, as a
different story, they didn'trediscover this novel until,
until 1995 and it wasrepublished in 95.
And when it was republished, itwas on fire.
(05:59):
It was absolutely on fire.
People were like, this is aLouisa May Alcott I've never
seen before.
But, I would compare this novelto Jane Eyre in some ways, um,
just with like that dark Gothicromance.
And I think she tugged on thestrings of some other more
(06:19):
popular gothic romances and shedid everything in this novel,
which probably why it feelslike, why it feels a little
melodramatic, but I loved it.
I loved it.
Melissa Grace (06:29):
Um, like I said, I couldn't get away from it.
I had to come back and finishit.
Micah Leydorf (06:34):
Yeah, I think I was, I was looking at a little
bit of research about it.
There's like the term potboiler,which I wasn't actually familiar
with that, but it's a gothicthriller.
Yeah.
Potboiler.
And that is the idea of, youknow, like keeping people in
suspense, which of course ismuch more modern now.
Right.
Then it was, then, you know, youthink about, um, you know, Jane
Austen and it's like, that's aslow burn, not exactly, exactly.
Kat Lewis (06:57):
And slow burn women's fiction around like the mundane
feminine.
experience versus, you know,swashbuckling, swashbuckling,
all the things.
Okay.
So to that end, I, again, Ithink it's really fun that like,
you guys are not familiar withthis novel at all.
What was a quote that stood outto you guys as an excellent
(07:20):
example of tension, author'svoice, or character development?
And you guys know the drill withStories That Change Us.
We do our four questions and acharacter roulette.
So this is question number oneto kind of get our writer brains
thinking about what this authorexecuted really well.
Maybe where they fell down andhow there's application for a
modern audience.
Micah Leydorf (07:41):
So I kind of broke the rules, but I guess
that's sometimes allowed to dothat.
So again, like I, I can see theappeal of this, but you know, I
can say what stood out to mejust a little bit more were more
of the, the idiosyncrasies of,you know, again, of like a
writer before she's kind ofreally hit her groove.
So like some of the quotes thatI just thought were funny
(08:03):
almost, like, so for instance,um, Uh, like this naive belief
and kind of unabashed pride inEnglish superiority.
Like, did you guys catch that?
Like one of them, I'm looking,it's like,"if you knock an
Englishman down in a fair fight,he will respect you ever
afterward".
Like that wasn't it?
Yeah.
You know, it was like, Oh, likeEnglishmen are just so
(08:26):
honorable.
And then another one was kind ofthe more hilarious.
Just even the physicalattributes.
This was with"the perfectoutlines of neck and shoulder,
which one only sees in England".
Oh! Wow! Okay! Okay! Um, butagain, I, I read it as like,
okay, this is this naive younggirl who this is the way she
(08:47):
views the world.
And actually, I, when I wasreading it, I could see Joe.
In her Garrett, like, you know,she was working on her novel,
you know, that Amy later burned.
And I was like, this is Joe'snovel.
Joe is up in that Garrettwriting this novel.
She was writing the Gothicthriller and she loved it.
And she loved her characters,but she was just a girl then.
(09:10):
And, you know, with all of herlittle idealistic, naive ideas
about romance and life and theway it goes and dreaming about
adventures that she'd never had.
Versus like whenever she wroteLittle Women where it's like,
okay, this rings true becausethis was her life.
And they always say, you know,write what you know.
And that's what, again, soagain, that those were the
(09:31):
things that just kind of stoodout to me.
The little quotes are just kindof like, Oh, it's, it's funny.
Kat Lewis (09:34):
No, I, I think we'll, we're going to find a lot of
similarities between Joe'swriting journey that we see in
little women and like elementsthat are pulled on in this
novel, because This novelrepresents all the things that
went unpublished in Joe's earlywriting career that like drove
her crazy, right?
Everybody was like, that's toomuch.
(09:55):
That's too dramatic.
That's not realistic.
And I can, I'm sensing, youknow, tendrils of that same
belief in what you're saying,Micah.
So what else, what other, whatother quotes stood out to us?
Laurel Thomas (10:07):
I thought it was interesting how the whole
seduction begins in a, uh, Idon't have this specific quote,
but she's saying, I wish I hadall the pleasure I could ever
have.
