June 21, 2024 • 45 mins
Hello listeners! Welcome back to another episode of Strength in Recovery. Today, we have a unique treat for you. To celebrate last weekend's Father's Day holiday, we decided to take a walk down memory lane and revisit an episode from last year that touched the hearts of many of our listeners. Cliff, a RCA Capital Region Alum, sat down with Jaye and Senior Alumni Coordinator Loreal Hamilton to talk about his journey to recovery, and how his role as a parent plays a huge role in his motivation to stay sober.
Whether you are a father, have a father, or know a father, this episode is filled with moments that will resonate with you. Join us as we honor fathers everywhere with this touching rewind to last year's Father's Day special. We hope you enjoy.
*The views and opinions expressed by the guests of this podcast should not be considered medical or treatment advice. Need treatment? Call 1-833-RCAALUM today. Looking for support? Visit www.rcaalumni.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello listeners, welcome to the Strength and Recovery podcast where we dive into stories
(00:06):
of experience, strength, and hope in recovery.
Today we have a unique treat for you.
To celebrate last weekend's Father's Day holiday, we decided to take a walk down memory
lane and revisit an episode from last year that touched the hearts of many of our listeners.
Cliff, a Capital Region alum, sat down with me and Senior Alumni Coordinator, L'Oreal
(00:31):
Hamilton to talk about his journey to recovery and how his role as a parent plays a huge
part in his motivation to stay sober.
Join us today as we honor Father's Day everywhere with this touching rewind to last year's
Father's Day special.
We hope you enjoy.
(01:08):
Hello listeners, welcome to Strength and Recovery podcast.
I'm your host, Jay Rodenbush, Director of Alumni Engagement for Recovery Centers of
America.
We are at our Capital Region location outside of DC and I am with Cliff Johnson, he's an
alum of RCA and also with our amazing Senior Alumni Coordinator, L'Oreal.
(01:33):
We just wrapped up an alumni meeting here and we were just sitting talking about the
group tonight and just what support people get from tonight.
How has that been helpful to you, Cliff, as far as just coming back, being in the facility,
(01:54):
getting a community?
Yeah, the alumni group has been a huge help for me because it showed me when I was in
here that there was hope.
There were people who had left RCA and continue to come back Thursdays to share their experience
and strengthen hope.
So I knew after coming to my first meeting that I wanted to be one of those people to
(02:17):
share my experience.
So it's been a huge help to my recovery by just seeing others who walk the walk and not
only talk to talk but also walk the walk.
And L'Oreal, there's always coffee and donuts.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
Is that the key to a good meeting?
I think so and I think if I change it up, I'm doing it with this service.
(02:40):
I heard that tonight.
Somebody said, my Thursdays are very much about what did you say?
Alumni, L'Oreal and donuts.
In that order.
Yes.
And I think it's important for people to have, I've heard them say, I feel peace when
I walk in here and this is a place, one of the alums from Indianapolis say they would
(03:04):
just drive around the parking lot when they were struggling because it was a place where
they felt peaceful.
And so coming back to these facilities, being together, seeing patients here were allowed
to have patients come to the alumni meeting and I think that's so powerful just to have
that interaction.
And to see the patients tonight who, it was their first alumni meeting say, oh, I'm coming
(03:26):
back next week and they haven't been here very long, maybe seven days, maybe 14 days.
But to get that interaction, were you able to come as a patient to one of the alums?
My second week here, I was able to attend and yeah, that's where it all started.
That's where my passion to help others and share the message started.
(03:48):
Well, thank you so much for being here, for agreeing to talk to us tonight.
Would you mind just walking us through what led you to RCA?
I don't mind at all.
I started drinking at an early age, 14, and I never was the one that thought I had a problem.
(04:09):
I just liked to party, drink on the weekends, and I smoked weed a lot and I didn't think
that that was an issue either.
And starting around, probably around college time, my drinking progressed and I escalated
from beer to liquor and still didn't think I had an issue.
(04:30):
Then as I got older, I had lost both my parents in 2019 and my parents were both suffered
from addiction and I kind of think I picked up their habits after they passed.
So around 2020 was when things escalated and I drank a lot and also dabbled in other substances.
(04:55):
Then 2021, I went on this diet and I lost a lot of weight, 60 pounds and six months
to be exact.
And I thought that if I changed my drink from Bacardi and Coke to Patron, I would continue
to lose weight.
What I picked up when I started doing that was I started blacking out every time I drank
(05:15):
because I drank Patron on the rocks, no chaser, and then became the car wrecks.
I, January 2021, I had totaled one vehicle, hit somebody else in the car, and that was
March of that same year.
I got in another accident, totaled another car.
And then May of that year, I got a DUI, so that was three that I had within five months.
(05:42):
So you're dealing with loss of your parents.
COVID is happening, pandemic, the stress of that.
And now consequences are starting to hit.
Yes.
That's a lot at one time.
Yeah, it was.
And I never really dealt with grief at all.
When I lost my parents, I never shed a tear.
I never really thought about it.
(06:04):
I kind of just, life went on.
Before then, I had a lot of death in my family as well.
I lost a cousin of mine who was like a brother to me early on, and I had a very good friend
of mine who was murdered.
I had another friend of mine commit suicide.
I had all these things that were happening that I never really dealt with because I didn't
know how.
It just, to me, it was like, okay, people die, life goes on.
(06:25):
So when my parents died, I had that same mentality where it was like, people die, life moves
on.
But obviously that wasn't healthy because what I was doing is I was suppressing feelings
that I had by using alcohol and substances.
I think we underestimate the role of grief in a lot of mental health and addiction issues.
(06:46):
Absolutely.
And I think it's really easy to kind of throw that off.
Like you said, just put it off to the side and I'm dealing with it and it's part of life.
But we start medicating, or self-medicating in other ways just to deal with the cycle
(07:07):
of grief that we haven't been willing to deal with.
So things aren't going well.
Consequences are stacking up.
And when's the moment where you say, I need help?
I was sitting in my basement and I was on a four-day bender and it was Father's Day.
(07:34):
And my kids come into the room to bring me my Father's Day gift.
And I didn't know it was Father's Day.
And they open the door and I'm just immediately get angry because they're bursting in on me
and they're like, happy Father's Day.
And I sat there and it really hit me at that point.
It was like as I looked at them, next to them were five court papers that I had court appearances
(07:58):
for that were coming up.
And it really was like you need help.
And I didn't believe in therapy.
I didn't believe in treatment centers.
I didn't know where to go for help.
And my boss, who's also a good friend of mine, called me at the same moment after all this
happened.
(08:18):
He said, you should go to a treatment center.
And he actually said you should go to rehab is the word to use.
And immediately I hung up the phone on him and I yelled at my wife.
I said, why did you tell him I'm doing X?
And he said, she said, I didn't tell him anything.
And I said, why is he saying I should go to rehab?
She said, I don't know.
So I called my boss back up.
(08:39):
I said, how did you know I was doing this?
You know, why are you telling me to go to rehab?
He says, I was telling you to go to rehab for your drinking.
And he said, I didn't even think about that.
I didn't know that was on the radar.
So immediately I knew I said, OK, I need to go get help.
Because that was just it was God's way of showing me that I needed.
You said you didn't believe in rehab.
You didn't believe in therapy.
(09:00):
Where did that come from?
Probably early on, like in my household, like we just didn't tell people our problems.
We didn't talk about things that were bothering us.
You just, you know, especially as a man, you would, I thought that you should just bottle
it up and move on the best you could.
Kind of man up.
Yeah, exactly, man up.
(09:21):
That's how I was raised and thought I was taught to deal with things.
So I definitely didn't think a treatment center was going to help me.
I came here trying to lessen the jail sentence or get out of trouble, so to speak.
I definitely didn't think I was coming here to recover.
And so you, at that point, you say to your wife, how do you choose, how do you know who
(09:47):
to call?
The same boss who called me and told me I needed help.
He had already sent me a link to this location.
Wow.
And said, you know.
That's a good, you had a good boss.
Oh, he's a great friend.
He's a great friend, phenomenal boss.
He sent me a link to this place and said you should go check this out.
And just for someone in a position of leadership or authority to take that interest.
(10:09):
And to break down the stigma.
Yes.
Yeah.
Even with you, I mean, you're dealing with it.
That's just a, that's a real gift.
I called RCA that same day and they said, okay, we'll send somebody to come pick.
I said, no, no, no, I can't go right now.
Wait a minute.
Yeah.
We're quick on the draw.
We know that window of opportunity is pretty short.
(10:31):
Right.
I said, no, I can't go right now.
I said, and at the position, I was a director at my company.
So my role at my office is vital.
It was very critical.
There was no way I could go away for a month.
So I told the gentleman that I talked to on the phone.
I said, please, I just want to do a 14 days that he said, no, no, no, I think you should
do 30 days.
(10:51):
I said, well, I need at least two weeks so I can get my affairs in order with work.
No, no, no, we're going to come get you now.
I said, no, I have to wait at least a week.
So we negotiated on a week and he says, okay, the following Monday, I said, I agreed I would
bring myself in.
