Disclosure, Myth & the Trickster with Kelly Chase

On this edition of the Strangeology Podcast, recorded live at Contact in the Desert 2025, I sat down with Kelly Chase, host of the Cosmosis Podcast (formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole), for a deep dive into the world of high strangeness. We talk about Kelly’s personal UFO encounter, her journey into podcasting, and explore the deeper layers of the phenomenon. From mythology and window areas to consciousness, cryptids, and the trickster archetype at the heart of it all. This one’s all about confronting the unknown and learning to sit with the mystery.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Several ecnally nine Flying Doctor Flying Dip that are out there.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Next for Red Laura Larry uh, hairy creature with arms
and hang down. Besides it's you know, bore down on the.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Side Cartoony and he said he's called come not anything.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
You're listening to the Strangeology Podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Floren,
and this is your place to explore the weird, strange
and unexplained, from cryptids and creatures, the paranormal, aliens and UFOs,
forbidden knowledge, ancient mysteries, conspiracies and more. All right, folks,

(01:00):
welcome back to the Strangeology Podcast, and as always, thank
you for tuning in and also for bearing with me
this year, really in general, I was hoping to get
this one out last week, but preparations for Squanka Palooza
was the top priority and I didn't have time to
finish editing this one. I've been burning the midnight oil

(01:21):
to keep this ship running, as it's been tough to
keep a consistent schedule with production and all that this
year with home renovations and everything else I have going on.
But I appreciate your patience. As always, I'm really doing
my best to keep the content rolling out there for you.
That said, I want to give a huge shout out

(01:43):
to everyone who came out to Squanka Palooza this past
weekend in Johnstown, PA. This year's event was a great time,
and it was held in i'd say a cooler spot
than the park that it was in last year. This
year it was held at the Bottleworks Cultural Center, which

(02:03):
was I had this kind of green out in front
of it, and there was also an indoor spot for
vendors and this rooftop pavilion for speakers and musicians. It
was definitely a pretty interesting spot. I was so busy
for most of the day though, that I didn't even
have a chance to check all of that out. But

(02:24):
I had a blast vending as usual and meeting so
many of you in person who listened to the show
and support me on social media, and just seeing the
cryptid community show up strong as usual. And big thanks
to everyone who supported me by grabbing merch or just
stopping by my tent to say hello. It really means
the world to me that you do that. It's also

(02:46):
awesome getting to reconnect with friends in the community, especially
since this year has been pretty light on shows for
strangeology with everything going on, but I got to set
up next to friend and support of the show, Easton Hawk,
of of course, and huge thanks again Man for all
your help and to Dilan too. I also get to
see moth Boy Matt and Mothgirl Kate, which they had

(03:09):
a food truck for the event and they were killing it.
They're also got to see Eerie Eric as well as
Lisa from Crypti Comforts and Joe from Crypto Teology and
they're the ones who organize Squanka Palooza, and also Danner
from Contradust Designs. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other folks too,
but yeah, it's always so great to see everyone. These

(03:30):
events always feel kind of like a mini family reunion
in a way, and they're one of the things that
I love doing most about these events. Now, the other event,
the only other event that I have left for this
year for twenty twenty five, and it's the best event
of the year in the Northeast, so mark your calendars,

(03:50):
which is the Whitehall Sasquatch Calling Contest and Festival in Whitehall,
New York, which happens on Saturday, September twenty eighth. This
is going to be my fourth year at the event,
and it's always so much fun. There's great vendors, killer speakers,
food trucks, and of course the infamous Bigfoot calling contest

(04:11):
at the end of the day in the little amphitheater
that they have over the river there. I even doubled
my vendor space this year, which is going to be interesting,
so I can have more space to work with, bring
more merch and all that. So if you're up in
the upstate New York or New England region, you should

(04:32):
definitely come hang out. It happens in Skeensboro Park. It
goes from ten am to six pm. It's really a
great time, so hopefully we'll see you out there. Now,
let's talk about today's episode. This is the second interview
from my Contact in the Desert twenty twenty five series,
and I'm really stoked today to share my conversation with

(04:52):
fellow podcast host Kelly Chase of the Cosmosis podcast. Kelly
and I got into a little bit of everything. We
talked about her journey into podcasting, UFO sightings, cryptids, the
current state of UFO disclosure and the bigger picture and
implications of all of it, as well as window areas

(05:14):
Skinwalker Ranch.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
It was a great chat.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
We kind of touched on all sorts of stuff, so
I think you're really gonna dig it now. Quick disclaimer
before we jump in. If you didn't listen to the
last episode, the audio quality on this series, they're not
going to be quite up to the usual standard. The
media room that this episode was recorded in had high ceilings,
no sound treatment, and a fair amount of background noise

(05:39):
from the hallway that was outside of the room. So
I've done my best to clean it up and post
and it's absolutely listenable. Just a heads up that it
might sound a little bit different than usual, but it's
all good. And also, if you're missing regular content from me,
don't forget to follow Strangeology on all the socials, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube.

