September 26, 2025 • 32 mins
NYT-bestselling author Abigail Hing Wen discusses writing the LOVEBOAT, TAIPEI trilogy, producing LOVE IN TAIPEI for Paramount+ (and Netflix), and directing her first short film THE VALE: ORIGINS (starring Lea Salonga), a prequel to her new middle-grade novel THE VALE. Lightning Round topics: favorite movies, superpowers, whether cereal is a soup, guilty pleasure dance songs, and fun trivia about the infamous door scene in the TITANIC movie!
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Episode Transcript
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Hollyn (00:04):
Welcome to Stories Without Borders, the podcast.
I'm your host, Hollyn.
Here we interview people whouse the power of stories and
service to promote connection,empathy and understanding around
the world.
You can learn more atStoriesWithoutBorders.
org or follow us on Instagramand YouTube
@Stories_WithoutBorders.
Thanks for listening, here'stoday's episode.
(00:27):
Today we are speaking with NewYork Times- bestselling author,
producer and tech leader,Abigail Hing Wen.
Abigail wrote the New YorkTimes and national bestselling
trilogy Loveboat Taipei,Loveboat Reunion and Loveboat
Forever.
She executive produced theParamount Plus original film
Love in Taipei, an adaptation ofLoveboat, Taipei that stars
Ashley Liao from the HungerGames franchise and Ross Butler
(00:48):
from Shazam.
Her fourth novel, Kisses, Codesand Conspiracies, is a national
bestseller and Amazon Editor'spick for Best YA Book of the
Month.
Her upcoming fifth novel is TheVale, and she is writing and
directing a short film titledThe Vale: Origins that is a
prequel to the book.
Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast, Abigail.
Abigail (01:06):
Thank you so much for having me, Hollyn.
It's such a pleasure to be here.
Hollyn (01:08):
Oh my gosh, I've been a fan of your work for such a long
time.
I've read all of your books.
You're such a powerful writer.
I'm just so happy to have youon this podcast.
Abigail (01:16):
Thank you for reading.
Hollyn (01:16):
Of course! I'd love to start off with some biographical
info to introduce you to ouraudience.
I've heard you speak about yourinspiring journey from growing
up as a young bibliophile inOhio and eventually becoming a
New York Times bestsellingauthor, and I'd love for you to
share an overview of thatjourney.
Abigail (01:31):
Oh yeah, thank you.
Thank you for doing all theresearch, too.
So I did grow up in Ohio.
I was one of the fewAsian-Americans in my school and
my community, and so I think Iwas always very conscious of
being different, but not knowingwhy.
I didn't understand why I wasdifferent.
I didn't understand why thelife that I knew in the home was
so different than the lifeoutside and so different from
all my peers around me, and so Idid find a lot of my friends in
(01:52):
books.
And I think through books I wasable to experience lots of
different worlds and cultures,and I found myself gravitating
towards fantasy stories inparticular-- I think, in
retrospect, because I could seemyself in those worlds.
Usually it's about the herogoes into another world and
explores a new culture.
Hollyn (02:05):
So it's like going into a portal through the book.
Abigail (02:08):
Very much so, and so I think that Loveboat, Taipei,
even though it's technicallycontemporary, I think of it as a
fantasy, too.
It's like a girl goes intoanother world, which is the
world of Taipei, and meets abunch of people, experiences
this new transformative culture,learns all the rules and how to
break them, and then comes homea different person.
Hollyn (02:24):
Yeah, 'cause Ever comes to Loveboat as this good girl--
straight A, very shy-- and thenshe comes back, and she's a
dancer, and she's found herselfat Loveboat.
And is that sort of yourexperience?
Abigail (02:38):
Yeah, so I did go on this real program.
So it's a real program that'sbeen around since the 1960s, and
parents of overseasAsian-Americans, they would send
their kids there to learnlanguage and culture-- also to
find a spouse, so that's how itgot the nickname, Loveboat, and
I did go on the program.
I was in my, I think I justfinished my freshman year at
Harvard, and so I went with acouple other Presidential
(02:59):
Scholars.
We were all given the trip forfree from the [Taiwanese]
government and I had no ideawhat to expect.
I thought it was literally justa language and cultural program
.
And then, lo and behold, itturns out to be this summer
free- for- all, where the kidsare sneaking out, clubbing and
drinking snake blood sake anddoing all kinds of things, lots
of hooking up.
Hollyn (03:14):
What?
! Oh, wow.
Abigail (03:15):
Yeah, it was-- so I think it was an eye-opening
experience for me, and also, youknow, going to Harvard, and
similar programs, and then goingon Loveboat, it was the first
time for me that I met so manyAsian-Americans who were really
proud of their culture and theiridentity, and they knew all
these things that I didn't know.
It was like being in Ohio again, except in reverse.
They knew about the food inTaipei and the history and the
(03:36):
music, and it was reallyrefreshing for me.
And I think that experience wasjust with me for so long as I
was writing-- I was on mywriting journey, writing all
these other novels, and then Ithink I finally came to the
point where I was ready, from acraft perspective, to tackle
such a big story.
And I also felt like it was aportrayal of Asian- Americans
that we weren't seeing inmainstream media and stories.
Hollyn (03:56):
Yeah.
Had you gone to Taipei orTaiwan before this cultural
exchange program?
Abigail (04:01):
I went when I was 12 with my family.
It was actually-- we weresupposed to go to China, but
then there was the TiananmenSquare incident, so then we
shifted to Taipei, and then Iended up having this fun time
there, but I didn't go againuntil Loveboat [the program].
But since then, I've been threemore times to research books
one, two and three [in theLoveboat, Taipei series] as well
as to film the movie.
Hollyn (04:20):
Right.
Well, let's dive into Loveboat.
So you said the inspiration ofthe book was your experience.
What were some of the keymoments at Loveboat that kind of
drove the book?
Abigail (04:32):
Well, I remember we were treated really amazingly
well, and I think when I lookback on it, I'm like, oh, I
don't know that we deserved thattreatment, especially because
we were just sneaking outclubbing.
But they really wanted to rollout the red carpet for us and
show us a good time aroundTaipei.
I think they really wanted us tobe able to connect with our
heritage and the culture, and sowe would take these bus rides
(04:54):
throughout the city on ourexcursions, we'd go to the
museums.
A lot of these appear in thestory.
We did this tour around theisland, which was amazing
because the island itself isbeautiful.
But I do remember one time westopped the bus, and someone got
off to visit his family andcame back with, like, all this
food.
And so I was really struck bythat because I didn't have
(05:15):
family there, but I felt like,wow, he had this inside view of
the culture that I was, I think,in some ways envious of.
And so in some ways, writingLoveboat, Taipei and having that
opportunity for my charactersto go visit their families was
me just peeking into that worldand looking under the hood.
Hollyn (05:30):
Because you don't have family in Taipei, or do you?
Abigail (05:33):
I have sometimes, on and off.
Yeah, it's like they just movearound.
So I have visited a cousinthere, but she's no longer there
.
Hollyn (05:41):
Can you explain how the Loveboat trilogy breaks down
stereotypes, because I know thatthe lack of diversity of AAPI
characters in books is a massiveproblem that you have addressed
multiple times.
So I'd love to know how youused Loveboat to break down the
stereotype.
Abigail (05:56):
So when I was growing up, there were just very few
stories with Asian-Americans ingeneral, and a lot of the
portrayal in media was thestereotypical father taking
photos, which I think isprobably tourists, like they
just assume, oh, if you're Asian, you're a tourist.
And then there were thesidekick, nerdy characters, and
(06:16):
then there was the dragon woman,or kind of like the Suzy Wong
types, and that's really all wehad.
And they were often pretty flatcharacters, they didn't have
depth to them, and they wereexpendable.
And so I think with theLoveboat, Taipei books, the
first goal really was tohumanize the Asian-American
characters, and that's partlywhy we have this Loveboat series
(06:38):
, where they really are justhuman.
They are kids, they makefoolish decisions as well as
smart ones, they fall in love,they break up, they get back on
their feet after hard times,they make mistakes.
And I think that humanizationis showing that well-roundedness
of the characters, allowingthem to really be a 360 was
(06:59):
important to me.
Hollyn (07:00):
Yeah, because the three main characters, Ever, Sophie
and Pearl, they're so complexand fleshed- out, I could almost
imagine them somewhere aroundthe world just, you know,
drinking boba or designing theirnext clothing item.
Who or what was yourinspiration for each of these
characters?
Abigail (07:18):
So I do say that Ever's journey is mine, even though--
and I did dance, I did a lot ofballet growing up for 12 years,
I did a lot of music-- but Inever thought it could be
something I could pursue.
I didn't know I could pursuethe arts.
And so her choice of, shouldshe go to med school or should
she pursue being a dancer, insome ways is my choice between
doing more of the traditionalcorporate path or becoming a
(07:39):
writer.
