Bridging Worlds with Paws: The Journey of a Dog Whisperer from London to Zambia

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Join us on a captivating journey with John Garstang, a human-dog relationship coach whose life is a testament to the transformative power of the bond between humans and their canine friends. From the bustling streets of London to the sun-drenched Greek island of Rhodes, John's story unfolds, revealing his remarkable transition from daycare manager to a beacon of hope for shelter dogs in Zambia. As we navigate through his adventures, we uncover the essence of responsible pet ownership, the cultural nuances of dog-human interactions, and the profound impact of early education in shaping the way we live with our furry companions.
As John takes us through the changing landscapes of Zambia, we're introduced to the heartwarming success stories that emerge from a deeper understanding of canine care and community engagement. His efforts in pairing dogs, establishing routines, and the simple yet significant act of introducing collars and leashes paint a larger picture of a society learning to cherish the joys of responsible adoption. John's dedication to the cause and the celebration of the human element in animal welfare shine through, stirring a dialogue on the ripple effects of positive human-animal relationships across cultural divides.
Wrapping up our exploration, we delve into the intricacies of dog training and the pivotal role of education and empathy in nurturing human-canine relationships. John's anticipation for his upcoming educational app underscores his commitment to spreading knowledge and fostering connections. 
Jon Garstang is a human/dog relationship coach, educational writer, shelter advocate and musician. Having run a dog care service in London for ten years Jon was bitten by the shelter bug whilst helping to run a shelter in Zambia back in 2011. Soon after Jon relocated to Greece where he rehabilitates shelter dogs and has created an education program endorsed by the Greek ministry. Last year Jon won a national award for services to education from the Greek animal welfare society. Jon has also created a free mobile app for anyone who is getting or has a dog. To learn more about Jon visit his Website, follow on

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stories that I have collectedfrom around the world.
I hope you enjoy this episodeand I can't wait to share this

(00:22):
pet story with you.
Hello, my friends and fellowanimal lovers, welcome to
another episode of the Story ofmy Pet podcast.
I am your host, as always,julie Marty Pearson, and I'm
excited to bring you yet anothernew guest to the podcast, some
great new stories that we willbe sharing today.

(00:42):
I want to welcome John Garcingto the podcast.
Hello and welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Hi Julie, Lovely to be here.
Thank you so much for asking meon.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yes, I appreciate you being here, and can you tell
all the listeners where you arecoming from?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, I'm on the Greek island of.
Rhodes in the MediterraneanAegean area.
This is where I live and thisis where I've lived for the past
seven years I.
I can't imagine how amazinglybeautiful that place is, so I
will transport myself in my mindI always say if you ever make
it out of this neck of the woods, just drop me a line and we'll
sort you out I definitely will.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Okay, so I'm gonna tell listeners a little bit
about you.
John is a human dogrelationship coach, educational
writer, shelter, shelteradvocate and musician.
He had a dog daycare service inLondon for 10 years and he got
bitten by the shelter bug I knowthat bug well Whilst helping to
run a shelter in Zambia back in2011.

(01:37):
Soon after he relocated toGreece, as he just said, where
he rehabilitates shelter dogsand has created an education
program endorsed by the GreekMinistry of Education.
That's amazing Teaching youngchildren the importance of
looking after dogs and thelessons we learn from our
relationship to them soimportant.
We've got to educate the kids,because they are the ones that
are going to continue to savethe animals.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Exactly, and when you work in many different
countries, you have to bemindful of cultural aspects.
You have to be mindful of thefact that not all nations have
had onion animals for as long aswe have in the UK and in
America, and you just have to bemindful of that.
And you don't want to go outand preach, but you want to look
at people's natural affinity toworking with dogs and help them
with that and be there toanswer questions if people need

(02:22):
it.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
That's so important and I've even seen that here.
I'm in California and locallythere's areas where they're
canvassing educating peopleabout why spay and neuter is
important, what the benefits are, because sometimes people just
don't understand that littlethings like that are actually
helping your pets live longerand be healthier.
So I can imagine for you,having worked in several
different countries, you'rerunning into cultural
differences that are muchbroader than that.

