December 15, 2025 • 17 mins
In this episode of Stories Worth Hearing, host John Quick sits down with Dr. Mary Talley Bowden for an open and personal conversation about her journey into medicine and the experiences that shaped her views as a physician. Dr. Bowden reflects on when she first decided to pursue a medical career and how years of working directly with patients influenced her approach to care.
The conversation explores what she witnessed during the COVID years that raised serious concerns for her as a doctor, and how those experiences led her to speak more openly about patient choice, informed consent, and trust in the healthcare system. Dr. Bowden also discusses why she founded Americans for Health Freedom, what the organization stands for, and why empowering patients to ask questions and take an active role in their health matters now more than ever.
She also shares why she decided to write her book, Dangerous Misinformation: The Virus, the Treatments, and the Lies, and what she hopes readers take away from it. The episode includes reflections on her recent appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience and what it was like stepping onto one of the largest media platforms in the world. This is a thoughtful, human focused conversation about medicine, responsibility, and the real stories behind the headlines.
Learn more and explore Dr. Bowden’s work:
Americans for Health Freedom: https://www.americansforhealthfreedom.org/
BreatheMD: https://breathemd.org/
Dangerous Misinformation: The Virus, the Treatments, and the Lies: https://amzn.to/48GbiTQ
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Stories worth hearing.
I am your host John Quick. Today I am joined by Doctor Mary
Talley Bowden, a practicing physician, founder of Breathe
MD, author, and health freedom advocate.
Doctor Bowden has spent years working directly with patients
and became a prominent voice during the COVID years based on
what she was seeing first hand in her medical practice.
(00:22):
She is also the founder of Americans for Health Freedom and
the author of Dangerous Misinformation, The Virus, The
Treatments, and The Lies. You may have also seen her
recently on The Joe Rogan Experience.
Today we talk about her path into medicine, what she
experienced during COVID, why she started Americans for Health
Freedom, and what she hopes people better understand about
(00:44):
their own health. I am glad you are here.
Let's get into it. Well, Doctor, welcome to the
show. I'm super excited you're on.
This will be really fun to chat with you today.
Thanks so much for having me, John.
Well, this would be great. So I kind of first stumbled upon
your stuff a number of years ago, but then I recently saw
that you were on the Joe Rogan Podcast.
(01:06):
And ma'am, talk to me a little bit about that before we dive
into your work because the Joe Rogan Podcast is like the
biggest media outlet arguably inthe whole world and you got to
go on that. Tell me about your experience.
What was it like? Was it surreal?
How was he just kind of give us a little sneak peek of behind
the scenes there? Yeah, it was probably one of the
(01:28):
most challenging things I feel like I've ever done.
Not that he was intimidating, hewas very warm and friendly, but
just the gigantic audience was very daunting.
So prepping for that interview was incredibly stressful.
I brought one of my kids with me, which was fun.
We were in and out. It wasn't a lot of socializing,
(01:49):
it was just. Yeah, but it was great.
He was super nice, and his staffwas incredibly nice.
And you know, the podcast takes place in this strip center in
this nondescript building. You would have no idea that one
of the most famous people in America was doing all those
podcasts there, but it was great.
(02:11):
That's awesome. So take me back to kind of what
made you first decide to get into the to the medical career.
You've had some really awesome, I would think, successes and
breakthroughs. We're going to talk about your
book here in a second, but what made you first kind of step foot
into the medical field? Well, curiosity mostly.
I loved science, I loved biology.
(02:34):
I I loved school. I was sort of a nerd and, you
know, I enjoyed studying. I enjoyed the challenge of the
material and I wanted a career, so it all sort of came together.
I It is very gratifying as a doctor when you can, yeah.
I don't save lives everyday, butwhen you impact somebody's
(02:57):
health in a positive fashion, itis very gratifying.
And, you know, one of my big arguments with COVID was I
wouldn't use the same treatment over and over again if it wasn't
working because that's just verydiscouraging as a doctor to have
your patients do poorly and end up in the hospital.
So if, yeah, I got highly criticized for using ivermectin.
(03:19):
But yeah, I wouldn't keep using it over and over again if I
didn't find it that it worked. So you know, being a doctor is
very rewarding when your patients get better.
Yeah. You know, during COVID, it was
probably, I mean, you were taking a lot of shots off the
(03:39):
bow and, you know, a lot of the stuff that you took shots off
the bow for. Now folks have come back and
said, oh, yeah, Ivermectin. It actually did kind of work.