(06:02):
I'm still posting a couple short form videos every week,
so that's usually the best way to keep up in
between podcast episodes. And of course there's always all the
links are in the show notes. And finally, if you
have been enjoying the show, please take a second to
leave a five star review for me. It's free quick
and helps more weirdos like us find Strangeology and get

(06:25):
this thing to the next level. All right, let's get
into it. Here's my conversation with Kelly Chase, recorded live
at Contact in the Desert.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
All right, Welcome back everyone to the show today. My
guest for this episode, this edition of Strangeology is Kelly
Chase of the Cosmosis podcast, Jesus researcher, a writer and
recently the show used to be called UFO rabbit Hole,
and now it's been renamed and still kind of doing

(07:09):
the same thing, but working on deep dives into mysteries
of UFOs, consciousness, the hidden nature of reality and looking
into the history, the science, the mythology, and all of that.
So this her show has become a go to for
many people who are seeking not just answers, but better
questions as well. So we're going to explore her exploration

(07:35):
and evolution of her journey and finding the answers and
the deeper meaning behind all the high strangeness that surrounds
our world on a daily basis. So, what's your origin story, Like,
how did you get into all this all this stuff?
What propelled you into the world of UFOs? Kelly?

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I ask myself that a lot on weekends, like these.
First of all, thanks for having me on the show, Jeff,
It's really great to be here.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
So, about four years ago, almost exactly, I was we
were kind of coming out of the pandemic and my
family was getting ready to go on a big vacation
together to the Outer Banks in North Carolina, which had
been a place where when I was a kid, I
saw a UFO and I had I hadn't really, I'd
never forgotten it, but I didn't really know what to

(08:24):
do with that information, and no one believed me when
I told them, and so it was something that I
just always sort of kept in the back of my
mind and didn't really know what to do with. And
right around that same time, it was right before the
first UAP report came out, and so suddenly like there
was stuff on sixty Minutes and there was stuff in
the news, and I hadn't really paid attention in twenty

(08:44):
seventeen when things were happening. When in twenty twenty one,
for some reason, that broke through the noise to me
and I just happened to be going to some place
where I had seen a UFO as a kid.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
I'm terrible at taking time off. I'm a hardcore.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Workaholic and it's not cute, but I'm really bad at
taking time. And so I thought, what am I going
to do for this week while we're at the beach,
And I said, you know what, I'm going to get
to the bottom of the UFO thing.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
And I obviously did not get to the bottom.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Of it, but during that week, it really what I
saw was that there was enough evidence there that something
really really strange was going on and that I did
not understand it, and it just opened up this whole
world for me, and I haven't I've sort of got
obsessed and I haven't been able to walk away.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, can I ask, you know, what exactly did this
UFO look like? Was it doing any kind of strange maneuvers?
Which is just sitting there?

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Like what what happened?

Speaker 4 (09:35):
So I was sitting outside one night on the deck
we were on it. We had like this beach front house.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
I was maybe thirteen years old, and I really liked
sitting out on the deck at nights because I could
see the stars because I grew up a suburban girl
and you're used to kind of, you know, seeing like
three stars, and I would get very excited for how
many stars you could see out there. So it was
out one night looking at the stars, and I had
this thought that I had never had before, and if
honestly never had since. It was a very loud thought

(10:00):
that was like, if you look up right now, you'll
see a UFO. And I looked up and there was
this kind of clear, bright white light coming across the sky,
and it seemed a little fast for a plane, but
it wouldn't have been something that I clocked, except that, like,
almost as soon as I looked at it, it did
two hard right angle turns and then just went like

(10:23):
off across the horizon, just faster than anything I'd ever
seen move.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
And I was like, what was that?

Speaker 2 (10:28):
And I ran inside and I told my family, and
no one believed me, and so it just became this
thing that kind of lived in the back of my mind,
and I thought about it sometimes, but I just didn't
really know what I saw.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's certainly a lot of a
lot of stories like that. My listeners know, of course
that when I was about what year was it, I
was like thirteen, It was like nineteen ninety seven. I
saw a massive triangle hovering silently over trees and drove
right under it with my brother. And I've known people

(11:01):
who have seen something similar, like they thought it was
a satellite in the sky, and then all of a
sudden it makes a turn on a dime and just
goes in an entirely different direction at like you know,
speed of light, probably not that fast, but obviously but
you know, faster than conventional aircraft would go. And it's
just like when people see that kind of stuff, it
it really kind of changes your your understanding. It breaks

(11:24):
your reality because we're so we're so like grounded in
materialism and like that here and now and what's going
on with human civilization that when that stuff happens, it's like,
you know, oh, this isn't all there is.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Now you.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
What was your background before doing this? You were in
kind of like a like a branding type of thing.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Or yeah, I was a brand director for an e
comm company, So I mean I had sort of been
pursuing that for for years, and I was very like
my career was extraordinarily important to me. It was I said,
I'm a workaholic. It was probably an outsized part of
my identity. So the fact that this kind of happened
to me, and I lost all interest in this thing

(12:12):
that I've been pursuing for like fifteen years, and was
like walked away from my career shortly thereafter and have
been doing this since.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, did you still find that there's, like, you know,
your knowledge and skill set that kind of influence at all,
like what you're doing now with Cosmosis.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
I think it really does.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I mean, part of it is just, you know, obviously,
if you want to get your stuff out there, having
some understanding of marketing I think definitely helps. But even
more than that, you know, the thing about marketing is
I've always said that it's kind of like psychology for sociopaths,
And there was a part of me as I got

