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What drives someone to pick up a camera and document untold Caribbean history with no formal training? For Richard Vaughn, it was a simple realization: the political stories that shaped the modern Caribbean were either missing from film archives or told through a heavily biased lens. Vaughn takes us on his remarkable journey from curious Jamaican-American to award-winning documentary filmmaker. With us, he describes what would become "The Love Trilogy" – three powerful documentaries examining pivotal Caribbean political figures: Michael Manley of Jamaica, the Grenada Revolution, and Cheddi Jagan of Guyana. The trilogy's name emerged organically from Manley's own words about his political movement: "The word is love."
The conversation weaves together reflections on Caribbean self-determination, the connection between political movements and cultural expressions like reggae music, and practical advice for aspiring documentarians. Vaughn's simple guidance resonates beyond filmmaking: identify what needs preserving in your community's history, start with whatever resources you have, and persist despite obstacles. Listen now to discover how documentary film serves as both historical preservation and a tool for balanced understanding of the Caribbean's complex political landscape. What stories in your community deserve similar documentation?
Richard Vaughan born in New York to Jamaican immigrants in 1980. Driven by a passion for his culture and determination to educate and tell stores that history often forgets. Winner of the Madrid International Filmmaker Festival 2017 for Best Editing of a Documentary and the 2017 Van Gogh Award: Prodigy Auteur at the 2017 Amsterdam Film Festival for his second documentary Rolling Along: An Inline Movement. Previous credits include The Word is Love: Jamaica's Michael Manley (2012), Rolling Along: An Inline Movement (2017), Four Years of Love: The Grenada Revolution (2021), The Price of Love: Cheddi Jagan (2024). Films available here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, hosted byme, alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Hello, hello, waukwa andeveryone.
(00:22):
Welcome back to Strictly Facts,a guide to Caribbean history
and culture, where, as always,we are talking about all the
stories that have shaped who weare throughout Caribbean history
.
I'm your host, alexandra Miller, and today we're exploring a
crucial but, you know, sometimesunderappreciated part of the
way that our history ispreserved, and that is the art
(00:42):
and labor of documentaryfilmmaking that our history is
preserved, and that is the artand labor of documentary
filmmaking.
We've been on a little bit of ajourney of filmmakers and
talking about film histories alittle bit, and so I definitely
wanted to extend this discussiona little bit further, and so,
in my view, really,documentaries do more than just
record the past.
They give voice to theoverlooked, they stitch together
(01:03):
the fragments of memory andchallenge us to see ourselves
more clearly.
Behind every powerfuldocumentary is a filmmaker who
must not only research anduncover hidden narratives, but
also craft them with care,creativity and a fierce
commitment to the truth.
Their work requires not justtechnical skill but also
ingenuity to navigate obstaclesfrom limited funding to
(01:26):
difficult interviews I'm surewe'll get a little bit into that
today and a deep respect forthe communities whose stories
they are interested to tell.
Today we are joined by RichardVaughn, an award-winning
documentary filmmaker whoseworks have illuminated
tremendous parts of our history,particularly from the 20th
century, and so we'll be talkingabout Richard's works today,
(01:48):
some of the challenges andrewards, really, of filmmaking
and of documenting the regionand our stories moving forward.
And so, richard, thank you somuch for joining us for this
episode of Strictly Facts.
Why don't you kick us off withtelling our listeners a little
bit more about you, whatinspired your love of filmmaking
and, of course, give a shoutout to where in the Caribbean
you call home?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Okay, thank you so much, alexandra, for having me
on.
So I'm Richard Vaught.
I'm originally from New York,my family's Jamaican.
My mother and father areJamaican, my grandparents the
whole way back generations downin Jamaica.
What got me started indocumentary filmmaking was it
was in 2005.
I had this is when I had movedfrom New York to California.
I just was looking around forfilms.
(02:30):
I'm like, where are all thefilms on, like Michael Manley,
where are these films?
Where can I find them?
So there were none.
I said maybe I should make oneand then I said, nah, I can't do
that.
And one of my friends had toldme at the time he goes, why not?
And I said I don't have thetime.
I don't know how to make a film.
Are you crazy?
So fast forward to 2010,.
I had met someone who wasactually in college at the time.
(02:52):
She was actually a master'sdegree student and she was at a
community college just taking afilmmaking course.
I saw a book that they had inthe class and that they had in
the class and it was called likeum, shut up and shoot a
documentary filmmaker's guidevery guerrilla filmmaking, just
get your camera and shoot.
So I was like all right, let'ssee what this book says.
(03:13):
So I read the book and I waslike, okay, I think it's really
possible for me to do this.
So at that point I startedgathering materials for mainly
Michael Manley, because MichaelManley has always been a
inspiration to me, cause Iremember growing up in New York
I would always see like oldinterviews would come on the TV
of Michael Manley and my fatherwould be watching and like
cheering and my mother told mestories of when she was a little
(03:34):
girl and they went to meetingswith her father and Norman
Manley would be there.
So it was always like amysterious mystique.
Jamaican politics in myhousehold.
My parents weren't really likemainly political, they weren't
like forcing political ideas onus, it's just like, hey, this is
what we know and these are likeour politicians.
So yeah, so come to 2010.
(03:56):
I started just getting michaelmanley's books started finding I
just do a lot of searching, alot of ebay purchases, because a
lot of these books were not inprint anymore gathering all
these materials together to makethe film.
So I just started reading onebook after the other is taking
notes on the books because, um,I graduated from college in 2003
with a degree in psychology abachelor's degree in psychology
(04:19):
and a minor in business so Iwasn't like trained for doing
filmmaking or research.
I just started doing it becauseit's something I felt
passionate about and, um yeah,so I started doing the research.
Um started pretty much likesaving every little penny I
could at the time to get acamera, and my grandmother was
the one who gave me the last$300 I needed to purchase the
(04:39):
camera.
So that's why in the MichaelManley film you'll see her name
as an executive producer.
Oh yeah, so that's how I reallygot started.
It's been really great.
Since then, it's been reallygood.
Everyone who I've interviewedor contacted has always been
like number one.
They're shocked that someone'scalling them to like interview
them and they're also the next.
The next shock is that Iactually show up in film.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So it's always just been um good interviews so far I
always love to hear people'sstories and even, um, you know,
I was really touched just inhearing how your grandmother
invested in your dream, right?
I think oftentimes we we havethese, these moments, right that
it's sometimes later down alongthe on the path of our journeys
(05:21):
that we're like.
You know, granny really didlook out for me, you know, when
everybody else wanted me tobecome Dr Laya, engineer,
whatever, you know, there arejust, of course, the ways that
our people show up for us and so, really, you know, moved by
your story and, of course,really grateful to have you on
the podcast.
That introduction brings us, ofcourse, to your company today,
(05:43):
right, spirit of 38 Productions,which you know from reading
your bio and website.
I know a little bit about, butdo you want to tell our
listeners why Spirit of 38?
