July 24, 2025 • 52 mins
01 The Limey and Editing Choices
Vanessa and Eric embark on a journey into the world of films with a new Strange Aeons Radio series, The Filmmaker's Forge.
In this premiere episode, they delve into the art of editing and explore the concept of taking risks in editing and the creative process.
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Unknown (00:00):
We're going to talk about what this is. Oh, I'm
(00:04):
sorry, did I break yourconcentration? Somewhere between
science and superstition, wehave such sites to show you,
(00:28):
strange eons. Hello. This is alittle bit different take on
strange eons. Radio. Regularlisteners know that we've gone
to two episodes two episodes amonth now, every other week. And
Vanessa and I are thinking,well, let's talk about some
other stuff. So we're going totalk about conceptual editing in
(00:54):
a film, and how it doesn't haveto be as straightforward as you
think. Why Vanessa, why do youthink you're good for talking
about thiswell as an editor. So I've been
editing as of this year, 20years now, and definitely have
done the whole like, Okay, howdo we how do we reconfigure
(01:16):
this? Are there ways that we canedit something a little bit
differently, or, you know, makesomething fresher, or make
something cooler. You know,editing is a huge part of any
story process. And it, it'sbasically the third version of
the film. It's, it's the right,it's, it's written, it's
directed, and then afterwards,it's edited, it's put together.
(01:38):
That's the final moment we getto take something and put our
creative spin on it and try totell a cool story with it. So
I'm really psyched to get anopportunity to look at a film
through this lens and see seewhat I can contribute to this
film that Eric has picked for usthis week
(01:59):
be a little bit official now,then I'm Eric. That's Vanessa.
Hello, there we go. I pickedthis one. Oh, and I've also
done, I've edited a coupledocumentaries, a couple
features, a ton of shorts. I'vetaught editing classes and
(02:21):
programs. So what it's worthdone some editing stuff.
Excellent, excellent. And youknow, if this goes well, maybe
we'll look at some other thingsin film, because we've both
created our own stuff, maybe notwriting. We'd need Kelly for
that, at leastfor me. Yeah, I think that he's
(02:43):
definitely expert in thatparticular portion of this. But
yeah, definitely Eric and I havevery similar mindset when it
comes to looking at films fromthe technical perspective of
post production. And yeah, it'scool to have a nerd friend of
that genre before we jump in. Isthere a favorite editing
(03:04):
software or tool that you liketo use?
Oh, get technical right away. Ihave used, I used Final Cut till
they became Final Cut X. Andlike many editors, I went, this
is weird. I don't feel likerelearning how to edit
digitally. And I actually myfirst editing job way, way back
(03:27):
when, was three quarter inch,reel to reel, little VHS machine
down, plugging in me, but andthen a program around for a
while that's not around anymore,called liquid, because I think
Adobe bottom and I I've alsoedited on premiere, and about
three or four years ago, I saidI don't feel like playing a
(03:48):
monthly fee for premiere, so Iwent to DaVinci Resolve, and I
freaking love it. That does somuch. It's free to start if you
want. It's like 250 to get thestudio version for life. All
updates free forever, and they,when they do an update, they
(04:08):
don't screw around. Theyactually really do some work.
But, you know, I'd imagine, as apro, you've found one that
definitely have learned all thenicks and crannies about to keep
using,yeah, so it's tough. So I, like
you, learned on Final Cut, Istarted on, I don't know if it's
four or five, and then they wentup to x. And I don't know if you
(04:32):
remember this, Eric, but whenthey went to x, the biggest
problem I had with it was anylittle thing you wanted to do,
like export to a Pro Res, it wasan add on fee. So using any
transit was an add on fee, yeah.
So they just did a big old fufor their core audience. They
(04:53):
tried to make it for any user.
They wanted to dumb it down alot at the time they wanted.
Prosumers rather thanprofessional users. And so that
was the point where the companyI was with at that time, which
was Technicolor, started movingover to premiere. I've since
been on premiere. I can do avid.
(05:15):
I've worked on TV and film andavid, that's typically still
being used. I hate it. I hateit. Yeah, it's not. I've used it
very, very tight. I haven't usedit. I've sat in with somebody
using it, and it's no, I'm good,yeah, people
don't want to leave it becauseit's so unintuitive that it is
such a high bar to learn it,that once you learn it, you
(05:39):
don't want to do anything elseyou're like, I learned this one
horrific piece of software I amdone. Thank you very much. I am
not a fan of it. It's like everyone click thing for premiere is
at least three steps in AVIDhowever, Premier is now putting
out an AI version that they areforcing everyone to
(06:01):
automatically be on unless youopt out. So, yeah, they're doing
some really iffy stuff. So Imight be looking more and more
towards resolve. I've beenputting it off. It's
understandable,yeah. I mean, it's premiere for
years.
Yeah, I just know it so well. Iknow it's weirdness and it's not
perfect, but I just know it sowell.
(06:24):
Yeah, another weird I'll tossout for selling point of Da
Vinci and why I like it so much.
Everything's in one program. Ifyou want to edit, like Final Cut
X, it's actually in there thatis a window that has that style
of editing. And there's theregular premiere editing. And
obviously it's not astechnically big as after
(06:47):
effects, but they have a prettygood program of that. And I edit
all of our audio in there aswell. And of course, color
correction is like, that's wherethey've got their money there
all the film. It's big name, andit's fun. It's crazy
complicated. That's thecomplicated one in there. It's
(07:08):
like, my god, but in the early90s, it was a $200,000 program,
so when it first started to hitjust or midnight. Anyways,
yeah, I wonder why they decidedto go free, just to just because
they really want to dominate themarket.
They sell the gear. They sell.
They make their money selling,selling audio boards and audio
(07:30):
like entire audio rooms and andthey have cameras and they have
video like you can get built indesks of their stuff. Those are
expensive. That's where theymake their money, 10s of 1000s
of dollars for some of them. Butanyways, so what are we talking
(07:55):
about? Do you remember whatmovie I do?
I remember that we are talkingabout the amazing film from 1999
the limey.
(08:16):
My name's Wilson.
You wrote me about my daughter,this bloke, she was bunked up
with Terry Valentine. What's shegot to say for himself?
You tell him, get yourgift while I'm after you tell
(08:36):
him I'm coming.
Tell him I'm coming.
Jenny never told you about herdad. What dad? When it was in
prison for nine years,he was released last month,
as long as nobody can connectenemy to me, I won't
(09:02):
Get to get what I'm after tillthe day.
(09:22):
The I guess I did the RottenTomatoes specifically because I
was interested how differentthey are. The reviewers and
stuff hit 92 the general publicis 78 Wow. But anyways, yeah,
this was directed by that crazyfilmmaker Steven Soderbergh.
(09:43):
What are some of your favoriteSoderbergh films? Oh, gosh,
I like a lot of his stuff. Butthen at the same time, it's
funny, I thought I liked tons,and then I looked back through
stuff and was like, I also don'treally. Care about tons of them.
Like, I haven't seen Logan luckyChase, fine, but I have recently
(10:07):
talked about black bag. He didKimmy, which was really
interesting presence I just saw,which was great magic. Mike, so,
okay, the place. Man, he'severywhere, yeah, and then,
like, Erin Brockovich isincredible. I actually have not
seen sex laws in videotape, butit's pretty bad. I would love
(10:29):
to,yeah. And I enjoy oceans 11. I
think it's an entirely funpopcorn kind of movie. And Kafka
is wild, really, yeah, out ofsight is pretty good. And of
course, traffic is his Oscarwinning one written by LEM
Dobbs, who wrote a movie I justtalked about Dark City.
(10:51):
Oh yeah. Oh crazy. Okay,so and the score, hard way,
stuff like that. And edited by,edited by oh my gosh, I've lost
Sarah black, absolutely so Sarahflack has done she did, lost in
translation. She recently, morerecently, did Priscilla, which I
(11:14):
didn't see, but I heard a lot ofgood things about, um, she's got
37 editing credits, so she'sbeen around for a minute. And
also, Dave Chappelle, blockparty. Very interesting,
sure. And come on, Book ofShadows. Blair Witch, too. Oh,
(11:36):
she didn't write it. So, youknow, I can hold that against
her. The main actor in this thelimey is Terence Stamp, who is
wonderful in the movie you hatedlast night in Soho or didn't
like, didn't hate, but didn't, Ididn't hate it at all. I didn't
hate it. It was just there wasthere was a thing about the
culture where it was out oftouch. But it was a good movie.
(11:57):
It was a good movie.
He's in one that I find aridiculously underrated movie
about Mickey movies, which isbofinger.
Oh yeah. I loved bofinger. Yeah.
That was a great film,fun film, and, you know, a crap
ton of stuff. Also a littleknown actor, Peter Fonda.
Oh yeah. Peter Fonda, when Ifirst saw him pop up in this
(12:18):
one, was like, Really, you havevery white teeth, whoever you
are. And I kind of hovered mymouse over the the Amazon
screen. It was like, Oh, shoot.
All right,yeah, he does look different
from like, if you've only seenhim, an easy writer, or some of
those films, and Leslie andWarren, who's in the amazing,
(12:40):
wonderful clue.
I It's been so long since I'veseen clue. I know you love that
movie, though. Yeah.
GREAT film. Victor Victoria,another really good movie, and
let's see Lewis Gosman. Guzman,yeah. Luis Guzman,
really excited to see him pop upin this. I mean, I think it's a
(13:04):
joy every time you get LuisGuzman and he's, I don't know,
he brings a lot of energy tothis film.