And my wife was very supportive.
She said, okay, I'll take you on a Monday.
(11:12):
And I remember I was so nervous.
I was just like still trying to get out of it.
Like, oh, you know what, maybe she did another week.
You know, let's wait another week.
And she said, no, you need to go now.
You know, so, so yeah, I came in and I remember pulling up in the driveway in the little circle
up here.
And I was very nervous because I don't know what I thought it was going to be like, but
I thought it, I in my mind, I thought it was going to be jail.
(11:35):
You know, and it was, I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't from the moment I walked in.
The staff greeted me at the door, very kind to me, gave me beautiful, comfortable pajamas
to wear.
And yeah, it was, that was the beginning of my experience.
I walked in the hallway and I saw the pictures of the celebrities that were that have been
(11:58):
recovered.
And the first thing I remember thinking, I was like, wow, I know that person.
I know this person.
And it was immediate fill of hope.
You know, I saw, Steve was the one that stuck out to me the most because I knew I had heard
his story and I had heard how his life got better.
You know, Robert DeNiro, I remember hearing his story and how he got all these great movie
(12:19):
deals when he got sober.
You know, so it was immediate feeling of hope that there's hope a better way.
I still didn't surrender.
I still didn't give myself the grace to know that this was going to work.
You know, but I knew that there was hope that there could be a better way.
So was there a moment, what did it come in this building or where that surrender happened?
(12:44):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Day three.
Day three from, yeah.
So the first day I came in, I stayed in my room a lot.
I didn't, I went to maybe two meetings that day.
And then the next morning I got, I went to bed so early because they made us go to sleep
at like nine, 10 o'clock.
So I woke up so early and they had 7 a.m. it wasn't Sunday service.
(13:06):
It was a morning service where it was just about meditation and mindfulness.
And Pastor Ken was the gentleman who led that.
And that was the beginning of my transformation.
I didn't know it at the time, but I remember vividly that he stated, you know, the way
that we speak in our day to day lives dictates how our day will go.
(13:28):
You know, if we go around using curse words and using language that is negative, we'll
have negativity in our life.
But if we speak with positivity and love and compassion, we'll have that kind of day.
That was the very first moment that I knew.
I was like, man, that's deep.
Like, let me try that.
Let me try to speak with love and compassion instead of maybe this therapy thing has a
(13:49):
shot.
Yeah, I wasn't, I was still wasn't there.
I just knew that guy.
I said, he has something.
He's onto something.
I still wasn't there to, you know, the thought of like therapy or someone else helping me
change my life.
But I knew that that moment of him saying, what you put out, you will get back in return.
You know, so that was, that was day one.
(14:09):
And then I went to meetings all day that day.
And I met Tim, a great guy who was very passionate about what he does and spoke a lot of truth.
And he almost knew my story, you know.
And then was Tammy, who's amazing.
And you know, her story was very passionate as well.
And then John, I can go on and on.
(14:31):
There's so many great people at this facility that have changed my life.
I think what, what I hear you saying is you were hearing people's experience.
Yes.
And they had been in your shoes.
Yes.
Yes.
And that was, okay, there's something here.
Yeah.
That was the beginning for me with the moment that it actually changed was that I remember
(14:52):
I was in a group session with Tammy and she described it as an allergy.
She said, I have an allergy, you know, and that if as long as I put any substance in
my body, I would activate that allergy.
I would trigger that allergy.
She started throwing some big book at you.
Oh, it was amazing.
Yes.
It was amazing because that's that I could identify with, you know.
(15:13):
Again, because I didn't think I had a problem, you know, I never identified as one who had
a problem.
I was in an alcoholic with someone who sat outside the liquor store and waited for it
to open.
I didn't drink every day.
I just drank on the weekends.
I'm just partying.
I'm having a good time, you know, I'm not the, the, what I thought was a person who
was an alcoholic or an addict.
But when she mentioned that, you know, you have this allergy and as soon as you put
(15:36):
any substance in your body, it triggers the body's cravings and the mind will tell you
anything to get more.
And I knew that I said, you know what, that's me because I had been to happy hours and I
had two drinks because I was around coworkers.
But immediately after I left that happy hour, I'd have to go to another bar, you know.
So it was never a moment where I could just socially drink and be okay, you know.
(15:59):
So that after that meeting, I went into my room and I remember really thinking and I
wrote down a lot of situations that had happened in my life, mistakes that I had made because
of drinking and really looking at people I had hurt also, you know, because I remember
telling my wife many times that I'm not hurting anybody, I'm just hurting myself, you know.
(16:21):
Like that was always my excuse.
I always had so many dumb excuses that this is why it's okay, you know.
But that night when I got pinned to paper and I started thinking about, you know, the
people who I'd actually hurt because of my drinking and using, that's when things really,
I like to call them aha moments.
That's when the aha moment went off for me.
(16:43):
So I knew I needed to find a new way to live and a better way of life.
So Loria, when's the first time you remember seeing Cliff?
I remember when he came to the inpatient, when he was inpatient, he came to the alumni
meeting.
He was like, this is nice.
And then like, I like it.
And then I want to say, if it wasn't your first week you came back, it was like, if he's
(17:03):
not coming back, if he's not going to make it, he'll let me know.
And I like that communication.
It's like, I'm going out of town this week.
I won't be there, but I'll see you next week.
And I love how he takes the newcomer in and gives him that message.
So from when he was inpatient to it'll be a year next month.
And it's been a journey that I just seen him grow as an alumni and bringing a newcomer back
(17:27):
and just talking and keeping that message going.
Because he started off with a group of 20.
And I've seen him dendled out.
I watch him lose friends.
You went through that tonight just really in a poignant way, like to try to, you know,
you're talking to people who are going through this now and you're in a treatment facility.
(17:49):
You kind of build a bond with other people that you're here with.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Absolutely.
And how that does change somewhat.
Yeah.
When I left here, July 10th, 2022, I left with 20 phone numbers, 20 good friends who
I call brothers.
(18:11):
We had a group text.
We talked every morning.
We ended the night with I love you.
I mean, it was like things I'd never say to another man, you know, that's the kind of
relationship we had.
And then after the first week, we lost probably three and then we lost five and then we lost
10.
And it just dwindled away.
And sometimes it's due to substance.
Sometimes it's due to life.
Sometimes it's...
Oh, yeah, yeah.
(18:31):
I know that everyone is back out.
I just know that the communication was lost.
And that's something...
Any relationship, when you lose someone who you love and care about and they no longer
speak to you, it hurts.
So that was a moment that I had to really put in check and I had to talk to my sponsor
(18:53):
about, hey, this is happening and it's affecting me.
I'm having a feeling about this.
And you had that support system.
Yes.
So it feels like it's dwindling.
Yes.
Yes.
You're going through loss and grief again.
Yes.
And you got to deal with that.
Yeah.
It's a feeling for sure that is uncomfortable, you know.
And you said tonight, I heard you say, you've got to find new people.
(19:18):
Yes.
You can't just let that dwindle.
You have to replace.
Yes.
Yeah.
You have to find people who are not using and who have found a new way of life.
That is param...
And for me, it's important for my recovery because the support system is a huge part
of my recovery and that's what we have here at alumni.
I met a new group of friends through the alumni who come every Thursday.
(19:42):
And if they don't come on Thursdays, like L'Oreal said, we reach out and say, hey, I
can't make it this week.
It's just a family.
It becomes a family.
So for me, I look forward to that.
And how important is it to have, yes, you've got the people that are at the same level
as you, right?
How important is it to also have some support from people who are at further along in their
(20:05):
journey?
Yes.
Maybe, okay, I've got somebody who's at the same point, you know, our spryty dates are
similar or...
But I also am looking for people who maybe have a year, maybe have 10 years, even the
people that got 25 years.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I will say this.
When I first started going to meetings outside of RCA, that was intimidating, you know, to
(20:31):
hear people that have 25 years.
Because here I am, I couldn't get 25 days before, and I'm in a room full of people
who have 25, 30 years clean.
So it was very intimidating to think that they could relate to my story.
I didn't think they understood what I had been through.
What I learned by going to meetings and listening is that you start to learn to identify in.
(20:55):
I identify with what they have been through.
Because those people, even with the long clean time, they're still only one arm's length
away from picking up.
So it's very important that you listen to what they're doing today to stay clean.
And the fact that they're still going to meetings after 25, 30 years, you know, it speaks volume.
(21:16):
That's why they're going because people like me who just come in, they give them hope.
I give them hope, you know.
That's how it works.
It's a, the program is all about giving back what was so freely given to me, you know.
And I said that tonight as well, because it is very important for me to make sure that
I'm sharing my experience.
Because it does.
It reminds me of where I was and where I came from.
(21:38):
So I think it's beautiful.
And to watch you tonight, it wasn't even just the meeting.
I mean, you show leadership there, but I think the meeting after the meeting, right?
Yes.
Yes.
It's my favorite part.
Talk to me a little bit about the meeting after the meeting.
Yeah.
So I just, I tell the guys, the new guys, you know, what happened to me when I got out of
(22:00):
here.
