Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:01):
Hello everyone, welcome back to Strange Drange
Beyond Insane.
Um, well, besides taking asiesta here for what, I think 10
weeks, uh, had a whole whole asshuman come out of me, so I've
been kind of preoccupied, and wehave now sat around with both of
our guests for almost two hoursum with technical difficulties
(00:24):
because Jenny was talking aboutthe hat man.
I'm just kidding.
Anyways, I'm gonna let Jennytake this over with um someone
very cool and a very colorfulbackground in the paranormal
world.
And uh yeah, Jenny, go ahead andreintroduce yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
So I'm Jenny.
Um, my page on Facebook isHaunted Places82.
Um, and yeah, we have a veryspecial guest.
Um I met him at the Ohio StateReformatory Paracon.
And um yeah, he told me abouthis background, and I was like,
wow, like I need to have you onthe podcast.
So, Tom, um, I'm gonna kindahave you do an introduction of
(01:06):
yourself because I think youwould be able to say it a whole
lot better than I would.
You've been involved in so much.
Um, but yeah, if you can goahead and do that.
unknown (01:16):
Perfect.
I'm glad that you guys have meon.
I'm glad we're figuring it allout.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
But uh, yeah, Ohio State.
I mentioned Ohio Statereformatory.
Uh one of my favorite placesbecause they filmed Shaw Shank
Redemption there, my favoritemovie of all time.
So um, I I go back a little bit.
unknown (01:38):
I my big joke for everybody that was asking how
I've been doing this for Ialways tell them I've been doing
this uh uh since uh the TC wasonly sick.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
So my things I I go back uh my teen years probably
um I always had abilities Iwould say things, uh, don't
understand why I would feelthings, don't understand why I
went from happy to angry in amatter of a couple seconds just
by moving into a room.
(02:09):
Uh I want to go see a Halloweenspecial Central Connecticut here
uh near Britain, Connecticut,where I'm currently at.
Um I'm in the process of movingout to Ohio as we talk, uh, but
um I'm glad you guys have me onin the middle of my move.
unknown (02:23):
So I wanted to make that time for you guys.
It's a special time too.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
But um I I met Ed Lorraine Warren, and Lorraine
recognized something to me, andwhen after the show was over, um
you get to go backstage andvisit with them, and she skipped
everybody moving crowd came outto me, and uh she says, Honey,
you've been having problems.
And everybody that knows Ed andLorraine knows that Lorraine
(02:49):
called everybody Honey, and Edwould call everybody Kid.
So those are their little petnames for everybody.
unknown (02:55):
And uh so she recognized me, and then I
started trying to figure outwhat it was all about.
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
So I went to the house a few times over the years
and and got to really um figureout what it was all about, how
to control it, and um developingmy skills to help the building
blocks, learning from them tobuild and go on my own journey
and help the living and thedead, which is what I've been
(03:22):
doing for the last uh 40 yearsuh of doing this, and I've met a
lot of great people along theway, but along the way you get a
lot of that, you take thoseskills, and my my first foray
after college uh is as a as anemergency medical technician,
and with that being an empathand being able to see things, uh
(03:44):
it was weird, you know, you goto an accident scene and watch
uh people's uh spirits leavetheir body uh and things like
that.
It it got a little much overtime.
Um I was still trying to learnhow to create boundaries and
control what I had.
Um from there, I I got into umyou know a background, I do have
(04:05):
a background in psychology, uh,but when I started using that
more when I lived in Florida, Iworked for the Department of
Corrections.
I was a criminal behaviorist,and um one of my jobs was to
profile inmates.
So in case there was a crisis atone of the prisons in Region
Three, which I I saw over as thecrisis negotiator for the
(04:25):
region, um, I would have toprofile the inmates and to
figure out something went wrong,what we were gonna do about it,
how we were gonna control thesituation by knowing what makes
them tick.
And that turned into um a careerin the not only paranormal but
true crime, uh, which Icurrently do a podcast every
Monday at eight o'clock calledSerial Killer Supernatural
(04:46):
Murders on um All Access NetworkTV, which carries on YouTube,
Facebook, all the differentplatforms that you could see it
on.
But mostly my my first foraywas, of course, into the
paranormal.
After 40 years, uh close to II'd say I'm probably past a
thousand home investigations.
Um, but my home investigationsaren't what you see on TV.
(05:08):
Children folks out there on uhpodcast land.
Uh I don't do the same thingyou'd see.
I've been doing this sincebefore there was TV shows.
My whole job was to go in andmake sure that if there was
something paranormal going on,if there was something
psychological going on, but tomake sure that the client was
(05:28):
treated in a 360 way and not alinear way, where I was gonna go
and get footage and then pop itup on YouTube or something.
No, it was more of let's seewhat's going on.
Let's um take a look at thewhole thing.
Are they manifesting thishunting through um a trauma or
anything like that?
Um, and that's kind of where Imet you, Jenny, was at Ohio
(05:50):
State Reformatory with my othercounterpart, Stacia Wills.
We run a group called Wardruna,which is what I'm talking about.
We take in like aninvestigation, we figure out
somebody is creating um theirtrauma, their PTSD is creating
the haunting.
Well, we have people on ourstaff with Wardruna that um are
(06:11):
licensed um psychologists,things like that, and and we'll
bring them to our people thatbelieve in what we do, uh run
them through the process, andthen bring it back.
And a lot of times the hauntinggoes away because of that.
So we're treating them theholistically the whole way.
We never leave our clients uhhigh and dry or anything like
that.
And that's what Roardrona does.
unknown (06:31):
It's a whole other monster.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
But also for me, yeah, also for me as the
Archangel, the paranormal, uh,that was always been my moniker.
Um, and you know, doing this forso long, I also am part of an
events group called uh TheShaman and the Showman.
Of course, I'm the shaman, mycounterpart.
Um Charles Rosene is theshowman, and if you ever met
(06:54):
him, you would know why he's theshowman.
Uh and he does a lot of uh toursall over you know England for he
does Beatle tours, Dracula Toursof Transylvania.
Also, uh currently this wholeOctober, we do a haunted trolley
event.
Uh this year's theme, it's likea murder mystery every year, but
we change it up.
We have actors on the trolley.
(07:14):
You don't know who the actorsare, just think it's another
person on the trolley.
Uh, and um this year's theme isalien invasion, so you have to
figure out which person is is isuh not really a human, that
they're actually an alien.
I have quite one.
And that runs all that sober.
SPEAKER_03 (07:29):
Yep.
Have you ever been toTransylvania?
unknown (07:33):
I haven't.
I haven't been to Romania orTransylvania.
Uh Charles runs that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
It's like he does his thing.
I have my thing, we have ourthing together.