So, yeah, he really does. Imean, it's, you know, he had his
dumb and dumber and Harry metLloyd moment. But he's
definitely an actor's actor inthat sure pay me. I'll give it a
shot. And he's doesn't matterwhat he's in, he's going to be
good. This is a deep talk on thefilm. So if you haven't seen it
(13:27):
and you're curious about whatwe're going to talk about, go
watch it. It's on Prime withouta rental, and a few other places
for rental. We're definitelygoing to talk about all kinds of
stuff that happens in it. Iwould think.
So, yeah, so why did you pickthis movie before we jump in?
Because, I mean, I now kind ofget it because I haven't seen it
(13:51):
before, but you have seen it. Sowhat was it about this that,
like, really piqued yourinterest? It
99 so I'd been pre done somemusic videos. I've done some
some stuff by then, some shorts,but not a lot. But watching this
warped my thinking of editing.
Altered the thinking idea of TheABCs of editing, of the cut
(14:14):
here, cut there. Do this, makeeverything easily
understandable. You know, makesure you go from point A to
point B, get in and out as quickas you can. You know, all the
things of editing, and boy, itturns out on its head in a lot
of scenes, not all the time.
(14:35):
There's plenty of times whereit's really straightforward.
They do some interesting stuff.
What did you think on your firstviewing?
Um, you know, it took me aminute to kind of work out what,
like, what this style was, andkind of like where we were, and
(14:56):
I don't know like it, I was sortof like, okay, trying to come to
grip. With it. But it was thissort of mix of like, unconscious
and so natural with the way thatit is that even though we're
like, he'll be talking toanother person, and then all of
a sudden we are in a shot of himsitting alone on train or
sitting in a hotel room, orlooking at something, or in a
(15:18):
memory, like it's just it feelsso natural that it really
doesn't jar you in the way thata lot of creative 1999 editing
will.
That's a strong year for editdecisions. That's
true matrix and all that stuff.
Yeah, if you were to linearlytell this story in its regular
fashion, it would be okay. Yes,because it's a very, very basic
(15:42):
revenge story. Yeah, guys,daughter gets killed, he goes to
find out who did it, and heexacts his revenge eventually,
after things happen.
But yeah, that's 100% Yeah, aguy from, you know, a Cockney, a
(16:04):
Cockney bro, comes to LA tofigure out what happened to his
daughter. And kind of, yeah,like a bit of a who done it in
the Hollywood Hills, and, yeah,in and out.
It's sort of like memento, or ifyou flipped Memento and watched
it in order. It would still be apretty good film, but it would
(16:24):
definitely not. It would nottell the right story. Yeah,
let's see how to dive in. Sincethis is one of our first we'll
fumble along in nice littleways.
I did like the the allblack at the beginning, where
it's just all black, and youstart to hear him speak, tell
me, tell me.
(16:53):
Tell me about Jenny. That is aneat way to go. I mean, maybe
I'm overthinking this, but it'sa neat way to go. What you see
isn't as important as what youhear, right? And a lot of in a
lot of segments of this movie,which is very true, I think it
might be easier if we just kindof jump around a little bit
(17:15):
Sure,yeah, like the movie did much
like the movie? Yeah. Yeah. Ithink it was something that they
started doing pretty early onthat I really loved was so the
main character's name is Wilson.
When he arrives in LA we startwith him at the airport, we
(17:36):
almost immediately start cuttingto just these like images, these
very abstract images of hisdaughter, and we don't really
know the context of them. We seeher kind of looking at him
through different moments in herlife, and she always looks like
a little displeased or a littlelike judgy or a little like you
(17:56):
can tell the relationship is notstrong, and it's such a good
representation of showing andnot telling where the rest of
the film is, then going to spendtime filling in some blanks for
you. And yeah, I just, I reallylove that choice of like, it
just brings a lot of intrigue.
Like, okay, who is this person?
And at first it's like, Is ithis daughter? Is it his? You
(18:18):
know, who is this girl to him?
And then you find out it is hisdeceased daughter. I
(18:40):
hmm, yeah, yeah. It's a greatway to do it too, because as the
movie moves forward, you realizehim and his daughter really
didn't have a very goodrelationship at all much upon
period. And the idea, because ifyou're going to think back to
people that mean to you and loveto you. Mean something to you.
(19:02):
Generally, you might think ofthe happier stuff a little bit
more. And so it feels a littleweird to see her glaring at them
on the phone, or theshot at the beach they use a lot
with the lightshowing her face, yeah, where
it's almost like I was kind oftrying to figure out, like, was
he, like, shining the light onher face to, like, mess with
her? Or, like, what is it?
(19:23):
Because she was like, Ah, myeyes, but yeah, definitely like
her on the phone. I feel likethere's this, the way that it's,
it's portrayed, is it's almostlike he can't get this guilt,
this feeling of like, I don'tguilt, or like, a knees in the
relationship, out of his head.
And there's, she's aprofessional criminal who spent
a lot of time in and out of thethe British prison system at His
(19:45):
Majesty service, and she shereally did not want him to be
engaged in any criminalactivities. So you do get this
sort of you. Yeah, butting headsgoing on. And then he meets the
guy that sent him the letter,which is Guzman, but no
(20:05):
indication of why he sent theletter initially. So, I mean, it
turns out to be kind of basictoo, which, again, goes to the
this is a better story becauseof the way it's told.
The editing is great with this,because you can tell that there
are shots that would have beennormally left on the cutting
room floor where they shotthings in, like a side shot and
(20:29):
a straight on shot and and theway that it's cut when he first
meets this guy, which is playedby Louise Guzman, is you kind of
almost are like, is he tellingthe truth? What was this guy to
her like? Because the waythey're using the the multiple
takes, it's almost like he sayscertain lines with different
(20:49):
emphasis when they re show it,and you're like, oh, Was he
lying that first time? Or, youknow, what? What does he mean
where there was an accident and,you know, are they just friends?
Did they How did they need, youknow, who's who's this guy to
her? And I think that buildingup that suspicion through these
weird takes that are alteringreally helps you get in the
(21:13):
mindset of Wilson, yeah,yeah. I think it's great. The
and the the stuff that isn'tcoming from the lie me directly,
but is more like when Guzman'stelling him stuff has these
great blue shading over the top,almost like it's shot through a
blue gel. And it's it's fillingin blanks for him, and knowing
(21:36):
that that is not what he'sremembering, because he wasn't,
obviously, isn't involved inthose events.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
And there's, and it's so um,unreliable to these, the way
that these like strange shotsthat are often, you know, like I
said, we'll be sitting in onescene, and then we'll be seeing
(21:58):
scenes, you know stuff fromfuture scenes or past scenes, or
his past memories. And it's veryinteresting, because sometimes
it isn't what happens. A lot oftimes it is what is going to
happen, or you're getting alittle hints of what's about to
occur as he's following leads.
(22:19):
So the the next step aftermeeting Luis Guzman is finding
out some thugs that she mighthave been involved with. And he
goes to check in on thiswarehouse and the guys, you
know, he confronts these guys,and they rough him up a little,
and then he proceeds To returnto the warehouse and murder them
(22:39):
all. YouYou tell him, You tell him I'm
(23:02):
coming. Tell him I'm fuckingcoming.
But the way it's told is we getthese little hints of, like,
he's in the car, he he's, youknow, picking up a business
card. We see a guy. We see somethugs, and you know, him getting
beat up, and then, and then, youknow, and then we see a gun and
(23:26):
but it's all being told at thesame time as he's entering the
building. Sothere's another great little
moment in that one when the whenhe gets beat down a little bit,
and the lead guy there leans into tell him something, and it's
shot with these fades, asopposed to him just leaning in.
So it feels like whatever he'ssaying is awful, like you
(23:47):
mentioned it already the sceneto scene. It goes throughout the
movie where it's not get in car,drive, arrive at destination.
It's get in car, see wheredestination might be going to
be, and then, then he's thinkingback about something that
already happened, and then it'swild. But I don't I didn't feel
lost,no, no, same. I didn't feel like
(24:11):
I was watching a college levelexperimental film, right, which
is so easy to fall into thetraps of, when it's you're doing
artsy for art's sake, it feltlike, okay, like this is an
older guy. He's lived a prettyfull life, like his mind is
wandering. He's like, you know,he's also pretty clever. He's
(24:33):
thinking ahead about things.
Like he's just skipping around,just like our brains do, and so
it's just very easy to followthat process. Yeah,
I agree. You know, I think weshould do a little break, like
we normally do about now, showsome weird commercial. Come
(24:56):
back, so we'll be back in justsick. Yeah. I
when it comes to postproduction, the editing and
packaging of a commercial, ITVstands alone in the technical
(25:19):
spotlight, film commercials andmany video tape productions are
electronically assembledutilizing the Ampex ra 4000
random access programmer. Thisis known as time code post
production. In the case of film,the original footage is
processed in house and thentransferred to two inch video
(25:40):
tape masters and a three quarterinch video cassette work print
copy during the transfer, eachvideo frame is encoded with an
electronic address consisting ofhours, minutes, seconds and
frames. An editor will then usethe video cassette copy to
(26:01):
electronically cut theequivalent of a film work print.
This is called offline editing.
The next link comes up and itstarts over here. Again, a log
of all scene addresses and editpoints is kept for use during
the final assembly. Finalassembly of the spot is
(26:23):
completed by log addresses beingentered into the RA 4000 the RA
4000 searches for the exactscenes and then electronically
performs the edits anddissolves.
