November 12, 2024 • 27 mins
Ready to transform your relationship? Tune into a riveting conversation where we promise you'll gain profound insights on deepening emotional and physical intimacy with your partner. Join Tamara and her special guest, therapist Stephie Flood, as they explore how past experiences and childhood influences shape our present-day connections. Stephie opens up about her unique journey into therapy, shaped by her religious upbringing and early marriage, and offers invaluable advice on recognizing and addressing these deep-seated influences for a more fulfilling relationship.
Ever wondered how family backgrounds impact your marriage? Stephie and Tamara unravel the complexities of adjusting to different family dynamics, sharing personal stories that highlight how being an only child or growing up in a bustling household affects one's tolerance for chaos. They delve into the importance of understanding each other's attachment styles, guided by insights from the book "Attached" and John Gottman's research, and discuss how these styles influence issues like jealousy and the narratives we create about our partner's past relationships.
In today's digital age, maintaining intimacy requires modern strategies. This episode offers practical tips for setting boundaries with social media and fostering transparent communication about online interactions. They also introduce two courses designed to help couples build emotional and physical intimacy, emphasizing the significance of understanding each other's love languages and emotional needs. Don't miss this episode filled with expert tips and heartfelt stories to help you and your partner connect more deeply.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Podcast Frank talk about sex and dating.
Hello everyone, Tamara hereagain.
Welcome to the show.
Today's guest is StephanieFlood, and we'll be talking
about deepening relationships.
Be sure to tell your friendsabout it and rate it as well.
Thanks for joining me, Steffi.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, I think this will be a good topic.
There's a lot of Instagram andstuff that talks about how to
like if you're triggered fromthe past and you're not really
mad at the person, so I think wecould get more into that.
But I'm gonna start with howyou got into, or wanted to do
this for a living.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So I tell people all the time that you don't become a
therapist because, like, stuffwas normal growing up and so I
think, like a lot of us, I, myparents, are very deeply
religious and they had a lot ofideas from their own past stuff
about how they wanted me to beas a human, and religion played
(00:58):
a big part in that.
So they had me sign a puritypledge when I was 16 and place
it on the White House lawn forBill Clinton.
I had a boyfriend at the time.
I think that purity pledgedidn't last all that long and so
their next step was like, well,you guys should get married.
We did, and thank goodness,actually it all worked out.
(01:20):
We are still married.
And then at the time I just wasreally lost.
It took probably another decadebefore my husband really was
like, I really think you shouldbe a therapist, went ahead and
got a master's degree incounseling psychology and pretty
much out the gates.
I knew I wanted to be inprivate practice.
I knew that I wanted toprimarily work with adults.
(01:43):
I knew that I wanted toprimarily work with adults.
We ourselves were having amultitude of children.
So we have four kids and fourkids in five years we tell
people all the time because wedidn't know how that worked.
And then, as I built my privatepractice, it really shifted into
couples kind of organically.
Naturally.
That's just, I think, who Iattracted.
And then it really it kind ofdawned on me like a lot of
(02:06):
couples struggle with intimacyissues and that tends to be a
subject that a lot of peopletherapists tend to shy away from
because oh, that seems reallyoverwhelming or, you know, I
don't really know what to say.
And so it was a topic that Ifelt comfortable with.
And then, just kind of in theway I grew up, like these
(02:26):
messages that I was gettingabout intimacy and what should
and shouldn't be happening mademe want to talk to other couples
about it and that's where welanded.
So I've been in privatepractice now for 16 years.
For 16 years I just starteddeveloping courses so that I can
(02:51):
chat with more people and helpmore people, because there's
only so many you can doone-to-one.
So that's kind of my trajectoryof my career path.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Okay, awesome, yeah, I get that, because I used to do
stand-up comedy and you coulddo like a room of people at the
time.
But you can't do multitudes ofpeople unless you have a
platform like a podcast or acourse or something like that.
So, totally makes sense.
I get it All right.
And then you talk aboutintimacy.
So when you say intimacy, doyou mean like, is it generally
sex or is it all the stuffaround sex too?
(03:17):
And then yeah, so most.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, so most of the time people come to me and I use
the word intimacy because theinternet's one don't generally
love that word sex.
They get very upset about itand then they kick me off their
platforms.
So we've a little work aroundwith the word intimacy.
They like that one better.
But I also do believe thatthat's actually what people are
really craving and wanting andas we change and as we grow, and
(03:43):
what we wanted in our twentiesis not necessarily what women
and even men like want in theirforties totally different.
So using the word intimacy, Ithink, gives a broader idea of
just versus sex, like straightsex, and so when I talk to
couples we really talk about allthe ways in which we feel close
(04:04):
and connected, whether that isthrough touching or if it's on
the emotional side, and how youstay deeply connected, and it
sort of encompasses all of it.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Okay, Well, do you want to jump in either with?
Like I know, one of the topicsis understanding past
relationships.
I know that's.
You know a lot of people thinkthey're mad at the person
they're with, but really there'ssomething from the past.
So I want to talk more about,like how that works.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
When I talk to people about their past, usually we
kind of jump in, you know, withcouples and we sort of dive into
history a little bit.
And the history is, you know,mom and dad married, divorced,
what their relationship was kindof like, what your kind of
childhood, growing up stuff waslike.
I definitely ask people aboutreligious feelings because it
(04:49):
does play Sometimes.
People will tell me well, therewere no rules about sex and my
parents never talked to eachother and didn't touch each
other.
Well, that'll give you a lot ofinformation about how you might
act later on in life in arelationship or the things that
you might really want.
When we talk about, you know,past relationships that didn't
(05:11):
end up being your primaryrelationship, you know there are
things and people that comeinto our life that teach us
things and also hurt us.
