September 8, 2023 • 55 mins
Hello listeners! Welcome Back to the Strength In Recovery podcast. We're sitting down today with Tom S. from our Bracebridge Hall location in Earleville, Maryland. Tom's story is a testament to the power of resilience, hope, and the transformative potential of recovery.
Tom candidly shares how that initial seed planted — an idea, a moment, a glimmer of hope, ultimately led him on the path to long-term recovery from addiction. Through his heartfelt and relatable storytelling, Tom takes us on a journey through the ups and downs, the trials and triumphs that have shaped his life.
*The views and opinions expressed by the guests of this podcast are their own and not necessarily those of RCA. These interviews are personal testimonials of recovery and should not be considered medical or treatment advice.
Need treatment? Call 1-833-RCAALUM today.
Looking for support? Visit www.rcaalumni.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello listeners, welcome to the Strength and Recovery podcast. I'm here with Tom Seward.
(00:22):
He is an alum of our Bracebridge Hall location and it is a beautiful facility. Can you tell
me in Earlville, Maryland, but Tom, tell us on the map, like where is that? Where are
you?
Yeah, I think we're at the top of the eastern shore of, you know, the Chesapeake Bay in
(00:44):
Maryland. But Bracebridge Hall, I think, I think I have roughly 600 acres or something
here. It's a massive property. They're right on the Sassapurass River, or is it the Bohemia
River or the Sassapurass River? I don't know. It's a gorgeous property. It's very beautiful,
remote Cecil County, nothing but farms around here in water, mostly.
(01:05):
A real gorgeous place.
It sure is. Very conducive to, I mean, it's peaceful. It's a good spot for, you know, for
someone to start their journey over and over.
Absolutely. Tell us a little bit about how you got connected to Bracebridge.
Okay. Well, full disclosure, I'm a little nervous. It's funny. I was just having a conversation
(01:29):
with some friends before we started. I've come to accept, I've learned in my recovery,
that everything that makes me grow today requires discomfort. That's the price I pay. So I'm
uncomfortable a lot today. And I'm just really grateful. You know, 20 months ago, I was a
patient here and I wanted to die. And today, my life has just changed so dramatically. I
(01:50):
mean, it's, I think miraculous is a fitting word. And, you know, 20 months ago, nobody
was asking me to appear on podcasts. I can assure you that. And I'm asked to speak to
share my story at meetings a lot today. Next month, I'm going on vacation. I'm taking 10
days off of work going on vacation to Washington State with my friend and sponsor. My life
(02:14):
is just so much different today. And it's amazing. I've worked here now for 14 months.
I started as an RSS. When I left treatment this last time, I changed everything about
my life. I decided to take all the suggestions. And I arrived that I arrived there out of
desperation. I didn't do anything special. I was just so desperate and so much pain
(02:35):
and contemplating suicide again, that I recognized I needed to come back to treatment. And it
was really funny that I was calling and they told me that no beds available. And I ended
up reaching out to Vince in the middle of the night and he made a bed appear for me.
And I'm really grateful for that. And my life changed.
People who don't know Vince Douglas is a senior alumni treatment advocate and just a real
(03:03):
force at Bracebridge Hall. And he's been a blessing to our team and really helps a
lot of people get into recovery and get into treatment. And so I don't know, do you want
to say anything about Vince?
Well, I love that man. For one, ever since he was an employee here, he was like, oh,
good mentor for me. But then once I left here this last time and moved into our silver
(03:27):
living, the one I now manage, I was the second resident to ever live there. So it's special
to me. I've kind of come full circle. The house means a lot to me. But I was the second
resident there. I attended our PHP and our IOP, completed them here, got a home group,
got a sponsor, started working steps, doing all the things that had been suggested to
me for years and my life started getting better. I have never missed a day. I've never called
(03:49):
out. I've never been a second late. And for me, that is my track record. That is atypical.
Like that is not consistent with my track record. I was unemployable my whole life. And
not because I didn't want to be employed, but I just could not. I screwed up everything
everywhere. I could not. I just could not get anything right. And the addiction was the
(04:09):
source of my problems, but I did not recognize that at the time. And I was I spent most of
my life trying to arrange my trying to manipulate external variables, trying to arrange my outside
world to fix my insides. And, you know, it took me a very long time to realize that I
have to fix my internal condition, you know, work on my spiritual condition and the outside
(04:31):
falls into place. But I guess I'm just very grateful today. So I have my job, which means
a lot to me. I discovered purpose. I found purpose, which I never had. I drifted through
life aimlessly. And that always frustrated me because I have I've been very blessed and
I've had a decent education and I have talents and abilities and I had no passion, no ambition,
(04:54):
no drive. And I couldn't get anything right. I couldn't hold down the job. I had no follow
through on anything. And my life was just so different today. I have so much trust and
support from my employer from Bracebridge. I have minimal supervision. Like I have a
great deal of trust and autonomy. And that is from, you know, doing the next right thing
(05:15):
from demonstrating that I'm trustworthy and dependable. And that's all I believe the grace
of a loving God, the program I work Alcoholics Anonymous, but working a program of recovery
with a sponsor and the fellowship I found in the rooms and, you know, the recovery
community at large. But my life has just transformed and, you know, going on vacation, I was never
(05:37):
able to do that. I couldn't save money. I couldn't pay my bills and I just had no time.
I mean, everything else got in the way of my drinking and use. I couldn't have relationships,
no real meaningful relationships. Yeah, I couldn't hold down the job. I wasn't doing
service work for anybody because I had to focus on getting what I needed. You know, I
had no kind of, no kind of spiritual world at all. No higher power. No, you know, I was
(06:03):
just so lost. And I don't know, just kind of rambling now, but my life was just so good.
And I'm grateful. It's actually really funny. I guess I wanted to get to the importance of
like planting seeds, all the help I received over the years. Like you can, I think we can't
afford to underestimate the, you know, how important it is to plant a seed because so
(06:27):
many people tried to help me over the years, even when I didn't want it. And, you know,
I was at a meeting last weekend and there was a woman, she is sober, but she was struggling
because her husband that was at home drinking. And I was able to let her know that I met
her in that same meeting a few years prior. And I was drunk and I was crying and I wanted
(06:48):
to die. And she was very kind to me. And I remembered that. And I've never forgotten
that and little things like that. Like if she had treated me different that day, I might
not be here today. So like my story is full of things like that too. So I'm just really
grateful.
All of those moments.
Yeah.
All of those moments.
Yeah. So I've fallen, well, we can discuss this more, but you know, it talks about in
(07:09):
our literature, this program has transformed, you know, my biggest weakness into my biggest
weakness. It's only because of my addiction and my recovery that I'm able to help anybody,
that anybody wants to hear what I have to say, you know, I can see, I can start to appreciate
that it wasn't all for nothing. I can see the dots connecting in my life, seeing how
(07:30):
even the, you know, like the long version of the serenity prayer mentions accepting
hardship as the pathway to peace, I can see how it was all for my benefit, how things
weren't happening to me that were happening for me. And frankly, most of the hardship
in my life was my creation. So.
And the power of testimony, like,
Yeah, for sure.
Something now that you take away from that, that is beneficial to others because it's
(07:58):
hard for people. There's something very powerful. And I think what the Alumni Association does
and what we do as peer mentors and that peer to peer relationship, when you know somebody's
been where you've been, they've been through what you've been through, whether it's grief
or whether it's addiction or whether it's mental health issues or what all the things
(08:22):
that that we as humans go through. There's just that that connection that instant, okay,
I can trust there's a trust that's built. And I can listen to this guy because he knows
what it's like.
Yeah, I can remember my first exposure to meetings a very long time ago, years ago,
they were always helpful to me. I mean, it was I could connect, I could relate, you know,
(08:45):
I felt like they were telling my story. But, you know, it's only after this last time in
treatment that I really got all in. I don't know. For me personally, I had no success
dancing on the periphery of recovery, like you have to be all in like one foot in one
foot out did not work for me. I had to be fully committed. It is like the primary focus
of my life. And now the things I had to do for recovery that I didn't necessarily want
(09:08):
to do, they've just become my life. I like it. There are days exceptions where I might
not want to go to a meeting one day. But for the most part, I love what I do. You know,
I've met I have a lot of friends now. I've met so many beautiful people on this journey.
Yeah, I have a speaking commitment now inpatient, which is like the transformation to it's like
(09:29):
with any, any discipline or any habit that we incorporate into our lives, there's going
to be days when we're really excited and motivated to do it. And then there's going to be other
days where we do it because we know this is the right thing to do, whether we're like
or not, right? And I think there's a growth mindset in that. Like, that is true. When
(09:54):
I made a commitment to do when I left treatment this last time and I decided I made the commitment
to take suggestions, I made that commitment completely. So yeah, sometimes it's discipline.
I do what I have to do. It's today I'm responsible for my disease, right? It's like a diabetic
I use, you know, that's a good, good example that everyone will understand. Like once a
(10:19):
diabetic, you know, it's not their fault they're born with that disease. But once they have
been educated on the medications they have to take the diet, they have to follow, you
know, testing their blood sugar, like they are then responsible. And if they choose not
to address their disease, then they, they have to be willing to accept the consequences.
And that's the same today for my recovery. I know there's no more delusion or no more
(10:39):
denial. I know exactly what does what my disease is. I know what it requires. I need daily
treatment for my disease. And if I don't do it, I, you know, the consequences, you know,
it's my fault. And yes, I made that commitment. And to be honest, working at the house, it's
funny. I worked about two months as an RSS. And then I was given the opportunity to manage
(11:00):
the house and it was a bit overwhelming. I had never done that before. It's a household
of personalities. I was an early recovery myself. They, the clients were folks in early recovery
and maybe, you know, still had a long way to go.
A little bit about early recovery. And, and we have a lot of people that listen to this
podcast who are in early recovery or their family members trying to understand people
(11:26):
in early recovery. And I think we've learned more about post-acute withdrawal syndrome,
pause, and, and how, you know, 30 days in a treatment center or, you know, a quick detox
isn't, hasn't necessarily healed the brain and heals some symptoms. So talk a little
(11:50):
bit about that.
All right. So I'll try to remember your points. For one, I'd like to say, because I experienced
this myself for anyone who is like a, well, for an addict or alcoholic, maybe it's their
first time in treatment or for any family members, there is no cure. Like I had my
own father when I left treatment after 30 days. He said, you're all better, right? And,
you know, I said, no, absolutely not. And so I say that when I share here for people
(12:15):
who are here for the first time in treatment, there's, you know, you're not going to be
cured after 30 days. You are just getting started. This is barely scratching the surface.