But I say that she got tochoose earlier because she
figured it out sooner.
But yeah, I think thatnavigating what does it mean to
honor your parents while stillpursuing your passions and being
yourself was definitely a bigpart of my journey.
And there was a moment when Ifelt like I was going to let my
parents down in terms of whatthey wanted from me.
They actually wanted me to gointo public service and work in
(08:00):
the government.
I was working in Washington DCon Capitol Hill and just felt
like, wow, I can't--this is notthe world for me.
There were these young peoplewith too much power and no sense
of the world, no livedexperience, and it just felt
very empty.
And so there was a moment Icalled my dad and I was like,
(08:20):
"I'm going to let everyone athome down, they're like, 'Oh,
you went to Harvard, you'regoing to do all these great
things for our community'," andI was just like, "I can't do all
that".
And it was a really hard momentfor me, and I was, I remember
crying, and my dad was like,"You know, it's okay.
" And that was actually reallyimportant for me to hear that
from him.
It's okay.
(08:41):
And I think sometimes as youngpeople, we can put a lot of
pressures on ourselves thataren't actually there.
Hollyn (08:41):
Yeah.
Abigail (08:41):
And that's part of the journey of Ever and her parents,
they love each other so much,but they don't have the language
or the understanding to fullyconnect until later.
Hollyn (08:51):
That's such an inspiring and powerful story.
The fact that you see so muchof yourself in Ever, and you
were able to communicate thatthrough the paper so well,
that's so inspiring.
I also wanted to congratulateyou on your movie, Love in
Taipei.
I hate to change the subject,but can you explain what it was
like to have it turn into amovie and also the process of
being the executive producer?
Abigail (09:12):
Yeah, it was really incredible to see the words on
the page turn into thesebeautiful images on the screen.
And you know, I think awriter's life can be very
solitary, it's just you and thepage and then your editor and
agent.
It's a small team.
You have more control over thestory, but I enjoy having people
(09:33):
around--and so that's the fun,I think, of doing a movie is
there's 300 people by the end.
And what I often say-- Imentioned when we were chatting
in the green room, is the movieis quite different than the
film-- or than the books, and Ithink part of it is you're
ceding creative control to 300people, and in some ways, no one
has control over the finalproduct because everyone brings
(09:54):
their own sensibilities to it.
I am grateful that we were ableto film it at the height of the
pandemic in Taipei, and sothere were just a small number
of us that came over from NorthAmerica, and we were on the
ground doing our thing together,and that was really magical to
be on set together.
Hollyn (10:09):
That's awesome.
Your fourth novel, Kisses,Codes and Conspiracies, it's
based on your short story, TheIdiom Algorithm.
It's quite different from theLoveboat series.
It's set in Silicon Valley,which is basically the global
headquarters of the techindustry, and you worked in that
field for a really long time.
Did that in any way helpdevelop the story?
Abigail (10:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, the best advice is towrite what you know, and
initially that actually kept mefrom writing, because I didn't
realize that you wrote what youknew.
I thought you-- I had thoughtof books as things that I didn't
know about, but when you writeyour own one, it's the things
that you're an expert in, whichis often things in your own life
.
So the Loveboat, Taipei bookswere about an experience I'd had
20 years prior, and then I'vebeen in Silicon Valley now for
(10:49):
about, I guess, 16 years or so,and so it was kind of the right
time for me to also start toreflect on this place that is so
unique.
I think there's so muchhappening with the tech
revolution that's reallyimpacted the whole world.
Artificial intelligence is inall our lives, and it's here to
(11:10):
stay, and so I felt like thingslike that, they're so unique to
the Valley.
And I did want to capturethat--but also capture, again,
these Asian-Americans thathappen to live in Silicon Valley
and I wasn't seeing reflectedin the shows that did come out.
So for this one, there'snothing particularly cultural
(11:31):
about it.
It's Tan Lee and Winter Woo,whose mother and her rent out
the back rooms of his home inPalo Alto, and then his
ex-girlfriend from Shanghai.
They end up on the run from abunch of international thugs
that are chasing them for thesecryptocurrencies that have come
into their possession throughRebecca.
And you know, definitelycryptocurrency is something I
had looked at 10 years ago whenpeople were still excited about
Bitcoin mining and all that.
(11:53):
And it worked for the storybecause it was Rebecca's
father's stash, his moneystash-- which is why
cryptocurrencies are illegal inparts of the world, it's a way
to hide from governments.
I just thought it was kind oflike the story of the
inheritance money, or the moneythat's hidden under the mattress
, but in a totally differentform, a modernized form.
Hollyn (12:15):
It's so cool, and I love how this book is so
action-packed.
When I was reading it I waslike, oh, this could totally be
a Marvel movie.
What was the experience you hadwriting in this genre, because
it's not realistic fiction orcontemporary or fantasy?
Abigail (12:28):
Yeah, so my team describes it as a young adult
thriller or a thrillmantic,because it's a thriller plus
rom-com, romantic comedy.
You know, I actually havealways written stories like this
, I just didn't publish them.
So as a kid I told stories tomy brother and sister of
adventures of us in the worldwithout adults, and there was
usually a thriller element ordystopian or fantasy.
(12:52):
And I wrote four novels on theway to Loveboat, Taipei that I
had to bury, and my second oneactually was a young adult
thriller set in Asia, and thatone, for various reasons, I
didn't end up publishing.
So I think in some ways this isjust more of me.
I just happen to have a lot ofdifferent types of stories in me
.
Hollyn (13:10):
Are you an older sibling ?
Abigail (13:12):
I am, yeah.
Hollyn (13:12):
Me too, because I had to tell stories to my little
brother.
Abigail (13:15):
There you go, yeah!
Hollyn (13:17):
So I wanted to talk about Tan a little bit, the male
protagonist and the maincharacter.
Your previous stories, they allhave female main characters,
and so was that any differentthan-- I mean, I'm sure it's
different, but how was thatdifferent than writing through,
like, Ever?
Abigail (13:31):
For sure, for sure, it was definitely a different
challenge.
Book two, as you know, LoveboatReunion, is dual point of view,
with Xavier and Sophie, and sothat was hard too, especially
because Xavier is so differentfrom me.
Where Xavier and I are similaris in his neurodiversity, and so
then that was a point ofconnection, and also he's a
visual thinker and a filmmaker.
But Tan, yeah, Tan was hard,but this one for some reason,
(13:53):
just came out that way.
I have--with the secondLoveboat, my editor and my team
basically advised they did wanta female protagonist, because
that was consistent with whatI'd done with book one.
But with this one my editorjust kind of let me do it.
And the funny thing is, when Ithink about my forthcoming books
, they all have maleprotagonists, too.
I think I just write what comes, what feels right for that
(14:18):
particular book.
And Tan, you know, my point ofconnection to him is something I
didn't realize until later, buthe has imposter
syndrome--growing up in SiliconValley, surrounded by all these
amazing kids, and then havingparents who are industry leaders
in cryptography.
He doesn't realize how good heis and how well he's been
trained, but he also has naturalgiftings.
(14:38):
And he kind of has to go onthis entire international heist
journey to realize how good heis and to get off his butt and
apply for the internship that hewas too scared to apply for.
Hollyn (14:54):
And, I mean, when Sana got hurt, and there's multiple
instances where Sana is put indanger--
Abigail (14:56):
--his younger sister, yeah.
Hollyn (14:58):
--and he just beats himself up for it and I'm like,
"No, Tan, stop it!".
I can totally see the impostersyndrome because he thought he
was such a horrible brother toSana, and I guess in a way, if
you think about it, he could be,but he's just-- he feels like a
friendly giant to me.
Abigail (15:16):
Yeah, he's got his own fumbles and yeah, I think that
was a big key learning for him,too, is no matter how much he
screwed up, his sister justloves him and she just-- that's
all she wants, is just for himto be there with her.
Hollyn (15:30):
She might get a little mad if she doesn't go to Barnes
and Noble.
Abigail (15:33):
Yeah, and like the delay in her cookies.
Hollyn (15:34):
Yeah, you don't want to get in the way of little
siblings and their sugar.
Abigail (15:38):
Absolutely.
But I think he also learns whathe's capable of doing, and how
much he'll do to protect theones that he loves, and that's a
really important learning forhim, too.
Hollyn (15:47):
Your fifth novel, The Vale, is coming out soon, which
is super exciting,congratulations!
Abigail (15:52):
Thank you.
Hollyn (15:53):
And you're also directing a short film related
to the book, which is also superexciting, yay! Can you tell us
briefly a little bit about thebook?
Abigail (16:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
At the time we're doing thispodcast, and I know it's going
to be released a little later, Iam actually right about to film
.
We're going to go to set in twodays, so super excited.
But we have an amazing cast.
