October 15, 2024 • 29 mins
Discover the secrets behind the tangled web of modern relationships with our special guest, Quentin, on this episode of Straight from the Source's Mouth. Have you ever felt suffocated in a relationship or struggled with a partner's anxious tendencies? Quentin opens up about his personal journey, shedding light on avoidant and anxious attachment styles, and how these dynamics can lead to a cycle of avoidance and anxiety. Through candid discussions and real-life examples, Quentin provides valuable insights into how childhood trauma and parental influence play a significant role in shaping our romantic interactions.
Navigating the complexities of personal needs within a relationship can be daunting, especially when dealing with issues like sensory sensitivities or health conditions such as Bi-Polar Disorder. Quentin shares compelling stories, including a couple dealing with miscommunication around financial support and quality time. We explore how societal challenges, like the lack of parenting guidance, contribute to the struggle of forming secure and healthy connections. This episode encourages listeners to recognize the importance of balancing individual needs with those of their partners, fostering better understanding and harmony.
In a world where superficial interactions are often mistaken for genuine connection, Quentin emphasizes the need for authenticity and continual self-improvement. We tackle the pitfalls of idealizing ourselves during early dating stages and how this can obstruct true intimacy. Mental health takes center stage as we advocate for embracing therapy and breaking the stigma around seeking professional help. Tune in for practical advice on self-reflection and personal growth, ensuring you leave with a deeper understanding of yourself and the tools to cultivate healthier relationship dynamics. Don’t forget to share, rate, and tell your friends about this enlightening episode!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
podcast.
Frank talk about sex and dating.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello everyone, tamara here, welcome to the show
.
Today's guest is Quentin, andwe'll be talking about dating
and relationship advice for guys.
If you like this episode, besure to tell your friends about
it and rate it as well.
Thanks for joining me, quentin.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
it was good, glad you could come on and I um yeah, I
just I like the advice you hadoffered to people in the past
and they may or may not havetaken it, so I wanted to give
you the opportunity to give yourwisdom to others who may
actually listen to it yeah, it'scrazy how people don't like to
(00:43):
take the advice of people whojust sit and watch and observe
things.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's like come on, guys, like I'm right, why are
you booing me?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, no, I get it.
I'm one of those people toothat sit back and observe.
You can see a lot for sure.
And you know just yeah for sure, all right, yeah, and you know
just yeah for sure, all right,yeah, I know we started talking
about, um, some of the advicewas they kind of feel like
(01:14):
suffocated in relationships,like mostly talking to guy
friends about they're eithertheir girlfriends I'm not sure
if their wives are girlfriendsbut just kind of you want to
share about, like how, what, whythey think that or how they,
what they say about it and whatyou had to say about it yeah, so
I've had, I've had a handful offriends who get into
(01:37):
relationships and then, you know, things start out really well
for them from my perspectivebecause I only know them, not
the partner so things normallyare starting out really well,
spending a lot of time together.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
They're talking a lot , almost inevitably, with you
know, these handful of peoplethat I know that they end up
feeling like like you said, thatthey're suffocated in the
relationship and they startpulling apart a lot more and
(02:21):
that seems to cause the reactionof, you know, reach farther,
pull harder, you know, from theother party, and it, you know,
seems to continue in that cycleof you know, my friend pulling
away, the partner pulling back,pulling like the relationship
(02:43):
closer again, and then you know,it just keeps going back and
forth.
Between that and as someonewho's experienced that dynamic
in a relationship from bothsides multiple times, you do get
(03:03):
to understand it after you'veexperienced a bit.
And what I've found from mylived experience, combined with
you know the stories that I'mhearing from my friends, it
(03:30):
seems very common that, um, youknow this whole thing about like
avoiding attachment styles andanxious attachment styles.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
right yeah, I was actually going to say that.
If you didn't, so yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, so it seems that these friends that I have
are, you know, they're all guysand it seems that a lot of them
have this very avoidantattachment style and that's the
runaway and then avoidant andanxious attachment.
They kind of attract each othera lot Very commonly.
(03:57):
I see so many relationshipsthis way.
So, yeah, they the avoidantends up feeling suffocated and
pulls away, um, and thecomplaints seem to always be
different, like specific things,but the undertone of it all is,
(04:20):
um, I feel that my autonomy isbeing taken away yeah like I
feel like I'm having to do allof these things for this other
person, and then the fact thatthey still have a problem, the
underlying problem being I don'tfeel connected to you
personally.
(04:40):
Um, oh, whatever I do is notgood enough.
I do so much for you, but it'snot good enough, and no one
wants to be in a situation wherethey feel that way.
Right, I think that much isunderstandable.
What I don't think isunderstandable is, if multiple
(05:02):
pain points in your relationshiplead you to that conclusion,
then maybe that's not thespecific issue, and if it is,
then the relationship is doomed.
That just means that you twoweren't meant for each other, in
my opinion.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, and are you saying there's basically, if it
happens that often maybe withyou like a pattern or something
that's going on with you, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
And are you saying there's basically, if it happens
that often maybe with you likea pattern or something that's
going on with you, hear thatcomplaint?
