August 16, 2024 • 41 mins
One of Hamas’ stated objectives, when the Palestinian militant outfit launched the October 7, 2023, attacks against southern Israel, was to derail the Abraham Accords normalization process between Israel and Arabs.
Has Hamas succeeded in the objective, as Israel’s war with the militant group entered its tenth month earlier this month?
What challenges has Israel’s “Operation Swords of Iron” brought to the Abraham Accords?
How has the Biden-Harris administration undermined and neglected the Accords, and what must a future Republican administration and Israel do to fix any damage the normalization process suffered due to the Palestinian attack on October 7?
To answer these questions, Andrew Jose, host of Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose and the Andrew Jose Show, sat down with Aryeh Lightstone, former U.S. Special Envoy for Economic Normalization and one of the architects of the Abraham Accords. Aryeh is the author of the book Let My People Know: The Incredible Story of Middle East Peace―and What Lies Ahead.
The views expressed by the podcast guests are their own and do not necessarily represent the official positions of Andrew Jose, Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose, and Andrew Jose Media.
Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose is an initiative of Andrew Jose Media.
Has Hamas succeeded in the objective, as Israel’s war with the militant group entered its tenth month earlier this month?
What challenges has Israel’s “Operation Swords of Iron” brought to the Abraham Accords?
How has the Biden-Harris administration undermined and neglected the Accords, and what must a future Republican administration and Israel do to fix any damage the normalization process suffered due to the Palestinian attack on October 7?
To answer these questions, Andrew Jose, host of Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose and the Andrew Jose Show, sat down with Aryeh Lightstone, former U.S. Special Envoy for Economic Normalization and one of the architects of the Abraham Accords. Aryeh is the author of the book Let My People Know: The Incredible Story of Middle East Peace―and What Lies Ahead.
The views expressed by the podcast guests are their own and do not necessarily represent the official positions of Andrew Jose, Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose, and Andrew Jose Media.
Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose is an initiative of Andrew Jose Media.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Abraham Accords were a series of bilateral agreements normalizing
relations between Israel and several Arab states that once forced
war relations with the Jewish State.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Signed under the auspices of former United States President Donald Trump,
the accords were signed between Israel and the United Arab
Emirates and between Israel and Bahrain on September fifteenth, twenty
twenty one. Morocco would later join the accords. The agreements
didn't come out of a vacuum. They were the culmination
of nearly fifteen years of mostly tacit relationships and long
conversations between key officials of the various countries. These conversations
(00:32):
were mature, multifaceted, wide ranging, and focused on common strategic
concerns and regional threats. However, over the years, especially after
the Palestinian attack on southern Israel on October seventh and
Israel's response concerns over the Abraham Accords, fracturing have emerged
as relations between Israel and its Arab partners have grown tense,
and tourism and trade experiencing modest decreases.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You're listening to strategic wisdom with Andrew Jose. Strategic wisdom
is a Foreign Affairs and politics podcasts brought to you
by Andrew Jose, a Washington, DC based security policy analyst
and news reporter, bringing you timely commentary on issues in
international relations, war and security policy.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Were your presenters Gabrielle Sapchuk.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And Ian Stormfeld.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
What is the future of the Abraham Accords after October seventh?
Will it rupture or will it continue? And expand how
will a future Trump administration should Trump, the Republican nominee
for the November twenty twenty four presidential elections win affect
the Accords and its prospects.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
To answer these questions, Joining Andrew today is ARII Lightstone,
one of the architects of the Abraham Accords. Arie is
also the author of the book Let My People Know,
The incredible story of Middle East Peace and what lies ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Without further ado, we're going to hand the floor over
to Andrew jose.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Ria Lightstone served as senior advisor to US Ambassador to
Israel David Friedman from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one.
He played a critical role in advancing bilateral US Israel relations,
with a focus on five G implementation, infrastructure expansion, and
economic development. Furthermore, Aria was instrumental in facilitating the opening
(02:45):
of the US Embassy in Jerusalem, as well as its
successful merger with the Jerusalem Consulate. He led the inaugural
Abraham Accord business Summit, directed the Abraham Fund, and was
the point person in the Middle East for the actualization
of the Abraham Accords. Aria Lightstone, Welcome to the show.
(03:07):
Thank you so much for having me. We're over three
years in from the signing of the Abraham Accords. As
someone who played a crucial role in the implementation of
the Abraham Accords, could you share some insights on the
behind the scenes negotiations that led to this monumental accords.
What were the key challenges and breakthroughs you say that
(03:29):
existed during these discussions and negotiations.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
We're actually going to achieve the four year anniverstory of them.
This August in September, depending on where you measure, from
August thirteen to twenty twenty, was the first phone call
that took place in between the leader of the UAE
leader Israel, hosted by President Trump. In September fifteenth, was
the monumental dining ceremony in Washington, d C. Will the
(03:58):
Foreign Minister of by Rain, the fore Minister of the
U a e. The Prime Minister of Israel, again hosted
by the President of the United States America Donald Trump.
So what's remarkable about all that? And I think we'll
have time to talk about where it is and where
it's going. In order to get there, in order for
that August thirteenth phone call to Hap, in order for
(04:20):
that September fifteenth signing ceremony to occur, the United States
of America took a different approach under President Trump thing
had taken before. And if you remember, we are five
years from the anniversary of John Kerry saying in December
of twenty sixteen that could there ever be normalization between
(04:41):
Israel and any other Arab countries without a full piece
with the Palestinian He responded, no, no, and no. And
he responded because up to that point in time, that
had been US policy. And it's important just to understand,
the US policy was that the Middle East will remain
(05:01):
the confusing and complicated place for the United States of
America until Israel and the Palestinians make a final and
lasting piece, and therefore all efforts of the US foreign
policy were based upon this elusive two state solution. If
you track the amount of trips that John Kerry, as
(05:23):
Secretary of State and as a negotiator made to Israel
and the Palestini Authority areas over his time as Secretary
of State, it's arguable he was in Israel more than
he was in the United States of America. And I
don't say that tongue in cheek. I say that where
the listeners to understand that all of the focus was
(05:44):
on this grandiose deal. And when President Trump came into
office and he hired Jared Kushner and David Freedman to
conduct Middle East policy, they looked at it different. David's job,
Ambassador Freedman's job was to strength in the US Israel relationship,
and Jared Kushner's job was to look at the region
(06:05):
as a whole and to see what opportunities could be
taken from there. And what was fascinating was both of
these opportunities were able to take place in parallel. If
you remember, under Ambassador Friedman's leadership, with President Trump's direction,
there was the recognition of Drewson into the capitol in Israel.
There was the moving of the embassy to Drusalem, there
(06:25):
was the recognition of the goal on Height, there was
the Peace to Prosperity workshop, and there was the Deal
of the Century that all came out, and all of
those actions happened at the same time where Jared Kushion
was traveling the rest of the region trying to find
out what was happening at Saudi, what was happening to UAE,
what was happening about Graham Morocco, et cetera, sex And
(06:46):
what was unbelievable about that was that President Trump gave
the direction to his team that said, find out what
works for those countries and let's see how we can
establish a better relationship with them. And the key component
from that was two things at once. Number One is
the moderate Arab states, we're looking for a consistent relationship
(07:10):
with the United States of America against the malfeasance caused
by the Islamic Republic of Iran, and Israel was looking
to know that they were truly America's number one ally
in the region. And if both of those things could
be true at the same time, that meant that the
path to Washington, d C. Went through Jerusalem, and that
(07:31):
meant that for the moderate states in the region, that
in the uas bust interest, in Bahrain's best interests, in
Morocco's best interest, it made more sense to make peace
with Israel, to normalize with Israel, than to wait for
a deal with the Palestinians. That was lightly never took.