(02:44):
Before we get into that, haveyou always been an animal lover?
Did you have pets growing up asa child?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, I've had animals since I was very young
and I also was lucky enough towork in riding stables in the
Alps when I was growing up as ateenager, so I spent a lot of
time with horses as well.
I totally fell in love withthem.
So any noble and stunning andyeah, I grew up in a kind of old
school environment where thedogs were generally outside dogs
.
They got the same amount ofaffection and love as any, as

(03:12):
any person could give a dog, andit was a kind of an effort.
There was an effortlessnessabout it was there was no
technical kind of dog trainingstuff.
It was all just very clearabout what we need.
These are boundaries, needclarity, lots of the love and
affection, constantreinforcement, and so there was
no need for trying to get downand technical with all the

(03:32):
aspects of that dog training.
One of the things I hung backto is that I love that kind of
natural symbiosis between humansand companion animals.
I'm a big advocate for that andI really want things to get
back to basics.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I think that's so important because everybody has
their own perspective of whatthat looks like, but a lot of
people need the basics, and thebasics help the dog to be
successful in whateverenvironment they're living in,
whatever family or home orwhatever it has to be.
So you worked, you had a dogdaycare service in London.
How did that come about for youto start that?

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, I started working with dogs in 2005 in
Bristol, a town, a city insouthwestern England, and
initially it was just a question.
I was playing in a band.
Before that, my life was.
I went from playing in like arock band training.
I was training as an actor inLondon.
First I went to playing in aband and all of a sudden my life
completely changed and I neededsome money and I thought what

(04:26):
can I do?
I bumped into this guy in thestreet one day and we just went
chatting because he had a loadof dogs and he could see that I
had a natural affinity to themand I was just super passionate
about me and your nice dogs andhe just offered me a job on the
spot.
Would you like to come and workwith me and I can teach you
everything I know and I canteach you everything I know.

(04:49):
And I was like, yeah, I wasdown for it because I'd just
moved to a new city and I'd lostthe job I'd got because the
company folded.
So I was in a brand new citywith a new flat and no job.
So I thought, yeah, let's giveit a bash.
And what I found early on is Ifound it really easy to build
relationships with the guardians, the families of these dogs,
because when I met them, at theend of every day I would always
tell them exactly what I'd seen,what I'd observed, what I'd

(05:09):
noticed.
And the more I got to knowthese people socially sometimes
or whatever I would see theparallels and aspects of their
characters and how thatmanifested itself in the dog's
behavior.
And having worked as an actorand studied body language and
things like that, I just thoughtthis is so fascinating and it's
really given me a handle intothe way that I observe the
animal and I want to know moreabout that.

(05:30):
So I started to do more aboutpsychology.
I'm from a very affable Irishground, very friendly, and I
just thought all of theseaspects are perfect.
I'm outdoors, I'm with thesewonderful animals, I meet really
nice people that are heavilyinvested in their dog and these
wonderful animals and reallynice people that are heavily
invested in their dog, andthat's what really turned me on
to doing it.
So when I moved to London therewas a huge boom of people
taking dogs out, but I'd noticedit become a real money-making

(05:52):
thing and there was very littleinvestment from the people
towards the owners or thefamilies in this occasion, and I
thought that's a huge part ofthe equation missing.
And that's what led me downthat route and got really
passionate about the not the dogabout the relationship part and
how they work together, thewhole idea of symbiosis no,
that's so important.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
My education's in psychology, so I totally get all
the things you just said, andwhen I volunteered and worked
for a while in a shelter, I sawit too.
I think humans like to look atan animal reacting a certain way
and assume that's how they areall the time.
They don't realize that theirenvironment, just like people,
impacts how they're behaving andreacting and all of that.
And when a dog's in a shelter,for example, they're going to be
acting a certain way because ofit, because of the noise and

(06:34):
the uncertainty, but it's thesame.
When they're put into a home,how does the home set up?
What's the environment, what'sthe family, what are the, the
dynamics?
All of that impacts the dog'sbehavior and it sounds like
that's really what you honed inon and saw the importance of
working with all entire familyto make a dog fit in the way
they need to yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
I 100 with that.
And it's funny because over ingreece the last four or five of
my clients are.
They're either psychoanalystsor psychologists, just quite
pure coincidence.
Sometimes I'm talking to themand I'm not saying don't know
the stuff I'm telling you,because that's surely exactly
what you teach, and they're likeyeah, we do know that, but we
just want to hear it from youbecause you're in a different
area and I'm like you don't needme to tell you any of this
stuff?
It's really basically a lot ofit.