A lot was that, uh, I don'tfeel prioritized.
Um, I don't feel like you knowme for me.
(05:53):
I don't think that you care toknow me for me and from my
perspective at the time I waswas like what do you mean?
I pay attention to the thingsthat you like.
I pay attention to the jokesthat I make that you don't like.
I pay attention to thebehaviors that I do that you
(06:18):
respond a certain way to,positive or negative.
It took years to realize thatall that stuff is just like,
however well intentioned, it ismanipulation, because it's not
me being myself with the otherperson's best interests, it's me
(06:40):
figuring out what do I need todo to make sure that this person
likes me, slash is happy, slashdoesn't leave bottom line right
.
It ends up coming from a fearof abandonment, which doesn't
have to necessarily just be inromantic relationships.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree and that,
like you said, it doesn't haveto be in their actual
relationships too.
It's just you just go through.
A lot of people go through lifefeeling like they're
misunderstood or or not wantedor something with childhood
stuff.
You know, all of us have traumaof some kind unless we had
(07:20):
perfect parents, and they don'texist.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So yeah, even if you have one parent who is secure,
then you could have another onewho's?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
yeah, yeah and then watching them be victimized.
Yeah, yeah, and I was gonna goback to like mean what you say
about manipulation and learningwhat you need to do to make that
person happy.
I can see where she would notnecessarily feel heard or like
understood or, like you said,manipulation.
(07:54):
But there's also a differencebetween men and women that have
come into play as well.
It sounds like this might notbe the case as much for you what
you just described, but youknow just, women's number one
priority is to feel seen,understood and heard, and men
need respect.
And then, just likecommunication styles are are
(08:15):
very different too, and womenwant men to be just like them.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
They think you're misbehaving women, and then you
know, and we just don't get eachother's like natural ways of
communication and you could sayI don't think you understand my
point that I'm trying to make,and there are plenty of guys out
there who would hear that, asyou're stupid and take it
(08:41):
disrespectfully, and yeah, andwhen, when that's not the case
at all, like you're very clearlyshowing respect by virtue of
you want both of us to be on thesame page.
I think that is very respectful.
You know, if I didn't respectyou, I would be like, okay, you
can just, you know, keep beingdumb, thinking you're dumb
(09:03):
things, like you know.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, and I know you mentioned, like the mentality or
mindset.
You know that you would offer.
What did you?
What do you see?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
The first barrier is hearing a criticism and learning
to take it as a learningopportunity instead of an
inherent flaw of yourself.
Because you know, like, take a,I guess, a kind of simple
example of like let's say youhave one person who has, like,
sensory problems and they can'thandle, like you know, very like
sharp sounds, right, and youhave one person who has, you
(09:52):
know, like restless leg syndromeand they're you know they have
to constantly fidget and theycan't sit still and this person
is like constantly clicking apen.
Is it in spite of the personwith sensory issues?
No, I don't think so, right?
It's like they both have theirown needs, that they are trying
(10:17):
to meet their own needs, thatthey are trying to meet.
And if A needs to do A and Bneeds to do B, but A can't
handle B and B can't handle A,then that's not that B or A is
(10:38):
wrong.
It's that they're notnecessarily compatible together
or they haven't figured out away to compromise that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I always talk about how there are so many
people that aren't right foreach other.
They're still together and dono fault of their own, like they
just you know, you didn't,don't realize it right away,
kind of thing.
But then, rather than I don'tknow, know people will try to
work it out.
But if there's something likethat where you just it may not
be possible.
You know, like if one person ishard of hearing, it needs loud
(11:10):
stuff and one can't handle ittoo loud like it's just that's
going to be like a long-termissue.
So yeah, it's best to move on.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
But it's definitely hard for a lot of people to move
on from that kind of stuffbecause they think they'll find
they won't be able to findsomeone next right, which
circles back into the fear ofabandonment of, because,
assuming this isn't their firstrelationship, then every other
one has left, quote, unquoteRight, and it's all just like a
(11:41):
reinforcement of the samementality.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, and I know you had mentioned to like.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
miscommunication and miscomprehension are pretty much
like big factors betweenrelationships and offering that
advice to like right, because alot of people say that or would
agree that a relationship hingeson clear communication, like
it's going to make or break therelationship, which is true, but
(12:14):
if both parties don't have anequivalent level of
understanding, then you cancommunicate as much as you want,
it's not going to be effective.
Um, case in point, like, okay,example being my my parents
right, um, my dad was working alot because, you know, he made
(12:38):
more money than my mom and hewas trying to support the family
, right, yeah.
And then you know, 2008, and mydad had to work more and my mom
didn't feel as like seen, just,you know, direct impact of he's
not around as much, and youknow, then they started fighting
(13:04):
a bit and my dad hearing herunhappiness and immediately
translating it to I need to beable to make even more money so
that I can provide even betterfor the family, so that then I
can be home from work more, whenwhat she was asking for was for
(13:30):
him to be home from work more,and we'll figure out the rest.
But like I need you here withme sometimes, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And that's what men live for is to provide generally
I mean not all men, I guess,but like according to a coach
that's been on a few times likethat is, the number one drive
for a man is to provide.
