April 16, 2025 • 42 mins
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The Caribbean's artistic traditions reveal profound truths about our history, identity, and resilience. Keisha Oliver, PhD candidate at Penn State, joins Strictly Facts as we discuss Bahamian visual culture that challenges conventional understandings of Caribbean creativity. From the gendered practice of straw craft—where women wove not just materials but stories across generations—to the radical educational approaches of forgotten art pioneers, this conversation uncovers how visual expression became a battleground for decolonization. Horace Wright traveled between islands as the Bahamas' only art educator during segregation, while Donald Russell created alternative spaces where Black and white students could learn together despite societal barriers. Their stories reflect the complex migratory patterns that define Caribbean identity itself: birth in one nation, heritage from another, and contributions to a third.
Most provocatively, Oliver poses an existential question gaining urgency as climate change threatens island nations: "How do we preserve who Bahamians were outside the physicality of the Bahamas?" This challenge demands innovative approaches to cultural documentation that honor indigenous and African diasporic traditions while embracing new technologies and platforms. By framing arts education as a form of Black radical thought, this episode reveals how cultural expression functions as political resistance and nation-building. The conversation ultimately demonstrates that art doesn't merely reflect Caribbean identity—it actively creates it, serving as both anchor to our past and compass toward our future.
Keisha Oliver is Bahamian assistant professor of Art and Design at the University of The Bahamas, and a PhD candidate in the dual-title Art Education and African American and Diaspora Studies program at the Pennsylvania State University. As an artist-scholar whose research intersects heritage studies and arts pedagogy, Oliver’s current work focuses on mid-twentieth century transcultural African diasporic art histories and archives. She currently stewards the Charles Blockson Collection of African Americana and The African Diaspora at Penn State and serves on several boards for arts organizations in the Caribbean and United States. Her research has been published internationally in the areas of museum studies, visual arts research, Bahamian art, and Caribbean art history.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, hosted byme, alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Wagwan people, welcome back.
Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Strictly
(00:25):
Facts, a guide to Caribbeanhistory and culture.
If you have tuned in for sometime, you know I am a big fan of
the arts and I mean that in avery encompassing sense.
I think we as a Caribbean peopleare a very creative set of
people, from things of paintingsto music to writing and
everything in between, and ourepisode today is no different,
(00:46):
as we explore the arts of theBahamas and a bit of something
new that we haven't necessarilytalked about before here on the
show, exploring a bit of artseducation.
And so, before we get there, Ihave to, of course, introduce
our lovely guest, keisha Oliver,assistant Professor of Art and
Design at the University ofBahamas and a PhD candidate in
(01:08):
the dual title Art Education inAfrican American and Diaspora
Studies program at thePennsylvania State University.
So, keisha, thank you so muchfor joining me.
It's been a minute since we'veseen each other when we met in
Puerto Rico.
But for our listeners, whydon't you tell us a bit about
yourself your connection to theCaribbean, of course, and what
(01:28):
inspired your interest inBahamian visual culture and
education?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you so much for having me and giving me this
opportunity to share.
It's nice to be outside of theformal kind of you know settings
in a lecture or a formalpresentation, so I am quite
excited about our discussion.
So, as you said, my name isKeisha Oliver.
I am a Bahamian artist, scholar.
(01:53):
My work kind of intersectsheritage studies, arts pedagogy
and African diaspora studies,and so my interest really in
nurturing and sustainingBahamian visual culture comes
from a desire to continue thelegacies of Bahamian women like
Pamela Burnside, patriciaMcCullough and the late Gail
(02:14):
Saunders and others who havebeen cultural advocates and
educators who've supported mywork and ushered me to this kind
of interest for preserving andwriting on 20th century Bahamian
arts.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I'm certainly really excited for our conversation,
especially as it pertains to thearts, because I think, as I
mentioned, you know there are somany different forms that we
could talk about and, of course,there are definitely
similarities and differences, ofcourse, across our different
islands.
But one that I hope we reallytease out through our
conversation is talking aboutarts education, which I'm really
(02:53):
interested in hearing yourperspectives on.
But before we get there, youknow, to talk and think through
what you would callAfro-Bahamian visual art culture
, right, or visual culturerather, and its importance in
society.
What are some of the earliestforms of Bahamian visual culture
(03:14):
that we can overlook when wethink of art, as you know, being
paintings or sculptures andthings like that?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yes, I think it's such an interesting question,
particularly as we think aboutthe idea of preserving what is
African, what is indigenous tothis part of the world.
And for the Bahamas, I think alot of the practices have been
gendered, and straw work inparticular.
Straw craft has been one ofthose practices that has leaned
(03:45):
towards the weaving of straw,the weaving of sisal and palm
leaves by women, right, and sothat kind of has come out of a
lot of work done by Bahamianscholars, historian Kim Alton
Stubbs and her work alongsidearchaeologist Grace Turner.
(04:06):
They wrote a article in themid-90s.
It was titled the Straw Workand was a case study that was
actually written for theSmithsonian Folk Festival, so
this was 94.
And what they allow us to seefor the first time in public
(04:28):
scholarship and they allow us tolearn is that the marketing of
straw work really began with thewife of, who was century, and
so here we see the involvementof like the wholesale production
(04:48):
of straw and it being exportedfrom the Bahamas to Bermuda.
And so in the article what theyreally maintain is that the
only sources that they have areevidence from some of the
historical documents, likeplantation statistics,
archaeologists, kind of theresearch they're doing, and then
(05:10):
the surviving traditions thatwomen who are straw vendors are
maintaining through the industryright, and so I'm interested in
their work and how that work iscontinuing through more
contemporary and emergingscholars like Simone Cambridge,
(05:30):
who, when she was at Universityof Amherst in Massachusetts, she
had published this work thatwas so inspiring because the
impetus of the work was from hergrandmother's thesis.
The impetus of the work was fromher grandmother's thesis, and
so here you have thiscontemporary scholar in 2022
writing about straw craft, strawwork, and she's writing about
(05:54):
it in reflection of a piece ofarchival material that she found
during her discovery that ledher to her grandmother, and so
her grandmother's thesis in 1968, along with some more
contemporary scholarship byKaren Knowles, which is a strong
account of the industry in theBahamas.
(06:15):
These documents start to kindof help us glean a little bit of
what the history looks like,because there is no formal text,
as it were.
We have articles in newspapers,we have articles by scholars,
but nothing comprehensive, whichis something that I think will
(06:35):
be fascinating for this part ofthe world, and so, for me, what
is most interesting withCambridge's work is because
she's not only talking about thehistorical significance of this
practice.
But she is then creating abridge between the historical
and the contemporary by nowciting exhibitions and artwork
(06:58):
by contemporary Bahamian womenartists that use the straw craft
essence and some of the weavingstyles to pay homage to these
kind of 19th century practices.
Right, and so for me, scholarslike Cambridge, and the work
(07:18):
that she's doing.
I think there was a recentexhibition that she curated at
the National Art Gallery.
It was entitled.
It comes from the head StrawHeritage, and so she's including
artists like Anina Major,artists like Avery Wright, who
are ceramicists but also workingin the sculptural form and
(07:42):
having themselves connectionswith women in their family who
were straw benders.