(07:19):
So that's why I'm very reticentand I don't was no remit for
the job I was going to do Afriend of mine who runs Enniford
Ortonage.
She's an absolute legend.
She's called Rachel Merton.
She runs Enniford Ortonage inNational Park in Zambia and she
just called me and said theyneed your help.
John, no one's going to come toSouthern Africa and help these
guys.
But I want to ask you to achallenge.

(07:44):
When I went over, I didn't knowanyone there.
I didn't know anything aboutthe culture.
I was pretty green.
I'd only been working with dogsprofessionally for six years
and no job or course could haveprepared me for that work.
Because I was dealing with theculture, I was dealing with the
sociology, I was dealing withthe police force, I was dealing
with the individual culturalproblems as well, as the dogs

(08:04):
were just a tiny part of theequation.
That's what led me down thatroute, because it's the whole of
the thing that encapsulates themagic of the fact that we have
a relationship with anotherspecies, and I think that, as
long as you always bear that inmind, it means it's always a
source of magic, it's always asource of wonder, and that's why
I continue to love doing thisjob.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, I think it's so important because I think
sometimes we forget they'reanimals, they're sentient beings
, they're impacted by theirexperience and changes and all
of those things that sometimes,oh, it's a dog, it's just going
to do dog things.
Well, maybe it doesn't knowwhat dog things are, and
especially if they're coming offthe street or they're in a
shelter, we don't know alwayswhat their history is.
So in Zambia, were you dealingspecifically with shelter dogs?

(08:43):
What was the situation there?

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well, it was a completely self-funded trip.
I did do a little bit ofprivate training on the side for
people.
I also put on concerts musicconcerts to raise money, but the
job really was.
I had to first of all identifythere was a huge amount of chaos
there.
There's generally a lot ofchaos in shelters and, as you
said directly earlier, behavioris contextual.
By changing the context, bymaking it more stable, giving

(09:08):
them some structure, I knew Icould create a much calmer
environment.
People that are expectingpeople to come off the street,
walk in, pick a dog and leave,and that just wasn't happening,
because as soon as you walked inthere, it was just pandemonium
and it was scary.
A lot of the Zambian culture isa beautiful culture.
It's one of those countries inAfrica where they don't have the
tribal infighting.

(09:29):
It's a very peaceful and safecountry.
A lot of the emerging classeswere starting to really want to
have dogs, but there was nosituation in place that would
inspire them to do this.
What I had to do is make it aplace where people would walk in
and it would be an interestingplace where they could make a
decision about the dogs theywanted.
But the first thing I had to dowas I had to split some of the

(09:53):
groups up.
So dogs, correct dogs with theright dogs to bring the best out
of each other.
Because who's better to teach adog than another dog?
I think I'm constantly.
I always have plenty of dogs atmy disposal because they all
teach different things and youcan use that to advantage so
beautifully if you know how todo that.
So I took certain dogs withother ones and then I made some.
We made some individual kennels, pairs of dogs to go in.

