March 16, 2022 • 38 mins
Marsha Shandur has a flip phone and all kinds of social media blockers...yet she still manages to not go to bed at a decent hour. Kelsey and Marsha discuss time for yourself after kids are down, the allure of old Sex and the City and Seinfeld episodes, and how even locking yourself out of social media doesn't help us go to bed earlier.
All of the resources mentioned in this episode can be found here: https://www.yesyesmarsha.com/storyshout/
To learn more about StoryShout podcast advertising opportunities and guest openings, visit us at StoryShout.co
And don’t forget to leave us a review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever else you listen to podcasts.
You can also connect with @StoryShout on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Kelsey is @wonderwall7 on Twitter.
To learn more about StoryShout podcast advertising opportunities and guest openings, visit us at StoryShout.co
And don’t forget to leave us a review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever else you listen to podcasts.
You can also connect with @StoryShout on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Kelsey is @wonderwall7 on Twitter.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:03):
You're listening to the story shout podcast hosted by
Kelsey Jones. We're a weeklypodcast dedicated to
destigmatizing failure andlaughing at our normalcy. Don't
forget to subscribe and leave areview on iTunes.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Storyshout. My name is Kelsey Jones.
(00:24):
And I'm so excited to be heretoday with Marsha Shan door. She
is a storytelling and KeynoteCoach and Trainer from Yesus.
Marsha, Marsha, thank you somuch for joining me.
Thank you for having me. This isgoing to be so fun.
I know. I'm so excited to talkabout what do you suck at today?
I well, I suck at it. I wouldsay I have a gift for not being
(00:47):
able to go to bed at a decenthour.
A gift. Wow, that'sjust really good at it. Yeah.
So what's okay, what is a decenthour to you, because if you
asked my husband and decenthours at midnight, and that is
not a decent hour to me.
So it's changed a lot over theyears. Like, I feel like one of
(01:09):
my dream jobs in terms of mywhat I like for my hours was I
used to have a radio show onetill 3am. So I would get to bed
at four. Everybody was asleep,like no one was awake. This was
kind of before the Ubik. Likebefore we had the internet on
our phones. So I would usuallyget to sleep at four and then
I'd wake up at 12. That wasgreat. And then, you know, I
(01:29):
started going more in the otherdirection. And then four and a
half years ago, my girlfriend atthe time had a baby. And so then
it really shifted. So thensuddenly, because she was waking
up at five or six every morningand often several times in
between going to bed anythinglater than kind of 930 or 10
seemed scandalous. I mean, weoften did. But then eight months
(01:54):
ago, I found myself like my myex and I you know broke up and
decided to live in differenthouses. And so we now don't have
the kids every night. And and Iwas like this is like I'm now a
morning person I would I wouldget up with her every morning.
So I was like five or six everysingle morning. And I was like
this is great. This is what I'vealways wanted. I've always
wanted to be an early morningperson, I've always wanted to be
(02:15):
someone who's in bed by 930 or10 every night. But it just
hasn't happened. I just snuckback into my old ways. And with
a new fun bonus, now that I havea sleep thing where I fall
asleep fine. But once if I wakeup at around five, I'm basically
awake for the rest of the day.
And so if I want to not be acomplete zombie, I have to try
and be in bed by 930 and asleepby 10. And, and yet, Kelsey, and
(02:38):
yet, it doesn't happen. Or whenI or when the kid is here and I
know she's gonna wake me up. Imean, it's a little just in the
last six months shifted that nowshe's waking up at sort of six
630 It's a little bit morereasonable. But I just last
night was a perfect example. Iwas like, Okay, I'm gonna after
(03:00):
a bit, I'm not gonna watch anyTV, I'm not going to go on the
internet. I'm going to clean upthe house. I'm going to do a
couple of other things. Maybe Ihave a little read in bed. And
I'll be asleep by 930. And thenI was like, maybe I'll be asleep
by nine. And then I went and Iwatched not even anything good.
I watched you old. I've beencomfort watching old Sex in the
(03:21):
City recently, I kind of did itbefore the new ones came along.
And then of course now I'mwatching the new ones as well.
And I watched like two oldepisodes of sex and see but I
even like fast forwarded throughbits of it because it's like
this is I know it's gonnahappen. Charlotte is going to
get caught out because she wenton two dates in one night and
and then I just and then ofcourse I had to do all the
things that I still had to do.
(03:43):
And it's like after 11am gettinginto bed being like, I don't if
you swear on your podcast, I'mgoing to not sweat just like
what the eff is wrong with you.
AndI that happens to me and I get
so mad. I was just talking to mysister in law I love reading
always have. But lately and Idon't know if it's because of
the pandemic and like this ishow I'm coping or something. I
(04:06):
just want to zone now. And I'vebeen reading as much I've just
been scrolling on tick tock. Idon't know if you're on tick
tock, but don't get on tick tockbedtimes gonna be even worse. I
don't want to enable you to stayfar away. But it's so funny on
that app. Like, the videos arehonestly so funny. And it's just
like a joy. It's just such it'ssocial media to actually like,
(04:28):
makes me laugh and makes me youknow, feel like good, I guess
which probably still isn'tright. But anyway, that's what
I've been doing the last fewmonths is all get on tick tock,
and then an hour's past hour anda half and then it's like you
said I try to have the samebedtime as you're saying, but
then it's like 1111 30 And thenmy husband, like I mentioned he
likes to stay up way later. Likehe'll come ask me at 1030 If I
(04:52):
want to watch a show or a movieI'm like, Are you insane? Your
mind is telling 30 And he looksat me, like what? If it is nine
or after I'm done. You can't askme to do anything, but I tell
him that but to his credit, I'mup in bed scrolling Tik Tok. So
it's not a completelyunreasonable request from him.
(05:14):
ButI didn't get on Tiktok for that
exact reason, because the onetime I tried it, I lost like
three hours or something. Butlet me tell you all the things I
put in place. So usually, Iclearly didn't do it last night.
But I usually set or use, I havea Mac. So I use self control app
on my computer. And I usuallyset it usually sometimes during
my work day, because that's whenI haven't gone into the like,
(05:37):
hypnotic hour. I locked myselfout of all of the TV platforms I
have, and Facebook andInstagram, and BBC News and The
Guardian and CBC News becauseI'm like, Well, I'm just gonna
look at CBC it's news. This isimportant. But then, you know, I
have to read every single story.
(05:57):
I was reading a lot of ask Pollywho this lady had the hair,
Heather have valesky does anamazing advice column. It's now
on substellar. I locked myselfout of New York Magazine out of
the cut magazine, because she'son it. And so I would lock
myself out of all of thosethings far in advance. And if
I'm really smart, I do it. So italso locks me out for the first
two or three hours in themorning. And then I got freedom
(06:20):
app on my so so that's ThingNumber One Thing Number two, I
have a flip phone. So I have asmart I have an iPhone with no
SIM card in it. Because I wantedone for apps and to be able to
take pictures. But on my iPhone,I don't have that the only time
I have the Instagram app is Idownload it if I want to upload
pictures of stories, and then Idelete it afterwards. I mean,
and then I scroll for two hoursand I delete it afterwards. But
(06:41):
the mostly the way I accessInstagram is through the browser
on my phone. And I do it throughthe incognito browser so that
all like through the safariprivate browser, so that it will
automatically log me out as soonas I'm done. And I don't have
Facebook as we have to doFacebook through the browser,
which crashes all the time andmy phone doesn't know my
facebook password either. I haveto type it in manually every
(07:02):
time I don't have the email app.
Again, I have to do it throughthe browser. And the browser
isn't even an icon I can clickon I found a way where you can
hide you can have no Safaribrowser, so you have to like do
spotlight search and thenpretend to search something and
then go in and do like there'sso many steps. And yet, Kelsey
and yeah, and and I boughtfreedom app, which is supposed
(07:24):
to lock you out of things onyour phone, but I haven't quite
figured it out yet. But I evenlast night so I now the only way
we managed to get my kid tobrush her teeth is to show her a
movie on YouTube kids. So shewatched the movie about brushing
teeth and she brushed her teethso I can't lock my realize I
can't lock myself out things forthat reason. But I had a
(07:44):
WhatsApp message from someone.
So I was like I am going to whenI get out of her room. I am
going to go and listen to that Irun a storytelling shown it's
one of my storytellers. So Iknew it was timely. Like, I'm
going to go, I'm going to listento the WhatsApp message. Then
I'm going to do the washing up.
I have a really exciting podcastI'm listening to at the moment
called passenger list. It's likea thriller about a missing
plane. And I'm like I'm going todo the dishes. I'm going to
(08:10):
listen to the passenger list.
But what did I do? I came out Ididn't even look at bloody
WhatsApp. I picked up my phone.
I carried it to the couch and Isat down and I speed watched two
episodes of Sex in the City thatI probably watched not that long
ago if I still remember whathappens in right, which I did.
