Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, after
back-to-back wins on the road,
the Carolina Hurricanes arefeeling pretty good these days.
In fact, they've moved intosecond place in the Metro and
started to put a little bit ofspace between them and the New
Jersey Devils.
But you know, the Canes havegot some challenges still and
there's some areas that theyneed to work on if they want to
(00:22):
continue to move up in thestandings.
And, of course, joining metoday to talk about what they
need to do and some of thenumbers that are suggesting
they've got some serious work todo on the offensive side, of
course, erin Manning and KatieBarber Ladies, hi there Well as.
I mentioned.
You know this is great that theCanes have gone on a bit of a
(00:46):
run.
They're 8-3-1 in their last 12games.
They're playing much, muchbetter.
They're definitely starting toshow some life in terms of the
offensive side of the game aswell, but we know that there are
some players that areunderperforming.
We also know that the stats aresuggesting that they need to do
a lot better on the offensiveside of the game, and I thought
(01:07):
I'd hand it over to you, Katie,to kick things off.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Well, if you've
listened to the podcast before,
y'all out there know that I'm astats person.
I like seeing what the numberssay and trying to translate it
into what conclusions can bedrawn about the team.
And recently my curiosity hastended in the direction of
expected goals.
Because if you ever look atthat chart, it always looks like
the canes are doing fantastic.
(01:32):
They are at the top, usuallynumber one, but if not number
one, top three in the league forexpected goals, because their
style of offense is to get thepuck in and to create
opportunities and to put puckson net.
And it's just.
It makes a whole lot of sense.
So the Canes, the Canes are upthere with creating offense.
(01:54):
And so if you look on hockeyviz, for example, on the
expected goals chart, the bottomaccess tells you how many goals
that they are creatingoffensively expected goals, and
then the vertical axis istelling you in inverted order
how many expected goals arecreated against them on defense,
and they're always in that topquadrant.
(02:15):
It's signature canes hockeythey create lots of
opportunities and they suppressthe other team's opportunities.
It looks fantastic, they're upthere with the best teams in the
league.
But then there's another chartthat you look at on HockeyBiz
and it is what they call thefinishing and goaltending chart
and it is actual goals scoredbased on expected goals.
(02:37):
Right.
And the defensive you know sidehas been fine.
They haven't been quite asstalwart as they have been in
past seasons.
But what really got myattention was the offensive
numbers, because the Canes areonly scoring about 90 goals for
every 100 expected goals, whichis one of worst.
(03:03):
Only teams like San Jose and theNew York Islanders have a worse
rate on scoring according toexpected goals, and so there is
a big finishing problem with theHurricanes that they need to
get worked out Because if theirscoring dries up they're going
(03:24):
to repeat the same old mantraonce we get to the playoffs of
great team can't score.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well for sure, and
the ability for the Canes to
out-shoot the opposition hasbeen one of their calling cards.
We haven't seen it as much thisyear.
I think recently we've seenthose shot numbers a little
closer, but definitely they loveto get a lot of shots on net.
They like to get it to the point, get shots in where they can
get rebounds and get otheropportunities in that
(03:55):
high-danger area.
But, as you say, they're notscoring on those situations.
And in particular, I mean we'velooked at folks like Ajo and
Svechnikov and they seem to bereally struggling.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, they're
definitely struggling.
I think Svechnikov is almost anegative seven on goals versus
expected goals which isincredibly high.
The next closest is Ajo, who'sa negative three point something
as far as expected goals versusgoals.
So, uh, those are two guys thatthe canes have to have working
(04:30):
and firing, and it's been apuzzle.
We we kind of expected.
Ajo does start the season slow,but we're halfway through the
season.
This is no longer a slow startand right he's still, he's still
close, if not there, at pointper game player.
But a lot of his points havecome on the power play or have
come in, like we saw againstChicago, in overtime or
(04:53):
six-on-five situations orshorthanded situations.
It's been everything exceptfive-on-five and that's the
bread and butter of the canes.
If you're not scoring five onfive, you can't expect the other
situations to necessarily bailyou out in every, in every
(05:14):
situation.
So they they really need to getthose two guys rolling, not
just with creating chances butactually finishing chances.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah well, the the
interesting thing there, and you
know, we look at this, canesrun of eight, four and one,
their last 13, and we think boythis is great, in particular,
winning three in a row and Iknow that was a big mantra of
yours, erin, as well.
Yep, they're doing it bycommittee.
You know we've talked aboutthis a lot.
Sveshnikov, ajo, natchez arethe three guys that really have
(05:48):
to drive the offense.
I mean, obviously, jarvis aswell, but those three guys are
critical and, frankly, I thinkthey've all been underperforming
, and in particular, ajo,despite the fact he scores the
overtime winner and he sets up agreat shorthanded goal the
other night, I thought for themost part he was invisible and
he has just not been thedominant player that we're used
(06:09):
to.
So what about these guys?
Natchez, svechnikov, ajo, whatare you thinking?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well, I think that
we've seen some signs of
improvement from Svechnikov.
But I did notice, you know, hewas doing extremely well on
Stahl's wing, jordan Stahl'swing.
He was really helping that lineproduce, which is something
with Stahl and Martinuk you knowtheir production can be.
They're one of those lines onKatie's charts that they are
(06:38):
always at the top of theexpected goals.
They create so many chances.
They are one of the lowerfinishing lines and honestly we
expect that from them becausethat's not a line you expect to
have a lot of high levelfinishing.
But Rod Brindamore has kind ofused both Svechnikov and
occasionally Seth Jarvis, who'son that line right now, as a
little bit of a cheat code toget some more offense out of
(07:00):
that line.
It was working great withSvechnikov.
I thought he was coming back,you know, a little bit into form
.
And then last night againstDallas he was having a real
rough game.
I thought, you know there weresome turnovers, some defensive
mistakes and some times when hereally should have taken a shot
and didn't.
And you know that's when youhear on a national broadcast,
you know it's always interestingbecause the national
broadcasters will sit there andsay, well gosh, why didn't he
(07:22):
take that shot.
You know he has an open net.
So you know, I think it's a Idon't know if it's a confidence
issue with Svechnikov or what'sgoing on there, but it you know,
I think that we need to seemore consistency and that's a,
you know, given that he's ayoung player, we forget, you
know, age-wise, range-wise he weforget, you know, age-wise,
(07:43):
range-wise he.
Kk and Jack Drury are all 24years old, so you know, they're
not the oldest players in theleague by any means and
consistency can be a strugglefor younger players.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Well, just a couple
of comments on that.
Last night was a terrible gamefor Sveshnikov.
He had two penalties which Ithought, one of them, I think in
the offensive zone and so on.
He just was not sharp at alland you know they had talked
about the fact that he had had10 hours sleep after coming in
from Chicago.
So I thought this was a greatthing and that he was all ready
to go, and I just thought he wastotally ineffective and as you
say, a number of plays andforced passes and other things
(08:25):
that I think really were notnecessarily in the best interest
of the Kings.
So I totally agree with you.
It's an interesting scenariothat's been going on with the
stall line.
I mean Jordan's got 11 pointshis last 11 games so he went on
a tear but they got Svetch goingand now they've got Jarvis
going and that's kind ofinteresting when you think of it
(08:46):
because you don't really expectthe offense to come from that
unit.
But they've been getting itdone.
And Svec going back with Ajodoesn't seem to work well.
He doesn't seem to have themagic with Sebastian, for
whatever reason.
And I felt like Jackson Blakewas much more effective than
both Ajo and Sveshnikov lastnight.
(09:07):
I thought he was making a lotof great plays on the ice, smart
moves, both defensively andoffensively, and that's kind of
a bad statement when you have tosay that the rookie guy out
there and he's a good one, buthe's out playing a couple of key
players on the Kings.
So I don't know if you saw thatas well, but I really was
disappointed with the work ofthat line and I think generally
that line has been not reallygetting it done.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
One thing that I
think is interesting with Svetch
is I think he tries to modelhis game according to the center
he's playing with, which isn'twhat the Canes need him to be.
They need him to be a powerforward.
They don't need Svetch to tryto be Aho, but when Svetch is
playing with Stahl, stahl's gameis a little bit closer to what
they need out of Svetch.
(09:54):
It's more of that tough in thecorners, grinding, that power
forward that we need.