I know that was a long answer, but I wanted
just to give the appropriate context.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
How would you say the arrival of the Biden administration
affect the Accords for the better or for the worst?
In twenty twenty one, in The New York Post, the
Post editorial board wrote that the Biden administration was even
forbidding at the time. According to The New York Post,
the mention of the name Abraham accords with senior State
(08:16):
Department spokesman and officials referring to them as quote normalization agreements,
and even a former Trump official told The New York
Post that a friend of theirs in the Energy Department
was also instructed to using the term normalization agreements. So
has the Biden administration taking over affected the Accords in
(08:38):
a negative or a positive way? When you're not willing
to call the accords by their name, you clearly are
not supportive of the accord. In fact, when Ned Price,
the stokes person for the State Department, was asked by
Matt Lee and May twenty twenty one, what do you
call these agreements? The previous administration that go ciated Ned Price,
(09:01):
the stokes person, the voice of the United States of America,
twisted himself into a pretzel so as not to say
the words abra amal cors And I sat down that
night and I wrote a book called let My People Know.
And the concept of the book is, hey, guys, there's
peace happening in the Middle East, but the United States
of America, who broke these piece agreements won't even tell
(09:23):
you about it because of politics and personality. Not book
us a policy. So the Biden administration on day number one,
back all over the Abrahamial Corps, not calling it their name,
not supporting the alliance, is not standing with Israel. And
at the same time of doing that, they immediately had
an outreach to Iran. And so all of the things
(09:44):
that the Trump administration had brought to the table, which is,
we stand unequivocally and always Israel, We stand always and
unequivocally against the Islamic Republic of Iran as long as
they are participating in the state sponsor of terrorism, and
we will support them hundred Arab of states to come
closer to us and further from China. All of those
things were baked into the recipe of added all the
(10:06):
Abraham courts, and President Biden shows up and says, nah,
let's see if we can bring Ron back in the fall,
and let's see if we can create daylight in between
US and Israel, and that delivers the Middle East.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
We have now seen over the over the course of
the last.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
For you, how do you think Kamala Harris potentially becoming
president in November would affect the course of the Abrama courts.
In Kamala Harris's recent statement after her meeting with Nathan Yao,
we see a sort of slight contempt, as some observers
would point out, in her approach towards Israel in the
(10:43):
way she talked about the Palestinians that some say was
her backhandedly pointing fingers at Israel. How do you think
that her presidency and her administration, with a lot of
current Bide administration officials be replaced with picks of Kamala
Harris effect the Abraham Accords.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
I described the Trump administration as the administration that created
peace in the Middle East. I described the Biden administration
as the administration that squandered the opportunity to expand that
across the rest of the Middle East. Present Harris administration
will likely leave the Middle East in far worse shape
(11:27):
than she would possibly inherit it for two three very
clear reasons. Number one is she is shown by boycotting
Prime Minister nathaniao speech, by the clear words that she
gives credence to the prop commas protesters on US campuses,
and by the calls for ceasefire without any context to
(11:49):
how the war began and how the war must end. Essentially,
her calls for ceasefire are a demand a most remain
in power. When you look at all of those things,
that is a recipe for an America last policy, and
an America last policy will hurt all of our allies.
So that means that Israel, the United Arabamates, Bahrain, Morocco,
Saudi Arabia will all fall from the position of having
(12:14):
strong US relationships, and the Iranian the Palacity authority the
mass because baalana Huti's will all progress meaningfully under a
Harris administration.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Moving away from the Biden administration prior to the shocking
Hamas attack on October seven? What challenges would you say
the Abraham Accords was facing in the lead up to
October seventh? Would you say there was some sort of
Abraham Accords fatigue?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
No, I would say to the exact opposite, Why did
the momentum that was behind the Abraham Accords slowed down
or even stip And the answer is they did not
stop the trade and the economic connectivity in between Israel
and the five countries that they normally wise with have
grown year over year double digit growth, which is very
very What has slowed down was what I would call
(13:08):
both big projects as well as the public sense of warrant.
And the reason for that had nothing to do with
October seventh, because you're asking me about October six. The
reason for that is with all new relationships, those relationships
need to be guided and enhanced and nurtured and progressed.
And those relationships are longed to be guided and enhanced,
(13:28):
nurtured and progressed by the United States of America Club
because it was our responsibility for putting these relationships together.
It remains our responsibility to be able to grow these
relationship to their fruition when the Biden administration originally ignored
the Abram Accords and then later introduced this concept of
(13:49):
the N seven. What the N seven did was it
put the Palestinian smack back in the middle of the
Abrama Cords and for the Palestinians, without any requisites, are
the unique to join these opportunities by reforming your judicial system,
by changing your laws again, paying people to kill Jews
(14:11):
and Israeli on other Westerners. Basic step that we would
expect in any other participant in any other conference, that
we would have by introducing them to the middle of
the flow, not only introducing them, by requiring that they
would be a component of everything that was happening. Most
of the countries involved with the Abram Accords and said,
here we go again. The veto that Atala students had,
(14:34):
which was removed by the Abrama courts, has been reintroduced
by the Biden administration, much to the chagrin of all
of the abraml Court countries.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
The October seventh attack by Hamas resulted in the death
of one thy two hundred people in Israel. Understandably, Israel
responded with crushing force in a protracted war with Hamas
that as of August seventh is in its tenth month.
How do you think October seventh has affected the dynamics
of the Abrama Accords? Did it change the perception or
(15:07):
stance of any of the signatory countries towards the accords?
And what are the challenges that the US and Israel
should overcome in revitalizing the accords after or even during
the current war.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I want to begin by giving credit the United Arab Emirates,
Bahrain and Morocco Ramadi Fronk in the Abraham Accords against
overwhelming pressure by their fellow Arab countries and in some
cases by their citizen just to paint the appropriate picture.
In the United States of America, which is the most
(15:47):
pro Israel country outside of Israel, the studies have shown
that over around eighty percent of the information both mainstream
media and social media is negative towards Israel, with about
twenty percent neutral or positive. If you now take that
to the Middle East, the Arabic speaking countries of the
(16:07):
Middle East and North Africa, that comes closer to ninety
nine percent. In some countries even one hundred percent negative,
with nothing neutral and nothing pro and within all of
that for a sustained period of time, as you said,
over ten months, the Amoradis, the Bahrains and the Moroccan
have maintained and the kasto Artis I'm sorry as well
(16:30):
in Costvo have maintained the Abra Amial Cords and tried
to use that in the best possible way both to
enhance their relationships with Israel but also to be able
to provide benefits to the Palestinians in Gaza. One of
the greatest examples of that is the Amoradi Hospital in Gaza.
But work some coordination with both the United States of
America and the State of Israel has brought enormous comfort
(16:54):
and aid to Palestinian civilians in Gaza meeting. So that's
number one, I give credit to that. Number two is
we have to acknowledge how hard it's been for those
leaders over this ten month because when your people only
hear negative things, So what's the positive aspect of the
peace trees that they signed? And number three is one
(17:17):
of the ideas about Israel was that they were invincible.
Anything you can throw out and they can shoot missiles
out of the sky, they can tap into people's skulls
halfway across the world with the entire region and trying
to destroy Israel time after time after time. Israel has
not only survived, but it's thrived. And part of that
(17:37):
made it such an attracting partment in the Abraham Accords,
and on October seventh that was weakned the meaning meaningfully.
The mystique about his rating superiority went out the window
when not only over twelve hundred people were raped, murdered massacres,
but two hundred and fifty people were kidnapped into guys.
