July 23, 2025 • 44 mins
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Thirty-five years ago on July 27, 1990, Trinidad and Tobago experienced a shocking violation of its democratic foundations when Yasin Abu Bakr and the Jamaat al-Muslimeen stormed Parliament and the national television station, holding the Prime Minister hostage and declaring the government overthrown. This episode delves into a Caribbean coup that rarely makes the history books but lives on in the memory of Trinidadians who witnessed it. Writer Esker David Johnson joins us to share his personal connection to the event. Together, we uncover the economic and social conditions that fertilized the ground for this uprising, from Trinidad's oil-dependent economy to the marginalization of Afro-Trinidadian communities that Abu Bakr claimed to champion.
But the most fascinating aspect of this coup isn't just that it happened—it's what didn't happen afterward. Despite the violence, the hostage-taking, and approximately 30 deaths, the perpetrators walked free due to amnesty agreements signed under duress. This extraordinary lack of consequences created what Johnson describes as a "recalibration" of Trinidad's national identity, a wound in the country's relationship with justice that shapes crime and politics to this day. Through calypso, cultural memory, and comparative history, we trace the echoes of this event through Trinidad's later struggles and are reminded that memory, justice, and national identity are inextricably linked.
Eskor David Johnson is a writer from Trinidad and Tobago and the United States. His debut novel Pay As You Go was a finalist for the Center for Fiction First Novel Prize as well as the the New York Public Library Young Lions Fiction Award. A professor of Fiction Writing at Stony Brook University, he lives in New York City. Also check out Johnson's recent piece on the coup, "Sisyphus in the Capital."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, hosted byme, alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Hello, hello everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof Strictly Facts, a guide to
(00:23):
Caribbean history and culture,the show where Caribbean history
really comes to life, and, in asense, when I'm saying that, I
mean it really as an integralpart of who we are and who we're
always becoming and evolvinginto right.
I'm your host, alexandriaMiller, and today we are diving
into a part of the region'shistory that I think has
(00:44):
particularly gotten overshadowed.
It's an event that I certainlydidn't know much about until an
episode a while back, which I'llget into in a moment, but it
really came to mind not only forthe anniversary of this episode
, but just in the fact of theway that we talk about
rebellions in the Caribbean.
They're usually associated, Ithink, with slave revolts
(01:06):
oftentimes.
But what about coups, right?
Coup d'etats, you know, tend tobe very intense grabs for power
that shake entire nations.
They have been relatively rare,in the English-speaking
Caribbean particularly, which iswhy I think this moment is
really tremendous, and so inthis episode, we spotlight one
of the most striking andunder-discussed coups or
(01:29):
attempted coups, rather in theregion's post-independence
history the 1990 Jamaatal-Musaleen coup attempt in
Trinidad and Tobago.
35 years ago, on a quiet Julyafternoon, the capital of Porto,
spain, was thrown into chaos asan Islamic group stormed the
Red House, which is held by theprime minister and parliament.
(01:52):
Rather, they held the primeminister hostage and declared
the government overthrown.
Today we revisit that moment,not just to recount what
happened, but to ask what doesthe Muslimin coup tell us about
the political discontent, statepower and the silences that
shape our collective memory?
How has this event echoedthrough Trinidadian society and
(02:17):
politics in the decades since?
So, before we get too much intoit, I want to, you know,
introduce and give voice to ourguest today, and so joining me
is writer and Stony BrookUniversity professor of fiction
writing, esker David Johnson.
Esker, it's so great to haveyou.
Why don't you tell us a bitabout yourself?
Let our listeners know whereyou're hailing from which I'm
(02:38):
sure they're not surprised bythis point after the
introduction but also whatinspired sort of you know, your
love for writing and whatbrought you to the work that you
do today.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Hey, well, thank you very much for having me.
I'll answer your questions insome order.
I think I remember them all, soI'll try.
So I am raised in Trinidad.
I was about to say born andraised, but this actually facts
into the story a bit.
I had actually been born in theUK where my parents were at
(03:08):
that point in time 1988, in caseanyone wants to date me in that
sense.
We lived until I was about agefour.
So age four on was really whenI did all my growing in Trinidad
(03:36):
and Tobago, up until about age17 when I left for boarding
school.
But in that period of living inthe US prior, I had gone down
to Trinidad for a six-monthvacation.
I think the vacation was reallyfor my parents for a six-month
vacation.
I think the vacation was reallyfor my parents.
They sent me down to mygrandmother, as Caribbean
parents do, for six months whilethey could get some peace and
relaxation.
That was in 1990.
That was, in fact, when thecoup happened.
So I have it over my parents'head that I was there for one of
(03:59):
the more important moments inTrinidad's history.
And they were not.
I was like where were you whenit was all going down?
And yeah, um, so that's kind oflike the rough details.
Uh, love of writing, thatpretty much from this period of
speaking, or from age fouronwards, it's really been, uh,
something that you know washighly valued in my household
(04:22):
books, books, reading,engagement with the arts and I
just I took it more to heartthan perhaps my parents might
have intended and wanted to beone of the persons who could
make the books as well.
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Definitely, and it's great to have you Speaking of
your love of writing.
You know we got connected basedoff your recent article
Sisyphus in the Capital CrimePunishment and the Legacy of
Trinidad and Tobago's FailedCoup, and so you know you're
writing on this moment right andalso, you know, in tandem with
your lived experience, I thinkis really what brought us
(04:58):
together.
But before we sort of get intoit a little bit, I definitely do
want us to unpack the situation.
As I had mentioned a little bitearlier, this coup was one that
I hadn't actually even heardabout until we had an episode a
few years ago now with Dr LeahKahn, and we were talking about
religion within the Caribbean,and in her book Far From Mecca,
(05:22):
there is a chapter that talksabout Islam and the coup as well
as part of Trinidad's history.
And so ultimately, on July 27th1990, the Jamaat al-Muslim, a
radical Islamic group led byYassin Abu Bakr, stormed the Red
House, as I had sort of said alittle bit earlier, during a
(05:42):
live broadcast on the eveningnews.
They took the Prime Minister,anr Robinson, and members of the
cabinet hostage, whilesimultaneously seizing control
over the state televisionstation Trinidad and Tobago
Television TTT, and you know,had demanded several things,
including grievances about thesort of economic hardship at the
(06:05):
time, social inequality, stateoppression and several other
things, and really sort ofclaiming that they were
overthrowing the government toovercome these sort of
challenges that they had deemedcritical to the time period, but
even sort of we're getting intothe moment a little bit right,
(06:26):
having especially been present Imean, you were only two at the
time, but from you know beingthere, from hearing you know
grandparents, as you hadmentioned, and stuff beforehand,
what were some of the things inyour view that had really
prompted maybe the discontent?
We could take this on varyingaspects right.
There's, of course, a politicaldiscontent that's going on
(06:48):
generally at the time, but ofcourse also with the Muslims
group as well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, of course, and I think despite my quote-unquote
, having been there, I do rely alittle bit more on research and
anecdotes beyond my experienceto have written this essay and
to tell the story.
So you don't have to fear thatyou're taking a two year old's
account for everything thathappened.
(07:16):
A lot of what you said is spoton and I'll I'll start on with a
little bit more of the kind ofobjective facts of the matter
and then maybe lean in with alittle bit more of what a kind
of subjective point of viewmight be, which is what the
essay kind of goes into.
Some more so Trinidad kind offrom, let's just say, from the
(07:37):
late 70s into the 80s andonwards, and on a little bit of
an economic roller coaster wecan say in that, the kind of
presence and expansion of theoil industry in Trinidad and to
be a little bit more specific,really natural gas, but oil as
well, the presence of that beganto really make itself known in
(07:59):
those decades and there was alot of economic expansion and a
lot of like rapid increase ofwealth in Trinidad in those
years mentioned Only for by themid to late 80s a momentary
downturn then began to takeshape.
The problem with having amonocrop economy, as it's called
(08:22):
, oil not being a crop but stillcentered around one major point
of industry as sure as that wasand to some extent still is is
that you're very much tied tothe fate of this one commodity.
If oil is up, things are great.
If oil is down, things are notso good.
