December 15, 2023 • 33 mins
Hello listeners and welcome to the Strength in Recovery podcast! Today we're sitting down with Julie T. Julie is a mother in recovery- her and Jaye chat through the holidays, the importance of prioritizing a recovery program while raising children, and talking with your kids about your journey with drugs or alcohol. This is a very special holiday episode you won't want to miss! *The views and opinions expressed by the guests of this podcast should not be considered medical or treatment advice. Need treatment? Call 1-833-RCAALUM today. Looking for support? Visit www.rcaalumni.com.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello, listeners. Welcome to Strength and Recovery Podcast. This is a very special holiday episode,
(00:25):
and I'm so excited to be here with you today. And I'm so excited to be with Julie Toy, who's been
an RCA alum and then a mission center employee and then now works at RCA Devon. So thank you,
Berkering, to be with me and to kind of tackle this topic. And we wanted to talk about
(00:47):
parenting and recovery. And then I think the holidays, there is just so much pressure on parents
during the holiday season. I don't care if you're in recovery or not. It's,
you know, we compare ourselves to all the other people on social media, whether we want to or
(01:07):
not, and what are they doing for their kids? And, you know, what are the holiday expectations?
It's just, it can be a tough time. And so it's like, and it also can be a really joyous time. But
we want to just talk about the challenges. So tell us a little bit about you as it relates to
(01:29):
your parenting. So yeah, I'm a single mom, and I raised my daughter who just turned 15.
I've been pretty much raising her on my own for, I guess, since she was about six,
with the help of my family and stuff like that. And I didn't get sober in her life till she was
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either nine or 10. So yeah, she was just about 10 years old, because I'm just five years sober now.
And, you know, it's a tricky word to navigate. You're responsible for another human,
and you're barely able to be responsible for yourself. So coming into recovery,
and really having no life skills, but having this child that I'm responsible for,
(02:16):
was really tough to try to navigate. And there was a lot of pressure in having to learn those
parenting skills really quickly. And I can say like, I got sober in October. So holidays were
shortly to follow my daughter's birthdays in November. So I had like, I just got smacked right away.
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And, you know, like during my, during my addiction, I was always really good at overcompensating. So I
always got her a ton of gifts because I had help from other people who didn't want her to wake up
with like very little under the tree. So when I got sober, I wanted that responsibility to be able to
do provide that life for her, but I still didn't have those finances together. You know, and early
(03:01):
on in sobriety, like when I first got sober and got with my sponsor, she kept saying to me like,
the holidays are just another day. The holidays are just another day. But for me, yes, the holidays
are just another day for me to work my program and stay in recovery. However, the average normal
person, it's not right, they might take that holiday a little bit more to heart. So I have to have
(03:25):
that balance. I have to be able to keep my recovery at just being another day. But I also have to kind
of like, for a lack of a better way to say it, fake it till I make it through the holiday for my
daughter, just because it's something that she still very much enjoys. So it's like, finding this
balance for a lack of a better word, I like to call it more so harmony versus balance.
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And trying to make sure that like, I can still provide those things for her emotionally, the
presence, all that good stuff, all the while still making sure that I'm taking care of my recovery.
And I think it's cool. You guys were like doing recovery together. You know, and so, but it is,
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it is the quality time and kids respond to that, you know, getting out the games, sitting around
playing, you know, monopoly, although our family doesn't play monopoly well, we're too competitive.
So that's not allowed. I'm kidding. But, you know, you know, I think the pressure is not always from
(04:29):
the kids. It's the pressure. And maybe Julie, you can respond to this, but don't you think the
pressure is what we put on ourselves, not necessarily coming from the kids at all?
100%. What really came to my mind was the simple fact that like, when we are really
immersed in these programs, we're taught that the materialistic world is not a world in which we
(04:51):
can be fulfilled in, right? So the thing that I have learned the most in working the program
that I work is really like love. Love is the answer, right? Love is the most powerful thing
and experiences. So we can have all the gifts underneath a tree that we think our children
are going to want, and that's going to make them happy temporarily, right? But calm Jay, like you
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were saying, come after the gifts are open and that part of it's done, they almost forget what we
even bought them. What they're going to remember are the experiences in which we give them and
giving them a sober parent is probably the best gift we can provide any of our children,
let alone like our loved ones. And don't you think there's a temptation or maybe guilt comes into
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play? Well, maybe I haven't been the parent I wanted to be for many years. So now I've got to
make up for that all in one day or all in one year, all in, you know, and maybe it's
Hanukkah, maybe it's Christmas, I mean, the holidays become super pressure filled as kind of a redemption
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of past mistakes with parenting a little bit too. It's like when you become a mom or when you become
a dad, that suddenly you're going to enjoy sitting down and playing Candyland or you're going to
enjoy the pool. I don't know, maybe you did, but I didn't like that didn't I mean, I think there are
(06:31):
some I mean, I could embrace moments and all of that. But you know, it's still parenting is work.
It's it's not you're not going to feel this romantic notion of oh my word, I just love sitting
down and playing Monopoly with my kids and I you know, I can do that for about 20, 30 minutes and
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then I'm ready to move on to the next thing right. Can we just be honest? And those romantic ideas
really set us up for not embracing the reality, right? Somebody said make reality your friend.
