November 26, 2024 • 30 mins
What if you could transform awkward and difficult conversations about sexual health into empowering discussions? That's exactly what you'll uncover with Dr. Eveline Molina-Dacker, a trailblazer in the realm of sexual health and a family physician who has crafted a revolutionary method to facilitate these talks. Her STARS framework—standing for Safety, Turn-ons, Avoids, Relationship intentions, and Sexual health disclosure—serves as a roadmap for exploring desires and boundaries with both clarity and compassion. We delve into Dr. Dacker's personal journey and the inspirations behind this framework, revealing how it offers a structured approach for fostering trauma-attuned and consensual communication in sexual relationships.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
podcast.
Frank talk about sex and dating.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello, Tamara here, Welcome to the show.
Today's guest is familyphysician Dr Eveline
Molina-Dacker, who specializesin sexuality and sexual health,
and we'll be talking about howto have conversations about sex.
Thanks for joining me, DrDacker.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hi.
Yes, I'm excited to be herewith you today.
Thank you, hi.
Yes, I'm excited to be herewith you today.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thank you.
Well, everyone is having sexgenerally not everyone, of
course, but talking about it isthe harder part of it.
So having a lens on somatic andtrauma attuned.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, yeah, you know it is.
It's really hard to talk aboutsex and I know that there's
other.
You've had other podcasts aboutpeople talking about sex and I
know that there's other.
You've had other podcasts aboutpeople talking about sex and we
always say like we have to havethis conversation and it's a
really important conversation tohave.
But what I found was a missingpiece in it is having a way to
remember what to talk about andhaving some kind of framework
(01:02):
for us to understand our ownsexual desires and needs.
I know for myself, being a GenXer, that in my sex education we
never really talked about whatwas important.
So I had to learn all of thesethings as an adult.
And then I came up with likewow, everybody talks about
(01:24):
talking about sex, but nobodyhas a way of doing it.
Then I came up with like wow,everybody talks about talking
about sex but like nobody has away of doing it.
So I came up with a framework.
I came up with a framework formyself.
I came up with a framework formy patients, because I am a
family physician, and aframework for my young adult
children as they were enteringcollege, and I call that
framework the STARS talk.
(01:45):
Some people call it the STARSmethod.
It's really just a way ofremembering the five what I
think is like essential thingsthat we need to be able to have
these conversations.
The STARS talk and it's anacronym.
It stands for safety and kindof our safety needs.
It stands for our turn-ons, orthe things we like, our avoids,
(02:06):
which are our boundaries orthings we don't like our
relationship, what our valuesare, what our expectations, what
our intentions are in thoserelationships.
And then at the very end, wetalk about our sexual healthT-I
disclosure and status.
So that's the basic frameworkof it and it's been developed
(02:28):
over the last.
How many years like eight yearsI've been working on this and
it shifted and changed a littlebit, and now I like to call it
as a way of having atrauma-attuned consensual
conversation with a person Backat episode 14, where she talked
about the method, and now I'mtalking to the person that
actually created the method.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So I think that's pretty cool.
So, yeah, say and yeah, I meanyou just you pretty much said
why or how it came about.
So then, how easy is it forpeople to do, or what have you?
What have people come across?
Or yeah yeah, how does it help?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah.
So you know it's interesting.
I'll tell you a little bitabout the origin story because
sometimes people are like well,where did that come from?
So you know, when I was in mymid forties going through like
my menopausal you know,perimenopausal phase or entering
it, I started and being afamily physician watching women
go through this transition, Ithought, oh my gosh, like I'm
(03:27):
going to lose my sexuality and Idon't want to lose my sexuality
, so what do I do to not lose it?
So I started taking a lot ofcourses on sexuality, on sexual
health, and that's kind of whenI pivoted my work from just
being a functional andintegrative holistic family
physician to doing more specificsexual medicine.
(03:48):
I also do a lot of menopausemedicine.
I work with a lot of peoplegoing through life transitions.
So during my going to doing allthese classes, I heard about
people having these elevatortalks.
And the elevator talks is likewhen you're about to go for a
hookup or some kind of sex andyou kind of give them your
(04:08):
download, like this is what Ilike, this is what I don't like
and this is it.
And I thought, oh my gosh, thisis so fascinating.
Like why doesn't everybody dosome version of this.
And then, like I also went tolike I learned about kink and I
realized, oh, look, people whodo kink like actually have these
negotiation talks before theydo a scene.
(04:29):
And not only do they have thesenegotiation talks before they do
a scene, they also talk aboutwhat they want afterward and
they make a point of aftercare,like after the scene is done.
They do stuff Like they hug orthey give each other, like maybe
you get some ice cream, I don'tknow, you get something.
So I was like wow, howfascinating is that the people
(04:49):
do this.
And then, as I learned a littlebit more about Tantra and
sacred sexuality, I kind oflearned about how people make
bubbles and they create thesebubbles where they could
actually again talk about theirdesires and what they don't want
and their boundaries.
And I was like this is amazing,like why doesn't everybody do
this?
And I came to this idea that,like if everybody in the world
(05:12):
knew that there was a way ofactually communicating and had
some kind of framework to puttheir thoughts and their desires
in, and everybody could just belike, hey, let's do our stars
talk before you actually likeengage in any intimate behavior,
I was like that could reallychange everything.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, and I like that you
add the kink in the tantra.
Yes, tantra.
Yeah, because I haven't hadmany episodes about it, but I
know of tantra, so I'm glad thatyou encompass or brought in all
that stuff and it's a greatbackground to have about.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, you know, with my medical part and
talking to people from allphases, you know, as a family
physician too, like I work withpeople from babies until they
die, so I have this beautifulwindow into life and life
spectrum and because I've workedin the same community for
almost 30 years, I have somepatients that I've seen through
(06:06):
so much.
You know I really like toaddress and sex is not something
that's often discussed in amedical like.
Usually my patients feel likethey have to bring it up because
doctors have such a hard timewanting to talk about sex unless
there's a problem.
So I really was making this.
As I said, I was making thisframework for myself to learn
how do I could haveconversations with my patients,
(06:29):
also to be able to teach mypatients, because I had so many
coming in, you know, recentlydivorced, who ended up coming in
with chlamydia or gonorrhea,and I'm like, did you talk about
, like STIs and and and safersex?
