September 17, 2025 • 45 mins
We’ve all heard the advice to “be an effective communicator.” But what does that really mean beyond the buzzword? In this episode, veteran sports reporter and Talk Sporty to Me founder Jen Mueller shares lessons from 25 years on the sidelines, where conversations happen under pressure, in the heat of wins and losses. Together, we explore how those lessons translate into clearer, more courageous communication for business leaders.
Resources:
- Jen's website
- Connect with Jen:
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teri-m-schmidt/
Get 1-on-1 leadership support from Teri here: https://www.strongleadersserve.com/coaching
Set up an intro call with Teri: https://calendly.com/terischmidt/discoverycall
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What does it mean to really bean effective communicator?
We hear that phrase all thetime, but in this episode, we go
beneath the buzzwords with JenMueller, a veteran SportsLine
reporter for the SeattleSeahawks, longtime member of the
Seattle Mariners Broadcast Teamand founder of Talk Sporty to
me, with over 25 years ofexperience covering the
(00:23):
N-F-L-N-B-A-M-L-B-N-H-L andmore, Jen brings unique insights
from locker rooms whereconversations happen just
minutes after big wins orcrushing losses.
She shows us how sports culturenormalizes tough conversations
and what leaders can learn tobring that same clarity,
(00:45):
accountability, and trust totheir teams.
I'm Terry Schmidt, executive andleadership coach at Strong
Leaders Serve, where we partnerwith organizations to prepare
leaders for the everyday stretchmoments of leadership, the
promotion that makes old habitsobsolete, the reorg that shakes
trust, or the high stakesproject where influence matters
(01:08):
more than authority.
And this is the Strong LeadersServe podcast.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:06):
Well, hi
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (02:07):
Jen.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:07):
to the Strong Leader Serve Podcast.
I'm really looking forward to,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (02:10):
to our conversation
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:11):
oh, this is gonna be a fun one.
Terry.
I have been, I am this one for awhile on my calendar.
Well,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (02:17):
excellent, And I know you're usually
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (02:19):
usually on the other side
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (02:20):
side of the microphone
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:21):
so I'm
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (02:23):
to have you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:24):
that experience
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:25):
and that expertise.
And especially as we talk aboutwhat it means to be an effective
communicator.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:31):
But I'd love to start with your
story because even though thatis
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (02:36):
a
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:36):
you know, effective
teri-schmidt_1_09 (02:37):
communicator,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:38):
sound symbol, it could be actually
incredibly
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (02:42):
complex.
I
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:43):
you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (02:43):
you've
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:43):
25 years
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (02:45):
years in sports,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:46):
where communication
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:48):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (02:49):
pressure isn't
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (02:49):
isn't optional.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (02:51):
right.
So I'd love to hear.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (02:52):
about
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:53):
your journey and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:54):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:54):
of the things that you've learned
along the way.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (02:56):
way.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:57):
Well, as you mentioned, I've spent 25
years in sports broadcasting.
I've done both television andradio.
I have been behind the scenes asa producer and I have been in
front of the cameras and with amicrophone actually delivering
the stories and the post gameinterviews.
It's been a really fun ride.
First got into sportsbroadcasting.
(03:18):
You know, there weren't thatmany women who were doing this,
and so the advice we were given.
Was to just be quiet.
The advice we were given was tonot draw attention to ourselves
to make sure that nobody knewthat we were the woman in the
room.
And I gotta be honest, when youwalk into a locker room full of
men, it's pretty hard to figureout or hide the fact that you
(03:38):
were the only woman in there.
But I say that because, youknow, I think at the time it
was, it was well-intentionedadvice.
Nobody really knew what to do.
So what I was craving was theactual practical advice that
would help me do my job better.
Instead, I kept hearing, Hey,just put yourself in the corner
(03:58):
and try to not rock the boat.
'cause that's what's gonna beeasiest for everybody.
When we think about effectivecommunication, there's so many
things that we either keep.
Hidden intentionally orotherwise, or that we fail to
say that creates these hugebarriers and it's as simple as
not finishing the thought wehave in our head.
(04:21):
And I don't have the luxury ofdoing that because I don't get
to go back and ask for thatinterview a second or a third
time.
It has to be done right now ondeadline in a very short amount
of time.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (04:33):
Right.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (04:34):
Right.
I think about your experienceand I can't imagine because I,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:39):
I,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (04:40):
I watch a lot of hockey.
So I'm a Dallas Star fan, and I,I can't imagine going in those
locker rooms after a game six,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:47):
or a
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (04:47):
seven off in the playoffs, or, you
know, on the other side.
I, I can't imagine going
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:54):
in
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (04:54):
win.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:55):
Of course.
I'm sure that's a little bitmore fun, but.
Most
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (04:58):
Would
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (04:59):
avo
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (04:59):
those conversations that you think of
being
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (05:01):
equivalent
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (05:02):
the workplace.
Those are high emotions.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (05:05):
you're
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (05:06):
Probably think
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (05:07):
let's just
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (05:08):
that settle a little bit before we
have that conversation.
So hear about what about couragethat takes.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (05:16):
to walk into that discomfort
instead of away from it.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (05:20):
Well, there's a few things that I make
sure that I do personally beforeI walk into the room, and then
there's a few things that sportsactually does to make this
easier.
So from the sports point ofview, when you go to a hockey
game, every single person inthat arena knows what the
objective is.
The objective is to win thegame, and you are gonna do that
(05:43):
by scoring more goals than theother team, and that seems like
it is overly simplified andreally obvious.
But too often in business, weare not as clear as we need to
be on what that objective is,whether that is what high
performance looks like, whetherthat is what success looks like,
a deadline looks like.
There's all sorts of things thatwe assume people can either read
(06:06):
our mind or already on the samepage.
Sports doesn't do that.
Sports is very, very clear.
So when I already have theexpectation set that you are
going in to win the game, whenyou come up short.
Everybody knows there's gonna bea conversation about why you
came up short and what wentwrong in this whole process.
(06:26):
So sports takes care of thatpart.
There's the expectation alreadythat I'm gonna go in there.
When I do go in there, there's acouple of things I have to
remember.
Number one, they just wanna getit over with.
They already know what happened.
They already know how theyscrewed up, how they came up
short, how they failed toexecute on what they practiced
(06:47):
all week long, or what they'vepracticed for the last couple of
days.
They already know.
You cannot ease your way intothat conversation.
You don't have to beconfrontational, and you don't
have to be rude, but you do justneed to come out and say, what
happened on that power play?
What happened?
When you couldn't make the catchin the end zone, right.
(07:10):
Just tell me your side of thestory.
Okay?
And then number two, I need totake myself out of the equation.
There is a lot of emotion in alocker room after any outcome.
But it's not directed at me.
If I can just recognize thehuman being that's standing in
front of me and understand thatI know how it feels to
(07:32):
disappoint somebody, or to comeup short or to not perform the
way that I wanted to just sitand let them have that emotion,
which means their answer mightbe short, their answer might
seem abrupt to people listeningon the other side, it might
sound rude, but I already had awin because you chose to answer
my question.
(07:53):
So if you reframe what'sactually happening in that
moment and take your own ego andemotion out of it, now I can let
you have the space that you needwhile answering something that,
quite honestly, you probablydon't wanna talk about at the
end of your workday.
Yeah,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (08:10):
Yeah.
Yeah,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:12):
yeah.
There are two thread in therethat I'd love to dig into a
little bit further.
First, you talked about, youknow, your work has kind of done
for you in terms of theexpectations.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (08:20):
setting.
You either met it or you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (08:22):
And I think that is, you know, a
challenge at the beginning of adifficult conversation sometimes
for leaders if that expectationof having,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (08:31):
been set
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (08:32):
because then they don't have something
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (08:34):
to.
Cleanly
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:35):
back.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (08:36):
to.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (08:36):
And so that's almost a
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (08:38):
a
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:38):
whole other conversation or a whole
another part of thatconversation that they have
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (08:43):
to have on
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (08:44):
of this,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (08:46):
discomfort riddled
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:48):
Yeah, they have to have point because
someone need that performancethat they
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (08:52):
they didn't
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (08:53):
can Yeah.
Share clearly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so when we think about toughconversations, if we focus on
the fundamentals of effectivecommunication, those tough
conversations get easier.
So what I advise leaders to do,and actually everybody in every
interaction, use the ETAformula.
(09:14):
So that's what I started usingin locker rooms to make sure
that I got exactly what I neededfrom interviews.
And I know ETA normally standsfor estimated time of arrival.
It's very convenient.
So now every time you get intoyour car, you will think about
this as well.
But for me it stands forexpectation, timeline, and
action item.
So if I'm asking you for aninterview, I'm not just gonna
(09:36):
say, do you have time for aninterview today?
That's one way to ask thequestion would, which would be
the equivalent of a leadersaying, can you get this done?
Okay, now done.
There's a whole bunch ofdifferent ways we can define
done, and when I think aboutwhat we actually need to
communicate effectively, I haveto spell it out for you.
(09:58):
Expectation, timeline, andaction item.
When I'm asking for aninterview, do you have time to
answer two questions about thisweekend's matchup.
I can find you after practice.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (10:08):
Hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (10:09):
Everybody can be in agreement on what that
looks like.
And if you don't agree to anypart of that equation, we can
level set.
Oh, after practice today doesn'twork, but after practice
tomorrow does.
Great.
Now we've agreed to that.
If you don't show up for thatinterview, I've got a much
easier entry point back to say,Hey, what happened?
(10:29):
We agreed that this was gonnatake place and here's what was
gonna happen.
Same thing if we're talkingabout a business situation,
right?
Can you get the job done?
How about if we add some ETA ontop of this, right?
Can you pull all of thefinancials from Q1 and Q2 and
get those to me by four o'clockon Friday?
(10:52):
You're gonna say yes or no.
We are going to come intoagreement if four o'clock on
Friday comes and goes, and Ihave not gotten that from you.
Now I've got an easier way tocome back and say, okay, is
everything okay?