(12:52):
further into my career that became increasingly aware of that
and sort of like uncomfortable with that aspect of it.
And so it just kind of drove me to work
for companies that were kind of really prioritized ethics and
doing marketing in a certain way.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
But there was still something about it.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
That always was a little I was getting to a
point where it was becoming more and more uncomfortable for me,
But I do I'm really grateful for that background because
I think in terms of the things that we'd come
up against in the UFO community, in terms of like
narrative control and that sort of thing, that it's a
lot that skill set I think helps me see and
identify and parse some pieces of that not that I have, like,

(13:35):
you know, some sort of you know, insider knowledge or
that I think I'm right all the time, but it
does help me give some context to the ways in
which these narratives move and are sometimes manipulated.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Well, I mean it's great to come into these things with,
you know, some additional skill sets because there is a
lot of riff raff, a lot of disinformation to sift
through with this stuff, of course, so you have to
be very careful about what you're looking into.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Now.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
I understand that you had some paranormal experiences growing up
as well. Can you Can you talk about that at all?

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
I Mean something that's been so crazy about this experience
and getting into all of this is it didn't is
that I had spent most of my adult life being
an atheist, kind of a strict materialist.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
I didn't believe in any of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I was very anti WU and like focal the kind
of person who's vocal about that, right, how fun of me?

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Great at parties.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
But but yeah, you know, getting into this it didn't
just help me kind of reclaim that UFO experience.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
But going back through my history, there was a house.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
I come from a family that's very you know, of
that mindset atheist, you know, strict materialist. But even like
my brother and my mom and like my dad when
he was alive, were all like, yeah, that one house
we lived in was haunted, like for real, for real,
like there are things that happened there that we that
we couldn't understand. I've throughout my life had some sort
of like precognitive events. It's not something I have any

(15:08):
kind of control over, but there have been points in
my life where actually, like New Year's Eve twenty twenty,
I was standing with my brother in the window looking
out at some fireworks that were going off by my house,
and I just had this flash and I turned to
him and I said, like, like, our mom is sick
and it's inner chest, and like it might like like

(15:31):
it's it could this could be it? And she told
us like three days later that she had breast cancer
and I had no So there've been like little things
like that that have kind of happened to me throughout
my life that I didn't think much of at the time,
but that I was kind of able to go back
and reclaim some of those things and be like, you
know what, maybe that maybe I can trust myself, Like
maybe I can believe my experience even if I don't

(15:53):
necessarily know what it means.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Right, Yeah, that's uh yeah, I mean some so we
get to listen to ourselves too, right, Yeah. Yeah, I'm
sorry to hear about that.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
With your mom, and I think she made it just good.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Just better know in remission, I should say has a
happy ending.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
That is happy, happy, happy news for sure. Well, so,
you know, before we started recording, I asked about, you know,
how the show is doing and all that. So the show,
you said, your show used to be called the UFO
rabbit Hole and now it's called Cosmosis. What led to
the decision to kind of switch things up?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, I mean the UFO rabbit Hole. I love I
love the UFO rabbit Hole so much. It has such
a huge piece.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
Of my heart.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
And what the UFO rabbit Hole really was was me
documenting my own journey down the rabbit hole. Being like, oh, crap,
UFOs I think are real, but I don't know what
that means. It's far more complicated than I thought. And
so it was kind of me documenting my own journey
of questioning and research and all of that, and that
was really special. But I also think that at a

(17:04):
certain point I kind of like outgrew it structurally and conceptually.
I had joked for a while that it was a
UFO podcast where I never talked about UFOs, who was
always kind of these I was kind of getting pulled
in all of these different directions in terms of anomalist
experience and consciousness and the occult, and like all of
these other threads that are inevitably kind of tied.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Up in this.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
And I spent twenty twenty four working on.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
A docuseries called Cosmosis UFOs in a New Reality, which
people can find at Cosmosis Dup Media. It's on Amazon
Prime and HAVEBLETV. Sorry shameless plug. And I did that
with my best friend James j Christopher King I sphere.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
I know his name. He's my best friend.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Who is the co founder and director of the Experiencer
Group and also a really talented filmmaker, and so we
worked on that in twenty twenty four together, and I
think that just the process of making that show and
being out in the feet and doing more and more
research really just kind of brought home to me that
I was kind of out of the research phase of
all of this, and that I was ready to dive deeper,

(18:07):
do more fieldwork, do more inquiry, and the UFO rabbit
Hole just wasn't quite the right container for that anymore.
And so we decided to do cosmosis. And because I
work with Ja so much, and I mean I talked
to Jay multiple times a day and we're constantly working together,
it kind of didn't make sense for me to totally
be solo anymore because that's not really how I was working.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
So so yeah, gotcha, gotcha. So you know, what are
the goals moving forward? Are you going to do more
documentary work, get into the field and instead of just
sitting behind the microphone?