Especially in a relationship orwith kids, is to provide for
their family like you said, it'sa driving factor.
And then, yeah, like you said,it's a perfect example.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Because then he's like oh, let me work harder to
make it even better yeah,directly making the, the problem
that she was, you know,complaining about or
communicating about.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Directly making it worse, yeah and yeah yeah, and
he probably heard it as likeyeah, like you said, the
solution was one thing.
When her solution and that'scomes into communication, like
not everyone you know, she saidI need more quality time, I and
I would rather make less moneyand get to see you more often,
(14:30):
or say it you know in words thathe would really get, and or if
he could even hear it that way,like you said.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
he could have taken it that way, like you said it
could have taken it as criticism, yeah, or, or who knows, like
maybe maybe he heard thecriticism and then, like you
know, a week later heard itagain and then, like a couple of
days later, heard it again.
And it's like I have personallyand I'm not, you know, proud of
(15:02):
this Right, but in in the pastrelationship there was a point
when we started fighting a lotevery time I would get home from
work and it got to the pointwhere I would start staying at
work like two hours late everyday, even, just like sitting in
my car in the parking garage, Um, just because like I was
dreading going back home to youknow, experience that again.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And it's like staying late at work to avoid that.
You know how else you can avoidhaving that fight by addressing
the fucking problem, yeah yeah,and that's so common.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I mean, I think a lot , of, a lot of men do that, or a
lot of, maybe couples ingeneral.
Um, yeah, one will, just toavoid the fight, they like stay
away, but then it makes more ofa fight because, especially if
they're anxious attachment stylewhen they need you need the
connection, and then of course,the perception of connection to
women and men is different aswell.
(16:01):
So you know, it's just, it'spretty much like it's amazing
that people even make it.
You know, there's actually likesecure, healthy, good
relationships out there, thejust the dynamics between men
and women and all thedifficulties.
And then people, there's noclasses for parenting, so all
the kids not all the kids, a lotof kids get screwed up and then
(16:22):
their perception of how thingswork in relationships are jaded
and yeah, and we're not eventalking about when you throw in
like mental illness and stuffinto that yeah you know you put
you put a kid who's predisposedto be PD in an abusive household
.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
growing up they are going to become one like a force
to be reckoned with type ofthing.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think I'vedone too many episodes on mental
illness, but yeah, that'sdefinitely prevalent, especially
after covid, and you know justor actually I guess there's more
(17:02):
people are actually talkingabout it now, like anxiety and
stuff too yeah, because my, mytheory is that a lot more people
are mentally ill than they'rewilling to admit, and covid kind
of put a mirror up to a lot ofthose people who you know, up
until that point, had been ableto keep busy enough to never
think about it yeah, and wouldyou say that they're doing
(17:27):
something about it now generally, or I mean, I know it's more
talked about like does yourtheory still hold, or that kind
of brought it out.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
What would you say?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I would say that it definitely brought more exposure
to the average person, whichthen led into it being even more
talked about.
In general, I still think thatthere's a lot of work to do in
terms of stigma and acceptance,that there's a lot of work to do
(18:03):
in terms of, like stigma andacceptance.
Case in point, I I have ADHDand an anxiety and I take five
ends for the ADHD right, whichhas a lovely little side effect
of spiking the anxiety a lot.
And you know people, peoplehave told me like oh, it's like
(18:27):
meth, it's like cocaine, you'rejust like doing legal drugs.
And it's like, ah, yeah, no,because I don't just go home and
then like pop pills for fun,like if I do that I'll die,
right, you know, I take this sothat I can function in a working
environment that is morehealthy, because up until this
point I've been working.
(18:47):
That I can function in aworking environment that is more
healthy Because up until thispoint I've been working in the
restaurant industry for years.
That was the only job that I hadthat was fast-paced enough to
be actually engaging for theentire shift, and that was
before I was medicated.
But also working in thatindustry destroys your body
takes a massive toll on your, onyour mental health, on on your
(19:12):
like energy, you know, and youhave to spend the entire day,
you know, giving, giving ahundred percent of your
personality to random people,and then you go home and like
what, what, what left is thereto give to the people you
actually enjoy hanging out with.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, especially if you're an introvert and you like
, thrive on recharging alone andyou just spent all that energy.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I mean it's.
And then, of course, if youhave two people with mental
illness or you know, puttingthem together in a relationship,
like I said earlier, it's likea wonder people can get together
, and maybe that's why lesspeople are dating nowadays Like
everyone's, like the apps arebecoming a pain and a lot of
people are just giving up ondating altogether yeah, because
(20:14):
there's there's also like muchmore available to to the average
person to be able to entertainor distract themselves like.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I'm not.
How familiar are you with, um,parasocial relationships?
I am not at all.
So this is like somesemi-recent phenomenon where,
basically, people will find acontent creator that they enjoy,
which there's nothing wrongwith enjoying different content
(20:47):
on the internet, right, that'sfine.
The problem comes with whenthese people get like they
develop an attachment towardsthis twitch streamer or this
youtuber.
