CLASSIC EPISODE: WWF In Your House: Mind Games (Sept. '96) Deep Dive

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Let's go back to mind games from September of nineteen
ninety six. Nick, You ready to deep dive into mind games?
You know I am. Let's do it. The face of fear,
the mind of madness.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Behold the horror.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
That may soon be champion if I don't, but I
don't longer I have control ward from my mind.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'll pray that this man can stop the insanity. Pray
for it if he.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
Doesn't have a nice day.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
In the theater of the mind.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
The stage can be treacherous.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Man, somebody thought it?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
One is ethereal the other bison one? Where's the mask
of deception? He exposes the hidden fears in prison.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Within his opponent.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Battered egos are his play There like this bat fears
no one.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Of death.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
With the stench of betrayal still hanging in the air,
the mastermind of its origin may be within his grasp.
Tonight one will bow when the final curtain falls. If
the eyes are the window to the soul, what horror
is a lot to the basement of this man's tortured mind?
Is his sanity trapped in a maze of madness? Or

(01:48):
is he a willing soldier in the realm of darkness
in the hope. A champion whose body is viril, whose
will is unmatched in his usual battlefield. He has achieved
the highest of honymous. But when war begins in the psyche,
this is so long? Why did w W do this
to us?

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Which will survive? The champion?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Continue to I'm waiting forward to end bro awaken in
this man's nightmare?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
How many times you're talking about that? Amen? Those sounds
of fireworks, ladies and gentlemen, just so you know.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Hor stage center, That's why I wanted to keep this
sad in your house?

Speaker 5 (02:42):
Fine games, hell, everyone, punch the man here, hold on
with mister Pup along with Jim Ross, and we're walcome
to see some mind games here time.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Okay, yep, okay, that video package was extra long? Did
Quentin Tin you know right.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
That it was like helf as long as its in
your house itself?

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Wait? What the hell? Who did y'all get to write
that one? That one is extra extra long? They got
to be more concise than that. That's just silly. This
is weird. I was waiting for it to end like
three times, and this is it. No, still talking about
that man's nightmare? Okay, okay, but WWF in your House

(03:28):
ten mind Games took place here in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on
September twenty sixth, twenty second, nineteen ninety six. As you
heard in vincmick Man's intro. It took place at the
Core State Center as it was known back then when
it first opened up. It was the building opened up
in nineteen ninety six. This was the first wrestling event

(03:51):
in the venue. Okay. It is now known, of course
as the Wells Fargo Center, and it is hosted in
his time, even though it's his names like four times
and went from the First to your First Union Center,
to the Waikovia Center and now the Wells Fargo Center.
It hosted a whole lots of wrestling shows, including a

(04:13):
WrestleMania WrestleMania fifteen and nineteen ninety nine. But it hosted
a whole lot more pay per views than that too, Okay,
which I will touch on in a bit. But the
ribbon cutting for the Core State Center took place on
August thirty first, nineteen ninety six. According to the Wells
Fargo Senate website, its first official event took place ten
days later, as Team USA took on Team Canada in

(04:37):
the first round of the World Cup of Hockey. Did
you know that, Nick? Uh?

Speaker 4 (04:40):
No, Maybe I did, but no, no, I thought that.
I always thought this was the first like event that
took place.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Nope, just the race wrestling event. But according to you,
it was the first one that you knew of. So
it's true. That's all you do. It's so funny.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Every time they went into a new arena that, like
Vince said on commentary, they would always call it the
brand spanking new. They did that for the United Center
in SummerSlam. I think it was ninety four, right, the
brand spanking new United Center.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
They always was built for the this was up wasn't
up before for the first three titles of the Bulls,
So ninety four sounds right.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, that was It made me feel special because I
knew I was close to Philly, so but I never
wanted to go, like, I didn't feel, you know, like
a desire to go. And it was the beginning of
my school year or two. It would have been in
sixth grade, so.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
You were focused. Yeah, cool time, that's right. I do
homework tonight, right, But I also watched I can't play
mind games, I know, I gotta I gotta focus right
on school, right. The building has hosted a slew of
other sporting events besides, I just hosted the NBA Finals,
a Stanley Cup Final. Both teams of ours lost in
each of those events. I would know the later on.

(05:57):
But it's crazy that the Flyers and the Sixers have
not the championship in that building. And it's been twenty
six years. Yep, that one championship. But it's also hosting
an NBA All Star Game, but only once somehow strangely
back in two thousand and two, and that was the
only time it was. I thought it was a big
hit here. I remember going to the jam session thing

(06:19):
they had at the Convention Center that was dope, and
I feel like the Allstar Game was like, did well here?
Aya was pretty much the reason why we got it,
I was assumed, But like, why why didn't it come back?
Like what hasn't been been back? Did?

Speaker 4 (06:32):
Was it like set to be that arena before they
made before like two thousand and one finals run Like
I don't.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
I don't honestly how Even before two thousand and one, though,
Iverson was like the biggest, one of the biggest stars
in basketball. Even before the Finals run, so you know,
having it here because of him made sense. But like
I feel like LA's had it like four times since
two thousand and two. What man, I don't know. I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
And it's not like it's the credit the building, you know,
like they literally renovated every year.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Right, So I was gonna touch on that as well.
But we got them also at the building, Men's and
women's into double tournament games, the X Games in two
thousand and one and X Games, I do that was
a pretty fun time. They were skateboard down City Hall
and stuff like that. That was wild stuff. Twenty fourteen,
Frozen four okay, the Hockey National Championship, and of course

(07:27):
a slew of musical acts. But when it comes to
wrestling again, dozens of episodes of Raw and SmackDown. According
to and according to Pro Wrestling Wiki, the building has
hosted thirteen WWE pay per views to date. Wow Yeah,
thirteen to date. No other wrestling promotion has ever run

(07:51):
the Wells Fargo Center besides WWE. How about that WSW
when it came to Philly back in the day when
this building was existed in the late nineties, WSW did
run Philly, but they did not run the Course Center.
They ran the Spectrum, So that answer is my question.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
I think I had a few of like what we
did a deep dive before in WCW. I couldn't remember
whether it was the Spectrum or you know, the Wells
Fargo Center. So I guess that answers my question. I
must have gone to the Spectrum.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, they did not run I mean, I can look
it up again, but like, I'm pretty sure that was
not the case for WCW, at least where I looked.
They didn't have any WCW shows listed. This is the
first show obviously in nineteen ninety six, and then the
next one was apparently Wrestlmania fifteen. They didn't come back

(08:42):
until ninety nine, or at least for a pay per view.
At least for a pay per view, I should say,
But yeah, for TV tapings all through ninety eight through
ninety nine, all WWF shows, and then of course two thousand,
two thousand and one, ws W is gone, so there's that.

(09:05):
But yeah, mind Games again was the first show ever
in this building, and of course second was WrestleMania. These
far as pay per views, WrestleMania was the second, but
the next pay per view were not really the next
one because it got The Extreme Rules coming later this
year at the Wells Farger Center. That'd be the fourteenth
WW pay per view in that building. But of course

(09:27):
we got WrestleMania coming to Philadelphia in twenty twenty four,
WrestleMania forty that will not be at the Willis Farga Center.
That will be at Lincoln Financial Field. And I know
that might have come as a surprise for some people
when it was announced, like, oh, oh, it's going to
be at the football Stadium in Philly, like, but yeah,
they were not going to ever consider putting it in

(09:49):
the arena. If they put it in the stadium up
in New Jersey, you knew Philly was gonna be on
the list at some point in the future. I didn't
think it would take ten twelve years, but here we are.
But that was always going to be the case, especially
since they've been putting in bids for the event in
the last let's say seven eight years.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
Oh yeah, I know both of us haven reaching out
many times to uh see the status, I guess of
those and we would get the same exact statement back time.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Right, yeah, long ago when I was covering the wrestling
for the inquiry day to day. But the Walls Fargo
Center is in the plans. Obviously, it will host the
televised shows like Raw and SmackDown n XT, but not
WrestleMania that's going to be in the stadium, but the
other pay per views that the Walls Fargus Center has hosted.

(10:44):
You ready for this? Oh yeah, we got go ahead.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
I was good name, but I don't want to stay
here that long.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, we got Yeah, I didn't. Which it's twelve other
shows here and it ranged from twenty years obviously, so
we got unforgiven. In two thousand, of course, that was
Steve Awson's return, right when he came back from the
neck injury. Did not realize that. Yeah, that was in Philly.

(11:14):
The two thousand and four Royal Rumble there, remember that one.
That was when Crispin Wah unfortunately won the World Rumble.
Say his name again? Nope, exactly? Uh. The Survivor Series
in two thousand and six, Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah,

(11:34):
that's when I think see him. Punk Dix is on
the same team with I think the Hardy Boys too. Yeah,
that was a big one Knight of Champions in two
thousand and nine. I think Jeff Hardy was the champion
around this time, one of the champions. I's just say
Money in the Bank in twenty thirteen. I was there
for that. The biggest match on that show was, of

(11:56):
course the money Money in the Bank match. I think
Punk was actually one next show, that's when Paul Haymon
turned on Punk.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
Yes, I was there, Yep, that's what that was. I
was in the background when Randy Orton held the briefcase up.
I see me in the background on my phone posting
a video to Vine. Oh line was huge. I think
I posted five or six videos of that match.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Vine when Randy Orton won Money in the Bank. And
there was a great match in the pre show with
three members of the Bloodline and Seth Rollins. It was
Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins going against the USOS for
the tag titles I think on the pre show, and
it was it tore the house down and revitalized the
USSOS and here they are today as one of the

(12:40):
greatest tag teams in wrestling history. How about that? How
about that? The next show, though, was the War Rumble
in twenty fifteen. Also there for that. That was one
of the worst nights in history and the history of
the building as far as wrestling is concerned, at least

(13:03):
the probably the worst sporting happenings there. But for as wrestling,
twenty fifteen War Rumble was a dark day and history
of the Willis Park it really is.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
You had Lesnard Rollins Sen a triple threat, right, which great,
We loved him. We're like, oh, like's gonna win the
Roar Rubble. It was gonna be a great night, and
they yeah, exactly, we fell fell hard man.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
That was rough equally as rough, well not quite as equally,
but nearly The next one Battleground in twenty seventeen, Oh,
I love that.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
One has to put Jabi prison match right, Jobi prison
Kylie Returned God and then somehow a not great match
between Kevin Owens and a j Styles Like what do
you yeah? I do remember that. People were like, ugh
because even before I think durd of WrestleMania season, they
had a match on Raw earlier that year and it

(13:56):
was like sponsored I remember they like sponsored it and
it might have been in Philly because there was a
WrestleMania you know. Oh, there was a lead up to
WrestleMania one of the Rales were in Philly. I remember
we went to it, uh, I mean that match was great,
so yeah, I remember. I remember that match on battle
Ground being like, okay, that's us.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, that wasn't great. Also there for this, unfortunately,
so I got to see the Punjabi Prison in person.
Not a great watch from floor seats. And I'm not
trying to brag about this. This is the seats I got,
but I was closer.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
It was even worse for me. We were like, well,
two or three rows apart, and.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, it was not great. That's probably why we got
floor seats. Nobody wanted to be there and get those
tickets away.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
They were trying to move back and I was like, oh,
it's crowded back there.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Punjabi Prison not on not good on television, even worse
in person. Somehow, the next one after that made up
for Battleground at least. It was NXT takeover Phillyiladelphia early
twenty eighteen. Also there for that, I wasn't technically I
guess a pay per view you know, WW network special,

(15:08):
but damn the best match I've probably ever seen in person.
Andrade versus Gargano incredible, incredible.

Speaker 4 (15:16):
I remember so we went to something to wrestle show afterwards,
and so I went to Tony Lukes to grab like
a cheese steak, and I waited for the takeover to
be over because I was going to pick you up
and we were going to head over to the ECW Arena.
And I was sitting in my car watching it on
my phone and during the main event, like it crapped out,

(15:37):
like I couldn't see the ending. So I remember being pissed.
I think I asked you, like what happened or something,
because I kept trying to log back on and I guess,
my dad, it was too messy and it was what
twenty eighteen?

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Is that what it was? So yeah, early twenty eighteen.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
Yeah, I guess it wasn't it should have been dealt
with then, but yeah, that sucks. I didn't get to
see even a live like on a on a screen.
I had to go watch the replay, damn. And you're like,
get in my car, like that was amazing.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
It was incredible. You should have saw it. It was
fireworks and everything. So yeah, that was next. But the
next night, of course, was or Rumble in twenty eighteen.
Was not there for that. We did we did do
a fun show at Lorraine's Bar with the good folks
that ring Russ Radio. Shout out to Donny Wood and

(16:30):
the boys over there. We might do another live show
in the future, to keep an eye out for that
when things details might be. It's still forthcoming, still coming,
I should say to come. I don't know how to
talk anymore. But wait, wait, I'm coming hard. Oh god, yeah,
I deserve that one. It's coming hard. Deserved that one.

(16:52):
But we're rumbling. Twenty eighteen I think two great winners,
right with Shinske and Oscar that came out and they
were like, whoa, this is dope, right, and not much
half of that. It was the right.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
It was great booking, but uh, you know, the after
math was not great.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Wrestle Ania that year was a complete dud. About twenty
eighteen Wrestlming. That's one I'm never going back to watch,
not even to watch how bad it is. It's just
the most midst of mid shows. All right, Sorry to
all the talent he worked that night, but it just
didn't do it for me, right, But we move on
the next pay per view here in Philly. Extreme Rules

(17:32):
twenty nineteen also not there for this. I don't even
remember this show. Was this when Undertaker came back or something? Yeah,
Roman reigns. Okay, that's the show. It's funny.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
The only reason I remember that is because a kid
I worked with it last year was at that show
because he was a big WW fan and he was
telling me about it, and I was like, oh, yeah,
the Undertaker was there, Like I wouldn't have known otherwise
unless he mentioned it. So I was there actually live,
but it was very forgettable.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I'd imagine. Yeah, that wasn't who cared?

