431: 'The Iron Claw' Deep Dive

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
What's up everyone out there, Internet Land, and welcome to
episode four thirty one of the Straight Shooters available wherever
podcasts are found. My name is Vaughan Johnson, and I'm
joined as always by my main man, Pots and Pants,
Nick Pecona, Fox Pay each Other, Gambler and Filly Influencer,
and we have yet another fantastic show ahead of us
here on episode four thirty one. It is a deep dive.

(00:36):
We are diving deep into a movie. I told y'all
we was gonna do a movie at some point, and
here we are. We are diving deep into The Iron Claw,
of course, the biopic made by A twenty four about
the von Eric family. And to to do this, we
brought it a special guest, a very special guest, because
we've been talking about movies on the Roundtable for years

(00:57):
and now we'll get to actually talk about a movie
with our boy, with our round table mate, John Janson,
also a Fox page of the Gambler. John, How are
you on this beautiful Monday or Tuesday evening?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
My good brother, Yeah, I'm doing good. This is gonna
be a mix of like two worlds that I absolutely love.
It's wrestling and movies and like an actually good wrestling movie.
So yeah, really really excited to dive into this.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
One awesome, awesome good to hear that that you're excited
to dive into this here movie. But before we dive
into anything else, I gotta do more weekly check in
or I guess a couple multi weekly check in. This
is the second time I checked in with you this week. Nick,
How are you on this lovely Tuesday evening?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Good brother loving shambles? Oh no, oh wow, Bryce Hart
Broselbo hurts man. Oh no, I'm pissed, but I'll try
to get through this.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'll try, dude, Carrie was missing a leg in wrestling.
It'll be fine, He'll be all right.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I wanted to like compare myself to the vad Eric family,
but I didn't think I.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Don't think that be appropriate, So I don't think many
can compare themselves.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
So yeah, I'm going to It happened literally like les
less than an hour ago, so I've been stealing. Thankfully,
so far, the news that has come back has been good.
The X rays are negative on Bryce Harper's elbow, but
if only Spencer Stritter can find the plate, we wouldn't
be in this mess. So if I'm a little uh

(02:25):
preoccupied because I'm worried about Bryce Harper, I apologize, Well.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
The eyes of every Phillies fan, that the minds of
every Phillies fan right now is on Bryce Harper's elbow.
I'm sure. But initial reports are he'll be, he'll be.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
I That's actually how they announced it exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's what Dave don Broski told the media. He'll be.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
It was in the press release.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
He b I cool, he tough, Right, that's what they
said in the press release. But speaking of tough, let's
get through the tough movie that is the subject of
our deep dive here in episode four thirty one. It
is The Iron Claw, which, again we've talked about movies

(03:12):
on this podcast, I guess the roundtable with John and
now we're gonna dive deep into this movie here, The
Iron Claw. This is probably the fourth movie you've ever seen, Nick,
because you don't watch a lot.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Of movies, at least at least, don't tell me that, Nick,
don't tell me that. I'll give you a homework after
this podcast.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
I used to watch a lot of movies when I
was growing up, but that I just kind of stopped.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
So fourth one since like two thousand pretty much for Nick.
One of them is Ready to Rumble, because.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Another one is definitely Yes, is definitely my first movie ever.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I think, thank god you got me on this podcast
to balance it out. Nick doesn't watch any movies. I
watch every movie, So we had to balance here.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
We had to elevate the quality of movies because we've
done Ready to Rumble, We've done uh Sandon.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
With Muscles, Beyond the mat, we did beyond.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
The Well, beyond the Man's Good. You know, we in
the holds Bar.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Have you guys done the Wrestler?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Not yet, but we will get to that eventually.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
I still think that is the better, the best wrestling
movie I've ever heard of it.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'd have to see it again, but I haven't seen
it in a long time, but I'm sure still.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, I came out two thousand and eight. Gosh, I forgot.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah. It was like the I remember the Chris Jerco
like thing and the rumors about him Mickey Rourke being
at WrestleMania stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Like, I mean, that movie put Mickey Rourke back on
the map. Bro.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, yeah, it did. Really.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yep, say I don't like things you do.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
You didn't know that thing.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
You know that thing, and you also know The Iron Claw,
which was released in theaters on December twenty second, twenty
twenty three. It was written and directed by Sean Dirkin,
making his feature length the directorial debut. Before this, he
was directed some short so that I'm not really familiar with.
I'm not sure if you guys are. If you are John,

(05:04):
you're the movie guy. You don't know if you're familiar
with some of his prior work, and he's produced some
movies that mostly I'm not familiar with as well. But
one The Rental, which came out in twenty twenty good
horror movie. I would recommend.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
I was just gonna say, is that a horror movie?

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yes, it's like a it's sort of like an Airbnb
type horror movie, but like actually, but actually it's a
quality movie. It's a quality movie. I would actually highly
recommend The Rental. I don't know, John, if you're familiar with.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
That one at all, No, I'm actually not check it out.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Check it out. I recommend. But this movie, The Iron Claw,
was produced by A twenty four, which, if you're in
the movies, you know about A twenty four usually see
that logo pop up on the screen and it means
it's going to be a banger, all right. They've made
quite a name for themselves because of that, movies like
Moonlight Best Picture winner at the Academy Awards, Everything Everywhere,

(05:58):
All at Once, also Best Pick Your Winner at the
Academy Awards. I've seen everything everywhere all at once. It
deserved the wind. I've not seen it right though.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Oh, Moonlight's fantastic, I've heard. Like Honestly, Moonlight was one
of the films that that got me into because I've
always liked movies, but I never like did a deep dive,
and it was like after I watched that one, that
was was like, oh, there's there's some like things I'm
missing here, and that was that was a film that
like blew me away. So that, yeah, that's That's one

(06:29):
of the ones that like kind of started me on
this whole movie thing. It's It's absolutely worth it. Honestly,
one of the greatest Oscar moments ever when they said
it was going to be La La Land and then
it ended up being Moonlight. But Moonlight was the right decision.
I love the La La Land, but Moonlight maybe one
of the more like influential, just like American classics that
that still like blows me away. Every time I watch.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
It, I will make a point to watch it. I
still have not watched it all these years later, but
I do remember that Oscar moment, classic Oscar moment. I
was working that night. That was Sunday night, obviously guess
when the Oscars. I was working at Philly dot Com
back then and seeing that live and I was like,
what waited that?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, the only the only other crazy moment it wasn't
just because there was like a mix up. The only
other one that has ever come close is like Parasite
was such a oh my god, a Korean film, a
foreign film just won Best Picture. Yeah, also that was
a big but like move. Yeah, oh, Parasite probably still
my favorite movie of like the this decade, or at
least like it was close to this decade, but at

(07:29):
least like of the last five six years. That still
might be my favorite movie. Yeah, but Moonlight is one
of those as well, Like that was one of the
best of the decade when it came out. But I
guess to describe a twenty four for you, it has
been kind of dubbed as like the indie blockbuster production company.
They started art House too. Art House definitely a lot

(07:50):
of art House stuff because I like a lot of
the Arthouse stuff that comes out of A twenty four,
past Lives being one of them, so they've done like
a lot of that. But I think everything, ever, all at once,
really captures what they're looking for. It is a blockbuster,
or at least an independent blockbuster that appeals enough to
the masses that they can make like thirty forty to

(08:10):
fifty million. This isn't gonna be like Top Gun, Maverick
or Oppenheimer or it's gonna make a billion, but it's
gonna be a slightly budget movie that is going to
appeal to the masses but still have this quality of
storytelling and like some really good scripts have come out
of A twenty four. So the Iron Clall really fit
the bill there, and they got i mean all star
casts and everything. But yeah, Iron Clall has just been

(08:31):
part of like what's been a very strong showcase for
A twenty four. Yes quite a while.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Now, Yes, I personally also loved A twenty fourth horror movies.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
They've gotten really big, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Really big. Among my favorites are Hereditary, It's probably still
my favorite amongst the A twenty four movies. That's a man.
The first time I watched that was an experience, honestly.
Hereditary Midsummer was also a classic, in my opinion. Bodies, Bodies, Bodies.
I think that was a really good entry from them.
The Witch, which is one of their older ones, but

(09:05):
it's still quality. Obviously, X Pearl, which is I think.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Though Maxim horrible, horrible man.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
I just watched that like a day or two ago
for the first time. After watching I've seen X and
I've seen Pearl. Like man, big fans of those two
movies especially, I think Pearl might be the best movie
of the three. Yeah, I love X, but the Pearl
me and God's performance and that movie is incredible. But
I was like, man, Maxine in the eighties got Nights Talker,
Satanic Panic, Let's do it and yeah, what downgrade?

Speaker 2 (09:35):
It wanted so hard to be an eighties movie and
just couldn't kill it at all. It just didn't have
Also another one, And because they're about to come out
with another film soon. The directors they're like two Australian
YouTubers that made film a couple of years ago called
talk to Me maybe, and I watched that, Yeah, I've
watched it again very recently. That I just I can't

(09:56):
believe how much storytelling they were able to put into
that movie. And talk to Me Too is apparently gonna
come out at some point like that's the.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
One with the that's the one with the hand that
you have to shake the hand.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yes, yeah, hand, and then you become possessed by the
hand when you you basically let them enter in. But
it's like it's a really good metaphor for like peer
pressure and drugs in high school and like things like that,
just like at the experience of high school and doing
something that maybe you shouldn't be. Uh, that goes too far.
But it's just like an excellent movie. But yeah, their
horror stuff is is maybe some of the best. And

(10:27):
I think Talk to Me might be my favorite horror
movie from a twenty four actually, like I've really grown
to love that.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
I forgot talk to Me it was an a twenty
four movie, but uh, I'm still a ride with Hereditary.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think that was nice.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
I forget the actress's name in that movie, that the
main the lead actress, but she's incredible, but she grave
an incredible performance in that movie. Man, I wish I
could remember her name. But either way, back to the actress, yes,
I forget it. Back to the Iron Claw. They also
produced a twenty four They produced a wrestling movie. How
about that? Of all the you know, high, you know

(11:00):
quality entertainment that they've produced, they also did the Von
Eric family bio pick In this movie stars Zach Efron,
who we all know is Zach Efron, is he is
Kevin von Eric of course, again, like I said, everybody
knows zach Efrin has been in a bunch of movies
and going back to his high school musical days. But
I thought Zach Effron did very well as Kerry von Eric.