And I don't know what it Yeah,it's so it's so weird. Like the
siren and often even I'm doingas I'm doing it as I'm punching
(08:33):
in instagram.com Because I haveto do it that way. There's a
tiny little voice that's goingI know why.
But I'm just like, Shut up voiceI deserve this. This is always
it's like I deserve this. Idon't I do not work hard like
(08:54):
I've one of the best jobs in theworld. I don't work hard. Then
with my kids like I love beingwith with my kids. Like I miss
her every second she's not here.
But the silver lining is thatwhen she's here I'm like, fully
focused. I have a great time.
I'm just delighted by every tinything she does, and so I don't
deserveit. So okay, I have a few things
to comment on first, tick tock.
(09:22):
After you scroll for an hour,this alert pops up and it says
hey, you've been scrolling for awhile you should take drink some
water. The speed at which myfinger flicks that video off.
Get out of here I don't want toknow about water. I don't want
to know that I've been on thisapp for an hour I get so mad at
(09:42):
the person's face. It's probablysome poor employee at tick tock.
I scroll the fastest I've everflicked a you know on a screen
and and so I and I'm like youtoo I go to so on my phone I
have folders that have by top SoI have like a social media
folder. So I have to cope withthat. And I have to open Tik
(10:04):
Tok. And like, I'm like you asI'm doing it, it's like No, get
out of there. You shouldn't openTik Tok, you need to open your
books app and finish your book,The One stupid book you've been
trying to read for three months.
And I'm the same voice talks tome and I, I don't know, I think
it's like a serotonin rush ordopamine rush or whatever they
say like social media, you getit faster, at least for reading.
(10:27):
It's like it's more of a longburn of satisfaction, maybe I
don't know. And, and I thinktoo, I use social media as a way
to connect with people,especially people that I don't
see a lot or because of thepandemic, maybe we haven't seen
each other like I have a cousin.
I'm really close to you thatlives. A six hours drive away
(10:52):
from me, I Midwestern in the USso we measure distances by how
long it takes you to drivesomewhere. So six hour drive,
which is pretty far and then mybrother's a two hour drive. So
him and I and my cousin alwaysshare tick tock videos with each
other, like almost every day. SoI think that's a way of me like
(11:12):
connecting. And this is what I'mtelling myself is like that's a
way of connecting with thesocial media, in terms of like
just binging on shows like youwere saying, I think I found
myself lately like there's somany great shows on on today,
just like across all the appslike everybody's like, have you
seen this? Have you seen this?
You know, people are winningEmmys whatever, I always want to
(11:33):
watch reality TV, just like giveme the worst trash of people
arguing or something I've seen amillion times i i Like Sex in
the City. But Seinfeld is one ofmy favorite shows of all time.
So all rewatch Seinfeld. And Ithink what it is, is my brain
just wants to turn off. Becauseyou know, I have a team of
(11:54):
people that I manage, I just, Ijust want my brain to be turned
off. It's kind of like junk foodfor my for my brain is what I
tell my husband. I don't want towatch them like a you know, some
long saga. It took me forever toget through like Breaking Bad
because it's such like, that'sall you can focus on. It's very
dark. I'd rather just like turnmy brain off. And I yeah, I
(12:15):
don't think that's healthy. ButI that's what I I don't know.
I think it is, I think I don'tthink it's unhealthy. And I
think part of the thing here isthat all of these things are
true, right? You are connectingwith your family. You know,
Twitter and Instagram is sofunny. Somebody posted on
Instagram the other day, I thinkit was my friend Jess, one of
(12:37):
her things is I love you themonsters. And she posted and
said it was something liketherapy isn't around dealing
with the root of your problems.
Therapy is about making makingyour therapy making your
therapist convinced that you'retheir favorite. And I loved
because I'm so convinced that Iam my therapist. Like I told my
therapist about that meme, but Iwas like don't comment, don't
(13:00):
comment I don't. And you know,somebody posted something the
other day it was like it was onTwitter, but it was a bit of so
I even deleted my Twitteraccount. I did that thing where
they're like you can come backin a year if you want. So I
haven't committed to it but Istill go and look at other
people's Twitter's and somebodyposted this guy is a Wednesday
man and he just repost thefunniest stuff and some that
there was some research thatShakespeare had like maybe
(13:23):
smoked weed when he was writing.
And the person who quoted itwrote To be or not to be what
was the question? Me love forlike an hour. And I also will
screenshot those I have, youknow, my mom and then another
friend who are not on Twitterand not on Instagram, so I will
screenshot the best ones andsend those. And, and I think
that that's true. You know, atthe end of the day, we've been
(13:45):
challenged like part of me withSex in the City. I generally
have been trying over the lastfew years to be influenced by my
by my ex by my co parent who'svery good at this and thinking
Okay, where am I spending myleisure time? Where am I? What
am I listening to? What am Ireading? What am I watching on
TV? And is it all whites, thisnon disabled people like me, you
know, is it straight? I'm notstraight, but I code straight to
(14:07):
people. So I didn't I haven'texperienced I mean, I'm a queer
parent, and I'm a non bioparent, but I haven't
experienced most of theoppressions that queer queer
people have. And so I've beentrying to watch stuff, even if
it's something like blackish youknow, that's so funny. So like
most of the time and but when Idon't want to be challenged at
all, it's when I want to watchsomething I've watched 1000
(14:28):
times and maybe that's friendsall right now I'm like single
and I'm so far away from beingready to date. But I'm also very
interested in other people thateating so that's why I'm
watching Sex in the City becauseI'm like, I want to I don't want
to do any of this stuff myself,but I really want to live
vicariously through even thoughthey're all straight people, you
know, having heterosexualrelationships apart from one
instance, and and Stanford. ButI think it's like, we don't have
(14:54):
the capacity to watch anythingnew. And so that's why you're
watching Seinfeld and that's whyI'm watching Sex in the City and
friends even I'm like, yes, it'sproblematic. I should be using
my time better. But I think Idon't think it's bad inherently,
I think What's bad is when I Awhen we're when there's other
things that we want to be doing.
And we're doing it at theexpense of those be when we're
(15:14):
just getting hypnotically kindof sucked into staying up way
too late. And we're makingourselves miserable. And see
when we're not even totallyenjoying it, because part of us
is thinking that dishes are nextdoor and you still have to do
them, you're going to get wokenup at 6am by a small boys gang
man. And you can't ignore thatsmall voice and so, but I think
(15:38):
yeah, I think in a dream world,because there's definitely been
times where I've been like, I'mhaving a really rough day, I am
going to sit down and I'm goingto watch for, you know, two
hours of friends, I'm going towatch for four or five friends
episodes. And you know, I'mgoing to eat whatever this food
and I'm going to sit and I'm,and I'm sitting there being
like, God, this is the best. Mylife is amazing that I get to do
(16:01):
that, you know, and that's veryintentional. I got really I had
get stopped reality TV foryears. And then I hit it hard
around the time of my breakup.
And it was a lifesaver, like,because I just did a deep dive
into love is blind and thecircle. And I got a break from
having to think about thisdifficult situation that I was
(16:23):
in, because I just wascompletely obsessed with
everybody else'smanufacture difficult
situations, right. And so Ithink there's, I think there is
real benefit in them. But Ithink it's like in the dream
world, we every night, we wouldbe saying, Okay, I'm going to
spend 20 minutes dicking around,and then I'm going to go do this
this. And actually, I think in adream world, I would just get
(16:44):
those dishes done soon. Butthere's some, for some reason,
as soon as I come out my kidsbedroom, the siren song of the
dicking around is so loud. Iinvented an app, which doesn't
exist. So if anybody makes apps,please make this up. I did. I've
told a couple of people aboutit. And they've said they might
but they haven't yet. But it'scalled SFA which stands for stop
(17:05):
effing around. And you tell itwhich websites just like self
control app, you tell it whichway or freedom you tell it which
websites. And then what happensis as soon as you go on those
websites, a big red timer in thecorner starts up and shows you
how long you've been on, itdoesn't go away. And then every
five minutes it goes. And thenlike every half an hour it goes
(17:28):
something like so annoying,right? Because the other thing
is often with Facebook, it'slike I have to go post this
thing for work, I have to gocheck this thing. And then it's
like, oh, seven notifications.
And then 45 minutes later, andthen I panic log out. And then I
couldn't even do the thing.
I know that happens to me allthe time. I so I agree with
(17:52):
everything you're saying. We aretalking about the siren song of
dicking around I so I read itwas probably a meme or something
that people are saying forparents especially so I have a
son, he's three and a half. Andfor parents especially, and
especially working parents evenmore not that, you know, being
at home as an a job. I'm notsaying that at all. But just
(18:13):
like having the mental brain ofanother project besides at home.