I'll gush about a little bitmore after you tell us more
about it and just sort of theintentional focus of creating
(06:04):
this company really to supportCaribbean filmmaking and your
exploration of Caribbeandocumentaries.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yes, of course.
So yes, spirit of 38Productions.
I was doing my research forMichael Manley the Word is Love,
jamaica's Michael Manley and Iwas reading about the 1938
worker riots in Jamaica and Iwas like, hmm, 1938, interesting
.
I was reading some more againthat I said, hmm, 1838, the
abolition of slavery in the WestIndies.
I like interesting, 100 yearslater they rise up again.
(06:34):
So like it's 2038 gonna be thenext awakening for the for the
West Indies and the region.
So that's where I kind of gotthe um idea for the spirit of 38
, like that spirit of survival,of standing up for yourself, of,
you know, overcoming yourchallenges, of bringing the
spirit of rebellion pretty much.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
You know, when I was reading it, as I was sort of
alluding to a little bit earlier, I said yes, it's true, you
know, it's just, it clicked forme too.
So I definitely also want us tosort of sit with and unpack
what you had mentioned earlier Alittle bit of just about the
lack of access to documentariesand stuff, films on the region
(07:17):
that you sort of had noticed inthe early 2000s.
I mean, of course you can talkgenerally just about the fact
that there were very few films,but what sort of gaps did you
see present in documentaries ofthe Caribbean that you hope to
sort of answer, not just withinthese three films that we're
going to be spotlighting in amoment, but just overall through
(07:38):
Spirit of 38 Productions?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
just really to get the information out there,
because a lot of the um, the,the research materials, or the,
the news broadcasts, were prettyone-sided.
They didn't tell the full storyfrom the side of um, say,
michael manley's side, or shayjagen, or the grenada revolution
as a whole.
For example, for grenade, I sawa lot of stuff from that came
from the Reagan Library.
So I was like, okay, this isgoing to be heavily tilted one
direction and not give the fullpicture, and a lot of books are.
(08:10):
Usually they just focus on oneside of the story.
They don't really branch outfurther than what their subject
is.
I want to create films that wereright down the middle as
possible and let the people whoI interview tell the story.
Were, you know, right down themiddle as possible and let the
people who I interviewed tellthe story.
And then I go through and umfact check all that to make sure
it's at least accurate towhat's in the historical record
(08:31):
that I can get my hands on.
So that's really the gaps is.
There's a lot of films that arejust most of them are not even
to the left, they're mostly tothe right, and I just wanted to
like bridge that gap wherehere's a.
A film that's like right in thecenter tells a full story.
You, as the audience, can makeyour decision on it.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, and I think you know timing, I think, is
interesting, just because Ithink there is definitely a
wealth of some more of thesesort of materials a little bit
available now, right, but I'msure you know, for the previous
generation, these access to evenyou know some of the radio
(09:10):
broadcasts or the TV broadcasts,as you were mentioning, right,
the ways that technology hasdefinitely shifted more recently
as opposed to you know, evenour parents' generations and
things to that nature, thataccess I, I think is really
critical and one that wedefinitely benefit more from now
as well.
But also it requires us to sortof go back and know about these
(09:34):
things.
Right, for you, it was yourparents sort of shepherding and
telling you about Manly, etcetera, right, whereas if you
didn't sort of have that, youmight not necessarily know where
to look.
And so I want us to sit withthis moment and sort of talk
about this trilogy of films thatI found really tremendous.
So the documentaries are firstly, the World is Love, jamaica's
(09:56):
Michael Manley.
Next one, four Years of Love,the Grenada Revolution.
And the final one, the Price ofLove, chedi Chagin.
And so, for you, what was sortof the impetus for you wanting
to create these three Inparticular.
You've talked a little bitabout Manly but of course, just
sort of envisioning this overalltrilogy.
(10:17):
What was the intention behindputting these three political
leaders, situations and politicswithin the Caribbean,
especially because these are alllatter 20th century movements?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
yeah, first of all, it kind of came together once
again, during the research forum the word is love I was just,
you know, reading a lot of bookson michael, his, his text and
um, one biography that I wasable to get my hands on, and so,
throughout reading about it, Isaw pictures of like maurice
bishop I think it was a picturetaken at the one year
anniversary of the grenadarevolution, actually and so
(10:51):
maurice bishop and michaelmanley with this.
I was like, hmm, maurice bishop, I've always been interested in
him because I had a friend whowas grenadian and he told me
about maurice bishop once ortwice when we were in high
school.
And so, um, I was like, hmm,maybe one day I can make another
film on him, but not today.
We're focused on michael manley.
And so when I got to the end ofreading um, a biography, a book
(11:12):
on michael manley, it mentionedthat chetty jagan had died on
the same day as michael manley.
So I was like, I was like Iknow that name.
So I went and looked up chetty.
I'm like is very interesting.
I said maybe I could do him asa third film, but who knows if
I'll ever get to that.
This is back in 2010 when Istarted filming.
So I was like, maybe one dayI'll get all of them.
(11:34):
It can be like a trilogy offilms I had in my head, and so
it's.
When I came up with the titlefor the film, I was editing the
film and michael manley, in oneof the speeches within the film,
said um, um is.
This is a love movement.
We're not hating anyone.
I don't hate no businessman.
This is a love movement.
The word is love.
So I was like, oh, that's it.
That's the perfect title forthis film.
(11:54):
The word is love.
Jamaica's michael manley.
So I was like, okay, my dreamwould be a trilogy of films.
It's the love trilogy and it'sthree films in it, and those are
the three films having watchedthe films right, and
understanding the trajectory ofyour framework.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
That definitely adds to sort of my understanding of
the way that it came togetherfor you, right, and totally
makes sense.
When you know we sort of thinkabout the ways that these
political figures cross paths.
Right, we are a small butmighty.
You know little but tallow ourregion, and so it just makes so
much sense that you know yourengagement in wanting to
(12:29):
understand Michael Manley'shistory, right, would then also
potentially shift into theseother movements just at the time
, right?
Yes, what did you hope to addor change regarding the ways
that these moments arememorialized or historicized for
us through film like?
I'll share a little bit aboutwhat I found captivating in a
moment, but I'd definitely beinterested to hear from you
(12:52):
about your approach to makingthese films.
Um, just because you know youcould have done the sort of
general Michael Manley was bornon sort of thing, right, and
it'd be very bland, but I thinkyou crafted it in in really
interesting ways basically, Ijust wanted to tell the the
story, the main story of MichaelManley, like a lot of and it'd
be very bland, but I think youcrafted it in really interesting
(13:13):
ways.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Basically, I just wanted to tell the main story of
Michael Manley.
A lot of people funders.
Once I put the film togetherthey were only interested in the
1970s, they weren't interestedin the full picture of the man.
So I just wanted to give a fullpicture of this.
This is a guy who came fromupper middle class roots and
pretty much was in a politicalparty that expelled the left in
1954.