Lea Salonga, who was mychildhood hero growing up--she
was the voice of Mulan, Jasmineand played Miss Saigon on
Broadway, as well as Eponine inLes Miserables, so really just
(16:23):
my childhood hero-- she agreedto play our lead, Addie, who's
the mom.
The story is about the Leefamily.
They're an inventor familyliving in Silicon Valley that
created this virtual realityworld powered by artificial
intelligence, or it's anAI-generated virtual reality
world.
And in the novel, it's a middlegrade novel, the main character
(16:46):
Bran is 13 years old, and he haslived too long in this virtual
reality world that hisneurodiverse parents have
created.
He just wants this world tobecome real, and the real world
for him is hard because hisparents have fallen on hard
times.
All of their inventions havefailed, even though he believes
that they're brilliant,especially because he's got this
Vale, but he really just wisheshis elves in this world would
(17:09):
come to life.
And there are opportunities forhim to submit this Vale into
competition, and that's kind ofthe backbone of the story.
But as he's entering in thesecompetitions, which are the hope
for his family as well as forthe Vale, things start to break
down in that world.
And so that's kind of hischallenge, can he figure out
what's going on before both hisworlds are destroyed?
(17:31):
So it's such a strange andbizarre book.
It was actually my fourth novelon the way to Loveboat, Taipei.
I wrote it as my creativethesis for Vermont College of
Fine Arts, and it never saw thelight of day, because my rep at
the time said that they justdidn't know what it was.
It was just this weird bookthat I wrote in 2015 about
artificial intelligencegeneration, and nobody
(17:52):
understood what it was.
And so now the world hasfinally caught up, and I could
finally publish it.
Because it's such a weird book,it goes back and forth between
the real world and the virtualreality world, the two
storylines that eventuallyconverge.
I really wanted to show whatthat could look like on the
screen, because I felt like itwas probably hard to grok.
And so my short film has likethree different purposes: One
(18:13):
is that it's a proof of concept,because it does cut between the
real world and an animatedworld.
And that's been so much fun towork with the team on, on our
calls, we'll have the animatorand the post-production producer
and the art director, and sojust like everyone working
together to bring about acohesive piece.
(18:34):
So it's a proof of concept forwhat a feature-length film could
look like, it's my directorialdebut, which has been so much
fun.
Hollyn (18:42):
Congratulations!
Abigail (18:43):
Thank you.
Yeah, we have a reallywonderful cast and crew.
And it supports the book launch.
Books in general are just sohard to get word out on, and so
I'm thrilled to have this assetcoming in to really help get the
word out and also further ourgoals of diverse stories.
Again, this is a story wherethe family happens to be diverse
(19:05):
, but the story itself is auniversal one.
Hollyn (19:07):
What's your favorite and least favorite part of the
writing process?
Abigail (19:17):
I love all of it in different ways.
There is something reallysatisfying about finishing, but
you get there so rarely.
I've only been there five timesnow.
But the idea generation issomething that just happens all
day long for me.
Like wherever I go, I get ideas, and so then I'll just slot
them into a note file on myphone, and then when I have a
moment to sit down and kind ofgo through all those ideas, then
I figure out what to do withthem.
So that's fun to see the chaosslowly take shape and form into
(19:41):
something.
But I think I do love it mostwhen I have a first draft that I
can actually finally start tomassage, because when it's
amorphous and I'm not sure, andI know the emotional heart of it
but I don't know what'shappening, then it's this
unwieldy thing.
But that is also part of thefun.
Hollyn (19:56):
Yeah, it is part of the fun, but I do have to say
sometimes when you get to thatpart, it's like I want to burn
this thing to the ground andnever look back.
Abigail (20:04):
Totally, because you're also a writer.
Hollyn (20:06):
Yeah.
Abigail (20:07):
How is your process, what's your favorite part?
Hollyn (20:08):
Well, I mean, I tried writing a novel, and that did
not work at all.
Abigail (20:13):
It takes a long time.
Hollyn (20:13):
It takes a long time.
I've mostly been sticking withshorter formatting, like poems.
I've written a lot of poems andI actually do have a short-- I
don't know how to describe it,it's like a short horror-
thriller, psychological shortstory that's about body image,
which is very much still beingrevised.
What was the most difficultcharacter for you to write and
why?
Abigail (20:33):
Oh, I think it might actually be Pearl--
Hollyn (20:35):
Really?
Abigail (20:35):
--the star of book three, because she's a younger
sibling and, as we just talkedabout, we're both olders, and so
I had these perspectives on theyounger sibling, like the older
one paves the way with theparents.
So it was fun, it was a funchallenge to put myself in her
(20:56):
shoes, and I helped myself outof it by having her be quite a
bit younger than Ever.
And then I found that Iactually really enjoyed how she
could interact with the Wongfamily in a different way than
her big sister.
Ever had a very fraughtrelationship with her parents,
as you know, and even, I think,at the time of book three, which
takes place six years later,it's never a perfect
relationship.
But Pearl, as it turned out,had a good relationship with her
mother because of all this timethey spent together, driving
around to all her music events,and then having her older sister
(21:19):
pave the way helped for sure.
So I enjoyed the fact that Pearl was close to their mother so
that in some ways, you couldhumanize the mom too, and show
what her hopes were.
I actually love those littlemoments when Pearl would be
like, you should take a phototoo, you should get a glamor
shot too, even though her mom'slike no, no, no, I'm too old.
And just the ways that Pearlcould care for her mother, and
(21:45):
Pearl having her mother andsister come out to join her on
Loveboat, I just felt like forme, it was an opportunity to
bring the whole family fullcircle.
And I think it's because I hadto do all that work of digging
into who Pearl was and why shewas different than Ever that we
got to bring all these thingsabout.
Hollyn (21:56):
And if you really think about it, it's almost like you
get two different perspectivesof what Ever and Pearl's mom is
like, because in Ever's book youget mean tiger mom, but then in
Pearl's book you get this sortof nurturing and kind,
thoughtful person.
And so it was really nice tohave two different sides,
because then that makes the momreally fleshed out as well.
Abigail (22:16):
Yeah, I'm glad I had that opportunity, because I
think the dad had his ownjourney in book one, so he came
around.
But yeah, I'm really glad I hadthat time.
Hollyn (22:26):
Who are some of your role models and influences as a
writer?
Abigail (22:29):
Ooh, good question.
So I always talk about mycritique partners who were there
at the beginning, and we met invarious ways, like I met Eileen
Wong, her pen name is IWGregorio.
We met at an SCBWI conference,and she was a resident at
Stanford Medical School tryingto write YA novels, and I was a
young attorney trying to writeYA novels, and so it was a good
match.
And we started trading worksand other people joined us, like
(22:51):
Sonia Mukherjee, who's alsopublished a young adult book,
Gemini.
And I met Sabaa Tahir, who'sactually the first
Pakistani-American to win theNational Book Award for Young
People's Literature, and StaceyLee, who writes historical
Asian-American stories, KellyLoy Gilbert, similarly
historical and contemporaryAsian-American stories.
And I just learned so much fromthem.
(23:13):
And in my low points in mywriting career, like when
Loveboat was rejected and I justdidn't know what else to do,
they were the ones whoencouraged me, came around me
and kept me going and had suchinvaluable advice.
I really admire all their works.
Hollyn (23:26):
That's awesome.
And what do you hope youraudience takes away from your
own work?
Abigail (23:32):
Well, I think we talked a little about the humanizing
of the characters, but reallythe big themes that matter to me
, I think, are the familydynamics, the complexity of
those family dynamics.
Identity was a theme inLoveboat.
Believing in yourself and beingempowered, is a theme, I think
, in Kisses, Codes andConspiracies.
I think of myself as a bridgebuilder, and I'm trying to build
(23:57):
bridges across many differentcommunities.
I think the fact that I grew upin Ohio as an Asian- American,
I thought a lot about how tobridge that gap growing up, and
so that's reflected in thesebooks.
But I also think about how do Ibridge the technology world
with the people who are afraidof technology, and that's
something I did as part of mycareer.
Implicit bias is something thatI really faced as a woman in
tech, and so I think about howdo I bridge that world to people
(24:19):
who've never experienced it,like what does it mean when your
ideas are just not considered?
I think Taylor Swift is reallythe master of it with her song
The Man-- it just completely,completely captured it-- you
know, explaining thoseexperiences.
And then with gender andsexuality, there's still such a
big gap.
I think for me, having grown upin Ohio, which is a more
conservative community, and nowliving here in Silicon Valley, I
(24:42):
do have the vocabulary and thelanguage to see where people are
really missing each other on alot of these issues.
And so my hope is to be able tospeak across these divides and
to bring people together.
Hollyn (24:52):
That's awesome, and I certainly took a lot of that, if
not all of that, away from allof your work.
So why don't we do some funlightning round questions?
So I'll ask a quick question,you give a quick answer.
Abigail (25:03):
Sounds fun, yeah! Can you give a quick answer too?
