August 26, 2025 • 31 mins
Ever wondered why your relationships follow the same frustrating patterns? The answer might lie in your attachment style—a psychological blueprint formed in early childhood that shapes how you connect with others throughout your life. In this eye-opening episode, certified relationship and attachment trauma practitioner Bev Miteleman, M.A. reveals how these unconscious patterns dramatically impact our sex lives.
What makes this conversation so powerful is how Mitelman connects the dots between our earliest bonding experiences and our adult sexual behaviors. She expertly breaks down the four attachment styles—secure, anxious-preoccupied, dismissive-avoidant, and fearful-avoidant—explaining how each approaches intimacy differently. The anxiously attached person who initiates sex primarily to feel emotional closeness. The avoidant who enjoys physical pleasure but avoids overnight stays and deeper connection. The securely attached who naturally integrates physical and emotional intimacy. These patterns explain so much about why we behave the way we do in relationships.
Perhaps most fascinating is Mitelman's explanation of why anxious and avoidant people frequently find themselves attracted to each other, creating relationships where one partner constantly seeks closeness while the other pulls away. As she notes, "Attachment styles are not gendered"—contrary to popular memes, these dynamics can appear in any relationship configuration. But there's hope in her message too. These patterns, formed through emotion and repetition in childhood, can be rewired using those same mechanisms. With awareness and consistent effort, anyone can develop more secure attachment and experience deeper, more fulfilling connections.
Whether you're struggling with relationship patterns that leave you feeling unfulfilled or simply curious about the psychology behind intimacy, this episode offers invaluable insights into how we love and connect. Check out Securely Loved on Instagram, YouTube, or at securelyloved.com to learn more about healing attachment wounds and creating healthier relationships.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
podcast.
Frank talk about sex and dating.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello, tamara here, welcome to the show.
Today's guest is Bev Middleman.
She's a certified relationshipand attachment trauma
practitioner and founder ofSecurely Loved, and we'll be
talking about attachment theoryas it relates to dating and
relationships, primarilysexuality.
And thanks for joining me, bev.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So happy to be here.
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, I think this, like I've mentioned attachment
style before, but this will beperfect to talk about the sex
side of things.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So, yeah, I mean we all like talking about sex,
right, and I think most peoplehaven't even thought like how
and why would my attachmentstyle even impact sex?
But it does.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Spoiler alert yeah, yeah.
So where should we get startedon what it is exactly or jump
right into that?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, is it helpful for your audience for me to sort
of talk really briefly aboutthe different attachment styles
and then talk about sex?
Or your audience sort ofalready has a pretty good
understanding of what attachmentstyle actually is?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, we've had a few episodes, but in case they
missed them, because a lot ofpeople pick and choose and you
know not all the episodes, somaybe just a quick, like you
said.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
An overview.
Okay, I'll make this very quick.
So when we talk aboutattachment, what we're really
talking about is the way inwhich we form an emotional bond
with someone else.
What we're really talking aboutis the way in which we form an
emotional bond with someone elseand the way in which we
navigate the world and how muchtrust we have with ourselves and
how much trust we afford otherpeople.
All of this really does go backto our earliest imprints in our
(01:38):
childhood.
So how it is that we were givenand how we received love as a
really young child we're talkingabout we're most suggestible
from like zero to five.
So the interactions that wehave, usually with our primary
caregiver, sets a template, animprint in our mind for how it
(01:59):
is that we are going to interactwith people all throughout our
lifetimes, well into ouradulthood, and again, it does
have a significant impact on sex, which we're going to get to.
So there are two generalcategories, we'll say, of
attachment styles.
We talk at a high level ofsomeone who has a secure
(02:21):
attachment or someone who has aninsecure attachment.
Someone who had a secureattachment grew up in a home
where the caregiver, the parent,was emotionally attuned.
For the most part.
We're not talking aboutperfection, that doesn't exist
but for the most part they wereemotionally attuned to the child
(02:41):
.
The child was given, you know,the freedom to understand their
feelings, to express theirfeelings.
The caregiver responded in ahealthy way to the child when
they were maybe experiencingdifficult feelings, as we all
experience and so the childlearned at that point in time to
not only connect to theirfeelings but to learn to trust
(03:05):
themselves and to learn to trustthat others were going to
respond to them in a healthy way.
And so these individuals, theygrow up.
This is like the utopia, right?
They grow up and they get intoadult type relationships and
they typically do very well.
So, you know, they enjoy beingin a couple and being
(03:26):
independent.
Right, they trust themselves,they trust others, they
generally have goodcommunication, they're generally
emotionally regulated.
These are the people who we seemost often in long-term
relationships and again, youknow, it's not that they don't
have issues and things to workout, but they have a pretty good
, solid base.
(03:47):
Right Now there's a whole othergroup, let's say the other half
of our population.
I'm talking about statistics inNorth America it's about 50 50.
So the other half of ourpopulation unfortunately didn't
grow up with the same level ofemotional attunement in their
you know homes of origin.
And so what we see is is thatthere's various strategies the
(04:11):
kids will adopt when they, whenthey develop this insecure
attachment right, and it reallydepends on the interaction again
that they're having with theircaregiver and the imprinting.
So we have three subsetcategories that form out of that
insecure style.
(04:31):
So all three are insecure butthey present a little
differently.
So one is the anxious,preoccupied.
On this side of the scale, thisis the individual who is
generally always seekingcloseness, who fears abandonment
(04:51):
.
This is a person who had a highdegree of unpredictability in
their childhood.
So maybe a parent, you know,was alcoholic, for example, and
one day they were very happy andloving and the next day they
drank too much and they weremean and the child would not
(05:11):
really know what to expect.
We often see in this cohort ofpeople children who are
parentified, who have to takecare of the parents themselves.
So they take on the role ofbecoming the caregivers.
So they take on the role ofbecoming the caregivers, the
(05:49):
people pleasers.
They're overly congenial andthey tend but afford way too
much trust to others.
Okay, so you can start to thinkhow would that cause a problem
in a romantic relationship?
