Carolina Hurricanes DOMINATE Despite Injury Chaos

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Well, the Carolina Hurricanes continue to impress
this season, currently sittingat second overall in the East,
and doing so under a great dealof early adversity.
They've been on a roll, winningfive of their last seven, while
outscoring the competition26-18.
The Canes defensive core hasbeen decimated with injuries.

(00:54):
The forward lines have been influx, special teams have been
struggling, and yet the Kanesjust keep on winning.
How are they getting it done?
What have we liked in recentgames?
And what areas could useimprovement?
Joining us to talk about thatand more.

(01:22):
Now, Rachel shares herinsightful Kane's commentary
both on X, and you might haveseen her substack, Queen of the
Five.
So it's great.
Ladies, how are we doingtonight?

SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Doing great.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Alright, we're ready to talk hockey.
That's great.
Okay, so uh Rachel, before we dothat, why don't you tell us a
little bit about your hockeyexperience?
How did you get into it?
Why the Canes?
Share some of that with us,please.

SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Well, uh, I got into it when I was uh a kid.
I got into it actually throughvideo games.
Um it was the Mario and SonicOlympic video games that
Nintendo put out like 10 yearsago.
So I started playing it, and thehockey mini game was my absolute
favorite, and that really piquedmy interest in the sport.

(02:15):
Fast forward a couple years, sitin the living room, nothing on
TV, flip it over to a Canes gameand uh fell in love.
Absolute favorite sport fromthat moment on, basically.
And my dad walked in, he waslike, You like hockey?
And I was like, I love hockey.
This is great.
Turned out he loved hockey whenhe was a kid and he was obsessed

(02:36):
with it, but then he ended upyou know not really being able
to follow along as he got older,and so I got into hockey and
dragged the whole family withme.

SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Well, that's a that's a great story.
You know, it's interesting youmentioned the video games.
I'm a retro gamer, and I've gotuh hockey games going back to
the originals that they startedto do on video games.
So sometimes I pull those outand play those as well.
So it's great fun.
Anyway, that's uh that's great,Rachel.
And we are really delighted tohave you with us tonight, and uh

(03:09):
we're looking forward to uh toall the great conversation we're
gonna have together.
So uh Canes have been uh they'vebeen doing great considering,
and I talked about at the start,I mean the defensive course has
been decimated.
We've hardly even seen JacobSlavin.
We saw him in the uh broadcastbooth the other day, but we
don't see much of him on the icethese days.

(03:32):
Um and of course, uh host ofother injuries, uh Gossespare,
Chatfield, Miller, and nowCharles Alexis Lego is gone
probably for the season.
So this is uh this is hard tobelieve.
What are we thinking about thisdefense?
How could they work through thisand still win games?
Rachel, thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Um sheer determination and uh probably a
lot of prayer.
So, you know, they got it rough,but they are they they got it
they got it going though.
And that's that's reallyincredible.
I think it really kind of speaksto not just you know the the
system and everything, the theplaying style, but I think it

(04:14):
also probably speaks to thingsbeyond the stats, you know, the
the locker room, how they theybring in these these rookies and
everything.
And I mean those rookies, a lotof them are playing like
professional, you know, youknow, like they've been a
veteran of who knows how manyyears, but it's their first few
games really in the league.
It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
Yeah, and you know, you talk about the rookies, and
we're gonna spend a few minuteson some of them in a minute,
too, because I mean it's justastounding uh how they've come
in.
Some of them have just come infrom nowhere, literally, and and
uh stepped in and been playingsome big minutes.
And we'll talk a little bitabout some of those players
shortly.
But I wanted to kick it off withum Sean Walker.

(04:59):
Uh, you know, we love Walker.
We talked about him a lot inother podcasts.
We uh we always uh look forwardto see what Sean's gonna do, but
he has just really stepped uphis game.
And Katie, I know you're a bigfan of Sean.
Why don't you kick it off onSean Walker?

SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
I'm thrilled with how well Walker has done.
Um he really is the only one atthe moment who was with the
Canes last year, at least youknow, during the regular season,
that is still manning the blueline with um with Bern Norlov
signing elsewhere, and then theinjuries.
It's been up to Walker.

(05:36):
And this is only his secondyear.
So what a challenge for himbecause we know just how
demanding the canes system is,and he's really stepped up in a
big way.
He's played with lots ofdifferent D partners, some out
of experimentation, but most ofit out of necessity.
And he's really held his own andbeen strong.
You look at the stats, andperhaps they're not as shiny as

(05:57):
we would want them to be, buthe's already outpacing his
production by far offensively.
And you know, we know that he'sgetting the really tough
matchups, and so he is logging alot of minutes and he's going
against the best players forother teams.
And so that is going todefinitely present a challenge.
But he has taken it all instride.

(06:18):
His work ethic is off the chart,and it's been really great to
see him come into the in intohis own in the cane system
because it was something thatTolski and and the front office
staff obviously believed in, orthey never would have given him
that five-year contract.
So it's been it's been reallygood to see to see him uh anchor

(06:40):
that particular defensive core.
And I do think it also goes toshow that the canes missed him
last postseason more thanperhaps we realize when he was
the one who was injured, becauseyou know, maybe maybe the story
would have turned out differentagainst Florida if he had been
there instead of Morrow as theright-hander who stepped up in
to help replace him.
So um he's he's been huge, and II think he has even more to

(07:04):
give.
So I look forward to seeing howthat that works out.

SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Well, that's interesting.
When you talk about ScottMorrow, Scott Morrow's in the
American Hockey League rightnow, and uh, you know, Sean
Walker's playing upwards of 24minutes a game.
I think that I think that'sclear that he would have made a
big difference last year.
Um, you know, Walker, uh, wetalked a lot about his offense
last year.
It's interesting.
We kept saying he can he cangive more.
He's a guy that uh he skateswell, he carries the puck

(07:30):
extremely well, sees the icewell, and we just, you know,
we're looking for him to domore.
Of course, he was playingalongside uh Shane Gosses, and
and he uh he kind of deferredmore to the defensive side, I
think, last year.
Uh whereas this year he's beenplaying power play, he's been
getting a chance to really uhshow what he can do offensively.
I I think if we didn't have SeanWalker, I'm not quite sure where

(07:54):
we'd be right now, but uh he'sdefinitely been doing the job
for them.
Um another person who's beendoing the job, and we talk about
him a lot, and he just keeps onrolling and keep doing it, is
Alexander Nikishan.
And you know that I'm a massiveuh Nikkeishan fan, of course.
I followed him closely with SKASt.
Petersburg last year and was uhtalking with Nick Bass

(08:16):
repeatedly about when he getshere, he's gonna be great.
And uh, you know, we had a bitof a cup of coffee uh in the
playoffs last year, and it was atough situation for him, but
boy, he's showing it now.
Aaron, what are your thoughts onAlex Nikkeishan?

SPEAKER_03 (08:31):
I've loved watching him take on these really heavy
minutes that he's had to takeon.
And you know, um we did see alittle bit of a step back from
that in the last game.
Um, the the loss that they had,you know, um the other night.
And but but you know, because hewas once again paired with uh uh
Shane Gostaspear who came back,so that's good and good news on
that front.

(08:51):
But um giving him all that extratime while there haven't been
other players to take that thoseminutes um has helped him, I
think, to solidify the learningprocess.
The development curve has gonequicker than expected.
Um I think uh, you know, uh youwere pointing out his his uh
plus minus of 14 is uh tied forthird best in the league right

(09:11):
now.
So I mean that's prettyimpressive given the tough
matchups he's had to take on andthe heavy minutes he's had to
play.
Um you know, I know that we allknow that there's room for more,
but it's just incredible howquickly he's improved from what
we saw in the playoffs lastyear, just knowing where to be,
knowing what to do, you know,that communication coming along.
And I think a lot of people havenoticed that he's developed uh

(09:33):
quite a natural but very goodchemistry with Andre Svetnikov.
The two of them on the listtogether um can literally
communicate, which is veryhelpful.
But the uh the kind the kind ofcombinations that they've, you
know, the the working togetheron some of the plays that that
have gotten Svech kind of backin our um, you know, good good
books.