The results a precisely edited,technically clean product. The
(26:46):
advantages to the advertiser,many time consuming delays
caused by having to sendcommercials off to a film lab
for printing and special effectsare eliminated. Finished spots
are completed in house, at asaving of both time and money
while enhancing quality.
(27:13):
And we are back. So yeah, we arediscussing the limey and it's
crazy editing style. Eric and Ias professional editors are
breaking this down, checking itout. And Eric tell me, there is
there a scene that really stuckout for you? Is there something
that really like, you know,raptures your attention in this
(27:34):
film?
There was one that I saw thefilm, and then I don't remember.
Re watching it again for years,maybe until last week, and a
scene that stuck with me thewhole time through was when he
first goes to see Leslie andWarren. And it's a longer
segment, but he he's at thegate, and she's locked the gate
(27:56):
so he can't come in, and they'retalking back and forth. I
You're Jenny's father.
Why did you come here?
That'd be nice to have a chatwith you. That's all No.
(28:20):
Why did you come hereget a few things sorted out.
Been busy, have youhow'd you mean,
I heard you were what is thatadorable expression at her
majesty's pleasure?
It was the bars. Then.
(28:40):
What was it? Wembley Stadium jobthat was it? Right? Pink Floyd
concert receipts,earning interest in an offshore
account. Tidy little premium perannum,
security like that can't bebought.
Must be more comforting thanhaving a daughter to greet you,
(29:03):
boy, then she can let me in.
You can call me again, andit goes back and forth. And it
is not, it is not wide,overshot, overshot, close up,
close up at all, and it was sointeresting, or the really,
really abstract thing thathappens next is when he tells
(29:24):
her a story, and the story, thevocal never changes, but he's
telling the same story at herplace, and then out on a wharf
or something, and Then, I think,at a restaurant or coffee, yeah,
but the story is perfectlylinear, but the video jumps to
different locations. I think itworks. So cool. Do you remember
(29:50):
that what I'm talking aboutthere? Yeah, 100% in fact, when,
when I was watching that, I feltlike it reminds me so much of
like hanging out with a friend Ihave. Seen in a while, or going
on a date or something, andyou're, you're trying to explain
something about your life, andit is like you're, you're
spending this whole evening withsomebody, and you're, like,
relaying this stuff aboutyourself. And, you know, who
(30:12):
knows when you said what? But itjust felt like, Okay, we get
this concept that they spentthis huge amount of time
together, catching, you know,learning who one another are
are. She is the acting teacher,slash best friend of his
daughter,yeah, something like that. Yeah,
definitely his teacher, butyeah, so she definitely knows
(30:34):
her Yeah, yeah. And the teacheralso knows they have a really
rocky relationship, so there's alot of judgment from her on this
guy, but then they have thisweird, like, natural. I want to
say chemistry, but I don't wantto say it's romantic. It's just
sortof a no, it's definitely not.
You're right, it's not.
But, yeah, that definitelystruck me too, where I was like,
(30:55):
I love when I love that kind ofediting, where it's match cuts,
but it was match audio and notmatch cuts. It was like
distinctly unmatched cuts withaudio that just brings us
through, yeah, this, this storythat he's playing,
yeah. I just thought that wasreally, really cool, another
(31:16):
really interesting editingmoment. Or did you have a
favorite segment like that thathits you real
strong. I think at the it's,it's probably near the end, so I
don't know if I if we want tojump all the way there or not.
Well,there's another one then that I
thought was really cool is whenhe goes to the party for Peter
Fonda's house, and he starts tovisualize killing him. Yes,
(31:45):
the unreliable one, yeah, itstarts off, and everything's
slowed down, and the audio isreally low, and he goes in, and
it gets loud when he shoots theguy, but then you realize, Oh,
that wasn't real. So it speedsup just a little bit, and it
gets a little bit louder, and heshoots him a little more
violently, yeah. And then goesback again, and it does it one
(32:06):
more time where it's full partyvolume, yeah, the most violent
shooting of the three. So it'sall like, Oh, this is when you
oh no, he doesn't actually Wow.
And I was like, Is this real? Isthis not real? Because all the
other ones previously had been,as far as we know, as an
(32:29):
audience, real, and this onewas, but you had that clue that
from that audio change of volumeand just rhythm, it did feel
like, okay, maybe he's imaginingthis one. And the first time he
gets him in the chest, and thesecond time he shoots him, and
he kind of misses and gets himin like, the shoulder, yeah,
right. And then the last timegets him square in the head, and
(32:52):
get to see the brains flyingout. I think maybe I couldn't
inserted that, but it was very,very cool, just like seeing kind
of his processing. And then, ofcourse, he's we watched him go
in, and the tension builds, andyou're like, Oh my God, he's
gonna murder this guy. And LuisGuzman puts, I don't know if
this guy's the actual charactername, but he stops him. He's
(33:14):
like, Hey, man, pull it back.
First. Christopher cross album,yeah, yeah, wow. That record
changed my mind.
This is not gonna happen. Yeah,it's really good. Their
relationship is so cool. It's sounique, because they're really
(33:38):
friendly in this one thing. Butyou know is it almost feels like
as soon as he leaves, they'renever going to talk again, this
event, this happening, they'recompletely together. Yeah,
really cool. Yeah.
I think that leads me to, likeone thing that did kind of throw
(33:59):
me off, and I wasn't sure whatyou made of it. A lot of it, I
felt like, Okay, I'm inside ofhis head, and that's why we're
skipping around. But then westarted doing that with other
characters, like the Hitman thatthe security for the the actor
slash boyfriend of his daughter,um, sends out some hitmen to go
(34:24):
after him, and then we havethis, like, sort of telling of
them in the bar, hanging outplaying pool, and it does a
skipping time thing with them.
And I was like, I wonder whywe're doing it with other
characters. And then we do itwith Luis Guzman as well. When
he's we see him cooking at arestaurant, and then he leaves,
and then we see him driving thecar. So clearly, he's been asked
to, you know, put his life onhold and drive this guy around
(34:47):
to help him get revenge. Butyeah, I was trying to work out,
like, why other characters werealso going through this thing,
and I couldn't quite feel.
Figure it out.
I have a theory on that, and Idon't know if it plays into your
end concept, but let's see whatelse I had here. Well, honestly,
(35:13):
as the But another interestingthing in the movie is it starts
off really erratic, and the morethe story comes together, the
more you meet all thecharacters, the more everything
begins. It becomes less erraticin its editing and a little more
traditional. Oh, interesting.
But still have a theory on that.
(35:36):
But let's but why not? Let'stalk about what your favorite
segment was, even if it is theend,
yeah, so at the end, I mean, thewhole, the whole story is, of
course, him like trying to findthe person responsible for his
daughter's death. He finds thismusic producer, guy who was
dating her, and somehow seems tobe behind it. He's not exactly
(35:59):
sure how, but he's going to killhim, he's decided. And at the
very end there, he catches upwith the guy. He's they've taken
out all of his security, slashhis security has been taken out
by his other security. It's ahuge chaotic mess. There were
too many people involved andgetting greedy and making poor
(36:21):
decisions. So in the end, hereally didn't have to do that
much work. He just had to showup. And he's chasing this guy
down the beach at night. And theguy is just a weaselly,
worthless guy. He's running. Hetrips on a rock, he gets a
compound fracture. He's justsort of, you know, back, back,
crawling on the ground,slithering around, and he
(36:43):
finally tells him the story. Youknow, he's he the dad says, Tell
me about Jenny. Tell me.
Tell me about Jenny.
Tell me about Jenny. Tell meabout Jenny.
(37:06):
I needed money.
I would have given her anythingshe wanted, but she said she
found out about my deal. Shetried to stop me. She said she
was gonna turn me in. She saidshe was here to call the cops. I
couldn't stop it. It alreadyhappened. It was over. She was
(37:28):
going to call the cops. Shemeant it. She had the phone in
her head. She was here to callthe cops.
She meant it. I couldn't stopit.
I couldn't do anything.
(37:57):
It's cool because we see theseflashbacks to her as a kid, and
we've already been told by himthat she hated him going out on
all these jobs. So she wouldfake call the police, or she'd
say, Oh, I got them on the line,and she was never, ever, ever
going to actually do it becauseshe loved him, and she was never
that kind of person, but shewanted to call him out on his
(38:20):
behavior, and she wanted to showa tough front. So in that
moment, he realizes that she'sdead because of something he
did. And I think that all thatwork of showing her as a kid
suddenly comes to a head in thatscene, and it's so just
beautiful. And he just drops theguy and is like, alright, I
(38:43):
don't need you. I don't need tokill you. Now it you know, your
guy's life is ruined no matterwhat, like this dude, you can't
come back from whatever has justoccurred. He doesn't have to do
anything to him, and he's notworth it,
right? So wouldn't be satisfyingto kill this guy.
Would not be satisfied to killthis guy. And he'd already told
some story too, about trying toget revenge for some guy who put
(39:06):
him away the third time he wasin prison and found him on a
park bench and could havemurdered him and decided not to.
So it it reflects that momenttoo. You know, without even him
saying, Hey, you're not worth itto me, he's not saying anything.
He's not to say, oh my, mydaughter's dead, because it's my
fault. We already have all ofthis information as an audience
(39:28):
member through these weirdflashbacks, and so I think they
just did such a beautiful job,and that scene just brought it
all home.
Yes, agreed. Here's my theory.