We agreed on this, what got inthe way, and now that
conversation is expected.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (11:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (11:13):
I'm curious because it,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (11:13):
because
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (11:14):
it seems simple
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (11:14):
seems
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (11:15):
and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:15):
and I'm
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:15):
sure
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:16):
you know, listeners have heard a lot
of people talk about needing to
jen-mueller_1_09- (11:20):
expectations.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (11:21):
when they're delegating.
In particular, what do you thinkgets in the
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (11:25):
What, what
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (11:26):
what
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (11:27):
leader from clearly defining their
expectations in that way.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (11:31):
in that way?
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (11:32):
I think we have a hard time
slowing down and being veryhonest and very clear of what we
want to get out of that, or whatwe want to do, you know?
We either assume that people canread our minds or that we're
going to get to the sameconclusion.
Sometimes you don't wanna feellike you're micromanaging or
(11:53):
nagging, but the reality isyou've gotta sit with it.
It probably takes you.
Longer than you want to send avery clear email, text, or Slack
message.
But that clarity allows peopleto move with confidence and
allows them to take the nextright steps.
And I think we need to sit withthings instead of just checking
(12:13):
it off the to-do list that Iturned it over to you now this
is your problem to solve and nowyou can go off and do this.
What do I need to get?
And in sports broadcasting, Iget one shot.
And I have to know exactly whatI'm gonna get out of those two
questions.
And so I need to sit with whatthat ask is before I ever bring
it up with an athlete.
(12:34):
Mm-hmm.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (12:34):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (12:36):
Yeah.
And I,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (12:37):
I don't
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (12:38):
I don't think that should be
different necessarily inleadership either that,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (12:41):
that,
jen-mueller_1_09-03- (12:42):
Rethinking that, sitting with it before the
actual encounter or the actualact.
Yeah.
And it changes everything aboutthe conversation.
It is everything from could youcall me when you get a chance to
let me know what you think to,you know, do you have time to
chat?
(13:02):
We think we're communicating andwhat we're actually doing is
creating a lot of drama andconfusion.
All anybody wants is to be ableto contribute, to have value,
and to know that they're doingsomething great for the team.
It doesn't matter if you're anathlete or if it is your team at
work and the clearer you canmake that by going one step
(13:24):
further, right?
Could you call me sometimebefore five o'clock?
I've got a few ideas I wanna runpast you on a new marketing
campaign, and I think you're theperson to ask.
That makes all the difference inhow that conversation is
received and the level ofcommunication that was had.
Yeah.
(13:44):
Yeah.
And I, I love what I've heardhere too about, I think you're
the person to ask, you are, youare showing them
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (13:50):
them
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (13:51):
they matter,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (13:51):
matter, that they're needed.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (13:53):
You're also injecting a little bit of
the y so,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (13:56):
There
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (13:57):
that they
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (13:58):
they
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (13:58):
have that meaning behind their.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:00):
their work.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (14:00):
Further
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:01):
can further
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (14:01):
found upon that as you comment, but
even just in that
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:05):
short
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (14:06):
of sentence,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:07):
you gave, you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:10):
gave some clarity around what was
going to be asked.
Kind of why, why it matters thenyou're able to build on that
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (14:18):
that
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (14:19):
the conversation first.
Yep, yep.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:22):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (14:22):
That's great.
That's great.
Well, one thing that I heardfrom you talk about
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (14:26):
is open-ended questions and in
particular in negotiations.
Mean you said that they're
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (14:32):
Always
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (14:33):
always helpful.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (14:34):
So open-ended questions aren't
always helpful.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (14:36):
in negotiations.
Can
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:38):
Tell me more about that.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:39):
that?
I'm curious.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (14:41):
I consider every interaction that
I have with an athlete, anegotiation.
None of them have to talk to me.
I am always trying to convincethem as to why they should talk
to me right now about a certainsubject.
And here is what I have learnedin all of the hundreds of
thousands of interviews andpeople that I've talked to.
The answer is what the answerwas always going to be.
(15:03):
Now if you are talking about I'mnegotiating for one extra
vacation day, or I'm looking forthis much more revenue for this
outcome, yeah, there's somewiggle room there, but.
In general, the answer is what?
The answer is.
You could go and ask for araise.
If that raise is 25% of what youare already making and that just
(15:25):
isn't gonna work based on thepool of money to be divvied up.
It does not matter how many waysyou ask the question or state
your case and try to make thisvery fluffy.
So here's what we need to do.
Just ask the real question.
And it's okay to ask a yes noquestion because sometimes the
answer is.
(15:45):
Yes or no?
Was this within the scope ofwork that you were looking at
Now?
I hope that the answer is yes,right?
Because if I want you to hireme, I hope the answer is yes,
but 14 paragraphs and a wholebunch of questions in an email
does not change whether it fitsinto your budget or not, or
(16:06):
whether it's the scope of work.
So stop with the extra and don'tbe afraid of how that
conversation is gonna play out.
It.
Just ask the question becausethe clarity right there is more
valuable than anything else.
And now you can come back with,would you like me to resubmit
the proposal, or would you likeme to circle back around in six
(16:30):
months when this might be abetter option for you?
Right?
Don't be afraid of what theoutcome is.
It's not about you.
'cause the answer was what?
The answer was always going tobe.
Mm-hmm.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (16:42):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (16:44):
Yeah.
And that, that gets back to
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (16:45):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:46):
what you were talking about, that the
emotion in the locker room isn'tdirected to you.
I think when you just said, youknow,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (16:53):
it's,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (16:53):
not about you,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (16:54):
you.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:54):
your wife, what gonna be,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:56):
be.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:57):
What
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (16:57):
What
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:58):
that the main
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (16:59):
obstacle
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:59):
when you're working with leaders,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (17:01):
you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (17:01):
speaking
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (17:02):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (17:02):
being able to get through that
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (17:05):
question
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (17:06):
directly
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (17:07):
you know,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (17:08):
or.
Is it
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (17:09):
is
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (17:09):
something else that,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (17:11):
keeps them from doing
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (17:12):
well, again, it's a lot of fear, like
the internal fear of how thatplays out or how that feels on
the other side of theconversation.
I think the other part of thisis we count on conversational
norms and conventional wisdom,and we count on somebody else to
carry the other part of theconversation.
(17:33):
You know, a lot of times when Iam talking to folks about
open-ended questions andclosed-ended questions, you
know, I, I'm, I am thinkingabout it from the broadcasting
standpoint.
My post-game interviews aregenerally three questions.
I don't have time to ease intothat conversation.
Every question has a veryspecific answer, and
(17:55):
conventional wisdom would tellyou that all open-ended
questions are good because itgets people talking, and most of
the time people will answer yourquestion because that is our
conversational norm.
It doesn't mean it's the rightanswer.
It doesn't mean it's a goodanswer.
It doesn't mean that it's theanswer that gets you closer.
We have this illusion that weare communicating and talking to
(18:17):
each other, but we really didn'tknow what we wanted to get out
of the question in the firstplace.
We really didn't know how it wasgonna further the conversation.
We really didn't know whatdirection we were gonna take
because we didn't think throughthe entire conversation, which
is not to say that I'm trying toput words into somebody's mouth,
but if I ask you an open-endedquestion.
(18:39):
There is a fear on the otherside that you don't wanna
disappoint me and you don't knowwhat the right answer is and the
easier I can make that answer.
So I always go into a post-gameinterview thinking the answer
should be easy and obvious.
Not that they wanna talk aboutthe error or you know, what
happened on the power play, butthey know there's only one
(19:00):
answer to that question and theyhave full confidence.
They can give the answer whetheranybody likes that answer or
not.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (19:09):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (19:12):
Yeah.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:12):
The,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (19:13):
I love that the answer should be
easy and obvious when you'reasking that question.
And I think what I'm hearingthere too, getting back to what
we were talking about, about thepreparation necessary
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (19:24):
before
jen-mueller_1_09- (19:25):
communication is that you are being
intentional.
With
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:30):
With
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (19:31):
question that you're asking, with every
conversation that you're goingin, of course we're working with
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:37):
with
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (19:37):
a human, human interaction, so it
may not play out
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (19:40):
directly according
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (19:41):
secret, but at least you have a goal
going in and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (19:47):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (19:48):
you thought about what their goal
might be and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (19:50):
be
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (19:50):
how they might.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:51):
they might respond.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (19:52):
Yeah, and you don't have to know what
the answer is, but you do knowwhat it feels like when you need
to make a decision, right?
You know what you wouldappreciate in the decision
making process.
It's an easy and obviousdecision, right?
Whether it's, no, I can't giveyou 25% is your raise this year.
I can however give you 5% andhere's how we can help work
(20:16):
towards the next part, right?
It just, it's removingconfusion.
It is being kind.
It is being easy to talk tobecause when you are easy to
talk to people, probably will,and that is half the battle of
relationship building.
That is half the battle ofleadership and trust.
If people are afraid to talk toyou for their own insecurities
or just kind of how awkward thatis, or the fear that exists,
(20:39):
it's hard to be an effectiveleader if people don't feel
comfortable having aconversation.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (20:45):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And if they have that stabilityand that confidence that they
know what they're gonna get whenthey're talking to you,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (20:52):
That makes
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (20:53):
it even easier
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (20:54):
come
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (20:55):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (20:55):
with the tough topics, the tough
conversations.
Yeah.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (21:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (21:01):
Well,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (21:03):
what
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (21:03):
you touched on this a little bit,
but I just wanna dig in a littlebit deeper about thoughtful
questions and how they can buildtrust.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (21:11):
and uncover hidden needs.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (21:13):
What does that look like in
teri-schmidt_1_09-03- (21:14):
practice,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (21:15):
So from your experience on the
sidelines or maybe working withleader in the workplace?
So it probably means using thefirst question that comes to
mind as the starting point, butprobably developing that one,
one or two times past.
Where you were gonna go, right?
(21:37):
So here's an example from thesidelines.
If you were a sports fan, youhear this one all the time,
there's a big win, and thereporter will ask, how did it
feel?
And I can tell you, because Ihave covered both a Super Bowl
win and a crushing Super Bowlloss, the answer to that
question.
(21:58):
Is pretty self-explanatory,right?