Or Druna is what I do with uhStasia Wills, and we have uh uh
a whole bunch of otherpractitioners, uh and uh, you
know, other shamans, otherpsychic mediums, uh hypnotists,
uh people that do EMDR therapy,you name it, uh, we we have it
(07:57):
uh just to make sure we treatour clients properly.
But no, I've never been toTransylvania.
I'd love to go.
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
Sooner or later I will.
My dad's uh my dad's side's fromTransylvania, so that's I've got
I have some really old photos.
It's gonna go.
Well just go on Drack Tours,D-R-A-C tours.com, and you could
get a ticket.
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
And Charles doesn't really go himself anymore.
He re he greets you at the uhJFK Airport, uh flies you off
there, and there's a local thatdoes the tour for him now.
Um he stopped doing it a fewyears back because it falls in
October when he sends everybodyout.
Uh so on on Halloween, the tourstops at the uh Vlad the
(08:42):
Impaler's castle, and you staythere for the night on
Halloween.
SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
I won't that's a bucket list for me.
I'll get out there one day.
I wonder how expensive aircraftis to there right now.
Oh yeah.
Imagine.
SPEAKER_03 (08:54):
Nice.
unknown (08:55):
Yeah, there's there's so many things that we do.
We Charles and I will do ghostuh we'll take people out, we'll
teach them how to ghost hunt uhproperly.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Uh, and we do events, psychic fairs, we do the
big events, uh ConnecticutParacon, which passed July.
Our next one coming up is theSalem Paracon and Horror Fest.
That'll be uh November 15th inSalem, Massachusetts.
Uh we've been doing that forfour years.
Connecticut just had our fifthfifth one.
(09:24):
Uh, we also do a uh newer one.
It's our second year.
That was in August.
It's the Connecticut WitchFestival.
Um, a lot of people don't knowhistorically, if you know.
I'm a big historian.
Um, I think you can't do aparanormal investigation unless
you know the history beforegoing in to do it properly.
But we learned that um inConnecticut, after 360 some odd
(09:49):
years, the court system and theancestors of people that were uh
accused of witchcraft here inConnecticut were finally
exonerated.
What makes it crazy is everybodywhen you say witchcraft, they
think of Salem.
The witch trials actuallystarted, the first ones in our
new world of our countryhappened in Connecticut 45 years
(10:09):
before Salem.
Uh so there was over elevenpeople hung uh for supposed
witchcraft and uh so right wherethe old state house is in
Hartford, that used to be afield, that's where they hung
everybody back in the 1600s.
So there's a lot of energythere.
SPEAKER_02 (10:26):
Yeah, that's I think a lot of people um don't they
don't actually read or look intohistory, they just kind of take
what is said on the internet,because I've had conversations
with people where they thinkthat witches were burned in
Salem, and I'm like, there wasthere was actually nobody burned
during the Salem House trials.
unknown (10:44):
They were all hung.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Uh there was a couple people that were put to
the water test in Connecticut.
Yeah, and then uh yeah, that wasum oh, I met somebody that it
was a distant relative of hisgot in Giles Coring.
Yeah, or Giles Giles, whateverhow people pronounce it
differently.
But yeah, he just kept sayingadd more weight.
(11:07):
It was a defiance.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Um it was a defiance, you know.
And that he was like that for acouple days.
And uh that'd be a horrible wayto go.
But um it would brain.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
It would, but for him to admit something that he
wasn't, uh, that's more of yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
No, I I I give him a lot of credit for that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Um to go that way, but to never admit that you
actually aren't something.
And really after he was that wasdone to him, really, the thing
settled down there.
So I think it's a final defianceto tell people, hey, look at us
different.
Same thing in Connecticut.
Um, there was a governor whospent a lot of time over in
England at the time.
unknown (11:45):
Of course, you know, we weren't really a country per se,
yeah, still under British rule.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
But um there was a governor that was real his
father was a governor inMassachusetts, but he became the
governor of Connecticut, but hespent a lot of time over in
Europe at the time.
It's like, how do you be agovernor if you don't even spend
any time in your own state?
But that's besides the point.
Because of that, he had learnedfrom other people in England
(12:10):
about you know alchemy and thoseare the big things at the time.
So with that knowledge ofalchemy coming back and having
all these people accuse thepeople of his state that he was
governing of witchcraft, he'slike, No, no, no, no.
So he stepped in and a lot ofthat stopped.
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Now, if I remember reading on you correctly, you
are a demonologist too, correct?
Oh, sorry.
Go ahead, no, go ahead.
No, I don't want to shy.
I don't want to steal your shy.
You go, you no, you go.
Okay, well, I will ask you thisbefore you ask them.
Do you think demons arephysically real beings, or are
they like festered up?
SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
Who are you asking?
Both of you.
Oh gosh.
So who goes first?
Oh, I well, my thing is that andthis is, you know, I am a
Christian, so I believe demonsare fallen angels.
Okay.
That's the second time I heardthat.
I believe that's what they are.
I don't believe that they are aseasy to find or are I don't
(13:17):
believe they can possess peopleas easy as people think.
I think Hollywood has made aHollywood and one specific
investigator I'm not a fan ofhas made a huge, uh huge
spectacle of that and has madepeople think that if you say
you're a paranormal investigatoror you go into a haunted house
that you're automaticallyworshipping demons and trying to
(13:39):
contact demons, and that crapgets under my skin so bad
because I don't think it hasanything.
I mean, I yes, I think they'reout there, but I believe they're
more in the form of a JohnWingacy or a Ted Hundy, or to me
that is demonic.
They're here to destroy mankindand souls and all that kind of
stuff.
They're not here to peek arounda corner.
(14:00):
Could it be the past lifethough, of someone's like
residual pain and torment?
I think that that's more of likea um more of uh like negative
energy or a residual hauntingtype deal where you walk in and
you're like, wow, this feelsreally heavy.
Like heavy, okay.
I personally do not think thatthat's demonic.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (14:20):
Now let's hear from the specialist.
Yes.
I don't know if I was accurate.
Please tell me how how you thinkof my judgment on uh Well we'll
look at it this nobody's ahundred percent right or wrong
about the paranormal, evendemons.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
Um, what we perceive is what we perceive.
Now, having the moniker ademonologist doesn't mean I
fight demons, which technicallyI am part of the person that
will help you with the 1%, whichI call it.
99% of the time is what we callis a familiar demon.
Are you guys familiar with that?
Yes.
Familiar demons are justbasically what we create
(14:55):
ourselves.
Um, if you're an alcoholic, uhyou have that demon of of
alcoholism that really keeps youfrom pressing forward on your
journey.
Once you but the thing is, isonce you overcome that and you
stop drinking, doesn't meanyou're not an alcoholic anymore.
You still are.
It's just creating dust on ashelf.
(15:16):
Um familiar demons never reallyleave you.
They're always there, keepingthem at bay and not inviting
them.
You always say in the movies,don't invite a vampire in
because then they have you.
So you don't want to invitethese things in or give them
energy.