(10:14):
And then we changed the feedinghabits.
We made the feeding verystructured.
I made the handlers learn tospend a few minutes every day
just working with hand feedingand by inhibition and things
like that.
Then we started working on themechanical side, putting collars
on.
Some of these dogs have neverhad a collar on in their life
and next leave without a collaron and be perfect on a leash.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
I have a specific experience of taking an older
puppy out of a kennel at ashelter and putting a leash on
it, and he's what's happening.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
What's happening?
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Because they've never had a weapon before, so all
those things are still importantfor them to get used to.
It sounds like in Zambia therewere really things that maybe
people would think were basic.
But even in any shelterenvironment they don't realize
there are things the dog has toget used to, otherwise they're
not being set up to be a successin whatever family they're
going into.
So that sounds like that's alot of the work you were really

(11:02):
trying to do ahead of time forthe animals in the shelters.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, you've got to be invested in the whole lot.
As we all know and I'llprobably get slapped for saying
this A lot of people that workin animal and dog welfare are
anti-human.
They're like oh look, humansare terrible and I'm so glad I
never get to spend any time withpeople and I'm like all right,
get with me.
Of course I understand whatyou're saying, but if you're
working in a companion animalworld, there's two parts of the

(11:27):
equation there.
It's an important part.
You're missing out on thepercent equation, which is a
huge thing.
You need to be able to sayyou're going to take this dog,
let's talk.
Let me tell you everything Iknow.
Let's have a rapport, even ifwe're not going to go out from
behind or whatever For thepurposes of this environment.

(11:47):
Let's talk and let's get toknow each other and let's chew
the fat and find out what yourexpectations are, and then I can
help you to prepare.
If you're jaded and you'reanti-you, then you're missing a
big part of the equation.
You shouldn't be the firstpoint of contact in a shelter
because you can have this morbididea of well, maybe the dog
should stay in the shelter, itcan spend a bit with that person

(12:07):
.
I just don't find that helpful.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Having been in the environment, it's really easy to
get jaded about people.
Where I live, we have a lot ofdogs that get dumped on the
street or left out in the middleof an acre of trees, so it's
easy to get jaded.
But you're so right when wewant a dog to be successful and
someone's telling you what theyneed in a dog that helps, you
know this isn't going to be theright dog for them, but maybe
this one over here would be, andI can help you figure that out.

(12:30):
So that relationship is reallyimportant.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, exactly Of course.
We're here to serve a purpose.
And if you're going to get intothis world, you need to realize
you're going to see some gnarlystuff.
You're going to see the worstof humanity and you're going to
see the best of humanity.
And that's just the reality.
And if you don't like it, thendon't do something else, because
we need to be working togetherand pulling our resources.
And some people aren't great atthat side of it and that's fine
.
They can do other things.

(12:54):
We just need to be working forthe animal always.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Absolutely so.
Your work in Zambia what weresome of your big takeaways or
maybe your success stories therethat really inspired you?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Well, I love the kind of social aspect and I love the
fact that you can surprise alot of people.
So we did some big fairs,outdoor fairs and music and food
and dancing and stuff, and Iwould bring some dogs from the
shelter to these fairs andtraditionally, a lot of the
people from Zambia they wouldlook at a lot of the kind of
oppressive white people ashaving dogs as a god or an

(13:29):
aggressive thing.
And luckily, when I was overthere, that culture was shifting
.
People were becoming a lot moreinclusive and you'd find that a
lot of the Zambians were reallyinterested to form a
relationship with dogs for thefirst time and that was just
gorgeous, just being in a placeand watching people's fear
dissipate in front of your eyesas you.

(13:49):
Because when you're doingsomething like that and I teach
in schools a lot you have to getthe person to focus on, and I
always say this when people arewalking and they're a bit if
they're worried about someone,I'm like don't think, okay,
that's a certain breed and it'scoming this way.
Look at the relationshipbetween that dog and the person
that has it.
How are they interactingtogether?
Do they look like a unit?
Are they looking at each other?
Are they checking with eachother?
Is affection there?

(14:11):
So if the person if I've gotthree, four dogs on a leash in a
fair in zambia and I'm likesuper chilled and friendly and
hey there, do you want to comeand say hi?
You don't have to look at mylittle tails wagging come and
say hi.
And if you can bowl them overwith that kind of that kind of
enthusiasm and you're justclearly in control, then you can
really you can make a bigimpact on the way people see
things.
And that was a huge thing forme.