(09:54):
Um I think Nikishan's been a bigpart of that because it's uh you
know that's a lot ofresponsibility on the one hand
for Svechnikov to be the main umsource of uh any translations
needed, but on the other hand,the two of them being able to
communicate quickly on the iceis helping, I think, to make
some of those moments evensmoother.
So um I can't wait to see howhe's gonna look by the halfway

(10:15):
point of the season.
I think it's gonna beincredible.
And I think that unfortunately,um Calder conversations usually
end up revolving around points,and that they they really
shouldn't, you know, the howmany points a player has, it
shouldn't be the biggest uhfactor.
But even without that, I thinkthat um Nikkeishan should be in
those conversations and shouldbe, and you know, I wouldn't be

(10:38):
surprised to see him uh as oneof the finalists if he continues
to play the way he's playingnow.

SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that,
Aaron, because uh I did hear onanother broadcast the other
night somebody saying exactlythat that uh you know, the way
Nikishan's playing, he may be inthe conversation.
Um, you know, he's I think he'sfourth right now in rookie
defenseman scoring.
And, you know, again, uh justwhy a couple things that I've
noticed that really have been, Ithink, exciting for me is that

(11:04):
he's communicating a lot morenow.
If you watch him, he seems likehe's talking to people all the
time.
I don't, I'm not sure what he'ssaying to them, but it seems
like he's having conversationswith them and he's talking on
the bench, he's talking, youknow, on the ice, he's doing all
kinds of stuff.
And the other thing that Ireally like about him is when
they score a goal and he's outthere, he is excited.

(11:25):
Man, he's excited.
You notice he runs right up tothe group like crazy, right?
I mean, I love that.
And you know, it it's it justhis his joy for the game.
You can just see it.
He loves the game, he lovesplaying the game, and he's I
think the road trip was a greatthing for him, too.
Uh you know, where they get achance to get away for a couple

(11:46):
of weeks, bond together.
You know, he starts to becomeone of the one of the guys,
right?
And and and you can see it.
He's starting to really feel andobviously getting the playing
time he's getting.
And and you know, uh TimGleason, uh, you know he trusts
him.
He puts him out with a minuteleft, two minutes left, he puts
him on the PK, he puts him outthere against the top lines.

(12:08):
He doesn't care.
Get over the bars, you know,like like let's go.
So, you know, I'm thrilled.
We're all excited.
Um, I think you know, the earlyconcerns that folks had, you
know, is he going to be theplayer we thought he was?
I I think the answer is startingto come pretty clear.
He's gonna be that and maybemore.

(12:29):
So lots of excitement with AlexNikeshin.
Now, talking about folks comingin from nowhere, literally, and
uh and getting it done.
How about Joel Nistro?
Um, this guy, again, coming overfrom Sweden, um, coming to play
with Chicago, he's been playingover there in the professional
league for about five years now.

(12:50):
So he's a little older.
He's 23.
So he's been playing with menlike Nikitian.
He comes in, he's given thekeys, and away he goes.
Rachel, what have you seen withJoel Nistro?

SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
I have absolutely loved his game.
He has done very well, except alot better than I had
anticipated, because uh his gamehas been just kind of quiet, and
that's what you want from adefense though, because in my
opinion.
Because uh you know, wheneverwhenever you have uh rookies and

(13:23):
stuff and people playing theirfirst games in the NHL, usually
it's a little more noisy, youknow, they're trying to force
things, they're trying to makethat big first impression, but
he he does not have to impressanyone because he's already
impressed everyone despite beingwho he is and going out there
and getting it done.
I mean, he is dug in and I'veloved watching it.

SPEAKER_01 (13:43):
And Katie, what have you seen with UL?

SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
I definitely agree with Rachel.
He's earned the trust, even whenum Lego was in the lineup.
It was Nestrom who was slottedhigher and given more minutes.
So you can see that uh thecoaching staff really trusts
him.
And whatever time he um spentwith Chicago before he got
called up obviously helpedbecause they run the same

(14:10):
systems there, and so it wasjust translating it to a little
bit faster game, but not a wholelot of new concepts or new
expectations as far as that wasconcerned.
And um that that I think hasmade a a huge de difference um
in the game.
And he's he's really helped tokind of stem the stem the

(14:32):
bleeding, so to speak, when itcomes to all of the injuries and
and given the the canes a goodoption of someone to help fill
in behind that the top Dpairing, whatever that top D
pairing happens to be thatnight.

SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Yeah, for sure.
And I mean there have been somegames and we've had a number of
games it seems where we have endup with five defensemen and
players like uh Nestrom and ofcourse Nikishan have been
logging some big, big minutes.
Hey, Aaron, when you look at aguy like Nstrom, and and I
particularly am interested inthis, is when you see him
playing, why do you think he'sable to come in and be as

(15:06):
effective as he is?

SPEAKER_03 (15:09):
To me, and I I'm not the most uh versed in in what
you watch for in defenseman, um,but to me, what I noticed, in
fact, I just was payingattention to this uh in the last
game, his positioning is reallygood.
He seems to know where to be andwhere to get how to get there.
Um his vision for the developingplays and getting himself, you

(15:31):
know, maybe this is when youpinch, maybe this is when you
fall back.
I think he's had like one badpinch since he's been here, and
that was, you know, just anunfortunate breakdown in
communications.
But other than that, you know,if if he's pinching, it's
usually very solid because heknows the coverage is back
there.
And if he's uh falling back,it's because he can tell that it
isn't.
So it just I you never seem tosee him out of place.

(15:53):
You never see to see him, seemto see him rushing back to get
into position.
So that's the thing that I foundthe most impressive so far
because that is the kind ofthing that usually in in Rod
Brindemore's system takesplayers a little time to figure
that out because of thecomplication of the man-to-man
defensive system and you knowsome of the other things that
they do that are different fromthe average NHL team.

(16:15):
We have seen many defensemen,even uh veteran defensemen, I
would say Orlov would be one ofthem, who really struggled at
the beginning to figure thatout, you know, and and and you
know, eventually they get it,but it takes time.
But for Nistrom, like you said,he's playing that system in
Chicago, so the familiarity isthere.
But to be able to do it with thepace and the and the speed
needed to execute at the NHLlevel is really impressive from

(16:39):
someone who's you know onlyplayed a handful of NHL games.
So that's what I've noticedmyself.

SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
No, and I think that's great.
And you know you know, he's avery smart player, you can tell
just the way he thinks the game.
And I mean, a couple of thingsthat really stood out to me is
he made some plays on the PK.
Like he shot down the ice, hegot two or three times.
He did it and fired down theice.
It was amazing.
It's like he's been aroundforever.
What's he think?
Is Jacob Slavin?
So that was kind of cool.
And uh and uh and you're righton the in the offensive zone, he

(17:06):
kept the puck in and it was inplay numerous times, and he
fired the puck a lot.
Like they kept saying he's gonnaget a goal, you know, like he's
gonna get a goal.
And uh and the guy that ends upgetting, of course, is uh
Charles Alexis Lego.
And speaking of that, um I thinkLego is well.
Uh shout out to Charles AlexisLegault.

(17:27):
Um, and we all like him.
We talked a lot about we knowKatie, you really like Charles
Alexis Legaux, and rightfullyso.
He's come in and he's uh he'scertainly done well, I think.
Um so unfortunate to see him goout.
Uh and and most because it'saffecting his career.
I mean, he was in a great place.
He was going to go back toChicago, he would have been one

(17:48):
of the anchors down in Chicagoas well.
Um it's just sad that he's gonnamiss uh several months of
hockey.
So um, yeah, but he's also beenanother one of those guys that
has just been thrown in thebreach.
And in fact, I think his lastgame, he might have played 18
minutes and was, you know, heends up getting a goal and
assist than anyone else, right?
Uh so that's great stuff.

(18:09):
So yeah, uh defensive core uhrookies, I don't think you could
have written a better script.
And Rob Brindemore has said thisnumerous times in his post-game
quotes and uh and other uh othersituations where he's been
talking about them andrightfully so.
So now the other part of this uhsituation right now, as we go

(18:31):
into some of the you know thesuccess areas through this uh
through this run for the canes,uh they finally put Nikolai
Ehlers with uh uh LoganStankhoven and Jackson Blake,
right?
And I know Katie, you arelooking forward to that.
So I'm gonna hand off to say,what do you what do you see with
this line now that's got uhBlake and Stancoven and Nick

(18:54):
Ealers?

SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
Well, I think it was pretty obvious for a while
there.
The Ealers on that top line,there were just too many
distributors and not enoughfinishers.
And putting Ealers on thatsecond line means that there's
still that veteran presencethere with the young guys and
Blake and Stankhoven, butsomebody also who is going to

(19:16):
drive the play, who's gonnadistribute the puck, whose
creativity really feeds into thewheelhouse of who Stankhoven and
Blake are as players.
Um he got the loan goal in theCapitals game, and a lot of that
had to do with the playmakingthat was set up to Blake, and
Blake drove the net, and thenEhlers was there to finish it

(19:37):
off.
So it's and that's it's not likethat's the only goal that that
particular triho has umproduced.
If you look at um hockey viz andyou see the line mates Ehlers
has, there's a very distinctdelineation between when he
switched from the Aho line tothe Stankoven line.
And all of a sudden, once thatswitch happens, though, whoop,

(19:59):
the production goes way up.
And so he's creating morechances.
It's not just the goals, he iscreating more chances, there's
more expected goals.
And that line's defensivenumbers have also gotten better
because they're trolling,controlling puck possession, but
because he's gaining the zone,they're creating those rush
opportunities.
If there's second chances,they're recovering the pucks in

(20:20):
the corner, they're digging themout, they're cycling them back
up high to the D and startingover again and just hitting the
opposing team with chance afterchance after chance.
And it's looked so good.
And they've only been together afew games.
And so as they get more and moreaccustomed to each other, I
think we can only expect thattheir um their reads and their

(20:44):
finishing on these sorts ofplays will improve and their
accuracy will get better as timegoes along.
So I'm really, really encouragedwith this new second line.

SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
Well, what do you think?
I mean, if we look at uh youknow the contribution of Nick
Ehlers, um I mean, struggle toget anything going, all of a
sudden it seems like it's easyfor them.
Aaron?

SPEAKER_03 (21:10):
Well, there again, you could just have the usual uh
situation where you know playerstake some time to to get
comfortable playing the system,playing, oh, you know,
especially when you look atsomeone who has played his
entire career in one city, itdoes take time to just you know
figure out how things are andand just all those little things
that add up, you know, even justin the locker room and and the

(21:34):
the game day processes,everything's just a little bit
different.
So I think that you know,expecting him to come out and
you know immediately make animpact was maybe a little bit
unrealistic for fans, you know,to to be thinking that that was
going to be the case.
But again, like Katie said, Ithink that also um when you look
at Ealers, he's a player who hastypically not played on the top

(21:55):
line.
Right.
And that can be a that can be alot of pressure, you know, to to
start making things happen andand to start, you know.
I think that the people feelingthat pressure were probably Aho
and Jarvis because we saw themtrying again and again and again
to set Ealers up for thatall-important first goal, and

(22:15):
that was just not happening.
And the more they tried to forceit, the less it was gonna
happen.
So honestly, seeing him umsucceeding so well with
Stankovin and Blake, I think alot of it has to do with what
Katie said about the fit justbeing there for those three.
Um, but I wouldn't rule out ifthere's line scrambling, as we
know with Rod Brindamore, therewill be, you know, it's not he

(22:37):
that this is not a set it andforget it kind of situation.
We know that there will be moreTwitter line controversies as
the season goes on.
But if he was to go back up tothe top line and play beside
Aho, I think that just being ascomfortable as he is now in the
system and with the line he'son, that's only gonna help.
So, I mean, I would like to seehim stay on that second line for

(23:00):
as long as as possible.
I think they're they're doing agreat job, and I think that
that's something the Keynesreally need because especially
that five on five offense hasbeen hard to come by.
And right now with the powerplay, and we're gonna get to
that in the in a minute, butwith the power play being in
such a dry spell, you have tohave production at five on five.
And and when the top line isn'table to get it done, you don't
want that to be the case of,well, you know, then the game's

(23:22):
over because we we don't haveanything coming from the ahoe
line.
So you never want to be in thatsituation with your top line.
So I like Ealer's on the secondline.
I hope he gets to stay there forat least a good stretch of
games.

SPEAKER_01 (23:35):
Well, you know, you it you made an interesting
comment.
Remember last year when MikoRantan came, uh, we had a very
similar situation.
They were trying to set up Miko,and the line was not effective,
uh, particularly Aho.
So I think you know, you've hityou hit a point where you know
they bring in these uh prizeplayers and all of a sudden

(23:55):
things kind of go south on them.
And, you know, coincidentally,of course, uh, and we'll talk
about in a minute, is that AndreSvechnikov has really been
playing very, very well.
So it kind of helps the wholesystem of putting uh you know
Ealers back on that second linequite a bit.
Now, just to wrap up the secondline, um, hey Rachel, what are
you thinking about with JacksonBlake these days?

SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Oh he's been incredible, and it's like he he
he was great last season, andthis season he's even better.
He's more uh responsible withthe hook, and he has more guts
with the hook, too.
He's really shooting a lot, he'she's getting he's getting a lot
of really good chances and somegood goals as we've seen.

(24:39):
Uh really good fantastic, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Well, you know, Jackson Blake, uh one thing I've
noticed he is quicker, in myview.
You notice he's going down theice incredibly fast.
Like it it's incredible.
And of course, he's got thisthing where he's got a magnet
with a puck.
Like he just hangs on to it.
Um I am surprised that he's kindof playing as well as he is.

(25:07):
I didn't expect him to be kindof as significant, uh, you know,
because last year he was on thefourth line for a while, he was
kind of moving around, he heplayed well for a while, and
then, you know, kind of typicalfirst year, I guess.
But boy, he's he looks like adifferent player to me.
Um like he's kind of frighteningwhen he gets on the ice.

(25:27):
And this is exciting for theCanes.
And I think, again, the Caneshave been trying so hard to come
up with a second line that candeliver offense.
You know, we've talked a lotabout the concerns with you know
putting all the pressure onAho's line.
And, you know, we see Aho, he'she's you know, he's a guy that
uh is being asked to do so much.

(25:49):
And you know, he fits better ina 1B than a 1A.
We've talked about that, buthe's being asked to do 1A and
more.
So, you know, if you can get asecond line that can take some
of that pressure off, it'sgreat.
Now, the other member of thatline has been uh kind of a fun
guy.
And I know uh I know Rachel, youhad something that you were
probably looking at with hislittle scuffle that he got into

(26:09):
and uh and uh some battles thatuh Stancoven got into.
What are you seeing withStancoven?
Rachel, what are you seeing withhim as well?

SPEAKER_02 (26:19):
He's been incredible as well.
Um, last season when we got him,he was able to basically fit in
in no time, and he's continuedjust to kind of grow.
And I've loved how he's playedas a centerman.
Uh he was great as a winger, butI think that him as a centerman
it really kind of fits him, it'swhere he's at.

(26:40):
And um yeah, he he's he's he'sgot the guts uh to handle a
centerman is because he's onlyfive foot eight, you know.
He's he's pretty small, but thatthat doesn't seem to bother him
a bit.
So he's good.
Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_01 (26:58):
Aaron, what are you thinking about with uh
Stancovern?

SPEAKER_03 (27:02):
Oh I'm pretty much agreeing with what uh with what
Rachel just said there.
Um I think that it was fun uhwatching him do uh that little
uh fight last night to drop thegloves.
He said he really enjoyed it,you know.
Um you want to see that kind ofspirit.
Um, but I know that behind thescenes they're telling him we
loved that, don't ever do itagain.
Because we've had enoughinjuries, and there are guys

(27:24):
that, you know, um, I mean, I II think it was uh last night
that Max Domey went up againstuh uh Nikita Zodorov, which was
not a wise decision by anymeans.
So we don't want him to become,you know, the scrappy guy that's
out there trying to fighteverybody.
But in under the circumstances,it was a great thing to see.
So I like that.

(27:45):
Um I I like his um I like howintelligent he is with the puck.
I like that he's um good atfiguring out which of his line
mates are in good position.
Um, but he's also not at allhesitant to shoot.
And that's something that Ithink um we need from all of our
centers, honestly, because um wewell, maybe at least some of

(28:07):
them.
I mean, I I like when JordanStahl shoots a puck.
I just wish it would happen whenhe can actually get it into the
net.
But but I mean, in general,though, our centers are not the
guys who too, even Jordan Stahl,they're not the guys who take
the first shot, even if they'reopen.
They're they're they're they'resit standing in front of the net
with the puck and they're like,okay, who's open?
I mean, who can I get it to, youknow, instead of having that
shoot first mentality.
So I like that Logan Stankovenhas that shoot first mentality.