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, so I think we're definitely moving more towards a
video format, which in some ways is like not where
I'm most comfortable. I really I'm I'm really a writer
in my soul, and so I think that it was
really natural for me to kind of like script my
episodes and be behind a microphone and never really in
front of a camera, and you know, seeking out that

(19:00):
kind of attention. It seems counterproductive, like counterintuitive, because it's
everything that it's not my that's not where I'm most
comfortable all the time. But you know, as the world evolves,
I think that we're seeing that, like video is more
and more important, and so you know, doing a lot more.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Field work over the next year.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
There's a couple different stories that Jay and I are
pursuing and the cameras are coming along.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
So can you talk about any of the cases that
you're looking into for this or is it still kind
of hush hush?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
It's it is actually a little bit hush hush, and
there's some but there's some really really exciting stuff that's
coming up. I can say that it's a lot of
it's based in sort of like Appalachia, and I'm from
northeast Ohio and like I which is not quite Appalachia obviously,
but I have a lot of family but lives in Appalachia.
I've always been really intrigued by kind of like the
lore and the history and all the cryptids and all

(19:49):
of that in that area. So I think it's a
really rich place to kind of do some field research.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Oh absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
I mean I've had so many people on the show
before talking about that region of the country, and there's
a lot of high strangeness going on there for sure,
So that'll be really exciting. I can't wait to see
what you come up with for that. Now, as far
as like the research and all that is there, do

(20:19):
you feel like there's any kind of tension between like
staying grounded or embracing more of like the.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Metaphysical, like the wu aspect of like what's going on now?
How do you feel about that?

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Oh gosh, that's just like the constant battle, isn't it,
Because you can get kind of swept up in it.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
And I mean, I don't have to tell you your
show is literally called strangeology.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
The strange starts taking over your life and it starts
infiltrating every part of it. And I think it's really
easy to kind of go from this place where like
I felt like I went from this place where I
believed in nothing, and it didn't happen overnight.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
There was like a progression, but within like a couple years.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
So I was like I don't even have sure Bigfoot
absolutely for reptilians, Sure mantids get in here, like I'm like,
I'm here for I'm here to at least consider everything.
But staying grounded is still really important, like touching grass,
you know, having people in your life, or like this
isn't the only thing that you talk about, because it
can be really all consuming. My friend Joshua Cutchen, phenomenal

(21:25):
author of you know josh He's, Oh you should He's
he's so brilliant, and he just he wrote a cology
of Souls and then he just had a book come
out called Fourth Wall Phantoms. And I was interviewing him
for Whitley Strieber's show Dreamland that I guessed host on
once a month, and he he was just coming out

(21:46):
of the process of writing Fourth Wall Phantoms, and he
was literally saying, like I need to ground like I
have things have gotten too like I went too deep
with this one and it's time.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
To come back. And I think like that just becomes
something you.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Get used to in this field, is like like knowing
when to reel yourself back in and just like get
back to normal consensus reality for a minute, right.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Right, So, like you you've touched on, like the idea
that some mysteries are meant to remain unsolved throughout your stuff.
How do you determine when to keep pursuing, keep digging

(22:27):
into more information, or when when you call it good,
when you're like.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Not, let's not go any further and just sit with it.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
That's such a great question.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
I mean, I think, I think something that's so important
in this work is number one, just intellectual humility, the
ability to like understand what you know and what you
don't know. Like I was just doing a talk and
someone asked me a really brilliant question about AI, and
I was like, what a fantastic question.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
I don't really know anything about AI, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 2 (22:59):
And so I think, you know, knowing what you know,
knowing what you don't know, but also recognizing kind of
like the limits of our own knowledge.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
Like some of those limits are.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Individual, but some of those individuals, some of those limitations.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
Are you know, structural.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
They're a part of our reality or they're a part
of our you know, our scientific paradigms have only advanced
so far, and so I think just knowing where those
lines are and being aware of them, but at the
same time, I don't What I will say though, is
I don't think that that should stop our inquiry. I
think that there is a true value to striving towards answers,

(23:40):
even if you're like relatively convinced that you're going to
die without getting them, because I think that that act
of inquiry and of striving ends up being so rich
and full and fulfilling in ways that are hard to
quantify unnecessarily, but that you know, those of us who
engage in them all the time, that you see what

(24:02):
it does in your life.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Right right, Yeah, Oh that's fair enough for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
So, as far as the UFO phenomenon, all the high strangeness,
have you looked into like going back through mythology and history,
you know, do you have any thoughts on that? Because
you know, I've found that the more that I look
into this phenomenon, it goes back so far into our

(24:35):
legends and folklore.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
You know, what do you think of all that?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
You know? I love I love all of that, and
there's a part of me that like just wants to
forget about UFOs forever and just go back and like
look at all the ancient mysteries stuff like it's it
really calls to me and it's so much fun. I
think that what's really important about those things is this
recognition that like we have this idea that scientific progress
or understanding about things moved in this like straight line,

(25:01):
and that it's we're always progressing and just getting like
smarter and smarter and more and like we're more able
to understand our reality. And I don't think that that's
necessarily the case. Like we've clearly made some huge advances
over the last few hundred years with what we're able
to do, but in some ways we've like amputated these
large pieces of human experience and just sort of like

(25:23):
relegated them to the trash bin because we don't want
to deal with it and it doesn't fit within our
current paradigm. And I think when you go back and
you look at what human understanding has been of the
anomalis of non human intelligence of all of these things
over like millennia, that suddenly myths and that sort of
thing end up. There's a there's a lot of valuable

(25:46):
information I think stored in those and I think that
we need to rethink what mythology even is.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's so interesting, you know, all
the ancient stories, the ancient knowledge, especially with Native American
First Nations people. Like the last night, me and my
colleagues got sucked into a conversation at the meet and

(26:15):
greet upstairs and we were talking with this guy and
he was talking about his I'm not sure if I
can really say, but you know, working for government contracting stuff,
and and you know, he he was a member of

(26:35):
a Native American tribe and they have all these stories
going back and petroglyphs and rock art and you know,
it's it's really interesting to think about all of that.
And you know, recently I was I was looking into
information out of Passport to Magonia with Jacques Vallet and
the control system and this cosmic trickster element that seems

(27:01):
to be present with humanity since the dawn of time,
and it's just like, is that what's going on? I
don't know, but it's really super interesting. Have you ever
kind of looked into the Jacques Vallet and all that?