(11:24):
I think he gave this role his eyes. I think
everybody did in this movie overall. Alongside zac Efron is
Jeremy Allen White as Carrie von Eric. White, who has
won multiple Golden Globes for his role in FX is
The Bear, which I have seen maybe two or three
episodes of, and such an intense show that it's hard

(11:44):
to watch in spurts, like it's so high anxiety all
the time. I'm not sure if you guys have seen
The Bear.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
But I've seen pieces, but like, yeah, it's it's no
denying that The Bear has been quite a phenomenon, and
Jeremy Allen White has been really him and I, oh,
I always forget her name it Bear.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
I always forget how to say her name. But she's
so dang good too. But those two have really like
taken off because of that show.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yes, so funny because that's the first thing I saw
Jeremy Allen White and so and I didn't even know,
like i'd seen The Iron Claw, you know credits, you know,
way back when it was released. This is the first
time I watched it, and I didn't even realize Jeremy
Allen White was in the film.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
So when I saw him, I was like, oh, that's
the check. But yeah, it's just just a comment on
the cast, like it is. This is an incredible cast
that they got zac Efron and really one of the
more perfectly casted roles he's ever been in Jeremy Allen
White when he's white hot. Harris Dickinson has been getting

(12:48):
some huge roles. Baby Girl was another one recently that
he has done. But Harris Dickinson is moving up. He's
even directing films now, so he was a big name,
David von Eric yep and and mar Tyerney who plays
the mom, Doris van Eric. She's been around for a while,
a great Colt mc mcallenie also, I think it was
just In he's been in Top Guns and he played

(13:10):
the dad for It's Van Eric. But this was like
the entire cast and crew like it was an upcoming writer,
director Sean Durkin, who they've you know, this is the
kind of guy that a twenty four is going to
take a script from and want to very art house guy,
a very good writer, strong writer that they're going to
throw some money into and throw some money on a

(13:30):
script like that. So everything came together like this. This
was the right cast at the right time, with the
right director at the right time. So they While it
didn't one hundred percent with me, and I'm sure we'll
get with that, it's still like this had a lot
going for it before it even hit theaters.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
I would agree with that. Very experienced cast crew the
whole nine. Back to Jeremy Allen White. He also starred
in The Rental produced by Sean Kin, so there's a
connection there. I did not Yeah, you mentioned Hult McCallany,
that's how you say it.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
I think show Fritz van Eric he is.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
He was in Fight Club back in the day, but
most recently I watched him in mind Hunter, the Netflix
crime series where they it's about like the initial like profilers,
like serial killer profilers, and the FBI. There's only two
seasons and they're not doing any more seasons. As highly
disappointing because I thought it was a fantastic show and

(14:24):
he's one of the main detectives in the show and
he does a I think a great job in that show.
So I was happy to see him as Fritz von Eric.
I thought that was probably the best casting in the
movie in my opinion, as far as look and then
I was, you know, say later, but also performance in
my eyes. But I think Holt mccallumy was great. You
mentioned mare Tyranny. She was in Er and of course

(14:46):
my one of my favorite Jim Carrey movies. Liar liars,
So Nick, you've seen that one. I still don't know
why she took him back in the end. He definitely
cheated on change.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
He changed.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, Okay. We also have to mention Lily James.
She plays Pam Or Pam Atkinson, who's that's the Atkinson
is the actual name of the vine Eric family, but
that is Kevin Van Eric's wife. You might know Lily
Jane from Baby Driver. I don't know if you ever
seen that Scott Jamie Fox, and she is like babies,

(15:16):
that's the main character's name that she's like his girlfriend,
So there is that. According to Indie Wire, this movie
was made on a budget of twenty million dollars, so
not a super high budget, but you know, like John said,
enough money that you can get this film made. And
there's still a lot of quality in this movie. You
see a lot of quality on the screen. They's probably
put all the money into the actual production of the movie,

(15:37):
Like it looks good and you can tell they took
their time with making this movie. And it made, according
to box office Mojo, forty five million dollars worldwide. So
I guess that's a prophet, right, I don't know that's
a success.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Oh yeah, that's what A twenty four is looking for.
They're looking for anything from like ten to twenty million,
and they're hopefully getting back again these any blockbuster films.
They're they're trying to catch something, you know, like lightning
in a bottle and maybe one of these will hit really,
really big, but they're just looking like forty fifty million
from it, and yeah, they make a profit off of it.
And this one did, absolutely did.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
And not only did it make money, it also garnered
positive reviews, mostly positive reviews. It has an eighty nine
percent of Rotten Tomatoes. And look, again, this is a
twenty four. You know they're loan to make at least
a good movie. It may not be it. There's levels
to it. Obviously, there's some movies that are better than others,
but you're at least you're gonna get a quality film
out of a twenty four. As far as the structure

(16:36):
of the movie is really told through the eyes of
Kevin van Eric again played by zac Efron zach Efron,
as he lives through the many trials and tribulations of
the vin Eric family. And if you're a wrestling fan,
you kind of know what to expect, and you know
that there's gonna be one tragedy actor another and it's
gonna be tough. But if you're a newcomer of the
to the to this whole story and to this whole universe, yeah,

(16:58):
this movie is probably a downer to you as well.
Like I think as a wrestling fan you might have
some nostalgia at certain points, but if you're a non fan,
you're like, man, this movie it is tough. Poor Doris
von Eric, Like the stuff they did with her, I
thought was really poignant and showing how she handled the
grief many times over. But one quick thought that I

(17:19):
would make them go off to you guys, is that
I think that they actually the movie. Look, it has
weak points, but I think they actually cared about the
almost the source material. This is these people's lives, you know.
They tried to pay respect to not only the family
and their dynamic, but also the business of wrestling too,

(17:39):
where like movies like Ready to Rumble, they would like say, oh,
we're just we're just clowns in the circus. That's literally
what Jimmy the King said, right like, we're just clowns
and that's it. But this it wasn't that, especially not
the first Von Eric. It was real whin the world
title son. But there's a very very real industry behind
the circus like atmosphere that you see on screen and

(18:00):
as discussed at various points in this movie, very real
politics and with real consequences one way or another. So
at the very least I thought we got that out
of this movie. But Nick, I'll go to you real
quick because I'm interested in your thoughts as a not
a big movie watcher. What were your kind of takeaways
from this movie?

Speaker 3 (18:21):
I think John so I've read John's review of this
a letterboxed, and he I think his first sentence really
hammers at home. For me, is like a true story
that was actually too tragic to include all of it
because they didn't even include Chris von Eric, who also
died by suicide, one of the von Eric brothers. And

(18:45):
for me, I'm going into this movie like I know
the story about the von Eric family, but I was
also going into it thinking, you know it didn't really
read reviews of it or even previews of the movie
when it was released, because I knew we were eventually
going to watch this movie for this podcast, and I
was like, until we do that, I'm not going to

(19:06):
watch it, you know, I'm just going to watch it
until for when we talk about it. And I just
in the beginning, I thought it was like, okay, like
we might get into the nitty gritty of like maybe
the wrestling business didn't really do that. It was more
of an obvious story of the von Eric family. But
I also don't think uh, I think like the first
hour of the movie was just like I was kind

(19:29):
of almost waiting for something to hook me because I
and I'm not talking about, you know, the suicides. I'm
talking about maybe character development or something like that, or
maybe something that is from the like a character development
in terms of the wrestling business, and I just never
got that. So the first hour of the movie was

(19:51):
really me just kind of being for lack of a
better term, of like kind of bored with the story
they were telling, which to me, it was like no
story at all. It was just like, here's a normal
family that was anything but normal. I think in that
time period they just weren't. I think they were just
kind of building to, uh, look how normal this family
is that's about to turn tragic, and that's kind of

(20:13):
what the second part of the the second hour of
the movie was a bit so Yeah, going into it,
I was kind of like, Okay, like I'm here for
a lot of the wrestling backstory, and I don't feel
like I got what I thought I would get, not
saying it was bad. I was just like, I guess
expecting more.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
You went into a hopeing for like behind the scenes.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
Wanted story of like w CCW basically, like I thought,
maybe we would get Fritz von Eric and maybe why
exactly he changed his last name to von Eric, But
they didn't touch on that. They just said, oh, it's
you know, uh, just to be a bad guy. And
you know, you know the wife at the beginning of
the movie, you know, after his match and you know,

(21:00):
he sneaks out the back door and she's like, oh,
the fans hated you basically, and he's like, yep, that's
the idea, you know, and just trying to live you know,
like the live how he is portrayed on TV. You know,
he run in a Cadillac stuff like that, and I
thought maybe we would get into more of the lifestyle
of what that means for that family. But it didn't

(21:25):
really like didn't dive into it too much. And I know,
you only have a certain amount of time to work
with and tell this, like three hours. It's probably too
long for a story like this, but it might have
been the only, like time frame that you could tell
a story for this family. That really hit on a