Just Svetch has that finishingskill that Stahl doesn't have,
but when he's playing, a littlebit more to that type of Stahl
identity instead of the Ahoidentity.
I think that's part of whySvetch is more effective there.
(10:14):
And if they could just tellSvetch pretend like you're
playing with Stahl while you'replaying with Aho, then they
would start to see the resultsthat they really need out of him
, and we all know he's capableof producing.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Well, the other thing
, too, is that we look at.
I mean, one of the areas thatcould certainly help his
confidence, and Aho as well, ison the power play.
You know, we look at thisstring they've had and it's you
know again, they haven't beengetting the big contributions
from these guys and and thepower play has been a disaster.
I took a look at someinteresting numbers and I
(10:51):
thought I'd share them with youtoday, that that I don't really
tell a story on the power playand they were talking about last
night and they said, hey,they've been one for 31 and they
went over three last night, sothey're one for 34.
And I think you know, basicallythey've hardly done anything
since December.
But we look at these numbers InOctober their power play
(11:15):
percentage was 29% and weremember as they kicked off the
season, shane Gostaspare wasjust magic out there and that
power play was hitting likecrazy and of course Marty
Natchez was really takingadvantage of the power play as
well.
Into November, still 25%, andthey were right near the top of
the league.
So they were sitting close tothe top on both power play and
(11:38):
penalty kills.
So they were looking good,started to slip a little bit in
December.
We started to see that towardsthe middle and end of December
they started to struggle alittle bit.
In December we started to seethat towards the middle and end
of December they started tostruggle a little bit and of
course then Gossespierre wentout, but in December still 23.7.
These are good numbers.
These are excellent numbers butget low to January.
In 11 games 3.2%.
(12:00):
This is a massive drop.
I mean, this is not evenbelievable, that it would go
that cold.
Yeah, okay, so some of the gamesGhost wasn't there, but that's
just a terrible, terriblestatement.
And you know what are wethinking about this?
How do they fix this?
They have to get a power playgoing again.
(12:22):
And you know, remember some ofthe playoff runs they've had and
the biggest thing that seemedto be the gotcha was guess what?
Power play.
So here they are again andthey're struggling with power
play, but they're somehow ekingout these wins, sometimes great
goaltending, sometimes just teameffort.
But what are we thinking about?
The power play, erin?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I think that it was
interesting to hear the national
broadcasters commenting on itlast night, because it kind of
there was a light bulb momentthere when they were.
They were talking about youknow.
I know that we all saw thatdisastrous five on three that we
were all pulling our hair outabout.
You know that was just dreadful.
But he said why aren't theyattacking?
You know, a good power playattacks the penalty killers,
(13:04):
forces them out of position.
Doesn't just look for the openspaces between the penalty
killers, because the penaltykillers are also being very.
You know they're moving.
A good PK is going to move andforce you out of position, just
like you're going to try to doto them, and the Canes know that
, because their penalty kill isexcellent.
So they know what an excellentpenalty kill is going to turn
around and do to them.
(13:25):
You can't say that they don'thave that information.
So the light bulb for me,though, was that it goes back to
something that I've criticizedin the past with the Canes and
their power play, and it is that, just like three on three
overtime, just like five on five, just like five-on-five, the
Canes value puck possessionRight, and they value offensive
(13:48):
zone time when they're in theseother situations, whether it's
five-on-five, getting theall-zone time and having puck
possession is the most importantthing.
That's why the Jordan Stahlline is the best Canes line,
because they do that the best.
They hold on to the puck andthey cycle it and they take
shots.
The shots may not go anywhere,there may not be a lot of risk
(14:09):
involved, but they also don'tget a lot of breakaways going
the other direction.
So that's you know.
We have seen power plays fromthe Canes where the other team
gets a shorthanded chance.
You know that that is the onething they don't want to do, is
give up shorthanded chances.
Yes, but I think that leads toa very conservative approach
where they're not moving theirfeet enough and they're not
(14:31):
attacking because they don'thave the attacking mindset in
the rest of their offensive game.
And that goes back to whatKatie's talking about with
finishing.
You know, if they had a moreaggressively attacking mindset
when they have the puck in theO-zone at five on five, it
wouldn't suddenly be thisforeign concept on the penalty I
mean the power play rather thatoh hey, we have to attack.
(14:53):
And, katie, I think you're theone who pointed out that they
have that attacking mindset inexactly one facet of the game,
and that is the penalty kill.
That is the most exciting point.
That is the penalty kill.
That is the most exciting pointwhen you see the penalty killers
rushing off with the puck inthe other direction, whether
they manage to get a shorthandedgoal or not, it's the most
(15:14):
exciting thing because that'swhen they have the freedom to
have that attacking mentality.
So I thought that wasinteresting that they noticed
that on the broadcast, that theysaid they're not attacking, and
I thought, well, that'ssomething that translates across
the board because even atthree-on-three you know which
they've been very good at youknow they still value that puck
possession.
They still send Jordan Stahlout to take the faceoff.
(15:35):
They still want to start withpossession.
It's important in that scenario, it really is.
But on the power play, you'vegot two minutes, you've got and
each unit has.
You know, the first unit has 90seconds, a second unit, if
they're lucky, gets 30.
Those 90 seconds have to be afast moving game.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
It can't be well,
we're just going to hang on to
the puck until you get tired,because that doesn't work.
And to piggyback off of that,the lack of attack mentality
means that they're taking abreath in between the different
moments.
So you'll see someone pass it,they'll pause, they'll dust it
off, they'll take a breath,they'll look before they shoot,
before they pass.
And that breath that they'retaking is allowing the defense
to react and to get into thosepassing lanes or the goalie to
(16:22):
get over to make a save on ashot.
And they really need to stoptaking a breath.
And that goes right to whatAaron was saying with wanting
the puck possession, not wantingto make that mistake that leads
to the defense being able toget a clear no, it needs to go
fast, you need to start snappingit around, you need to move
(16:42):
your feet, you need to get thedefense moving their feet and
the goal not giving the goalieenough time to react, because if
the defense has time to react,the goalie has time to react.
Then you're just not going tobe able to score.
And then the other thing is andwe've talked about this in other
areas the canes have a reallyweird issue with actually
putting the puck on net.
(17:03):
It's something like almost 40%of the chances that they take
miss the net, and that's thatcan be a problem on the power
play, because if you get a hardfetch shot that misses the net,
it rims around and headsstraight out of the zone and
creates those, thoseopportunities.
Against that the team is scaredto give up.
(17:23):
So I think those are two of theother things that come from
what you're saying, aaron nothaving that attacking mentality.
They're afraid to take the hardshot because they're missing so
much and they're just, they'retaking that breath and giving
the other team an opportunity toreact to them.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I think you're right
there.
I mean that when you, when youbrought that stat up the other
day, you know I think you'reright there when you brought
that stat up the other day thatalmost 40% of their unblocked
shots missed the net, I startedthinking well, who's in charge
of the offense for the Canes?
Do they also train thestormtroopers for Star Wars?
That's not true.
These are Star Wars-levelunblocked shock attempts.
This is crazy.
(18:00):
Well, I think.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, I was just
going to say here and I think
you mentioned something aboutsome drills that were used in
Montreal to help some of theplayers get a little bit better
with their shooting.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about that?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Well, I don't have
the exact time in front of me,
but it was during a time periodwhen the Montreal Canadiens
who's my other team, of coursethey were having a similar issue
with finishing and just notgetting the goals.
You know they were gettingchances and nothing was
happening.
And on their team we'll behonest, they have some offensive
guys that you can't let thathappen.
You know you've got ColeCaulfield on that team.
(18:36):
Line A was not there yet, butyou know he's there now.
But when you have, I mean evenNick Suzuki, he's tremendously
good at getting the puck on thenet.
So if you have too many ofthose guys, go cold all at once.
It's obviously something theyhave to fix.
And the Montreal media reportsin great detail on Habs
practices and they werereporting that Martin
Saint-Louis was using someshooting drills that honestly,
(18:58):
they are the kind of things thatyou would use with peewee
players and they were laughingat that.
They were absolutely making funof that.
But then Saint-Lou say that thelast laugh because it worked
Whenever they were doing thoselittle small area drills.
I you know there were jokesabout a shooter tutor.
I do not know.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I'm just gonna say
right now, I do not know that
they actually went that far.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I don't think they
did.