I took ivermectin during COVID. Talk to me a little bit about
what that was like being in, youknow, your viewpoint.
It's probably similar to my viewpoint during COVID, but it
(03:59):
wasn't popular in the media to have that sort of opinion.
What was that like being kind ofsolo on an island by yourself?
It was wild because I, you know,I'm a mom.
I was actually sort of working part time.
I just started a new practice. I when COVID hit, I sort of
thought, well, this really won'taffect me because I'm not in a
big practice. I'm not in the hospitals and
(04:23):
didn't expect to get thrown intoit at all.
So it was, I was blindsided by the whole experience to say the
least. But yeah, I just saw so much.
I've never treated that many patients with a single disease
in my career. I I doubt I ever will.
You quickly become an expert when you see the same thing over
and over again. I mean, I ended up treating over
(04:45):
6000 COVID patients. So I quickly figured out what
worked and what. What was it in you that you
know, because I think a lot of folks would either, you know, be
fearful or scared of the pushback from the media or not
want to kind of stand up in the media for what you believe in.
What do you think was that sparkinside of you that said, listen,
(05:05):
I'm not going to back down to this.
I know it works and I'm going tostand up for myself and my
patients because most that's hard to do.
Most people don't do that. Well, thankfully they attacked
me so hard that I felt like I had no choice but to fight back.
I mean, literally, if they had come at me much softer, I might
not have fought back so hard. But you know, they tried to
(05:25):
destroy me. I, you know, they went after me
so hard, Houston Methodist Hospital told the Houston
Chronicle. They were suspending my
privileges for spreading dangerous misinformation, and I
found out through a reporter. And so that was such a gut punch
that I just just ignited a fire in me.
(05:47):
Plus, you know, I'm just seeing so much first hand.
I continue to see injured patients in my clinic on almost
a daily basis. So it just keeps me going.
It's very frustrating to me thatnot more has been done or
actually pretty much nothing hasbeen done to help the injured
and hold people accountable for what happened during the
(06:08):
pandemic. Is that have you seen the Trump
administration RFK do anything to kind of course correct the
COVID vaccine or, you know, vaccine scheduling or come up
with ways to treat patients thatare having adverse reactions to,
you know, taking the COVID vaccine for one time and then 10
(06:29):
boosters later. Have you seen any sort of oh
crap we need to help fix this from the administration that's
currently there? Bread crumbs.
So, you know, they've changed the recommendations, they remove
the EUA, they there's talk that they're going to put a black box
warning on the shots. They're I'm not aware of any NIH
(06:51):
funded studies to help the injured.
That's a huge frustration of mine because I feel like I'm
just sort of trial and error. You know, I have doctors across
the country that I communicate with about what they're doing
and we're doing the best we can,but some of these patients are
really challenging and we're just sort of doing as much as we
can. But you know, the government
(07:11):
should step in and and help the injured.
So one of the things you did, which I thought was very
inspirational, is you founded anorganization, Americans,
Americans for Health Freedom. Talk to me about kind of the why
behind starting that and what that organization does.
Yes. So there was a representative,
Brad Pequet from Michigan who suffered from myocarditis
(07:35):
following the COVID shots and young guy and he was tweeting
about it. And so I connected with him on X
and I said, would you be willingjust to state that the COVID
shot should be pulled off the market?
And this was two years ago, I believe.
And he wholeheartedly said yes. And that just gave me the
inspiration to build this coalition of politicians who are
(07:57):
just willing to all they have todo is state that the COVID shot
should be pulled off the market.But that's a hard thing for most
politicians to do, even if they believe it, because it goes
basically blackballs them from big pharma donations.
And then, you know, it's becoming less controversial to
say that, but especially back two years ago, super hard to say
(08:18):
that. So that list keeps growing.
And when politicians join the list, they get they get free
marketing from from me. And I have a big audience on X
and I try to support them on X and get the word out that if to
me it's a litmus test, if you can say that publicly, that's a
(08:38):
sign of integrity and courage. So how, how big of a list are we
talking about it? Do we have a dozen on there?
A couple dozen? How?
What's the list like as of today?
It's about 250. We have three members of
Congress, Marjorie Gilli Green. Yeah, Dean, Ron Johnson, Thomas
Massie. We have the surgeon general of
(09:00):
Florida, but we have a lot of state representative state
centers. We have precinct chairs.