So the contemporary, pullingfrom the historical, not only
through scholarship but throughthe artistic practice, is quite
inspiring for scholars likemyself.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That was beautifully said.
Especially, I did come acrossthat article, thinking through
that scholars work in terms ofnot only her own scholarship but
that of her grandmothers, and Ithink I'm just really drawn to
the way that art brings usthrough genealogies and you know
, your answer helped captivate.
What I'm hoping we explore is,you know, this way of us
(08:24):
thinking through art and arteducation, but connecting the
past and the present.
And so, before we get too muchinto the present, I do want to
take us back a bit to this 20thcentury moment.
I think, especially across alot of the Anglophone Caribbean,
that mid to late 20th centuryperiod is, of course, caribbean.
(08:47):
That mid to late 20th centuryperiod is, of course, very
impactful and influential for alot of reasons, the main one
being independence, obviously.
But that period also marks alot of ways that, as our islands
are becoming independentnations, we are trying to, not
that we didn't have our ownidentities, but we're, you know,
staking claims at it in veryintentional ways as we are
(09:07):
becoming independent.
And so some of your research,as I know, does touch on this
moment and you know whatBahamian visual culture was
looking like as we transitionedfrom being colonies to
independent.
I know you've given us a fewartists already, but who are
some of the key artists of thisperiod in the you know like mid
(09:29):
50s and 60s, and how did theirexperiences shape the artistic
identity of the Bahamas?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you for bringing it forward to the 20th
century, because I have a littlebit more to talk about, seeing
that.
That's where my scholarshiplives, and I'm primarily
concerned with the 1950s and 60sbecause I'm interested in at
least reclaiming some of thememories that still exist
through some of the figures thatare still alive, right, they're
(09:58):
mentees, they're students,right.
And so that's why I chose tofocus on the 20th century in
this work.
And for the 1950s, for theBahamas, this prefaced the
moment across the Caribbean,diaspora of that nationalist
momentum, right Territoriesbecoming independent we have,
(10:20):
with the lead of countries likeJamaica and Trinidad in the 60s
and the Bahamas in the 70s.
I think oftentimes we celebratethose moments in those years
but we ignore and this is just,for instance, you know,
civilians, my mom, my cousins,co-workers.
(10:44):
They forget about what happensbefore, right, what led up to
that, because there was a lot ofwork, a lot of labor involved
in those victories, and so the1950s and 60s stand out as those
periods of labor, andoftentimes the artistic element,
(11:04):
and oftentimes the artisticelement, the artistic
contributions of artists thatwere also educators, go
unnoticed, and for me there weretwo Caribbean men who led the
four as it relates to formaleducation and informal
(11:24):
alternative education outside ofthe classroom.
And those two men were HoraceWright, who was the educator in
the formal setting, who wouldhave actually been the only arts
educator for the entire Bahamas, which is an archipelago of
islands, which is an archipelagoof islands, and so imagining
(11:48):
that students would only havehim once a month, or once every
two months, you know, because hehad to make his rounds, he had
to travel to these differentspaces.
And then you have a DonaldRussell, who was really in the
space of alternative artseducation, where he was all
about what we now would refer toas community arts education and
(12:12):
creating spaces that allowed,particularly in this moment of
segregation, whites and blacksto learn in the same space.
And these were students thatwere finishing high school and
maybe transitioning into theworkforce or, for those who are
a little bit more privileged,traveling abroad to continue
(12:34):
their education, right.
And so here we had a space thatthey could do that.
And what I find most interestingabout these individuals, as
they are a reflection of themigratory patterns that were so
intense at this moment, becausehere we have Horace Wright that
was actually born in Chicago toJamaican parents and he moved to
(12:59):
the Bahamas at the age of two,and so he knew no other home
really but the Bahamas.
But he was born to Jamaicanparents and born in the United
States, right, and so thefluidity of identity is so
interesting as it kind of marksour cultural imprinting and what
(13:19):
we identify as home or what weidentify as personhood,
nationhood, and so I find thatinteresting in his story.
But then when we look at DonaldRussell, it's a very similar
kind of mobility that hasimpacted his cultural kind of
(13:41):
identity, in the sense thatDonald Russell was born to
Bahamian parents but he was bornin New York and he migrated to
the Bahamas.
He returned to the Bahamas, Ishould say, in his late 30s to
start the Donald Russell ArtsAcademy, which was in an academy
(14:05):
of sorts Academy is such aextravagant term.
It was really a studio, his artstudio, that he opened up to a
few students who were lookingfor mentorship and he in a way
had started a momentum ofcommunity-driven arts
(14:28):
experiences that have manifestedthroughout the years through
spaces like Project ICE thatopened in the early 2020s.
(14:50):
And so we see there that thistradition of learning outside of
the formal classroom has alegacy that started with
post-independence moment.
It started with Donald Russell.
So these two icons I'm veryfascinated about who they were
and what they contributed,particularly because in reading
(15:12):
the few texts that exist onBahamian art history, they only
ever appear as footnotes in thathistory.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I'm always so intrigued when we really dive
into people's origins in the waythat you carve out for us,
because, you know, whether welike it or not, movement and
migration is always a part ofthat Caribbean, not just the
(15:42):
islands, right, we move, we comeback, we return, as you
mentioned, and it's part of notonly our individual histories
but of, you know, our globalcapacities and influence on the
world in a lot of ways and, asyou sort of outlined, for us,
right, these are things that areintegral to these particular
artists and educators, but forus as a people, right, I think
(16:06):
it builds bridges in a lot ofways that sometimes, you know,
when we tend to think of thingsalong nationalistic lines, it
sort of gets away from thatpoint, which I'm really proud of
.
In addition, I'm also, you know,really interested in learning
more about Russell and hisacademy, just because, from a
Jamaican standpoint at least,you know we talk a lot about
(16:28):
Edna Manley and her impact onarts.
You know our art school isnamed after her in Kingston.
But what does this sort ofmoment of Russell's academy mean
for the Bahamas, especiallyalong racial lines, as you
mentioned?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, I think it's really important you raising
this idea of racial kind ofimpact, and not only racial
impact but economic impact.
You know racial capitalism, forexample.
You know racial capitalism, forexample, how that would have
(17:09):
created very difficult scenariosfor a thriving artistic kind of
moment.
Right, I often tell students ifI'm teaching, particularly a
studio class, and you knowstudents often say, oh, art
supplies are so expensive, and Ithink they are, but imagine the
masterpieces that were producedthat we are in awe of now.
(17:30):
An individual who had nocommunity.
That looked like him right Inthe arts.
(17:50):
He had to lean to some of hisother colleagues at the time in
literary arts, in performingarts, to find a sense of
community.
And you know, for thoselistening, you know they may
remember the names of TG Gloveror RH Sawyer and these educators
(18:17):
.
They would probably onlyremember their names because a
lot of the educationalinstitutions today that exist
secondary education, primaryeducation these schools are
named after these individualsbecause of the impact of their
work.
And so I think that speaksvolumes not only of their
(18:39):
contributions individually butcollectively and how they would
have had to support each otheracross the arts.
And I like to talk about artwith an S because the visual
arts, performing arts, literaryarts, they all lean on each
other in different moments.
In the Black Power movement onthe United States or the Black
Arts movement in the Black PowerMovement on the United States,
(19:00):
or the Black Arts Movement inthe United Kingdom, the Harlem
Renaissance.