I recommend to everyone 90 and 90, going to 90 meetings and 90 days.
Very important.
And making sure that they get numbers, as many numbers as possible, and I make sure I
share my number, you know, because I will be that person that you can reach out to.
If you need anything at all to find a meeting.
When I left RCA, it was very hard for me to find a meeting.
They mentioned that it's meetings everywhere.
(22:21):
You can find a meeting anywhere.
The very first three meetings I looked up, they were closed buildings.
And now, yeah, that was, that was tough.
I will not forget that.
So that helps me with the newcomer because I went to two churches and one building.
They were all closed the first day I got out of here.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
So that was, that was discouraging because then it becomes a mindset of like, well, you
(22:42):
know, they said they were everywhere.
Yeah, exactly.
They said this is everywhere and they're nowhere.
And you know, maybe I just, I won't waste my time, you know, like you start to have
those thoughts.
But then, you know, and then I tried to zoom thing.
And for me, zoom didn't work because I didn't get, it wasn't personal enough, you know.
There were thousands of people on zoom and it was like, no, this is not at all what I
(23:04):
thought it would be.
But you know, they also tell you, you know, you don't stop there.
You keep going, you know.
Keep coming back.
Right.
And then you keep coming back.
It's very important.
So I, I, I did, I, I looked at meetings in other areas, you know, and so my journey started,
you know, day two, I went to two meetings the next day and then I just continued to go to
(23:26):
meet.
When I went to that one meeting, I got a pamphlet that had a list of meetings to go to.
So I just kept going to different meetings.
And they have kind of different personalities.
Absolutely.
Different groups and it's kind of, you got to try it on, right?
Yes.
100%.
It's, you know, it's like dating.
You know, you got to keep going out there and trying until you find your match, you
know, what speaks to you.
(23:46):
And going to the same meeting that you didn't care for once, it may be different the next
time based on the speaker or just, you know, I always say, don't make a judgment about
a meeting based on your first.
No.
Go around.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
You keep trying definitely.
And if, if the meeting was, you know, I went to a meeting early on where it was just me
(24:08):
and two other people.
And that was, I was like, oh gosh, you know.
And then I went back the next week and it was still those same two people.
So I was like, what are we going to talk about?
You know, like we, I heard everything last week, you know, but what happens to me, and
this is the God of my understanding, he always puts me in the right place to hear what I
need to hear, you know, because I met those two guys and I won't forget this either.
(24:31):
He didn't share the first time.
He just kind of listened the next time he shared.
He shared my exact story.
Wow.
You know, and that, that's what I knew.
I said, okay, I'm in the right place, you know.
But I didn't, I didn't go back to that meeting after that because again, I wanted to branch
out and find more meetings.
So yeah, I would just tell anybody who's new to just keep going, definitely keep coming
(24:54):
back and until you find your niche, your group of people that you know, you can relate to.
Yeah.
So.
Let's go back if you don't mind.
You're 14.
I'm a parent of teenage kids.
You know, and we always think we would know what's going on or we would, we would be able
(25:17):
to intervene or what was going on with you at 14.
I was trying to fit in, you know, but I didn't know then that I do know now is that early
on I had this need to, to fit in, you know, I grew up in Washington, DC.
And I was, I got picked on because I was a slight skin and then I moved to Virginia when
(25:42):
I was 14.
And then I got picked on because I was dark skin, you know, it was just that kind of thing.
So I always never really fit in.
And when I started smoking weed and drinking, you know, I felt like I fit in.
You had a crowd.
I had a crowd.
I had a family, so to speak, you know.
And I just wanted to be a part of something, you know, and I thought that that made me the
(26:04):
life of the party.
I always, I was always known for being wild.
I was always known for being fun.
So I had a place.
I had, I felt like I had a purpose.
So that became your identity.
Yes.
Pretty quickly.
I mean, or was this, you were just doing this on the weekends at 14 or, you know, how quickly
did that kind of consume you?
No, no, no, it was just on the weekends, but it still, it was, it was definitely a habit,
(26:28):
even though it was only on the weekends because I played sports.
I was pretty good at school, meaning grade wise, and then, but on the weekends, we would
get wild.
And that's how my life, you know, even it just hit me just now saying it, that's how
my life went, you know, because at 14, it was just on the weekends and then it just
kept going.
All I would work from school, then it went to work.
(26:49):
So I would work and I would be very passionate about my job.
And then on the weekends, I would go crazy, you know, it was, that's how I lived my life.
And you were able to manage for a while.
Yes.
Yes.
I, work wise and family wise, I felt like I was able to manage up until now, you know,
it was the police that didn't, that I didn't manage well.
(27:09):
But no, I, yeah, I was able to manage.
I always had a job, I always had a house, I had a car.
So I thought my life was manageable.
And your parent today, what are you, and genetics plays a role, right?
And you said your parents.
Alcoholics.
Alcoholics, androide, addicts.
(27:32):
And so you've kind of got that, how are you parenting differently?
The beauty that I think is that first of all, I am present today, you know, I have always
been a provider, but I wasn't present.
Oh, that's, you know, it's really beautiful.
Yeah.
So I'm present today.
That's the beauty that I have found in recovery.
(27:54):
And I think the other thing is my kids, my kids are older now, I have a 21 year old down
to a 12 year old, you know, and four children, by the way.
Wow.
Yes.
So the beauty I think is that, you know, my kids have seen the beds out of me as well.
They've seen me drunk and they've seen me act a fool, you know, and at the time I think
(28:15):
they probably thought I was the fun dad, but they now see the recovery process, you know,
so that's, I'm very grateful today that they get to see that part because they see the
work that I put in.
They see the changes I'm making and I want them to know that, you know, my 21 year old
in college and she may be drinking, I know she's drinking, you know, and if things do
(28:38):
get out of hand that she knows that there is a program and there is help and hope, you
know, again, because it goes back to me not knowing that there was help or hope.
How transparent are you with your older children?
They're very transparent.
They know everything about my addiction.
They know about my alcohol abuse.
My kids, unfortunately, were there when I got my third DUI, you know.
(29:02):
We were in Ocean City and I was driving and I had checked them into a hotel room and I
was doing some work at a restaurant.
And after work, the owner of the business asked me if I wanted to have some drinks.
I said yes.
And then I drove home and I got a DUI.
They locked me up.
I was on my way to pick my children up to go have dinner.
(29:23):
My children had to stay in that hotel room, couldn't get in contact with me, didn't know
what was going on.
Yeah.
And they, unfortunately, you know, then they start calling my wife, hey, he was supposed
to be here hours ago.
We don't know what happened.
So they had to know what happened, you know.
So very, very transparent into what had happened.
(29:43):
And I explained to them after I left RCA, I said, listen, this is what I didn't know.
I didn't realize that I had an allergy.
I didn't realize that I was an addict, you know.
And this is how I've learned and this is what I'm doing to grow from it.
So I want them to understand the triggers and the things that we suppress feelings by
trying to numb out with alcohol and substances.
(30:05):
So I definitely don't want them to make the same mistakes I made.
And how do you talk to them about therapy, about stigma?
So two of my children, my daughters are both in therapy right now because I want them to
understand that they actually chose to go to therapy without me.
They already have no problem needing to communicate with someone else.
(30:28):
I think we're doing better.
Like this generation is very open to their feeling.
They want that, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
My kids are so much smarter than I ever was.
They're great.
They, yeah.
So I didn't need to tell them about therapy.
What I needed to do is I needed to be honest about that it's okay, you know, to ask for
(30:50):
help, you know, to sit down and say something's not right.
And if you could help me, I'd love to tell you about it.
So that's what they, that's what I'm here now, again, going back to being present.
I'm here now for them to open up and talk to if they ever have anything that needs to
be communicated.
That's great.
Thank you.
(31:10):
That's really great.
So I'm starting the family's recovery or reality.
I want to talk to a little bit about that.
Just how the families, it's not just your recovery, right?
There's a recovery process that the family does.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because once, once a person goes to treatment, I think they go home thinking everything is
(31:32):
going to go back to what they could assume normal.
And the family has a whole process of healing.
I know it takes, you know, a family a while to do it, so I always say family therapy or
how involved you're, you know, you want to be with their significant other if they go
through that.
But you have to think about your family as PTSD that, you know, you're getting in the
(31:52):
car.
It took me a while to just trust, you know, my mom said I'm going to the store when she
moved in with me.
It's like, I'll take you.
It took years to understand, like, we have to get our guard down, you know, our triggers
as well.
And you know, it's like, you people say, oh, no, I'm fine.
I believe I'm good, but the family still has to unpack their trauma.
(32:12):
And that's the stuff that people doesn't look like someone, one person recover, no, the
whole family recover.
So taking that little step and being transparent, which I think is great with your children,
because I don't say that earlier they know, but the sooner they can understand because
it's so much stuff they got to unpack as well, you know, what's going on in life.
(32:32):
So I think the family getting them involved and being honest with them is the best thing
anyone in recovery can do because they can learn so much with Al-Anon and just even support
groups period.