We have school board members. So it's a wide range of power
positions. So folks are going to be
listening to this from all over the US Could they go on there
and what encourage their electedrepresentative to sign the
(09:21):
petition? How?
What could they do to kind of help spur this on?
Yeah, that would be wonderful. If you go to
americansforhealthfreedom.org, there's a pledge.
It's very simple. You could send the link, you
could e-mail it to your representatives, or you could
publicly ask them to do it on X,which is what I like to do,
(09:42):
apply a little public pressure to them.
But yeah, if we can just keep that momentum going, that would
be great. So you didn't stop there.
You went on to write a book. I think it's out on pre release
on Amazon. We're going to put the link in
the podcast description. Dangerous misinformation.
Talk to us a little bit about why you wrote the book and
little sneak behind the curtainson what what it's about.
(10:04):
It's my tell all. So it's, you know, I go into the
gory details of all, all the abuse and then, you know,
patients stories and it's unfortunately the story is not
complete. So I'm hoping they'll be a Part
2 where I am ultimately vindicated because I'm still,
I'm still fighting the Texas medical board.
(10:26):
We did have a win against the FDA, which was huge.
The FDA, we sued them for misinformation, for stepping
outside of their bounds as a government organization.
They really interfere with the doctor patient relationship.
They put out that horse tweet and they basically told people
you should not take ivermectin for COVID, which they're not
(10:47):
allowed to do. And we sued them and won, which
is very hard to see the government.
So we're quite proud of that victory.
Yeah, Yeah, that's a huge deal. I mean, most people, you know,
government's got unlimited amount of resources and so to
win against them is a pretty huge deal.
What's your advice to folks thatare trying to make a difference?
Because you know, you're, I think the, one of the things I
(11:09):
love about your story is you're one person and you've made such
a huge impact across the United States and probably worldwide,
had your message go in front of millions and millions and
millions of people because you had a passion and a drive, not
because you had some huge media company behind you.
So what's some advice that you'dgive to folks that are just
(11:30):
stuck on trying to like, how do they make a difference in this
world? It seems daunting at times.
It's David versus Goliath. There's a thousand of them with
TV stations compared to 1, you know, grassroots activists.
So what's some advice you give to folks that are just trying to
figure out how to make a difference?
Well, one thing I learned is, I mean, when when you are faced
(11:53):
with a huge set back, let it sink in and then fight back
harder and you won't regret it. But there, you know, it's always
a low point before you get to your high point.
And just, you know, people are scared to go to that low point.
But it's how you respond to it. And if you fight back hard, I
have no regrets over. I mean, it was very hard for a
(12:15):
while. Yeah, I was publicly smeared and
I was embarrassed to go to my kids school and it was it was
really bad for a while, but if Ihad just coward, I would have
been, it would have been even worse.
So fighting back, speaking up, we have your social media is our
town hall now. And, you know, for better or for
(12:39):
worse, it's a great outlet for speaking your mind, rallying
other people to your cause. And I would just say, you know,
getting involved and it could beas little as social media is
what we need right now. What do you think your ultimate
goal is with this specifically? Is it to have the government
(13:03):
say, listen, we screwed up, we're sorry, we'll try to make
sure this doesn't happen again? Is it to have it, you know,
doctors in your, in your field of practice or similar to be
able to prescribe ivermectin or those kinds of things in a
situation like this? What is your ultimate goal for,
you know this, this movement you've created Americans for
(13:27):
Americans for Health Freedom. What's your ultimate goal?
Well, we need, we need to move to a decentralized form of
healthcare because what we saw is when we've got we've got
these bureaucrats controlling everything.
I mean, that's what we saw during COVID.
We had these doctors who weren'ttreating COVID patients, telling
everybody how to treat COVID from the safety of their
(13:51):
bedrooms over Zoom calls insteadof listening to the doctors that
were seeing everything and on the front lines.
So, and that's because we have acentralized healthcare system.
We have too much reliance on thegovernment telling Americans how
to manage their health. But, you know, in terms of, you
know, finite goals, I want the shots pulled off the market.
(14:13):
I want them to help the injured.And I want people held
accountable for what happened during COVID.
Well, those are some pretty lofty goals.
