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June 17, 2025 74 mins

What if everything you think you know about emotion and decision-making is backwards? Michael McRay sits down with Lisa Cron, the brilliant mind behind "Wired for Story" and "Story or Die," to unpack the revolutionary science showing that emotion isn't the enemy of logic—it's actually running the show. Lisa reveals how her fascination with story began in the most unlikely place: analyzing subway advertisements during her daily commute in New York, studying which ones made her want to buy versus which ones made her roll her eyes. This conversation demolishes the myth that we're rational beings who sometimes feel, exposing the truth that we're feeling beings who rationalize everything. Lisa explains why your brain treats every story like virtual reality and why vulnerability isn't just nice to have in storytelling—it's the neurological key that unlocks human connection. In this episode, they discuss:

  • How emotion functions as the brain's decision-making system, not an obstacle to rational thought
  • Why vulnerability is essential for creating connection and trust in any story
  • How story serves as humanity's first virtual reality system for survival learning
  • Why specific details create universal connection while generalities lose audiences entirely

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