So I definitely think getting the family piece brings it full circle.
I think there's a tendency to when somebody's going through that to sweep it under the rug
(32:58):
or don't let anybody especially.
I think, you know, different families choose different paths, but I think there's a fair
amount of people who we better not talk about this to the kids.
Yeah.
And they talk about that in meetings.
There's a saying that if you, what you don't let off your chest, you'll carry on your back.
(33:19):
You know, so if I, if I choose to sweep it under the rug and not discuss it, what I'm
doing is I'm holding in guilt and I'm holding in resentments with them could lead me to
using again, you know.
I think when we understand the disease better, we understand this isn't just a moral issue.
(33:39):
There are genetics involved and, and letting children of alcoholics and addicts know, hey,
this runs in your bloodline too.
And when we have to discuss it openly as a family because it could be something you're
up against or your children are up against, I think becomes a very powerful message and
(34:01):
really helps when we understand it to reduce that stigma piece.
Going back to what I was saying, that's the biggest part for me is like, I never knew
how to admit that I had a problem, right?
And a lot of people believe that you shouldn't talk about, you know, being in recovery or
the program that you're in.
(34:21):
I disagree with that though, because by me sharing my experience, you know, I, you never
know who you're helping, you know, and that's once you understand that, you know, I am an
addict and like you mentioned, you know, educating myself about the disease I have,
you know, once I know what's wrong, I know how to fix it.
You can't diagnose a problem that you don't know what's wrong.
(34:43):
Yeah.
Once you understand and you have a little education, that's a tool that you can use.
I think one of my favorite things about the treatment setting is just the opportunity to
get that psycho education.
Like to learn about the brain, to learn about the disease model, to learn all the stuff
that goes along with it, that it's not just, you know, this big moral failing, you know,
(35:09):
or my personality, but there's this medical piece.
There's science behind it.
There's science.
Yes.
I see that you have on an N.A. shirt.
When you first left Recurve Center of America, would you wear one proudly then or did it take
courage?
No, I didn't.
It's a great question.
I did not.
I wouldn't wear an N.A. shirt.
(35:30):
I wouldn't wear an N.A. chain, which I also have on.
I wouldn't tell anybody I was in recovery.
I think for me it was more knowing, because when I got out and the few friends that I
had that knew that I went to treatment, I started getting phone calls and saying, hey,
I think I have a problem too and I want to get help.
So once I posted, I think I posted my three month chip and I started getting phone calls.
(35:56):
I said, you know what, this is not something I want to hide anymore.
I could help more people by sharing the message rather than, and I think I shared this to
you as well.
You know, my brother-in-law, when I got out, I immediately called him as soon as the day
I got out and I was like, man, we got this allergy.
This is this thing.
(36:16):
There's a whole science behind it.
And my brother's clean now.
So that was, I immediately saw the benefit of what I got from RCA, the message, because
there's people that don't know, just like I didn't know.
So yeah, I wear it proudly today because you never know who you can help.
(36:39):
So and you said you have a real connection to Father's Day.
Yes.
Tell us about that.
Yeah, absolutely.
My clean date is June 20th.
So June 19th last year was Father's Day and that was the last time I used.
So very gut-riching moment for me because it was my kids' first time seeing me, you
(37:05):
know, really in that setting of darkness, depression.
And, you know, I had had drinks around them before, but they'd never seen me in that
dark moment.
And that was definitely a motivation for me to come to RCA because, yeah, I always told
myself I was okay because they didn't know.
You know, that was one of the things that I prodded myself on that, you know, you're
(37:29):
okay, nobody knows what you're doing.
It's a secret, you know.
And then just like they tell you, it's a progressive disease.
It progressively gets worse.
And here I am now in my house with my kids' home, you know, and they're seeing it firsthand.
So that was definitely a moment that I was ashamed of, you know.
And if someone would have told you in that moment a year from now, you'd be sitting
(37:52):
in this chair.
I would have told them they were crazy.
Again, I did not come here to recover, you know.
I came here to stay out of jail.
But I'm thankful that I did hear the message.
I'm really thankful that my God of my understanding gave me the willingness and the open mind
to hear what they were teaching, you know, because that ultimately would lead to me putting
(38:18):
in the action.
And what's life like now?
Amazing.
Amazing.
My wife and I are very happy.
Again, I spend lots of time with my kids.
The biggest thing I want to touch on though for anyone who is listening who may be struggling
with giving up their lifestyle, because that was a big part for me, is that I glamorized
(38:41):
my lifestyle that I lived, you know.
I thought there was no way I could go to football games and not drink.
I could have a birthday without drinking.
How would I live?
What would be fun, you know?
I remember thinking of myself in that room by myself saying, when somebody asks you,
what's your hobby?
What are you going to say besides drinking?
(39:02):
Because I didn't have a hobby besides drinking, you know.
That was my pastime.
That was what was fun to me.
Today I have plenty hobbies.
One of the first things I did when I got out of here was I went home and tied I'd T-shirts
and socks with my kids because I learned that in here.
So you're the tied I guy.
I just made that connection.
Yes.
(39:22):
Lori has been telling me somebody comes back and helps her tie dye.
I mean, all due respect, you don't look like the tied I guy.
No, before this place I wouldn't have tied I'd anything.
And I also wouldn't have done crossword puzzles or I wouldn't have done puzzles at all or
games, you know.
But those are the things I learned in here.
They have a class that they call fun and recovery, you know.
(39:43):
And that's where I learned those things.
I learned healthy habits, you know, things that my kids love.
And it is.
It really is about finding healthy habits, finding things that I can do that don't involve
drinking and don't involve using, you know.
So those are the things I enjoy today.
So back to your question about what's my life like today.
(40:05):
I go to football games and I make mocktails, you know.
I make good drinks with soda water and guava juice that everybody loves, you know.
I have a group of friends.
You're still the life of the party.
Oh, I am.
I am.
Even more so, I think.
Because now, you know what, I wake up and I don't have a hangover.
I remember everything that happened, you know.
(40:26):
It doesn't rob your personality.
I think that's a fear, right?
Like that I'm not going to be myself or I'm going to be boring.
And you're more yourself.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I'm really myself now, you know.
Because another thing I didn't realize I had a good friend of mine who I thought was a
friend of mine and through my drinking days and she told me sober, she said, oh, I hated
(40:49):
you.
You know, she said, every time I saw you, you would get drunk and you were loud and obnoxious.
I said, really?
I thought you loved me.
But yeah, no, it's, you know, I don't have to apologize for anything today.
You know, life is good today.
You're authentic today.
Yes.
Yes, very authentic.
(41:09):
We usually end with favorite recovery quote.
Do you have one?
Yes, I have many, but I think the one that sticks out to me today, don't use no matter
what.
Because that is something that people don't really adhere to, you know.
(41:32):
Things get better.
You know, I used to think that in this moment, things are very grim and bad.
And you know, one person shared in a meeting that I went to that the temporary pleasure
that you will get from using, you don't give yourself a chance to know that the pleasure
is so much greater saying no.
(41:52):
You know, so you may get a brief moment of happiness from drinking on a bad day.
But when you say no to that drink, it's a whole week of pleasure, you know.
And he's right.
That's one of the things that sticks with me today.
And that healthy pride that says I'm doing this.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that self-respect that comes from.
(42:13):
Yeah.
I feel strong today.
I feel very strong today.
One day at a time.
The other thing that I didn't know was there's so many more things that I'm addicted to
other than drugs and alcohol, you know.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
You really have to get to the root of it, right, because that's what the 12 Steps offers
me.
(42:33):
It offers me freedom from addiction, any addiction, you know, as long as I follow the steps.
I truly believe this, that if the world had a 12 Step program, we would live in a better
world today.
I agree.
Thank you.
Completely.
Advice to dads?
My advice would be give yourself a chance and be the person that you want to be for
(42:58):
your children.
I think we all, all fathers have an inner feeling that they want their children to be proud of
them.
And if you give yourself a chance without doing drugs or alcohol, I think that that can
be a reality for you.
That's awesome.
Thank you both so much, Lorie Alcliff, for being with us today, for your work with our
(43:19):
alumni.
You're really making a difference and appreciate the sacrifices you make to be a leader in
this community, Cliff.
And if you or someone you know needs help today, you can call us at 1-833-RCA-ALUM-ALUM.
And there are members of our mission center team standing by, ready to help you, ready
(43:45):
to get you transportation and get you into treatment and get help.
I'd also like to say, if you have questions for the podcast, you can go to our Instagram
page, Strength and Recovery.
We would love to answer some of your questions from a panel, so please shoot us some questions.
I'm going to be working on some projects later.
(44:07):
If you have ideas for the podcast, shoot over to our Instagram page and say hello.
Have a great day and look forward to being with you again soon.
Thank you for listening to the Strength and Recovery podcast.
(44:30):
If you enjoyed this episode, please tap the subscribe button and leave us a review.
We love hearing from our listeners and hope to reach more of you out there as we continue
to share these incredible stories of recovery.