(14:31):
It was like watching theculture generally shift almost
in front of my eyes.
And it's been a very similarexperience in Greece as well,
because in the seven years I'vebeen here, the change in
attitude has been unbelievableand that's the big thing to me.
It's the cultural, sociologicalelement of it as well as the
microcosmic, just the dog thing.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, I think that was the kicker for me and
obviously just being in abeautiful country and getting to
hang around with dogs all day,no, that sounds like such a
powerful experience because foryou to get to see firsthand that
shift in people realizing thesedogs are not just scary
security beings, that they'reactually soulful animals that
want to be a part of your lifeand can connect with you in a
way that a lot of people maybehave never experienced before,
so that's really powerful yeah,absolutely so.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, that's one thing you do recognize and
you'll know this from your jobthat as much as we're different,
we're the same and all peoplereally need is just a really
gentle helping hand, and you'regenerally telling people things
that they already know you just.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
You just need a reminder or to have someone else
say it.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
They often need a reframe sometimes, and the use
of metaphor is very important inmy work because it's about
getting that framing in and themetaphors you use are different
depending on the person you'respeaking to.
Right, it's always useful tohave I've dealt with hundreds of
people from so many differentcountries now.
It's a lot of fun.
It's a little game for me totry and work on little things
that make the light bulb come onand I can almost see it happen

(15:52):
and that's just a huge thing tome because I know that once they
know certain things, they can'tunknow them and you've changed
everything just with getting theright, just saying the right
thing at the right time.
So that's a really fun gameyeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
It sounds like, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts,
but it's really.
It really something you reallyenjoy the process of getting all
the pieces in the right place.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, because no two jobs are the same.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Absolutely Because, yeah, because no, two dogs are
the same right.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
No, exactly.
They're as idiosyncratic as weare.
We compartmentalize things inlife to help make sense of the
word, to be honest, but inreality there's a lot going on.
Bottom line is, it's all aboutgetting the foundations correct,
and, and and the kind ofclarity that we have in our own
mind is key to everything,because without clarity, we
cannot expect anything that'sconnected to us, whether it be a

(16:37):
person or a kid or a dog, tohave a flu to what we want dogs
pick up on our anxiety and fearand all those things really fast
.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Sometimes they pick up on it before we even realize
we're having that feeling.
So that can really impact yourrelationship with an animal if
you don't realize that.
You have to be aware of howyou're feeling and how you're
putting that off on the animaland your relationship.
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Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I've been working for the last year on a course
and an app because I keptgetting asked by organizations
and individuals whether Icrystallize some of this stuff.
So I decided to make.
I'm in the process of makingthat.
In the next maybe three or fourweeks it should come out in an
app, an application.
It's a free.
It's a free resource.
I want to give it to anyonewho's interested in my teaching
because it's just going to belike seven videos.

(18:51):
It's more kind of aboutphilosophy than anything else.
There's a little bit ofmechanics in there and stuff
like that, but it's justbasically saying look, just have
this and this is my hippy-dippystyle of human-dog
relationships and it's workedall over the world and just have
it, take it, watch the videos,and if it works, then I'm
ecstatic.
And how long does it take me tomake a few videos?
No time.
And so I just thought thatcould be a gift, and when it

(19:13):
comes out, I just want all thepeople that can't afford a dog
trainer there's no one thatlives near them.
There's such a plethora ofdifferent information online.
If you go on YouTube, you'regoing to get 10 different people
telling you 10 different things.
But it's really important toprotect the dog, then people who
are advocating fear and painand stuff should be shown to be
doing that, and it should becrystal clear.

(19:35):
I just feel like there arefundamental truths that are not
just necessarily about dogs.
They're about relationships ingeneral.
You might talk to your bestfriend who might be in their 40s
and they've fallen out withtheir husband and you might say
have you tried talking to him?
Do you have to tell that to anadult about someone that's been
in?
a relationship for 20 years Didyou try talking to them about
the thing and they're like oh, Ididn't think of that, it's

(19:55):
boneless.
I want to create a resource forpeople, so I got involved with
an organization called InterRescue, inter Dogs it's a famous
dog training Inter Dogs, andI'm part of the Inter Rescue
group as a kind of ambassador,because my approach in my work
is it's not something you canstudy, because it's all about
sociology, it's anthology andit's all about the relationship