(17:58):
And ten months later there's at least one hundred alive
undead is Raelis who are still in Basi. And that
is the concept or the myth of Israeli invincibility that
will take some time to overcome. But the final and
the most important part about all of this is that
in this war, which has to do with Commas for
(18:20):
petrating the civil worst massacre against the Jewish people since
the Holocaust, since the depths of the Hour, Israel's number
one ally the United States of America has not had
from its administration of Biden Harris administration has not stood
one hundred percent with Israel and the rest of the
allies around the region, especially the Abramaport allies, have come
(18:44):
to two conclusions. Type number one is if America isn't
going to stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel, I can't
stand shoulder to shoulder when there's own meaning the ceiling
for pro Israel support is whatever the United States in
America gives. But the second realization they've come to is,
if America isn't going to stand with Israel in this
(19:04):
serpl could we really rely on America to stand with
us if we need it? Many in the most moral
circumstance that you can imagine on October seven, the ability
to go ahead and free their own citizens and to
get rid of the cancerous terror organization on its own border.
(19:25):
The United States of America can't support that. Would they
really support the Emordis if they had an issue? Would
they really support? Would the US really support Bahrain? Would
we really support Morocco if they were in a studied
war with Algeria? Would we really do that? When push
comes to shop and all of that pierces the concept
of the a Brownal Courters, which includes the United States
(19:46):
of America and relying on the United States of America
to be not only a voice and clarity, but also
a security blanket for all the country's.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Evolved questions about the US is willing to exist Its
partners in times of crisis in the Middle East has often,
as we have seen, led the United Arab Emirates and
a few other golf countries to normalize with Iran. From this,
(20:15):
I have two questions, how do you think Tehran's normalization
with golf countries affect the prospects of a joint Abraham
alliance against Iran? And how do you assess the conventional
wisdom in Washington on pivoting towards Asia at the expense
(20:36):
of West Asia. One thing we observe is that the
more Washington is trying to move away from West Asia
towards Southeast Asia and Northeast Asia, we are seeing China
have a greater footprint in the Middle East. So do
you think that to some extent it is not a
good idea to fully pivot a way to Asia? And
(20:57):
along with that the previous question as well, how do
you think Tehran's normalization with golf countries effect any joint
action prospects?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
With the United States of America being an unreliable hour
in the Middle East. What choice does the United Arab
Emirates have? What choice does the Kingdom of Bakrain have?
They are not going to fight Iran or stand up
to Iran, or be protected from Iran on their own.
And the United States of America and of the Biden
Harrison administration has shown not only no interest in isolating Iran,
(21:33):
it's Sunday exact opposite. It is leveled up Iran and
diminished our relationship with the Emiralds, with the Bahrainis, with
the Saudi's, with the State of Israel. And so those
factories have to make a choice. Are they going to
create this scenario on their own, which they're not going to,
or are they going to go add and deal with
(21:54):
the Iranians in a way that they best possibly can,
which would be as peaceful and as is careful the
possibly can. And that's been the pursuit that been made
to connect question number one with question number two. The
most clear exam of Chinese influence in the Middle East
or in Western Asia, as you so appropriately describe it,
(22:17):
there's been there were five peace deals negotiated by President
Trump in one hundred and twenty three days for the
Arounal courts. In the last nearly four years, there's been
only one piece deal that's been negotiating in the Middle East,
and that was in between the Islamic Republic of Iran
and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and that was broken
(22:38):
by China, not by the United States of America. The
Saudis have said that they will trade petrol, not in
dollars the United States of America has needed from the region,
and that Chinese have seen themselves a golden opportunity to
expand its sphere of influence, and not only expand its
sphere of influence, but to hurt the United States of
America and a meeting what the Chinese have developed a
(23:02):
relationship China, Russia, Iran that causes problems in Ukraine, that
is causing problems in Israel, it will cause problems in
Southeast Asia. And the Biden Harris policy of appeasement has
only brought more adventurism from these bad actors and good
enough to justice League Fighter jets or bombers from Russia
(23:26):
and China flying in Alaskan airspace. In my lifetime, I've
never seen a weaker, more effeckless at US administration. And
it's not just the Abramaccord countries that are hurting, it's
the entire rest of the world. Now here's the advantage.
The advantage in the United States of America is still
the world's greatest super bower. If it choose it to
(23:47):
put the Abraham Accord countries and build an Abraham a
line like Prime Minister Netano discussed, which should happen, could happen,
was going to happen in a Trump second term, then
that actually ables the US to shift its focus to
Eastern Asia, Southeast Asia, Northeast Asia, because the Abraham Allianus
(24:08):
will be able to maintain a full security control over
the critical region of the Persian go on it on
their own. So this is yet again another midstep by
the Biden Harris administrals.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Moving away from the Abraham Accords and talking about the
Israel Palestinian conflict. One of the positions the US has
somewhat been consistent on is propping up the Palestinian authority. However,
we've seen that the Palestinian Authority, aside from its long
(24:42):
held practice of sending money to terrorist groups, has recently
signed an agreement with Hamas in Beijing where both groups
Flata and Hamas, agreed that they would work together in
any future Palestinian government. How does that that would you say?
Has the US's positioner popping up the Palestine Authority been
(25:07):
vote for the United States's vision for piece in them
at least and also Israel's security as we see the
Palastine Authority use its privileged position to undermine Israeli security
with this sort of legal green light from Washington and
the rest of the Western world.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
The US relationship with the Palestinian Authority and the two
state solutions in general has been wrong for forty years,
with the exception of four years of Donald Trump. Jered
questionner David Grieman, Michael and the reason why it's the
wrong because it got up on the wrong But if
you can imagine today a if you drive through today
(25:47):
on Samaria, you'll approach parts of the Palaestin the Authority,
and the sign that it says before you approach those
territories is Jews and Israeli should not enter for fear
of death. And the concept that America would support the
(26:07):
establishment of territories or a governing entity or even a
state that on its foundation would be built specifically to
keep out Jews and Israelis is so fundamentally qua Can
you imagine replaces who were Jews or Israelis with any
other minority, and the United States of America considering them
(26:28):
a true partner for peace in a region. We're going
to build a country that won't allow white people and
allow black people, that won't allow Asian people, that won't
allow gay people. Can you imagine saying any of those
words and the United States of America being support of that.
I mean, it's insane when you say it out loud,
but we allow these exceptions for Israel time and time again.
(26:49):
President Trump came into office and he said, this doesn't
make any sense. Let's instead of lower the bar and
expectations for everybody else, we plugged a billion ten some
billions of dollars into the Palace and authority, and this
concept called the two state solution without any richer. Let's
instead of giving them more, let's expect more, Let's demand
(27:11):
more and see if they can rise the occasion. And
the answer is the current group cannot rise to the
occasion because they've got the greatest boondoggle and their issue
of boondoggles. I don't know how many people have stopped
to see that the leadership of Kamas is networth sitting
in a beautiful hotel in power is north of ten
billion dollars. Where do those ten billion dollars come from?
(27:31):
Are they computer programmers? Do they start Google? Maybe they're
great than capitalists. Maybe there's a lot of natural resources
and gods that they've been farming in tact, No, of
course not. They steal. They steal from their people, and
they steal from the International Committee, and they do it
without any shame, without any shame. It is one large
(27:53):
Mahia business. And until we call them out for being
a large family prime ring, then their behavior will never change.
And this is what the flaw has been with the
United States of America. It's always been if we're just
given this one more thing, then they'll moderate. We just
do this one more thing, then they'll change. And the
answer is no. Giving this one more thing is classic appeasement.