How do you think it feels to winthe Super Bowl?
It feels awesome.
What?
What answer were you possiblygonna get that was
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (22:06):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (22:06):
genuine, real, and authentic Flip side.
How does it feel to lose a SuperBowl?
It's the worst crushing feelingyou could possibly imagine as a
professional, right?
If I really want you to talkabout the feeling of
celebration.
I need to go one or two stepspast that.
So if we're gonna talk aboutcelebration, my question might
(22:28):
end up to be, because look,everybody likes the feeling of
celebrating, right?
Who's the first person you'regonna call to celebrate this win
with?
And now I've got morestorytelling involved in it
because now you're gonna tell meabout your parent, your spouse,
your sibling, your former coachwho helped get you to this
point.
And now this is a sharedexperience because we all have
(22:49):
the person that we would callwith good news, right?
It also might be how long areyou gonna give yourself to
celebrate this win?
Now I'm talking about the factthat I can't get to see my
family until the middle of theweek, or they're all flying
there.
There's a story there, right?
And so I am looking to go onestep further to make that
(23:12):
connection so that you wereforced to tell me a story, even
if it sounds like it is a closedquestion, right?
So if we ask the question, howdoes it feel?
That is an open-ended question.
I could give any number ofanswers to that question.
(23:32):
You're probably gonna get thesame answer over and over and
over again because nobody wantsto, right?
Give the wrong answer, you know,go outside the line, talk too
much about themselves, talk toomuch about the win rate.
If I just set up a space whereyou know what the answer is,
I've added value to theconversation.
I've also built trust andrapport because now they can
(23:54):
relax and know.
I've got you in this, right?
It was thoughtful.
I knew exactly what I was tryingto accomplish, and you and I
just made a connection in just afew seconds.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
What a great, excuse me, what agreat example.
How would that translate to thework today?
(24:15):
Yeah, so I think really it'sjust about any number of things.
Anytime you think about theopen-ended question.
Think about what you wereactually trying to get out of
it.
So let's go to feedback, right?
Could you let me know what youthink about this?
Or what do you think about this?
(24:36):
How many times do we just askfor that?
Right?
It's the end of an email ormaybe it's the end of a meeting,
right?
Does anybody have anything toadd?
Okay.
How many times do people justreadily raise their hand and
stay on topic while talkingabout the thing that they want
to add?
Right.
There's a lot of differentthings that I could add, but
(24:57):
let's narrow this down and let'sbe really thoughtful about it.
Does anybody have anything toadd related to the timeline of
the new marketing idea based ontheir experience within this
group?
That is a very differentquestion, and that focuses the
conversation right where we needit to go if we're going to ask.
(25:21):
What are your thoughts on this?
It's going to be very difficultto get actionable feedback
because I didn't make this easyand obvious.
Here's where yes, no questionsreally come into play.
What do you think about the fontsize and the information I used
in the PowerPoint?
Those are the two things I'mlooking for feedback on, and
(25:43):
those are pretty easy.
You either like them or youdon't like them, and now I know
if I need to.
Change them.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (25:49):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (25:50):
if that's not the issue, then
you're gonna tell me what it is.
Right.
Narrow that focus, you'll get amore effective answer and you're
probably gonna get a quickerresponse to.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (26:00):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (26:02):
Yeah.
And that goes in with a lot oftimes I will talk to leaders
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (26:06):
leaders
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:07):
have
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (26:07):
asked their
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (26:08):
for feedback and they're, you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:09):
and they're just,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (26:09):
know, frustrated because they're not
getting
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:11):
any
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (26:11):
feedback and you have two things that
work there.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:14):
You have the power differential
first,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (26:16):
But then it's also, it wasn't
specific.
The
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:19):
The
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (26:20):
wasn't.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (26:20):
easy as you had said.
So
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:23):
what we talk about
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:24):
is.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (26:25):
something working on this?
Yeah,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (26:27):
as a leader, and can you say,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (26:30):
I'm working on this.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (26:31):
this.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (26:32):
Yeah.
How did I do in this meetingwith particular skills?
Yes.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (26:37):
example?
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:38):
Yes, and you can use what we would
think about as non-traditionalquestions to get feedback.
We do it all the time.
So you could have folks rankthings in order of importance or
based on how you did it.
I'm working on clarity in mymessaging, respecting
everybody's time and gettingeverybody involved.
(26:58):
Could you rank.
Which one I did best at, second,best at, and third best at.
Right?
If that, if we're still tryingto get over some of the, the
power differential andencouraging people to give
feedback, because again, we needto make this safe for people.
If you want real feedback, weneed to show them that the,
these answers are okay.
(27:19):
And it's okay to say that Iwasn't very good at respecting
people's time today.
Okay.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (27:23):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (27:24):
the feedback that I need.
Right?
On a scale of one to 10, how didI do with each one of those
things?
Anything is possible on that.
Right.
But it, the minute I putparameters around this, it's so
much easier to get the answersthat you really need.
Definitely.
Have you had an experience wherebeing so planned out and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (27:47):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (27:47):
directed.
Knowing what you were going forhas in a sense not put blinders
on the conversation, but perhapskept you from surfacing some
information or stories thatmight have come.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (28:02):
with a more open-ended
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (28:04):
Here's how I look at preparing for
conversations, and I'll tellpeople this, whether you're
giving presentations or you'rewriting out questions for a
podcast.
When you know what you're tryingto accomplish, it's so much
easier to go off script.
Because I know how to get rightback on script.
I would say where trips me upmost often is in small talk, and
(28:28):
I hate to admit that because Iam really big on the power of
small talk, but I can get veryfocused on where I'm going next
in the conversation and I forgetto bring things to the
conversation.
I forget to be interesting.
I forget to ask the question,but in a business setting, I do
think that having.
That awareness allows me to showup and be authentic and present
(28:50):
in the moment because I'm notworried about what I'm not gonna
get accomplished.
Does that make sense?
I'm not worried that I'm gonnawalk away from that conversation
and not get my outcome takencare of.
I do get a chance to go offscript a little bit more, dive
in, and then say, oh, we neededto get back to just this one
more thing.
Or, I have this last question,or I did not get the answer that
(29:13):
we needed.
On, you know, whatever topic isstill remaining on the agenda.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (29:19):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:19):
pre thought.
That
teri-schmidt_1_09- (29:20):
pre-planning
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:21):
you the flexibility to go different
directions and shift if you needto.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (29:25):
because you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (29:27):
know, that you have in your mind what
the ultimate goal.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (29:30):
goal was, and you will ultimately get
back to that.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:32):
And I think a lot of that comes from
live TV and radio.
You know, we practice before weactually go on live tv.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (29:40):
Mm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:40):
Our back and forth in our banter
isn't scripted, but we have anidea of where we want it to go.
And here's what often happens.
We will rehearse the entirepre-game show and we'll have
this great banter back and forthand we'll all have our notes
written and we know where we'retrying to go.
And then real life and real TVhappens and.
Somebody says exactly what youwere gonna say right before you
(30:02):
said it, which is frustrating,and you're like, oh, you just
took the words right outta mymouth.
But if I know all the otherthings that I can bring up in
that conversation, I'm not gonnapanic, right?
Just because it didn't goexactly according to script
doesn't mean that it's nothelpful, means that I've still
got an entire sheet of stats topull from and talking points so
(30:23):
that it stays on track and wedon't go off the rails during a
live TV broadcast.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (30:29):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (30:29):
That's a great example because that is
such a high pressure situationand you have to, you know, in
the moment,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (30:36):
shift
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (30:37):
change where you're going.
So then, you know, if there's aleader out there
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (30:41):
out
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (30:41):
thinking about
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (30:42):
about
jen-mueller_1_09-0 (30:43):
conversation that they have coming up
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (30:45):
I
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (30:46):
I can't imagine how it would be
even higher pressure than
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (30:50):
than
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (30:51):
being online.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (30:51):
tv.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (30:52):
Well, it's a different type of
pressure.
Yes, yes.
And I think about questions bothways.
I think about the answer as apositive, and I think about the
question of what if they don'trespond well to this?
I think about, did I throwsomebody inadvertently under the
bus?
These interviews are takingplace in front of teammates and
coaches and fans and frontoffice people, right?
(31:14):
And so when you practice theconversation.
It's like the choose your ownadventure.
You can go back through andchoose the other adventure and
figure out, how would I saythis?
If some, if something happens,how do I not respond
defensively?
You know, again, what am Ireally trying to accomplish?
What are the words I can use?
How can I say this?
To keep things on track, even ifthis goes completely towards
(31:38):
left field, and I, I did notanticipate it doing that.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (31:42):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (31:45):
When you see either other
broadcasters,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (31:47):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (31:47):
and I obviously won't ask you to
name names, but
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (31:50):
either
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (31:51):
other people in your line of work or
leaders that you've had theopportunity.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (31:56):
to work with or to witness really
struggle with this
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (32:00):
idea of preparation, what?
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (32:04):
usually needs to shift in them in order
for them to do it effectively?
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (32:10):
Realizing how powerful small interactions
are.
I call them bubblegum moments.
So
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (32:17):
Hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (32:18):
our pitching coach for the Mariners
used to hand me a piece ofbubblegum before he walked onto
the field and walked towards thebullpen.
And it was kind of a littleinside joke for a couple of
years.
And I am either on TV or gettingready to go on tv.
And so I would put the bubblegum in my little makeup kit that
I only take on the sidelinesthat only has like three tubes
(32:39):
of lipstick and.
Hairspray and powder, right?
There's nothing in this bag, andI wouldn't think about that
bubble gum again until Icouldn't zip the bag up.
And as it turns out, one or twopieces of gum doesn't take up a
lot of room.
Him five, six, and seven piecesof gum mean that I can't zip
that bag again.
And I've joked with him over theyears because I'll talk about
(33:02):
that in corporate presentationsand I'll just tell him, look, it
it.
We have a hard time visualizingwhat a small action or
interaction does.
I know the power of one word,one question, and 15 seconds
because that's how we talk intv.