Hollyn (25:08):
Sure, alright-- ready, set, go! Dogs or cats?
Abigail (25:11):
Dogs.
Hollyn (25:12):
Cats.
Abigail (25:13):
Ah, you're a cat person .
I don't know if we can do thisinterview anymore.
Hollyn (25:15):
Oh wait, wow, I mean--
Abigail (25:17):
I'm totally kidding!
Hollyn (25:18):
I'm allergic to cats, like, I die when I'm around cats
, but they are the most adorablethings ever.
Abigail (25:22):
Yeah, no, no, no.
Actually, I have dear friendswho are cat people, and we
actually have a half-feral catin our yard, so we're good.
Hollyn (25:30):
What about your favorite movie?
Abigail (25:31):
Favorite movie?
That's a hard one, but I dolove Back to the Future, which I
just recently watched again,and I think it's influenced some
of my future work that'shopefully coming.
Hollyn (25:39):
Oh my gosh.
I have to say my favorite movieis probably Ant-Man.
Abigail (25:45):
That was a good one.
I watched that with my family.
Hollyn (25:48):
And this is really silly, but Home Alone.
Abigail (25:51):
I love that too, yeah.
Hollyn (25:52):
I know, it's hilarious when the spider's on his face.
Abigail (25:55):
It's super heartwarming, yeah.
Hollyn (25:57):
Your favorite ice cream flavor?
Abigail (25:59):
Ooh, that's a hard one.
Because I love so manyvarieties, but I've had like
lavender- olive oil or balsamicvinegar, and those combinations
are just super fun.
Hollyn (26:09):
Salt and Straw?
Abigail (26:09):
Possibly, but I feel like-- actually I think it was
Scoops, here in the LA area.
My college roommate Judybrought me.
Hollyn (26:15):
I have to say my favorite ice cream flavor is
Thai tea ice cream with boba.
Abigail (26:20):
Oh right, I've seen that one.
Hollyn (26:21):
It's so good, so I have to say that's my favorite ice
cream.
Is cereal a soup?
Abigail (26:28):
I think that is such an interesting question.
I've never thought of it thatway before, but it could be.
Hollyn (26:33):
I don't think it's a soup, because the milk is
optional.
Soup, the liquid is mandatory.
Abigail (26:41):
True, but I like the concept of stretching what we
understand the word to mean.
So thank you for the question.
Hollyn (26:46):
Of course.
Let's go in the same vein (26:46):
is a hot dog a sandwich?
Abigail (26:50):
Ooh, I think I would say no.
Hollyn (26:53):
Yeah, me too.
Could Jack have fit on that doorin Titanic?
Abigail (26:58):
Yes, I know, right?
Why did he have to die?
Hollyn (27:00):
I know, it's like-- Jack !
Abigail (27:03):
I do have to say something about that door though
, apparently--because mycritique partner I mentioned,
Stacey Lee, wrote Luck of theTitanic, which is about the
eight Chinese who were on theTitanic--and that door scene was
actually the Chinese people.
That was taken for the movie,for the last scene.
Hollyn (27:19):
Oh wow, that's awesome!
Abigail (27:20):
Yeah, fun fact.
Hollyn (27:22):
Noted.
What's your favorite pizzatopping?
Abigail (27:27):
Mushrooms.
Hollyn (27:27):
Mushrooms?
Oh yeah, I love mushrooms.
Abigail (27:29):
Besides the cheese and sauce, of course.
Hollyn (27:30):
Yes, obviously, I mean, what is pizza without cheese and
sauce?
I feel like if I say pineapple,I'm going to get cancelled.
Abigail (27:39):
No, I love pineapple, too, on pizzas--Hawaiian.
Hollyn (27:41):
What's your guilty pleasure dance song?
Abigail (27:43):
Ooh, oh, I have one, actually-- it's The Greatest
Showman.
Hollyn (27:47):
Oh, that's a good one.
Abigail (27:48):
Yeah, anything from The Greatest Showman.
Hollyn (27:49):
I have to say my guilty pleasure dance song, it's called
Hot To Go by Chappell Roan.
Abigail (27:54):
Ooh.
I haven't heard it yet.
Hollyn (27:55):
It's like H-O-T-T-O-G-O, there's a whole dance.
Abigail (27:57):
Oh, that's like a new YMCA.
Hollyn (27:59):
Yeah, I guess.
But other than Hot To Go, I dohave to say Bohemian Rhapsody.
Abigail (28:04):
Ooh, love that one.
Hollyn (28:06):
Which superpower would you choose, flight or
invisibility?
Abigail (28:17):
Oh, I've had this before, and I don't actually
remember what my prior answerswere.
I think invisibility-- Iprobably said flying in the past
, but there's so much you can doif you're invisible.
Hollyn (28:20):
I know, because you can eavesdrop.
Abigail (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Hollyn (28:21):
But then again, flying is just so cool.
I had a dream where I felt whatit was to fly.
It was like I was flying in thedream.
It was so strange, but it wasalso like, I want to experience
that again.
Abigail (28:31):
Yeah, it would be really fun.
I actually often dream offlying, but I can never fly very
high.
And then, like, someone'salways chasing me, so they just
grab my legs.
They just pull me out of theair.
Hollyn (28:42):
Me, too! I've only had this dream, like, twice, but
someone's always chasing me.
Which author, living or dead,would you want to have boba with
?
Abigail (28:48):
Oh gosh, I would probably say my critique
partners again, yeah, and I'mfortunate that I do get to see
them when they come through townor if we're doing book events
together.
Hollyn (28:55):
Last question for the lightning round
give one piece of advice to youryounger self, what would it be?
Abigail (29:01):
"You'll get there.
" So I mentioned growing up inOhio, it was lonely and it was--
I was very different than mypeers.
I did have some friends, whichI'm grateful for.
There were some really lowmoments there, and I think I
would go back to that child andbe like, you know, it's going to
actually be okay.
Hollyn (29:18):
That's so sweet.
Okay, so before we wrap up, Iwanted to ask you if there's any
particular cause ororganization near and dear to
your heart.
As you know, Stories WithoutBorders is very big on stories
and service and using that topositively impact the world, so
Stories Without Borders wouldlove to amplify anything that
you care about.
Abigail (29:36):
Thank you.
Yeah, so Little Lights UrbanMinistry is a ministry in
Washington DC, in the city, thatwas started by a
Korean-American couple, Steveand Mary Park.
So my husband and I actuallymet each other volunteering
there, and they work with theyouth in the neighborhood.
I just saw them a couple monthsago, and they actually have
grown up with these kids foryears.
(29:57):
And for one of them hadgraduated from high school but
was just kind of hanging out andwasn't doing anything, so they
actually helped him apply tocollege, and he got into college
.
So I just love the labor oflove that they're doing, walking
alongside these kids for yearsand years, and they've really
expanded to where they're takingon properties around DC and
(30:21):
converting them and making themhealthy, safe places for
communities to gather.
So yeah, Little Lights UrbanMinistry.
Hollyn (30:26):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for coming onto this podcast.
It means so much to me.
It's such an honor to have you.
Just before you go, can youtell our listeners, if there's
anything they can do to supportyour work or anything that you
love?
Abigail (30:40):
Yeah, thank you.
So for any book launch, the keyis actually the pre-orders,
which actually are quite hard todo.
You have to call the bookstoreand put the order in, and it's
actually best to pre-order atour local independent bookstores
and Barnes and Noble to supportthem.
Hollyn (30:55):
Don't pre-order off of Amazon, guys.
Abigail (30:57):
Yeah, Amazon is easy, but yes, pre-order at the local
store.
So for The Vale I think that'sthe request, to support that one
.
And then for the other books,helping to spread the word, and
one of the ways you can do thatis word of mouth, but also
rating on Amazon and Goodreadsgoes a long way, but for some
(31:21):
reason my readership doesn'ttend to rate there.
So I get a lot of DMs, and I'malways like, " Can you please
rate?
" So I think rating, if you getover a certain number then the
algorithms help to push the bookeven more widely.
So that's super helpful.
Hollyn (31:24):
We will be sure to rate.
Abigail (31:25):
Thank you.
Hollyn (31:25):
Everybody, do what Abigail said, because she's an
amazing author that deserves tohave her work out there.
Thank you again so much forcoming, it's been such a
pleasure to have you.
Abigail (31:33):
Oh, thank you so much for having me and again, thank
you for the wonderful,thoughtful questions.
Hollyn (31:38):
Thanks for listening to Stories Without Borders, the
podcast.
Please rate and review the showon your favorite podcast
platform.
You can learn more online atStoriesWithoutBorders.
org, or follow us on Instagram@Stories_WithoutBorders.
And if you like watching yourpodcasts, subscribe to our
YouTube channel @Stories_Without Borders.
(31:59):
Stories Without Borders thepodcast is written, hosted and
produced by me, Hollyn Alpert.