(21:47):
lot of the things even before the tragedies started. But
you know, it's it could have been more, but I'm
not I don't think they. I don't think it was
like a huge misstep because you have to really hook
it's not just for the wrestling viewer. You know, like
people watch movies for the drama, and there are gonna

(22:09):
be people that aren't wrestling fans that watch this's just
because of the drama, and like even the background probably
know the story of the von eric family who aren't
even wrestling fans, are like, oh, like this might be interesting,
so I'll watch it. So I know it's not exactly
for the hardcore wrestling fan. You got to bring in
the casuals a little bit. So I thought that's probably

(22:30):
why a lot of the the movie was the way
it was, and why me as like the hardcore wrestling
fans like, h like this part could have been better
or this part could have been better, But I tried
not going into it feeling that way.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
I mean that's fair. I think that's all fair. I
think you went into a open for like yeah, like
in depth wrestling store, and you got a familiar.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, it wasn't like that.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
It was how WCCW got to be one of the
best territories in wrestling at that time frame, and what
it meant for the Eric family to hey, like again
they glossed over the NWA title win for Kerry. It's like, okay,
like I thought that could be like a big moment

(23:11):
in the movie that shifts, you know, a family plot
or something, and it just now it didn't go down
like that.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I don't think they use a lot of like
wrestling part of like all of what actually happened in
wrestling to tell that story. It was certainly I think
what they did do a good job of making it
like it was the fabric of that family and how
much it actually meant to them. So it wasn't more
about like, yeah, the promotion and they tried to give
you some like Easter eggs and or things to like

(23:44):
kind of chew on if you're a wrestling fan. They
did have like somebody that played Harley Ray, somebody that
did a terrible Rick Flair, so they tried to they
tried to give you like some wrestling, and there was
a really good wrestling montage as well of when like
the von Eric brothers were together and they were wrestling
as a tag team and all that. So there was
some decent wrestling stuff there, but they they were definitely

(24:05):
not willing to dive any any deeper into it other
than like it is the fabric of who they are.
This is this is like what this family lives, breathes,
and I mean even literally dies for so I they
did that part.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well, it's the family business. And they focused on, like
you said, the interpersonal relationships and the drama and stuff
like that. But John, you take aways from it after
I don't know, watching it again for this show.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, I think this this movie is very good and
I really liked it all of like all of the
things that I had some hang ups about are still
kind of there. And one of the big ones really
was I think they didn't do enough with the mom
because the mom ends up having like one of the
best resolutions or like one of the best endings in

(24:54):
the entire film, and it really doesn't get enough I
think attention because all the attention is really on Dad.
And that's where I had a big problem too, is
the dad was like kind of played as a cartoonish character. Uh,
this there could have been a little bit more depth
to that character and why he was like that, why
he was so hard on his sons, and really I
think playing much more of a dynamic character than a

(25:16):
just a one note. This guy was just a tough SOB.
He had favorites and he let him know, so that
that part of it I didn't like. But this ultimately
is a story about a family that is trying to
get away from whatever it is, this curse or fate
they believe that they have because obviously they're young. Their

(25:37):
oldest brother passed away when he was very young. And
I think that's that was the hook nick for me.
When zach Efron's there with his girlfriend at the time,
or at least they're about to start dating, and she
starts asking about the family and what's most important to him,
and he says family. But it's also like there is
this curse that seems to be following them, and so
to me, it's it's them trying to figure out what

(26:00):
that fate is, trying to run away from it even
though they are causing it, and especially you know, some
of the things like religion, the dad and all of
those that are causing happen and over and over again,
and so it was it was really Kevin von Eric
I think, really him coming to terms with what fate
actually is and how to stop it and what what
was really going on, what this curse was that his

(26:22):
family had on him.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, I think that. You know, when you have a
movie like this, you're going to have stuff that's played
up their entertainment. So for the wrestling hardcore is you're
going to see some stuff and be like, ah, that's
not right, and some things are just blatantly like wow,
they just didn't, like you said, left out Chris, Definitely,
that was not Ric Flair.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
That was not Ric Flair.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
For the record, I thought the Hally Race guy was
pretty good.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
You know, most of the wrestling stuff isn't that bad,
except like the Ric Flair one took you out immediately,
like it's almost like they shouldn't have even tried to
do over. I know they had to do it, but
they did.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
They didn't have to go to the extent that they.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Exactly and it took it completely took my immersion out
at that point of the film because I thought it
wasn't good enough to bring me back. Horrible all of it.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
His entrance didn't feel like Ric Flair and the scene
after the match went in the locker room and he's
just like, I want to get a be here, and
last character, I want to go to get to drink.
I'll be at the Holiday Inn and like, okay, okay,
that's that's Rick. I guess that was Rick. Rick was
talking about back in the eighties drinking and partying. But

(27:36):
so you're gonna have your historical inaccuracies right in the
fact that certain things happened at this time and that
the timelines don't actually fit, you know, history and stuff
like that. But for what the movie is, I thought
it was. I thought it was well done. I thought
it paid again, paid respect to for wrestling. I thought
it paid respect to I would say most of the
von eric family. I don't know if it paid respect

(27:58):
to Fritz as much. And even Kevin Van Derek said
to himself, like they were pretty tough on my dad
because he wasn't quite that guy. Like it wasn't that
guy at all, at least according to Kevin. But in
the movie.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
But that's what I mean, though, that's a great like
there was a little bit more depth to that guy
that needed to be there, to that character. Like I
get he he is supposed to be like almost the
reason why the catalysts for a lot of these things happening,
because how tough he is. But there needed to be
a little bit more with him because he was just
one note, straight jest, evil, pure evil. The entire time.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
I thought he was good as that guy, though I
don't know why.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Oh, the actor was great. The actor is phenomenal. Like
he thought he was great.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
He was a straw that stirred the whole movie unfortunately.
Uh you know, as far as like his actions playing
a part in his kids in their in their actions right,
putting the kids, putting in kids against each other essentially,
you know, he was painted as hello toxic, which maybe
he was in some instances, but again, according to K

(29:00):
wasn't like that at all. But I do like how
the movie portrayed it. Like it they're brotherly bond too
like and in some ways it's sad and in some
ways because at the end we see.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah, in the afterlife, that's the moment for me where
it kind of hit me where it's like none of
them aged the moment they died. Because you have the
first brother who's there as a baby, you know, and
I was kind of like, damn, Like that's the part
where it struck me off the whole movie where like

(29:34):
I like got Goosbump said. When I was watching that,
I was like, damn.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
You know what's funny, that's the one part. That's the
one part of the ending that I don't really like.
I think they were trying to go to sentiment, right, that's.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
I agree, because I wasn't expecting it, you know, and
the fact that I saw that, and uh, I was
kind of like, wow, I wasn't expecting a reunion you
know in the after Yeah, and it's just the first
the three brothers didn't really give me that moment. It's
when I saw what was it Jack Jackson hear that

(30:07):
as a baby, you know. It was like they met
their brother for the first time there, and it was
just kind of like wow.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah. And I think the reason I had a problem
with that is because spirituality and religion like did play
a part in this story, and how it was kind
of a way for them to deflect a lot of
the problems that they had so then to use this
kind of spiritual afterlife realm that like everything's aokay in there.
I kind of wish that they would have taken that
out and really have the The emotional sentimental part of

(30:39):
this movie be about Kevin von eric finding family now
finding like breaking the cycle of what has happened to
his family, what has happened to his brothers, and kind
of looking at his own sons and breaking this this curse,
this cycle, And it was mostly him doing it out
of being stronger and having the will to be able

(31:01):
to step away from something that he loved or something
stepped away from his family, Like he had to make
a really tough decision to get to a place where
his kids could go up in something that he didn't
feel was that toxic or terrible And for him to
like realize it and see it at the end and
to see his kind of brothers in it was like
he was just looking at this is what this is
what our family was supposed to be, and this is

(31:21):
what this is what we could have had. Yeah, and
him cherishing the moments, the small moments that he did
have with them like that.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, obviously that's something that's played with for entertainment, because
I guess it was supposed to be in Kevin von
Errick's mind and his vision of what they'd be doing. Yeah,
at that point it.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Just felt too much like it's a literal realm thing.
To me. It was like this is this is going
a little bit too deep into that sentimental territory, and
I think it's kind of actually taking away from one
point that they were making because they would religion was
a huge part of this film.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I agree with that. I think that it was just
again an effort to show that like these brothers, despite
the track, we all loved each other.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, you know, is it could it be?

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Could you say as heavy handed? Maybe, but I think
that was it was out of respect to the brotherly
bond that they had. Artistically, is it perfect? Probably not.
Does the movie need it? I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
But I think I think that's a great way to
put it. I don't know if it's artistically perfect, but
I think the the artistic sentiment, yes, that that they
are that he's trying to capture that this these group
of brothers still absolutely loved each other throughout despite all
of the things that happened, Despite that there were suicides
and there was depression and unhappiness and drug abuse because

(32:37):
of it, all that there still was an unbreakable bond
between all of that.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yes, yes, and usually should have probably given a trigger
warning we're gonna talk about this type of oh.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
I know, yeah, this this stuff gets heavy, man. Yeah.
And you know what, I'll give credit to as well,
because they talked a lot about they did leave a
death of one of the von Erics out of it,
and the director said he actually said this during an interview.
He's like, we couldn't include it because it would have
been just two damn sad. Like, we did have to

(33:08):
make an artistic decision to make sure that this isn't
the most sad movie and like, because you you run
the risk of losing an audience if you were to
make it that way. And to his credit, when I
watched it at the AMC in Springfield, and I remember
there was there was a mom in the row behind
us watching it with like I think our teenage stuns.