It starts to become a littlebit obvious right Now.
On the other side of thespectrum we have the individuals
who are dismissive avoidance,and they are individuals who
grew up in a home typicallywhere there was emotional
neglect.
Maybe the parents were verystoic or the parents were
(06:11):
heavily critical of theirchildren, but they got the
message early on that they couldnot rely on their parents for
any sort of emotional supportand so anything that they had to
deal with, they got the messagethat it's me myself and I I
have to deal with it myself.
I have only myself to depend on, and so they trust themselves
(06:34):
entirely but afford very littletrust to other people.
Right yeah, there's like afeigned helplessness there.
Why would I bother to askanyone?
No one's going to help me.
This is imprinted in themreally early on.
So again, how does that impactus?
When we get into romanticrelationships, you can start to
(06:54):
see there's a small cohort ofpeople that have a third, less
discussed attachment style.
We call it the third styleunder the insecure branch, but
it's the fourth style and it'sthe disorganized style or the
fearful avoidance.
Now the fearful avoidance willhave traits of both the anxious
(07:15):
attacher and the avoidantattacher, and they oscillate
between the two depending on whothey're interacting with.
And this style developsprimarily when we're looking at
a child who grew up in a homewhere there was a high degree of
chaos, unpredictability and,oftentimes, abuse.
(07:38):
Any and all kinds of abuseemotional, verbal, physical,
could be sexual but what happensis is that the child actually
takes on an imprinting wherethere's some love in the house,
so they know what it feels liketo be loved and they want more
(07:59):
of that, so they move towards it.
But at the same time, often theperson that they're seeking love
from is also harming them.
And so if we think of, let'ssay, a father who's kind to you,
once in a while you're going towant that kindness.
It feels good, it's validating,it's reassuring, right?
(08:19):
Every little girl wants theattention of their father, right
, every little girl wants theattention of their father, right
.
But you know, the father couldalso maybe not every day, but
maybe every second, third,fourth day can get violent.
And once in a while, you know,the father pushes you or kicks
you or smacks you across theface or calls you names or
(08:40):
invalidates you.
And so there's a point of harmthere too, and so the child
becomes very confused.
Hence disorganized attachments,because they're seeking both
closeness.
They're seeking closeness froman individual who is both
offering them love and hurt, andso what happens is, when they
(09:06):
grow up and go into romanticrelationships, is that they have
this they're called the hot andthe cold partners.
They come close, they getscared, they push back.
They come close, they getscared, they push back.
And this, again, is modelingwhat they knew to be normal or
familiar from their childhood tobe normal or familiar from
(09:28):
their childhood.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah yeah, that makes so much sense.
I'm glad we did that overview.
It was a little more in depthand like more nuanced, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
It's interesting because you mentioned at the top
that you had read the bookAttached, which is a great book.
But Attached does not talkabout the fourth style of
disorganized or fearful avoidant.
It is a smaller cohort, it'sabout, let's say, 10% of the
population, but it is real.
I myself grew up as a fearfulavoidant.
(09:53):
I have done the work at thispoint to move myself much more
towards secure attachment, but Ican tell you that that
emotional conflict and thefeeling so conflicting that you
know I desired and I wanted loveand connection, but it also the
(10:14):
idea of intimacy, feared meLike I was.
It was a great fear to mebecause, as I you know, my
experience was, as I got tooclose to someone, I got hurt.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And you talked about how this can relate to sex.
Do you want to go into thatright now?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Oh, it really does relate to sex, right?
So what's so interesting aboutsex is that sex really does mean
different things for differentpeople, right?
Even for the same person indifferent times of their life or
different moments in time, itmeans different things.
So we always have to approachsex in terms of what does it
(10:57):
mean for people, right?
So there's lots of parametersaround sex and I want people to
understand that attachmentstyles are one of the things
that does actually come upfrequently.
So we're going to talkspecifically about the anxious,
preoccupied person and theavoidant person.
(11:18):
Before we get into this, I cansay people who generally have a
secure attachment will see sexas lots of different things.
They'll see it, as you know,playful.
They'll see it as emotionalconnection.
They'll see it as bonding.
They'll see it, as you know,just physical pleasure, which,
of course, it is all of thesethings, right?
(11:38):
Usually people who are in inthat, who have a secure
attachment, they gravitatetowards longer-term
relationships.
They're less likely like muchmore less likely to be the
individuals who are havingone-night stands every second
Tuesday.
That's not them.
(11:59):
They prefer to have a partnerand they see it again.
You know, physically it feelsgood, but it's the emotional
bonding that they really enjoytoo, because these folks have a
really good sense of intimacy.
And what does intimacy mean?
Right?
Intimacy is all sorts of things, right?
(12:19):
Like sharing that level ofvulnerability with your partner
emotionally, physically,sexually, all those things.
So for people who have grown upwith caregivers that were very
attuned, all of that just fitswithin their imprint, right?
This feels normal and naturalthat emotions would be a part of
(12:41):
sex.
But, as you would expect, noteveryone sees it the same way,
and so when we're talking aboutfolks who are on the insecure
attachment styles especiallyanxious, preoccupied and then
dismissive avoidance they do, infact, engage in sex differently
(13:04):
.
So this has a lot to do withthe needs of the people.
So, when we're talking aboutanxious, preoccupied, their
primary core wound isabandonment.
Again, these folks don't have alot of trust in themselves, but
they have a lot of trust forothers.
They're often the people whoare called needy.
(13:26):
They need a lot of attention,validation, reassurance, which
is true.
These are things that theydidn't get consistently in their
childhood.
So, because they're not good atself-soothing, they rely on
external sources to make themfeel better.
Make them feel better, and oneof the ways that people who are
(13:53):
anxiously attached.
One of the ways in which theycan easily and quickly get
attention, validation from otherpeople, is through sex, right?
So oftentimes sex is weaponized.
It's used not because theindividual themselves actually
want sex, but because they wantto feel closer to the other
person, and so we see thathappening a lot.