So when you talk about thisstuff too much, people ask me
about my demonic cases all thetime.
(15:36):
I don't talk about them.
The reason being is I will nevergive it energy again for the
fact that I don't want to bringit back into the client's life.
Um, you know, the client doesn'twant it anymore.
You know, we help them overcomethat, and it it won't come back
because a lot of times it's justlike us, there you're you're
right, they are fallen angels,and most of the higher end ones,
(16:00):
uh whatever you say, devil,Satan, whatever, doesn't have
time to be messing withso-and-so in Indiana that's
having uh, you know, a problem.
It it's mostly lower level umdemons that 1% is it's a lower
level style to it.
Um, and those are usually easierto deal with.
(16:22):
Uh there are things that are alittle harder to deal with, but
sometimes it's a combination ofthe real demon being there along
with the familiar demon on topof this.
So there's a lot of layers toit, which makes it difficult to
help and solve.
Um, exorcisms aren't necessarilyonly done by the Catholic
Church.
Me as a shaman, I'm able to dothose as a shaman with uh
(16:43):
spiritual getting beyond theveil and being able to
communicate, which is I get ahard time about my partner that
I work with, Stasia Wills.
We do have the ability tocommunicate.
Uh so there's a communicationwith what is perceived as a
demon or a lower level demon.
You have that communication,people think it's bad.
(17:04):
No, it's the same thing.
If I try to have a conversationwith my mortal enemy, I try and
come to a conclusion.
So am I gonna spiritually fightthem or are they just gonna go
away?
Uh, do you want to fight or doyou not want to fight?
That's kind of what it comesdown to.
Um, but there's so much behindit, there's so many layers, and
anytime somebody says they're ademonologist and all that, all
(17:25):
it is is just I have theknowledge.
Um people that say they'redemonologists aren't necessarily
somebody that faced that energy.
Um, unfortunately, in my life Ifaced the energy three times.
Um I never want to do it again.
Uh, but if somebody needs me, Ido have the knowledge and I will
help them because of that's thetype of person I am.
But if I never have to do itagain, I'll be happy because
(17:47):
I've had things happen that willnever leave you for the rest of
your life and never wish it.
And all these people that say,Oh, I want to see it, no, you
don't.
No, you don't.
And that's a warning for me.
Um, I've seen it and I neverwant to see it again.
And uh I just pray that peopleprotect themselves and not
(18:08):
conjure that or not give thatenergy or not use that as an
intent, uh, you know, becauseit'll it'll play havoc on your
life, and again, it'll never goaway.
It'll always be there.
It goes dormant.
It goes dormant, but it couldreawaken with the wrong intent
and attitude and energy.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
And see, it's funny that you say stuff like that
because I've always been a huge,I know Melissa's heard me say
this, I've always been a hugebeliever on a lot of places you
go to, you get the energy thatyou bring in.
And I've also been a hugebeliever on like, especially
with protection and what youallow in an investigation, has
to do with intent.
(18:46):
Um that's why, like, when I domy lives or even when I do an
investigation, if somethingcomes through and says demon or
says devil, I say nope.
And I always say that.
I'm always like, nope, we're nottalking to anything with that.
If that's your intent, you needto leave.
We want to find out who needs,you know, help here, who's here
talking to us, that type ofthing.
Um and that's why even when youprotect yourself, I think if you
(19:08):
say it with intent that nothingis allowed to like follow you or
hurt you or influence it's allabout intent.
I'm a huge believer in that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:16):
I do agree with him.
I have seen more self-possessiondemonic behavior with addiction.
Oh, yeah.
Then I could never be scared ofin any kind of hobby or that
kind of stuff changes your wholelike your I've seen the face
turn black completely changelike it it's just it's like
(19:38):
well, I think it just it opensthose proverbial windows.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Like it totally alters your chemicals, it alters
your brain, all that kind ofstuff.
Like that stuff is moredangerous than I think people
realize.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
Started 40 years ago.
Um, the experiences that I'vehad, um, I do at this moment, um
we do have several investigativeteams that go in for war adjuna,
and it is a last resort if I'mcalled in or have to fly into
that particular house that wewere called into.
(20:13):
Um, it's gotta be really badbecause I don't really do home
investigations anymore.
Um, because of what I've donethousands over the years,
whether it be something quick onthe phone or a long, longer, you
know, people say that, likethousands, like holy smokes.
Sometimes it I could solvesomething with a phone call.
It's still considered a case, soit's still a case file.
(20:33):
Um, or something that I gottaspend, you know, weeks on going
back and forth.
Nothing solves on the firsttime.
You could go bless a house, itdoesn't solve on the first time.
A lot of times it's the peoplethat live there, uh, they say
they want it gone, but deep downthey don't.
And so there's that that battleuh with the living and the dead.
(20:54):
The living that don't want it togo away.
If they keep saying they want itto go away, you go bless their
house, but they still maintainthat energy that brought it
there, and it just keepshaunting over and over again.
So until they make the finaldecision deep down to want it
gone, it's just gonna keepcoming back.
Uh nothing I can do about it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
You know, it's kind of uh it's too hard to do.
Like you said, get uhsustainable evidence, like over
I mean, I've had some reallycool experiences and some really
cool stuff that I've been ableto solidify in like actual death
certificates, but even evenstill, it's just it's too hard
to prove, but that's what leavesus, you know, leaving places and
(21:34):
asking more questions andwanting to go back.
Yeah.
And uh I've actually beenquestions where they've said
that or they've had that in liketheir, you know, little rule
sheet where you cannot I stillthink they wrote it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:46):
I think they wrote it because of me.
Yeah, and I'm like uh so youknow that's some of these people
that own these places have seenme work and uh yeah, I don't
know.
unknown (21:57):
I kind of make the joke.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
Yeah, they probably wrote that, but it it's kind of
funny, but you know.
If you've investigated with me,then if you've been there, you
know, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
Yeah, that's uh I think that is pretty funny.
And I think today a lot ofthings are it's gone off the
beaten path from wanting to getevidence and you know, have more
evidence to back up claims ofhauntings and you know there
being spirits and the other sideand all that.
Now people just want views.
It's like they don't even know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:29):
Well if you get yeah, if you get footage, okay,
you get a footage of a ghost,great.
Okay, now what?
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:38):
If you can't answer now what, then what are you
doing?
unknown (22:41):
Give 'em the the ways to be able to get through it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
So again, if you can't do that, um, it's not
about dressing all in black,folding your arms for the
pictures and being tattooed uhevery inch of your body, and you
know, I know that's great.