(33:29):
And after the last death of the movie, all you
hear is her go scream out loud. I don't know
how much more I can take of this, Like it
was legitimately it was. It was tough to get to
that point. And then finally, like I think they bring
it home in a really good way that pulls you
back in. But they they ran that risk, and I
think they ended up writing a pretty pretty great paced

(33:52):
script to to really not pull you so far away
from this this movie because it gets tough, It gets
really tough to watch.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, think they could have told it, especially because if
Fritz wasn't like that in real life, they could have
you know, talked about how the wrestling business is tough
and that's why, right, these guys you know, went through
what they went through.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, they really shot away from like wrestling. Obviously, they
showed the grind of wrestling. I don't think they showed
as much the politics of wrestling and how mentally draining
it could be. Was more put on the dad than anything,
because the dad was also running the promotion and he
was the one making the decisions of like, well, Kevin,
you know you got to be better here, your brother's better,
so we're gonna do it. So he was again he

(34:36):
was the crux of it all, not wrestling itself. It
was more again just on the dad doing it all.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah. Yeah, like I said, ranked as kids at one
point when they're at the dinner table, Yeah, I mean
you are my favorite now, but those rankings can change, Like.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, I think the honestly the worst scene for me
is when they're they're playing football and it's just a
montage of the dad throwing insults left and right, Like, dude,
we know the guy was bad, but come on, like
we get it, get.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
He loves carry. You're the best linebacker in the state.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, playing what to on two and that's why, like
you doing these drills or why you're the best you know, yeah,
not you know, on the football field against eleven other guys,
you know.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
So I did want to ask Nick because like, this
isn't a completely accurate like casting, I guess, or or betrayal,
just be in terms of size, like Carrie was bigger
than Kevin, and Kevin this movie is like a gigantic,
like mythical creature.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
So played.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, but the thing is yes, and the thing is
you're right. But also, zac Efron was definitely more suited
for the personality.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Of the area.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
So it was so but it took it definitely took
my brother out of the film a bit. He's like,
I know I'm watching the Von ericson. I know I'm
watching it sort of incorrectly and how it all looks me.
I can past it because I'm just looking at a movie.
I can I can shut off everything I don't need. Uh.
So it's like historical details or details to like a
minute detail. And if you're watching, like take some wrestling

(36:12):
fans out of it, I know that if.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
You're watching from a non fan standpoint, you have no ideas,
you have no firm of reference to maybe try to
switch that part of your brain off. And I guess
the same too. If you're a non fan and you're
watching this for the first time, you're not expect you
don't know anything about the von eric family. You don't
know anything that's gonna happen in this movie. You just
a twenty four, it's got Zac therefran, I'm gonna check
it out, and then you see what happens. Yeah, I'm
not surprised. Somebody was like, how much more can I

(36:35):
take of this?

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Like it just definitely my brothers who have watched a
lot of that stuff, like it took that. It took
him out of it, like it took him back a
little bit. It's like, you know, this is it's a
little bit not like the von Erics, Like it's just
it's it's the name is being said and like everything
like Kevin's there and Carry's there. But it didn't take
him out a little bit.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
I will say I looked David von Eric second best
casting in the movie that that look like David Vonair tall,
kind of slender cowboy hat.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
And Harris Dickinson is a fantastic actor, so I bought.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Him even though he wasn't like a one for one recreation.
I bought him as the heart was it? What was
his nickname? Man, the Yellow Rose David Van Eric. I'
might have to look that up now, Yeah, yellow Rose
of Texas. There we go. I know my stuff. I
knew it was a yellow Rose, but I forgot the

(37:30):
full nickname. But yes, I bought Harris Dickinson as David
van Erk. Jeremy Allen White as Carrie van Eric not
as much, but he did his best. He did his best.
He boked up too, to the best of his ability.
Caravan Eric otherwise, on the other hand, was like haul
Cogan out there. He was huge.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
But yeah, I mean like it almost is to the
point where like Sean Durkin, you think at one point
I had to go to zag like yo, tone it down, dude, Yeah,
you are too big for this role.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
I just don't know, Like I guess because Flair was cast,
But why they couldn't show like old footage of Flair
promos when they had Summer Slam ninety one on the TV.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
They had carry Van Eric or Texas Tornado when in
the inter Continent there and I was checking it out,
I'm like, that's that's the actual footage, So yeah, why
did they use that?

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Like I was there. I made a cameo on this
show on this movie. Oh you were you were there
summer nineties?

Speaker 1 (38:24):
So did they pay you for that?

Speaker 3 (38:26):
I gotta email them with the screenshot? You should like,
by the way, there I am in the crowd.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Pay me money this this little speck in that picture grainy.
I might have been on the hard cam side, But
they don't.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Know that on that two TV that that the IC
had in that living room in that day.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
During the day. Like I don't think SummerSlam was, you know,
in the afternoon or whatever. But I mean, I don't.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Know who knows. It was summertime in August and Texas.
Something could have been out for all we know. But yeah,
I think that again, one of the better wrestling movies
that's been made about pro wrestling. Where would you kind
of quick rank this John in the pantheon of wrestling

(39:12):
films feature length films.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
So I don't think there are very many good ones.
So this one automatically is like pretty high on because
it is it is really good, Like it's quality a
twenty four dramatic, you know, kind of indie blockbuster movie
that just fits the production company so well, and this
was like a great script for them to put out
and it it hit big, and I'm surprised that they didn't.

(39:38):
They didn't back this as much for the awards, so
this didn't really get much. I thought Zach Effron should
have gotten at least a nomination for Best Actor. I
thought he was phenomenal. He's the best part of this
film that made this was this is really a showcase
for Zach Effron, and I think like a role that
he was absolutely meant to play in a way that like,

(40:01):
I don't think the Rock in this new movie that
he's playing the MMA guy, it's not even Gonnas like
it's it's they're trying to do something for the Rock
in this same vein, and it's just not because the
Rock is a terrible actor. I think Zach Effron's actually solid.
Yeah name they cast him like extremely well. So when
you get that, when you get a solid actor, like

(40:23):
a good script and good casting, this is what you get.
And I think he should have been nominated, which is
a shame. But because of that, like, yeah, it automatically
shoots up. I still think The Wrestler from what I remember,
I've watched it a couple of times, but it's been
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
I loved The Wrestler, uh so that I don't know
if it quite reaches that. But the Iron Call, Yeah,
it's it's just automatically up there because it's I don't
think wrestling has been It's not often you see wrestling
in the cinema world portrayed in this kind of quality way.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
That's true. And I still got to see Queen of
the Ring too, so we will say that our rankings
are pre I do need to see that Queen of
the Ring viewing that will also be a future deep.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
There was also another wrestling film that came out around
the time of it called Cassandro. It's more about Lucha
libre and it was a bio pick about a gay
amateur wrestler from al Passo. Uh, and that got like
pretty good reviews, So that one as well, I think
I need to watch to make a determination.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
But interview Cassandra for a story, like really, yeah, that's
just twelve years ago. They did There's a Luta show
here at twenty three hundred Arena and I got to
talk to that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, they they did a they did a movie uh
on Cassandro and apparently ended up being pretty good. So
I would have to check that out as well. But yeah,
I would still say, like The Iron Claw is obviously
gonna be way up there, just because again there's not
many quality wrestling movies, especially none made in the way
that it was me.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, because what do we got? We got like Iron Claw,
we got the wrestler, we got Ready to Rumble, we
got I guess No holds Barre is technically a wrestling movie.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Bro up there, man, it's number one. I was waiting
for my for my opportunity, but that's gotta be number one.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
And you know what's really sad? I would say kind
of up there fighting with my family wasn't a.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Terrible I've never seen my family.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
It wasn't terrible. It was like a perfectly fine movie.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
I've seen what was it the main event that was
on like a Netflix like like w W like Disney
movie where the kid becomes a wrestler. Have you.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, I'm looking at right now and I see that
Lee and.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Keith Lee is like a like a singer. He's like
a like a smooth, like lounge room singer slash wrestler.
It's the wildest thing with the kid is like the
people up think Kobe Kingston is like one of the
villains in the movie. Like it's wild.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
So there is there is wrestling in Rocky three. So
is that considered a wrestling movie? It's still a boxing movie.
It's one of the worst rocket I actually hate that movie.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
But Rocky three? Is that what? That's what club or
lang it?

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (43:02):
Yeah, okay, I didn't like that one.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Fighting with my family got really lucky because they got
Florence Pugh, like a pretty young Florence Pugh still like
kind of making her way up the.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Marine. Uh man, Yeah, I forgot over the Top is
maybe considered a wrestling movie? Uh and oh nachal liebra right, Yeah,
but yeah, not a lot of wrestling movie. So Iron

(43:35):
Claud goes pretty much straight to the top outside of
like you said, the wrestler.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, so what what would I mean? Are there any
I mean the von Erics are obviously that's that story
just tells itself and how tragic it is. But there's
always like this kind of great. You could make so
many great stories out of this, Like is there a
story you would want to see?