You often realize that theartists are always in community,
despite the genre of art thatis being produced, right, they
inform each other.
And so we see how writers likeClaude McKay writing about
(19:24):
certain artists, um, througharticles, through poetry,
through book chapters, etc.
And I feel for the Bahamas,that was really important during
this moment that prefacedindependence, because you had
this Black majority workingtogether to actually promote the
(19:49):
importance of what it means tocelebrate who we are.
Our identity is through thiskind of Black expression, right,
this Afro-Bahamian expressionthrough the visual, through the
literary, through the performing.
And so oftentimes there areimages that I share,
particularly of Horace Wright,thanks to his granddaughter, who
(20:15):
is also an art educator, andMiss Wright she shares this
image with me, where you seethese art educators Horace
Wright standing as really aminority, with a few of his
colleagues in other artsdepartments, but as a minority
to the prominent white Britisheducators who, for the most part
(20:38):
, dominate the education spaceand as a residual of that
domination, we see that some ofthe curricula, the textbooks,
the language and the structureof our education still reflects
that kind of colonial impetus.
(20:59):
And so I imagine to be teachingin this moment was very much
radical.
We don't speak about Blackradical education in the
Caribbean.
So much Black radicalismtypically comes from the
African-American spaces, right,black radical thought.
However, when we think of CLRJames, black radical thought.
(21:25):
However, when we think of CLRJames, you know we have to
remember CLR James and StuartHall.
These are Caribbeanists, so tospeak, who are, yes, speaking
often from an African-Americanspace.
But again, you speak tomigration.
But again you speak tomigration.
(22:04):
Where did these individuals?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
come from right, and so I like to think of the work
that I'm doing as a continuationof Black radicalism for the
Caribbean in how I am hoping todecolonize arts education
through the momentum thatexisted prior to independence.
Certainly, I think that that's areally great point.
Even you know, to add on to CLRJames and to Stuart Hall, when
we think of radical politics inthe Caribbean, it often is in
like a political, in terms oflike a governmental sense, right
, or you know something likethat and for us to be able to
(22:26):
bring that internally into likean education sense.
I know there has definitely beena lot of conversation around
Walter Rodney's impact.
You know, at UWE, mona, I thinkdefinitely from a higher
education space, from acollegiate, you know sense, but
to think of arts education asalso being an avenue for us to
(22:50):
explore, that, I think, isdefinitely a wonderful thing for
us to pay attention to and toalso historicize for future
generations.
You brought up a reallyinteresting point that you know
in terms of some of thechallenges of establishing arts
education in the 50s and the 60s.
How have you seen thesechallenges evolve since then?
(23:12):
What are some of the ones thatstill prevail today, especially
as it relates to Afro-Bahamians,and how have aspects of you
know things like culturalidentity and you know
nationalism, et cetera arefactored into some of these
challenges in arts educationtoday.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I think, going back to the moments that preceded
independence, when independence,when the political figures at
that time were thinking aboutways in which they could
reinvent what it means to beBahamian through this
independent moment.
(23:53):
And so the arts then becomethis tool for articulating that
message.
And in that moment we havefigures like E Clements Bethel,
who emerges after independenceas a kind of minister for
culture, for arts, forcreativity, and we have in this
(24:17):
moment the forming of acollective of creatives like
James O'Reill, who was an artseducator, but then he is kind of
coming into the space of thestate, the government, and
working in culture and culturalkind of, not so much
(24:37):
preservation but culturalawareness.
And what I find interesting isthat culture then becomes
important to bolster nationaldevelopment.
Right, and the challenge, whatI've seen happen over the years,
(24:58):
is this energy that existed inthis moment of independence, the
years after independence, wherea lot of cultural advocates,
historians, archaeologists,writers were excited, right, and
so were the political figures,in funding and supporting these
individuals and preserving whatit means to be Bahamian, what it
(25:19):
means to promote Bahamianidentity and cultural practices.
And year by year, decade bydecade, you saw that fade right,
that excitement for what itmeans to be aligned with foreign
elements, be it European, be itNorth American, etc.
(25:45):
Particularly as the tensionswith migration, right, and that
respectability politics where alot of Bahamians, particularly
searching for what we call quoteunquote a better education in
North American universities inthe 50s and 60s, we see that
thrust of students travel andwhat it means for those students
(26:09):
who are then abroad to lookback or to return, as you say,
and how, little by little, thatexodus of knowledge and that
return of imparted knowledge, ifit even returns, what does that
cause for the momentum and forthe sustainability and survival
(26:32):
for culture?
Because it means, over a periodof time, cultural elements are
lost or they are changing.
Elements are lost or they arechanging.
And I think historians andcultural advocates from the 70s,
they feel that the Hamanscholars of tomorrow are not as
(26:52):
concerned with their African andindigenous roots and they feel
that a lot is being lost.
And so for me, I think thechallenges are how do you
continue to preserve when a lotis changing and how can you
actually bring change into thefold, right?
(27:14):
How can you convince thoseveteran historians and scholars
and cultural advocates that it'sokay to allow for change?
Change is inevitable right, andso, for me, that's something
that I'm often grappling with.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Definitely.
You've certainly given us a lotto think about and also a lot
of artists and scholars for usto definitely delve into for our
listeners who want to learnmore about Bahamian visual
culture.
What are some of your favoriteexamples of you know, this 20th
century art and art educationshowing up in popular culture?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I think one of the really interesting, interesting
parts or elements of Bahamianculture that has evolved from
our African and indigenousidentity, you know, from the
continent, that persists to now,is this idea of Junkanoo.
(28:20):
Right, junkanoo for us is anarts festival that is celebrated
Boxing Day, new Year's Day, andit is traced back to our West
African roots.
Right, we make parallels withthe Igungun Masquerade Festival
of the Yoruba peoples, and whatI think is so fascinating is
(28:42):
because it's undeniably Africanbut it's also undeniably
Bahamian.
And what does that mean?
Right, when you see an AfricanYoruba costume or mask of the,
say, the early 19th century,compared to one of the Bahamas
(29:06):
in that period, and thencomparing those contemporary
materials or products of thefestival, now, right, it's
undeniable that there is adiaspora connection that is so
beautiful and so important tothis idea of evolution.
And I think for me, when wetalk about education, that in
(29:32):
itself, the materials, thesounds that are produced,
because it's a multimodalfestival, so we have dance, we
have music, we have the artisticelements of the costumes and
for students who are eitherartists or taking art criticism
(29:55):
or arts writing, that exists asa form of what I referred to
earlier in Simone Cambridge'swork, bridging the contemporary
with the historical right andshowing the value in studying,
preserving Bahamian culture andarts over time.
(30:15):
Junkanoo is an idealpedagogical tool to think
through these ideas of change,evolution, african Indigenous
identity, contemporaryinterpretations of those
identities for students todayand tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Definitely and one I hope that you know certainly
continues.
I think especially they were,you know, recently over the
Christmas holiday there were alot of reports for Jamaica's
junkanoo and how you know it'sdecreased significantly over the
last you know few decades.
So one that I definitely hopenot only is preserved but
definitely lively.