She said, my life is, had suchlittle pleasure and I'm willing
to find out what a life thatjust filled with pleasure would
(10:28):
be like.
And he, he says some interestingthings.
He says, well, would you wantthat pleasure at expense of
honesty?
Or honor.
Micah Leydorf (10:39):
So should we fill people in a little bit on the
plot?
So since most people are notfamiliar with the plot.
Kat Lewis (10:44):
That's a great idea, Micah.
So brief, spoiler free rundownof the plot.
You have a young 18 year oldRosamund Vivian.
Sheltered.
Very sheltered, but shelteredwith a guardian who does not
show her affection, I think it'sher uncle or something who
(11:05):
basically takes her in after herparents died.
And the book kind of opens withRosamund.
basically saying I've lived alife unloved and I would give
anything to go and experienceindependence and freedom and
passion.
Right.
And very shortly after that, weare introduced to one of her
uncle's associates.
His name is Philip Tempest.
(11:26):
He is dashing, handsome, older,experienced And steadily begins
to turn innocent Rosamond's Headand long story short, they ended
up getting married and going offand living this wonderful life
until a secret of Phillipsdestroys her little temple of
happiness.
And she realizes that she isstepped into this life of a
(11:50):
married woman based on a lie.
And it's not a lie that hercharacter will allow her to
continue forward.
So what does she do?
She runs away from this manthinking, You know what?
There's not a lot of options forwomen in this time to make
money, but I'm going to figureit out.
What she did not count on wasPhilip deciding, no, this is the
woman that I love and you don'tget to leave me without my say
(12:12):
so.
And it begins this literal.
Long, fatal, love chase aroundthe world across years.
This book takes place overyears.
Of a kind of stalker romance.
I was going to say a stalkerromance gone bad, but stalker
romances to aspire to.
(12:38):
And we'll get into my issueswith book reviewers having an
issue with How Philip Tempest isportrayed and yet ignoring,
there's a whole new genre andcontemporary romance of stalker
romance.
And so we have an issue withthe.
19th century stalker, but wedon't have an issue with the
21st century stalker.
(12:58):
Just, you know, food forthought.
Laurel Thomas (13:00):
Well, and it's kind of a progression because he
pulls on the very desire of herheart, which is for freedom.
Which she's not had.
Gradually, what happens is thatshe pursues, as she gets closer
to Philip Tampus, the lessfreedom she has and the more she
finds a prison.
(13:21):
And so it's just an interesting,I feel, I hear a lot of morality
play in this story.
You don't have to guess what'sgoing on here.
If you, uh, but I, I don't thinkit's any, even though the times
are totally different.
I mean, we have young adultStories like this abound.
(13:42):
She's being seduced to believethat a relationship is going to
be great and wonderful and it'sawful.
Yeah.
But then she's stuck and shecan't get out.
So anyway, I thought she did anartful job of showing how sad
(14:03):
that a young girl, all the younggirl wanted was to be loved and
to be free.
And yet, pursuing that freedomand pursuing that love in the
wrong place, she ended up in aprison.
Melissa Grace (14:14):
Well, and to me, it felt like a very long Sunday
school lesson.
I didn't see a lot of nuance.
I mean, like the good characterswere very, very good.
The bad characters were very,very bad.
Um, and I just, again, that goesback to the kind of immaturity
of the writer, She still made itwork, you know, as long as like
(14:38):
her storytelling was strongenough that I was like, okay,
that, you know, yes, I, I feellike it's a little moralizing,
but her storytelling is stillgot me and 1 of the quotes that,
um, her, um, her championIgnatius.
Tells her,"my child, never goback to this man.
(15:01):
I know him.
And if I dared sell yourinnocence with such knowledge, I
would tell you the history ofhis life.
You love him still and struggleagainst your love, feeling that
it will undo you.
He knows this, and he will temptyou by every lure he can devise,
every deceit he can employ.
Sorrow and sin will surelyfollow if you yield.
Happiness never can be yours.
(15:22):
With him, doubt, remorse andself reproach will kill love,
and a time will come when youwill find that in gaining a
brief joy, you have lost yourpeace forever".
And to me that is, it's Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's really late in thebook.