For me, I was treated with kindness here. I wasn't judged. I was shown compassion, you
know, the people here loved me so I could love myself. I was given the medical care,
detox, the fed, but I was just getting the drugs and alcohol out of my system and learning
(12:37):
a little bit, but it's just a bare beginning. Like it is rehab is just the start. And for
me, it is true for me what they say in our recovery literature, like in the, in the big
book or in the program of NA for me, my drinking and drug use is a symptom. It is not, it is
not the problem itself. It was the solution to the disease I had until, you know, until
(13:04):
it didn't work. And then I couldn't live with alcohol and drugs and couldn't live without
them. And they no longer gave me any relief or comfort. So for me, I'm learning more about
myself as the time goes on. I think, you know, I think from a physical perspective, like
I think there is maybe a genetic predisposition and there's probably with chronic use or chronic
(13:26):
drinking, there's probably a threshold to cross maybe where my body, where I lose that
power to control how much I drink or drug. But if I never pick up that first one, that's
not an issue. My problem also, it's not just that I have a drinking and drug problem. I
had a sobriety problem, a living problem, my emotions. I was emotionally immature. I
(13:46):
had a horrible relationship with myself. I was, you know, you hear a lot in meetings,
people say they never felt comfortable in their own skin. They felt different. I always
felt less than. I had some, what do you call it, an inferiority complex. And there were
some, some events that happened. My life wasn't especially traumatic, but everyone experiences
(14:11):
trauma. I got in a car accident as a seven year old, my face went through a windshield
and I knocked some adult teeth out. So I'd fake teeth as a kid that caused me to be self
conscious and insecure. I had a brother that bullied me relentlessly. My parents were stressed
out, overworked, impatient. I was learned you don't ask for help because you get yelled
at, you know what I mean? And men on my side of the family were raised to be stoic and
(14:33):
obviously, well, not obviously, but that's, that is beginning to change. It's becoming
more acceptable for men to have feelings and voice them and stuff. But like the men in
my family grew up in a time where you just suck it up and you know, you just do what
you got to do and you don't, you know, you don't talk about your feelings. So, you know,
we did not talk about feelings. I did not ask for help. I learned to hide things and
(14:55):
be sneaky because I didn't want to get in trouble. These behaviors. I was already very
troubled long before I put a drink or drug in my body. So I believe there are certain
things that, you know, I was using the alcohol and drugs to medicate and I didn't realize
it then. My working theory lately is I used to, as a kid, I was incredibly anxious. None
(15:19):
I never knew what that was. I would bite my fingernails till they bled. Like a few years
ago, I was able to stop biting my nails, but I had that habit my whole life. So what I
think is as a kid, I was so uncomfortable, but that's the only way I had ever felt.
So I had no frame of reference. And then once I started altering my consciousness, there
was relief. So I think I was doing anything to not feel like me. And I can distinctly
(15:41):
remember a time where I would alter my consciousness. That was with marijuana at the time. I felt
as though I could not be sober. Like I would do anything to not be sober again.
You remember that first use, the first?
It wasn't the very first. I do remember the first use, but it wasn't the very first use,
but it was very early on as like an adolescent or young teenager where I would put a substance
in my body and I did not want to go back to my normal state. And I started displaying
(16:05):
behaviors that are uncommon to obtain money for marijuana. I was stealing, I was breaking
in the houses. Like once I really started to lose control.
From what age is this happening?
Yeah. So I'll run down like 12 or 13. I started smoking pot when I was 12, I think.
And was it just accessible? You had AC?
(16:26):
Yes. Some kids on my, I was playing youth football. I lived in Claim, Mondello at the
time and some kids on my youth football team, some friends of mine told me they could get
it. And I think part of it was at the time wanting to be cool, something I've always,
that's been another part of it. And I doubt I'm the only one, something, there's a mystique
to doing, you know, the rebellious thing or we're doing what is the taboo thing or something
(16:49):
attractive to me about being rebellious or being defiant. And most of us are defiant in
the extreme. So it started with marijuana. You know, I got caught a couple of times and
you know, took breaks because I was afraid of getting caught. I think I drank for the
first time when I was 12 or 13 as well. My brother and I got drunk at a friend's house,
(17:10):
got into my friend's mom's refrigerator and we drank beer. But honestly, I did not like
alcohol the first time. It made me, I had already tried marijuana and alcohol made me
feel nauseous and we ended up getting in trouble, getting caught and getting in trouble. And
I didn't really start drinking again. I was smoking marijuana, you know, here and there
and drinking very little. But then when, when I hit high school, things got really bad,
(17:36):
I would say. So I, I was in private school at the time. I should tell you, I have a,
my parents got divorced when I was young. So I have half siblings from my mother and
then I'm my father's only child. So I was living with my father in Claymont and he
was sending me to private school, Caravelle Academy in Bayer, Delaware. And I hated it.
(18:00):
And then in ninth grade, the opportunity arose for me to move in with my mom in Elton and
go to Northeast High with my siblings. So I jumped at that opportunity. And you know,
I met a small group of friends like me, they're kind of outcast or whatever we found. I found
my group and we were smoking marijuana. But I was still playing sports. I was going to
(18:21):
school. I was playing football. I wrestled and things were pretty good. But I don't,
I don't really know. I meant I would drink here and there too, like at parties, just
socially, but you know, off the rip immediately I drank, I drank to get drunk. And every time
I drank, it was too much and I was sick. It was a problem immediately. But I didn't particularly
enjoy it, but I would do it to fit in. But the marijuana, I had to be high all the time.
(18:45):
And my mental health too started to deteriorate in high school. And just slowly I started,
you know, started doing more of what I wanted to do. If I didn't want to be in school, I
didn't go.
As you look back, is there, you know, maybe somebody's listening and they've got a kid
and they've noticed, man, this guy's on the wrong track, you know, his friend group is
(19:09):
difficult, maybe starting some marijuana use. Is there anything that could have helped you
at that time?
I don't really know. Because for a long time, you know, people tried to help me and I just
wasn't hearing it. The denial was so strong and I was so delusional and I could not see
it. I mean, the signs were as clear as day, but everyone, everyone else was the problem.
(19:31):
So just leave me alone and let me do what I needed to do. Like I could not accept that
I was the problem. And that's funny. Because, you know, you learn that in recovery. I was
the problem where I was involved in everything bad that happened to me. And yeah, it was
never about the out, you know, it's not just, it's very important that I don't don't drink
(19:51):
or drug because I'm powerless over them, but it's not really about the alcoholic drugs,
you know, like today. Yeah, I have to keep that fresh in my mind, you know, complacency
kills. I have to remember I cannot drink or drug, but my energy is not dedicated to not
drinking or drugging that obsession that compulsion has been removed. I'm trying to develop spiritually
and be the most, you know, I'm trying to find out what I'm capable of. I spend my whole
(20:15):
life destroying myself and hamstring.
Yeah, and it's great because you were discussing the pause for months after I got out of treatment
and moved into the house. You know, I would be in the middle of a task and completely
spaced out and I would look around for clues and then I would see something that would
remind me of what I was doing. And now like my workload and the things I'm capable of
juggling and the stress I can handle. It's impressive. And you know, I have my moments
(20:40):
obviously, but I really genuinely want to see what I am capable of doing, you know, what
I am capable of becoming. If I stay out of my own way, I was in my own way the whole
time. And I thank God for saving me from myself. But you know, I'm continuing, I want to keep
growing professionally and spiritually and personally starting to, I'm still, I'm still
(21:01):
uncomfortable with people. I'm learning that. Like I mentioned, everything requires discomfort
because nothing changes if nothing changes. So learning how to socialize without depending
on drugs and alcohol.
I mean, comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Yeah, this and the speaking commitments I do and or when life just goes bad, like a few
months ago, I watched my grandfather die, watched him die. But I was sober and I was
(21:23):
there to be supportive of my family and I hope my family was there and it was as peaceful
as it could have been. And I would not have been there if I was drinking or using out
my, you know, I don't care. I'm not a materialistic guy. I don't care about money beyond what
I need it for her, you know, come the comfort it can provide, obviously, but like all my
bills are paid. They're on auto pay. I don't look at them. I don't have to question whether
(21:46):
the money's in the account.
Being able to go on vacation. I've worked really hard to have a good credit score now,
like everything. It's so it's just mind blowing what could happen, just me getting out of
the way. It took me a really long time to realize that I was the problem. And when I
started taking suggestions, even though I didn't want to do it at first, it was a massive
(22:07):
relief. I didn't have to think like for the first six months when I was living in the
house, I did not have to think I was I went to class every day. When it was time to go
back to my job, I went to work, paid my bills. I did my chore in the house. I went to meetings.
I called my sponsor. I met my sponsor to do step work. It was just the next great thing
and everything's laid out for me. I just took suggestions and lived one day at a time. It
(22:29):
really was that simple one day at a time, get to bed sober, do what I need to do and
my life just transformed.
So you're in high school. You graduate high school?
Nope. So yeah, so I stopped attending class like I would come in late every day and come
in high. And if I wanted to leave early, I would do exactly as I pleased. Like, for
(22:52):
instance, if you were my teacher sitting there in front of me, like you could not prevent
me from leaving. If I wanted to leave, I will get up and walk out of your class. I had a
horrible attitude and I was impulsive and selfish. I'm just doing exactly what I wanted.
And you know, my grades started to suffer. Sports, obviously they don't condone people
just not showing up to practice. And also I can remember my whole school life. I'm starting
(23:16):
to realize it more now. I was under a great deal of stress that whole time I was at Caravelle
Academy going, you know, the private school, I'm grateful for it now because I benefited
immensely from having that education. But I was under a great deal of stress, the pressure,
the long hours. I lived in Claymont. So getting to Bear, Delaware every day and then sports
and then getting home and the workload and the hiding and the forging, you know, forging
(23:41):
detentions and stuff. Because anytime I would get in trouble, I would hide it. It just became
and school was incredibly stressful for me because I wasn't, I was incapable of doing
the right things and I was always trying to hide, always trying to cover my tracks and
stuff. And then also other people had expectations of me and I never, my whole life I struggled
with that. I never, you know, I always thought a kid, you know, when you grow up, you have
(24:03):
a dream or an ambition, like there's something you want to do and I never had that. And I,
you know, and I think, you know, I'm not an exceptional person, but I'm reasonably intelligent.
I'm a capable guy and I had nowhere to direct it. I had no purpose, no direction whatsoever.
And I didn't like that. I was frustrating and my dad, you know, he, I was going to go
to the University of Maryland and I was going to play D one football and that was never
(24:27):
going to happen. Just frankly, and like my GPA was barely, you know, if I was passing,
it was just, you know, a 2.0 or whatever. And, you know, I wasn't, I'm not that gifted
physically. Like it was never going to happen. So other people had expectations of me and
I knew they weren't going to happen. And I felt the end of high school coming up on
me and the real world. And I was terrified. Again, like the same with the things in my
(24:51):
past that happened to me when I was young or the things that shaped me. Like I'm not
mad about it. It's just what happened. The same with, I was spoiled as a kid. Being
my, my father's only son, when I moved in with him, at a certain point I moved in with
him and he spoiled me rotten and he did it from a place of love and he was a young man
raising a kid doing the best he knew. So I'm not, not blaming him, but everything was done
(25:14):
for me. I had no responsibility. I was totally entitled, spoiled and incapable of doing anything
for myself. So when I was approaching the age where I was supposed to go out into the
world, I was terrified. And, you know, I was really stunted and, you know, abusing drugs
and alcohol beginning at such a young age. I really believe in that arrested development
stuff because even today I am emotionally stunted, you know, in a lot of ways I'm still
(25:39):
in a lot of ways I'm normal, a lot of ways on my head of the game, but in some ways I
am still very much, you know, stunted and working, you know, working to catch up.
And through that, take us, you know, how long was it after high school until 20 months
ago?
Right. So, um, yeah, so I started going wild. I wasn't attending classes, started skipping
(26:01):
sports practices. And then, um, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to remember all the
details because I had like 15 years of blurriness, but I remember I started, started stealing
money. At first it started because I had to get money for the weed to stay under the
influence. I did not want to be sober. So it started with, if I was unable to get money,
(26:23):
like allowance or whatever, I would, I started with stealing change from my mom. Like she
had a giant, one of those like five gallon jugs she would keep changing. It started with
that. Then progressed from there. I mean, at first when I started really getting into
theft beyond change, I think I was stealing from other people, but then it got to the
(26:46):
point where I thought it was acceptable to break into houses. So I remember I was buying,
I was in high school stealing a guy that I was buying marijuana from at the time. A
couple of friends of mine and I decided we would break into his house one day when he
was at work, he was, you know, a working man and had was always kind to me and not saying
it's okay to sell pot to high schoolers, but the guy never, he was always kind to me.