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Couldn't tell you the main event, couldn't tell you the
first match.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Apparently the main event was Brock beating Seth with the
title for the Universal title, but that was after Brock,
not Brock, Becky and Seth had a tag team match
against Van Corben and Lacy Evans. And this is when
Seth and Becky were champions on Raw. They were both
the champs.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
How did I not remember that? I thought I would
remember the Brock thing, But that's how bad Vin's made
w at the time.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, Roman reigns and Undertilo versus Shane McMahon and Drew McIntyre.
What are we doing here? Woh? So the quality you
can see the quality of these shows have dipped dramatically
outside of NXT how about that. Of course, the most
recent pay per view that was here was the Elimination
Chamber in twenty twenty, which happened right before the shutdown,

(19:03):
was very much so a super spreader event that we
didn't know was super spreader. We didn't even know what
that term was obviously, or at least hadn't heard it
at this point, and people it was. The place was packed.
We were all there. I didn't walk away six somehow,
but I was there for that show. I just mentioned
that too. Was there for that. I took my daughter

(19:23):
to see it. That was at her, believe, her second
wrestling show. So yeah, me, me and my little girl
went up there and watched that show and watched our
first both of our first. Elimination Chamber has never been
to the Elimination Chamber before. I still don't remember much
from that show, even though I was there. Somebody these
pay per views be forgettable, bro, it's rough. So Extreme

(19:47):
Rules in October will be the fourteenth ww pay per
view in the Wills Ferguson, and it just what happens
to be next on the schedule.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
And it just so happens Paul and their ads that
they were running on TV. Paul Hayman is the voiceo guy.
How about that?

Speaker 1 (20:04):
About that? That's that's your coincidence.

Speaker 5 (20:08):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Still with the stupid ass logo. I hate the logo. Yeah,
I hate the logo. The blue and yellow. What are
we doing? Like power Rangers? What's going on here?

Speaker 4 (20:16):
And then it's all bright and colorful like.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Something like that. A little bit more about the Wells
Fargo Center, Uh, it has gone like as you mentioned earlier, Nick,
that has gone a whole lot of renovations over the years,
especially in the last like two or three years. Like
the concourses are different, they look nicer. But they're also
adding like some high end restaurants in there with some

(20:43):
big name chefs like Jose Garsis and stuff like that.
So like they're doing some unique things in the Wells
Fargo Center. But I don't know they're gonna have the
Sixers there for too much longer. That's the thing. That's
if you haven't been following the local news here in Philadelphia,
if you live elsewhere, Uh, the six have put out
a proposal to move out of the West Farco Center
and not really just move out, but build a new

(21:05):
arena in downtown Philly because the Sixers are technically a tenant.
The Flyers run that building. Uh, and I don't think
the Sixers want to do that much longer. So they're
going to try to build their own building because I
know some people probably like, why the hell wuld they
building when they already playing one and they renovated. Yeah,
but it's not theirs. Okay, so I don't know what

(21:26):
the split is with concessions and tickets and all that stuff,
but it ain't their building.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
So they've definitely gotten more richer over the years. With
their current run, even though they have to get out
of the second round, they're a lot better than the
at least the Flyers.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Look. Yeah, I don't know, but look, I don't know
how they split that divvy up that pie don't do
not know. However, the Sixers have wanted out for a
while and this latest proposal looks solid, like like, look,
it looks like it could happen potentially. That's what I
mean by solid. I'm not saying it's a great proposal.
I'm just saying it looks like it could happen, but

(22:02):
it is. It has been met with resistance, specifically from
the folks in Chinatown, who also resisted a potential Philly
stadium that could have been there. Back in the early
two thousand Citizens Bank Park was being built. The first
place they wanted to put that, or at least proposed,
was Chinatown, and they said, nah, don't do that. And
now you see where they're at now in South Philadelphia. Well,

(22:25):
the Sixers are probably pretty much they're trying to be
in the same neighborhood. So we'll see how that goes.
But of course it's got to be a lot more
than justin the arena, right, It's got to be shopping's
got to be restaurants, maybe even some some apartment units.
You just it's got to be multifaceted facilities. So time
will tell will happen there. But that's I think the

(22:49):
plan is for like twenty thirty something like that, twenty
thirty one, yeah, yeah, So so it's a long time
between now and then to see what happens with that
and how things may shake out. But as you heard there,
we heard the opening video package from Mind Games. We
heard miss McMahon, he is on the call alongside Jim

(23:09):
Ross and Mister Perfect, a rarely seen.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
Trio mister Perfect Oh boy, oh boy, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yo go zoom nah oh boy. WrestleMania ten mister Cool
from A Land to g A.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Luke got like yeah l E g A or something
like that. Luca real bad, real bad stuff there. But
we opened the show with a match. Yeah, it's a
it's Justin Hawk Bradshaw in his match. It's his specialty match.

(23:59):
He's never lost a crib be a strap match, according
to the announcers. Okay, I don't know that for certain.
That did not do my research on the subject. Sorry.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Well, he's at least one to oh INWF at this
point because he beat Austin earlier this year, so.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
So I guess that counts. It's undefeated, right, So yeah,
the Browns have lost like until this week, until Week one,
had lost like twenty consecutive season opener. It was like
some ridiculous number. So they just haven't been undefeated ever
for like a decade straight until this past Sunday where

(24:38):
they finally won the game and they one and oh
undefeated one wow. But yeah, it was like it's been
a long street. Even the year they went to the playoffs.
They lost the season opener. They just start off the
season with an L all the time, wild stuff wild stuff. Uh.

(25:01):
And Savio Vega he don't ware about that though. He's undefeated.
And Kiribi Strat matches okay, And he talked to he
did a pre match promo. He talked about Justin Hawk
Bradshaw and then he started speaking his native language, and
I'm sure he cussed Bradshaw all the way out and
that okay, there's no telling where he would foul things
he said about Bradshaw when he started speaking a native language,

(25:23):
and it looked like he'm in business, so I'm sure
it was just all kinds of cuss words.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
So he had a match at the Free for All
before this, uh yeah, which is wild. So I forget
how that one ended up. So I don't know if
this was planned like a you know, when they would
do like their pay per view previews, And I don't
know if this was thrown together because of the Free

(25:51):
for All or what. But Sabia Vega's a hard worker.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, two matches in a row the road, right, because
I'm sure that was the main event of the Free
for All.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Yeah, well, they only have one show back then it
was only a half hour.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
So yeah, that was definitely it. That was the free
match you got for tonight. The TV got anything else,
anything else, you gotta payperwork.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
Exactly top tight and girl, man, he's like, get your
ass to the phone and order this ship.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Call you like forcefully telling people, get your lazy asses up,
get your broke cass. I've spent more, some more money here,
go to the capable providers. Give him your last dollar
to order this show. Mind games to be his knees.
You gotta spend all.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
Your money the best two hours. Then you'll spend tonight.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Don't spend you twenty five dollars with it? What is
your fourteen dollars?

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Maybe at this point it was two hours, so yeah,
probably still fourteen or twenty.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah. So was Harvey Whiopleman the referee in this match?

Speaker 4 (27:03):
I believe so he was definitely a referee on this night.
And I do remember hearing JR call him by his name,
whereas literally right after that Vincent Man was saying the
official he did not like say Harvey Whippleman. He didn't

(27:24):
acknowledge j R. Saying his name. He just went the official.
And again that's more language stuff that we see with
Vincent Man of like, we just don't understand because there's
so many changes and there's no reason to not call
the official by his name, especially because we as viewers
know it's Harvey Whippleman even if Jr.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Didn't say it. So, but also every other sport tells
the viewer right who the referees are. I don't care
what sport it is. We don't have to. So just
boxing or MMA, which does say you know this officiated
night by so and so? Football does it? They show
a grass fix of eight six officials that's on the field,

(28:04):
not just not one, there's a whole bunch, and they
show the graphic of who the people when, the when
the first time they throw a flag and the referee
has to talk to the fans. They put a little
kyri on up Sean Hockey League Jerome Boulger, I know
these referees by name because they announced them. I don't
think the NFL loses any money because people know who
the referees are. You know, I still know that Gene's

(28:26):
territor announced the Super He refereed to the Super Bowl
for the Eagle Super Bowl, Super Bowl fifty two because
obviously it's a memorable day. But like Jean's territor. Now
he's on TV doing games for what's the CBS, I
think it is. And he does college basketball too. I
didn't know he's a college basketball referee too. Shout out
to Geen's territor. But baseball, you know who the umps are.

(28:49):
Everybody hats Joe West. Yeah, everybody hates Joe Wes.

Speaker 4 (28:53):
Right, me and Ron fight something, right, you hate that?

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah? Right? Then you got NBA again. You Steve Javi
was the reference. Oh man, Steve Javi's strict referee. Man,
there's another guy, bad guy. A couple of ball guys
who were like, you knew these referees. You saw them
all the time, especially for bigger games. They would say
who they were. There's only three referees in from the

(29:20):
court for basketball, hockey they do the same thing. Was
it still like three referees in hockey? You only got
one referee? You can't say his name? Yeah, one, pretty
supposed like six in football. I can't remember the exact number.
I probably should. I know everything else, but I don't
know how many referees on the damn field. I think
this is a.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
Peak in Devince's mind where he thinks his audience is
too stupid to remember more than one or two names. Uh,
perhaps why he ate stag teams, but perhaps is disdaining
for referee names that he just doesn't want to do
it and it's not okay, Like his audience is smart,

(30:03):
smarter than that, and to treat them like that, which
he has been for thirty plus s years, whatever the
hell has been. It just irritates me every single time
I'm reminded about one of his quirks and how people
just describe them. Oh, it's a quirk. It's like, no,
it's a freaking stupid thing to do and treat your
audience that way, thinking that if you give them more names,

(30:25):
they're gonna get confused. Like, get the hell out of
here with that crap. Everybody knows it's Harvey Whipam and
John Cone, Tim White, Earl Hebner, like we know this, Yes,
we know this. It's Dave he It doesn't Dave Hebner.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
It doesn't make it any less our ability to keep
track of people that are on the screen. So the
hell ever appetism man and is thinking about that it
just irritates me. That just gets so annoyed, like my
audience is to.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Okay just cause these.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Damn referee names, and I'm getting agitated.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Literally the huff about this. Let's move on, so you
don't get it more agitated about these damn referees.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Well, no, it's not the referees. It'ssic man, no vinsic man.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I'm sorry. Uh, well, can go to hell. So okay.
Bradshaw beat the hell out of Savio Vegan in the
beginning of the match. Didn't even let him get in
the strap born you know, Pauls. But I heard that

(31:38):
after I said it.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
So Bradshaw said, coming hard.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Oh my god, this show has got more and more
X rated by the week. Extreme Rules is coming up.
Man speaking of extreme and speaking of X rated, the
fans in Philadelphia, the chan e c W during the
match and then right on Q Sam man about of nowhere,
it spits on Savio Vegas. I'm assuming it was spear

(32:05):
he spit on it. Yes, I'm assuming as well it
wasn't water spit beer on him while sitting next to
Tommy Dreamer and they're just hanging out and Vince clearly
in kahoots with this quote unquote local promotion, local promotion here,
trying to make a name for them else. Hope they
enjoy that fifteen minutes. What the hell down in hindsight, like,
how the hell do we fall for that? In nineteen

(32:25):
ninety six, I don't damn well fell for it.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
But it was so quick, and I don't remember, you know,
I watched it alive. Maybe I missed it, but I
remember seeing them because I watched ECW a little bit,
because I had really discovered it earlier that year, Like
I said, when Shane Douglas came back early ninety six

(32:49):
started watching it. So I wasn't like a huge ECW guy.
I wasn't watching it like every single week, but I
knew of it, so I.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Just didn't care.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
Really, I was like, oh, like, this is stupid, like
a ten year old kid, did not care.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Did not care. Well, the fans didn't seem to care
that much. I mean, I don't know. They got a
little bit of a pop, I guess, but Sadman and
Dreamer are scored it out promptly by security. You know,
it's kind of silly to watch in a hindsight. Spies
who with events going on trying to make a name
for themselves like it's nothing. But I'm sure for nineteen
ninety six, this was a very interesting gangle for people

(33:30):
to watch, and I'm sure the message boards were buzzing
after that, because I'm sure there's some people that was
literally their first exposure to ECW, like because east W
wasn't quite everywhere like in the know kind of to
know what EASTW was. If you weren't able to watch it,
you either a news let the subscriber or something like that,
or tape trader. So if you're a casual viewer and

(33:52):
you're from Arizona and you watch WW pay per view,
your first knowledge of ECW could have been Sandman spinning
on Savio Vega. So there's that. Well, so you were.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
Talking about the way you were talking about it's the
way vincentive. This is so like ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
If we have an opportunity, we're going we're right Chester, Obama.

Speaker 6 (34:23):
There is a there's a local wrestling growth here in
Philadelphia and obviously.

Speaker 5 (34:29):
Trying to make a name for themselves here at the
expense of the World Rustling.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Federation, and we will not shoot this ugly incident. That's
occurring that.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
Meanwhile, Savio Vega and Justin o cratchall are ignoring what's.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Going on outside the ring as well, they shout. So
I'm hoping to do a lot of fans. Look, they're
fifteen minutes of fame. He said, We're not gonna shoot it,
but I'm going to acknowledge it exactly.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
It's like you keep talking about it and I can't
see it. I want to see, obviously want to no
more guys.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
They didn't look like wrestlers. They look like normal people.
You didn't have to say. The local promotion out of
Philadelphia kind of gave it away a little bit in
the hindsight, obviously hindsight. But I'm again, I'm sure there
was somebody out in Michigan who didn't get E c W,
didn't know about it, watching this. Who the hell is

(35:23):
that drunk guy in the front row spitting on South
yr Vega. You know what I'm saying. Like I said,
I'm sure the message boards, I'm sure they were buzzed
after that. What does this mean? What's going on? Oh
my god? Saying man going to be the Tommy Dreamer
versus Steve Austin, Go, can we do it? Can it happen?