(20:16):
rather than the dog.
You read hundreds of books, butif you want to do the kind of
stuff that I do, you can't learnit really.
You have to do it and see whatfits for you.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I think that's important.
I think people think they canread a book.
I think that's important.
I think people think they canread a book or maybe, and
they're like, okay, I get it.
No, you've got to interact withthe animal to learn it Because,
like we've said, every animalis different.
Every approach may be different, where they've come from, or
you don't know where they'vecome from, and you've got to
feel that and you become morecomfortable once you have that
actual physical interaction.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, that's completely true, and we have to
remember about the slightly morecerebral, abstract.
Yeah, that's completely true,and we have to remember about
the slightly more cerebral,abstract things when it comes to
working with dogs, and that'swhat I'm really interested in.
It's a bit like if you dosomething all the time, your
instinct becomes more refined.
I always think of it a bit likea muscle.
If you don't use it, then itwill atrophy and then you won't

(21:06):
know how to act in a certainarea.
When you're working with dogsin a pack, or if you're out and
you're doing training you need.
If you get a tickle at thestomach that says something's
not right, you better listen tothat and you better be ready to
stop it before it happens.
Generally with dogs, you stopthings before they happen you
anticipate well you read thesignals because they're
whispering to us.
They're whispering to usconstantly and we need to learn
how to listen to the whisper sowe don't have to listen to them
when they how or I'm reallyuncomfortable.

(21:28):
Now it's really important to dothat, and the only way you can
do that is just like putting inthose thousands of hours and
enjoying it, and I was doingabout 26 hours a week in London
with maybe 80 or 90 differentdogs every week, and it was the
best way to understand about howdogs work en masse.
You need to have a.
I've got enough dogs that I canuse and I can pull on certain

(21:52):
dogs to play a role for me and Ilove it.
I'll call up the family and I'mlike, hey, can I borrow your dog
tomorrow?
And they're like what?
I'm like, yeah, I want to usehim to rehabilitate this dog
from the cause he's.
I've got this aggressive maleand then I've got a big, funky,
flopped male.
He's never going to fight backand and the dog?

(22:13):
It can, really it can come onleaps and bounds.
There's so much good stuff youcan do if you have access to
simple dogs.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, I think that's so important for animals because
, especially if they're veryanxious or unsure, they just
need reassurance and they can'talways get it from us.
It's a vibe they get from theother dog that really helps them
stay calm and feel safe.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, so that's.
I've got a property here in themountains in Greece.
I take a lot, I do a lot ofrehab work.
I've maybe done, I've mayberehabilitated about 30 dogs.
I'll have them come over andthey normally come into my
environment.
I'm like, okay, well, I'm goingto let the environment and the
dogs I already have do the work.
Now All I'm going to do isfacilitate it and give you lots

(22:53):
of cuddles, but most of thework's going to be done by the
other dogs and boundary settingand just making them aware,
learning manners, and when thesedogs end up in Finland or
Germany or Britain or whereverI've sent dogs all over the
place it's just wonderful tohear that they're assimilated
already and they're good to go.
As you say in America, they'regood to go.
They just land in the countryand they're running.

(23:14):
It's a great feeling.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, and it's so important I hear it a lot.
We have to set them up forsuccess, then.
Otherwise, why are you puttingthe money and time into getting
a pet if you're not wanting themprepared for the best whenever
they need?
You want them to be in the bestsetup as possible and have an
amazing dog in your family.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I like.
Your choice of language is finefor me because the course that
I've been working on for everyyear probably I don't know how
many dog actors in it, maybe 40dogs I'm using the same language
.
The first section of the courseis set yourself up for success.
Create the environments thatyou don't.
You're not about peddling.
You're more like.
If you're going to be in thissituation, you want a dog to
come to your family.
You need to really put the timeand effort in.
I'm not talking about breakingyour back or breaking your bank