So one that I definitely hopenot only is preserved but
(31:04):
definitely lively, and continuesin mass for all of the region.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But I have a question for you, and this is why I
think now the state in theBahamas is taking an interest in
, a serious interest ininvesting in culture when
establishing a I think it waslast early last year a museum
dedicated for John Canoe.
I think investments like thatreally speak to the level of
value, because oftentimes yourealize certain disciplines
within the academy, certainideas and ideologies do not
resonate as valuable as currency, right um for small island,
(31:47):
developing states like, uh,jamaica, like the bahamas, and
can you, can you say thatjamaica, outside of music,
outside of the arts, is thefestival um johnoo has been
given that same level of umvalue for your, for your
(32:07):
government no, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I think you know, in a lot of ways, folk cultures if
that's what some people wouldcertainly label junkanoo or
other sorts of um creative andcultural practices as compared
to you know, like latter 20thcentury um practices between
reggae and dancehall especiallybecome, come to dominate and, of
course, from a financial aspect, they are bringing in monies in
(32:33):
droves in ways that I thinkthere's definitely more
investment.
Um, from a governmental sense,looked towards um, but the, of
course, the thing that we alwayshave to be aware of as people,
as islands, as um, as our, youknow, as caribbean people, is,
yes, the money coming in fromtourism etc is definitely
(32:55):
important, but there comes atime where we have to definitely
be aware of how neglecting someof the things that made us who
we are and in this case you knowwe're talking about Junkanoo,
but neglecting the histories andthe importance of some of those
early practices in our earlydevelopment, will then lead to
(33:16):
sort of like a watering down.
I mean, there are a lot of folkpractices that went on to
influence Jamaican popularculture, particularly music,
especially when we're thinkingof things like kumina and
definitely other folk religiousand cultural practices.
And yeah, to your question, ifwe continue to neglect them from
(33:39):
, like you know, a more focusedpoint on what's solely bringing
in money, we will lose parts ofwho we are.
For generations to come, wewon't be the same.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
But why I ask?
Is because you know I hadwritten a paper recently trying
to kind of make theseconnections diasporically with
Caribbean territories likeJamaica, like the Bahamas.
And as you're aware, you knowJamaica and the Bahamas are very
, very different.
You know the Bahamas is a lotsmaller.
They became independent almost10 years later.
(34:13):
So I feel like you could almostmake these parallels with how
(34:40):
the cultural kind of evolutionof the Afro elements of
Jamaicans cultural evolutionwere so much further ahead
because of that, because of thembecoming independent, because
they were a lot larger.
So the dominance of the mass ofpeople and then also the
migration patterns.
There had been a lot ofmigration between Jamaica and
the Bahamas, mainly outward,from Jamaica to the Bahamas.
In education I couldn'tidentify if arts education was
specifically impacted.
But I raise that point becauseI think that the more we can
(35:01):
lean into really investigatingand critiquing these kind of
cultural flows, right ofknowledge and artistic
production, we may glean somevery interesting kind of
scholarship that has neverreally been thought of, right,
(35:23):
because we're always thinkingabout migration outward, to you
know first world countries forexample, and not really making
more of the diasporic kind ofconnections with that mobility,
particularly from an educationalstandpoint, kind of connections
with that mobility,particularly from an educational
standpoint.
And so I thought, yeah, jamaicais of interest, and also Haiti,
but that's a whole otherconversation.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, certainly I think to your point on diaspora,
right like that's definitelyone of my impetuses for starting
this show.
I think I've been able to,through my own education, study
and explore some of thesesimilarities and continuities
through migration and things tothat nature, but they're not
always as present inconversation and I think in a
lot of ways it's not only justabout the scholarship that could
(36:12):
be produced, but definitely forour own.
You know cultural or communalpreservations, right as you
brought up the state a littlebit ago, and you know the
problems with the state inpreserving some of these things.
Sometimes we have to do it forourselves, and so that's
something that you know I'mpassionate about in terms of,
(36:32):
you know, just harboring anddocumenting our own stories for
that legacy for the future anddocumenting our own stories for
that legacy for the future.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, and I commend you on that works, because I
feel that, mainly for archivalpurposes and we see particularly
a lot what's going on in the USthat we have to look to
alternative ways of preservingoutside of the institutions,
because everything is at risk,right, because everything is at
risk right.
And so I think for me, I'vealways been very much big on
(37:07):
community archiving or citizenarchiving and personal archives
and things being multi-sided,particularly with climate change
being imminent threats to theCaribbean, what it means for us
to think about having ourlegacies continue outside of the
fact that, you know, in 2050,the Bahamas may no longer be
(37:30):
where it is, it may beunderwater, right, and so how do
we preserve who Bahamians wereoutside of the physicality of
the Bahamas?
And so, yeah, I think the workthat you're doing kind of speaks
to those alternative ways thatwe can continue the conversation
and be in community, outside ofnational community but
(37:51):
Caribbean community, diasporacommunity to come to these
solutions.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Certainly, certainly, I think that, you know,
definitely brings me to my finalquestion as our you know
Bahamian art expert, for ourepisode today what are certainly
some of your hopes for thefuture of Bahamian art,
caribbean art and the artseducation that is, you know,
obviously intertwined with ourdiscussion today?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
you know, obviously intertwined with our, our
discussion today.
So, for me, I am really leaningtowards, like I'd mentioned
previously, this idea ofactually challenging my past
self.
And so, when I started mydoctoral program, I was upset, I
was livid.
I'm like why does so much ofthe Hayman history exist outside
of the bahamas?
Why is it so much moreaccessible to me, um, once I am
(38:43):
not home, to access thisinformation, right, and these
repositories that exist ineurope, in the us, etc.
And now I'm realizing, like Imentioned previously, about the
threat of climate change,particularly with flooding and
islands not being habitable, etc.
(39:03):
There is value with this idea ofmulti-sidedness, right, but not
only multi-sidedness, but themulti-modality, the fact that
not all elements of culture willresonate in written form or be
articulated well in written form.
But we need to think aboutpodcasts, right, oral histories,
(39:24):
song, dance, other ways,african diasporic archival
methods is what interests me.
Or Black diasporic archivalmethods, or preservation methods
that not only embody who we are, but look back on some of the
(39:46):
indigenous practices of ourancestors and bring them to the,
to the fore right, bring themto the contemporary being, um,
so that we can honor ourancestors but we can also be
moving in a way that decolonizesa lot of what we know to be
archiving or preservation.
So for me I'm using arteducation as a inroad to think
(40:12):
about the broader aspect ofcultural heritage and
documenting aspect of culturalheritage.
And documenting, reclaimingthrough discovery of archives,
mainly in the United Statesbecause that's where I'm located
now, but over the next yearwhen I start to travel with my
(40:42):
research in Europe, specificallyin London, and looking at those
archives and almost creatinglike a network so that this idea
of discovery we can illuminatewhat exists in these archives
and almost create a way forfuture researchers to have the
resources that are needed tocreate the educational material
to teach and to nurture thisidea of community art education.
(41:06):
So I hope that answers yourquestion?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yes, it does.