(14:17):
They have people who are anxious, you know, anxiously attached.
They have this desire to bereally, really close to their
partner.
So these are the folks who wantto make love to you, they want
to stare into your eyes, theywant a whole night of romance.
For them it's emotionally based, right.
So physically, yes, it feelsgood, but it's emotionally based
(14:40):
.
They are very focused onpleasing their partners.
So, you know, they are muchmore likely to give in to risky
sexual behavior, unwanted sexualbehavior, and the reason is is
(15:00):
it goes back to the core wounds.
I fear abandonment.
So if I say no to your request,you're going to leave me, and
so if I just people please, andI give you everything that you
want, regardless of what it isthat I want, that will keep you
around, right?
So this extends far beyond sex,but we see it, of course, in
(15:24):
sex as well.
So these people have a veryhard time with boundaries when
you're more extreme on the scale.
It's a continuum where you fallon the attachment scale.
But those that are more extremein their anxious attachment,
they really almost don'tunderstand boundaries and so
(15:44):
they don't have boundaries forthemselves.
But they also won't respectyour boundaries.
They, for them, boundaries arealmost like an insult.
Well, you know what do you mean?
You don't want me to come over,you don't want to see me.
What do you mean?
You don't want me to sleep over, right?
So someone who's anxiouslyattached will have, for example,
some of the behaviors we see.
(16:06):
Sometimes it's not everyone,but you know they'll have, for
example, some of the behaviorswe see.
Sometimes it's not everyone,but you know they'll sleep with
you, they'll have sex with you,because what they really wanted
was to spend the night cuddlingin your bed, but they didn't
know how to ask for that.
So they'll have sex with youand hope that you allow them to
stay the night, right, nightRight.
(16:30):
So a lot of the work that I dowith folks is sort of unraveling
some of this and the storiesthat they have in their head and
their core wounds and teachingthem how to put forth not only
understanding their own needs,but how to ask for their own
needs and how to communicatethat and how to identify and lay
down, you know, strongboundaries.
Now, people who are avoidant,the avoidance, are interesting.
I will say this before we goany further the the people who
(16:53):
are, uh, avoidantly attached andwho are anxiously attached,
tend to find each other inromantic partnerships, and I
know there's lots of memes aboutthis on the internet.
Um, attachment styles are notgendered, which you know.
It's not that women are thisway and men are that way.
They're not gendered.
There are plenty of women whoare avoidant or anxious and
plenty of men who are anxious oravoidant, and it's about half
(17:17):
and half in terms of who are,you know, who are actually
securely attached as well.
The internet loves to show thememe of the man who's avoidant
and the woman is chasing after,the anxious woman is chasing
after.
That's one scenario, but itcould easily be flipped as well.
I've worked with plenty of menthat were anxiously attached and
(17:39):
who were, you know, inrelationship or pursuing women
who are avoidant, so it does gothe other way.
So sex for an avoidant meanssomething a little bit different
.
It's usually more about thephysical.
So we're talking.
The anxious person really wantssex with the emotional and the
closeness.
The avoidant person is tryingto avoid that level of intimacy,
(18:06):
vulnerability.
They still enjoy sex, thephysical act of sex right, so
they will engage in sex as,again, a physical act.
The relationship is secondary.
Right, it feels good, it'sgreat, let's do it.
Typically, these are the peoplethat it's done Okay, great,
(18:26):
they leave your place.
They don let's do it.
Typically.
These are the people that it'sdone Okay, great, they leave
your place.
They don't want to sleep over,they don't want to have pillow
talk, you know, because that'sthe.
They don't want to do anythingthat would increase the
possibility of pair bonding withyou.
Yeah, right.
So because they really doexperience discomfort with that
(18:49):
level of closeness, they are thegroup that is at the highest, I
would say risk.
Maybe risk isn't the right word, but we'll say this group is
generally the group that, forthe most part, would be most
(19:10):
interested in casual sexualrelationships.
They're far less interested inhaving one partner and mating
with that partner.
They typically what they do isthey have a partner for a few
weeks, a few months, and thenthey change partners.
When things get to be a littlebit too close they do.
You know, one night standssuits them very well, anything
(19:31):
that doesn't put them in aposition where they feel that
they have to be too vulnerable.
Right, and so it's.
And what's interesting again isthat, because a lot of times
they're dealing with someone whois anxiously, you know,
anxiously attached, theanxiously attached person.
If, for example, you're inconflict the avoidant and the
(19:54):
anxious person are in conflictthe anxious person will likely,
more than likely with a highdegree, initiate sex as a form
to repair the relationship andto feel that closeness, because
for them, being in a conflict isso uncomfortable, you know,
because in their mind, if wedon't resolve this, you'll leave
(20:16):
me.
But the avoidance will actuallyshut down sexually, and the
avoidance, typically, the waythat they deal with this, is
they deactivate, they move awayfrom the relationship and they
look for solace alone, and sothey self-isolate.
And so we see a lot ofinteresting behaviors on the
(20:37):
sexual front too.
Whereas even if an avoidant isin a partnered relationship,
often they still will, I wouldsay, appreciate more or they'll
choose solo sex.
So, even if they're in apartnership, they'll choose
(21:00):
masturbation because it's easierfor them, right, it's like
efficient, it's quick and Idon't have to do pillow talk and
I don't have to make sure thatmy partner's needs are being met
, because really their focus ison okay, this is what I need in
this situation, right?
So, whereas the anxious personis not so good with boundaries,
(21:23):
the avoidant person's very goodat upholding their boundaries,
right.
So the avoidant person will saysay, okay, come on over at 7,
but by 8 30 I need you to begone yeah, I believe it yeah,
and and and, and you know 8, 29,they're walking into the door
and they're like there are yourshoes, right?
(21:46):
yeah, so you're not sleepingover.
They don't.
They don't want to wake up inthe morning and have scrambled
eggs with you.
This is not, this is nottypically who they are Now.
This could change, right Again,they did they.
It wasn't modeled for them thatemotional closeness when they
were younger, right, sovulnerability feels unsafe to
(22:06):
them, right?