(27:09):
I decided when he's at work, you know, away from work one day, I would break into his
house and I stole some money from him, but I was unable to kick his door in. So I ended
up breaking a window and in my panic, I started tearing glass out of this window and my hands
are all scarred up as a result of that. But I ended up in the hospital for stitches basically
and they, I don't remember if they took sketches or if they take pictures, but they, they took
(27:32):
an image of my hands and then, you know, I guess there was a police report that matched
up. I believe they found a piece of my pinky in the gentleman's window and they, you know,
they brought me in for questioning. Nothing ever came of that, but I ended up, a few days
after that, I ended up getting in a fight with my mother because she was trying, she
(27:54):
was trying to set some limits. I was living in her house and I was acting like a crazy
person and she was trying to set some limits and I would not, I would not do, you know,
I would not do what she wanted. So she, I said I was going to leave the house and she,
I believe my stepdad was trying to let the air out of my tires so I could not leave the
(28:15):
house and I told him I was going to wrap the car around the tree and my mom called the
police, you know, and so they were looking for me, I guess to do a welfare check. They
ended up taking me to Union Hospital in Elkton. I ended up running out of there. Then they,
you know, the police caught up with me, brought me back, strapped me to the bed. Yeah, the
first time you felt suicidal? I wasn't suicidal. No, that was more of a, just an anger. It
(28:39):
was, I shouldn't have said it because, but I've made, I've made comments like that since
then that have caused me problems too. But no, I wasn't, I wasn't genuinely suicidal.
I was just, I was angry and I ended up in the Rockford Center in Delaware for a couple
weeks. I guess, you know, it's like a psych hospital and the part I was in was for troubled
(29:01):
kids and was given some medications and we were in classes, but I had, I did not care
what they had to say. I didn't want to be there and as soon as I left there, I dropped
out of high school and began a lot of unpleasant years. I ended up stealing, I mean, just to,
I'll try to give you the like concise version, but I ended up stealing from my dad and it's
(29:26):
all kind of a blur again, like I said, to put it in order chronologically, but I ended
up, I had an uncle in North Carolina, he works for the State Department, doesn't live in
North Carolina anymore, but he tried on a couple occasions to take me down there into
North Carolina with him and try to teach me. He's also in the like property development,
real estate and stuff, and he was trying to guide me and teach me his business and he
(29:48):
was, you know, willing to pay for me to go to school and stuff, but I was incapable.
I was not at a place mentally, I was not mature enough. There was nothing, I don't believe
that there was anything anyone could have done for me. I had to learn the hard way,
but I ended up stealing from my father somewhere around this area around 18 years old, roughly
stealing 500. I took his debit card, went to an ATM, took out 500 bucks. He actually
(30:10):
caught up with me and confronted me and I kept the money, but I was so ashamed and guilty.
I was estranged myself from my father for five years after that. I pretty much estranged
myself from my mom too. I was locked out of her house, but I was breaking in, stealing
camp quarters, you know, I would steal. I stole from my mom, stole from my grandparents.
(30:31):
I started couch surfing, bouncing around to a friend's house. I have a, my best friend
in high school. It's crazy because I'm my best friend in high school, the only one
in our group that would not touch any drugs, one to drink, one to smoke pot, and he ended
up becoming a heroin addict. He's in recovery now, but it's just crazy how many people
has touched. But his family took me in, you know, big family of limited means and they
(30:56):
took me in, fed me, clothed me, treated me like one of their kids. I did nothing to help
them at all. I did nothing to contribute. And then I stole pills from his sick father
and like got thrown out of there. But just the things that, you know, things I never
thought I would do and the things that people tell me today, that people tell me today,
I could never imagine you doing those things. And you know, it's not, it's not who I am.
(31:20):
I was just so sick. Yeah, I'm sorry, but it was just, it was years of that. I had a structured
settlement from the car accident I got in. So I figured out how to access that money.
I was supposed to get like 40 grand starting when I turned 18. I was supposed to get like
$10,000 a year for a few years. I found out how to, how to get that money. And I said,
(31:42):
I spent it all on cocaine. Ended up in North Carolina again with my uncle. He got me a
job with one of his friends. I ended up getting fired for doing cocaine on the job. Joined
the Marine Corps out of, you know, more like a last resort kind of thing. I had never had
any dreams of being in the military. But you know, after a while after boot camp of Paris
(32:03):
Island, I felt proud. I felt good, you know, I, I was clean and sober. They sent me home
for my 10 days of leave. First thing I do is go to my old friends and start doing cocaine
and have, you know, I nearly thought I was going to die. I ended up laying, laying in
the front yard in a friend's front yard, cold sweats, dry heaving, thinking, great, I'm
(32:24):
going to die on my 10 days leave for boot camp. My dad's going to hear that I overdosed
and died on cocaine. That didn't happen. You know, I ended up going out to 29 Palms out
in the Mojave Desert for training. I turned 21 when I was out there and started drinking.
It's perfectly acceptable in the military. It's part of the culture. Drinking is, you
(32:46):
know, it was perfectly okay for me to get drunk after work, show up at 5am drunk for
PT, go run eight miles, smoke a cigarette, then go on work the next day and repeat. But
you know, the drinking got out of hand. I had no idea how sick I was. I didn't, I still
hadn't, I, there's no way I would have even entertained the idea that I was an alcoholic,
but I was. So I'm at the bar every night or at the bowling alley drinking pictures. And
(33:12):
then I found out that, you know, I came across somebody who had drugs and you know, you put
it in front of me, I'm, you know, I was powerless. Somebody offered me some ecstasy. I took it
and then, you know, I started smoking marijuana, the cocaine, whatever, like, you know, at
that point. It's just the insanity of it. Like I had no intention of getting kicked
out of the military and didn't want to get caught. But there was no way I would not get
(33:35):
caught. And I did and was kicked out, given a other than honorable discharge from the
Marines. I worked, you know, I just had a million different jobs. I worked as a correctional
officer for a year, but then I ended it was a really good job. I was doing well for a
while, had a nice apartment. And then, you know, a year later, I am skinny as a rail.
(33:57):
I still have this job, but I stole, I'm stealing, you know, Adderall from inmates being booked.
I have a sink full of dirty dishes. There's no food in my fridge. I have no furniture in
my apartment, you know what I mean? Like living, living like an animal, even despite the fact
that I had a good job. And, you know, I would see people coming in off the streets as, as
(34:19):
inmates, people that I knew. And I'm, I'm there like a total fraud working as a correctional
officer while I'm an active cocaine addict. Like a lot of that kind of stuff. I've had
a million jobs. I've had a couple of different stints, two different stints in college. I
have two one year stints at community college and I had a 3.95 GPA. I'm not, you know, but
I would get restless, irritable, discontent, forget why I was there, get miserable and
(34:42):
quit. Yeah, either quit, get fired, you know, looking for geographical cures, looking for
the right job or the right girlfriend and always, it was just always the same and never
got any better.
I do your graphical cures and we hear this a lot like move out of where I'm at now and
I'm going to, you know, but it follows you, you follow you, right?
(35:05):
Exactly. Wherever you go, there you are. And that, you know, I didn't realize that, but
the, you know, maybe there's some merit to changing, you know, people, places and things.
I'm sure there is, you know, cause like they say, if you hang out in the barbershop, you
know, you're going to get a haircut eventually. So if I'm hanging out with people that are
doing drugs, you know, it's probably risky, but as far as,
But if you don't deal with the internal.
(35:27):
As far as like the people I was hanging out with, they did not make me use and the place
I was living in did not make me use and wherever I went, I was like,
And the people can have different names and different faces, but there can be the same
people, right?
That is true too. Yep. But everywhere I went, even the most remote places I found the drugs
I found the alcohol, you know, and some of my poor friends over the years, my mom thought
(35:51):
they were bad influences and nobody influenced me to do. Nobody made me put any drugs or
alcohol in my body.
About 14 years of just, it sounds exhausting.
It really was because there was a time, like I mentioned when I was young, there was a
time when I was doing some really, really bad things and I was kind of able to harden
(36:11):
my heart to it and I was just young and angry and I didn't really care as much. And then
I guess essentially I'm a good person.
So you know, I was raised, right? I come from a good family. I have good like values and
morals I believe, but you know, and I was living out of alignment with that. And you know,
that caused me a lot of distress and I remember reaching a certain point where I was really,
(36:34):
I was remorseful and I was ashamed of the person I'd become. I used to ask myself, like,
what have you become? But still, and I started encountering some like spiritual literature,
you know, that really resonated with me. But you know, so I started trying to act, you
know, I started trying to be a better person, but I still had this addiction, which I could
(36:56):
not have any kind of good life. You know, that was the main, that's the main challenge
of my life as I see it. It's been throughout there throughout my whole life. Like it is
the main obstacle of my life.
And I could not, as long as until that was addressed, I couldn't have any, any kind
of good life. I could not have healthy relationships. I couldn't have a healthy relationship with
myself. I couldn't have any kind of job or purpose or, you know, leisure activities.
(37:20):
It totally consumes me and possesses me and I've become the worst version of myself.
And so did you go through treatment? I know you said you were working in some meetings
from time to time.
Yeah. So what happened was, um, so I was living in New Hampshire, you know, the end, there's
a lot in between, but it doesn't, it doesn't really matter. Um, because all our stories
(37:42):
are essentially the same, I guess. But, um, like I was living in New Hampshire and I was
still doing the same things. Um, and, uh, drinking and driving, I drank and drove a lot.
And you know, it was so selfish and putting people at risk and stuff, but a lot of it,
I think I just kind of realized recently is that it was a place where I felt safe as,
(38:07):
as insane as that sounds, like a place where I felt like I could do, I could drink the
way I needed to or use the way I needed to. So I did a lot of drinking and driving and
you know, I'm not happy about that, but, um, I'm glad. Oh, thank God I didn't kill anybody,
but my mother was telling me, calling me on the phone, telling me, you know, you better
not be drinking and driving. I'm going to call the police and you know, telling me all
day and I just, I was so arrogant and so stubborn and you just could not tell me anything. Um,
(38:33):
and I was, you know, consequences did not scare me. Um, she did call the police and
they were looking for me all day, but they ended up catching up to me. I was passed out
in my car with the car running in the driver's seat, but I was passed out sleeping in the
car and they caught up to me and I was arrested, got a DUI and I went to my first inpatient
treatment center in New Hampshire. Um, the friendship house in Bethlehem, New Hampshire,
(38:57):
and I love that place. It was a great experience, but I was still not quite there yet. And I see
that when I come now to inpatient and you could never, you know, I could never know,
you could never know for sure. I've, people have, you know, once they, once it clicks and they get
it. Um, I don't know, but I just wasn't at a place yet where I was ready. You know, I wasn't
(39:18):
ready till I was ready. And then, you know, that's just kind of hard to describe. It wasn't my time yet,
but I did have a great experience. I learned a lot and I got my first exposure to AA.
You were talking about? Yeah, I was, I was not willing to do the, I still,
they refer to it in the big book as being beaten into a state of reasonableness. And some of the
(39:38):
language in the big book of AA is perfect because like that is what happened. It was totally, you
know, uh, they, there's a phrase, the gift of desperation and that like, I'm grateful for that
today. And some people, someone who was active or whatever, someone might, there are people out
there who will not be able to appreciate that when I say that I'm grateful for being an addict.
