Healing Veterans Through the Art of Fly Fishing | Lt. Col. John "Saint" Langford - Stronger Weekly

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
If you're standing in one of therivers we have here in Colorado
or somewhere else and you're with your buddies, you know,
brothers and sisters, you're allgiving each other crap because
that's still the military, you know, SOP, we're all part of the
same community. And so, but I think when you're
out there fishing and just that the camaraderie that we build
this, I call it continuity of community and that keeps you

(00:23):
from that point of being isolated to the point that you
want to take your own life. Like that's really what we're
here for, is to build resiliencebecause of the community and
because you know, somebody caresabout you and you care about
them. That's part of that whole tribe
as well. Well, hey everybody, welcome to

(01:00):
running Free. I'm your.
Host Jesse Carajat. I am super excited about this
particular conversation, which came about somewhat
serendipitously. I'm here with retired Lieutenant
Colonel John. Saint Langford, CEO of Project.
Healing Waters, how you doing? Jesse, good.
Good to see you this morning, neighbor.
Yeah. I good to see you.

(01:21):
You live about a quarter of a mile from me.
Yep. And I could have just walked
down there with all my gear and just been sitting next to you
so. If you had a studio in your
house, which you obviously do, we could have made that happen,
but we might have to walk acrosswool and and shorten the
interview. I, I want to talk a lot about
the amazing work you're doing now with Healing Waters.

(01:42):
But before I do, would you mind just kind of walking me through
your, your, your journey, your military service journey?
And then we'll transition to your focus now in the nonprofit.
World yeah, that's great and I appreciate the opportunity so we
just said like always wanted to be a Marine.
I think I was not so sure on what the path to get there would

(02:04):
be. I just assumed that I would find
myself, you know, in a Marine Corps unit in uniform someday.
And so this is a shout out to all the young men who go to
college with very little discipline.
So I was, yeah, same, a couple friends who were in the same
boat as me. But I excelled academically in

(02:26):
high school. I loved high school, played
hockey and lacrosse and, you know, all those things and, and
just really enjoyed it. And so I think it, I think the
academics probably came a littletoo easy for me.
So I got to college. I went to upstate New York and
you know, that's all self-discipline, getting up,
going to class. I was skiing and playing hockey

(02:49):
and lacrosse more than I was attending school.
So the State University of New York at Plattsburgh said, thank
you and please don't come back. So that was, that was a bit of
a, a shock to the ego and just confidence and everything else.
And I was like, OK, I've got to get my collective stuff
together. And so I enlisted in 86 in the

(03:13):
reserves just to get some discipline outside of I think
one of the things, the beauty ofgoing into the military, any
branch of service is you are especially for those young kids
that enlist right out of high school, you're accountable to
somebody other than your your parents.
And whether you have one, you know, living with your mom,

(03:33):
living with your dad, living with both, whatever, but there's
an accountability culture that'screated the second you step like
for guys like us on the yellow footprints at or San Diego.
So tremendous experience for me.I needed my butt kicked and came
back and it just was able to finish my degree going through

(03:53):
the reserves. I was in a an old F4 phantom
squadron when I was enlisted, which was awesome because that's
an amazing airplane. So I, I was commissioned as a
second Lieutenant in March of 1990.
And then all Marine officers go to, it's called the basic school
and my Army friends joke about, wow, that's as dumb a name

(04:16):
basic. I'm like, well, that's, it's
very effective. It's TBF.
So and so that's six months. I, I think the Marine Corps does
a great job of, of shaping youngofficers, especially those who
are going to step in front of, of young enlisted Marines and
staff and CE OS to get six months to sort of gel as an

(04:37):
officer. Learn some, you know, all the
troop leading steps, learn aboutbeing infantry because every
Marine's a Rifleman so that you can be a little more confident
when you step in front of again,especially those young second
Lieutenant infantry platoon commanders who have a a salty
staff Sergeant, you know, saying, all right, Lieutenant,

(04:59):
you know, don't say anything anddo what I.
Said right. And your staff Sergeant could
be, you know, have eight years in and be 30 years old and
you're 2324. And and you're.
Expected to lead. I I think like just to double
click on that when you say it, it's one thing, but just to
picture yourself being, you know, college graduate, basic

(05:19):
school, and then you're standingthere in front of a bunch of
men. Some of them you're senior and
you are expected to lead and make decisions and they're
supposed to follow it. So you're partly building trust,
you're building relationships and they're all looking at you
as though, what is what does this guy know?
Right? That's a lot of pressure.
Yeah, and I, I, I think again, the ones who do it really well

(05:42):
and the majority do, I mean, I, some of my really good friends
were infantry officers. And the most important thing is
to be authentic and to be genuine about establishing your
authority, because obviously in the military it's a hierarchical
relationship and the, the officer in charge is in charge.