But, um, it is the statementtheme, the theme statement
Kat Lewis (15:44):
I would maybe debate that there's not nuance only
because when you look at likethe modern heroine that we see
in like, you know, these strongfemale centric stories, um,
sometimes I think that like the.
emotional impact of love andaffection is sometimes glossed
(16:04):
over with stoicism.
Like, and with like modernlogic.
So, you know, the modern femaleis not going to have these
moments of weakness where she'slike, I know this is the wrong
thing.
And I'm going to lean into thewrong thing for just a second
right before my morality snapsme forward,
Melissa Grace (16:21):
but wouldn't that be a good character who did
that?
That would be a great.
Kat Lewis (16:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
She shows us that she, shereminds us that, you know, um,
that, um, I hate anything thatsounds like Disney's follow your
heart, but she just reminds youthat, love does impact us.
And even for strong people, wehave moments of weakness and we
(16:46):
see this weakness.
The weaknesses where every timeRosamund has a moment of
weakness is always in PhilipTempest, you know, weedles his
way back in, right?
But I do think that there'snuance in the fact that When you
truly care for somebody,especially a first love there's
a lot more things to battle thanjust like, let me just
straighten my spine and do theright thing.
Melissa Grace (17:08):
She did do that.
Well, she did do that.
Well, the character development,bringing her from that just wide
eyed first love to seeing.
Laurel Thomas (17:19):
Her point of view was true.
She was incredibly sheltered,and that's what Philip Tempest,
that's what he notices.
That's what gets his attention.
It's almost like, you know,fresh blood.
blood, right?
He, he sees her innocence.
He sees just the simplicity andthe, and the fact that she's
(17:40):
been so sheltered.
And you know, to me, it's like,wow getting into a relationship,
not knowing what love is at alland falling into that
relationship with Philip Tempestand to me, that's a universal.
How do you know until sometimesyou see love in the opposite
(18:03):
form?
You see, okay, it's not that.
Melissa Grace (18:06):
Right.
Laurel Thomas (18:06):
And I felt like Rosamund, she, that was her
story.
Okay.
I wanted love.
I wanted freedom, but this isnot it.
But it's, it's a struggle, likeKat said.
Kat Lewis (18:19):
And, you know, going back to like a quote that
reveals character, I was tryingto find, I was like, what's an
early indication of Tempest'scharacter?
Cause it's kind of, the story istold from like this, it feels
like omniscient third personPOV, right?
Where the author's Very activelydropping these hints.
And, in the very first chapter,it says that, um,"most men would
(18:40):
have been touched by theinnocent confessions of the
girl, but this man's heart hadgrown hard with years of
selfishness.
And he merely enjoyed her as hewould have done a lovely flower
and exciting book or apassionate song".
I love there's, there's the slowbuild into the reveal of this
character and the reveal of thisbetrayal and all these things.
(19:01):
But, um, I, I think that quoteis a really great example of how
can you sum up the kind of manwho literally is being
entertained by young girlsinnocence?
Who, um, and later on, I thinkin chapter three, when they're
on the boat.
You know, he says something tothe degree of, I wanted to test
(19:21):
this moral code that you had.
I wanted to see if it was asstrong as my determination.
And so what Rosamond senses isadmiration for her.
Really?
He's like, this is just achallenge.
Like I've not met somebody who'sso sheltered yet has such a
strong sense of self.
And I'm going to test the limitsof this thing.
And I think, for me, that's whatkept drawing me in.
(19:43):
And I was like, I.
As the reader, I'm like, I knowhe's going to test her and I
want to see how she holds up tothese things.
And, um, and it was, it was along wild ride for us to see
the, uh, the conclusion of this,but going on to our next
question here, what is a momentin the story that stands out
with visceral relief and kind oftalk us through the storytelling
(20:07):
techniques that make this assuccessful scene.
Laurel Thomas (20:11):
Well, I thought the resolution was pretty good
because he had seen, uh, theimage in the mirror and she,
this is at the very beginningand she said, what do you see?
Is it a magic mirror?
And he said, I see a young,lovely woman dead with,
inconsolable old man hoveringover her and a man looking on
(20:34):
who is beyond despair.
Yeah.
Um, and a despair that he hasnever experienced before.
And so, of course, then when wetalk about mirror images, then
that essentially is the end.