I'm not gonna knock anybody, butuh yeah, uh let's let's do it
for the right reasons and not tolook pretty on the camera.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
So I'm like yeah, I'll knock that person that uh
that fits that description.
unknown (23:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:11):
But uh like move out of the road, locations.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
And uh yeah, no, that's justwhat and I think they get, you
know, shows like that, like evenwhen I watch shows that do an
investigation and seem likethey're doing it legit and quote
unquote scientifically and thenat the end they just show the
(23:34):
owner, like, you know, yes,here's a shadow figure, and it's
like they already like you said,they already knew their house
was haunted.
Like, what do you what's yourshadow figure?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
All right, you called us in because yeah, you
called us in because you'rescared and what's going on.
Well, yeah, there's a ghosthere.
See you later, have fun.
Yeah, you didn't do anything.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
I thought too, I'm like, I've thought that so many
times.
I'm like, well, did they likesend someone in to help them?
Like, what was the resolution?
Like they already I alwaysthought that was that was super.
SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
My problem with the damn ghost shows is that it all
starts the same, it all ends thesame.
That's why a lot of my evidenceI will never put out there.
There's I mean, I have hours andhours and hours.
I mean, like with my body camand stuff.
One day before I leave thisworld, I'm gonna make a little
mini documentary.
It's probably gonna be on likeequivalent to VHS, what it's
(24:25):
cost now, twenty years from now,for my son to be like, hey, do
what you want with it, but thisis like what happened, you know?
And when I leave this world, ifpeople can watch it, I don't
care, but it's like I that's whyI don't post a lot of shit
because everybody's alwaystrying to like it's like they're
atta they're plowing everyonedown to get to the top.
(24:46):
It's like, but what the fuck isthe top?
Because we can't when we leave,we leave.
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Our knowledge about while we're alive is Well, and
no one can no one can reallyprove anything unless you can
get No, what I mean, unless youcan get a name, unless you can
get something, like you can'teven for sure say there's ways
though of finding outinformation and communicating
(25:10):
and not just being like, hey,what's your name?
SPEAKER_03 (25:12):
What's your last name?
How did you die?
Or here's this picture of thisorb.
Well, who gives a shit?
Everybody has seen pictures.
Like it's more like it's deeperthan that.
You know what I mean?
Um it's also putting together apuzzle sometimes because
sometimes they they have todevelop so much energy to get
across and talk and like they'rehalf words, and there's a bunch
(25:33):
of random words you're like,okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:35):
No, that's why, like, so out of so I used to
work, and I I'll actually saythe name now, but I used to work
at Eloise.
I worked there for about sixyears, and one of out of six
years, I was able to take one,one experience and link it up to
an actual news article of ayoung woman um dying the way
that it came across to us thatshe died.
SPEAKER_03 (25:57):
You guys can get to the Lizzie Borden house and do
the walking, the walking uhhistory tour.
Matt, I think is his name.
I still have his cart down here.
The history of that place isfrickin' amazing.
Like it goes way, like waydeeper than just it w I was just
so fascinated.
unknown (26:17):
Well, it is, it isn't just the Lizzie Borden house.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
There's Maple Croft where she moved to after.
That's for sure.
Yeah, behind the Lizzie Bordenhouse, I don't think it exists
anymore.
I think it's a Lizzie Bordencoffee shop now.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Um where the house that used to be there was Lizzie
Borden's, I don't know if it washer aunt or some relative where
she went crazy and killed herchildren and threw them down the
water.
Well then yeah, so there's thehouse, right?
Yeah.
So there's a lot of um death andand despair and negativity just
(26:48):
in that one area of Fall River,Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_03 (26:51):
So before that, too, the fire.
That was crazy.
The kid that started the fire.
Yep.
It's just insane.
That I never would have knownbecause they they how come they
don't like show that more, likeon any of the shows or the
documentaries?
Like that's what the thehistory, like you were talking
about, Jenny, they don't showthe history.
No, well that's the thing isthat's where we make a mistake.
(27:12):
Five years.
Um people hear the lore, theyhear the falsehoods, and they
don't hear the other stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
That when you hear the other stuff, sometimes the
haunting makes a little moresense.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
A cemetery, um, over this way called Soup Cemetery,
and there's a quote unquotesupposed witch.
SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
There's three different groups.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
Oh god, yeah.
unknown (27:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
It's a fear.
Uh it it still happens today,uh, especially I on on a line.
Yeah.
Um everybody thinks they knowone side and they get everybody
to jump on the bandwagon, andhappens all the time.
There's still people whoconsider that the witch panic
still happens in like Africa andstuff, uh, just the same way it
did back in the 1600s.
(28:13):
You know, it's just not in thenews.
They they'd rather put otherstuff in the news to keep us
from that knowledge.
Again, train yourself, don'tbelieve everything you see.
Uh train uh you know, train yourbrain, you know, do some
reading, do your research, doall your history.
Uh it just makes everything a alittle more it makes you more
knowledgeable of what you'retrying to help people with.
SPEAKER_03 (28:36):
So you have to go out with him, he's a retired
officer, he's knowledgeable,he's like the perfect person to
go out with.
They don't go out to thecemeteries with we be protected.
SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
Yeah, so I don't know what the officers would say
because the thing is is Iretired, I was a Department of
Corrections, so but uh I did gothrough all that type of
training because with profilingand doing crisis management, you
have to go through BSU trainingthrough uh we went through the
FBI at uh Tampa.
Uh so that's where we went ourtraining down in Florida.
(29:08):
But uh yeah, you know, you stillget to talk to a lot of the
people.
That the street that I lived ondown in Florida where I rented
my house, there was ten houseson the street, and all ten of us
were law enforcement of somesort.
That was the street you didn'twant to go down if you wanted to
to do your uh you know bornagain thing or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Yeah.
That's funny.
You don't want to go down ourstreet.
But uh funny.
All right.
Well, thank you for talking tous.
Thank you.
Yeah.
No problem.
Yeah, we'll definitely have todo this again, whether it's
through StreamYard or some otherway.
We'll figure it out.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
unknown (29:48):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, you gotta find a platformthat's gonna work best for you.
Again, you know, I'm always hereto help.
Uh I I just you guys greatquestions.
Uh I wanna see you guys all dowell.
And uh
SPEAKER_03 (30:00):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Whatever I can do to help you out, you know, I'm here
for you.
I got the resources to help youout.
So that's why I like to use themto help out people doing the
right thing.
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (30:10):
So what we thought was the actual platform issue
was um actually the interfacewith the microphone.
So again, there's always goingto be technical difficulties,
and especially when I haven'tbeen on here in a while.
Um I guess it's part of the fun,but I think I got it figured
(30:31):
out.
My husband, of course, Paul thetech guy, um, figured it out
this morning, and everythingseems to be working good.
So I'm sorry if it's a littlegrainy in the beginning, you
guys.
Um, I just did what I could andworked with this, and I I I had
to put this on here because thisinterview was very important to
Jenny.
(30:51):
You know, she does a lot of workbehind the scenes to um get
these people to hop on here.
So I hope everything soundswell, and um I will be talking
to you guys soon.