That such was the case in thelate 80s, and the economic
(08:42):
downturn either caused orcoincided with a lot of social
unrest as well, wherein therewere what I guess has to be
considered an underservedAfro-Trinidadian population and
(09:05):
spoils that were being, you know, boasted about and seen on,
maybe on a national level,weren't really making the
trickle down to affect regularpeople's lives on a day-to-day
basis.
This is not an original story,you know.
Pick your country throughoutworld history, and there have
been instances of thisthroughout.
This was just our versionthereof.
So a lot of unrest versionthereof.
(09:26):
So a lot of unrest, a lot ofpromises for change from
politicians that one can imaginesimply didn't go as far as many
people felt it needed to go,and especially in the case where
there was a newly electedgovernment, where, I believe,
came came into power in 1986 and, as most new parties do.
(09:48):
They came into power with thepromise of a lot of these major
reforms, with kind ofacknowledging what a lot of the
struggle and pain ofTrinidadians on the ground, uh,
was at that point in time, andthey were given enough, I guess,
of a grace period in order toenact some of these promised
changes.
I myself, of course, was notthere, but it's suffice to say
(10:10):
that by 1990, this oneparticular group, the Jamat
al-Muslimin and we could speak alittle bit more about them they
felt, and their leader felt,that enough was enough, not
enough had been done.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And matters had to be taken into their own hands in
order to make the change thatwas needed, feeling, I think he
in some ways he sort of usedthat to his advantage and sort
of recruiting the members of theorganization right.
Particularly from Dr Khan'sbook she sort of outlines that
he sort of monopolized thatmoment to recruit members,
(10:59):
particularly Black men, who shecalls them not converts to Islam
but returnees to Islam in asense.
And you know, if you guys checkout her book, which I
definitely recommend, she talksmore about why she describes
them as returnees.
I think that sort of helps tocontextualize the situation a
little bit further, just becauseI think oftentimes, when we
(11:21):
think of the Caribbean, islam isnot even necessarily the first
religion we think about right,and so to sort of just
understand how this momenthappens and has sort of been
sparked by this sort of socialunrest that has amassed not in
just even Trinidad, as you said,right, but has definitely
(11:41):
amassed throughout the 70s, evenTrinidad, as you said, right,
but has definitely amassedthroughout the 70s.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, you bring up a great point and you know, to be
fair to Yasin Abu Bakr as wellas his organization, the
Muslimin, they did spark a lotof positive change, that has to
be said.
They did clean up neighborhoodsthat were coming to fall under
(12:08):
the sway of crime and increaseddrug presence, as Trinidad is
just off the coast of Venezuela,therefore South America at
large, and even to this daythere is a bit of a
(12:41):
transshipment of drugs throughthe region, which obviously f to
see that the road that it wouldtake a lot of the poor members
of the population was not a goodone and really was an
organizing force.
In the essay I call him acommunity organizer with a bit
of a tongue in cheek, but that'sjust me maybe being a bit coy.
(13:02):
He did indeed organizecommunities and he did give a
lot of young men, especiallyyoung Black men, young African
men, a sense of purpose, a senseof belonging and a sense of
pride in who they were and whothey should be and the impact
and effect that they could have,not only on their local
communities but then, of course,our main theme to the nation at
(13:24):
large, and there are manyexamples of this kind of
positive impact that people tothis day would argue that he did
have on people's lives, and Ithink that needs to be said.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Certainly, I mean I definitely want to also, as
we're exploring this moment,underscore the fact that like
this just sort of didn't seemreal until it seemed real right,
like taking over the is this ajoke?
Sort of thing, but so muchtranspires over the course of
six days.
Really this was a six day coupand so sort of.
(14:09):
Do you want to unpack some ofthese things for us in just sort
of the like general moment andwhat transpired as a result?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I think you're exactly right in the sense of
surreality.
If there is one thing that I dorecall and that I am able to
speak on experientially was thissense of oh, things are feeling
a little bit different, andthat was just for me.
At two years old, you know notto even speak of what's
happening in the country atlarge timeline of events is that
(14:39):
on July 27 in 1990, what wouldhave happened for you as a
regular Trinidadian watching oneof our three TV channels at
that point in time is that oneof them, your programming, would
have been interrupted and youwould have seen Abubakar kind of
in front of the camera speakingto the nation, saying that at 6
(15:04):
pm I believe earlier in the day, that the government had been
overthrown and what had begunearlier that day is that I
believe in two factions.
They sent one down to the TVstation and then another over to
Parliament, but these groups ofpeople from the Muslimin, they
(15:27):
stormed in, they overtook the TVstation from which the address
was coming.
They did also bomb the policeheadquarters, so that happened
earlier in the day, and thenthey also stormed into
Parliament, the Red House thatyou mentioned, which is where
Parliament is housed andconducts their matters and you
(15:50):
can see this video of ordinaryparliamentary proceedings,
interrupted by the sounds ofcommotion, of scuffling and
shuffling and people running andscrambling for cover, ducking
underneath desks.
It was the arrival and theinvasion of these militant
groups, these young men withguns, really, and holding
(16:13):
everyone there hostage untilfurther notice.
So it was really thiscoordinated strike effort
happening with more or lesssimultaneously and that hit what
they saw as the major painpoints, or maybe the major
points of command of a country.
You control a major media outlet, be it a tv or a radio station.
(16:37):
You uh control parliament,where all of the politicians
were I should mention the primeminister himself was also at
Parliament, so he was heldhostage then by default as well
and you address the nation tolet them know that we are now
the ones in charge.
I do go on into the essay tospeak as to how this game plan,
(16:58):
which has repeated itselfthroughout history and countries
across history, is in somesense one doomed to folly.
And uh, yeah, so we could speakas to how it did not work and
how it seems to never work, forall of these would be, uh, I
guess, dictator.
Well, we, we don't even know ifhe would have been a dictator.
He never even made it that far,but these would be leaders of
(17:23):
coup.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And I definitely want to add that sort of you know,
in addition to this moment.
There are people who are shot.
I believe the prime ministerwas also shot.
Several others were shot.
I believe around 20 to 30 liveswere lost during the coup.
There is also a loot out thatresults, as a part of the coup,
causing sort of millions ofdollars in damages, and so I
(17:48):
think, in some ways, when we'recontextualizing coups, it's
obviously, like you know, on onehand, the organization, but
there was clearly a spilloutright that goes even beyond this
, to to, I think, furthercontextualize the moment that we
were talking about earlier ofcourse, and one of one of the
first things that abubakar sayson his tv address.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Again, you can go watch this on youtube.
He says at so-and-so time thegovernment was overthrown, uh,
the revolutionary forces arecommanding the streets, and so
on, you know, he says thereshall be no looting, which was
addressing the public at large,which you know.
He probably knew what wascoming, because there then
(18:31):
followed a lot of looting.
So I'm just going back tospeaking to that sense of
surreality For me.
I just remember that I used to.
I was staying with mygrandmother, my aunt.
We used to go for these walksevery day around the
neighborhood.
Very lovely, one of thehighlights of my day, walking
with auntie Lovern holding herhand.
Granny Sylvia would be home.
(18:52):
And then I just remember, likeone day it was just we can't go
for a walk, and I was just soconfused, I was so, you know,
upset about it, and then the dayafter we couldn't go for it,
and the day after, and I justremember this sense of like
tension and you know, in yourchild's limited point of view,
you're just aware that, oh,something is happening and
there's a reason why everyone isworried and there's a reason
(19:13):
why there isn't as muchmovements going about.
People are kind of staying home, being guarded, and maybe I
thought it might have been likean adventure, a game.
You know it's nice to haveeveryone around.
But I do remember perceivingthe sense of something unusual
is happening and it seems as ifpeople aren't as happy as they
(19:39):
ordinarily are.
In the meantime, people weregetting shot, losing their lives
.
The prime minister was shot inhis life.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I also sort of want us to underscore.
We talk about coups and theimmediate impact, right, but
also the sort of like generalimpact that you're getting at,
right, that you know it sort ofno longer felt safe in a way,
Right, that you know it sort ofno longer felt safe in a way not
(20:07):
being able to go on these walks, Right.
But also, I think, even beyondthat, the state was sort of
transformed, or even sort ofsocial relationships amongst
communities transformed.