I hope you get to them that thatsounds like you got a lot of
work to do still. How do you state, how do you
keep inspired Because you know, you talked a little bit about
how folks could make a difference of themselves, but
(14:35):
how do you keep going? Is it your faith?
Is it your family? Is it a mix of both?
Because I think it's, you know, you've, you've had success,
right? You've created this
organization. A lot of people would just kind
of like say, OK, that's great. I'm going to go back to my
normal practice now and kind of live the quiet life.
What keeps you inspired to keep moving?
(14:56):
It's funny, a week ago I told somebody, I think I'm going to
just put, you know, pull back a little bit and just calm, you
know, just go live a normal life.
And then something made me mad and I'm like, I'm fighting
again. So what happens is I, something
happens to me and then I get riled up again.
Or, you know, I have a patient come in who is, I mean, I had a
(15:16):
patient last week who got a fourth COVID shot 2 weeks, six
weeks ago. So people are still getting
these COVID shots and his healthhas been completely destroyed.
So people are still getting these shots.
The harm is still there still. I'm still seeing the suffering
on a regular basis. And so that's what keeps me
going. Are you taking, is your practice
(15:38):
taking patients from all over the US or they'd have to
physically be located? Where are your practices?
Yeah, unfortunately the the laws, I have to see them in
person for their first visit. But I mean, I do have people
flying from other places. That's awesome.
So you know, one of the things that I think has stood out for
me is, you know, you go on these, I've seen you on numerous
(16:00):
podcasts and those kinds of things you got on Joe Rogan
podcast. Like we talked about before,
what are maybe what is one of your favorite moments so far
being in the media or interviewson, you know, Fox News or
whatever it may be? Give us one of your favorite
moments so far as it relates to be able to get your voice heard
out there in the podcasting world or in the news world.
(16:24):
Well, a funny moment that was just took me off guard.
I did an interview with Tucker Carlson and you know, he didn't
graduate from college, but before the interview, we were
chatting and he just started reciting also like Canterbury
Tales from memory. And I was like, how do you, how
do you know Chaucer? Like I just found out so funny
(16:45):
that somebody that dropped out of the college could recite
Middle English Chaucer. That's awesome.
Well, I appreciate you coming onour show. 20 Minutes here has
gone by in a flash. I want to encourage folks up
with the link to the book in thepodcast description and the link
to the Americans for Health Freedom as well in the podcast
description. Doctor, do you have any last
(17:05):
minute thoughts here before we head off?
I appreciate you for having me on and hopefully we'll reach a
broader audience, so thank you so much.
Well, thank you so much, Doctor.We wish you nothing but success
here and we hope you have a great rest of your day.
And I look forward to the episode being out.
Folks. Like I said, the link to the
book is in the podcast description and the link to the
(17:28):
Americans for Health Freedom is also in the podcast description.
And we hope you have a good day.Thanks, Doctor.
Thank you, John.
Welcome to Stories worth hearing.
I am your host John Quick. Today I am joined by Doctor Mary
Talley Bowden, a practicing physician, founder of Breathe
MD, author, and health freedom advocate.
Doctor Bowden has spent years working directly with patients
and became a prominent voice during the COVID years based on
what she was seeing first hand in her medical practice.
(00:22):
She is also the founder of Americans for Health Freedom and
the author of Dangerous Misinformation, The Virus, The
Treatments, and The Lies. You may have also seen her
recently on The Joe Rogan Experience.
Today we talk about her path into medicine, what she
experienced during COVID, why she started Americans for Health
Freedom, and what she hopes people better understand about
(00:44):
their own health. I am glad you are here.
Let's get into it. Well, Doctor, welcome to the
show. I'm super excited you're on.
This will be really fun to chat with you today.
Thanks so much for having me, John.
Well, this would be great. So I kind of first stumbled upon
your stuff a number of years ago, but then I recently saw
that you were on the Joe Rogan Podcast.
(01:06):
And ma'am, talk to me a little bit about that before we dive
into your work because the Joe Rogan Podcast is like the
biggest media outlet arguably inthe whole world and you got to
go on that. Tell me about your experience.
What was it like? Was it surreal?
How was he just kind of give us a little sneak peek of behind
the scenes there? Yeah, it was probably one of the
(01:28):
most challenging things I feel like I've ever done.
Not that he was intimidating, hewas very warm and friendly, but
just the gigantic audience was very daunting.
So prepping for that interview was incredibly stressful.