The RCA alumni team aims to provide a safe, supportive environment for those in the recovery
community regardless of their affiliation with RCA.
(44:55):
We host a full calendar of virtual and in-person meetings as well as free sober events every
month.
To learn more about what we do, find us at rcaalumni.com.
Remember, if you or a loved one is struggling with addiction, pick up the phone and dial
1-833-RCA-ALUMN.
(45:17):
Help is available 24-7.
Listen to another episode now or join us next time for the Strength and Recovery podcast.
Hello listeners, welcome to the Strength and Recovery podcast where we dive into stories
(00:06):
of experience, strength, and hope in recovery.
Today we have a unique treat for you.
To celebrate last weekend's Father's Day holiday, we decided to take a walk down memory
lane and revisit an episode from last year that touched the hearts of many of our listeners.
Cliff, a Capital Region alum, sat down with me and Senior Alumni Coordinator, L'Oreal
(00:31):
Hamilton to talk about his journey to recovery and how his role as a parent plays a huge
part in his motivation to stay sober.
Join us today as we honor Father's Day everywhere with this touching rewind to last year's
Father's Day special.
We hope you enjoy.
(01:08):
Hello listeners, welcome to Strength and Recovery podcast.
I'm your host, Jay Rodenbush, Director of Alumni Engagement for Recovery Centers of
America.
We are at our Capital Region location outside of DC and I am with Cliff Johnson, he's an
alum of RCA and also with our amazing Senior Alumni Coordinator, L'Oreal.
(01:33):
We just wrapped up an alumni meeting here and we were just sitting talking about the
group tonight and just what support people get from tonight.
How has that been helpful to you, Cliff, as far as just coming back, being in the facility,
(01:54):
getting a community?
Yeah, the alumni group has been a huge help for me because it showed me when I was in
here that there was hope.
There were people who had left RCA and continue to come back Thursdays to share their experience
and strengthen hope.
So I knew after coming to my first meeting that I wanted to be one of those people to
(02:17):
share my experience.
So it's been a huge help to my recovery by just seeing others who walk the walk and not
only talk to talk but also walk the walk.
And L'Oreal, there's always coffee and donuts.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
Is that the key to a good meeting?
I think so and I think if I change it up, I'm doing it with this service.
(02:40):
I heard that tonight.
Somebody said, my Thursdays are very much about what did you say?
Alumni, L'Oreal and donuts.
In that order.
Yes.
And I think it's important for people to have, I've heard them say, I feel peace when
I walk in here and this is a place, one of the alums from Indianapolis say they would
(03:04):
just drive around the parking lot when they were struggling because it was a place where
they felt peaceful.
And so coming back to these facilities, being together, seeing patients here were allowed
to have patients come to the alumni meeting and I think that's so powerful just to have
that interaction.
And to see the patients tonight who, it was their first alumni meeting say, oh, I'm coming
(03:26):
back next week and they haven't been here very long, maybe seven days, maybe 14 days.
But to get that interaction, were you able to come as a patient to one of the alums?
My second week here, I was able to attend and yeah, that's where it all started.
That's where my passion to help others and share the message started.
(03:48):
Well, thank you so much for being here, for agreeing to talk to us tonight.
Would you mind just walking us through what led you to RCA?
I don't mind at all.
I started drinking at an early age, 14, and I never was the one that thought I had a problem.
(04:09):
I just liked to party, drink on the weekends, and I smoked weed a lot and I didn't think
that that was an issue either.
And starting around, probably around college time, my drinking progressed and I escalated
from beer to liquor and still didn't think I had an issue.
(04:30):
Then as I got older, I had lost both my parents in 2019 and my parents were both suffered
from addiction and I kind of think I picked up their habits after they passed.
So around 2020 was when things escalated and I drank a lot and also dabbled in other substances.
(04:55):
Then 2021, I went on this diet and I lost a lot of weight, 60 pounds and six months
to be exact.
And I thought that if I changed my drink from Bacardi and Coke to Patron, I would continue
to lose weight.
What I picked up when I started doing that was I started blacking out every time I drank
(05:15):
because I drank Patron on the rocks, no chaser, and then became the car wrecks.
I, January 2021, I had totaled one vehicle, hit somebody else in the car, and that was
March of that same year.
I got in another accident, totaled another car.
And then May of that year, I got a DUI, so that was three that I had within five months.
(05:42):
So you're dealing with loss of your parents.
COVID is happening, pandemic, the stress of that.
And now consequences are starting to hit.
Yes.
That's a lot at one time.
Yeah, it was.
And I never really dealt with grief at all.
When I lost my parents, I never shed a tear.
I never really thought about it.
(06:04):
I kind of just, life went on.
Before then, I had a lot of death in my family as well.
I lost a cousin of mine who was like a brother to me early on, and I had a very good friend
of mine who was murdered.
I had another friend of mine commit suicide.
I had all these things that were happening that I never really dealt with because I didn't
know how.
It just, to me, it was like, okay, people die, life goes on.
(06:25):
So when my parents died, I had that same mentality where it was like, people die, life moves
on.
But obviously that wasn't healthy because what I was doing is I was suppressing feelings
that I had by using alcohol and substances.
I think we underestimate the role of grief in a lot of mental health and addiction issues.
(06:46):
Absolutely.
And I think it's really easy to kind of throw that off.
Like you said, just put it off to the side and I'm dealing with it and it's part of life.
But we start medicating, or self-medicating in other ways just to deal with the cycle
(07:07):
of grief that we haven't been willing to deal with.
So things aren't going well.
Consequences are stacking up.
And when's the moment where you say, I need help?
I was sitting in my basement and I was on a four-day bender and it was Father's Day.
(07:34):
And my kids come into the room to bring me my Father's Day gift.
And I didn't know it was Father's Day.
And they open the door and I'm just immediately get angry because they're bursting in on me
and they're like, happy Father's Day.
And I sat there and it really hit me at that point.
It was like as I looked at them, next to them were five court papers that I had court appearances
(07:58):
for that were coming up.
And it really was like you need help.
And I didn't believe in therapy.
I didn't believe in treatment centers.
I didn't know where to go for help.
And my boss, who's also a good friend of mine, called me at the same moment after all this
happened.
(08:18):
He said, you should go to a treatment center.
And he actually said you should go to rehab is the word to use.
And immediately I hung up the phone on him and I yelled at my wife.
I said, why did you tell him I'm doing X?
And he said, she said, I didn't tell him anything.
And I said, why is he saying I should go to rehab?
She said, I don't know.
So I called my boss back up.
(08:39):
I said, how did you know I was doing this?
You know, why are you telling me to go to rehab?
He says, I was telling you to go to rehab for your drinking.
And he said, I didn't even think about that.
I didn't know that was on the radar.
So immediately I knew I said, OK, I need to go get help.
Because that was just it was God's way of showing me that I needed.
You said you didn't believe in rehab.
You didn't believe in therapy.
(09:00):
Where did that come from?
Probably early on, like in my household, like we just didn't tell people our problems.
We didn't talk about things that were bothering us.
You just, you know, especially as a man, you would, I thought that you should just bottle
it up and move on the best you could.
Kind of man up.
Yeah, exactly, man up.
(09:21):
That's how I was raised and thought I was taught to deal with things.
So I definitely didn't think a treatment center was going to help me.
I came here trying to lessen the jail sentence or get out of trouble, so to speak.
I definitely didn't think I was coming here to recover.
And so you, at that point, you say to your wife, how do you choose, how do you know who
(09:47):
to call?
The same boss who called me and told me I needed help.
He had already sent me a link to this location.
Wow.
And said, you know.
That's a good, you had a good boss.
Oh, he's a great friend.
He's a great friend, phenomenal boss.
He sent me a link to this place and said you should go check this out.
And just for someone in a position of leadership or authority to take that interest.
(10:09):
And to break down the stigma.
Yes.
Yeah.
Even with you, I mean, you're dealing with it.
That's just a, that's a real gift.
I called RCA that same day and they said, okay, we'll send somebody to come pick.
I said, no, no, no, I can't go right now.
Wait a minute.
Yeah.
We're quick on the draw.
We know that window of opportunity is pretty short.
(10:31):
Right.
I said, no, I can't go right now.
I said, and at the position, I was a director at my company.
So my role at my office is vital.
It was very critical.
There was no way I could go away for a month.
So I told the gentleman that I talked to on the phone.
I said, please, I just want to do a 14 days that he said, no, no, no, I think you should
do 30 days.
(10:51):
I said, well, I need at least two weeks so I can get my affairs in order with work.
No, no, no, we're going to come get you now.
I said, no, I have to wait at least a week.
So we negotiated on a week and he says, okay, the following Monday, I said, I agreed I would
bring myself in.
And my wife was very supportive.
She said, okay, I'll take you on a Monday.
(11:12):
And I remember I was so nervous.
I was just like still trying to get out of it.
Like, oh, you know what, maybe she did another week.
You know, let's wait another week.
And she said, no, you need to go now.
You know, so, so yeah, I came in and I remember pulling up in the driveway in the little circle
up here.