(28:16):
What you're looking at is, over the last forty years,
the United States of America has been governed by those
who follow Neville Chamber. Peace in our time is what
he proclaims, but leading to tragedy in war and for
four years we had Churchill for four years, we had
Trump and that actually brought us peace, even though people
all claim that he was a.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
War mom regarding the policy and authority. One individual some
people have pointed out as being a promising candidate to
revitalize the organization and also take care of the post
war situation in Gaza is Mohammed Dahlan, who was the
former FLATA leader and guzend who currently is a refugee
(29:02):
in the United Arab Emirates. What would your bet on
Muhammad Dahlan b for the United States and Israel working
with him as a partner, Do you think he's a
promising candidate or do you think that we still need
to know more before relying on Muhammed Dahlin.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
I choose not to rely on one name versus another name.
I think you have to talk about the culture, and
culture has to be a broad buy in to look.
The Palestinian need to make a decision. Do they want
to look like Singapore or Dubai or Jedda or do
they want to look like the way gays a city
(29:44):
and Conunis look today. And that's fully up to them.
But you can't build Dubai or Jedo or Singapore. If
you take all of the money that's been given to
you to build terror and to use it to be
able to deal for your leaders to live and anti
hotels and Qatar, or to go ahead and run drug
empires across South America. And that isn't how you've become
(30:08):
Dubai or Singapore or Jetta. You can do that when
you decide that you want to teach your kids to
be computer programmers and the state moguls and not martyrs
for the sake of murdering Israelis and Jews. And that
won't be determined by ba Lan or by any other
single individual. It will need to happen when the palace
(30:29):
and people decide that there is a better wait for them,
and there will be important leadership for that. And it
cout me again. I don't want to name names. I
think it's a misnomer. The West is always like if
I only had this person, then I would be able
to do something we're working on. At least forty years
and much like, more like and closer to eighty years
(30:52):
of the inculcation of such completing total hatred and value
towards terrorism and destruction that it's going to take a
lot more than one person can be able to try
this surround. But at the same time, I remain optimistic
that it's doable. I truly do.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
How would you say idealism has harmed US interests in
the Middle East? For example, we've seen with the rise
of hamas part of why the organization rose was as
early as the Bush administration, the United States was pushing
for democratic reforms without considering the implications, and as a
(31:32):
result you see Hamas taking power in the Middle East.
And then also with Yemen, we see for a long
while democrats condemned Saudi Arabia for its military action against
the Huties, but then what we see is that the
houthis because they were not eliminated enough, now are having
(31:54):
significant capability to hinder shipping through the Baba Munda strait.
How would you say this sort of idealism rather than
consideration of practical regional realities has harmed the US's interests
in the Middle East, and also with regards to the
Israel Palestinian conflict. For all of your listeners who live
(32:19):
in cities where they define and the police and it'll
put based on the social workers, you can decide with
first ten knowledge what it means to be idealistic versus realist,
and we could hope and we could pray that every
country will decide to have a democracy like the United
States of America, like Israel, like United Kingdom, et cetera,
(32:41):
and we can wind up with policies that it yield
with us the Middle East that we've experienced over the
last three and a half years, Which is I just
I if I wish harden things will come true the
way I want them to come true, I'll vote to realistically,
what am I gonna wind up doing? I don't know
why this is not the first time that anybody mentions
(33:03):
about the Huti di Biden administration took them off the
foreign terror list on the first day. What if THEO
is done to indicate to anybody that they don't belong
on the terrorist and of first they belong on the terrorist.
They are actual terrorists, and they tell you that they
are terrorists. So who's interest is it to take them
(33:26):
off the terrorists? The same thing with iron and what
world do we need less in our sanctions and to
bring them back to the table. They tell you what
they want to do. They chant definitely Israel and anybody
who listens to the speech for long enough, it's another
three seconds they say, get to a miracle right after.
In what way do those groups require us to be
(33:47):
able to wish that, my goodness, if we just do
one more lovely thing with them, they're going to turn
around and they're going to love America.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
It does work that way. It really doesn't. And you
see this time and time again with democratic policies. It's
a possibility in the university needs to make sense amongst
other university professors and presidents. But in the real world
of people have had actual jobs and are responsible for
actual deliverables, none of this works. And by the way,
(34:15):
that's one of the reasons why the Trump team was
so successful. None of them were professional diplomat and when
they were told what professional diplomats do, they like, well,
maybe it works differently in the diplomatic world. And it
turns out it doesn't. It doesn't. The laws of the
world still apply. Just apparently nobody taught the State Department.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
One thing that is clear from the Biden administration is
disastrous four years in office, is that if President Trump
wins in twenty twenty. In November twenty twenty four, There's
going to be a lot of housekeeping to do to
clean up many of the things that came as a
result of the Biden administration. As such, what challenges do
(34:58):
you think away the tru administration in the US's relationships
with first Saudi Arabia and in general the Arab Gulf States.
What are the things that the Biden administration messed up
or neglected that President Trump has to fix and do
differently when he takes office. Say if you were to
(35:20):
set out a list for President Trump where you lay
out the things to do in an order of priority,
what would your list look like? Aria?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Thank you for that question. It's a long list, but
I'll give you sort of the highlights because they're not
hard things to do, you just need to do them.
The first thing is you need to immediately put back
all of the sanctions on Iran at the highest capacity
plot And then you need to call our allies in
Europe that have seen what's happened with Ukraine and how
(35:52):
Ukraine is limited in their response because of the Russian
nuclear umbrella. And you need to articulate to Germany and
to France and the UK that we're expecting incredibly harsh
sanctioned by them against Iran as well. And then we
message to China, who's been the escape val for Iran,
I want you to stop being an escape valve. That
(36:12):
all happened in the first several minutes of a presidential administration.
And then the President shouldn't invite the President of the
United Arab Emirates and the King of Bahrain and the
King of Morocco to Washington, DC, or at least to
a virtual meeting and to thank them for their leadership.
They made peace without any preconditions or with minimal preconditions
(36:36):
four years prior. They were able to maintain that peace
through a very challenging year in the Middle East from
October seventh until President Trump's new term begins, and they
should be commended and they should be thanked, and the
President says, we look forward to building a new Middle
East with you. And then the President's going to invite
the Prime Minister of Israel, whoever he or she may be,
(36:56):
to the Oval Office for a sit down, and he
will explain to the American people onto the rest of
the world that Israel is our greatest ally in the
region and we are going to build this Abrahamic alliance.
We are going to expand the abraham A courts, not
because it's good for Israel, which it is, not because
it's good for our moderate Arab allies in the region,
which it is, but because it's an America's best interest.
(37:19):
When people want to know, does America stand for something?
We stand with our allies, will we support them, will
we help them work together? Then absolutely that'll be the case.
And then after we've done that, we demonstrate the Iran
that we're isolated them. We've demonstrated to our allies that
we stand by them, and we thank them. We're demonstrating
to Israel that they are indeed our lasting and most
(37:40):
significant ally in the region. We then go to the
Palestinians and to the Iranian and we'd say, here are
the following ten things that you need to do if
you ever want to come from the tape. If you
do these things, then it's fantastic. Our arms are wide open.
We're prepared to welcome you into the community of nation.
If you do not do these things, just understand that
(38:01):
we don't do things halfway. You will be treated as
our adversary, and we will treat you as such. And
just lay out an incredibly clear Trumpian. Trump's president Trumping
uniquely capable of doing the difference in between being an
ally of the United States and Magathat versus being an
addressary with the United States and Maripa, and let those
(38:22):
countries choose what they want to do. And you can
accomplish all of that in the first three more days.
And I'm positive that within the first year of the
Trump administration you'll see the Abraham Accord Circle at Piece
more than double from five countries to at least ten countries.