But the kind of drills that theywere doing, these little small
area close up drills where they,you know, just run and take a
shot, kind of things.
That's not the kind of thing youwould normally see NHL players
do, but it got them out of theirfunk, it got them back to being
able to score at five on five,which was the problem that they
were having.
Seeing how well they're doingthis year, they're like probably
(19:41):
a year ahead of schedule interms of pushing for the
playoffs.
Whether they'll make it or not,of course, is very much up in
the air with all the competition.
But it's just incredible to meto see that those kinds of
approaches that let's take itdown, let's tear it down to the
basic level, let's find out whyso many of our shots are going
wide or missing the net, youknow, let's, let's work on those
(20:04):
little skills.
You're never too old or tooprofessional or too much of a
veteran to have the humility tosay, hey, something's not
working, let's fix it.
And I thought that was a greatapproach.
So maybe the Canes need to dosomething like that.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Well, you know it's,
going back to basics is
sometimes the way you have toget out of this.
A couple of things on the powerplay from my viewpoint.
Clearly, the confidence levelis at its lowest, and you know
they talked about this in thegame last night too, and we've
been seeing this repeatedly.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Their movement is
really not there, they're not
flying around the ice like theydid early in the season.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I mean, you remember,
they were everywhere, they were
handing the puck off, going oneside to the other, they were
going behind the net, they weredoing all kinds of things, and
we're not seeing that right now.
And I put it back to confidenceand that's kind of how power
plays work right, they get theirconfidence and all of a sudden
you know everything you shootgoes in the net.
So they've got to get thatconfidence back.
And I think you know your ideaof back to basics is probably
(21:05):
one of the things they've got todo.
They've got to take a step backand they've got to start to
look at, you know, just what arethe things they need to be
doing to try to get betteropportunities and not try to
wait for the perfect opportunity.
Get the puck on net, get somethings happening in front, you
know, get some folks blockingthe goalies' eyes, get them
there for rebounds and so on,and I think the Canes have not
(21:35):
been particularly good at thatlately.
Uh, and the pucks, you knowit's one and done right.
So again, I think they've gotto do this.
And it takes us to the next partof the discussion, because I
think this is really critical toyou know how we see the canes
going forward.
You know we saw them as a 500team for gosh a long time here,
uh, over a month, and just youknow, kind of win one, lose one,
whatever.
They just couldn't get anythinggoing.
We're seeing them win three.
Is this a harbinger of whatwe're going to see now?
(21:58):
Are the Canes ready to start tomake a move and make a run and
then, if so, where do we thinkthey're going to go in terms of
the playoffs, and why don't youkick that off, katie?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I certainly hope
they're going to go on a run and
that this is an indication ofgood things to come.
The one thing I have noticed,though, is, if you look back at
their games in January and thenleading back into December,
almost all of their games havebeen decided by one goal, and
(22:31):
the ones that haven't beendecided by one goal have been
decided by a goal plus an emptynet or a couple of goals.
I think they only have one ortwo losses in that time frame
that was by more than two goalsor two goals plus an empty net,
and the last time that the Caneswon a game by three or more
goals which did not include anempty net was the islanders game
back on december 17th.
They just are making theirlives so much harder than they
(22:54):
need to, than it needs to be,because of the type of team they
are now granted credit to them.
They're not getting blown out,so they are doing the work and
they are playing that full 60,regardless of whether they're
ahead or behind, but I think, ifthey can, just like you said,
what if the power play had justconverted it like a 12 or 15%,
(23:15):
not the 20-something that theydid?
at the beginning of the season.
They'd probably have anotherthree wins in their pocket from
January and late December.
That would have given them anextra cushion and they'd be
breathing right down theCapitals' necks for first in the
Metro or first in the East.
So it's not going to take awhole lot and if they can keep
(23:39):
steady with the defense and thegoaltending which the
goaltending actually looks likeit's trending up and then find
that extra goal, they just needthat one extra goal each game.
Start with the power play, moveto 5 on 5, expand from there.
I think they're in a really,really good spot to make a big
push and to at least enter thefour nations break feeling good
(24:00):
about themselves and then, otherthan our guys who are
participating come out of thebreak rested and raring to go to
make that stretch run to theplayoffs.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Karen, I agree with
that.
Excuse me, I think I was sayingall along that I wanted to see
them win three games in a rowand they have and we can
celebrate.
They weren't all pretty wins,but they won three games in a
row and I think that you knowthere was a tone in one of
Brad's Brendan Moore's mediaavailabilities recently where he
(24:34):
said he was, he was being alittle more balanced.
I think the wins helped that.
But he said we are doing allthis, you know, and we're not
playing our best.
You know, it's encouraging thatwe're starting to win games
when we still have room toimprove.
And I think he said thatprobably I don't remember which
(24:54):
game that was after, but it wasone of the games where Stahl had
done a good bit of the scoringand he said we need the other
two lines to get involved, theother two of the top nine,
because I know that no one'sreally pushing for the bottom
line to do anything, but theother two lines in the top nine
really need to be involved.
And then what happened afterthat is that in the last couple
(25:18):
of games we're starting to seethe Robinson, kk and HS line
come back.
And when you consider how goodthat line was for a stretch of
15 games in the beginning of theseason.
It would be incredibly good forthe Canes if that line can find
its magic again.
I know we're seeing Natchezgetting more and more
comfortable.
(25:38):
He had two assists last night.
I think he likes playing withthose two players because they
do all of that net front,battling behind the net, scoop
out the puck.
You know he doesn't have to betrying to do that to.
You know the turnover fromRobinson on the first goal last
(25:59):
night.
He forced the turnover.
And then you know, it justhelps Natchez to have somebody
who just essentially gets himthe puck, you know.
So I'd love to see that line,but I still feel like to get
above 500 hockey consistently.
We're right back into thatconversation about Sebastian Ajo
.
He does need to kick it into ahigher gear.
(26:20):
However, whether they need tokeep trying different line mates
with him, whether they need to,you know, I just I don't know
what the answer is, but it needsto happen.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Well, what do you,
what do you think I mean?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
what's going on with
him.
Before we move on to that, Ijust want to say something that
struck me with Rod's commentsabout KK last night is if he
says I want KK to play more of astraight line game like he did
last night and I was thinkingabout that because normally you
hear like a north-south game,but he said a straight line game
Natchez is such a creativeplayer, like you said, aaron
(27:00):
Robinson is the one that gets inthere, creates the turnovers,
gets the puck back out to the Dhigh or to Natchez.
If Natchez gets the puck, hehas opportunities to create.
So I think what Rod's saying bythat straight line game from KK
is go to the net, nature's willfind you, or when Robinson's
digging it out of the corner,robinson will find you go to the
(27:22):
net be more assertive.
If KK can be an assertive puckson net go to the net type
player.
It's going to elevate thethreat of that line because then
the defenders don't just haveto worry about Natchez as the
primary offensive threats.
There's other places that thatthreat can come from and spreads
(27:43):
out the defense a little bitmore.
So I just wanted to, becausewhat you were talking about with
that line getting moredangerous, I think that will be
a big key in how it goes forward, because that really struck me
with what Rod said last night.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Well, even the other
night and I had mentioned this
on X that I thought Kokuniemiplayed a solid game in Chicago
limited ice time, but he didplay a solid game.
He was noticeable and of coursehe got a goal.
But he was noticeable out thereand he was making things happen
and I saw him on the boards.
He was working hard.
You know.
He was coming out with pucksand he did this again last night
(28:16):
.
He was coming out of scrumswith the puck and doing good
things with it and also reallyattending to his defensive
responsibilities.
And I think you know he's a guyand we've talked about him to
death.
But if he can get someconfidence, I believe that you
know he can be an asset for theHurricanes and they're going to
need him, of course, goingforward.
(28:36):
But back to this thing on Ajo,and I think you're absolutely
right, aaron, if Sebastian Ajodoesn't kind of get back into
his mojo and we know what he'slike when he's really on his
game he's involved and he wantsto make a difference.
We're not seeing as much ofthat this year and we wonder is
there something going on?
Is he injured?
Is there something around Ajo?
(28:57):
We don't know.
They've tried a lot ofdifferent line-mates with him.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
What do we think?