This is where comments like and,as unfortunate as it is, but
you know, you have people whoare like, depressed and, you
know, thinking about hurtingthemselves, and you'll see
(21:11):
comments on YouTube pagessometimes that say like, oh, I
was at my lowest and like thiscontent creator, you, you, your
videos saved me and and pulledme out of that and I'm grateful
and and while that is awesomethat that was the result, we get
(21:31):
into the dicey situation oflike, you feel an attachment and
you feel like you give thissupport.
There's all these emotionscoming from the viewer going
towards the content creator thataren't reciprocated Because
(21:53):
they can't be right.
How can a content creator havethat same level of a connection
with every single person whoviews them, they can't.
I think that it primes peopleto like be more susceptible to
(22:14):
abusive relationships where theyare not prioritized or even
like thought of or, you know,considered anything.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, I mean it's kind of like gambling, where you
win every once in a while, orlike the the small times they
are nice or even with thecontent creators, if they
actually send a message or replyto a DM, and then they get that
hit.
And then they just look for thehits every once in a while,
even though they're fewer andfar between.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, because you don't know this person
personally, you know the idea ofthem and you know the the image
that they portray, and that canbe true for people in like
actual, like face-to-faceinteractions too.
It takes a long time to kind ofactually know and understand a
(23:03):
person and what makes them tickand understand a person and what
makes them tick.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, especially early dating, when you're both
on your best behavior.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, so I think also a lot of these issues stem from
people trying to avoid hurt,which takes a bunch of different
forms.
But if your only concern is howdo I avoid pain in this
(23:38):
relationship, then you're notgoing to grow in the
relationship and you're alsogoing to be more likely to hide
things about yourself.
More likely to hide thingsabout yourself.
And again, this is anotherexample of the however
well-intentioned that's justmanipulation.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of movies have that kind of
thing where suddenly they'lllearn something about someone
and they were too afraid to tellthem.
It was like you said in reallife too too.
So yeah, and then they neverget the whole person and if they
wait too long to say it, itcould.
It could actually be a factor,you know, depending on what, how
serious it is.
But yeah, yeah all right.
(24:23):
So let's try to bring, bring ina little bit of lightness or
some positivity.
What are some things you see,since you observe a lot, what
are some of the good you see inrelationships or the potential.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I think at the core of a lot of issues is just
learning to take criticism as alearning opportunity, like learn
to embrace learning, you know?
Because, like, how many peoplehave you seen that that walk
around with this air of like Iknow could very well be founded
in something, but you're notgoing to know what you're doing
in every single situation andevery subject, right?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, I definitely.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Embrace learning, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I'm definitely a lifelong learner and that's my
intent with this podcast too isto actually like help people
Like I talk about.
Are there any books that havebeen helpful to you, or just or
any topics that you've foundhelpful in?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
general, I consume a lot of like therapy content on
YouTube and I wouldn'tnecessarily recommend that just
because, like, you're gonna getmore direct and quicker results
if you go see a therapistyourself, because they're
(25:58):
working with you and tailoringstuff directly to you, versus if
you're, you know, looking upall these different videos on
YouTube and you're gonna have totake in all of that information
and then, like, piece it alltogether and, like you know,
keep, take out what stuffdoesn't apply to you and keep
what stuff does, and how do youknow what applies to you and
(26:18):
what doesn't, and which is whatI did.
Yeah, took a while, but, uh,yeah, I definitely recommend, um
, seeing a therapist, becausethere's nothing wrong with
seeing a therapist and there'sso much stigma attached to that
too.
Like, if I go to see atherapist, then that means that
I'm mentally ill, that meansthat I have a problem, and I
(26:40):
don't want to admit that I havea problem.
It's like there's nothing wrongwith that.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, actually I watched the last episode of the
Kardashians, which a lot ofpeople do, and I know Kim
Kardashian just admitted togoing to therapy for the first
time and her sister had beenencouraging her for a while, so
she was very happy that she did,and she's pretty much a
workaholic kind of the samething.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You know she's keeping so busy to like not
think about stuff, so that waswhat she realized, like you know
which actually thank you forthat Cause that that is probably
a more concise piece of adviceis you know it's it's a lot
easier to implement than youknow spending hours researching
mental issues and andrelationship issues and stuff Is
(27:25):
if you just give yourself anallotted amount of time at the
end of your day, or even like inthe middle of your day,
whenever um, to just sit andexist with your thoughts and
emotions, um, cause at first youknow, if you've been, if you've
(27:46):
been avoiding it for a while atat first that's going to be
extremely overwhelming, but themore you do it, the easier it's
going to get and the less you'llneed to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, yeah, because they say you should like feel it
in your body or know whereyou're feeling it, because the
mind and body obviously areconnected, but a lot of people
don't know both.
They might they know, mightknow they're angry about
something, but they don't knowwhat's underneath it and why
they're angry.
And yeah, yeah, it's definitelyhelpful advice and I normally
(28:18):
ask for a final conclusion or,like you know, kind of closing
thoughts, but I think that mightbe a good place to kind of end
it that's about it.