They're like, oh, we don't haveto because we been married so
long, or I'm not going to getpregnant, so I don't use condoms
, and I'm like, well, you couldstill get chlamydia, like your
(06:53):
test shows me, or you stillcould get an STI.
So talking about things issomething I realized was such a
gap in most people'sunderstanding of how to do.
I'll be the first one to raisemy hand.
I'm not a sex therapist.
I didn't go and become acertified sex educator.
All of my education came fromkind of real life and going and
(07:15):
actually getting to knowdifferent subcultures, and so
tantra, or I call it like it'sneo-tantra, it's kind of sacred
sexuality.
It's about really getting inyour body and understanding.
It taught me a lot aboutsomatics.
What is somatics?
Somatics is a way of gettinginto our bodies and listening
(07:39):
deeper and being able to use ourbody's wisdom to help guide us
in the way we navigate the world.
And so much of my newerthinking about the stars talk
comes from a somatic lens aswell, because, again, when I
went to medical school, welearned how to treat a body.
(08:00):
We learned how a body functions, we learned how to fix things
that go wrong, but we weren'ttaught how to be in our body.
People don't know how to dothat.
I almost feel like we'rewalking just talking heads and
we're not connected to this.
So this goes into my very firstS.
So the very first S in thestars talk is safety needs.
(08:24):
Before.
When you think about sex andsafety needs you think about
like condoms and reproductionand how to prevent an undesired
pregnancy or an undesiredoutcome.
I kind of switched that thatreally safety is about.
What does it feel like beingsafe?
Like, how do you know you'resafe?
How do you know that certaintouch is safe?
(08:45):
How do you know that there'sthings you don't want and could
we take a breath and go into ourbody's wisdom and figure that
out?
How do we trust you know, whenyou're in a situation that you
just inherently feel a littleick about, but then we tend to
if you're a people pleaser or ifyou're someone who's taught to
override that like then youdon't learn how to trust that
(09:07):
ick feeling.
So you know a lot of what Iteach with the Star Talk is like
trust that feeling.
Like, where does that feelingcome from?
Trust it Then.
How do you communicate what youneed to stay in the place where
you feel good and this helps.
This is part of that wholetrauma-attuned consent lens,
(09:28):
that trauma-attuned.
So if we don't recognize that,we live in a world where
everybody has some level oftrauma.
I don't care if it's little Tor big T trauma, but you all
have some.
And then understand that whenwe have a trauma response,
really it's our body trying tokeep ourselves safe and what do
(09:48):
we need and what triggers those,and can we let someone know?
Oh, you know, by the way, ifyou end up I'm going to just use
something.
If you call me a slut, you know, for some people that could be
a turn on right In this rightcontext, but in other contexts
it could feel really icky and itcould feel like, oh my God, now
(10:10):
I'm not safe and this is theway my body responds.
In this trauma response I endup fighting, I end up having a
fight reflex.
So if you see me starting tofight, I could clue you in to
let you know that, oh, youmight've triggered something and
let's have a conversation overwhat that could navigate.
Now I understand this is prettyhigh end.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's not like I'm going to meet somebody at a bar
and be like, oh, this is mytrauma, this is, you know um,
yeah, like as you're in it orclose to it, yeah, yeah, and a
lot of women have a hard timetalking about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So, having a method where you it's like tuning into
yourself and thinking what do Ineed to feel safe in an intimate
(11:11):
environment, vulnerable context.
So then you know, once you kindof work in that, then what do I
need to communicate to anotherperson so that I'm safe in that
engagement?
So, for example, alcohol,that's one of my safety needs.
Like, if somebody is drinking alot, I don't feel safe.
(11:31):
If somebody tends to be a heavydrinker, that creates
situations for me where I'm notgoing to trust their yeses and
they can't really trust my yes.
So one of my safety needs thatI very much communicate with
people is that if you drink morethan two drinks of alcohol,
then any intimacy is off thetable, unless we're in a deeper
(11:55):
relationship and we know eachother and we have navigated that
In the beginning.
Yes, that is one of my safetyneeds.
Another one of my safety needsis I don't give my phone number
out on dating apps.
I don't want to give my phonenumber out until I meet a person
face-to-face and I know they'rereal, because I know there's
(12:15):
bots out there that take yournumber or I know that they're a
safe person to have an abilityto contact me at any time.
Another thing that's safe islike I don't send explicit
photos, but that you know otherpeople do, but for me I don't.
I don't take, I don't do anyexplicit photos with a person
unless we're in a long you know,unless we're in a relationship,
(12:38):
and that safety has alreadybeen built.
So locations like where we'regoing to meet I want to meet
somebody in a public place.
I recently had somebody ask meon a date and then asked me to
pick him up and drive him and Iwas like I'm not going to go
have you in my car, who I havenever even met, and then he
invited me to his house.
I'm like no, no, no, like let'sjust meet and have coffee and
(13:00):
make sure that, like we're good.
But this is something like Ihad to learn, I think, like when
I was 20 or 30, I would havebeen like sure, Okay, because I
want to please people.
So that's kind of like the, andI feel like safety has to come
first, like that is just thefoundation of anything, of
everything, of everyrelationship.
Right, we have to feel safewith one another.
(13:20):
So talking about that, then thenext T is things that I like.
And it was so interestingbecause when I first started
this work, like I didn't evenknow what I liked Like.
People said, like, what do youlike, what do you like to do?
When I ask my patients,sometimes they come in and
they're like, oh, my libido'sgone.
(13:42):
I'm like, well, are you havingsex the way you want to?
Like that you like?
They're always like, oh,especially if they're in a
female body and they considerthemselves a cisgendered woman.
Oftentimes they're like, well,yeah, my husband takes care of
me, he makes sure I orgasm, andI'm like, yes, but are you still
?
Are you having the sex you wantto have?
(14:02):
Because so much of what we thinkabout what sex is, and
especially in a heterosexual,cisgendered context, is
penetrative sex, that is, andlike penetrative sex, where the
person with a penis ends up, youknow, having an orgasm.
Then you feel, okay, we weresuccessful here, right, and then
(14:22):
hopefully, like the person witha vulva and vagina gets to
orgasm too.
But there's such an orgasm gapis unaddressed because we don't
know, we don't realize likethere's so many other ways of
getting turned on, realize likethere's so many other ways of
getting turned on and andspeaking about that and like
knowing what it is could be soempowering and like taking that
(14:42):
again, slowing down getting intoyour body.