So he pretty much dragged theparty back to the left, pretty
(13:35):
much because the PNP was apretty much center left party,
has always been that way untilMichael Manley dragged them to
the left because in 1954 theyexpelled, the Marxist left wing
of the PNP was expelled.
So Michael Manley pretty muchin the 70s dragged them back to
the left.
And I just want to tell thewhole story of the man who.
He was not just in office butalso out of office and one of
(13:58):
the narratives I've discoveredthis was while filming Four
Years of Love, the GrenadaRevolution.
A lot of the information I readwas pretty much.
You know, in the West Indies we, like our main leader, like
he's the guy, he's the top guy.
You know you don't mess withthe top guy.
Around the Grenada Revolutionthere was this narrative of Cord
versus Bishop Cord, cordordering the assassination of
(14:21):
Bishop this and all these youknow, very muddy narratives were
around that story.
So when I was doing researchfor that film I was reading a
lot of books on what I couldfind on Maurice Bishop and
Bernard Court had just broughthis books.
So I was like something's notright here.
One side is saying one thing,one side is saying another thing
.
What's the correct story?
(14:42):
So I was lucky enough to findanother book collection, huge
book collection of all everysingle document that was
published for the trials ingrenada after the united states
invasion, um, all the researchmaterials.
They were all collected intocollections, books of each
individual topic.
So I was able to go throughthat and piece together what was
(15:02):
true.
So when I went and met b, I wasnumber one.
I was shocked of his, hisactual, his candor, his honesty
and the fact that what he said Iwas able to actually confirm
with historical, accuraterecords.
So I didn't want to tell peoplelike, oh, you're all wrong in
(15:23):
this, but I say this is thefacts here.
Here is what happened.
Here is what Bernard says.
Here is what the other recordwhat happened.
Here is what bernard says.
Here is what the other recordsays.
Here is what the officialrecord says.
Well, you can watch the film andsee, you know what the
situation was and what happened.
It wasn't just one man versusanother, it was an inter-party
discussion and something strangehappened on that day that made
(15:45):
them go to the floor.
That part is still a mysteryfor the most part from both
sides of the debate.
But, um, yeah, so that was onenarrative.
I wanted to, because in myheart of hearts I do not think
bernard court ordered anassassination based on the facts
that came out of since then.
And yes, that's that's onething I wanted to like.
I want people to take a look atboth sides and not just, you
(16:07):
know, fix it on one, one side ofit.
Yeah, I want people to take alook at both sides and not just
fix it on one side of it.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I think for me to sort of even add to your point,
I was really struck by the rangeof interviews that helped to
not just pit these politicians,or the moment in the decade in
which the heights that we knowthem for, you know, the decade
(16:31):
in which the heights that weknow them for, right, even
thinking to your film, the Priceof Love, chetty Jagan, you know
, even just interviews with hisfamily right With his daughters,
to underscore who he was as aperson, as a father, right,
these are all things that Ireally found instrumental in
sort of how we capture thesehistories.
You know, these are all thingsthat I really found instrumental
in sort of how we capture thesehistories.
You know, we've sort of beenjumping between the films, but
of course Michael Manley was,you know, one of Jamaica's prime
(16:56):
ministers.
The Grenada Revolution walksobviously through the Grenada
Revolution, and then ChettyJagan is the first elected chief
minister of what was thenBritish Guiana, but, you know,
become eventually, goes on toalso become premier and then
later president of Guyana in the90s, and so you've walked for
(17:17):
us mastering and the extent ofresearch right, but in terms of
sort of your interviewcollection, what was that
process like?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh, that stuff was always the fun part.
It's finding through, becausenot everyone is on Facebook, not
everyone is on LinkedIn.
It's really hard to find people.
So, for example, a lot of itcomes from word of mouth as well
.
When I do the film, someparticipants say, hey, this
guy's doing a film, you shouldreally go talk to him.
Like, for example, when Istarted the Michael Manley film,
I could not find any contactinformation for Rachel Manley.
(17:50):
So what I did was I had herbooks.
I'm like let me contact apublisher, tell them what I'm
looking for and what I'm doing,and maybe they can help me out.
So they actually passed on myemail to Rachel and she got in
touch with me and then when Ishowed up that day in Toronto to
interview her, she was shockedthat I showed up and we had a
great interview and she hadinvited Shirley Goldenberg,
(18:12):
whose husband was involved withthe negotiations during the
sugar strike in Jamaica, and soshe invited her to the interview
session so I was able tointerview her.
She asked another couple ofpeople she knew around the
Toronto area who were involvedwith Michael Manley, philip
Maskell and a couple others, andso she reached out to them to
(18:36):
get me in contact with them so Ican interview them as well.
So that's what happens a lot ofthe time.
For example, same with ChettyJagen, the Chetty Jagen Research
Center in Guyana.
I contacted them because I washaving trouble finding anyone
for this film and I contactedthem and so it was actually
Nadera who answered the email.
(18:56):
I didn't expect, I didn't thinkit would be her, and so she got
me in contact with everyone inthat film they had set up the
center in Georgetown.
For that week that I was therefilming, they had set it up so I
could actually go and filminterviews there, which was a
huge help because normally I'mrunning around from place to
place, especially in Jamaica.
(19:17):
My cousin Jerry Shout out toJerry, he's also listed as an
executive producer on theMichael Manley film because he
drove me to every location whenI was in Jamaica because he
lives out near Fort Littleport,montego bay area, like that,
just on the border, the twoparishes.
So we would be driving tokingston doing interviews this
day.
(19:37):
Driving to um up into saintanne, we had to do interview
arnold bertram and we got lostgoing up in them hills.
We didn't know where we weregoing.
It was so funny, um.
So, yeah, that's, that was thechallenge.
The challenge is actuallygetting to the location,
sometimes to film people, andalso actually finding people
that are.
You know, some people might not, may have passed away by now.
(19:58):
A lot of people, for example,that initially tried to contact
for chenny's film, they hadpassed away or they're in, like
you know, advanced age, sothey're they might be suffering
from, like you know, decline inof um mental facilities because
of age.
I've been lucky enough tocontact one person and then they
let other people know, forexample, um for the michael
(20:19):
manley film, um anthony bogues,who's actually a professor.
He was a professor at brown.
I don't know if he's stillthere, but he was.
He was there when I, when Iinterviewed him, he had put me
in contact with um Patsy Lewisand Brian Meeks because they
were also professors there.
So that day was really fun.
I was running all over campuswith because it's me by myself
with all my camera gear, lights,the camera bag, just like a
(20:42):
madman, trying to get to thedifferent locations.
So that's usually thechallenges.
Is um being a one-man film crew.