I'm sure you know we don't eventhink of Islamic extremist
groups being something that'sreally coming out of the
Caribbean, especially at thattime, right.
And so what for you, do youthink really helped to to sort
(20:31):
of underscore the aftermath ofit, a nation's understanding of
who they are?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Even in the instance, in the rare instances, that a
coup is successful, then that issome sense a total rewriting of
what your country now is,depending on who is in charge,
what their plans for the countryare.
It's a very rapid and a verysudden, a very jarring
(21:11):
reordering of priorities, ofidentity, of the definition of
what it means to be a citizen ofthis country.
So those are in the few thatactually do succeed.
The vast majority do fail.
Nonetheless, it still does givethat version of a shock wherein
(21:34):
the kind of country you thoughtyou were living in may be
revealed to be another.
I think, in the case ofTrinidad, be revealed to be
another.
I think, in the case ofTrinidad, that revelation
happens in a few parts, in a fewsteps.
(21:54):
First, as we have been saying,is the initial shock of that
something like this could happenat all that there are living
amongst us those who would takeup arms and use violence as a
means of achieving their ends ina nation that prided itself on
the democratic tradition.
That tradition has its ownflaws.
(22:14):
It continues to have flaws inall of its renditions today,
trinidad included.
But it was at least the destinywe had chosen for ourselves as
to how to shape our politicalyou know futures going back from
1962, the moment ofindependence onwards.
(22:34):
So the fact that I could fomentand take shape a large enough
and a determined enough, apowerful enough and a
well-supported enough of a groupthat they're willing to kind of
make this affront to thisnational agreement that we have
had, that is, and of itself, itsown shock.
You didn't know that.
You lived in a country in whichthat would ever be on the table
(22:59):
.
Then the second shock and thisdoesn't always happen, but it
did happen in the case forTrinidad and I make the argument
it's happened in the case ofthe US.
The second shock is the shockthat can happen if nothing is
done afterwards, if there are noconsequences.
That then results.
(23:21):
So, to give a little bit of areturn to the history synopsis,
this Attenda coup.
It lasted for six days.
While they had the primeminister hostage, they did get
him to sign amnesty agreementssaying that you know they were
clear in the eyes of the law.
This is while you know, again,he's a hostage.
(23:43):
They shot him in the leg andthey're like hey, sign this.
Of course he signs it.
One would expect that thiswould not stand the rigor, the
testing, a court of law.
They would get thrown outpost-haste but, as Trinidad
would go on to find out in themonths that followed, it did in
fact stand the test of thecourts.
(24:05):
It was held up.
These men were in fact grantedamnesty and were ultimately,
maybe after a few months, werefree to go and return to their
lives as regular citizens inTrinidad and Tobago.
Abu Bakr himself, you know, diedof old age not too long ago.
You know constantly speakingout against the government
(24:26):
during his time.
Maybe some of that was fair,maybe some of that was not, but
the fact of the matter is thathe was out here amongst us.
So, going back, so that is asecond kind of shock, and I
think it's the kind of shockthat is extremely rare.
Well, it's rare enough to havea coup, so, amongst coups, their
failure is not rare.
(24:47):
But what is rare after that isthe lack of consequence, and
that, I think, is the shock that, for Trinidadians, kind of
became like a longer running, aslower burning.
It's this recalibration of whoyou were, it's a recalibration
of the country you thought thatyou were living in.
(25:10):
It's one thing to have yourlaws written on a piece of paper
, few are the moments in whichthey are tested in this drastic
of a manner, rare are thosemoments and, because of their
rarity, extremely consequentialare these moments.
So to fail this test ofstanding by your laws, standing
(25:30):
by the order that you wish foryourselves, for the safety of
those you love and for thefuture of your country, to fail
that test, I think, brings aboutconsequences that are long
running, slow burning, but that,I would argue, continue to
reverberate today and puts youon a different path of national
(25:52):
identity than you probablyotherwise would have been, one
somewhat more compromised, onethat you know has failed in a
major way.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
And even the Muslimin , right, I think, as you're
saying, right, we oftentimesthink of coups and when they're
over, they're over, you know,groups disbanded et cetera, but
Muslimin goes on to continue andof course, you know, is, in
sort of the my reading stillobviously viewed with suspicion
(26:23):
and you know that has carriedforward since 1990.
Um, but just the sort of rarityof this moment, I think, is
sort of has very multiple thingsthat we're not used to seeing,
right, let alone back then in1990 agreed and just very
quickly the the reason why thisstory was even became of initial
(26:44):
interest to me just growing upin Trinidad.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So you know, it's sad to say, but crime in Trinidad
is not great, by which I meanit's quite bad, and growing up
it would always just be likelike a casual talking point
amongst people, people like Iremember I just met like an old
soldier one time who who wassaying, like you know, the
(27:08):
moment that we really went offcourse was after the coup, when
nothing happened to these menand there was a sense of, well,
anything is anything, anyone cando anything.
There's no real ultimateconsequences to your actions and
or, in this case, your crimes.
Whether or not that is true, Ithink, is always going to be
(27:31):
open for debate.
But it was the question, it wasthe sentiment that I wanted to
kind of explore further in thepiece, especially because it was
just such a piece of kind ofcommon colloquial knowledge my
entire time growing up.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That point also leads me to my next question, because
the common knowledge of it itobviously you know we're talking
about Trinidad, so it's goingto show up in a calypso right.
It's going to show up as partof our culture, our music
culture particularly that has sotremendously historicized our
experiences right Throughout thecourse of Strictly Facts.
(28:06):
We have always connected theways that these moments or these
figures in our history haveshowed up in our popular culture
, not just in a sense to singabout right, but to sort of
memorialize or, you know, ensurethat the understanding of these
moments carry on into thefuture generations.
And so for you, what are sortof some of your favorite
(28:30):
examples of how this history andthis moment shows up in
Trinidadian popular culture?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
You know, and it's so curious that you say that I'm
going to confess off the batthat it's a bit difficult for me
to think of a lot of examples.
Only one really comes to mindand you know, I like want to say
maybe that has something to sayabout our collective amnesia,
et cetera, et cetera.
But I would err on the personalfault side.
(28:58):
Maybe it's just my ownshortcoming and not being as
savvy as to what the variousappearances in arts and media
are.
The main thing that comes tomind is a song by David Rudder,
1990, one of our greatCalypsonians, 1990, of course,
being the year in which thisevent took place For everyone
(29:21):
listening.
I do encourage you to go andlook up the song itself.
I do not remember the words, butthere is a refrain during the
chorus.
It says 1990, please make aliar of me.
And what the song talks about.
It's the sense of 1990.
It's the beginning of a newdecade.
You're looking forward to thefuture, almost the end of the
(29:44):
century, and there would havebeen at that point in time a
sense of you know again all thatTrinidad could be, all that the
region could be, trinidad andTobago could be, and in some
sense, how that spirit ofoptimism would have been
compromised by the end of 1990.
(30:06):
So he has.
This refrain says 1990, pleasemake a liar of me.
So the speaker of the songhimself, I think, has probably
imbued a little bit of thisnegative outlook as a result,
and he's asking of the airplease make a liar of me, please
, please, don't let this be thedestiny that we have actually
(30:31):
been set on.
That's again.
That's my loose memory of whatthe song is about.
I do remember that line.
I should go and look this up alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think it's Jose right.
Is that the song?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
No, the song is called 1990.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh, okay, I think there's a few of them that I
think Rudder talks about.
So 1990s is one, Jose I believeis another one.
I also know.
Cro-cro has a song Say a Prayerfor Abu Bakr yes, yes, yes, yes
, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Okay, great, so going back to everything I was saying
.
I am pinning this down to myown.
Like I need to justre-familiarize myself some more.
I'm taking that blame 100%.
All these are songs that assoon as I hear them, I know them
.
But to bring them upindependently is where I'm
struggling.
But yes, sorry, and if you havemore, I would love for you to
(31:26):
go on.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Those are the songs that come to mind, but I
definitely also wanted to upholdanother podcast that had, in
the past, done a little bit moreof an investigation of this,
done a little bit more of aninvestigation of this and, I
think, very in tune to thingsthat I love in terms of history,
captures, some of the audio ofcertain broadcast or people who
(31:50):
were, you know, sort of caughtup in this moment.