I also wrote and performed thetheme music.
Danuta Amato is our soundengineer, audio editor and
videographer.
Kennedy Hibbert is our videoeditor.
Thanks to Liberty Yanaga andLangston Williams for production
support.
See you all next time!
Welcome to Stories Without Borders, the podcast.
I'm your host, Hollyn.
Here we interview people whouse the power of stories and
service to promote connection,empathy and understanding around
the world.
You can learn more atStoriesWithoutBorders.
org or follow us on Instagramand YouTube
@Stories_WithoutBorders.
Thanks for listening, here'stoday's episode.
(00:27):
Today we are speaking with NewYork Times- bestselling author,
producer and tech leader,Abigail Hing Wen.
Abigail wrote the New YorkTimes and national bestselling
trilogy Loveboat Taipei,Loveboat Reunion and Loveboat
Forever.
She executive produced theParamount Plus original film
Love in Taipei, an adaptation ofLoveboat, Taipei that stars
Ashley Liao from the HungerGames franchise and Ross Butler
(00:48):
from Shazam.
Her fourth novel, Kisses, Codesand Conspiracies, is a national
bestseller and Amazon Editor'spick for Best YA Book of the
Month.
Her upcoming fifth novel is TheVale, and she is writing and
directing a short film titledThe Vale: Origins that is a
prequel to the book.
Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast, Abigail.
Abigail (01:06):
Thank you so much for having me, Hollyn.
It's such a pleasure to be here.
Hollyn (01:08):
Oh my gosh, I've been a fan of your work for such a long
time.
I've read all of your books.
You're such a powerful writer.
I'm just so happy to have youon this podcast.
Abigail (01:16):
Thank you for reading.
Hollyn (01:16):
Of course! I'd love to start off with some biographical
info to introduce you to ouraudience.
I've heard you speak about yourinspiring journey from growing
up as a young bibliophile inOhio and eventually becoming a
New York Times bestsellingauthor, and I'd love for you to
share an overview of thatjourney.
Abigail (01:31):
Oh yeah, thank you.
Thank you for doing all theresearch, too.
So I did grow up in Ohio.
I was one of the fewAsian-Americans in my school and
my community, and so I think Iwas always very conscious of
being different, but not knowingwhy.
I didn't understand why I wasdifferent.
I didn't understand why thelife that I knew in the home was
so different than the lifeoutside and so different from
all my peers around me, and so Idid find a lot of my friends in
(01:52):
books.
And I think through books I wasable to experience lots of
different worlds and cultures,and I found myself gravitating
towards fantasy stories inparticular-- I think, in
retrospect, because I could seemyself in those worlds.
Usually it's about the herogoes into another world and
explores a new culture.
Hollyn (02:05):
So it's like going into a portal through the book.
Abigail (02:08):
Very much so, and so I think that Loveboat, Taipei,
even though it's technicallycontemporary, I think of it as a
fantasy, too.
It's like a girl goes intoanother world, which is the
world of Taipei, and meets abunch of people, experiences
this new transformative culture,learns all the rules and how to
break them, and then comes homea different person.
Hollyn (02:24):
Yeah, 'cause Ever comes to Loveboat as this good girl--
straight A, very shy-- and thenshe comes back, and she's a
dancer, and she's found herselfat Loveboat.
And is that sort of yourexperience?
Abigail (02:38):
Yeah, so I did go on this real program.
So it's a real program that'sbeen around since the 1960s, and
parents of overseasAsian-Americans, they would send
their kids there to learnlanguage and culture-- also to
find a spouse, so that's how itgot the nickname, Loveboat, and
I did go on the program.
I was in my, I think I justfinished my freshman year at
Harvard, and so I went with acouple other Presidential
(02:59):
Scholars.
We were all given the trip forfree from the [Taiwanese]
government and I had no ideawhat to expect.
I thought it was literally justa language and cultural program
.
And then, lo and behold, itturns out to be this summer
free- for- all, where the kidsare sneaking out, clubbing and
drinking snake blood sake anddoing all kinds of things, lots
of hooking up.
Hollyn (03:14):
What?
! Oh, wow.
Abigail (03:15):
Yeah, it was-- so I think it was an eye-opening
experience for me, and also, youknow, going to Harvard, and
similar programs, and then goingon Loveboat, it was the first
time for me that I met so manyAsian-Americans who were really
proud of their culture and theiridentity, and they knew all
these things that I didn't know.
It was like being in Ohio again, except in reverse.
They knew about the food inTaipei and the history and the
(03:36):
music, and it was reallyrefreshing for me.
And I think that experience wasjust with me for so long as I
was writing-- I was on mywriting journey, writing all
these other novels, and then Ithink I finally came to the
point where I was ready, from acraft perspective, to tackle
such a big story.
And I also felt like it was aportrayal of Asian- Americans
that we weren't seeing inmainstream media and stories.
Hollyn (03:56):
Yeah.
Had you gone to Taipei orTaiwan before this cultural
exchange program?
Abigail (04:01):
I went when I was 12 with my family.
It was actually-- we weresupposed to go to China, but
then there was the TiananmenSquare incident, so then we
shifted to Taipei, and then Iended up having this fun time
there, but I didn't go againuntil Loveboat [the program].
But since then, I've been threemore times to research books
one, two and three [in theLoveboat, Taipei series] as well
as to film the movie.
Hollyn (04:20):
Right.
Well, let's dive into Loveboat.
So you said the inspiration ofthe book was your experience.
What were some of the keymoments at Loveboat that kind of
drove the book?
Abigail (04:32):
Well, I remember we were treated really amazingly
well, and I think when I lookback on it, I'm like, oh, I
don't know that we deserved thattreatment, especially because
we were just sneaking outclubbing.
But they really wanted to rollout the red carpet for us and
show us a good time aroundTaipei.
I think they really wanted us tobe able to connect with our
heritage and the culture, and sowe would take these bus rides
(04:54):
throughout the city on ourexcursions, we'd go to the
museums.
A lot of these appear in thestory.
We did this tour around theisland, which was amazing
because the island itself isbeautiful.
But I do remember one time westopped the bus, and someone got
off to visit his family andcame back with, like, all this
food.
And so I was really struck bythat because I didn't have
(05:15):
family there, but I felt like,wow, he had this inside view of
the culture that I was, I think,in some ways envious of.
And so in some ways, writingLoveboat, Taipei and having that
opportunity for my charactersto go visit their families was
me just peeking into that worldand looking under the hood.
Hollyn (05:30):
Because you don't have family in Taipei, or do you?
Abigail (05:33):
I have sometimes, on and off.
Yeah, it's like they just movearound.
So I have visited a cousinthere, but she's no longer there
.
Hollyn (05:41):
Can you explain how the Loveboat trilogy breaks down
stereotypes, because I know thatthe lack of diversity of AAPI
characters in books is a massiveproblem that you have addressed
multiple times.
So I'd love to know how youused Loveboat to break down the
stereotype.
Abigail (05:56):
So when I was growing up, there were just very few
stories with Asian-Americans ingeneral, and a lot of the
portrayal in media was thestereotypical father taking
photos, which I think isprobably tourists, like they
just assume, oh, if you're Asian, you're a tourist.
And then there were thesidekick, nerdy characters, and
(06:16):
then there was the dragon woman,or kind of like the Suzy Wong
types, and that's really all wehad.
And they were often pretty flatcharacters, they didn't have
depth to them, and they wereexpendable.
And so I think with theLoveboat, Taipei books, the
first goal really was tohumanize the Asian-American
characters, and that's partlywhy we have this Loveboat series
(06:38):
, where they really are justhuman.
They are kids, they makefoolish decisions as well as
smart ones, they fall in love,they break up, they get back on
their feet after hard times,they make mistakes.
And I think that humanizationis showing that well-roundedness
of the characters, allowingthem to really be a 360 was
(06:59):
important to me.
Hollyn (07:00):
Yeah, because the three main characters, Ever, Sophie
and Pearl, they're so complexand fleshed- out, I could almost
imagine them somewhere aroundthe world just, you know,
drinking boba or designing theirnext clothing item.
Who or what was yourinspiration for each of these
characters?
Abigail (07:18):
So I do say that Ever's journey is mine, even though--
and I did dance, I did a lot ofballet growing up for 12 years,
I did a lot of music-- but Inever thought it could be
something I could pursue.
I didn't know I could pursuethe arts.
And so her choice of, shouldshe go to med school or should
she pursue being a dancer, insome ways is my choice between
doing more of the traditionalcorporate path or becoming a
(07:39):
writer.
But I say that she got tochoose earlier because she
figured it out sooner.
But yeah, I think thatnavigating what does it mean to
honor your parents while stillpursuing your passions and being
yourself was definitely a bigpart of my journey.
And there was a moment when Ifelt like I was going to let my
parents down in terms of whatthey wanted from me.