And I'm grateful for that desperation. Like it was a gift I kept doing exactly. I kept doing
(40:02):
things my way, struggling on my own until I got so desperate and so much pain that I would do
anything to not feel that because I was thinking about shooting myself. Um, and that's where I
needed to be. That was that jumping off place. Then things got easier. Um, they say it's kind of a
whatever a cliche thing or whatever, but in the 12 steps, they say the first step is the only one
(40:22):
you need to work perfectly. And I realized now that it took me all those years to work the first
step perfectly. So really, I was able to call myself an alcoholic or an addict before them,
but I did not truly believe my powerlessness that it would always be this way. You know,
they talk about that, that great obsession of every alcoholic or drug addict that will someday,
someday we're going to be able to figure out how to control it someday. I'll get this right.
(40:44):
Like I screwed it up last time, but I got it this time. It's insanity, but that finally has been
removed from me. Um, uh, but yeah, I reached a place of desperation and was able to truly surrender.
And you know, they talk about in recovery of this phenomenon that we addicts and alcoholics have.
I know I did for years. They called the built in forgetter. Like I would have a relapse and,
(41:07):
you know, stay sober for a couple of weeks or whatever. And, you know, start to forget about
how bad it was. You forget the pain, forget how awful it was. And you start, I would remember
the fond things, you know, remember the nostalgia and the good times I had and remember the comfort
or the joy or whatever. And I would fantasize about how, you know, oh, it's Christmas or it's,
it's Christmas time. I'm going to go home and have a, you know, a couple of drinks and watch
(41:30):
Christmas movies. I would build up this romantic fantasy in my head and, you know, it's all BS.
And so one of the, one of the many miracles that has happened to me is that built in forgetter has
been removed from me. Like I know, and I think it's, you know, they, they tell us we're in the
big book that says you get that daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my, on the
(41:51):
contingent, contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. If I do the work on my recovery
every day, I get that reprieve every day where I, you know, that insanity has been removed from me.
So it's been working and I'm going to keep doing what's working because I don't want to go back to
the life I had before I was promised my misery could be refunded, you know. Take me to that moment.
(42:12):
You walk in a meeting. You know, I think, you know, for people who haven't been there, for people who
don't understand suicidal ideation and thoughts of ending one's own life, you walk into a meeting.
No one knows that those thoughts, I mean, our thoughts are private for the most part, unless
(42:33):
we share them. Right. And you have this interaction with a woman that you say changed your life and
it's, you know, saved your life in a way. That was super cool. That was actually in Chester Town a
few years later. That was a local meeting. But yeah, at that point, that was, that may have been
after I'd already come here as a patient one time, but I just could not stop drinking. And I, it was
(42:56):
awful. Like I could not manage my life was in shambles. I could, you know, my work performance
was suffering. I couldn't attend work. I couldn't pay my bills. I was like driving. I was coming to
behind the wheel all the time or breaking down on the side of the road and, you know, coming out
of blackouts and breaking down in my car. You know, I ran out of gas on the Bay Bridge, like crazy
stuff. And it was real out of hand. And I was scared and I just could not stop. I could not
(43:20):
drink, stop drinking. I was waking up, you know, I'd be vomiting in my sleep. I would wake, you
know, drink and throw it up and have to keep drinking because I had to have it. Like it was
not an option. So if you vomit, you just, you got to drink more. It was, it was scary. I would
wake up and not know what time of day it was. I was missing time, you know, large portions of
days just missing. I was time-traveling. It was scary.
(43:40):
And these thoughts are flooding my mind.
Yeah. So I'm in there crying, drunk and just, I had no idea what to do. I just knew it was a
safe place and they understood. I had no idea what I was hoping to get out of it. I didn't,
I still didn't believe they could help me. I think I just wanted to not be alone.
And what does this woman say that was so, that you've remembered it all this time,
(44:03):
that it was a pivotal moment?
It wasn't anything major. She didn't say much to me. She was just kind to me, you know,
she was kind. She wasn't judgmental and she made sure I was safe because I, you know,
I think those three things you just summed up so much about what people can do. Be kind,
don't be judgmental and then make sure the person's safe.
(44:25):
Well, that's why I don't know. I don't know if you had to write, I mean, like,
a guide to helping people.
I'm just so, I'm passionate about this stuff because I don't know. I've hurt immensely. Like,
I know what it's like to pray that you don't wake up in the morning. Like, I just wanted to
die and I can remember the evolution of my prayers. Like, it started out the foxhole prayers
(44:46):
when I would be really hungover, hurting, you know, because I drink till it hurts and I would pray,
like, please just get me through this and I'll never do it again. And then, you know,
the insanity of alcoholism. I'm doing it a week later. So eventually my prayers got to the point
where, you know, pray, you know, please help me stop drinking. I swear I'll never do it again.
And then I would say to myself, like, who are you kidding? You know, you're going to do it again.
(45:06):
And then by the end, before I got sober this last time was please kill me. Like, my life was a
cruel joke. Like, I either helped me, I need to get better. I want to die. It wasn't, I've always
been scared to death my whole life. And I have not, I still have not, you know, I still haven't
fully accepted my mortality. And I think that saved my life in some ways. Another thing God did
for me to keep me from shooting myself when Vince told me he didn't do it.
(45:27):
And those can you just outline something very, very powerful. Be kind.
Yeah.
Open, don't be judgmental. And just make sure you can do what you can to make sure that person
is safe for one more day.
What's amazing to me is, like I said, the falling backwards into purpose as a result of
the magnetic and now, you know, he says we're, we're God's people. I believe, I believe he and I are
(45:54):
kind of in agreement in this that maybe some of us are put here to suffer so that we can help others.
And not to, you know, not saying we're exceptional or we're superheroes, but I believe that. And
you know, if, if somebody else, if all the suffering I went through, if I can then take that
and help somebody else not suffer, then that's a fair trade to me. Because I know what it's
like to hurt. I know what it's like to want to die. And if I can, if I can help someone get out of
(46:17):
that, I believe I wouldn't, I don't have enemies today. Yeah, I've no hate in my heart, but I
would not wish that on anybody. Nobody deserves to live the life back to alcoholism and addiction.
It is all treatment centers until the last one.
So I did one in New Hampshire, then I did that was in the DUI was in December of 2015. So that
would have been January 2016 in New Hampshire. And then I did three in one year here. But also
(46:45):
when I, there was a lot of years, there were a lot of years, as I mentioned, where I,
I didn't think it was the addiction. I didn't think I was truly an addict or an alcoholic. So I
was looking for all the right, the right mental health diagnosis. So, you know, there were times
I was in crisis beds in hospitals or, you know, like psych, psych stays or I was in the, you know,
emergency rooms. I just think what you're telling us is so powerful. And it gives a lot of hope to
(47:11):
people. You know, and I, you know, I go back to that not being judgmental, not saying, well,
he's done this three or four times. It's not, you know, just having that openness that maybe this
time it's the seed, maybe there is still hope. Sometimes it takes a while for someone to process
through these things. For some people, they come through one time and, you know, they get their
(47:36):
life back on track or, but for others, this is a struggle that, and we wouldn't be judgmental if,
in the same way for someone go back to your diabetes, you know, if someone was struggling
with getting their A1C and their blood sugars and, and they had times when it was higher and lower.
(47:58):
And we give them grace to get that settled out, right? And getting the right insulin
levels and getting the right diet in place. But when it comes to addiction, we can really
kind of hold that over people's heads the number of times that they seek help. And,
you know, I think we're getting better as a society as we learn more about the chronic nature of this
(48:22):
brain disease and calling it a brain disease. But, you know, I think your story is just so powerful.
Just one more thing that I think is really important, because I know we're running the time
went quicker than I thought it would. All right. So one thing I want to mention,
(48:42):
you made some very great points there, but like, I, I have learned you can never count somebody
out. Like it was a process, a process in my recovery of getting to the place where I was ready. So you
can never count someone out. Some of the people that you would think, you know, they were, had the
most behavioral problems, the people that someone might think would never get it. Those people
sometimes just get it one day. Like you can never count somebody out. But also it's important you
(49:06):
mentioned, like the process. I learned the hard way. Everything I did was the hard way. And it was
years of failing and failing and failing to get to that point of reasonableness. What scares me
today is with the fentanyl, they no longer have that luxury. I'm sure you know, being in the field,
they favor the term fentanyl poisoning now, as opposed to overdose. So it's, and all the, you
(49:27):
know, all the prescription drugs are fake, pressed up fentanyl pills now. So,
An 18 year old kid takes a portion, takes a part of a pill thinking they're taking a real pill,
and they're dead. There's no opportunity to learn they're gone forever. So it like, it is all, you
know, we're not up against the same drugs we were. So these, these record overdoses in the United
(49:52):
States every five minutes, someone is dying of a drug overdose. So during this time we've been
talking, you know, that's a dozen people that have died just in the US while we've been talking,
it's, it's serious. And thank you for bringing that point. And yeah, the supply is different.
The drugs are different. This is a, you know, there is no experimenting anymore.
(50:18):
It's, it's scary. Yeah, we're not bad people, we're sick people and so many of the addicts and
alcoholics I meet, people just like me that are just amazingly talented, beautiful, kind, you know,
gifted folks, all different walks of life, it does not discriminate at all, you know, and it
doesn't care about your socioeconomic status or your religious or political leanings, you know.
(50:39):
I think when it really hit me, I worked, I was a counselor at a jail treatment center.
And we had 17 male inmates, I went in every day and it was kind of like, go in there and
do therapy, do something, you know, everybody's kind of tossing their hands up going, we don't
know what to do, let's bring some counselors in and let them give a crack at this, you know.
(51:03):
And so we went in and I asked one day, I said, it kind of took a poll of these 17 male inmates
at the age of first use and of the 17, only two started using as an adult. The rest all
started using mostly in, you know, at the age of, I think the common age was 12, but it went down to
(51:28):
age three when they were given drugs by family members because they thought it was funny to
watch people run into the walls. And, you know, I think it's real easy to look at this problem and
and the addiction epidemic and just say, well, you know, these are, these are people who are
(51:49):
making that choice. But a lot of them made choices as children that have shaped their lives and their
brain development and to go back to being kind, not being so quick to be judgmental. And just
let's keep these people safe, let's do what it takes to help them get help until they can make
(52:11):
the choice for abstinence and to stay well themselves. I just, I think what you said is so powerful. So
thank you for that. And life is a lot more enjoyable that way too, because we, you know,
everywhere I go, I talk about it all the time, but it's all love and positivity almost without
exception there. You know, there are some exceptions, but I tell my coworkers, I love them, you know,
(52:32):
the people at meetings, my friends, like, I don't, I don't have to have that negativity in my life
today. It's all good stuff, you know what I mean? Try, yeah, focusing on the positive, trying to grow
and help people. And, you know, thank you, Tom, you're making a difference. I've seen you interact
with our alarms at meetings. I'm heavily involved. I may be, maybe have missed two or three alumni
meetings since I left treatment the last time. I go to all the events. I can, I love it.
(52:56):
I know. I've seen, I've seen your positivity and it's a real force. And thank you for that.
And thank you for your time today. This is, thank you for having me. It's a real pleasure.
I've really enjoyed it. So thank you. This is recovery month. We want to celebrate that and
just let people know that there's help available. If anyone you know, or you need help, please
(53:21):
reach out, call 1-833-RCA-ALUM. You can call any one of our coordinators. They are amazing.
Tom, I think you would agree. Yes, they are. For real special group of people, you can call them.
They will give you some peer to peer support and you need treatment. Maybe you just need some
(53:44):
outpatient, some additional support in your recovery journey. Let's get you some help today.
Reach out rcaalumni.com or 1-833-RCA-ALUM. And we wish you all the best and we hope to see you next time.
(54:20):
Thank you for listening to the Strength and Recovery podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
please tap the subscribe button and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners
(54:41):
and hope to reach more of you out there as we continue to share these incredible stories
of recovery. The RCA alumni team aims to provide a safe supportive environment for those in the
recovery community, regardless of their affiliation with RCA. We host a full calendar of virtual and
in-person meetings seven days a week, 365 days a year, as well as free sober events every month.