And the reality is some of this stuff I'm going to enjoy some of it's just hard work. Julie talked
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a little bit about the work of parenting a little bit. Oh, God, it's it's probably no, it's not
probably it's by far to you know, recovery is work and being a parent is work. Both are the most
rewarding and exhausting jobs of all time, right? And it is it's just a constant, you know, you have
(07:44):
it another human being again, like I said earlier, you're responsible for this human being who's
evolving and growing and you know, their likes change and their dislikes change and you're
trying to keep up with that all the while you are still your own individual person with needs and
wants to and you learn as a parent what things need to be sacrificed for the greater good of the
(08:07):
kid and where you actually need to stand firm within your own truth in your own self. So like,
you know, the holidays are really tough and I don't know about anybody else but I was always that
parent who come Christmas Eve, she would go to bed and there I was wrapping 55 gifts. And now I'm
up till five o'clock in the morning and you know, she could have gone to bed let's say at 11 and
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she was you know, so she should sleep in a little bit but just like every kid they're excited they
get up early right and so now it's 6am I slept an hour and she wants to do all these things she
wants to play the you know, open the gifts and and then play games and do this and mommy mommy
mommy and it's like at some point and it didn't happen right away in recovery it was a learning
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process where I had to like take time out for myself. Okay, the gifts are open, let me get you
breakfast, now I'm going to take some time for myself. I had to make sure that like I was still
carving in that self care right. Yeah, and it's a balancing act and like I said, I mean, when I
when I said balance earlier, I'm not sure that there really is a balance because something's
(09:12):
always getting neglected but you have to be very much aware of yourself as like, okay,
I've been neglecting myself for X amount of hours or X amount of days or X amount of weeks
because I've been trying to take care of this responsibility this job that I have which is to
be a good parent that I need to now put the brakes on and say okay like I can't do any more
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until I do this for myself. I loved what you said about it being harmony not balance and
yeah and I'm a music person so in harmony like for harmony the most beautiful harmony has
dissonance in it like it's got discord there are times when you got to put a little something
(09:58):
that may not feel exactly right but for the greater good and then it resolves and it's like oh wow now
I know why that note was in there or now I know why I had to get that self care in there because
maybe it didn't maybe it felt like I was being selfish in the moment but you know now I can be
present in that second moment and I've heard often what you put in front of your recovery you'll lose
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and I think as a parent that would be an early recovery well I can't put my recovery in front
of my kids like I think that would be a very hard pill to swallow so how do you coach people through
that who say no my kids my family come first but yet now this program is telling me anything I put
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in front of my recovery including my family I'm gonna lose so how did you manage that
ah um for myself it was a no-brainer honestly because my experience showed me that if if my
recovery doesn't come first I'm going to keep repeating the same cycle I had gone to treatment
(11:11):
multiple times for family for my daughter um you know and and it never worked it never worked and
when they finally broke it down to me and said to me like if your recovery comes first your daughter
will reap the benefits of that and if you don't put that first your daughter will reap the the
(11:35):
non-benefits of your disease and she had already dealt with a mom and a dad who were active addicts
and alcoholics and um became homeless as a result of my disease and and all this stuff was taken
away from me by CYS and so she's had you know she's had those non-benefits I can't think of the
(11:57):
other word but the non-benefits of my disease and um my experience showed me that if I didn't put
recovery first I was going to continue to keep losing things and I had already lost my daughter
that's what you did differently I did the first time ever in my life the last time I walked into
treatment and got willing it to be the last time um was that I couldn't get into treatment fast enough
(12:23):
that when I finally got here it took me about five years to get back in um and uh by the time I
walked through the doors there was just this level of relief I was like skipping down the hallways
I remember the admissions person who was who was admitting me was like I've never seen somebody
come in so happy and I said you have no idea how hard it was for me to get in here um and I finally
(12:47):
wanted it for myself more so than anything and you know like I said it was taught to me that if I
kept doing it for myself my daughter would have a much better life and it's it's rain true for me
today right five years later I work my program very thoroughly to the best of my ability um
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and my daughter and I we've been through some challenges with her own mental health and because
I've been able to work a program into her life I'm like now her safe zone and it's just it's so
beautiful to to watch the transformation but I know we also live in a society where there's so much
stigma around recovery and when someone has lived in active addiction you know you hear people say
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well they shouldn't be parent you know how did you get through the stigma that I know you had to
internalize when you were in active addiction um you know well I mean I think it comes without
saying when you're in addiction you already feel really low about yourself so throw in parenting
(14:03):
and you really really feel low I can remember probably about 2017 right before I got sober um
I had so much shame so much guilt embarrassment you name it it was all labeled all over me and
um I just wanted to die like I didn't really want to die but I didn't want to live inside my disease
anymore and I didn't see the way out yet um but what I can say is when I finally made the decision
(14:28):
to get treatment that last time like I said God willing it'd be the last um I didn't care I had
had had enough of being beat down by this disease that I just didn't care I didn't care anymore what
people thought of me I knew who I was like I always say there's almost two different entities
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that kind of reside inside of me there's the addict on one side and then there's the authentic
version on on the other side and um I started to really hone in on that softer side of me who
knew that like we were a much better person and that we had so much more to offer
um and that all the stigma labels that came with the disease weren't identifiers of who I
(15:12):
internally truly was so I was able to really look past them and not give a you know what um
I'm hearing that you developed compassion for yourself I did I did yeah I did and probably
because I was surrounded by so many other people who had the disease that I could have compassion for
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that somewhere my heart started to soften for myself um I can't say it was a Julie thing it was
probably a divine intervention that I'm super grateful that I had and how do you talk to people
who maybe they're new in recovery and they have I mean you guys are preteen teen moms um
oh how would you talk to a child who maybe doesn't know their mom was struggling or dad was struggling
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or maybe didn't know the name for it right how do you recommend people talk to their kids about
recovery I think it kind of just really for me in my experience because I help a lot of women
who are moms in recovery um and even even dads you know I work with guys too but more so women
when I'm outside in my community um and I think it really all depends it's kind of case by case