I believe, like one of them wasone of the police who were
involved, etc.
And soibbean investigativejournalism network podcast has a
few episodes that reallyexplore this moment, um, and
they go on to in other episodesalso sort of talk about the
(32:12):
impact of the coup, not justfrom the standpoint of the coup
itself, but also, um, the sortof like global threat of
terrorism that obviously occursas a result as well.
When we think of terrorism,it's sort of thought of that
thing that happens over in theMiddle East, sort of way.
(32:32):
Right, but to some extent andif listeners are interested and
want to learn more about this,the Muslim mean sort of becomes
a pathway for those in thecaribbean, um, who might be
targeted.
I don't know if that's the word, but you know, sort of um, yeah
(32:54):
, sort of moving towards more umextremist leanings, and so for
those who want to check that out, I definitely um recommend that
podcast as well.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, of course.
And then you know, when ISISwas dominating a little bit more
of the cultural imagination,five, six, seven years ago,
there were multiple stories ofTrinidadians who made their way
over to the Middle East in orderto join and be recruited, be
(33:25):
radicalized, if you will, Ibelieve on a per capita basis,
which sometimes per capita as ametric I find is a bit specious,
but on a per capita basis Ibelieve we had one of the higher
recruitment rates in theWestern Hemisphere before ISIS.
Mind you, our population is 1.3million.
So you know, I'm sure if thereare like four people who went,
(33:47):
then that would put you quitehigh up there, but it is worth
saying.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, and something that, as well, the same podcast,
caribbean InvestigativeJournalism Network, really
expands upon.
I want to end on a particularnote, because I think, as we've
talked about it thus far, theinception of the coup has caused
a bit of confusion.
(34:13):
In some sense, it could be andas we sort of explored it's been
one of the lesser known coupsin the region, and so we're now
at the point where it's 35 yearslater, right, I think,
especially for at least mygeneration it can be very easy
to think, oh, these thingshappened hundreds of years ago,
(34:33):
right, but this is not one ofthose events.
And so how do you think thememory of the coup, or sort of
the lack thereof, has reallyimpacted who we are as a people,
or what the state of Trinidadand Tobago eventually evolved or
has since evolved into, andwhat can we do better regarding
(34:53):
that sort of memory?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
One of the great joys and one of the unignorable
frustrations of being that ourregion has been able to have on
the world and that trinidadiansat large are able to step beyond
our borders or beyond ourboundaries.
And do you find trinidadianseverywhere, in all places, doing
all manner of things.
And we're such curious people,multifaceted people, and I think
(35:48):
it's something to be said ofthat history, of how complicated
, at times brutal, and then also, you know, at the same time,
enriching, of a history.
It can be where you it's likethis, natural, human experiments
, you know wherein, maybe not sonatural, not everyone, you know
(36:12):
, just there, by chance, right,but you know there are just so
many ingredients into what ittakes to be Caribbean in the
first place, ingredients intowhat it takes to be Caribbean in
the first place, be that Africa, be that Europe, be that India,
be that within those continents, those subgroups, from the
(36:32):
Portuguese, the French, westAfrican to East African, and, as
a result, I think that there'ssuch like a richness of thought,
that there's such like arichness of thought, there's
such a curiosity about like lifeand, for me, about language.
I think the the type of englishwe speak, the type of language
we speak, has been particularlyenriching and empowering for me
(36:52):
as a writer per se.
I think it lends me a lens,that I feel that I have an
advantage, um, as a result, oversome of my you know, maybe less
exposed peers.
Anyway, that's just in that oneexample, but you could expand
that to sports, economics, topolitics, what have you?
And you grow up so just veryaware of just how talented
(37:16):
people around you are,especially as a kid, when you're
there in school.
And then once you hit kind oflike the 20s or 30s, where I am
now, something happens and thatraw pool of talent you feel as
if has begun to fizzle aroundyou and now your attention just
trains itself and it's okay.
Well, what the next generationis going to do, we may or may
(37:39):
not have that same experience.
So we have so much potential,but then what happened
generation is going to do, whomay or may not have that same
experience.
So they're all like we're.
You know, we have so muchpotential, but then like what
happened, so that I think justspeaks to kind of like the fate
of the country at large, therewere, like there were such these
key, pivotal moments where itfelt as if we could have been
something else.
One of them that I mentioned inthe essay and this speaks to
(38:02):
the region at large is in the1950s, 10 Caribbean nations,
spearheaded by Jamaica andTrinidad, English-speaking
countries nearly came togetherand made a federation, and that
is something that would have hadour own currency, free travel
between borders and form aneconomic block by which some of
(38:27):
the predatory arrangements thatorganizations like the IMF and
the World Bank later enactedupon the region.
It is easier to imagine usbeing more resilient against
those and using the shared senseof pool, resources and access
and ability to take that nextstep as the second half of the
(38:48):
20th century unfolded.
Sorry for this very long answer, um, but um, one country pulled
out jamaica and you guysfollowed, so no matter what, is
that right?
continue right at home, primeminister made a very like, a
(39:08):
little cool point.
Yeah, he says one from tenleaves zero, which is not
accurate math, but it is, youknow, like a nice little visual
quip, right.
So and so that moment we likelost and and who knows what
would have happened.
And I already mentioned whatgoes on to happen with the IMF
and the World Bank and thepresence of the CIA in the
region.
We don't have to get into allthat, but these are the kinds of
(39:30):
fates that we were thensubjected to by making ourselves
weaker than we otherwise wouldhave been have been.
So too, I would argue, is thecase with, not the coup per se,
but in that period of time, inlike the 80s, into the, the like
90s, where our wealth as acountry was just coming into
(39:53):
being.
Yes, there were moments ofdownturn, but there was still
this the sense of abundance, thesense of wealth, the sense of
possibility, going back into the70s onwards, and what might the
country had been had thoseresources, had those
opportunities been harnessed ina way that was truly altruistic,
that was truly taken intoaccount the fate of a country
(40:15):
and the people, as opposed tothe welfare of a smaller
controlling class.
The coup kind of resulted as aresponse to that, and I think
the secondary consequence of thecoup is that the fact that
nothing was done meant that notonly were you a joking country
(40:35):
when it came to ensuring thefate of your people, you're also
joking country when it came tokind of enforcing your laws and
to being a country of principle,anyway.
So I might have lost the threadin your question itself, but
this is something that you knowI can get quite riled up about.
I just guess I spent a lot oftime just imagining the Trinidad
(41:01):
we could have been, theCaribbean we could have been.
I will also say that I don'tmention all this just to remain
pessimistic, but for us to kindof be aware of what our fate so
far has been and what we can andhopefully should continue to
shape it to be and learn fromsome of these lessons.
I read a great quote fromCicero today that said not to
(41:30):
know what happened before onewas born is always to be a child
, and it stuck with me.
So I don't want us to continueto be children in the global
stage.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
That's beautifully said and I appreciate you for
bringing up that point Because,again, the point of even
strictly facts, it's not justmerely to know the things that
happened you know, everybodycould just read the book and or
whatever Google facts and carryon about our lives more or less
but really ultimately, having usunderstand who we've been, what
(42:04):
we've gone through, where we'recoming from, to really
understand how we continue togrow and evolve.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
So I like.
The thing is I say this in thepiece as well the problem is
that the governments do needchange.
Trinidad does need drasticchange, I'm sure Jamaica does
need drastic change, and whatthe powers that be and what the
people at large kind of likeneed to realize is that if we
don't start to make that changein a way that's like healthy and
(42:34):
that's respectful and thathonors like who we are, then the
alternatives become thesemoments of madness, of intensity
, of harm and destruction andruin that still don't change
anything, but that's theconsequence there.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
I fully agree and I think you know, for our
listeners who want to furthercheck out your work, I'll link
you know several of your otherpieces in our show notes and on
our Sturley Facts syllabus, butI think you know your piece
Sisyphus in the Capitol CrimePunishment and the Legacy of
Trinidad and Tobago's FailedCoup really underscores a lot of
(43:13):
what we're saying, right, notjust about the moment itself but
really how we come tounderstand the aftermath.
So I thank you for joining usfor this episode, for sharing
you know, both from a personallens about your experiences, but
also having this conversationwith me and how we come to even
understand these situationstoday.