They actually wanted me to gointo public service and work in
(08:00):
the government.
I was working in Washington DCon Capitol Hill and just felt
like, wow, I can't--this is notthe world for me.
There were these young peoplewith too much power and no sense
of the world, no livedexperience, and it just felt
very empty.
And so there was a moment Icalled my dad and I was like,
(08:20):
"I'm going to let everyone athome down, they're like, 'Oh,
you went to Harvard, you'regoing to do all these great
things for our community'," andI was just like, "I can't do all
that".
And it was a really hard momentfor me, and I was, I remember
crying, and my dad was like,"You know, it's okay.
" And that was actually reallyimportant for me to hear that
from him.
It's okay.
(08:41):
And I think sometimes as youngpeople, we can put a lot of
pressures on ourselves thataren't actually there.
Hollyn (08:41):
Yeah.
Abigail (08:41):
And that's part of the journey of Ever and her parents,
they love each other so much,but they don't have the language
or the understanding to fullyconnect until later.
Hollyn (08:51):
That's such an inspiring and powerful story.
The fact that you see so muchof yourself in Ever, and you
were able to communicate thatthrough the paper so well,
that's so inspiring.
I also wanted to congratulateyou on your movie, Love in
Taipei.
I hate to change the subject,but can you explain what it was
like to have it turn into amovie and also the process of
being the executive producer?
Abigail (09:12):
Yeah, it was really incredible to see the words on
the page turn into thesebeautiful images on the screen.
And you know, I think awriter's life can be very
solitary, it's just you and thepage and then your editor and
agent.
It's a small team.
You have more control over thestory, but I enjoy having people
(09:33):
around--and so that's the fun,I think, of doing a movie is
there's 300 people by the end.
And what I often say-- Imentioned when we were chatting
in the green room, is the movieis quite different than the
film-- or than the books, and Ithink part of it is you're
ceding creative control to 300people, and in some ways, no one
has control over the finalproduct because everyone brings
(09:54):
their own sensibilities to it.
I am grateful that we were ableto film it at the height of the
pandemic in Taipei, and sothere were just a small number
of us that came over from NorthAmerica, and we were on the
ground doing our thing together,and that was really magical to
be on set together.
Hollyn (10:09):
That's awesome.
Your fourth novel, Kisses,Codes and Conspiracies, it's
based on your short story, TheIdiom Algorithm.
It's quite different from theLoveboat series.
It's set in Silicon Valley,which is basically the global
headquarters of the techindustry, and you worked in that
field for a really long time.
Did that in any way helpdevelop the story?
Abigail (10:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, the best advice is towrite what you know, and
initially that actually kept mefrom writing, because I didn't
realize that you wrote what youknew.
I thought you-- I had thoughtof books as things that I didn't
know about, but when you writeyour own one, it's the things
that you're an expert in, whichis often things in your own life
.
So the Loveboat, Taipei bookswere about an experience I'd had
20 years prior, and then I'vebeen in Silicon Valley now for
(10:49):
about, I guess, 16 years or so,and so it was kind of the right
time for me to also start toreflect on this place that is so
unique.
I think there's so muchhappening with the tech
revolution that's reallyimpacted the whole world.
Artificial intelligence is inall our lives, and it's here to
(11:10):
stay, and so I felt like thingslike that, they're so unique to
the Valley.
And I did want to capturethat--but also capture, again,
these Asian-Americans thathappen to live in Silicon Valley
and I wasn't seeing reflectedin the shows that did come out.
So for this one, there'snothing particularly cultural
(11:31):
about it.
It's Tan Lee and Winter Woo,whose mother and her rent out
the back rooms of his home inPalo Alto, and then his
ex-girlfriend from Shanghai.
They end up on the run from abunch of international thugs
that are chasing them for thesecryptocurrencies that have come
into their possession throughRebecca.
And you know, definitelycryptocurrency is something I
had looked at 10 years ago whenpeople were still excited about
Bitcoin mining and all that.
(11:53):
And it worked for the storybecause it was Rebecca's
father's stash, his moneystash-- which is why
cryptocurrencies are illegal inparts of the world, it's a way
to hide from governments.
I just thought it was kind oflike the story of the
inheritance money, or the moneythat's hidden under the mattress
, but in a totally differentform, a modernized form.
Hollyn (12:15):
It's so cool, and I love how this book is so
action-packed.
When I was reading it I waslike, oh, this could totally be
a Marvel movie.
What was the experience you hadwriting in this genre, because
it's not realistic fiction orcontemporary or fantasy?
Abigail (12:28):
Yeah, so my team describes it as a young adult
thriller or a thrillmantic,because it's a thriller plus
rom-com, romantic comedy.
You know, I actually havealways written stories like this
, I just didn't publish them.
So as a kid I told stories tomy brother and sister of
adventures of us in the worldwithout adults, and there was
usually a thriller element ordystopian or fantasy.
(12:52):
And I wrote four novels on theway to Loveboat, Taipei that I
had to bury, and my second oneactually was a young adult
thriller set in Asia, and thatone, for various reasons, I
didn't end up publishing.
So I think in some ways this isjust more of me.
I just happen to have a lot ofdifferent types of stories in me
.
Hollyn (13:10):
Are you an older sibling ?
Abigail (13:12):
I am, yeah.
Hollyn (13:12):
Me too, because I had to tell stories to my little
brother.
Abigail (13:15):
There you go, yeah!
Hollyn (13:17):
So I wanted to talk about Tan a little bit, the male
protagonist and the maincharacter.
Your previous stories, they allhave female main characters,
and so was that any differentthan-- I mean, I'm sure it's
different, but how was thatdifferent than writing through,
like, Ever?
Abigail (13:31):
For sure, for sure, it was definitely a different
challenge.
Book two, as you know, LoveboatReunion, is dual point of view,
with Xavier and Sophie, and sothat was hard too, especially
because Xavier is so differentfrom me.
Where Xavier and I are similaris in his neurodiversity, and so
then that was a point ofconnection, and also he's a
visual thinker and a filmmaker.
But Tan, yeah, Tan was hard,but this one for some reason,
(13:53):
just came out that way.
I have--with the secondLoveboat, my editor and my team
basically advised they did wanta female protagonist, because
that was consistent with whatI'd done with book one.
But with this one my editorjust kind of let me do it.
And the funny thing is, when Ithink about my forthcoming books
, they all have maleprotagonists, too.
I think I just write what comes, what feels right for that
(14:18):
particular book.
And Tan, you know, my point ofconnection to him is something I
didn't realize until later, buthe has imposter
syndrome--growing up in SiliconValley, surrounded by all these
amazing kids, and then havingparents who are industry leaders
in cryptography.
He doesn't realize how good heis and how well he's been
trained, but he also has naturalgiftings.
(14:38):
And he kind of has to go onthis entire international heist
journey to realize how good heis and to get off his butt and
apply for the internship that hewas too scared to apply for.
Hollyn (14:54):
And, I mean, when Sana got hurt, and there's multiple
instances where Sana is put indanger--
Abigail (14:56):
--his younger sister, yeah.
Hollyn (14:58):
--and he just beats himself up for it and I'm like,
"No, Tan, stop it!".
I can totally see the impostersyndrome because he thought he
was such a horrible brother toSana, and I guess in a way, if
you think about it, he could be,but he's just-- he feels like a
friendly giant to me.
Abigail (15:16):
Yeah, he's got his own fumbles and yeah, I think that
was a big key learning for him,too, is no matter how much he
screwed up, his sister justloves him and she just-- that's
all she wants, is just for himto be there with her.
Hollyn (15:30):
She might get a little mad if she doesn't go to Barnes
and Noble.
Abigail (15:33):
Yeah, and like the delay in her cookies.
Hollyn (15:34):
Yeah, you don't want to get in the way of little
siblings and their sugar.
Abigail (15:38):
Absolutely.
But I think he also learns whathe's capable of doing, and how
much he'll do to protect theones that he loves, and that's a
really important learning forhim, too.
Hollyn (15:47):
Your fifth novel, The Vale, is coming out soon, which
is super exciting,congratulations!
Abigail (15:52):
Thank you.
Hollyn (15:53):
And you're also directing a short film related
to the book, which is also superexciting, yay! Can you tell us
briefly a little bit about thebook?
Abigail (16:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
At the time we're doing thispodcast, and I know it's going
to be released a little later, Iam actually right about to film
.
We're going to go to set in twodays, so super excited.
But we have an amazing cast.
Lea Salonga, who was mychildhood hero growing up--she
was the voice of Mulan, Jasmineand played Miss Saigon on
Broadway, as well as Eponine inLes Miserables, so really just
(16:23):
my childhood hero-- she agreedto play our lead, Addie, who's
the mom.
The story is about the Leefamily.