Kat Lewis (20:51):
So foreshadowing
Laurel Thomas (20:53):
Yeah, I mean I was just thinking mirror image
because we get that at the verybeginning and then we get at the
very end So
Micah Leydorf (20:59):
Right.
If you talk about Save The Cat,which we've mentioned before,
the closing scene and theopening and should kind of
reflect one another.
So that's when again, she didn'thave Save The Cat.
I
Laurel Thomas (21:13):
think she was a genius or something.
Melissa Grace (21:16):
I thought that the scenes with the child, and
I'm sorry, I don't, I don't, um,
Kat Lewis (21:22):
Lido.
Melissa Grace (21:23):
Lido.
Yes.
That the scenes with the child,and this
Micah Leydorf (21:26):
was her stepson, yes,
Melissa Grace (21:29):
but we didn't know at the time it was her
stepson..
I just thought it was veryinteresting how all the, like,
um, Tempest was most definitelythe antagonist.
Um, and Like it seemed likeeveryone surrounding him was a
good person.
I mean, you know, he had hisminions but, um, everybody else
(21:54):
seemed to, you know, like Lidois portrayed as really sweet and
the ex wife is very virtuous andthe things that touched me the
most were When Tempest felt painand when he felt anything, even
like a hint of remorse, like hehas a quote that says,"perhaps
(22:14):
remorse will come all at oncewhen least expected, for
atonement surely must be madehere or hereafter".
Um, it's, I liked him.
I liked how textured he was.
I mean, everybody else justseemed like caricatures, flat,
(22:35):
but, it made me think, okay, sofor somebody as young as Louisa
May Alcott was when she wrotethis, she, she'd done a lot of
deep thinking to be able toportray, a wicked man,
Kat Lewis (22:47):
yeah, that's good.
That's good.
There's lots of things in herethat stand out to me.
And I think this book is, isreally impactful because it
takes what modern literature hasreally made sexy, and it shows
the side of it in a veryelongated form of there is
nothing sexy about amanipulative, rich, toxic
(23:12):
stalker man.
And I don't care how many dollarsigns come after his name.
I don't care what his, you know,annual net worth is.
And yet we have so much, so manynovels that are based around.
I mean, I'm not, So unashamed inmy, displeasure towards Fifty
Shades of Grey.
And even like there's a new,there's a relatively new novel
(23:34):
that they turned into a TV showcalled You, where it's
Micah Leydorf (23:38):
That's what I was thinking you were referring to.
Yeah.
That's what I think of when youthink of stalker romance.
Kat Lewis (23:41):
Exactly.
And it was with an actor who Iwas like, Oh, I like him.
I have no idea what this isabout.
And I was like, this is notsomething to be celebrated.
And I think that we see at somepoint Philip begins to realize
He's like, I realized that I'mway too invested in this woman
and in this chase and in this,this ownership of her, but I
can't seem to stop.
(24:02):
Right.
And then we see all this chaosand carnage around that.
But the scene that really standsout to me with visceral relief
is the scene in the monasterywhere she is confessing to the
priest thinking it's the priest.
And then Philip reveals himselfas, ha ha, it's just I, right.
(24:25):
And that in, in her response isnot this fiery indignation.
It is like weariness.
We have this whole chapter ofher trying to convince herself,
I do not love this man.
I should not love this man.
And her realizing I still haveaffinity for him.
And so when he reveals himselfafter this year, I think at this
(24:46):
point, we've been in this chasefor two years, right?
She's just weary and she justkind of lets herself be embraced
and just lets herself, like, aseven the character herself is
like, I will, I will be strongagain in a moment.
Right.
But like, just, I, I was, it wassuch a, the scene is such a
great picture of the conflict ofmorality over love.
And again, the softness that Ithink is sometimes missing from,
(25:10):
heroines in modern dayliterature.
I can appreciate just therealness of This is, this man is
her first love.
This is the first man she sleptwith.
There's all this connection tohim.
And for all of your morality,there's going to be moments,
Where, what you've invested inon earth are going to seem
overwhelming and they're goingto overpower you.
And I just thought that that wasa really great, that was a
(25:32):
really great depiction of that,but it also was a great
depiction of a shift in hermotivation.
Because when she realizes thatthis man is not changed, because
she mentions the, quietly sexyyoung priest who she's been
hanging around with Ignatius.