And you know we want to bepaying attention to.
Oh, this thing that my partnermight be saying that they have
no idea that it really ishurtful to us or that it brings
(05:35):
up something deeper to us, andour go-to immediate response is
to react.
And then they're like oh, sam,why are you so mad at me?
I didn't say anything, I justasked you to take out the trash
or whatever it was you know.
And so we we dive deep into hey, maybe what are some of the
things that may have hurt you inthe past or created issues that
(05:58):
, oh it, it turns out that'sactually how I'm responding now
to my partner.
And how do we change that?
How do we come at that in adifferent way?
How do we feel inside our bodyto recognize that those emotions
are coming up?
And then how can we responddifferently to our partner and
(06:19):
vice versa?
And then our partner kind ofknows too.
I'll use myself as an example,being an only child.
My husband sometimes is totallyfine with our four children,
just kind of being crazy andwild and running around and all
the things.
And if I come into the mix itfeels really overwhelming to me.
(06:42):
And it's overwhelming because Iwas an only child.
I was by myself all the time,like lots and lots of noise and
chaos and craziness like throwsme for a loop.
So we had to adjust and workthat out and a lot of times I
just had to ask him.
I was like, is it normal forthem to like do these things?
Cause I have no idea.
Like, should they?
Should they be like screamingand yelling at each other.
(07:03):
Is that okay?
Like cause I feel like I shoulddo something and he's like,
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine.
And he really struggles,honestly, with quiet and being
really calm.
He loves chaos, he loves swirland he feels super comfortable
in it, and so sometimes when I'mtrying, like dial the
temperature down, he will belike this is boring, like I'm
(07:27):
bored, I don't know what to do.
We should go somewhere.
Let's get out of the house,let's do.
You know things like that, sopaying attention and
understanding that about yourpartner.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, yeah for sure, and I know I usually talk about
books, so are there any booksthat you found helpful to have
couples read, or or just like ago-to Bible or just something?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I really like the book attached and it talks about
our attachment styles, the wayin which we bond with our person
, and we get our attachmentstyles typically from our
parents, from our primarycaregivers.
You know, some of us havesecure attachments, which means
the bond that we formed with ourparents was pretty stable, very
(08:09):
normal.
We got all our needs met.
Lots of us got an insecureattachment where we weren't
really sure whether our parentor primary caregiver was going
to be there or not be there, orit was inconsistent.
And some of us have avoidantattachment styles, meaning like
our primary care person juststraight, did not attach or bond
(08:31):
to us and so anybody that triesto get close feels scary and
foreign.
And so take an avoidant personand an insecure person and try
and put them together and youget all kinds of fun things
happening.
So the Book Attached is a greatbook for couples.
Anything by John Gottman Idefinitely love respect and just
(08:56):
think that their messaging andthe way he approaches couples is
just fantastic.
It's based on research.
I geek out on the sciencebehind why we all do what we do,
and they really have done.
They have a love lab where theystudied people.
So anything by John and JulieGottman is is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree on both of
those.
I've had a few episodes onAttached or attachment styles
and him too.
Actually, I don't think I'vementioned John Gottman, but I
should have.
Yeah, he's definitely greatinformation, like you said.
All right, and then if therewas more to talk about the past
relationship stuff, I know I mayhave interrupted that part or
just you know, the deepening ingeneral how do you approach
(09:40):
couples and what actually worksfor them?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So sometimes couples think and I think you know Times
have changed, so you know itused to be like how many sexual
partners you've had and you knowhow that does jealousy play
into that and you know thingslike that, I think because we
are more apt to have multiplesexual partners prior to our
(10:04):
primary person, like thoseissues have kind of dwindled
down.
Those issues have kind ofdwindled down, I think, when
usually what comes up forcouples when they are, you know,
got some jealousy stuff goingon, it's usually feelings around
a story or an idea that theyheard about your past partner.
(10:24):
Like, oh, you know, Bob used totake me on, you know, these
extraordinary vacations and nowyou're with John and John maybe
doesn't ever like going onvacation, and so John now feels
jealous of Bob, Like, oh, Bobused to do this thing for you
and you're not going to love me,and so it comes up a bit.
Social media also comes upquite a bit and having really
(10:49):
good boundaries around how weinteract, we have access now to
ex-boyfriends, to co-workersfrom the past, to all kinds of
people, and so as a couple youreally want to sit down and have
very clear boundaries andunderstanding and some
(11:11):
guidelines for each other,expectations of, hey, this is
who we talk to on the internet,this is who we decide.
Hey, you know what?
It's not a good idea.
We're just not going to invitethese people into our life.
Do we talk about how, if an exor somebody calls us up or
messages us or something alongthose lines, do we tell our
partner or what do we do?
(11:32):
My advice is always, yes, thatwe want to just be clear and
honest.
Hey, this is who messaged me.
This is what the message said.
How would you like me torespond?
Like you know, or not respond,and that way you just don't get
into a lot of that messinessthat can happen.
Way you just don't get into alot of that messiness that can
(11:53):
happen.
And then again, social media istough, Like it is tough for
couples Again we just haveaccess on our phones all the
time to all kinds of people.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, and the sites that like hide messages and
stuff too.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yes, I do not recommend using any of those
types of sites if you are in along-term committed relationship
and you would not like to getin huge fights with your partner
.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, probably a good idea.
Yeah, so how do you like deepen?
I know you said I haveboundaries and like, what are
some other things you can toincrease the or reconnect?