Well, there were someconversations on X about whether
, because they were playing inChicago, because it was the
first time they were playingagainst Devo Taravainen, that he
just hasn't had somebody so far, since Taravainen has left,
that he has that instantchemistry with, you know,
teravine and Naho notnecessarily scoring as much at
five on five as people thought,but it really didn't matter
(29:30):
because whether they werescoring or not, they were
impacting the game and the waythey played together really
impacted the game.
And I kind of see that.
I kind of see that he may havetried him with Svechnikov.
He does have some of thatchemistry with Jarvis, for sure,
and I think that ultimately,seth Jarvis is not going to stay
on Jordan Stahl's line.
(29:52):
He's been on the top line for agood bit and I think he'll be
back up there as soon as WillCarrier comes back.
But it's just he needs thatperson that is, someone who
thinks like he does, a littlebit a little bit, and he doesn't
have that right now.
It's the first time in a longtime that he hasn't, so I don't
(30:12):
know if that's anything, butit's possible.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Well, I think for
sure that he's missing Tara
Viner I don't think there's anyquestion about that, and it
might be personal and it mightbe, you know, play as well.
I mean those guys were.
You know as well.
I mean those guys were.
You know they were incredible.
As they called them, thecherubs.
They were an incrediblecombination and you know, I
remember watching somehighlights of some of the things
they did, you know, three, fouror five years ago.
It was just incredible.
(30:37):
The magic that they produce, andwe know how good Tara Vinen is
in terms of setting players up.
He's he's one of the best inthe league when he's on his game
, and we've seen some of thatwith Chicago this year, but I
think that's been part of it.
I think that's been a bigchange for him, and you know,
sometimes we don't think about.
you know those kinds of thingsright.
I mean, these are professionalplayers, they should be right
(30:58):
above and so on.
But there's a lot of personalelements that come into it and I
think you know he and Jarvisheading to, you know, the Four
Nations tournament, that mightbe a good thing, you know he's
going to be back.
Ajo is going to be with the bestin the Four Nations.
He's going to be up againstincredible competition and maybe
(31:21):
it's going to give him a chanceto kind of kick his game into
another gear.
We'll have to wait and see, butif we look at the cage right
now, sorry, go ahead, Go ahead,Katie.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I just want one more
point about Ajo.
The other thing is that I thinkand this is something the
coaching staff needs to lookinto Whenever I look at shot
totals at the end of games,usually Svetch is up there.
Burns is definitely up there.
It's kind of problematic whenBurns is like the second most
prolific shooter for the entireteam.
In a game, Ajo's usuallysitting there.
(31:51):
One shot two shots yeah.
I know he likes to be adistributor, I know he wants to
be the play creator.
But just like Rod praised KKwith that straight line game, I
(32:12):
think Ajo needs to bring alittle more straight line to his
game and shoot the puck more,because he has a really good
shot and he is handcuffinghimself, his line and the team
as a whole If he is not makingthe defense and the goalie have
to respect his shot and thequality of the shot he has.
I mean, that overtime goal hescored was beautiful.
It just slipped right past thepost into the net.
(32:35):
More of that, please.
That's the kind of ajo that isdangerous and that will strike
fear into opposing defenses.
So you know, that's really whatI want to see.
I want to see more four, five,six shots on goal from him every
single game.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Well, you know, if
you think about it, you know,
with Ajo, he's a guy that, frommy viewpoint, has not been as
influential in the play, and Ithink there's something we're
maybe not taking intoconsideration, and that is that,
as the Canes have been builtand as we know, the other lines
weren't really as much of adefensive concern for the
(33:19):
opposition, and so they couldreally pour a lot of their
defensive acumen and linematching or whatever the case
may be, up against the Ajo line,and I think that's been part of
it.
I think he's been giving aboveaverage coverage simply because
the other lines were not worththe effort from the opposition
(33:40):
team.
In that regard, they didn'thave anyone kind of striking
fear into them that they mightbe coming out and scoring some
goals.
So I think there's somethingelse there.
We just have to kind of thinkabout that, and I think it's a
good segue into the next part ofthis, which is, you know, as we
look at the Hurricanes and welook at how they're built right
now and you know, we see themstarting to maybe they're going
(34:03):
to start to do a run, maybewe're going to see them pick up
their play and improve theiroverall position how do we feel
about them as they then headinto the playoffs?
Are they built the right way?
Do they have the right kind ofcombination of players?
Do they need to make some moves?
And where does that sit?
Do you want to start it off,erin?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Sure, I think that
there's always been this
negativity out there about can aRod Brindamore team actually go
far in the playoffs?
And this isn't just people onTwitter, this is also national
broadcasting and people whenthey comment on the Canes,
especially during the playoffswell, can we get this team?
(34:45):
Is this team going to take thenext step, especially during the
playoffs?
Well, can we get this team?
Is this team going to take thenext step?
I mean, to a certain extent,when they've, you know, the only
couple of times they've made itto the Eastern Conference Final
, they've been swept.
So it's a fair question to askcan this team go far?
And someone phrased it this waythat you know there are teams
that are built to get to theplayoffs and then there are
(35:06):
teams that are built for theplayoffs.
The Canes have been a team forthe last six years, which is
incredible, that has gotten tothe playoffs.
They are built to get to theplayoffs yes, through the
playoffs, though I think it'sgoing to require some changes.
It's going to require somechanges, just systematically.
To a certain extent, like youknow, with all this stuff we've
been talking about finishing,that can't be where they are.
(35:27):
It's going to be.
They need.
They need changes on the powerplay.
They need to figure out what'swrong with it and kick it back
into high gear, and it may be amatter of tweaking the units a
little bit or getting creativewith some of the structure.
I mean, they're going to haveto work on that, and you know
they are, you know they alreadyare.
But the other thing is, youknow, are they built for the
playoffs?
What are they missing?
(35:48):
You know we've had lots ofconversations about the 2C
situation, and I'm sure we'regoing to get to that here in a
minute too, anyway, so I'llleave that aside for the moment.
The one thing that you know.
I've had a couple of differentthings.
One is, I still questionwhether they have right now,
this year, do they have thegoaltending?
(36:08):
And it's not because I thinkthere's anything wrong with
Freddie Anderson and PiotrKuczykow.
I think Kuczykow is showingsigns of getting better and
better by the minute, and he'sgoing to continue to do that.
He might be in a position nextyear where we have no questions
about playoff goaltending.
There's still been some ups anddowns with him this year,
though, and so I think it's fairto say if he's the guy, is he
(36:29):
enough?
The only reason we have to askif he's the guy, is he enough,
though, is because of Freddie.
When Freddie is healthy andplaying well, you know he's got
best in caliber numbers.
He's great, but can he stayhealthy?
And that's the question.
So I don't know if thatquestion can be answered.
Certainly, they're not going tomake a move with goaltending
(36:50):
now that they have Freddie back.
It's not going to happen.
So I don't know if that is justthe situation and the reality.
They're going to go as far asthis tandem can take them and
that's going to have to be okay,but for me, the other area that
needs to be improved is thefourth line yeah, I don't think
the fourth line is heavy enoughwhen you look at um, I mean, and
(37:13):
it depends on, I know, whencarrier comes back, if we'll, if
they put carrier on the fourthline.
That's a different line.
They have players, they canmove around and make it a
heavier fourth line, but youcan't have we've had a line in
the recent past now, not sinceblake was moved up to the top
line, but you've had a line inthe recent past now, not since
Blake was moved up to the topline, but you've had a line in
the recent past that was JacksonBlake, juha Jaska and Jack
(37:34):
Drury.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
These are not big
tough players.
No, they got switched aroundagainst Vegas because Rod
Brittenmore looked at that lineand said they're too small, I
can't have them up againstVegas's fourth line as opposed.
So if they're seeing that inthe regular season games, they
have to be thinking about whatthey're going to do with that in
(37:57):
the playoffs.
What do you think, katie?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
And that just kind of
becomes the big question mark
of are the players that theCanes have not only suited for a
playoff run, but are theycurrently correctly slotted in
the role that they are best ableto fill?
And it comes down to ice timeand usage and that sort of thing
.
I also go back to what you saidabout Ajo not having that duo
with him.
That he really reads andconnects with and so I wouldn't
be surprised.
I know we're going to talk the2C thing later about that
(38:48):
upgrade, but I wouldn't besurprised if the priority is
actually a scoring winger thatthey feel could come in and vibe
well with Ajo.
And you know Gensel came in anddid well, but I there was there
was a lot of like there weresome empty net goals and some
other things.