I think that you will see meaningful changes within Palestinian behavior,
(38:43):
and you'll see an opportunity to hopefully read build Gaza
in a place where it is not the thorn in
the side of peace and the region, but rather it
could be the example of what regional integration in the
region should look like. And all of that is accomplishable
with somebody who's got the vision, in the foresight, but
most important strength in the fortitude of a president light President.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Ladies and gentlemen, you just listen to Aria Lightstone, author
of Let My People Know The Incredible Story of the
Middle East piece and what Liza Ahead Aria is one
of the architects at the Abraham Accords, Aria Lightstone. Thank
you for your time.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose is an initiative of Andrew
Jose Media. The views expressed by guests on this show
do not necessarily represent the official positions and opinions of
Andrew Jose, Andrew Jose Media, and Strategic Wisdom.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Thank you for listening to Strategic Wisdom. Be sure to
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are using to listen to this show in order to
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Jose will bring to you on this podcast. We're streaming
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(40:04):
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Speaker 3 (40:20):
Thank you so much, Gabby, and thank you so much.
Ian ladies and gentlemen. This is your host, Andrew Jose
signing off
The Abraham Accords were a series of bilateral agreements normalizing
relations between Israel and several Arab states that once forced
war relations with the Jewish State.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Signed under the auspices of former United States President Donald Trump,
the accords were signed between Israel and the United Arab
Emirates and between Israel and Bahrain on September fifteenth, twenty
twenty one. Morocco would later join the accords. The agreements
didn't come out of a vacuum. They were the culmination
of nearly fifteen years of mostly tacit relationships and long
conversations between key officials of the various countries. These conversations
(00:32):
were mature, multifaceted, wide ranging, and focused on common strategic
concerns and regional threats. However, over the years, especially after
the Palestinian attack on southern Israel on October seventh and
Israel's response concerns over the Abraham Accords, fracturing have emerged
as relations between Israel and its Arab partners have grown tense,
and tourism and trade experiencing modest decreases.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You're listening to strategic wisdom with Andrew Jose. Strategic wisdom
is a Foreign Affairs and politics podcasts brought to you
by Andrew Jose, a Washington, DC based security policy analyst
and news reporter, bringing you timely commentary on issues in
international relations, war and security policy.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Were your presenters Gabrielle Sapchuk.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And Ian Stormfeld.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
What is the future of the Abraham Accords after October seventh?
Will it rupture or will it continue? And expand how
will a future Trump administration should Trump, the Republican nominee
for the November twenty twenty four presidential elections win affect
the Accords and its prospects.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
To answer these questions, Joining Andrew today is ARII Lightstone,
one of the architects of the Abraham Accords. Arie is
also the author of the book Let My People Know,
The incredible story of Middle East Peace and what lies ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Without further ado, we're going to hand the floor over
to Andrew jose.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Ria Lightstone served as senior advisor to US Ambassador to
Israel David Friedman from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one.
He played a critical role in advancing bilateral US Israel relations,
with a focus on five G implementation, infrastructure expansion, and
economic development. Furthermore, Aria was instrumental in facilitating the opening
(02:45):
of the US Embassy in Jerusalem, as well as its
successful merger with the Jerusalem Consulate. He led the inaugural
Abraham Accord business Summit, directed the Abraham Fund, and was
the point person in the Middle East for the actualization
of the Abraham Accords. Aria Lightstone, Welcome to the show.
(03:07):
Thank you so much for having me. We're over three
years in from the signing of the Abraham Accords. As
someone who played a crucial role in the implementation of
the Abraham Accords, could you share some insights on the
behind the scenes negotiations that led to this monumental accords.
What were the key challenges and breakthroughs you say that
(03:29):
existed during these discussions and negotiations.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
We're actually going to achieve the four year anniverstory of them.
This August in September, depending on where you measure, from
August thirteen to twenty twenty, was the first phone call
that took place in between the leader of the UAE
leader Israel, hosted by President Trump. In September fifteenth, was
the monumental dining ceremony in Washington, d C. Will the
(03:58):
Foreign Minister of by Rain, the fore Minister of the
U a e. The Prime Minister of Israel, again hosted
by the President of the United States America Donald Trump.
So what's remarkable about all that? And I think we'll
have time to talk about where it is and where
it's going. In order to get there, in order for
that August thirteenth phone call to Hap, in order for
(04:20):
that September fifteenth signing ceremony to occur, the United States
of America took a different approach under President Trump thing
had taken before. And if you remember, we are five
years from the anniversary of John Kerry saying in December
of twenty sixteen that could there ever be normalization between
(04:41):
Israel and any other Arab countries without a full piece
with the Palestinian He responded, no, no, and no. And
he responded because up to that point in time, that
had been US policy. And it's important just to understand,
the US policy was that the Middle East will remain
(05:01):
the confusing and complicated place for the United States of
America until Israel and the Palestinians make a final and
lasting piece, and therefore all efforts of the US foreign
policy were based upon this elusive two state solution. If
you track the amount of trips that John Kerry, as
(05:23):
Secretary of State and as a negotiator made to Israel
and the Palestini Authority areas over his time as Secretary
of State, it's arguable he was in Israel more than
he was in the United States of America. And I
don't say that tongue in cheek. I say that where
the listeners to understand that all of the focus was
(05:44):
on this grandiose deal. And when President Trump came into
office and he hired Jared Kushner and David Freedman to
conduct Middle East policy, they looked at it different. David's job,
Ambassador Freedman's job was to strength in the US Israel relationship,
and Jared Kushner's job was to look at the region
(06:05):
as a whole and to see what opportunities could be
taken from there. And what was fascinating was both of
these opportunities were able to take place in parallel. If
you remember, under Ambassador Friedman's leadership, with President Trump's direction,
there was the recognition of Drewson into the capitol in Israel.
There was the moving of the embassy to Drusalem, there
(06:25):
was the recognition of the goal on Height, there was
the Peace to Prosperity workshop, and there was the Deal
of the Century that all came out, and all of
those actions happened at the same time where Jared Kushion
was traveling the rest of the region trying to find
out what was happening at Saudi, what was happening to UAE,
what was happening about Graham Morocco, et cetera, sex And
(06:46):
what was unbelievable about that was that President Trump gave
the direction to his team that said, find out what
works for those countries and let's see how we can
establish a better relationship with them. And the key component
from that was two things at once. Number One is
the moderate Arab states, we're looking for a consistent relationship
(07:10):
with the United States of America against the malfeasance caused
by the Islamic Republic of Iran, and Israel was looking
to know that they were truly America's number one ally
in the region. And if both of those things could
be true at the same time, that meant that the
path to Washington, d C. Went through Jerusalem, and that
(07:31):
meant that for the moderate states in the region, that
in the uas bust interest, in Bahrain's best interests, in
Morocco's best interest, it made more sense to make peace
with Israel, to normalize with Israel, than to wait for
a deal with the Palestinians. That was lightly never took.
I know that was a long answer, but I wanted
just to give the appropriate context.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
How would you say the arrival of the Biden administration
affect the Accords for the better or for the worst?
In twenty twenty one, in The New York Post, the
Post editorial board wrote that the Biden administration was even
forbidding at the time. According to The New York Post,
the mention of the name Abraham accords with senior State
(08:16):
Department spokesman and officials referring to them as quote normalization agreements,
and even a former Trump official told The New York
Post that a friend of theirs in the Energy Department
was also instructed to using the term normalization agreements. So
has the Biden administration taking over affected the Accords in
(08:38):
a negative or a positive way? When you're not willing
to call the accords by their name, you clearly are
not supportive of the accord. In fact, when Ned Price,
the stokes person for the State Department, was asked by
Matt Lee and May twenty twenty one, what do you
call these agreements? The previous administration that go ciated Ned Price,
(09:01):
the stokes person, the voice of the United States of America,
twisted himself into a pretzel so as not to say
the words abra amal cors And I sat down that
night and I wrote a book called let My People Know.