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, I know, a huge huge fan of
Vala and I think I think Vala and Keel probably
have been maybe the most influential on me. And they
Dovetail together really nicely, right, because Jacques Ballet in some
ways like candles, you know, it talks about how these
things relate to like mythology and like fairy lore and
all of that. And then Keel was like, like, I

(27:43):
literally just got in my car and drove over here
and this happening in Appalachia right now or you know,
in the seventies, and he was doing this, and so
they're great together.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the whole the Mothman prophecies, yes, and
all that and all the highest strangeness, the men in black,
the orbs, and the sky injured cold.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yes, I love all that stuff and the same yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah. You know, you you've had your your personal experiences.
Obviously they've they've influenced where you've come to today. And
I mean, where do we go next? You know, what
do you think the next like five ten years is
going to look like, Oh, what's going on? Because we

(28:23):
have so much, so much going on with the government,
which is surprising. I never thought I'd see in my lifetime,
right that things would be being talked about in a
serious manner. Of course, we have David Rush and Jacob
Barber coming forward different more more whistleblowers I'm sure will
come out with more information, of course, but yeah, like

(28:47):
where do you see us going?

Speaker 4 (28:48):
Gosh, yeah, the million dollar question.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
I think it's going to be really interesting because it
does seem like there's a double edged.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
Sword with where we're at with disclosure, because there was like.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Complete denial and now it seems like in it felt
like it was going very slowly at the time, but
now it seems like it's actually happened very quickly over
these last few years that we've We've gone from this
place where it was like complete denial and now it's
almost like it's like flooding the zone with all of
this like potential lore and history and acknowledgment and.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Like all of these things, and I think it makes it.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Somehow, it doesn't make it easier for us to understand
what's going on, Like we have more information, but the
quality of that information is sometimes in question, and it's
and we as kind of like everyday people who don't
have clearances don't really have a real ability to gauge
one hundred percent like what's going on here, And so
I don't know, like I think that disclosure is going

(29:46):
to continue to advance but my prediction is that we
will be surprised at how much that doesn't actually help
when it comes to understanding the larger scope of what's
going on. And you know, you pair that with the
fact that we're looking at the rise of AI and
quantum computing and all of these other things where you know,
there's scientists who are now considering the idea that plasma

(30:09):
could be intelligent, and plasma's like ninety nine percent of
the visible universe, Like, what the heck does that mean?
And so there's so much going on. I think that's
going to continue to challenge us to even think about,
like what is a non human intelligence? And suddenly non
human intelligence is something that's encroaching into all of our lives,

(30:30):
not just experiencers.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
And so it's going to be it's gonna be a
wild ride.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
I think it's gonna be weird. It's gonna be weird
for sure. Are you familiar with doctor Robert Temple's work
and these kinds of heaven? Yeah, I had him on
the show like two years ago now at this point
three years ago.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
It was a wild ago.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
I've been doing this for a long time, and you know,
he looked into I mean, it's basically all about intelligent
plasma and a big part of that book that he
wrote was like the Kordaluski clouds, which are in the
lagrange points around Earth, and the idea that it's this

(31:11):
non human intelligence that like comes down influences us, maybe
like our essence, our soul, whatever you want to call it,
could like recycle out there and back for like reincarnation
cycles and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
It's just like, WHOA, what's going on.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
I'm obsessed. I love it so much.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Robert Temple's really I think I'm going to get a
chance to meet him in the UK in July and
I'm really looking forward to that. But his book is brilliant.
I think you're just in terms of like thinking things
through on.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
A speculative level.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
You know, who knows if it all turns out to
be true, But I think it's so valuable to think
through those things and tying it back. If we were
talking about with mythology, you know, if there's these two giant,
like very ancient plasma clouds right that are circling the Earth,
and that and that plasma might have more to do
with life and consciousness than we ever imagined, like what

(32:06):
about all of those ancient myths, like going back to
the you know in a Noaki where you've got like,
you know, like that like two brothers and like you've
got you know, these deities, these kind of like dual deities.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
Right, Like is that? What's is that? Where that comes from?

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (32:24):
And I mean also thinking back to petroglyphs and I
can't remember the name of it, but there's a these
petroglyphs that look like kind of like a plasma burst
in the sky. It's almost like an anthropomorphic shape, but
it has like these like tendrils coming off of it.

(32:45):
Like what were these ancient people see? And it's, uh,
it's really wild to think about.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yes, yeah, plasma is the future.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I think.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
I think we're going to learn a lot from that.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Absolutely. I wasn't expecting this to get into plasma, but that's.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
I'm always ready to get into plasma. That this is plasmology.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Now that plasmology, I love it might as little rebrand
we're five years in. Do you have like a favorite
case that you've looked into so far?