I know you had mentioned thatearlier too, if you want to say
more, whichever way you want togo, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So when I, you know, right now, like kind of my focus
has been couples that have beenmarried for a long time, like
like myself, you know, got somekids in the mix, got you know
pets and a huge life, and you're, you know, probably both
working and you're runningaround and you're doing all the
things and you're doing life,you're doing the business of
being married really, probablyreally well, and then you sort
(12:53):
of look at your partner andyou're like, oh, I don't really
feel like we are connected, Idon't feel like we are, you know
, young and fun anymore.
And or like you know, when wasthe last time?
Like we just hung out andtalked and had a glass of wine
together, and for a lot ofcouples that space gets bigger
(13:16):
and bigger and bigger.
So a lot of couples will cometo me just because they feel and
then you add sex into that andsex typically is the first thing
to go Start to notice like, oh,it's been a week.
Oh, it's been three weeks.
Oh, it's been four months.
Oh, it's been a week.
Oh, it's been three weeks.
Oh, it's been four months, oh,it's been a year.
And you know that's usuallypeople will come to me when the
(13:37):
house is on fire, which meansyou know it's four months or
longer that they have had anysort of connection, intimacy or
anything and they're trying tofigure out how to get it back.
So the way we build it back isto slow and steady, almost like
when you were first dating.
Now, usually most people arefirst dating in their 20s and
it's hot and heavy and you'rereal quick to do all the things.
(13:58):
But we kind of want to do it ina slower fashion, meaning like,
hey, let's start building insome physical touch every single
day, because most people, mostof us, forget to do that.
We honestly, honestly forget togive our husband or our wife or
partner a hug or a kiss everyday, um, even twice a day.
(14:21):
And I start to recommend topeople like hey and this
actually comes from John Gottman, but it's called the 10 second
kiss and we start to build thatin.
If you've ever kissed yourpartner for 10 seconds, you will
know that it is an eternity Ifyou count it out.
You're like, whew, that is waylonger than I thought it was
going to be.
But then you get to get used toit again and you're like, oh
(14:44):
yeah, that actually feels reallygood, and the reason it feels
good is because it gives usenough time to get serotonin and
dopamine flowing.
And then we start to get thatbond back.
So we start with that.
We start with hugging andkissing every day.
We start to look at how theyare.
How can they build connectionand time together?
What can we do in their weekthat says, hey, can we go for a
(15:08):
walk every day around the block?
It's one of the secret thingsthat I tell couples to do
actually is to go for a walkaround the block, because
usually you are not on yourphone Hopefully you are you
don't have to make eye contact,so it doesn't necessarily have
to be weird, you just kind oftalk about your day.
Usually you can either strapthe kids in the stroller and
haul them with you, or you canleave them at home because
(15:31):
you're not gone for too terriblylong and it gives couples a
chance to really like, just bethemselves, be together, have
some conversations that theymight not be able to have when
there are dogs and kids in life,all kind of running around them
.
So we do that and we justslowly build from there till we
(15:51):
get to the point of like, okay,when do you guys think it would
be the best time to be intimate,like, did you guys just get
kind of out of a routine of,like?
You know, saturday night wasour date night?
By the way, I don't actuallyrecommend that, usually we're
too tired, but like, hey, howdoes?
How does Sunday morning looklike?
Usually we don't have too muchgoing on.
(16:12):
We can park the kids in frontof an iPad for 30 minutes and,
you know, maybe that's our day,my husband and I.
Our date day is Friday afternoon.
Actually, we go have lunchtogether every Friday, as much
as we possibly can, becausethat's the time when, honestly,
we don't have to worry aboutkids's.
The time when, honestly, wedon't have to worry about kids.
(16:32):
They're in school, so we don'thave to get babysitter do all
that.
We don't necessarily have todress up.
We can.
You know it takes an hour, anhour and a half out of our day
when we're both working and itit is our time together every
single week.
It has been so connective forus and when we just start to
talk to couples, or when I talkto couples about you know where
(16:55):
could we find that time?
Usually you can find timesomewhere, and you know, and it
doesn't have to be huge and bigand all the things, um.
So that's how we start to build, rebuild intimacy and rebuild
connection back into your orrebuild intimacy and rebuild
connection back into yourrelationship in your life.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just start dating.
Well, like I said, covering uptimes, if you want to do
something, you'll make the timefor it, and that lets you know
if you're both working on it too, if you're both trying to make
the time.
So give credit for at leasttrying, I guess, at first.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And I tell people this too you know we're always
looking for our partner to dosomething like oh, if he does
this, then I'll do this, and Ireally, really encourage people
to be the one to start first.
And when you takeresponsibility for yourself and
say, hey, I want to start makingthe marriage better, it really
is.
It is really life-changing forboth of you.
(17:58):
Like you tend to change as ahuman because you're doing
different things, your partnerstarts responding different and
it shifts and, typicallyspeaking, when somebody is being
changed their behavior and it'sless combative or it's more
open or it's more loving, it'smore of a our person tends to
respond in kind and then we'reoff to the races.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, I've definitely heard that before.
I hadn't seen it firsthand.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, yeah, cause it's very challenging, but it
can be done, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And even if it's something small, like just to
get started, you know, give youlike a little hope that they, oh
, they will respond, or but yeah, and I totally agree, just do
it first, whether or not it'stheir turn or they owe you, yes,
well, unless you want to saymore about that, it seems like a
good time to let people knowhow to reach you and the courses
(18:49):
you had mentioned.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yes, so I have two courses right now out in the
world, and the first one is AFlood of Love.
It is a little bit longer.
It is six modules and kind ofall of the stuff that you and I
were talking about today reallydive pretty deep into that.
I give couples lots ofquestions.