So of course we can.
You know, when we talk aboutattachment styles, this is
learned behavior, so we can, ofcourse, unlearn and relearn this
behavior, and that is again thework that we do.
We take a look at some of thesepatterns and what once served
(22:27):
you to survive in childhoodmight no longer be serving you,
you know, as an adult.
So you know we absolutely canundo some of that programming
that makes you feel that gettingtoo emotionally close to
someone is unsafe.
That might have been true ifyou were speaking about, for
(22:48):
example, your parents, butyou're no longer there, so we
have to update.
I call it the software, right?
Our mind is like a software.
It stores programs.
We have to update.
You know the iOS to say, okay,you are safe now and maybe you
know we can try to allow alittle bit of, you know,
(23:09):
vulnerability, intimacy backinto our lives.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Little bit of, you know, vulnerability, intimacy,
back into our lives.
Yeah, as I say, they say ifyou're with a secure person
which of course we alreadytalked about most of them are
together, so it's harder to findthem, but if you are with
someone, you can.
That can speed up your healingand unlearning.
You know to be with someone whois more secure, but outside of
that, is there a way that youfound that works best to start
(23:35):
unlearning all that stuff?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
so, um, the first thing actually is just awareness
, right.
So people don't even realizethat attachment styles are a
thing.
Um, people would like tobelieve that they've got all
sorts of free agency of theirmind, right, right.
And when I say you know most ofyour mind, you're repeating
patterns over and over and over,like most of what you do in the
(23:59):
day is sort of on an autopilot,and that's actually patterns
that are stored in thesubconscious mind, so we're not
aware of them.
Our conscious mind impacts ouremotions, our thoughts and our
behavior at a very smallpercentage, like 3% to 5% Our
conscious mind.
(24:19):
So that's what we're aware of.
So everything else, the bulk ofit, is actually being driven by
these programs that we haveimprinted into our mind and are
stored in our subconscious.
So can we tap into oursubconscious mind and actually
change these programs?
Yes, we can.
(24:40):
It's done in a very specificway, essentially the same way
that the programs were put therein the first place, which was
through emotion and repetition.
So something that you heard oryou felt or you experienced or
you saw repeatedly over time,that was attached to a strong
(25:01):
emotion when you were younglet's say you were three years
old that would create an imprint, and so we use the same
technique to create new imprintsso that you can start to feel
safe in different scenarios.
So it's a very specializedfield of work and it's quite
(25:23):
effective.
We could see these changes, youknow, within a couple of weeks.
It's like anything else, youknow, and the body is very
malleable, right.
So it's like if you decide,okay, I want to get in shape and
I want to put on, you know,five pounds of lean muscle mass,
(25:44):
okay, great, you can do it.
Right.
There's lots of different waysthat you can do it.
Some ways are more effectivethan others, but you have to be
realistic that it's going totake you a couple of months and
you have to be consistent andcommitted, right.
So you can't go every secondThursday and expect that you're
going to see results.
So the mind is the same waywhen I work with people.
(26:05):
I go listen, give me a coupleof weeks, but be committed, do
the work and I promise youyou'll see the changes.
So, yeah, we absolutely can.
(26:28):
And oftentimes anxious peoplewill work with me because they
realize that it can be quitedisruptive to their lives,
because they are highly for themost part, they're usually
highly emotionally dysregulated,which means that when something
does trigger them, they feeltheir emotions in such a big way
and it almost shuts them down,it overtakes them, right?
So they can be at the middle ofwork and they get a text from
(26:49):
their boyfriend and they don'tlike the tone of the text and
all of a sudden they're sobbing,they're crying and the
relationship is over and they'vecreated a whole story.
And so they tend to exaggerateright, Like the sky is falling.
And so people who are anxioustend to realize that their
thought patterns are not servingthem well.
(27:10):
Right, it's disruptive thattheir thought patterns are not
serving them well.
Right, it's disruptive Avoidingpeople.
It's harder for them torecognize that it's disruptive.
They've built up such an armoryof walls and they're like I
have my peace, no one can get in, I'm not granting anyone access
, all is fine.
But they don't realize thatwhat they're actually doing is
(27:31):
not only are they repressingjust the negative emotions,
they're also repressing all oftheir positive emotions.
You cannot just repress someand not others.
And so if you're disconnectedto that sense from your emotions
, you're pushing everything down, you're keeping your walls up,
you're keeping connection to aminimum, you're nowhere near
(27:53):
experiencing life in the waythat it was intended to be
experienced Like.
As humans, we're connectedpeople, right, and sex is just
part of that, and so oftentimeswhat will happen is that we'll
see a partnership betweensomeone who's avoidance and
anxious and the person who'savoidance just really yearns for
(28:15):
a deeper emotional connectionthat the avoidance simply
doesn't know how to give.
They don't know how to give.
It's never been modeled forthem, so that's where we could
really help.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Okay, and speaking of that, how can people work with
you if they want to?
How do they reach you?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So it's not only myself.
I am the founder of SecurelyLoved, but I have a number of
practitioners that we work withboth men and women, because I
work with men and women and somewomen prefer to work with a man
or some men prefer to work withwhatever it is.
You have a selection.
Our website is securelylovedcom.
We're also on Instagram atsecurely underscore loved, and
(28:55):
we're also we're trying tolaunch our YouTube page.
I have all this content that Ithat I put together for people
free content and I'd love forpeople to start consuming it.
That again, on YouTube issecurely loved.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Okay, yeah, it's helpful to have them all be the
same title.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
That works out, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, all right.
Well, are there any like lasttakeaway you want to offer
before we wrap up?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
You know, I always just remind people that again,
attachment styles is, everyonehas one.
It's simply the way in which weform emotional bonds with
others, like how we give andreceive love, and it is learned,
which means, you know, it's nota mental illness, it's not a
disorder of any kind.
It's learned behavior and, likeevery other piece of learned
(29:43):
behavior, we can unlearn andrelearn.