And the concept of the book is, hey, guys, there's
peace happening in the Middle East, but the United States
of America, who broke these piece agreements won't even tell
(09:23):
you about it because of politics and personality. Not book
us a policy. So the Biden administration on day number one,
back all over the Abrahamial Corps, not calling it their name,
not supporting the alliance, is not standing with Israel. And
at the same time of doing that, they immediately had
an outreach to Iran. And so all of the things
(09:44):
that the Trump administration had brought to the table, which is,
we stand unequivocally and always Israel, We stand always and
unequivocally against the Islamic Republic of Iran as long as
they are participating in the state sponsor of terrorism, and
we will support them hundred Arab of states to come
closer to us and further from China. All of those
things were baked into the recipe of added all the
(10:06):
Abraham courts, and President Biden shows up and says, nah,
let's see if we can bring Ron back in the fall,
and let's see if we can create daylight in between
US and Israel, and that delivers the Middle East.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
We have now seen over the over the course of
the last.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
For you, how do you think Kamala Harris potentially becoming
president in November would affect the course of the Abrama courts.
In Kamala Harris's recent statement after her meeting with Nathan Yao,
we see a sort of slight contempt, as some observers
would point out, in her approach towards Israel in the
(10:43):
way she talked about the Palestinians that some say was
her backhandedly pointing fingers at Israel. How do you think
that her presidency and her administration, with a lot of
current Bide administration officials be replaced with picks of Kamala
Harris effect the Abraham Accords.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
I described the Trump administration as the administration that created
peace in the Middle East. I described the Biden administration
as the administration that squandered the opportunity to expand that
across the rest of the Middle East. Present Harris administration
will likely leave the Middle East in far worse shape
(11:27):
than she would possibly inherit it for two three very
clear reasons. Number one is she is shown by boycotting
Prime Minister nathaniao speech, by the clear words that she
gives credence to the prop commas protesters on US campuses,
and by the calls for ceasefire without any context to
(11:49):
how the war began and how the war must end. Essentially,
her calls for ceasefire are a demand a most remain
in power. When you look at all of those things,
that is a recipe for an America last policy, and
an America last policy will hurt all of our allies.
So that means that Israel, the United Arabamates, Bahrain, Morocco,
Saudi Arabia will all fall from the position of having
(12:14):
strong US relationships, and the Iranian the Palacity authority the
mass because baalana Huti's will all progress meaningfully under a
Harris administration.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Moving away from the Biden administration prior to the shocking
Hamas attack on October seven? What challenges would you say
the Abraham Accords was facing in the lead up to
October seventh? Would you say there was some sort of
Abraham Accords fatigue?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
No, I would say to the exact opposite, Why did
the momentum that was behind the Abraham Accords slowed down
or even stip And the answer is they did not
stop the trade and the economic connectivity in between Israel
and the five countries that they normally wise with have
grown year over year double digit growth, which is very
very What has slowed down was what I would call
(13:08):
both big projects as well as the public sense of warrant.
And the reason for that had nothing to do with
October seventh, because you're asking me about October six. The
reason for that is with all new relationships, those relationships
need to be guided and enhanced and nurtured and progressed.
And those relationships are longed to be guided and enhanced,
(13:28):
nurtured and progressed by the United States of America Club
because it was our responsibility for putting these relationships together.
It remains our responsibility to be able to grow these
relationship to their fruition when the Biden administration originally ignored
the Abram Accords and then later introduced this concept of
(13:49):
the N seven. What the N seven did was it
put the Palestinian smack back in the middle of the
Abrama Cords and for the Palestinians, without any requisites, are
the unique to join these opportunities by reforming your judicial system,
by changing your laws again, paying people to kill Jews
(14:11):
and Israeli on other Westerners. Basic step that we would
expect in any other participant in any other conference, that
we would have by introducing them to the middle of
the flow, not only introducing them, by requiring that they
would be a component of everything that was happening. Most
of the countries involved with the Abram Accords and said,
here we go again. The veto that Atala students had,
(14:34):
which was removed by the Abrama courts, has been reintroduced
by the Biden administration, much to the chagrin of all
of the abraml Court countries.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
The October seventh attack by Hamas resulted in the death
of one thy two hundred people in Israel. Understandably, Israel
responded with crushing force in a protracted war with Hamas
that as of August seventh is in its tenth month.
How do you think October seventh has affected the dynamics
of the Abrama Accords? Did it change the perception or
(15:07):
stance of any of the signatory countries towards the accords?
And what are the challenges that the US and Israel
should overcome in revitalizing the accords after or even during
the current war.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I want to begin by giving credit the United Arab Emirates,
Bahrain and Morocco Ramadi Fronk in the Abraham Accords against
overwhelming pressure by their fellow Arab countries and in some
cases by their citizen just to paint the appropriate picture.
In the United States of America, which is the most
(15:47):
pro Israel country outside of Israel, the studies have shown
that over around eighty percent of the information both mainstream
media and social media is negative towards Israel, with about
twenty percent neutral or positive. If you now take that
to the Middle East, the Arabic speaking countries of the
(16:07):
Middle East and North Africa, that comes closer to ninety
nine percent. In some countries even one hundred percent negative,
with nothing neutral and nothing pro and within all of
that for a sustained period of time, as you said,
over ten months, the Amoradis, the Bahrains and the Moroccan
have maintained and the kasto Artis I'm sorry as well
(16:30):
in Costvo have maintained the Abra Amial Cords and tried
to use that in the best possible way both to
enhance their relationships with Israel but also to be able
to provide benefits to the Palestinians in Gaza. One of
the greatest examples of that is the Amoradi Hospital in Gaza.
But work some coordination with both the United States of
America and the State of Israel has brought enormous comfort
(16:54):
and aid to Palestinian civilians in Gaza meeting. So that's
number one, I give credit to that. Number two is
we have to acknowledge how hard it's been for those
leaders over this ten month because when your people only
hear negative things, So what's the positive aspect of the
peace trees that they signed? And number three is one
(17:17):
of the ideas about Israel was that they were invincible.
Anything you can throw out and they can shoot missiles
out of the sky, they can tap into people's skulls
halfway across the world with the entire region and trying
to destroy Israel time after time after time. Israel has
not only survived, but it's thrived. And part of that
(17:37):
made it such an attracting partment in the Abraham Accords,
and on October seventh that was weakned the meaning meaningfully.
The mystique about his rating superiority went out the window
when not only over twelve hundred people were raped, murdered massacres,
but two hundred and fifty people were kidnapped into guys.
(17:58):
And ten months later there's at least one hundred alive
undead is Raelis who are still in Basi. And that
is the concept or the myth of Israeli invincibility that
will take some time to overcome. But the final and
the most important part about all of this is that
in this war, which has to do with Commas for
(18:20):
petrating the civil worst massacre against the Jewish people since
the Holocaust, since the depths of the Hour, Israel's number
one ally the United States of America has not had
from its administration of Biden Harris administration has not stood
one hundred percent with Israel and the rest of the
allies around the region, especially the Abramaport allies, have come
(18:44):
to two conclusions. Type number one is if America isn't
going to stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel, I can't
stand shoulder to shoulder when there's own meaning the ceiling
for pro Israel support is whatever the United States in
America gives. But the second realization they've come to is,
if America isn't going to stand with Israel in this
(19:04):
serpl could we really rely on America to stand with
us if we need it? Many in the most moral
circumstance that you can imagine on October seven, the ability
to go ahead and free their own citizens and to
get rid of the cancerous terror organization on its own border.