Hello everyone, welcome back to Strange Drange
Beyond Insane.
Um, well, besides taking asiesta here for what, I think 10
weeks, uh, had a whole whole asshuman come out of me, so I've
been kind of preoccupied, and wehave now sat around with both of
our guests for almost two hoursum with technical difficulties
(00:24):
because Jenny was talking aboutthe hat man.
I'm just kidding.
Anyways, I'm gonna let Jennytake this over with um someone
very cool and a very colorfulbackground in the paranormal
world.
And uh yeah, Jenny, go ahead andreintroduce yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
So I'm Jenny.
Um, my page on Facebook isHaunted Places82.
Um, and yeah, we have a veryspecial guest.
Um I met him at the Ohio StateReformatory Paracon.
And um yeah, he told me abouthis background, and I was like,
wow, like I need to have you onthe podcast.
So, Tom, um, I'm gonna kindahave you do an introduction of
(01:06):
yourself because I think youwould be able to say it a whole
lot better than I would.
You've been involved in so much.
Um, but yeah, if you can goahead and do that.
unknown (01:16):
Perfect.
I'm glad that you guys have meon.
I'm glad we're figuring it allout.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
But uh, yeah, Ohio State.
I mentioned Ohio Statereformatory.
Uh one of my favorite placesbecause they filmed Shaw Shank
Redemption there, my favoritemovie of all time.
So um, I I go back a little bit.
unknown (01:38):
I my big joke for everybody that was asking how
I've been doing this for Ialways tell them I've been doing
this uh uh since uh the TC wasonly sick.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
So my things I I go back uh my teen years probably
um I always had abilities Iwould say things, uh, don't
understand why I would feelthings, don't understand why I
went from happy to angry in amatter of a couple seconds just
by moving into a room.
(02:09):
Uh I want to go see a Halloweenspecial Central Connecticut here
uh near Britain, Connecticut,where I'm currently at.
Um I'm in the process of movingout to Ohio as we talk, uh, but
um I'm glad you guys have me onin the middle of my move.
unknown (02:23):
So I wanted to make that time for you guys.
It's a special time too.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
But um I I met Ed Lorraine Warren, and Lorraine
recognized something to me, andwhen after the show was over, um
you get to go backstage andvisit with them, and she skipped
everybody moving crowd came outto me, and uh she says, Honey,
you've been having problems.
And everybody that knows Ed andLorraine knows that Lorraine
(02:49):
called everybody Honey, and Edwould call everybody Kid.
So those are their little petnames for everybody.
unknown (02:55):
And uh so she recognized me, and then I
started trying to figure outwhat it was all about.
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
So I went to the house a few times over the years
and and got to really um figureout what it was all about, how
to control it, and um developingmy skills to help the building
blocks, learning from them tobuild and go on my own journey
and help the living and thedead, which is what I've been
(03:22):
doing for the last uh 40 yearsuh of doing this, and I've met a
lot of great people along theway, but along the way you get a
lot of that, you take thoseskills, and my my first foray
after college uh is as a as anemergency medical technician,
and with that being an empathand being able to see things, uh
(03:44):
it was weird, you know, you goto an accident scene and watch
uh people's uh spirits leavetheir body uh and things like
that.
It it got a little much overtime.
Um I was still trying to learnhow to create boundaries and
control what I had.
Um from there, I I got into umyou know a background, I do have
(04:05):
a background in psychology, uh,but when I started using that
more when I lived in Florida, Iworked for the Department of
Corrections.
I was a criminal behaviorist,and um one of my jobs was to
profile inmates.
So in case there was a crisis atone of the prisons in Region
Three, which I I saw over as thecrisis negotiator for the
(04:25):
region, um, I would have toprofile the inmates and to
figure out something went wrong,what we were gonna do about it,
how we were gonna control thesituation by knowing what makes
them tick.
And that turned into um a careerin the not only paranormal but
true crime, uh, which Icurrently do a podcast every
Monday at eight o'clock calledSerial Killer Supernatural
(04:46):
Murders on um All Access NetworkTV, which carries on YouTube,
Facebook, all the differentplatforms that you could see it
on.
But mostly my my first foraywas, of course, into the
paranormal.
After 40 years, uh close to II'd say I'm probably past a
thousand home investigations.
Um, but my home investigationsaren't what you see on TV.
(05:08):
Children folks out there on uhpodcast land.
Uh I don't do the same thingyou'd see.
I've been doing this sincebefore there was TV shows.
My whole job was to go in andmake sure that if there was
something paranormal going on,if there was something
psychological going on, but tomake sure that the client was
(05:28):
treated in a 360 way and not alinear way, where I was gonna go
and get footage and then pop itup on YouTube or something.
No, it was more of let's seewhat's going on.
Let's um take a look at thewhole thing.
Are they manifesting thishunting through um a trauma or
anything like that?
Um, and that's kind of where Imet you, Jenny, was at Ohio
(05:50):
State Reformatory with my othercounterpart, Stacia Wills.
We run a group called Wardruna,which is what I'm talking about.
We take in like aninvestigation, we figure out
somebody is creating um theirtrauma, their PTSD is creating
the haunting.
Well, we have people on ourstaff with Wardruna that um are
(06:11):
licensed um psychologists,things like that, and and we'll
bring them to our people thatbelieve in what we do, uh run
them through the process, andthen bring it back.
And a lot of times the hauntinggoes away because of that.
So we're treating them theholistically the whole way.
We never leave our clients uhhigh and dry or anything like
that.
And that's what Roardrona does.
unknown (06:31):
It's a whole other monster.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
But also for me, yeah, also for me as the
Archangel, the paranormal, uh,that was always been my moniker.
Um, and you know, doing this forso long, I also am part of an
events group called uh TheShaman and the Showman.
Of course, I'm the shaman, mycounterpart.
Um Charles Rosene is theshowman, and if you ever met
(06:54):
him, you would know why he's theshowman.
Uh and he does a lot of uh toursall over you know England for he
does Beatle tours, Dracula Toursof Transylvania.
Also, uh currently this wholeOctober, we do a haunted trolley
event.
Uh this year's theme, it's likea murder mystery every year, but
we change it up.
We have actors on the trolley.
(07:14):
You don't know who the actorsare, just think it's another
person on the trolley.
Uh, and um this year's theme isalien invasion, so you have to
figure out which person is is isuh not really a human, that
they're actually an alien.
I have quite one.
And that runs all that sober.
SPEAKER_03 (07:29):
Yep.
Have you ever been toTransylvania?
unknown (07:33):
I haven't.
I haven't been to Romania orTransylvania.
Uh Charles runs that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
It's like he does his thing.
I have my thing, we have ourthing together.
Or Druna is what I do with uhStasia Wills, and we have uh uh
a whole bunch of otherpractitioners, uh and uh, you
know, other shamans, otherpsychic mediums, uh hypnotists,
uh people that do EMDR therapy,you name it, uh, we we have it
(07:57):
uh just to make sure we treatour clients properly.