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hello does the kid what have they seen um you know do I see more than you think they've seen
likely right likely absolutely um but I think it's it's a delicate situation right because
each individual child that we're going to approach is going to process it differently
um I think in a general sense like especially when it comes to people coming into treatment
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right what am I going to tell my children where am I telling them that I'm going
you tell them that you're going to mommy daddy camp or something like that or that you have to go
into right because here's the thing it depends on the age of the child if we get too involved
in the conversation with them we've now instilled an unnecessary fear inside of them and we strip
the way strip away their ability to just be a child so my daughter was exposed to my drinking
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and drugging very much so um so when I went to treatment it wasn't this last time it wasn't
my first time going away on her right she had seen me go to treatment since she was two years old
up until the time that she was nine or ten um so this wasn't something new to her and she knew
that mommy and daddy were sick um and so my explanation to her was that I'm not well um but
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I can get well and I'm going to work towards that and then you know the conversation of
she became old enough for me to really give her like hey your mom's a drug addict and an alcoholic
this is this is what it is um you know whether it's a predisposition that I'm born with through
the family genetics or you know I don't know I don't have those answers um but I do tell her
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that like both of your parents are drug addicts and alcoholics are the likelihood of being
one as well you have a greater chance than somebody who doesn't have parents who are
alcoholics and addicts um and so I really educate her she's gone to meetings with me she sees all
my sponsors coming to the house uh she she sees my hundreds of big books everywhere um so she's
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really exposed to the world she understands what it is and then my family freely talks about it
you know and do you think that allows her to ask questions and to
have a dialogue between the two of you it does definitely I will say that before I got sober
um I think my daughter we've always had a really strong bond um but I think that she was very
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fearful of whether mom was going to live or die um today we you know other than fluke
incidences that may happen car crashes you know whatever you don't know when your time is up
but she trusts the fact that mom is going to work when mom has done work mom is going to work
when mom is done work mom is coming home you know it's very consistent for her which allows her
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um and I'm very open with my daughter but she's old enough to understand when she was younger
I didn't communicate too much to her um I remember her dad was very much like he would tell her
everything and that would bother me because I said you know you can't she's a child
certain information she shouldn't be privy to now that she's old enough and she's a teenager
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yes she needs to know that this is part of my life this is why it's a part of my life
and that the likelihood that it could be part of her life is pretty great too so I want to
get that education for her normalizing if you're if you're having trouble with that that's something
like a family therapist can really help you what is age appropriate communication how exactly
(20:00):
like you and sitting down if you want to make that disclosure you know if this is the first
time they're hearing mom struggles with you know that's something that could be done with a family
therapist yeah and like I said I just think it's really case by case understanding the
in depth of the situation before we go and just you know tell our children everything um
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it for me it's case by case let's shift a little bit about you know people
feeling like the holidays are coming they're here um they need help but they don't want to
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leave their children in order to get help I think that would be so scary um how do you talk through
I mean you guys help people access care 24 hours a day seven days a week um you know I'm privy to
a lot of the work that you guys do behind the scenes to help people access care and I know a
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lot of the times people will say I just can't go right now I got to get through Thanksgiving
I just can't go right now I've got this family obligation I can't miss this or I can't miss that
um how do you coach people through those moments you know a couple of different things one are we
even going to be present when we're going through these holidays and how much uh turmoil are your
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loved ones going to be going through because you're a mess right um the other thing that I like to
point out to people is like this is a small fraction of time that if you actually truly invest into
yourself during this time as difficult as it is um you don't ever have to do it again and that time
that you go for that short blip on the map those 30 days um during that holiday if you've invested
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into yourself you take this serious you put your recovery first they'll never remember the time that
you weren't there you can fulfill them moving forward you can be there for those things the other
thing is too like we are literally playing Russian roulette with our loves I don't care if it's alcohol
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I don't you know I have many stories about people who were just alcoholics who passed away from the
disease somebody who was very near and dear to my heart fell down her steps broke her neck and she
died right so like these are real things that we don't know um are or are not going to happen so
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there is the likelihood that maybe this could be the last time that your children might have a parent
why not give them the best gift of all time to just invest in yourself for 30 days and when
you get out it's not just 30 days right we know that this is a lifelong journey but when you get
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out and you get yourself around these people um who are going to lift you up until your foundation
is solid and you can stand on your own you can give them a lifetime of that beautiful gift that's
priceless it is the most priceless gift your healing when you're a parent I heard this quote
I'm not going to give it to you I can't remember exactly what it says but something along the lines
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of like your healing is the most beautiful gift you can ever give your children because through
your healing you teach your children how to heal and how to be better people and how to navigate
this very difficult life right like life's not easy and the demand on humans and the you know all
the things that we see these days which is a little bit different than it was 20 years ago um
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but if we're not getting ourselves well we're not giving them any tools either so ultimately it's
selfish and self-centered we're stripping away from a responsibility that was a gift from whatever
right like I say mine's a god-giving gift it's my responsibility to make sure I take good care of
that gift um so doing that for 30 days during the holidays one your your family is probably going to
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have the best rest they've ever had because they know that you're safe um your children will hopefully
be getting the version of the parent they're deserving of and you don't ever have to do it
again if you actually take the time to invest into yourself then you have all these other holidays
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that are going to be memorable are you going to remember the holiday if you're intoxicated