Yeah, awesome.
Thank you, yeah, and I'm gladwe brought up the mental health
stuff as well, because, like Isaid, there needs to be less
stigma about it, and if KimKardashian could go to therapy,
so can you.
Yeah, all right.
(28:41):
Well, thank you very much forbeing on.
I enjoyed the conversation andhopefully people got something
out of it for themselves ifthey're struggling with mental
health as well.
Exactly Alright.
Well, thank you again.
Thank you for having me, and ifyou like this episode, be sure
to tell your friends about it.
Rate it as well, and at the topof each description there's a
send me a text so you canactually send an anonymous
(29:04):
question or comment.
So alright, thanks everyone.
Frank Talk, Frank Talk, send ananonymous question or comment.
So all right, Thanks everyone.
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
podcast.
Frank talk about sex and dating.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello everyone, tamara here, welcome to the show
.
Today's guest is Quentin, andwe'll be talking about dating
and relationship advice for guys.
If you like this episode, besure to tell your friends about
it and rate it as well.
Thanks for joining me, quentin.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
it was good, glad you could come on and I um yeah, I
just I like the advice you hadoffered to people in the past
and they may or may not havetaken it, so I wanted to give
you the opportunity to give yourwisdom to others who may
actually listen to it yeah, it'scrazy how people don't like to
(00:43):
take the advice of people whojust sit and watch and observe
things.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's like come on, guys, like I'm right, why are
you booing me?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, no, I get it.
I'm one of those people toothat sit back and observe.
You can see a lot for sure.
And you know just yeah for sure, all right, yeah, and you know
just yeah for sure, all right,yeah, I know we started talking
about, um, some of the advicewas they kind of feel like
(01:14):
suffocated in relationships,like mostly talking to guy
friends about they're eithertheir girlfriends I'm not sure
if their wives are girlfriendsbut just kind of you want to
share about, like how, what, whythey think that or how they,
what they say about it and whatyou had to say about it yeah, so
I've had, I've had a handful offriends who get into
(01:37):
relationships and then, you know, things start out really well
for them from my perspectivebecause I only know them, not
the partner so things normallyare starting out really well,
spending a lot of time together.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
They're talking a lot , almost inevitably, with you
know, these handful of peoplethat I know that they end up
feeling like like you said, thatthey're suffocated in the
relationship and they startpulling apart a lot more and
(02:21):
that seems to cause the reactionof, you know, reach farther,
pull harder, you know, from theother party, and it, you know,
seems to continue in that cycleof you know, my friend pulling
away, the partner pulling back,pulling like the relationship
(02:43):
closer again, and then you know,it just keeps going back and
forth.
Between that and as someonewho's experienced that dynamic
in a relationship from bothsides multiple times, you do get
(03:03):
to understand it after you'veexperienced a bit.
And what I've found from mylived experience, combined with
you know the stories that I'mhearing from my friends, it
(03:30):
seems very common that, um, youknow this whole thing about like
avoiding attachment styles andanxious attachment styles.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
right yeah, I was actually going to say that.
If you didn't, so yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, so it seems that these friends that I have
are, you know, they're all guysand it seems that a lot of them
have this very avoidantattachment style and that's the
runaway and then avoidant andanxious attachment.
They kind of attract each othera lot Very commonly.
(03:57):
I see so many relationshipsthis way.
So, yeah, they the avoidantends up feeling suffocated and
pulls away, um, and thecomplaints seem to always be
different, like specific things,but the undertone of it all is,
(04:20):
um, I feel that my autonomy isbeing taken away yeah like I
feel like I'm having to do allof these things for this other
person, and then the fact thatthey still have a problem, the
underlying problem being I don'tfeel connected to you
personally.
(04:40):
Um, oh, whatever I do is notgood enough.
I do so much for you, but it'snot good enough, and no one
wants to be in a situation wherethey feel that way.
Right, I think that much isunderstandable.
What I don't think isunderstandable is, if multiple
(05:02):
pain points in your relationshiplead you to that conclusion,
then maybe that's not thespecific issue, and if it is,
then the relationship is doomed.
That just means that you twoweren't meant for each other, in
my opinion.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, and are you saying there's basically, if it
happens that often maybe withyou like a pattern or something
that's going on with you, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
And are you saying there's basically, if it happens
that often maybe with you likea pattern or something that's
going on with you, hear thatcomplaint?
A lot was that, uh, I don'tfeel prioritized.
Um, I don't feel like you knowme for me.
(05:53):
I don't think that you care toknow me for me and from my
perspective at the time I waswas like what do you mean?
I pay attention to the thingsthat you like.
I pay attention to the jokesthat I make that you don't like.
I pay attention to thebehaviors that I do that you
(06:18):
respond a certain way to,positive or negative.
It took years to realize thatall that stuff is just like,
however well intentioned, it ismanipulation, because it's not
me being myself with the otherperson's best interests, it's me
(06:40):
figuring out what do I need todo to make sure that this person
likes me, slash is happy, slashdoesn't leave bottom line right
.