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Oh gosh, what a great question. You know, a case
that's really near and dear to my heart. Is is
actually one that we I sound so like self grandizing
because we put it in our show, but it was
a there's a show in our show Cosmosis, there's an

(33:35):
experience er named Courtney la Fall and it was his
first time coming forward and he came to me. He
was actually one of my very first listeners to the podcast.
He was like one of the first people that ever
reached out to me, and I just had this feeling
about him that there was something there, that there was
something in his story that I wanted to hear, and
it took him a long time to tell it to me.

(33:56):
But through this series of synchronicities that kind of kept
bringing us back together and connecting what was going on
with him to the work that I was doing, we
ended up talking more and more.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
We ended up having him in the show. And what's
so incredible.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Portney is definitely what you would call like a super
experience or you know, like Whitley Strieber Chris Bledsoe, like
his experiences are in the depth and the breadth and
the amount to which they kind of integrate into his
life is really on that level, like he's he's it's
it's something and in his whole family. I think that's

(34:29):
something I loved about it is it's like it's an
intergenerational story. He's also African American, which is something that
you know, I think in when we're dealing with the unknown,
that we end up dealing with it with people who
are kind of the most culturally adjacent to us, because
we already struggle so much with the language and and
the concepts that it's hard to talk about it with

(34:51):
somebody who's just dealing with a different like worldview or framework.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
And but I think it's a.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Weakness sometimes of the field that we that we don't
branch out more. And Courtney's story, you know, part of
his like's history involves you know, communications from dead ancestors
and you know UFO sightings and poltergeist and like all
of the gamut of these things. But like the story
that he told for our show in particular, was about

(35:21):
how this kind of series of dreams that his very
young son, like toddler age son, was having ended up
leading them to buying finding because they'd been looking for it,
finding and buying this ranch that had been the plantation
on which his family had been enslaved, and that his
grandmother had picked cotton during Jim Crow and that they

(35:42):
ended up through like these dreams from his son.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
Finding this land again and buying it.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Now he owns it and his grandmother owns this property
where their family had been enslaved. And I loved that
story so much because it wasn't your typical It was
a UFO show, but we were like, this isn't just
a typical UFO store, or wanted to show how these
things are interrelated and how there's all these different kinds
of anomalists experience modalities that can happen to somebody that

(36:08):
like overlap, and also how Courtney interpreted them. He's not
just you know, a black man in America, but he's
also like very a very deeply Christian man. His faith
is a big part of his life. In hearing how
he interprets all of this not through this kind of
like euphological framework, but through more of his faith background,

(36:28):
and I just think that, like, it's such a rich story,
and I think it also just brings a different framing
to help us understand that, like what we're talking about
in euthology and the way we frame it is like
kind of this narrow band of interpretation of the anomalist,
but that it's much wider than that. And I think
the more we can get to the human and that

(36:49):
we can hear from like all kinds of different people,
that it gives us a better perspective on what we're
dealing with.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, that's super interesting that you know, you got to
talk to someone who has had all these experiences, like
you know, the Whitley Streamers and the Cris Blencos of
the world. That's great. Thanks for sharing that. Also wondering
aside from you know, UFO cases, you mentioned Appalaysia cryptis

(37:14):
before do you look into cryptids?

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Love?

Speaker 3 (37:18):
What's your favorite cryptois?

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Oh my gosh, okay, I actually do have a favorite
cryptid and it's a weird one. Thank you for asking.
No one ever asked me.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
We talk about everything on this show.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Always just waiting for someone to ask me my favorite crypti. Yeah,
so there is one and it appears like it mostly.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Comes from kind like the mid eighteen hundreds and a
lot in like kind of Appalachia and in the South.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
And it's called a hoopsnake. Oh, okay, have you seen
this one?

Speaker 1 (37:44):
It's seen pictures, but I've never I haven't taken the
time to look into more of the lore behind it.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Yeah, it's like it's a very weird one.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
It's it looks kind of like an oral boris because
like it's eating it's it's like has its own tail
in its mouth. But people would claim to just be
like walking down the country road and here comes this
hoop snake. You know, like how you can turn a
hula hoop on its side and like roll it. But
it was like that they would be this like snake
like that, like rolling like a hula hoop, and that
would be it. They just see it go by and

(38:13):
then like nothing ever happens up. And I love the
hoop snake because it's so like absurd and weird, but
that so many people reported seeing that is very strange.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, it's kind of funny.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
You know. A lot of cryptids are like okay, that's
you know, probably like a tall tail someone was embellishing
something like the slide rock Bultu of Colorado was like
the lumberjack tall tail of like a landslide coming down
the rocky mountains and not this giant like creature coming
down and devouring everything in its path. But yeah, that

(38:48):
one sounds like you know it, maybe there's there's a
possibility that it could have been real. I mean, obviously
snakes can grab onto their tails, but I'm not sure
if they can make their their whole body rigid and
like rual right.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
It makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
I think that's why I like it so much. It's
just and it's such an absurd mental picture that I
just it sticks with me.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
I like that one.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, that's funny. Oh man.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
What are your thoughts on like window areas, you know,
speaking of Appalachia or places like the Alaska Triangle, Bermuda Triangle.
Even where I'm from in New England we have the
Bridgewater Triangle, the Bennington Triangle.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
You know, have you ever been to any of these places?
Are looked into them?