I think in a lot of ways, youknow, our inspirations are very
similar right To document thesethings for ourselves in ways for
them to last, right, so thesehistories are not lost,
especially when that comes tobeing predominantly communities
that are Afro diasporiccommunities, and so any ways
(41:32):
that we can continue thesethings and make them more
accessible, whether that bedigitally or you know other
avenues, as you mentioned issomething that I'm always
excited about and definitelyrooting for you as you enter
this fieldwork and dissertationstage, because I'm really
looking forward to seeing whatcomes of your work in terms of
arts, education and so, withthat, our Strictly Facts family.
(41:56):
I hope you really enjoyedlistening to this episode.
I know it was one that, for me,brought a lot of pieces
together that I'm interested inbetween education and the arts.
You know, black Power,movements, empowerment, all of
these things communal practicesand community and, yeah, I will
definitely add a lot of thelinks and stuff that we
(42:18):
mentioned today to the StrictlyFacts syllabus for our listeners
to check out.
Um, thank you so much, keisha,for sharing with us about, you
know, your own personal historyand journey and, um, academic
work and interest, and you know,till next time, little more.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I appreciate you.
Thank you so much StrictlyFacts.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Thanks for tuning in to Strictly Facts.
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, hosted byme, alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Wagwan people, welcome back.
Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Strictly
(00:25):
Facts, a guide to Caribbeanhistory and culture.
If you have tuned in for sometime, you know I am a big fan of
the arts and I mean that in avery encompassing sense.
I think we as a Caribbean peopleare a very creative set of
people, from things of paintingsto music to writing and
everything in between, and ourepisode today is no different,
(00:46):
as we explore the arts of theBahamas and a bit of something
new that we haven't necessarilytalked about before here on the
show, exploring a bit of artseducation.
And so, before we get there, Ihave to, of course, introduce
our lovely guest, keisha Oliver,assistant Professor of Art and
Design at the University ofBahamas and a PhD candidate in
(01:08):
the dual title Art Education inAfrican American and Diaspora
Studies program at thePennsylvania State University.
So, keisha, thank you so muchfor joining me.
It's been a minute since we'veseen each other when we met in
Puerto Rico.
But for our listeners, whydon't you tell us a bit about
yourself your connection to theCaribbean, of course, and what
(01:28):
inspired your interest inBahamian visual culture and
education?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you so much for having me and giving me this
opportunity to share.
It's nice to be outside of theformal kind of you know settings
in a lecture or a formalpresentation, so I am quite
excited about our discussion.
So, as you said, my name isKeisha Oliver.
I am a Bahamian artist, scholar.
(01:53):
My work kind of intersectsheritage studies, arts pedagogy
and African diaspora studies,and so my interest really in
nurturing and sustainingBahamian visual culture comes
from a desire to continue thelegacies of Bahamian women like
Pamela Burnside, patriciaMcCullough and the late Gail
(02:14):
Saunders and others who havebeen cultural advocates and
educators who've supported mywork and ushered me to this kind
of interest for preserving andwriting on 20th century Bahamian
arts.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I'm certainly really excited for our conversation,
especially as it pertains to thearts, because I think, as I
mentioned, you know there are somany different forms that we
could talk about and, of course,there are definitely
similarities and differences, ofcourse, across our different
islands.
But one that I hope we reallytease out through our
conversation is talking aboutarts education, which I'm really
(02:53):
interested in hearing yourperspectives on.
But before we get there, youknow, to talk and think through
what you would callAfro-Bahamian visual art culture
, right, or visual culturerather, and its importance in
society.
What are some of the earliestforms of Bahamian visual culture
(03:14):
that we can overlook when wethink of art, as you know, being
paintings or sculptures andthings like that?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yes, I think it's such an interesting question,
particularly as we think aboutthe idea of preserving what is
African, what is indigenous tothis part of the world.
And for the Bahamas, I think alot of the practices have been
gendered, and straw work inparticular.
Straw craft has been one ofthose practices that has leaned
(03:45):
towards the weaving of straw,the weaving of sisal and palm
leaves by women, right, and sothat kind of has come out of a
lot of work done by Bahamianscholars, historian Kim Alton
Stubbs and her work alongsidearchaeologist Grace Turner.
(04:06):
They wrote a article in themid-90s.
It was titled the Straw Workand was a case study that was
actually written for theSmithsonian Folk Festival, so
this was 94.
And what they allow us to seefor the first time in public
(04:28):
scholarship and they allow us tolearn is that the marketing of
straw work really began with thewife of, who was century, and
so here we see the involvementof like the wholesale production
(04:48):
of straw and it being exportedfrom the Bahamas to Bermuda.
And so in the article what theyreally maintain is that the
only sources that they have areevidence from some of the
historical documents, likeplantation statistics,
archaeologists, kind of theresearch they're doing, and then
(05:10):
the surviving traditions thatwomen who are straw vendors are
maintaining through the industryright, and so I'm interested in
their work and how that work iscontinuing through more
contemporary and emergingscholars like Simone Cambridge,
(05:30):
who, when she was at Universityof Amherst in Massachusetts, she
had published this work thatwas so inspiring because the
impetus of the work was from hergrandmother's thesis.
The impetus of the work was fromher grandmother's thesis, and
so here you have thiscontemporary scholar in 2022
writing about straw craft, strawwork, and she's writing about
(05:54):
it in reflection of a piece ofarchival material that she found
during her discovery that ledher to her grandmother, and so
her grandmother's thesis in 1968, along with some more
contemporary scholarship byKaren Knowles, which is a strong
account of the industry in theBahamas.
(06:15):
These documents start to kindof help us glean a little bit of
what the history looks like,because there is no formal text,
as it were.
We have articles in newspapers,we have articles by scholars,
but nothing comprehensive, whichis something that I think will
(06:35):
be fascinating for this part ofthe world, and so, for me, what
is most interesting withCambridge's work is because
she's not only talking about thehistorical significance of this
practice.
But she is then creating abridge between the historical
and the contemporary by nowciting exhibitions and artwork
(06:58):
by contemporary Bahamian womenartists that use the straw craft
essence and some of the weavingstyles to pay homage to these
kind of 19th century practices.
Right, and so for me, scholarslike Cambridge, and the work
(07:18):
that she's doing.
I think there was a recentexhibition that she curated at
the National Art Gallery.
It was entitled.
It comes from the head StrawHeritage, and so she's including
artists like Anina Major,artists like Avery Wright, who
are ceramicists but also workingin the sculptural form and
(07:42):
having themselves connectionswith women in their family who
were straw benders.
So the contemporary, pullingfrom the historical, not only
through scholarship but throughthe artistic practice, is quite
inspiring for scholars likemyself.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That was beautifully said.
Especially, I did come acrossthat article, thinking through
that scholars work in terms ofnot only her own scholarship but
that of her grandmothers, and Ithink I'm just really drawn to
the way that art brings usthrough genealogies and you know
, your answer helped captivate.
What I'm hoping we explore is,you know, this way of us
(08:24):
thinking through art and arteducation, but connecting the
past and the present.
And so, before we get too muchinto the present, I do want to
take us back a bit to this 20thcentury moment.
I think, especially across alot of the Anglophone Caribbean,
that mid to late 20th centuryperiod is, of course, caribbean.
(08:47):
That mid to late 20th centuryperiod is, of course, very
impactful and influential for alot of reasons, the main one
being independence, obviously.
But that period also marks alot of ways that, as our islands
are becoming independentnations, we are trying to, not
that we didn't have our ownidentities, but we're, you know,
staking claims at it in veryintentional ways as we are
(09:07):
becoming independent.