no you're not you're not present you're not doing anybody any favors you're being
kind of selfish and thinking that you need to be there for that and then the likelihood that maybe
you'll never have another one ever again is what we're seeing time and time again now
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for so many I think that really affects and we see it because women typically have the caregiving
responsibilities it's very hard for women to access care they're caring for not only the
children but oftentimes the home and maybe even parents and um you know they it's it's tough for
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mom to be away um but reiterating the fact this is life for death and we don't like to think of
ourselves as as being self-serving but taking you know and go back to the put your own life mask on
you know the airplane announcement put your life mask on first before you start helping others and
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um yeah sometimes we're on borrowed time and getting that help as soon as possible as soon
as you're willing um is really key so thank you for that message talk to me a little bit maybe this
is not someone in recovery or maybe this isn't someone who needs help maybe this is a family
(26:04):
member listening to this um what advice do you have for family members who are watching their
loved one struggle with parenting watching their loved one um you know in active addiction um how
do they help oh again I mean case by case right it depends um I think the one thing and I've worked
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with a lot of families just within the mission center and then over here in this position now
um you know the one thing that I do try to teach them so a lot of times what we say is the family
members live in this fear and they're like on this balance beam trying to not push the person
further into their disease and all the while still trying to have some type of boundary um
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the one thing that was taught to me was like never make any threats to them right if it's a
boundary that you're not willing to hold firmly then don't make that don't throw out the threat
addicts or an alcoholics are really good at manipulating and when we we see threats you know
clear as day right um the other thing too and and this was one of the best things that I had ever
learned and I've been able to use with my own loved ones who are struggling inside their disease
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is that I'm going to support you 100 in your recovery but I will not support you in your
disease anymore and that has to be a hard stop um because I think essentially what starts to happen
is is we don't want to see our loved ones die um and that fear just overtakes us so we actually
can start to operate from that fear and really what that starts looking like is enabling their
(27:45):
behaviors and it doesn't get any better um as scary as it is you kind of just have to like take that
step back and you know sometimes we'll hear like well my you know like people will call in and be
like please don't tell my loved one that I called and I get all that and I will never you know if
they don't want me to disclose how I found out I'm not going to however at the same time if we're
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avoiding these hard conversations we're allowing the disease to control everybody's lives right
I said therefore that person isn't going to make any changes because what they're doing right now
is actually still working for them. Talk me a little bit about um just some practical tips
like you said in active addiction there's this level of manipulation and the holidays can be
(28:32):
oh man my my lights are going to get turned off I need money for this or I need money for the
kids gifts what are some practical tips for family members or people who are watching other struggle
I think that there are people who are so newly into dealing with their loved ones disease and
not thinking that they're really even enabling by paying for things or whatever but if we've
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been in this situation for some time and nothing's changing and the lights are about to be turned off
the lights have to be turned off right because like Lee was saying and I said earlier what you're
essentially teaching that person if we keep doing for them is that they don't need to change because
what they're doing is working people are still sending those life raps so we don't know that
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anything has to change right and what happens is is we this is my experience I blew through so many
people right so when those people stopped doing things for me then I went on to the next person
then I went on to the next person until I had exhausted all of my options and I finally went
something's not working here right and then I had to actually take a look inward and it started
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I think that the last people who were really the ones to stop throwing me those life raps was my
own family and when I started to feel the weight of my family and seeing the disappointment and
them not wanting me around them I wasn't really welcomed at a lot of places if I was all eyes were
on me what is she up to how long she been in the bathroom this that and the other
(30:00):
that I started to realize that something else needed to change and I had to go inward for that
allowing the person you love to fail yeah so here's the analogy that I've used for loved ones
when we have babies who are learning to walk and they fall down we do not pick them back up
because they need to learn to walk on their own that does not change when we become adults
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it just becomes a different scenario and as our children are becoming adults in active addiction
they have they're still individuals they're still accountability they still have to learn to be
responsible for themselves and it hurts to watch people fall it does with every fiber of our being
we want to pick that person up and hug them and be like here I'm going to help you but I can only
(30:48):
help you if you're willing to make the change for the greater good I can't support the disease
anymore because you can't hear you can't hear or see any of the good that's happening anyway
does that make sense absolutely it's beautiful really is Julie thank you so much for talking to
us today I just I think that's such an important conversation and thanks for your vulnerability
(31:14):
and your your openness I really applaud you and and honor you for being willing to share your story
and thank you so much we usually end with favorite recovery quote but because it's the holidays
favorite holiday song mine's actually silent night it gets me every time every time I can't help
(31:37):
but cry every time I hear it that's beautiful listeners thank you so much for joining us
if you or someone you know needs help please call 1-833-RCA-ALUM if you're a loved one and your loved
one needs help we have free intervention services we can connect you with to have those conversations
(31:59):
with your loved one just want to make sure that you and your loved ones are safe this holiday
season please give us a call the alumni association our alumni coordinators are standing by to help
reach out have a great day
(32:20):
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(32:40):
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(33:04):
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listen to another episode now or join us next time for the strength and recovery podcast
Hello, listeners. Welcome to Strength and Recovery Podcast. This is a very special holiday episode,
(00:25):
and I'm so excited to be here with you today. And I'm so excited to be with Julie Toy, who's been
an RCA alum and then a mission center employee and then now works at RCA Devon. So thank you,
Berkering, to be with me and to kind of tackle this topic. And we wanted to talk about
(00:47):
parenting and recovery. And then I think the holidays, there is just so much pressure on parents
during the holiday season. I don't care if you're in recovery or not. It's,
you know, we compare ourselves to all the other people on social media, whether we want to or
(01:07):
not, and what are they doing for their kids? And, you know, what are the holiday expectations?