Do I really like being touchedin this manner, or do I want to
be touched softer?
Or do I want to be touchedslower?
Or do I really need, like, aconversation with a person
before I get turned on?
Do I need to just like feelcomfortable and feel safe and to
(15:03):
get turned on so you know,really understanding, like a lot
of the stars talk.
What's so great about it, too,is it really is for us to
understand ourselves.
It really is a way for us toinquire into like wow, this is I
, like you know, having my hairtugged a little bit, I never
knew that and allowing us toexplore different sensations and
(15:28):
different ways that are notjust about penetration and
orgasm.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, for sure, I talk about that a lot too, so I
am right there with you.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
So learning about that, so empowering and and it's
amazing to me how, how it'ssuch a newer concept, especially
to people, you know, who are alittle older.
And then, you know, withyounger adults who are just
exploring, we, a lot of them,them like, what does supposed to
turn us on?
And so much sex education,especially for youth and young
(16:01):
adults, is coming frompornography.
And then there's this thinglike, oh my gosh, I'm supposed
to like that.
I had somebody once come up tome and and talk about dating and
and she was like, do I have tobe choked?
Is that like something I justhave to do now, because that's
what all the men are doing?
And I'm like, oh my God, like,well, only if it's one of your
(16:21):
turn ons.
But, leading me to the avoids,you know, section, it's like
it's okay to not like somethingthat everybody is doing.
You know I don't necessarilylike to be spanked, like, hey,
you know, like it's, justbecause you think that
everybody's liking it doesn'tmean that I like it.
So, you know, talking about thethings that we don't want and
(16:42):
the things that may, and, if welike, taking a step even deeper,
like the things that we knowmay cause us trauma and that's
so big.
I mean that's so big so big.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I mean, that's so big and yeah, and even if, if, if
it is a trauma response and aguy doesn't know what's going on
, he could you know, or theother person could take it like
have no idea what's going onSuddenly they get, like you said
, in the fight mode and thenyou're like whoa, and then if
you don't talk about it, youhave no idea and then you're
wondering forever.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, you know, one of the trauma responses.
I think that, uh, and I'mtalking definitely, I'm going to
just name it then I'm talkingfrom a cisgendered woman's
perspective who is a gen xer.
Okay, so I was brought up to avery specific time where, you
know, we went through first wavefeminism, second wave feminism
and you know things were alittle different then.
So I'm coming from aperspective of, like people
pleasing and um fawningawning,and these are these trauma
(17:40):
responses, some dissociationtrauma responses that I have,
that when they're in the contextof a sexual encounter, could
look like I'm having fun.
You know that I'm enjoying it,even though it might be a trauma
response.
One personal example for me isthat one time I was having, I
(18:02):
was playing with a very longterm partner, so a partner that
really knew me well and we'rewe're kind of roughhousing more
than we normally did, and all ofa sudden he slapped me and
immediately I just went intokind of this dissociative state
where I was just like out of it,because it was so shocking for
(18:22):
me and it was something that Iobviously had, like I didn't
know that that was going to be atrauma response, but we never
talked about it, we never didthis and so you know we're
together for almost two decades.
So you know it was a longrelationship together for almost
two decades.
So you know it was a longrelationship and and I could see
how with some people, like ifthey're in the middle of an
encounter with somebody theydon't know, that kind of like
(18:44):
dissociation could look likethey're really into sex or the
man or the person who's withthem, their partner might think
that they're just maybe so intotheir own body that they're not,
they're not attuning to eachother, like With the turn-ons
and avoids.
So much of that conversation isreally about learning how to
attune to one another.
If we recognize that we allhave trauma and we recognize
(19:08):
that our bodies give us wisdom,then we can actually become
attuned to one another throughthis trauma awareness.
I like that calledtrauma-attuned consent.
So with our voids, of course weneed our boundaries.
Our boundaries are I want tojust name I just read this
wonderful kind of post aboutthis by Betty Martin, who does
(19:30):
the Wheel of Consent and herwork is really pivotal and
really important work aroundconsent and she called
boundaries our limitations.
You know, like those limitsthat we have with each other and
then you know, when we are ableto negotiate those limits so
that they could be a little bitmore flexible and fluid with one
another.
And the way we do that isthrough attuning to our bodies,
(19:54):
attuning to our partners, andlearning that attunement is
going to require us havingconversations.
So then, so our turn-ons andavoids could change, and then,
you know, they could be both andit could depend on the
situation.
But really having an idea oflike, oh, these are my turn-ons,
listen, these are my like hardno's and this is my boundaries
(20:16):
that I need people to navigateand these might be some of my
trauma responses.
So like, oh, these are myturn-ons, listen, these are my
like hard no's and this is myboundaries that I need people to
navigate and these might besome of my trauma responses.
So like having an understandingof ourselves in that and I
really encourage people to writethis down you know that we all
keep a little stars document for, not that we necessarily share
with other people, but that wehave for ourselves.
And then we could track as wechange and grow, because we do
(20:38):
and then the R the R isoftentimes the place we actually
naturally start in a starsconversation because it's what
we want.
It's what sex means to us, it'swhat our intentions are when we
date, when we're in arelationship like what do we
want?
What do we get?
And then the ways and then theexpectations of to be treated.
Like how do I, what is myaftercare needs?
(21:02):
Like bringing that back in tothe conversation.
I know I had a person once tellme like, oh, you know, after sex
I need space, like I need tojust get back into my body.
I don't want to touch, I don'twant to cuddle, I just want to
like be alone.
So oftentimes I have to get outof the bed, jump out of bed and
go to the bathroom so I couldjust like be alone.
(21:23):
Because if I lie in bed and mypartner wants to cuddle, like
then I I hurt their feelingsbecause that's not what I need.
And I'm like did you ever tellanybody that?
Like, have you told yourpartners that what you need is
just a little bit of self,getting back into your body,
into yourself?
They're like no, wow.
And I'm like yeah, see, that'san aftercare need, that's an
(21:44):
aftercare need and we areallowed to claim it, we're
allowed a lot of attention.
And you're with somebody who'slike oh no, I need space.
Wow, that's a terrible time tofind that out after you've had
sex or after you've beenintimate.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, for sure, I was just thinking that the other
person, if there's basicallywhat you said, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So claiming what it and again, some of us don't even
know that's what we need, whichis kind of this unconscious
thing.