(43:35):
Thank you for having me Ofcourse you know it's a family
thing, so we're all I will tellthem.
So with that, everyone I hopeyou appreciated and you know
really enjoyed this episode.
Be sure to check out ourStrictly Facts syllabus for more
links to you know things we'vereferenced and several other
(43:56):
pieces where you can learn aboutthe coup and in several other
moments, just you know, aroundthe 80s and 90s in trinidad as
well I want to give a big shoutout to qrc, to hk and to the
glorious bastards.
Boom, boom of course you have tobig up, we have to big up,
which is right, um, and so tillnext time, everyone look more.
(44:18):
All right, thanks for tuning into strictly facts.
Visit strictly facts podcastcomfor more information from each
episode.
Follow us at strictly facts podon instagram and facebook and
at strictly facts pd on twitter.
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, hosted byme, alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Hello, hello everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof Strictly Facts, a guide to
(00:23):
Caribbean history and culture,the show where Caribbean history
really comes to life, and, in asense, when I'm saying that, I
mean it really as an integralpart of who we are and who we're
always becoming and evolvinginto right.
I'm your host, alexandriaMiller, and today we are diving
into a part of the region'shistory that I think has
(00:44):
particularly gotten overshadowed.
It's an event that I certainlydidn't know much about until an
episode a while back, which I'llget into in a moment, but it
really came to mind not only forthe anniversary of this episode
, but just in the fact of theway that we talk about
rebellions in the Caribbean.
They're usually associated, Ithink, with slave revolts
(01:06):
oftentimes.
But what about coups, right?
Coup d'etats, you know, tend tobe very intense grabs for power
that shake entire nations.
They have been relatively rare,in the English-speaking
Caribbean particularly, which iswhy I think this moment is
really tremendous, and so inthis episode, we spotlight one
of the most striking andunder-discussed coups or
(01:29):
attempted coups, rather in theregion's post-independence
history the 1990 Jamaatal-Musaleen coup attempt in
Trinidad and Tobago.
35 years ago, on a quiet Julyafternoon, the capital of Porto,
spain, was thrown into chaos asan Islamic group stormed the
Red House, which is held by theprime minister and parliament.
(01:52):
Rather, they held the primeminister hostage and declared
the government overthrown.
Today we revisit that moment,not just to recount what
happened, but to ask what doesthe Muslimin coup tell us about
the political discontent, statepower and the silences that
shape our collective memory?
How has this event echoedthrough Trinidadian society and
(02:17):
politics in the decades since?
So, before we get too much intoit, I want to, you know,
introduce and give voice to ourguest today, and so joining me
is writer and Stony BrookUniversity professor of fiction
writing, esker David Johnson.
Esker, it's so great to haveyou.
Why don't you tell us a bitabout yourself?
Let our listeners know whereyou're hailing from which I'm
(02:38):
sure they're not surprised bythis point after the
introduction but also whatinspired sort of you know, your
love for writing and whatbrought you to the work that you
do today.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Hey, well, thank you very much for having me.
I'll answer your questions insome order.
I think I remember them all, soI'll try.
So I am raised in Trinidad.
I was about to say born andraised, but this actually facts
into the story a bit.
I had actually been born in theUK where my parents were at
(03:08):
that point in time 1988, in caseanyone wants to date me in that
sense.
We lived until I was about agefour.
So age four on was really whenI did all my growing in Trinidad
(03:36):
and Tobago, up until about age17 when I left for boarding
school.
But in that period of living inthe US prior, I had gone down
to Trinidad for a six-monthvacation.
I think the vacation was reallyfor my parents for a six-month
vacation.
I think the vacation was reallyfor my parents.
They sent me down to mygrandmother, as Caribbean
parents do, for six months whilethey could get some peace and
relaxation.
That was in 1990.
That was, in fact, when thecoup happened.
So I have it over my parents'head that I was there for one of
(03:59):
the more important moments inTrinidad's history.
And they were not.
I was like where were you whenit was all going down?
And yeah, um, so that's kind oflike the rough details.
Uh, love of writing, thatpretty much from this period of
speaking, or from age fouronwards, it's really been, uh,
something that you know washighly valued in my household
(04:22):
books, books, reading,engagement with the arts and I
just I took it more to heartthan perhaps my parents might
have intended and wanted to beone of the persons who could
make the books as well.
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Definitely, and it's great to have you Speaking of
your love of writing.
You know we got connected basedoff your recent article
Sisyphus in the Capital CrimePunishment and the Legacy of
Trinidad and Tobago's FailedCoup, and so you know you're
writing on this moment right andalso, you know, in tandem with
your lived experience, I thinkis really what brought us
(04:58):
together.
But before we sort of get intoit a little bit, I definitely do
want us to unpack the situation.
As I had mentioned a little bitearlier, this coup was one that
I hadn't actually even heardabout until we had an episode a
few years ago now with Dr LeahKahn, and we were talking about
religion within the Caribbean,and in her book Far From Mecca,
(05:22):
there is a chapter that talksabout Islam and the coup as well
as part of Trinidad's history.
And so ultimately, on July 27th1990, the Jamaat al-Muslim, a
radical Islamic group led byYassin Abu Bakr, stormed the Red
House, as I had sort of said alittle bit earlier, during a
(05:42):
live broadcast on the eveningnews.
They took the Prime Minister,anr Robinson, and members of the
cabinet hostage, whilesimultaneously seizing control
over the state televisionstation Trinidad and Tobago
Television TTT, and you know,had demanded several things,
including grievances about thesort of economic hardship at the
(06:05):
time, social inequality, stateoppression and several other
things, and really sort ofclaiming that they were
overthrowing the government toovercome these sort of
challenges that they had deemedcritical to the time period, but
even sort of we're getting intothe moment a little bit right,
(06:26):
having especially been present Imean, you were only two at the
time, but from you know beingthere, from hearing you know
grandparents, as you hadmentioned, and stuff beforehand,
what were some of the things inyour view that had really
prompted maybe the discontent?
We could take this on varyingaspects right.
There's, of course, a politicaldiscontent that's going on
(06:48):
generally at the time, but ofcourse also with the Muslims
group as well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, of course, and I think despite my quote-unquote
, having been there, I do rely alittle bit more on research and
anecdotes beyond my experienceto have written this essay and
to tell the story.
So you don't have to fear thatyou're taking a two year old's
account for everything thathappened.
(07:16):
A lot of what you said is spoton and I'll I'll start on with a
little bit more of the kind ofobjective facts of the matter
and then maybe lean in with alittle bit more of what a kind
of subjective point of viewmight be, which is what the
essay kind of goes into.
Some more so Trinidad kind offrom, let's just say, from the
(07:37):
late 70s into the 80s andonwards, and on a little bit of
an economic roller coaster wecan say in that, the kind of
presence and expansion of theoil industry in Trinidad and to
be a little bit more specific,really natural gas, but oil as
well, the presence of that beganto really make itself known in
(07:59):
those decades and there was alot of economic expansion and a
lot of like rapid increase ofwealth in Trinidad in those
years mentioned Only for by themid to late 80s a momentary
downturn then began to takeshape.
The problem with having amonocrop economy, as it's called
(08:22):
, oil not being a crop but stillcentered around one major point
of industry as sure as that wasand to some extent still is is
that you're very much tied tothe fate of this one commodity.
If oil is up, things are great.
If oil is down, things are notso good.
That such was the case in thelate 80s, and the economic
(08:42):
downturn either caused orcoincided with a lot of social
unrest as well, wherein therewere what I guess has to be
considered an underservedAfro-Trinidadian population and
(09:05):
spoils that were being, you know, boasted about and seen on,
maybe on a national level,weren't really making the
trickle down to affect regularpeople's lives on a day-to-day
basis.
This is not an original story,you know.
Pick your country throughoutworld history, and there have
been instances of thisthroughout.
This was just our versionthereof.
So a lot of unrest versionthereof.
(09:26):
So a lot of unrest, a lot ofpromises for change from
politicians that one can imaginesimply didn't go as far as many
people felt it needed to go,and especially in the case where
there was a newly electedgovernment, where, I believe,
came came into power in 1986 and, as most new parties do.