You get a lot of encouragementfrom me on like, okay, this is
(19:13):
how you deal with this, this ishow you build into this.
Um, you can do this courseeither on your own or, if you
want to sit down as a couple anddo it, you can do it together.
It's the more advanced versionof kind of what I got.
The second course is a minicourse and I kind of geared it
towards guys.
It's called A Guy's Guide toGetting More Action in the
(19:35):
Bedroom and most of the time thetime and this has just been my
experience as a therapistgenerally have no idea how to
intrigue their wife or femalepartner into doing the things.
They are usually like, hey, ifI grab your boob, this should
(19:56):
work right, Like this is whatyou and so this is super easy
fast course.
It's 20 minutes long.
It gives you six very basicsteps, uh, to really from a
man's perspective, how to gettheir female partner, uh, moving
in a more physically intimatedirection.
(20:18):
Yeah, yeah, so you can find meat afloadoflovecom and I'm on
Instagram, mainly at Steph Floodof Love.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And I was going to say back to like when I used to
do standup.
That's what I used to talkabout Like if you want to have
sex more, you should do thesethings, like I kind of talked to
.
I related it to the lovelanguages.
If they're, if they're a wordsof affirmation person, you
should probably say some nicethings before you just go to
touch.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
So exactly yes, um, I think I'm, I, I'm, I'm with you
and and thinking about all thefunny ways you could really mess
this up actually, all the funnyways you could really mess this
up actually.
Yeah, but yes, it really doeshave a lot more to do with
emotionally connecting to yourfemale partner than trying to
physically connect, andsometimes I think guys, you know
(21:12):
, they just get a little aheadof themselves and they're like,
well, you know, and most guyshonestly, like being slightly
easier, they're like just pleasetouch me.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I was going to say.
I read recently, totallyswitching subjects, that I think
it's 70% of women are the onesthat file for divorce.
I don't know if there'sanything to say about that or
just like some reasons why womenwould or should or shouldn't,
or like what you.
When they're on the threshold,what would you say?
Or how do you get them to seewhen they if it's working or not
(21:44):
, or could work?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Women will start to just I think the best way
somebody described it to me isyou know, women are kind of like
a basketball, and if they canbounce so many times and recover
so many times, but eventuallythey're not going to bounce
anymore, so they'll put in.
(22:06):
Women will typically put in alot, a lot of effort to make the
relationship work until theyjust can't, and that's typically
why a divorce will happen,because they just cannot put it
in any more energy or effort tothe relationship.
And it leaves a lot of mensometimes sort of dumbfounded.
(22:30):
They're like I didn't even knowthat you were this far down the
line, this far down the linelike um, which really kind of
sucks, but that it is typicalthat that that will be what
(22:51):
happens.
And so what I encourage womento do is, instead of just
continually like, let that ballbounce lower and lower and lower
is the first few times thatyou're like, hmm, not loving
that kind of behavior, start tohave a conversation now.
Now, go to therapy now.
Don't let it fester, because wewill, as a female, you will
(23:12):
just your emotions will say nope, I'm done now.
And once a woman's doneemotionally, that's pretty much
the end of the end of therelationship.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, and so I guess what are some other things
like men can do?
I mean, there's a lot ofdifference.
Like men think women should belike them and vice versa.
So there's a lot of confusionbetween like just getting each
other as you know, differentgenders.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, Different genders and being, you know, in
being in this day and age, rightLike so, again, I work with a
lot of couples that are more inmy age range, which is, you know
, 35, 40 plus crew that havebeen together for a long time.
You know, I think that thebiggest thing for men right now
(23:58):
and you were asking about booksand some other really great
books Terry real is anotherreally great therapist talks a
lot about us and the connectionof us and men kind of having to
make a change right now becausewomen are in the working full
time and having kids and ourpartnerships need to be a full
(24:20):
partnership.
It cannot just be a woman goingto work full time taking care
of the kids, taking care of thehouse, like this, you know, and
the guy just goes to work.
Like there has to be this shiftnow that it is a full
partnership, that everybody issort of doing different
components of the business ofbeing married.
(24:41):
When we do that and we respectand appreciate what each other
brings to that relationship andverbally communicating a lot of
the time like hey, let'sappreciate each other for what
we do and what we bring, andthat keeps that bond strong, the
(25:02):
more men can do that and say,hey, I appreciate the things
that you're doing.
And again, this goes back tothat emotional connection.
The more a man can emotionallyconnect to his female partner,
the better she's going to feeland the more likely she is to
want to touch you and the morelikely she is to want to touch
you.
And most men their lovelanguage is physical touch.
(25:22):
They do have others, but forthe most part they really really
enjoy being touched.
It doesn't have to be sexual,it just hugs, kisses, hold their
arm, pat their behind, whateverit's going to be, and that's
kind of the hamster wheel thatwe want to get on when it comes
(25:45):
to like healthy relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay, I was going to ask if you had any final
thoughts or like something youwant to leave the people
listening.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I would just marriage is hard.
Long-term relationships arehard.
They're messy, getting fightsyou think you want to call it
quits.
You know I do this for a living.
My husband and I have beentogether 30 odd years now and
we've definitely been therewhere we're like oh Lord, how
are we going to do this one moreday?
And my encouragement is to justkeep trying, recognize that
(26:16):
you're in a kind of messy placeor that something's kind of off
or it hurts or it's just notworking, and keep trying to talk
.
Keep trying to listen to yourpartner.
We want to talk more at ourpartner.
Listen like, ask them questions.
Hey, how are you feeling aboutthis?
What could I do differently?
How could I approach thisdifferently?
(26:37):
That would help you dodifferently.
How could I approach thisdifferently?
That would help you.