(55:09):
To learn more about what we do, find us at rcaalumni.com. Remember, if you or a loved one is struggling
with addiction, pick up the phone and dial 1-833-RCA-ALUM. Help is available 24-7. Listen to
another episode now or join us next time for the Strength and Recovery podcast.
Hello listeners, welcome to the Strength and Recovery podcast. I'm here with Tom Seward.
(00:22):
He is an alum of our Bracebridge Hall location and it is a beautiful facility. Can you tell
me in Earlville, Maryland, but Tom, tell us on the map, like where is that? Where are
you?
Yeah, I think we're at the top of the eastern shore of, you know, the Chesapeake Bay in
(00:44):
Maryland. But Bracebridge Hall, I think, I think I have roughly 600 acres or something
here. It's a massive property. They're right on the Sassapurass River, or is it the Bohemia
River or the Sassapurass River? I don't know. It's a gorgeous property. It's very beautiful,
remote Cecil County, nothing but farms around here in water, mostly.
(01:05):
A real gorgeous place.
It sure is. Very conducive to, I mean, it's peaceful. It's a good spot for, you know, for
someone to start their journey over and over.
Absolutely. Tell us a little bit about how you got connected to Bracebridge.
Okay. Well, full disclosure, I'm a little nervous. It's funny. I was just having a conversation
(01:29):
with some friends before we started. I've come to accept, I've learned in my recovery,
that everything that makes me grow today requires discomfort. That's the price I pay. So I'm
uncomfortable a lot today. And I'm just really grateful. You know, 20 months ago, I was a
patient here and I wanted to die. And today, my life has just changed so dramatically. I
(01:50):
mean, it's, I think miraculous is a fitting word. And, you know, 20 months ago, nobody
was asking me to appear on podcasts. I can assure you that. And I'm asked to speak to
share my story at meetings a lot today. Next month, I'm going on vacation. I'm taking 10
days off of work going on vacation to Washington State with my friend and sponsor. My life
(02:14):
is just so much different today. And it's amazing. I've worked here now for 14 months.
I started as an RSS. When I left treatment this last time, I changed everything about
my life. I decided to take all the suggestions. And I arrived that I arrived there out of
desperation. I didn't do anything special. I was just so desperate and so much pain
(02:35):
and contemplating suicide again, that I recognized I needed to come back to treatment. And it
was really funny that I was calling and they told me that no beds available. And I ended
up reaching out to Vince in the middle of the night and he made a bed appear for me.
And I'm really grateful for that. And my life changed.
People who don't know Vince Douglas is a senior alumni treatment advocate and just a real
(03:03):
force at Bracebridge Hall. And he's been a blessing to our team and really helps a
lot of people get into recovery and get into treatment. And so I don't know, do you want
to say anything about Vince?
Well, I love that man. For one, ever since he was an employee here, he was like, oh,
good mentor for me. But then once I left here this last time and moved into our silver
(03:27):
living, the one I now manage, I was the second resident to ever live there. So it's special
to me. I've kind of come full circle. The house means a lot to me. But I was the second
resident there. I attended our PHP and our IOP, completed them here, got a home group,
got a sponsor, started working steps, doing all the things that had been suggested to
me for years and my life started getting better. I have never missed a day. I've never called
(03:49):
out. I've never been a second late. And for me, that is my track record. That is atypical.
Like that is not consistent with my track record. I was unemployable my whole life. And
not because I didn't want to be employed, but I just could not. I screwed up everything
everywhere. I could not. I just could not get anything right. And the addiction was the
(04:09):
source of my problems, but I did not recognize that at the time. And I was I spent most of
my life trying to arrange my trying to manipulate external variables, trying to arrange my outside
world to fix my insides. And, you know, it took me a very long time to realize that I
have to fix my internal condition, you know, work on my spiritual condition and the outside
(04:31):
falls into place. But I guess I'm just very grateful today. So I have my job, which means
a lot to me. I discovered purpose. I found purpose, which I never had. I drifted through
life aimlessly. And that always frustrated me because I have I've been very blessed and
I've had a decent education and I have talents and abilities and I had no passion, no ambition,
(04:54):
no drive. And I couldn't get anything right. I couldn't hold down the job. I had no follow
through on anything. And my life was just so different today. I have so much trust and
support from my employer from Bracebridge. I have minimal supervision. Like I have a
great deal of trust and autonomy. And that is from, you know, doing the next right thing
(05:15):
from demonstrating that I'm trustworthy and dependable. And that's all I believe the grace
of a loving God, the program I work Alcoholics Anonymous, but working a program of recovery
with a sponsor and the fellowship I found in the rooms and, you know, the recovery
community at large. But my life has just transformed and, you know, going on vacation, I was never
(05:37):
able to do that. I couldn't save money. I couldn't pay my bills and I just had no time.
I mean, everything else got in the way of my drinking and use. I couldn't have relationships,
no real meaningful relationships. Yeah, I couldn't hold down the job. I wasn't doing
service work for anybody because I had to focus on getting what I needed. You know, I
had no kind of, no kind of spiritual world at all. No higher power. No, you know, I was
(06:03):
just so lost. And I don't know, just kind of rambling now, but my life was just so good.
And I'm grateful. It's actually really funny. I guess I wanted to get to the importance of
like planting seeds, all the help I received over the years. Like you can, I think we can't
afford to underestimate the, you know, how important it is to plant a seed because so
(06:27):
many people tried to help me over the years, even when I didn't want it. And, you know,
I was at a meeting last weekend and there was a woman, she is sober, but she was struggling
because her husband that was at home drinking. And I was able to let her know that I met
her in that same meeting a few years prior. And I was drunk and I was crying and I wanted
(06:48):
to die. And she was very kind to me. And I remembered that. And I've never forgotten
that and little things like that. Like if she had treated me different that day, I might
not be here today. So like my story is full of things like that too. So I'm just really
grateful.
All of those moments.
Yeah.
All of those moments.
Yeah. So I've fallen, well, we can discuss this more, but you know, it talks about in
(07:09):
our literature, this program has transformed, you know, my biggest weakness into my biggest
weakness. It's only because of my addiction and my recovery that I'm able to help anybody,
that anybody wants to hear what I have to say, you know, I can see, I can start to appreciate
that it wasn't all for nothing. I can see the dots connecting in my life, seeing how
(07:30):
even the, you know, like the long version of the serenity prayer mentions accepting
hardship as the pathway to peace, I can see how it was all for my benefit, how things
weren't happening to me that were happening for me. And frankly, most of the hardship
in my life was my creation. So.
And the power of testimony, like,
Yeah, for sure.
Something now that you take away from that, that is beneficial to others because it's
(07:58):
hard for people. There's something very powerful. And I think what the Alumni Association does
and what we do as peer mentors and that peer to peer relationship, when you know somebody's
been where you've been, they've been through what you've been through, whether it's grief
or whether it's addiction or whether it's mental health issues or what all the things
(08:22):
that that we as humans go through. There's just that that connection that instant, okay,
I can trust there's a trust that's built. And I can listen to this guy because he knows
what it's like.
Yeah, I can remember my first exposure to meetings a very long time ago, years ago,
they were always helpful to me. I mean, it was I could connect, I could relate, you know,
(08:45):
I felt like they were telling my story. But, you know, it's only after this last time in
treatment that I really got all in. I don't know. For me personally, I had no success
dancing on the periphery of recovery, like you have to be all in like one foot in one
foot out did not work for me. I had to be fully committed. It is like the primary focus
of my life. And now the things I had to do for recovery that I didn't necessarily want
(09:08):
to do, they've just become my life. I like it. There are days exceptions where I might
not want to go to a meeting one day. But for the most part, I love what I do. You know,
I've met I have a lot of friends now. I've met so many beautiful people on this journey.
Yeah, I have a speaking commitment now inpatient, which is like the transformation to it's like
(09:29):
with any, any discipline or any habit that we incorporate into our lives, there's going
to be days when we're really excited and motivated to do it. And then there's going to be other
days where we do it because we know this is the right thing to do, whether we're like
or not, right? And I think there's a growth mindset in that. Like, that is true. When
(09:54):
I made a commitment to do when I left treatment this last time and I decided I made the commitment
to take suggestions, I made that commitment completely. So yeah, sometimes it's discipline.
I do what I have to do. It's today I'm responsible for my disease, right? It's like a diabetic
I use, you know, that's a good, good example that everyone will understand. Like once a
(10:19):
diabetic, you know, it's not their fault they're born with that disease. But once they have
been educated on the medications they have to take the diet, they have to follow, you
know, testing their blood sugar, like they are then responsible. And if they choose not
to address their disease, then they, they have to be willing to accept the consequences.
And that's the same today for my recovery. I know there's no more delusion or no more
(10:39):
denial. I know exactly what does what my disease is. I know what it requires. I need daily
treatment for my disease. And if I don't do it, I, you know, the consequences, you know,
it's my fault. And yes, I made that commitment. And to be honest, working at the house, it's
funny. I worked about two months as an RSS. And then I was given the opportunity to manage
(11:00):
the house and it was a bit overwhelming. I had never done that before. It's a household
of personalities. I was an early recovery myself. They, the clients were folks in early recovery
and maybe, you know, still had a long way to go.
A little bit about early recovery. And, and we have a lot of people that listen to this
podcast who are in early recovery or their family members trying to understand people
(11:26):
in early recovery. And I think we've learned more about post-acute withdrawal syndrome,
pause, and, and how, you know, 30 days in a treatment center or, you know, a quick detox
isn't, hasn't necessarily healed the brain and heals some symptoms. So talk a little
(11:50):
bit about that.
All right. So I'll try to remember your points. For one, I'd like to say, because I experienced
this myself for anyone who is like a, well, for an addict or alcoholic, maybe it's their
first time in treatment or for any family members, there is no cure. Like I had my
own father when I left treatment after 30 days. He said, you're all better, right? And,
you know, I said, no, absolutely not. And so I say that when I share here for people
(12:15):
who are here for the first time in treatment, there's, you know, you're not going to be
cured after 30 days. You are just getting started. This is barely scratching the surface.
For me, I was treated with kindness here. I wasn't judged. I was shown compassion, you
know, the people here loved me so I could love myself. I was given the medical care,
detox, the fed, but I was just getting the drugs and alcohol out of my system and learning
(12:37):
a little bit, but it's just a bare beginning. Like it is rehab is just the start. And for
me, it is true for me what they say in our recovery literature, like in the, in the big
book or in the program of NA for me, my drinking and drug use is a symptom. It is not, it is
not the problem itself. It was the solution to the disease I had until, you know, until
(13:04):
it didn't work. And then I couldn't live with alcohol and drugs and couldn't live without
them. And they no longer gave me any relief or comfort. So for me, I'm learning more about
myself as the time goes on. I think, you know, I think from a physical perspective, like
I think there is maybe a genetic predisposition and there's probably with chronic use or chronic
(13:26):
drinking, there's probably a threshold to cross maybe where my body, where I lose that
power to control how much I drink or drug. But if I never pick up that first one, that's
not an issue. My problem also, it's not just that I have a drinking and drug problem. I
had a sobriety problem, a living problem, my emotions. I was emotionally immature. I
(13:46):
had a horrible relationship with myself. I was, you know, you hear a lot in meetings,
people say they never felt comfortable in their own skin. They felt different. I always
felt less than. I had some, what do you call it, an inferiority complex. And there were
some, some events that happened. My life wasn't especially traumatic, but everyone experiences
(14:11):
trauma. I got in a car accident as a seven year old, my face went through a windshield
and I knocked some adult teeth out. So I'd fake teeth as a kid that caused me to be self
conscious and insecure. I had a brother that bullied me relentlessly. My parents were stressed
out, overworked, impatient. I was learned you don't ask for help because you get yelled
at, you know what I mean? And men on my side of the family were raised to be stoic and
(14:33):
obviously, well, not obviously, but that's, that is beginning to change. It's becoming
more acceptable for men to have feelings and voice them and stuff. But like the men in
my family grew up in a time where you just suck it up and you know, you just do what
you got to do and you don't, you know, you don't talk about your feelings. So, you know,
we did not talk about feelings. I did not ask for help. I learned to hide things and
(14:55):
be sneaky because I didn't want to get in trouble. These behaviors. I was already very
troubled long before I put a drink or drug in my body. So I believe there are certain
things that, you know, I was using the alcohol and drugs to medicate and I didn't realize
it then. My working theory lately is I used to, as a kid, I was incredibly anxious. None
(15:19):
I never knew what that was. I would bite my fingernails till they bled. Like a few years
ago, I was able to stop biting my nails, but I had that habit my whole life. So what I
think is as a kid, I was so uncomfortable, but that's the only way I had ever felt.