Whenever we finally put our kidsto bed or whatever. It's almost
like you want to fight againstdoing the things that you need
to do because you've done thethings that you needed to do the
entire day. So, you know, forthe most part most of us you
(18:35):
know during the day we do allour meetings, we do all our due
dates or whatever we managepeople from need to met, manage
if you're if you're working inthe home, maybe you completed a
project or all these errands orbills you had to pay I don't
know. And then when you finallyhave the time to yourself at
night, you are like fightingagainst having to do something
(18:56):
else, even if it's self care orlike beneficial to you. Like
sometimes this is so bad. And Iprobably shouldn't admit this on
like a public forum butsometimes even like showering or
taking a bath like not that I'mlike beyond help or you know,
have a hygiene issue, but I'mlike I really need to shower but
like today, I know we're nevergonna let this video today. I
(19:18):
haven't I haven't washed my hairin like three or four days and I
really find hair so I need to bewashed yet last night. Nope. did
not do that watched a show withmy husband and laid in bed and I
mean, it's just fighting againstlike what you feel like you have
to do I guessI think it's the shoulds and I
think that all makes sense interms of being a parent or
working parent but absolutelythis was my experience before I
(19:40):
mean I have a 17 year oldstepson and he does he's
actually my my very veryinteresting parenting so he's my
ex is my other exes kid and sohe does he a pre pandemic he
would do three nights with eachparent and one night with me so
I only had him one night a week.
and the rest of the time or whenI was with the ex, you know, I
(20:03):
would be there for whateverthree nights of the week, the
rest of the time, I didn't haveit. But I did, I still dicked
around like I still, that's whyI loved having the work at the
end of the day when it was beingon a radio show, which is a
super easy and fun job. Becauseit meant that there was no I
wasn't, there was no likecapacity for dicking around
because I didn't have a phone, Icould lie in bed and be on
Instagram in because it waswhatever the mid 2000s. And I
(20:25):
just kind of want the choice. Imean, this is why I have a flip
phone. Because I need to nothave the internet accessible to
me at all times. And there's somany other things I do I have
homescreen zero, which is wheremy I try and put as many apps as
possible into blocks. And so onmy home screen, I actually have
two apps and one is like aPomodoro type timer. And the
(20:47):
other exercise thing, but then Ican see the picture of my home
on my stepson when he was eight.
So I have homescreen zero, Ihave a thing, a brilliant thing
my friend Dave taught me, weworked on a talk that he did
called taming your tiny Tiger,which is all about how your
phone is like a tiny sabertoothed Tiger. Well, if I press
the home button three times,then it turns out it's not
(21:09):
working. It turns everythingblack and white. And suddenly
like all of the apps, becauseone of the things he taught me
is that the app designers aretrying to make the app as
exciting as possible. And whenyou see that green app with the
like red, you know, the littlered symbol of how many
(21:29):
notifications you're like whowhen you look at it in black and
white. Yeah, you can barely seeit. Who cares? It's so much
less. But it's also just lessexciting. My friend Courtney
Carver from be more with lessesis as we're recording is doing a
five day challenge on spend lesstime with your phone. And she
said one of the things shediscovered is that phones are
somewhat, I wish I couldremember who it was that said
(21:53):
this, but he described yourphone as being like a tiny slot
machine for dopamine, right inour pocket. Like imagine if you
were if you were addicted togambling, and you had a tiny
slot machine in your pocket, youwould just play it all at the
time. Like of course, we're nonstop going on. And so really,
you know, I think that's theother thing in terms of the self
forgiveness and the shame aroundit is like remembering that it's
(22:13):
not totally our fault. Likeliterally, people are profiting
from not being able to get tobed. I'm like I'm reading a lot
about diet culture and the mythof the obesity epidemic and kind
of inspired by this podcastyou're wrong about and one of
the questions I keep hearing,which I really love is whenever
you hate on your physicalappearance in any way, ask
(22:37):
yourself who is profiting fromme having this thought? And I
think it's you know, it's justoccurred to me now talking to
you that we should think thatevery time we like, I'm dicking
around on my phone, we shouldask ourselves who is profiting
and I think the bit of me that'slike an activist and you know,
anti capitalist is like, if thatyou know, right, yeah, rebel,
(22:58):
even as I as I work for many ofthese big corporations myself,
I'm just like, yeah, he'sprofiting. I don't want someone
else profiting. But it's, butit's hard. It's hard. But I also
think I did it before like, Ijust remember being a student
and doing it. And when we havethem with analog TV, and VHS is
like, I still would stay up toI've got diaries from when I was
(23:19):
14 years old. And I'm like, it's1am and I'm just like, What are
you doing 14 year old Marsha goto Instagram, in 1990 Whatever
it is,they said, You know, I've heard
before that if something's freein technology, then you're being
you're the product right? SoFacebook or Instagram or
(23:39):
whatever, like we're theproducts and and so that's very
true. Like we they definitelyprofit off of our addiction to
social media and to technology.
As you were talking to beforeeven mentioned, like when you
were younger, I was trying tothink Okay, before we had the
internet, because when I was inelementary school, I'm 35 so in
(24:03):
elementary school, we had likecomputer lab, but we still had
dial up internet and everythingso we had internet at our house
but you couldn't be on it for along time because it blocked up
you know, the phone line. So Iwas trying to think like, okay,
middle school me or high schoolme like did I stay up really
late? And I didn't really Ithink it was really after the
(24:24):
internet that I you know, when Iwas on my own after college so
in college, I had a millionjobs. So I I don't think I
really dicked around if I was bymyself or wasn't with friends
but after I lived by myself fora year. And I was a super night
owl then because I freelancedand had my own schedule, and I
lived completely by myself and Ijust you know would stay up
(24:46):
really late and sleep in. And Ithink at that time, it was more
about like, I want to build mybusiness. I have to make money
to pay my rent because otherwiselike I'm going to get thrown out
I didn't have anyone to help meSo I think at night, a lot of
that meeting up was fromworking. And now it's almost
(25:06):
like it shifted into. And Iguess we're getting like, kind
of deeper on this podcast, butI'm into like connecting with
people. Because now like I toldyou, I'm staying up later to
connect with, you know, people.
So I know what's going on in thecollective world or sending the
TIC TOCs to my family orwhatever. I think it's like,
every time that I've stayed uplate or found myself in a
(25:28):
pattern of staying up late, it'sfor a reason. It's either for
like, it's not for, it's eitherit's just something that's like
going on in my life, that I'mprocessing in whatever different
ways.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like, as Isaid, I've always been I
remember for years saying topeople, I mean, this is a bit of
(25:50):
a dark joke, but I used to say,I think I'd be really good at in
like a hostage situation, aslong as I wasn't being tortured,
because I'm really good at usingup time whilst achieving nothing
like I've always it's alwaysbeen a real gift of mine, that I
always imagined, you know, youcould stick me in like a white
walled room and just feed me mymeal through a slot and then
come back to me three weekslater and be like, Oh, do you
(26:12):
want to hang hang out and havelunch together? I'd be like
Kelsey, you know what I wouldlove to but maybe like, in two
weeks, there's this spider andI've got this. And but I think I
think what you said earlierabout the showering thing,
because I'm so with you on thatbecause I think it's the
shoulds. And I think that's alsowhy when I was a kid, it's like
there's always some shouldsomewhat, I always left my
(26:32):
homework to the last minute. AndI'm with my stepson. Like, I see
him doing that. And I do thething that my mom used to do
with me, which is sometimes Ijust grabbed the book and I just
do it. But it's usually I tryit. I tried to do it less
because my mom is to do that forme. But also like I survived,
you know, I went to university,I got a psychology degree from
pretty good university. And Ithink that I remember I remember
(26:56):
being either at university or atschool, and getting pretty good
marks in something havingcrammed them all. At the last
minute I got my foot my lastyear of university, I was doing
a radio show at the localstation. I was working for the
BBC Radio One like the biggestnational station. Yeah, I was
running the lope I was I wasrunning the the National Student
(27:17):
Radio association for all thestudent radios in the country.
And I was the producer of theEdinburgh Festival coverage,
this coverage. And I was doingmy final year of my degree like
it was bananas. And I crammedeverything at the last night I
just gave up eight weeks of mylife to nothing but psychology.
And then I came out and I got atwo one, which is like a be
(27:40):
honestly I'm stunned that. But Iremember talking to a friend of
my mom's who's an interpreterand saying, oh, you know, I
don't know all about maybe myschool results like saying I
don't know if I deserve thosemarks because I did it all at
the last minute. And she saidthere are many jobs and minors
one of them were being able tocram at the last minute is
absolutely an asset, that if Ihad you know, in our job, we're
(28:02):
often just told, okay, you wentto a sugar conference tomorrow,
go learn all of the technicalterms about the chemical
components of sugar, and learnthem in two different languages
in Russian and French as well asEnglish. And, and it's and I
feel like even for my job nowthat I'm coaching, or I'm
running workshops, and when Irun workshops, you know, I leave
the writing till the last minuteand I hate myself and think this
(28:23):
could have been better. But Ialso starting to kind of learn
that that's my process. And I'mreally good at pivoting in the
moment when something happens inthe workshop. We had it recently
it was this big company and theywere using this new technology
and then this breakout I wassupposed to do couldn't work.