But no, I've never been toTransylvania.
I'd love to go.
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
Sooner or later I will.
My dad's uh my dad's side's fromTransylvania, so that's I've got
I have some really old photos.
It's gonna go.
Well just go on Drack Tours,D-R-A-C tours.com, and you could
get a ticket.
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
And Charles doesn't really go himself anymore.
He re he greets you at the uhJFK Airport, uh flies you off
there, and there's a local thatdoes the tour for him now.
Um he stopped doing it a fewyears back because it falls in
October when he sends everybodyout.
Uh so on on Halloween, the tourstops at the uh Vlad the
(08:42):
Impaler's castle, and you staythere for the night on
Halloween.
SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
I won't that's a bucket list for me.
I'll get out there one day.
I wonder how expensive aircraftis to there right now.
Oh yeah.
Imagine.
SPEAKER_03 (08:54):
Nice.
unknown (08:55):
Yeah, there's there's so many things that we do.
We Charles and I will do ghostuh we'll take people out, we'll
teach them how to ghost hunt uhproperly.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Uh, and we do events, psychic fairs, we do the
big events, uh ConnecticutParacon, which passed July.
Our next one coming up is theSalem Paracon and Horror Fest.
That'll be uh November 15th inSalem, Massachusetts.
Uh we've been doing that forfour years.
Connecticut just had our fifthfifth one.
(09:24):
Uh, we also do a uh newer one.
It's our second year.
That was in August.
It's the Connecticut WitchFestival.
Um, a lot of people don't knowhistorically, if you know.
I'm a big historian.
Um, I think you can't do aparanormal investigation unless
you know the history beforegoing in to do it properly.
But we learned that um inConnecticut, after 360 some odd
(09:49):
years, the court system and theancestors of people that were uh
accused of witchcraft here inConnecticut were finally
exonerated.
What makes it crazy is everybodywhen you say witchcraft, they
think of Salem.
The witch trials actuallystarted, the first ones in our
new world of our countryhappened in Connecticut 45 years
(10:09):
before Salem.
Uh so there was over elevenpeople hung uh for supposed
witchcraft and uh so right wherethe old state house is in
Hartford, that used to be afield, that's where they hung
everybody back in the 1600s.
So there's a lot of energythere.
SPEAKER_02 (10:26):
Yeah, that's I think a lot of people um don't they
don't actually read or look intohistory, they just kind of take
what is said on the internet,because I've had conversations
with people where they thinkthat witches were burned in
Salem, and I'm like, there wasthere was actually nobody burned
during the Salem House trials.
unknown (10:44):
They were all hung.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Uh there was a couple people that were put to
the water test in Connecticut.
Yeah, and then uh yeah, that wasum oh, I met somebody that it
was a distant relative of hisgot in Giles Coring.
Yeah, or Giles Giles, whateverhow people pronounce it
differently.
But yeah, he just kept sayingadd more weight.
(11:07):
It was a defiance.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Um it was a defiance, you know.
And that he was like that for acouple days.
And uh that'd be a horrible wayto go.
But um it would brain.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
It would, but for him to admit something that he
wasn't, uh, that's more of yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
No, I I I give him a lot of credit for that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Um to go that way, but to never admit that you
actually aren't something.
And really after he was that wasdone to him, really, the thing
settled down there.
So I think it's a final defianceto tell people, hey, look at us
different.
Same thing in Connecticut.
Um, there was a governor whospent a lot of time over in
England at the time.
unknown (11:45):
Of course, you know, we weren't really a country per se,
yeah, still under British rule.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
But um there was a governor that was real his
father was a governor inMassachusetts, but he became the
governor of Connecticut, but hespent a lot of time over in
Europe at the time.
It's like, how do you be agovernor if you don't even spend
any time in your own state?
But that's besides the point.
Because of that, he had learnedfrom other people in England
(12:10):
about you know alchemy and thoseare the big things at the time.
So with that knowledge ofalchemy coming back and having
all these people accuse thepeople of his state that he was
governing of witchcraft, he'slike, No, no, no, no.
So he stepped in and a lot ofthat stopped.
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Now, if I remember reading on you correctly, you
are a demonologist too, correct?
Oh, sorry.
Go ahead, no, go ahead.
No, I don't want to shy.
I don't want to steal your shy.
You go, you no, you go.
Okay, well, I will ask you thisbefore you ask them.
Do you think demons arephysically real beings, or are
they like festered up?
SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
Who are you asking?
Both of you.
Oh gosh.
So who goes first?
Oh, I well, my thing is that andthis is, you know, I am a
Christian, so I believe demonsare fallen angels.
Okay.
That's the second time I heardthat.
I believe that's what they are.
I don't believe that they are aseasy to find or are I don't
(13:17):
believe they can possess peopleas easy as people think.
I think Hollywood has made aHollywood and one specific
investigator I'm not a fan ofhas made a huge, uh huge
spectacle of that and has madepeople think that if you say
you're a paranormal investigatoror you go into a haunted house
that you're automaticallyworshipping demons and trying to
(13:39):
contact demons, and that crapgets under my skin so bad
because I don't think it hasanything.
I mean, I yes, I think they'reout there, but I believe they're
more in the form of a JohnWingacy or a Ted Hundy, or to me
that is demonic.
They're here to destroy mankindand souls and all that kind of
stuff.
They're not here to peek arounda corner.
(14:00):
Could it be the past lifethough, of someone's like
residual pain and torment?
I think that that's more of likea um more of uh like negative
energy or a residual hauntingtype deal where you walk in and
you're like, wow, this feelsreally heavy.
Like heavy, okay.
I personally do not think thatthat's demonic.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (14:20):
Now let's hear from the specialist.
Yes.
I don't know if I was accurate.
Please tell me how how you thinkof my judgment on uh Well we'll
look at it this nobody's ahundred percent right or wrong
about the paranormal, evendemons.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
Um, what we perceive is what we perceive.
Now, having the moniker ademonologist doesn't mean I
fight demons, which technicallyI am part of the person that
will help you with the 1%, whichI call it.
99% of the time is what we callis a familiar demon.
Are you guys familiar with that?
Yes.
Familiar demons are justbasically what we create
(14:55):
ourselves.
Um, if you're an alcoholic, uhyou have that demon of of
alcoholism that really keeps youfrom pressing forward on your
journey.
Once you but the thing is, isonce you overcome that and you
stop drinking, doesn't meanyou're not an alcoholic anymore.
You still are.
It's just creating dust on ashelf.
(15:16):
Um familiar demons never reallyleave you.
They're always there, keepingthem at bay and not inviting
them.
You always say in the movies,don't invite a vampire in
because then they have you.
So you don't want to invitethese things in or give them
energy.