(28:31):
He will certainly give the puckto Blake.
He will certainly give the puckto Ehlers.
He will even drop it back for apinching defenseman if that's
the right play.
But if if he's got it and he'sgot a lane, he's gonna shoot it.
And it doesn't matter how farback he is because again, his
size does not impede that in anyway, shape, or form.
So that's been nice to see.
I would like that to rub off onparticularly on Aho.

(28:51):
I would really like umSankhoven's willingness to shoot
the puck to rub off on SebastianAho, and you know, maybe kind of
get that to the point where Ahois also the scoring threat that
we know he can be, because youknow, certainly he can be.

SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
Well, yeah, exactly.
And you know, we look at at hisdevelopment um for sure, and
there are some things that thatyou know Logan's gonna have to
work on.
Katie, are you seeing anythinguh that that you think he might
need to work on?

SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
Oh, perhaps just this little issue of face-offs.
Yeah.
Um Katie is uh I don't thinkstruggling even properly defines
what's going on with theface-offs.
It's been a huge learning curvefor him, and his face-off
production is very, very lowright now.

(29:42):
Um, I think a game or two agothere was even an entire first
period when he went O for on theface-offs.
So um he he continues to workwith Brindamore, though.
We've seen uh various clips ofBrindamore working with him and
tutoring him and uh giving himsome pointers as far as that's
concerned.
So I think, you know, it mightnot come in the way that we're

(30:04):
used to with the Kanes, as faras that is concerned, but
perhaps it will improve enoughthat it will allow all of the
other good parts of his game toshow up.
The other thing that has beenreally good with this line, and
I would say this is particularlybecause of Blake, is even if
Stankoven doesn't win the faceoff, if he can just not lose it

(30:27):
clean, Blake has been taught howto jump into.
the area so even if it's lost orit's a bit it's still in the
skates or whatever, he's the onethat often comes out with it.
And that will really help thesituation with it with that
particular line as far as eithergaining or regaining control of

(30:47):
the puck and being able to setup and create all of the
opportunities that they um thatthey have been creating.
So I there's there's room forimprovement there, but I think
it will come.
It'll just be a lot slower thanwe're used to seeing on a Rod
Brindamore team.

SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Yeah and you know there's there's so much to be
excited about with that line uhbecause you know we see Jackson
Blake taking the next step.
He's starting to look like areal serious player.
We've got Nikolai Ehlers is nowfeeling comfortable and we heard
a lot about that this week hehad to go to three grocery
stores I guess to get thewhatever he wanted to to cook

(31:24):
dinner.
So that was kind of fun when hewas talking about living in the
Raleigh area.
A little bit different thanWinnipeg I suppose uh for
certain it's going to be a lotwarmer this winter so he's going
to enjoy that but he's going toreally feel comfortable as well.
And I think you know it's backto we had talked a lot about you
know this you know getting to anew team and becoming a part of

(31:45):
it and feeling comfortable andsome of the challenges and we
talked a lot about that with uhAlexander Nikishan and you know
we didn't really think muchabout it with Nick Ehlers but
it's the case.
As you say he was in uh Winnipegfor 11 years I think and and all
of a sudden here he is sittingin Raleigh with a bunch of folks
he doesn't know and uh going toa different you know dressing
room and trying to find thegrocery store.

(32:06):
I mean it's funny when you thinkabout it but it's true.
He's trying to get uh get hiscadence with all of this stuff.
So he's starting to feelcomfortable you can see the
difference and uh and he's beenstarting to pot the goals.

SPEAKER_03 (32:17):
I think he's got uh he's got three goals in his last
uh what five games I guess sohe's really starting to come
along um okay so great stuff onthat line what are we seeing
with the other lines we've gotuh of course uh Jordan Stahl's
line is always the Jordan Stahlline uh and what do we see maybe
with uh Sebastian Alho and hiscrew any quick comments on those

(32:38):
guys Aaron you want to kick itoff sure um I think that it's
great to see uh Carrier backwith uh Stahl and Martinook I
think that that's an importantdevelopment for that line it's
it's it always feels like someof the worst line scrambling
happens when somebody can't playon Stahl's line who is supposed
to be playing on Stahl's linebecause who do you put in?

(32:58):
You know that that line alwaysworks so well as a unit that you
don't want to you know you justthrow up any winger that you
have on on hand and put them upthere.
So um having carry A back's beenreally important.
They have had some strugglesthese last few games I think
that um someone um mentionedthat Stahl has been a minus in
his last four so you know he isnot uh in the plus he's not been

(33:20):
in the plus column at the end ofthe game.
He's been going up he alwaysgoes up against the hardest
competition.
You can't necessarily read toomuch into that that's why that
stat is not a stat that youshould rely on for everything.
But um the way that Jordan Stahlusually plays we don't see him
stay in the minus column forlong.
So I think that we'll see thatyou know once they've gotten
just even just this couple ofdays break that they've had

(33:43):
they're having right now becauseit's been a lot of games um very
close together and a lot ofthose little short travel trips
where you know you're on a planeyou play you come back I mean
it's it's not any any betterthan a long road trip you know
um other than getting to sleepin your own bed.
So hopefully that will will uhwill improve and then with the
with ahoe and um the trio of SetAho and Jarvis um I think we all

(34:07):
like Spetch up there.
He's been playing really well Ithink Aho and needs to get a
little bit of more so a littlebit more going.
We we've talked about that withhim I think in general.
But against the Capitals thatline really struggled and and
they were at the bottom of thehockey stat card chart and and

(34:28):
everything else you know so itwasn't just the eye test it was
everything.
So um but although interestinglyenough the possession numbers
for the Kings against the Capswere ridiculously high.
So they they had possession ofthe puck more often than they
didn't except in the firstperiod.
So it's just one of those games.
But you look at that and you sayagain fatigue could very well be

(34:48):
a factor given how many minutesthat line plays how many games
they've had in a row you knowover a short stretch of time.
So I I I think that we'll seethat line bounce back pretty
quickly.

SPEAKER_01 (34:59):
Yeah I mean that's one of the challenges this year
is this this schedule is socondensed and at certain points
that like they just played fourand six days.
I mean it's no wonder they youknow were a little bit tired
playing up against the Cats lastnight.
I've been concerned with Jordansimply because we've talked
about this a lot you know ashe's aging these uh these tough
schedules are going to weigh onhim and uh and so you know not

(35:24):
surprising that he he's notfiring in all cylinders all the
time but hopefully as you saywith an extra day of rest he
might be uh might be ready to goagain.
Um any thoughts on this Katie?

SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
Um I do think that uh it was good to move Spetch
back up to the top line.
He spent some time for a whilethere down on the fourth line
and the third line and he isjust the type of player the way
that he processes the game andoperates in the game whether
he's g going well or not hereally struggles to play kind of
that grinder mentality of hockeyhe is a creative force in a big

(36:01):
body and he needs to be playingwith other um with other
linemates that bring that out inhim they don't he doesn't need
to be with Stahl and Martinookteaching him how to be a a
grinder someone who fights forpucks in the corner he knows how
to go after pucks in the cornerbut he needs to play with other

(36:22):
guys that can finish theopportunities that he's creating
and he has been creating them.
There have been a couple ofassists that he has had that
have just been beautiful um yeahand you know and like mentioned
before with Nikishan that heseems to find that particular
combo uh really uh reallyelectric as well the the two of

(36:45):
them have fed off of each otherso if you could have that going
he I think it's gonna be veryimportant for Brenda Moore not
to take him off of that topline.
He needs to be up there withthat talent and those those
three know each other they haveplayed with each other over
multiple seasons together offand on here and there and if

(37:07):
he's going it will really helpthe rest of the line to get
going and I think it'll help Ahoperhaps just kind of not grip
that stick quite so tight andlet him find his scoring touch
once more.
He doesn't need to feel thepressure of trying to set up
ELES.
He's got Svetch there he knowswhat Svetch is about he's got
Jarvey there he knows whatJarve's about and they can

(37:28):
really start getting into agroove together and being more
successful as a top line becausethey need to they need to
produce more they need toproduce more as as the top line
they it's it's great to havebalance scoring but the top guys
need to be the ones leading theway there not bringing up the um

(37:49):
bringing up the end there.

SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
Well and and you're right and and I mean one thing
about Svetch uh you know againstthe Cavs he he had several great
opportunities like he wasgetting in he had some breaks
where he got in and got clearshots he was firing the puck
hard you know Logan uh Thompsonwas tremendous in goal and uh
and it was hard to beat him soyou know they did have some
chances and I thought Svetchplayed a particularly good game.

(38:13):
So he's definitely continuingwith his confidence and I've
said this a number of times iswhen he's when he's feeling good
about himself he can play.

SPEAKER_02 (38:21):
And he showed this last year in the playoffs but he
gets in this uh sometimes inthese funks where he's kind of
all concerned about what he'sdoing and and he loses his
confidence and when he's playinga heavy game as we know that
makes a big difference andspeaking of that a guy that's
been playing a heavy game latelyis I think has been uh Yesperi
Kokaniami and uh so with thatRachel what are you thinking

(38:44):
about the the other line that wehave with Kokaniami Robinson and
of course Taylor Hall electricthey have been so good for a
fourth line I mean when whenEric Robinson came back yeah I
was like you know let's seehopefully hopefully they'll be
able to pick back up because Iremember they was really good

(39:05):
earlier on before he was injuredand when he came back I mean
they're they're awesome Ihaven't seen I don't I don't
have any graps at all about thatthat fourth line since he's come
back.

SPEAKER_01 (39:18):
Well the interesting thing is uh you know we talk
about Aho's line has to help outwith the scoring if we can get
some offense out of that fourthline and they were effective at
the start of the year uh beforeinjuries kind of derailed them
and they started moving TaylorHall to the top line and some
other places um I think I thinkthere's some real potential

(39:40):
there.
And Aaron what are you thinkingabout with Kokaniami?

SPEAKER_03 (39:43):
I know he you're all over uh KK what are you thinking
about with Kokaniami Well Ithink that you know um I've
liked the these last few games Ithink once he got um moved back
to center you know it's it'salways such a strange thing to
see him playing wing because hedoes not play the the the
position as well.
And that's pretty unusual for aforward usually every forward

(40:06):
out there can play wing and alot of them just played center
because they were the best guyon their team in junior you know
so there's a lot of guys thatget that come into the league
listed as a center and theyshould never go anywhere near
the center of the ice and Ithink you know we can use Mark
Natchez as an example.
We all he's our famous examplebecause you know he played
center plant quite a bit in inthe in his junior years.

(40:28):
He even played a little bit ofit in the um in Charlotte in the
when when that was the affiliateback then.
But uh but yeah Natchez is not anatural center um in that in the
sense of being able to play itbetter than he plays wing and uh
you know so so for Kokanami it'skind of the opposite you don't
want him at wing he doesn't playas well at wing uh it was
necessary because of theinjuries I think it's necessary

(40:50):
because uh Jankowski definitelyplays um you know a solid game
at wing and and is probably alsonot as effective at center at um
I mean on on the wing rather heplays effective at center um so
you've got two guys both of whomcan play center you're gonna put
the one who doesn't play as manyNHL games there so that he's not
struggling to figure out wherehe needs to be because I don't
think Jankowski's played wingvery much with the canes maybe

(41:11):
once or twice you know so it'sbut but having KK back at center
I think that you see thephysicality is there.
I was noticing um he's up to 23hits on the season right now.
He's actually um uh I think thatof the forwards it's just uh I
think it's just Spet Stall andMartinok maybe there's just like

(41:33):
three forwards that are ahead ofhim with his ice time that's
pretty good.
So that's I know that's whatthey want out of him.

SPEAKER_01 (41:38):
So that's that's uh a good to sign to see yeah and
and I think the other thing ishe's been really firing the puck
um you know like he's feelingmuch more confident like he's
out there looking for the puckand he wants to shoot it.
So okay is that uh is thatKokanami or who's uh who's in
his body right now um but yeahhe I think he's playing well and

(42:00):
you know Robinson is the glue uhwe talked a lot about Oracle
before um and you know he's theglue and the other thing I
noticed I don't know if you sawthis Katie last night but I
thought Taylor Hall was flyingyeah he he had he has had his
moments I still struggle withhis game I feel like he'll have

(42:22):
brilliant flashes but then thereare other times I just wonder
what in the world he wasthinking in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 (42:28):
But a lot of those questionable decisions shall we
say were when he was playingabove his above his head.
I don't think you know he wasmeant to be on the first line or
on the second line I think he umI think he is slotted best at
the fourth line and and his hishis pride might not like to

(42:50):
think that after his history butthe the Kanes have a an elite
fourth line.
There are many teams in theNational Hockey League that
would kill to have a fourth linethat strong um and he his skill
set fits what KK and Robinsonalso bring and so and I think he

(43:12):
he also plays freer he doesn'thave to have those defensive
responsibilities that the restof the line do in the pressure
because that the matchups areeasier.
It's not not that he gets tojust take the night off but the
likelihood of being burned forwhatever choices he's making is
a lot lower.
And so I'm you know I hope theycan get their group back.
You know Robinson's injuryreally kind of threw a big

(43:33):
wrench in the success they werehaving because before that
happened that that line was justphenomenal and Hall was a big
part of it.
And he's in a lot of ways he'sthe finishing touch.
You know he he's he's the onecreating um though those
opportunities opportunities andso and he brings out the best in

(43:56):
in KK and um in Robinson aswell.
So I like I said I hope they getto stay together for a while and
rediscover that magic they hadat the beginning of the season
because that's a big weapon forthe Kanes being able to roll
four lines when most teams canonly successfully or expect
success out of two or three.

SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
Yeah and and and again uh they can play more
minutes they're capable of it.
Don't forget uh last year ofcourse uh Kokaniami and Robinson
were on that line with Natchezso they were playing second line
minutes last year and did welluh and of course Taylor Hall he
can play extra minutes as wellso I think there I think there's
definitely an opportunity forthem uh I for me they could be

(44:42):
one of the better fourth linesin the league and the matchups
they're gonna get are going tobe really favorable.
You know it's interesting lastnight I ended up watching part
of the game on the uh Washingtonbroadcast because uh ESPN had a
bit of a problem for me with theuh Kings broadcast so I ended up
watching part of the Washingtonone it was fine but you know

(45:03):
what they were raving about EricRobinson um they said man this
guy this guy he's big he's youknow he's he's a big man he can
skate like the wind uh he he'sreally good out there with the
puck um and this guy he's gotfour goals in nine games he's
gonna be he's a handful you knowlike you know and I thought wow
that's uh that's good words forEric and sometimes I think we

(45:25):
take him for granted but he'she's growing with the canes for
sure and you know when theydecided to re-up him for another
four years I think it wasobvious what they were thinking
with him.
So that's good stuff.
Okay so a lot of good thingshappening some not so good as we
say for progress uh and I guesswhen you take a look at the

(45:47):
current uh power play numbers inthe NHL it's kind of funny to
see the canes second lastsitting in 31st place uh with a
whopping 12.5% rate and by theway the leader is up around 37 I
think right now so that justgives you an idea of the
difference in the success ofsome power plays and the

(46:09):
hurricanes and the fact thecanes have been winning without
a power play is even more kindof astounding.
Aaron, what are your thoughts onthe power play and uh where do
we go from here?

SPEAKER_03 (46:23):
Well I posted something on Twitter last night
that I said that if you come tome now and you tell me that the
biggest problem with the canespower play is execution I will
enthusiastically agree and askyou whether you think that a
firing squad or a guillotinewould be better.
Because that's because that'show bad it's gotten.

(46:45):
It's just and it's frustratingbecause you see um when they
look like they know what they'redoing even if they don't score
you see what the vision is likethe first power play last night
against the Capitals the topunit was moving well they were
getting chances I think they hadseveral shots on goal and then
it just completely collapsed.