(35:49):
I don't know, So there's that. No it didn't.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Oh okay, no, I mean him got him him? This
is uh what September ninety sixth So the end was
just getting stronger, especially when Brgil came and I do
what I think he could have shifted the balance earlier.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Look, I'm moving on to s that've been great. Savio
Vega wins this match in the most used finish in
the strap match bor rope match history, which is when
the bad guy hits all the turn buckles but the
good guy hits them all behind him. The bad guy

(36:39):
just has no clue. The bad guy just never turns
around and sees this or here's that second pat on
the turn buckle because they don't unlike they just like
quietly like put the finger on. They go bam, so
everybody can see it. You want everybody to see in
the arena. They're also hitting the turn buckles, so they
can't go on a turn buckle. They got to really
put their hand up and let everybody see it. Despite that,

(37:04):
despite all the evidence being there that Bradshaw is being followed, essentially,
he still doesn't notice. He still doesn't notice. And right
before he hit that fourth and final one. Savio Vegas
are resisting, and then Bradshaw yanked Savio Vega. I'm gonna

(37:29):
move on from that as well. He inadvertently pulled Savio
Vega into the fourth turn buckle, helping Savio Vega win
and remain undefeated in the Caribbean Strap Match. All hell,
saf Yo Vega in the Caribbean Strap Match, the greatest,

(37:50):
the Caribbean Strap Match, go never lost. Okay, that's the
LaVar ball for you out there. We added to this,
yeah balls sound bites, all right, big ball of brand.
We will responds by big baller brand. Yeah people that's

(38:13):
still out here, like some big ball of brands if
they gave them to us or something like that. You know, yeah, yeah,
we move on. We get a video package of Jim
Jim Cornett clowning Hosey Litherio before their match, before the

(38:34):
before their match, they get a video package. They get
a whole video package. It is Jim Cornett versus Jose Lataria.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
What we'll be ready to say, Nick No, just laughing
because we get I mean, Jim Cornett's Jim Cornett or whatever,
the fact that they made this into a match and
it brings me back to like Vince Man in ninety
six WF you get the nWo gaining huge steam in WCW,

(39:07):
and in September when you have Shawn Michaels going against
Mick Foley in your main event, you have Jose Lethario
and Jim Cornett on the same CARDI and it lasted
less than a minute, but still you have Jose Lethario
and Jim Cornett on your main pay per view card.
I couldn't. I totally forgot this happened.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
By the way.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
The only thing I remember about it was during Cornett's
entrance when Raiser and Diesel we're back backstage kicking the
shit out of Savio, and that's I remember not being
able to wait until I was done recording this pay
per view so I could go back and watch Razor

(39:52):
and Diesel because that, you know, obviously, back then I'm
ten years old, I'm like, oh my god, like how
they just left WCW to come back as Razor and Diesel,
Like that's so crazy, you know, ten year old gullible me.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
But that's the best part of this, I guess. Yeah.
Because the match itself, there wasn't much too it, Hos
of Lithario beats up on Jim Cornet rather swiftly to
win the match. But but there are some things to
touch on here. Number one, Hose of Lithario, How about him?

(40:28):
He had a career, he did, which is why is
in his match. Most people know Holds of Lithario as
just a guy who hung out with Shawn Michaels nineteen
ninety six. Okay, he's his manager and trainer doing Shawn
Michaels' baby phase un in nineteen ninety six. But he
was much more than that, because he had his own
stellar career. Okay. He was born guadaloupe Robletto. I hope

(40:49):
I said that right on December twelfth, nineteen thirty four,
and rose to prominence in wrestling via the National Wrestling Alliance.
He wrestled through the nineteen fiftiesteen seventies into the eighties
as well, and won a slew of titles for Big
Time Wrestling in San Francisco and of course Championship Wrestling
from Florida. So yeah, he had a career into the

(41:10):
nineties too. Well for this one match, okay, and well,
he had a couple before he had won before this
as well, but yeah, a couple before this, that's to say.
But he died, of course, in November of twenty eighteen
at the age of eighty three. So rest in peace

(41:31):
to the host of Lothario, Y piece more than just Shawn
Michaels's friend. In nineteen ninety six, he had his own
career as well, but by the time of this match,
he was a young and spry sixty two years old.
And yeah, this match goes by very quickly, but that
didn't stop Jim Ross was getting in all the jokes

(41:54):
and roasting the hell out of Jim Cornett and his attire.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Okay, I mean yeah, that attire was hilarious.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
That was wild. It was like, as he's coming out, yeah,
like what was what was it? Okay, what a bizarre
outfit that was. That was the biggest controversial thing of
this match to me was that outfit. But Jim Ross
goes looks like he's wearing a pair of Yogas units tights.

(42:24):
Good lord, he baby was. Jim Ross also said he
looked like a giant Twinkie flopping around while he was
getting his ass whooped. Bajos of Lothario said his outfit
was sponsored by Hostess. Good lord, okay, Hostess is a

(42:45):
company that makes twinkies. Mister Perfect even got in on it.
It was like a cipher going on because he said
Cordinet looked like the michelin Man man. In forty five seconds,
he got roasted that much. Well, actually fifty six seconds,
I'm sorry. According to Wikipedia, it was fifty six seconds.

(43:08):
They got all them jokes in it in a minute
and changed because of course he got count the entrance right.
So with that match, that match fifty six seconds against
Jim Cornett and a red spandex suit was holse of
Lithurio's last match of his legendary career. That was it. Uh,

(43:31):
he had he had been wrestling Cornett and others on
you know house shows, and I think he had a
match on the raw before this, but before those run
run of matches. His last match was nineteen eighty five,
so he was very retired by this point. He just
came back for a couple of matches, got his you
know wits a bottom again, had the match with Cornett

(43:52):
and got up out of there.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
So this storyline was so important that theydiated a pay
per view blow off in less than a minute I
just I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
I don't get it neither. But we're still talking about
it twenty six years later.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
I guess that's because we're talking about the whole event.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
That we just have a Cornet Lothario episode. Do dive
into that.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
Live commentary right in less than a minute or episode
will be like five minutes.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Right, the whole episode twelve minutes because we did a
fifty six second match. So but we move on, well again,
Oh go ahead.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Well let's uh. I have a clip of when Razor
and Diesel beat in Savio's ass door and Cornett Cornett's entrance,
and this was when Jim Ross had teased that Razor
and Diesel will be in Philly at the event, but
that he was going to unveil them on Monday night
on Raw the next night.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
Oh man, camera, what's going on back there?

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Couping?

Speaker 6 (45:05):
What?

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Let's Phraser Diesel down there? That's Phraser Diesel and the
isbel Vega Raiser Diesel. Apparently I'm just done an hour?

Speaker 5 (45:17):
Say Mega, Jersey, j corn why come you love you
Fry Crown? And I can't believe what we jumps up
Jim Rob you said you were gonna deliver Braizer and
Diesel live tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
On Run Day Night.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
I also sat a line where are yesterday?

Speaker 1 (45:39):
That could be right here tonight And I hate to
be like Jerry Lower, but they say I told you so,
I told you so. No, or Jim, I know you
did not say so. You didn't tell us nothing, all right.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
I remember this was the biggest night part of my night,
Razor will come back. I was like, oh my god.
I remember seeing the far away thing and I was like,
come on, and then like them literally pointing the camera
at Savio and then trying to get in the door
but it was locked.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
I was like, you didn't even try to open it?
What the hell? That's my favorite part. That's my favorite
part is that he tries to unlock the door. You've
haven't seen a camera man trying to unlock the door.
Somebody leaves, that's it, and the door is just so
happened to be locked in goddamn it. And he goes
back to sa Yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
I was like, oh, come on, man, I want to see.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Needed help regardless of whether that door was locked.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
And then you know the next night when Razor comes
out at the end after Jim Ross's promo, you know,
like trashing events and double off and everything. Uh, he
comes out of the curtain and you see him start
to come out razor the fake razor, and it pans.
The camera goes from like right at the entrance to
the aerial shot and then razors coming out, and I'm like,

(46:55):
what the hell?

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Man?

Speaker 4 (46:57):
I was so angry because you never got a good
look at him until Sabbia was like beating his ass
in the ring and then they went off the air.
I was so angry this because this was like, I guess,
the biggest week in wrestling where I wanted to know
like the answer like by the weekend or the next
one day on Raw, like I remember, I was like, oh,
I can't wait a live wire, like we're gonna see

(47:18):
what happened. And then once I saw the razor, the
fake razor and Diesel, I was like, ah, son of
a bit heart. That ten year old Nick was like
the son of.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
A bitch, Like what the hell is going on with this? Now?

Speaker 4 (47:34):
I remember they probably would have been on Nitro the
next night, right, so I watched that and I probably
saw him on Nitril.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Was like what the hell?

Speaker 4 (47:43):
I was like, Okay, maybe Nitro's taped and maybe we're
all live Like I, I literally did so many mental
gymnastics because I just want a razor and Diesel back.
It's so funny. Even though the nWo was great, I
was mad that it was taking place in WCW because
I was a WWF guy, So uh yeah it was.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
It was rough for me back then that I feel bad.
I'm sorry. Yeah, so you got duped like that man,
that damn Vin pick Man.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
That's why I had trust issues because.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Jacobs, Glenn Jacobs lied to you again, like he's still
out here lying, Glenn Jacobs, still man. He's a team
he's Team Masked, but don't want to admit it. He
went to the Hall of Fame in a mask. But
now you don't want to Now I don't want he

(48:33):
is mask the whole damn career. Now you don't want
to be Team Masks. You, of all people, should be
on Team mask. Glenn Jacobs, you know the power of
a mask. You pay for that house with that mask,
pay for that campaign with that mask. Probably didn't. You
probably got the whole lot of donations. You spend your

(48:55):
own money. Who do you think that is? Brett Favre.
Oh wait, Brett far don't spend his own money.

Speaker 7 (49:02):
Oh oh yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's some garbage stuff Bright
Far Oh yeah, garbage stuff.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
He always he seemed like a garbage human for a while.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, he's does some garbage stuff. And it's like, you
know what, like you know when you try to, like unfortunately,
you look past some of this stuff. I guess, you know, things,
you know, as things go, time moves on, people, people
move on, unfortunately. But this one is like, all right,
you know what, we gave you, like multiple chances, bro,
because you throw football like you run out of chances.

(49:41):
We're done with you. Okay, you got a lot of
chances here, but we move on. We're get to look
at Mark Merrow and for Rooke like trash on the hotline,
Mark merriw. That was a big Mark Merrow guy, big
Mark Merrow guy.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
Yeah, because I remembered him from you know, Johnny b
Bed and WSW and he wore a mask for a
little bit in WW because he was selling a facial injury.
So it was a big part of my w CW
viewing experience back in like ninety three, ninety four. I
guess in a ninety five when I watched it very sporadically.

(50:22):
So whenever a ww guy would come in to WWF
and I recognized him, I would always root for him.
If they were a good guy, if they were a
bad guy, I didn't care much. But yeah, Mark Morrow,
I was. I was rooting for him. I don't even
know what they would call Mark Merrow fans, like wild fanatics,
like wild man's like I don't know, I was a

(50:45):
wild man Mark Morrow fanatic.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
You were a Yeah, I don't know what you would
call that wild person.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
Sad sad, that's probably him. Sad my god, back then,
back then then he seems to be. He's a motivational speaker.
Now so they're for him, Yes.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
He is, he is.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
They were going to face each other though, Mark marronke
they we want to face each other the next night
for the Intercontinental Championship, the.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
One that the one that I met Johnson had to
uh relinquish because of.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
There you go. So I'm willing to bet, willing to
bet Mark Merrill won.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
That did Yeah, the for a month there you go
before mister perfect turned on him.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Oh yeah, that was buried alive. We watched that right
and goldst.

Speaker 4 (51:42):
One of time was right after the raw after yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, Kurr Hanning was winning a gigantic suit.
Gigantic suit. So go check that out in the archives
buried alive. Perhaps I've already done a deep dive on
it as a classic episode, perhaps in October. Yeah, so
go check that out in the archives. Uh, but we

(52:07):
move on to Brian Pillman just walking out to the
ring with no chance music ready to stir the pot. Okay,
he is the loose cannon. And we didn't go to
a video package where Brett Hart called Brian Pillman a liar.
He also called Owen Heart a liar. I don't think
that was actually on the pay per view though, Like

(52:28):
this was just like a Colosseum video exclusive, as Lord
Alfred Hayes would say. That's how I saw it. That's
what I think what happened. It didn't seem like it
was within the live broadcast. I do not remember, but
we get the you know, we watched the we're watching
the home video releases of these pay per views, so

(52:50):
that's happened before. We're looking at stuff that wasn't on
the live broadcast, but it's on the home video release.
After the fact.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
I think the most famous one we did was the
Royal Rumble ninety two where they talked to Rick Flair
before the Royal Rubble that he drew number three. But
like you know, we don't know, we're not knowing at
watching it live and Bobby Heenan's going nuts when he
comes out number three. So that's that's just so weird
that they would upload that. I don't know, it doesn't
go with the storyline. It's just so weird, And I

(53:21):
just wonder what makes them choose, you know, those certain
releases to put on, you know, the platforms like Peacock.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
I don't know. I guess their handy maybe half copies
of them. I'm sure he talks them up stupid, I
don't know. But Brian Pillman, he calls Philly a cesspool
of drug addicts, battered women and welfare recipients. Just don't
let Brett Favre anywhere near that welfare money. Okay he

(53:56):
said that, didn't he? Oh no, he didn't, not not yet.
No ret far if I think one MVP in ninety six,
of course, of course they won the Super Bowl at
least in the ninety six season, but he stole money
out of the warfare fund from the poorest state in
the country, the poorest of the poor, mostly black. It's

(54:20):
a black estate in the country too. Coincidence, huh, Brett
Farst rough Man, WHOA, I think you just had a
New York Daily news headline now or Philadelphia Daily needs
headline to get that the Philly Daily needs Hello, Oh.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
You could have it.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
All right, Ain't got town, ain't got town. But Brian
Pillman brings out Owen Heart, who comes jogging out to
the ring with the Slammy Award in tow O Heart
sta like six seven months Earli still walking around with it.
Owen Heart, though he thought that he and Brett had

(55:07):
made up. They had passed things up after beefing for
a couple of years, you know, mainly because Brett was
about to retire. According to Owen, even Brett had acknowledged
that Owen was the better wrestler. But if you listen
to our deep dive on Summer slanm ninety two, you
know that Brett Hart thinks very highly of himself. So

(55:29):
you know, damn well he didn't say that back then,
all right. Owen also said that Brett Hart was afraid
of Steve Austin. Guess who comes out next, Steve Austin
with this ring Master music, which just never fit. I
don't think that would fit anybody, honestly. And then we

(55:54):
get Austin talking about the Hitman.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
You've heard our thoughts on this?

Speaker 3 (56:04):
What do you think Brett's not here?

Speaker 6 (56:06):
The whole world knew that Brett Hart wasn't gonna show
UK stone cold, Sure as hell knew that. The bottom
line is when stone colds in the house, Brett Hart
is at his house because he's scared of stone cold.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
And that's the bottom line.