I often think, like you know,back when we used to see movies
and everybody would have thecigarette after sex.
See, that was an aftercare need, an aftercare need to kind of
like relax and get back intoourselves.
It wasn't really that theyneeded the cigarette, it was
(22:31):
just more like they needed thatlittle break in space of
self-care.
Like they needed that littlebreak in space of self-care.
So, you know, it's a bigquestion of like, what is?
What does sex mean to me?
Right, what does sex mean to me?
Why am I going to, why do Iwant to have this intimate time
with this person?
(22:52):
And it can mean many things,like sometimes it means just a
physical release, Sometimes itmeans an intimacy need that
could be met.
Sometimes it means oh no, itmeans that we're in a committed
relationship now.
Sometimes it means we're goingto have a baby.
I love when we start thinkingabout sex outside of penetrative
(23:16):
sex I put this in big quoteslike queer sex right, because
it's sometimes like thealternative communities and
queer communities that couldteach us that.
And like Tantra and BDSM, likeall of these communities, really
kind of help broaden thespectrum of what is available,
what is accessible.
(23:36):
Broadened the spectrum of whatis available, what is accessible
, normalizing all the differentthings that we need to have
relationships and relationshipsare really an important part of
why we get together and beingclear with ourselves of our
intentions kind of helps usnavigate that.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, and I was going to say too, now with the
alternative lifestyles ofpolyamory and different stuff
like that and that's a lot moreof that going on and consensual
non-monogamy, I don't know that.
I would imagine that it fallsin your R as well.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Oh, definitely, definitely in the R.
I mean, because we need to talkabout things like that.
And if you're coming from anethical, non-monogamy
perspective, then you aretalking about things like that.
And you were talking aboutagreements that you may have
with your partners, and this isdefinitely where it comes in.
Like I often say, like we startthe R with understanding how we
identify and how we orient.
(24:31):
So do you identify likewhatever that means to you, like
I'm oriented at this moment asthis I personally have
identified as many differentthings.
I've identified as a monogamous,heterosexual married person.
I've identified as a bisexualwoman.
I've identified as a pansexual,you know, and they change.
(24:51):
I've identified as monogamous,as polyamorous, and it's not
like you're always one thing.
I mean, some people are alwaysone thing, but other people,
like me kind of, are able to youkind of navigate life for where
it shows up for me.
And so, starting like and whatyou need, like I write
(25:13):
personally, like right now I'm,I am single and I'm holding, I'm
not really dating, I'm likedealing with a lot of life
things, but if I was to date,I'm looking for more of a
monogamous or monogamoussituation.
So like I have to put that upfront.
I don't want to date somebodyand not tell them the truth
about where I'm at, um, and then, you know, at times when I've
(25:36):
had multiple partners goingthrough like this is where my
agreements are with this person,and because I believe that if
we are in a bigger sexualnetwork, it's important that we
take care of each other, andcommunicating each other's needs
is really important.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So that's the R and then the big one and then the
scary one at the very end.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
The big one, the scary one it's really shouldn't
be that scary is our sexualhealth needs and disclosing sti
status.
You know, it's interesting thatyou call it scary and because
because it's so scary, we don'tdo it.
Because it's so scary, peoplejust kind't do it.
Because it's so scary, peoplejust kind of like bypass it,
especially if you're someone whocarries a chronic STI like
(26:23):
herpes or HPV or HIV or evenhepatitis B or C.
You know, some of these virusesare with us for our whole life.
So it is important that wedisclose.
But that feeling of rejectioncould be so scary and rejection
isn't just a thought.
I mean, when people feelrejected it's in our bodies,
(26:44):
right, going back into thatsomatic stage.
It's in our bodies and it hurts.
And if you're being rejectedabout something you have no
control over, such as herpes,then that's really something you
may not always want to tell,especially if you're like, oh,
it doesn't matter, I'm nevergoing to see that person again.
I have a very good friend.
(27:05):
In fact I'm wearing a shirt.
I just want to show you thisshirt.
It's a stigma with STI.
That's a race stigma, and theway that we erase stigma and the
way that we navigate thesedifficult conversations is by
normalizing that, and the morewe are saying to each other I
have herpes on my mouth or mygenitals, or I have had a
(27:30):
positive HPV or whatever it isthat one has, the more we
realize how many people actuallyhave it and the more we can
actually again get rid of thestigma associated with the
things that happen when we havesex.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, especially herpes, like I have several
people have mentioned.
Oh, I started getting like onmy mouth when I was eight or
nine and like, and then to haveto have a myth.
You know that is so bad andlike terrible and yeah, the
whole thing have a myth.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You know that is so bad and like terrible and yeah,
the whole thing Absolutely.
And you know, I feel prettyimpassioned about this because I
feel STIs are really like ourmetaphor for our sex negativity
and that's what makes it so hard, because we all carry this like
like sex is a bad thing.
It's something that weshouldn't be doing, only should
be doing in this context, and ifwe do it in that context, we
(28:19):
should never have an STI.
I mean, I have plenty ofpatients who've had one partner
and they have herpes, or onepartner and they have HPV.
It's not about it just happens.
I often I'd like to tell, justremind people that over a
million people have died fromCOVID since 2020.
Nobody has died from genitalherpes.
(28:40):
And yet which one are westigmatizing?
Which one are we so scared of?
It's not about the virus, it'snot about the infection.
It's about how we get theinfection and how scary it is to
have an infection that couldimpact our sexuality.
So that's kind of that's thestars.
You know, that's the stars talk.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, awesome, yeah.
And then, like I said, wecovered in episode 14, but this
is much more in depth and youwere the creator of it, so
definitely cool to hear.
And then the stuff that you'veadded since.
So, yeah, as you've refined it.
So, are there any closingcomments you want to leave the
listeners with?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, you know, I do have a free workbook on Make
Time for the Talk, which is thewebsite, because I want to
remind people to make time forthe talk and again, it could be
a conversation.
It doesn't have to beformularic and it actually could
be quite fun and even a littlesexy and it actually could be
quite fun and even a little sexy.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
And if you want to I forgot to mention if you want to
have people be able to reachout to you, or just more of the
website is enough.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, yeah, you could find me on the website and you
could find me on social media OnInstagram, I'm at sexmeddoc,
and Facebook, I'm on EvelineDacker and you could find me at
all those different places.