It comes a little later thanthat. So see the whole movie,
it's been flashbacking to himsitting on a plane, yeah, and
the implication is he, that'shim flying Yeah. The end you
(39:49):
find out that's him flying home,yeah, which makes me think,
because in the shots on theplane, you. He's reacting. He
reacts to what's happening inthe movie. I think he's
remembering everything as heflies back, he's thinking back
to what he's what he wentthrough and what he went to,
(40:12):
which would explain why he mighthave memories of like when he
called the guy in the restaurantand he came out of the back
room, he might go, that'sprobably what it looked like
when he after I called him, orthat's why he when there's a
scene, forgot which one it was,there's something with his
daughter, and it cuts betweenhim, it happening, and then him,
(40:33):
very distinctly reacting to whathappened, then cuts back to her,
and that then cuts back to him,and him and him reacting
differently to what had happenedthe second time around. So for
those reactions, he would havehad to know what had happened,
or it wouldn't have been able toit'd just be him making funny
(40:54):
faces on a plane as he fliesover to LA. I think that's part
of the reason it's sold sounusually.
Oh, interesting. Wow, yeah. Ithink there's something to that
for sure, yeah, because it justhas that really sporadic feeling
(41:18):
of randomness. And he very wellcould be like, oh yeah. And
these weird assassin guys showedup. Who fucking knows what
they're about.
When you think about thingslike, I'm going to use a really
stupid analogy, because I'm asports fan, but if you think
about a sports game, you've seenpictures. But if you're at the
(41:41):
game, you don't know what theguys are doing in the hall
before they run out to thecrowd, but you picture in your
head, oh, this might be whatthey're doing. That'd be cool,
yeah, interesting little quirkslike that. Like, I don't
remember driving a to b, but Ido remember driving past this
factory. I almost rewatched itimmediately going order factor,
(42:04):
but I just didn't have so I'ddefinitely be watching it again
soon.
Yeah, I would definitely beinterested in watching this the
second time through, and seeingwhat new I get out of it from
from that because I feel likethere's a lot more to dig
through once you know where it'swhere it's going, and you know
that being said. You know, foranybody who is interested in
(42:27):
watching it, it is so fun. Thewriting, like, there are just
lines in there that are, like,just incredibly funny or random
or like, thoughtful. I just, Ilove his weird cockney slamming,
cockney, rhyming slang, yes,yes, like butchers, and going to
(42:50):
have a, I think he said, like aChina, and it's like, because
they mean different things. It'slike, I'm going to have a
butchers, which means, lookaround, because butcher
something, something whichrhymes with the look around it.
It's a whole thing. Like, Ilived in London for a long time.
It's a whole freaking thing. Inever fully could understand it,
but it's, it's very cool howpeople are reacting to him,
(43:12):
like, I don't know what you'resaying,
even in context, I don't knowwhat you mean. So, yeah, one
thing we didn't mention that waspretty interesting. Was footage
from the movie 1967 film, poorcow. This
is what I was going to ask youabout as well, because we have
these flashbacks to him as awhen he's married, and him and
(43:37):
his wife and like his friends.
And I'm like, I think this ishim. I think this is good. Yeah,
I could. I was like, What isthis? Did they just get a really
good look like, and then film iton, like, 16 or, like, what is
this? I'mlooking at is, man, I It's
called poor cow. I said it's 67and it works. I mean, it very
(43:57):
much fits a young guy in love,and then there's a judge in
there at one point, and scenesthat may have nothing to do with
crime in the film itself, butlooks like it could be somebody
doing something. Apparently,when he was doing that,
Soderbergh did not know what hewanted to use, so he went to
(44:19):
Warner Brothers and said, I justwant to license the movie and
use whatever parts I need as Ineed them. And they said no
initially. And he said, If Idon't have full access, I'm just
not going to make this film. Hehad it going on, and they're
like, Okay, fine, use whateveryou want.
(44:43):
And the band, they used itreally well.
They did a great job that was sobeautifully written. And just
yeah, like it. It really helpsbring a lot of it to life,
because it gives that extrapiece of nostalgia and memory
and. Yeah, and there are a fewlines throughout this film about
nostalgia and memory, where themusic producer is famous for
(45:08):
bringing 1960 style music thatpeople are starting to kind of
sound like, I'm guessing, thesort of Oasis period to light
and making huge amounts of moneyoff of this style. And then he
is telling his new girlfriend,his new like, gorgeous actress
girlfriend, far too young forhim, about, you know, it's, it
(45:31):
was all about the 60s. Reallyjust took place in 1966 and 1967
and it was a world that was likea dream that, you know, as a
place that doesn't exist, butexcept for in your mind. And
that's what the 60s were. Andit's just this cool, like,
strange thing about we the waywe remember, and the the life we
(45:54):
live through, that I don't know.
It's neat.
I like that. No, that's reallygood. What he was saying. I was
kind of looking up whatSoderberg was doing around that
time. He'd done out of sightjust before, and he was about to
do Brockovich traffic in oceans11, so he was on the verge of
exploding.
Yeah, I read an article with himtalking about the process for
(46:18):
this, which I know we can getinto in a minute. Um, he talked
about he got nominated for allthese awards for out of sight,
and they called him, but he wasso stressed out over this movie
that he just did not care. Hewas just like, I don't care. My
life is in a really bad placeright now, and my brain is
somewhere else. So, yeah, so doyou want to walk us through kind
(46:39):
of why this movie is cut the wayit is. Quick, quick
sidebar, real quick. Kevin KenLoach was the director of poor
cow. Oh man. Ken Loach, wow,okay, yeah, I read a little bit
into that of what it might havebeen, and see if you've read the
same thing or somethingdifferent. But that they made
it, they made the movie, theyfinished it, and they realized
(47:05):
this could be a lot better.
This is, like we were sayingearlier, this is kind of a
generic, straightforward revengemovie. And so he went back into
the editing bay. I wasoriginally prepared to give a
lot of credit to his editor,yeah, who obviously is very
(47:26):
important. But reading further,it sounded like it was a lot of
him, yeah. And, I mean, sir, I'msure Sarah contributed greatly,
because that's impossible notto, you know, basically editing
like that is largely two peoplesitting in the room.
So who really contributedwill never really be known by
(47:48):
anybody other than the two ofthem. 100%
Yeah, the article I read was himreflecting back on it, what
right before the HD release ofit. And him saying that when
they put out the linear cut andstart showing it, they were
like, this movie sucks. Like,this movie is not a movie. It's
(48:10):
not an interesting movie. Thismovie sucks. And he was like, we
took it back. He said, I want tosay we recut it, but we
completely started from zero andtried to work out, like, and I
don't know what that processlooked like, as far as how they
came to come to the conclusionof, I know that they re shot a
bunch of stuff that was thatkind of thinking, spacey stuff,
(48:34):
where it's like just looking atsome wind chimes, or just, they
shot a lot of extra pieces thatthey could assemble into it, but
that they it was a disaster,like this film was going to be
disaster, and so they saved itvia the strange choices in this
edit.
(48:55):
And in the end, you know,whoever did the most really
doesn't matter. The fact is,they came together and made a
really, really interesting filmthat like you, like you just
said there, I think I have noproblem believing if they screen
this as a linear storyline, it'dbe like,
Fine, you guys showing anythingelse today.
(49:19):
This has not fulfilled my movieneeds.
Yeah, I think I've heard itcompared to cubism, but which
makes a lot of sense to me, Ilike that. I think it's really
cool in the way that it's verytelling about our process as
editors. Because even thoughthis is a very extreme example
(49:43):
of that we are often forced tomake problem solving decisions.
Where the number of times I'vehad a director who said, Hey,
you got to use this shot.
Where's this shot? We spent allday on the shot. And I'm like,
shot doesn't exist. Bro, I don'tknow what to tell you. Gonna
look, look through the footageagain. I'm like, I've looked
literally 10 times, but I willlook 11, you know, and gone
(50:05):
piece by piece by piece. Andlike, I'm sorry you didn't, you
didn't do it. It's not in thecan or they think something
looks great, and it's actually,it was shaking the whole time.
I think this is a fundiscussion. I like talking
editing with you. I think it'spretty cool. Yeah, did it work
(50:25):
for you? Something else we cando again in the future? Maybe?
Yeah, definitely. I think thatthese will be, like, really cool
little like, I like these, like,little vignettes and things that
we can try out. We candefinitely do discussions of,
you know, whatever, whetherthat's editing, whether that's,
you know, picking differentthings apart, or I'm very keen.
(50:49):
I'm very, very Yeah, if youliked listening to this great
the usual spiel of, thanks forshare us around. Let us know if
this was dumb. I only likeKelly, fine.
I really like Kelly too. Whatthe heck? Bring back Kelly?
(51:09):
Okay, what would Kelly do?
There's a bumper sticker.
WW, KD,I'm glad we did this, and we'll
do it again sometime, if peoplelike it, if you don't like it,
we might do it again anyways,because we like talking movies.
Wesure do. Yeah. Thank you guys so
much for tuning in and checkingus out. You know, per usual,
(51:29):
please share us around. Jump onFacebook. Say hey, let us know
what you think of it. Let usknow if you have any ideas that
you would like to check out. Andalso, of course, feel free to
donate money our way so we cancontinue to do these awesome
things. Eric, how do we getmoney into our fine little
coffers?
(51:53):
I've got PayPal, and we've got,buy me a pizza, buy me a coffee.
Technically, the PayPal links onour website, write a check or
something that would be weird.
That would be interesting. Whowould it be to? Who would you
write a check to? Would it bejust strange hands, radio or
just Eric cash?
(52:16):
Well, thank you, and we willtalk again soon.
All right, bye, bye,transportation and other
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Guests of strange eons radiostay at econo lodge Everett.
(52:37):
It's an easy stop on the road.