(09:48):
They came into power with thepromise of a lot of these major
reforms, with kind ofacknowledging what a lot of the
struggle and pain ofTrinidadians on the ground, uh,
was at that point in time, andthey were given enough, I guess,
of a grace period in order toenact some of these promised
changes.
I myself, of course, was notthere, but it's suffice to say
(10:10):
that by 1990, this oneparticular group, the Jamat
al-Muslimin and we could speak alittle bit more about them they
felt, and their leader felt,that enough was enough, not
enough had been done.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And matters had to be taken into their own hands in
order to make the change thatwas needed, feeling, I think he
in some ways he sort of usedthat to his advantage and sort
of recruiting the members of theorganization right.
Particularly from Dr Khan'sbook she sort of outlines that
he sort of monopolized thatmoment to recruit members,
(10:59):
particularly Black men, who shecalls them not converts to Islam
but returnees to Islam in asense.
And you know, if you guys checkout her book, which I
definitely recommend, she talksmore about why she describes
them as returnees.
I think that sort of helps tocontextualize the situation a
little bit further, just becauseI think oftentimes, when we
(11:21):
think of the Caribbean, islam isnot even necessarily the first
religion we think about right,and so to sort of just
understand how this momenthappens and has sort of been
sparked by this sort of socialunrest that has amassed not in
just even Trinidad, as you said,right, but has definitely
(11:41):
amassed throughout the 70s, evenTrinidad, as you said, right,
but has definitely amassedthroughout the 70s.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, you bring up a great point and you know, to be
fair to Yasin Abu Bakr as wellas his organization, the
Muslimin, they did spark a lotof positive change, that has to
be said.
They did clean up neighborhoodsthat were coming to fall under
(12:08):
the sway of crime and increaseddrug presence, as Trinidad is
just off the coast of Venezuela,therefore South America at
large, and even to this daythere is a bit of a
(12:41):
transshipment of drugs throughthe region, which obviously f to
see that the road that it wouldtake a lot of the poor members
of the population was not a goodone and really was an
organizing force.
In the essay I call him acommunity organizer with a bit
of a tongue in cheek, but that'sjust me maybe being a bit coy.
(13:02):
He did indeed organizecommunities and he did give a
lot of young men, especiallyyoung Black men, young African
men, a sense of purpose, a senseof belonging and a sense of
pride in who they were and whothey should be and the impact
and effect that they could have,not only on their local
communities but then, of course,our main theme to the nation at
(13:24):
large, and there are manyexamples of this kind of
positive impact that people tothis day would argue that he did
have on people's lives, and Ithink that needs to be said.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Certainly, I mean I definitely want to also, as
we're exploring this moment,underscore the fact that like
this just sort of didn't seemreal until it seemed real right,
like taking over the is this ajoke?
Sort of thing, but so muchtranspires over the course of
six days.
Really this was a six day coupand so sort of.
(14:09):
Do you want to unpack some ofthese things for us in just sort
of the like general moment andwhat transpired as a result?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I think you're exactly right in the sense of
surreality.
If there is one thing that I dorecall and that I am able to
speak on experientially was thissense of oh, things are feeling
a little bit different, andthat was just for me.
At two years old, you know notto even speak of what's
happening in the country atlarge timeline of events is that
(14:39):
on July 27 in 1990, what wouldhave happened for you as a
regular Trinidadian watching oneof our three TV channels at
that point in time is that oneof them, your programming, would
have been interrupted and youwould have seen Abubakar kind of
in front of the camera speakingto the nation, saying that at 6
(15:04):
pm I believe earlier in the day, that the government had been
overthrown and what had begunearlier that day is that I
believe in two factions.
They sent one down to the TVstation and then another over to
Parliament, but these groups ofpeople from the Muslimin, they
(15:27):
stormed in, they overtook the TVstation from which the address
was coming.
They did also bomb the policeheadquarters, so that happened
earlier in the day, and thenthey also stormed into
Parliament, the Red House thatyou mentioned, which is where
Parliament is housed andconducts their matters and you
(15:50):
can see this video of ordinaryparliamentary proceedings,
interrupted by the sounds ofcommotion, of scuffling and
shuffling and people running andscrambling for cover, ducking
underneath desks.
It was the arrival and theinvasion of these militant
groups, these young men withguns, really, and holding
(16:13):
everyone there hostage untilfurther notice.
So it was really thiscoordinated strike effort
happening with more or lesssimultaneously and that hit what
they saw as the major painpoints, or maybe the major
points of command of a country.
You control a major media outlet, be it a tv or a radio station.
(16:37):
You uh control parliament,where all of the politicians
were I should mention the primeminister himself was also at
Parliament, so he was heldhostage then by default as well
and you address the nation tolet them know that we are now
the ones in charge.
I do go on into the essay tospeak as to how this game plan,
(16:58):
which has repeated itselfthroughout history and countries
across history, is in somesense one doomed to folly.
And uh, yeah, so we could speakas to how it did not work and
how it seems to never work, forall of these would be, uh, I
guess, dictator.
Well, we, we don't even know ifhe would have been a dictator.
He never even made it that far,but these would be leaders of
(17:23):
coup.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And I definitely want to add that sort of you know,
in addition to this moment.
There are people who are shot.
I believe the prime ministerwas also shot.
Several others were shot.
I believe around 20 to 30 liveswere lost during the coup.
There is also a loot out thatresults, as a part of the coup,
causing sort of millions ofdollars in damages, and so I
(17:48):
think, in some ways, when we'recontextualizing coups, it's
obviously, like you know, on onehand, the organization, but
there was clearly a spilloutright that goes even beyond this
, to to, I think, furthercontextualize the moment that we
were talking about earlier ofcourse, and one of one of the
first things that abubakar sayson his tv address.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Again, you can go watch this on youtube.
He says at so-and-so time thegovernment was overthrown, uh,
the revolutionary forces arecommanding the streets, and so
on, you know, he says thereshall be no looting, which was
addressing the public at large,which you know.
He probably knew what wascoming, because there then
(18:31):
followed a lot of looting.
So I'm just going back tospeaking to that sense of
surreality For me.
I just remember that I used to.
I was staying with mygrandmother, my aunt.
We used to go for these walksevery day around the
neighborhood.
Very lovely, one of thehighlights of my day, walking
with auntie Lovern holding herhand.
Granny Sylvia would be home.
(18:52):
And then I just remember, likeone day it was just we can't go
for a walk, and I was just soconfused, I was so, you know,
upset about it, and then the dayafter we couldn't go for it,
and the day after, and I justremember this sense of like
tension and you know, in yourchild's limited point of view,
you're just aware that, oh,something is happening and
there's a reason why everyone isworried and there's a reason
(19:13):
why there isn't as muchmovements going about.
People are kind of staying home, being guarded, and maybe I
thought it might have been likean adventure, a game.
You know it's nice to haveeveryone around.
But I do remember perceivingthe sense of something unusual
is happening and it seems as ifpeople aren't as happy as they
(19:39):
ordinarily are.
In the meantime, people weregetting shot, losing their lives
.
The prime minister was shot inhis life.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I also sort of want us to underscore.
We talk about coups and theimmediate impact, right, but
also the sort of like generalimpact that you're getting at,
right, that you know it sort ofno longer felt safe in a way,
Right, that you know it sort ofno longer felt safe in a way not
(20:07):
being able to go on these walks, Right.
But also, I think, even beyondthat, the state was sort of
transformed, or even sort ofsocial relationships amongst
communities transformed.
I'm sure you know we don't eventhink of Islamic extremist
groups being something that'sreally coming out of the
Caribbean, especially at thattime, right.
And so what for you, do youthink really helped to to sort
(20:31):
of underscore the aftermath ofit, a nation's understanding of
who they are?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Even in the instance, in the rare instances, that a
coup is successful, then that issome sense a total rewriting of
what your country now is,depending on who is in charge,
what their plans for the countryare.
It's a very rapid and a verysudden, a very jarring
(21:11):
reordering of priorities, ofidentity, of the definition of
what it means to be a citizen ofthis country.
So those are in the few thatactually do succeed.
The vast majority do fail.
Nonetheless, it still does givethat version of a shock wherein
(21:34):
the kind of country you thoughtyou were living in may be
revealed to be another.