(23:58):
account, right, it's aboutgetting your head and sitting
down with your family.
What do we expect out of thisrelationship?
Yes, and getting us up excitedabout it, but also making sure
that when the dog comes along,it's it can seamlessly fit into
what you're doing and you canenjoy the process, because that
is just right yeah, preparationis so important because
ultimately, that's what you wantyou want a happy dog and you
want to be happy and you wantjust to have a great experience
with that new family member.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
So you mentioned something when we first started
talking about what you wererehabbing a working dog.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Because where I live inCalifornia, unfortunately we
have a lot of working dogs.
We have a lot of GermanShepherds and Huskies in our
shelters and, as you can imagine, they're not getting exercise

(24:41):
and they go into a home andthey're not prepared for the
kind of what they need to besuccessful.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
So can you talk a little bit about that?
I think that's important.
Yeah, I think when it comes tothings like that, a lot of
shelters are just so anxious toget the dogs out there that they
don't do the vetting processproperly.
And I have a very simple ideawith vetting.
I just say think about thequestions the person who's
taking the dog are asking,because people think, oh, I've
built another kid, so I knowwhat I'm doing.
That's just nonsense.
It's like saying I'll bemarried five times.
Does that mean you're good atmarriage?
This doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
You want that kind of humility on the person and
that's going to tell you a bigstory, and I also think what I
found so much that's sofrustrating is people look at a
dog, say, oh, that's a, thisbreed, they're going to be like
this.
Well, it doesn't really workthat way.
Every dog is different and I'velearned so much in shelters.
You cannot decide what a breedis by looking at them, because
you're usually going to be wrong.
So the stereotypes need to bethrown out the window and you

(25:22):
need to deal with that dog andtheir personality and their
temperament and move forwardfrom there yeah, you've got to
be, you've got to be open andyou've got to be ready for sure
and realize that.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Coming back to the point from earlier we were
making about the context beingkey, you want to make the
context and the environmentindicative to a happy, gentle,
secure and feeling dog, becausethat's that, end of the day, is
our job.
Our job is to make them feelsecure and safe before we do
anything else.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
That is literally the foundation stone in my
philosophy it's so importantbecause I think sometimes people
think that means physicalactivity and, yes, dogs need
that.
But what you're saying?
They also need their brainexercise, enrichment activity, a
puzzle to get to some treats,or working with them with
different cues.
It doesn't even have to beverbal.
It's important because, justlike us, if we don't read or
listen to music, our brain's notgoing to work.

(26:06):
We have to exercise our ownbrains and dogs are the same way
.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think the point is it's a bit
like a pressing instrument.
You give people unrealistictargets.
They're not going to doanything.
What I do is I give them fiveminute exercises and I'm like,
but you're going to do the fiveminute exercises twice a day and
what you find is the exercisesare actually conditioning the
person as much as a dog, becausewhat you're doing is you're
teaching the person to noticethings they wouldn't otherwise

(26:30):
notice.
You do this kind of stuff asmuch.
You see constantly things thatneed to be reinforced because
you want the dog to know that.
You want the frequency of thatbehavior to increase.
Therefore, you're constantlyseeing things and dogs.
They go.
They love it.
If a dog in the street walkspast me and glances up at me in
a kind of fight or jump way ofgoing, I know you're sorry.

(26:52):
And when it does happen.
It's crazy how much it happens.
I'll do the same to them.
I'll be like, yes, and ifyou're in a cafe or something
and the dog will really notice,I teach people to do crazy stuff
.
Like, if you've got a puppy,just play games with it, do
stuff and watch how it, becausepeople don't think that's my dog
, I'm going to feed it, I'mgoing to walk it, you can.
If you want to really createchemistry, chemistry, yes, you

(27:15):
can do almost like harrypotter's kind of stuff with your
dog.
A connection style you need eyecontact is so important it's
massively.
I was.
I was made.
The dogs are like men.
I'm like dogs are like men.
If they're looking, they'reprobably thinking about you.
If they're not looking at you,probably not thinking about you
they're thinking about whateverthey're hearing in the