And so some of your research,as I know, does touch on this
moment and you know whatBahamian visual culture was
looking like as we transitionedfrom being colonies to
independent.
I know you've given us a fewartists already, but who are
some of the key artists of thisperiod in the you know like mid
(09:29):
50s and 60s, and how did theirexperiences shape the artistic
identity of the Bahamas?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you for bringing it forward to the 20th
century, because I have a littlebit more to talk about, seeing
that.
That's where my scholarshiplives, and I'm primarily
concerned with the 1950s and 60sbecause I'm interested in at
least reclaiming some of thememories that still exist
through some of the figures thatare still alive, right, they're
(09:58):
mentees, they're students,right.
And so that's why I chose tofocus on the 20th century in
this work.
And for the 1950s, for theBahamas, this prefaced the
moment across the Caribbean,diaspora of that nationalist
momentum, right Territoriesbecoming independent we have,
(10:20):
with the lead of countries likeJamaica and Trinidad in the 60s
and the Bahamas in the 70s.
I think oftentimes we celebratethose moments in those years
but we ignore and this is just,for instance, you know,
civilians, my mom, my cousins,co-workers.
(10:44):
They forget about what happensbefore, right, what led up to
that, because there was a lot ofwork, a lot of labor involved
in those victories, and so the1950s and 60s stand out as those
periods of labor, andoftentimes the artistic element,
(11:04):
and oftentimes the artisticelement, the artistic
contributions of artists thatwere also educators, go
unnoticed, and for me there weretwo Caribbean men who led the
four as it relates to formaleducation and informal
(11:24):
alternative education outside ofthe classroom.
And those two men were HoraceWright, who was the educator in
the formal setting, who wouldhave actually been the only arts
educator for the entire Bahamas, which is an archipelago of
islands, which is an archipelagoof islands, and so imagining
(11:48):
that students would only havehim once a month, or once every
two months, you know, because hehad to make his rounds, he had
to travel to these differentspaces.
And then you have a DonaldRussell, who was really in the
space of alternative artseducation, where he was all
about what we now would refer toas community arts education and
(12:12):
creating spaces that allowed,particularly in this moment of
segregation, whites and blacksto learn in the same space.
And these were students thatwere finishing high school and
maybe transitioning into theworkforce or, for those who are
a little bit more privileged,traveling abroad to continue
(12:34):
their education, right.
And so here we had a space thatthey could do that.
And what I find most interestingabout these individuals, as
they are a reflection of themigratory patterns that were so
intense at this moment, becausehere we have Horace Wright that
was actually born in Chicago toJamaican parents and he moved to
(12:59):
the Bahamas at the age of two,and so he knew no other home
really but the Bahamas.
But he was born to Jamaicanparents and born in the United
States, right, and so thefluidity of identity is so
interesting as it kind of marksour cultural imprinting and what
(13:19):
we identify as home or what weidentify as personhood,
nationhood, and so I find thatinteresting in his story.
But then when we look at DonaldRussell, it's a very similar
kind of mobility that hasimpacted his cultural kind of
(13:41):
identity, in the sense thatDonald Russell was born to
Bahamian parents but he was bornin New York and he migrated to
the Bahamas.
He returned to the Bahamas, Ishould say, in his late 30s to
start the Donald Russell ArtsAcademy, which was in an academy
(14:05):
of sorts Academy is such aextravagant term.
It was really a studio, his artstudio, that he opened up to a
few students who were lookingfor mentorship and he in a way
had started a momentum ofcommunity-driven arts
(14:28):
experiences that have manifestedthroughout the years through
spaces like Project ICE thatopened in the early 2020s.
(14:50):
And so we see there that thistradition of learning outside of
the formal classroom has alegacy that started with
post-independence moment.
It started with Donald Russell.
So these two icons I'm veryfascinated about who they were
and what they contributed,particularly because in reading
(15:12):
the few texts that exist onBahamian art history, they only
ever appear as footnotes in thathistory.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I'm always so intrigued when we really dive
into people's origins in the waythat you carve out for us,
because, you know, whether welike it or not, movement and
migration is always a part ofthat Caribbean, not just the
(15:42):
islands, right, we move, we comeback, we return, as you
mentioned, and it's part of notonly our individual histories
but of, you know, our globalcapacities and influence on the
world in a lot of ways and, asyou sort of outlined, for us,
right, these are things that areintegral to these particular
artists and educators, but forus as a people, right, I think
(16:06):
it builds bridges in a lot ofways that sometimes, you know,
when we tend to think of thingsalong nationalistic lines, it
sort of gets away from thatpoint, which I'm really proud of
.
In addition, I'm also, you know,really interested in learning
more about Russell and hisacademy, just because, from a
Jamaican standpoint at least,you know we talk a lot about
(16:28):
Edna Manley and her impact onarts.
You know our art school isnamed after her in Kingston.
But what does this sort ofmoment of Russell's academy mean
for the Bahamas, especiallyalong racial lines, as you
mentioned?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, I think it's really important you raising
this idea of racial kind ofimpact, and not only racial
impact but economic impact.
You know racial capitalism, forexample.
You know racial capitalism, forexample, how that would have
(17:09):
created very difficult scenariosfor a thriving artistic kind of
moment.
Right, I often tell students ifI'm teaching, particularly a
studio class, and you knowstudents often say, oh, art
supplies are so expensive, and Ithink they are, but imagine the
masterpieces that were producedthat we are in awe of now.
(17:30):
An individual who had nocommunity.
That looked like him right Inthe arts.
(17:50):
He had to lean to some of hisother colleagues at the time in
literary arts, in performingarts, to find a sense of
community.
And you know, for thoselistening, you know they may
remember the names of TG Gloveror RH Sawyer and these educators
(18:17):
.
They would probably onlyremember their names because a
lot of the educationalinstitutions today that exist
secondary education, primaryeducation these schools are
named after these individualsbecause of the impact of their
work.
And so I think that speaksvolumes not only of their
(18:39):
contributions individually butcollectively and how they would
have had to support each otheracross the arts.
And I like to talk about artwith an S because the visual
arts, performing arts, literaryarts, they all lean on each
other in different moments.
In the Black Power movement onthe United States or the Black
Arts movement in the Black PowerMovement on the United States,
(19:00):
or the Black Arts Movement inthe United Kingdom, the Harlem
Renaissance.
You often realize that theartists are always in community,
despite the genre of art thatis being produced, right, they
inform each other.
And so we see how writers likeClaude McKay writing about
(19:24):
certain artists, um, througharticles, through poetry,
through book chapters, etc.
And I feel for the Bahamas,that was really important during
this moment that prefacedindependence, because you had
this Black majority workingtogether to actually promote the
(19:49):
importance of what it means tocelebrate who we are.
Our identity is through thiskind of Black expression, right,
this Afro-Bahamian expressionthrough the visual, through the
literary, through the performing.
And so oftentimes there areimages that I share,
particularly of Horace Wright,thanks to his granddaughter, who
(20:15):
is also an art educator, andMiss Wright she shares this
image with me, where you seethese art educators Horace
Wright standing as really aminority, with a few of his
colleagues in other artsdepartments, but as a minority
to the prominent white Britisheducators who, for the most part
(20:38):
, dominate the education spaceand as a residual of that
domination, we see that some ofthe curricula, the textbooks,
the language and the structureof our education still reflects
that kind of colonial impetus.