(19:25):
The United States of America can't support that. Would they
really support the Emordis if they had an issue? Would
they really support? Would the US really support Bahrain? Would
we really support Morocco if they were in a studied
war with Algeria? Would we really do that? When push
comes to shop and all of that pierces the concept
of the a Brownal Courters, which includes the United States
(19:46):
of America and relying on the United States of America
to be not only a voice and clarity, but also
a security blanket for all the country's.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Evolved questions about the US is willing to exist Its
partners in times of crisis in the Middle East has often,
as we have seen, led the United Arab Emirates and
a few other golf countries to normalize with Iran. From this,
(20:15):
I have two questions, how do you think Tehran's normalization
with golf countries affect the prospects of a joint Abraham
alliance against Iran? And how do you assess the conventional
wisdom in Washington on pivoting towards Asia at the expense
(20:36):
of West Asia. One thing we observe is that the
more Washington is trying to move away from West Asia
towards Southeast Asia and Northeast Asia, we are seeing China
have a greater footprint in the Middle East. So do
you think that to some extent it is not a
good idea to fully pivot a way to Asia? And
(20:57):
along with that the previous question as well, how do
you think Tehran's normalization with golf countries effect any joint
action prospects?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
With the United States of America being an unreliable hour
in the Middle East. What choice does the United Arab
Emirates have? What choice does the Kingdom of Bakrain have?
They are not going to fight Iran or stand up
to Iran, or be protected from Iran on their own.
And the United States of America and of the Biden
Harrison administration has shown not only no interest in isolating Iran,
(21:33):
it's Sunday exact opposite. It is leveled up Iran and
diminished our relationship with the Emiralds, with the Bahrainis, with
the Saudi's, with the State of Israel. And so those
factories have to make a choice. Are they going to
create this scenario on their own, which they're not going to,
or are they going to go add and deal with
(21:54):
the Iranians in a way that they best possibly can,
which would be as peaceful and as is careful the
possibly can. And that's been the pursuit that been made
to connect question number one with question number two. The
most clear exam of Chinese influence in the Middle East
or in Western Asia, as you so appropriately describe it,
(22:17):
there's been there were five peace deals negotiated by President
Trump in one hundred and twenty three days for the
Arounal courts. In the last nearly four years, there's been
only one piece deal that's been negotiating in the Middle East,
and that was in between the Islamic Republic of Iran
and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and that was broken
(22:38):
by China, not by the United States of America. The
Saudis have said that they will trade petrol, not in
dollars the United States of America has needed from the region,
and that Chinese have seen themselves a golden opportunity to
expand its sphere of influence, and not only expand its
sphere of influence, but to hurt the United States of
America and a meeting what the Chinese have developed a
(23:02):
relationship China, Russia, Iran that causes problems in Ukraine, that
is causing problems in Israel, it will cause problems in
Southeast Asia. And the Biden Harris policy of appeasement has
only brought more adventurism from these bad actors and good
enough to justice League Fighter jets or bombers from Russia
(23:26):
and China flying in Alaskan airspace. In my lifetime, I've
never seen a weaker, more effeckless at US administration. And
it's not just the Abramaccord countries that are hurting, it's
the entire rest of the world. Now here's the advantage.
The advantage in the United States of America is still
the world's greatest super bower. If it choose it to
(23:47):
put the Abraham Accord countries and build an Abraham a
line like Prime Minister Netano discussed, which should happen, could happen,
was going to happen in a Trump second term, then
that actually ables the US to shift its focus to
Eastern Asia, Southeast Asia, Northeast Asia, because the Abraham Allianus
(24:08):
will be able to maintain a full security control over
the critical region of the Persian go on it on
their own. So this is yet again another midstep by
the Biden Harris administrals.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Moving away from the Abraham Accords and talking about the
Israel Palestinian conflict. One of the positions the US has
somewhat been consistent on is propping up the Palestinian authority. However,
we've seen that the Palestinian Authority, aside from its long
(24:42):
held practice of sending money to terrorist groups, has recently
signed an agreement with Hamas in Beijing where both groups
Flata and Hamas, agreed that they would work together in
any future Palestinian government. How does that that would you say?
Has the US's positioner popping up the Palestine Authority been
(25:07):
vote for the United States's vision for piece in them
at least and also Israel's security as we see the
Palastine Authority use its privileged position to undermine Israeli security
with this sort of legal green light from Washington and
the rest of the Western world.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
The US relationship with the Palestinian Authority and the two
state solutions in general has been wrong for forty years,
with the exception of four years of Donald Trump. Jered
questionner David Grieman, Michael and the reason why it's the
wrong because it got up on the wrong But if
you can imagine today a if you drive through today
(25:47):
on Samaria, you'll approach parts of the Palaestin the Authority,
and the sign that it says before you approach those
territories is Jews and Israeli should not enter for fear
of death. And the concept that America would support the
(26:07):
establishment of territories or a governing entity or even a
state that on its foundation would be built specifically to
keep out Jews and Israelis is so fundamentally qua Can
you imagine replaces who were Jews or Israelis with any
other minority, and the United States of America considering them
(26:28):
a true partner for peace in a region. We're going
to build a country that won't allow white people and
allow black people, that won't allow Asian people, that won't
allow gay people. Can you imagine saying any of those
words and the United States of America being support of that.
I mean, it's insane when you say it out loud,
but we allow these exceptions for Israel time and time again.
(26:49):
President Trump came into office and he said, this doesn't
make any sense. Let's instead of lower the bar and
expectations for everybody else, we plugged a billion ten some
billions of dollars into the Palace and authority, and this
concept called the two state solution without any richer. Let's
instead of giving them more, let's expect more, Let's demand
(27:11):
more and see if they can rise the occasion. And
the answer is the current group cannot rise to the
occasion because they've got the greatest boondoggle and their issue
of boondoggles. I don't know how many people have stopped
to see that the leadership of Kamas is networth sitting
in a beautiful hotel in power is north of ten
billion dollars. Where do those ten billion dollars come from?
(27:31):
Are they computer programmers? Do they start Google? Maybe they're
great than capitalists. Maybe there's a lot of natural resources
and gods that they've been farming in tact, No, of
course not. They steal. They steal from their people, and
they steal from the International Committee, and they do it
without any shame, without any shame. It is one large
(27:53):
Mahia business. And until we call them out for being
a large family prime ring, then their behavior will never change.
And this is what the flaw has been with the
United States of America. It's always been if we're just
given this one more thing, then they'll moderate. We just
do this one more thing, then they'll change. And the
answer is no. Giving this one more thing is classic appeasement.
(28:16):
What you're looking at is, over the last forty years,
the United States of America has been governed by those
who follow Neville Chamber. Peace in our time is what
he proclaims, but leading to tragedy in war and for
four years we had Churchill for four years, we had
Trump and that actually brought us peace, even though people
all claim that he was a.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
War mom regarding the policy and authority. One individual some
people have pointed out as being a promising candidate to
revitalize the organization and also take care of the post
war situation in Gaza is Mohammed Dahlan, who was the
former FLATA leader and guzend who currently is a refugee
(29:02):
in the United Arab Emirates. What would your bet on
Muhammad Dahlan b for the United States and Israel working
with him as a partner, Do you think he's a
promising candidate or do you think that we still need
to know more before relying on Muhammed Dahlin.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
I choose not to rely on one name versus another name.
I think you have to talk about the culture, and
culture has to be a broad buy in to look.
The Palestinian need to make a decision. Do they want
to look like Singapore or Dubai or Jedda or do
they want to look like the way gays a city
(29:44):
and Conunis look today. And that's fully up to them.