And if we do that, like youknow, you'll get through kind of
the muckiness and you get backto kind of the nice balance and
the and and feeling good andconfident in your relationship
again.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I have heard it's like lots of ebbs and flows
and there's good and bad, sojust weather the bad and get
back to some good for a while.
Awesome, all right.
Well, thank you very much forbeing on, thank you for having
me, and your courses soundreally cool, especially the mini
(27:11):
courses.
That would help a lot of menfigure out.
But yeah, thank you again forbeing on and if you like this
episode, be sure to tell yourfriends about it and rate it as
well.
And thanks again.
Thank you, alrighty Byeeveryone.
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Podcast Frank talk about sex and dating.
Hello everyone, Tamara hereagain.
Welcome to the show.
Today's guest is StephanieFlood, and we'll be talking
about deepening relationships.
Be sure to tell your friendsabout it and rate it as well.
Thanks for joining me, Steffi.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, I think this will be a good topic.
There's a lot of Instagram andstuff that talks about how to
like if you're triggered fromthe past and you're not really
mad at the person, so I think wecould get more into that.
But I'm gonna start with howyou got into, or wanted to do
this for a living.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So I tell people all the time that you don't become a
therapist because, like, stuffwas normal growing up and so I
think, like a lot of us, I, myparents, are very deeply
religious and they had a lot ofideas from their own past stuff
about how they wanted me to beas a human, and religion played
(00:58):
a big part in that.
So they had me sign a puritypledge when I was 16 and place
it on the White House lawn forBill Clinton.
I had a boyfriend at the time.
I think that purity pledgedidn't last all that long and so
their next step was like, well,you guys should get married.
We did, and thank goodness,actually it all worked out.
(01:20):
We are still married.
And then at the time I just wasreally lost.
It took probably another decadebefore my husband really was
like, I really think you shouldbe a therapist, went ahead and
got a master's degree incounseling psychology and pretty
much out the gates.
I knew I wanted to be inprivate practice.
I knew that I wanted toprimarily work with adults.
(01:43):
I knew that I wanted toprimarily work with adults.
We ourselves were having amultitude of children.
So we have four kids and fourkids in five years we tell
people all the time because wedidn't know how that worked.
And then, as I built my privatepractice, it really shifted into
couples kind of organically.
Naturally.
That's just, I think, who Iattracted.
And then it really it kind ofdawned on me like a lot of
(02:06):
couples struggle with intimacyissues and that tends to be a
subject that a lot of peopletherapists tend to shy away from
because oh, that seems reallyoverwhelming or, you know, I
don't really know what to say.
And so it was a topic that Ifelt comfortable with.
And then, just kind of in theway I grew up, like these
(02:26):
messages that I was gettingabout intimacy and what should
and shouldn't be happening mademe want to talk to other couples
about it and that's where welanded.
So I've been in privatepractice now for 16 years.
For 16 years I just starteddeveloping courses so that I can
(02:51):
chat with more people and helpmore people, because there's
only so many you can doone-to-one.
So that's kind of my trajectoryof my career path.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Okay, awesome, yeah, I get that, because I used to do
stand-up comedy and you coulddo like a room of people at the
time.
But you can't do multitudes ofpeople unless you have a
platform like a podcast or acourse or something like that.
So, totally makes sense.
I get it All right.
And then you talk aboutintimacy.
So when you say intimacy, doyou mean like, is it generally
sex or is it all the stuffaround sex too?
(03:17):
And then yeah, so most.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, so most of the time people come to me and I use
the word intimacy because theinternet's one don't generally
love that word sex.
They get very upset about itand then they kick me off their
platforms.
So we've a little work aroundwith the word intimacy.
They like that one better.
But I also do believe thatthat's actually what people are
really craving and wanting andas we change and as we grow, and
(03:43):
what we wanted in our twentiesis not necessarily what women
and even men like want in theirforties totally different.
So using the word intimacy, Ithink, gives a broader idea of
just versus sex, like straightsex, and so when I talk to
couples we really talk about allthe ways in which we feel close
(04:04):
and connected, whether that isthrough touching or if it's on
the emotional side, and how youstay deeply connected, and it
sort of encompasses all of it.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Okay, Well, do you want to jump in either with?
Like I know, one of the topicsis understanding past
relationships.
I know that's.
You know a lot of people thinkthey're mad at the person
they're with, but really there'ssomething from the past.
So I want to talk more about,like how that works.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
When I talk to people about their past, usually we
kind of jump in, you know, withcouples and we sort of dive into
history a little bit.
And the history is, you know,mom and dad married, divorced,
what their relationship was kindof like, what your kind of
childhood, growing up stuff waslike.
I definitely ask people aboutreligious feelings because it
(04:49):
does play Sometimes.
People will tell me well, therewere no rules about sex and my
parents never talked to eachother and didn't touch each
other.
Well, that'll give you a lot ofinformation about how you might
act later on in life in arelationship or the things that
you might really want.
When we talk about, you know,past relationships that didn't
(05:11):
end up being your primaryrelationship, you know there are
things and people that comeinto our life that teach us
things and also hurt us.
And you know we want to bepaying attention to.
Oh, this thing that my partnermight be saying that they have
no idea that it really ishurtful to us or that it brings
(05:35):
up something deeper to us, andour go-to immediate response is
to react.
And then they're like oh, sam,why are you so mad at me?
I didn't say anything, I justasked you to take out the trash
or whatever it was you know.
And so we we dive deep into hey, maybe what are some of the
things that may have hurt you inthe past or created issues that
(05:58):
, oh it, it turns out that'sactually how I'm responding now
to my partner.
And how do we change that?