(47:06):
They had five total power playopportunities even though one of
them ended up being kind of thathybrid four on four situation
but five total opportunities andthey were crucial especially
towards the end of the game whenall they needed to do was get
another goal to tie it or maybethen they needed to because the
caps scored again.
But you know when they were inthat position where a goal would

(47:26):
have made all the difference inthe momentum the power play just
sucks the momentum out of thegame and that's not sustainable
you know I'm going back to RogerNamore's word that he used about
things at the beginning of theseason when he said that the
injuries on the defensive coreand having to play with rookies
wasn't sustainable.
Well it it turned out betterthan it than it probably could
have, you know.

(47:46):
But it's still you still needyour defensive core back before
you know we get into the reallyserious part of the season where
everyone's jockeying for thoseuh what those playoff spots you
know so right now I look at thepower play and I think what is
it exactly what is it becausewhen you look when you look at
the stats I and I know that uhyou guys have already talked

(48:07):
about this a little bit um ththey they're they're creating
chances they don't you knowthings there's they're getting
the expected goals are there youknow to a certain extent but
it's not happening they're notfinishing so that's when I I
have to start asking is thisjust a case of the system

(48:27):
they're creating even though itgenerates chances is too much
for the players they have to beable to get that finishing do
they need to alter the system tobe more realistic about what the
players on the ice can actuallydo I don't know it's it's a
mystery to me.

(48:47):
I think that they they have todo something I I don't know if
they need a different voice inthe room we've talked about that
before too do they need adesignated power play coach not
because the things that they'retrying to do are you know
inherently bad but because itit's not getting through somehow
and the execution then isn'tthere.

(49:08):
No I don't know what you canthink about that.

SPEAKER_01 (49:10):
No I I think you're on I think you're on the right
track Aaron.

SPEAKER_02 (49:13):
Rachel what have you seen with the power play um it's
really lack there's just notmuch laugh on it in the attack
is just it's it's a wet blanketbut um yeah uh I have noticed

(49:36):
you know they've heated up alittle bit on the power play
which which is good and they'vebeen incorporating more uh pub
movement but they need to reallyincorporate more of a net front
presence I believe in the lastgame against the Capitals it was
like I didn't notice it untilright there at the end with the
six on four situation where theyeven had someone out front.

(50:00):
So they definitely need to uhmake sure they have more more
presence to keep that that puckmoving and uh cause as much uh
chaos as possible while that canalso put holes in the defense
with uh the power playultimately you know fortune
favors the bold so yeah wellthose are good points and you

(50:22):
know it's interesting becausewe've talked about a net front
presence forever I think uh inprevious podcasts we said you
know the power play you knowthat they need two things in
terms of trying to get the puckin the net one of them is a net
front presence and second of allsomeone that can really fire the
puck.

SPEAKER_01 (50:40):
But you know there's two things that I see that I I
kind of get concerned about.
One of them is zone entries.
They had a lot of trouble in thegame against the caps
particularly and and in some ofthe other games as well they've
been struggling to get the puckin and get set up.
And that's that's a concern andto the same end uh they've been
struggling on the faceoffs.

(51:01):
Sebastian Aho has really reallystruggled on power play
face-offs and you know if youdon't get puck possession you
know if it's up in the opposingzone you got a face off up there
and you can't get puckpossession what are you doing?
You're heading back to your zoneand you're trying to come into
the zone and they haven't beeneffective at that.
So you know I think gosh it'sjust a whole series of things

(51:24):
that uh you'd like to see themdo better.
Um where does it go?
What what do you do with thisnow?

SPEAKER_00 (51:31):
Katie, what do you what would you do um I almost
would just go back to square oneand reimagine the power play and
mix it up enough that there'snot this kind of malaise that
they can sink back into.
If necessary to spark them splitup Aho and Jarvis.

(51:55):
The second power play unit isnot working.
It just is not working as muchas I like Dan Coven and Blake on
five on five I do not like withthat particular unit with
especially with the 2D men um Ithought perhaps Walker deserves
some looks on the power play butI'm I'm not sold at all I'm I'm
really not sold on Miller.

(52:16):
I don't know where to go fromthere.
Perhaps even a five forward unitwould be something different to
create some more opportunitiesand challenge the guys you know
okay here's Ajo's unit here'sJarvis's unit now let's see who
can actually produce give them aminute and go from there.

(52:37):
When it comes to the net frontthey've been putting Setch there
a lot and I think he's miscasthe is completely miscast as a
net front presence.
I know he's the biggest body outthere and that's where that
logic is coming from but I thinkthat somebody like Stenhoven or
Jarvis makes more sense.
So if you're gonna leave Aho andJarvis um together that's how

(52:59):
Stenkoven or Blake would make abetter net front presence.
They've tried Blake there alittle bit but I'd like to see
Stenhoven there.
Stenhoven's really good in thefront of the crease I know you
technically would like to havetwo centers on your two
different power play units, butif you load up PowerPlay one
with Aho and with Stenhoven onit and let Stenkoven go net
front and dig out pucks and thengive them a mandate a mandate

(53:25):
you have got to put the puck onnet jar it shoot shoot ahoot got
despair drive in and shootbecause you're going to have
Stenkoven in the front to helptake away your eyes you are
going to have your wingersdriving in from the other side
looking for rebounds so good atpuck retrievals and that

(53:50):
includes their top guys.
Give them a chance to go andretrieve some pucks if it
doesn't go in or let Stenhovenbe the one who's there to battle
and knock it in in front of thegoal.
I mean wasn't his first goalwith the canes a tip on was it
not power play that was hisfirst goal with the canes put

(54:12):
him there put Stenkoven netfront figure out power play too
and either they don't take faceoffs or they only play the last
20 seconds of the power playanyway.
You need something else you needan injection of life and we saw
Stenkhoven's willing to do itwhether it's the fight from last
night or the battles in thecorners or being net front he

(54:35):
will give the attitude and thefight and the snarl and the
energy that would pep that groupright up and he would also help
with the uh zone entries as wellinteresting thing about uh Logan
of course he was schooled by JoePavelski uh on those tips and
you know Joe was probably thebest so he's very good in front

(54:56):
of the net as you say he lovesto get in front of the net he's
gonna pick up rebounds he'sgonna deflect it whatever the
case is and I agree with you heshould be on that top line.

SPEAKER_01 (55:04):
Now we could put Kokani at center on the number
two unit.
That's fine.
He can go up there I mean theythey don't he's sitting on the
sidelines right now put him inhe's he's playing with some
energy and uh he'd probablyenjoy getting back in the power
play.
So I think you've got I thinkyou're on to something I really
believe they've got to make somechanges in the personnel.
I really do.
Uh and whether it's Stankhovencoming up or Blake or somebody

(55:27):
else they've got to do somethingto shake this group up because
they're just not getting itdone.
And you know you can't sustain ayou know a winning streak or any
kind of success rate without youknow without your special teams
and uh and in particular yourpower plate.
You know we've seen this beforeright where they've really
struggled.
They've never been down at 12and a half but we've gone

(55:47):
through discussions wherethey've really been a world of
hurt and you know they've got tofigure it out.
And it could come back to assimple as what you said too
Aaron maybe they need a powerplate coach somebody that comes
in and all he does is is workthe power play and his success
on the team is determined by howwell they do because it's just
not working that well in anycase speaking about special

(56:09):
teams just for a couple ofminutes on this um canes are not
where they normally are on thePK as well um you know they're
usually one or two right therethey've been up there forever uh
this year they're sitting atnumber 10 uh 81.8 percent that's
not really they're giving uppower play goals I mean last

(56:31):
night they gave up one that wascritical to the game uh you know
they're still in the game powerplay goal happens they're done
and and this is unusual and itmight come back to something as
simple as what we were talkingabout before you know some of
these some of these extended uhyou know tight situations where
they're playing many games in ashort period of time is wearing

(56:53):
out the one of their top penaltykillers and that would be Jordan
Stahl.
And so you know and they don'thave their best penalty killer
outside of the goalie and that'sJacob Slavin.
So you know I think for me I'mnot as concerned about the PK I
think they'll get it turnedaround and write the ship.
I mean they've been trying theyone of the goals last night of

(57:13):
course they had Alex McKishamwith uh Uel Nistro him out
there.
You know if you've got if you'vegot like Jalen Chatfield and uh
and Jacob Slavin it's adifferent uh different ball of
wax so um anybody any thoughtson the on the PK that you just
want to throw in before we moveon to the next point we're okay

(57:34):
okay we're okay PK is fine okayso um now uh you know we looked
at all this kind of stuff andthe canes continue to win
despite bad power play less thanwhat they would normally have in
the PK some challenges with someof the lines they keep winning
and the question is how are theydoing it?