(06:07):
But to also be humble enough to go.
Hey, Jess, this is a new, this is a new exercise for me.
And I've, I've studied all the books.
You guys have the experience andI'm really looking to you to
help me learn this because we'redoing this together.
But I am in charge, you know, and, and I think you establish
respect and people will test it.Obviously, you know, some, some

(06:30):
of the saltiest humans on the Marine Corps is a Lance Corporal
young E3, you know, who used to be a corporal And you know,
they're all good kids. They come from all walks of
life. And I think I'm certain, again,
in that infantry platoon situation, those platoon leaders
who were able to shape their unit into a cohesive cooperative

(06:56):
lethal unit, what a tremendous amount of satisfaction that that
must be, You know, for a guy like me who I ended up getting
selected to become a naval flight officer or go to naval
flight officer school. So Navy and Marine Corps train
their aviators at the same place.

(07:17):
Now it's a lot of joint trainingand, and cross training with Air
Force. And, but so I went to NFO school
in Pensacola, FL after the basicschool.
And so it was pretty exciting toget selected to go to NFO
school, you know, did well enough in NFO school in

(07:37):
Pensacola to get selected to theHornet community.
But just a quick context, I spent two years in flight
school. So if you think my peers, we
graduated the basic school and those who went infantry, you
know, went right across the street to infantry officer
school. And then they're in the fleet,
Marine forces leading Marines, gaining experience.

(07:59):
And, and you know, my buddies and, and me in flight school,
like it's two years on a Navy base and it's exciting and it's
Pensacola, but you're not in thefleet.
And so we show up to the fleet, I think with a little bit of a
deficit in terms of just having been out there and gaining
experience as a young second Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant.

(08:21):
You know, by the time I hit an operational squadron, I was a
first Lieutenant for just a few few more months.
And then I was, I pinned on captain.
So different pipeline, but so I did.
To finish the answer, your question, went to Marine Corps
Air Station El Toro in Irvine, CA to train up in the Hornet and
then went back to the East Coastat the Marine Corps Air Station

(08:43):
in Beaufort. So first about a three-year
flying tour there, two deployments to Aviano, Italy
during the Bosnian peacekeeping missions in the mid 90s.
That was a whole exciting experience.
And for the Marine Corps, you know, you, you want to stay in
the cockpit as long as you can. Like the Army Warrant Officer
program is a phenomenal example.Those guys and gals are

(09:05):
professional pilots and they stay in the cockpit, you know,
through the, the whole of their career.
So their, their lethality and their, you know, understanding
of the weapon systems and tactics is, is amazing.
We'll always get pulled out of the cockpit and either go do a
staff tour or go to a school foryour appropriate for your rank

(09:27):
as a captain or a major, maybe do a joint tour, maybe become a
Ford air controller and then yougo back to the cockpit.
So was at Quantico for three years and then went back to now
Miramar Marine Corps Air Station, retrained in the
Hornet, and then went back to another fighter squadron and

(09:47):
went to Iraqi Freedom and then came back to headquarters at
Quantico and then ended up retiring out of Quantico in
2009. OK.
Can you talk a little bit about your personal life during that
time, Kids, marriage, stuff likethat?
How how was that going? What was that like?
Yeah, so my call sign and you don't have a choice in call

(10:11):
signs. You know a lot of them, like the
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, his last name is Cain.
And so he's raising Cain. But I was not the only one.
But most of the young lieutenants in flight school
were single. I had my oldest son, who's now
36. He was born 10 days before I
went to officer candidate School.

(10:33):
So that was a challenge for my wife at the time.
And we're now divorced. But yeah, I had my second
oldest, who's the Marine Lieutenant now at the Basic
school. He was born in Pensacola not
long after I checked into flightschool.
So it's there's the training is so intense and you want to
perform, you know, you want to be a high performer regardless,

(10:55):
but especially in the community I was in.
You're competing either to be inthe EA6B Prowler, which is an
absolute, you know, amazing aircraft, but it's not the sexy
fighter jet or you got the two seat Hornet.
Like those are the only options.And I wanted to be in a fighter
squadron. And so the impact I think, well,

(11:19):
not I think I, I remember vividly.
And, you know, you go back and look at things and go, man, what
was I thinking? But I remember a Mother's Day,
You know, here's my, my wife of two years, almost three years, I
guess three years when my, my second oldest was born, but two
young kids living on base and Mother's Day.