(20:59):
And so I imagine to be teachingin this moment was very much
radical.
We don't speak about Blackradical education in the
Caribbean.
So much Black radicalismtypically comes from the
African-American spaces, right,black radical thought.
However, when we think of CLRJames, black radical thought.
(21:25):
However, when we think of CLRJames, you know we have to
remember CLR James and StuartHall.
These are Caribbeanists, so tospeak, who are, yes, speaking
often from an African-Americanspace.
But again, you speak tomigration.
But again you speak tomigration.
(22:04):
Where did these individuals?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
come from right, and so I like to think of the work
that I'm doing as a continuationof Black radicalism for the
Caribbean in how I am hoping todecolonize arts education
through the momentum thatexisted prior to independence.
Certainly, I think that that's areally great point.
Even you know, to add on to CLRJames and to Stuart Hall, when
we think of radical politics inthe Caribbean, it often is in
like a political, in terms oflike a governmental sense, right
, or you know something likethat and for us to be able to
(22:26):
bring that internally into likean education sense.
I know there has definitely beena lot of conversation around
Walter Rodney's impact.
You know, at UWE, mona, I thinkdefinitely from a higher
education space, from acollegiate, you know sense, but
to think of arts education asalso being an avenue for us to
(22:50):
explore, that, I think, isdefinitely a wonderful thing for
us to pay attention to and toalso historicize for future
generations.
You brought up a reallyinteresting point that you know
in terms of some of thechallenges of establishing arts
education in the 50s and the 60s.
How have you seen thesechallenges evolve since then?
(23:12):
What are some of the ones thatstill prevail today, especially
as it relates to Afro-Bahamians,and how have aspects of you
know things like culturalidentity and you know
nationalism, et cetera arefactored into some of these
challenges in arts educationtoday.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I think, going back to the moments that preceded
independence, when independence,when the political figures at
that time were thinking aboutways in which they could
reinvent what it means to beBahamian through this
independent moment.
(23:53):
And so the arts then becomethis tool for articulating that
message.
And in that moment we havefigures like E Clements Bethel,
who emerges after independenceas a kind of minister for
culture, for arts, forcreativity, and we have in this
(24:17):
moment the forming of acollective of creatives like
James O'Reill, who was an artseducator, but then he is kind of
coming into the space of thestate, the government, and
working in culture and culturalkind of, not so much
(24:37):
preservation but culturalawareness.
And what I find interesting isthat culture then becomes
important to bolster nationaldevelopment.
Right, and the challenge, whatI've seen happen over the years,
(24:58):
is this energy that existed inthis moment of independence, the
years after independence, wherea lot of cultural advocates,
historians, archaeologists,writers were excited, right, and
so were the political figures,in funding and supporting these
individuals and preserving whatit means to be Bahamian, what it
(25:19):
means to promote Bahamianidentity and cultural practices.
And year by year, decade bydecade, you saw that fade right,
that excitement for what itmeans to be aligned with foreign
elements, be it European, be itNorth American, etc.
(25:45):
Particularly as the tensionswith migration, right, and that
respectability politics where alot of Bahamians, particularly
searching for what we call quoteunquote a better education in
North American universities inthe 50s and 60s, we see that
thrust of students travel andwhat it means for those students
(26:09):
who are then abroad to lookback or to return, as you say,
and how, little by little, thatexodus of knowledge and that
return of imparted knowledge, ifit even returns, what does that
cause for the momentum and forthe sustainability and survival
(26:32):
for culture?
Because it means, over a periodof time, cultural elements are
lost or they are changing.
Elements are lost or they arechanging.
And I think historians andcultural advocates from the 70s,
they feel that the Hamanscholars of tomorrow are not as
(26:52):
concerned with their African andindigenous roots and they feel
that a lot is being lost.
And so for me, I think thechallenges are how do you
continue to preserve when a lotis changing and how can you
actually bring change into thefold, right?
(27:14):
How can you convince thoseveteran historians and scholars
and cultural advocates that it'sokay to allow for change?
Change is inevitable right, andso, for me, that's something
that I'm often grappling with.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Definitely.
You've certainly given us a lotto think about and also a lot
of artists and scholars for usto definitely delve into for our
listeners who want to learnmore about Bahamian visual
culture.
What are some of your favoriteexamples of you know, this 20th
century art and art educationshowing up in popular culture?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I think one of the really interesting, interesting
parts or elements of Bahamianculture that has evolved from
our African and indigenousidentity, you know, from the
continent, that persists to now,is this idea of Junkanoo.
(28:20):
Right, junkanoo for us is anarts festival that is celebrated
Boxing Day, new Year's Day, andit is traced back to our West
African roots.
Right, we make parallels withthe Igungun Masquerade Festival
of the Yoruba peoples, and whatI think is so fascinating is
(28:42):
because it's undeniably Africanbut it's also undeniably
Bahamian.
And what does that mean?
Right, when you see an AfricanYoruba costume or mask of the,
say, the early 19th century,compared to one of the Bahamas
(29:06):
in that period, and thencomparing those contemporary
materials or products of thefestival, now, right, it's
undeniable that there is adiaspora connection that is so
beautiful and so important tothis idea of evolution.
And I think for me, when wetalk about education, that in
(29:32):
itself, the materials, thesounds that are produced,
because it's a multimodalfestival, so we have dance, we
have music, we have the artisticelements of the costumes and
for students who are eitherartists or taking art criticism
(29:55):
or arts writing, that exists asa form of what I referred to
earlier in Simone Cambridge'swork, bridging the contemporary
with the historical right andshowing the value in studying,
preserving Bahamian culture andarts over time.
(30:15):
Junkanoo is an idealpedagogical tool to think
through these ideas of change,evolution, african Indigenous
identity, contemporaryinterpretations of those
identities for students todayand tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Definitely and one I hope that you know certainly
continues.
I think especially they were,you know, recently over the
Christmas holiday there were alot of reports for Jamaica's
junkanoo and how you know it'sdecreased significantly over the
last you know few decades.
So one that I definitely hopenot only is preserved but
definitely lively.
So one that I definitely hopenot only is preserved but
(31:04):
definitely lively, and continuesin mass for all of the region.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But I have a question for you, and this is why I
think now the state in theBahamas is taking an interest in
, a serious interest ininvesting in culture when
establishing a I think it waslast early last year a museum
dedicated for John Canoe.
I think investments like thatreally speak to the level of
value, because oftentimes yourealize certain disciplines
within the academy, certainideas and ideologies do not
resonate as valuable as currency, right um for small island,
(31:47):
developing states like, uh,jamaica, like the bahamas, and
can you, can you say thatjamaica, outside of music,
outside of the arts, is thefestival um johnoo has been
given that same level of umvalue for your, for your
(32:07):
government no, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I think you know, in a lot of ways, folk cultures if
that's what some people wouldcertainly label junkanoo or
other sorts of um creative andcultural practices as compared
to you know, like latter 20thcentury um practices between
reggae and dancehall especiallybecome, come to dominate and, of
course, from a financial aspect, they are bringing in monies in
(32:33):
droves in ways that I thinkthere's definitely more
investment.