It ends up coming from a fearof abandonment, which doesn't
have to necessarily just be inromantic relationships.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree and that,
like you said, it doesn't haveto be in their actual
relationships too.
It's just you just go through.
A lot of people go through lifefeeling like they're
misunderstood or or not wantedor something with childhood
stuff.
You know, all of us have traumaof some kind unless we had
(07:20):
perfect parents, and they don'texist.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So yeah, even if you have one parent who is secure,
then you could have another onewho's?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
yeah, yeah and then watching them be victimized.
Yeah, yeah, and I was gonna goback to like mean what you say
about manipulation and learningwhat you need to do to make that
person happy.
I can see where she would notnecessarily feel heard or like
understood or, like you said,manipulation.
(07:54):
But there's also a differencebetween men and women that have
come into play as well.
It sounds like this might notbe the case as much for you what
you just described, but youknow just, women's number one
priority is to feel seen,understood and heard, and men
need respect.
And then, just likecommunication styles are are
(08:15):
very different too, and womenwant men to be just like them.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
They think you're misbehaving women, and then you
know, and we just don't get eachother's like natural ways of
communication and you could sayI don't think you understand my
point that I'm trying to make,and there are plenty of guys out
there who would hear that, asyou're stupid and take it
(08:41):
disrespectfully, and yeah, andwhen, when that's not the case
at all, like you're very clearlyshowing respect by virtue of
you want both of us to be on thesame page.
I think that is very respectful.
You know, if I didn't respectyou, I would be like, okay, you
can just, you know, keep beingdumb, thinking you're dumb
(09:03):
things, like you know.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, and I know you mentioned, like the mentality or
mindset.
You know that you would offer.
What did you?
What do you see?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
The first barrier is hearing a criticism and learning
to take it as a learningopportunity instead of an
inherent flaw of yourself.
Because you know, like, take a,I guess, a kind of simple
example of like let's say youhave one person who has, like,
sensory problems and they can'thandle, like you know, very like
sharp sounds, right, and youhave one person who has, you
(09:52):
know, like restless leg syndromeand they're you know they have
to constantly fidget and theycan't sit still and this person
is like constantly clicking apen.
Is it in spite of the personwith sensory issues?
No, I don't think so, right?
It's like they both have theirown needs, that they are trying
(10:17):
to meet their own needs, thatthey are trying to meet.
And if A needs to do A and Bneeds to do B, but A can't
handle B and B can't handle A,then that's not that B or A is
(10:38):
wrong.
It's that they're notnecessarily compatible together
or they haven't figured out away to compromise that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I always talk about how there are so many
people that aren't right foreach other.
They're still together and dono fault of their own, like they
just you know, you didn't,don't realize it right away,
kind of thing.
But then, rather than I don'tknow, know people will try to
work it out.
But if there's something likethat where you just it may not
be possible.
You know, like if one person ishard of hearing, it needs loud
(11:10):
stuff and one can't handle ittoo loud like it's just that's
going to be like a long-termissue.
So yeah, it's best to move on.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
But it's definitely hard for a lot of people to move
on from that kind of stuffbecause they think they'll find
they won't be able to findsomeone next right, which
circles back into the fear ofabandonment of, because,
assuming this isn't their firstrelationship, then every other
one has left, quote, unquoteRight, and it's all just like a
(11:41):
reinforcement of the samementality.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, and I know you had mentioned to like.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
miscommunication and miscomprehension are pretty much
like big factors betweenrelationships and offering that
advice to like right, because alot of people say that or would
agree that a relationship hingeson clear communication, like
it's going to make or break therelationship, which is true, but
(12:14):
if both parties don't have anequivalent level of
understanding, then you cancommunicate as much as you want,
it's not going to be effective.
Um, case in point, like, okay,example being my my parents
right, um, my dad was working alot because, you know, he made
(12:38):
more money than my mom and hewas trying to support the family
, right, yeah.
And then you know, 2008, and mydad had to work more and my mom
didn't feel as like seen, just,you know, direct impact of he's
not around as much, and youknow, then they started fighting
(13:04):
a bit and my dad hearing herunhappiness and immediately
translating it to I need to beable to make even more money so
that I can provide even betterfor the family, so that then I
can be home from work more, whenwhat she was asking for was for
(13:30):
him to be home from work more,and we'll figure out the rest.
But like I need you here withme sometimes, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And that's what men live for is to provide generally
I mean not all men, I guess,but like according to a coach
that's been on a few times likethat is, the number one drive
for a man is to provide.
Especially in a relationship orwith kids, is to provide for
their family like you said, it'sa driving factor.
And then, yeah, like you said,it's a perfect example.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Because then he's like oh, let me work harder to
make it even better yeah,directly making the, the problem
that she was, you know,complaining about or
communicating about.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Directly making it worse, yeah and yeah yeah, and
he probably heard it as likeyeah, like you said, the
solution was one thing.
When her solution and that'scomes into communication, like
not everyone you know, she saidI need more quality time, I and
I would rather make less moneyand get to see you more often,
(14:30):
or say it you know in words thathe would really get, and or if
he could even hear it that way,like you said.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
he could have taken it that way, like you said it
could have taken it as criticism, yeah, or, or who knows, like
maybe maybe he heard thecriticism and then, like you
know, a week later heard itagain and then, like a couple of
days later, heard it again.