Speaker 1 (43:55):
What the thing is? I would want to. I would
want to not even cinema. I would wanted to be
like a Seeri. I think when you want like a
fully fleshed out story a movie, especially about like real
life events, ninety minutes two hours, I think people always
leave like, oh they look this out, Oh they left
that out. And it's because it's tough to do it

(44:15):
in that limited amount of time. We don't want to
keep people in the theaters all day. So eight part
mini series type deal. I think if you did the
von eric Family like mini series, I think it would
be even better than The Iron Claw. But if I
went somewhere else, man, the hard Family would be kind
of cool. If we did one on that, Yeah, a lot.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
It's so funny to see everybody go to the biopic
route and not not pick wrestling as as a way
to do it, because we've we've seen biopicks on everything
at this point, especially music artists, Like it is an
overabundance of it, and none of them are good. The
only one I've really enjoyed is like rocket Man, and
that's about it all.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
I thought the Ray Charles movie was pre to get
my opinion.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
It was pretty good, yeah, right, because Jamie Fox was
just phenomenal in that.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yes, but yeah, like you know, like Dewey Cox walk
Cart even it's not a biopic, but Dewey Cox, he.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Didn't get like a Bohemian rhapsody, you know, like this
is nothing of this really tarnishes like a legacy of
a band with how bad this is and how bad
that they portray like an lgbt Q icon in Freddie
Berker and portrayed him so terribly and really brushed aside
that part of his life. But like wrestling is I
think Taylor made for biopicks like Taylor made for and

(45:34):
the thing is, like I know, I know, the tough
part about it is is that you know wrestling because
you do have somebody like Hal Cogan who is a
figure that is now like a complete tarnished legacy. But
always the thing about movies is that I think you
should be able to have the creative liberty to tell
a story like that and tell it truthfully. But I
don't think they they have to stay completely away from

(45:56):
doing like a hal Cogan movie, you can betray him
as a terrible dude like that is it's it's okay
to portray terrible people and let people know that this
guy's bad.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
I mean, didn't they try And they try to do
it with the what's his name? Who played four what's
his name? Chris Hemsworth? Yeah, yeah, in the Cards and
they want to kill it like Vincric band stuff.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Do it like you you can still without idolizing these guys.
That's where I have, Like if you do have a
good director, you do have a good script, you do
have people who are intentionally making a film to be
good with a message to say you can make a
movie on that stuff. It's when like I the one
I the stuff I hate is like idolizing serial killers
and like all they do is just make a movie

(46:38):
or TV series about a serial killer.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Just does play Ted Bundy like that.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
It's funny that's exactly like the kind of things I'm
talking about. We're like, I don't think there's really anything
here other than let's idolize, and people are doing Halloween
costumes on them. Like, you don't have to idolize to
make these characters like iconic figures. You can. You can
show the tragedy and downfall of them and show show everything.

(47:06):
There's there's so so many sides to tell. But again,
in order to do that, you would have to have
somebody that's really willing to kind of stick their neck
out and do it, and also have a damn good
enough script and vision to be able to pull that off,
because that can be very tough.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
There's a reason why Dark Side of the Ring is
so successful, right because people like, oh yeah, the Price
of Fame type of stories. They liked peing people at
the height of the fame and the downfall and everything
that comes with it. So I agree with you. I
think wrestling biopics could be the new wave if they
Iron Claw proved to be a money maker and that
was about the von Erics. You know, their peak was

(47:39):
forty years ago. Now, Fritz van Erk hasn't wrestled in
you know, hadn't wrestled in decades. So if they can
make money with the Van eric family, imagine what they
could do with, like you said, Fans McMahon or Haul
Cogan or Steve Austin or somebody like that and not
just do it through the lens of like WWE or
something like that.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
And I know'd be really hard to pull off. And
there was a documentary of them, but really the Giant
is a really tragic figure, uh in wrestling, just because
of like all the things he did and then how
late into his life again because he was it seemed
like from the documentary like he was a very kind
of depressed guy, like he kind of understood all the
shortcomings that came with being who he was and and

(48:19):
having the condition that he did. I think there's like
a really great biopic to be told there.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
But I think there's a lot. I think there's a
lot of good stories to be told. Yeah, right, in
wrestling in general. Nigg anybody or any subject that you
would like to see potentially turned into a feature length
film or even like I said, a give me an
eight part mini series, Like I'm watching a crime drama
or detective show. What do you what do you what
stories would you like to see depicted in movie slash television.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
Give me the Rise and Fall of the n w L,
we gotta fish off Biopickrent call, we gotta.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Have Vincent and involved to who's gonna Who's gonna play Vincent? No,
he's gonna p Scott Norton. Man's true.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
That's true. No, I mean like the Heart family you
said earlier. I thought that was like number one on
my list for I'm thinking about like wrestling families, like
I guess the Jarrett family would be.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Like a the Heart was really good, like especially with
what you know, the tragedy of Owen and yeah, like I.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Think the Art family and with the new fan love
I have for Brett as a performer really since this
we started this podcast, where I don't think I appreciated
him as much back when I was growing up that uh,
And like we've had a lot of those stories told,
So I don't necessarily know how it could be different

(49:44):
enough to.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
TV show. You can open it up to new audiences
with doc.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
That's what I'm saying, So what can they do that?
But the way to open that up, I.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Guess there are themes that you can take out of
it and and more of instead of like it's almost
like the way Iron Claw did. They they kind of
took the von Ericks in a way of like using
this as a story about fate and destiny and breaking
a cycle and family. Family, Yeah, and family, right, Like
there's all these things that you can take out of it.
It doesn't have to strictly be like let's just show

(50:17):
wrestling and like because like because the problem is that
you get into really like yeah, the goofiness of wrestling.
But I think if you were to dive into the
character driven stories that these really are, like, yeah, Brett
hard has plenty of things that you can dive deep into.
Oh yeah, Like I think, gosh, it was Jeff Hardy
is one, like if they I guess because he's still

(50:40):
happening that Like it's tough to do that, but like
there was there's a lot that went on in his
life and the Hardy Brothers in general, and then everything
that's happened with Jeff, you know, on on his road
to addiction and recovery and all those things. There there's
there's there's so many interesting people and characters and wrestling
that it just works to me so easily to make
it a biopick and a way that I think music

(51:01):
is hard to do sometimes because to capture that essence
is hard. But I think you can capture the essence
of pro wrestling and pro wrestlers, yeah, a little bit
better on screen.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
And I think you know you it's hard. It's tough
for to get people to learn how to be pro
wrestlers too. You gotta either to teach someone or you
gotta hire stunt doubles slash indie wrestlers to do it
for you. And you got to produce day, got get
a ring, I get an audience, and it's easy to
have two people in a room or have them talk right,
which would also fascinate me more than like the wrestling

(51:32):
as far as like if I wanted to see a
Heart family like series, right, you don't have to make
it really about wrestling. You can make it about the
family dynamic. There's twelve Heart members and that that generation, right,
that particular generation Brett and all his siblings. It's like
twelve of them, right.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
We can you know the way Iron clag got rid
of Chris, we can get rid of Bruce.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
We don't need This is why I'm.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Making it eight parts and each episode is like an
hour and change. Because we can focus on Bruce and Smith.
We can get we can get them involved, we can
get the fact that all the sisters married wrestlers and
how did how did uh how did they feel about that?
Like how did Stu feel about all of the marrying wrestlers?
Like that's to me that that'd be fascinating to watch

(52:15):
as like an eight part maybe even ten parts, like
series that you watch.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Have A surviv series ninety four is two episodes where
Helen throws on the towel I didn't want to see
my baby get hurt.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
At as Survivor series of all places, the worst pay
per view they had back I'm god, who's gonna play
block Backland?

Speaker 4 (52:36):
Though?

Speaker 1 (52:37):
It'd just be Bob Backland themselves?

Speaker 2 (52:41):
What about Sting? Would Sting being interested?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Well, you know what's funny is they like, uh, Jim
Hellway got like a cameo a little bit, and he did.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
I was gonna, I was gonna mention that, but go ahead,
you can.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yeah. I was like, uh so, And it's funny because
I was like, oh, were they attack table? I just thought,
you know, Ultimate Warrior and stingword attacks game before, so
he Hey, if you do Sting, you could you could
do an episode about him in The Ultimate Warrior at least.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
I mean, yeah, why not? I feel like Fritz also buried.
You're way better than him.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Carrie and Ultimate Warrior like the same to me when
they were TV like the Survivors series ninety. When they
teamed up, I was like, oh, they're the same guy.
A second, Carrie looks bigger than the Ultimo Warrior at
some point, you know, I.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Will say this movie one of the biggest inaccuracies among
the many, right, which is again to be expected sometimes
with biopics. Man Caravan Eric got no justice in this
movie as far as how big he was. If you
judging them based off of Jeremy Allen White, you are
sadly mistaken. But obviously people you listen to this, you know,

(53:50):
but if you if you're listening to this, you're not
a wrestling fan. You have no frame of reference to
the actual Carryvan Eric. Go back and look up Texas
Tornado even Carry Vane Eric and WCCW. But by the
time he had the WWF, he was huge by that time.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Yeah, so first time I saw him SummerSlam nineties, So uh,
that was a big carry ron Eric mark I was
like Texas Stortado. Yeah, hell he was my guy.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
It was dope. He was really good.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Let's switch over to kind of some categories here, to
kind of steer the conversation with some different things here.
Who gave what were some of your guys like favorite
scenes from the movie. I'll give one up top, and
it would be Mike's performance they had on a college
campus when he they snuck out of the house where
they said he has like he's part of a band Mike,

(54:40):
vand Eric and he has a performance. He has a
gig on the college campus and he's like, hey, you know,
can I go and do this gig? And Doris is like, hell, no,
you can't go up there and do that. He's like
but dad, and Fritz is like, you heard your mom.
So the brothers hear this, and again this is a
nice touching moment in the movie. To show like the
brothers really loved each other. They helped Mike sneak out
of the house, all of them. Carrie too, Yeah, she