It worked.
But I feel like there there'ssomebody out there that still
that that Ajo needs to clickwith, and it was like a most
like a 90% click with Gensel.
Is there somebody out therethat can have a better vibe with
(39:12):
him to help create that offensethat they need?
That would be what I thinkneeds to happen, because if the
fourth line gets bullied, thefourth line gets bullied and but
it's not going to make adifference if your fourth line
is the one doing the bullying,if your first line is not
putting the buck in the net.
Exactly, the thing is, as theCanes are constructed now, I
still think there is a path tothe Stanley Cup.
(39:34):
It's just very narrow and theyhave to have everything go right
for them.
It's still a really, reallygood team.
Yeah, if they can execute theirgame plan the way that they
envision it, they can beatanybody.
But if they're not on top oftheir game and they're missing
in some of the small details,then that's when they get swept
(39:56):
or run out of the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, I think you're
both right.
For sure, they're going to haveto add some players, and we'll
talk a little bit about that nowas we get into a discussion on
what we're seeing out there.
But ultimately, I think theCanes are going to have to.
You know, they're just going tohave to get the kind of
performance from their playersthat they would expect to get.
So the top players are going tohave to be their top players.
(40:22):
I think the goaltending boy ifthe indication last night was
anything of how Piotr- is goingto feel now yeah, he was amazing
last night and he may be thismay be again.
It's like last year.
He's not having to worry abouthey, I'm in goal again next game
.
You know kind of thing.
He's got Freddie there.
(40:42):
Now he can concentrate.
He didn't let in any softies.
He made several 10-bell saves.
He was concentrate, he didn'tlet in any softies, he made
several 10-bell saves.
He was outstanding.
And, as we know, if Freddie getsgoing the way he can and Piotr
gets hot, this goaltending cantake them a long, long, long way
For sure.
So to me that's one of thebiggest things that can drive
(41:04):
the Canes deep into the playoffs.
I mean goaltending.
As we know, we've talked aboutthis with Vasilevsky and other
goalies who simply won the daywhen it gets into the playoffs,
and maybe the goaltending can bea big part of this.
And if they can get their powerplay going, I mean obviously
again, it's those top guyswho've got to get their game
going and then they'll be muchmore dangerous.
But you know what I wanted topick up on that discussion about
(41:28):
the center spot, and it's timefor us to discuss the rumor mill
.
So this week, of course, therehas been a lot of chatter and
boy, we were sitting on the edgeof our seats to see if
something was going to happen,and actually it all kind of was
fueled by some comments fromElliot Friedman, and let's
(41:51):
listen to what he had to say.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I do think, now that
I've heard about it a little bit
more.
I think Carolina's around there.
I think the Rangers are stillaround there.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So, as you can hear,
elliot suggests that among the
teams that are currentlydiscussing JT Miller's possible
potential opportunity to jointheir teams, of course the
Rangers at the top, but theHurricanes right in the mix, and
he stated very clearly that theHurricanes were one of the
teams that he thought could be aserious contender, jt Miller.
(42:24):
A lot of folks have differentviews, I know.
Erin you've got a particularview.
We'll pick that up in a minute.
I just want to pass on a coupleof stats that I think are
interesting with Miller.
And sure, he's definitely gotsome emotion issues and you know
, he reminds me a lot about aguy that we used to have and who
I think played extremely wellfor us, and that's Tony D'Angelo
.
He's a fiery guy, he wears hisemotions on his sleeve.
(42:51):
But this guy, his numbers areamazing.
In the last four years, if youlook at the stats that he's
played, in 242 games he's got284 points.
So I mean, that's an amazingnumber and a plus 40.
By comparison, Ajo, in 232games, had 237 points.
I guess the comment that I wouldraise here we know that Miller
(43:14):
is an offensive juggernaut.
He can drive big numbers, he'sdone that for sure, and he can
score.
The concept that we played withwas wouldn't it be interesting
if the Canes had two Ajo-typequality players at the center?
Ice roll and what thedifference that would make to
the Hurricanes?
So whenever you think aboutadding a guy of the quality of a
JT Miller, of course it changesall the rules for you,
(43:36):
notwithstanding the person,notwithstanding anything else,
just the capability that thisman has.
But let's talk about that.
What do we think aboutpotentially adding a guy like JT
Miller and what do we thinkit's going to cost if the Canes
can make that happen, Erin?
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Well, the cost factor
has been going all over the
place and I know that mostpeople agree that it's going to
take a couple of roster players.
Just from the cap spaceperspective, the Canes can't
really make the deal based juston futures, unless because we
were talking about Eric Tulskyhere.
I never rule out thepossibility that he has a way to
(44:15):
do things that would notrequire him to give up as much
as people think because this isEric Tulsky.
So it would probably costKokaniemi and Roslevic, it would
probably cost a prospect and itwould probably cost a draft
pick.
Corey Prondman, who I don'tparticularly think is very
accurate in his assessments,thinks that the prospect would
(44:35):
be someone like Nikita Artemonov.
I don't think so.
I think Artemonov is too highcaliber of a prospect for the
Canes to hand it over inexchange for a center who is,
after all, going to be 32 yearsold in March.
So this is something that Iknow that we've had our
disagreements about whetherMiller would be a good fit for
(44:58):
the team.
Personality stuff, the lockerroom impact that's a concern.
I don't think you can brushthat aside.
But for me the bigger concernis the value of the contract
over the five years that itstill extends.
He's being paid $8 million ayear for the next five years.
He has a full no-move clauseand a no-trade clause that kicks
(45:19):
in as well.
So we're talking about somebodywho you have to buy him out to
get rid of him within a coupleof years, so right at the time
that his biggest age-relatedregression may be kicking in, he
may become a very expensiveproblem to handle if his numbers
do fall off the way theygenerally do.
Now some people on the HF Boardswebsite were sharing an article
(45:42):
about age-related regression inforwards and how dramatically
they drop off at certain points.
You know below, you know overage 30, really starting younger
than we think, and you kind ofto me.
I think there's that veteraneffect where a player continues
to be very effective.
Even if his scoring touch hasgone down, he's still really
savvy about getting to the net.
He's still.
(46:03):
He's got all those movesfigured out.
But this was a verywell-researched and very
stat-heavy article that wasshared.
That showed that you know justhow much they drop off and why
it's not a good idea in generalto take on or to give long
contracts to forwards over theage of 29 or 30.
(46:23):
Sure, the article was written bysomebody you may have heard of.
His name is Eric Tulsky.
He wrote this article for SBNation several years ago.
So I look at this wholesituation.
The chatter is there.
Are the Canes going to beinterested?
Of course they're going to lookat it because they're always in
on everything and they alwayslook at it.
But when it comes to thatmoment of pulling the trigger, I
(46:45):
have to ask seriously, thatmoment of pulling the trigger, I
have to ask seriously is EricTulsky going to take on that
contract for this team, givenhis own research into the impact
of age-related regression onforwards?
And he has a companion articleabout the defenseman too.
But that gets into more thanjust scoring.
So it's way beyond our scopehere.
(47:06):
But this is a man who knowswhat age-related regression does
to players and has studied itin some detail and has shared
those thoughts publicly.
I just don't see it.
So we'll see.
What do you think, katie?
Speaker 3 (47:24):
I definitely don't
have as deep of an insight there
, but my instincts say that theonly thing going for Miller as
far as what the Canes need isthe offense, he's not a fit for
the rest of the Canes system.
He's not a 200 foot player.
He'd have to be babysat bysomebody.
You'd have to worry about youknow things going the other way.
(47:45):
And if you're trading again, ifyou're trading Coke and yummy,
you worry, have to worry aboutyou know things going the other
way.
And if you're trading again, ifyou're trading Coke and Yemi,
you worry about the size of theCanes and their effectiveness in
the playoffs if you don't havethose big bodies to put out
there when needed, outside ofStahl and Martinuk.
So it trickles beyond justMiller and the scoring he would
(48:05):
provide.
It's the defense, it's the fitin the locker room, which I
think is a bigger deal, becausethe Canes have a very niche type
of personality that they'relooking for to fit with their
team and work with the team, andif that fit isn't there,
they're more than happy to moveon from that player.
Just ask the ones that havebeen traded that are off another
(48:26):
local house now, sure.
So I just all of those factorscome out.