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it was an add on fee.
We're going to talk about what this is. Oh, I'm
(00:04):
sorry, did I break yourconcentration? Somewhere between
science and superstition, wehave such sites to show you,
(00:28):
strange eons. Hello. This is alittle bit different take on
strange eons. Radio. Regularlisteners know that we've gone
to two episodes two episodes amonth now, every other week. And
Vanessa and I are thinking,well, let's talk about some
other stuff. So we're going totalk about conceptual editing in
(00:54):
a film, and how it doesn't haveto be as straightforward as you
think. Why Vanessa, why do youthink you're good for talking
about thiswell as an editor. So I've been
editing as of this year, 20years now, and definitely have
done the whole like, Okay, howdo we how do we reconfigure
(01:16):
this? Are there ways that we canedit something a little bit
differently, or, you know, makesomething fresher, or make
something cooler. You know,editing is a huge part of any
story process. And it, it'sbasically the third version of
the film. It's, it's the right,it's, it's written, it's
directed, and then afterwards,it's edited, it's put together.
(01:38):
That's the final moment we getto take something and put our
creative spin on it and try totell a cool story with it. So
I'm really psyched to get anopportunity to look at a film
through this lens and see seewhat I can contribute to this
film that Eric has picked for usthis week
(01:59):
be a little bit official now,then I'm Eric. That's Vanessa.
Hello, there we go. I pickedthis one. Oh, and I've also
done, I've edited a coupledocumentaries, a couple
features, a ton of shorts. I'vetaught editing classes and
(02:21):
programs. So what it's worthdone some editing stuff.
Excellent, excellent. And youknow, if this goes well, maybe
we'll look at some other thingsin film, because we've both
created our own stuff, maybe notwriting. We'd need Kelly for
that, at leastfor me. Yeah, I think that he's
(02:43):
definitely expert in thatparticular portion of this. But
yeah, definitely Eric and I havevery similar mindset when it
comes to looking at films fromthe technical perspective of
post production. And yeah, it'scool to have a nerd friend of
that genre before we jump in. Isthere a favorite editing
(03:04):
software or tool that you liketo use?
Oh, get technical right away. Ihave used, I used Final Cut till
they became Final Cut X. Andlike many editors, I went, this
is weird. I don't feel likerelearning how to edit
digitally. And I actually myfirst editing job way, way back
(03:27):
when, was three quarter inch,reel to reel, little VHS machine
down, plugging in me, but andthen a program around for a
while that's not around anymore,called liquid, because I think
Adobe bottom and I I've alsoedited on premiere, and about
three or four years ago, I saidI don't feel like playing a
(03:48):
monthly fee for premiere, so Iwent to DaVinci Resolve, and I
freaking love it. That does somuch. It's free to start if you
want. It's like 250 to get thestudio version for life. All
updates free forever, and they,when they do an update, they
(04:08):
don't screw around. Theyactually really do some work.
But, you know, I'd imagine, as apro, you've found one that
definitely have learned all thenicks and crannies about to keep
using,yeah, so it's tough. So I, like
you, learned on Final Cut, Istarted on, I don't know if it's
four or five, and then they wentup to x. And I don't know if you
(04:32):
remember this, Eric, but whenthey went to x, the biggest
problem I had with it was anylittle thing you wanted to do,
like export to a Pro Res, it wasan add on fee. So using any
transit was an add on fee, yeah.
So they just did a big old fufor their core audience. They
(04:53):
tried to make it for any user.
They wanted to dumb it down alot at the time they wanted.
Prosumers rather thanprofessional users. And so that
was the point where the companyI was with at that time, which
was Technicolor, started movingover to premiere. I've since
been on premiere. I can do avid.
(05:15):
I've worked on TV and film andavid, that's typically still
being used. I hate it. I hateit. Yeah, it's not. I've used it
very, very tight. I haven't usedit. I've sat in with somebody
using it, and it's no, I'm good,yeah, people
don't want to leave it becauseit's so unintuitive that it is
such a high bar to learn it,that once you learn it, you
(05:39):
don't want to do anything elseyou're like, I learned this one
horrific piece of software I amdone. Thank you very much. I am
not a fan of it. It's like everyone click thing for premiere is
at least three steps in AVIDhowever, Premier is now putting
out an AI version that they areforcing everyone to
(06:01):
automatically be on unless youopt out. So, yeah, they're doing
some really iffy stuff. So Imight be looking more and more
towards resolve. I've beenputting it off. It's
understandable,yeah. I mean, it's premiere for
years.
Yeah, I just know it so well. Iknow it's weirdness and it's not
perfect, but I just know it sowell.
(06:24):
Yeah, another weird I'll tossout for selling point of Da
Vinci and why I like it so much.
Everything's in one program. Ifyou want to edit, like Final Cut
X, it's actually in there thatis a window that has that style
of editing. And there's theregular premiere editing. And
obviously it's not astechnically big as after
(06:47):
effects, but they have a prettygood program of that. And I edit
all of our audio in there aswell. And of course, color
correction is like, that's wherethey've got their money there
all the film. It's big name, andit's fun. It's crazy
complicated. That's thecomplicated one in there. It's
(07:08):
like, my god, but in the early90s, it was a $200,000 program,
so when it first started to hitjust or midnight. Anyways,
yeah, I wonder why they decidedto go free, just to just because
they really want to dominate themarket.
They sell the gear. They sell.
They make their money selling,selling audio boards and audio
(07:30):
like entire audio rooms and andthey have cameras and they have
video like you can get built indesks of their stuff. Those are
expensive. That's where theymake their money, 10s of 1000s
of dollars for some of them. Butanyways, so what are we talking
(07:55):
about? Do you remember whatmovie I do?
I remember that we are talkingabout the amazing film from 1999
the limey.
(08:16):
My name's Wilson.
You wrote me about my daughter,this bloke, she was bunked up
with Terry Valentine. What's shegot to say for himself?
You tell him, get yourgift while I'm after you tell
(08:36):
him I'm coming.
Tell him I'm coming.
Jenny never told you about herdad. What dad? When it was in
prison for nine years,he was released last month,
as long as nobody can connectenemy to me, I won't
(09:02):
Get to get what I'm after tillthe day.
(09:22):
The I guess I did the RottenTomatoes specifically because I
was interested how differentthey are. The reviewers and
stuff hit 92 the general publicis 78 Wow. But anyways, yeah,
this was directed by that crazyfilmmaker Steven Soderbergh.
(09:43):
What are some of your favoriteSoderbergh films? Oh, gosh,
I like a lot of his stuff. Butthen at the same time, it's
funny, I thought I liked tons,and then I looked back through
stuff and was like, I also don'treally. Care about tons of them.
Like, I haven't seen Logan luckyChase, fine, but I have recently
(10:07):
talked about black bag. He didKimmy, which was really
interesting presence I just saw,which was great magic. Mike, so,
okay, the place. Man, he'severywhere, yeah, and then,
like, Erin Brockovich isincredible. I actually have not
seen sex laws in videotape, butit's pretty bad. I would love
(10:29):
to,yeah. And I enjoy oceans 11. I
think it's an entirely funpopcorn kind of movie. And Kafka
is wild, really, yeah, out ofsight is pretty good. And of
course, traffic is his Oscarwinning one written by LEM
Dobbs, who wrote a movie I justtalked about Dark City.
(10:51):
Oh yeah. Oh crazy. Okay,so and the score, hard way,
stuff like that. And edited by,edited by oh my gosh, I've lost
Sarah black, absolutely so Sarahflack has done she did, lost in
translation. She recently, morerecently, did Priscilla, which I
(11:14):
didn't see, but I heard a lot ofgood things about, um, she's got
37 editing credits, so she'sbeen around for a minute. And
also, Dave Chappelle, blockparty. Very interesting,
sure. And come on, Book ofShadows. Blair Witch, too. Oh,
(11:36):
she didn't write it. So, youknow, I can hold that against
her. The main actor in this thelimey is Terence Stamp, who is
wonderful in the movie you hatedlast night in Soho or didn't
like, didn't hate, but didn't, Ididn't hate it at all. I didn't
hate it. It was just there wasthere was a thing about the
culture where it was out oftouch. But it was a good movie.
(11:57):
It was a good movie.
He's in one that I find aridiculously underrated movie
about Mickey movies, which isbofinger.
Oh yeah. I loved bofinger. Yeah.
That was a great film,fun film, and, you know, a crap
ton of stuff. Also a littleknown actor, Peter Fonda.
Oh yeah. Peter Fonda, when Ifirst saw him pop up in this
(12:18):
one, was like, Really, you havevery white teeth, whoever you
are. And I kind of hovered mymouse over the the Amazon
screen. It was like, Oh, shoot.
All right,yeah, he does look different
from like, if you've only seenhim, an easy writer, or some of
those films, and Leslie andWarren, who's in the amazing,
(12:40):
wonderful clue.
I It's been so long since I'veseen clue. I know you love that
movie, though. Yeah.
GREAT film. Victor Victoria,another really good movie, and
let's see Lewis Gosman. Guzman,yeah. Luis Guzman,
really excited to see him pop upin this. I mean, I think it's a
(13:04):
joy every time you get LuisGuzman and he's, I don't know,
he brings a lot of energy tothis film.
So, yeah, he really does. Imean, it's, you know, he had his
dumb and dumber and Harry metLloyd moment. But he's
definitely an actor's actor inthat sure pay me. I'll give it a
shot. And he's doesn't matterwhat he's in, he's going to be
good. This is a deep talk on thefilm. So if you haven't seen it
(13:27):
and you're curious about whatwe're going to talk about, go
watch it. It's on Prime withouta rental, and a few other places
for rental. We're definitelygoing to talk about all kinds of
stuff that happens in it. Iwould think.