And, yeah, I'm on EvelineDecker and you can find me at
all those different places.
And, yeah, I'd love to talkabout this and thank you so much
for having me on your show.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yes, thank you very much for being on.
It's super cool to have you Allright.
Thanks everyone.
If you love this episode, besure to tell your friends about
it and rate it as well.
And thank you again, dr Decker.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
podcast.
Frank talk about sex and dating.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello, Tamara here, Welcome to the show.
Today's guest is familyphysician Dr Eveline
Molina-Dacker, who specializesin sexuality and sexual health,
and we'll be talking about howto have conversations about sex.
Thanks for joining me, DrDacker.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hi.
Yes, I'm excited to be herewith you today.
Thank you, hi.
Yes, I'm excited to be herewith you today.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thank you.
Well, everyone is having sexgenerally not everyone, of
course, but talking about it isthe harder part of it.
So having a lens on somatic andtrauma attuned.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, yeah, you know it is.
It's really hard to talk aboutsex and I know that there's
other.
You've had other podcasts aboutpeople talking about sex and I
know that there's other.
You've had other podcasts aboutpeople talking about sex and we
always say like we have to havethis conversation and it's a
really important conversation tohave.
But what I found was a missingpiece in it is having a way to
remember what to talk about andhaving some kind of framework
(01:02):
for us to understand our ownsexual desires and needs.
I know for myself, being a GenXer, that in my sex education we
never really talked about whatwas important.
So I had to learn all of thesethings as an adult.
And then I came up with likewow, everybody talks about
(01:24):
talking about sex, but nobodyhas a way of doing it.
Then I came up with like wow,everybody talks about talking
about sex but like nobody has away of doing it.
So I came up with a framework.
I came up with a framework formyself.
I came up with a framework formy patients, because I am a
family physician, and aframework for my young adult
children as they were enteringcollege, and I call that
framework the STARS talk.
(01:45):
Some people call it the STARSmethod.
It's really just a way ofremembering the five what I
think is like essential thingsthat we need to be able to have
these conversations.
The STARS talk and it's anacronym.
It stands for safety and kindof our safety needs.
It stands for our turn-ons, orthe things we like, our avoids,
(02:06):
which are our boundaries orthings we don't like our
relationship, what our valuesare, what our expectations, what
our intentions are in thoserelationships.
And then at the very end, wetalk about our sexual healthT-I
disclosure and status.
So that's the basic frameworkof it and it's been developed
(02:28):
over the last.
How many years like eight yearsI've been working on this and
it shifted and changed a littlebit, and now I like to call it
as a way of having atrauma-attuned consensual
conversation with a person Backat episode 14, where she talked
about the method, and now I'mtalking to the person that
actually created the method.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So I think that's pretty cool.
So, yeah, say and yeah, I meanyou just you pretty much said
why or how it came about.
So then, how easy is it forpeople to do, or what have you?
What have people come across?
Or yeah yeah, how does it help?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah.
So you know it's interesting.
I'll tell you a little bitabout the origin story because
sometimes people are like well,where did that come from?
So you know, when I was in mymid forties going through like
my menopausal you know,perimenopausal phase or entering
it, I started and being afamily physician watching women
go through this transition, Ithought, oh my gosh, like I'm
(03:27):
going to lose my sexuality and Idon't want to lose my sexuality
, so what do I do to not lose it?
So I started taking a lot ofcourses on sexuality, on sexual
health, and that's kind of whenI pivoted my work from just
being a functional andintegrative holistic family
physician to doing more specificsexual medicine.
(03:48):
I also do a lot of menopausemedicine.
I work with a lot of peoplegoing through life transitions.
So during my going to doing allthese classes, I heard about
people having these elevatortalks.
And the elevator talks is likewhen you're about to go for a
hookup or some kind of sex andyou kind of give them your
(04:08):
download, like this is what Ilike, this is what I don't like
and this is it.
And I thought, oh my gosh, thisis so fascinating.
Like why doesn't everybody dosome version of this.
And then, like I also went tolike I learned about kink and I
realized, oh, look, people whodo kink like actually have these
negotiation talks before theydo a scene.
(04:29):
And not only do they have thesenegotiation talks before they do
a scene, they also talk aboutwhat they want afterward and
they make a point of aftercare,like after the scene is done.
They do stuff Like they hug orthey give each other, like maybe
you get some ice cream, I don'tknow, you get something.
So I was like wow, howfascinating is that the people
(04:49):
do this.
And then, as I learned a littlebit more about Tantra and
sacred sexuality, I kind oflearned about how people make
bubbles and they create thesebubbles where they could
actually again talk about theirdesires and what they don't want
and their boundaries.
And I was like this is amazing,like why doesn't everybody do
this?
And I came to this idea that,like if everybody in the world
(05:12):
knew that there was a way ofactually communicating and had
some kind of framework to puttheir thoughts and their desires
in, and everybody could just belike, hey, let's do our stars
talk before you actually likeengage in any intimate behavior,
I was like that could reallychange everything.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, and I like that you
add the kink in the tantra.
Yes, tantra.
Yeah, because I haven't hadmany episodes about it, but I
know of tantra, so I'm glad thatyou encompass or brought in all
that stuff and it's a greatbackground to have about.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, you know, with my medical part and
talking to people from allphases, you know, as a family
physician too, like I work withpeople from babies until they
die, so I have this beautifulwindow into life and life
spectrum and because I've workedin the same community for
almost 30 years, I have somepatients that I've seen through
(06:06):
so much.
You know I really like toaddress and sex is not something
that's often discussed in amedical like.
Usually my patients feel likethey have to bring it up because
doctors have such a hard timewanting to talk about sex unless
there's a problem.
So I really was making this.
As I said, I was making thisframework for myself to learn
how do I could haveconversations with my patients,
(06:29):
also to be able to teach mypatients, because I had so many
coming in, you know, recentlydivorced, who ended up coming in
with chlamydia or gonorrhea,and I'm like, did you talk about
, like STIs and and and safersex?
They're like, oh, we don't haveto because we been married so
long, or I'm not going to getpregnant, so I don't use condoms
, and I'm like, well, you couldstill get chlamydia, like your
(06:53):
test shows me, or you stillcould get an STI.
So talking about things issomething I realized was such a
gap in most people'sunderstanding of how to do.
I'll be the first one to raisemy hand.
I'm not a sex therapist.