And it's like I have personallyand I'm not, you know, proud of
(15:02):
this Right, but in in the pastrelationship there was a point
when we started fighting a lotevery time I would get home from
work and it got to the pointwhere I would start staying at
work like two hours late everyday, even, just like sitting in
my car in the parking garage, Um, just because like I was
dreading going back home to youknow, experience that again.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And it's like staying late at work to avoid that.
You know how else you can avoidhaving that fight by addressing
the fucking problem, yeah yeah,and that's so common.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I mean, I think a lot , of, a lot of men do that, or a
lot of, maybe couples ingeneral.
Um, yeah, one will, just toavoid the fight, they like stay
away, but then it makes more ofa fight because, especially if
they're anxious attachment stylewhen they need you need the
connection, and then of course,the perception of connection to
women and men is different aswell.
(16:01):
So you know, it's just, it'spretty much like it's amazing
that people even make it.
You know, there's actually likesecure, healthy, good
relationships out there, thejust the dynamics between men
and women and all thedifficulties.
And then people, there's noclasses for parenting, so all
the kids not all the kids, a lotof kids get screwed up and then
(16:22):
their perception of how thingswork in relationships are jaded
and yeah, and we're not eventalking about when you throw in
like mental illness and stuffinto that yeah you know you put
you put a kid who's predisposedto be PD in an abusive household
.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
growing up they are going to become one like a force
to be reckoned with type ofthing.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think I'vedone too many episodes on mental
illness, but yeah, that'sdefinitely prevalent, especially
after covid, and you know justor actually I guess there's more
(17:02):
people are actually talkingabout it now, like anxiety and
stuff too yeah, because my, mytheory is that a lot more people
are mentally ill than they'rewilling to admit, and covid kind
of put a mirror up to a lot ofthose people who you know, up
until that point, had been ableto keep busy enough to never
think about it yeah, and wouldyou say that they're doing
(17:27):
something about it now generally, or I mean, I know it's more
talked about like does yourtheory still hold, or that kind
of brought it out.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
What would you say?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I would say that it definitely brought more exposure
to the average person, whichthen led into it being even more
talked about.
In general, I still think thatthere's a lot of work to do in
terms of stigma and acceptance,that there's a lot of work to do
(18:03):
in terms of, like stigma andacceptance.
Case in point, I I have ADHDand an anxiety and I take five
ends for the ADHD right, whichhas a lovely little side effect
of spiking the anxiety a lot.
And you know people, peoplehave told me like oh, it's like
(18:27):
meth, it's like cocaine, you'rejust like doing legal drugs.
And it's like, ah, yeah, no,because I don't just go home and
then like pop pills for fun,like if I do that I'll die,
right, you know, I take this sothat I can function in a working
environment that is morehealthy, because up until this
point I've been working.
(18:47):
That I can function in aworking environment that is more
healthy Because up until thispoint I've been working in the
restaurant industry for years.
That was the only job that I hadthat was fast-paced enough to
be actually engaging for theentire shift, and that was
before I was medicated.
But also working in thatindustry destroys your body
takes a massive toll on your, onyour mental health, on on your
(19:12):
like energy, you know, and youhave to spend the entire day,
you know, giving, giving ahundred percent of your
personality to random people,and then you go home and like
what, what, what left is thereto give to the people you
actually enjoy hanging out with.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, especially if you're an introvert and you like
, thrive on recharging alone andyou just spent all that energy.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I mean it's.
And then, of course, if youhave two people with mental
illness or you know, puttingthem together in a relationship,
like I said earlier, it's likea wonder people can get together
, and maybe that's why lesspeople are dating nowadays Like
everyone's, like the apps arebecoming a pain and a lot of
people are just giving up ondating altogether yeah, because
(20:14):
there's there's also like muchmore available to to the average
person to be able to entertainor distract themselves like.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I'm not.
How familiar are you with, um,parasocial relationships?
I am not at all.
So this is like somesemi-recent phenomenon where,
basically, people will find acontent creator that they enjoy,
which there's nothing wrongwith enjoying different content
(20:47):
on the internet, right, that'sfine.
The problem comes with whenthese people get like they
develop an attachment towardsthis twitch streamer or this
youtuber.
This is where comments like and,as unfortunate as it is, but
you know, you have people whoare like, depressed and, you
know, thinking about hurtingthemselves, and you'll see
(21:11):
comments on YouTube pagessometimes that say like, oh, I
was at my lowest and like thiscontent creator, you, you, your
videos saved me and and pulledme out of that and I'm grateful
and and while that is awesomethat that was the result, we get
(21:31):
into the dicey situation oflike, you feel an attachment and
you feel like you give thissupport.
There's all these emotionscoming from the viewer going
towards the content creator thataren't reciprocated Because
(21:53):
they can't be right.
How can a content creator havethat same level of a connection
with every single person whoviews them, they can't.