I brought one of my kids with me, which was fun.
We were in and out. It wasn't a lot of socializing,
(01:49):
it was just. Yeah, but it was great.
He was super nice, and his staffwas incredibly nice.
And you know, the podcast takes place in this strip center in
this nondescript building. You would have no idea that one
of the most famous people in America was doing all those
podcasts there, but it was great.
(02:11):
That's awesome. So take me back to kind of what
made you first decide to get into the to the medical career.
You've had some really awesome, I would think, successes and
breakthroughs. We're going to talk about your
book here in a second, but what made you first kind of step foot
into the medical field? Well, curiosity mostly.
I loved science, I loved biology.
(02:34):
I I loved school. I was sort of a nerd and, you
know, I enjoyed studying. I enjoyed the challenge of the
material and I wanted a career, so it all sort of came together.
I It is very gratifying as a doctor when you can, yeah.
I don't save lives everyday, butwhen you impact somebody's
(02:57):
health in a positive fashion, itis very gratifying.
And, you know, one of my big arguments with COVID was I
wouldn't use the same treatment over and over again if it wasn't
working because that's just verydiscouraging as a doctor to have
your patients do poorly and end up in the hospital.
So if, yeah, I got highly criticized for using ivermectin.
(03:19):
But yeah, I wouldn't keep using it over and over again if I
didn't find it that it worked. So you know, being a doctor is
very rewarding when your patients get better.
Yeah. You know, during COVID, it was
probably, I mean, you were taking a lot of shots off the
(03:39):
bow and, you know, a lot of the stuff that you took shots off
the bow for. Now folks have come back and
said, oh, yeah, Ivermectin. It actually did kind of work.
I took ivermectin during COVID. Talk to me a little bit about
what that was like being in, youknow, your viewpoint.
It's probably similar to my viewpoint during COVID, but it
(03:59):
wasn't popular in the media to have that sort of opinion.
What was that like being kind ofsolo on an island by yourself?
It was wild because I, you know,I'm a mom.
I was actually sort of working part time.
I just started a new practice. I when COVID hit, I sort of
thought, well, this really won'taffect me because I'm not in a
big practice. I'm not in the hospitals and
(04:23):
didn't expect to get thrown intoit at all.
So it was, I was blindsided by the whole experience to say the
least. But yeah, I just saw so much.
I've never treated that many patients with a single disease
in my career. I I doubt I ever will.
You quickly become an expert when you see the same thing over
and over again. I mean, I ended up treating over
(04:45):
6000 COVID patients. So I quickly figured out what
worked and what. What was it in you that you
know, because I think a lot of folks would either, you know, be
fearful or scared of the pushback from the media or not
want to kind of stand up in the media for what you believe in.
What do you think was that sparkinside of you that said, listen,
(05:05):
I'm not going to back down to this.
I know it works and I'm going tostand up for myself and my
patients because most that's hard to do.
Most people don't do that. Well, thankfully they attacked
me so hard that I felt like I had no choice but to fight back.
I mean, literally, if they had come at me much softer, I might
not have fought back so hard. But you know, they tried to
(05:25):
destroy me. I, you know, they went after me
so hard, Houston Methodist Hospital told the Houston
Chronicle. They were suspending my
privileges for spreading dangerous misinformation, and I
found out through a reporter. And so that was such a gut punch
that I just just ignited a fire in me.
(05:47):
Plus, you know, I'm just seeing so much first hand.
I continue to see injured patients in my clinic on almost
a daily basis. So it just keeps me going.
It's very frustrating to me thatnot more has been done or
actually pretty much nothing hasbeen done to help the injured
and hold people accountable for what happened during the
(06:08):
pandemic. Is that have you seen the Trump
administration RFK do anything to kind of course correct the
COVID vaccine or, you know, vaccine scheduling or come up
with ways to treat patients thatare having adverse reactions to,
you know, taking the COVID vaccine for one time and then 10
(06:29):
boosters later. Have you seen any sort of oh
crap we need to help fix this from the administration that's
currently there? Bread crumbs.
So, you know, they've changed the recommendations, they remove
the EUA, they there's talk that they're going to put a black box
warning on the shots. They're I'm not aware of any NIH
(06:51):
funded studies to help the injured.