And so if we recognize asleaders that bubble gum effect,
(33:22):
that bubble gum moment, allyou're trying to do, here's
another sports analogy, is stackwins.
You can't do everything.
Can't be a home run.
Everything is not a touchdownpass.
It has to be about stackingwins.
So if I look at that and I getmore strategic about how I'm
going to get those wins, I knowfrom listening to hours of
(33:43):
myself talking and transcribinginterviews, I know when I didn't
prepare and I know when thatquestion led to an answer that
everybody else got.
I also know what happens when Itook time to prepare.
And I got a funny laugh outloud, genuine story that I had
never heard before because therewas a different type of space
(34:06):
created.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (34:07):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (34:07):
so I would encourage everybody to
think about the bubblegum andhow many different ways can you
figure out how to stack wins andto have those bubblegum moments
during the course of the day.
Mm-hmm.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (34:19):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (34:20):
That's interesting because you're
talking about the small moments
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (34:22):
about the small
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (34:23):
and immediately my brain went.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (34:25):
to, well, if it's a small moment, I
don't need to worry aboutpreparing very much.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (34:30):
No, that's, so I would say this in
broadcasting, networking happensjust a few seconds at a time and
seconds are how we measureconversations on tv.
We do not measure them inminutes.
You get 15 seconds, 30 seconds,45 seconds.
That's generally how we talk.
If you only get 15 seconds totell a story, you have to be
(34:51):
really, really choosy with yourwords, very concise and.
Telling your story in a veryspecific way in a locker room.
I don't get to go to happy hourwith these guys.
We don't eat lunch together.
There's no networking events.
They don't have the time, orquite honestly, the tolerance to
talk to me for 30 minutes at atime, which would be my
(35:13):
preference'cause that's how Ilike to relate to people in
general.
I get less than 60 seconds oftheir time.
I know the power of hello and Iknow the power of making sure
that.
Those few seconds count, becauseall of that is what leads to
authentic, honest conversationson game day following wins and
(35:34):
losses.
I have to be very dialed intothat conversation because I, I
don't, I don't get leeway oneither side of a cup of coffee,
'cause that's just not how we'reinteracting during the course of
the day.
Yeah.
And if I think
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (35:48):
of the parallel
jen-mueller_1_09-03 (35:50):
leadership, if you have done your research.
On your team
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (35:55):
on your
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (35:55):
member, meaning, you know, what makes
them,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (35:58):
tick, you know what
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (35:59):
you know what their strengths are,
you know about, you know, maybesomething outside of work.
You can create those smallmoments because you have done
that sort of collaboration andthe words that you choose make a
powerful difference.
So part of this, if I take thisconversation back to the tough
(36:20):
conversation and how we setexpectations.
The way we deliver praise notonly helps with tough
conversations, but it reallyadds value to your team.
These interactions don't have tobe long.
It doesn't mean that you need tohave one-on-ones every week.
If you're not already doingthat, maybe that is a valuable
(36:42):
piece to the puzzle that you'regonna implement, but just
handing out an accuratecompliment.
Can make all the difference inthe world.
So for example, I could tell youthat you did a great job, right?
And I hand out great jobs justlike kids going through the
handshake line after theirlittle league game, right?
Great job, great job, great job,great job.
(37:02):
But if I say, you really camethrough in the clutch, and I
appreciate that effort thatlands a little bit differently
to the person who really pridesthemselves on coming through
when they know that.
It is a situation they need totake care of.
High pressure in the clutch,recognizing somebody as being on
(37:25):
time deadline driven is accurateand would likely hit their
heart.
But more than saying great job.
And it's very important on theother side of that because when
I give accurate praise, it makesme.
It makes it easier for me togive accurate feedback as a
result.
So when you get to know yourteam, and you could even give
(37:46):
them a list of words, I'll dothis, put five words on the
page.
Ask them to rank those words inorder.
Those words could be clutch,astounding, superb.
Timely, right?
Awesome.
Doesn't really matter what thewords are.
Just get a wide range of wordsand ask your team to rank those
words in order of theirpreference.
(38:08):
You will find out a lot abouthow they receive praise and what
lands with them.
Change one word and how you talkabout their work and you change
everything about how they feelregarding the job that they did.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (38:23):
Hmm.
Interesting.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:25):
I've never thought about asking
people about different
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (38:28):
words
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:29):
that and think about how much.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (38:32):
much insight you would gain into them
just through that simpleactivity.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (38:37):
Thank you for that.
Yeah.
Well if there's someone outthere that is saying, you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (38:40):
saying, you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (38:41):
know, this sounds like a lot of work
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (38:42):
work, a
jen-mueller_1_09-0 (38:43):
preparation,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:45):
you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (38:45):
I.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (38:45):
have so much else on my plate,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (38:48):
Why is this perfect?
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:49):
it?
To invest the time andpreparation.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (38:53):
'cause ultimately you are gonna get
more done in less time.
I know this does not feel likeit's less time, but when you
start thinking strategically andwhen you start communicating
with intention, that's effectivecommunication.
We don't need morecommunication.
We don't need to say the samething.
You don't need to have a meetingabout the same topic for six
(39:14):
weeks before implementing.
Whatever that new strategy is,right.
When you take time at thebeginning, you're gonna get more
out of it.
You're also gonna build the teamthat you want around you so that
they can function withconfidence, so that they can
truly put their skills inposition to be valuable to you.
(39:35):
And once you start thinkingabout these things, whether it's
ETA or using that one word tocompliment, it really does
become second nature.
And it doesn't mean that everysingle conversation you have.
Is going to be executed likethis.
There are plenty of times I walkinto the coffee shop and I don't
have anything to say.
Right.
Like, it's just knowing thatthat tool is there for you and
(39:59):
that it, a, a small change canmake a big difference in your
level of communication.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (40:05):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (40:07):
Well, if there's
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (40:08):
there's
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (40:08):
leader that wants to practice
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (40:09):
this week, maybe wants
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (40:10):
start,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (40:11):
stacking wins,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (40:13):
and you know.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (40:14):
know, maybe not just
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (40:15):
A question
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (40:15):
a new type of question,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (40:16):
really stretching who they're as a
communicator, what's one waythey can start?
Oh gosh.
In addition to the ones that wealready have.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (40:26):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (40:27):
Okay.
I would say this, there's twothings.
Number one, ask a question youdon't know the answer to.
That is how you practicevulnerability and it's not gonna
feel comfortable, but if youpractice in small moments, it's
gonna make it easier when you'rein front of your entire team.
And the second one I would sayis use the question, how are you
(40:49):
to deliver a success statement?
So success statement goes beyondthe one word response.
How are you?
Is an open-ended question.
And most often, instead ofgiving a lengthy response, we
default to good.
Fine.
Great.
When we go one step further,we're gonna be able to connect
(41:13):
to our team and make thefollow-up questions easy and
obvious.
So when somebody from your team,or maybe you just practice this
with a barista at the coffeeshop, right?
How are you today?
I'm awesome.
My inbox is totally clean and myteam is on track for a big
deadline.
(41:34):
I've just shared with you acouple of things that I'm really
proud of.
My inbox is totally clean, whichby the way, if you have that, I
am so impressed with you becausethere are 300 emails in my
inbox, right?
That's a huge win.
Right.
You've gotten a chance to bragabout your team, and now I've
got two topics that I could askyou about to keep the
conversation going, and you'vejust given me insight into who
(41:55):
you are when you do this as aleader.
You're also giving your teampermission to do the same thing,
and they should be doing that.
They should be sharing wins.
They should be talking abouttheir family.
We shouldn't be waiting for thereal conversation to start after
that exchange.
That is the most pivotal momentin every single conversation.
(42:15):
We just overlook it.
So practice being strategic andintentional.
And by the way, you only needone, maybe two success
statements for the week.
You don't have to do this 60times.
I have a couple I know goinginto the week things that I want
to talk about that I knownobody's gonna ask me about
unless I bring up.
So now this is your chance topractice those conversation
(42:39):
skills, making it easy forpeople to ask questions to
connect with you, and we're justkind of bringing everything full
circle there with what it lookslike to communicate effectively.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (42:52):
Yeah, it's,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (42:53):
so simple and.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (42:54):
and, and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (42:54):
Something that a leader could try,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (42:56):
could try
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (42:57):
and then even if you aren't someone
who like
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (43:00):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (43:00):
to be on stage or
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:01):
or,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:01):
you know, have a spotlight on you,
you said one or two success
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (43:05):
statements and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:06):
you were able to speak them in a
matter of
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (43:08):
seconds.
But it
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (43:10):
So much to open up the conversation
as well as to give people
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (43:13):
insight into who you are as a person.
So
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (43:15):
I love that.
Yeah.
And use sports.
If it feels uncomfortable totalk about yourself, use sports.
I love the outcome of Sunday'sgame.
I loved watching my alma materwin on Saturday.
It's just as easy to start aconversation that way, as it is
to talk about work.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (43:33):
Very
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:34):
very true.
Well, thank you so much forthis, Jen.
If people wanna learn more aboutyou and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (43:39):
about you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:39):
the work.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (43:40):
that you do, where
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:41):
The best place
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:42):
for them
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:42):
go.
The website is talk sporty tome.com.
You can also find me on YouTubeand all the socials will get you
to me as well.
If you just search, talk Sportyto me.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (43:53):
Excellent.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (43:54):
Thank you again for
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (43:54):
your
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (43:55):
Thank you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:55):
you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:56):
for what you're doing
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:56):
are doing both in
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (43:58):
in the world of sports,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:59):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (44:00):
world of leadership and business to
help us all connect better and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (44:04):
be
jen-mueller_1_09-03- (44:05):
effective.
teri-schmidt_1_0 (44:06):
communicators.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (44:07):
it's been my pleasure, Terry.
Well, thanks again to Jen forjoining me for this
conversation, and thank you forlistening.
I hope her stories from thesidelines gave you a new
perspective on what it reallytakes to move beyond the
buzzword of effectivecommunication.
This week, I challenge you to godeeper by adding one more layer
(44:30):
of clarity to a request orexpectation that you share with
one of your team members.
Don't just ask for something tobe done.