And in the moment I just I justpivoted, it was fine. Like it
was seamless. And I think that'sbecause of having done things
(28:48):
often that you have to beseamless. I mean, I think it's
also a bit of an ADHD thing thatour add rather that I that I am
sort of learning this as aperson who was only diagnosed at
the age of 43 that that you youlose attention so often that you
have to be really quick when youare six you have to make nobody
know that you weren't actuallylistening for the last five
minutes. But I think that thereyeah, there's there's some part
(29:12):
I think another big part of itis leaving things to the last
minute and again, there are somesilver linings to leaving things
at the last to the last minute.
And honestly one of the thingsthat has helped with all of this
stuff really. And this came froma brilliant coach, I worked with
Kate read and who I ended upwriting a whole talk about this
based on something she taught mewhich is to look at my
relationship with Shane and towhen I'm sitting there and I
(29:35):
call it your beast but my beastis its number one hit like Top
Billboard 100 hit is your you'rean effing loser, like it loves
to tell me I'm a loser lovestell me I'm a loser. It loves to
shame me for having dickedaround all day loves to tell me
that I have the potential toreally help people but I'm
wasting it and just learning tojust like let it be noise you
know, I don't think my belief isyou don't ever really
(29:57):
extinguished that voice but youcan Just tune it out. And so
that's the thing. I think eventhe fact that I can come on this
podcast and talk to you aboutthis, rather than being like too
much, is because I've beenlearning to just be like, Okay,
well, there you are. But, and,and surrounding myself, I have a
brilliant, brilliant coach. Bythe way, I know I'm saying lots
(30:19):
of names of things, but I amgoing to make you a secret
webpage right link to. Yes,I love that. But I have a
brilliant coach Laura Wellman,and she's really good at I'll
leave her a Voxer going, I'msuch a loser. I didn't deliver.
And she'll write back and belike, but look at all the things
you've got done this week, youknow, look at how you learned
this big contract or whatever.
(30:40):
Like, maybe it doesn't matterthat you dicked around until 11
At night, because you actuallygot x y Zed done. So I think
that also helps.
I agree. And I, I, we I did anepisode with someone about
procrastination, and it's reallygood. I think you would like it
if anyone else listening. It'sit's probably one of my favorite
episodes we've done. But one ofthe things we talked about is
(31:02):
like, if you're still asuccessful person, a lot of the
shame that goes intoprocrastination or what you
know, you and I have beentalking about, like that's just
from society's pressure on us.
And it's if you look at thingsmore at a granular level, the
things that we feel shame about,is it because you feel like you
should feel shame about it, oris it actually like being
(31:25):
detrimental to your life. Now,for me staying up so much later,
where I'm exhausted the nextday, that's detrimental to my
life. But if we look at like,last night, I didn't go to bed
till 1130 Because, whatever, I'mfine today, I'm I woke up at 730
I think usually I wake up at630. So I slept an extra hour
and my son woke up late, Ididn't have enough time to get
(31:49):
ready this morning. But that'sokay. Like the world didn't end
I didn't have like apresentation, you know, to 100
people that I to be on camerafor. So it's okay. So like any
shame that I had last night orguilt about going to bed early,
it actually is like, made up andit didn't really affect my life.
And so maybe that's somethingyou and I can can think about in
(32:11):
terms of what we've been talkingabout this. So this whole
episode is like, is the shame,really something you even need
to be feeling like just stayingup late and dicking around
really detrimental to your lifebecause for me, you know,
spending hours on tick tock, Ifeel like I shouldn't, but I
still have all my work done. I'mflourishing. I you know, I have,
you know, contract work I haveeverybody's happy with what I'm
(32:34):
doing. So at the end of the day,like it's not really detrimental
to my life,and you got to laugh and you got
to connect and you didn't haveto challenge your flooded brain.
It's such a good point. It'ssuch a good point. And I also
find and this also goes forprocrastinating is, but I find
sometimes I need to do a fewnights to just get sick of
myself, you know that I justneed to like, I mean also just
(32:55):
to get so tired that Iphysically can't stay up. Like
on the sixth night or whatever,that sometimes it's like, you
know, ebbs and flows. I feellike it's like with my office of
really truly accepting andunderstanding that my office is
never going to be full time tidybut what happens is I tidy it
and I'm like, this is how I'mgonna live and then the piles
start you know, one pile happensthen another and then they
(33:17):
increase and increase andincrease increase. And then I
have a big Blitz and then it'stight again and just I guess
it's the same as understandingyou know that it's a that it's a
cycle that the way justsomewhere on the circle and
sometimes we're on the stayingup late on tick tock slash
watching all the episodes of aproblematic TV show that you've
already seen. And sometimeswe're on the circle of like,
getting into it. I mean, here'sthe advantage. Here's a silver
(33:40):
lining. When I get into bed at930 my god I'm smug and self
congratulatory, and I just likefeel like the winningest if I
got into bed at 930 Every singlenight I just would be like oh
another night. But as it is I'mlike yes look at your Shanda
water hero. You are living yourbest life here. Yes, everybody
should learn from you. You'reamazing. And that's a pretty
(34:01):
nice feeling to havetrue but then you turn into one
of those like smug a holes whois like oh well I don't have
Instagram I don't use socialmedia I go to bed at nine
o'clock I don't know about therest of you so you I think you
need failure to like putyourself in your place Yeah,
(34:23):
but also wouldn't feel specialto you and I feel like I could
look like one of those smart gayholes right I could say to you I
have a flip phone. By the wayflip phones a the battery lasts
three days be they areindestructible. See they fit in
your bra. But in the days we'reallowed to go to places but like
I don't have a so I don't have asmartphone. I don't have any
social media or email apps on myphone. You know, I have I put
(34:47):
self control app on all thetime. I could look like one of
those but it's like I do all ofthose things. And yet, I used to
take a quarterly and I'm justout as this is coming out of my
mouth being like good point,Marsha. I used to take a
quarterly internet break or takea week off email and all social
media. And of course, I wouldsneak on the internet but but in
theory, I would take a week off.
And the reason I would do it isto remind myself that when you
(35:08):
don't respond to every, likereply to every comment, the sky
does not care. It turns out. AndI feel like it's good to like,
give myself, you know, in thesame way, as I've accepted, I'm
not going to reply to everyemail, it breaks my heart,
because so many of them arelovely people who have either
said something nice about myblog, or invited me to be on a
(35:29):
podcast or something, and wantto reply to them all. But once I
accepted, this was, again, Kateread and who helped me with
that, once I accepted that I wasnot going to reply to every
email and found my peace withthe discomfort of that. So I
guess really, that's the key isnot having a meticulously
planned day where we plan ourdicking around, I think the key
is comfort with discomfort andtuning out that shame.
(35:55):
Yes, I love that. Well. And Ithink that's a good note to kind
of close on today is like, atthe end of the day, let your
dicking around just happen. Letit let it just embrace it and
accept that you're going to doit instead of fighting it. And
if it's not detrimental to yourwife, or your well being or your
family or whatever elsemost of the time. Yeah,
(36:19):
then it's fine. I think does. Doyou have any other parting
words? Besides that, to kind ofsum it up or leave our audience
with I mean,I will say the other thing based
on today's talk about it withsomeone because when I'm just
carrying it around, like one ofthe weird things about having
lived with someone for years,and suddenly going to living by
myself again, half the week isyou do sometimes feel a bit like
(36:39):
a space person who's you know,lying to the spaceship has been
cut off and you're floating offin space, because there's no one
to tell, you know, I can call myfriends or whatever and tell
them about my day, but there'sno one there like witnessing me
staying up late. And sometimesI'm like, do I exist? And and I
think that the part of whathappens there is that I carry
the shame around and actuallyjust talking to you about it
being like maybe I don't need tohate myself as much as I'm
(37:04):
hating myself. And sometimesthere's a way out and, and so I
would say talk about it, or justlisten to us talk about it and
know that you're not alone.
I love that. I love that. That.
Yeah, just talking helps a lot.
So if people want to learn moreabout what you do, or just you
online, where can they do that?
I'm gonna make a special webpagewhere I talk about all the
(37:25):
different all the apps, I talkedabout all the people I
mentioned. There's also I can'thelp it. But I'm going to add
there's a link to a podcast thatI just found over Christmas that
I've listened to three times ina row that really changed my
life around accepting the shameand the discomfort and the fact
that you're never going to thisguy, Oliver Berkman. And he
talks about how you're not goingto magically become a different
(37:46):
person. It was from that but Istarted to realize the lifecycle
of my tidiness of my office, thetidiness cycle of my office. So
I'm going to put that in theretoo. And I will put it up on my
website. Special page I makewhich is yes, yes. Marcia Mar sh
a.com, forward slash storyshell.