And I was very nervous because I don't know what I thought it was going to be like, but
I thought it, I in my mind, I thought it was going to be jail.
(11:35):
You know, and it was, I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't from the moment I walked in.
The staff greeted me at the door, very kind to me, gave me beautiful, comfortable pajamas
to wear.
And yeah, it was, that was the beginning of my experience.
I walked in the hallway and I saw the pictures of the celebrities that were that have been
(11:58):
recovered.
And the first thing I remember thinking, I was like, wow, I know that person.
I know this person.
And it was immediate fill of hope.
You know, I saw, Steve was the one that stuck out to me the most because I knew I had heard
his story and I had heard how his life got better.
You know, Robert DeNiro, I remember hearing his story and how he got all these great movie
(12:19):
deals when he got sober.
You know, so it was immediate feeling of hope that there's hope a better way.
I still didn't surrender.
I still didn't give myself the grace to know that this was going to work.
You know, but I knew that there was hope that there could be a better way.
So was there a moment, what did it come in this building or where that surrender happened?
(12:44):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Day three.
Day three from, yeah.
So the first day I came in, I stayed in my room a lot.
I didn't, I went to maybe two meetings that day.
And then the next morning I got, I went to bed so early because they made us go to sleep
at like nine, 10 o'clock.
So I woke up so early and they had 7 a.m. it wasn't Sunday service.
(13:06):
It was a morning service where it was just about meditation and mindfulness.
And Pastor Ken was the gentleman who led that.
And that was the beginning of my transformation.
I didn't know it at the time, but I remember vividly that he stated, you know, the way
that we speak in our day to day lives dictates how our day will go.
(13:28):
You know, if we go around using curse words and using language that is negative, we'll
have negativity in our life.
But if we speak with positivity and love and compassion, we'll have that kind of day.
That was the very first moment that I knew.
I was like, man, that's deep.
Like, let me try that.
Let me try to speak with love and compassion instead of maybe this therapy thing has a
(13:49):
shot.
Yeah, I wasn't, I was still wasn't there.
I just knew that guy.
I said, he has something.
He's onto something.
I still wasn't there to, you know, the thought of like therapy or someone else helping me
change my life.
But I knew that that moment of him saying, what you put out, you will get back in return.
You know, so that was, that was day one.
(14:09):
And then I went to meetings all day that day.
And I met Tim, a great guy who was very passionate about what he does and spoke a lot of truth.
And he almost knew my story, you know.
And then was Tammy, who's amazing.
And you know, her story was very passionate as well.
And then John, I can go on and on.
(14:31):
There's so many great people at this facility that have changed my life.
I think what, what I hear you saying is you were hearing people's experience.
Yes.
And they had been in your shoes.
Yes.
Yes.
And that was, okay, there's something here.
Yeah.
That was the beginning for me with the moment that it actually changed was that I remember
(14:52):
I was in a group session with Tammy and she described it as an allergy.
She said, I have an allergy, you know, and that if as long as I put any substance in
my body, I would activate that allergy.
I would trigger that allergy.
She started throwing some big book at you.
Oh, it was amazing.
Yes.
It was amazing because that's that I could identify with, you know.
(15:13):
Again, because I didn't think I had a problem, you know, I never identified as one who had
a problem.
I was in an alcoholic with someone who sat outside the liquor store and waited for it
to open.
I didn't drink every day.
I just drank on the weekends.
I'm just partying.
I'm having a good time, you know, I'm not the, the, what I thought was a person who
was an alcoholic or an addict.
But when she mentioned that, you know, you have this allergy and as soon as you put
(15:36):
any substance in your body, it triggers the body's cravings and the mind will tell you
anything to get more.
And I knew that I said, you know what, that's me because I had been to happy hours and I
had two drinks because I was around coworkers.
But immediately after I left that happy hour, I'd have to go to another bar, you know.
So it was never a moment where I could just socially drink and be okay, you know.
(15:59):
So that after that meeting, I went into my room and I remember really thinking and I
wrote down a lot of situations that had happened in my life, mistakes that I had made because
of drinking and really looking at people I had hurt also, you know, because I remember
telling my wife many times that I'm not hurting anybody, I'm just hurting myself, you know.
(16:21):
Like that was always my excuse.
I always had so many dumb excuses that this is why it's okay, you know.
But that night when I got pinned to paper and I started thinking about, you know, the
people who I'd actually hurt because of my drinking and using, that's when things really,
I like to call them aha moments.
That's when the aha moment went off for me.
(16:43):
So I knew I needed to find a new way to live and a better way of life.
So Loria, when's the first time you remember seeing Cliff?
I remember when he came to the inpatient, when he was inpatient, he came to the alumni
meeting.
He was like, this is nice.
And then like, I like it.
And then I want to say, if it wasn't your first week you came back, it was like, if he's
(17:03):
not coming back, if he's not going to make it, he'll let me know.
And I like that communication.
It's like, I'm going out of town this week.
I won't be there, but I'll see you next week.
And I love how he takes the newcomer in and gives him that message.
So from when he was inpatient to it'll be a year next month.
And it's been a journey that I just seen him grow as an alumni and bringing a newcomer back
(17:27):
and just talking and keeping that message going.
Because he started off with a group of 20.
And I've seen him dendled out.
I watch him lose friends.
You went through that tonight just really in a poignant way, like to try to, you know,
you're talking to people who are going through this now and you're in a treatment facility.
(17:49):
You kind of build a bond with other people that you're here with.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Absolutely.
And how that does change somewhat.
Yeah.
When I left here, July 10th, 2022, I left with 20 phone numbers, 20 good friends who
I call brothers.
(18:11):
We had a group text.
We talked every morning.
We ended the night with I love you.
I mean, it was like things I'd never say to another man, you know, that's the kind of
relationship we had.
And then after the first week, we lost probably three and then we lost five and then we lost
10.
And it just dwindled away.
And sometimes it's due to substance.
Sometimes it's due to life.
Sometimes it's...
Oh, yeah, yeah.
(18:31):
I know that everyone is back out.
I just know that the communication was lost.
And that's something...
Any relationship, when you lose someone who you love and care about and they no longer
speak to you, it hurts.
So that was a moment that I had to really put in check and I had to talk to my sponsor
(18:53):
about, hey, this is happening and it's affecting me.
I'm having a feeling about this.
And you had that support system.
Yes.
So it feels like it's dwindling.
Yes.
Yes.
You're going through loss and grief again.
Yes.
And you got to deal with that.
Yeah.
It's a feeling for sure that is uncomfortable, you know.
And you said tonight, I heard you say, you've got to find new people.
(19:18):
Yes.
You can't just let that dwindle.
You have to replace.
Yes.
Yeah.
You have to find people who are not using and who have found a new way of life.
That is param...
And for me, it's important for my recovery because the support system is a huge part
of my recovery and that's what we have here at alumni.
I met a new group of friends through the alumni who come every Thursday.
(19:42):
And if they don't come on Thursdays, like L'Oreal said, we reach out and say, hey, I
can't make it this week.
It's just a family.
It becomes a family.
So for me, I look forward to that.
And how important is it to have, yes, you've got the people that are at the same level
as you, right?
How important is it to also have some support from people who are at further along in their
(20:05):
journey?
Yes.
Maybe, okay, I've got somebody who's at the same point, you know, our spryty dates are
similar or...
But I also am looking for people who maybe have a year, maybe have 10 years, even the
people that got 25 years.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I will say this.
When I first started going to meetings outside of RCA, that was intimidating, you know, to
(20:31):
hear people that have 25 years.
Because here I am, I couldn't get 25 days before, and I'm in a room full of people
who have 25, 30 years clean.
So it was very intimidating to think that they could relate to my story.
I didn't think they understood what I had been through.
What I learned by going to meetings and listening is that you start to learn to identify in.
(20:55):
I identify with what they have been through.
Because those people, even with the long clean time, they're still only one arm's length
away from picking up.
So it's very important that you listen to what they're doing today to stay clean.
And the fact that they're still going to meetings after 25, 30 years, you know, it speaks volume.
(21:16):
That's why they're going because people like me who just come in, they give them hope.
I give them hope, you know.
That's how it works.
It's a, the program is all about giving back what was so freely given to me, you know.
And I said that tonight as well, because it is very important for me to make sure that
I'm sharing my experience.
Because it does.
It reminds me of where I was and where I came from.
(21:38):
So I think it's beautiful.
And to watch you tonight, it wasn't even just the meeting.
I mean, you show leadership there, but I think the meeting after the meeting, right?
Yes.
Yes.
It's my favorite part.
Talk to me a little bit about the meeting after the meeting.
Yeah.
So I just, I tell the guys, the new guys, you know, what happened to me when I got out of
(22:00):
here.
I recommend to everyone 90 and 90, going to 90 meetings and 90 days.
Very important.
And making sure that they get numbers, as many numbers as possible, and I make sure I
share my number, you know, because I will be that person that you can reach out to.
If you need anything at all to find a meeting.
When I left RCA, it was very hard for me to find a meeting.
They mentioned that it's meetings everywhere.
(22:21):
You can find a meeting anywhere.