Spell out what success lookslike when you need it, and why
it matters.
Have a great week and I willtalk to you again next
Wednesday.
What does it mean to really bean effective communicator?
We hear that phrase all thetime, but in this episode, we go
beneath the buzzwords with JenMueller, a veteran SportsLine
reporter for the SeattleSeahawks, longtime member of the
Seattle Mariners Broadcast Teamand founder of Talk Sporty to
me, with over 25 years ofexperience covering the
(00:23):
N-F-L-N-B-A-M-L-B-N-H-L andmore, Jen brings unique insights
from locker rooms whereconversations happen just
minutes after big wins orcrushing losses.
She shows us how sports culturenormalizes tough conversations
and what leaders can learn tobring that same clarity,
(00:45):
accountability, and trust totheir teams.
I'm Terry Schmidt, executive andleadership coach at Strong
Leaders Serve, where we partnerwith organizations to prepare
leaders for the everyday stretchmoments of leadership, the
promotion that makes old habitsobsolete, the reorg that shakes
trust, or the high stakesproject where influence matters
(01:08):
more than authority.
And this is the Strong LeadersServe podcast.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:06):
Well, hi
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (02:07):
Jen.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:07):
to the Strong Leader Serve Podcast.
I'm really looking forward to,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (02:10):
to our conversation
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:11):
oh, this is gonna be a fun one.
Terry.
I have been, I am this one for awhile on my calendar.
Well,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (02:17):
excellent, And I know you're usually
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (02:19):
usually on the other side
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (02:20):
side of the microphone
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:21):
so I'm
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (02:23):
to have you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:24):
that experience
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:25):
and that expertise.
And especially as we talk aboutwhat it means to be an effective
communicator.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:31):
But I'd love to start with your
story because even though thatis
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (02:36):
a
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:36):
you know, effective
teri-schmidt_1_09 (02:37):
communicator,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:38):
sound symbol, it could be actually
incredibly
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (02:42):
complex.
I
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (02:43):
you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (02:43):
you've
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:43):
25 years
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (02:45):
years in sports,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:46):
where communication
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:48):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (02:49):
pressure isn't
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (02:49):
isn't optional.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (02:51):
right.
So I'd love to hear.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (02:52):
about
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:53):
your journey and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (02:54):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (02:54):
of the things that you've learned
along the way.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (02:56):
way.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (02:57):
Well, as you mentioned, I've spent 25
years in sports broadcasting.
I've done both television andradio.
I have been behind the scenes asa producer and I have been in
front of the cameras and with amicrophone actually delivering
the stories and the post gameinterviews.
It's been a really fun ride.
First got into sportsbroadcasting.
(03:18):
You know, there weren't thatmany women who were doing this,
and so the advice we were given.
Was to just be quiet.
The advice we were given was tonot draw attention to ourselves
to make sure that nobody knewthat we were the woman in the
room.
And I gotta be honest, when youwalk into a locker room full of
men, it's pretty hard to figureout or hide the fact that you
(03:38):
were the only woman in there.
But I say that because, youknow, I think at the time it
was, it was well-intentionedadvice.
Nobody really knew what to do.
So what I was craving was theactual practical advice that
would help me do my job better.
Instead, I kept hearing, Hey,just put yourself in the corner
(03:58):
and try to not rock the boat.
'cause that's what's gonna beeasiest for everybody.
When we think about effectivecommunication, there's so many
things that we either keep.
Hidden intentionally orotherwise, or that we fail to
say that creates these hugebarriers and it's as simple as
not finishing the thought wehave in our head.
(04:21):
And I don't have the luxury ofdoing that because I don't get
to go back and ask for thatinterview a second or a third
time.
It has to be done right now ondeadline in a very short amount
of time.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (04:33):
Right.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (04:34):
Right.
I think about your experienceand I can't imagine because I,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:39):
I,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (04:40):
I watch a lot of hockey.
So I'm a Dallas Star fan, and I,I can't imagine going in those
locker rooms after a game six,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:47):
or a
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (04:47):
seven off in the playoffs, or, you
know, on the other side.
I, I can't imagine going
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:54):
in
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (04:54):
win.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (04:55):
Of course.
I'm sure that's a little bitmore fun, but.
Most
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (04:58):
Would
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (04:59):
avo
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (04:59):
those conversations that you think of
being
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (05:01):
equivalent
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (05:02):
the workplace.
Those are high emotions.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (05:05):
you're
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (05:06):
Probably think
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (05:07):
let's just
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (05:08):
that settle a little bit before we
have that conversation.
So hear about what about couragethat takes.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (05:16):
to walk into that discomfort
instead of away from it.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (05:20):
Well, there's a few things that I make
sure that I do personally beforeI walk into the room, and then
there's a few things that sportsactually does to make this
easier.
So from the sports point ofview, when you go to a hockey
game, every single person inthat arena knows what the
objective is.
The objective is to win thegame, and you are gonna do that
(05:43):
by scoring more goals than theother team, and that seems like
it is overly simplified andreally obvious.
But too often in business, weare not as clear as we need to
be on what that objective is,whether that is what high
performance looks like, whetherthat is what success looks like,
a deadline looks like.
There's all sorts of things thatwe assume people can either read
(06:06):
our mind or already on the samepage.
Sports doesn't do that.
Sports is very, very clear.
So when I already have theexpectation set that you are
going in to win the game, whenyou come up short.
Everybody knows there's gonna bea conversation about why you
came up short and what wentwrong in this whole process.
(06:26):
So sports takes care of thatpart.
There's the expectation alreadythat I'm gonna go in there.
When I do go in there, there's acouple of things I have to
remember.
Number one, they just wanna getit over with.
They already know what happened.
They already know how theyscrewed up, how they came up
short, how they failed toexecute on what they practiced
(06:47):
all week long, or what they'vepracticed for the last couple of
days.
They already know.
You cannot ease your way intothat conversation.
You don't have to beconfrontational, and you don't
have to be rude, but you do justneed to come out and say, what
happened on that power play?
What happened?
When you couldn't make the catchin the end zone, right.
(07:10):
Just tell me your side of thestory.
Okay?
And then number two, I need totake myself out of the equation.
There is a lot of emotion in alocker room after any outcome.
But it's not directed at me.
If I can just recognize thehuman being that's standing in
front of me and understand thatI know how it feels to
(07:32):
disappoint somebody, or to comeup short or to not perform the
way that I wanted to just sitand let them have that emotion,
which means their answer mightbe short, their answer might
seem abrupt to people listeningon the other side, it might
sound rude, but I already had awin because you chose to answer
my question.
(07:53):
So if you reframe what'sactually happening in that
moment and take your own ego andemotion out of it, now I can let
you have the space that you needwhile answering something that,
quite honestly, you probablydon't wanna talk about at the
end of your workday.
Yeah,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (08:10):
Yeah.
Yeah,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:12):
yeah.
There are two thread in therethat I'd love to dig into a
little bit further.
First, you talked about, youknow, your work has kind of done
for you in terms of theexpectations.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (08:20):
setting.
You either met it or you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (08:22):
And I think that is, you know, a
challenge at the beginning of adifficult conversation sometimes
for leaders if that expectationof having,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (08:31):
been set
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (08:32):
because then they don't have something
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (08:34):
to.
Cleanly
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:35):
back.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (08:36):
to.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (08:36):
And so that's almost a
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (08:38):
a
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:38):
whole other conversation or a whole
another part of thatconversation that they have
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (08:43):
to have on
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (08:44):
of this,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (08:46):
discomfort riddled
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (08:48):
Yeah, they have to have point because
someone need that performancethat they
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (08:52):
they didn't
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (08:53):
can Yeah.
Share clearly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so when we think about toughconversations, if we focus on
the fundamentals of effectivecommunication, those tough
conversations get easier.
So what I advise leaders to do,and actually everybody in every
interaction, use the ETAformula.
(09:14):
So that's what I started usingin locker rooms to make sure
that I got exactly what I neededfrom interviews.
And I know ETA normally standsfor estimated time of arrival.
It's very convenient.
So now every time you get intoyour car, you will think about
this as well.
But for me it stands forexpectation, timeline, and
action item.
So if I'm asking you for aninterview, I'm not just gonna
(09:36):
say, do you have time for aninterview today?
That's one way to ask thequestion would, which would be
the equivalent of a leadersaying, can you get this done?
Okay, now done.
There's a whole bunch ofdifferent ways we can define
done, and when I think aboutwhat we actually need to
communicate effectively, I haveto spell it out for you.
(09:58):
Expectation, timeline, andaction item.
When I'm asking for aninterview, do you have time to
answer two questions about thisweekend's matchup.
I can find you after practice.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (10:08):
Hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (10:09):
Everybody can be in agreement on what that
looks like.
And if you don't agree to anypart of that equation, we can
level set.
Oh, after practice today doesn'twork, but after practice
tomorrow does.
Great.
Now we've agreed to that.
If you don't show up for thatinterview, I've got a much
easier entry point back to say,Hey, what happened?
(10:29):
We agreed that this was gonnatake place and here's what was
gonna happen.
Same thing if we're talkingabout a business situation,
right?
Can you get the job done?
How about if we add some ETA ontop of this, right?
Can you pull all of thefinancials from Q1 and Q2 and
get those to me by four o'clockon Friday?
(10:52):
You're gonna say yes or no.
We are going to come intoagreement if four o'clock on
Friday comes and goes, and Ihave not gotten that from you.
Now I've got an easier way tocome back and say, okay, is
everything okay?
We agreed on this, what got inthe way, and now that
conversation is expected.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (11:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (11:13):
I'm curious because it,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (11:13):
because
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (11:14):
it seems simple
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (11:14):
seems
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (11:15):
and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:15):
and I'm
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:15):
sure
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (11:16):
you know, listeners have heard a lot
of people talk about needing to
jen-mueller_1_09- (11:20):
expectations.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (11:21):
when they're delegating.
In particular, what do you thinkgets in the
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (11:25):
What, what
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (11:26):
what
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (11:27):
leader from clearly defining their
expectations in that way.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (11:31):
in that way?