That's a huge frustration of mine because I feel like I'm
just sort of trial and error. You know, I have doctors across
the country that I communicate with about what they're doing
and we're doing the best we can,but some of these patients are
really challenging and we're just sort of doing as much as we
can. But you know, the government
(07:11):
should step in and and help the injured.
So one of the things you did, which I thought was very
inspirational, is you founded anorganization, Americans,
Americans for Health Freedom. Talk to me about kind of the why
behind starting that and what that organization does.
Yes. So there was a representative,
Brad Pequet from Michigan who suffered from myocarditis
(07:35):
following the COVID shots and young guy and he was tweeting
about it. And so I connected with him on X
and I said, would you be willingjust to state that the COVID
shot should be pulled off the market?
And this was two years ago, I believe.
And he wholeheartedly said yes. And that just gave me the
inspiration to build this coalition of politicians who are
(07:57):
just willing to all they have todo is state that the COVID shot
should be pulled off the market.But that's a hard thing for most
politicians to do, even if they believe it, because it goes
basically blackballs them from big pharma donations.
And then, you know, it's becoming less controversial to
say that, but especially back two years ago, super hard to say
(08:18):
that. So that list keeps growing.
And when politicians join the list, they get they get free
marketing from from me. And I have a big audience on X
and I try to support them on X and get the word out that if to
me it's a litmus test, if you can say that publicly, that's a
(08:38):
sign of integrity and courage. So how, how big of a list are we
talking about it? Do we have a dozen on there?
A couple dozen? How?
What's the list like as of today?
It's about 250. We have three members of
Congress, Marjorie Gilli Green. Yeah, Dean, Ron Johnson, Thomas
Massie. We have the surgeon general of
(09:00):
Florida, but we have a lot of state representative state
centers. We have precinct chairs.
We have school board members. So it's a wide range of power
positions. So folks are going to be
listening to this from all over the US Could they go on there
and what encourage their electedrepresentative to sign the
(09:21):
petition? How?
What could they do to kind of help spur this on?
Yeah, that would be wonderful. If you go to
americansforhealthfreedom.org, there's a pledge.
It's very simple. You could send the link, you
could e-mail it to your representatives, or you could
publicly ask them to do it on X,which is what I like to do,
(09:42):
apply a little public pressure to them.
But yeah, if we can just keep that momentum going, that would
be great. So you didn't stop there.
You went on to write a book. I think it's out on pre release
on Amazon. We're going to put the link in
the podcast description. Dangerous misinformation.
Talk to us a little bit about why you wrote the book and
little sneak behind the curtainson what what it's about.
(10:04):
It's my tell all. So it's, you know, I go into the
gory details of all, all the abuse and then, you know,
patients stories and it's unfortunately the story is not
complete. So I'm hoping they'll be a Part
2 where I am ultimately vindicated because I'm still,
I'm still fighting the Texas medical board.
(10:26):
We did have a win against the FDA, which was huge.
The FDA, we sued them for misinformation, for stepping
outside of their bounds as a government organization.
They really interfere with the doctor patient relationship.
They put out that horse tweet and they basically told people
you should not take ivermectin for COVID, which they're not
(10:47):
allowed to do. And we sued them and won, which
is very hard to see the government.
So we're quite proud of that victory.
Yeah, Yeah, that's a huge deal. I mean, most people, you know,
government's got unlimited amount of resources and so to
win against them is a pretty huge deal.
What's your advice to folks thatare trying to make a difference?
Because you know, you're, I think the, one of the things I
(11:09):
love about your story is you're one person and you've made such
a huge impact across the United States and probably worldwide,
had your message go in front of millions and millions and
millions of people because you had a passion and a drive, not
because you had some huge media company behind you.
So what's some advice that you'dgive to folks that are just
(11:30):
stuck on trying to like, how do they make a difference in this
world? It seems daunting at times.
It's David versus Goliath. There's a thousand of them with
TV stations compared to 1, you know, grassroots activists.
So what's some advice you give to folks that are just trying to
figure out how to make a difference?
Well, one thing I learned is, I mean, when when you are faced
(11:53):
with a huge set back, let it sink in and then fight back
harder and you won't regret it. But there, you know, it's always
a low point before you get to your high point.
And just, you know, people are scared to go to that low point.
But it's how you respond to it. And if you fight back hard, I
have no regrets over. I mean, it was very hard for a
(12:15):
while. Yeah, I was publicly smeared and
I was embarrassed to go to my kids school and it was it was
really bad for a while, but if Ihad just coward, I would have
been, it would have been even worse.