So, yeah, so why did you pickthis movie before we jump in?
Because, I mean, I now kind ofget it because I haven't seen it
(13:51):
before, but you have seen it. Sowhat was it about this that,
like, really piqued yourinterest? It
99 so I'd been pre done somemusic videos. I've done some
some stuff by then, some shorts,but not a lot. But watching this
warped my thinking of editing.
Altered the thinking idea of TheABCs of editing, of the cut
(14:14):
here, cut there. Do this, makeeverything easily
understandable. You know, makesure you go from point A to
point B, get in and out as quickas you can. You know, all the
things of editing, and boy, itturns out on its head in a lot
of scenes, not all the time.
(14:35):
There's plenty of times whereit's really straightforward.
They do some interesting stuff.
What did you think on your firstviewing?
Um, you know, it took me aminute to kind of work out what,
like, what this style was, andkind of like where we were, and
(14:56):
I don't know like it, I was sortof like, okay, trying to come to
grip. With it. But it was thissort of mix of like, unconscious
and so natural with the way thatit is that even though we're
like, he'll be talking toanother person, and then all of
a sudden we are in a shot of himsitting alone on train or
sitting in a hotel room, orlooking at something, or in a
(15:18):
memory, like it's just it feelsso natural that it really
doesn't jar you in the way thata lot of creative 1999 editing
will.
That's a strong year for editdecisions. That's
true matrix and all that stuff.
Yeah, if you were to linearlytell this story in its regular
fashion, it would be okay. Yes,because it's a very, very basic
(15:42):
revenge story. Yeah, guys,daughter gets killed, he goes to
find out who did it, and heexacts his revenge eventually,
after things happen.
But yeah, that's 100% Yeah, aguy from, you know, a Cockney, a
(16:04):
Cockney bro, comes to LA tofigure out what happened to his
daughter. And kind of, yeah,like a bit of a who done it in
the Hollywood Hills, and, yeah,in and out.
It's sort of like memento, or ifyou flipped Memento and watched
it in order. It would still be apretty good film, but it would
(16:24):
definitely not. It would nottell the right story. Yeah,
let's see how to dive in. Sincethis is one of our first we'll
fumble along in nice littleways.
I did like the the allblack at the beginning, where
it's just all black, and youstart to hear him speak, tell
me, tell me.
(16:53):
Tell me about Jenny. That is aneat way to go. I mean, maybe
I'm overthinking this, but it'sa neat way to go. What you see
isn't as important as what youhear, right? And a lot of in a
lot of segments of this movie,which is very true, I think it
might be easier if we just kindof jump around a little bit
(17:15):
Sure,yeah, like the movie did much
like the movie? Yeah. Yeah. Ithink it was something that they
started doing pretty early onthat I really loved was so the
main character's name is Wilson.
When he arrives in LA we startwith him at the airport, we
(17:36):
almost immediately start cuttingto just these like images, these
very abstract images of hisdaughter, and we don't really
know the context of them. We seeher kind of looking at him
through different moments in herlife, and she always looks like
a little displeased or a littlelike judgy or a little like you
(17:56):
can tell the relationship is notstrong, and it's such a good
representation of showing andnot telling where the rest of
the film is, then going to spendtime filling in some blanks for
you. And yeah, I just, I reallylove that choice of like, it
just brings a lot of intrigue.
Like, okay, who is this person?
And at first it's like, Is ithis daughter? Is it his? You
(18:18):
know, who is this girl to him?
And then you find out it is hisdeceased daughter. I
(18:40):
hmm, yeah, yeah. It's a greatway to do it too, because as the
movie moves forward, you realizehim and his daughter really
didn't have a very goodrelationship at all much upon
period. And the idea, because ifyou're going to think back to
people that mean to you and loveto you. Mean something to you.
(19:02):
Generally, you might think ofthe happier stuff a little bit
more. And so it feels a littleweird to see her glaring at them
on the phone, or theshot at the beach they use a lot
with the lightshowing her face, yeah, where
it's almost like I was kind oftrying to figure out, like, was
he, like, shining the light onher face to, like, mess with
her? Or, like, what is it?
(19:23):
Because she was like, Ah, myeyes, but yeah, definitely like
her on the phone. I feel likethere's this, the way that it's,
it's portrayed, is it's almostlike he can't get this guilt,
this feeling of like, I don'tguilt, or like, a knees in the
relationship, out of his head.
And there's, she's aprofessional criminal who spent
a lot of time in and out of thethe British prison system at His
(19:45):
Majesty service, and she shereally did not want him to be
engaged in any criminalactivities. So you do get this
sort of you. Yeah, butting headsgoing on. And then he meets the
guy that sent him the letter,which is Guzman, but no
(20:05):
indication of why he sent theletter initially. So, I mean, it
turns out to be kind of basictoo, which, again, goes to the
this is a better story becauseof the way it's told.
The editing is great with this,because you can tell that there
are shots that would have beennormally left on the cutting
room floor where they shotthings in, like a side shot and
(20:29):
a straight on shot and and theway that it's cut when he first
meets this guy, which is playedby Louise Guzman, is you kind of
almost are like, is he tellingthe truth? What was this guy to
her like? Because the waythey're using the the multiple
takes, it's almost like he sayscertain lines with different
(20:49):
emphasis when they re show it,and you're like, oh, Was he
lying that first time? Or, youknow, what? What does he mean
where there was an accident and,you know, are they just friends?
Did they How did they need, youknow, who's who's this guy to
her? And I think that buildingup that suspicion through these
weird takes that are alteringreally helps you get in the
(21:13):
mindset of Wilson, yeah,yeah. I think it's great. The
and the the stuff that isn'tcoming from the lie me directly,
but is more like when Guzman'stelling him stuff has these
great blue shading over the top,almost like it's shot through a
blue gel. And it's it's fillingin blanks for him, and knowing
(21:36):
that that is not what he'sremembering, because he wasn't,
obviously, isn't involved inthose events.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
And there's, and it's so um,unreliable to these, the way
that these like strange shotsthat are often, you know, like I
said, we'll be sitting in onescene, and then we'll be seeing
(21:58):
scenes, you know stuff fromfuture scenes or past scenes, or
his past memories. And it's veryinteresting, because sometimes
it isn't what happens. A lot oftimes it is what is going to
happen, or you're getting alittle hints of what's about to
occur as he's following leads.
(22:19):
So the the next step aftermeeting Luis Guzman is finding
out some thugs that she mighthave been involved with. And he
goes to check in on thiswarehouse and the guys, you
know, he confronts these guys,and they rough him up a little,
and then he proceeds To returnto the warehouse and murder them
(22:39):
all. YouYou tell him, You tell him I'm
(23:02):
coming. Tell him I'm fuckingcoming.
But the way it's told is we getthese little hints of, like,
he's in the car, he he's, youknow, picking up a business
card. We see a guy. We see somethugs, and you know, him getting
beat up, and then, and then, youknow, and then we see a gun and
(23:26):
but it's all being told at thesame time as he's entering the
building. Sothere's another great little
moment in that one when the whenhe gets beat down a little bit,
and the lead guy there leans into tell him something, and it's
shot with these fades, asopposed to him just leaning in.
So it feels like whatever he'ssaying is awful, like you
(23:47):
mentioned it already the sceneto scene. It goes throughout the
movie where it's not get in car,drive, arrive at destination.
It's get in car, see wheredestination might be going to
be, and then, then he's thinkingback about something that
already happened, and then it'swild. But I don't I didn't feel
lost,no, no, same. I didn't feel like
(24:11):
I was watching a college levelexperimental film, right, which
is so easy to fall into thetraps of, when it's you're doing
artsy for art's sake, it feltlike, okay, like this is an
older guy. He's lived a prettyfull life, like his mind is
wandering. He's like, you know,he's also pretty clever. He's
(24:33):
thinking ahead about things.
Like he's just skipping around,just like our brains do, and so
it's just very easy to followthat process. Yeah,
I agree. You know, I think weshould do a little break, like
we normally do about now, showsome weird commercial. Come
(24:56):
back, so we'll be back in justsick. Yeah. I
when it comes to postproduction, the editing and
packaging of a commercial, ITVstands alone in the technical
(25:19):
spotlight, film commercials andmany video tape productions are
electronically assembledutilizing the Ampex ra 4000
random access programmer. Thisis known as time code post
production. In the case of film,the original footage is
processed in house and thentransferred to two inch video
(25:40):
tape masters and a three quarterinch video cassette work print
copy during the transfer, eachvideo frame is encoded with an
electronic address consisting ofhours, minutes, seconds and
frames. An editor will then usethe video cassette copy to
(26:01):
electronically cut theequivalent of a film work print.
This is called offline editing.
The next link comes up and itstarts over here. Again, a log
of all scene addresses and editpoints is kept for use during
the final assembly. Finalassembly of the spot is
(26:23):
completed by log addresses beingentered into the RA 4000 the RA
4000 searches for the exactscenes and then electronically
performs the edits anddissolves.
The results a precisely edited,technically clean product. The
(26:46):
advantages to the advertiser,many time consuming delays
caused by having to sendcommercials off to a film lab
for printing and special effectsare eliminated. Finished spots
are completed in house, at asaving of both time and money
while enhancing quality.
(27:13):
And we are back. So yeah, we arediscussing the limey and it's
crazy editing style. Eric and Ias professional editors are
breaking this down, checking itout. And Eric tell me, there is
there a scene that really stuckout for you? Is there something
that really like, you know,raptures your attention in this
(27:34):
film?