And the second she mentionsanother man, the monster comes
back full force.
(25:53):
And she's like, I think that'swhen she, I think that's when
her, the moral premise withwhich she left.
is reaffirmed in such a waywhere she's like, I don't think
he's ever going to change.
And I don't think I can allowmyself to be in this kind of
intimate moment with him again.
I
Laurel Thomas (26:11):
mean, if you look at the pattern of any abusive
relationship, whether it's maleor female.
The fact that it continues, Ithink is, is expressed well in
the novel that there's at firstthere's a naivete like well, he
loves me, so it should be fine,right?
(26:34):
And then more and more isrevealed in that character, but
she gets more and more attachedand is more and more invested.
in the relationship.
So with every revelation of howhard and how cruel and how
really lawless he is, she's moreinvested.
So I think, you know, when youget into like, um, ministering
(26:58):
to people who are trying to comeout of an abusive relationship,
you know, people can look andgo, well, this is like a no
brainer.
They're mean to you.
Well, Yeah, talk to Rosamund.
You know, you've got a lotinvested, and there's always
that hope that maybe they'vechanged.
Maybe they've changed, and yet,most often, they don't.
(27:24):
So, I mean, it's not that faroff track.
Kat Lewis (27:27):
Yeah, I think that that leads us into the third
question, which is like, whatare the truths about society or
the human experience that are,that's explored, confirmed, or
challenged in this novel?
And I just think that, um, it'sworth being said that,
sacrificing your innocence forsexual gratification, for
(27:48):
financial stability, for evenindependence, which are all of
those things are things thatmodern society glorifies.
And yet the numbers of domesticabuse are so high.
And yet the numbers of, youknow, young girls who grow up
and have deep regrets and deeppain and deep trauma, like this
(28:09):
book really walks you throughhow, how it begins.
Right.
There's so much action throughthis book, but I thought that
just the simple truth ofinnocence is precious.
Innocence should be valued morethan it is.
I think the reason this bookstood out to me is like
Rosamund, Rosamund's mistakesare the mistakes that I would
(28:30):
have made if not forinterventions,
Laurel Thomas (28:32):
well, she didn't have anyone.
She didn't.
And that, I think what you cansee very clearly is that's how a
predator will target someone whodoesn't have a support system
doesn't have someone saying, uh,all that glitters is not gold
and that man, you know, I thinklater Ignatius, you know, he
(28:54):
gave her very clear warnings andhe cared about her, but not when
she, Was with her uncle.
She didn't have anybody.
She really was very vulnerable.
Micah Leydorf (29:05):
I think you know what you said earlier and you
Laurel you and Melissa both saidkind of when you said it was a
morality Play and Melissa whenyou said it was like a long
Sunday school lesson.
I think that it's very muchwritten to You know flesh out
You The morality and the truthsthat Louisa May Alcott believed,
(29:27):
you know, she was like youmentioned, she was a colleague
with David Thoreau and RalphWaldo Emerson and her father was
huge in the transcendentalmovement.
And a very big belief in thatwas all about.
Like the, the, the purity of thehuman soul, without any outside
(29:53):
intervention.
It was, you know, the outsideforces of the world that,
actually poison us.
Kat Lewis (29:59):
Corrupt you.
Micah Leydorf (30:00):
Correct us.
Right.
And so I feel like that her,like you said about her being
alone, that that, there's thattheme.
That's part of the truth thatshe was trying to convey.
Um, it's about that, thatlooking to that pure,
unpoisoned, Soul that she kindof returned to that, you know,
for a moment he pulled her awayfrom yeah But then, you know, it
was stronger than all that, butI don't know if that's realistic
(30:22):
I don't know if it's realisticfor a girl who literally has no
one and who only has this evilinfluence To just from her own
bootstraps just like withstandall of the temptations I mean at
the very end she has herchampion and he makes just like
how could she have with youknow?
That takes a lot of yeahgumption.
So I don't know if that's Reallyrealistic, but again, I
(30:42):
definitely feel like that was atruth that she was that she
believed that she'd been taughtand that she was, um, flashing
out in the story.
Melissa Grace (30:51):
It was interesting.
There's some place in speakingto that, where she says
something to the effect of herwomen's nature aroused her,
yeah, there it is.