(55:04):
was there too, messing around about Eric boys. But Carrie,
keV and David all helped Mike sneak out of the house, uh,
and to go play his gig, and it's like it's
like a music scene. He does his gig and everybody's
having a good time. But it was like a nice
moment to.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
A by the way, that song yeah for a bit.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Yeah, was it like I want this to stay this
way forever or something like that, which is like a
very appropriate song for the moment. It's like they're all
together having a good time and you know, you know,
especially if you know the story, you know this is
you know, probably gonna be a high moment in this movie, unfortunately.
But I thought that scene was nice and it was
nice like moment in time for them and again another

(55:43):
sentimental piece of the movie to said like show like, hey,
these brothers really did love and care for each other. Nick,
did you have a favorite scene that you want to
to highlight.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
I mean, that was a good one as far as
feel good moments, that was probably up there. Obviously the wedding.
Kevin's wedding is good up until you know, we see
him and Dave in the bathroom a little bit.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
That, which is another historical inaccuracy because right the timeline
does not match up there whatsoever does not.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Does not, But you knew that was like the turning point. Basically,
it's like all the good things we've been feeling, the
good feelings are about to turn and again again. That
was maybe an hour or so into the movie where
it just wasn't I was kind of like, okay, like
I understand again, knowing what was to come probably made

(56:31):
me feel that way a little bit to where I
was like, I don't like the highs of the highs
because I know we're gonna get to the lows of
the lows, and I don't want to like set myself
up almost even though I know what's going to happen.
It's not.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
I think it's like a lesson in the movie. It's like,
enjoy those good moments when I have them, right if
you know this is but in the moment, you don't
know whether things are going to be bad in the future,
so regardless, enjoy it because you don't.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Know what's God and the things Kevin was saying to
David and and stuff like that, and even you know,
later on, after David dies, you know, Kevin finds a
postcard that David sent from Japan and it's like, you know,
by the time you read this anyway, I'll probably be home.
So I was just kind of like, oh, man, like
it just that was kind of the moment that set

(57:17):
the mood for me on the It was like the
peak for me. I guess you could say that's fair.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
And again that historical inaccuracy is that in the movie,
David van Erik dies the week after Carrie Kevin van
Eric marys Pam right, so that would put the wedding
in David's death. Obviously, David's death was nineteen eighty four,
that would put the wedding also in nineteen eighty four. However,

(57:44):
Kevin and Pam were married in nineteen eighty so four
years before David van Eric has passed away. Passes away,
but he did pass away during the strip in Japan,
that was correct, but it was four years after the wedding,
but they did it like it was the very next week,
which would have been super tragic if that was tragic
either way, but like that would have been wild, but

(58:06):
that was not the case. It was another four years
that went by.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Weird that happened, including Chris was too tragic. But putting
these two events back to back was you know, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
You know that's that's fair. But I guess again, you
gotta smush, you know, smush it all down into I
guess in this case a little over two hours. I
believe the run time was so.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
But that's also you know, like four years later you
could just put on the screen. But that's a long past.
It is it is, it is, so I understand why
they had to do that. It's like, wait, four years
just everything was the same, Like, it doesn't make sense
with this family.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
So, John, what was your one of your favorite scenes
from The Iron Claw?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
So? I would say there's two. Definitely the date with
zac Efron and the girls with them always forgetting your name, Pam, Pam,
to being his wife Pam. Yeah, that was a great
one because I think if like if you were to
see so Oscar nominations, like when they do Best Actor,
they'll show like a clip from the movie, like that's
the clip, that's the clip you show of Zach Effron.

(59:07):
He was so good in that scene and I think
really set the tone for the movie.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
But also the other by the way I think it
really opens because we didn't really know Kevin the character yet. Yeah,
I think that kind of opened it up a little bit.
I was like, Okay, this is what Kevin's about.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Yes, it was, It's what he was about his like
he was vulnerable and he had fears and it took
like obviously his future wife to like get it out
of him and the things that he was really fearful of.
So yeah, that was, like, it was a super interesting
part of the movie and really set the tone again
for Kevin and everything that was to happen. But also
the other one. I talked about it before and it's
still like I wish he would have gotten more screen

(59:42):
time because I think it was really a great way
to end, like to show kind of the cycle being broken,
when his mom is painting after like and the dad
comes in, Fritz comes in and he's like kind of baffled, like, Oh,
what are you doing that for? I didn't know you
did that, because really what he did was suppress a

(01:00:02):
lot of the creativity, a lot of like everything that
they did was really to please their dad, and everything
that they did it required a bunch of sacrifices and
sacrifices of the self and sacrifices of creativity. And finally
that was the one to like kind of show the
cycle was broken that like she even the mom like
couldn't go through with it anymore. And so she decided
to paint and she decided to be you know, show

(01:00:24):
this creative side of her that she she feels like
it wasn't allowed to happen in that household. So that
that to me was like a that crushed me as
a scene, and it was again I think the mom
as a character, there was so much more there that
they should have done with her. But I'm really glad
that they had that moment with her because she needed
it and it was I think it's still the best
moment of the entire movie.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Yeah, he comes into the kitchen and Fritz goes, what's
for dinner? And she goes, I'm not hungry.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Yeah right, exactly right. It doesn't just doesn't make him dinner,
you know, like it like breaks the cycle. It's just
like she becomes her own thing. And that's the big
thing as well as you chat with the music scene,
that's a big thing as well. It's like that that
character that van Eric not not being suppressed by what
his dad wants more of. I want to make music,

(01:01:10):
I want to do this thing and really paid the
price for it ultimately. So yeah, it was it was
everything that they were trying to tell I think was
really told. Well finally at the end of that scene.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, Marrow Tyranny playing Doris van Eric in a very
tragic manner. They pretty much went whenever there was an
expression of grief, you kind of showed Doris, but like
in a very matter of fact way, especially because she
had gone through it. Unfortunately. Multiple times we've been talking

(01:01:42):
about Jack, we're talking about David, and in the movie,
Mike and Carrie, but also Chris in her life. So
we're talking in a movie though four times.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
And in quote too, she says like, I'm tired of
wearing this dress.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yes, and that's what that's what they focused on, his
black dress that she would put on for these funerals.
She wore for David, you know, and that's the first
time we saw it in the movie, and then for
I believe it was Mike's funeral or was a carriage
to you? And I forget which one that she was
just like, I know the thing is Mike's funeral. When
she's like, I can't wear it again, it's people know
it now. I can't do it again and that's heartbreaking

(01:02:17):
to see her. Like, first time she's putting it on,
she's like, you know, keeping it together, you know, and
trying her best to hold it together. The second time,
it's just on the bed and she's just looking at
it like not again. So I thought that was really
good framing of Doris. Again, I agree with you, she
didn't get that much screen time, she didn't get that
much to do, but what she did was kind of impactful.
It's pretty impactful as far as like it was expressing

(01:02:40):
the degrief of the Vonaic family and what they were
going through at this point in time. The toughest scene,
I thought, because there's a couple of them. I thought
Mike's death was pretty tough. And this is where, yeah,
this is where Doris sees the black dress again and
it's just like her not wanting to put it on.

(01:03:02):
So I would go with Mike's Mike's death because Mike didn't,
according to the movie, didn't usually want to wrestle, wasn't
particularly good at it when he was doing it, and
he was a music guy. So but to see that
happen after the show to surgery and he goes into
a coma and all that, it was pretty tough to watch.
But John and what was one of your what was

(01:03:23):
your toughest scene of the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
It definitely has to be the final death death and
Kevin carrying him to the table and just laying him
there and sitting in it like finally that was the
breaking point for him and like we've been waiting for it,
So that one man that crushes me every time. That
is that is tough to watch.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
That's fair, that's mine. Uh. And then still the immediate
fight between Fritz and Kevin is like as carry's bleeding
out by the tree, like, I'm like, what is going
on here?

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
It's dark like that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
I don't think that's what happened in real life, but
that's dark.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Yeah, Like maybe they had a confrontation or something, but
I'm just like, damn, Like it just makes Fritz look terrible.
That more terrible than he already has throughout the movie.
So yeah, that was that was brutal. That was a
brutal watch.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Best performance, Nick who who gave the best performance of
the movie in your opinion.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Mike was pretty good. I'll give Mike that. I'm gonna
go with Kevin. Zach Efron as Kevin because he just
has the whole like beginning to end of the movie
and just how he uh shows his emotions and how
he tries to keep the brothers together and and you know,
the turmoil that's happening. I thought was great. But I

(01:04:45):
really liked Mike. You know, the what what what was it?
Kerry and Kevin going to pick him up from like
band practice and just saying, you know, like let's get
burgers and stuff. It was like so as a matter
of fact, you know, like that was a cool moment
going to see Mike play his gig on college campus,
Like that was awesome. The gig itself was awesome. That

(01:05:07):
the song was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
I told you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
As a banger, I was like, it's been in my
head since I watched the movies. So I thought Mike
was a great character. But uh, I gotta make choice
book Kevin Zach Efron is Kevin John.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Yeah, it's either more Tyranny as Dottie or I mean really,
and I guess to his credit to Zach Effron as
Kevin von Eric, which I think is like the whole movie.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
He he was going up against like Jeremy Allen White,
and Harris Dickotson, who were really like getting a ton
of attention coming into this film. They had been in
big projects, they have been getting bigger projects since like
these these two were really like starting to get to
the height and like they were. They were the ones
that were getting a lot of tension coming into this

(01:05:53):
and zac Effron completely out outshine every single one of them.
This became like he made it his movie. This was
essentially Zach Efron's movie, which is so tough to do
with the cast that they had, and he absolutely nailed it.
So all the credit the world. I really, if there's
anything this movie should have been nominated for, I think
some people went too far and like this should have
been Best Picture all that. I don't think he was