I just don't see how you havethe contract situation, the
locker room situation, thedefensive impact, the getting
smaller in other areas of theforward court.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
It's just a whole
bunch of other negatives that
line up to say that this wouldnot be a wise move for the Canes
and one other thing, if I canpiggyback off of that, katie, my
own personal thoughts about thematter aside, I do think that
one of the serious questionsabout an offensive guy like jt
miller is will that translate tothe carolina hurricanes?
(49:04):
This is not a this is not aquestion of Miller's skill, this
is not a question of hisobvious ability to generate
offense.
But you know, you look atVincent Trocek who was held to
51 points on the Canes and thenwent to be 70, 75,.
You know, in New York, Some ofthe criticisms of the Canes'
(49:24):
offensive systems in that thesheer weight of defensive
responsibility that is placed onour forwards that keeps them
from hitting those eye-poppingnumbers offensively.
I mean, I don't think thatSebastian Ajo would remain a
point-per-game player, merely apoint-per-game player in another
(49:45):
system.
I think he would be far beyondthat.
One of the ongoing discussionpoints we've had about Martin
Natchez is is he going to resignwith the Canes or is he going
to go somewhere where he can bea hundred point guy?
Because there's no questionthat in a system that doesn't
expect you to be handling halfof the defensive work you know
on the ice, maybe he could be.
(50:06):
So does JT Miller come in andremain a 90 to 100 or even point
per game score, or does he dropoff significantly and at that
point all those other questionsyou raised, Katie, become a much
bigger concern.
It's not like the Caneswouldn't benefit from having a
60-point center, but would theybenefit from having a 60-point
(50:28):
center who gives up 55 goals theother way?
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Is that a?
Speaker 4 (50:33):
realistic question.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
A couple of comments,
and I think sometimes we don't
have all the information.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Okay, that's the
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
We don't know a lot
about JT Miller, but I'll tell
you a little bit about him.
First of all, he's 6'1 and 218.
He's not a little guy.
He's a solid player that'sgoing to go in and he can muck
it up with anybody.
Let me read what the hockeyforecaster said about this young
man.
The supremely versatile forwardhas blossomed into a consistent
(51:01):
offensive force.
After several seasons ofteasing teams with a skill and
size, his off the puck play hasimproved and he's gotten better
at using his size to good effectin winning board battles.
He can play anywhere up frontand in any situation, and is
also a rare forward who can playmore than 20 minutes a game on
(51:23):
a regular basis.
This guy is a player.
He's a player.
Speaker 4 (51:29):
There's no question.
That is another question,though, because when you talk
about the ice time, the way thatBrindamore distributes ice time
among his forwards is not likeit is on other teams.
Will Miller play 20 minutes anight.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Oh no, I don't think
it's saying that he would
necessarily be playing he canthough I think that's what
they're saying.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
This guy can play in
all situations.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
He can play big
minutes, he can play tough
minutes.
I guess where I'm going withthis is this, and it's kind of
what I've been saying all alongthere isn't a perfect fit for
the Hurricanes.
Okay, we've struggled to findany possible centers that could
come in and make a materialdifference for any period of
time One of the things aboutMiller that's enticing.
(52:11):
Of course, he does have acontract with term on it, and
this is something that Tulskylikes.
So you've got, yes, he's over30.
That's true, but he does have acontract with some term.
And if you look at the centeravailability out there and this
is the biggest single problem ifyou think that the Canes can go
and win a cup with theirexisting team and the Coconemi
(52:32):
is now going to blossom intothis great center then that's
fine, no move is necessary.
But if you feel like the Canesare going to have to improve at
center and we've talked aboutthis a lot your choices aren't
out there.
Speaker 4 (52:45):
Your choices for an
offensive center, a top center
of any form or shape, they justaren't out there, and certainly
not with term, they're notweighing, but I think that the
problem here, too, though, isthat we're looking at a
(53:08):
situation where the Canucks maybe their own worst enemy in this
trade.
They've had, they've definitelybeen.
You know there's lots been outthere in the media about this,
and that they were.
First, it was Pedersen orMiller, and then, you know, when
31 teams called to ask aboutPedersen, they backed off and
said no, no, actually, we justwant to move Miller.
And you know, when 31 teamscalled to ask about Pedersen,
they backed off and said no, no,actually, we just want to move
(53:29):
Miller.
Now they are actually puttingthe brakes on it being a fast.
You know it was going to be.
It was going to happenimmediately.
They was going to go to the NewYork Rangers and then and then
all of that allegedly fell apart.
So what?
What?
I think, what Tulsky, what thegeneral managers of these other
teams are looking at, that'sDrury in New York.
I guess you know what they'regoing to do is they're going to
(53:50):
say, okay, we're not paying topdollar mid-season for a player
you feel that you have to move.
Oh, for sure so then theCanucks are coming back and kind
of saying, well you know, wemight just wait and ride out the
season and move them in thesummer.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Possible.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
If that happens,
though and I know that you're
concerned about the Canesfinding anybody, if that happens
in the summer, you're talkingabout a picture of other centers
potentially being available andthe canes having a boatload of
cap space to work with.
That's something I expect erictelsky, with his incredible
intelligence, to be all over andto be saying do we want to make
(54:39):
a move right now for thisplayer, given the drawbacks of
his age and everything else, ordo we want to get through this
playoff round with the guys thatwe have again, knowing that
Burns is about to be finished,knowing that Nikitian is coming
next year?
I don't know that they wouldrush to add Miller unless they
(55:03):
could get him at a bargain, andthey might be able to do that.
It's possible because of theCanucks putting themselves in
this position, but I don't seethem surrendering more than
they're prepared to trade, andthe question of Kokaniemi and
Roslovic is pretty much, I mean,I think that's a given.
If that was all it took, theywould definitely do it.
They're not going to give upprospects that they want to keep
(55:24):
.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
They're not going to
give up prospects that they want
to keep.
Speaker 4 (55:27):
They're not going to
give a first round draft pick.
It's an overpay for a situationwhere the team the Canucks are
in the desperate situation.
They're the ones that have tomake the deal.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
It's not the other
way around and then on top of
that, miller has the control.
He gets to say where he goes.
He has the control.
I guess the comment is this Ifwe next week, if a deal is done
and JT Miller is playing for theHurricanes, I'm going to be a
pretty happy guy.
I know, and even if they give upthe first-round pick, the
first-round pick at 30 or 31,.
Who cares?
They've got tons of those guys,they've got lots of prospects.
That's not a big deal, so Idon't really worry about that.
(56:01):
Now they could do it and pickup another player.
Now one of the guys I like isthis, nils Hoaglander, who's had
a terrible year.
I think they could getHoaglander thrown in and then
they got another guy that canhelp the forward ranks.
But having said all this, Ithink you're right.
Adam Gold told us the other dayit's not happening.
So that's the Bible.
Speaker 4 (56:21):
So we don't have to
worry about it.
I think we all agree that Goldmay not know, but yeah, I
thought I'd throw that in there,because Adam did suggest that
he wasn't going to go.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
Look, I don't
necessarily think it's going to
happen either.
It's a good, fun discussion toget into.
He is an excellent player allthings considered.
Whether he lasts three or fouror five years.
Who knows?
We haven't got a clue.
He could be just as good infour years as he is today.
We don't know that.
Look at Jordan Stull he's stilltrucking along and he's doing
some good work.
So these guys, I guess now theyare in better shape longer.
(56:52):
They do different things now interms of their care, and so we
don't know.
But having said that, I stillthink the Canes need to show up
at center.
And I think they need to do itthis year if they're going to do
anything at all.
So, and I think they need to doit this year if they're going
to do anything at all.
So the next guy we're going totalk about is going to be Brock
Nelson, so I wanted to put thison.
This is Frank Cervelli fromDaily Faceoff.
(57:13):
He did a big piece on BrockNelson recently and at the end
of the piece he talked a littlebit about the Hurricanes as
being a possible suitor.
Let's listen to what Frank hasto say.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
I think Brock Nelson
would make some sense in
Carolina.
We just talked about Carolinaand JT Miller.
I think he's probably againmore than Carolina would want to
spend.
They didn't even give up afirst for Gensel last year.
I'm not sure that they'd begiving it up for Brock Nelson,
but they do have the prospectsto be in the mix but they do
have the prospects to be in themix.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Okay, so Frank
basically saying that he's not
sure the Canes would want to doa deal for Nelson with the
Islanders, simply because hethinks it would be a good move.