I schedule the interviews, Ifilm the interviews, I edit the
films, I put the films out.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I'm like the whole thing is pretty much like my
drive and um passion for sharingthese, this history, with the
people, with the worlddefinitely, I think, for you
know, particularly talking aboutmanly um, bishop and jagen, if
we want to put them togetherright, we can draw certain
similarities, whether that betheir, you know, political
(21:16):
ideals, as sort of like Marxistand socialist and things of who
these three figures were for theCaribbean, especially our sort
of move into post-colonialCaribbean history.
What did you find sort ofdistinguished them apart as
leaders and as individuals?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Distinguished them apart from where, from who?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
From each other.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
From each other.
Yes, that's a really goodquestion, because there's a lot
of similarities.
I think what separates them istime is a big separation,
because each of them had theirstruggles at different times and
and they each went throughpretty much the similar things.
(22:02):
If they may I don't know maybethey could all get on a phone
call and talk to each other.
At one point they could sort itout.
But same struggle, differenttime, is pretty much what it is.
Differences of approach wouldalso be.
Well, obviously, the GrenadaRevolution was a revolution.
They just, you know, eric Gehryleft.
They were like yeah, all right,we are now in control, we're
(22:25):
taking over.
This is our revolution.
That's a big difference.
The Grenada Revolution came topower obviously through a
revolutionary means.
Chetty Jagan and Michael Manleyboth came to power through
electoral processes.
Yeah, I think that's reallylike for the differences I can't
really see much.
I mean because there's a lotmore similarities than there are
differences, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
For our listeners who might be unfamiliar.
Do you want to share some ofthose similarities?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
all three of them are very much, um, left-leaning
politicians.
So michael manley, he was not acommunist.
I don't know, I mean, they'rejamaican.
I like to put the communistbogey on everything michael
manley was.
He was not a communist, he waspretty much a devout socialist,
I would say not far left, buthe's a left socialist, more left
than the PNP party.
Actually, the Great Air RaiderRevolution that film actually
(23:12):
deals with the whole story.
Because I'll tell you a littlebit about when I was making that
film.
I was initially going to makethe film on just Maurice Bishop
and then I realized I said no,this whole story is much bigger
than just one man, this is likea whole, it was a collective
thing.
So I had to tell the wholestory of the whole group and,
collective as it is.
(23:32):
So you know, that's a group ofpeople they came, who came to
power through revolutionarymeans and um, chetty Jagan was
elected.
Chetty Jagan was a Marxist,proud Marxist, never wavering in
that, to the very end, uh.
But of course he saw you knowit's not dogmatic he saw that he
had to adapt marxist principlesto guyana's situation and
that's how he um was able to,you know, still maintain, I
(23:56):
don't think the party itself isa marxist party.
It's a left party, but chedijakin himself, I know, is a
Marxist.
They may have Marxist, leninistidentity, but I don't think
most of the party members werethat far as Chetty was himself,
so that's really the similaritybetween them.
They're both left-leaningpoliticians.
All together they represent ourdrive and desire for
(24:22):
self-determination, gettingtheir nations out of colonial
dependence and actuallyapproaching the world and
working with the world on theirterms and not someone else's
terms, for the betterment of thepeople actually who live there
and not just companies that comein and use the resources.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Certainly, the other piece that you know I found
interesting in terms of just theways that some of these stories
are told, is the music that'schosen and all of these other
sort of additional features thatsort of help to round out the
time period right.
And so I'm always interested inhearing from people what are
(25:04):
those sort of ways that thesehistories show up in popular
culture that you foundintriguing right, be that a song
, be that.
You know you also mentionedsome of the books, the
autobiographies, etc.
So what are those things thatare sort of stand out for you
for listeners who, after theydefinitely go and check out
these films, would like to sortof do some further research?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I mean especially reggae music of the
70s that's heavily influenced bythe political climate of the
time.
And there's some artists outthere like Max Romeo Because in
Jamaica the whole bandwagonscame along with the politicians
as they traveled through thecountry spreading the the
message, trying to get peopleout to vote and so artists like
(25:49):
bob marley, peter tosh, you knowthe wailers bunny wailer maybe
not, maybe that bunny buddy, buthe was pretty much opposed to
it dealing with any of them butdefinitely peter tosh and bob
marley were known um at earlysupporters of michael manley at
that time.
I won't say the pnp, but I saidmichael manley's vision for j
Manley at that time.
I won't say the PNP but I'llsay Michael Manley's vision for
Jamaica at that time.
Definitely their music isdefinitely very heavily
(26:09):
influenced by the politicalclimate of the time.
For Grenada, I would saythere's not much that I was able
to find in pop culture thatalluded to that.
It was very, very hard to findinformation that's not skewed to
the right.
It's very obvious that it wasvery, very hard to find
information that that's notskewed to the right.
It's very obvious that it'svery conservative literature or
(26:30):
like news clips or things likethat that were put out by like
us news stations at that timewere very heavily um skewed to
some false narrative.
And for chedi um, there is anupcoming um biography coming out
on chedi jagen.
They are working on that rightnow.
They released a lot.
There's a film on janet jagenthat's actually really good um.
(26:52):
It's called thundering guyana.
It's um.
It's about the story of umjanet jagen, which is chedi
jagen's wife and um.
You can learn about her, herside of the story, more from
that film.
Um and, of course, learn learnfrom from Jenny's side from my
film.
But yeah, if you want to learnmore, you can watch Thunder and
Guyana to get Janet's side ofthe story as well.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I love filmmaking and I love, you know, unpacking, as
we've done our conversationtoday the impetus, the journey
of creating a film, right, and Ithink sometimes we think of it
as being a very onerous processor that it has to.
You know, it has to be on somebig event or whatever, right,
(27:34):
when you know we can makedocumentaries on our own
families, or you know ourgrandparents stories, et cetera,
right, and so what advice wouldyou have for our listeners who
are maybe interested in pursuingsort of whether it's similar
sorts of documentary work or,you know, whether that be on
major movements and figures oreven just on their own familial
(27:57):
and personal stories?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, I think that the number one thing to do is to
actually just start do it likeno matter what it takes.
I mean you, the money is a lot.
It does take a lot.
Um, for example, when I startedout, I don't have much more
money at this moment in my life,but when I started out I had
less.
But you know I would starve.
(28:19):
Not like stuff like, oh, I'mgonna pass out, I'm not, you
know, I'll just cut back on food.
So I eat very basic stuff.
Save as much money as I can,just to get the process going,
because just to keep the drivegoing, just to keep the passion
good, if you, if you really feelit's something you want to
bring out to the world, justjust go with it.
People will appreciate it inthe end.
Yeah so, but the thing is justto start.
(28:39):
That's the hardest part is justto start.
But once you do, just justdon't stop.
Just keep going until you canmake it happen, you know
certainly.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I mean, I agree, um, it's one of those things that
you know, just you sort of haveto just jump in and try.
Um, but you know, I cannotrecommend enough.
I think this trilogy of filmsare so deeply ingrained into I I
just cannot commend you enoughfor the, I think, tremendous
work that you've done.