Um, from a governmental sense,looked towards um, but the, of
course, the thing that we alwayshave to be aware of as people,
as islands, as um, as our, youknow, as caribbean people, is,
yes, the money coming in fromtourism etc is definitely
(32:55):
important, but there comes atime where we have to definitely
be aware of how neglecting someof the things that made us who
we are and in this case you knowwe're talking about Junkanoo,
but neglecting the histories andthe importance of some of those
early practices in our earlydevelopment, will then lead to
(33:16):
sort of like a watering down.
I mean, there are a lot of folkpractices that went on to
influence Jamaican popularculture, particularly music,
especially when we're thinkingof things like kumina and
definitely other folk religiousand cultural practices.
And yeah, to your question, ifwe continue to neglect them from
(33:39):
, like you know, a more focusedpoint on what's solely bringing
in money, we will lose parts ofwho we are.
For generations to come, wewon't be the same.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
But why I ask?
Is because you know I hadwritten a paper recently trying
to kind of make theseconnections diasporically with
Caribbean territories likeJamaica, like the Bahamas.
And as you're aware, you knowJamaica and the Bahamas are very
, very different.
You know the Bahamas is a lotsmaller.
They became independent almost10 years later.
(34:13):
So I feel like you could almostmake these parallels with how
(34:40):
the cultural kind of evolutionof the Afro elements of
Jamaicans cultural evolutionwere so much further ahead
because of that, because of thembecoming independent, because
they were a lot larger.
So the dominance of the mass ofpeople and then also the
migration patterns.
There had been a lot ofmigration between Jamaica and
the Bahamas, mainly outward,from Jamaica to the Bahamas.
In education I couldn'tidentify if arts education was
specifically impacted.
But I raise that point becauseI think that the more we can
(35:01):
lean into really investigatingand critiquing these kind of
cultural flows, right ofknowledge and artistic
production, we may glean somevery interesting kind of
scholarship that has neverreally been thought of, right,
(35:23):
because we're always thinkingabout migration outward, to you
know first world countries forexample, and not really making
more of the diasporic kind ofconnections with that mobility,
particularly from an educationalstandpoint, kind of connections
with that mobility,particularly from an educational
standpoint.
And so I thought, yeah, jamaicais of interest, and also Haiti,
but that's a whole otherconversation.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, certainly I think to your point on diaspora,
right like that's definitelyone of my impetuses for starting
this show.
I think I've been able to,through my own education, study
and explore some of thesesimilarities and continuities
through migration and things tothat nature, but they're not
always as present inconversation and I think in a
lot of ways it's not only justabout the scholarship that could
(36:12):
be produced, but definitely forour own.
You know cultural or communalpreservations, right as you
brought up the state a littlebit ago, and you know the
problems with the state inpreserving some of these things.
Sometimes we have to do it forourselves, and so that's
something that you know I'mpassionate about in terms of,
(36:32):
you know, just harboring anddocumenting our own stories for
that legacy for the future anddocumenting our own stories for
that legacy for the future.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, and I commend you on that works, because I
feel that, mainly for archivalpurposes and we see particularly
a lot what's going on in the USthat we have to look to
alternative ways of preservingoutside of the institutions,
because everything is at risk,right, because everything is at
risk right.
And so I think for me, I'vealways been very much big on
(37:07):
community archiving or citizenarchiving and personal archives
and things being multi-sided,particularly with climate change
being imminent threats to theCaribbean, what it means for us
to think about having ourlegacies continue outside of the
fact that, you know, in 2050,the Bahamas may no longer be
(37:30):
where it is, it may beunderwater, right, and so how do
we preserve who Bahamians wereoutside of the physicality of
the Bahamas?
And so, yeah, I think the workthat you're doing kind of speaks
to those alternative ways thatwe can continue the conversation
and be in community, outside ofnational community but
(37:51):
Caribbean community, diasporacommunity to come to these
solutions.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Certainly, certainly, I think that, you know,
definitely brings me to my finalquestion as our you know
Bahamian art expert, for ourepisode today what are certainly
some of your hopes for thefuture of Bahamian art,
caribbean art and the artseducation that is, you know,
obviously intertwined with ourdiscussion today?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
you know, obviously intertwined with our, our
discussion today.
So, for me, I am really leaningtowards, like I'd mentioned
previously, this idea ofactually challenging my past
self.
And so, when I started mydoctoral program, I was upset, I
was livid.
I'm like why does so much ofthe Hayman history exist outside
of the bahamas?
Why is it so much moreaccessible to me, um, once I am
(38:43):
not home, to access thisinformation, right, and these
repositories that exist ineurope, in the us, etc.
And now I'm realizing, like Imentioned previously, about the
threat of climate change,particularly with flooding and
islands not being habitable, etc.
(39:03):
There is value with this idea ofmulti-sidedness, right, but not
only multi-sidedness, but themulti-modality, the fact that
not all elements of culture willresonate in written form or be
articulated well in written form.
But we need to think aboutpodcasts, right, oral histories,
(39:24):
song, dance, other ways,african diasporic archival
methods is what interests me.
Or Black diasporic archivalmethods, or preservation methods
that not only embody who we are, but look back on some of the
(39:46):
indigenous practices of ourancestors and bring them to the,
to the fore right, bring themto the contemporary being, um,
so that we can honor ourancestors but we can also be
moving in a way that decolonizesa lot of what we know to be
archiving or preservation.
So for me I'm using arteducation as a inroad to think
(40:12):
about the broader aspect ofcultural heritage and
documenting aspect of culturalheritage.
And documenting, reclaimingthrough discovery of archives,
mainly in the United Statesbecause that's where I'm located
now, but over the next yearwhen I start to travel with my
(40:42):
research in Europe, specificallyin London, and looking at those
archives and almost creatinglike a network so that this idea
of discovery we can illuminatewhat exists in these archives
and almost create a way forfuture researchers to have the
resources that are needed tocreate the educational material
to teach and to nurture thisidea of community art education.
(41:06):
So I hope that answers yourquestion?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yes, it does.
I think in a lot of ways, youknow, our inspirations are very
similar right To document thesethings for ourselves in ways for
them to last, right, so thesehistories are not lost,
especially when that comes tobeing predominantly communities
that are Afro diasporiccommunities, and so any ways
(41:32):
that we can continue thesethings and make them more
accessible, whether that bedigitally or you know other
avenues, as you mentioned issomething that I'm always
excited about and definitelyrooting for you as you enter
this fieldwork and dissertationstage, because I'm really
looking forward to seeing whatcomes of your work in terms of
arts, education and so, withthat, our Strictly Facts family.
(41:56):
I hope you really enjoyedlistening to this episode.
I know it was one that, for me,brought a lot of pieces
together that I'm interested inbetween education and the arts.
You know, black Power,movements, empowerment, all of
these things communal practicesand community and, yeah, I will
definitely add a lot of thelinks and stuff that we
(42:18):
mentioned today to the StrictlyFacts syllabus for our listeners
to check out.
Um, thank you so much, keisha,for sharing with us about, you
know, your own personal historyand journey and, um, academic
work and interest, and you know,till next time, little more.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I appreciate you.
Thank you so much StrictlyFacts.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Thanks for tuning in to Strictly Facts.
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