(57:59):
What's actually working forthem?

SPEAKER_03 (58:01):
Aaron Well um I'm gonna jump on uh one little
thing that I found reallyinteresting is that you know
we've we've noticed that they'rethat they're doing they're
getting some more rush offensethan they have been in the past
and and that's something that umI think that it's been a vision
of Eric Tolsky's for a long timenot so much just the rush
offense itself that's a that's anice um sort of subset of what

(58:24):
they're going for.
But back in 2013 um Eric Tolskipresented a research paper at
the MIT Sloan Sports Analyticsconference about the difference
in in uh generating offensivechances between the typical dump
and chase method and controlledzone entries and the conclusion
I mean if this paper is outthere on the internet I will

(58:45):
warn you that it is extremelydense and I was not able to
understand probably a third ofit.
But but but but the conclusionwas that carrying the puck
through the neutral zone andinto the offensive zone creates
better offensive chances andmore sustainable offense than
the typical dump and chasemethod that teams had used you

(59:09):
know a lot prior to that andcontinue to use even now and the
Keynes are one of those teamsthat continues to do a lot of
dump and chase.
It takes a lot of skill to getthat puck through the neutral
zone.
It takes a lot of it takes veryfast skating it takes you know
extremely good puck control ittakes good decision making about
passing the puck to otherplayers that are along there
with you to get it in and tomake those zone entries happen.

(59:31):
You know we we just talked abouthow the Canes are struggling
with that a little bit on the uhum on the power play.
But at five on five some of thelines and I would here again I
would point to the Stancovenline on this some of the lines
are getting to be quite good atgetting into the zone with
possession and not losing thepuck.
I think that that's where you goback to um what they wanted from

(59:53):
a player like Martin Natchez wasthey wanted him to be able to do
that.
And Katie, I know you know thathe does that in in Colorado he
can carry the puck through asmany zones as you want him to
carry it through.
The difference is that when hegets into the zone there have to
be other players with him tosupport him on that puck and
there was never anyone on theKeynes who could match that
speed of his and just you knowbe right there with him.

(01:00:16):
With Stancoven you've got a lotof speed but it's it's more it's
more of a manageable level ofspeed for the other players they
can he can get the puck to andthrough the neutral zone passing
back and forth with Blake I'veseen that um and now with Ealers
who's also extremely fast thatline is going to Be doing a
really good job of entering theoffensive zone with full control
of the puck.

(01:00:36):
And that does make a differenceinto how often they're able to
score.
So I think we're going to seemore of that.
And I think that is one of thethings that's been working for
them because we've seen it onsome of the other goals.
And there, again, you can pointto when you're talking about the
fourth line, you can point toEric Robinson.
He's extremely good at gettinginto the zone with possession of
the puck because, again, he'squite fast.

(01:00:57):
So all of that is, I think, whatthey're working towards.
And it's exciting to see becausewe've seen the dump and chase
forever, the four check andgrind.
We know it works for them.
We know it works for Florida.
The interesting thing is Floridais a master of both.
If you watch the how the FloridaPanthers play, they are
extremely good at dumping thepuck in and regaining possession

(01:01:20):
of it.
But they're also extremely goodat those controlled zone
entries, getting the puck deep,carrying it in at five on five.
And that's how they manage toget as much offense as they do.
So this is exciting to see.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:34):
Well, and Mike Kelly, who is the FanDuel's uh
analytics guru, who's been onsome of the broadcasts, has been
really hyping the point that theCanes scoring off the rush uh is
near the top of the league.
I think at one point they mighthave had the top, uh, which is
really something.
And you know what?
I think I think a lot of thatcomes back to what you're saying
too, Aaron.
If you think about uh Blake, uhStancoven, and of course Nikolai

(01:01:59):
Ehlers on that line now, allthree of them can get the puck
into the zone quickly.
And you know, they seem to befinding a way.
And sometimes the D guys aregoing up with them.
I've seen Walker up many timesand Nikatian and so on.
Um, so it's it's really workingfor them, and I think you've hit
something very, very well.
Um Rachel, anything else thatyou've seen that you kind of put
your finger on to say, boy, thisis this is why they're winning.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:24):
Goal tending.
All three of them have beenincredible.
I have loved Bussies game.
I was kind of I was a littleskeptical when he first came in.
You know, first NHL game for agoalie, but he did incredible in
the AHL.
He was one of the top uh goaliesin the AHL.

(01:02:44):
And that has carried over intothe NHL.
He I've seen him make somereally incredible saves.
Uh and then aside from just him,you know, Pierre Kocheco missed
what the first in-game or so.
And he came in with a shutdownin Madison Square Garden.

(01:03:05):
That's pretty big.
And you know, Daddy Freddie.
You know, wish him the best onuh an injury from the Capitals
game that didn't really look toogreat, hopefully just uh
precautionary.
But um yeah, goaltendings hasbeen making so much of a

(01:03:29):
difference, and I love to seeit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:33):
I think the Cades are in a good situation to have
three goalies that they canroll.
Uh there's always a concern withFred, uh, for sure.
Uh I thought he played atremendous game last night.
He made several 10-bell saves uhthat that kind of kept them in
the game.
Uh and and frankly, uh, youknow, him that injury to him was

(01:03:54):
just kind of a fluke thing, andall of a sudden, you know, he's
going off the ice and he mighthave a concussion.
So, you know, we hope that he'suh it was just the protocol,
which I think it might havebeen.
Um I think he's probably okayand we'll come back.
But you always have to bemindful that um, you know, he's
he's a guy that's uh struggledwith injury throughout his
career.
Um and the other thing we didmention on the goaltending, of

(01:04:16):
course, is uh, you know, Fred'splan to go to uh to the Olympics
with Denmark.
So, you know, we're gonna haveto see how that plays out.
And hopefully, uh, and that's athat's gonna be, you know, he's
gonna get some heavy play uh forsure.
Uh so we'll have to see how thathow that affects him when he
comes back as well.
So anyway, um I think thegoaltending's in great shape.

(01:04:39):
And I, you know, we talked alittle bit about this uh
seriously about Brandon Busseyand what might happen to him.
It's not ideal for the Canes tokeep three goalies.
We know that, right?
So we've talked about that, andthat's for sure.
Uh, because they've got to play,they've got to keep playing.
And so we're gonna have to seehow that plays out.
Um, you know, we talked that youknow, Caden Primo is now down in

(01:05:02):
in Chicago and could be recalledin a situation if they needed
him, so they do have more depth.
Um and Amir Miptikoff isstarting to figure out uh North
American hockey as well.
So he's played here before, soit's it's good for him to kind
of get his game back in gear.
So we'll see what happens withthat.
Now, let's go on to uh somethingelse I wanted to just talk about

(01:05:23):
for a minute.
And this is kind of off the ice.
Um you know, the Keynes arealways kind of being mentioned
with anything that's going on inthe rumor mill in the in the
NHL.
And and I noticed a couple ofthings in the last couple of
days that kind of caught myattention.
I just want to bring them up andget any comments you might have.
Uh Frank Saravalli, who's out ofdaily face-off, he comes out

(01:05:46):
with you know rumors fairlyfrequently.
And he was just saying that uh,he said, I do think the canes
are one of the teams pokingaround on acquiring a center.
I don't think Cadry is one ofthe only guys that would be on
their list.
So it's interesting.
Um, you know, we we've heard allthese words about Nasim Cadry uh

(01:06:07):
not having the Canes on his listthat he would accept.
But here's Sarah Belly sayingthat maybe he is on the Keynes
list and they're interested inhim.
Uh David Peñota, who's out of uhthe fourth period, said, I look
to Utah, Carolina, Ottawa,Anaheim in a similar position to
Montreal, Aaron.
Um you don't have to strike now,but these are teams that are

(01:06:31):
looking to make a big move.
So again, uh we always hearabout the Keynes when there's a
big move, but there are a coupleof teams that are starting to
fall out.
Okay, and that's the reason Ibring it up right now.
We know that the Calgary Flames,and it looks like uh as well um
the Nashville Predators aregonna be probably selling

(01:06:52):
earlier than later.
Um do we think there's anythingthat might be a possibility
there?
Aaron?