Right, um, you definitely getunpackings of these movements,
(29:15):
or um, you know, politicalfigures in really integral ways,
and I, of course, will be sureto link them on our website and
also in the show notes for ourlisteners who want to check them
out.
And so, again, the films arethe World is Love, jamaica's
Michael Manley, four Years ofLove, the Grenada Revolution and
the Price of Love, chetty Jagan.
So, richard, thank you so muchfor, you know, being a part of
(29:38):
the Strictly Facts, as we'vebeen talking about films and
filmmaking, and again, for ourlisteners, check out these
trilogy of films because I thinkthey're just beautifully done
and readily accessible for us.
There's no, you know, gianthurdles and things for you to
check out.
They will be linked on ourwebsite and in our show notes.
So till next time, look more.
(29:59):
Thanks for tuning in tostrictlyrictly Facts.
Visit strictlyfactspodcastcomfor more information from each
episode.
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at Strictly Facts PD on Twitter.
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, hosted byme, alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Hello, hello, waukwa andeveryone.
(00:22):
Welcome back to Strictly Facts,a guide to Caribbean history
and culture, where, as always,we are talking about all the
stories that have shaped who weare throughout Caribbean history
.
I'm your host, alexandra Miller, and today we're exploring a
crucial but, you know, sometimesunderappreciated part of the
way that our history ispreserved, and that is the art
(00:42):
and labor of documentaryfilmmaking that our history is
preserved, and that is the artand labor of documentary
filmmaking.
We've been on a little bit of ajourney of filmmakers and
talking about film histories alittle bit, and so I definitely
wanted to extend this discussiona little bit further, and so,
in my view, really,documentaries do more than just
record the past.
They give voice to theoverlooked, they stitch together
(01:03):
the fragments of memory andchallenge us to see ourselves
more clearly.
Behind every powerfuldocumentary is a filmmaker who
must not only research anduncover hidden narratives, but
also craft them with care,creativity and a fierce
commitment to the truth.
Their work requires not justtechnical skill but also
ingenuity to navigate obstaclesfrom limited funding to
(01:26):
difficult interviews I'm surewe'll get a little bit into that
today and a deep respect forthe communities whose stories
they are interested to tell.
Today we are joined by RichardVaughn, an award-winning
documentary filmmaker whoseworks have illuminated
tremendous parts of our history,particularly from the 20th
century, and so we'll be talkingabout Richard's works today,
(01:48):
some of the challenges andrewards, really, of filmmaking
and of documenting the regionand our stories moving forward.
And so, richard, thank you somuch for joining us for this
episode of Strictly Facts.
Why don't you kick us off withtelling our listeners a little
bit more about you, whatinspired your love of filmmaking
and, of course, give a shoutout to where in the Caribbean
you call home?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Okay, thank you so much, alexandra, for having me
on.
So I'm Richard Vaught.
I'm originally from New York,my family's Jamaican.
My mother and father areJamaican, my grandparents the
whole way back generations downin Jamaica.
What got me started indocumentary filmmaking was it
was in 2005.
I had this is when I had movedfrom New York to California.
I just was looking around forfilms.
(02:30):
I'm like, where are all thefilms on, like Michael Manley,
where are these films?
Where can I find them?
So there were none.
I said maybe I should make oneand then I said, nah, I can't do
that.
And one of my friends had toldme at the time he goes, why not?
And I said I don't have thetime.
I don't know how to make a film.
Are you crazy?
So fast forward to 2010,.
I had met someone who wasactually in college at the time.
(02:52):
She was actually a master'sdegree student and she was at a
community college just taking afilmmaking course.
I saw a book that they had inthe class and that they had in
the class and it was called likeum, shut up and shoot a
documentary filmmaker's guidevery guerrilla filmmaking, just
get your camera and shoot.
So I was like all right, let'ssee what this book says.
(03:13):
So I read the book and I waslike, okay, I think it's really
possible for me to do this.
So at that point I startedgathering materials for mainly
Michael Manley, because MichaelManley has always been a
inspiration to me, cause Iremember growing up in New York
I would always see like oldinterviews would come on the TV
of Michael Manley and my fatherwould be watching and like
cheering and my mother told mestories of when she was a little
(03:34):
girl and they went to meetingswith her father and Norman
Manley would be there.
So it was always like amysterious mystique.
Jamaican politics in myhousehold.
My parents weren't really likemainly political, they weren't
like forcing political ideas onus, it's just like, hey, this is
what we know and these are likeour politicians.
So yeah, so come to 2010.
(03:56):
I started just getting michaelmanley's books started finding I
just do a lot of searching, alot of ebay purchases, because a
lot of these books were not inprint anymore gathering all
these materials together to makethe film.
So I just started reading onebook after the other is taking
notes on the books because, um,I graduated from college in 2003
with a degree in psychology abachelor's degree in psychology
(04:19):
and a minor in business so Iwasn't like trained for doing
filmmaking or research.
I just started doing it becauseit's something I felt
passionate about and, um yeah,so I started doing the research.
Um started pretty much likesaving every little penny I
could at the time to get acamera, and my grandmother was
the one who gave me the last$300 I needed to purchase the
(04:39):
camera.
So that's why in the MichaelManley film you'll see her name
as an executive producer.
Oh yeah, so that's how I reallygot started.
It's been really great.
Since then, it's been reallygood.
Everyone who I've interviewedor contacted has always been
like number one.
They're shocked that someone'scalling them to like interview
them and they're also the next.
The next shock is that Iactually show up in film.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So it's always just been um good interviews so far I
always love to hear people'sstories and even, um, you know,
I was really touched just inhearing how your grandmother
invested in your dream, right?
I think oftentimes we we havethese, these moments, right that
it's sometimes later down alongthe on the path of our journeys
(05:21):
that we're like.
You know, granny really didlook out for me, you know, when
everybody else wanted me tobecome Dr Laya, engineer,
whatever, you know, there arejust, of course, the ways that
our people show up for us and so, really, you know, moved by
your story and, of course,really grateful to have you on
the podcast.
That introduction brings us, ofcourse, to your company today,
(05:43):
right, spirit of 38 Productions,which you know from reading
your bio and website.
I know a little bit about, butdo you want to tell our
listeners why Spirit of 38?
I'll gush about a little bitmore after you tell us more
about it and just sort of theintentional focus of creating
(06:04):
this company really to supportCaribbean filmmaking and your
exploration of Caribbeandocumentaries.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yes, of course.
So yes, spirit of 38Productions.
I was doing my research forMichael Manley the Word is Love,
jamaica's Michael Manley and Iwas reading about the 1938
worker riots in Jamaica and Iwas like, hmm, 1938, interesting
.
I was reading some more againthat I said, hmm, 1838, the
abolition of slavery in the WestIndies.
I like interesting, 100 yearslater they rise up again.
(06:34):
So like it's 2038 gonna be thenext awakening for the for the
West Indies and the region.