(11:41):
And she woke up to a a hastily written Mother's Day card, the
simulator and I look back on that and go like, did that move
the needle at all for your gradepoint average?
It just, it was one of those things where.
Tunnel vision to. You how do you focus on the task
at hand as a professional war fighter trying to get through

(12:02):
this, you know, pretty intense flight school, but had a young
family. And so that I think that was an
issue for, you know, we can go deeper into the the impact of
service on families. But you know, she was an amazing
mom to our kids still is, but I was gone a lot.

(12:23):
You learned very quickly how to compartmentalize because if you
don't when you're on deployment,you know, you got a kid whose
birthday you missed or birth, You know, my my middle son who's
30. I met him when he was almost
five months old because I couldn't leave the deployment in
Italy. And it's just it's a hard thing.
You can't get those those moments back.

(12:43):
So the strain on on my family was was pretty significant and
not unique, unfortunately. But I think that's one of the
biggest challenges for any, you know, guys, gals in service, how
do they focus on the task at hand, whether it's combat,
whether it's training, whether it's, you know, developing a

(13:05):
point paper on a logistics system, whatever the case is,
because excellence is expected. And how do you make sure that
you are investing time in your in your young family as well?
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(13:26):
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(13:47):
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Yeah, well said. I want to talk about your
transition out of the military into civilian life and and

(14:07):
corporate life essentially too. But let's get into project
Healing waters where you find yourself now, where you're
leading now. How would you?
Describe Hate to put you on the spot, but the mission of Project
Healing Waters. Yeah.
So our goal, our mission is to, is to get veterans of any era

(14:27):
who could benefit from a healingjourney for whatever is is in
need of healing. Our our actual mission, which we
just changed officially. And I'm excited about that and
can talk to it. But it's healing America's
veterans through the therapeuticart of fly fishing.
And it's very simple. And so everything that we do in

(14:47):
our programming, which I'll talkto with time flies, building
rods, learning how to cast, likethere's no cost.
This is important, especially for any veterans that are
listening or people want to volunteer.
There's no cost to the almost 7000 veterans we serve every
year across the country. And there's no experience.

(15:09):
And I'm a great example. I'm I'm new to angling still.
And they, I said that to the board when we were interviewing
and I said, I don't really fish.I've learned a little bit.
And they said, we need your leadership experience.
We need your business background.
We'll teach you how to fish. And and so I'm slowly getting
there. But I will say if I could talk

(15:30):
about the mission of why we changed it.
Yeah. And there's the the we got an
awesome, I love to plug the partners who helped us get like.
It's a great website. Oh, it's phenomenal.
Pause there. If you're right in that video,
that's an amazing video that that you know, maybe you can put
a link to or people go there, but it's called 20 years of a

(15:50):
healing journey. This is our 20th anniversary.
That's a powerful 4 minutes to go.
Wow. This is this is how fly fishing
and being in the outdoors and being together in a community in
that tribe. This is why it's healing.
So the our founder, Ed Nicholson, who's just an amazing

(16:12):
individual, he was a retired Navy captain O 6.
So he was a surface warfare. I think he did some riverine
missions and stuff in Vietnam. Just a great guy and then came
out like most of us did. He was AO 6 and you know, did
business and that kind of stuff.But he was in 2005, he was in

(16:32):
Walter Reed Army Medical Center for his own cancer treatments.
And if you think of O5, that's four years of sustained combat
between, you know, starting in Afghanistan and then Iraq.
And so the ward was filled with kids, missing limbs, post
traumatic stress, you know, traumatic brain injury, which is

(16:54):
still so relatively unknown in terms of what are the real
impacts guys. And you probably know some too.
Good friends of mine are snipers, like every concussion
of, you know, the sniper round, like those are micro traumatic
brain injuries. And so just learned a tremendous
about that amount about that. But he looked at them and he's a

(17:18):
lifelong angler and outdoorsman and he talked to the hospital
administrator and he said, Hey, can I just take them outside of
the grass and teach them how to cast?
And I talked about this so much,but it's such a powerful story.
I'm, I'm confident he didn't think in that moment.
And 20 years from now we'll have170 local chapters in, you know,

(17:39):
45 states or whatever. But I do believe he had a
profound understanding of if I can get them outdoors first of
all, and out of this sterile kind of depressing environment
and get a fly rod in their hand,whether they've ever touched one
or not, I think we can, I think I can help them.
And so it progressed from just learning how to cast on the

(18:01):
grass to they cast on the the pond that's there at Walter
Reed. And he said, I think I have
something here. And so that's how we started.
But the mission had always been understandably and appropriately
so, to serve disabled service members and disabled veterans.