The very first three meetings I looked up, they were closed buildings.
And now, yeah, that was, that was tough.
I will not forget that.
So that helps me with the newcomer because I went to two churches and one building.
They were all closed the first day I got out of here.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
So that was, that was discouraging because then it becomes a mindset of like, well, you
(22:42):
know, they said they were everywhere.
Yeah, exactly.
They said this is everywhere and they're nowhere.
And you know, maybe I just, I won't waste my time, you know, like you start to have
those thoughts.
But then, you know, and then I tried to zoom thing.
And for me, zoom didn't work because I didn't get, it wasn't personal enough, you know.
There were thousands of people on zoom and it was like, no, this is not at all what I
(23:04):
thought it would be.
But you know, they also tell you, you know, you don't stop there.
You keep going, you know.
Keep coming back.
Right.
And then you keep coming back.
It's very important.
So I, I, I did, I, I looked at meetings in other areas, you know, and so my journey started,
you know, day two, I went to two meetings the next day and then I just continued to go to
(23:26):
meet.
When I went to that one meeting, I got a pamphlet that had a list of meetings to go to.
So I just kept going to different meetings.
And they have kind of different personalities.
Absolutely.
Different groups and it's kind of, you got to try it on, right?
Yes.
100%.
It's, you know, it's like dating.
You know, you got to keep going out there and trying until you find your match, you
know, what speaks to you.
(23:46):
And going to the same meeting that you didn't care for once, it may be different the next
time based on the speaker or just, you know, I always say, don't make a judgment about
a meeting based on your first.
No.
Go around.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
You keep trying definitely.
And if, if the meeting was, you know, I went to a meeting early on where it was just me
(24:08):
and two other people.
And that was, I was like, oh gosh, you know.
And then I went back the next week and it was still those same two people.
So I was like, what are we going to talk about?
You know, like we, I heard everything last week, you know, but what happens to me, and
this is the God of my understanding, he always puts me in the right place to hear what I
need to hear, you know, because I met those two guys and I won't forget this either.
(24:31):
He didn't share the first time.
He just kind of listened the next time he shared.
He shared my exact story.
Wow.
You know, and that, that's what I knew.
I said, okay, I'm in the right place, you know.
But I didn't, I didn't go back to that meeting after that because again, I wanted to branch
out and find more meetings.
So yeah, I would just tell anybody who's new to just keep going, definitely keep coming
(24:54):
back and until you find your niche, your group of people that you know, you can relate to.
Yeah.
So.
Let's go back if you don't mind.
You're 14.
I'm a parent of teenage kids.
You know, and we always think we would know what's going on or we would, we would be able
(25:17):
to intervene or what was going on with you at 14.
I was trying to fit in, you know, but I didn't know then that I do know now is that early
on I had this need to, to fit in, you know, I grew up in Washington, DC.
And I was, I got picked on because I was a slight skin and then I moved to Virginia when
(25:42):
I was 14.
And then I got picked on because I was dark skin, you know, it was just that kind of thing.
So I always never really fit in.
And when I started smoking weed and drinking, you know, I felt like I fit in.
You had a crowd.
I had a crowd.
I had a family, so to speak, you know.
And I just wanted to be a part of something, you know, and I thought that that made me the
(26:04):
life of the party.
I always, I was always known for being wild.
I was always known for being fun.
So I had a place.
I had, I felt like I had a purpose.
So that became your identity.
Yes.
Pretty quickly.
I mean, or was this, you were just doing this on the weekends at 14 or, you know, how quickly
did that kind of consume you?
No, no, no, it was just on the weekends, but it still, it was, it was definitely a habit,
(26:28):
even though it was only on the weekends because I played sports.
I was pretty good at school, meaning grade wise, and then, but on the weekends, we would
get wild.
And that's how my life, you know, even it just hit me just now saying it, that's how
my life went, you know, because at 14, it was just on the weekends and then it just
kept going.
All I would work from school, then it went to work.
(26:49):
So I would work and I would be very passionate about my job.
And then on the weekends, I would go crazy, you know, it was, that's how I lived my life.
And you were able to manage for a while.
Yes.
Yes.
I, work wise and family wise, I felt like I was able to manage up until now, you know,
it was the police that didn't, that I didn't manage well.
(27:09):
But no, I, yeah, I was able to manage.
I always had a job, I always had a house, I had a car.
So I thought my life was manageable.
And your parent today, what are you, and genetics plays a role, right?
And you said your parents.
Alcoholics.
Alcoholics, androide, addicts.
(27:32):
And so you've kind of got that, how are you parenting differently?
The beauty that I think is that first of all, I am present today, you know, I have always
been a provider, but I wasn't present.
Oh, that's, you know, it's really beautiful.
Yeah.
So I'm present today.
That's the beauty that I have found in recovery.
(27:54):
And I think the other thing is my kids, my kids are older now, I have a 21 year old down
to a 12 year old, you know, and four children, by the way.
Wow.
Yes.
So the beauty I think is that, you know, my kids have seen the beds out of me as well.
They've seen me drunk and they've seen me act a fool, you know, and at the time I think
(28:15):
they probably thought I was the fun dad, but they now see the recovery process, you know,
so that's, I'm very grateful today that they get to see that part because they see the
work that I put in.
They see the changes I'm making and I want them to know that, you know, my 21 year old
in college and she may be drinking, I know she's drinking, you know, and if things do
(28:38):
get out of hand that she knows that there is a program and there is help and hope, you
know, again, because it goes back to me not knowing that there was help or hope.
How transparent are you with your older children?
They're very transparent.
They know everything about my addiction.
They know about my alcohol abuse.
My kids, unfortunately, were there when I got my third DUI, you know.
(29:02):
We were in Ocean City and I was driving and I had checked them into a hotel room and I
was doing some work at a restaurant.
And after work, the owner of the business asked me if I wanted to have some drinks.
I said yes.
And then I drove home and I got a DUI.
They locked me up.
I was on my way to pick my children up to go have dinner.
(29:23):
My children had to stay in that hotel room, couldn't get in contact with me, didn't know
what was going on.
Yeah.
And they, unfortunately, you know, then they start calling my wife, hey, he was supposed
to be here hours ago.
We don't know what happened.
So they had to know what happened, you know.
So very, very transparent into what had happened.
(29:43):
And I explained to them after I left RCA, I said, listen, this is what I didn't know.
I didn't realize that I had an allergy.
I didn't realize that I was an addict, you know.
And this is how I've learned and this is what I'm doing to grow from it.
So I want them to understand the triggers and the things that we suppress feelings by
trying to numb out with alcohol and substances.
(30:05):
So I definitely don't want them to make the same mistakes I made.
And how do you talk to them about therapy, about stigma?
So two of my children, my daughters are both in therapy right now because I want them to
understand that they actually chose to go to therapy without me.
They already have no problem needing to communicate with someone else.
(30:28):
I think we're doing better.
Like this generation is very open to their feeling.
They want that, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
My kids are so much smarter than I ever was.
They're great.
They, yeah.
So I didn't need to tell them about therapy.
What I needed to do is I needed to be honest about that it's okay, you know, to ask for
(30:50):
help, you know, to sit down and say something's not right.
And if you could help me, I'd love to tell you about it.
So that's what they, that's what I'm here now, again, going back to being present.
I'm here now for them to open up and talk to if they ever have anything that needs to
be communicated.
That's great.
Thank you.
(31:10):
That's really great.
So I'm starting the family's recovery or reality.
I want to talk to a little bit about that.
Just how the families, it's not just your recovery, right?
There's a recovery process that the family does.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because once, once a person goes to treatment, I think they go home thinking everything is
(31:32):
going to go back to what they could assume normal.
And the family has a whole process of healing.
I know it takes, you know, a family a while to do it, so I always say family therapy or
how involved you're, you know, you want to be with their significant other if they go
through that.
But you have to think about your family as PTSD that, you know, you're getting in the
(31:52):
car.
It took me a while to just trust, you know, my mom said I'm going to the store when she
moved in with me.
It's like, I'll take you.
It took years to understand, like, we have to get our guard down, you know, our triggers
as well.
And you know, it's like, you people say, oh, no, I'm fine.
I believe I'm good, but the family still has to unpack their trauma.
(32:12):
And that's the stuff that people doesn't look like someone, one person recover, no, the
whole family recover.
So taking that little step and being transparent, which I think is great with your children,
because I don't say that earlier they know, but the sooner they can understand because
it's so much stuff they got to unpack as well, you know, what's going on in life.
(32:32):
So I think the family getting them involved and being honest with them is the best thing
anyone in recovery can do because they can learn so much with Al-Anon and just even support
groups period.
So I definitely think getting the family piece brings it full circle.
I think there's a tendency to when somebody's going through that to sweep it under the rug
(32:58):
or don't let anybody especially.
I think, you know, different families choose different paths, but I think there's a fair
amount of people who we better not talk about this to the kids.
Yeah.
And they talk about that in meetings.
There's a saying that if you, what you don't let off your chest, you'll carry on your back.