It's just, it can be a tough time. And so it's like, and it also can be a really joyous time. But
we want to just talk about the challenges. So tell us a little bit about you as it relates to
(01:29):
your parenting. So yeah, I'm a single mom, and I raised my daughter who just turned 15.
I've been pretty much raising her on my own for, I guess, since she was about six,
with the help of my family and stuff like that. And I didn't get sober in her life till she was
(01:51):
either nine or 10. So yeah, she was just about 10 years old, because I'm just five years sober now.
And, you know, it's a tricky word to navigate. You're responsible for another human,
and you're barely able to be responsible for yourself. So coming into recovery,
and really having no life skills, but having this child that I'm responsible for,
(02:16):
was really tough to try to navigate. And there was a lot of pressure in having to learn those
parenting skills really quickly. And I can say like, I got sober in October. So holidays were
shortly to follow my daughter's birthdays in November. So I had like, I just got smacked right away.
(02:36):
And, you know, like during my, during my addiction, I was always really good at overcompensating. So I
always got her a ton of gifts because I had help from other people who didn't want her to wake up
with like very little under the tree. So when I got sober, I wanted that responsibility to be able to
do provide that life for her, but I still didn't have those finances together. You know, and early
(03:01):
on in sobriety, like when I first got sober and got with my sponsor, she kept saying to me like,
the holidays are just another day. The holidays are just another day. But for me, yes, the holidays
are just another day for me to work my program and stay in recovery. However, the average normal
person, it's not right, they might take that holiday a little bit more to heart. So I have to have
(03:25):
that balance. I have to be able to keep my recovery at just being another day. But I also have to kind
of like, for a lack of a better way to say it, fake it till I make it through the holiday for my
daughter, just because it's something that she still very much enjoys. So it's like, finding this
balance for a lack of a better word, I like to call it more so harmony versus balance.
(03:46):
And trying to make sure that like, I can still provide those things for her emotionally, the
presence, all that good stuff, all the while still making sure that I'm taking care of my recovery.
And I think it's cool. You guys were like doing recovery together. You know, and so, but it is,
(04:08):
it is the quality time and kids respond to that, you know, getting out the games, sitting around
playing, you know, monopoly, although our family doesn't play monopoly well, we're too competitive.
So that's not allowed. I'm kidding. But, you know, you know, I think the pressure is not always from
(04:29):
the kids. It's the pressure. And maybe Julie, you can respond to this, but don't you think the
pressure is what we put on ourselves, not necessarily coming from the kids at all?
100%. What really came to my mind was the simple fact that like, when we are really
immersed in these programs, we're taught that the materialistic world is not a world in which we
(04:51):
can be fulfilled in, right? So the thing that I have learned the most in working the program
that I work is really like love. Love is the answer, right? Love is the most powerful thing
and experiences. So we can have all the gifts underneath a tree that we think our children
are going to want, and that's going to make them happy temporarily, right? But calm Jay, like you
(05:16):
were saying, come after the gifts are open and that part of it's done, they almost forget what we
even bought them. What they're going to remember are the experiences in which we give them and
giving them a sober parent is probably the best gift we can provide any of our children,
let alone like our loved ones. And don't you think there's a temptation or maybe guilt comes into
(05:42):
play? Well, maybe I haven't been the parent I wanted to be for many years. So now I've got to
make up for that all in one day or all in one year, all in, you know, and maybe it's
Hanukkah, maybe it's Christmas, I mean, the holidays become super pressure filled as kind of a redemption
(06:05):
of past mistakes with parenting a little bit too. It's like when you become a mom or when you become
a dad, that suddenly you're going to enjoy sitting down and playing Candyland or you're going to
enjoy the pool. I don't know, maybe you did, but I didn't like that didn't I mean, I think there are
(06:31):
some I mean, I could embrace moments and all of that. But you know, it's still parenting is work.
It's it's not you're not going to feel this romantic notion of oh my word, I just love sitting
down and playing Monopoly with my kids and I you know, I can do that for about 20, 30 minutes and
(06:53):
then I'm ready to move on to the next thing right. Can we just be honest? And those romantic ideas
really set us up for not embracing the reality, right? Somebody said make reality your friend.