So when you talk about thisstuff too much, people ask me
about my demonic cases all thetime.
(15:36):
I don't talk about them.
The reason being is I will nevergive it energy again for the
fact that I don't want to bringit back into the client's life.
Um, you know, the client doesn'twant it anymore.
You know, we help them overcomethat, and it it won't come back
because a lot of times it's justlike us, there you're you're
right, they are fallen angels,and most of the higher end ones,
(16:00):
uh whatever you say, devil,Satan, whatever, doesn't have
time to be messing withso-and-so in Indiana that's
having uh, you know, a problem.
It it's mostly lower level umdemons that 1% is it's a lower
level style to it.
Um, and those are usually easierto deal with.
(16:22):
Uh there are things that are alittle harder to deal with, but
sometimes it's a combination ofthe real demon being there along
with the familiar demon on topof this.
So there's a lot of layers toit, which makes it difficult to
help and solve.
Um, exorcisms aren't necessarilyonly done by the Catholic
Church.
Me as a shaman, I'm able to dothose as a shaman with uh
(16:43):
spiritual getting beyond theveil and being able to
communicate, which is I get ahard time about my partner that
I work with, Stasia Wills.
We do have the ability tocommunicate.
Uh so there's a communicationwith what is perceived as a
demon or a lower level demon.
You have that communication,people think it's bad.
(17:04):
No, it's the same thing.
If I try to have a conversationwith my mortal enemy, I try and
come to a conclusion.
So am I gonna spiritually fightthem or are they just gonna go
away?
Uh, do you want to fight or doyou not want to fight?
That's kind of what it comesdown to.
Um, but there's so much behindit, there's so many layers, and
anytime somebody says they're ademonologist and all that, all
(17:25):
it is is just I have theknowledge.
Um people that say they'redemonologists aren't necessarily
somebody that faced that energy.
Um, unfortunately, in my life Ifaced the energy three times.
Um I never want to do it again.
Uh, but if somebody needs me, Ido have the knowledge and I will
help them because of that's thetype of person I am.
But if I never have to do itagain, I'll be happy because
(17:47):
I've had things happen that willnever leave you for the rest of
your life and never wish it.
And all these people that say,Oh, I want to see it, no, you
don't.
No, you don't.
And that's a warning for me.
Um, I've seen it and I neverwant to see it again.
And uh I just pray that peopleprotect themselves and not
(18:08):
conjure that or not give thatenergy or not use that as an
intent, uh, you know, becauseit'll it'll play havoc on your
life, and again, it'll never goaway.
It'll always be there.
It goes dormant.
It goes dormant, but it couldreawaken with the wrong intent
and attitude and energy.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
And see, it's funny that you say stuff like that
because I've always been a huge,I know Melissa's heard me say
this, I've always been a hugebeliever on a lot of places you
go to, you get the energy thatyou bring in.
And I've also been a hugebeliever on like, especially
with protection and what youallow in an investigation, has
to do with intent.
(18:46):
Um that's why, like, when I domy lives or even when I do an
investigation, if somethingcomes through and says demon or
says devil, I say nope.
And I always say that.
I'm always like, nope, we're nottalking to anything with that.
If that's your intent, you needto leave.
We want to find out who needs,you know, help here, who's here
talking to us, that type ofthing.
Um and that's why even when youprotect yourself, I think if you
(19:08):
say it with intent that nothingis allowed to like follow you or
hurt you or influence it's allabout intent.
I'm a huge believer in that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:16):
I do agree with him.
I have seen more self-possessiondemonic behavior with addiction.
Oh, yeah.
Then I could never be scared ofin any kind of hobby or that
kind of stuff changes your wholelike your I've seen the face
turn black completely changelike it it's just it's like
(19:38):
well, I think it just it opensthose proverbial windows.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Like it totally alters your chemicals, it alters
your brain, all that kind ofstuff.
Like that stuff is moredangerous than I think people
realize.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
Started 40 years ago.
Um, the experiences that I'vehad, um, I do at this moment, um
we do have several investigativeteams that go in for war adjuna,
and it is a last resort if I'mcalled in or have to fly into
that particular house that wewere called into.
(20:13):
Um, it's gotta be really badbecause I don't really do home
investigations anymore.
Um, because of what I've donethousands over the years,
whether it be something quick onthe phone or a long, longer, you
know, people say that, likethousands, like holy smokes.
Sometimes it I could solvesomething with a phone call.
It's still considered a case, soit's still a case file.
(20:33):
Um, or something that I gottaspend, you know, weeks on going
back and forth.
Nothing solves on the firsttime.
You could go bless a house, itdoesn't solve on the first time.
A lot of times it's the peoplethat live there, uh, they say
they want it gone, but deep downthey don't.
And so there's that that battleuh with the living and the dead.
(20:54):
The living that don't want it togo away.
If they keep saying they want itto go away, you go bless their
house, but they still maintainthat energy that brought it
there, and it just keepshaunting over and over again.
So until they make the finaldecision deep down to want it
gone, it's just gonna keepcoming back.
Uh nothing I can do about it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
You know, it's kind of uh it's too hard to do.
Like you said, get uhsustainable evidence, like over
I mean, I've had some reallycool experiences and some really
cool stuff that I've been ableto solidify in like actual death
certificates, but even evenstill, it's just it's too hard
to prove, but that's what leavesus, you know, leaving places and
(21:34):
asking more questions andwanting to go back.
Yeah.
And uh I've actually beenquestions where they've said
that or they've had that in liketheir, you know, little rule
sheet where you cannot I stillthink they wrote it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:46):
I think they wrote it because of me.
Yeah, and I'm like uh so youknow that's some of these people
that own these places have seenme work and uh yeah, I don't
know.
unknown (21:57):
I kind of make the joke.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
Yeah, they probably wrote that, but it it's kind of
funny, but you know.
If you've investigated with me,then if you've been there, you
know, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
Yeah, that's uh I think that is pretty funny.
And I think today a lot ofthings are it's gone off the
beaten path from wanting to getevidence and you know, have more
evidence to back up claims ofhauntings and you know there
being spirits and the other sideand all that.
Now people just want views.
It's like they don't even know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:29):
Well if you get yeah, if you get footage, okay,
you get a footage of a ghost,great.
Okay, now what?
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:38):
If you can't answer now what, then what are you
doing?
unknown (22:41):
Give 'em the the ways to be able to get through it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
So again, if you can't do that, um, it's not
about dressing all in black,folding your arms for the
pictures and being tattooed uhevery inch of your body, and you
know, I know that's great.
I'm not gonna knock anybody, butuh yeah, uh let's let's do it
for the right reasons and not tolook pretty on the camera.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
So I'm like yeah, I'll knock that person that uh
that fits that description.
unknown (23:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:11):
But uh like move out of the road, locations.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
And uh yeah, no, that's justwhat and I think they get, you
know, shows like that, like evenwhen I watch shows that do an
investigation and seem likethey're doing it legit and quote
unquote scientifically and thenat the end they just show the
(23:34):
owner, like, you know, yes,here's a shadow figure, and it's
like they already like you said,they already knew their house
was haunted.