I think, in the case ofTrinidad, be revealed to be
another.
I think, in the case ofTrinidad, that revelation
happens in a few parts, in a fewsteps.
(21:54):
First, as we have been saying,is the initial shock of that
something like this could happenat all that there are living
amongst us those who would takeup arms and use violence as a
means of achieving their ends ina nation that prided itself on
the democratic tradition.
That tradition has its ownflaws.
(22:14):
It continues to have flaws inall of its renditions today,
trinidad included.
But it was at least the destinywe had chosen for ourselves as
to how to shape our politicalyou know futures going back from
1962, the moment ofindependence onwards.
(22:34):
So the fact that I could fomentand take shape a large enough
and a determined enough, apowerful enough and a
well-supported enough of a groupthat they're willing to kind of
make this affront to thisnational agreement that we have
had, that is, and of itself, itsown shock.
You didn't know that.
You lived in a country in whichthat would ever be on the table
(22:59):
.
Then the second shock and thisdoesn't always happen, but it
did happen in the case forTrinidad and I make the argument
it's happened in the case ofthe US.
The second shock is the shockthat can happen if nothing is
done afterwards, if there are noconsequences.
That then results.
(23:21):
So, to give a little bit of areturn to the history synopsis,
this Attenda coup.
It lasted for six days.
While they had the primeminister hostage, they did get
him to sign amnesty agreementssaying that you know they were
clear in the eyes of the law.
This is while you know, again,he's a hostage.
(23:43):
They shot him in the leg andthey're like hey, sign this.
Of course he signs it.
One would expect that thiswould not stand the rigor, the
testing, a court of law.
They would get thrown outpost-haste but, as Trinidad
would go on to find out in themonths that followed, it did in
fact stand the test of thecourts.
(24:05):
It was held up.
These men were in fact grantedamnesty and were ultimately,
maybe after a few months, werefree to go and return to their
lives as regular citizens inTrinidad and Tobago.
Abu Bakr himself, you know, diedof old age not too long ago.
You know constantly speakingout against the government
(24:26):
during his time.
Maybe some of that was fair,maybe some of that was not, but
the fact of the matter is thathe was out here amongst us.
So, going back, so that is asecond kind of shock, and I
think it's the kind of shockthat is extremely rare.
Well, it's rare enough to havea coup, so, amongst coups, their
failure is not rare.
(24:47):
But what is rare after that isthe lack of consequence, and
that, I think, is the shock that, for Trinidadians, kind of
became like a longer running, aslower burning.
It's this recalibration of whoyou were, it's a recalibration
of the country you thought thatyou were living in.
(25:10):
It's one thing to have yourlaws written on a piece of paper
, few are the moments in whichthey are tested in this drastic
of a manner, rare are thosemoments and, because of their
rarity, extremely consequentialare these moments.
So to fail this test ofstanding by your laws, standing
(25:30):
by the order that you wish foryourselves, for the safety of
those you love and for thefuture of your country, to fail
that test, I think, brings aboutconsequences that are long
running, slow burning, but that,I would argue, continue to
reverberate today and puts youon a different path of national
(25:52):
identity than you probablyotherwise would have been, one
somewhat more compromised, onethat you know has failed in a
major way.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
And even the Muslimin , right, I think, as you're
saying, right, we oftentimesthink of coups and when they're
over, they're over, you know,groups disbanded et cetera, but
Muslimin goes on to continue andof course, you know, is, in
sort of the my reading stillobviously viewed with suspicion
(26:23):
and you know that has carriedforward since 1990.
Um, but just the sort of rarityof this moment, I think, is
sort of has very multiple thingsthat we're not used to seeing,
right, let alone back then in1990 agreed and just very
quickly the the reason why thisstory was even became of initial
(26:44):
interest to me just growing upin Trinidad.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So you know, it's sad to say, but crime in Trinidad
is not great, by which I meanit's quite bad, and growing up
it would always just be likelike a casual talking point
amongst people, people like Iremember I just met like an old
soldier one time who who wassaying, like you know, the
(27:08):
moment that we really went offcourse was after the coup, when
nothing happened to these menand there was a sense of, well,
anything is anything, anyone cando anything.
There's no real ultimateconsequences to your actions and
or, in this case, your crimes.
Whether or not that is true, Ithink, is always going to be
(27:31):
open for debate.
But it was the question, it wasthe sentiment that I wanted to
kind of explore further in thepiece, especially because it was
just such a piece of kind ofcommon colloquial knowledge my
entire time growing up.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That point also leads me to my next question, because
the common knowledge of it itobviously you know we're talking
about Trinidad, so it's goingto show up in a calypso right.
It's going to show up as partof our culture, our music
culture particularly that has sotremendously historicized our
experiences right Throughout thecourse of Strictly Facts.
(28:06):
We have always connected theways that these moments or these
figures in our history haveshowed up in our popular culture
, not just in a sense to singabout right, but to sort of
memorialize or, you know, ensurethat the understanding of these
moments carry on into thefuture generations.
And so for you, what are sortof some of your favorite
(28:30):
examples of how this history andthis moment shows up in
Trinidadian popular culture?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
You know, and it's so curious that you say that I'm
going to confess off the batthat it's a bit difficult for me
to think of a lot of examples.
Only one really comes to mindand you know, I like want to say
maybe that has something to sayabout our collective amnesia,
et cetera, et cetera.
But I would err on the personalfault side.
(28:58):
Maybe it's just my ownshortcoming and not being as
savvy as to what the variousappearances in arts and media
are.
The main thing that comes tomind is a song by David Rudder,
1990, one of our greatCalypsonians, 1990, of course,
being the year in which thisevent took place For everyone
(29:21):
listening.
I do encourage you to go andlook up the song itself.
I do not remember the words, butthere is a refrain during the
chorus.
It says 1990, please make aliar of me.
And what the song talks about.
It's the sense of 1990.
It's the beginning of a newdecade.
You're looking forward to thefuture, almost the end of the
(29:44):
century, and there would havebeen at that point in time a
sense of you know again all thatTrinidad could be, all that the
region could be, trinidad andTobago could be, and in some
sense, how that spirit ofoptimism would have been
compromised by the end of 1990.
(30:06):
So he has.
This refrain says 1990, pleasemake a liar of me.
So the speaker of the songhimself, I think, has probably
imbued a little bit of thisnegative outlook as a result,
and he's asking of the airplease make a liar of me, please
, please, don't let this be thedestiny that we have actually
(30:31):
been set on.
That's again.
That's my loose memory of whatthe song is about.
I do remember that line.
I should go and look this up alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think it's Jose right.
Is that the song?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
No, the song is called 1990.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh, okay, I think there's a few of them that I
think Rudder talks about.
So 1990s is one, Jose I believeis another one.
I also know.
Cro-cro has a song Say a Prayerfor Abu Bakr yes, yes, yes, yes
, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Okay, great, so going back to everything I was saying
.
I am pinning this down to myown.
Like I need to justre-familiarize myself some more.
I'm taking that blame 100%.
All these are songs that assoon as I hear them, I know them
.
But to bring them upindependently is where I'm
struggling.
But yes, sorry, and if you havemore, I would love for you to
(31:26):
go on.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Those are the songs that come to mind, but I
definitely also wanted to upholdanother podcast that had, in
the past, done a little bit moreof an investigation of this,
done a little bit more of aninvestigation of this and, I
think, very in tune to thingsthat I love in terms of history,
captures, some of the audio ofcertain broadcast or people who
(31:50):
were, you know, sort of caughtup in this moment.
I believe, like one of them wasone of the police who were
involved, etc.
And soibbean investigativejournalism network podcast has a
few episodes that reallyexplore this moment, um, and
they go on to in other episodesalso sort of talk about the
(32:12):
impact of the coup, not justfrom the standpoint of the coup
itself, but also, um, the sortof like global threat of
terrorism that obviously occursas a result as well.
When we think of terrorism,it's sort of thought of that
thing that happens over in theMiddle East, sort of way.
(32:32):
Right, but to some extent andif listeners are interested and
want to learn more about this,the Muslim mean sort of becomes
a pathway for those in thecaribbean, um, who might be
targeted.