And the reality is some of this stuff I'm going to enjoy some of it's just hard work. Julie talked
(07:18):
a little bit about the work of parenting a little bit. Oh, God, it's it's probably no, it's not
probably it's by far to you know, recovery is work and being a parent is work. Both are the most
rewarding and exhausting jobs of all time, right? And it is it's just a constant, you know, you have
(07:44):
it another human being again, like I said earlier, you're responsible for this human being who's
evolving and growing and you know, their likes change and their dislikes change and you're
trying to keep up with that all the while you are still your own individual person with needs and
wants to and you learn as a parent what things need to be sacrificed for the greater good of the
(08:07):
kid and where you actually need to stand firm within your own truth in your own self. So like,
you know, the holidays are really tough and I don't know about anybody else but I was always that
parent who come Christmas Eve, she would go to bed and there I was wrapping 55 gifts. And now I'm
up till five o'clock in the morning and you know, she could have gone to bed let's say at 11 and
(08:30):
she was you know, so she should sleep in a little bit but just like every kid they're excited they
get up early right and so now it's 6am I slept an hour and she wants to do all these things she
wants to play the you know, open the gifts and and then play games and do this and mommy mommy
mommy and it's like at some point and it didn't happen right away in recovery it was a learning
(08:50):
process where I had to like take time out for myself. Okay, the gifts are open, let me get you
breakfast, now I'm going to take some time for myself. I had to make sure that like I was still
carving in that self care right. Yeah, and it's a balancing act and like I said, I mean, when I
when I said balance earlier, I'm not sure that there really is a balance because something's
(09:12):
always getting neglected but you have to be very much aware of yourself as like, okay,
I've been neglecting myself for X amount of hours or X amount of days or X amount of weeks
because I've been trying to take care of this responsibility this job that I have which is to
be a good parent that I need to now put the brakes on and say okay like I can't do any more
(09:34):
until I do this for myself. I loved what you said about it being harmony not balance and
yeah and I'm a music person so in harmony like for harmony the most beautiful harmony has
dissonance in it like it's got discord there are times when you got to put a little something
(09:58):
that may not feel exactly right but for the greater good and then it resolves and it's like oh wow now
I know why that note was in there or now I know why I had to get that self care in there because
maybe it didn't maybe it felt like I was being selfish in the moment but you know now I can be
present in that second moment and I've heard often what you put in front of your recovery you'll lose
(10:25):
and I think as a parent that would be an early recovery well I can't put my recovery in front
of my kids like I think that would be a very hard pill to swallow so how do you coach people through
that who say no my kids my family come first but yet now this program is telling me anything I put
(10:48):
in front of my recovery including my family I'm gonna lose so how did you manage that
ah um for myself it was a no-brainer honestly because my experience showed me that if if my
recovery doesn't come first I'm going to keep repeating the same cycle I had gone to treatment
(11:11):
multiple times for family for my daughter um you know and and it never worked it never worked and
when they finally broke it down to me and said to me like if your recovery comes first your daughter
will reap the benefits of that and if you don't put that first your daughter will reap the the
(11:35):
non-benefits of your disease and she had already dealt with a mom and a dad who were active addicts
and alcoholics and um became homeless as a result of my disease and and all this stuff was taken
away from me by CYS and so she's had you know she's had those non-benefits I can't think of the
(11:57):
other word but the non-benefits of my disease and um my experience showed me that if I didn't put
recovery first I was going to continue to keep losing things and I had already lost my daughter
that's what you did differently I did the first time ever in my life the last time I walked into
treatment and got willing it to be the last time um was that I couldn't get into treatment fast enough
(12:23):
that when I finally got here it took me about five years to get back in um and uh by the time I
walked through the doors there was just this level of relief I was like skipping down the hallways
I remember the admissions person who was who was admitting me was like I've never seen somebody
come in so happy and I said you have no idea how hard it was for me to get in here um and I finally
(12:47):
wanted it for myself more so than anything and you know like I said it was taught to me that if I
kept doing it for myself my daughter would have a much better life and it's it's rain true for me
today right five years later I work my program very thoroughly to the best of my ability um
(13:10):
and my daughter and I we've been through some challenges with her own mental health and because
I've been able to work a program into her life I'm like now her safe zone and it's just it's so
beautiful to to watch the transformation but I know we also live in a society where there's so much
stigma around recovery and when someone has lived in active addiction you know you hear people say
(13:38):
well they shouldn't be parent you know how did you get through the stigma that I know you had to
internalize when you were in active addiction um you know well I mean I think it comes without
saying when you're in addiction you already feel really low about yourself so throw in parenting
(14:03):
and you really really feel low I can remember probably about 2017 right before I got sober um
I had so much shame so much guilt embarrassment you name it it was all labeled all over me and
um I just wanted to die like I didn't really want to die but I didn't want to live inside my disease
anymore and I didn't see the way out yet um but what I can say is when I finally made the decision
(14:28):
to get treatment that last time like I said God willing it'd be the last um I didn't care I had
had had enough of being beat down by this disease that I just didn't care I didn't care anymore what
people thought of me I knew who I was like I always say there's almost two different entities
(14:49):
that kind of reside inside of me there's the addict on one side and then there's the authentic
version on on the other side and um I started to really hone in on that softer side of me who
knew that like we were a much better person and that we had so much more to offer
um and that all the stigma labels that came with the disease weren't identifiers of who I
(15:12):
internally truly was so I was able to really look past them and not give a you know what um
I'm hearing that you developed compassion for yourself I did I did yeah I did and probably
because I was surrounded by so many other people who had the disease that I could have compassion for
(15:34):
that somewhere my heart started to soften for myself um I can't say it was a Julie thing it was
probably a divine intervention that I'm super grateful that I had and how do you talk to people
who maybe they're new in recovery and they have I mean you guys are preteen teen moms um
oh how would you talk to a child who maybe doesn't know their mom was struggling or dad was struggling
(16:02):
or maybe didn't know the name for it right how do you recommend people talk to their kids about
recovery I think it kind of just really for me in my experience because I help a lot of women