So fighting back, speaking up, we have your social media is our
town hall now. And, you know, for better or for
(12:39):
worse, it's a great outlet for speaking your mind, rallying
other people to your cause. And I would just say, you know,
getting involved and it could beas little as social media is
what we need right now. What do you think your ultimate
goal is with this specifically? Is it to have the government
(13:03):
say, listen, we screwed up, we're sorry, we'll try to make
sure this doesn't happen again? Is it to have it, you know,
doctors in your, in your field of practice or similar to be
able to prescribe ivermectin or those kinds of things in a
situation like this? What is your ultimate goal for,
you know this, this movement you've created Americans for
(13:27):
Americans for Health Freedom. What's your ultimate goal?
Well, we need, we need to move to a decentralized form of
healthcare because what we saw is when we've got we've got
these bureaucrats controlling everything.
I mean, that's what we saw during COVID.
We had these doctors who weren'ttreating COVID patients, telling
everybody how to treat COVID from the safety of their
(13:51):
bedrooms over Zoom calls insteadof listening to the doctors that
were seeing everything and on the front lines.
So, and that's because we have acentralized healthcare system.
We have too much reliance on thegovernment telling Americans how
to manage their health. But, you know, in terms of, you
know, finite goals, I want the shots pulled off the market.
(14:13):
I want them to help the injured.And I want people held
accountable for what happened during COVID.
Well, those are some pretty lofty goals.
I hope you get to them that thatsounds like you got a lot of
work to do still. How do you state, how do you
keep inspired Because you know, you talked a little bit about
how folks could make a difference of themselves, but
(14:35):
how do you keep going? Is it your faith?
Is it your family? Is it a mix of both?
Because I think it's, you know, you've, you've had success,
right? You've created this
organization. A lot of people would just kind
of like say, OK, that's great. I'm going to go back to my
normal practice now and kind of live the quiet life.
What keeps you inspired to keep moving?
(14:56):
It's funny, a week ago I told somebody, I think I'm going to
just put, you know, pull back a little bit and just calm, you
know, just go live a normal life.
And then something made me mad and I'm like, I'm fighting
again. So what happens is I, something
happens to me and then I get riled up again.
Or, you know, I have a patient come in who is, I mean, I had a
(15:16):
patient last week who got a fourth COVID shot 2 weeks, six
weeks ago. So people are still getting
these COVID shots and his healthhas been completely destroyed.
So people are still getting these shots.
The harm is still there still. I'm still seeing the suffering
on a regular basis. And so that's what keeps me
going. Are you taking, is your practice
(15:38):
taking patients from all over the US or they'd have to
physically be located? Where are your practices?
Yeah, unfortunately the the laws, I have to see them in
person for their first visit. But I mean, I do have people
flying from other places. That's awesome.
So you know, one of the things that I think has stood out for
me is, you know, you go on these, I've seen you on numerous
(16:00):
podcasts and those kinds of things you got on Joe Rogan
podcast. Like we talked about before,
what are maybe what is one of your favorite moments so far
being in the media or interviewson, you know, Fox News or
whatever it may be? Give us one of your favorite
moments so far as it relates to be able to get your voice heard
out there in the podcasting world or in the news world.
(16:24):
Well, a funny moment that was just took me off guard.
I did an interview with Tucker Carlson and you know, he didn't
graduate from college, but before the interview, we were
chatting and he just started reciting also like Canterbury
Tales from memory. And I was like, how do you, how
do you know Chaucer? Like I just found out so funny
(16:45):
that somebody that dropped out of the college could recite
Middle English Chaucer. That's awesome.
Well, I appreciate you coming onour show. 20 Minutes here has
gone by in a flash. I want to encourage folks up
with the link to the book in thepodcast description and the link
to the Americans for Health Freedom as well in the podcast
description. Doctor, do you have any last
(17:05):
minute thoughts here before we head off?
I appreciate you for having me on and hopefully we'll reach a
broader audience, so thank you so much.
Well, thank you so much, Doctor.We wish you nothing but success
here and we hope you have a great rest of your day.
And I look forward to the episode being out.
Folks. Like I said, the link to the
book is in the podcast description and the link to the
(17:28):
Americans for Health Freedom is also in the podcast description.
And we hope you have a good day.Thanks, Doctor.
Thank you, John.
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