"Innocent and ignorant as shewas, the hooks, the books she
had read gave her some hints ofthe existence of sin and her
(31:11):
woman's nature warned her whenno other voice was near to
save".
Um, so I think that's, I thinkthat's interesting.
Yes.
I hadn't looked at it from theperspective of her being a part
of the transcendental movement,but the truth that I thought of
that was conveyed here and, uh,was, you know, a proverb that
(31:34):
says to the hungry, any bitterthing is sweet because that's
where he found her was juststarving, like just, and that is
a person that is a woman who isvery vulnerable
Kat Lewis (31:48):
I think that actually feeds us into our last question
of the day, which is what aspectof the craft of writing was done
exceptionally well in this book.
And I'm seeing some trendsbetween A Long Fatal Love Chase,
Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre,right.
That are based around these, youknow, lonely girls Who are, If
(32:13):
they don't spend their youngeryears abused and overlooked,
right?
They often end up they grow upand they choose these men who
are worldly and, um, deeplyflawed.
And what's interesting is Ithink that there's something to
be said for a villain, a villaincharacter that is so aware of
(32:36):
their flaws.
But like a character who'sdecided that there's no other
course for me, but to live withthis flaw and they can name
them.
Right.
So I think so often, um, it'seasy to write villains who, um,
are maybe aware of trauma, butthey're not aware of like the
flaw that's linked to thattrauma.
And so to have Philip Tempest,to have Mr.
Rochester, to have, I can'tremember the name of the guy in
(33:00):
Wuthering Heights,
Laurel Thomas (33:01):
Heathcliff
Kat Lewis (33:01):
Heathcliff Heathcliff.
And it's just very interestingfor the author to be so deeply
aware of a villain's motivation.
And even the emotional pit thata villain finds themself in.
That's one of the things I thinkthat was done really
exceptionally well in this bookis, you know, even as we talk
about like the melodrama, right,Philip is very self aware,
right?
Of what's spurring him on.
Melissa Grace (33:23):
One of the quotes that I wrote down was, I don't
think I shall be called upon toatone for my sins as they are my
father's.
Micah Leydorf (33:30):
Well, that's very modern, isn't it?
Melissa Grace (33:31):
Yes.
Kat Lewis (33:33):
What else, ladies?
What else is done exceptionallywell in this book from a craft
perspective?
Was there an element ofstorytelling that you learned or
Micah Leydorf (33:43):
well, I think we've talked about what she does
very well in like keeping yourattention and like, you know,
the cliffhanger at the end ofevery chapter, another modern
thing.
I think also just keeping theaction moving.
Um, I think that was the, the,her best skill, like just
speaking from a technicalperspective.
Yeah.
I think again, I just, I alwaysliked it.
(34:05):
Pull out the negative.
I just felt like her point ofview.
It just again.
It just made me it's funny.
There is often time we talkabout as writers about point of
view and that you need to stayin.
You know,
Melissa Grace (34:17):
that's fairly new to stay in one point of view.
Micah Leydorf (34:20):
No, but no, this is like like for instance I just
pulled out This is a descriptionof somebody like looking at
Rosamond when she's a little bitolder and it says in looking at
her one Involuntarily said quotethat woman has known great
sorrow But it will not kill herfor there was an indefinable air
of strength and courage abouther Which seemed to wonderfully
(34:40):
enhance the spell of her beauty.
Like, okay, so what randomstranger could really look at
her and say, like, that's apoint of view.
Like that person cannot knowthat.
And as an author, that's kind ofa clumsy way to communicate
that.
That's funny.
So, yeah, so I think that wasn'ther strength, but her strength
was keeping the action going,keeping, you know, like you
(35:01):
said, this multi layered villainwith all of the different and
complex.
Motivations.
Um, I literally liked Ignatiusmyself.
The champion at the end and I amgetting a funny look.
Kat Lewis (35:17):
No, no, no, no, no.
What when did the narrative ofthe good man is lame.
Where did that come from?
Because Ignatius is such a greatexample of somebody who chooses
to love you, literally seeingyou at your worst.
Like Ignatius literally savesher from this man.
Micah Leydorf (35:37):
He's Rip.
From Yellowstone.
Kat Lewis (35:41):
Yellowstone reference.
Micah Leydorf (35:42):
Everybody loves him because he sees the woman at
her worst and still loves her.