But you can't build Dubai or Jedo or Singapore. If
you take all of the money that's been given to
you to build terror and to use it to be
able to deal for your leaders to live and anti
hotels and Qatar, or to go ahead and run drug
empires across South America. And that isn't how you've become
(30:08):
Dubai or Singapore or Jetta. You can do that when
you decide that you want to teach your kids to
be computer programmers and the state moguls and not martyrs
for the sake of murdering Israelis and Jews. And that
won't be determined by ba Lan or by any other
single individual. It will need to happen when the palace
(30:29):
and people decide that there is a better wait for them,
and there will be important leadership for that. And it
cout me again. I don't want to name names. I
think it's a misnomer. The West is always like if
I only had this person, then I would be able
to do something we're working on. At least forty years
and much like, more like and closer to eighty years
(30:52):
of the inculcation of such completing total hatred and value
towards terrorism and destruction that it's going to take a
lot more than one person can be able to try
this surround. But at the same time, I remain optimistic
that it's doable. I truly do.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
How would you say idealism has harmed US interests in
the Middle East? For example, we've seen with the rise
of hamas part of why the organization rose was as
early as the Bush administration, the United States was pushing
for democratic reforms without considering the implications, and as a
(31:32):
result you see Hamas taking power in the Middle East.
And then also with Yemen, we see for a long
while democrats condemned Saudi Arabia for its military action against
the Huties, but then what we see is that the
houthis because they were not eliminated enough, now are having
(31:54):
significant capability to hinder shipping through the Baba Munda strait.
How would you say this sort of idealism rather than
consideration of practical regional realities has harmed the US's interests
in the Middle East, and also with regards to the
Israel Palestinian conflict. For all of your listeners who live
(32:19):
in cities where they define and the police and it'll
put based on the social workers, you can decide with
first ten knowledge what it means to be idealistic versus realist,
and we could hope and we could pray that every
country will decide to have a democracy like the United
States of America, like Israel, like United Kingdom, et cetera,
(32:41):
and we can wind up with policies that it yield
with us the Middle East that we've experienced over the
last three and a half years, Which is I just
I if I wish harden things will come true the
way I want them to come true, I'll vote to realistically,
what am I gonna wind up doing? I don't know
why this is not the first time that anybody mentions
(33:03):
about the Huti di Biden administration took them off the
foreign terror list on the first day. What if THEO
is done to indicate to anybody that they don't belong
on the terrorist and of first they belong on the terrorist.
They are actual terrorists, and they tell you that they
are terrorists. So who's interest is it to take them
(33:26):
off the terrorists? The same thing with iron and what
world do we need less in our sanctions and to
bring them back to the table. They tell you what
they want to do. They chant definitely Israel and anybody
who listens to the speech for long enough, it's another
three seconds they say, get to a miracle right after.
In what way do those groups require us to be
(33:47):
able to wish that, my goodness, if we just do
one more lovely thing with them, they're going to turn
around and they're going to love America.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
It does work that way. It really doesn't. And you
see this time and time again with democratic policies. It's
a possibility in the university needs to make sense amongst
other university professors and presidents. But in the real world
of people have had actual jobs and are responsible for
actual deliverables, none of this works. And by the way,
(34:15):
that's one of the reasons why the Trump team was
so successful. None of them were professional diplomat and when
they were told what professional diplomats do, they like, well,
maybe it works differently in the diplomatic world. And it
turns out it doesn't. It doesn't. The laws of the
world still apply. Just apparently nobody taught the State Department.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
One thing that is clear from the Biden administration is
disastrous four years in office, is that if President Trump
wins in twenty twenty. In November twenty twenty four, There's
going to be a lot of housekeeping to do to
clean up many of the things that came as a
result of the Biden administration. As such, what challenges do
(34:58):
you think away the tru administration in the US's relationships
with first Saudi Arabia and in general the Arab Gulf States.
What are the things that the Biden administration messed up
or neglected that President Trump has to fix and do
differently when he takes office. Say if you were to
(35:20):
set out a list for President Trump where you lay
out the things to do in an order of priority,
what would your list look like? Aria?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Thank you for that question. It's a long list, but
I'll give you sort of the highlights because they're not
hard things to do, you just need to do them.
The first thing is you need to immediately put back
all of the sanctions on Iran at the highest capacity
plot And then you need to call our allies in
Europe that have seen what's happened with Ukraine and how
(35:52):
Ukraine is limited in their response because of the Russian
nuclear umbrella. And you need to articulate to Germany and
to France and the UK that we're expecting incredibly harsh
sanctioned by them against Iran as well. And then we
message to China, who's been the escape val for Iran,
I want you to stop being an escape valve. That
(36:12):
all happened in the first several minutes of a presidential administration.
And then the President shouldn't invite the President of the
United Arab Emirates and the King of Bahrain and the
King of Morocco to Washington, DC, or at least to
a virtual meeting and to thank them for their leadership.
They made peace without any preconditions or with minimal preconditions
(36:36):
four years prior. They were able to maintain that peace
through a very challenging year in the Middle East from
October seventh until President Trump's new term begins, and they
should be commended and they should be thanked, and the
President says, we look forward to building a new Middle
East with you. And then the President's going to invite
the Prime Minister of Israel, whoever he or she may be,
(36:56):
to the Oval Office for a sit down, and he
will explain to the American people onto the rest of
the world that Israel is our greatest ally in the
region and we are going to build this Abrahamic alliance.
We are going to expand the abraham A courts, not
because it's good for Israel, which it is, not because
it's good for our moderate Arab allies in the region,
which it is, but because it's an America's best interest.
(37:19):
When people want to know, does America stand for something?
We stand with our allies, will we support them, will
we help them work together? Then absolutely that'll be the case.
And then after we've done that, we demonstrate the Iran
that we're isolated them. We've demonstrated to our allies that
we stand by them, and we thank them. We're demonstrating
to Israel that they are indeed our lasting and most
(37:40):
significant ally in the region. We then go to the
Palestinians and to the Iranian and we'd say, here are
the following ten things that you need to do if
you ever want to come from the tape. If you
do these things, then it's fantastic. Our arms are wide open.
We're prepared to welcome you into the community of nation.
If you do not do these things, just understand that
(38:01):
we don't do things halfway. You will be treated as
our adversary, and we will treat you as such. And
just lay out an incredibly clear Trumpian. Trump's president Trumping
uniquely capable of doing the difference in between being an
ally of the United States and Magathat versus being an
addressary with the United States and Maripa, and let those
(38:22):
countries choose what they want to do. And you can
accomplish all of that in the first three more days.
And I'm positive that within the first year of the
Trump administration you'll see the Abraham Accord Circle at Piece
more than double from five countries to at least ten countries.
I think that you will see meaningful changes within Palestinian behavior,
(38:43):
and you'll see an opportunity to hopefully read build Gaza
in a place where it is not the thorn in
the side of peace and the region, but rather it
could be the example of what regional integration in the
region should look like. And all of that is accomplishable
with somebody who's got the vision, in the foresight, but
most important strength in the fortitude of a president light President.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Ladies and gentlemen, you just listen to Aria Lightstone, author
of Let My People Know The Incredible Story of the
Middle East piece and what Liza Ahead Aria is one
of the architects at the Abraham Accords, Aria Lightstone. Thank
you for your time.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Strategic Wisdom with Andrew Jose is an initiative of Andrew
Jose Media. The views expressed by guests on this show
do not necessarily represent the official positions and opinions of
Andrew Jose, Andrew Jose Media, and Strategic Wisdom.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Thank you for listening to Strategic Wisdom. Be sure to
follow and subscribe to us on whatever podcast platform you
are using to listen to this show in order to
not miss out any future interviews and conversations that Andrew
Jose will bring to you on this podcast. We're streaming
on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Yandex, Geosovin, Amazon Music, and
many other podcast streaming services. Also, be sure to subscribe
(40:04):
to Strategic Wisdom on substack at Strategicwisdom dot substack dot com,
and to follow Strategic Wisdom on Twitter and Instagram at Stratwisdom.
Do support our work by buying from our merch store.
For more details, visit Strategic Wisdom dot substack dot com.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Thank you so much, Gabby, and thank you so much.
Ian ladies and gentlemen. This is your host, Andrew Jose
signing off
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