who are moms in recovery um and even even dads you know I work with guys too but more so women
when I'm outside in my community um and I think it really all depends it's kind of case by case
(16:29):
hello does the kid what have they seen um you know do I see more than you think they've seen
likely right likely absolutely um but I think it's it's a delicate situation right because
each individual child that we're going to approach is going to process it differently
um I think in a general sense like especially when it comes to people coming into treatment
(16:53):
right what am I going to tell my children where am I telling them that I'm going
you tell them that you're going to mommy daddy camp or something like that or that you have to go
into right because here's the thing it depends on the age of the child if we get too involved
in the conversation with them we've now instilled an unnecessary fear inside of them and we strip
the way strip away their ability to just be a child so my daughter was exposed to my drinking
(17:22):
and drugging very much so um so when I went to treatment it wasn't this last time it wasn't
my first time going away on her right she had seen me go to treatment since she was two years old
up until the time that she was nine or ten um so this wasn't something new to her and she knew
that mommy and daddy were sick um and so my explanation to her was that I'm not well um but
(17:46):
I can get well and I'm going to work towards that and then you know the conversation of
she became old enough for me to really give her like hey your mom's a drug addict and an alcoholic
this is this is what it is um you know whether it's a predisposition that I'm born with through
the family genetics or you know I don't know I don't have those answers um but I do tell her
(18:10):
that like both of your parents are drug addicts and alcoholics are the likelihood of being
one as well you have a greater chance than somebody who doesn't have parents who are
alcoholics and addicts um and so I really educate her she's gone to meetings with me she sees all
my sponsors coming to the house uh she she sees my hundreds of big books everywhere um so she's
(18:31):
really exposed to the world she understands what it is and then my family freely talks about it
you know and do you think that allows her to ask questions and to
have a dialogue between the two of you it does definitely I will say that before I got sober
um I think my daughter we've always had a really strong bond um but I think that she was very
(18:52):
fearful of whether mom was going to live or die um today we you know other than fluke
incidences that may happen car crashes you know whatever you don't know when your time is up
but she trusts the fact that mom is going to work when mom has done work mom is going to work
when mom is done work mom is coming home you know it's very consistent for her which allows her
(19:14):
um and I'm very open with my daughter but she's old enough to understand when she was younger
I didn't communicate too much to her um I remember her dad was very much like he would tell her
everything and that would bother me because I said you know you can't she's a child
certain information she shouldn't be privy to now that she's old enough and she's a teenager
(19:39):
yes she needs to know that this is part of my life this is why it's a part of my life
and that the likelihood that it could be part of her life is pretty great too so I want to
get that education for her normalizing if you're if you're having trouble with that that's something
like a family therapist can really help you what is age appropriate communication how exactly
(20:00):
like you and sitting down if you want to make that disclosure you know if this is the first
time they're hearing mom struggles with you know that's something that could be done with a family
therapist yeah and like I said I just think it's really case by case understanding the
in depth of the situation before we go and just you know tell our children everything um
(20:22):
it for me it's case by case let's shift a little bit about you know people
feeling like the holidays are coming they're here um they need help but they don't want to
(20:43):
leave their children in order to get help I think that would be so scary um how do you talk through
I mean you guys help people access care 24 hours a day seven days a week um you know I'm privy to
a lot of the work that you guys do behind the scenes to help people access care and I know a
(21:08):
lot of the times people will say I just can't go right now I got to get through Thanksgiving
I just can't go right now I've got this family obligation I can't miss this or I can't miss that
um how do you coach people through those moments you know a couple of different things one are we
even going to be present when we're going through these holidays and how much uh turmoil are your
(21:35):
loved ones going to be going through because you're a mess right um the other thing that I like to
point out to people is like this is a small fraction of time that if you actually truly invest into
yourself during this time as difficult as it is um you don't ever have to do it again and that time
that you go for that short blip on the map those 30 days um during that holiday if you've invested
(22:03):
into yourself you take this serious you put your recovery first they'll never remember the time that
you weren't there you can fulfill them moving forward you can be there for those things the other
thing is too like we are literally playing Russian roulette with our loves I don't care if it's alcohol
(22:24):
I don't you know I have many stories about people who were just alcoholics who passed away from the
disease somebody who was very near and dear to my heart fell down her steps broke her neck and she
died right so like these are real things that we don't know um are or are not going to happen so
(22:44):
there is the likelihood that maybe this could be the last time that your children might have a parent
why not give them the best gift of all time to just invest in yourself for 30 days and when
you get out it's not just 30 days right we know that this is a lifelong journey but when you get
(23:04):
out and you get yourself around these people um who are going to lift you up until your foundation
is solid and you can stand on your own you can give them a lifetime of that beautiful gift that's
priceless it is the most priceless gift your healing when you're a parent I heard this quote
I'm not going to give it to you I can't remember exactly what it says but something along the lines
(23:27):
of like your healing is the most beautiful gift you can ever give your children because through
your healing you teach your children how to heal and how to be better people and how to navigate
this very difficult life right like life's not easy and the demand on humans and the you know all
the things that we see these days which is a little bit different than it was 20 years ago um
(23:50):
but if we're not getting ourselves well we're not giving them any tools either so ultimately it's
selfish and self-centered we're stripping away from a responsibility that was a gift from whatever
right like I say mine's a god-giving gift it's my responsibility to make sure I take good care of
that gift um so doing that for 30 days during the holidays one your your family is probably going to
(24:12):
have the best rest they've ever had because they know that you're safe um your children will hopefully
be getting the version of the parent they're deserving of and you don't ever have to do it
again if you actually take the time to invest into yourself then you have all these other holidays
(24:33):
that are going to be memorable are you going to remember the holiday if you're intoxicated
no you're not you're not present you're not doing anybody any favors you're being