Speaker 6 (56:24):
As soon as I rolled into the WWF, Brett Hart,
you packed your bags and took your carcass back to Canada.
Were you trying to say Brett Hart's a chicken? Brett
Hart doesn't even qualify as being a chicken. He's a
slimy substance that runs out of the south end of
a chicken. Make myself clear. If you put the letter

(56:45):
S in front.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Of Hitman, you've had my exist right. I don't Bret,
we have to go there? Ooh think we have to
go there at all?

Speaker 4 (56:53):
I had to think about it for a second.

Speaker 6 (56:55):
A lot of ways you say you're the excellence of execution.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
I live it every day of my life.

Speaker 6 (57:02):
The problem with you is you always cared what these
people thought. Stone Cold never gave a rat's ass about anybody.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Stone Cold spin bred if you either, and I hope
you do.

Speaker 6 (57:18):
Son, We're gonna get in the same ring and somebody's
gonna get their rass whipped. And Austin three sixteen says
it's gonna be your ass. And that's somebody line.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Stone Cold said, so sucks, all right, you bastard. The
music stops and then it stunts back up. I said,
so the world's strongest man, Mark carry like, cut that off.

(57:58):
I gotta play.

Speaker 4 (57:59):
I should play, wore Austin clips During that clip, the
Phillies just hit back to back home runs to take the.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Lead in Miami. Let's go.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
You know, after I've done this part where I'm gonna
get those radio calls things, Let's go. That was funny,
great promo this. I wasn't sold on Austin by the
way after win a kick in the ring, but after
like these promos with targeting Brett Hart, like I was
kind of all in.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
I was like I hated him.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
Yeah, not because I love Brett, but I just thought
Austin was like such a jerk, And really I don't
elicit that emotion watch watching wrestling, even like as I
was growing up, I just kind of watched it. I
tried not to get emotional about it or like cheer
or boo or get upset. And I just remember hating

(58:48):
Austin so much. And this is a perfect example.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
He was fantastic in this promo. Ye, he felt so
believable compared to a pretty much everything WWF. I mean,
you still have quote unquote Razor and quote unquote Diesel
running around in the same company as Steve Awston exists
in big contrast between the two, right, he was fantastic. Also.

(59:17):
I forgot to mention earlier the whole thing about Brett
cal Pillman and Owen Liars, because they both said that
he was going to be in Philly. He said, I
was never going to be in Philly, he said, he said,
he said the situation here, But yeah, that's that whole thing.
We move on though, As you heard at the end
of that clip, Mark Henry was walking around Philly by himself,

(59:40):
just wandering around, taking in the sights of Philadelphia, because
that's what he definitely was going to do that day
before his first television.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Let me repeat it was not a photo op. No,
Mark Henry in the wild being tracked by w cameras.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Also because he's a big red blood of American and
he's in the very historic cities. He had a liberty bell.
Oh wow, you got to touch it, which is wild,
Like he's touching the liberty bell? Was that? Was that
the real one? I've never seen anybody actually touch it.
By the way, I did not see the liberty bell
in person as a Philadelphian, native Philadelphian. That's all. Once said.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
Tenth the ten years Well, I was ten years old,
the fifth grade road up, broad trip, fifth grade field trip,
road trip to Philadelphia. So we went to like the
mint uh, the Liberty Bell. Obviously that's the Ross's house,
I believe. Yeah, we saw a lot of cool things
that day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yeah, there you go. You know, there was one time,
speaking of the Betsy Ross House. As to the side,
there was one time where a group of black people
went to the Betsy Ross House. Right, this is very
he said, this is twenty twenty two in the Betsy
Ross House Twitter account had you know, they post for
a picture and they posted the picture and I said,

(01:01:08):
thanks to Darius Slade. They're coming out to the Betsy
Ross House and I see this post and I'm like,
that ain't Darius Slay. Who in that picture is Darius
Lay Like? And I was like this ain't like and
then eventually got deleted.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
But what.

Speaker 6 (01:01:28):
This is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
When I was still working for the Eagles too, we
were like.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
What did they want to reach out and be like,
it's not Darius.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
No, we didn't touch it. We thought about I thought
of it. I thought about quote tweeting it from the
Eagles account, being like, who gonna tell them classic memes?
I love it. We're like or like, Slay, you look

(01:01:56):
different now. I like, somebody stole your identity. You look
you changed over the off season. But no, it was
decided that we wouldn't do that, you know. But yeah,
that's what it ran through my head though, because that's
an opportunity. It's like, we gotta we gotta use this

(01:02:16):
while we when we can't. This was the off season.
We're looking for content, good engagement.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
But you know, you know, once they delete the tweet
it anyone that sawid screenshot it. But after the facts,
if he didn't see it, you wouldn't get.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
It right, but you know they were going to delete it,
so that would make a quote tweet kind of pointless too.
So that's some social media talk for y'all out there
in the universe. Moving on, though, it is time for
Mark Henry's. Well, no, we're not there yet. I got

(01:02:53):
jumped a gun because you just saw Mark Henry. I'm like,
he's he's gonna wrestle now, No, not yet. He just
saw the Liberty Bell, which I so I've seen only
once in my life as well as a grown adult.
It's in case in glass now, though I don't know
how you can't touch it now.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
I don't think it wasn't a glass when I went either,
and I went in nineteen I want to say nineteen
ninety five, so it was a year before this, So yeah, whatever,
it looked the same to me as I don't believe
I did. If I did, I don't remember. All I
remember is my camera, my disposable camera fell and the
film broke so and all the pictures I took were

(01:03:30):
not able to be developed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Oh man, that's terrible. You hate when the camera can't
develop in the damn unbelievable photosinner, Oh, my god, the
film is just ruined. That was a real issue back
in ninete ninety five. It devastated.

Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
I felt so bad. I was afraid to tell my mom.
She gave me all this stuff, you know, from my
Philadelphia trip and yeah, no pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Dam Look, it's okay, it's okay. I'm sad about it,
but again I'm surprised to let somebody touch it. For one,
that the Liberty Bell, but also because it's like a
historic artifacts and it's extremely old. But also somebody as
strong as Mark Henrmy, he's literally the strongest in the world.

(01:04:17):
He could just bend it somehow, and now it's ruined.
You can just pick it up, like you know why
I'm doing that. He just walked up. Only yeah, with
his big ass strong hands. No what the gloves at.
Get somebody more petite to touch this, please, not the
strongest person in the planet. We don't need him touching this.

(01:04:40):
But moving on, it is now time for the WWF
World Tag Team Championship. Is a tag team match. It
is the Smoking Guns defending against the British Bulldog, and
that's lying on heart. According to Brett Hard, come right
back like Grandpa Simpson did. You go backstage. Why didn't

(01:05:05):
he just stay in the ring. Why did he make
come do that? That's silly. I guess he got some
steps in. I guess steps in. We get a look
though before the match at Jim Cornett because two members
of his camp camp Cornett is in the ring. Now
he's in the locker room though he's not at ringside
with them because he's being intended to by a doctor.
Had to get in his ass whooped by hose of Lothario. Okay,

(01:05:28):
But also there is Clarence Mason and he's telling Cornett
to size some documents because I guess they were about
to see someone so well.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
I think it was a contract to be Owen a
Davy Boys manager. So Clarence Mason became the manager, and
I think he I forget how they told that story
down the road, but.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
That's how Clarence know what's happening, correct.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
Like he was just siding it to side it. Clarence
Mason was a shrewd businessman and what actually to be
Owen Hart and British Potal's full time manager. So that's
how they they did it. But I don't remember if
it was I only remember this because I think they
talked about it on the weekend shows that I watched
every single weekend or uh, you know, if I missed that,

(01:06:17):
I read it a couple of years ago. That that's
I always remember it being weird. But that's he was
like sided away the rights to manage Owen Heart British
bull talk. So he became, like I guess, the full
time manager of Vader. But he had been with Vader
the whole year, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
But Cortney clearly signed that contract under duress. Yeah, no,
I know. That's the funny part. He couldn't cussed at
the getting assaulted. He's lying down on a on a
on a on a hospital bed, being tended to buy
a doctor. That contract would be ripped up so fast
in court. Get this, Get this crap out of here.

(01:06:53):
They didn't even know where he was. He's assaulted. Nolan boy. Okay,
but we move on to the entrance of the smoking guns. Okay,
we got bart gunn comes out first. He's focused, he's
ready to go. But Billy Gun he's too busy, smitten
with Sonny. He is having his sunny days, so to speak.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
Okay, Well, I guess now that Brett's calling.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Look, it was maybe literally, don't do this, don't do this. Okay,
oh my god. First off, okay, we got a lot
to talk about. Let's talk about Billy Gun. Let's talk

(01:07:42):
about Billy Gun and how he is still very over
with the sisame stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
He keeps finding ways, doesn't he, which.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Is pretty wild, bro it is. Okay, they acclaimed they're
gonna win a tag titles our Grand Slam. They got
a special audition shirt just for that show. Hm hmm,
exclusive for that show for people in attendance. If they
don't tell you they're gonna win those damn tag titles,
I don't know what is today they're gonna win. You

(01:08:13):
get in this exclusive shirt. You they're probably gonna win. Okay.
If they don't, we riot, that's not they're gonna win,
all right, and nobody's gonna rioet it neither. Don't worry, okay,
but discison me stuff. It's gotten it's gotten out of hand. Okay.
So here's the thing. I got a story to tell.
As y'all know, I play flag football and I'm usually

(01:08:35):
the captain of my team, okay, and part of the
communications between you know, the players and whatnot we have
a group chat, okay, group text. And there's some wrestling
fans on my team. Okay, big wrestling fans. Not intentional
that drafted these people, it's just how it shook out.
Wrestling fans are everywhere. Okay. And he drops in. I

(01:08:57):
won't say his name, say a name. I don't want
to put them on blastedisic extent. He drops in to
this chat where there are strangers in this chat, like
people who don't know each other. Well, okay, we're just
getting to know each other. And mind you, I also
play in the Gay and Lesbian League LGBTQ League. Okay.

(01:09:19):
And if you don't know what the sison me stuff is,
look it up. Okay, look it up on your own time.
I'm not gonna explain it for y'all here, okay, but
for those who do know, this man dropped. He said
to me specifically, Hey, if I scored a touchdown, you're
gonna do the sis of me handshake thing with me.

(01:09:40):
You gotta do it, bro, You're gonna says to me,
Daddy has And then I'm like, wait a second, take
it easy, Okay, we gotta we gotta wait a second.
Watch out all right? For one pause for two. You
can't just drop that into the chat no context because
the people other people like, oh, this chat is wild tonight,

(01:10:02):
like it's going down, and we had to explain it. No,
it's a wrestling thing. It's kind of weird. It's kind
of wild. People love it. It's actually really funny, Like
I think it's kind of funny, right, but it's wild.
And he even dropped the shirt design in there, the
actual like siszony shirt. They have dropped that in there,

(01:10:24):
like yeah, this is the shirt. And I was like, man,
this is wild. This is crazy. This is the one
thing that my wife sees on wrestling and she's like,
what is going on? What is happening here?

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Does TPS know what they be saying on the television show.
It's vague enough. I guess that it's not like it's
more vague than suck it for man. Right. So we
get to the field and we win the game. We
lost the first one one a second, but he's calling
people over like he man, and he's doing their hands,

(01:10:59):
simple hands with them, They don't they just hold up
the two fingers. He just goes in and does the thing.
So it's consumed my life pretty much. That's what I'm
telling you. You gotta get that shirt. No, I don't.
It's such an absurd thing that I can't wear that

(01:11:22):
in public. People looking at you like, what the hell?
Badass billy gun one wrestler. He's like, this is the judicies.
You think it's a it's a thing. I don't feel
like doing that all the time, bro, And it's wildly
inappropriate for like, for work. It's not suitable for work.

(01:11:45):
So yeah, that's my billy gun talk for today. Uh.
We move on though. We get into the ring now
and Sonny's poster is going to unveil, and it unveils,
drops down and it's vandalized. Oh no, no, another classic

(01:12:07):
own heart rib the King of hearts, he's the King
of ribs too, so recipes to own Heart. But that
brought up a point in my head. Then I was like, oh,
that's not the first rib Sonny has ever gotten, because
she's gotten some way worse ones. Now here's the thing.

(01:12:29):
Sonny has turned out to be a pretty rotten person, right,
there's no there are very few redeeming qualities in Sonny, okay,
And there's no one going to defend Sunny at all, Okay,
she doesn't really deserve that defense. But with that said,
though I am, we still can acknowledge that she put
up with a lot of crap. No pun intended being

(01:12:51):
the only woman in the locker room in WWS for
a long time. Because everybody talks about that Sunny Days
promo and how and how it affected Brett Hart's marriage.
What did it do? What about Sonny? Though she had
a significant other. Now, granted she was doing her dirt too, okay,

(01:13:12):
but she also had a significant other. Nobody ever talks
about how that was for her right And the wildest
part was the person who said it. Sean Michaels was
the guy she was messing around with. He's having the
sunny as today. It was never cloudy always, Sonny, great

(01:13:33):
chance of showers. No, that didn't make any sense, that
didn't work, that felt real flat. I took the weather
puns too far. Now you leave it in it, I
will admit it was bad, objectively bad. Okay. Again, Sonny
is far from a sympathetic figure today though Okay, all

(01:13:56):
of her troubles were brought upon her by her. I've
been blocked personally for years by her for calling her
out because she's trying to justify her use of the
N word. So that's that's to tell you that's an
indicator type of person we're dealing with with Sonny. But
two things can be true. Because the pranks, like the

(01:14:17):
thing of the one main prank that people think about,
which is like pooping in her food, Okay, that shouldn't
This is why we shouldn't be going back to the
good old days and wrestling in the locker room right
like the gonna taking once he wants the tough guys. No,
the tough guys were pooping in people's food and the

(01:14:40):
women were having their personal business called out in the
air for no reason by the guy that she's cheating
on her spouse with what Jesus. These were grown men,
by the way, too, These were adults, supposed tough guys
right pulling like high school pranks that were literally and

(01:15:03):
figuratively disgusting. And there was nothing son they could do
about it. These guys even they spoke, They spoken on
the record about these pranks. Okay, because I found an
article from twenty seventeen with the late great Scott Hall
talking about it and pretty much pointing the finger at

(01:15:24):
Sean Walman for being the culporate And look, I'm sure
Waltman regrets his actions today. He's a grandfather and he's
pretty widely regarded as a good person. Right, he's a
good dude. People. I like Sean Waldman. I think it's
a good dude, unlikable guy. But everyone was way too old,

(01:15:44):
way too grown to be doing stuff like that. I mean,
come on, Hall in the same article that I found,
said that the same thing happened to Medusa when she
first came up, because she had a quote unquote little
bit of an attitude or she just probably spoke about
the nonsense that was going on, and the boys didn't
like it, especially coming from a woman. Heaven forbid that happens,

(01:16:08):
and instead of addressing it with her directly, they pooping
their food instead wild stuff. And like I said, these
guys were grown by in their thirties. Waltman was. He
was called kid for a reason. He was, but he
was because he was the youngest one. He was like
twenty four, but still old enough to know that you

(01:16:31):
don't do that to somebody. Okay, So that's that's a
little spiel there. Like, I don't know why that the
own heart rib I guess the British Bulldog rap made
me think of all that. But it's like, you know,
two things can be true. Sonny is a rotten person today,
she's been a rotten person, but also she and other

(01:16:54):
women put up with a lot of nonsense back in
the day, not just in WWF. I'm sure it happened
in all the wrestling promotions as well. So this is that.
But the pretty the story of this match is pretty
much that Billy Gun is blinded by love. Okay, he
is smitten again, he is in storyline. In storyline, he's

(01:17:16):
having sunny days, okay, but his love was Sonny costing
attack titles as Bulldog and one one.