I love that you're doing half myjob for all the links. So thank
(38:10):
you so much for joining me. Itwas really fun and thanks to
everyone else for listeninguntil next time.
Thank you for listening to thestory shout podcast. Don't
forget to review us on iTunesand connect with us on social
media at story shout or onlineat story shout.co Until next
(38:33):
time, stay normal.
You're listening to the story shout podcast hosted by
Kelsey Jones. We're a weeklypodcast dedicated to
destigmatizing failure andlaughing at our normalcy. Don't
forget to subscribe and leave areview on iTunes.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Storyshout. My name is Kelsey Jones.
(00:24):
And I'm so excited to be heretoday with Marsha Shan door. She
is a storytelling and KeynoteCoach and Trainer from Yesus.
Marsha, Marsha, thank you somuch for joining me.
Thank you for having me. This isgoing to be so fun.
I know. I'm so excited to talkabout what do you suck at today?
I well, I suck at it. I wouldsay I have a gift for not being
(00:47):
able to go to bed at a decenthour.
A gift. Wow, that'sjust really good at it. Yeah.
So what's okay, what is a decenthour to you, because if you
asked my husband and decenthours at midnight, and that is
not a decent hour to me.
So it's changed a lot over theyears. Like, I feel like one of
(01:09):
my dream jobs in terms of mywhat I like for my hours was I
used to have a radio show onetill 3am. So I would get to bed
at four. Everybody was asleep,like no one was awake. This was
kind of before the Ubik. Likebefore we had the internet on
our phones. So I would usuallyget to sleep at four and then
I'd wake up at 12. That wasgreat. And then, you know, I
(01:29):
started going more in the otherdirection. And then four and a
half years ago, my girlfriend atthe time had a baby. And so then
it really shifted. So thensuddenly, because she was waking
up at five or six every morningand often several times in
between going to bed anythinglater than kind of 930 or 10
seemed scandalous. I mean, weoften did. But then eight months
(01:54):
ago, I found myself like my myex and I you know broke up and
decided to live in differenthouses. And so we now don't have
the kids every night. And and Iwas like this is like I'm now a
morning person I would I wouldget up with her every morning.
So I was like five or six everysingle morning. And I was like
this is great. This is what I'vealways wanted. I've always
wanted to be an early morningperson, I've always wanted to be
(02:15):
someone who's in bed by 930 or10 every night. But it just
hasn't happened. I just snuckback into my old ways. And with
a new fun bonus, now that I havea sleep thing where I fall
asleep fine. But once if I wakeup at around five, I'm basically
awake for the rest of the day.
And so if I want to not be acomplete zombie, I have to try
and be in bed by 930 and asleepby 10. And, and yet, Kelsey, and
(02:38):
yet, it doesn't happen. Or whenI or when the kid is here and I
know she's gonna wake me up. Imean, it's a little just in the
last six months shifted that nowshe's waking up at sort of six
630 It's a little bit morereasonable. But I just last
night was a perfect example. Iwas like, Okay, I'm gonna after
(03:00):
a bit, I'm not gonna watch anyTV, I'm not going to go on the
internet. I'm going to clean upthe house. I'm going to do a
couple of other things. Maybe Ihave a little read in bed. And
I'll be asleep by 930. And thenI was like, maybe I'll be asleep
by nine. And then I went and Iwatched not even anything good.
I watched you old. I've beencomfort watching old Sex in the
(03:21):
City recently, I kind of did itbefore the new ones came along.
And then of course now I'mwatching the new ones as well.
And I watched like two oldepisodes of sex and see but I
even like fast forwarded throughbits of it because it's like
this is I know it's gonnahappen. Charlotte is going to
get caught out because she wenton two dates in one night and
and then I just and then ofcourse I had to do all the
things that I still had to do.
(03:43):
And it's like after 11am gettinginto bed being like, I don't if
you swear on your podcast, I'mgoing to not sweat just like
what the eff is wrong with you.
AndI that happens to me and I get
so mad. I was just talking to mysister in law I love reading
always have. But lately and Idon't know if it's because of
the pandemic and like this ishow I'm coping or something. I
(04:06):
just want to zone now. And I'vebeen reading as much I've just
been scrolling on tick tock. Idon't know if you're on tick
tock, but don't get on tick tockbedtimes gonna be even worse. I
don't want to enable you to stayfar away. But it's so funny on
that app. Like, the videos arehonestly so funny. And it's just
like a joy. It's just such it'ssocial media to actually like,
(04:28):
makes me laugh and makes me youknow, feel like good, I guess
which probably still isn'tright. But anyway, that's what
I've been doing the last fewmonths is all get on tick tock,
and then an hour's past hour anda half and then it's like you
said I try to have the samebedtime as you're saying, but
then it's like 1111 30 And thenmy husband, like I mentioned he
likes to stay up way later. Likehe'll come ask me at 1030 If I
(04:52):
want to watch a show or a movieI'm like, Are you insane? Your
mind is telling 30 And he looksat me, like what? If it is nine
or after I'm done. You can't askme to do anything, but I tell
him that but to his credit, I'mup in bed scrolling Tik Tok. So
it's not a completelyunreasonable request from him.
(05:14):
ButI didn't get on Tiktok for that
exact reason, because the onetime I tried it, I lost like
three hours or something. Butlet me tell you all the things I
put in place. So usually, Iclearly didn't do it last night.
But I usually set or use, I havea Mac. So I use self control app
on my computer. And I usuallyset it usually sometimes during
my work day, because that's whenI haven't gone into the like,
(05:37):
hypnotic hour. I locked myselfout of all of the TV platforms I
have, and Facebook andInstagram, and BBC News and The
Guardian and CBC News becauseI'm like, Well, I'm just gonna
look at CBC it's news. This isimportant. But then, you know, I
have to read every single story.
(05:57):
I was reading a lot of ask Pollywho this lady had the hair,
Heather have valesky does anamazing advice column. It's now
on substellar. I locked myselfout of New York Magazine out of
the cut magazine, because she'son it. And so I would lock
myself out of all of thosethings far in advance. And if
I'm really smart, I do it. So italso locks me out for the first
two or three hours in themorning. And then I got freedom
(06:20):
app on my so so that's ThingNumber One Thing Number two, I
have a flip phone. So I have asmart I have an iPhone with no
SIM card in it. Because I wantedone for apps and to be able to
take pictures. But on my iPhone,I don't have that the only time
I have the Instagram app is Idownload it if I want to upload
pictures of stories, and then Idelete it afterwards. I mean,
and then I scroll for two hoursand I delete it afterwards. But
(06:41):
the mostly the way I accessInstagram is through the browser
on my phone. And I do it throughthe incognito browser so that
all like through the safariprivate browser, so that it will
automatically log me out as soonas I'm done. And I don't have
Facebook as we have to doFacebook through the browser,
which crashes all the time andmy phone doesn't know my
facebook password either. I haveto type it in manually every
(07:02):
time I don't have the email app.
Again, I have to do it throughthe browser. And the browser
isn't even an icon I can clickon I found a way where you can
hide you can have no Safaribrowser, so you have to like do
spotlight search and thenpretend to search something and
then go in and do like there'sso many steps. And yet, Kelsey
and yeah, and and I boughtfreedom app, which is supposed
(07:24):
to lock you out of things onyour phone, but I haven't quite
figured it out yet. But I evenlast night so I now the only way
we managed to get my kid tobrush her teeth is to show her a
movie on YouTube kids. So shewatched the movie about brushing
teeth and she brushed her teethso I can't lock my realize I
can't lock myself out things forthat reason. But I had a
(07:44):
WhatsApp message from someone.
So I was like I am going to whenI get out of her room. I am
going to go and listen to that Irun a storytelling shown it's
one of my storytellers. So Iknew it was timely. Like, I'm
going to go, I'm going to listento the WhatsApp message. Then
I'm going to do the washing up.
I have a really exciting podcastI'm listening to at the moment
called passenger list. It's likea thriller about a missing
plane. And I'm like I'm going todo the dishes. I'm going to
(08:10):
listen to the passenger list.
But what did I do? I came out Ididn't even look at bloody
WhatsApp. I picked up my phone.
I carried it to the couch and Isat down and I speed watched two
episodes of Sex in the City thatI probably watched not that long
ago if I still remember whathappens in right, which I did.
And I don't know what it Yeah,it's so it's so weird. Like the
siren and often even I'm doingas I'm doing it as I'm punching
(08:33):
in instagram.com Because I haveto do it that way. There's a
tiny little voice that's goingI know why.
But I'm just like, Shut up voiceI deserve this. This is always
it's like I deserve this. Idon't I do not work hard like
(08:54):
I've one of the best jobs in theworld. I don't work hard. Then
with my kids like I love beingwith with my kids. Like I miss
her every second she's not here.