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (11:32):
I think we have a hard time
slowing down and being veryhonest and very clear of what we
want to get out of that, or whatwe want to do, you know?
We either assume that people canread our minds or that we're
going to get to the sameconclusion.
Sometimes you don't wanna feellike you're micromanaging or
(11:53):
nagging, but the reality isyou've gotta sit with it.
It probably takes you.
Longer than you want to send avery clear email, text, or Slack
message.
But that clarity allows peopleto move with confidence and
allows them to take the nextright steps.
And I think we need to sit withthings instead of just checking
(12:13):
it off the to-do list that Iturned it over to you now this
is your problem to solve and nowyou can go off and do this.
What do I need to get?
And in sports broadcasting, Iget one shot.
And I have to know exactly whatI'm gonna get out of those two
questions.
And so I need to sit with whatthat ask is before I ever bring
it up with an athlete.
(12:34):
Mm-hmm.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (12:34):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (12:36):
Yeah.
And I,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (12:37):
I don't
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (12:38):
I don't think that should be
different necessarily inleadership either that,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (12:41):
that,
jen-mueller_1_09-03- (12:42):
Rethinking that, sitting with it before the
actual encounter or the actualact.
Yeah.
And it changes everything aboutthe conversation.
It is everything from could youcall me when you get a chance to
let me know what you think to,you know, do you have time to
chat?
(13:02):
We think we're communicating andwhat we're actually doing is
creating a lot of drama andconfusion.
All anybody wants is to be ableto contribute, to have value,
and to know that they're doingsomething great for the team.
It doesn't matter if you're anathlete or if it is your team at
work and the clearer you canmake that by going one step
(13:24):
further, right?
Could you call me sometimebefore five o'clock?
I've got a few ideas I wanna runpast you on a new marketing
campaign, and I think you're theperson to ask.
That makes all the difference inhow that conversation is
received and the level ofcommunication that was had.
Yeah.
(13:44):
Yeah.
And I, I love what I've heardhere too about, I think you're
the person to ask, you are, youare showing them
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (13:50):
them
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (13:51):
they matter,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (13:51):
matter, that they're needed.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (13:53):
You're also injecting a little bit of
the y so,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (13:56):
There
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (13:57):
that they
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (13:58):
they
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (13:58):
have that meaning behind their.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:00):
their work.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (14:00):
Further
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:01):
can further
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (14:01):
found upon that as you comment, but
even just in that
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:05):
short
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (14:06):
of sentence,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:07):
you gave, you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:10):
gave some clarity around what was
going to be asked.
Kind of why, why it matters thenyou're able to build on that
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (14:18):
that
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (14:19):
the conversation first.
Yep, yep.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:22):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (14:22):
That's great.
That's great.
Well, one thing that I heardfrom you talk about
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (14:26):
is open-ended questions and in
particular in negotiations.
Mean you said that they're
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (14:32):
Always
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (14:33):
always helpful.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (14:34):
So open-ended questions aren't
always helpful.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (14:36):
in negotiations.
Can
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (14:38):
Tell me more about that.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (14:39):
that?
I'm curious.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (14:41):
I consider every interaction that
I have with an athlete, anegotiation.
None of them have to talk to me.
I am always trying to convincethem as to why they should talk
to me right now about a certainsubject.
And here is what I have learnedin all of the hundreds of
thousands of interviews andpeople that I've talked to.
The answer is what the answerwas always going to be.
(15:03):
Now if you are talking about I'mnegotiating for one extra
vacation day, or I'm looking forthis much more revenue for this
outcome, yeah, there's somewiggle room there, but.
In general, the answer is what?
The answer is.
You could go and ask for araise.
If that raise is 25% of what youare already making and that just
(15:25):
isn't gonna work based on thepool of money to be divvied up.
It does not matter how many waysyou ask the question or state
your case and try to make thisvery fluffy.
So here's what we need to do.
Just ask the real question.
And it's okay to ask a yes noquestion because sometimes the
answer is.
(15:45):
Yes or no?
Was this within the scope ofwork that you were looking at
Now?
I hope that the answer is yes,right?
Because if I want you to hireme, I hope the answer is yes,
but 14 paragraphs and a wholebunch of questions in an email
does not change whether it fitsinto your budget or not, or
(16:06):
whether it's the scope of work.
So stop with the extra and don'tbe afraid of how that
conversation is gonna play out.
It.
Just ask the question becausethe clarity right there is more
valuable than anything else.
And now you can come back with,would you like me to resubmit
the proposal, or would you likeme to circle back around in six
(16:30):
months when this might be abetter option for you?
Right?
Don't be afraid of what theoutcome is.
It's not about you.
'cause the answer was what?
The answer was always going tobe.
Mm-hmm.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (16:42):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (16:44):
Yeah.
And that, that gets back to
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (16:45):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:46):
what you were talking about, that the
emotion in the locker room isn'tdirected to you.
I think when you just said, youknow,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (16:53):
it's,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (16:53):
not about you,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (16:54):
you.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:54):
your wife, what gonna be,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:56):
be.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:57):
What
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (16:57):
What
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:58):
that the main
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (16:59):
obstacle
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (16:59):
when you're working with leaders,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (17:01):
you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (17:01):
speaking
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (17:02):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (17:02):
being able to get through that
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (17:05):
question
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (17:06):
directly
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (17:07):
you know,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (17:08):
or.
Is it
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (17:09):
is
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (17:09):
something else that,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (17:11):
keeps them from doing
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (17:12):
well, again, it's a lot of fear, like
the internal fear of how thatplays out or how that feels on
the other side of theconversation.
I think the other part of thisis we count on conversational
norms and conventional wisdom,and we count on somebody else to
carry the other part of theconversation.
(17:33):
You know, a lot of times when Iam talking to folks about
open-ended questions andclosed-ended questions, you
know, I, I'm, I am thinkingabout it from the broadcasting
standpoint.
My post-game interviews aregenerally three questions.
I don't have time to ease intothat conversation.
Every question has a veryspecific answer, and
(17:55):
conventional wisdom would tellyou that all open-ended
questions are good because itgets people talking, and most of
the time people will answer yourquestion because that is our
conversational norm.
It doesn't mean it's the rightanswer.
It doesn't mean it's a goodanswer.
It doesn't mean that it's theanswer that gets you closer.
We have this illusion that weare communicating and talking to
(18:17):
each other, but we really didn'tknow what we wanted to get out
of the question in the firstplace.
We really didn't know how it wasgonna further the conversation.
We really didn't know whatdirection we were gonna take
because we didn't think throughthe entire conversation, which
is not to say that I'm trying toput words into somebody's mouth,
but if I ask you an open-endedquestion.
(18:39):
There is a fear on the otherside that you don't wanna
disappoint me and you don't knowwhat the right answer is and the
easier I can make that answer.
So I always go into a post-gameinterview thinking the answer
should be easy and obvious.
Not that they wanna talk aboutthe error or you know, what
happened on the power play, butthey know there's only one
(19:00):
answer to that question and theyhave full confidence.
They can give the answer whetheranybody likes that answer or
not.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (19:09):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (19:12):
Yeah.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:12):
The,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (19:13):
I love that the answer should be
easy and obvious when you'reasking that question.
And I think what I'm hearingthere too, getting back to what
we were talking about, about thepreparation necessary
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (19:24):
before
jen-mueller_1_09- (19:25):
communication is that you are being
intentional.
With
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:30):
With
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (19:31):
question that you're asking, with every
conversation that you're goingin, of course we're working with
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:37):
with
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (19:37):
a human, human interaction, so it
may not play out
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (19:40):
directly according
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (19:41):
secret, but at least you have a goal
going in and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (19:47):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (19:48):
you thought about what their goal
might be and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (19:50):
be
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (19:50):
how they might.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (19:51):
they might respond.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (19:52):
Yeah, and you don't have to know what
the answer is, but you do knowwhat it feels like when you need
to make a decision, right?
You know what you wouldappreciate in the decision
making process.
It's an easy and obviousdecision, right?
Whether it's, no, I can't giveyou 25% is your raise this year.
I can however give you 5% andhere's how we can help work
(20:16):
towards the next part, right?
It just, it's removingconfusion.
It is being kind.
It is being easy to talk tobecause when you are easy to
talk to people, probably will,and that is half the battle of
relationship building.
That is half the battle ofleadership and trust.
If people are afraid to talk toyou for their own insecurities
or just kind of how awkward thatis, or the fear that exists,
(20:39):
it's hard to be an effectiveleader if people don't feel
comfortable having aconversation.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (20:45):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And if they have that stabilityand that confidence that they
know what they're gonna get whenthey're talking to you,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (20:52):
That makes
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (20:53):
it even easier
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (20:54):
come
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (20:55):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (20:55):
with the tough topics, the tough
conversations.
Yeah.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (21:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (21:01):
Well,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (21:03):
what
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (21:03):
you touched on this a little bit,
but I just wanna dig in a littlebit deeper about thoughtful
questions and how they can buildtrust.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (21:11):
and uncover hidden needs.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (21:13):
What does that look like in
teri-schmidt_1_09-03- (21:14):
practice,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (21:15):
So from your experience on the
sidelines or maybe working withleader in the workplace?
So it probably means using thefirst question that comes to
mind as the starting point, butprobably developing that one,
one or two times past.
Where you were gonna go, right?
(21:37):
So here's an example from thesidelines.
If you were a sports fan, youhear this one all the time,
there's a big win, and thereporter will ask, how did it
feel?
And I can tell you, because Ihave covered both a Super Bowl
win and a crushing Super Bowlloss, the answer to that
question.
(21:58):
Is pretty self-explanatory,right?
How do you think it feels to winthe Super Bowl?
It feels awesome.
What?
What answer were you possiblygonna get that was
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (22:06):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (22:06):
genuine, real, and authentic Flip side.
How does it feel to lose a SuperBowl?
It's the worst crushing feelingyou could possibly imagine as a
professional, right?
If I really want you to talkabout the feeling of
celebration.
I need to go one or two stepspast that.
So if we're gonna talk aboutcelebration, my question might
(22:28):
end up to be, because look,everybody likes the feeling of
celebrating, right?