So that's where I kind of gotthe um idea for the spirit of 38
, like that spirit of survival,of standing up for yourself, of,
you know, overcoming yourchallenges, of bringing the
spirit of rebellion pretty much.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
You know, when I was reading it, as I was sort of
alluding to a little bit earlier, I said yes, it's true, you
know, it's just, it clicked forme too.
So I definitely also want us tosort of sit with and unpack
what you had mentioned earlier Alittle bit of just about the
lack of access to documentariesand stuff, films on the region
(07:17):
that you sort of had noticed inthe early 2000s.
I mean, of course you can talkgenerally just about the fact
that there were very few films,but what sort of gaps did you
see present in documentaries ofthe Caribbean that you hope to
sort of answer, not just withinthese three films that we're
going to be spotlighting in amoment, but just overall through
(07:38):
Spirit of 38 Productions?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
just really to get the information out there,
because a lot of the um, the,the research materials, or the,
the news broadcasts, were prettyone-sided.
They didn't tell the full storyfrom the side of um, say,
michael manley's side, or shayjagen, or the grenada revolution
as a whole.
For example, for grenade, I sawa lot of stuff from that came
from the Reagan Library.
So I was like, okay, this isgoing to be heavily tilted one
direction and not give the fullpicture, and a lot of books are.
(08:10):
Usually they just focus on oneside of the story.
They don't really branch outfurther than what their subject
is.
I want to create films that wereright down the middle as
possible and let the people whoI interview tell the story.
Were, you know, right down themiddle as possible and let the
people who I interviewed tellthe story.
And then I go through and umfact check all that to make sure
it's at least accurate towhat's in the historical record
(08:31):
that I can get my hands on.
So that's really the gaps is.
There's a lot of films that arejust most of them are not even
to the left, they're mostly tothe right, and I just wanted to
like bridge that gap wherehere's a.
A film that's like right in thecenter tells a full story.
You, as the audience, can makeyour decision on it.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, and I think you know timing, I think, is
interesting, just because Ithink there is definitely a
wealth of some more of thesesort of materials a little bit
available now, right, but I'msure you know, for the previous
generation, these access to evenyou know some of the radio
(09:10):
broadcasts or the TV broadcasts,as you were mentioning, right,
the ways that technology hasdefinitely shifted more recently
as opposed to you know, evenour parents' generations and
things to that nature, thataccess I, I think is really
critical and one that wedefinitely benefit more from now
as well.
But also it requires us to sortof go back and know about these
(09:34):
things.
Right, for you, it was yourparents sort of shepherding and
telling you about Manly, etcetera, right, whereas if you
didn't sort of have that, youmight not necessarily know where
to look.
And so I want us to sit withthis moment and sort of talk
about this trilogy of films thatI found really tremendous.
So the documentaries are firstly, the World is Love, jamaica's
(09:56):
Michael Manley.
Next one, four Years of Love,the Grenada Revolution.
And the final one, the Price ofLove, chedi Chagin.
And so, for you, what was sortof the impetus for you wanting
to create these three Inparticular.
You've talked a little bitabout Manly but of course, just
sort of envisioning this overalltrilogy.
(10:17):
What was the intention behindputting these three political
leaders, situations and politicswithin the Caribbean,
especially because these are alllatter 20th century movements?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
yeah, first of all, it kind of came together once
again, during the research forum the word is love I was just,
you know, reading a lot of bookson michael, his, his text and
um, one biography that I wasable to get my hands on, and so,
throughout reading about it, Isaw pictures of like maurice
bishop I think it was a picturetaken at the one year
anniversary of the grenadarevolution, actually and so
(10:51):
maurice bishop and michaelmanley with this.
I was like, hmm, maurice bishop, I've always been interested in
him because I had a friend whowas grenadian and he told me
about maurice bishop once ortwice when we were in high
school.
And so, um, I was like, hmm,maybe one day I can make another
film on him, but not today.
We're focused on michael manley.
And so when I got to the end ofreading um, a biography, a book
(11:12):
on michael manley, it mentionedthat chetty jagan had died on
the same day as michael manley.
So I was like, I was like Iknow that name.
So I went and looked up chetty.
I'm like is very interesting.
I said maybe I could do him asa third film, but who knows if
I'll ever get to that.
This is back in 2010 when Istarted filming.
So I was like, maybe one dayI'll get all of them.
(11:34):
It can be like a trilogy offilms I had in my head, and so
it's.
When I came up with the titlefor the film, I was editing the
film and michael manley, in oneof the speeches within the film,
said um, um is.
This is a love movement.
We're not hating anyone.
I don't hate no businessman.
This is a love movement.
The word is love.
So I was like, oh, that's it.
That's the perfect title forthis film.
(11:54):
The word is love.
Jamaica's michael manley.
So I was like, okay, my dreamwould be a trilogy of films.
It's the love trilogy and it'sthree films in it, and those are
the three films having watchedthe films right, and
understanding the trajectory ofyour framework.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
That definitely adds to sort of my understanding of
the way that it came togetherfor you, right, and totally
makes sense.
When you know we sort of thinkabout the ways that these
political figures cross paths.
Right, we are a small butmighty.
You know little but tallow ourregion, and so it just makes so
much sense that you know yourengagement in wanting to
(12:29):
understand Michael Manley'shistory, right, would then also
potentially shift into theseother movements just at the time
, right?
Yes, what did you hope to addor change regarding the ways
that these moments arememorialized or historicized for
us through film like?
I'll share a little bit aboutwhat I found captivating in a
moment, but I'd definitely beinterested to hear from you
(12:52):
about your approach to makingthese films.
Um, just because you know youcould have done the sort of
general Michael Manley was bornon sort of thing, right, and
it'd be very bland, but I thinkyou crafted it in in really
interesting ways basically, Ijust wanted to tell the the
story, the main story of MichaelManley, like a lot of and it'd
be very bland, but I think youcrafted it in really interesting
(13:13):
ways.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Basically, I just wanted to tell the main story of
Michael Manley.
A lot of people funders.
Once I put the film togetherthey were only interested in the
1970s, they weren't interestedin the full picture of the man.
So I just wanted to give a fullpicture of this.
This is a guy who came fromupper middle class roots and
pretty much was in a politicalparty that expelled the left in
1954.
So he pretty much dragged theparty back to the left, pretty
(13:35):
much because the PNP was apretty much center left party,
has always been that way untilMichael Manley dragged them to
the left because in 1954 theyexpelled, the Marxist left wing
of the PNP was expelled.
So Michael Manley pretty muchin the 70s dragged them back to
the left.
And I just want to tell thewhole story of the man who.
He was not just in office butalso out of office and one of
(13:58):
the narratives I've discoveredthis was while filming Four
Years of Love, the GrenadaRevolution.
A lot of the information I readwas pretty much.
You know, in the West Indies we, like our main leader, like
he's the guy, he's the top guy.
You know you don't mess withthe top guy.