How do we come at that in adifferent way?
How do we feel inside our bodyto recognize that those emotions
are coming up?
And then how can we responddifferently to our partner and
(06:19):
vice versa?
And then our partner kind ofknows too.
I'll use myself as an example,being an only child.
My husband sometimes is totallyfine with our four children,
just kind of being crazy andwild and running around and all
the things.
And if I come into the mix itfeels really overwhelming to me.
(06:42):
And it's overwhelming because Iwas an only child.
I was by myself all the time,like lots and lots of noise and
chaos and craziness like throwsme for a loop.
So we had to adjust and workthat out and a lot of times I
just had to ask him.
I was like, is it normal forthem to like do these things?
Cause I have no idea.
Like, should they?
Should they be like screamingand yelling at each other.
(07:03):
Is that okay?
Like cause I feel like I shoulddo something and he's like,
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine.
And he really struggles,honestly, with quiet and being
really calm.
He loves chaos, he loves swirland he feels super comfortable
in it, and so sometimes when I'mtrying, like dial the
temperature down, he will belike this is boring, like I'm
(07:27):
bored, I don't know what to do.
We should go somewhere.
Let's get out of the house,let's do.
You know things like that, sopaying attention and
understanding that about yourpartner.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, yeah for sure, and I know I usually talk about
books, so are there any booksthat you found helpful to have
couples read, or or just like ago-to Bible or just something?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I really like the book attached and it talks about
our attachment styles, the wayin which we bond with our person
, and we get our attachmentstyles typically from our
parents, from our primarycaregivers.
You know, some of us havesecure attachments, which means
the bond that we formed with ourparents was pretty stable, very
(08:09):
normal.
We got all our needs met.
Lots of us got an insecureattachment where we weren't
really sure whether our parentor primary caregiver was going
to be there or not be there, orit was inconsistent.
And some of us have avoidantattachment styles, meaning like
our primary care person juststraight, did not attach or bond
(08:31):
to us and so anybody that triesto get close feels scary and
foreign.
And so take an avoidant personand an insecure person and try
and put them together and youget all kinds of fun things
happening.
So the Book Attached is a greatbook for couples.
Anything by John Gottman Idefinitely love respect and just
(08:56):
think that their messaging andthe way he approaches couples is
just fantastic.
It's based on research.
I geek out on the sciencebehind why we all do what we do,
and they really have done.
They have a love lab where theystudied people.
So anything by John and JulieGottman is is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree on both of
those.
I've had a few episodes onAttached or attachment styles
and him too.
Actually, I don't think I'vementioned John Gottman, but I
should have.
Yeah, he's definitely greatinformation, like you said.
All right, and then if therewas more to talk about the past
relationship stuff, I know I mayhave interrupted that part or
just you know, the deepening ingeneral how do you approach
(09:40):
couples and what actually worksfor them?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So sometimes couples think and I think you know Times
have changed, so you know itused to be like how many sexual
partners you've had and you knowhow that does jealousy play
into that and you know thingslike that, I think because we
are more apt to have multiplesexual partners prior to our
(10:04):
primary person, like thoseissues have kind of dwindled
down.
Those issues have kind ofdwindled down, I think, when
usually what comes up forcouples when they are, you know,
got some jealousy stuff goingon, it's usually feelings around
a story or an idea that theyheard about your past partner.
(10:24):
Like, oh, you know, Bob used totake me on, you know, these
extraordinary vacations and nowyou're with John and John maybe
doesn't ever like going onvacation, and so John now feels
jealous of Bob, Like, oh, Bobused to do this thing for you
and you're not going to love me,and so it comes up a bit.
Social media also comes upquite a bit and having really
(10:49):
good boundaries around how weinteract, we have access now to
ex-boyfriends, to co-workersfrom the past, to all kinds of
people, and so as a couple youreally want to sit down and have
very clear boundaries andunderstanding and some
(11:11):
guidelines for each other,expectations of, hey, this is
who we talk to on the internet,this is who we decide.
Hey, you know what?
It's not a good idea.
We're just not going to invitethese people into our life.
Do we talk about how, if an exor somebody calls us up or
messages us or something alongthose lines, do we tell our
partner or what do we do?
(11:32):
My advice is always, yes, thatwe want to just be clear and
honest.
Hey, this is who messaged me.
This is what the message said.
How would you like me torespond?
Like you know, or not respond,and that way you just don't get
into a lot of that messinessthat can happen.
Way you just don't get into alot of that messiness that can
(11:53):
happen.
And then again, social media istough, Like it is tough for
couples Again we just haveaccess on our phones all the
time to all kinds of people.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, and the sites that like hide messages and
stuff too.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yes, I do not recommend using any of those
types of sites if you are in along-term committed relationship
and you would not like to getin huge fights with your partner
.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, probably a good idea.
Yeah, so how do you like deepen?
I know you said I haveboundaries and like, what are
some other things you can toincrease the or reconnect?
I know you had mentioned thatearlier too, if you want to say
more, whichever way you want togo, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So when I, you know, right now, like kind of my focus
has been couples that have beenmarried for a long time, like
like myself, you know, got somekids in the mix, got you know
pets and a huge life, and you're, you know, probably both
working and you're runningaround and you're doing all the
things and you're doing life,you're doing the business of
being married really, probablyreally well, and then you sort
(12:53):
of look at your partner andyou're like, oh, I don't really
feel like we are connected, Idon't feel like we are, you know
, young and fun anymore.
And or like you know, when wasthe last time?
Like we just hung out andtalked and had a glass of wine
together, and for a lot ofcouples that space gets bigger
(13:16):
and bigger and bigger.