Who's the first person you'regonna call to celebrate this win
with?
And now I've got morestorytelling involved in it
because now you're gonna tell meabout your parent, your spouse,
your sibling, your former coachwho helped get you to this
point.
And now this is a sharedexperience because we all have
(22:49):
the person that we would callwith good news, right?
It also might be how long areyou gonna give yourself to
celebrate this win?
Now I'm talking about the factthat I can't get to see my
family until the middle of theweek, or they're all flying
there.
There's a story there, right?
And so I am looking to go onestep further to make that
(23:12):
connection so that you wereforced to tell me a story, even
if it sounds like it is a closedquestion, right?
So if we ask the question, howdoes it feel?
That is an open-ended question.
I could give any number ofanswers to that question.
(23:32):
You're probably gonna get thesame answer over and over and
over again because nobody wantsto, right?
Give the wrong answer, you know,go outside the line, talk too
much about themselves, talk toomuch about the win rate.
If I just set up a space whereyou know what the answer is,
I've added value to theconversation.
I've also built trust andrapport because now they can
(23:54):
relax and know.
I've got you in this, right?
It was thoughtful.
I knew exactly what I was tryingto accomplish, and you and I
just made a connection in just afew seconds.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
What a great, excuse me, what agreat example.
How would that translate to thework today?
(24:15):
Yeah, so I think really it'sjust about any number of things.
Anytime you think about theopen-ended question.
Think about what you wereactually trying to get out of
it.
So let's go to feedback, right?
Could you let me know what youthink about this?
Or what do you think about this?
(24:36):
How many times do we just askfor that?
Right?
It's the end of an email ormaybe it's the end of a meeting,
right?
Does anybody have anything toadd?
Okay.
How many times do people justreadily raise their hand and
stay on topic while talkingabout the thing that they want
to add?
Right.
There's a lot of differentthings that I could add, but
(24:57):
let's narrow this down and let'sbe really thoughtful about it.
Does anybody have anything toadd related to the timeline of
the new marketing idea based ontheir experience within this
group?
That is a very differentquestion, and that focuses the
conversation right where we needit to go if we're going to ask.
(25:21):
What are your thoughts on this?
It's going to be very difficultto get actionable feedback
because I didn't make this easyand obvious.
Here's where yes, no questionsreally come into play.
What do you think about the fontsize and the information I used
in the PowerPoint?
Those are the two things I'mlooking for feedback on, and
(25:43):
those are pretty easy.
You either like them or youdon't like them, and now I know
if I need to.
Change them.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (25:49):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (25:50):
if that's not the issue, then
you're gonna tell me what it is.
Right.
Narrow that focus, you'll get amore effective answer and you're
probably gonna get a quickerresponse to.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (26:00):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (26:02):
Yeah.
And that goes in with a lot oftimes I will talk to leaders
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (26:06):
leaders
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:07):
have
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (26:07):
asked their
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (26:08):
for feedback and they're, you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:09):
and they're just,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (26:09):
know, frustrated because they're not
getting
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:11):
any
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (26:11):
feedback and you have two things that
work there.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:14):
You have the power differential
first,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (26:16):
But then it's also, it wasn't
specific.
The
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:19):
The
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (26:20):
wasn't.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (26:20):
easy as you had said.
So
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:23):
what we talk about
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:24):
is.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (26:25):
something working on this?
Yeah,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (26:27):
as a leader, and can you say,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (26:30):
I'm working on this.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (26:31):
this.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (26:32):
Yeah.
How did I do in this meetingwith particular skills?
Yes.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (26:37):
example?
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (26:38):
Yes, and you can use what we would
think about as non-traditionalquestions to get feedback.
We do it all the time.
So you could have folks rankthings in order of importance or
based on how you did it.
I'm working on clarity in mymessaging, respecting
everybody's time and gettingeverybody involved.
(26:58):
Could you rank.
Which one I did best at, second,best at, and third best at.
Right?
If that, if we're still tryingto get over some of the, the
power differential andencouraging people to give
feedback, because again, we needto make this safe for people.
If you want real feedback, weneed to show them that the,
these answers are okay.
(27:19):
And it's okay to say that Iwasn't very good at respecting
people's time today.
Okay.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (27:23):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (27:24):
the feedback that I need.
Right?
On a scale of one to 10, how didI do with each one of those
things?
Anything is possible on that.
Right.
But it, the minute I putparameters around this, it's so
much easier to get the answersthat you really need.
Definitely.
Have you had an experience wherebeing so planned out and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (27:47):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (27:47):
directed.
Knowing what you were going forhas in a sense not put blinders
on the conversation, but perhapskept you from surfacing some
information or stories thatmight have come.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (28:02):
with a more open-ended
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (28:04):
Here's how I look at preparing for
conversations, and I'll tellpeople this, whether you're
giving presentations or you'rewriting out questions for a
podcast.
When you know what you're tryingto accomplish, it's so much
easier to go off script.
Because I know how to get rightback on script.
I would say where trips me upmost often is in small talk, and
(28:28):
I hate to admit that because Iam really big on the power of
small talk, but I can get veryfocused on where I'm going next
in the conversation and I forgetto bring things to the
conversation.
I forget to be interesting.
I forget to ask the question,but in a business setting, I do
think that having.
That awareness allows me to showup and be authentic and present
(28:50):
in the moment because I'm notworried about what I'm not gonna
get accomplished.
Does that make sense?
I'm not worried that I'm gonnawalk away from that conversation
and not get my outcome takencare of.
I do get a chance to go offscript a little bit more, dive
in, and then say, oh, we neededto get back to just this one
more thing.
Or, I have this last question,or I did not get the answer that
(29:13):
we needed.
On, you know, whatever topic isstill remaining on the agenda.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (29:19):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:19):
pre thought.
That
teri-schmidt_1_09- (29:20):
pre-planning
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:21):
you the flexibility to go different
directions and shift if you needto.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (29:25):
because you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (29:27):
know, that you have in your mind what
the ultimate goal.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (29:30):
goal was, and you will ultimately get
back to that.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:32):
And I think a lot of that comes from
live TV and radio.
You know, we practice before weactually go on live tv.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (29:40):
Mm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (29:40):
Our back and forth in our banter
isn't scripted, but we have anidea of where we want it to go.
And here's what often happens.
We will rehearse the entirepre-game show and we'll have
this great banter back and forthand we'll all have our notes
written and we know where we'retrying to go.
And then real life and real TVhappens and.
Somebody says exactly what youwere gonna say right before you
(30:02):
said it, which is frustrating,and you're like, oh, you just
took the words right outta mymouth.
But if I know all the otherthings that I can bring up in
that conversation, I'm not gonnapanic, right?
Just because it didn't goexactly according to script
doesn't mean that it's nothelpful, means that I've still
got an entire sheet of stats topull from and talking points so
(30:23):
that it stays on track and wedon't go off the rails during a
live TV broadcast.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (30:29):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (30:29):
That's a great example because that is
such a high pressure situationand you have to, you know, in
the moment,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (30:36):
shift
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (30:37):
change where you're going.
So then, you know, if there's aleader out there
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (30:41):
out
jen-mueller_1_09-03-20 (30:41):
thinking about
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (30:42):
about
jen-mueller_1_09-0 (30:43):
conversation that they have coming up
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (30:45):
I
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (30:46):
I can't imagine how it would be
even higher pressure than
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (30:50):
than
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (30:51):
being online.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (30:51):
tv.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (30:52):
Well, it's a different type of
pressure.
Yes, yes.
And I think about questions bothways.
I think about the answer as apositive, and I think about the
question of what if they don'trespond well to this?
I think about, did I throwsomebody inadvertently under the
bus?
These interviews are takingplace in front of teammates and
coaches and fans and frontoffice people, right?
(31:14):
And so when you practice theconversation.
It's like the choose your ownadventure.
You can go back through andchoose the other adventure and
figure out, how would I saythis?
If some, if something happens,how do I not respond
defensively?
You know, again, what am Ireally trying to accomplish?
What are the words I can use?
How can I say this?
To keep things on track, even ifthis goes completely towards
(31:38):
left field, and I, I did notanticipate it doing that.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (31:42):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (31:45):
When you see either other
broadcasters,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (31:47):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (31:47):
and I obviously won't ask you to
name names, but
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-202 (31:50):
either
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (31:51):
other people in your line of work or
leaders that you've had theopportunity.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (31:56):
to work with or to witness really
struggle with this
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (32:00):
idea of preparation, what?
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (32:04):
usually needs to shift in them in order
for them to do it effectively?
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (32:10):
Realizing how powerful small interactions
are.
I call them bubblegum moments.
So
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (32:17):
Hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (32:18):
our pitching coach for the Mariners
used to hand me a piece ofbubblegum before he walked onto
the field and walked towards thebullpen.
And it was kind of a littleinside joke for a couple of
years.
And I am either on TV or gettingready to go on tv.
And so I would put the bubblegum in my little makeup kit that
I only take on the sidelinesthat only has like three tubes
(32:39):
of lipstick and.
Hairspray and powder, right?
There's nothing in this bag, andI wouldn't think about that
bubble gum again until Icouldn't zip the bag up.
And as it turns out, one or twopieces of gum doesn't take up a
lot of room.
Him five, six, and seven piecesof gum mean that I can't zip
that bag again.
And I've joked with him over theyears because I'll talk about
(33:02):
that in corporate presentationsand I'll just tell him, look, it
it.
We have a hard time visualizingwhat a small action or
interaction does.
I know the power of one word,one question, and 15 seconds
because that's how we talk intv.
And so if we recognize asleaders that bubble gum effect,
(33:22):
that bubble gum moment, allyou're trying to do, here's
another sports analogy, is stackwins.
You can't do everything.
Can't be a home run.
Everything is not a touchdownpass.
It has to be about stackingwins.
So if I look at that and I getmore strategic about how I'm
going to get those wins, I knowfrom listening to hours of
(33:43):
myself talking and transcribinginterviews, I know when I didn't
prepare and I know when thatquestion led to an answer that
everybody else got.