So I had no frame of reference. And then once I started altering my consciousness, there
was relief. So I think I was doing anything to not feel like me. And I can distinctly
(15:41):
remember a time where I would alter my consciousness. That was with marijuana at the time. I felt
as though I could not be sober. Like I would do anything to not be sober again.
You remember that first use, the first?
It wasn't the very first. I do remember the first use, but it wasn't the very first use,
but it was very early on as like an adolescent or young teenager where I would put a substance
in my body and I did not want to go back to my normal state. And I started displaying
(16:05):
behaviors that are uncommon to obtain money for marijuana. I was stealing, I was breaking
in the houses. Like once I really started to lose control.
From what age is this happening?
Yeah. So I'll run down like 12 or 13. I started smoking pot when I was 12, I think.
And was it just accessible? You had AC?
(16:26):
Yes. Some kids on my, I was playing youth football. I lived in Claim, Mondello at the
time and some kids on my youth football team, some friends of mine told me they could get
it. And I think part of it was at the time wanting to be cool, something I've always,
that's been another part of it. And I doubt I'm the only one, something, there's a mystique
to doing, you know, the rebellious thing or we're doing what is the taboo thing or something
(16:49):
attractive to me about being rebellious or being defiant. And most of us are defiant in
the extreme. So it started with marijuana. You know, I got caught a couple of times and
you know, took breaks because I was afraid of getting caught. I think I drank for the
first time when I was 12 or 13 as well. My brother and I got drunk at a friend's house,
(17:10):
got into my friend's mom's refrigerator and we drank beer. But honestly, I did not like
alcohol the first time. It made me, I had already tried marijuana and alcohol made me
feel nauseous and we ended up getting in trouble, getting caught and getting in trouble. And
I didn't really start drinking again. I was smoking marijuana, you know, here and there
and drinking very little. But then when, when I hit high school, things got really bad,
(17:36):
I would say. So I, I was in private school at the time. I should tell you, I have a,
my parents got divorced when I was young. So I have half siblings from my mother and
then I'm my father's only child. So I was living with my father in Claymont and he
was sending me to private school, Caravelle Academy in Bayer, Delaware. And I hated it.
(18:00):
And then in ninth grade, the opportunity arose for me to move in with my mom in Elton and
go to Northeast High with my siblings. So I jumped at that opportunity. And you know,
I met a small group of friends like me, they're kind of outcast or whatever we found. I found
my group and we were smoking marijuana. But I was still playing sports. I was going to
(18:21):
school. I was playing football. I wrestled and things were pretty good. But I don't,
I don't really know. I meant I would drink here and there too, like at parties, just
socially, but you know, off the rip immediately I drank, I drank to get drunk. And every time
I drank, it was too much and I was sick. It was a problem immediately. But I didn't particularly
enjoy it, but I would do it to fit in. But the marijuana, I had to be high all the time.
(18:45):
And my mental health too started to deteriorate in high school. And just slowly I started,
you know, started doing more of what I wanted to do. If I didn't want to be in school, I
didn't go.
As you look back, is there, you know, maybe somebody's listening and they've got a kid
and they've noticed, man, this guy's on the wrong track, you know, his friend group is
(19:09):
difficult, maybe starting some marijuana use. Is there anything that could have helped you
at that time?
I don't really know. Because for a long time, you know, people tried to help me and I just
wasn't hearing it. The denial was so strong and I was so delusional and I could not see
it. I mean, the signs were as clear as day, but everyone, everyone else was the problem.
(19:31):
So just leave me alone and let me do what I needed to do. Like I could not accept that
I was the problem. And that's funny. Because, you know, you learn that in recovery. I was
the problem where I was involved in everything bad that happened to me. And yeah, it was
never about the out, you know, it's not just, it's very important that I don't don't drink
(19:51):
or drug because I'm powerless over them, but it's not really about the alcoholic drugs,
you know, like today. Yeah, I have to keep that fresh in my mind, you know, complacency
kills. I have to remember I cannot drink or drug, but my energy is not dedicated to not
drinking or drugging that obsession that compulsion has been removed. I'm trying to develop spiritually
and be the most, you know, I'm trying to find out what I'm capable of. I spend my whole
(20:15):
life destroying myself and hamstring.
Yeah, and it's great because you were discussing the pause for months after I got out of treatment
and moved into the house. You know, I would be in the middle of a task and completely
spaced out and I would look around for clues and then I would see something that would
remind me of what I was doing. And now like my workload and the things I'm capable of
juggling and the stress I can handle. It's impressive. And you know, I have my moments
(20:40):
obviously, but I really genuinely want to see what I am capable of doing, you know, what
I am capable of becoming. If I stay out of my own way, I was in my own way the whole
time. And I thank God for saving me from myself. But you know, I'm continuing, I want to keep
growing professionally and spiritually and personally starting to, I'm still, I'm still
(21:01):
uncomfortable with people. I'm learning that. Like I mentioned, everything requires discomfort
because nothing changes if nothing changes. So learning how to socialize without depending
on drugs and alcohol.
I mean, comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Yeah, this and the speaking commitments I do and or when life just goes bad, like a few
months ago, I watched my grandfather die, watched him die. But I was sober and I was
(21:23):
there to be supportive of my family and I hope my family was there and it was as peaceful
as it could have been. And I would not have been there if I was drinking or using out
my, you know, I don't care. I'm not a materialistic guy. I don't care about money beyond what
I need it for her, you know, come the comfort it can provide, obviously, but like all my
bills are paid. They're on auto pay. I don't look at them. I don't have to question whether
(21:46):
the money's in the account.
Being able to go on vacation. I've worked really hard to have a good credit score now,
like everything. It's so it's just mind blowing what could happen, just me getting out of
the way. It took me a really long time to realize that I was the problem. And when I
started taking suggestions, even though I didn't want to do it at first, it was a massive
(22:07):
relief. I didn't have to think like for the first six months when I was living in the
house, I did not have to think I was I went to class every day. When it was time to go
back to my job, I went to work, paid my bills. I did my chore in the house. I went to meetings.
I called my sponsor. I met my sponsor to do step work. It was just the next great thing
and everything's laid out for me. I just took suggestions and lived one day at a time. It
(22:29):
really was that simple one day at a time, get to bed sober, do what I need to do and
my life just transformed.
So you're in high school. You graduate high school?
Nope. So yeah, so I stopped attending class like I would come in late every day and come
in high. And if I wanted to leave early, I would do exactly as I pleased. Like, for
(22:52):
instance, if you were my teacher sitting there in front of me, like you could not prevent
me from leaving. If I wanted to leave, I will get up and walk out of your class. I had a
horrible attitude and I was impulsive and selfish. I'm just doing exactly what I wanted.
And you know, my grades started to suffer. Sports, obviously they don't condone people
just not showing up to practice. And also I can remember my whole school life. I'm starting
(23:16):
to realize it more now. I was under a great deal of stress that whole time I was at Caravelle
Academy going, you know, the private school, I'm grateful for it now because I benefited
immensely from having that education. But I was under a great deal of stress, the pressure,
the long hours. I lived in Claymont. So getting to Bear, Delaware every day and then sports
and then getting home and the workload and the hiding and the forging, you know, forging
(23:41):
detentions and stuff. Because anytime I would get in trouble, I would hide it. It just became
and school was incredibly stressful for me because I wasn't, I was incapable of doing
the right things and I was always trying to hide, always trying to cover my tracks and
stuff. And then also other people had expectations of me and I never, my whole life I struggled
with that. I never, you know, I always thought a kid, you know, when you grow up, you have
(24:03):
a dream or an ambition, like there's something you want to do and I never had that. And I,
you know, and I think, you know, I'm not an exceptional person, but I'm reasonably intelligent.
I'm a capable guy and I had nowhere to direct it. I had no purpose, no direction whatsoever.
And I didn't like that. I was frustrating and my dad, you know, he, I was going to go
to the University of Maryland and I was going to play D one football and that was never
(24:27):
going to happen. Just frankly, and like my GPA was barely, you know, if I was passing,
it was just, you know, a 2.0 or whatever. And, you know, I wasn't, I'm not that gifted
physically. Like it was never going to happen. So other people had expectations of me and
I knew they weren't going to happen. And I felt the end of high school coming up on
me and the real world. And I was terrified. Again, like the same with the things in my
(24:51):
past that happened to me when I was young or the things that shaped me. Like I'm not
mad about it. It's just what happened. The same with, I was spoiled as a kid. Being
my, my father's only son, when I moved in with him, at a certain point I moved in with
him and he spoiled me rotten and he did it from a place of love and he was a young man
raising a kid doing the best he knew. So I'm not, not blaming him, but everything was done
(25:14):
for me. I had no responsibility. I was totally entitled, spoiled and incapable of doing anything
for myself. So when I was approaching the age where I was supposed to go out into the
world, I was terrified. And, you know, I was really stunted and, you know, abusing drugs
and alcohol beginning at such a young age. I really believe in that arrested development
stuff because even today I am emotionally stunted, you know, in a lot of ways I'm still
(25:39):
in a lot of ways I'm normal, a lot of ways on my head of the game, but in some ways I
am still very much, you know, stunted and working, you know, working to catch up.
And through that, take us, you know, how long was it after high school until 20 months
ago?
Right. So, um, yeah, so I started going wild. I wasn't attending classes, started skipping
(26:01):
sports practices. And then, um, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to remember all the
details because I had like 15 years of blurriness, but I remember I started, started stealing
money. At first it started because I had to get money for the weed to stay under the
influence. I did not want to be sober. So it started with, if I was unable to get money,
(26:23):
like allowance or whatever, I would, I started with stealing change from my mom. Like she
had a giant, one of those like five gallon jugs she would keep changing. It started with
that. Then progressed from there. I mean, at first when I started really getting into
theft beyond change, I think I was stealing from other people, but then it got to the
(26:46):
point where I thought it was acceptable to break into houses. So I remember I was buying,
I was in high school stealing a guy that I was buying marijuana from at the time. A
couple of friends of mine and I decided we would break into his house one day when he
was at work, he was, you know, a working man and had was always kind to me and not saying
it's okay to sell pot to high schoolers, but the guy never, he was always kind to me.