But would they be willing togive up as much as the Islanders
would be looking for?
Certainly, he felt like theCanes had the prospect base to
(58:07):
do it, but he wasn't sure thatthey'd be willing to go that far
in a deal, he said.
Interestingly enough, theydidn't even throw a first-round
pick in the deal for Jay Cancellast year.
So in any case, here's a guythat three years of 30 goals,
and more the last three years,of course, for Brock Nelson.
He's a little older, he's in at33.
(58:29):
He's an unrestricted free agentat the end of the season.
But to your point, katie, hebrings a lot of size.
He's a big man.
He's in at 6'4", 200-pluspounds.
He's a big guy.
He can play.
What do we think about theCanes doing a move to grab Brock
Nelson?
Speaker 3 (58:47):
I definitely think
his game is a better fit for the
Canes.
Now, you know it always gets alittle bit tricky.
They made it happen last yearwith Gensel, with somebody who
was another Metro Division foe,but my experience the past
little while watching tradeshappen is usually teams prefer
to deal with teams that are nottheir direct competition in the
(59:07):
division, so that could make ita little bit more tricky.
But the Nelson option I thinkjust fits where the Canes are at
better.
Like you said, his contractwill be up.
If it works out, then great,keep him around for another
reasonable length contract.
It's not all the years thatMiller would be around.
(59:28):
After this season.
If it doesn't work out he cango find a new home and the Canes
have the cap space to buildwhat they need to build over the
offseason.
Like you said, the size is alsogood.
I think the temperament alsowould fit the Canes better.
The Islanders' style of playsuggests that it would be an
easier transition into the Canessystem if he were to come over
(59:51):
here.
So I like this idea a lotbetter than I like the JT Miller
suggestion.
Speaker 4 (59:58):
I like it too, katie,
and I think it's for very many
of the same reasons.
I think Brock Nelson, he'sgoing to fit right into that
locker room, there's no questionwhatsoever.
He has the work ethic and youknow he doesn't quit on games
where he doesn't think thingsare going well.
You know he's going to give youexactly.
I think he is what.
(01:00:19):
The word that comes to mind isthe word that Rod Rundemore is
using all the time these daysconsistent.
He plays a consistent game.
It's just there every night.
The effort, the execution, it'sall there.
He's much more of a Hurricanesfit to me than Miller.
For those reasons, and I thinkthat you know, when it comes to
(01:00:42):
the difference in betweenMiller's offense and Nelson's
offense, I don't think that'sthe biggest consideration,
because I don't think that.
I think that what Miller, whatMiller brings is, is very like
you said, katie, it's kind ofnarrow.
It's one thing you know Nelsonbrings everything.
He's got some good offense,he's, he's still putting up good
numbers at his age and he's,and he's doing the work.
(01:01:07):
So you put him on a team wherehe doesn't necessarily have to
be the only guy doing some ofthat stuff.
No offense, but no, I mean andthere again too, you said the
good thing about not having totake on the long contract I
wouldn't even be surpriseddepending on what negotiations
would happen and whether or notthe Canes would be willing to
move a roster player.
(01:01:27):
Maybe they would do a sign-intrade they might, and if the
Islanders could facilitate thatthey might get a player back
from the Canes.
That will help them goingforward, because they're not in
the tear it down and do a fullrebuild, regardless of whether
their fans think that theyshould be.
I know the fans want that, butthey're not in that mode.
(01:01:48):
They're not in that we're goingto tear it all down and sell
off everybody you know and get afull rebuild from the ground
floor.
They don't even have theprospects in the system to begin
thinking about that kind ofrebuild.
But you know that's again thatmight be a very attractive
option for the Islanders to takea roster player you know in
exchange and and to and tofacilitate a sign and trade with
(01:02:10):
a division rival.
So I mean, it all depends onwhether it's the right fit or
the right move at the right time.
But I think that has a betterchance.
But I will agree with Tom thatthe one big hold up.
The big issue is everybody isgoing to want Brock Nelson.
Every contender out there isgoing to want Brock Nelson.
(01:02:30):
There could be a bit of abidding war and we all know that
.
That's when the Canes step awayand say you know what?
We're good.
So, sadly, as much as I thinkthat could be a really good move
for the Canes, it just dependson whether they're willing to
put the assets forward that itwould take.
Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Well, I think the
challenge too is is you're
you're looking at having to giveup a roster player in any case
because you've got to get thecap space You've?
Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
got to somehow.
Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
So it's a bit of a
challenge.
I mean, it would be great ifthey could pick up Brock Nelson
and also keep Kokuniemi, becausethen they could roll Kokuniemi
on the fourth line, which wouldgive them some big centers to
try to do some heavy lifting.
But again, I agree with you, Ilike Brock Nelson.
He's been a guy that I'vealways appreciated.
He plays a solid game and he'sa guy that can make things
(01:03:20):
happen, and he's been a Caneskiller, as I've mentioned a
number of times in the past.
So it'd be nice to get him onour team.
Anyway, those two guys I thinkare certainly you know their
discussion points the Canes, ifthey're going to do something at
center.
As I've mentioned, there's not alot of guys.
We have talked about O'Reilly,We've talked about Nazem Kadri.
We don't really know what'sgoing to happen here, but
certainly, as we kind of headtowards the Four Nations
(01:03:44):
tournament, we could see someactivity.
Now, the other area that youtalked about, Katie, is on the
scoring side, and we had pickedup a little bit of a discussion
on a couple of guys, with Krakenand that's former, of course,
Burakovsky, and we talked alittle bit about Oliver
Bjorkstrand, the maestro.
So what are we thinking aboutthose guys?
(01:04:04):
Do we think there's stillpossible fits for the Canes, or
do we think we need to getsomething a little bit tougher?
Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
I think that
Burakovsky is probably not a fit
, and that has more to do withhis injury history.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
The.
Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Canes need somebody
who can come in and stay in, and
he's just for some reason hecomes in and he's just likely to
.
When, especially when games getphysical, it just doesn't.
I don't just gets hurt too bad.
So, as good as his shot is, asmuch heart and effort he plays
with I mean his, his actual gameitself would fit the canes
(01:04:41):
quite well and and he does havesome of that finishing that they
need, bjorkstrand would perhapsbe a better option there,
definitely because he is afinisher and I think that his
game would work well and he'd bemore likely to stay in the
lineup.
Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
I agree, yep.
Well, and I think Katie, as Iwas going to say, I think
Katie's onto something with thewhole.
You know, if they don't make amove to change center before the
playoffs which that does notmean they won't make one over
the summer but if they decide,you know what?
That's not the most pressingitem on the table.
(01:05:19):
We have other things we need todo and if that's the case, then
I could see that they would gofor.
You know, they're going to belooking at all of the potential
wingers that are available,because if you can't find
somebody that fits with Ajo,then you've got a line that
isn't working.
That needs to be working.
So yeah, but I don't know who'sout there that I mean.
We talked about the Penguinsmaybe having a fire sale, but I
(01:05:43):
don't think there's much thereno, not since they, since they
said not these five players, andit's the five players everybody
wants you know I would only beinterested in a brian ruster or
somebody like that.
Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
You're not getting
that guy, so no, you're not so
no, I agree, you know, that'sthe bigger challenge.
That's the thing that wesometimes we kind of have to put
back into the mix.
Players are going to beavailable, and if they're made
available now, they may not beavailable in the summer.
Okay, so that's the interestingthing, uh, and you have to and
(01:06:16):
you know when you're sitting ineric's seat and he's going
through these.
You know machinations and youknow what's plan a, b, c and d
he he's.
He's looking at this because,again to your point before, I
think Aaron was that he's goingto look at players in the summer
and he's going to figure outwhich ones he wants to target.
There's not a lot of qualitycenters that people are willing
(01:06:38):
to give up.
That is the tough part.
If you've got a great center,you're not about to trade them
off because most teams don'thave the depth to kind of fill
for that person and you're notgoing to get much back because
the team that's acquiringdoesn't have the assets in the
first place, right from a centerperspective.
Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
One name that comes
up.
One name that has come up thatwe haven't talked about is a
little too much, although Ithink we maybe touched on him
briefly whether the BuffaloSabres will make Dylan Cousins
available.