Around the Grenada Revolutionthere was this narrative of Cord
versus Bishop Cord, cordordering the assassination of
(14:21):
Bishop this and all these youknow, very muddy narratives were
around that story.
So when I was doing researchfor that film I was reading a
lot of books on what I couldfind on Maurice Bishop and
Bernard Court had just broughthis books.
So I was like something's notright here.
One side is saying one thing,one side is saying another thing
.
What's the correct story?
(14:42):
So I was lucky enough to findanother book collection, huge
book collection of all everysingle document that was
published for the trials ingrenada after the united states
invasion, um, all the researchmaterials.
They were all collected intocollections, books of each
individual topic.
So I was able to go throughthat and piece together what was
(15:02):
true.
So when I went and met b, I wasnumber one.
I was shocked of his, hisactual, his candor, his honesty
and the fact that what he said Iwas able to actually confirm
with historical, accuraterecords.
So I didn't want to tell peoplelike, oh, you're all wrong in
(15:23):
this, but I say this is thefacts here.
Here is what happened.
Here is what Bernard says.
Here is what the other recordwhat happened.
Here is what bernard says.
Here is what the other recordsays.
Here is what the officialrecord says.
Well, you can watch the film andsee, you know what the
situation was and what happened.
It wasn't just one man versusanother, it was an inter-party
discussion and something strangehappened on that day that made
(15:45):
them go to the floor.
That part is still a mysteryfor the most part from both
sides of the debate.
But, um, yeah, so that was onenarrative.
I wanted to, because in myheart of hearts I do not think
bernard court ordered anassassination based on the facts
that came out of since then.
And yes, that's that's onething I wanted to like.
I want people to take a look atboth sides and not just, you
(16:07):
know, fix it on one, one side ofit.
Yeah, I want people to take alook at both sides and not just
fix it on one side of it.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I think for me to sort of even add to your point,
I was really struck by the rangeof interviews that helped to
not just pit these politicians,or the moment in the decade in
which the heights that we knowthem for, you know, the decade
(16:31):
in which the heights that weknow them for, right, even
thinking to your film, the Priceof Love, chetty Jagan, you know
, even just interviews with hisfamily right With his daughters,
to underscore who he was as aperson, as a father, right,
these are all things that Ireally found instrumental in
sort of how we capture thesehistories.
You know, these are all thingsthat I really found instrumental
in sort of how we capture thesehistories.
You know, we've sort of beenjumping between the films, but
of course Michael Manley was,you know, one of Jamaica's prime
(16:56):
ministers.
The Grenada Revolution walksobviously through the Grenada
Revolution, and then ChettyJagan is the first elected chief
minister of what was thenBritish Guiana, but, you know,
become eventually, goes on toalso become premier and then
later president of Guyana in the90s, and so you've walked for
(17:17):
us mastering and the extent ofresearch right, but in terms of
sort of your interviewcollection, what was that
process like?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh, that stuff was always the fun part.
It's finding through, becausenot everyone is on Facebook, not
everyone is on LinkedIn.
It's really hard to find people.
So, for example, a lot of itcomes from word of mouth as well
.
When I do the film, someparticipants say, hey, this
guy's doing a film, you shouldreally go talk to him.
Like, for example, when Istarted the Michael Manley film,
I could not find any contactinformation for Rachel Manley.
(17:50):
So what I did was I had herbooks.
I'm like let me contact apublisher, tell them what I'm
looking for and what I'm doing,and maybe they can help me out.
So they actually passed on myemail to Rachel and she got in
touch with me and then when Ishowed up that day in Toronto to
interview her, she was shockedthat I showed up and we had a
great interview and she hadinvited Shirley Goldenberg,
(18:12):
whose husband was involved withthe negotiations during the
sugar strike in Jamaica, and soshe invited her to the interview
session so I was able tointerview her.
She asked another couple ofpeople she knew around the
Toronto area who were involvedwith Michael Manley, philip
Maskell and a couple others, andso she reached out to them to
(18:36):
get me in contact with them so Ican interview them as well.
So that's what happens a lot ofthe time.
For example, same with ChettyJagen, the Chetty Jagen Research
Center in Guyana.
I contacted them because I washaving trouble finding anyone
for this film and I contactedthem and so it was actually
Nadera who answered the email.
(18:56):
I didn't expect, I didn't thinkit would be her, and so she got
me in contact with everyone inthat film they had set up the
center in Georgetown.
For that week that I was therefilming, they had set it up so I
could actually go and filminterviews there, which was a
huge help because normally I'mrunning around from place to
place, especially in Jamaica.
(19:17):
My cousin Jerry Shout out toJerry, he's also listed as an
executive producer on theMichael Manley film because he
drove me to every location whenI was in Jamaica because he
lives out near Fort Littleport,montego bay area, like that,
just on the border, the twoparishes.
So we would be driving tokingston doing interviews this
day.
(19:37):
Driving to um up into saintanne, we had to do interview
arnold bertram and we got lostgoing up in them hills.
We didn't know where we weregoing.
It was so funny, um.
So, yeah, that's, that was thechallenge.
The challenge is actuallygetting to the location,
sometimes to film people, andalso actually finding people
that are.
You know, some people might not, may have passed away by now.
(19:58):
A lot of people, for example,that initially tried to contact
for chenny's film, they hadpassed away or they're in, like
you know, advanced age, sothey're they might be suffering
from, like you know, decline inof um mental facilities because
of age.
I've been lucky enough tocontact one person and then they
let other people know, forexample, um for the michael
(20:19):
manley film, um anthony bogues,who's actually a professor.
He was a professor at brown.
I don't know if he's stillthere, but he was.
He was there when I, when Iinterviewed him, he had put me
in contact with um Patsy Lewisand Brian Meeks because they
were also professors there.
So that day was really fun.
I was running all over campuswith because it's me by myself
with all my camera gear, lights,the camera bag, just like a
(20:42):
madman, trying to get to thedifferent locations.
So that's usually thechallenges.
Is um being a one-man film crew.
I schedule the interviews, Ifilm the interviews, I edit the
films, I put the films out.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I'm like the whole thing is pretty much like my
drive and um passion for sharingthese, this history, with the
people, with the worlddefinitely, I think, for you
know, particularly talking aboutmanly um, bishop and jagen, if
we want to put them togetherright, we can draw certain
similarities, whether that betheir, you know, political
(21:16):
ideals, as sort of like Marxistand socialist and things of who
these three figures were for theCaribbean, especially our sort
of move into post-colonialCaribbean history.
What did you find sort ofdistinguished them apart as
leaders and as individuals?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Distinguished them apart from where, from who?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
From each other.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
From each other.
Yes, that's a really goodquestion, because there's a lot
of similarities.
I think what separates them istime is a big separation,
because each of them had theirstruggles at different times and
and they each went throughpretty much the similar things.
(22:02):
If they may I don't know maybethey could all get on a phone
call and talk to each other.
At one point they could sort itout.