So a lot of couples will cometo me just because they feel and
then you add sex into that andsex typically is the first thing
to go Start to notice like, oh,it's been a week.
Oh, it's been three weeks.
Oh, it's been four months.
Oh, it's been a week.
Oh, it's been three weeks.
Oh, it's been four months, oh,it's been a year.
And you know that's usuallypeople will come to me when the
(13:37):
house is on fire, which meansyou know it's four months or
longer that they have had anysort of connection, intimacy or
anything and they're trying tofigure out how to get it back.
So the way we build it back isto slow and steady, almost like
when you were first dating.
Now, usually most people arefirst dating in their 20s and
it's hot and heavy and you'rereal quick to do all the things.
(13:58):
But we kind of want to do it ina slower fashion, meaning like,
hey, let's start building insome physical touch every single
day, because most people, mostof us, forget to do that.
We honestly, honestly forget togive our husband or our wife or
partner a hug or a kiss everyday, um, even twice a day.
(14:21):
And I start to recommend topeople like hey and this
actually comes from John Gottman, but it's called the 10 second
kiss and we start to build thatin.
If you've ever kissed yourpartner for 10 seconds, you will
know that it is an eternity Ifyou count it out.
You're like, whew, that is waylonger than I thought it was
going to be.
But then you get to get used toit again and you're like, oh
(14:44):
yeah, that actually feels reallygood, and the reason it feels
good is because it gives usenough time to get serotonin and
dopamine flowing.
And then we start to get thatbond back.
So we start with that.
We start with hugging andkissing every day.
We start to look at how theyare.
How can they build connectionand time together?
What can we do in their weekthat says, hey, can we go for a
(15:08):
walk every day around the block?
It's one of the secret thingsthat I tell couples to do
actually is to go for a walkaround the block, because
usually you are not on yourphone Hopefully you are you
don't have to make eye contact,so it doesn't necessarily have
to be weird, you just kind oftalk about your day.
Usually you can either strapthe kids in the stroller and
haul them with you, or you canleave them at home because
(15:31):
you're not gone for too terriblylong and it gives couples a
chance to really like, just bethemselves, be together, have
some conversations that theymight not be able to have when
there are dogs and kids in life,all kind of running around them
.
So we do that and we justslowly build from there till we
(15:51):
get to the point of like, okay,when do you guys think it would
be the best time to be intimate,like, did you guys just get
kind of out of a routine of,like?
You know, saturday night wasour date night?
By the way, I don't actuallyrecommend that, usually we're
too tired, but like, hey, howdoes?
How does Sunday morning looklike?
Usually we don't have too muchgoing on.
(16:12):
We can park the kids in frontof an iPad for 30 minutes and,
you know, maybe that's our day,my husband and I.
Our date day is Friday afternoon.
Actually, we go have lunchtogether every Friday, as much
as we possibly can, becausethat's the time when, honestly,
we don't have to worry aboutkids's.
The time when, honestly, wedon't have to worry about kids.
(16:32):
They're in school, so we don'thave to get babysitter do all
that.
We don't necessarily have todress up.
We can.
You know it takes an hour, anhour and a half out of our day
when we're both working and itit is our time together every
single week.
It has been so connective forus and when we just start to
talk to couples, or when I talkto couples about you know where
(16:55):
could we find that time?
Usually you can find timesomewhere, and you know, and it
doesn't have to be huge and bigand all the things, um.
So that's how we start to build, rebuild intimacy and rebuild
connection back into your orrebuild intimacy and rebuild
connection back into yourrelationship in your life.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just start dating.
Well, like I said, covering uptimes, if you want to do
something, you'll make the timefor it, and that lets you know
if you're both working on it too, if you're both trying to make
the time.
So give credit for at leasttrying, I guess, at first.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And I tell people this too you know we're always
looking for our partner to dosomething like oh, if he does
this, then I'll do this, and Ireally, really encourage people
to be the one to start first.
And when you takeresponsibility for yourself and
say, hey, I want to start makingthe marriage better, it really
is.
It is really life-changing forboth of you.
(17:58):
Like you tend to change as ahuman because you're doing
different things, your partnerstarts responding different and
it shifts and, typicallyspeaking, when somebody is being
changed their behavior and it'sless combative or it's more
open or it's more loving, it'smore of a our person tends to
respond in kind and then we'reoff to the races.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, I've definitely heard that before.
I hadn't seen it firsthand.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, yeah, cause it's very challenging, but it
can be done, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And even if it's something small, like just to
get started, you know, give youlike a little hope that they, oh
, they will respond, or but yeah, and I totally agree, just do
it first, whether or not it'stheir turn or they owe you, yes,
well, unless you want to saymore about that, it seems like a
good time to let people knowhow to reach you and the courses
(18:49):
you had mentioned.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yes, so I have two courses right now out in the
world, and the first one is AFlood of Love.
It is a little bit longer.
It is six modules and kind ofall of the stuff that you and I
were talking about today reallydive pretty deep into that.
I give couples lots ofquestions.
You get a lot of encouragementfrom me on like, okay, this is
(19:13):
how you deal with this, this ishow you build into this.
Um, you can do this courseeither on your own or, if you
want to sit down as a couple anddo it, you can do it together.
It's the more advanced versionof kind of what I got.
The second course is a minicourse and I kind of geared it
towards guys.
It's called A Guy's Guide toGetting More Action in the
(19:35):
Bedroom and most of the time thetime and this has just been my
experience as a therapistgenerally have no idea how to
intrigue their wife or femalepartner into doing the things.
They are usually like, hey, ifI grab your boob, this should
(19:56):
work right, Like this is whatyou and so this is super easy
fast course.