I didn't go and become acertified sex educator.
All of my education came fromkind of real life and going and
(07:15):
actually getting to knowdifferent subcultures, and so
tantra, or I call it like it'sneo-tantra, it's kind of sacred
sexuality.
It's about really getting inyour body and understanding.
It taught me a lot aboutsomatics.
What is somatics?
Somatics is a way of gettinginto our bodies and listening
(07:39):
deeper and being able to use ourbody's wisdom to help guide us
in the way we navigate the world.
And so much of my newerthinking about the stars talk
comes from a somatic lens aswell, because, again, when I
went to medical school, welearned how to treat a body.
(08:00):
We learned how a body functions, we learned how to fix things
that go wrong, but we weren'ttaught how to be in our body.
People don't know how to dothat.
I almost feel like we'rewalking just talking heads and
we're not connected to this.
So this goes into my very firstS.
So the very first S in thestars talk is safety needs.
(08:24):
Before.
When you think about sex andsafety needs you think about
like condoms and reproductionand how to prevent an undesired
pregnancy or an undesiredoutcome.
I kind of switched that thatreally safety is about.
What does it feel like beingsafe?
Like, how do you know you'resafe?
How do you know that certaintouch is safe?
(08:45):
How do you know that there'sthings you don't want and could
we take a breath and go into ourbody's wisdom and figure that
out?
How do we trust you know, whenyou're in a situation that you
just inherently feel a littleick about, but then we tend to
if you're a people pleaser or ifyou're someone who's taught to
override that like then youdon't learn how to trust that
(09:07):
ick feeling.
So you know a lot of what Iteach with the Star Talk is like
trust that feeling.
Like, where does that feelingcome from?
Trust it Then.
How do you communicate what youneed to stay in the place where
you feel good and this helps.
This is part of that wholetrauma-attuned consent lens,
(09:28):
that trauma-attuned.
So if we don't recognize that,we live in a world where
everybody has some level oftrauma.
I don't care if it's little Tor big T trauma, but you all
have some.
And then understand that whenwe have a trauma response,
really it's our body trying tokeep ourselves safe and what do
(09:48):
we need and what triggers those,and can we let someone know?
Oh, you know, by the way, ifyou end up I'm going to just use
something.
If you call me a slut, you know, for some people that could be
a turn on right In this rightcontext, but in other contexts
it could feel really icky and itcould feel like, oh my God, now
(10:10):
I'm not safe and this is theway my body responds.
In this trauma response I endup fighting, I end up having a
fight reflex.
So if you see me starting tofight, I could clue you in to
let you know that, oh, youmight've triggered something and
let's have a conversation overwhat that could navigate.
Now I understand this is prettyhigh end.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's not like I'm going to meet somebody at a bar
and be like, oh, this is mytrauma, this is, you know um,
yeah, like as you're in it orclose to it, yeah, yeah, and a
lot of women have a hard timetalking about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So, having a method where you it's like tuning into
yourself and thinking what do Ineed to feel safe in an intimate
(11:11):
environment, vulnerable context.
So then you know, once you kindof work in that, then what do I
need to communicate to anotherperson so that I'm safe in that
engagement?
So, for example, alcohol,that's one of my safety needs.
Like, if somebody is drinking alot, I don't feel safe.
(11:31):
If somebody tends to be a heavydrinker, that creates
situations for me where I'm notgoing to trust their yeses and
they can't really trust my yes.
So one of my safety needs thatI very much communicate with
people is that if you drink morethan two drinks of alcohol,
then any intimacy is off thetable, unless we're in a deeper
(11:55):
relationship and we know eachother and we have navigated that
In the beginning.
Yes, that is one of my safetyneeds.
Another one of my safety needsis I don't give my phone number
out on dating apps.
I don't want to give my phonenumber out until I meet a person
face-to-face and I know they'rereal, because I know there's
(12:15):
bots out there that take yournumber or I know that they're a
safe person to have an abilityto contact me at any time.
Another thing that's safe islike I don't send explicit
photos, but that you know otherpeople do, but for me I don't.
I don't take, I don't do anyexplicit photos with a person
unless we're in a long you know,unless we're in a relationship,
(12:38):
and that safety has alreadybeen built.
So locations like where we'regoing to meet I want to meet
somebody in a public place.
I recently had somebody ask meon a date and then asked me to
pick him up and drive him and Iwas like I'm not going to go
have you in my car, who I havenever even met, and then he
invited me to his house.
I'm like no, no, no, like let'sjust meet and have coffee and
(13:00):
make sure that, like we're good.
But this is something like Ihad to learn, I think, like when
I was 20 or 30, I would havebeen like sure, Okay, because I
want to please people.
So that's kind of like the, andI feel like safety has to come
first, like that is just thefoundation of anything, of
everything, of everyrelationship.
Right, we have to feel safewith one another.
(13:20):
So talking about that, then thenext T is things that I like.
And it was so interestingbecause when I first started
this work, like I didn't evenknow what I liked Like.
People said, like, what do youlike, what do you like to do?
When I ask my patients,sometimes they come in and
they're like, oh, my libido'sgone.
(13:42):
I'm like, well, are you havingsex the way you want to?
Like that you like?
They're always like, oh,especially if they're in a
female body and they considerthemselves a cisgendered woman.
Oftentimes they're like, well,yeah, my husband takes care of
me, he makes sure I orgasm, andI'm like, yes, but are you still
?
Are you having the sex you wantto have?
(14:02):
Because so much of what we thinkabout what sex is, and
especially in a heterosexual,cisgendered context, is
penetrative sex, that is, andlike penetrative sex, where the
person with a penis ends up, youknow, having an orgasm.
Then you feel, okay, we weresuccessful here, right, and then
(14:22):
hopefully, like the person witha vulva and vagina gets to
orgasm too.
But there's such an orgasm gapis unaddressed because we don't
know, we don't realize likethere's so many other ways of
getting turned on, realize likethere's so many other ways of
getting turned on and andspeaking about that and like
knowing what it is could be soempowering and like taking that
(14:42):
again, slowing down getting intoyour body.
Do I really like being touchedin this manner, or do I want to
be touched softer?
Or do I want to be touchedslower?
Or do I really need, like, aconversation with a person
before I get turned on?
Do I need to just like feelcomfortable and feel safe and to
(15:03):
get turned on so you know,really understanding, like a lot
of the stars talk.