Speaker 4 (01:17:27):
Got a big pop. It did get a big heel
teams because at this point the smoking guns are heels.
I when a bulldog obviously heels, but they were getting
the baby face reaction.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Yeah, I guess they were just done with the smoking guns.
I mean I was.

Speaker 4 (01:17:44):
I hated it the whole thing with Sonny because I
liked the smoking guns when they were faces, and I
hated this because I was like, no, Sonny's a bad
influence in all this. And obviously it proved to be
true because Billy Young was blinded, and the whole I
hate the most about this match is the ending. Have

(01:18:06):
you seen a more like stupid ending in your life?
Where Billy Gun just looks like the dumbest person alive.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
When he stumbles into the ring, he tries to break
up the pin and he walks right in see the
person who's going to stop him?

Speaker 4 (01:18:25):
Yeah, but not even set before that, when Bulldog counter
the power slam, I guess from bark Gun and shove
Bart into Billy. Billy pushed him back. Bulldog took his
good old time taking Bart up for the running power slam.
Billy Guns on the apron, looking like, oh what have
I done? Oh what should I do? Should I stop this?

(01:18:48):
And then Bulldog slams him goes for the pin. Billy
gunn gets in the ring. Instead of you know, going
for Bulldog to break up the pin, he walks around
him to the other of the ring because Owen Heart
was a little late for his cue. I guess maybe
he had a brain fared a little bit. And then
he does the spinning heel kick to Billy where Billy

(01:19:09):
could have easily broken up the pin and had he
just went straight to Bulldog instead, he went around the
ring just to Owen Hart.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Like I hated this. I hated this so much.

Speaker 4 (01:19:21):
Even in the time, I was like, what the hell
is Billy doing? Like where's he going? I was so
angry about this, even though I hated like the smoking Guns.
I guess I didn't want them to lose because I
hated Owen and Bulldog more. But I was, and still
watching it now aggravates me so much because the ending.

(01:19:42):
I've seen recaps written about this and it was like, oh,
pretty good ending. I was like, two, how is this
ending good? It makes everybody look stupid as hell, especially
Billy Gunn. So I think that's why I get angry
about you know, I just wanted to look real and
feel real, I guess, And that was like the fakest
ending I had seen to that point as a wrestling fan.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
I was like, what the hell?

Speaker 4 (01:20:05):
He didn't even go to kick Bulldog to bring off
the pan. He went around the whole damn pinfall to
get kicked by Owen Hart. It's so bad, a bad look,
and I'm still angry about it. What twenty six years later.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Yep, twenty six of them things and you're still still
upset about it. Yep. For some reason, Billy Goinges's like,
let me, let me break up this pin. Oh hey,
Owen kicked in the face.

Speaker 4 (01:20:34):
I'm gonna stop you first, all right, Yeah, as the
pins going on.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
Tom, I got Tom, I got I got more than
I got three seconds. I got Tom. I got a
whole three seconds. Shoot, that's plenty of time.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
If you if you miss that. If you're listening to
this and you missed that ending, go back to it.
Billy Gunn looks like such a loser. I hate it,
such a loser.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
But he's still over today. So yeah, he rebounded. He rebounded.
He's going to be managing the future aw Tag Team
champions by god by next week probably, So there you go.
We move on though, now with Kevin Kelly, who was
in the bowels of the Wells Fargo Center with Paul
Barrett and Mankind. Yeah. I don't want to have anything

(01:21:18):
from this promo. No, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
The Banchives promo was stupid, and Shawn Michael's promo before
the band event was stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
I don't like by Shawn Michaels later too, I don't worry, Oh,
don't worry. But before then we got Jerry the King
Lawler versus Mark Henry and Mark Henry's legitimately his very
first televised wrestling match, not his very first match, but
this you talk about, you know, matches overaw This was

(01:21:49):
his second match ever in his career. His first one
was I believe the night before at a house show. Yeah,
in a cage match. Dot Net was Baltimore. Yeah, okay,
there you go. So you look at Mark Henry, You're like,

(01:22:10):
why the hell they got him in his trash ass outfit?
I mean objectively bad, like the hat, the jacket, the single,
it all terrible, right, And why did they wrap his
big ass in red, white and blue? Why they they
need to do that?

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
Was he in the Olympics by this point?

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
Did he ever was a going to get to that? Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:22:33):
I didn't know if the timeline matched up.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Well because everyone always talks about Mark Henry being the
world's strongest man, and he at one point was legitimately
the world strongest man, but he was also a two
time Olympian That often gets overlooked. And that's the reason
why I guess he's decked out in red, white and
blue and he's taking a look at the monuments around Philadelphia, right,

(01:22:57):
But he competed in the weight and weightlifting and the
nineteen ninety two and Olympiads in Barcelona and in nineteenninety
six Olympiad in Atlanta, finishing tenth and fourteenth respectively, So
did not medal, but he did medal in nineteen ninety five.

Speaker 4 (01:23:12):
He's the houses, he the world's from this span.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
Then, well, it's not the Olympic event that they go by.
I guess they go by like the Arnold Classics, different
strong man competitions. Right, he didn't. I only earned that
monica until later. He's just an Olympian at this point,
but he was in ninet ninety five pan Am Games.
Won a whole bunch of titles domestically, you know, including

(01:23:35):
the nineteen ninety one US Juniors, nineteen ninety two through
ninety four, and in ninety six he won the US
Senior titles. Okay, and he also won gold in nineteen
ninety three in ninety four US Olympic festivals. So he
was pretty decorated as a body built as a weightlifter
by this point. So, and it's clear that he had charisma.

(01:23:57):
You least see him in the ring. He had some
charisma about him. He just needed some time and experience.
And look at him now, Hall of Famer and still
working in a w So how about that he's a lifer.
He's one of the longest tenured employees in WWE. Before
he left, I.

Speaker 4 (01:24:16):
Remember I was talking about, you know, at the beginning
of a w and not thinking guys like Big Show
Mark Henry would leave w and.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Those guys felt like lifers. But both of them are going,
and I'm pretty sure I forget who went. Who went
first was a Mark Henry first, and then Paul White
the other way around. I know they're good friends, so
I'm sure you know one followed the other over there
to a w again. Mark Henry's very first match, televised match,

(01:24:49):
and it's against Jerry the King Lawler, which you know
we've had our got issue with Jerry Lawler, but he's
still a legend in wrestling. That's a big deal. To
have your very first televised man on pay per view
in a city like Philly against Jerry Lawler a pretty
big deal. But he didn't act like he didn't treat
Jerry Lolar like a legend. Okay, he tossed Jerry Lawler

(01:25:11):
from one side of the broad straight to the next. Okay,
tossed that man all over the place. I'm pretty sure
day Lalla landed on South Street at one point. It
looked like it because it was a crazy bump for
Lawla when he got tossed out of the ring and
went straight to the floor. Because you gotta remember, Lawler
doesn't leave his feet that often when he works, and
he's not like he's taking crazy bumps off the top rope.
So to see him go flying out of the ring

(01:25:32):
and just going straight to the guard rail bing like,
oh damn, maybe Mark Henry did it. Didn't even mean
to do it that way, He just too damn strong
and tossed Jerry Lowler off the ring like he like
it was nothing. Okay, But Jerry Lawler gets his hands
in the foreign object and he punches Mark Henry with it,

(01:25:54):
and that's how he gains control. But that advantage was
short lived. Mark Canry hit him in the head a
couple of times with a couple of clubbing blows and
then put him in a backbreaker, sort of like a
torture rack type move to pick up the win. How
do you have how about that then leave Cassidy and
Marty Jeannetti come out. I don't know why they get

(01:26:17):
beat up. The lost Triple H comes out serving his
little you know, punishment from the curtain call. He's limited
to run out to get beat up by Mark Henry
duty otherwise known as job or duty. And there you are.
And now that same guy, the same guy who was

(01:26:37):
putting the dog house about Vince McMahon has to be replaced.
Vince McMahon in the creative chair moves. What a time man,
Triple H came, walked through the hog pen and came
out clean on the other side, or he might clean
on the other side, right, Also, why are all these

(01:27:00):
white guys trying to beat up on a big black guy?
What the hell? You know? I had my doctor who
wore face looking on looking like what what's going on here?
What's going on? Why they beating up on the big
brother like this?

Speaker 4 (01:27:18):
Get they did?

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
Get the head work they did. That's that's the fact.
He's literally stacking them on top of each other like
he tossed up late on top of Lucassidy and Martin Seinetti.
But man, nobody could do anything with Mark Henry though,
Like you said, and they shot off fireworks because yay,
Mike Henry's here. Okay, we move on from that, though

(01:27:44):
we didn't get a promo for the Bear to Live
match one in your House. I think I was.

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
I always enjoyed them announcing like the main event of
the next pay per view at that pay per view
when it was in your house, and I remember seeing
that and be like, oh, like the undertaking our mankind
in a main event, like I okay, like what about
Seawan Michaels.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
You know that was me like the Champions to be
event every single show, but I didn't. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:28:12):
It was funny, like they do such a good job
of hyping their pay per views that I didn't care for.
I was like, oh, like, that's going to be a
pay per view that you know, I don't care about.
And then like that Saturday weekend of the pay per view,
I'm like begging my mom in the order. I was like, please,
I want to see one of these guys get buried Alive.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:28:32):
That didn't happen, so I didn't watch Buried Alive live,
but I remember seeing that, you know, ad or whatever
they ran or announcing it and being like that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
And then Jr.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
Continually given Vince shit about it being unsanctioned, and I
was like, why what does that matter? Like, why does
this matter to me? They never really explained section versus
unsanctioned and why Jim Ross has such a problem with
it because he kept bringing it up. He kept bringing
up the rest of the night when they would talk

(01:29:08):
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
They did. But WWE or WWF whatever you want. Carlin
has shown a propensity to not really care about the
unsanctioned ness of a match, Like they just say it's unsanctioned,
but they will still supply a referee. They still supply
entrance in themes and music and the pinfall and the
bell like all that stuff. But it's unsanctioned. We don't,
we want nothing to do with this. Here's a referee

(01:29:33):
to counter three. Okay, I always find that funny. But
we move on to the to a final curtain match
between gold Dust and the Undertake. I so you probably wonder,
what in the hell is a final curtain match? Are

(01:29:55):
there curtains? Is it for somebody? Titans? Do you had
to wrap your opponent up in a curtain tofall?

Speaker 6 (01:30:06):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
What is it? Is it? No? Disqualification match. That's what
it is, and the only way he can win is
by a pinfall and.

Speaker 4 (01:30:15):
No submissions or counting missions. That's kind of weird, but
it's like the Undertaker who couldn't put the sharp shit
or on goal.

Speaker 1 (01:30:22):
Dust and win only pinfalls in a final curtain match.
Undertake I didn't waste any time to start whooping ass.
As soon as he got in the ring, he commenced
to whooping ass.

Speaker 4 (01:30:35):
He This was the first pay per view match for
the Undertaker post Paul Burr. Paul Burrow turned on him
the previous month, so Undertaker, he came out like walking fast,
no jacket, no hat. It was a pissed off Undertaker.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
Yeah. He got up on the ring apron and immediately
did this throat slash and I was like, Oh, there's
gonna be some trouble, trouble for Goldusty and it was.
This match was fine, but one with a choke slamb
not even a tombstone, but with a choke slam. He
got a tombstone. Is that he did? I missed that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:10):
He hit the choke slam off the middle open then
hit the tombstone.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Oh I missed that. I thought the chokes LAMB was
like I thought that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:20):
I thought the exact same thing, and I was like, oh,
he does pick them up because in my mind I
was like, oh, he doesn't tombstone ball with us, and
that he did.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
I was like, Oh, we got tab real quick while
this this match is over. So this match is ending.
Check something over here, check an email or something. I
don't know, but again, this match was fine. I don't
know if you had any Yeah, it was. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:31:41):
I guess they had like a mini few that year.
They had a match a Beware of Doll two that
we we deep ove on. Uh, they might have fought
each other again because but the Undertaker was you know,
they really feuded with Mankind and gold Dust at the
same time, which was interesting. And this final current match,
I guess was to wrap the bow because they were
going to do the Buried Live match the next month

(01:32:04):
with Mankind. So uh, but that's about it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, this was really just to
get Undertaken to Buried Alive for that match. So there's that.
But we move on. We're now backstage with Kevin Kelly,
who's interviewing the Heartbreak Kid Sean Michaels. Who's about to

(01:32:30):
defend his title, his WWF title against mankind. Now we
don't have this promo, right, No good, because let's talk
about Shawn Michaels. Let's talk about Shawn Michaels for a second,
and specifically Sean Michaels in nineteen ninety six, because I

(01:32:52):
feel like we didn't talk about this enough. During our
Survivor Series ninety six episode of The Straight Shooters, we
did deep dive into that show, and of course the
main event was Sid visiter Shawn Michaels. Sid bat Shawn Michaels,
but also Sid gets cheered like he's a god amongst men,
and Shawn Michaels gets booed like he's a piece of trash, right,

(01:33:16):
And it got me to thinking like why, And then
more we've done these deep dives. When we watch the nineties,
especially mid nineties WWF, you start to remember, you start
to kind of like piece things together. And one person
I blame is Vince McMahon. Easy person to blame, right,

(01:33:36):
but I feel like his commentary never did Sean Michaels
any favors ever, the charismatic, the most flamboyant, that clink,
Oh my god, and yeah, to think about when for
every other top babyface, I guess Diesel count as part

(01:33:57):
of this as well. But for a lot of other
top baby faces, we're talking Hogan, we're talking Brett for
the most part, we're talking Steve Auston, we're talking to
Rock sena Rains on that or whatever. Only really I
guess Brett Hart, Diesel and Shawn Michaels had Vince McMahon
as the announcer. Okay, Jimmy Ross was there for Steve Austin,

(01:34:21):
Michael Cole and whoever else is there for John Sen
or Roman Rains, you know what I'm saying. Of course,
Grila mon Soon's there for Hogan, and even there for
Brett early Brett right when he's a top guy. But
pretty much throughout Diesel and Sean's run is Vince. And
you wonder why those guys didn't work right as far

(01:34:42):
as like ticket sales. Interesting because every time they come out,
he's that most flying born Oh my god, oh these.