I also know what happens when Itook time to prepare.
And I got a funny laugh outloud, genuine story that I had
never heard before because therewas a different type of space
(34:06):
created.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (34:07):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (34:07):
so I would encourage everybody to
think about the bubblegum andhow many different ways can you
figure out how to stack wins andto have those bubblegum moments
during the course of the day.
Mm-hmm.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (34:19):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (34:20):
That's interesting because you're
talking about the small moments
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (34:22):
about the small
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (34:23):
and immediately my brain went.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (34:25):
to, well, if it's a small moment, I
don't need to worry aboutpreparing very much.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (34:30):
No, that's, so I would say this in
broadcasting, networking happensjust a few seconds at a time and
seconds are how we measureconversations on tv.
We do not measure them inminutes.
You get 15 seconds, 30 seconds,45 seconds.
That's generally how we talk.
If you only get 15 seconds totell a story, you have to be
(34:51):
really, really choosy with yourwords, very concise and.
Telling your story in a veryspecific way in a locker room.
I don't get to go to happy hourwith these guys.
We don't eat lunch together.
There's no networking events.
They don't have the time, orquite honestly, the tolerance to
talk to me for 30 minutes at atime, which would be my
(35:13):
preference'cause that's how Ilike to relate to people in
general.
I get less than 60 seconds oftheir time.
I know the power of hello and Iknow the power of making sure
that.
Those few seconds count, becauseall of that is what leads to
authentic, honest conversationson game day following wins and
(35:34):
losses.
I have to be very dialed intothat conversation because I, I
don't, I don't get leeway oneither side of a cup of coffee,
'cause that's just not how we'reinteracting during the course of
the day.
Yeah.
And if I think
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (35:48):
of the parallel
jen-mueller_1_09-03 (35:50):
leadership, if you have done your research.
On your team
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (35:55):
on your
jen-mueller_1_09-03-202 (35:55):
member, meaning, you know, what makes
them,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (35:58):
tick, you know what
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (35:59):
you know what their strengths are,
you know about, you know, maybesomething outside of work.
You can create those smallmoments because you have done
that sort of collaboration andthe words that you choose make a
powerful difference.
So part of this, if I take thisconversation back to the tough
(36:20):
conversation and how we setexpectations.
The way we deliver praise notonly helps with tough
conversations, but it reallyadds value to your team.
These interactions don't have tobe long.
It doesn't mean that you need tohave one-on-ones every week.
If you're not already doingthat, maybe that is a valuable
(36:42):
piece to the puzzle that you'regonna implement, but just
handing out an accuratecompliment.
Can make all the difference inthe world.
So for example, I could tell youthat you did a great job, right?
And I hand out great jobs justlike kids going through the
handshake line after theirlittle league game, right?
Great job, great job, great job,great job.
(37:02):
But if I say, you really camethrough in the clutch, and I
appreciate that effort thatlands a little bit differently
to the person who really pridesthemselves on coming through
when they know that.
It is a situation they need totake care of.
High pressure in the clutch,recognizing somebody as being on
(37:25):
time deadline driven is accurateand would likely hit their
heart.
But more than saying great job.
And it's very important on theother side of that because when
I give accurate praise, it makesme.
It makes it easier for me togive accurate feedback as a
result.
So when you get to know yourteam, and you could even give
(37:46):
them a list of words, I'll dothis, put five words on the
page.
Ask them to rank those words inorder.
Those words could be clutch,astounding, superb.
Timely, right?
Awesome.
Doesn't really matter what thewords are.
Just get a wide range of wordsand ask your team to rank those
words in order of theirpreference.
(38:08):
You will find out a lot abouthow they receive praise and what
lands with them.
Change one word and how you talkabout their work and you change
everything about how they feelregarding the job that they did.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (38:23):
Hmm.
Interesting.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:25):
I've never thought about asking
people about different
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (38:28):
words
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:29):
that and think about how much.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (38:32):
much insight you would gain into them
just through that simpleactivity.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (38:37):
Thank you for that.
Yeah.
Well if there's someone outthere that is saying, you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (38:40):
saying, you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (38:41):
know, this sounds like a lot of work
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (38:42):
work, a
jen-mueller_1_09-0 (38:43):
preparation,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:45):
you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (38:45):
I.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (38:45):
have so much else on my plate,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (38:48):
Why is this perfect?
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (38:49):
it?
To invest the time andpreparation.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (38:53):
'cause ultimately you are gonna get
more done in less time.
I know this does not feel likeit's less time, but when you
start thinking strategically andwhen you start communicating
with intention, that's effectivecommunication.
We don't need morecommunication.
We don't need to say the samething.
You don't need to have a meetingabout the same topic for six
(39:14):
weeks before implementing.
Whatever that new strategy is,right.
When you take time at thebeginning, you're gonna get more
out of it.
You're also gonna build the teamthat you want around you so that
they can function withconfidence, so that they can
truly put their skills inposition to be valuable to you.
(39:35):
And once you start thinkingabout these things, whether it's
ETA or using that one word tocompliment, it really does
become second nature.
And it doesn't mean that everysingle conversation you have.
Is going to be executed likethis.
There are plenty of times I walkinto the coffee shop and I don't
have anything to say.
Right.
Like, it's just knowing thatthat tool is there for you and
(39:59):
that it, a, a small change canmake a big difference in your
level of communication.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (40:05):
Yeah.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (40:07):
Well, if there's
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (40:08):
there's
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (40:08):
leader that wants to practice
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (40:09):
this week, maybe wants
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (40:10):
start,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (40:11):
stacking wins,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (40:13):
and you know.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (40:14):
know, maybe not just
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (40:15):
A question
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_123 (40:15):
a new type of question,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025 (40:16):
really stretching who they're as a
communicator, what's one waythey can start?
Oh gosh.
In addition to the ones that wealready have.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (40:26):
Mm-hmm.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (40:27):
Okay.
I would say this, there's twothings.
Number one, ask a question youdon't know the answer to.
That is how you practicevulnerability and it's not gonna
feel comfortable, but if youpractice in small moments, it's
gonna make it easier when you'rein front of your entire team.
And the second one I would sayis use the question, how are you
(40:49):
to deliver a success statement?
So success statement goes beyondthe one word response.
How are you?
Is an open-ended question.
And most often, instead ofgiving a lengthy response, we
default to good.
Fine.
Great.
When we go one step further,we're gonna be able to connect
(41:13):
to our team and make thefollow-up questions easy and
obvious.
So when somebody from your team,or maybe you just practice this
with a barista at the coffeeshop, right?
How are you today?
I'm awesome.
My inbox is totally clean and myteam is on track for a big
deadline.
(41:34):
I've just shared with you acouple of things that I'm really
proud of.
My inbox is totally clean, whichby the way, if you have that, I
am so impressed with you becausethere are 300 emails in my
inbox, right?
That's a huge win.
Right.
You've gotten a chance to bragabout your team, and now I've
got two topics that I could askyou about to keep the
conversation going, and you'vejust given me insight into who
(41:55):
you are when you do this as aleader.
You're also giving your teampermission to do the same thing,
and they should be doing that.
They should be sharing wins.
They should be talking abouttheir family.
We shouldn't be waiting for thereal conversation to start after
that exchange.
That is the most pivotal momentin every single conversation.
(42:15):
We just overlook it.
So practice being strategic andintentional.
And by the way, you only needone, maybe two success
statements for the week.
You don't have to do this 60times.
I have a couple I know goinginto the week things that I want
to talk about that I knownobody's gonna ask me about
unless I bring up.
So now this is your chance topractice those conversation
(42:39):
skills, making it easy forpeople to ask questions to
connect with you, and we're justkind of bringing everything full
circle there with what it lookslike to communicate effectively.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (42:52):
Yeah, it's,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (42:53):
so simple and.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (42:54):
and, and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2 (42:54):
Something that a leader could try,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (42:56):
could try
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (42:57):
and then even if you aren't someone
who like
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (43:00):
to
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (43:00):
to be on stage or
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:01):
or,
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:01):
you know, have a spotlight on you,
you said one or two success
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (43:05):
statements and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:06):
you were able to speak them in a
matter of
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2 (43:08):
seconds.
But it
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (43:10):
So much to open up the conversation
as well as to give people
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-20 (43:13):
insight into who you are as a person.
So
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1032 (43:15):
I love that.
Yeah.
And use sports.
If it feels uncomfortable totalk about yourself, use sports.
I love the outcome of Sunday'sgame.
I loved watching my alma materwin on Saturday.
It's just as easy to start aconversation that way, as it is
to talk about work.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (43:33):
Very
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:34):
very true.
Well, thank you so much forthis, Jen.
If people wanna learn more aboutyou and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025 (43:39):
about you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:39):
the work.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (43:40):
that you do, where
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:41):
The best place
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:42):
for them
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:42):
go.
The website is talk sporty tome.com.
You can also find me on YouTubeand all the socials will get you
to me as well.
If you just search, talk Sportyto me.
teri-schmidt_1_09-03 (43:53):
Excellent.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (43:54):
Thank you again for
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_ (43:54):
your
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (43:55):
Thank you
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:55):
you
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_10 (43:56):
for what you're doing
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:56):
are doing both in
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_103 (43:58):
in the world of sports,
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_1 (43:59):
and
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_ (44:00):
world of leadership and business to
help us all connect better and
teri-schmidt_1_09-03-2025_12 (44:04):
be
jen-mueller_1_09-03- (44:05):
effective.
teri-schmidt_1_0 (44:06):
communicators.
jen-mueller_1_09-03-2025_1 (44:07):
it's been my pleasure, Terry.
Well, thanks again to Jen forjoining me for this
conversation, and thank you forlistening.
I hope her stories from thesidelines gave you a new
perspective on what it reallytakes to move beyond the
buzzword of effectivecommunication.
This week, I challenge you to godeeper by adding one more layer
(44:30):
of clarity to a request orexpectation that you share with
one of your team members.
Don't just ask for something tobe done.
Spell out what success lookslike when you need it, and why
it matters.
Have a great week and I willtalk to you again next
Wednesday.
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