Speaker 1 (27:32):
background exactly absolutely well.
It sounds like what you'recreating for your app is going
to be great, and so hopefully,by the time this episode comes
out, I can share that witheveryone so they can utilize all
of your years of experience tohelp them with their own dogs.
I think that's an amazing toolto have because, like you said,
not everybody can affordtraining or has access, and so
to have a really easy,step-by-step, quick thing that

(27:54):
they can do and start doingevery day with their own dogs is
really valuable, so it soundslike that'll be a really great
tool for people to have yeah,and I've been in so many
situations where people areembarrassed to ask questions and
stuff and not realizing that Ilove answering these questions
because I love my work andthat's what.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
That's what led me to that, to the education program
in which the kids and thegeneration younger, the, the
people in their twenties,getting dogs.
They could see that all thischaining up of animals and
leaving them on the balcony hasnever taken them out was just
unacceptable and it was creatingthese really messed up animals.

(28:30):
And when I came to the islandand I started working with a few
dogs, people thought it was analien or something, because this
guy had this control over thesedogs.
And I'm like do you know whatit's?
Because I'm kind to them, I'mclear with them and I tell them
unequivocally what I want fromthem and then I show them that I
love what they do.
It's nothing more complicatedthan that and I was getting a
bit of traction with that.

(28:51):
And then I realized that theonly way I was going to make any
headway here was by gettinginto the school.
So I wrote a book and I wasquite a bit of a wimp.
I was quite unfortunate for itto get into the right hands and
eventually ended up in thenational curriculum.
It was about all the softskills we learn when we have a
dog Just being empathetic, beingconsistent, being kind,

(29:12):
noticing how someone else isstealing, and it's been a real
success.
And I'm actually lecturing atthe university next with my dog
for a load of students who wantto promote the project.
It's all about peace and love,because it's not.
It doesn't have to beunbelievably complicated and
technical.
It's really basic stuff and itshould be, should come from a
cerebral place, but it shouldalso come from the heart and the

(29:32):
gut and all those things aswell, because that's the whole
point and there's no point indoing all this stuff and have
all those magical moments.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Absolutely and I think so important what you said
about teaching the kids,because they learn now what
responsible pet ownership is,what building a connection with
your pet and understanding themand having those important
relationships with them.
They learn it now.
They're going to help us in thefuture and hopefully we won't
have as many dogs in shelters.
And they're going to help us inthe future and hopefully we
won't have as many dogs inshelters and they're going to be
taking care of them and reallycommitted to them and having

(30:00):
them in their family.
So it's so important for thekids to be educated and it
sounds like you're doing justthat and really helping to put
out your message as much aspossible.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
I'm giving it a bash, I'm doing my best.
I'm trying to because of thesituation and the experience of
working in those two places.
My real ambition, my grandambition, is to try and create
an international template ofinformation resources that you
can go to a governmentdepartment, you can give a video
library to all the shelters, Ican give my education program to

(30:29):
any country with the slideshowsand the videos and the theatre
role plays, and then you createyou dialogue between shelters
and education institutions.
They become more.
I feel like that's the tempo.
I'm quite close to finishing.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I just want to, not just ambition.
No, that's great, so important,so important.
Obviously, the important withevery dog is important, but
being able to spread it on amass like that that people can
pick up and initiate in theirarea, in their shelters, and all
of that is so important.
Sounds like you're doingamazing work and I appreciate
your time and thank you so muchfor being here.
I know the listeners are goingto get a lot out of this
conversation, so I just want tothank you for coming on and

(31:05):
telling us your story and reallysharing a lot of great tips and
tricks, but also justunderstanding the importance of
building that relationship withour pets.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
No worries, it's a pleasure, julia.
It's a pleasure, julia.
I love what you do as well.
You're spreading these wordsout and getting people
interested in the topic andcreating dialogue.
That's what we need.
We need people to be talkingand sharing the passion that we
have, and hopefully it'll makethe world a better place.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, my friend, for beinghere and listening to this
episode of the Story of my Petpodcast.
I hope you were inspired andtouched by this amazing pet
story and I hope you come backto listen to more episodes soon.

(31:48):
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(32:11):
Thank you so much for beinghere and much love to you and
your pets.