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:03):
Well, I'm I'm pretty sure that if a center who fits
their needs becomes available,they will be all over that.
I'm not entirely sure yet if thecenters that have been listed,
you know, or mentioned are theones that they would go for.
Um just there's you know, I Iwe've talked about Cadri.
I mean, I think that they wouldprobably like to have him if

(01:07:24):
they could.
It is a long contract still.
And the biggest issue would bewhat would Calgary, you know,
what would they want?
And would he sign in uhCarolina?
Or I mean it's it's a it's abecause it's a long contract,
that's not an issue, but wouldhe want to be in Carolina?
You don't want to pick up aplayer that doesn't want to be.
Um and we might very well be onhis 13-team no trade list, which
in which case it's not evenworth talking about.

(01:07:46):
Um as far as uh Ryan O'Reilly isanother one from Nashville, I
think that you know the Keynesmight be interested there, but
again, how much would they beexpected to give up in a move
like that?
And what happens then to theplayers that are currently on
the team?
I think that one of the biggestissues would be that if you like
Logan Stankoven at center andyou like how he's developing at

(01:08:07):
center and you want him to keepplaying there, then bringing in
a veteran player, you know, youhave to decide what you're gonna
do about that, you know.
Um and and that's that that's athat's a lot of moving parts to
think about.
Now, I I could see because ofall of the injuries to the blue
line, I could see that if aslightly better than Mike Riley

(01:08:28):
defenseman was to becomeavailable and they were to, you
know, maybe move Riley to aneighth spot and have this
unknown person at seventh, thosethose are the kinds of players I
would expect them to be keepinga an early eye out for because
you want to get those playersbefore everybody else realizes
that they need them towards theend of the season when you know
that when the trades deadline ishappening.
So other than that, um thosearen't the kind of big swings I

(01:08:53):
think that the team would make.
I think if they were looking tomake a big swing, it would be,
you know, for someone who'sdefinitely going to improve the
group as it currently stands.
So we'll see what happens there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:04):
Well, you know, I think you've hit a very
interesting point.
This big swing question, right?
And you know, we talked a littlebit about this is who comes out?
Like, you know, if they if theypick up a forward or a
defenseman that is a big swingplayer, you have to believe
they're gonna jump into you knowtop four minutes or you know,
top six forward position.

(01:09:26):
Uh, and you know that uh EricTolski he likes those big
swings.
We've seen him do it in thepast.
Um, so you know it's gonna beinteresting.
Of course, the Canes are rumoredin any deal that's of any
significance, uh, you know,because of course Eric always
says he's looking for anybody oranything that laid out the team.
But, you know, you don't reallywant to change up a lot.

(01:09:47):
Like I'm not interested to loseuh, you know, Svechnikov or
Blake or you know Stankhoven orany of those guys.
Um, and you know, if you get atop six forward and we talked
about a possible winger comingin, where do they go?
Um that's a tough one.
So, you know, I'm not sure howit all works.
I think it's just fun to listento what they're saying out there

(01:10:08):
and kind of chuckle.
But uh I think the Keynes willmake some moves before the
deadline.
I really do.
I think uh I think they'll needsome areas of improvement.
And for sure, uh I don't thinkthey're the cup team yet, but
they're going the right way.
And I think we'll see some movesbefore it's done.
So it's all good.
Okay, let's uh let's wrap thingsup a little bit uh with closing

(01:10:31):
thoughts.
Um you know the Canes have gotfour, their next six on the
road.
What are we thinking about as welook forward to uh the next
couple of weeks here with thehurricanes, Katie?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:44):
I think I just want to see the Canes simplify and
play their game.
Not try to get too fancy, nottry to color outside of the box
at all.
Just stick with who they are andwhat's worked, and I think that
they will give themselves thebest chance to win that way.
Um the one the one exception tothat, perhaps again, like we

(01:11:05):
mentioned before, would be thepower play.
That might need a little bit ofa a shake up, but 31st worst,
you know, I I don't think thatthere's a whole lot that can
hurt them anymore at this point.
There's only can only go up fromthere.
So but outside of that, justsimplify, play to their
identity, play for each other,and road game, home game,

(01:11:30):
whatever, I think they'll bejust fine.
I think they'll continue pacingalongside the devils for tops in
the Metro.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:39):
Yeah, the devils.
Uh they're definitely off to agreat start.
Rachel, what are your thoughtsas we uh round it up today?

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:47):
Um basically the same thing as uh Katie said.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:53):
Okay, so you're supporting Katie, and that's
great.
That's great.
Aaron?

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:01):
Well, I think I'm gonna give credit to uh
something Katie said in anearlier uh podcast is that we
want them to win the games theyshould win.
And I think that that is the,you know, I mean, you can
forgive a loss against theCapitals at the end of a tough
schedule because that's alwaysbeen a difficult team for them
to beat anyway.
Even though they have beenstruggling this year, that
doesn't make them any lessphysical, and they're always

(01:12:23):
going to be that big physicalteam.
So you can kind of look at thatand say it's a one-off, it
doesn't matter.
But I don't want to see themlosing games that they should
easily win.
I mean, they've got, I think thenext two are what, the Canucks
and the Oilers, is that right?
Um they should they should winboth of those games.
You know, neither of those teamsis doing very well right now.
They there should not be anyquestion um that that you know I

(01:12:46):
know that McDavid is going to dohis utmost to get some points on
the board because he can neverget past Jacob Slavin.
So unless Slavin suddenly showsup again this in these next two
games, um, I think there will bea lot of that kind of thing
going on.
So they're gonna need to limitthat.
But as far as the rest of themgo, you know, you look at the
teams they're they're facing upagainst, and and you know,
there's at least three of thoseteams they should win those

(01:13:07):
games.
So win the games they're they'resupposed to win, and then let
the rest take it, take care ofitself, understanding that you
may not be able to win the gamesthat are a closer fight when
you're in this situation with somany guys out with injury.
You know, do the best you can inthose games too, never give up
on a game, but get the ones thatyou should have.

(01:13:28):
Because that's I think that'salways the most frustrating
thing when they when they end uplosing what should have been an
easy game to win.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:34):
So no, I think that's I think that's exactly
right.
Um they're gonna have aback-to-back at the end of this
week, so that's uh you know,that's gonna be a bit of a
challenge for them.
Um again, uh yeah, I don't seeany wins as easy.
I think the Canes have someareas they've got to work on.
I'm not particularly excitedabout the defensive pairing of

(01:13:55):
Walker and uh Kayandre Millerright now.
I think they're a little bitoff, and uh, and I think that's
a bit of a concern.
Uh so something they've got totry to figure out how to get
that sorted out.
They've got to sort out thepower play.
They're not gonna keep winningif the power play doesn't score.
Uh they're they're gonna losegames.
And their goaltending has beenholding them in in most of these

(01:14:16):
games, and you know, they'vebeen getting some some great uh
five-on-five goals, but I thinkthat's for sure.
So unless they can solve thepower play and they can sort out
a little, you know, some tweakson the blue line, uh, and
Sebastian Aho's got to beSebastian Aho.
Um, we've talked about thismany, many times, but I'm still
waiting for him to be, you know,kind of more dominant when he's

(01:14:40):
on the ice.
Uh, I had some folks reachingout to me the other day on X
saying he's almost invisible attimes.
What's you know, what's wrongwith Aho?
Um, so you know that's againsomething we've uh we've been
talking about for a long time.
But yeah, uh four games on theroad coming up.
They've been playing great onthe road.
So hopefully uh they'll havesome great success again.

(01:15:03):
So, anyway, lots of fun asalways.
Um lots of controversy, lots ofthings to talk about with the
hurricanes, and I'm sure when weget back in a couple of weeks,
we'll have lots to talk aboutthen.
Rachel, thanks so much forjoining us.
We really appreciated it.
And we'll be following you very,very closely, of course, uh,
Queen of the Puck on your substack and and also all your good

(01:15:24):
work on X.
So uh thanks again for doingthat.
For those of you who've beenwatching or listening, of
course, we're ecstatic you spenttime with us, and we really
appreciate that.
If you like this episode, pleasepress the like button.
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(01:15:45):
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Let's go.

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