So you absolutely can learnabout your attachment style.
And then if you decide, hey, Iwant deeper connections, or hey,
I can see why this is causing aproblem in my life, um, there
is, there is help, and there aresome really effective ways to
(30:04):
be able to, to, um, channel newpatterns into your subconscious
so that that changes youremotions and ultimately your
behavior.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, this is really great.
Thank you very much for this.
I think people will learn a lotfrom it, especially how it
relates to sex, because, fromwhat I know as well, I would say
it's very, very accurate, asyou know.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It's quite predictive .
Yes, very much.
All right.
All right.
Well, if you left this episode,be sure to tell your friends
about it and rate it as well,and follow the show, of course,
too, and check out securelyloved on all the platforms she
offers.
All right, thanks again, bev.
Thank you, all right.
Thanks everyone.
Frank talk, frank talk.
Sex and dating educate.
Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth
podcast.
Frank talk about sex and dating.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello, tamara here, welcome to the show.
Today's guest is Bev Middleman.
She's a certified relationshipand attachment trauma
practitioner and founder ofSecurely Loved, and we'll be
talking about attachment theoryas it relates to dating and
relationships, primarilysexuality.
And thanks for joining me, bev.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So happy to be here.
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, I think this, like I've mentioned attachment
style before, but this will beperfect to talk about the sex
side of things.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So, yeah, I mean we all like talking about sex,
right, and I think most peoplehaven't even thought like how
and why would my attachmentstyle even impact sex?
But it does.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Spoiler alert yeah, yeah.
So where should we get startedon what it is exactly or jump
right into that?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, is it helpful for your audience for me to sort
of talk really briefly aboutthe different attachment styles
and then talk about sex?
Or your audience sort ofalready has a pretty good
understanding of what attachmentstyle actually is?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, we've had a few episodes, but in case they
missed them, because a lot ofpeople pick and choose and you
know not all the episodes, somaybe just a quick, like you
said.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
An overview.
Okay, I'll make this very quick.
So when we talk aboutattachment, what we're really
talking about is the way inwhich we form an emotional bond
with someone else.
What we're really talking aboutis the way in which we form an
emotional bond with someone elseand the way in which we
navigate the world and how muchtrust we have with ourselves and
how much trust we afford otherpeople.
All of this really does go backto our earliest imprints in our
(01:38):
childhood.
So how it is that we were givenand how we received love as a
really young child we're talkingabout we're most suggestible
from like zero to five.
So the interactions that wehave, usually with our primary
caregiver, sets a template, animprint in our mind for how it
(01:59):
is that we are going to interactwith people all throughout our
lifetimes, well into ouradulthood, and again, it does
have a significant impact on sex, which we're going to get to.
So there are two generalcategories, we'll say, of
attachment styles.
We talk at a high level ofsomeone who has a secure
(02:21):
attachment or someone who has aninsecure attachment.
Someone who had a secureattachment grew up in a home
where the caregiver, the parent,was emotionally attuned.
For the most part.
We're not talking aboutperfection, that doesn't exist
but for the most part they wereemotionally attuned to the child
(02:41):
.
The child was given, you know,the freedom to understand their
feelings, to express theirfeelings.
The caregiver responded in ahealthy way to the child when
they were maybe experiencingdifficult feelings, as we all
experience and so the childlearned at that point in time to
not only connect to theirfeelings but to learn to trust
(03:05):
themselves and to learn to trustthat others were going to
respond to them in a healthy way.
And so these individuals, theygrow up.
This is like the utopia, right?
They grow up and they get intoadult type relationships and
they typically do very well.
So, you know, they enjoy beingin a couple and being
(03:26):
independent.
Right, they trust themselves,they trust others, they
generally have goodcommunication, they're generally
emotionally regulated.
These are the people who we seemost often in long-term
relationships and again, youknow, it's not that they don't
have issues and things to workout, but they have a pretty good
, solid base.
(03:47):
Right Now there's a whole othergroup, let's say the other half
of our population.
I'm talking about statistics inNorth America it's about 50 50.
So the other half of ourpopulation unfortunately didn't
grow up with the same level ofemotional attunement in their
you know homes of origin.
And so what we see is is thatthere's various strategies the
(04:11):
kids will adopt when they, whenthey develop this insecure
attachment right, and it reallydepends on the interaction again
that they're having with theircaregiver and the imprinting.
So we have three subsetcategories that form out of that
insecure style.
(04:31):
So all three are insecure butthey present a little
differently.
So one is the anxious,preoccupied.
On this side of the scale, thisis the individual who is
generally always seekingcloseness, who fears abandonment
(04:51):
.
This is a person who had a highdegree of unpredictability in
their childhood.
So maybe a parent, you know,was alcoholic, for example, and
one day they were very happy andloving and the next day they
drank too much and they weremean and the child would not
(05:11):
really know what to expect.
We often see in this cohort ofpeople children who are
parentified, who have to takecare of the parents themselves.
So they take on the role ofbecoming the caregivers.
So they take on the role ofbecoming the caregivers, the
(05:49):
people pleasers.
They're overly congenial andthey tend but afford way too
much trust to others.
Okay, so you can start to thinkhow would that cause a problem
in a romantic relationship?
It starts to become a littlebit obvious right Now.
On the other side of thespectrum we have the individuals
who are dismissive avoidance,and they are individuals who
grew up in a home typicallywhere there was emotional
neglect.
Maybe the parents were verystoic or the parents were
(06:11):
heavily critical of theirchildren, but they got the
message early on that they couldnot rely on their parents for
any sort of emotional supportand so anything that they had to
deal with, they got the messagethat it's me myself and I I
have to deal with it myself.
I have only myself to depend on, and so they trust themselves
(06:34):
entirely but afford very littletrust to other people.
Right yeah, there's like afeigned helplessness there.
Why would I bother to askanyone?
No one's going to help me.
This is imprinted in themreally early on.
So again, how does that impactus?
When we get into romanticrelationships, you can start to
(06:54):
see there's a small cohort ofpeople that have a third, less
discussed attachment style.