Kat Lewis (35:46):
And still loves her and, and continually chooses to,
like he, like at some point, youknow, Rosamund is still so
conflicted about whether or not.
Like, is it the easier thing tobe with Tempest or should I
stick to my morals?
And she really is waffling.
She waffles really hard aroundthe in the middle of the book.
And Ignatius just, like, lovesher through it.
He doesn't judge her.
He just gives her sound advice.
Micah Leydorf (36:08):
With no personal agenda, that's what makes you
love a hero.
It's like the self sacrifice.
Like if they have an agenda,okay, well then all, all your
good stuff is just thrown outthe window.
Melissa Grace (36:19):
It's just selfish.
Micah Leydorf (36:20):
It's all just, you're just being, um,
strategic, right?
You're not being selfless, butit's the selfless hero that we
love.
It's the one who, Withoutseeking their own first, you
know, sacrifices himself for theone that he cares about.
And that's what, you know, it'salways so attractive.
Kat Lewis (36:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And Ignatius is the one who Ithink is alive to mourn her at
the end of the book.
Right?
Like the, the, the, the, theending of the book.
Micah Leydorf (36:45):
You've given all the spoilers!
Kat Lewis (36:46):
No, no, no, I'm not, that was not a spoiler.
I will just say, The ending ofthis novel battles any Colleen
Hoover, like it right.
I just, I'm telling you, I'mtelling you it's all there in
the title.
It's all there.
It's all there in the title.
But ladies, let's, let's closeout with our character roulette,
where we throw a bunch of namesinto the hat and we pick out a
(37:10):
character and we just discusstheir significance to the plot,
what the author did well indeveloping that character.
So on and so forth.
So in the pot, we have, ofcourse, our lovely Rosamund and
the evil Tempest and the justdarling champion Ignatius.
We also have Lido, the stepson.
We've got, um, the Duke.
(37:33):
Okay.
Yes.
The man that she, yeah, the Dukethat almost snags Rosamund from
the clutches of Philip Tempest.
His daughter, the Duke'sdaughter.
The Duke's daughter.
Yes.
And the uncle, the uncle whojust kind of lets her flounder.
We have Tempest Henchman and Ican't remember his name.
Melissa Grace (37:52):
Baptiste.
Kat Lewis (37:52):
Baptiste.
You've got Baptiste.
Um, lots of juicy characters,juicy characters to discuss.
So let's stir them all up.
So many juicy things, like talkabout Talk about an author who
literally,
Laurel Thomas (38:06):
she fulfilled her assignment,
Kat Lewis (38:07):
she fulfilled her assignment and the world wasn't
ready.
Micah Leydorf (38:13):
But Kat was, well she wasn't, she wasn't born.
Melissa Grace (38:18):
She was in 1995, she was there for it then.
Kat Lewis (38:22):
Um, okay, so let's stir up the pot and let's, and
the name that we have drawn is,Lido.
Oh, yes.
Yes.
So at the beginning of the book,Rosamund thinks that it's just,
uh, a young servant boy whoTempest has kind of found an
affinity for.
But later we realized that Lidois indeed Tempest's stepson,
(38:46):
right?
Or son.
Tempest's son.
And so let's kind of talk about,like, the character of Lido in,
in You know, his impact on thestory is like, um, was there any
foreshadowing?
Was he an engine of change ortruth in the story?
Like, what are your thoughtsabout Lido in general?
Laurel Thomas (39:06):
Well, I mean, he showed up the depravity.
I mean, you know, that's aboutas bad as you can get, right?
I mean, he used his own son andthen he said his son was killed
to manipulate And he basicallyhad the child imprisoned.
(39:27):
So, yeah, he was He was a mirrorfor deep depravity in the
villain,
Micah Leydorf (39:34):
right?
It's revealed to the reader howdark and how vicious he could
truly be.
He could treat his own son insuch a way.
If you had any doubts about hisevilness, they are now
completely confirmed.
Yeah.
Again, if murdering the otherguy wasn't enough, you can now
(39:55):
know that he really has No depthto how dangerous and how evil he
could be.
Melissa Grace (40:02):
And when Lido was good because Lido was, he was
good, like all the way throughgood.