But the silver lining is thatwhen she's here I'm like, fully
focused. I have a great time.
I'm just delighted by every tinything she does, and so I don't
deserveit. So okay, I have a few things
to comment on first, tick tock.
(09:22):
After you scroll for an hour,this alert pops up and it says
hey, you've been scrolling for awhile you should take drink some
water. The speed at which myfinger flicks that video off.
Get out of here I don't want toknow about water. I don't want
to know that I've been on thisapp for an hour I get so mad at
(09:42):
the person's face. It's probablysome poor employee at tick tock.
I scroll the fastest I've everflicked a you know on a screen
and and so I and I'm like youtoo I go to so on my phone I
have folders that have by top SoI have like a social media
folder. So I have to cope withthat. And I have to open Tik
(10:04):
Tok. And like, I'm like you asI'm doing it, it's like No, get
out of there. You shouldn't openTik Tok, you need to open your
books app and finish your book,The One stupid book you've been
trying to read for three months.
And I'm the same voice talks tome and I, I don't know, I think
it's like a serotonin rush ordopamine rush or whatever they
say like social media, you getit faster, at least for reading.
(10:27):
It's like it's more of a longburn of satisfaction, maybe I
don't know. And, and I thinktoo, I use social media as a way
to connect with people,especially people that I don't
see a lot or because of thepandemic, maybe we haven't seen
each other like I have a cousin.
I'm really close to you thatlives. A six hours drive away
(10:52):
from me, I Midwestern in the USso we measure distances by how
long it takes you to drivesomewhere. So six hour drive,
which is pretty far and then mybrother's a two hour drive. So
him and I and my cousin alwaysshare tick tock videos with each
other, like almost every day. SoI think that's a way of me like
(11:12):
connecting. And this is what I'mtelling myself is like that's a
way of connecting with thesocial media, in terms of like
just binging on shows like youwere saying, I think I found
myself lately like there's somany great shows on on today,
just like across all the appslike everybody's like, have you
seen this? Have you seen this?
You know, people are winningEmmys whatever, I always want to
(11:33):
watch reality TV, just like giveme the worst trash of people
arguing or something I've seen amillion times i i Like Sex in
the City. But Seinfeld is one ofmy favorite shows of all time.
So all rewatch Seinfeld. And Ithink what it is, is my brain
just wants to turn off. Becauseyou know, I have a team of
(11:54):
people that I manage, I just, Ijust want my brain to be turned
off. It's kind of like junk foodfor my for my brain is what I
tell my husband. I don't want towatch them like a you know, some
long saga. It took me forever toget through like Breaking Bad
because it's such like, that'sall you can focus on. It's very
dark. I'd rather just like turnmy brain off. And I yeah, I
(12:15):
don't think that's healthy. ButI that's what I I don't know.
I think it is, I think I don'tthink it's unhealthy. And I
think part of the thing here isthat all of these things are
true, right? You are connectingwith your family. You know,
Twitter and Instagram is sofunny. Somebody posted on
Instagram the other day, I thinkit was my friend Jess, one of
(12:37):
her things is I love you themonsters. And she posted and
said it was something liketherapy isn't around dealing
with the root of your problems.
Therapy is about making makingyour therapy making your
therapist convinced that you'retheir favorite. And I loved
because I'm so convinced that Iam my therapist. Like I told my
therapist about that meme, but Iwas like don't comment, don't
(13:00):
comment I don't. And you know,somebody posted something the
other day it was like it was onTwitter, but it was a bit of so
I even deleted my Twitteraccount. I did that thing where
they're like you can come backin a year if you want. So I
haven't committed to it but Istill go and look at other
people's Twitter's and somebodyposted this guy is a Wednesday
man and he just repost thefunniest stuff and some that
there was some research thatShakespeare had like maybe
(13:23):
smoked weed when he was writing.
And the person who quoted itwrote To be or not to be what
was the question? Me love forlike an hour. And I also will
screenshot those I have, youknow, my mom and then another
friend who are not on Twitterand not on Instagram, so I will
screenshot the best ones andsend those. And, and I think
that that's true. You know, atthe end of the day, we've been
(13:45):
challenged like part of me withSex in the City. I generally
have been trying over the lastfew years to be influenced by my
by my ex by my co parent who'svery good at this and thinking
Okay, where am I spending myleisure time? Where am I? What
am I listening to? What am Ireading? What am I watching on
TV? And is it all whites, thisnon disabled people like me, you
know, is it straight? I'm notstraight, but I code straight to
(14:07):
people. So I didn't I haven'texperienced I mean, I'm a queer
parent, and I'm a non bioparent, but I haven't
experienced most of theoppressions that queer queer
people have. And so I've beentrying to watch stuff, even if
it's something like blackish youknow, that's so funny. So like
most of the time and but when Idon't want to be challenged at
all, it's when I want to watchsomething I've watched 1000
(14:28):
times and maybe that's friendsall right now I'm like single
and I'm so far away from beingready to date. But I'm also very
interested in other people thateating so that's why I'm
watching Sex in the City becauseI'm like, I want to I don't want
to do any of this stuff myself,but I really want to live
vicariously through even thoughthey're all straight people, you
know, having heterosexualrelationships apart from one
instance, and and Stanford. ButI think it's like, we don't have
(14:54):
the capacity to watch anythingnew. And so that's why you're
watching Seinfeld and that's whyI'm watching Sex in the City and
friends even I'm like, yes, it'sproblematic. I should be using
my time better. But I think Idon't think it's bad inherently,
I think What's bad is when I Awhen we're when there's other
things that we want to be doing.
And we're doing it at theexpense of those be when we're
(15:14):
just getting hypnotically kindof sucked into staying up way
too late. And we're makingourselves miserable. And see
when we're not even totallyenjoying it, because part of us
is thinking that dishes are nextdoor and you still have to do
them, you're going to get wokenup at 6am by a small boys gang
man. And you can't ignore thatsmall voice and so, but I think
(15:38):
yeah, I think in a dream world,because there's definitely been
times where I've been like, I'mhaving a really rough day, I am
going to sit down and I'm goingto watch for, you know, two
hours of friends, I'm going towatch for four or five friends
episodes. And you know, I'mgoing to eat whatever this food
and I'm going to sit and I'm,and I'm sitting there being
like, God, this is the best. Mylife is amazing that I get to do
(16:01):
that, you know, and that's veryintentional. I got really I had
get stopped reality TV foryears. And then I hit it hard
around the time of my breakup.
And it was a lifesaver, like,because I just did a deep dive
into love is blind and thecircle. And I got a break from
having to think about thisdifficult situation that I was
(16:23):
in, because I just wascompletely obsessed with
everybody else'smanufacture difficult
situations, right. And so Ithink there's, I think there is
real benefit in them. But Ithink it's like in the dream
world, we every night, we wouldbe saying, Okay, I'm going to
spend 20 minutes dicking around,and then I'm going to go do this
this. And actually, I think in adream world, I would just get
(16:44):
those dishes done soon. Butthere's some, for some reason,
as soon as I come out my kidsbedroom, the siren song of the
dicking around is so loud. Iinvented an app, which doesn't
exist. So if anybody makes apps,please make this up. I did. I've
told a couple of people aboutit. And they've said they might
but they haven't yet. But it'scalled SFA which stands for stop
(17:05):
effing around. And you tell itwhich websites just like self
control app, you tell it whichway or freedom you tell it which
websites. And then what happensis as soon as you go on those
websites, a big red timer in thecorner starts up and shows you
how long you've been on, itdoesn't go away. And then every
five minutes it goes. And thenlike every half an hour it goes
(17:28):
something like so annoying,right? Because the other thing
is often with Facebook, it'slike I have to go post this
thing for work, I have to gocheck this thing. And then it's
like, oh, seven notifications.
And then 45 minutes later, andthen I panic log out. And then I
couldn't even do the thing.
I know that happens to me allthe time. I so I agree with
(17:52):
everything you're saying. We aretalking about the siren song of
dicking around I so I read itwas probably a meme or something
that people are saying forparents especially so I have a
son, he's three and a half. Andfor parents especially, and
especially working parents evenmore not that, you know, being
at home as an a job. I'm notsaying that at all. But just
(18:13):
like having the mental brain ofanother project besides at home.