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah? No, I'm really I'm really really fascinated by window areas,
you know, obviously kil fan. Yeah, I would say, actually,
where Courtney's Ranch is. We went down there, and that
to me seems like a window area. There's not just
a ton of stuff that happens just on that ranch,
but in the area there's a lot of like Sasquatch
stuff going on, and a lot of you know, there's

(39:52):
a lot of really interesting stuff in East Texas, and
I think that that might be a hot spot. But yeah,
I find window areas to be really and I think
it's something that like we're overlooking and that it's kind
of our westernized view of things, like to us, like
a hill as a hill and a river is just
a river, and we don't think of it, but you

(40:12):
know when we look at you know, I'm from Ohio
and you look at like the mound building cultures and
you know, like the Serpent Mound and things like that
that are in Ohio, and there does seem to be there.
And then also like all around the world with pyramids
and megalithic structures and that sort of thing, this there
seems to it seems like people of the past, in

(40:34):
certain cultures had this sort of awareness of the importance
of certain places and the interplay of the sacred and
the divine and the numinous and like particular landscapes in
ways that we're just like missing. And so is it
something about electromagnetic fields or is you know, is it
like the veils a little thinner there, or like what
is it about those places that And I don't know

(40:55):
the answer, but I'm fascinated.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone really knows
the answer. There's of course all those different theories. Is
the veil thin what does that mean exactly? Is it
quartz crystal deposits creating a Paso electric effect or some
kind of wormhole somewhere We just don't know. But yeah,

(41:19):
you know, window areas are super, super fascinating. Some of
the first episodes I did of the show, I was
looking into like strange New England stuff and I covered
like Bridgewater Triangle of Bennington Triangle. You know, there's legends
of a man eating rock or like missing for one
one style stuff going on, and yeah, it's a weird

(41:42):
world that we live in.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
It is, Oh my gosh, there's speaking of weird cryptis.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
There's another one and it has like a window area
tie in with I'm really fascinated by the things that
go on around Skinwalker Ranch because it's not just the ranch,
it's like that whole area is super weird.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
And one that I find really fascinating is.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
That there's a rock quarry that's not far from Skinwalker
Ranch that they that they filled up with water like
sometime back in like the sixties or seventies.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
I forget one exactly.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
But it was not not like super ancient pass like
this is, you know, just a few yeah, fairly recent
history and.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
They filled this thing in with water and people swim
in it.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
But if you ask like like locals and especially kind
of like First Nations people and like what they'll tell
you that like people that there's a essentially kind of
like a Lockness style serpent, a giant one that lives
in this thing that like eats people sometimes. And it's
like it's crazy enough with Lockness where you have this ancient,

(42:42):
ancient lake and then you see this thing that looks
like a prehistoric beast of some kind, and you can
kind of tell yourself a story of how that might happen.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
But how does a rock quarry that got filled in.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Just a few decades before get sort of like weirdly
haunted by a giant prehistoric looking crypted Like, how does
that happen?

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean Window Area for sure.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I Mean I've talked with Travis Taylor before and you know,
the impression that I got from him, you know, being
involved with the ranch, was that he was leaning towards
a lot of more interdimensional type of thing like what's
in the mesa. Was it a meteor impact that hit

(43:24):
there that caused some kind of rip in the fabric
of space and time? And yeah, I mean that that
whole area that you into basin is like called Ufo Alley. Right,
there's so many I have the book the Utah Ufo Display,
and all these different cases of people seeing stuff in
the sky or experiencing other high strangeness. You know, it's

(43:47):
you know, it's fascinating for sure. I was not familiar
with the rock Cory being filled in though, with like
you know, having some kind of I guess you could
call it like a lake monster.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yeah, of sorts.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
It reminds me a little bit of are you familiar
with like the story of the Oklahoma Octopus. Okay, so
there's a lot of man made lakes in Oklahoma because
obviously it's like the dead center of.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
The United States.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
There's not landlocked, but there's like man made lakes like
Lake Thunderbird and like ten Killer, And there's this legend
of this you know, cephalopod type of creature that comes
up and like pulls people down and drowns them. And
you know, you know, there's probably some some embellishment maybe
some people were being irresponsible with their their their activities

(44:40):
and may have you know, messed up. But uh, you know,
it's it's interesting to think about, you know, well, human
activity happening in an area of high strangeness.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Maybe something came through, Yeah, a portal of vortex.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
I don't know, can I I love the stories that
like really really don't make sense. Those are my favorite
because they give you a lot to play with.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, and the high strangeness is not limited to North
America too. I mean there's weird stuff happening all over
the world. It's interesting, you know. I see in like
comments on videos that I post on social media, especially
with UFO stuff, it's people commenting, why is it so
only in America?

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Why only in the United States? But it's not.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
You know, you look into stories in folklore from Southeast Asia,
the Philippines, Africa, I mean even Europe of course, as
all sorts of folklore's it's not just limited to here.
It's a global phenomenon, it seems like. So yeah, South

(45:48):
America too, especially hotspot for Central South America with UFO cases, Virginia,
the Cholaris incident and all that.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
Right, there's aunch of crazy stuff in Colombia and that
sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
I've been so busy just getting ready for contact and
doing pre interviews and stuff that the whole Bouga sphere story,
like I've been trying to follow it and I'm just like, Okay,
what's going on with this and like trying to get
my information off of people is that Have you been
looking into that story at all?