There was one that I saw thefilm, and then I don't remember.
Re watching it again for years,maybe until last week, and a
scene that stuck with me thewhole time through was when he
first goes to see Leslie andWarren. And it's a longer
segment, but he he's at thegate, and she's locked the gate
(27:56):
so he can't come in, and they'retalking back and forth. I
You're Jenny's father.
Why did you come here?
That'd be nice to have a chatwith you. That's all No.
(28:20):
Why did you come hereget a few things sorted out.
Been busy, have youhow'd you mean,
I heard you were what is thatadorable expression at her
majesty's pleasure?
It was the bars. Then.
(28:40):
What was it? Wembley Stadium jobthat was it? Right? Pink Floyd
concert receipts,earning interest in an offshore
account. Tidy little premium perannum,
security like that can't bebought.
Must be more comforting thanhaving a daughter to greet you,
(29:03):
boy, then she can let me in.
You can call me again, andit goes back and forth. And it
is not, it is not wide,overshot, overshot, close up,
close up at all, and it was sointeresting, or the really,
really abstract thing thathappens next is when he tells
(29:24):
her a story, and the story, thevocal never changes, but he's
telling the same story at herplace, and then out on a wharf
or something, and Then, I think,at a restaurant or coffee, yeah,
but the story is perfectlylinear, but the video jumps to
different locations. I think itworks. So cool. Do you remember
(29:50):
that what I'm talking aboutthere? Yeah, 100% in fact, when,
when I was watching that, I feltlike it reminds me so much of
like hanging out with a friend Ihave. Seen in a while, or going
on a date or something, andyou're, you're trying to explain
something about your life, andit is like you're, you're
spending this whole evening withsomebody, and you're, like,
relaying this stuff aboutyourself. And, you know, who
(30:12):
knows when you said what? But itjust felt like, Okay, we get
this concept that they spentthis huge amount of time
together, catching, you know,learning who one another are
are. She is the acting teacher,slash best friend of his
daughter,yeah, something like that. Yeah,
definitely his teacher, butyeah, so she definitely knows
(30:34):
her Yeah, yeah. And the teacheralso knows they have a really
rocky relationship, so there's alot of judgment from her on this
guy, but then they have thisweird, like, natural. I want to
say chemistry, but I don't wantto say it's romantic. It's just
sortof a no, it's definitely not.
You're right, it's not.
But, yeah, that definitelystruck me too, where I was like,
(30:55):
I love when I love that kind ofediting, where it's match cuts,
but it was match audio and notmatch cuts. It was like
distinctly unmatched cuts withaudio that just brings us
through, yeah, this, this storythat he's playing,
yeah. I just thought that wasreally, really cool, another
(31:16):
really interesting editingmoment. Or did you have a
favorite segment like that thathits you real
strong. I think at the it's,it's probably near the end, so I
don't know if I if we want tojump all the way there or not.
Well,there's another one then that I
thought was really cool is whenhe goes to the party for Peter
Fonda's house, and he starts tovisualize killing him. Yes,
(31:45):
the unreliable one, yeah, itstarts off, and everything's
slowed down, and the audio isreally low, and he goes in, and
it gets loud when he shoots theguy, but then you realize, Oh,
that wasn't real. So it speedsup just a little bit, and it
gets a little bit louder, and heshoots him a little more
violently, yeah. And then goesback again, and it does it one
(32:06):
more time where it's full partyvolume, yeah, the most violent
shooting of the three. So it'sall like, Oh, this is when you
oh no, he doesn't actually Wow.
And I was like, Is this real? Isthis not real? Because all the
other ones previously had been,as far as we know, as an
(32:29):
audience, real, and this onewas, but you had that clue that
from that audio change of volumeand just rhythm, it did feel
like, okay, maybe he's imaginingthis one. And the first time he
gets him in the chest, and thesecond time he shoots him, and
he kind of misses and gets himin like, the shoulder, yeah,
right. And then the last timegets him square in the head, and
(32:52):
get to see the brains flyingout. I think maybe I couldn't
inserted that, but it was very,very cool, just like seeing kind
of his processing. And then, ofcourse, he's we watched him go
in, and the tension builds, andyou're like, Oh my God, he's
gonna murder this guy. And LuisGuzman puts, I don't know if
this guy's the actual charactername, but he stops him. He's
(33:14):
like, Hey, man, pull it back.
First. Christopher cross album,yeah, yeah, wow. That record
changed my mind.
This is not gonna happen. Yeah,it's really good. Their
relationship is so cool. It's sounique, because they're really
(33:38):
friendly in this one thing. Butyou know is it almost feels like
as soon as he leaves, they'renever going to talk again, this
event, this happening, they'recompletely together. Yeah,
really cool. Yeah.
I think that leads me to, likeone thing that did kind of throw
(33:59):
me off, and I wasn't sure whatyou made of it. A lot of it, I
felt like, Okay, I'm inside ofhis head, and that's why we're
skipping around. But then westarted doing that with other
characters, like the Hitman thatthe security for the the actor
slash boyfriend of his daughter,um, sends out some hitmen to go
(34:24):
after him, and then we havethis, like, sort of telling of
them in the bar, hanging outplaying pool, and it does a
skipping time thing with them.
And I was like, I wonder whywe're doing it with other
characters. And then we do itwith Luis Guzman as well. When
he's we see him cooking at arestaurant, and then he leaves,
and then we see him driving thecar. So clearly, he's been asked
to, you know, put his life onhold and drive this guy around
(34:47):
to help him get revenge. Butyeah, I was trying to work out,
like, why other characters werealso going through this thing,
and I couldn't quite feel.
Figure it out.
I have a theory on that, and Idon't know if it plays into your
end concept, but let's see whatelse I had here. Well, honestly,
(35:13):
as the But another interestingthing in the movie is it starts
off really erratic, and the morethe story comes together, the
more you meet all thecharacters, the more everything
begins. It becomes less erraticin its editing and a little more
traditional. Oh, interesting.
But still have a theory on that.
(35:36):
But let's but why not? Let'stalk about what your favorite
segment was, even if it is theend,
yeah, so at the end, I mean, thewhole, the whole story is, of
course, him like trying to findthe person responsible for his
daughter's death. He finds thismusic producer, guy who was
dating her, and somehow seems tobe behind it. He's not exactly
(35:59):
sure how, but he's going to killhim, he's decided. And at the
very end there, he catches upwith the guy. He's they've taken
out all of his security, slashhis security has been taken out
by his other security. It's ahuge chaotic mess. There were
too many people involved andgetting greedy and making poor
(36:21):
decisions. So in the end, hereally didn't have to do that
much work. He just had to showup. And he's chasing this guy
down the beach at night. And theguy is just a weaselly,
worthless guy. He's running. Hetrips on a rock, he gets a
compound fracture. He's justsort of, you know, back, back,
crawling on the ground,slithering around, and he
(36:43):
finally tells him the story. Youknow, he's he the dad says, Tell
me about Jenny. Tell me.
Tell me about Jenny.
Tell me about Jenny. Tell meabout Jenny.
(37:06):
I needed money.
I would have given her anythingshe wanted, but she said she
found out about my deal. Shetried to stop me. She said she
was gonna turn me in. She saidshe was here to call the cops. I
couldn't stop it. It alreadyhappened. It was over. She was
(37:28):
going to call the cops. Shemeant it. She had the phone in
her head. She was here to callthe cops.
She meant it. I couldn't stopit.
I couldn't do anything.
(37:57):
It's cool because we see theseflashbacks to her as a kid, and
we've already been told by himthat she hated him going out on
all these jobs. So she wouldfake call the police, or she'd
say, Oh, I got them on the line,and she was never, ever, ever
going to actually do it becauseshe loved him, and she was never
that kind of person, but shewanted to call him out on his
(38:20):
behavior, and she wanted to showa tough front. So in that
moment, he realizes that she'sdead because of something he
did. And I think that all thatwork of showing her as a kid
suddenly comes to a head in thatscene, and it's so just
beautiful. And he just drops theguy and is like, alright, I
(38:43):
don't need you. I don't need tokill you. Now it you know, your
guy's life is ruined no matterwhat, like this dude, you can't
come back from whatever has justoccurred. He doesn't have to do
anything to him, and he's notworth it,
right? So wouldn't be satisfyingto kill this guy.
Would not be satisfied to killthis guy. And he'd already told
some story too, about trying toget revenge for some guy who put
(39:06):
him away the third time he wasin prison and found him on a
park bench and could havemurdered him and decided not to.
So it it reflects that momenttoo. You know, without even him
saying, Hey, you're not worth itto me, he's not saying anything.
He's not to say, oh my, mydaughter's dead, because it's my
fault. We already have all ofthis information as an audience
(39:28):
member through these weirdflashbacks, and so I think they
just did such a beautiful job,and that scene just brought it
all home.
Yes, agreed. Here's my theory.
It comes a little later thanthat. So see the whole movie,
it's been flashbacking to himsitting on a plane, yeah, and
the implication is he, that'shim flying Yeah. The end you
(39:49):
find out that's him flying home,yeah, which makes me think,
because in the shots on theplane, you. He's reacting. He
reacts to what's happening inthe movie. I think he's
remembering everything as heflies back, he's thinking back
to what he's what he wentthrough and what he went to,
(40:12):
which would explain why he mighthave memories of like when he
called the guy in the restaurantand he came out of the back
room, he might go, that'sprobably what it looked like
when he after I called him, orthat's why he when there's a
scene, forgot which one it was,there's something with his
daughter, and it cuts betweenhim, it happening, and then him,
(40:33):
very distinctly reacting to whathappened, then cuts back to her,
and that then cuts back to him,and him and him reacting
differently to what had happenedthe second time around. So for
those reactions, he would havehad to know what had happened,
or it wouldn't have been able toit'd just be him making funny
(40:54):
faces on a plane as he fliesover to LA. I think that's part
of the reason it's sold sounusually.