Whenever we finally put our kidsto bed or whatever. It's almost
like you want to fight againstdoing the things that you need
to do because you've done thethings that you needed to do the
entire day. So, you know, forthe most part most of us you
(18:35):
know during the day we do allour meetings, we do all our due
dates or whatever we managepeople from need to met, manage
if you're if you're working inthe home, maybe you completed a
project or all these errands orbills you had to pay I don't
know. And then when you finallyhave the time to yourself at
night, you are like fightingagainst having to do something
(18:56):
else, even if it's self care orlike beneficial to you. Like
sometimes this is so bad. And Iprobably shouldn't admit this on
like a public forum butsometimes even like showering or
taking a bath like not that I'mlike beyond help or you know,
have a hygiene issue, but I'mlike I really need to shower but
like today, I know we're nevergonna let this video today. I
(19:18):
haven't I haven't washed my hairin like three or four days and I
really find hair so I need to bewashed yet last night. Nope. did
not do that watched a show withmy husband and laid in bed and I
mean, it's just fighting againstlike what you feel like you have
to do I guessI think it's the shoulds and I
think that all makes sense interms of being a parent or
working parent but absolutelythis was my experience before I
(19:40):
mean I have a 17 year oldstepson and he does he's
actually my my very veryinteresting parenting so he's my
ex is my other exes kid and sohe does he a pre pandemic he
would do three nights with eachparent and one night with me so
I only had him one night a week.
and the rest of the time or whenI was with the ex, you know, I
(20:03):
would be there for whateverthree nights of the week, the
rest of the time, I didn't haveit. But I did, I still dicked
around like I still, that's whyI loved having the work at the
end of the day when it was beingon a radio show, which is a
super easy and fun job. Becauseit meant that there was no I
wasn't, there was no likecapacity for dicking around
because I didn't have a phone, Icould lie in bed and be on
Instagram in because it waswhatever the mid 2000s. And I
(20:25):
just kind of want the choice. Imean, this is why I have a flip
phone. Because I need to nothave the internet accessible to
me at all times. And there's somany other things I do I have
homescreen zero, which is wheremy I try and put as many apps as
possible into blocks. And so onmy home screen, I actually have
two apps and one is like aPomodoro type timer. And the
(20:47):
other exercise thing, but then Ican see the picture of my home
on my stepson when he was eight.
So I have homescreen zero, Ihave a thing, a brilliant thing
my friend Dave taught me, weworked on a talk that he did
called taming your tiny Tiger,which is all about how your
phone is like a tiny sabertoothed Tiger. Well, if I press
the home button three times,then it turns out it's not
(21:09):
working. It turns everythingblack and white. And suddenly
like all of the apps, becauseone of the things he taught me
is that the app designers aretrying to make the app as
exciting as possible. And whenyou see that green app with the
like red, you know, the littlered symbol of how many
(21:29):
notifications you're like whowhen you look at it in black and
white. Yeah, you can barely seeit. Who cares? It's so much
less. But it's also just lessexciting. My friend Courtney
Carver from be more with lessesis as we're recording is doing a
five day challenge on spend lesstime with your phone. And she
said one of the things shediscovered is that phones are
somewhat, I wish I couldremember who it was that said
(21:53):
this, but he described yourphone as being like a tiny slot
machine for dopamine, right inour pocket. Like imagine if you
were if you were addicted togambling, and you had a tiny
slot machine in your pocket, youwould just play it all at the
time. Like of course, we're nonstop going on. And so really,
you know, I think that's theother thing in terms of the self
forgiveness and the shame aroundit is like remembering that it's
(22:13):
not totally our fault. Likeliterally, people are profiting
from not being able to get tobed. I'm like I'm reading a lot
about diet culture and the mythof the obesity epidemic and kind
of inspired by this podcastyou're wrong about and one of
the questions I keep hearing,which I really love is whenever
you hate on your physicalappearance in any way, ask
(22:37):
yourself who is profiting fromme having this thought? And I
think it's you know, it's justoccurred to me now talking to
you that we should think thatevery time we like, I'm dicking
around on my phone, we shouldask ourselves who is profiting
and I think the bit of me that'slike an activist and you know,
anti capitalist is like, if thatyou know, right, yeah, rebel,
(22:58):
even as I as I work for many ofthese big corporations myself,
I'm just like, yeah, he'sprofiting. I don't want someone
else profiting. But it's, butit's hard. It's hard. But I also
think I did it before like, Ijust remember being a student
and doing it. And when we havethem with analog TV, and VHS is
like, I still would stay up toI've got diaries from when I was
(23:19):
14 years old. And I'm like, it's1am and I'm just like, What are
you doing 14 year old Marsha goto Instagram, in 1990 Whatever
it is,they said, You know, I've heard
before that if something's freein technology, then you're being
you're the product right? SoFacebook or Instagram or
(23:39):
whatever, like we're theproducts and and so that's very
true. Like we they definitelyprofit off of our addiction to
social media and to technology.
As you were talking to beforeeven mentioned, like when you
were younger, I was trying tothink Okay, before we had the
internet, because when I was inelementary school, I'm 35 so in
(24:03):
elementary school, we had likecomputer lab, but we still had
dial up internet and everythingso we had internet at our house
but you couldn't be on it for along time because it blocked up
you know, the phone line. So Iwas trying to think like, okay,
middle school me or high schoolme like did I stay up really
late? And I didn't really Ithink it was really after the
(24:24):
internet that I you know, when Iwas on my own after college so
in college, I had a millionjobs. So I I don't think I
really dicked around if I was bymyself or wasn't with friends
but after I lived by myself fora year. And I was a super night
owl then because I freelancedand had my own schedule, and I
lived completely by myself and Ijust you know would stay up
(24:46):
really late and sleep in. And Ithink at that time, it was more
about like, I want to build mybusiness. I have to make money
to pay my rent because otherwiselike I'm going to get thrown out
I didn't have anyone to help meSo I think at night, a lot of
that meeting up was fromworking. And now it's almost
(25:06):
like it shifted into. And Iguess we're getting like, kind
of deeper on this podcast, butI'm into like connecting with
people. Because now like I toldyou, I'm staying up later to
connect with, you know, people.
So I know what's going on in thecollective world or sending the
TIC TOCs to my family orwhatever. I think it's like,
every time that I've stayed uplate or found myself in a
(25:28):
pattern of staying up late, it'sfor a reason. It's either for
like, it's not for, it's eitherit's just something that's like
going on in my life, that I'mprocessing in whatever different
ways.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like, as Isaid, I've always been I
remember for years saying topeople, I mean, this is a bit of
(25:50):
a dark joke, but I used to say,I think I'd be really good at in
like a hostage situation, aslong as I wasn't being tortured,
because I'm really good at usingup time whilst achieving nothing
like I've always it's alwaysbeen a real gift of mine, that I
always imagined, you know, youcould stick me in like a white
walled room and just feed me mymeal through a slot and then
come back to me three weekslater and be like, Oh, do you
(26:12):
want to hang hang out and havelunch together? I'd be like
Kelsey, you know what I wouldlove to but maybe like, in two
weeks, there's this spider andI've got this. And but I think I
think what you said earlierabout the showering thing,
because I'm so with you on thatbecause I think it's the
shoulds. And I think that's alsowhy when I was a kid, it's like
there's always some shouldsomewhat, I always left my
(26:32):
homework to the last minute. AndI'm with my stepson. Like, I see
him doing that. And I do thething that my mom used to do
with me, which is sometimes Ijust grabbed the book and I just
do it. But it's usually I tryit. I tried to do it less
because my mom is to do that forme. But also like I survived,
you know, I went to university,I got a psychology degree from
pretty good university. And Ithink that I remember I remember
(26:56):
being either at university or atschool, and getting pretty good
marks in something havingcrammed them all. At the last
minute I got my foot my lastyear of university, I was doing
a radio show at the localstation. I was working for the
BBC Radio One like the biggestnational station. Yeah, I was
running the lope I was I wasrunning the the National Student
(27:17):
Radio association for all thestudent radios in the country.
And I was the producer of theEdinburgh Festival coverage,
this coverage. And I was doingmy final year of my degree like
it was bananas. And I crammedeverything at the last night I
just gave up eight weeks of mylife to nothing but psychology.
And then I came out and I got atwo one, which is like a be
(27:40):
honestly I'm stunned that. But Iremember talking to a friend of
my mom's who's an interpreterand saying, oh, you know, I
don't know all about maybe myschool results like saying I
don't know if I deserve thosemarks because I did it all at
the last minute. And she saidthere are many jobs and minors
one of them were being able tocram at the last minute is
absolutely an asset, that if Ihad you know, in our job, we're
(28:02):
often just told, okay, you wentto a sugar conference tomorrow,
go learn all of the technicalterms about the chemical
components of sugar, and learnthem in two different languages
in Russian and French as well asEnglish. And, and it's and I
feel like even for my job nowthat I'm coaching, or I'm
running workshops, and when Irun workshops, you know, I leave
the writing till the last minuteand I hate myself and think this
(28:23):
could have been better. But Ialso starting to kind of learn
that that's my process. And I'mreally good at pivoting in the
moment when something happens inthe workshop. We had it recently
it was this big company and theywere using this new technology
and then this breakout I wassupposed to do couldn't work.