And that would be a veryinteresting move for the Canes
because I think Cousins has alot of potential and hasn't
really taken off necessarily,and I don't know enough about
(01:07:17):
him.
He's a young player.
I don't know enough about himto say whether he would or would
not fit with the Canes, butthat might be a move that they
would actually be willing tospend some money on if they, if
they thought that he was theplayer they wanted to get.
Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
So I'm all over Dylan
cousins and I mentioned him
previously.
I think he's a great youngplayer.
He's one of the few youngcenters you might get.
Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
And that that may be
more what they're thinking.
If this doesn't, if they don'tend up landing Miller and they
or they don't end up landingMiller and they or they don't
decide to go for Miller,whichever one it is.
You know they might be thinkingwe want to build for the team
that's going to be around.
You know Nikitian's age and youknow these other young Jarvis's
age.
You know they may want to bestarting to build for that core
(01:08:00):
and it's a it's a transitionalpoint.
That's why we keep saying thatword transitional year.
Right now there aren't as manyolder veterans on the Canes as
there have been in the past andthere's going to be fewer of
them next year once Burns leaves.
And speaking of Burns, just forthe one thing that we didn't
touch on in the trade rumors.
I'm hearing some rumblings andit's not anything concrete, but
(01:08:24):
there are some observers of theCarolina Hurricanes who are
convinced that the move theCanes will make at the trade
deadline is going to be for adefenseman.
And you look at our defensivecore and you say, well, why
would they do that?
But then you can kind of see it.
So now I don't know who theywould target or who's even going
to be available.
(01:08:45):
But it's interesting to mebecause most people would say,
well, the Canes are set ondefense, they don't need a
defenseman.
But there is a certain amountof risk going into the playoffs
with a 39-year-old top pair Dand there's a certain amount of
risk in going into the playoffswith the Ghost Walker pairing.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
I think you're right
and you know just to comment on
that is that most teams do pickup a defenseman at the deadline.
It's just.
It's just what they do becauseof injury.
Right, they have an injury andthe Canes don't have the depth.
We've seen that they don't havethe depth right now in Chicago.
They want to bring up for aplayoff run.
(01:09:23):
So I think you're right.
I think you're totally right.
The bigger concern I would haveI certainly hear your challenge
in terms of Burns.
Goss.
Despair has struggled withinjury and we know that's always
a concern with him.
And he's more brittle than youthink.
I am delighted with Sean Walker.
I think he is a wonderfuldefense.
Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
He was great last
night.
Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
I wish they would
move him up to the second
pairing, and I wish they woulddo that now, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
You know, what would
set the Twitter ex-verse
absolutely aflame that would bea bargain for a seventh
defenseman is that there's acertain former Canes defenseman
that has returned back to NorthAmerica from Russia.
Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
And as yeah, yeah,
there's a report he got into
some sort of kerfuffle with thecoaching staff in Russia and
he's coming back to NorthAmerica not necessarily to the
NHL, but you talk about at thelast moment.
You know signing teams do thisall the time.
Talk about at the last moment,you know signing that teams do
this all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
League minimum
contract veteran who?
Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
wants one last shot
at the NHL before it's time to
call it quits and I think youknow at the beginning of the
season he wasn't great last yearbut he was more than
serviceable as a seventhdefenseman when Pesci got hurt
in that fight as a seventhdefenseman when Pesci got hurt
in that fight.
If you're talking about theCanes looking for somebody that
knows the system, somebody thatcan help run the power play, so
(01:10:54):
if Ghost gets hurt again, you'renot having to rely on Ty Smith
running your power play.
Oh my, and would be a bargain,you're not having to trade
anybody for him.
You're not having to tradepicks or prospects or anything.
You keep that whole stable.
Just saying it.
Like I said, it would set awhole lot of people off one way
(01:11:17):
or the other, rage or chorusesof hallelujah, but it's just
something to consider.
Since he's coming, since he'scoming back over, the Canes
could get him for nothing.
Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Well, you've
absolutely made my day.
I love Tony.
I think he's a great player andI think he played well for the
Canes.
He played very well for theCanes and you're right, he's a
guy that they could sign.
Bring him in.
He wouldn't even miss a beatand he left on good terms.
I mean, it wasn't a question ofyou know whether or not he'd
(01:11:50):
done some things he shouldn't do.
I think that's great and I'dlove to see him back for sure.
But I think, in any case, theCanes will bolster defense and
they'll do it just because it'snormally done in playoffs.
Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
Well, I mean, like
you said otherwise, they're
calling up Riley Stillman or TySmith.
They can't do it.
Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
They can't do it and
you know, scott Morrow and the
other young guys are not ready.
So I think for sure there'ssomething that could be done
there.
So, yeah, so lots of discussion.
We're going to get more andmore as we get towards,
obviously, the Four Nationstournament, and then the
deadline is just two weeks afterthat tournament ends, on the
20th.
So we're going to have a lot ofexcitement as we head into
(01:12:27):
february.
Uh, and for sure the canes willbe in the middle of it, because
anything that's significant, uh, they're definitely in
conversation they're always partof the conversation.
Yep for sure, um okay, as wewrap up, uh, ladies, uh final
thoughts, uh, aaron, what do yougot?
Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
well, I'm like I said
, I'm proud of them for making
that three-game win streakhappen.
Now let's make it four.
News I saw a brief comment thismorning on X about Elvis
Merzlikin's leaving practicewith a possible injury.
Now, it may be nothing, thatmay be nothing.
(01:13:07):
It could be a stinger, thathe'll be fine, but that's
something to keep an eye on.
For.
Is it tomorrow night's game?
Yeah, tomorrow night's game,thursday's game?
Because whenever we upload thisand you know so, that'll
definitely show us the outcomeyou know that could influence
the outcome of that game.
They could make it a four-gamewinning streak, and wouldn't
that be exciting?
I just want to see themcontinue to get more aggressive
(01:13:33):
offensively, and I think thatthat is something Katie thinks
too.
Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
Yeah, they have eight
games remaining between now,
starting with the Columbus game,and the Four Nations tournament
.
So what I really want to see isa big push from them.
I want them to enter that breakon a high note, feeling good, a
little bit of a role, Ideally.
I want six out of the eightgames to be in the in the wind
column.
I think that's really, like youknow, five.
(01:13:59):
Fine, Don't want it to be 500,though.
Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
I don't want.
Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
I don't want them to
be going back to that.
Four wins, four losses, oh, wewon, oh we lost, oh we won, oh
we lost.
Let's get off the seesaw andstart making some progress and
and padding, padding our pointsstanding a little bit better.
So that's really what I'd liketo see at least six out of the
eight wins.
And it's a mix of teams thatthey're facing.
You know they're going to befacing off against both of the
(01:14:29):
New York teams and the Rangersare starting to get hot again
but they're also going to befacing off against Utah and
Chicago, which are a little bitweaker.
Of course, last time we sawChicago it wasn't the or no, we
did.
We beat them.
It still wasn't the game wewanted to see, like they should
not have had to go to overtimeagainst a team like chicago.
They pulled it out eventually,but so it's a mix.
(01:14:50):
They're also going to seewinnipeg and winnipeg's one of
the hot you know strong teams inthe league right now.
So it is a mix and it's fourhome games, four away games, two
different two game road trips.
So they have a lot ofopportunity here.
It's not like they're facingthe easiest schedule, but
they're not facing the hardestschedule either.
There's lots of opportunity forthem to get those 12 points or
so in the standing before goinginto the break and feeling good
(01:15:12):
about themselves.
So that's what I'd like to see.
I really just want them toenter the break healthy and with
some extra points.
Healthy is important.
Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Well, for sure and I
agree, and I think if they can
continue to play the way they'replaying right now and they'll
get the goaltending I'm feelingpretty good about that they
should definitely be able to winfive or six games over that
period of time.
I think that would set them upnicely for a final run at the
end of the season.
Things are definitely trendingin the right direction.
(01:15:46):
They've got some areas to workon, as we've discussed, but for
sure we'll be following itclosely and we'll be getting
together again very, very soon.
As always, ladies, it's greatto talk hockey with you, and
we've got lots to be thinkingabout these days with the rumor
mill swirling.
Lots to be thinking about thesedays with the rumor mill
swirling and with, of course,the canes starting to mount some
(01:16:08):
winds.
So, for those of you who havebeen watching or listening, as
always, we thank you very muchfor joining us.
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(01:16:32):
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