Speaker 6 (01:34:48):
This and that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
Meanwhile, nobody else ever really did that for the top guys.
He would go so far in and prison these guys.
It's no wonder they started getting booed.

Speaker 4 (01:34:59):
Yeah, you're listening to that every week at home. He's
shut the hell up.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
He would go on and on. He's the most flamboyant,
the most charismatic. Oh he's the clickst doing this. And
who was it who he say for? Diesel? All big daddy, cool,
big sex same and it's like, man, just shut up, bro,
he made me not want to like this guy. Okay, Yeah,
I mean and Joe Michaels who was a pretty boy too,

(01:35:24):
so yeah, they played it up so much. And it's
just still the nineties, right where people are very adverse
to uh, you know, less than super masculine males say that, right,
you need to have some of cheese mo about you, okay,
And in the nineties and here comes Sean who should

(01:35:48):
have probably never been a babyface with the dangling ear
rings and the chaps and the whole get up as
the sexy boy, as the heartbreak kid. He probably should
have never been a babyface in the nineties at least,
especially given who Show Michaels really was in the nineties too.
Who wanted to cheer in this guy?

Speaker 6 (01:36:03):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
But there's no wonder day someone they chose someone like
sid who's huge. He's jacked. He's crazy badass at least
on screen. Yeah, you damn right out of cheer for
sid So Yeah, at this point, Seawn Michaels is made
to be a heel. He even showed like his aggressive
side is quote unquote heel side in the main event here.
But it's thank goodness they turned him back heel on

(01:36:28):
ninety seven a right, or really was yet ninety seven.
Thank goodness they did that because baby Face Shawn Michaels,
at least in the nineties, was not gonna cut it
for very long. He had to run. Don't get me wrong,
Seawan Michaels had to run, and people did like Shawn Michaels,
and of course he was a I think he's a

(01:36:49):
much better babyface in the second act of his career
than the first. Right when he came back, he's just
pretty much sympathetic figure. By that point. It's a legend
and everybody loved him, and he's a different character. He
wasn't a sexy boy anymore. He should show Michaels at
that point, he's Michael Hickenbot'm pretty much right just with
the sexy boy music and all that. But in the nineties,

(01:37:10):
I just no wonder it didn't work because Vince McMahon
would he was a soundtrack for them week after week,
and he just would go on and on about it
and just he just wasn't good at trying to prop
these guys up as like the top stars. He would
he would overdo it, which is, yeah, that's what Vince
McMahon does. Like that miss McMahon to a t.

Speaker 4 (01:37:31):
You know, it's funny we make fun of his commentary,
but I didn't really think about that until he brought
it up. Could absolutely be a detriment to those guys
and how well business already being like not great. You know,
he's just kind of making it worse. And obviously it's
not trying to but you know, his audience is just
not and and he and Vince would make the other

(01:37:54):
commentators repeat the same lines he says too. On like
these weekend shows, a live ry would hear them guys
like Doc Hendricks and Todd ted Gil say the most
charismatic champion of all the time, like, oh my god,
people don't want to hear that. People people don't want
to hear that. It's Vince who has a damn it's funny, Yeah,
it's funny that you mentioned that because now I'm thinking

(01:38:14):
about it and we make fun of his commentary. But uh,
probably are right about that. Like people, it wasn't so
much Shawn Michael's inside the ring because I mean, he
wasn't having bad matches. It was just like everything's set
about him, just turn people off the.

Speaker 1 (01:38:33):
Fault of his own. Look at the calendar the survivor
cities in November. Those people in New York had heard
Vince McMahon for weeks, for months talk about Shawn Michaels
in that way, and they were like, they're sick of it.
So boo, you suck now. So there's that. It's just
something I thought about. Man, the same thing. Again. I

(01:38:55):
don't think it helped Diesel either. Okay, I don't think
it helped them at all, helped him at all. But
like even on this night, Vince's going, here's all of
the crowd sound like the Flyers just wanted to stand
in the cup. Oh my god. It's like, bro, you don't.
He'd never heard that before. And again this is what
made me think about the Flyers have never won a
Stanley Cup in its building. Thanks, Oh my god. It's

(01:39:20):
like the standing no, damn well. Also, you know, damn well,
if the Flyers were to actually win a Stanley Cup,
it'd be way louder than Michael's got his ovation for Okay,
well he got for his ovation. Stop it right now, Okay,
especially especially today, as long as people have been waiting
for a Stanley Cup. Boyl boy, that's likes Flyers win

(01:39:41):
a Stanley Cup. Man, who knows what's gonna happen. All
the Bucks County might in Montgomery County, it might be
messed up out there, man, all the burbs surrounding suburban counties. Man,
it's gonna be wild. In parts of South Philly, it's
gonna be crazy, real crazy. The Flyers did get the

(01:40:02):
Stanley Cup though. In ninety seven they got to the
Stanley Cup and the next year, but as we talked
about in the past episode, boy did they get swept
by the Red Wings in that series. Oo doggy. But yeah,
I'm pretty sure the only professional team that I can
think of, pro team, not college for pro team that's

(01:40:24):
won a championship at the Wells Fargo Center, like literally
at the Worlds Fargo Center. Your team was the Philadelphia Soul. Yeah, Okay,
I'm pretty sure, they won three, but the last one
they won was at the Wells Fargo Center, like literally
at the arena. But I guess you can count Villanova
if you count teams that played in the Wells Fargos,

(01:40:47):
and the Villanova plays occasional home games there. But I'm
trying to think of other teams that might have been
the Wings. I don't think they might have won a
championship there. Maybe when we were younger. We don't remember. Okay,
the first version of the Philadelphia Wings, So Wings fans
out there.

Speaker 4 (01:41:00):
I apologied the Phantoms did the Flyers HL affiliate they
won the Calder Cup.

Speaker 1 (01:41:06):
I think it was professional. That is professional. That is professional,
and I'll give them credit. I'll give you credit for that.

Speaker 4 (01:41:12):
I think we that was the Mike Richards Jeff Carter
led team before they got called up to the Flyers.
I remember. I think it was during the lockout too so,
but the AHL wasn't locked out, so uh, me and
my friends were well into the AHL that year.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
That ain't fair. You don't have these little like actual
NFL players.

Speaker 4 (01:41:33):
Well no, they weren't in the NHL yet they were
still they hadn't been called up to the Flyers so.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Like five or sixty. Yeah, yeah, oh that lockout. I
come thinking of the lockow on like twenty twelve, No, no, no,
so another lockout. So yeah, that was fun. That was
a good time.

Speaker 4 (01:41:48):
I think that team was coached by John Stevens as well.
He would eventually become the Flyers heide coach down the road.
But I remember thinking like, oh, like, these guys are
gonna win us the Cup. And I mean they got
us there, but the finals at least, but two wins,
two wins away. That's the closest we've been.

Speaker 1 (01:42:08):
So I take back what I said about the Wings.
They won championship in ninety eight and two thousand and one.

Speaker 4 (01:42:15):
Okay, And I believe Border City champions.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
Kind of right at least it seems like it the
Soul and the Wings. So yeah, I guess. And I
think that game in two thousand and one where they
clinched it was here, I think. But uh yeah, not

(01:42:41):
the sixes of the Flyers unfortunately, either one of those teams.
But we move on for seventy six ers. Hey, let's hope,
let's do it. I'm here for it. I want to
see a championship. I want to see all four teams
win the same year, that'd be the wildest year. I
love that, how with Phillis four parades in the space

(01:43:03):
of a calendar year pretty much because you could feasibly
had the Eagles win in February sixes and Flyers winning
around the same time, and then Phillies in October. Couldn't
handle it, couldn't handle it. It would be a good
year for the Bars, though I know that there you go,
it'd be a good year for the Bars. But also
we talked about Sean Michaels and his baby face running

(01:43:25):
ninety six. But let's talk about mankind. The man mc
foley was almost never hired by WWF. Jim Ross had
to beg and fight to get mc foley hired, and
Vince McMahon only did it under the condition that he'd
wear a mask at least that's the word on the

(01:43:46):
street right which he had never worn a mask as
Cactus Jack, but he was in WWF.

Speaker 4 (01:43:56):
I was like, that guy sounds familiar because I've heard
it before, but I didn't know it was the same
guy until the same guy. I saw the infomercial for
ecw Uh. Joey Styles on commentary was like calling Cactus
Shacks last match at the ECW. He's like, this is
Cactus Shacks last match at ECW before he becomes Mankind

(01:44:16):
in the World Wrestling Federation.

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
I was like, I knew it. I knew it, and
break the fourth wall for you. Oh my god, I go,
there you go, there you go. I was on it.
I was on it for a while. Mick went to WWF,
Betta himself put an amazing character work, and now here
he is man inventing a pay per view for the

(01:44:38):
WWF Championship and that's what that's Our next match is
sewn Michaels defending against Mankind. Mankind arrives in a casket.
Oh and I thought the visual of him rising out
of the casket looked pretty cool. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:44:55):
It's still used today along with the Undertaker rising out
of caskill whenever where teams make a big comeback. Well,
he's mostly the Undertaker one, but I've seen this Mankind
one as well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:06):
But to sit up and the zoom in on the
face is a good shot. I'll give WWE credit for that,
because again, great gift material. Yes, great mean material for
anybody pretty much on Twitter think.

Speaker 4 (01:45:20):
In ninety six we're having that conversation and be like, listen,
in twenty years, this is why we shoot things like this.
We're gonna it's gonna be on social media and everyone's like,
what's what tell social media?

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
Now? Vince was thinking about how much money he's gonna
give to another mistress. That's what he's probably thinking about.

Speaker 4 (01:45:37):
Yes, he was, and what else? What other adjectives he
was gonna use to describe Michaels as well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
He's clamboyant, he's clairvoyant. He can read minds, you can
see the future, you can do it all guys. He's
a magician, he's psychic, he's a doctor. He's president. It's
just president.

Speaker 4 (01:46:05):
And the you know his nickname was it the heart
Throb of all heart throbs have like some dumb ass
nicknames like that through the years.

Speaker 1 (01:46:12):
The heart Throb of heart throbs. Hmmm, that's terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:46:18):
What wasn't a Jack Swagger? The all American American?

Speaker 1 (01:46:21):
Like, yeah, what the hell? God, Vnce the hell was that?
And he would say I'm all American American. He's like, okay, sure,
all right, yes you are, sir, all right, a very
large human being, all American American. I guess. But the

(01:46:44):
match begins in Mick Foley Mankind. He's going nuts. He's
already pulling up ring mats, but Sean Michaels again showing
his aggressive side, see because he's the mind games of
Mankind are getting to him, ter mind games, the literal
mind games. And he drop kicks the mats into mcfold.

(01:47:04):
Not only drops it kicks the mat. He dropped kicks Mankind.
He's holding up the mat. But then he double foot
stumps man Con twice, not once, but twice, like he's
Finn Balor or something. Also, did you see Finn Balle
with the bandana round his head on wrong? Like prison fin?
I think so vaguely, remember, I think it's kind of funny.

Speaker 4 (01:47:26):
Okay, is it like backwards like Kevin Ash used to wear.

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
Yeah, it's like yeah, it's like the Tupac style or
something like that. And then he had in his back pocket.
I think like a gang. He in a gang just today, okay,
so let's see where that goes. There are gangs who
wear purple. Don't think you safe, okay, I ain't gonna
name names, but there are gangs who wear purple. Okay,

(01:47:54):
so just be careful where you go with that purple bandana.
Some people might not like it. Oh you this year?

Speaker 6 (01:48:00):
Boy?

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
Did you with them? No, this is just my character
on television on screen gang the jsmon day. You know
you don't want to get checked because you've got a
bandana in your back pocket.

Speaker 4 (01:48:14):
You can see more of our stuff on Peacock if
you subscribe here, right, it's like being the company motto.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
You can subscribed. We're on YouTube as well. You can
check us out there at ww on Twitter. Yeah. Yeah,
But we get back to the ring, things are already wild.
Gold dust like dust is everywhere, dude, I hate this everywhere? Why?

Speaker 4 (01:48:42):
Like this is the thing I hate about this era too,
Like did they not just sweep it? Like was it
hard to sweep? And why did Vince do that? Knowing
for months, literally really like years, every single match after
a gold Dons match, every competitor would have all this
crap on their back.

Speaker 1 (01:48:59):
I hated it. I know you got to wrestle after
who right, I don't understand this and his gold dust?
Oh man, I don't have that stuff. I gotta take
a shower right after the match, Like I go to
the shower nowhere else not getting a cup of water
or nothing. Get this damn dust. I mean, can take
three showers and get this dust off of men. This

(01:49:21):
is the title match, and they're just glistening with gold
glitter on him, Like what is going on here? Change
the visual?

Speaker 4 (01:49:28):
Like didn't evince not like did he like it? I
guess maybe he did, Like maybe he did.

Speaker 1 (01:49:34):
I don't know, because it's glaring and it's like, don't
do it. You saw Okay, you did it one time.
You saw what happened after in the next match. You
can't put Goldust in the main event every night, so
somebody's going to wrestle after him, and.