We call it the third styleunder the insecure branch, but
it's the fourth style and it'sthe disorganized style or the
fearful avoidance.
Now the fearful avoidance willhave traits of both the anxious
(07:15):
attacher and the avoidantattacher, and they oscillate
between the two depending on whothey're interacting with.
And this style developsprimarily when we're looking at
a child who grew up in a homewhere there was a high degree of
chaos, unpredictability and,oftentimes, abuse.
(07:38):
Any and all kinds of abuseemotional, verbal, physical,
could be sexual but what happensis is that the child actually
takes on an imprinting wherethere's some love in the house,
so they know what it feels liketo be loved and they want more
(07:59):
of that, so they move towards it.
But at the same time, often theperson that they're seeking love
from is also harming them.
And so if we think of, let'ssay, a father who's kind to you,
once in a while you're going towant that kindness.
It feels good, it's validating,it's reassuring, right?
(08:19):
Every little girl wants theattention of their father, right
, every little girl wants theattention of their father, right
.
But you know, the father couldalso maybe not every day, but
maybe every second, third,fourth day can get violent.
And once in a while, you know,the father pushes you or kicks
you or smacks you across theface or calls you names or
(08:40):
invalidates you.
And so there's a point of harmthere too, and so the child
becomes very confused.
Hence disorganized attachments,because they're seeking both
closeness.
They're seeking closeness froman individual who is both
offering them love and hurt, andso what happens is, when they
(09:06):
grow up and go into romanticrelationships, is that they have
this they're called the hot andthe cold partners.
They come close, they getscared, they push back.
They come close, they getscared, they push back.
And this, again, is modelingwhat they knew to be normal or
familiar from their childhood tobe normal or familiar from
(09:28):
their childhood.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah yeah, that makes so much sense.
I'm glad we did that overview.
It was a little more in depthand like more nuanced, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
It's interesting because you mentioned at the top
that you had read the bookAttached, which is a great book.
But Attached does not talkabout the fourth style of
disorganized or fearful avoidant.
It is a smaller cohort, it'sabout, let's say, 10% of the
population, but it is real.
I myself grew up as a fearfulavoidant.
(09:53):
I have done the work at thispoint to move myself much more
towards secure attachment, but Ican tell you that that
emotional conflict and thefeeling so conflicting that you
know I desired and I wanted loveand connection, but it also the
(10:14):
idea of intimacy, feared meLike I was.
It was a great fear to mebecause, as I you know, my
experience was, as I got tooclose to someone, I got hurt.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
And you talked about how this can relate to sex.
Do you want to go into thatright now?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Oh, it really does relate to sex, right?
So what's so interesting aboutsex is that sex really does mean
different things for differentpeople, right?
Even for the same person indifferent times of their life or
different moments in time, itmeans different things.
So we always have to approachsex in terms of what does it
(10:57):
mean for people, right?
So there's lots of parametersaround sex and I want people to
understand that attachmentstyles are one of the things
that does actually come upfrequently.
So we're going to talkspecifically about the anxious,
preoccupied person and theavoidant person.
(11:18):
Before we get into this, I cansay people who generally have a
secure attachment will see sexas lots of different things.
They'll see it, as you know,playful.
They'll see it as emotionalconnection.
They'll see it as bonding.
They'll see it, as you know,just physical pleasure, which,
of course, it is all of thesethings, right?
(11:38):
Usually people who are in inthat, who have a secure
attachment, they gravitatetowards longer-term
relationships.
They're less likely like muchmore less likely to be the
individuals who are havingone-night stands every second
Tuesday.
That's not them.
(11:59):
They prefer to have a partnerand they see it again.
You know, physically it feelsgood, but it's the emotional
bonding that they really enjoytoo, because these folks have a
really good sense of intimacy.
And what does intimacy mean?
Right?
Intimacy is all sorts of things, right?
(12:19):
Like sharing that level ofvulnerability with your partner
emotionally, physically,sexually, all those things.
So for people who have grown upwith caregivers that were very
attuned, all of that just fitswithin their imprint, right?
This feels normal and naturalthat emotions would be a part of
(12:41):
sex.
But, as you would expect, noteveryone sees it the same way,
and so when we're talking aboutfolks who are on the insecure
attachment styles especiallyanxious, preoccupied and then
dismissive avoidance they do, infact, engage in sex differently
(13:04):
.
So this has a lot to do withthe needs of the people.
So, when we're talking aboutanxious, preoccupied, their
primary core wound isabandonment.
Again, these folks don't have alot of trust in themselves, but
they have a lot of trust forothers.
They're often the people whoare called needy.
(13:26):
They need a lot of attention,validation, reassurance, which
is true.
These are things that theydidn't get consistently in their
childhood.
So, because they're not good atself-soothing, they rely on
external sources to make themfeel better.
Make them feel better, and oneof the ways that people who are
(13:53):
anxiously attached.
One of the ways in which theycan easily and quickly get
attention, validation from otherpeople, is through sex, right?
So oftentimes sex is weaponized.
It's used not because theindividual themselves actually
want sex, but because they wantto feel closer to the other
person, and so we see thathappening a lot.
(14:17):
They have people who are anxious, you know, anxiously attached.
They have this desire to bereally, really close to their
partner.
So these are the folks who wantto make love to you, they want
to stare into your eyes, theywant a whole night of romance.
For them it's emotionally based, right.
So physically, yes, it feelsgood, but it's emotionally based
(14:40):
.
They are very focused onpleasing their partners.
So, you know, they are muchmore likely to give in to risky
sexual behavior, unwanted sexualbehavior, and the reason is is
(15:00):
it goes back to the core wounds.
I fear abandonment.
So if I say no to your request,you're going to leave me, and
so if I just people please, andI give you everything that you
want, regardless of what it isthat I want, that will keep you
around, right?
So this extends far beyond sex,but we see it, of course, in
(15:24):
sex as well.
So these people have a veryhard time with boundaries when
you're more extreme on the scale.