(01:06:14):
that good, but zac Effron I think deserved the nomination
for Best Actor, Like I really think he had. He
deserved one of those five spots.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
You know, It's funny, I totally forgot MJF was in
this movie, so I saw that I forgot about that too.
To think about him wrestling while Kevin's on the Aprons
just waiting for a tag and not getting it, and
I was like, oh yeah, MJF. That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
There's a couple of wrestlers in this movie that we
might recognize. We'll mention in a little bit. But as
far as my favorite performance, I agree with Zach Effron
and more Tyranny is also a great one. If we
got to mention Mike Vonerik played by Stanley Simons. By
the way to a Nick's favorite performance, I almost I'm
still go with uh first, Von Eric, which who was

(01:06:59):
played by his name escape me now, Uh yeah, Hoult mccalloney.
Great actor, he's in Mind Hunters. He's a great actor,
So I apologize.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
He's a really good actor, but his last name.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I just thought he did a good job of making
you hate friends Van Eric, which is clearly what they
wanted you to do. Whether that was accurate or not,
it's a different story. But they wanted you to dislike
Fritz van Eric, and I think, yeah, they made that
very clear.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
And I thought he did a good job of just
being Fritz, being that old school kind of gruff, kind
of you know, kind of guy, heartworking kind of guy.
So I thought he did a really good job with
the performance. But again, everybody, I think really gave it.
They're all on this nobody was half stepping in this movie. Whatsoever.
They gave, you know, top flight performances all around. Now,

(01:07:47):
let's switch gears to I have here, Like what were
some of the wrestling references that we got in the
movie and some of the reference wrestling mentions that we
got here in the movie. We mentioned m JF was
in the movie, so was Nimath who was Gino Hernandez
in the movie. We saw Bruiser Brody at one point

(01:08:08):
with Gino Hernandez who was the guy. Didn't it didn't
look quite as tall as Bruce of Brody was back
in the day, but it was kind of it was
kind of buff, you know. We did get to see
the world Class Championship wrestling like entrant intro and presentation,
which I thought was a nice touch. Again another just
paying respect to the source material that is world Class

(01:08:31):
and the von Eeric family also not sure how common
it was back then for the Heels and the baby
Faces to talk over everything together. Back in those days,
I'm pretty sure they had separate locker rooms and liaison
relaying messages back and forth. I'm not sure how much
they got in the same room and actually talk to
each other, but I could be wrong. I wasn't there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Again, they recreated one of Harley Race's promos during the movie,
which I thought, again another little touched if you have
you're wrestling fans like, oh, I might recognize that that
looks familiar. And this's one of those promoms where Harley
Race is holding the title and expressing how just how
much it means to him. Actually a really dope promo
if you actually haven't seen it, they try to recreate it,

(01:09:15):
and I thought they did a decent job. Again, I
thought the guy who played Harley Race did a good job.
But the Kevin Van eric Rick flair match, I don't
know what year that was supposed to be, from what
time period it happens, I believe, I don't know when
it happens, but it happens like in like eighty seven
according to the movie or something like that. But I
don't know if it even happened at that point. But

(01:09:37):
we did get a cameo from the ten Pounds of
Gold in the movie, which was like, I don't know
how many times you've seen that belt in the movie.
We got to see it during or after, I should say,
Carrie van Erk wins the NWA World title, which we
don't actually see, which is like, that's disappointing in my opinion.
That's like the height of the Van Eric family. Show

(01:10:00):
him at the lowest moments. Let's show him at the
height when Carrie wins the title. Yeah, that's in Texas
Stadium in front of like forty fifty thousand people.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
Like that's part of the thing I mentioned earlier where
it's like, let let's see some of that, you know,
because we don't really see the highs of the von
Eric family. I think that would the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Height we see. It's when winning the six man titles,
essentially in world class because I wouldn't even consider Carrie
winn an icy title to be a high high because
they showed him coming back home and he's not in
a good space.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Yeah. By the way, he was married with kids. Uh
and they never mentioned that in the movie or portrayed
that in the movies. So not sure why, but yeah,
I just the Kevin Van Eric Flair match was in
nineteen eighty three.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
I feel like in the movie it's much later than
eighty three. It's after David van Erk passes away, which
David van Erk passed away nineteen eighty four. Yeah, but
that's at the point where Kevin is like disillusioned with
the business pretty much.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Well, maybe they had more than one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Match, that's fair, but I don't know if they had it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
At that Texas Stadium. The Texas Stadium match was in
the eighty five, so.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Okay, maybe it could have been in but I feel
like it was later than that. But whatever. But yeah,
at least we got ten pounds of goal. But I
still think I still think that's one big hole in
this movie is that they did not show Carrie went
in the title. I feel like that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
I mean, I was waiting for it was yeah, okay,
like because that's you think the peak, right for David.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Parade of Champions, bro. Yeah, yeah, the Parade of Champions.
We didn't even I don't even know if they even
showed the robe that Carrie wore when he had like
this blue robe but it said like it was like
a yellow rose in the back because that was David
van Eric the Yellow Rods of Texas, and it was
like this beautiful robe that he had made especially made
for his brother, and in tribute to his brother. They
just showed him kind of walking out into a stadium nondescript.

(01:11:57):
I don't think they even mentioned that it was Texas Stadium.
You know, like that was a big, big deal back
in eighty four. You didn't see too many stadium shows
and for Texas Stadium to be the show, not the
Cotton Bowl. Even the Cotton Bowl's huge, but like we're
talking about where the Cowboys played in the early eighties,
they were a huge obviu. It's still huge, but like
you know, they were huge in Texas back in eighty four.
So yeah, I think that was a missed opportunity. Maybe

(01:12:19):
they rain out of money, Like they didn't have enough
money in the budget to make it look like there
were forty thousand people in the building that particular day.
You mentioned earlier that we got a Jim Helwig mentioned,
so that was pretty interesting and oh we got to

(01:12:40):
look I did. Like one of my favorite scenes also
was how they shot like a night at the Sportatorium
where you kind of come up to the building and
see all the people milling about, walking around and stuff
like that. I'm not sure how many black people were
welcome at that building back in the day, but hey,
it was a legendary wrestling venue, you know, so that

(01:13:01):
was cool, and the montage to rush tom Sois that
was dope. But yeah, we just kind of they did
kind of bounce around at certain points. We go from
Carrie winning the world title in eighty four and then
he wakes up and all of a sudden, he has
one foot. We just jumped ahead two years. How did

(01:13:25):
we get here? So again, that's you gotta like, you know,
I guess squeeze everything in for time. But I thought
that was a big bit of a abrupt transition. It
felt like as was kind of like going from Texas

(01:13:46):
Stadium to just sitting in the kitchen after too, which
I guess it's intentional to show like kind of the
matter of fact way of winning a world title what
it can actually look like. Like. You would think like, oh,
you winning world tired, You're going to you have a
parade down the street the neck that night, or you
go to the club and spend all your money up
you know, girls everywhere in bottles. No, he just went

(01:14:08):
to his parents house and there is the belt sitting
in Fritz's house.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Yeah, actually, what I really mean, it's like it's like
all this this big hive him winning and still like
this there was something so empty about it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Yeah, I think that was intentional, but it was kind
of abrupt for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
I think maybe uh, telling the story that the glamour
isn't always you know, like once you reach that, uh,
it's like everything else.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Just doesn't just end there. I mean you still feel it.
It's still something that is that is still following you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah, and even the fact that it's like for like Fritz,
it's in his house now.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
Now he's well got in a movie. He's like it,
you know, let's get it like here, you know, part
of the family. And it finally was, and I was like, okay, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
But also at what costs because now David van Eric
is also not here? I mean we had to imagine
that's part of the reason why Carrie was the one.
And I think they even mentioned in the movie like
Carry was gonna win like sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
Kevin, which I thought was an interesting transition because Kevin
was like super over obviously with the crowd, it's super popular.
But then it's like, well, Carry's got more heat, so
we're gonna go with him. It's like, well, where we
didn't see that, we just have to take the word
for it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
You know, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
You They never showed Carry actually getting over. They showed
David getting over. Yeah, because he could got a promo
where Kevin was terrible at it. He was really bad
at it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
He did Let's do it again. Luckily they weren't live pal.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Luckily they had like twenty takes ready for Kevin. But
David pulled the mic, got the mic out on the
mic at that David got. Uh was he he got?
I think did he beat Harley Racing that mask by
this qualification or something like that. I can't remember what
it was, but he had a match against Harley Race.
After David Van Eric gets in the mic and everybody
likes David, and Kevin's like, oh man, he's good at that.