What's so great about it, too,is it really is for us to
understand ourselves.
It really is a way for us toinquire into like wow, this is I
, like you know, having my hairtugged a little bit, I never
knew that and allowing us toexplore different sensations and
(15:28):
different ways that are notjust about penetration and
orgasm.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, for sure, I talk about that a lot too, so I
am right there with you.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
So learning about that, so empowering and and it's
amazing to me how, how it'ssuch a newer concept, especially
to people, you know, who are alittle older.
And then, you know, withyounger adults who are just
exploring, we, a lot of them,them like, what does supposed to
turn us on?
And so much sex education,especially for youth and young
(16:01):
adults, is coming frompornography.
And then there's this thinglike, oh my gosh, I'm supposed
to like that.
I had somebody once come up tome and and talk about dating and
and she was like, do I have tobe choked?
Is that like something I justhave to do now, because that's
what all the men are doing?
And I'm like, oh my God, like,well, only if it's one of your
(16:21):
turn ons.
But, leading me to the avoids,you know, section, it's like
it's okay to not like somethingthat everybody is doing.
You know I don't necessarilylike to be spanked, like, hey,
you know, like it's, justbecause you think that
everybody's liking it doesn'tmean that I like it.
So, you know, talking about thethings that we don't want and
(16:42):
the things that may, and, if welike, taking a step even deeper,
like the things that we knowmay cause us trauma and that's
so big.
I mean that's so big so big.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I mean, that's so big and yeah, and even if, if, if
it is a trauma response and aguy doesn't know what's going on
, he could you know, or theother person could take it like
have no idea what's going onSuddenly they get, like you said
, in the fight mode and thenyou're like whoa, and then if
you don't talk about it, youhave no idea and then you're
wondering forever.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, you know, one of the trauma responses.
I think that, uh, and I'mtalking definitely, I'm going to
just name it then I'm talkingfrom a cisgendered woman's
perspective who is a gen xer.
Okay, so I was brought up to avery specific time where, you
know, we went through first wavefeminism, second wave feminism
and you know things were alittle different then.
So I'm coming from aperspective of, like people
pleasing and um fawningawning,and these are these trauma
(17:40):
responses, some dissociationtrauma responses that I have,
that when they're in the contextof a sexual encounter, could
look like I'm having fun.
You know that I'm enjoying it,even though it might be a trauma
response.
One personal example for me isthat one time I was having, I
(18:02):
was playing with a very longterm partner, so a partner that
really knew me well and we'rewe're kind of roughhousing more
than we normally did, and all ofa sudden he slapped me and
immediately I just went intokind of this dissociative state
where I was just like out of it,because it was so shocking for
(18:22):
me and it was something that Iobviously had, like I didn't
know that that was going to be atrauma response, but we never
talked about it, we never didthis and so you know we're
together for almost two decades.
So you know it was a longrelationship together for almost
two decades.
So you know it was a longrelationship and and I could see
how with some people, like ifthey're in the middle of an
encounter with somebody theydon't know, that kind of like
(18:44):
dissociation could look likethey're really into sex or the
man or the person who's withthem, their partner might think
that they're just maybe so intotheir own body that they're not,
they're not attuning to eachother, like With the turn-ons
and avoids.
So much of that conversation isreally about learning how to
attune to one another.
If we recognize that we allhave trauma and we recognize
(19:08):
that our bodies give us wisdom,then we can actually become
attuned to one another throughthis trauma awareness.
I like that calledtrauma-attuned consent.
So with our voids, of course weneed our boundaries.
Our boundaries are I want tojust name I just read this
wonderful kind of post aboutthis by Betty Martin, who does
(19:30):
the Wheel of Consent and herwork is really pivotal and
really important work aroundconsent and she called
boundaries our limitations.
You know, like those limitsthat we have with each other and
then you know, when we are ableto negotiate those limits so
that they could be a little bitmore flexible and fluid with one
another.
And the way we do that isthrough attuning to our bodies,
(19:54):
attuning to our partners, andlearning that attunement is
going to require us havingconversations.
So then, so our turn-ons andavoids could change, and then,
you know, they could be both andit could depend on the
situation.
But really having an idea oflike, oh, these are my turn-ons,
listen, these are my like hardno's and this is my boundaries
(20:16):
that I need people to navigateand these might be some of my
trauma responses.
So like, oh, these are myturn-ons, listen, these are my
like hard no's and this is myboundaries that I need people to
navigate and these might besome of my trauma responses.
So like having an understandingof ourselves in that and I
really encourage people to writethis down you know that we all
keep a little stars document for, not that we necessarily share
with other people, but that wehave for ourselves.
And then we could track as wechange and grow, because we do
(20:38):
and then the R the R isoftentimes the place we actually
naturally start in a starsconversation because it's what
we want.
It's what sex means to us, it'swhat our intentions are when we
date, when we're in arelationship like what do we
want?
What do we get?
And then the ways and then theexpectations of to be treated.
Like how do I, what is myaftercare needs?
(21:02):
Like bringing that back in tothe conversation.
I know I had a person once tellme like, oh, you know, after sex
I need space, like I need tojust get back into my body.
I don't want to touch, I don'twant to cuddle, I just want to
like be alone.
So oftentimes I have to get outof the bed, jump out of bed and
go to the bathroom so I couldjust like be alone.
(21:23):
Because if I lie in bed and mypartner wants to cuddle, like
then I I hurt their feelingsbecause that's not what I need.
And I'm like did you ever tellanybody that?
Like, have you told yourpartners that what you need is
just a little bit of self,getting back into your body,
into yourself?
They're like no, wow.
And I'm like yeah, see, that'san aftercare need, that's an
(21:44):
aftercare need and we areallowed to claim it, we're
allowed a lot of attention.
And you're with somebody who'slike oh no, I need space.
Wow, that's a terrible time tofind that out after you've had
sex or after you've beenintimate.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, for sure, I was just thinking that the other
person, if there's basicallywhat you said, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So claiming what it and again, some of us don't even
know that's what we need, whichis kind of this unconscious
thing.
I often think, like you know,back when we used to see movies
and everybody would have thecigarette after sex.
See, that was an aftercare need, an aftercare need to kind of
like relax and get back intoourselves.
It wasn't really that theyneeded the cigarette, it was
(22:31):
just more like they needed thatlittle break in space of
self-care.
Like they needed that littlebreak in space of self-care.