And it turned on its head, uh,Tempus.
excuse, I shall not, I don'tthink I shall be called to atone
for, for my sins, but as theyare my father's.
It made clear that everybody hastheir own choices because Lido
(40:26):
didn't follow in his footsteps.
And so Tempest, his depravitywas his own choice.
Hmm.
Kat Lewis (40:34):
And Lido is a, is a very interesting character
because he.
Response to so much of Tempestviciousness in the early part of
the story with kind of just likethis wry acceptance.
Like, he's like, yeah, that'sjust,
Melissa Grace (40:46):
that's how he is.
Kat Lewis (40:47):
That's how he is.
And we just know to avoid himwhen he gets, you know, but it
wasn't, it was not like a, itwas like a beaten down victim.
It was very much like, just likethis kind of amused is too
strong in the other direction,but he just, he knew how to
navigate it and he just wasn't.
He
Melissa Grace (41:05):
wasn't letting it in.
Kat Lewis (41:06):
He wasn't letting it in.
Like
Melissa Grace (41:07):
Tempest let his father's sins in.
He didn't, Lido didn't let hisfather's sins in.
Micah Leydorf (41:14):
So I feel like that the character of Lido does
show the skill of Louisa MayAlcott as a writer because you
think about he's a pretty minorcharacter.
You got these major protagonistsmajor villain you have this
pretty minor character but shedid use him in all the ways that
you're talking about she usedhim as a You know, plot device,
to draw the story in a certainway.
She also used him kind of, youknow, as a morality play, like
(41:34):
you're saying, she also used itjust to lighten this, the story
a little bit, to make it just alittle bit more pleasant to
read.
And it also could reveal.
Rosamund's character through herinteraction with him
Melissa Grace (41:46):
and her love for him and him, his disappearance
being a huge catalyst.
Micah Leydorf (41:52):
Right.
So I feel like she used him verysuccessfully for being such a
minor character in a lot ofdifferent ways.
So I think that does reveal herskill as a writer.
Melissa Grace (42:01):
I'm just always continually amazed that these
writers You know, back 150 yearsago, I mean, I have my Save The
Cat book and I am looking,
Micah Leydorf (42:10):
well, you've got a word processor
Melissa Grace (42:12):
and I've got a word processor and I've got all
these wonderful people tellingme how to write a novel and
where did she get it?
I mean, you know, how did shefigure it out?
They were
Laurel Thomas (42:22):
very literary.
I mean, I think our, in ourculture, there's been this bias
that, you know, that we have a,a handle on all things worldly
and literary and, uh, no, I allyou have to do is read, you
know, Charles Dickens and theywere with literary friends.
(42:42):
It was their, it was theirworld.
Micah Leydorf (42:45):
So basically, I mean, I love you guys.
And I was even thinking as I wasdriving over here to record this
podcast with you all, you know,again, we've said before that we
originally met as a fictioncritique group.
I was thinking about how much,you know, You guys have been
part of, like, my personaljourney, and I feel like, oh, I
(43:05):
couldn't be where I was if Ididn't have these friends to
help me.
But that's what their wholeworld was.
Like I say, they lived in thislittle commune, basically, in
Massachusetts.
So their world was like afiction critique group.
When you think about like theBronte sisters, you know, you
talked about Heathcliff andWuthering Heights.
Oh my gosh, they were soprolific.
(43:25):
And they literally walked aroundtheir living room for exercise
every day.
Like no interaction with theoutside world, but they had each
other and they had all thebooks.
Right?
You know, we talked about ScrewTape Letters last week and the
inklings.
That's part of probably why youhad all of this coming out with
the Lord of the Rings and C.
(43:47):
S.
Lewis and you know, all of thesethings in that they were.
Together they were talking aboutthese things.
So there's a lot to be said forsurrounding yourself with others
who are similarly minded.
Laurel Thomas (43:58):
And I miss that.
Kat Lewis (43:59):
That's so good.
That's so good.
Well, you guys, thank you forbeing a part of our little
writing community and forcing usto be better so we can bring
these things to you guys.
Feel free to touch base with usnext month for our next episode.
Hang out with us on Instagramuntil then, and we will see you
guys in just a little bit.
Micah Leydorf (44:19):
Bye.
Laurel Thomas (44:20):
Bye.
Melissa Grace (44:21):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.