Like, what do you what's yourshadow figure?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
All right, you called us in because yeah, you
called us in because you'rescared and what's going on.
Well, yeah, there's a ghosthere.
See you later, have fun.
Yeah, you didn't do anything.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
I thought too, I'm like, I've thought that so many
times.
I'm like, well, did they likesend someone in to help them?
Like, what was the resolution?
Like they already I alwaysthought that was that was super.
SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
My problem with the damn ghost shows is that it all
starts the same, it all ends thesame.
That's why a lot of my evidenceI will never put out there.
There's I mean, I have hours andhours and hours.
I mean, like with my body camand stuff.
One day before I leave thisworld, I'm gonna make a little
mini documentary.
It's probably gonna be on likeequivalent to VHS, what it's
(24:25):
cost now, twenty years from now,for my son to be like, hey, do
what you want with it, but thisis like what happened, you know?
And when I leave this world, ifpeople can watch it, I don't
care, but it's like I that's whyI don't post a lot of shit
because everybody's alwaystrying to like it's like they're
atta they're plowing everyonedown to get to the top.
(24:46):
It's like, but what the fuck isthe top?
Because we can't when we leave,we leave.
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Our knowledge about while we're alive is Well, and
no one can no one can reallyprove anything unless you can
get No, what I mean, unless youcan get a name, unless you can
get something, like you can'teven for sure say there's ways
though of finding outinformation and communicating
(25:10):
and not just being like, hey,what's your name?
SPEAKER_03 (25:12):
What's your last name?
How did you die?
Or here's this picture of thisorb.
Well, who gives a shit?
Everybody has seen pictures.
Like it's more like it's deeperthan that.
You know what I mean?
Um it's also putting together apuzzle sometimes because
sometimes they they have todevelop so much energy to get
across and talk and like they'rehalf words, and there's a bunch
(25:33):
of random words you're like,okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:35):
No, that's why, like, so out of so I used to
work, and I I'll actually saythe name now, but I used to work
at Eloise.
I worked there for about sixyears, and one of out of six
years, I was able to take one,one experience and link it up to
an actual news article of ayoung woman um dying the way
that it came across to us thatshe died.
SPEAKER_03 (25:57):
You guys can get to the Lizzie Borden house and do
the walking, the walking uhhistory tour.
Matt, I think is his name.
I still have his cart down here.
The history of that place isfrickin' amazing.
Like it goes way, like waydeeper than just it w I was just
so fascinated.
unknown (26:17):
Well, it is, it isn't just the Lizzie Borden house.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
There's Maple Croft where she moved to after.
That's for sure.
Yeah, behind the Lizzie Bordenhouse, I don't think it exists
anymore.
I think it's a Lizzie Bordencoffee shop now.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Um where the house that used to be there was Lizzie
Borden's, I don't know if it washer aunt or some relative where
she went crazy and killed herchildren and threw them down the
water.
Well then yeah, so there's thehouse, right?
Yeah.
So there's a lot of um death andand despair and negativity just
(26:48):
in that one area of Fall River,Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_03 (26:51):
So before that, too, the fire.
That was crazy.
The kid that started the fire.
Yep.
It's just insane.
That I never would have knownbecause they they how come they
don't like show that more, likeon any of the shows or the
documentaries?
Like that's what the thehistory, like you were talking
about, Jenny, they don't showthe history.
No, well that's the thing isthat's where we make a mistake.
(27:12):
Five years.
Um people hear the lore, theyhear the falsehoods, and they
don't hear the other stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
That when you hear the other stuff, sometimes the
haunting makes a little moresense.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
A cemetery, um, over this way called Soup Cemetery,
and there's a quote unquotesupposed witch.
SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
There's three different groups.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
Oh god, yeah.
unknown (27:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
It's a fear.
Uh it it still happens today,uh, especially I on on a line.
Yeah.
Um everybody thinks they knowone side and they get everybody
to jump on the bandwagon, andhappens all the time.
There's still people whoconsider that the witch panic
still happens in like Africa andstuff, uh, just the same way it
did back in the 1600s.
(28:13):
You know, it's just not in thenews.
They they'd rather put otherstuff in the news to keep us
from that knowledge.
Again, train yourself, don'tbelieve everything you see.
Uh train uh you know, train yourbrain, you know, do some
reading, do your research, doall your history.
Uh it just makes everything a alittle more it makes you more
knowledgeable of what you'retrying to help people with.
SPEAKER_03 (28:36):
So you have to go out with him, he's a retired
officer, he's knowledgeable,he's like the perfect person to
go out with.
They don't go out to thecemeteries with we be protected.
SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
Yeah, so I don't know what the officers would say
because the thing is is Iretired, I was a Department of
Corrections, so but uh I did gothrough all that type of
training because with profilingand doing crisis management, you
have to go through BSU trainingthrough uh we went through the
FBI at uh Tampa.
Uh so that's where we went ourtraining down in Florida.
(29:08):
But uh yeah, you know, you stillget to talk to a lot of the
people.
That the street that I lived ondown in Florida where I rented
my house, there was ten houseson the street, and all ten of us
were law enforcement of somesort.
That was the street you didn'twant to go down if you wanted to
to do your uh you know bornagain thing or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Yeah.
That's funny.
You don't want to go down ourstreet.
But uh funny.
All right.
Well, thank you for talking tous.
Thank you.
Yeah.
No problem.
Yeah, we'll definitely have todo this again, whether it's
through StreamYard or some otherway.
We'll figure it out.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
unknown (29:48):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, you gotta find a platformthat's gonna work best for you.
Again, you know, I'm always hereto help.
Uh I I just you guys greatquestions.
Uh I wanna see you guys all dowell.
And uh
SPEAKER_03 (30:00):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Whatever I can do to help you out, you know, I'm here
for you.
I got the resources to help youout.
So that's why I like to use themto help out people doing the
right thing.
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (30:10):
So what we thought was the actual platform issue
was um actually the interfacewith the microphone.
So again, there's always goingto be technical difficulties,
and especially when I haven'tbeen on here in a while.
Um I guess it's part of the fun,but I think I got it figured
(30:31):
out.
My husband, of course, Paul thetech guy, um, figured it out
this morning, and everythingseems to be working good.
So I'm sorry if it's a littlegrainy in the beginning, you
guys.
Um, I just did what I could andworked with this, and I I I had
to put this on here because thisinterview was very important to
Jenny.
(30:51):
You know, she does a lot of workbehind the scenes to um get
these people to hop on here.
So I hope everything soundswell, and um I will be talking
to you guys soon.
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