(27:09):
I decided when he's at work, you know, away from work one day, I would break into his
house and I stole some money from him, but I was unable to kick his door in. So I ended
up breaking a window and in my panic, I started tearing glass out of this window and my hands
are all scarred up as a result of that. But I ended up in the hospital for stitches basically
and they, I don't remember if they took sketches or if they take pictures, but they, they took
(27:32):
an image of my hands and then, you know, I guess there was a police report that matched
up. I believe they found a piece of my pinky in the gentleman's window and they, you know,
they brought me in for questioning. Nothing ever came of that, but I ended up, a few days
after that, I ended up getting in a fight with my mother because she was trying, she
(27:54):
was trying to set some limits. I was living in her house and I was acting like a crazy
person and she was trying to set some limits and I would not, I would not do, you know,
I would not do what she wanted. So she, I said I was going to leave the house and she,
I believe my stepdad was trying to let the air out of my tires so I could not leave the
(28:15):
house and I told him I was going to wrap the car around the tree and my mom called the
police, you know, and so they were looking for me, I guess to do a welfare check. They
ended up taking me to Union Hospital in Elkton. I ended up running out of there. Then they,
you know, the police caught up with me, brought me back, strapped me to the bed. Yeah, the
first time you felt suicidal? I wasn't suicidal. No, that was more of a, just an anger. It
(28:39):
was, I shouldn't have said it because, but I've made, I've made comments like that since
then that have caused me problems too. But no, I wasn't, I wasn't genuinely suicidal.
I was just, I was angry and I ended up in the Rockford Center in Delaware for a couple
weeks. I guess, you know, it's like a psych hospital and the part I was in was for troubled
(29:01):
kids and was given some medications and we were in classes, but I had, I did not care
what they had to say. I didn't want to be there and as soon as I left there, I dropped
out of high school and began a lot of unpleasant years. I ended up stealing, I mean, just to,
I'll try to give you the like concise version, but I ended up stealing from my dad and it's
(29:26):
all kind of a blur again, like I said, to put it in order chronologically, but I ended
up, I had an uncle in North Carolina, he works for the State Department, doesn't live in
North Carolina anymore, but he tried on a couple occasions to take me down there into
North Carolina with him and try to teach me. He's also in the like property development,
real estate and stuff, and he was trying to guide me and teach me his business and he
(29:48):
was, you know, willing to pay for me to go to school and stuff, but I was incapable.
I was not at a place mentally, I was not mature enough. There was nothing, I don't believe
that there was anything anyone could have done for me. I had to learn the hard way,
but I ended up stealing from my father somewhere around this area around 18 years old, roughly
stealing 500. I took his debit card, went to an ATM, took out 500 bucks. He actually
(30:10):
caught up with me and confronted me and I kept the money, but I was so ashamed and guilty.
I was estranged myself from my father for five years after that. I pretty much estranged
myself from my mom too. I was locked out of her house, but I was breaking in, stealing
camp quarters, you know, I would steal. I stole from my mom, stole from my grandparents.
(30:31):
I started couch surfing, bouncing around to a friend's house. I have a, my best friend
in high school. It's crazy because I'm my best friend in high school, the only one
in our group that would not touch any drugs, one to drink, one to smoke pot, and he ended
up becoming a heroin addict. He's in recovery now, but it's just crazy how many people
has touched. But his family took me in, you know, big family of limited means and they
(30:56):
took me in, fed me, clothed me, treated me like one of their kids. I did nothing to help
them at all. I did nothing to contribute. And then I stole pills from his sick father
and like got thrown out of there. But just the things that, you know, things I never
thought I would do and the things that people tell me today, that people tell me today,
I could never imagine you doing those things. And you know, it's not, it's not who I am.
(31:20):
I was just so sick. Yeah, I'm sorry, but it was just, it was years of that. I had a structured
settlement from the car accident I got in. So I figured out how to access that money.
I was supposed to get like 40 grand starting when I turned 18. I was supposed to get like
$10,000 a year for a few years. I found out how to, how to get that money. And I said,
(31:42):
I spent it all on cocaine. Ended up in North Carolina again with my uncle. He got me a
job with one of his friends. I ended up getting fired for doing cocaine on the job. Joined
the Marine Corps out of, you know, more like a last resort kind of thing. I had never had
any dreams of being in the military. But you know, after a while after boot camp of Paris
(32:03):
Island, I felt proud. I felt good, you know, I, I was clean and sober. They sent me home
for my 10 days of leave. First thing I do is go to my old friends and start doing cocaine
and have, you know, I nearly thought I was going to die. I ended up laying, laying in
the front yard in a friend's front yard, cold sweats, dry heaving, thinking, great, I'm
(32:24):
going to die on my 10 days leave for boot camp. My dad's going to hear that I overdosed
and died on cocaine. That didn't happen. You know, I ended up going out to 29 Palms out
in the Mojave Desert for training. I turned 21 when I was out there and started drinking.
It's perfectly acceptable in the military. It's part of the culture. Drinking is, you
(32:46):
know, it was perfectly okay for me to get drunk after work, show up at 5am drunk for
PT, go run eight miles, smoke a cigarette, then go on work the next day and repeat. But
you know, the drinking got out of hand. I had no idea how sick I was. I didn't, I still
hadn't, I, there's no way I would have even entertained the idea that I was an alcoholic,
but I was. So I'm at the bar every night or at the bowling alley drinking pictures. And
(33:12):
then I found out that, you know, I came across somebody who had drugs and you know, you put
it in front of me, I'm, you know, I was powerless. Somebody offered me some ecstasy. I took it
and then, you know, I started smoking marijuana, the cocaine, whatever, like, you know, at
that point. It's just the insanity of it. Like I had no intention of getting kicked
out of the military and didn't want to get caught. But there was no way I would not get
(33:35):
caught. And I did and was kicked out, given a other than honorable discharge from the
Marines. I worked, you know, I just had a million different jobs. I worked as a correctional
officer for a year, but then I ended it was a really good job. I was doing well for a
while, had a nice apartment. And then, you know, a year later, I am skinny as a rail.
(33:57):
I still have this job, but I stole, I'm stealing, you know, Adderall from inmates being booked.
I have a sink full of dirty dishes. There's no food in my fridge. I have no furniture in
my apartment, you know what I mean? Like living, living like an animal, even despite the fact
that I had a good job. And, you know, I would see people coming in off the streets as, as
(34:19):
inmates, people that I knew. And I'm, I'm there like a total fraud working as a correctional
officer while I'm an active cocaine addict. Like a lot of that kind of stuff. I've had
a million jobs. I've had a couple of different stints, two different stints in college. I
have two one year stints at community college and I had a 3.95 GPA. I'm not, you know, but
I would get restless, irritable, discontent, forget why I was there, get miserable and
(34:42):
quit. Yeah, either quit, get fired, you know, looking for geographical cures, looking for
the right job or the right girlfriend and always, it was just always the same and never
got any better.
I do your graphical cures and we hear this a lot like move out of where I'm at now and
I'm going to, you know, but it follows you, you follow you, right?
(35:05):
Exactly. Wherever you go, there you are. And that, you know, I didn't realize that, but
the, you know, maybe there's some merit to changing, you know, people, places and things.
I'm sure there is, you know, cause like they say, if you hang out in the barbershop, you
know, you're going to get a haircut eventually. So if I'm hanging out with people that are
doing drugs, you know, it's probably risky, but as far as,
But if you don't deal with the internal.
(35:27):
As far as like the people I was hanging out with, they did not make me use and the place
I was living in did not make me use and wherever I went, I was like,
And the people can have different names and different faces, but there can be the same
people, right?
That is true too. Yep. But everywhere I went, even the most remote places I found the drugs
I found the alcohol, you know, and some of my poor friends over the years, my mom thought
(35:51):
they were bad influences and nobody influenced me to do. Nobody made me put any drugs or
alcohol in my body.
About 14 years of just, it sounds exhausting.
It really was because there was a time, like I mentioned when I was young, there was a
time when I was doing some really, really bad things and I was kind of able to harden
(36:11):
my heart to it and I was just young and angry and I didn't really care as much. And then
I guess essentially I'm a good person.
So you know, I was raised, right? I come from a good family. I have good like values and
morals I believe, but you know, and I was living out of alignment with that. And you know,
that caused me a lot of distress and I remember reaching a certain point where I was really,
(36:34):
I was remorseful and I was ashamed of the person I'd become. I used to ask myself, like,
what have you become? But still, and I started encountering some like spiritual literature,
you know, that really resonated with me. But you know, so I started trying to act, you
know, I started trying to be a better person, but I still had this addiction, which I could
(36:56):
not have any kind of good life. You know, that was the main, that's the main challenge
of my life as I see it. It's been throughout there throughout my whole life. Like it is
the main obstacle of my life.
And I could not, as long as until that was addressed, I couldn't have any, any kind
of good life. I could not have healthy relationships. I couldn't have a healthy relationship with
myself. I couldn't have any kind of job or purpose or, you know, leisure activities.
(37:20):
It totally consumes me and possesses me and I've become the worst version of myself.
And so did you go through treatment? I know you said you were working in some meetings
from time to time.
Yeah. So what happened was, um, so I was living in New Hampshire, you know, the end, there's
a lot in between, but it doesn't, it doesn't really matter. Um, because all our stories
(37:42):
are essentially the same, I guess. But, um, like I was living in New Hampshire and I was
still doing the same things. Um, and, uh, drinking and driving, I drank and drove a lot.
And you know, it was so selfish and putting people at risk and stuff, but a lot of it,
I think I just kind of realized recently is that it was a place where I felt safe as,
(38:07):
as insane as that sounds, like a place where I felt like I could do, I could drink the
way I needed to or use the way I needed to. So I did a lot of drinking and driving and
you know, I'm not happy about that, but, um, I'm glad. Oh, thank God I didn't kill anybody,
but my mother was telling me, calling me on the phone, telling me, you know, you better
not be drinking and driving. I'm going to call the police and you know, telling me all
day and I just, I was so arrogant and so stubborn and you just could not tell me anything. Um,
(38:33):
and I was, you know, consequences did not scare me. Um, she did call the police and
they were looking for me all day, but they ended up catching up to me. I was passed out
in my car with the car running in the driver's seat, but I was passed out sleeping in the
car and they caught up to me and I was arrested, got a DUI and I went to my first inpatient
treatment center in New Hampshire. Um, the friendship house in Bethlehem, New Hampshire,
(38:57):
and I love that place. It was a great experience, but I was still not quite there yet. And I see
that when I come now to inpatient and you could never, you know, I could never know,
you could never know for sure. I've, people have, you know, once they, once it clicks and they get
it. Um, I don't know, but I just wasn't at a place yet where I was ready. You know, I wasn't
(39:18):
ready till I was ready. And then, you know, that's just kind of hard to describe. It wasn't my time yet,
but I did have a great experience. I learned a lot and I got my first exposure to AA.
You were talking about? Yeah, I was, I was not willing to do the, I still,
they refer to it in the big book as being beaten into a state of reasonableness. And some of the
(39:38):
language in the big book of AA is perfect because like that is what happened. It was totally, you
know, uh, they, there's a phrase, the gift of desperation and that like, I'm grateful for that
today. And some people, someone who was active or whatever, someone might, there are people out
there who will not be able to appreciate that when I say that I'm grateful for being an addict.
And I'm grateful for that desperation. Like it was a gift I kept doing exactly. I kept doing
(40:02):
things my way, struggling on my own until I got so desperate and so much pain that I would do
anything to not feel that because I was thinking about shooting myself. Um, and that's where I
needed to be. That was that jumping off place. Then things got easier. Um, they say it's kind of a
whatever a cliche thing or whatever, but in the 12 steps, they say the first step is the only one
(40:22):
you need to work perfectly. And I realized now that it took me all those years to work the first
step perfectly. So really, I was able to call myself an alcoholic or an addict before them,
but I did not truly believe my powerlessness that it would always be this way. You know,
they talk about that, that great obsession of every alcoholic or drug addict that will someday,
someday we're going to be able to figure out how to control it someday. I'll get this right.