So, you know, it's a bigquestion of like, what is?
What does sex mean to me?
Right, what does sex mean to me?
Why am I going to, why do Iwant to have this intimate time
with this person?
(22:52):
And it can mean many things,like sometimes it means just a
physical release, Sometimes itmeans an intimacy need that
could be met.
Sometimes it means oh no, itmeans that we're in a committed
relationship now.
Sometimes it means we're goingto have a baby.
I love when we start thinkingabout sex outside of penetrative
(23:16):
sex I put this in big quoteslike queer sex right, because
it's sometimes like thealternative communities and
queer communities that couldteach us that.
And like Tantra and BDSM, likeall of these communities, really
kind of help broaden thespectrum of what is available,
what is accessible.
(23:36):
Broadened the spectrum of whatis available, what is accessible
, normalizing all the differentthings that we need to have
relationships and relationshipsare really an important part of
why we get together and beingclear with ourselves of our
intentions kind of helps usnavigate that.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, and I was going to say too, now with the
alternative lifestyles ofpolyamory and different stuff
like that and that's a lot moreof that going on and consensual
non-monogamy, I don't know that.
I would imagine that it fallsin your R as well.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Oh, definitely, definitely in the R.
I mean, because we need to talkabout things like that.
And if you're coming from anethical, non-monogamy
perspective, then you aretalking about things like that.
And you were talking aboutagreements that you may have
with your partners, and this isdefinitely where it comes in.
Like I often say, like we startthe R with understanding how we
identify and how we orient.
(24:31):
So do you identify likewhatever that means to you, like
I'm oriented at this moment asthis I personally have
identified as many differentthings.
I've identified as a monogamous,heterosexual married person.
I've identified as a bisexualwoman.
I've identified as a pansexual,you know, and they change.
(24:51):
I've identified as monogamous,as polyamorous, and it's not
like you're always one thing.
I mean, some people are alwaysone thing, but other people,
like me kind of, are able to youkind of navigate life for where
it shows up for me.
And so, starting like and whatyou need, like I write
(25:13):
personally, like right now I'm,I am single and I'm holding, I'm
not really dating, I'm likedealing with a lot of life
things, but if I was to date,I'm looking for more of a
monogamous or monogamoussituation.
So like I have to put that upfront.
I don't want to date somebodyand not tell them the truth
about where I'm at, um, and then, you know, at times when I've
(25:36):
had multiple partners goingthrough like this is where my
agreements are with this person,and because I believe that if
we are in a bigger sexualnetwork, it's important that we
take care of each other, andcommunicating each other's needs
is really important.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So that's the R and then the big one and then the
scary one at the very end.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
The big one, the scary one it's really shouldn't
be that scary is our sexualhealth needs and disclosing sti
status.
You know, it's interesting thatyou call it scary and because
because it's so scary, we don'tdo it.
Because it's so scary, peoplejust kind't do it.
Because it's so scary, peoplejust kind of like bypass it,
especially if you're someone whocarries a chronic STI like
(26:23):
herpes or HPV or HIV or evenhepatitis B or C.
You know, some of these virusesare with us for our whole life.
So it is important that wedisclose.
But that feeling of rejectioncould be so scary and rejection
isn't just a thought.
I mean, when people feelrejected it's in our bodies,
(26:44):
right, going back into thatsomatic stage.
It's in our bodies and it hurts.
And if you're being rejectedabout something you have no
control over, such as herpes,then that's really something you
may not always want to tell,especially if you're like, oh,
it doesn't matter, I'm nevergoing to see that person again.
I have a very good friend.
(27:05):
In fact I'm wearing a shirt.
I just want to show you thisshirt.
It's a stigma with STI.
That's a race stigma, and theway that we erase stigma and the
way that we navigate thesedifficult conversations is by
normalizing that, and the morewe are saying to each other I
have herpes on my mouth or mygenitals, or I have had a
(27:30):
positive HPV or whatever it isthat one has, the more we
realize how many people actuallyhave it and the more we can
actually again get rid of thestigma associated with the
things that happen when we havesex.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, especially herpes, like I have several
people have mentioned.
Oh, I started getting like onmy mouth when I was eight or
nine and like, and then to haveto have a myth.
You know that is so bad andlike terrible and yeah, the
whole thing have a myth.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You know that is so bad and like terrible and yeah,
the whole thing Absolutely.
And you know, I feel prettyimpassioned about this because I
feel STIs are really like ourmetaphor for our sex negativity
and that's what makes it so hard, because we all carry this like
like sex is a bad thing.
It's something that weshouldn't be doing, only should
be doing in this context, and ifwe do it in that context, we
(28:19):
should never have an STI.
I mean, I have plenty ofpatients who've had one partner
and they have herpes, or onepartner and they have HPV.
It's not about it just happens.
I often I'd like to tell, justremind people that over a
million people have died fromCOVID since 2020.
Nobody has died from genitalherpes.
(28:40):
And yet which one are westigmatizing?
Which one are we so scared of?
It's not about the virus, it'snot about the infection.
It's about how we get theinfection and how scary it is to
have an infection that couldimpact our sexuality.
So that's kind of that's thestars.
You know, that's the stars talk.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, awesome, yeah.
And then, like I said, wecovered in episode 14, but this
is much more in depth and youwere the creator of it, so
definitely cool to hear.
And then the stuff that you'veadded since.
So, yeah, as you've refined it.
So, are there any closingcomments you want to leave the
listeners with?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, you know, I do have a free workbook on Make
Time for the Talk, which is thewebsite, because I want to
remind people to make time forthe talk and again, it could be
a conversation.
It doesn't have to beformularic and it actually could
be quite fun and even a littlesexy and it actually could be
quite fun and even a little sexy.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
And if you want to I forgot to mention if you want to
have people be able to reachout to you, or just more of the
website is enough.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, yeah, you could find me on the website and you
could find me on social media OnInstagram, I'm at sexmeddoc,
and Facebook, I'm on EvelineDacker and you could find me at
all those different places.
And, yeah, I'm on EvelineDecker and you can find me at
all those different places.
And, yeah, I'd love to talkabout this and thank you so much
for having me on your show.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yes, thank you very much for being on.
It's super cool to have you Allright.
Thanks everyone.
If you love this episode, besure to tell your friends about
it and rate it as well.
And thank you again, dr Decker.
Thank you.
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