Speaker 4 (46:19):
No, I'm in the same boat.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
I feel like I sit so crazy because I feel
like my UFO job is really getting in the way
of keeping up with my UFO interests. There's so much
I feel like I can verily keep up, and we're
so used to that kind of like slow drip on
the disclosure side that all of a sudden it's this
fire hose and I'm like, what am I even supposed
to do with all this?

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yeah? Yeah, I keep seeing people.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
I think there's like some kind of thing where they're
like you can come down to Mexico and come check
it out and like take video, oh wow, and investigate
this thing, because I mean, they have like scientists working
on on this object. And of course there's people that
are like it looks like it's man made. There's some
really like vicious stuff about it. But then again, like

(47:02):
there's weird stuff that they're finding, like on I'm not
sure if it's they're doing X ray or like a
cat scan of it where there's like an object inside
and like a whole bunch of like different like micro objects,
and like you pour water on it and it boils off,
but then you touch it immediately after and it's cold
to the touch.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
It's just like that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
It's weird. There's some weird stuff going on with it.
But yeah, I mean, we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
It wouldn't be the first time something was was hoaxed,
of course, but yeah, I'm definitely curious about that. And uh,
you know, Haimimosan's involved with like checking it out, and
of course, you know, a lot of people have things
to say about him, but you know, he's uh certainly
brought a lot of things, interesting things to light in

(47:50):
that part of the world that you know, we otherwise
probably wouldn't really get to know about it.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Yeah, very true.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah, Well, hey, this has been a really fun conversation, Kelly.
Thank you so much for coming on the show, getting
to meet you in person.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
This this has been good.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Before we wrap things up, Can you let my listeners
know where to find all of your stuff online?

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
So you can find if you're looking for the show
and also links to the podcast. You can go to
Cosmosis dot media and you'll find everything there. And then
I also do a monthly guest hosting spot on Whitley
Straber's Dreamland, so you can find me there once a month,
usually like the last episode of the month, as long
as I haven't screwed the schedule up for Whitley.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
So, do you have any upcoming other events that you're
doing after contact or.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
I do believe so we just Jay and I just
got asked to speak at the.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
IRVA Conference, the International Remote Viewing conference that'll be held
in New Mexico in October.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
So if people want to google that, that's going to
be really cool conference. Really looking forward to that.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I'm not a remote viewer and neither is Jay, so
we were really honored to be asked. They just we
talked about remote viewing and related topics and Cosmosis and
they appreciated what we had to say and invited us
to come out and I was like, I am so there.
So I'm very excited and that'll be in October.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Awesome. Great, well, Hey, thanks again so much for coming
on and love to have you back on again in
the future.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
Oh anytime. Thank you so much for having me Jess.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
This is great.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Thank you all right.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Thanks again to Kelly Chase for coming onto the show,
and to the folks at Contact in the Desert for
making this interview possible. At a really great time chatting
with Kelly, diving into her work with the Cosmosis podcast,
her thoughts on UFO sightings, cryptids, and the ever evolving
landscape of disclosure. These are the kind of conversations that

(49:54):
really keep me inspired to keep pushing Strangeology forward, to
get the story out there, to find the truth about
our mysterious world. Kelly's links will be in the show notes,
of course, so definitely go give her a follow and
make sure to check out her show. And hey, thank
you to all of you out there for listening today

(50:15):
and hanging out with me again. My name is Jeff
and this is the Strangeology Podcast. As always, I want
to give a huge thank you out there to everyone
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(50:38):
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(51:00):
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(51:23):
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Speaker 3 (51:24):
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an extended guest interview. There's also a permanent thirty percent
off merch discount to my Etsy shop and exclusive member
only designs, behind the scenes content, voting power on future topics,
and more. It's a great way to join a growing
community of like minded people who love exploring the strange
and unexplained, and I appreciate every single member and your

(52:30):
support truly helps keep the lights on here at Strangeology
HQ and fuels the content pipeline. So again, that's Patreon
dot com Forward slash Strangeology.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
We'll see you there.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, and speaking of merch, don't forget to check out
my shop over at Strangeology dot etsy dot com. If
you're into cryptids, aliens, ancient mysteries and all things fourteen.
I've got you covered with this. We've got designs on shirts, stickers, prints,
and more. There's really something for everyone. I've added some
awesome new sticker designs recently, as well as my squonk

(53:03):
shirt that I had that pretty much sold out at Squankapalooza,
but you can find it on the Etsy shop in
all sorts of sizes, all sorts of different garments, and
there's always more on the way, so keep checking back
often for new designs. The links will be in the
show notes as always.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
All Right, that's the show for today.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Strangeology Beyond will be returning as soon as possible with
more bonus content, so keep an eye out for that.
I'm also uploading the Strangeology Beyond back catalog to my
YouTube channel. I think I've got about fifteen episodes up.
I haven't had a lot of time to upload more,
but there's more coming. If you want to sign up

(53:43):
for a YouTube membership, that'll be available there. But until
the next time, make sure to take care of yourselves
and each other and keep it strange

Speaker 3 (55:01):
To