It's 20 minutes long.
It gives you six very basicsteps, uh, to really from a
man's perspective, how to gettheir female partner, uh, moving
in a more physically intimatedirection.
(20:18):
Yeah, yeah, so you can find meat afloadoflovecom and I'm on
Instagram, mainly at Steph Floodof Love.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And I was going to say back to like when I used to
do standup.
That's what I used to talkabout Like if you want to have
sex more, you should do thesethings, like I kind of talked to
.
I related it to the lovelanguages.
If they're, if they're a wordsof affirmation person, you
should probably say some nicethings before you just go to
touch.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
So exactly yes, um, I think I'm, I, I'm, I'm with you
and and thinking about all thefunny ways you could really mess
this up actually, all the funnyways you could really mess this
up actually.
Yeah, but yes, it really doeshave a lot more to do with
emotionally connecting to yourfemale partner than trying to
physically connect, andsometimes I think guys, you know
(21:12):
, they just get a little aheadof themselves and they're like,
well, you know, and most guyshonestly, like being slightly
easier, they're like just pleasetouch me.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I was going to say.
I read recently, totallyswitching subjects, that I think
it's 70% of women are the onesthat file for divorce.
I don't know if there'sanything to say about that or
just like some reasons why womenwould or should or shouldn't,
or like what you.
When they're on the threshold,what would you say?
Or how do you get them to seewhen they if it's working or not
(21:44):
, or could work?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Women will start to just I think the best way
somebody described it to me isyou know, women are kind of like
a basketball, and if they canbounce so many times and recover
so many times, but eventuallythey're not going to bounce
anymore, so they'll put in.
(22:06):
Women will typically put in alot, a lot of effort to make the
relationship work until theyjust can't, and that's typically
why a divorce will happen,because they just cannot put it
in any more energy or effort tothe relationship.
And it leaves a lot of mensometimes sort of dumbfounded.
(22:30):
They're like I didn't even knowthat you were this far down the
line, this far down the linelike um, which really kind of
sucks, but that it is typicalthat that that will be what
(22:51):
happens.
And so what I encourage womento do is, instead of just
continually like, let that ballbounce lower and lower and lower
is the first few times thatyou're like, hmm, not loving
that kind of behavior, start tohave a conversation now.
Now, go to therapy now.
Don't let it fester, because wewill, as a female, you will
(23:12):
just your emotions will say nope, I'm done now.
And once a woman's doneemotionally, that's pretty much
the end of the end of therelationship.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, and so I guess what are some other things
like men can do?
I mean, there's a lot ofdifference.
Like men think women should belike them and vice versa.
So there's a lot of confusionbetween like just getting each
other as you know, differentgenders.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, Different genders and being, you know, in
being in this day and age, rightLike so, again, I work with a
lot of couples that are more inmy age range, which is, you know
, 35, 40 plus crew that havebeen together for a long time.
You know, I think that thebiggest thing for men right now
(23:58):
and you were asking about booksand some other really great
books Terry real is anotherreally great therapist talks a
lot about us and the connectionof us and men kind of having to
make a change right now becausewomen are in the working full
time and having kids and ourpartnerships need to be a full
(24:20):
partnership.
It cannot just be a woman goingto work full time taking care
of the kids, taking care of thehouse, like this, you know, and
the guy just goes to work.
Like there has to be this shiftnow that it is a full
partnership, that everybody issort of doing different
components of the business ofbeing married.
(24:41):
When we do that and we respectand appreciate what each other
brings to that relationship andverbally communicating a lot of
the time like hey, let'sappreciate each other for what
we do and what we bring, andthat keeps that bond strong, the
(25:02):
more men can do that and say,hey, I appreciate the things
that you're doing.
And again, this goes back tothat emotional connection.
The more a man can emotionallyconnect to his female partner,
the better she's going to feeland the more likely she is to
want to touch you and the morelikely she is to want to touch
you.
And most men their lovelanguage is physical touch.
(25:22):
They do have others, but forthe most part they really really
enjoy being touched.
It doesn't have to be sexual,it just hugs, kisses, hold their
arm, pat their behind, whateverit's going to be, and that's
kind of the hamster wheel thatwe want to get on when it comes
(25:45):
to like healthy relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay, I was going to ask if you had any final
thoughts or like something youwant to leave the people
listening.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I would just marriage is hard.
Long-term relationships arehard.
They're messy, getting fightsyou think you want to call it
quits.
You know I do this for a living.
My husband and I have beentogether 30 odd years now and
we've definitely been therewhere we're like oh Lord, how
are we going to do this one moreday?
And my encouragement is to justkeep trying, recognize that
(26:16):
you're in a kind of messy placeor that something's kind of off
or it hurts or it's just notworking, and keep trying to talk
.
Keep trying to listen to yourpartner.
We want to talk more at ourpartner.
Listen like, ask them questions.
Hey, how are you feeling aboutthis?
What could I do differently?
How could I approach thisdifferently?
(26:37):
That would help you dodifferently.
How could I approach thisdifferently?
That would help you.
And if we do that, like youknow, you'll get through kind of
the muckiness and you get backto kind of the nice balance and
the and and feeling good andconfident in your relationship
again.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, I have heard it's like lots of ebbs and flows
and there's good and bad, sojust weather the bad and get
back to some good for a while.
Awesome, all right.
Well, thank you very much forbeing on, thank you for having
me, and your courses soundreally cool, especially the mini
(27:11):
courses.
That would help a lot of menfigure out.
But yeah, thank you again forbeing on and if you like this
episode, be sure to tell yourfriends about it and rate it as
well.
And thanks again.
Thank you, alrighty Byeeveryone.
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