But same struggle, differenttime, is pretty much what it is.
Differences of approach wouldalso be.
Well, obviously, the GrenadaRevolution was a revolution.
They just, you know, eric Gehryleft.
They were like yeah, all right,we are now in control, we're
(22:25):
taking over.
This is our revolution.
That's a big difference.
The Grenada Revolution came topower obviously through a
revolutionary means.
Chetty Jagan and Michael Manleyboth came to power through
electoral processes.
Yeah, I think that's reallylike for the differences I can't
really see much.
I mean because there's a lotmore similarities than there are
differences, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
For our listeners who might be unfamiliar.
Do you want to share some ofthose similarities?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
all three of them are very much, um, left-leaning
politicians.
So michael manley, he was not acommunist.
I don't know, I mean, they'rejamaican.
I like to put the communistbogey on everything michael
manley was.
He was not a communist, he waspretty much a devout socialist,
I would say not far left, buthe's a left socialist, more left
than the PNP party.
Actually, the Great Air RaiderRevolution that film actually
(23:12):
deals with the whole story.
Because I'll tell you a littlebit about when I was making that
film.
I was initially going to makethe film on just Maurice Bishop
and then I realized I said no,this whole story is much bigger
than just one man, this is likea whole, it was a collective
thing.
So I had to tell the wholestory of the whole group and,
collective as it is.
(23:32):
So you know, that's a group ofpeople they came, who came to
power through revolutionarymeans and um, chetty Jagan was
elected.
Chetty Jagan was a Marxist,proud Marxist, never wavering in
that, to the very end, uh.
But of course he saw you knowit's not dogmatic he saw that he
had to adapt marxist principlesto guyana's situation and
that's how he um was able to,you know, still maintain, I
(23:56):
don't think the party itself isa marxist party.
It's a left party, but chedijakin himself, I know, is a
Marxist.
They may have Marxist, leninistidentity, but I don't think
most of the party members werethat far as Chetty was himself,
so that's really the similaritybetween them.
They're both left-leaningpoliticians.
All together they represent ourdrive and desire for
(24:22):
self-determination, gettingtheir nations out of colonial
dependence and actuallyapproaching the world and
working with the world on theirterms and not someone else's
terms, for the betterment of thepeople actually who live there
and not just companies that comein and use the resources.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Certainly, the other piece that you know I found
interesting in terms of just theways that some of these stories
are told, is the music that'schosen and all of these other
sort of additional features thatsort of help to round out the
time period right.
And so I'm always interested inhearing from people what are
(25:04):
those sort of ways that thesehistories show up in popular
culture that you foundintriguing right, be that a song
, be that.
You know you also mentionedsome of the books, the
autobiographies, etc.
So what are those things thatare sort of stand out for you
for listeners who, after theydefinitely go and check out
these films, would like to sortof do some further research?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I mean especially reggae music of the
70s that's heavily influenced bythe political climate of the
time.
And there's some artists outthere like Max Romeo Because in
Jamaica the whole bandwagonscame along with the politicians
as they traveled through thecountry spreading the the
message, trying to get peopleout to vote and so artists like
(25:49):
bob marley, peter tosh, you knowthe wailers bunny wailer maybe
not, maybe that bunny buddy, buthe was pretty much opposed to
it dealing with any of them butdefinitely peter tosh and bob
marley were known um at earlysupporters of michael manley at
that time.
I won't say the pnp, but I saidmichael manley's vision for j
Manley at that time.
I won't say the PNP but I'llsay Michael Manley's vision for
Jamaica at that time.
Definitely their music isdefinitely very heavily
(26:09):
influenced by the politicalclimate of the time.
For Grenada, I would saythere's not much that I was able
to find in pop culture thatalluded to that.
It was very, very hard to findinformation that's not skewed to
the right.
It's very obvious that it wasvery, very hard to find
information that that's notskewed to the right.
It's very obvious that it'svery conservative literature or
(26:30):
like news clips or things likethat that were put out by like
us news stations at that timewere very heavily um skewed to
some false narrative.
And for chedi um, there is anupcoming um biography coming out
on chedi jagen.
They are working on that rightnow.
They released a lot.
There's a film on janet jagenthat's actually really good um.
(26:52):
It's called thundering guyana.
It's um.
It's about the story of umjanet jagen, which is chedi
jagen's wife and um.
You can learn about her, herside of the story, more from
that film.
Um and, of course, learn learnfrom from Jenny's side from my
film.
But yeah, if you want to learnmore, you can watch Thunder and
Guyana to get Janet's side ofthe story as well.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I love filmmaking and I love, you know, unpacking, as
we've done our conversationtoday the impetus, the journey
of creating a film, right, and Ithink sometimes we think of it
as being a very onerous processor that it has to.
You know, it has to be on somebig event or whatever, right,
(27:34):
when you know we can makedocumentaries on our own
families, or you know ourgrandparents stories, et cetera,
right, and so what advice wouldyou have for our listeners who
are maybe interested in pursuingsort of whether it's similar
sorts of documentary work or,you know, whether that be on
major movements and figures oreven just on their own familial
(27:57):
and personal stories?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, I think that the number one thing to do is to
actually just start do it likeno matter what it takes.
I mean you, the money is a lot.
It does take a lot.
Um, for example, when I startedout, I don't have much more
money at this moment in my life,but when I started out I had
less.
But you know I would starve.
(28:19):
Not like stuff like, oh, I'mgonna pass out, I'm not, you
know, I'll just cut back on food.
So I eat very basic stuff.
Save as much money as I can,just to get the process going,
because just to keep the drivegoing, just to keep the passion
good, if you, if you really feelit's something you want to
bring out to the world, justjust go with it.
People will appreciate it inthe end.
Yeah so, but the thing is justto start.
(28:39):
That's the hardest part is justto start.
But once you do, just justdon't stop.
Just keep going until you canmake it happen, you know
certainly.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I mean, I agree, um, it's one of those things that
you know, just you sort of haveto just jump in and try.
Um, but you know, I cannotrecommend enough.
I think this trilogy of filmsare so deeply ingrained into I I
just cannot commend you enoughfor the, I think, tremendous
work that you've done.
Right, um, you definitely getunpackings of these movements,
(29:15):
or um, you know, politicalfigures in really integral ways,
and I, of course, will be sureto link them on our website and
also in the show notes for ourlisteners who want to check them
out.
And so, again, the films arethe World is Love, jamaica's
Michael Manley, four Years ofLove, the Grenada Revolution and
the Price of Love, chetty Jagan.
So, richard, thank you so muchfor, you know, being a part of
(29:38):
the Strictly Facts, as we'vebeen talking about films and
filmmaking, and again, for ourlisteners, check out these
trilogy of films because I thinkthey're just beautifully done
and readily accessible for us.
There's no, you know, gianthurdles and things for you to
check out.
They will be linked on ourwebsite and in our show notes.
So till next time, look more.
(29:59):
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