Speaker 4 (01:49:50):
He has these video packages and interviews beforehand. Get somebody
out there to sweep it up, like it's not that hard.

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
Yeah, I don't know. But they had Seawan Michaels out
here looking literally like the Golden Boy, the Golden child
here with the gold dust and glitter all over his body. Okay,
but Shawn Michaels dives over a table to elbow mankind

(01:50:20):
in the face. That was spot was pretty cool. That's
one of the many things you saw in this matches.
You did not see a lot in Next ninety six. Yep, Okay,
same for Mankind being suplex into the steps leg first.

Speaker 4 (01:50:33):
Oh yeah, okay, I remember feeling like, oh crap.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
It's serious. This is serious now on pay per view
it's serious, right, because again Michaels was showing his aggressive
side because his opponent has made him this way. So
it's a nice little wrinkle to the story. Michael's even
shoving referees, which I mean, that's just Shawn Michaels being
Shawn Michaels, Right, that's rude. That's just that's Shawn Michaels.

Speaker 4 (01:50:59):
Coming of a champion.

Speaker 1 (01:51:00):
That's not the mind games taking effect. That's something Sean
Michaels would do in reality. Okay, but they were, you know,
the story was the mind games were having an effect
on Shawn Michaels. Shawn Michaels was working like a heel
pretty much. He's working Mankind's leg. Okay. At one point
he did a move to Mankind's leg that mister Perfect

(01:51:22):
would do a lot. Mister Perfect said, hey, he stole
one of my moves, so he's wrestling the match perfectly.
How about that. Mankind, though, try to shove off the
punishment and get his leg back together and get some
feeling back in his leg by stabbing it with a

(01:51:46):
foreign object. He borrowed it.

Speaker 4 (01:51:47):
He borrowed it from Paul Burger. It's like, okay, why
don't you use that on Shawn Michael's be like, no myself,
I hope.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
The hell off my knee, like I'm Ricky Bobby in
the hospital, and then I feel long in my leg.
I can't do this, Like, don't do it, Riggy, don't
do it. He just stabbed himself in the leg, and
in order to get that knife out, they stuck another
light knife in his leg.

Speaker 4 (01:52:13):
I'm gonna go back and watch that scene because I
vaguely remember that I haven't seen it so long.

Speaker 1 (01:52:19):
Put another knife in so you can cut around the wounds. Oh,
I got a second knife in me now, Like, so
there's that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:27):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:52:29):
But it was a great spot though, I will say
that there was a great spot. Just the showcase again,
how dranged and demented mankind was supposed to be. He's
willing to put himself through pain or something weird to
get his leg back work. And he could just slap
it a little bit. No, I'm gonna take this foreign
object and just poke it a whole bunch of times.
It's wild stuff, okay, But this is where I noted

(01:52:52):
that Shawn Michaels and Mankind Mick Foley worked together so well,
Like it looked like when he watched his they were
tailor made for each other when they were like did
that suplex spot? And Strong landed on the apron and
he just seamlessly got back into the ring out of
the way from mankind of running too the ring post,
and I was like, you know what, Man, these two
work really well together, and it's a shame that we

(01:53:14):
didn't get that much between these two.

Speaker 4 (01:53:17):
Yeah, this was the early match, right they had. They
had one on Raw back in ninety seven, right after
saw Michael's turned heel after Summer Slam, and I think
that was it, like the the only two to one
on one matches they've had. And I remember that Raw
specifically because I taped it so and I watched it
a lot and the Live Wire episode actually that showed

(01:53:39):
the repeat of it. So they had this match and
then Shaw Michael's being the heel Mankind being the face
on Raw in August nineteen ninety seven, the only two
matches they've had, and I think one on one in WF.

Speaker 1 (01:53:53):
That's wild to me, and I get it. Like ninety seven,
Mick Foley Mankind was primarily feuding with Triple H and
by the time he kind of got away from that
into ninety eight, Seawn Michaels was injured. He's on his
way out, and then he goes away, and then Mick
Foley kind of comes up into the main event status
and eventually wins a title, but again Shawn Michaels is away,

(01:54:14):
and then by the time Sean Michaels comes back, Mick
Foley is like a year or two retired. So it's
like what we could have had, but we just didn't
get before for whatever reason. But I feel like guys
of this bigger names Shaw, Michaels and Mankind, you know again,
Mankind was they were pushing him hard in ninety six.
He just figured that they would have got more out

(01:54:34):
of these two. But we just didn't, like you said,
according to you, two matches.

Speaker 4 (01:54:38):
I mean I didn't look it up, but those are
the two I remember. I can't remember another one on one, uh,
you know, definitely yeah, definitely a paper, not a pay
per view.

Speaker 1 (01:54:47):
But even on raw I do not recall. But and
you wouldn't think they would.

Speaker 4 (01:54:55):
Have had a match before this, because this is like
a pay per view main event, so it's not like
they had a raw MA to June ninety six or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:55:02):
Like that, or they probably had house show matches, but
I'm talking about televised right right, Yeah, big matches. I
don't remember very many from these two. The other spot
that made me go, wow, that was kind of dope
was when Mankind got caught up in the ropes, yes,
and Shawn Michael s goes to get him out, but
did he get the Mankind gets the mandible claw and
Sean that's dope. I'm like, oh, that's dope. Cool.

Speaker 4 (01:55:25):
Like those spots scared the hell out of me, right so,
and I was like, oh my god, I hope Mankind's
is like okay. And then he's given, like Seaw the
mandible claw, and I almost wanted to like hate him
for it, but I'm like, well, he's also trying to win.
His head's gonna stap off, but he's trying to win.
Like it almost endeared him to me a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:55:44):
I think as a fan, I think Mick, because you
could take punishment, that lets Sean be more aggressive. Also,
I think Mick was open to being more creative with spots.
I think because Shawn Michaels maybe didn't get to do
that all the time with bigger guys, he got to
do it Mick. So that and Mick did unique stuff
like getting caught up in the ropes or doing the

(01:56:05):
elbow from the ring apron to the floor. Mick could
do some unique stuff that Sean couldn't do with everybody.
So to me, they were great for each other. It
sucks that we didn't get more from these two. Again,
that mandibal call spot was cool Michaels Sean Michael's using
a chair while the referee's back was turned again, why

(01:56:29):
got booed after this?

Speaker 4 (01:56:30):
And it made sense, like right in the knee that
he's been working on all match and right in the hand, Yeah,
taking the manible call away right after mankind put the
manial call on. So he's like, oh, I got to
get rid of that, even though he knew about it beforehand.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
So like it.

Speaker 4 (01:56:44):
A lot of these spots made sense too, along with
the commentary to kind of lead you a little bit.
But uh, you know, like if you were watching it
all mute, you would have been like, ah, Okay, I
can follow this, and I think that's the beauty of it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:58):
Yeah, you can tell a story without saying actual words.
He just is physical storytelling.

Speaker 4 (01:57:06):
That's the thing I love most about pro wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
When that could happen. Yeah, yeah, And then that's what
they always say, We're trying to tell a story, and
sometimes the stories are very incoherent. But in this one
it came across. And that's why I'm like, I wish
we got more from these two because this was great, Okay,
including the spot where they go from the top rope
through an announced table. Okay, with like the back body

(01:57:32):
drop spot that was dope. Again Jr. Thought their backs
could have been broken, okay, and then Strong Michaels immediately
gets up and starts moving around. It's like, I don't
think it's back is broken. Not yet ninety eight is
you know, that's still a thing that happens. Shawn Michaels
really does Bakers bring us back? And he was moving around.

(01:57:53):
He finished that match and he got to the Wrestlemenium
match somehow he did. Shawn Michaels at one point super
kicked a chair into Mankind's face. But when I when
this happened here is when I was like, all right,
I'm fed up because JR. Was calling the hell out
of this match. Yes, okay, he was calling this match.

(01:58:15):
I hope he was calling it with the the energy
that classic JR. Would bring to a call. And then
because he's not the primary playboy play guy, Vince has
to get his stuff into and he's like, man, he
just made this worse. Like let JR. To call it,
not the way. Let JR call it because he's giving
me the vibes that I need right now, like with

(01:58:36):
urgency and excitement and energy and n oh my god,
this is this credit. Oh my good. No man, no, no, no, right, no, no, no, no, no,
no no, that's I think Vince really hurt the television
product as an announcer in the mid nineties. Bro. I
think he honestly did. And no, no, he didn't really necessarily.

(01:58:57):
Maybe he didn't want to do it full time. Maybe
he just did it because girl soon was going away.
You need to going off camera, But I don't know. Man,
you go back and live, I will, you know, if
you have time.

Speaker 4 (01:59:09):
Eventually go back and watch some of those nineteen ninety
four nineteen ninety five Monday Night Raw episodes. Luckily there
are only one hour, and even the taped ones, there
is so much forceful pop culture references, just things Vince
does that you obviously know Jerry Lawler is doing too,

(01:59:30):
because Vince wants him to do it, that you're just like,
oh my god, Like this is too much, Like you
might have to pause it or turn it off for
a while because it's too it's too much. And you know,
I've been watching some of those episodes, like the last
few years, ninety four, ninety five, and it just comes
through like so ridiculous that Vince, whatever in his mind

(01:59:51):
was making him decide to do these things, it certainly
wasn't helping the product. I remember wanting to looking forward
to the weekend programs because I didn't have to, like
hear Vince obviously on the replays and the recaps they
would show. He would obviously be all Raw, but you know,
they had different announcers and I would rather listen to

(02:00:11):
them than Vince. And you know, I guess it was
subconscious because to me, wrestling was wrestling. I loved it anyway.
I didn't pay attention as much to the commentary as
I did, you know, as I got older, but dude,
like he was bad.

Speaker 1 (02:00:27):
He was just a bad comment. They really notice it
until watching this show because you really get to see
because JR. They would call shows together, JR And Vince
would call shows together, but JR wouldn't, like he brought
a lot of energy to this specific particular match. Well,
he wouldn't do that all the time with Vince. He
would let Vince take the reins on that, right, But
in this match with JR is really calling his action

(02:00:48):
because JR, of course is play by play, That's what
he came up doing specifically for WCW and he's employee.

Speaker 4 (02:00:55):
Try to put over everything that we're seeing, right, and
he doesn't really hate like you know, job to hear JR.

Speaker 1 (02:01:02):
Bring the energy and authenticity and and excitement to it
and in events side by side, and it's like, oh,
because Vince. The biggest issue I have with Vince is
that he removes the authenticity. It feels phony when he's
calling it. It doesn't feel like, ye, this is a
real thing that's happening. JR. Brings humanity to it. It's

(02:01:23):
weird to say, like even Dusty Roads. When we talk
about Dusty Rose and Deput's w I'm not lying when
I say I really love Dusty Rosen commentary because he
reacts like an actual person. He reacts like an actual
person who's watching wrestling for the very first time. That's
endearing to me because obviously he's a legend and he's
seen more wrestling even to this day than I've probably

(02:01:44):
ever seen. And of course he's been passed you knows,
been passed on for many years now. Rest in peace
of Dusty Rhodes. But like they brought a realness of
authenticity to it that just Vince just didn't bring. It
just sounded like this isn't real. And I think that's
what hurt. Sean Michael was in Diesel too. I think
he hurt the product at times. I did. Like I said,

(02:02:05):
I never really thought about it until I watched the show,
and maybe because again him and Jr. Are kind of
going back and forth with the action and it's like, oh,
it's a big difference between these two because one is
giving me good vibe and the other one is just like, ah, no,
you can you can be quiet.

Speaker 4 (02:02:21):
It's like what one is telling me what I'm seeing
and the other one is telling me what I should
be like thinking almost the way he described the way
he describes you know, these these wrestlers and stuff, where
that's Vince's style.

Speaker 1 (02:02:35):
Jr.

Speaker 4 (02:02:36):
Is just like, you know, you might not like mankind,
but he's a hell of a guy, like a hell
of a He has an a ton of courage. Like
he would talk up the heels almost which I hated
at the time, but uh, you know there was a
reason for it, so he could almost put the baby
face over even more, whereas Vince's way of putting him
over was adding adjectives to.

Speaker 1 (02:02:56):
The Oh he hit them with the chair in the
flamboyant way. Oh, it's clairvoyant too. We saw it coming,
he countered.

Speaker 4 (02:03:07):
He got up with the arm drag. It's all over
one two Vince like a relax.

Speaker 1 (02:03:17):
Really bad bro. It's really noticeable on this particular show.
And then we've obviously watched countless shows either deep dives
or not with misstic man calling the action.

Speaker 4 (02:03:28):
Over two years now we've been doing this, and uh,
I thin some of it is I'm having a little
deja vu. I think we had a similar conversation probably
one of the shows in this era when they have
the three man booth with Vince Jr. And Jerry Lawler.
H this is Vince Jr. And mister Purfect. But it's
the same. I mean, it's the same exact thing.

Speaker 1 (02:03:48):
Yeah, Vince, and and eventually he did, but he just
needed to get up the hell off the way, and
the announcing became miles better when it was just Jr
And King because Jay Are can do his thing and
Jered Laula did his thing whatever you want to call that.
But JR got to shine, okay, And that's why he's
a Hall of Famer now because that error right there,

(02:04:09):
even though he was had a great career before that.
But when Vince got out the way and Jr. Took
over as the voice of WWF at the time, Bam,
all of a sudden, the announcement became tolerable again. How
about that? Right? We move on to the end of
this match, as Vader comes out and attack Shawn Michaels,

(02:04:29):
forcing it eight minutes late. Is that is that the reality? No? Okay,
that door on the street.

Speaker 4 (02:04:39):
The the ending of this and and SummerSlam. We we've
heard the stories of why Vader didn't beat Shawn Michaels
at Survivor Series. They went with Sid instead. I gotta
tell you, man like, and we know Sean wasn't the
greatest employee, but I don't necessarily blame him for just
being fed up and and refusing to put Vader over

(02:05:02):
when you have whatever mistake they had in SummerSlam and
then this and who knows what else happened on TVs.
I mean, Vader just did not do himself any favors
in the spotlight, and I don't like I would have
liked to see Vader win, but Sid was over as hell,
by the way, so that didn't really backfire on them.