(01:16:00):
I'm not getting another rematch. That is the end of
me going after the world title. But uh, those are
the wrestling references I had. Any other guys, any other
thoughts you guys may have had about the movie or
anything wrestling related in the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
No, I will shout out, uh, Chavo Guerrera. Oh it's Javo. Yeah.
And I think he did all of the training.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
He like did all them what they call it the choreographer,
the wrestling choreographer, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Yeah, that's not the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
I feel like he's done that too. I feel like
he's done that TV shows.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
The TV show I forget what it's called. Heels, Yeah, yeah,
and Glow he didn't glow, that's the one.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Yeah, and Young Rock too, apparently he helped out with that.
But yeah, that's not good for Javo.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Oh my god, Chavoa.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
We got a pain of punishment from this movie. You
don't need more from Chavo, right, But yes, good for
Javo though, getting getting in Hollywood and doing the wrestling
choreography so they make more wrestling movies. Child are gonna
be kicked up because he's gonna get a choreographer and
all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
So it's like his thing now.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
It's not a bad that's like his career. Like I'm saying,
if you can get a sad card out of it, like,
good for him.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
Heck yeah so, but.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Yes, anything else before we kind of wrap it up here, No,
that's it thing. I think we about covered it Man
from top to bottom.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Uh. The last thing Kevin said the end of the
movie Man kind of hit me as well, where he's
basically like, I'm I'm not a brother anymore. And while
he's watching his two sons, you know, play in the
backyard and it's like their their brothers, and the realization
like he's not a brother anymore, and uh, that was tough.
That was tough, but it kind of I thought it

(01:17:47):
was a good way to end the movie. If you're
telling that story, obviously you know it's not it's not
Kevin winning the world title, and it's like the realization that, uh,
ship families all I got right now, like my wife
and kids, you know, and it wasn't even all his kids.
They had like two daughters before his sons. And but

(01:18:11):
just you know, looking at his son saying I'm not
a brother, I'm not a brother, And that was rough.
That was that was tough to watch, but I thought
it was It made a good ending to the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
And speaking of that family, Kevin and Pam are still
married to this day, four kids, like as you mentioned,
two girls, two boys, thirteen grandchildren.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
So don't they all live on a ranch together or
did he say that was one of his dreams when
Pam asked him on their date and they actually got
a ranch and at least some kids lived with them
for I am not.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Sure but I would not be surprised, but good for them.
Many yeah's a lot of.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Time period to pull through, you know, like come out
the other side, and.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
Now you got thirteen grandkids, you know, like that's that's
like you said, that's a pretty cool way to come
out of the dark time. So shout out to Kevin.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
Maybe the curse was broken, you know, maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
And it started in that kitchen with Dotty von Eric
And I'm not hungry right now, I'm painting. But with that,
let's wrap it up for episode four thirty one. That
is our deep dive into the Iron Claw. If you
haven't watched it yet, we all of us, I think,
will recommend you do. It's on HBO Max right now.
It is h It is HBO Max again, soon to

(01:19:32):
be again.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
So just know I watched I think seventy a seventy
six films in twenty twenty three, seventy six new films.
It was my twenty eighth ranked.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
Film of the twenty eighth What was your number one?
By chance?

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
That was the year of Oppenheimer.

Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
Oh yes, what was your forty seconds?

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
Shut up?

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Forty second is going to be Reality, which stars Sidney Sweeney.

Speaker 3 (01:19:58):
Oh that was a you picked by me. I'm gonna
watch that now.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
You're just gonna watch the forty second movie.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
Yep, just because he said, sweet, that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
I've not seen Oppenheimer yet neither.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
So I need.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
Either.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
I'm shockingly I have not either, not shockingly for you,
shockingly for me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
I have not seen. I have seen two movies recently, though,
I have seen Sinners in the theaters, very good, instant
classic in my opinion, and Final Destination Bloodlines, which I thought,
you know me, with the horror movies, I thought though
that there's gonna be a cash grab. I'm not gonna lie.
I went into a dispecting just here for the kills

(01:20:41):
and the gore and characters that I won't care about,
and darn it, they made you a good movie. I'd
be damn that they actually didn't make a good movie
with characters that I cared about and then saw them
die in horrific fashion. So I would recommend that, especially
in the movies Final Destination blood Lines as well. But uh,
any of the movies you guys have seen that we
could recommend. Since we're on the movie tip right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
How much time you got, just give me one movie?
So I did see the new Mission Impossible movie, and
it's it's kind of a mess, but at least once
you get to the big set pieces, it is some
of the greatest set pieces I've ever seen in cinema,
especially a scene featuring a submarine in particular, that is

(01:21:24):
just mind blowing, Like what an incredible theater experience that was.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
So it's worth it just for that, Nick, I don't
think you know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
I did over the weekend, my World d weekend, I
watched the Pee Wee Herman documentary. Oh yeah, that was
very good, very well done, two parts an hour and
a half each pretty much, and I got I got
through that, and I grew up, you know, watching Pee
Wee and the Christmas specials, like played so many times
in my house grown up, So it was really cool

(01:21:53):
to look back, and you know, Paul Rubins doing an
interview for about forty hours before he passed away and
never finishing you know, the project. Basically, you just they
say at the end, you know, you just kind of
stopped cooperating, and then you hear some of the conversations,
the audio conversations from him and the director at the end.

(01:22:14):
But you know, if you want to dive into Paul
Rubins life. I think it's a good as good as
any documentary you'd find from the man himself and the
people around him. So it was a good watch. So
i'd recommend if you're a pee wee Herman person growing up,
or just interested in the story of Paul Rubins, go
ahead and watch that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Nice nice Go check that out. Sinners Classic a great
movie theater experience as well. Made a bunch of money
at the box, offers Ryan Coogler. Here's nothing but home runs.
Forget bangers. He's hitting it over the wall every time
he makes it. He directs a movie, So I would

(01:22:56):
recommend that as well. Go see sentence. Michael B. Jordan
twice in the movie. You can see a lot of
Michael B. Jordan. It's a twin. He plays his on
twin Nick technology is crazy, but two distinct characters. I'll
give him credit, and like, you're playing the same dude twice.
I don't know Jensen if you can vouch with this, but.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Michael Jordan, that was Yeah, he was really good in
that role. But they had a really pivotal scene where
they had to show them kind of interacting and moving
an object together. So like you had to distinguish that
those are two characters and it was really them, like
passing a cigarette back and forth, dud. Just incredible filmmaking, Uh,
to be able to pull that off the way that
they did, and how smooth it was, because it really you.
You had to make sure that you could you can

(01:23:34):
distinguish them as two different entities to two different people,
and that was the best way to do it. And
it's really hard to pull off, and Ryan Coogler just
pulled it off so easy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
Smoking Stack. Smoking Stack kind.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
Of reminds me of that Full House episode where all
kol Jesse played his own cousin, Stop ros.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
What a weird fact about full That's unreal.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
You lots that and listen Full Houses on HBO Max.
But you watched that episode and the I'll guarantee you
I haven't seen Sinners yet, but you'll you'll watch that
and be like, oh, this is terrible. I don't see
literally like the green screen behind you know, like oh yeah.
When they're on the screen at the same time, it's

(01:24:19):
like the funniest thing. When they're trying to just react
to each other. Oh man, it cracks me up.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Centers they talk to each other Michael Jordan talks to
each other, talks him stuff I should say as smoke
and stack in this movie. Uh, and it's seemed to
have to watch they hug each other like it's it's pretty,
it's pretty seamless. How they how they pulled it off.
So yeah, big undertaking in that movie. Great movie, great writing.
Honestly super funny at times, like the part where they

(01:24:49):
do the rive dancing. I was howl on the movie.
Theude I'm sorry, but good and oh also some it's
scary at times, so go check it out.

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
By the way, that Full House episode what is called
Kissing Cousins Season seven, episode eighteen, A case.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
That's good to know, Season seven, episode eighteen's.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Cousins Stavros comes to visit and takes advantage of the
whole family.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
What what kind of show is this? Vers It's called
Kissing Cousins and he takes advantage of the whole family.
I don't know if I want to watch that show.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Watch that episode seals money, he's a he's a cheap skit.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Oh, he's a con man. He is Okay, all right,
I'll take your word for it. But let's wrap it
up for episode four, thirty one. John. If you got
anything you want to plug right now, plug away please.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
You could just follow me at Jay Jansen thirty four.
And if you want more of my movie reviews, you
can just follow me at Jay Jansen thirty four on
the Lovely Letterboxed website, the best social media platform on
planet Earth.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
All right, go check him out, uh Nick plug away please?

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
All right? You can follow us at Shooters Radio on
Twitter checks and we're also on Blue Sky at shooters Radio, threads,
Instagram at shooters Radio and Facebook, Facebook dot com slash
Shooters Radio. You can check me out at underscore pracone
on Twitter and uh TikTok at pocone on Blue Sky
and at peconne Nick on threads. Hey Phillies one do

(01:26:20):
Nothing hooray, and you could also follow me follow this podcast.
Listen to this podcast on foxphl Gambler dot com just
click on the podcast tab. We have our wrestling roundtable
there and also Street Shitters Wrestling podcasts. You can check
us out there as well.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
I am at von M Johnson on x you can
find me day. You can also find me on Blue
Sky at Vaughn Johnson. I got my actual name as
my handle there now that's great. Also on Instagram at
Vaughan Johnson one sixty six. You can check us out
on Patreon, Patreon dot com slash Shooters Radio where you
can request a future deep dive and then when you
request it, we will fulfill it and then you can

(01:26:57):
make a cameo on the show that we're diving deep into.
We just did it on episode four thirty with Judgment
Day two thousand and one, and we would like to
do it again in the future. So again Patreon dot
com slash Shooters Radio again. Doesn't have to be a
wrestling pay per view like Judgment Day two thousand and one.
It can be a movie like The Iron Claw or
Suburban Commando. We're still waiting to do that one. We

(01:27:19):
still wait to do See No Evil. So we got
those in the pipeline. Set that one in a while,
I'm throwing it back out there. And then Santa's Sleigh
we're gonna do you look at that with Jason Finelli.
Sorry Jason, We're gonna do the much worse movie between us.
So Santa's Sleigh is on the list as well, So

(01:27:40):
if you want us to do that sooner than later.
Patreon dot Com Slash Shooters Radio, But until next time
for John Jansen and nippecone, I am Vaughn Johnson. Thanks
for listening to episode four thirty one of The Straight
Shooters and we'll catch you all again next week. Hey Clavage,
wake up the show on Oh Yeah Jigi

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