It's a continuum where you fallon the attachment scale.
But those that are more extremein their anxious attachment,
they really almost don'tunderstand boundaries and so
(15:44):
they don't have boundaries forthemselves.
But they also won't respectyour boundaries.
They, for them, boundaries arealmost like an insult.
Well, you know what do you mean?
You don't want me to come over,you don't want to see me.
What do you mean?
You don't want me to sleep over, right?
So someone who's anxiouslyattached will have, for example,
some of the behaviors we see.
(16:06):
Sometimes it's not everyone,but you know they'll have, for
example, some of the behaviorswe see.
Sometimes it's not everyone,but you know they'll sleep with
you, they'll have sex with you,because what they really wanted
was to spend the night cuddlingin your bed, but they didn't
know how to ask for that.
So they'll have sex with youand hope that you allow them to
stay the night, right, nightRight.
(16:30):
So a lot of the work that I dowith folks is sort of unraveling
some of this and the storiesthat they have in their head and
their core wounds and teachingthem how to put forth not only
understanding their own needs,but how to ask for their own
needs and how to communicatethat and how to identify and lay
down, you know, strongboundaries.
Now, people who are avoidant,the avoidance, are interesting.
I will say this before we goany further the the people who
(16:53):
are, uh, avoidantly attached andwho are anxiously attached,
tend to find each other inromantic partnerships, and I
know there's lots of memes aboutthis on the internet.
Um, attachment styles are notgendered, which you know.
It's not that women are thisway and men are that way.
They're not gendered.
There are plenty of women whoare avoidant or anxious and
plenty of men who are anxious oravoidant, and it's about half
(17:17):
and half in terms of who are,you know, who are actually
securely attached as well.
The internet loves to show thememe of the man who's avoidant
and the woman is chasing after,the anxious woman is chasing
after.
That's one scenario, but itcould easily be flipped as well.
I've worked with plenty of menthat were anxiously attached and
(17:39):
who were, you know, inrelationship or pursuing women
who are avoidant, so it does gothe other way.
So sex for an avoidant meanssomething a little bit different
.
It's usually more about thephysical.
So we're talking.
The anxious person really wantssex with the emotional and the
closeness.
The avoidant person is tryingto avoid that level of intimacy,
(18:06):
vulnerability.
They still enjoy sex, thephysical act of sex right, so
they will engage in sex as,again, a physical act.
The relationship is secondary.
Right, it feels good, it'sgreat, let's do it.
Typically, these are the peoplethat it's done Okay, great,
(18:26):
they leave your place.
They don let's do it.
Typically.
These are the people that it'sdone Okay, great, they leave
your place.
They don't want to sleep over,they don't want to have pillow
talk, you know, because that'sthe.
They don't want to do anythingthat would increase the
possibility of pair bonding withyou.
Yeah, right.
So because they really doexperience discomfort with that
(18:49):
level of closeness, they are thegroup that is at the highest, I
would say risk.
Maybe risk isn't the right word, but we'll say this group is
generally the group that, forthe most part, would be most
(19:10):
interested in casual sexualrelationships.
They're far less interested inhaving one partner and mating
with that partner.
They typically what they do isthey have a partner for a few
weeks, a few months, and thenthey change partners.
When things get to be a littlebit too close they do.
You know, one night standssuits them very well, anything
(19:31):
that doesn't put them in aposition where they feel that
they have to be too vulnerable.
Right, and so it's.
And what's interesting again isthat, because a lot of times
they're dealing with someone whois anxiously, you know,
anxiously attached, theanxiously attached person.
If, for example, you're inconflict the avoidant and the
(19:54):
anxious person are in conflictthe anxious person will likely,
more than likely with a highdegree, initiate sex as a form
to repair the relationship andto feel that closeness, because
for them, being in a conflict isso uncomfortable, you know,
because in their mind, if wedon't resolve this, you'll leave
(20:16):
me.
But the avoidance will actuallyshut down sexually, and the
avoidance, typically, the waythat they deal with this, is
they deactivate, they move awayfrom the relationship and they
look for solace alone, and sothey self-isolate.
And so we see a lot ofinteresting behaviors on the
(20:37):
sexual front too.
Whereas even if an avoidant isin a partnered relationship,
often they still will, I wouldsay, appreciate more or they'll
choose solo sex.
So, even if they're in apartnership, they'll choose
(21:00):
masturbation because it's easierfor them, right, it's like
efficient, it's quick and Idon't have to do pillow talk and
I don't have to make sure thatmy partner's needs are being met
, because really their focus ison okay, this is what I need in
this situation, right?
So, whereas the anxious personis not so good with boundaries,
(21:23):
the avoidant person's very goodat upholding their boundaries,
right.
So the avoidant person will saysay, okay, come on over at 7,
but by 8 30 I need you to begone yeah, I believe it yeah,
and and and, and you know 8, 29,they're walking into the door
and they're like there are yourshoes, right?
(21:46):
yeah, so you're not sleepingover.
They don't.
They don't want to wake up inthe morning and have scrambled
eggs with you.
This is not, this is nottypically who they are Now.
This could change, right Again,they did they.
It wasn't modeled for them thatemotional closeness when they
were younger, right, sovulnerability feels unsafe to
(22:06):
them, right?
So of course we can.
You know, when we talk aboutattachment styles, this is
learned behavior, so we can, ofcourse, unlearn and relearn this
behavior, and that is again thework that we do.
We take a look at some of thesepatterns and what once served
(22:27):
you to survive in childhoodmight no longer be serving you,
you know, as an adult.
So you know we absolutely canundo some of that programming
that makes you feel that gettingtoo emotionally close to
someone is unsafe.
That might have been true ifyou were speaking about, for
(22:48):
example, your parents, butyou're no longer there, so we
have to update.
I call it the software, right?
Our mind is like a software.
It stores programs.
We have to update.
You know the iOS to say, okay,you are safe now and maybe you
know we can try to allow alittle bit of, you know,
(23:09):
vulnerability, intimacy backinto our lives.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Little bit of, you know, vulnerability, intimacy,
back into our lives.