(02:05:24):
But they just make they look so stupid. You know,
when you miss a cue, you make Seawan Michaels look
really stupid taking his old time the pin mankind mankind
happened to kick out of a sweet chin music with
a chair to the face. You just make everybody look bad.
And when you're in the spotlight and you're in the
main event, like that can't happen. So I don't blame

(02:05:49):
Sean for basically being fed up with Vader. As bad
as that might sound, I.

Speaker 1 (02:05:56):
Liked Vader.

Speaker 4 (02:05:57):
I like Vader, but how do you miss that queue?
I mean, how do you build up those mess ups.

Speaker 1 (02:06:05):
You just mess up. Big boss Man messed up his
queue at was the Survivor series ninety eight, Like are
you not a gorilla?

Speaker 4 (02:06:13):
No one is no one telling you to be like
go out right now?

Speaker 1 (02:06:15):
Like what's going on in WrestleMania, Like yeah, something like that.
Why is that happens?

Speaker 4 (02:06:22):
Why are they not chilling a gorilla and having somebody
be like all right now and you go out? I mean,
like Vader wasn't even running down the aisle when you
have the camera angle after Sean was pulling mankind in
to pin them, not even running down the aisle yet,
So like what's going on? I don't blame Vader completely

(02:06:44):
because obviously the quality control there was not very well.

Speaker 1 (02:06:48):
That's a collective because, like you said, somebody should be
the Vader there waiting the main event anger Vader. It's
not like all yah lad, don't get something to eat,
come over here, know what I mean? Like, don't get
something to drink, don't like go to the bath Like, well,
go to the bathroom. He'll go to the bathroom, but like,
don't wander off somewhere and do something. Stay here, right,

(02:07:09):
hang out at least give the time frame whatever you
do bring it here, don't you know if you'll get
something to drink or play the food or you're gonna play,
you know, talk to somebody, talk to him up here,
something like that. That's a collective failure. Yeah, because yeah,
people should they should be there, Like you said that,
people shouldn't really be really missing cues.

Speaker 4 (02:07:28):
But but Sean in his state at that time in
ninety six, his buddies were gone, he was he had
the world w w F on his back, and he's
obviously feeling the stress and having Vader mess up more
than once. You know, it's just like, look, I don't
belive for being like I'm done.

Speaker 1 (02:07:44):
Look, the stress is one thing, all right, we I
feel stressed in my job, but it didn't want to
be it. You have to be an asshole to anybody either.
Sean Michael was still an asshole. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:07:52):
Absolutely, let's not absolutely confuse that. But I don't blame
him for just being like, nope, Vader's not beating me.

Speaker 1 (02:07:58):
Make it sit. I can see that we still got
do business, bro, still got do business. This is this again,
Sean Michaels was not painting him like no, no, I'm
not giving him any justification here at all, because you
still can do business sewing that. That wasn't your decision
to make. That was miss mc man's decision. Actually, And
if the vice Bickman decided I was gonna win, the

(02:08:19):
damn it, that's what's gonna happen. He's the boss, all right. No,
I'm not giving it.

Speaker 4 (02:08:24):
Can only make your WWF champion looks stupid.

Speaker 1 (02:08:27):
For as many times, nobody remember that man I didn't.
I watched his mask. Didn't even think about that today.

Speaker 4 (02:08:34):
He looked up as hell. He didn't even penn Mankind
right away. Then Mankind had to kick out because Vader
wasn't there. It's like, literally Sean could have kept the
pin instead of this DQ finish. She could have pinned
Mankind and then hit Vader because Vader wasn't even in
the ring by the time Sean Michael stopped the penitent
because it Shaw had to go over and start beating
him up while he's on the apron. It looked bad.

(02:08:56):
When stuff looks bad, I noticed, Yeah, But.

Speaker 1 (02:09:02):
I don't mean Sean got to react in a certain way.
Oh he can't beat me.

Speaker 4 (02:09:05):
Now, what I'm just saying. I'm not saying I would
do it. I'm not saying he's right. I'm just saying
that could have been the Campbell saw the Campbell that
broke the straws straw that broke the Campbell's back where
maybe that was just it for him.

Speaker 1 (02:09:19):
Evince thought Vader winning was gonna sell more tickets. Then
damn it, that's what they should have done. It shouldn't
be Sean Michael's throwing a damn fit and being like
we want to do with him. If it was what's best,
Wait a second, if it's what's best for business, then
you gotta do that. Like like doesn't do that, do

(02:09:39):
what's best for business. He doesn't do that. That's what
I'm saying. That's that's some mistake. It would have bead
like the biggest baby face of the world Sean too
much in the nineties, and Sean would have got away
with whatever he wanted. For whatever reason. He just put
up with and tolerated Shawn Michaels to the nth degree
for whatever reason. I don't know why. It's something like
Sewan Michaels, it was like breaking box office records. I'm

(02:10:02):
not big fan of Shawn Michaels in the ring, but
let's not confuse it like he was breaking box office
records like a Haul Cogan Wards or Steve Austin was.
Let's not confuse it. WWF was very much in second
place when he was on top. So why why did

(02:10:22):
he put up with Shawn michaels nonsense so much? I
don't understand. I don't get it, especially when he had
Brett around like he didn't have anybody else.

Speaker 4 (02:10:30):
Well, in ninety six, he probably had a vision of
where his company was gonna go, and Sean better fit.

Speaker 1 (02:10:37):
That with the attitude Brett, I think as well.

Speaker 4 (02:10:40):
I still think he knew Brett was good, that he
was gonna screw Brad at.

Speaker 1 (02:10:44):
Some point.

Speaker 4 (02:10:46):
In that because Bratt wasn't gonna be cool with that direction.

Speaker 1 (02:10:51):
I do believe you that. I do think he definitely
favored Sean. I mean, clear, he put up with Shawn's
nonsense for so long, right, but I do think he
saw Sean as the future, and Brett wasn't going to
be the guy anymore. It's gonna be Sean, because it wasn't.
Don't wanna be He didn't know Steve was coming. Obviously,
Steve Alston was coming, so it was gonna be Sean
was gonna be his guy. He had breath for a
little while. Did this thing? Now Shawn's turn? But whatever, man,

(02:11:16):
this matching in disqualification.

Speaker 4 (02:11:19):
Finished the Papa.

Speaker 1 (02:11:22):
It is what it is with Paul Bear, Shawn Michael's
fins off Vader by the way, how about that? But
Paul Bear hits him in the back of the head
with the urn. Then Sid comes out to fight Vader.
All hell is breaking loose. The crowd erupts for Sid.
By the way, Okay, he probably had the biggest pop

(02:11:42):
of the night outside of the Undertaker. I'm dead serious.
He Sean Michael's not gett as big as a pap
as Sid.

Speaker 4 (02:11:48):
The Northeast United States loves Sid.

Speaker 1 (02:11:52):
Love Sid again. I love Sid, and I don't know why.
Like great though, people you rupped it when he came
out and then Mankin gets Michael's and the mandible claw.
But the Undertaker comes out of the casket that was
at rings out the entire time. Was here? Where was
did he get in there? Paul Barret old basic caskets,

(02:12:16):
take it, pops out. It's a great visual. It was
great though. That was a great shot. The crowd went
crazy and Barry yelps and that I've put down that
was awesome. It was tremendous because between Paul Bear and
Wah and the crowd's growing and take a sitting up
like oh snap, and you already had Vader, you already

(02:12:38):
had sid and now you got to take a coming
out of the casket that was empty like twenty seconds ago.

Speaker 4 (02:12:44):
Whoa the save cascat mankind came out of.

Speaker 1 (02:12:46):
Like too much. It's a musky track of in nineteen
ninety six. Okay, if I watched this as a kid
in September twenty second, nineteen ninety six, I would have
been seven years old. I would have had a lot
to think about after this. But then the Invader came out.
It didn't sit it and people like it, but didn't
take her how to get in that damn casket.

Speaker 4 (02:13:07):
Damn, that's what I thought I'd be.

Speaker 1 (02:13:09):
What man cond dude to make him that mad? I
know what happened, but I'm just stealing.

Speaker 4 (02:13:14):
From yeah he I guess he uh just hit under
the ring after his magic. But or there was like
a double trap door in the in the casket where
I don't know, like what the people of the audience
have realized he was under the ring. They were paying attention.

Speaker 1 (02:13:37):
Probably I have no idea, so but he still got
the biggest moment, right, the moment of Paul Barret throwing
his arms up like yelping with me, oh my god,
he's there and runs off. Great, it was great. That
was amazing. You can clown ww for certain things. They

(02:13:59):
hit certain things from out of the park and that
that that visual was tremendous and the crowd went crazy, right,
So you can't really knock it too much. If the
crowd goes going to be.

Speaker 4 (02:14:12):
Our video for social media for this episode that includes
that visual, So that's gonna be tremendous.

Speaker 1 (02:14:20):
Right After all that chaos, though, Sean Michaels is announced
as still being the w w F champion and HBK
must pose right and have vent to talk about how
charismatic and flamboyant and clairvoyant he is.

Speaker 4 (02:14:37):
He was talking down to the Philly crowd because Sean
was giving us the stand of ovation, right.

Speaker 1 (02:14:42):
This should be the other way around. It's like, what
do bow down to this god among men?

Speaker 2 (02:14:54):
What?

Speaker 1 (02:14:55):
And again? Now you know why When Shawn my I
was rolling too Survivors series in ninety six, he got
booed out of the building because we had spent several
months by this point hearing Vince McMahon just idolize this man,
Sean Michaels on commentary for months and months and months.

(02:15:16):
It's like, no wonder people hated him by November.

Speaker 4 (02:15:21):
Well, yeah, you even saw on on screen when Sean
was going around the audience and he shook.

Speaker 1 (02:15:26):
Vincent's hand and it's like, unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (02:15:28):
Yeah, it's like even that. I was like, oh, I
get out of here.

Speaker 1 (02:15:31):
Unbelievable. Please. It was a disqualification. He didn't even pen
the guy.

Speaker 4 (02:15:38):
Technically, man Kindshi had a rematch before the Verger live match.

Speaker 1 (02:15:43):
Real talk. It wasn't for late ass Vader Web would
probably would have won recipes of Vader though, Man, he
do He's amazing.

Speaker 4 (02:15:55):
Yes, I'm not saying or not. I was not saying
he shouldn't have been champing. But it makes more sense
to me why Sean would just like get fed up.
And I'm not trying to justify it, but like Vader
can't miss too two big moments in a row, and think.

Speaker 1 (02:16:14):
That Sean can feel how he want to feel. I
don't mean he's not exposed.

Speaker 4 (02:16:20):
He's not making the decisions I'm saying. Vince, you know,
obviously was convinced the Vader wasn't.

Speaker 1 (02:16:25):
Vince was convinced he was the.

Speaker 4 (02:16:27):
Vader wasn't the guy I guess, and obviously Sean was
a big part of that.

Speaker 1 (02:16:30):
But you know, like there it is.

Speaker 4 (02:16:35):
Vader had it, Vader had his spotlight, and he did
not do himself favored.

Speaker 1 (02:16:40):
I'm not giving a pass on that. You don't have
to be like that.

Speaker 4 (02:16:44):
And I still wanted to see Vaders regardless.

Speaker 1 (02:16:47):
Losing him because he showed up late to a spy
and it made me look bad. No, it didn't, still
the champion. You know what made you look bad? The
gutten commentary also made you look bad Night at the night,
crowing about you night at the night. All right, that's
what made you look bad. That was far worse than

(02:17:08):
what happened in this match, believe me. Okay, but with that,
let's wrap it up Episode three thirty eight of The
Straight Shooters. First, I gotta ask you had any final
thoughts on mine games in your house ten or in
your house ten mine games the other way around? Actually,

(02:17:28):
uh no, all right, Well, I will say one match
show pretty much, right, I mean the main event was
worth the tag match.

Speaker 4 (02:17:38):
I thought the tag match, yeah, it was unique because
two heels and then I would and Bulldog were great
with the sunny pitcher and then they went on to
you know, have a good tag team run.

Speaker 1 (02:17:49):
So I like that match.

Speaker 4 (02:17:51):
That has a special place in my hearts. And the
Austin promo it was great Austin.

Speaker 1 (02:17:56):
But moments for the most part, this is part for
the course for WWF at the time, where the undercar
was yeah, but the main events were like, Wow, that
was great. I can't wait to see tomorrow on Raw.
And you're like, oh, wow, they still have fake Diesel
and fake Razor here. I'll just fast forward to the
last half hour and see what happened. What's happened?

Speaker 4 (02:18:18):
Razor came out right at the very end, so oh god,
that was j R's He'll promo. That was like the
main event, So you gotta wait till the next week.

Speaker 1 (02:18:26):
I said, fast forward, like you can do that to
Love TV in next to ninety six, right, damn well,
you couldn't do that.

Speaker 4 (02:18:31):
I was so mad that I didn't take that because
I was like, I had to wait till Saturday, and
I obviously didn't have the Internet, so I had to
wait till Saturday to you know, learn anything about Razor
and Diesel.

Speaker 1 (02:18:43):
Like that whole week. I was like, son of them.
Don't wait nowadays, hit the Google machine up, I'll just go.

Speaker 4 (02:18:49):
I'll just go to Twitter. Sometimes Twitter is better.

Speaker 1 (02:18:52):
Than Google exactly. Don't even need Google. Google be late.
You gotta go on Twitter first.

Speaker 4 (02:18:59):
You You can follow me at Underscore pcone on Twitter.
You can follow us at Shooters Radio on Twitter also
known as X and also at Facebook, Facebook dot com
slash Shooters Radio. If you can catch us at shooterspod
dot com. Lists everywhere we're available. Also check me out
Phillyinfluencer dot com. You can check this podcast out at

(02:19:22):
foxphl Gambler dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:19:25):
There you go. You can check me out at Vaughan M.
Johnson on X. You can check us out on Patreon,
Patreon dot com slash Shooters Shooters Radio. Still there, right, yep,
there we go, So check us out there. If you
want to request a future deep dive, feel free to
do it. Go over to Patreon, put it in a request,

(02:19:46):
we will fulfill it in. You can make a cameo
on the show again Patreon dot com Slash Shooters Radio,
But until next time for Nick Pocone, I am von
On Johnson. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you again
next week. Hey, cleavage, wake up the should on? Oh yeah,
Jiggy

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}CLASSIC EPISODE: WWF In Your House: Mind Games (Sept. '96) Deep Dive

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

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CLASSIC EPISODE: WWF In Your House: Mind Games (Sept. '96) Deep Dive

Dateline NBC