kind of selfish and thinking that you need to be there for that and then the likelihood that maybe
you'll never have another one ever again is what we're seeing time and time again now
(24:56):
for so many I think that really affects and we see it because women typically have the caregiving
responsibilities it's very hard for women to access care they're caring for not only the
children but oftentimes the home and maybe even parents and um you know they it's it's tough for
(25:19):
mom to be away um but reiterating the fact this is life for death and we don't like to think of
ourselves as as being self-serving but taking you know and go back to the put your own life mask on
you know the airplane announcement put your life mask on first before you start helping others and
(25:42):
um yeah sometimes we're on borrowed time and getting that help as soon as possible as soon
as you're willing um is really key so thank you for that message talk to me a little bit maybe this
is not someone in recovery or maybe this isn't someone who needs help maybe this is a family
(26:04):
member listening to this um what advice do you have for family members who are watching their
loved one struggle with parenting watching their loved one um you know in active addiction um how
do they help oh again I mean case by case right it depends um I think the one thing and I've worked
(26:31):
with a lot of families just within the mission center and then over here in this position now
um you know the one thing that I do try to teach them so a lot of times what we say is the family
members live in this fear and they're like on this balance beam trying to not push the person
further into their disease and all the while still trying to have some type of boundary um
(26:56):
the one thing that was taught to me was like never make any threats to them right if it's a
boundary that you're not willing to hold firmly then don't make that don't throw out the threat
addicts or an alcoholics are really good at manipulating and when we we see threats you know
clear as day right um the other thing too and and this was one of the best things that I had ever
learned and I've been able to use with my own loved ones who are struggling inside their disease
(27:22):
is that I'm going to support you 100 in your recovery but I will not support you in your
disease anymore and that has to be a hard stop um because I think essentially what starts to happen
is is we don't want to see our loved ones die um and that fear just overtakes us so we actually
can start to operate from that fear and really what that starts looking like is enabling their
(27:45):
behaviors and it doesn't get any better um as scary as it is you kind of just have to like take that
step back and you know sometimes we'll hear like well my you know like people will call in and be
like please don't tell my loved one that I called and I get all that and I will never you know if
they don't want me to disclose how I found out I'm not going to however at the same time if we're
(28:05):
avoiding these hard conversations we're allowing the disease to control everybody's lives right
I said therefore that person isn't going to make any changes because what they're doing right now
is actually still working for them. Talk me a little bit about um just some practical tips
like you said in active addiction there's this level of manipulation and the holidays can be
(28:32):
oh man my my lights are going to get turned off I need money for this or I need money for the
kids gifts what are some practical tips for family members or people who are watching other struggle
I think that there are people who are so newly into dealing with their loved ones disease and
not thinking that they're really even enabling by paying for things or whatever but if we've
(28:52):
been in this situation for some time and nothing's changing and the lights are about to be turned off
the lights have to be turned off right because like Lee was saying and I said earlier what you're
essentially teaching that person if we keep doing for them is that they don't need to change because
what they're doing is working people are still sending those life raps so we don't know that
(29:15):
anything has to change right and what happens is is we this is my experience I blew through so many
people right so when those people stopped doing things for me then I went on to the next person
then I went on to the next person until I had exhausted all of my options and I finally went
something's not working here right and then I had to actually take a look inward and it started
(29:38):
I think that the last people who were really the ones to stop throwing me those life raps was my
own family and when I started to feel the weight of my family and seeing the disappointment and
them not wanting me around them I wasn't really welcomed at a lot of places if I was all eyes were
on me what is she up to how long she been in the bathroom this that and the other
(30:00):
that I started to realize that something else needed to change and I had to go inward for that
allowing the person you love to fail yeah so here's the analogy that I've used for loved ones
when we have babies who are learning to walk and they fall down we do not pick them back up
because they need to learn to walk on their own that does not change when we become adults
(30:25):
it just becomes a different scenario and as our children are becoming adults in active addiction
they have they're still individuals they're still accountability they still have to learn to be
responsible for themselves and it hurts to watch people fall it does with every fiber of our being
we want to pick that person up and hug them and be like here I'm going to help you but I can only
(30:48):
help you if you're willing to make the change for the greater good I can't support the disease
anymore because you can't hear you can't hear or see any of the good that's happening anyway
does that make sense absolutely it's beautiful really is Julie thank you so much for talking to
us today I just I think that's such an important conversation and thanks for your vulnerability
(31:14):
and your your openness I really applaud you and and honor you for being willing to share your story
and thank you so much we usually end with favorite recovery quote but because it's the holidays
favorite holiday song mine's actually silent night it gets me every time every time I can't help
(31:37):
but cry every time I hear it that's beautiful listeners thank you so much for joining us
if you or someone you know needs help please call 1-833-RCA-ALUM if you're a loved one and your loved
one needs help we have free intervention services we can connect you with to have those conversations
(31:59):
with your loved one just want to make sure that you and your loved ones are safe this holiday
season please give us a call the alumni association our alumni coordinators are standing by to help
reach out have a great day
(32:20):
thank you for listening to the strength and recovery podcast if you enjoyed this episode
please tap the subscribe button and leave us a review we love hearing from our listeners
and hope to reach more of you out there as we continue to share these incredible stories
(32:40):
of recovery the rca alumni team aims to provide a safe supportive environment for those in the
recovery community regardless of their affiliation with rca we host a full calendar of virtual and
in-person meetings seven days a week 365 days a year as well as free sober events every month
(33:04):
to learn more about what we do find us at rca alumni dot com remember if you or a loved one is
struggling with addiction pick up the phone and dial 1-833-RCA-ALUMN help is available 24-7
listen to another episode now or join us next time for the strength and recovery podcast
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