Yeah, as I say, they say ifyou're with a secure person
which of course we alreadytalked about most of them are
together, so it's harder to findthem, but if you are with
someone, you can.
That can speed up your healingand unlearning.
You know to be with someone whois more secure, but outside of
that, is there a way that youfound that works best to start
(23:35):
unlearning all that stuff?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
so, um, the first thing actually is just awareness
, right.
So people don't even realizethat attachment styles are a
thing.
Um, people would like tobelieve that they've got all
sorts of free agency of theirmind, right, right.
And when I say you know most ofyour mind, you're repeating
patterns over and over and over,like most of what you do in the
(23:59):
day is sort of on an autopilot,and that's actually patterns
that are stored in thesubconscious mind, so we're not
aware of them.
Our conscious mind impacts ouremotions, our thoughts and our
behavior at a very smallpercentage, like 3% to 5% Our
conscious mind.
(24:19):
So that's what we're aware of.
So everything else, the bulk ofit, is actually being driven by
these programs that we haveimprinted into our mind and are
stored in our subconscious.
So can we tap into oursubconscious mind and actually
change these programs?
Yes, we can.
(24:40):
It's done in a very specificway, essentially the same way
that the programs were put therein the first place, which was
through emotion and repetition.
So something that you heard oryou felt or you experienced or
you saw repeatedly over time,that was attached to a strong
(25:01):
emotion when you were younglet's say you were three years
old that would create an imprint, and so we use the same
technique to create new imprintsso that you can start to feel
safe in different scenarios.
So it's a very specializedfield of work and it's quite
(25:23):
effective.
We could see these changes, youknow, within a couple of weeks.
It's like anything else, youknow, and the body is very
malleable, right.
So it's like if you decide,okay, I want to get in shape and
I want to put on, you know,five pounds of lean muscle mass,
(25:44):
okay, great, you can do it.
Right.
There's lots of different waysthat you can do it.
Some ways are more effectivethan others, but you have to be
realistic that it's going totake you a couple of months and
you have to be consistent andcommitted, right.
So you can't go every secondThursday and expect that you're
going to see results.
So the mind is the same waywhen I work with people.
(26:05):
I go listen, give me a coupleof weeks, but be committed, do
the work and I promise youyou'll see the changes.
So, yeah, we absolutely can.
(26:28):
And oftentimes anxious peoplewill work with me because they
realize that it can be quitedisruptive to their lives,
because they are highly for themost part, they're usually
highly emotionally dysregulated,which means that when something
does trigger them, they feeltheir emotions in such a big way
and it almost shuts them down,it overtakes them, right?
So they can be at the middle ofwork and they get a text from
(26:49):
their boyfriend and they don'tlike the tone of the text and
all of a sudden they're sobbing,they're crying and the
relationship is over and they'vecreated a whole story.
And so they tend to exaggerateright, Like the sky is falling.
And so people who are anxioustend to realize that their
thought patterns are not servingthem well.
(27:10):
Right, it's disruptive thattheir thought patterns are not
serving them well.
Right, it's disruptive Avoidingpeople.
It's harder for them torecognize that it's disruptive.
They've built up such an armoryof walls and they're like I
have my peace, no one can get in, I'm not granting anyone access
, all is fine.
But they don't realize thatwhat they're actually doing is
(27:31):
not only are they repressingjust the negative emotions,
they're also repressing all oftheir positive emotions.
You cannot just repress someand not others.
And so if you're disconnectedto that sense from your emotions
, you're pushing everything down, you're keeping your walls up,
you're keeping connection to aminimum, you're nowhere near
(27:53):
experiencing life in the waythat it was intended to be
experienced Like.
As humans, we're connectedpeople, right, and sex is just
part of that, and so oftentimeswhat will happen is that we'll
see a partnership betweensomeone who's avoidance and
anxious and the person who'savoidance just really yearns for
(28:15):
a deeper emotional connectionthat the avoidance simply
doesn't know how to give.
They don't know how to give.
It's never been modeled forthem, so that's where we could
really help.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Okay, and speaking of that, how can people work with
you if they want to?
How do they reach you?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So it's not only myself.
I am the founder of SecurelyLoved, but I have a number of
practitioners that we work withboth men and women, because I
work with men and women and somewomen prefer to work with a man
or some men prefer to work withwhatever it is.
You have a selection.
Our website is securelylovedcom.
We're also on Instagram atsecurely underscore loved, and
(28:55):
we're also we're trying tolaunch our YouTube page.
I have all this content that Ithat I put together for people
free content and I'd love forpeople to start consuming it.
That again, on YouTube issecurely loved.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Okay, yeah, it's helpful to have them all be the
same title.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
That works out, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, all right.
Well, are there any like lasttakeaway you want to offer
before we wrap up?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
You know, I always just remind people that again,
attachment styles is, everyonehas one.
It's simply the way in which weform emotional bonds with
others, like how we give andreceive love, and it is learned,
which means, you know, it's nota mental illness, it's not a
disorder of any kind.
It's learned behavior and, likeevery other piece of learned
(29:43):
behavior, we can unlearn andrelearn.
So you absolutely can learnabout your attachment style.
And then if you decide, hey, Iwant deeper connections, or hey,
I can see why this is causing aproblem in my life, um, there
is, there is help, and there aresome really effective ways to
(30:04):
be able to, to, um, channel newpatterns into your subconscious
so that that changes youremotions and ultimately your
behavior.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, this is really great.
Thank you very much for this.
I think people will learn a lotfrom it, especially how it
relates to sex, because, fromwhat I know as well, I would say
it's very, very accurate, asyou know.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It's quite predictive .
Yes, very much.
All right.
All right.
Well, if you left this episode,be sure to tell your friends
about it and rate it as well,and follow the show, of course,
too, and check out securelyloved on all the platforms she
offers.
All right, thanks again, bev.
Thank you, all right.
Thanks everyone.
Frank talk, frank talk.
Sex and dating educate.
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