(33:19):
You know, so if I, if I choose to sweep it under the rug and not discuss it, what I'm
doing is I'm holding in guilt and I'm holding in resentments with them could lead me to
using again, you know.
I think when we understand the disease better, we understand this isn't just a moral issue.
(33:39):
There are genetics involved and, and letting children of alcoholics and addicts know, hey,
this runs in your bloodline too.
And when we have to discuss it openly as a family because it could be something you're
up against or your children are up against, I think becomes a very powerful message and
(34:01):
really helps when we understand it to reduce that stigma piece.
Going back to what I was saying, that's the biggest part for me is like, I never knew
how to admit that I had a problem, right?
And a lot of people believe that you shouldn't talk about, you know, being in recovery or
the program that you're in.
(34:21):
I disagree with that though, because by me sharing my experience, you know, I, you never
know who you're helping, you know, and that's once you understand that, you know, I am an
addict and like you mentioned, you know, educating myself about the disease I have,
you know, once I know what's wrong, I know how to fix it.
You can't diagnose a problem that you don't know what's wrong.
(34:43):
Yeah.
Once you understand and you have a little education, that's a tool that you can use.
I think one of my favorite things about the treatment setting is just the opportunity to
get that psycho education.
Like to learn about the brain, to learn about the disease model, to learn all the stuff
that goes along with it, that it's not just, you know, this big moral failing, you know,
(35:09):
or my personality, but there's this medical piece.
There's science behind it.
There's science.
Yes.
I see that you have on an N.A. shirt.
When you first left Recurve Center of America, would you wear one proudly then or did it take
courage?
No, I didn't.
It's a great question.
I did not.
I wouldn't wear an N.A. shirt.
(35:30):
I wouldn't wear an N.A. chain, which I also have on.
I wouldn't tell anybody I was in recovery.
I think for me it was more knowing, because when I got out and the few friends that I
had that knew that I went to treatment, I started getting phone calls and saying, hey,
I think I have a problem too and I want to get help.
So once I posted, I think I posted my three month chip and I started getting phone calls.
(35:56):
I said, you know what, this is not something I want to hide anymore.
I could help more people by sharing the message rather than, and I think I shared this to
you as well.
You know, my brother-in-law, when I got out, I immediately called him as soon as the day
I got out and I was like, man, we got this allergy.
This is this thing.
(36:16):
There's a whole science behind it.
And my brother's clean now.
So that was, I immediately saw the benefit of what I got from RCA, the message, because
there's people that don't know, just like I didn't know.
So yeah, I wear it proudly today because you never know who you can help.
(36:39):
So and you said you have a real connection to Father's Day.
Yes.
Tell us about that.
Yeah, absolutely.
My clean date is June 20th.
So June 19th last year was Father's Day and that was the last time I used.
So very gut-riching moment for me because it was my kids' first time seeing me, you
(37:05):
know, really in that setting of darkness, depression.
And, you know, I had had drinks around them before, but they'd never seen me in that
dark moment.
And that was definitely a motivation for me to come to RCA because, yeah, I always told
myself I was okay because they didn't know.
You know, that was one of the things that I prodded myself on that, you know, you're
(37:29):
okay, nobody knows what you're doing.
It's a secret, you know.
And then just like they tell you, it's a progressive disease.
It progressively gets worse.
And here I am now in my house with my kids' home, you know, and they're seeing it firsthand.
So that was definitely a moment that I was ashamed of, you know.
And if someone would have told you in that moment a year from now, you'd be sitting
(37:52):
in this chair.
I would have told them they were crazy.
Again, I did not come here to recover, you know.
I came here to stay out of jail.
But I'm thankful that I did hear the message.
I'm really thankful that my God of my understanding gave me the willingness and the open mind
to hear what they were teaching, you know, because that ultimately would lead to me putting
(38:18):
in the action.
And what's life like now?
Amazing.
Amazing.
My wife and I are very happy.
Again, I spend lots of time with my kids.
The biggest thing I want to touch on though for anyone who is listening who may be struggling
with giving up their lifestyle, because that was a big part for me, is that I glamorized
(38:41):
my lifestyle that I lived, you know.
I thought there was no way I could go to football games and not drink.
I could have a birthday without drinking.
How would I live?
What would be fun, you know?
I remember thinking of myself in that room by myself saying, when somebody asks you,
what's your hobby?
What are you going to say besides drinking?
(39:02):
Because I didn't have a hobby besides drinking, you know.
That was my pastime.
That was what was fun to me.
Today I have plenty hobbies.
One of the first things I did when I got out of here was I went home and tied I'd T-shirts
and socks with my kids because I learned that in here.
So you're the tied I guy.
I just made that connection.
Yes.
(39:22):
Lori has been telling me somebody comes back and helps her tie dye.
I mean, all due respect, you don't look like the tied I guy.
No, before this place I wouldn't have tied I'd anything.
And I also wouldn't have done crossword puzzles or I wouldn't have done puzzles at all or
games, you know.
But those are the things I learned in here.
They have a class that they call fun and recovery, you know.
(39:43):
And that's where I learned those things.
I learned healthy habits, you know, things that my kids love.
And it is.
It really is about finding healthy habits, finding things that I can do that don't involve
drinking and don't involve using, you know.
So those are the things I enjoy today.
So back to your question about what's my life like today.
(40:05):
I go to football games and I make mocktails, you know.
I make good drinks with soda water and guava juice that everybody loves, you know.
I have a group of friends.
You're still the life of the party.
Oh, I am.
I am.
Even more so, I think.
Because now, you know what, I wake up and I don't have a hangover.
I remember everything that happened, you know.
(40:26):
It doesn't rob your personality.
I think that's a fear, right?
Like that I'm not going to be myself or I'm going to be boring.
And you're more yourself.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I'm really myself now, you know.
Because another thing I didn't realize I had a good friend of mine who I thought was a
friend of mine and through my drinking days and she told me sober, she said, oh, I hated
(40:49):
you.
You know, she said, every time I saw you, you would get drunk and you were loud and obnoxious.
I said, really?
I thought you loved me.
But yeah, no, it's, you know, I don't have to apologize for anything today.
You know, life is good today.
You're authentic today.
Yes.
Yes, very authentic.
(41:09):
We usually end with favorite recovery quote.
Do you have one?
Yes, I have many, but I think the one that sticks out to me today, don't use no matter
what.
Because that is something that people don't really adhere to, you know.
(41:32):
Things get better.
You know, I used to think that in this moment, things are very grim and bad.
And you know, one person shared in a meeting that I went to that the temporary pleasure
that you will get from using, you don't give yourself a chance to know that the pleasure
is so much greater saying no.
(41:52):
You know, so you may get a brief moment of happiness from drinking on a bad day.
But when you say no to that drink, it's a whole week of pleasure, you know.
And he's right.
That's one of the things that sticks with me today.
And that healthy pride that says I'm doing this.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that self-respect that comes from.
(42:13):
Yeah.
I feel strong today.
I feel very strong today.
One day at a time.
The other thing that I didn't know was there's so many more things that I'm addicted to
other than drugs and alcohol, you know.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
You really have to get to the root of it, right, because that's what the 12 Steps offers
me.
(42:33):
It offers me freedom from addiction, any addiction, you know, as long as I follow the steps.
I truly believe this, that if the world had a 12 Step program, we would live in a better
world today.
I agree.
Thank you.
Completely.
Advice to dads?
My advice would be give yourself a chance and be the person that you want to be for
(42:58):
your children.
I think we all, all fathers have an inner feeling that they want their children to be proud of
them.
And if you give yourself a chance without doing drugs or alcohol, I think that that can
be a reality for you.
That's awesome.
Thank you both so much, Lorie Alcliff, for being with us today, for your work with our
(43:19):
alumni.
You're really making a difference and appreciate the sacrifices you make to be a leader in
this community, Cliff.
And if you or someone you know needs help today, you can call us at 1-833-RCA-ALUM-ALUM.
And there are members of our mission center team standing by, ready to help you, ready
(43:45):
to get you transportation and get you into treatment and get help.
I'd also like to say, if you have questions for the podcast, you can go to our Instagram
page, Strength and Recovery.
We would love to answer some of your questions from a panel, so please shoot us some questions.
I'm going to be working on some projects later.
(44:07):
If you have ideas for the podcast, shoot over to our Instagram page and say hello.
Have a great day and look forward to being with you again soon.
Thank you for listening to the Strength and Recovery podcast.
(44:30):
If you enjoyed this episode, please tap the subscribe button and leave us a review.
We love hearing from our listeners and hope to reach more of you out there as we continue
to share these incredible stories of recovery.
The RCA alumni team aims to provide a safe, supportive environment for those in the recovery
community regardless of their affiliation with RCA.
(44:55):
We host a full calendar of virtual and in-person meetings as well as free sober events every
month.
To learn more about what we do, find us at rcaalumni.com.
Remember, if you or a loved one is struggling with addiction, pick up the phone and dial
1-833-RCA-ALUMN.
(45:17):
Help is available 24-7.
Listen to another episode now or join us next time for the Strength and Recovery podcast.
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