I think that it primes peopleto like be more susceptible to
(22:14):
abusive relationships where theyare not prioritized or even
like thought of or, you know,considered anything.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, I mean it's kind of like gambling, where you
win every once in a while, orlike the the small times they
are nice or even with thecontent creators, if they
actually send a message or replyto a DM, and then they get that
hit.
And then they just look for thehits every once in a while,
even though they're fewer andfar between.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, because you don't know this person
personally, you know the idea ofthem and you know the the image
that they portray, and that canbe true for people in like
actual, like face-to-faceinteractions too.
It takes a long time to kind ofactually know and understand a
(23:03):
person and what makes them tickand understand a person and what
makes them tick.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, especially early dating, when you're both
on your best behavior.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, so I think also a lot of these issues stem from
people trying to avoid hurt,which takes a bunch of different
forms.
But if your only concern is howdo I avoid pain in this
(23:38):
relationship, then you're notgoing to grow in the
relationship and you're alsogoing to be more likely to hide
things about yourself.
More likely to hide thingsabout yourself.
And again, this is anotherexample of the however
well-intentioned that's justmanipulation.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of movies have that kind of
thing where suddenly they'lllearn something about someone
and they were too afraid to tellthem.
It was like you said in reallife too too.
So yeah, and then they neverget the whole person and if they
wait too long to say it, itcould.
It could actually be a factor,you know, depending on what, how
serious it is.
But yeah, yeah all right.
(24:23):
So let's try to bring, bring ina little bit of lightness or
some positivity.
What are some things you see,since you observe a lot, what
are some of the good you see inrelationships or the potential.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I think at the core of a lot of issues is just
learning to take criticism as alearning opportunity, like learn
to embrace learning, you know?
Because, like, how many peoplehave you seen that that walk
around with this air of like Iknow could very well be founded
in something, but you're notgoing to know what you're doing
in every single situation andevery subject, right?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, I definitely.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Embrace learning, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I'm definitely a lifelong learner and that's my
intent with this podcast too isto actually like help people
Like I talk about.
Are there any books that havebeen helpful to you, or just or
any topics that you've foundhelpful in?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
general, I consume a lot of like therapy content on
YouTube and I wouldn'tnecessarily recommend that just
because, like, you're gonna getmore direct and quicker results
if you go see a therapistyourself, because they're
(25:58):
working with you and tailoringstuff directly to you, versus if
you're, you know, looking upall these different videos on
YouTube and you're gonna have totake in all of that information
and then, like, piece it alltogether and, like you know,
keep, take out what stuffdoesn't apply to you and keep
what stuff does, and how do youknow what applies to you and
(26:18):
what doesn't, and which is whatI did.
Yeah, took a while, but, uh,yeah, I definitely recommend, um
, seeing a therapist, becausethere's nothing wrong with
seeing a therapist and there'sso much stigma attached to that
too.
Like, if I go to see atherapist, then that means that
I'm mentally ill, that meansthat I have a problem, and I
(26:40):
don't want to admit that I havea problem.
It's like there's nothing wrongwith that.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, actually I watched the last episode of the
Kardashians, which a lot ofpeople do, and I know Kim
Kardashian just admitted togoing to therapy for the first
time and her sister had beenencouraging her for a while, so
she was very happy that she did,and she's pretty much a
workaholic kind of the samething.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You know she's keeping so busy to like not
think about stuff, so that waswhat she realized, like you know
which actually thank you forthat Cause that that is probably
a more concise piece of adviceis you know it's it's a lot
easier to implement than youknow spending hours researching
mental issues and andrelationship issues and stuff Is
(27:25):
if you just give yourself anallotted amount of time at the
end of your day, or even like inthe middle of your day,
whenever um, to just sit andexist with your thoughts and
emotions, um, cause at first youknow, if you've been, if you've
(27:46):
been avoiding it for a while atat first that's going to be
extremely overwhelming, but themore you do it, the easier it's
going to get and the less you'llneed to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, yeah, because they say you should like feel it
in your body or know whereyou're feeling it, because the
mind and body obviously areconnected, but a lot of people
don't know both.
They might they know, mightknow they're angry about
something, but they don't knowwhat's underneath it and why
they're angry.
And yeah, yeah, it's definitelyhelpful advice and I normally
(28:18):
ask for a final conclusion or,like you know, kind of closing
thoughts, but I think that mightbe a good place to kind of end
it that's about it.
Yeah, awesome.
Thank you, yeah, and I'm gladwe brought up the mental health
stuff as well, because, like Isaid, there needs to be less
stigma about it, and if KimKardashian could go to therapy,
so can you.
Yeah, all right.
(28:41):
Well, thank you very much forbeing on.
I enjoyed the conversation andhopefully people got something
out of it for themselves ifthey're struggling with mental
health as well.
Exactly Alright.
Well, thank you again.
Thank you for having me, and ifyou like this episode, be sure
to tell your friends about it.
Rate it as well, and at the topof each description there's a
send me a text so you canactually send an anonymous
(29:04):
question or comment.
So alright, thanks everyone.
Frank Talk, Frank Talk, send ananonymous question or comment.
So all right, Thanks everyone.
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