And in the moment I just I justpivoted, it was fine. Like it
was seamless. And I think that'sbecause of having done things
(28:48):
often that you have to beseamless. I mean, I think it's
also a bit of an ADHD thing thatour add rather that I that I am
sort of learning this as aperson who was only diagnosed at
the age of 43 that that you youlose attention so often that you
have to be really quick when youare six you have to make nobody
know that you weren't actuallylistening for the last five
minutes. But I think that thereyeah, there's there's some part
(29:12):
I think another big part of itis leaving things to the last
minute and again, there are somesilver linings to leaving things
at the last to the last minute.
And honestly one of the thingsthat has helped with all of this
stuff really. And this came froma brilliant coach, I worked with
Kate read and who I ended upwriting a whole talk about this
based on something she taught mewhich is to look at my
relationship with Shane and towhen I'm sitting there and I
(29:35):
call it your beast but my beastis its number one hit like Top
Billboard 100 hit is your you'rean effing loser, like it loves
to tell me I'm a loser lovestell me I'm a loser. It loves to
shame me for having dickedaround all day loves to tell me
that I have the potential toreally help people but I'm
wasting it and just learning tojust like let it be noise you
know, I don't think my belief isyou don't ever really
(29:57):
extinguished that voice but youcan Just tune it out. And so
that's the thing. I think eventhe fact that I can come on this
podcast and talk to you aboutthis, rather than being like too
much, is because I've beenlearning to just be like, Okay,
well, there you are. But, and,and surrounding myself, I have a
brilliant, brilliant coach. Bythe way, I know I'm saying lots
(30:19):
of names of things, but I amgoing to make you a secret
webpage right link to. Yes,I love that. But I have a
brilliant coach Laura Wellman,and she's really good at I'll
leave her a Voxer going, I'msuch a loser. I didn't deliver.
And she'll write back and belike, but look at all the things
you've got done this week, youknow, look at how you learned
this big contract or whatever.
(30:40):
Like, maybe it doesn't matterthat you dicked around until 11
At night, because you actuallygot x y Zed done. So I think
that also helps.
I agree. And I, I, we I did anepisode with someone about
procrastination, and it's reallygood. I think you would like it
if anyone else listening. It'sit's probably one of my favorite
episodes we've done. But one ofthe things we talked about is
(31:02):
like, if you're still asuccessful person, a lot of the
shame that goes intoprocrastination or what you
know, you and I have beentalking about, like that's just
from society's pressure on us.
And it's if you look at thingsmore at a granular level, the
things that we feel shame about,is it because you feel like you
should feel shame about it, oris it actually like being
(31:25):
detrimental to your life. Now,for me staying up so much later,
where I'm exhausted the nextday, that's detrimental to my
life. But if we look at like,last night, I didn't go to bed
till 1130 Because, whatever, I'mfine today, I'm I woke up at 730
I think usually I wake up at630. So I slept an extra hour
and my son woke up late, Ididn't have enough time to get
(31:49):
ready this morning. But that'sokay. Like the world didn't end
I didn't have like apresentation, you know, to 100
people that I to be on camerafor. So it's okay. So like any
shame that I had last night orguilt about going to bed early,
it actually is like, made up andit didn't really affect my life.
And so maybe that's somethingyou and I can can think about in
(32:11):
terms of what we've been talkingabout this. So this whole
episode is like, is the shame,really something you even need
to be feeling like just stayingup late and dicking around
really detrimental to your lifebecause for me, you know,
spending hours on tick tock, Ifeel like I shouldn't, but I
still have all my work done. I'mflourishing. I you know, I have,
you know, contract work I haveeverybody's happy with what I'm
(32:34):
doing. So at the end of the day,like it's not really detrimental
to my life,and you got to laugh and you got
to connect and you didn't haveto challenge your flooded brain.
It's such a good point. It'ssuch a good point. And I also
find and this also goes forprocrastinating is, but I find
sometimes I need to do a fewnights to just get sick of
myself, you know that I justneed to like, I mean also just
(32:55):
to get so tired that Iphysically can't stay up. Like
on the sixth night or whatever,that sometimes it's like, you
know, ebbs and flows. I feellike it's like with my office of
really truly accepting andunderstanding that my office is
never going to be full time tidybut what happens is I tidy it
and I'm like, this is how I'mgonna live and then the piles
start you know, one pile happensthen another and then they
(33:17):
increase and increase andincrease increase. And then I
have a big Blitz and then it'stight again and just I guess
it's the same as understandingyou know that it's a that it's a
cycle that the way justsomewhere on the circle and
sometimes we're on the stayingup late on tick tock slash
watching all the episodes of aproblematic TV show that you've
already seen. And sometimeswe're on the circle of like,
getting into it. I mean, here'sthe advantage. Here's a silver
(33:40):
lining. When I get into bed at930 my god I'm smug and self
congratulatory, and I just likefeel like the winningest if I
got into bed at 930 Every singlenight I just would be like oh
another night. But as it is I'mlike yes look at your Shanda
water hero. You are living yourbest life here. Yes, everybody
should learn from you. You'reamazing. And that's a pretty
(34:01):
nice feeling to havetrue but then you turn into one
of those like smug a holes whois like oh well I don't have
Instagram I don't use socialmedia I go to bed at nine
o'clock I don't know about therest of you so you I think you
need failure to like putyourself in your place Yeah,
(34:23):
but also wouldn't feel specialto you and I feel like I could
look like one of those smart gayholes right I could say to you I
have a flip phone. By the wayflip phones a the battery lasts
three days be they areindestructible. See they fit in
your bra. But in the days we'reallowed to go to places but like
I don't have a so I don't have asmartphone. I don't have any
social media or email apps on myphone. You know, I have I put
(34:47):
self control app on all thetime. I could look like one of
those but it's like I do all ofthose things. And yet, I used to
take a quarterly and I'm justout as this is coming out of my
mouth being like good point,Marsha. I used to take a
quarterly internet break or takea week off email and all social
media. And of course, I wouldsneak on the internet but but in
theory, I would take a week off.
And the reason I would do it isto remind myself that when you
(35:08):
don't respond to every, likereply to every comment, the sky
does not care. It turns out. AndI feel like it's good to like,
give myself, you know, in thesame way, as I've accepted, I'm
not going to reply to everyemail, it breaks my heart,
because so many of them arelovely people who have either
said something nice about myblog, or invited me to be on a
(35:29):
podcast or something, and wantto reply to them all. But once I
accepted, this was, again, Kateread and who helped me with
that, once I accepted that I wasnot going to reply to every
email and found my peace withthe discomfort of that. So I
guess really, that's the key isnot having a meticulously
planned day where we plan ourdicking around, I think the key
is comfort with discomfort andtuning out that shame.
(35:55):
Yes, I love that. Well. And Ithink that's a good note to kind
of close on today is like, atthe end of the day, let your
dicking around just happen. Letit let it just embrace it and
accept that you're going to doit instead of fighting it. And
if it's not detrimental to yourwife, or your well being or your
family or whatever elsemost of the time. Yeah,
(36:19):
then it's fine. I think does. Doyou have any other parting
words? Besides that, to kind ofsum it up or leave our audience
with I mean,I will say the other thing based
on today's talk about it withsomeone because when I'm just
carrying it around, like one ofthe weird things about having
lived with someone for years,and suddenly going to living by
myself again, half the week isyou do sometimes feel a bit like
(36:39):
a space person who's you know,lying to the spaceship has been
cut off and you're floating offin space, because there's no one
to tell, you know, I can call myfriends or whatever and tell
them about my day, but there'sno one there like witnessing me
staying up late. And sometimesI'm like, do I exist? And and I
think that the part of whathappens there is that I carry
the shame around and actuallyjust talking to you about it
being like maybe I don't need tohate myself as much as I'm
(37:04):
hating myself. And sometimesthere's a way out and, and so I
would say talk about it, or justlisten to us talk about it and
know that you're not alone.
I love that. I love that. That.
Yeah, just talking helps a lot.
So if people want to learn moreabout what you do, or just you
online, where can they do that?
I'm gonna make a special webpagewhere I talk about all the
(37:25):
different all the apps, I talkedabout all the people I
mentioned. There's also I can'thelp it. But I'm going to add
there's a link to a podcast thatI just found over Christmas that
I've listened to three times ina row that really changed my
life around accepting the shameand the discomfort and the fact
that you're never going to thisguy, Oliver Berkman. And he
talks about how you're not goingto magically become a different
(37:46):
person. It was from that but Istarted to realize the lifecycle
of my tidiness of my office, thetidiness cycle of my office. So
I'm going to put that in theretoo. And I will put it up on my
website. Special page I makewhich is yes, yes. Marcia Mar sh
a.com, forward slash storyshell.
I love that you're doing half myjob for all the links. So thank
(38:10):
you so much for joining me. Itwas really fun and thanks to
everyone else for listeninguntil next time.
Thank you for listening to thestory shout podcast. Don't
forget to review us on iTunesand connect with us on social
media at story shout or onlineat story shout.co Until next
(38:33):
time, stay normal.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com