They're an inventor familyliving in Silicon Valley that
created this virtual realityworld powered by artificial
intelligence, or it's anAI-generated virtual reality
world.
And in the novel, it's a middlegrade novel, the main character
(16:46):
Bran is 13 years old, and he haslived too long in this virtual
reality world that hisneurodiverse parents have
created.
He just wants this world tobecome real, and the real world
for him is hard because hisparents have fallen on hard
times.
All of their inventions havefailed, even though he believes
that they're brilliant,especially because he's got this
Vale, but he really just wisheshis elves in this world would
(17:09):
come to life.
And there are opportunities forhim to submit this Vale into
competition, and that's kind ofthe backbone of the story.
But as he's entering in thesecompetitions, which are the hope
for his family as well as forthe Vale, things start to break
down in that world.
And so that's kind of hischallenge, can he figure out
what's going on before both hisworlds are destroyed?
(17:31):
So it's such a strange andbizarre book.
It was actually my fourth novelon the way to Loveboat, Taipei.
I wrote it as my creativethesis for Vermont College of
Fine Arts, and it never saw thelight of day, because my rep at
the time said that they justdidn't know what it was.
It was just this weird bookthat I wrote in 2015 about
artificial intelligencegeneration, and nobody
(17:52):
understood what it was.
And so now the world hasfinally caught up, and I could
finally publish it.
Because it's such a weird book,it goes back and forth between
the real world and the virtualreality world, the two
storylines that eventuallyconverge.
I really wanted to show whatthat could look like on the
screen, because I felt like itwas probably hard to grok.
And so my short film has likethree different purposes: One
(18:13):
is that it's a proof of concept,because it does cut between the
real world and an animatedworld.
And that's been so much fun towork with the team on, on our
calls, we'll have the animatorand the post-production producer
and the art director, and sojust like everyone working
together to bring about acohesive piece.
(18:34):
So it's a proof of concept forwhat a feature-length film could
look like, it's my directorialdebut, which has been so much
fun.
Hollyn (18:42):
Congratulations!
Abigail (18:43):
Thank you.
Yeah, we have a reallywonderful cast and crew.
And it supports the book launch.
Books in general are just sohard to get word out on, and so
I'm thrilled to have this assetcoming in to really help get the
word out and also further ourgoals of diverse stories.
Again, this is a story wherethe family happens to be diverse
(19:05):
, but the story itself is auniversal one.
Hollyn (19:07):
What's your favorite and least favorite part of the
writing process?
Abigail (19:17):
I love all of it in different ways.
There is something reallysatisfying about finishing, but
you get there so rarely.
I've only been there five timesnow.
But the idea generation issomething that just happens all
day long for me.
Like wherever I go, I get ideas, and so then I'll just slot
them into a note file on myphone, and then when I have a
moment to sit down and kind ofgo through all those ideas, then
I figure out what to do withthem.
So that's fun to see the chaosslowly take shape and form into
(19:41):
something.
But I think I do love it mostwhen I have a first draft that I
can actually finally start tomassage, because when it's
amorphous and I'm not sure, andI know the emotional heart of it
but I don't know what'shappening, then it's this
unwieldy thing.
But that is also part of thefun.
Hollyn (19:56):
Yeah, it is part of the fun, but I do have to say
sometimes when you get to thatpart, it's like I want to burn
this thing to the ground andnever look back.
Abigail (20:04):
Totally, because you're also a writer.
Hollyn (20:06):
Yeah.
Abigail (20:07):
How is your process, what's your favorite part?
Hollyn (20:08):
Well, I mean, I tried writing a novel, and that did
not work at all.
Abigail (20:13):
It takes a long time.
Hollyn (20:13):
It takes a long time.
I've mostly been sticking withshorter formatting, like poems.
I've written a lot of poems andI actually do have a short-- I
don't know how to describe it,it's like a short horror-
thriller, psychological shortstory that's about body image,
which is very much still beingrevised.
What was the most difficultcharacter for you to write and
why?
Abigail (20:33):
Oh, I think it might actually be Pearl--
Hollyn (20:35):
Really?
Abigail (20:35):
--the star of book three, because she's a younger
sibling and, as we just talkedabout, we're both olders, and so
I had these perspectives on theyounger sibling, like the older
one paves the way with theparents.
So it was fun, it was a funchallenge to put myself in her
(20:56):
shoes, and I helped myself outof it by having her be quite a
bit younger than Ever.
And then I found that Iactually really enjoyed how she
could interact with the Wongfamily in a different way than
her big sister.
Ever had a very fraughtrelationship with her parents,
as you know, and even, I think,at the time of book three, which
takes place six years later,it's never a perfect
relationship.
But Pearl, as it turned out,had a good relationship with her
mother because of all this timethey spent together, driving
around to all her music events,and then having her older sister
(21:19):
pave the way helped for sure.
So I enjoyed the fact that Pearl was close to their mother so
that in some ways, you couldhumanize the mom too, and show
what her hopes were.
I actually love those littlemoments when Pearl would be
like, you should take a phototoo, you should get a glamor
shot too, even though her mom'slike no, no, no, I'm too old.
And just the ways that Pearlcould care for her mother, and
(21:45):
Pearl having her mother andsister come out to join her on
Loveboat, I just felt like forme, it was an opportunity to
bring the whole family fullcircle.
And I think it's because I hadto do all that work of digging
into who Pearl was and why shewas different than Ever that we
got to bring all these thingsabout.
Hollyn (21:56):
And if you really think about it, it's almost like you
get two different perspectivesof what Ever and Pearl's mom is
like, because in Ever's book youget mean tiger mom, but then in
Pearl's book you get this sortof nurturing and kind,
thoughtful person.
And so it was really nice tohave two different sides,
because then that makes the momreally fleshed out as well.
Abigail (22:16):
Yeah, I'm glad I had that opportunity, because I
think the dad had his ownjourney in book one, so he came
around.
But yeah, I'm really glad I hadthat time.
Hollyn (22:26):
Who are some of your role models and influences as a
writer?
Abigail (22:29):
Ooh, good question.
So I always talk about mycritique partners who were there
at the beginning, and we met invarious ways, like I met Eileen
Wong, her pen name is IWGregorio.
We met at an SCBWI conference,and she was a resident at
Stanford Medical School tryingto write YA novels, and I was a
young attorney trying to writeYA novels, and so it was a good
match.
And we started trading worksand other people joined us, like
(22:51):
Sonia Mukherjee, who's alsopublished a young adult book,
Gemini.
And I met Sabaa Tahir, who'sactually the first
Pakistani-American to win theNational Book Award for Young
People's Literature, and StaceyLee, who writes historical
Asian-American stories, KellyLoy Gilbert, similarly
historical and contemporaryAsian-American stories.
And I just learned so much fromthem.
(23:13):
And in my low points in mywriting career, like when
Loveboat was rejected and I justdidn't know what else to do,
they were the ones whoencouraged me, came around me
and kept me going and had suchinvaluable advice.
I really admire all their works.
Hollyn (23:26):
That's awesome.
And what do you hope youraudience takes away from your
own work?
Abigail (23:32):
Well, I think we talked a little about the humanizing
of the characters, but reallythe big themes that matter to me
, I think, are the familydynamics, the complexity of
those family dynamics.
Identity was a theme inLoveboat.
Believing in yourself and beingempowered, is a theme, I think
, in Kisses, Codes andConspiracies.
I think of myself as a bridgebuilder, and I'm trying to build
(23:57):
bridges across many differentcommunities.
I think the fact that I grew upin Ohio as an Asian- American,
I thought a lot about how tobridge that gap growing up, and
so that's reflected in thesebooks.
But I also think about how do Ibridge the technology world
with the people who are afraidof technology, and that's
something I did as part of mycareer.
Implicit bias is something thatI really faced as a woman in
tech, and so I think about howdo I bridge that world to people
(24:19):
who've never experienced it,like what does it mean when your
ideas are just not considered?
I think Taylor Swift is reallythe master of it with her song
The Man-- it just completely,completely captured it-- you
know, explaining thoseexperiences.
And then with gender andsexuality, there's still such a
big gap.
I think for me, having grown upin Ohio, which is a more
conservative community, and nowliving here in Silicon Valley, I
(24:42):
do have the vocabulary and thelanguage to see where people are
really missing each other on alot of these issues.
And so my hope is to be able tospeak across these divides and
to bring people together.
Hollyn (24:52):
That's awesome, and I certainly took a lot of that, if
not all of that, away from allof your work.
So why don't we do some funlightning round questions?
So I'll ask a quick question,you give a quick answer.
Abigail (25:03):
Sounds fun, yeah! Can you give a quick answer too?
Hollyn (25:08):
Sure, alright-- ready, set, go! Dogs or cats?
Abigail (25:11):
Dogs.
Hollyn (25:12):
Cats.
Abigail (25:13):
Ah, you're a cat person .
I don't know if we can do thisinterview anymore.