(40:44):
Like I screwed it up last time, but I got it this time. It's insanity, but that finally has been
removed from me. Um, uh, but yeah, I reached a place of desperation and was able to truly surrender.
And you know, they talk about in recovery of this phenomenon that we addicts and alcoholics have.
I know I did for years. They called the built in forgetter. Like I would have a relapse and,
(41:07):
you know, stay sober for a couple of weeks or whatever. And, you know, start to forget about
how bad it was. You forget the pain, forget how awful it was. And you start, I would remember
the fond things, you know, remember the nostalgia and the good times I had and remember the comfort
or the joy or whatever. And I would fantasize about how, you know, oh, it's Christmas or it's,
it's Christmas time. I'm going to go home and have a, you know, a couple of drinks and watch
(41:30):
Christmas movies. I would build up this romantic fantasy in my head and, you know, it's all BS.
And so one of the, one of the many miracles that has happened to me is that built in forgetter has
been removed from me. Like I know, and I think it's, you know, they, they tell us we're in the
big book that says you get that daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my, on the
(41:51):
contingent, contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. If I do the work on my recovery
every day, I get that reprieve every day where I, you know, that insanity has been removed from me.
So it's been working and I'm going to keep doing what's working because I don't want to go back to
the life I had before I was promised my misery could be refunded, you know. Take me to that moment.
(42:12):
You walk in a meeting. You know, I think, you know, for people who haven't been there, for people who
don't understand suicidal ideation and thoughts of ending one's own life, you walk into a meeting.
No one knows that those thoughts, I mean, our thoughts are private for the most part, unless
(42:33):
we share them. Right. And you have this interaction with a woman that you say changed your life and
it's, you know, saved your life in a way. That was super cool. That was actually in Chester Town a
few years later. That was a local meeting. But yeah, at that point, that was, that may have been
after I'd already come here as a patient one time, but I just could not stop drinking. And I, it was
(42:56):
awful. Like I could not manage my life was in shambles. I could, you know, my work performance
was suffering. I couldn't attend work. I couldn't pay my bills. I was like driving. I was coming to
behind the wheel all the time or breaking down on the side of the road and, you know, coming out
of blackouts and breaking down in my car. You know, I ran out of gas on the Bay Bridge, like crazy
stuff. And it was real out of hand. And I was scared and I just could not stop. I could not
(43:20):
drink, stop drinking. I was waking up, you know, I'd be vomiting in my sleep. I would wake, you
know, drink and throw it up and have to keep drinking because I had to have it. Like it was
not an option. So if you vomit, you just, you got to drink more. It was, it was scary. I would
wake up and not know what time of day it was. I was missing time, you know, large portions of
days just missing. I was time-traveling. It was scary.
(43:40):
And these thoughts are flooding my mind.
Yeah. So I'm in there crying, drunk and just, I had no idea what to do. I just knew it was a
safe place and they understood. I had no idea what I was hoping to get out of it. I didn't,
I still didn't believe they could help me. I think I just wanted to not be alone.
And what does this woman say that was so, that you've remembered it all this time,
(44:03):
that it was a pivotal moment?
It wasn't anything major. She didn't say much to me. She was just kind to me, you know,
she was kind. She wasn't judgmental and she made sure I was safe because I, you know,
I think those three things you just summed up so much about what people can do. Be kind,
don't be judgmental and then make sure the person's safe.
(44:25):
Well, that's why I don't know. I don't know if you had to write, I mean, like,
a guide to helping people.
I'm just so, I'm passionate about this stuff because I don't know. I've hurt immensely. Like,
I know what it's like to pray that you don't wake up in the morning. Like, I just wanted to
die and I can remember the evolution of my prayers. Like, it started out the foxhole prayers
(44:46):
when I would be really hungover, hurting, you know, because I drink till it hurts and I would pray,
like, please just get me through this and I'll never do it again. And then, you know,
the insanity of alcoholism. I'm doing it a week later. So eventually my prayers got to the point
where, you know, pray, you know, please help me stop drinking. I swear I'll never do it again.
And then I would say to myself, like, who are you kidding? You know, you're going to do it again.
(45:06):
And then by the end, before I got sober this last time was please kill me. Like, my life was a
cruel joke. Like, I either helped me, I need to get better. I want to die. It wasn't, I've always
been scared to death my whole life. And I have not, I still have not, you know, I still haven't
fully accepted my mortality. And I think that saved my life in some ways. Another thing God did
for me to keep me from shooting myself when Vince told me he didn't do it.
(45:27):
And those can you just outline something very, very powerful. Be kind.
Yeah.
Open, don't be judgmental. And just make sure you can do what you can to make sure that person
is safe for one more day.
What's amazing to me is, like I said, the falling backwards into purpose as a result of
the magnetic and now, you know, he says we're, we're God's people. I believe, I believe he and I are
(45:54):
kind of in agreement in this that maybe some of us are put here to suffer so that we can help others.
And not to, you know, not saying we're exceptional or we're superheroes, but I believe that. And
you know, if, if somebody else, if all the suffering I went through, if I can then take that
and help somebody else not suffer, then that's a fair trade to me. Because I know what it's
like to hurt. I know what it's like to want to die. And if I can, if I can help someone get out of
(46:17):
that, I believe I wouldn't, I don't have enemies today. Yeah, I've no hate in my heart, but I
would not wish that on anybody. Nobody deserves to live the life back to alcoholism and addiction.
It is all treatment centers until the last one.
So I did one in New Hampshire, then I did that was in the DUI was in December of 2015. So that
would have been January 2016 in New Hampshire. And then I did three in one year here. But also
(46:45):
when I, there was a lot of years, there were a lot of years, as I mentioned, where I,
I didn't think it was the addiction. I didn't think I was truly an addict or an alcoholic. So I
was looking for all the right, the right mental health diagnosis. So, you know, there were times
I was in crisis beds in hospitals or, you know, like psych, psych stays or I was in the, you know,
emergency rooms. I just think what you're telling us is so powerful. And it gives a lot of hope to
(47:11):
people. You know, and I, you know, I go back to that not being judgmental, not saying, well,
he's done this three or four times. It's not, you know, just having that openness that maybe this
time it's the seed, maybe there is still hope. Sometimes it takes a while for someone to process
through these things. For some people, they come through one time and, you know, they get their
(47:36):
life back on track or, but for others, this is a struggle that, and we wouldn't be judgmental if,
in the same way for someone go back to your diabetes, you know, if someone was struggling
with getting their A1C and their blood sugars and, and they had times when it was higher and lower.
(47:58):
And we give them grace to get that settled out, right? And getting the right insulin
levels and getting the right diet in place. But when it comes to addiction, we can really
kind of hold that over people's heads the number of times that they seek help. And,
you know, I think we're getting better as a society as we learn more about the chronic nature of this
(48:22):
brain disease and calling it a brain disease. But, you know, I think your story is just so powerful.
Just one more thing that I think is really important, because I know we're running the time
went quicker than I thought it would. All right. So one thing I want to mention,
(48:42):
you made some very great points there, but like, I, I have learned you can never count somebody
out. Like it was a process, a process in my recovery of getting to the place where I was ready. So you
can never count someone out. Some of the people that you would think, you know, they were, had the
most behavioral problems, the people that someone might think would never get it. Those people
sometimes just get it one day. Like you can never count somebody out. But also it's important you
(49:06):
mentioned, like the process. I learned the hard way. Everything I did was the hard way. And it was
years of failing and failing and failing to get to that point of reasonableness. What scares me
today is with the fentanyl, they no longer have that luxury. I'm sure you know, being in the field,
they favor the term fentanyl poisoning now, as opposed to overdose. So it's, and all the, you
(49:27):
know, all the prescription drugs are fake, pressed up fentanyl pills now. So,
An 18 year old kid takes a portion, takes a part of a pill thinking they're taking a real pill,
and they're dead. There's no opportunity to learn they're gone forever. So it like, it is all, you
know, we're not up against the same drugs we were. So these, these record overdoses in the United
(49:52):
States every five minutes, someone is dying of a drug overdose. So during this time we've been
talking, you know, that's a dozen people that have died just in the US while we've been talking,
it's, it's serious. And thank you for bringing that point. And yeah, the supply is different.
The drugs are different. This is a, you know, there is no experimenting anymore.
(50:18):
It's, it's scary. Yeah, we're not bad people, we're sick people and so many of the addicts and
alcoholics I meet, people just like me that are just amazingly talented, beautiful, kind, you know,
gifted folks, all different walks of life, it does not discriminate at all, you know, and it
doesn't care about your socioeconomic status or your religious or political leanings, you know.
(50:39):
I think when it really hit me, I worked, I was a counselor at a jail treatment center.
And we had 17 male inmates, I went in every day and it was kind of like, go in there and
do therapy, do something, you know, everybody's kind of tossing their hands up going, we don't
know what to do, let's bring some counselors in and let them give a crack at this, you know.
(51:03):
And so we went in and I asked one day, I said, it kind of took a poll of these 17 male inmates
at the age of first use and of the 17, only two started using as an adult. The rest all
started using mostly in, you know, at the age of, I think the common age was 12, but it went down to
(51:28):
age three when they were given drugs by family members because they thought it was funny to
watch people run into the walls. And, you know, I think it's real easy to look at this problem and
and the addiction epidemic and just say, well, you know, these are, these are people who are
(51:49):
making that choice. But a lot of them made choices as children that have shaped their lives and their
brain development and to go back to being kind, not being so quick to be judgmental. And just
let's keep these people safe, let's do what it takes to help them get help until they can make
(52:11):
the choice for abstinence and to stay well themselves. I just, I think what you said is so powerful. So
thank you for that. And life is a lot more enjoyable that way too, because we, you know,
everywhere I go, I talk about it all the time, but it's all love and positivity almost without
exception there. You know, there are some exceptions, but I tell my coworkers, I love them, you know,
(52:32):
the people at meetings, my friends, like, I don't, I don't have to have that negativity in my life
today. It's all good stuff, you know what I mean? Try, yeah, focusing on the positive, trying to grow
and help people. And, you know, thank you, Tom, you're making a difference. I've seen you interact
with our alarms at meetings. I'm heavily involved. I may be, maybe have missed two or three alumni
meetings since I left treatment the last time. I go to all the events. I can, I love it.
(52:56):
I know. I've seen, I've seen your positivity and it's a real force. And thank you for that.
And thank you for your time today. This is, thank you for having me. It's a real pleasure.
I've really enjoyed it. So thank you. This is recovery month. We want to celebrate that and
just let people know that there's help available. If anyone you know, or you need help, please
(53:21):
reach out, call 1-833-RCA-ALUM. You can call any one of our coordinators. They are amazing.
Tom, I think you would agree. Yes, they are. For real special group of people, you can call them.
They will give you some peer to peer support and you need treatment. Maybe you just need some
(53:44):
outpatient, some additional support in your recovery journey. Let's get you some help today.
Reach out rcaalumni.com or 1-833-RCA-ALUM. And we wish you all the best and we hope to see you next time.
(54:20):
Thank you for listening to the Strength and Recovery podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
please tap the subscribe button and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners
(54:41):
and hope to reach more of you out there as we continue to share these incredible stories
of recovery. The RCA alumni team aims to provide a safe supportive environment for those in the
recovery community, regardless of their affiliation with RCA. We host a full calendar of virtual and
in-person meetings seven days a week, 365 days a year, as well as free sober events every month.
(55:09):
To learn more about what we do, find us at rcaalumni.com. Remember, if you or a loved one is struggling
with addiction, pick up the phone and dial 1-833-RCA-ALUM. Help is available 24-7. Listen to
another episode now or join us next time for the Strength and Recovery podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.