I don't know if that's the word, but you know, sort of um, yeah
(32:54):
, sort of moving towards more umextremist leanings, and so for
those who want to check that out, I definitely um recommend that
podcast as well.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, of course.
And then you know, when ISISwas dominating a little bit more
of the cultural imagination,five, six, seven years ago,
there were multiple stories ofTrinidadians who made their way
over to the Middle East in orderto join and be recruited, be
(33:25):
radicalized, if you will, Ibelieve on a per capita basis,
which sometimes per capita as ametric I find is a bit specious,
but on a per capita basis Ibelieve we had one of the higher
recruitment rates in theWestern Hemisphere before ISIS.
Mind you, our population is 1.3million.
So you know, I'm sure if thereare like four people who went,
(33:47):
then that would put you quitehigh up there, but it is worth
saying.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, and something that, as well, the same podcast,
caribbean InvestigativeJournalism Network, really
expands upon.
I want to end on a particularnote, because I think, as we've
talked about it thus far, theinception of the coup has caused
a bit of confusion.
(34:13):
In some sense, it could be andas we sort of explored it's been
one of the lesser known coupsin the region, and so we're now
at the point where it's 35 yearslater, right, I think,
especially for at least mygeneration it can be very easy
to think, oh, these thingshappened hundreds of years ago,
(34:33):
right, but this is not one ofthose events.
And so how do you think thememory of the coup, or sort of
the lack thereof, has reallyimpacted who we are as a people,
or what the state of Trinidadand Tobago eventually evolved or
has since evolved into, andwhat can we do better regarding
(34:53):
that sort of memory?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
One of the great joys and one of the unignorable
frustrations of being that ourregion has been able to have on
the world and that trinidadiansat large are able to step beyond
our borders or beyond ourboundaries.
And do you find trinidadianseverywhere, in all places, doing
all manner of things.
And we're such curious people,multifaceted people, and I think
(35:48):
it's something to be said ofthat history, of how complicated
, at times brutal, and then also, you know, at the same time,
enriching, of a history.
It can be where you it's likethis, natural, human experiments
, you know wherein, maybe not sonatural, not everyone, you know
(36:12):
, just there, by chance, right,but you know there are just so
many ingredients into what ittakes to be Caribbean in the
first place, ingredients intowhat it takes to be Caribbean in
the first place, be that Africa, be that Europe, be that India,
be that within those continents, those subgroups, from the
(36:32):
Portuguese, the French, westAfrican to East African, and, as
a result, I think that there'ssuch like a richness of thought,
that there's such like arichness of thought, there's
such a curiosity about like lifeand, for me, about language.
I think the the type of englishwe speak, the type of language
we speak, has been particularlyenriching and empowering for me
(36:52):
as a writer per se.
I think it lends me a lens,that I feel that I have an
advantage, um, as a result, oversome of my you know, maybe less
exposed peers.
Anyway, that's just in that oneexample, but you could expand
that to sports, economics, topolitics, what have you?
And you grow up so just veryaware of just how talented
(37:16):
people around you are,especially as a kid, when you're
there in school.
And then once you hit kind oflike the 20s or 30s, where I am
now, something happens and thatraw pool of talent you feel as
if has begun to fizzle aroundyou and now your attention just
trains itself and it's okay.
Well, what the next generationis going to do, we may or may
(37:39):
not have that same experience.
So we have so much potential,but then what happened
generation is going to do, whomay or may not have that same
experience.
So they're all like we're.
You know, we have so muchpotential, but then like what
happened, so that I think justspeaks to kind of like the fate
of the country at large, therewere, like there were such these
key, pivotal moments where itfelt as if we could have been
something else.
One of them that I mentioned inthe essay and this speaks to
(38:02):
the region at large is in the1950s, 10 Caribbean nations,
spearheaded by Jamaica andTrinidad, English-speaking
countries nearly came togetherand made a federation, and that
is something that would have hadour own currency, free travel
between borders and form aneconomic block by which some of
(38:27):
the predatory arrangements thatorganizations like the IMF and
the World Bank later enactedupon the region.
It is easier to imagine usbeing more resilient against
those and using the shared senseof pool, resources and access
and ability to take that nextstep as the second half of the
(38:48):
20th century unfolded.
Sorry for this very long answer, um, but um, one country pulled
out jamaica and you guysfollowed, so no matter what, is
that right?
continue right at home, primeminister made a very like, a
(39:08):
little cool point.
Yeah, he says one from tenleaves zero, which is not
accurate math, but it is, youknow, like a nice little visual
quip, right.
So and so that moment we likelost and and who knows what
would have happened.
And I already mentioned whatgoes on to happen with the IMF
and the World Bank and thepresence of the CIA in the
region.
We don't have to get into allthat, but these are the kinds of
(39:30):
fates that we were thensubjected to by making ourselves
weaker than we otherwise wouldhave been have been.
So too, I would argue, is thecase with, not the coup per se,
but in that period of time, inlike the 80s, into the, the like
90s, where our wealth as acountry was just coming into
(39:53):
being.
Yes, there were moments ofdownturn, but there was still
this the sense of abundance, thesense of wealth, the sense of
possibility, going back into the70s onwards, and what might the
country had been had thoseresources, had those
opportunities been harnessed ina way that was truly altruistic,
that was truly taken intoaccount the fate of a country
(40:15):
and the people, as opposed tothe welfare of a smaller
controlling class.
The coup kind of resulted as aresponse to that, and I think
the secondary consequence of thecoup is that the fact that
nothing was done meant that notonly were you a joking country
(40:35):
when it came to ensuring thefate of your people, you're also
joking country when it came tokind of enforcing your laws and
to being a country of principle,anyway.
So I might have lost the threadin your question itself, but
this is something that you knowI can get quite riled up about.
I just guess I spent a lot oftime just imagining the Trinidad
(41:01):
we could have been, theCaribbean we could have been.
I will also say that I don'tmention all this just to remain
pessimistic, but for us to kindof be aware of what our fate so
far has been and what we can andhopefully should continue to
shape it to be and learn fromsome of these lessons.
I read a great quote fromCicero today that said not to
(41:30):
know what happened before onewas born is always to be a child
, and it stuck with me.
So I don't want us to continueto be children in the global
stage.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
That's beautifully said and I appreciate you for
bringing up that point Because,again, the point of even
strictly facts, it's not justmerely to know the things that
happened you know, everybodycould just read the book and or
whatever Google facts and carryon about our lives more or less
but really ultimately, having usunderstand who we've been, what
(42:04):
we've gone through, where we'recoming from, to really
understand how we continue togrow and evolve.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
So I like.
The thing is I say this in thepiece as well the problem is
that the governments do needchange.
Trinidad does need drasticchange, I'm sure Jamaica does
need drastic change, and whatthe powers that be and what the
people at large kind of likeneed to realize is that if we
don't start to make that changein a way that's like healthy and
(42:34):
that's respectful and thathonors like who we are, then the
alternatives become thesemoments of madness, of intensity
, of harm and destruction andruin that still don't change
anything, but that's theconsequence there.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
I fully agree and I think you know, for our
listeners who want to furthercheck out your work, I'll link
you know several of your otherpieces in our show notes and on
our Sturley Facts syllabus, butI think you know your piece
Sisyphus in the Capitol CrimePunishment and the Legacy of
Trinidad and Tobago's FailedCoup really underscores a lot of
(43:13):
what we're saying, right, notjust about the moment itself but
really how we come tounderstand the aftermath.
So I thank you for joining usfor this episode, for sharing
you know, both from a personallens about your experiences, but
also having this conversationwith me and how we come to even
understand these situationstoday.
(43:35):
Thank you for having me Ofcourse you know it's a family
thing, so we're all I will tellthem.
So with that, everyone I hopeyou appreciated and you know
really enjoyed this episode.
Be sure to check out ourStrictly Facts syllabus for more
links to you know things we'vereferenced and several other
(43:56):
pieces where you can learn aboutthe coup and in several other
moments, just you know, aroundthe 80s and 90s in trinidad as
well I want to give a big shoutout to qrc, to hk and to the
glorious bastards.
Boom, boom of course you have tobig up, we have to big up,
which is right, um, and so tillnext time, everyone look more.
(44:18):
All right, thanks for tuning into strictly facts.
Visit strictly facts podcastcomfor more information from each
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