Hollyn (25:15):
Oh wait, wow, I mean--
Abigail (25:17):
I'm totally kidding!
Hollyn (25:18):
I'm allergic to cats, like, I die when I'm around cats
, but they are the most adorablethings ever.
Abigail (25:22):
Yeah, no, no, no.
Actually, I have dear friendswho are cat people, and we
actually have a half-feral catin our yard, so we're good.
Hollyn (25:30):
What about your favorite movie?
Abigail (25:31):
Favorite movie?
That's a hard one, but I dolove Back to the Future, which I
just recently watched again,and I think it's influenced some
of my future work that'shopefully coming.
Hollyn (25:39):
Oh my gosh.
I have to say my favorite movieis probably Ant-Man.
Abigail (25:45):
That was a good one.
I watched that with my family.
Hollyn (25:48):
And this is really silly, but Home Alone.
Abigail (25:51):
I love that too, yeah.
Hollyn (25:52):
I know, it's hilarious when the spider's on his face.
Abigail (25:55):
It's super heartwarming, yeah.
Hollyn (25:57):
Your favorite ice cream flavor?
Abigail (25:59):
Ooh, that's a hard one.
Because I love so manyvarieties, but I've had like
lavender- olive oil or balsamicvinegar, and those combinations
are just super fun.
Hollyn (26:09):
Salt and Straw?
Abigail (26:09):
Possibly, but I feel like-- actually I think it was
Scoops, here in the LA area.
My college roommate Judybrought me.
Hollyn (26:15):
I have to say my favorite ice cream flavor is
Thai tea ice cream with boba.
Abigail (26:20):
Oh right, I've seen that one.
Hollyn (26:21):
It's so good, so I have to say that's my favorite ice
cream.
Is cereal a soup?
Abigail (26:28):
I think that is such an interesting question.
I've never thought of it thatway before, but it could be.
Hollyn (26:33):
I don't think it's a soup, because the milk is
optional.
Soup, the liquid is mandatory.
Abigail (26:41):
True, but I like the concept of stretching what we
understand the word to mean.
So thank you for the question.
Hollyn (26:46):
Of course.
Let's go in the same vein (26:46):
is a hot dog a sandwich?
Abigail (26:50):
Ooh, I think I would say no.
Hollyn (26:53):
Yeah, me too.
Could Jack have fit on that doorin Titanic?
Abigail (26:58):
Yes, I know, right?
Why did he have to die?
Hollyn (27:00):
I know, it's like-- Jack !
Abigail (27:03):
I do have to say something about that door though
, apparently--because mycritique partner I mentioned,
Stacey Lee, wrote Luck of theTitanic, which is about the
eight Chinese who were on theTitanic--and that door scene was
actually the Chinese people.
That was taken for the movie,for the last scene.
Hollyn (27:19):
Oh wow, that's awesome!
Abigail (27:20):
Yeah, fun fact.
Hollyn (27:22):
Noted.
What's your favorite pizzatopping?
Abigail (27:27):
Mushrooms.
Hollyn (27:27):
Mushrooms?
Oh yeah, I love mushrooms.
Abigail (27:29):
Besides the cheese and sauce, of course.
Hollyn (27:30):
Yes, obviously, I mean, what is pizza without cheese and
sauce?
I feel like if I say pineapple,I'm going to get cancelled.
Abigail (27:39):
No, I love pineapple, too, on pizzas--Hawaiian.
Hollyn (27:41):
What's your guilty pleasure dance song?
Abigail (27:43):
Ooh, oh, I have one, actually-- it's The Greatest
Showman.
Hollyn (27:47):
Oh, that's a good one.
Abigail (27:48):
Yeah, anything from The Greatest Showman.
Hollyn (27:49):
I have to say my guilty pleasure dance song, it's called
Hot To Go by Chappell Roan.
Abigail (27:54):
Ooh.
I haven't heard it yet.
Hollyn (27:55):
It's like H-O-T-T-O-G-O, there's a whole dance.
Abigail (27:57):
Oh, that's like a new YMCA.
Hollyn (27:59):
Yeah, I guess.
But other than Hot To Go, I dohave to say Bohemian Rhapsody.
Abigail (28:04):
Ooh, love that one.
Hollyn (28:06):
Which superpower would you choose, flight or
invisibility?
Abigail (28:17):
Oh, I've had this before, and I don't actually
remember what my prior answerswere.
I think invisibility-- Iprobably said flying in the past
, but there's so much you can doif you're invisible.
Hollyn (28:20):
I know, because you can eavesdrop.
Abigail (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Hollyn (28:21):
But then again, flying is just so cool.
I had a dream where I felt whatit was to fly.
It was like I was flying in thedream.
It was so strange, but it wasalso like, I want to experience
that again.
Abigail (28:31):
Yeah, it would be really fun.
I actually often dream offlying, but I can never fly very
high.
And then, like, someone'salways chasing me, so they just
grab my legs.
They just pull me out of theair.
Hollyn (28:42):
Me, too! I've only had this dream, like, twice, but
someone's always chasing me.
Which author, living or dead,would you want to have boba with
?
Abigail (28:48):
Oh gosh, I would probably say my critique
partners again, yeah, and I'mfortunate that I do get to see
them when they come through townor if we're doing book events
together.
Hollyn (28:55):
Last question for the lightning round
give one piece of advice to youryounger self, what would it be?
Abigail (29:01):
"You'll get there.
" So I mentioned growing up inOhio, it was lonely and it was--
I was very different than mypeers.
I did have some friends, whichI'm grateful for.
There were some really lowmoments there, and I think I
would go back to that child andbe like, you know, it's going to
actually be okay.
Hollyn (29:18):
That's so sweet.
Okay, so before we wrap up, Iwanted to ask you if there's any
particular cause ororganization near and dear to
your heart.
As you know, Stories WithoutBorders is very big on stories
and service and using that topositively impact the world, so
Stories Without Borders wouldlove to amplify anything that
you care about.
Abigail (29:36):
Thank you.
Yeah, so Little Lights UrbanMinistry is a ministry in
Washington DC, in the city, thatwas started by a
Korean-American couple, Steveand Mary Park.
So my husband and I actuallymet each other volunteering
there, and they work with theyouth in the neighborhood.
I just saw them a couple monthsago, and they actually have
grown up with these kids foryears.
(29:57):
And for one of them hadgraduated from high school but
was just kind of hanging out andwasn't doing anything, so they
actually helped him apply tocollege, and he got into college
.
So I just love the labor oflove that they're doing, walking
alongside these kids for yearsand years, and they've really
expanded to where they're takingon properties around DC and
(30:21):
converting them and making themhealthy, safe places for
communities to gather.
So yeah, Little Lights UrbanMinistry.
Hollyn (30:26):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for coming onto this podcast.
It means so much to me.
It's such an honor to have you.
Just before you go, can youtell our listeners, if there's
anything they can do to supportyour work or anything that you
love?
Abigail (30:40):
Yeah, thank you.
So for any book launch, the keyis actually the pre-orders,
which actually are quite hard todo.
You have to call the bookstoreand put the order in, and it's
actually best to pre-order atour local independent bookstores
and Barnes and Noble to supportthem.
Hollyn (30:55):
Don't pre-order off of Amazon, guys.
Abigail (30:57):
Yeah, Amazon is easy, but yes, pre-order at the local
store.
So for The Vale I think that'sthe request, to support that one
.
And then for the other books,helping to spread the word, and
one of the ways you can do thatis word of mouth, but also
rating on Amazon and Goodreadsgoes a long way, but for some
(31:21):
reason my readership doesn'ttend to rate there.
So I get a lot of DMs, and I'malways like, " Can you please
rate?
" So I think rating, if you getover a certain number then the
algorithms help to push the bookeven more widely.
So that's super helpful.
Hollyn (31:24):
We will be sure to rate.
Abigail (31:25):
Thank you.
Hollyn (31:25):
Everybody, do what Abigail said, because she's an
amazing author that deserves tohave her work out there.
Thank you again so much forcoming, it's been such a
pleasure to have you.
Abigail (31:33):
Oh, thank you so much for having me and again, thank
you for the wonderful,thoughtful questions.
Hollyn (31:38):
Thanks for listening to Stories Without Borders, the
podcast.
Please rate and review the showon your favorite podcast
platform.
You can learn more online atStoriesWithoutBorders.
org, or follow us on Instagram@Stories_WithoutBorders.
And if you like watching yourpodcasts, subscribe to our
YouTube channel @Stories_Without Borders.
(31:59):
Stories Without Borders thepodcast is written, hosted and
produced by me, Hollyn Alpert.
I also wrote and performed thetheme music.
Danuta Amato is our soundengineer, audio editor and
videographer.
Kennedy Hibbert is our videoeditor.
Thanks to Liberty Yanaga andLangston Williams for production
support.
See you all next time!
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