Oh, interesting. Wow, yeah. Ithink there's something to that
for sure, yeah, because it justhas that really sporadic feeling
(41:18):
of randomness. And he very wellcould be like, oh yeah. And
these weird assassin guys showedup. Who fucking knows what
they're about.
When you think about thingslike, I'm going to use a really
stupid analogy, because I'm asports fan, but if you think
about a sports game, you've seenpictures. But if you're at the
(41:41):
game, you don't know what theguys are doing in the hall
before they run out to thecrowd, but you picture in your
head, oh, this might be whatthey're doing. That'd be cool,
yeah, interesting little quirkslike that. Like, I don't
remember driving a to b, but Ido remember driving past this
factory. I almost rewatched itimmediately going order factor,
(42:04):
but I just didn't have so I'ddefinitely be watching it again
soon.
Yeah, I would definitely beinterested in watching this the
second time through, and seeingwhat new I get out of it from
from that because I feel likethere's a lot more to dig
through once you know where it'swhere it's going, and you know
that being said. You know, foranybody who is interested in
(42:27):
watching it, it is so fun. Thewriting, like, there are just
lines in there that are, like,just incredibly funny or random
or like, thoughtful. I just, Ilove his weird cockney slamming,
cockney, rhyming slang, yes,yes, like butchers, and going to
(42:50):
have a, I think he said, like aChina, and it's like, because
they mean different things. It'slike, I'm going to have a
butchers, which means, lookaround, because butcher
something, something whichrhymes with the look around it.
It's a whole thing. Like, Ilived in London for a long time.
It's a whole freaking thing. Inever fully could understand it,
but it's, it's very cool howpeople are reacting to him,
(43:12):
like, I don't know what you'resaying,
even in context, I don't knowwhat you mean. So, yeah, one
thing we didn't mention that waspretty interesting. Was footage
from the movie 1967 film, poorcow. This
is what I was going to ask youabout as well, because we have
these flashbacks to him as awhen he's married, and him and
(43:37):
his wife and like his friends.
And I'm like, I think this ishim. I think this is good. Yeah,
I could. I was like, What isthis? Did they just get a really
good look like, and then film iton, like, 16 or, like, what is
this? I'mlooking at is, man, I It's
called poor cow. I said it's 67and it works. I mean, it very
(43:57):
much fits a young guy in love,and then there's a judge in
there at one point, and scenesthat may have nothing to do with
crime in the film itself, butlooks like it could be somebody
doing something. Apparently,when he was doing that,
Soderbergh did not know what hewanted to use, so he went to
(44:19):
Warner Brothers and said, I justwant to license the movie and
use whatever parts I need as Ineed them. And they said no
initially. And he said, If Idon't have full access, I'm just
not going to make this film. Hehad it going on, and they're
like, Okay, fine, use whateveryou want.
(44:43):
And the band, they used itreally well.
They did a great job that was sobeautifully written. And just
yeah, like it. It really helpsbring a lot of it to life,
because it gives that extrapiece of nostalgia and memory
and. Yeah, and there are a fewlines throughout this film about
nostalgia and memory, where themusic producer is famous for
(45:08):
bringing 1960 style music thatpeople are starting to kind of
sound like, I'm guessing, thesort of Oasis period to light
and making huge amounts of moneyoff of this style. And then he
is telling his new girlfriend,his new like, gorgeous actress
girlfriend, far too young forhim, about, you know, it's, it
(45:31):
was all about the 60s. Reallyjust took place in 1966 and 1967
and it was a world that was likea dream that, you know, as a
place that doesn't exist, butexcept for in your mind. And
that's what the 60s were. Andit's just this cool, like,
strange thing about we the waywe remember, and the the life we
(45:54):
live through, that I don't know.
It's neat.
I like that. No, that's reallygood. What he was saying. I was
kind of looking up whatSoderberg was doing around that
time. He'd done out of sightjust before, and he was about to
do Brockovich traffic in oceans11, so he was on the verge of
exploding.
Yeah, I read an article with himtalking about the process for
(46:18):
this, which I know we can getinto in a minute. Um, he talked
about he got nominated for allthese awards for out of sight,
and they called him, but he wasso stressed out over this movie
that he just did not care. Hewas just like, I don't care. My
life is in a really bad placeright now, and my brain is
somewhere else. So, yeah, so doyou want to walk us through kind
(46:39):
of why this movie is cut the wayit is. Quick, quick
sidebar, real quick. Kevin KenLoach was the director of poor
cow. Oh man. Ken Loach, wow,okay, yeah, I read a little bit
into that of what it might havebeen, and see if you've read the
same thing or somethingdifferent. But that they made
it, they made the movie, theyfinished it, and they realized
(47:05):
this could be a lot better.
This is, like we were sayingearlier, this is kind of a
generic, straightforward revengemovie. And so he went back into
the editing bay. I wasoriginally prepared to give a
lot of credit to his editor,yeah, who obviously is very
(47:26):
important. But reading further,it sounded like it was a lot of
him, yeah. And, I mean, sir, I'msure Sarah contributed greatly,
because that's impossible notto, you know, basically editing
like that is largely two peoplesitting in the room.
So who really contributedwill never really be known by
(47:48):
anybody other than the two ofthem. 100%
Yeah, the article I read was himreflecting back on it, what
right before the HD release ofit. And him saying that when
they put out the linear cut andstart showing it, they were
like, this movie sucks. Like,this movie is not a movie. It's
(48:10):
not an interesting movie. Thismovie sucks. And he was like, we
took it back. He said, I want tosay we recut it, but we
completely started from zero andtried to work out, like, and I
don't know what that processlooked like, as far as how they
came to come to the conclusionof, I know that they re shot a
bunch of stuff that was thatkind of thinking, spacey stuff,
(48:34):
where it's like just looking atsome wind chimes, or just, they
shot a lot of extra pieces thatthey could assemble into it, but
that they it was a disaster,like this film was going to be
disaster, and so they saved itvia the strange choices in this
edit.
(48:55):
And in the end, you know,whoever did the most really
doesn't matter. The fact is,they came together and made a
really, really interesting filmthat like you, like you just
said there, I think I have noproblem believing if they screen
this as a linear storyline, it'dbe like,
Fine, you guys showing anythingelse today.
(49:19):
This has not fulfilled my movieneeds.
Yeah, I think I've heard itcompared to cubism, but which
makes a lot of sense to me, Ilike that. I think it's really
cool in the way that it's verytelling about our process as
editors. Because even thoughthis is a very extreme example
(49:43):
of that we are often forced tomake problem solving decisions.
Where the number of times I'vehad a director who said, Hey,
you got to use this shot.
Where's this shot? We spent allday on the shot. And I'm like,
shot doesn't exist. Bro, I don'tknow what to tell you. Gonna
look, look through the footageagain. I'm like, I've looked
literally 10 times, but I willlook 11, you know, and gone
(50:05):
piece by piece by piece. Andlike, I'm sorry you didn't, you
didn't do it. It's not in thecan or they think something
looks great, and it's actually,it was shaking the whole time.
I think this is a fundiscussion. I like talking
editing with you. I think it'spretty cool. Yeah, did it work
(50:25):
for you? Something else we cando again in the future? Maybe?
Yeah, definitely. I think thatthese will be, like, really cool
little like, I like these, like,little vignettes and things that
we can try out. We candefinitely do discussions of,
you know, whatever, whetherthat's editing, whether that's,
you know, picking differentthings apart, or I'm very keen.
(50:49):
I'm very, very Yeah, if youliked listening to this great
the usual spiel of, thanks forshare us around. Let us know if
this was dumb. I only likeKelly, fine.
I really like Kelly too. Whatthe heck? Bring back Kelly?
(51:09):
Okay, what would Kelly do?
There's a bumper sticker.
WW, KD,I'm glad we did this, and we'll
do it again sometime, if peoplelike it, if you don't like it,
we might do it again anyways,because we like talking movies.
Wesure do. Yeah. Thank you guys so
much for tuning in and checkingus out. You know, per usual,
(51:29):
please share us around. Jump onFacebook. Say hey, let us know
what you think of it. Let usknow if you have any ideas that
you would like to check out. Andalso, of course, feel free to
donate money our way so we cancontinue to do these awesome
things. Eric, how do we getmoney into our fine little
coffers?
(51:53):
I've got PayPal, and we've got,buy me a pizza, buy me a coffee.
Technically, the PayPal links onour website, write a check or
something that would be weird.
That would be interesting. Whowould it be to? Who would you
write a check to? Would it bejust strange hands, radio or
just Eric cash?
(52:16):
Well, thank you, and we willtalk again soon.
All right, bye, bye,transportation and other
considerations for strange eons,radio produced by Pan Am
airlines. When you think oftraveling, think of Pan Am. You
can't beat the experience.
Guests of strange eons radiostay at econo lodge Everett.
(52:37):
It's an easy stop on the road.
Strange eons. Radio is recordedlive in front of a studio
audience. If you enjoyed thisepisode, please consider leaving
us a positive review on yourfavorite podcast, sit Ubu. Sit,
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