(18:22):
And for your audience who may not know what that means is the,
the VA will determine as we get out of the, the military, if we
go get evaluated, they will determine if we have what they
call a service connected disability.
And I know you know this, Jesse,but you can have a 0% rating, up
to 100% rating. And so when I was getting

(18:45):
interviewed back in 2022 and having been in the veteran
nonprofit space, you know, at the time, little over 8 years, I
know that that disability ratingis sometimes hard to come by
and, and often times by choice to not go get it.
So young Marines want to get out.

(19:07):
They want to go into law enforcement or fire or whatever
else. And and they don't want to go
get assessed by a Doctor Who says, man, Jesse, like your
hearing is not, we think your hearing is impacted by the, you
know, the IED that you were in or some peacetime thing, but you
have traumatic brain injury or you got post traumatic stress.

(19:30):
People don't want a diagnosis like that to impact their post
military career. Some people won't go to the VA
because they won't trust them. You know, there's, there's lots
of stories out there and some tragic ones. the VA does a lot
of good work. I think that doesn't get
highlighted as much. But and then this is the most
common one. I think I won't go to the VA

(19:52):
because I'm like, man, Jesse needs that money more than I do.
And if I'm getting evaluated andgetting monthly payments from
the VA, I'm taking money away from Jesse.
It's sort of a noble thing, but it's totally inaccurate.
If I get obsessed by the VA, that's a benefit that I got
because I raised my right hand. It's the exact same 1 you got.

(20:14):
So I'm not taking anything. Veterans aren't taking anything
from another veteran. But it's a way to say no, I
don't need that. The problem is.
Suicide for veterans 45 and under is still the second
leading cause of death. We have this demographic and
that that age group is, for all those reasons I talked about,
less likely to go to the VA. So we have this group of young

(20:38):
people, I'm 60, so I can say that, but they're killing
themselves at the cyclic rate. And we had a conditional
criteria, if you have this, thenyou can come on a healing
journey of the project healing water.
So it's been a big push for me. And the board is fully in
support to say, and it's not open to everybody.

(20:59):
Like, again, patrol base Abbate is if you served, you know, this
is, this is your patrol base. And that's great for us.
It's could you benefit from coming on a healing journey?
And it, it doesn't matter whether it's combat related, you
know, go back to the suicide rate.
I think a lot of civilians think, oh man, veteran suicide

(21:20):
because of combat trauma. That's not the reason.
It's because they feel it's no different than any other
suicide, you know, 'cause it's isolation, feeling disconnected,
feeling in that moment. Well, there's really nobody
that's going to care anyway. And I don't have a connection.

(21:41):
And so that can happen whether you deployed 20 times, you know,
as part of a SEAL team or, or special forces, or whether you
never deployed, but you got injured in a peacetime training
thing and you got medically discharged after three years and
now you have this imposter syndrome or whatever the case

(22:02):
is. So we want to bring people in
not conditionally with that disability rating, although we
obviously still serve disabled veterans, but it's allowing us
to open up that aperture to go, hey, could you benefit from
this? And and I talked to people like
I'm so glad you did this becauseI need this more than I thought.

(22:24):
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(23:11):
code word strength for 35% off your first order and get started
today. No, you're not at all.
You're fine and that's that's that's beautiful.
The fact that you're you're basically the message there is
it doesn't matter how does my words, not yours, but how
intense your military service was.
If you're experiencing these things, if you're feeling this

(23:32):
way, your doors are open to anybody.
And I think that's beautiful. And, and a key question here
that I'll use the, the art of fly fishing.
But why is it, or what is it about the art of fly fishing
that you found that helps peopleto heal?
So first of all, it's outdoors and I think any of us, there's a

(23:55):
tremendous amount of, of data, Ishould be able to quote it at
this point. But there's a tremendous amount
of studies that have been done that show scientifically how
being in the outdoors, whether it's, you know, we have the, the
benefit and privilege of living in Colorado where, you know, you
can look out the window and see the Rockies and be in Estes in
45 minutes and all those things.But wherever you are, if we can

(24:18):
get away from our phones and, and inside and get outside,
there's a, it's a, it's restorative just to be outdoors
fly fishing and, and that art. There's a couple things at play.
So our program for programming components are learning how to
tie flies. People have an interest, not a

(24:40):
requirement. They can build their own fly
rod, which is pretty cool. They learn how to cast
something. I still haven't done very well,
but I'm, I'm learning, I'm I'm leading while I'm learning.
And then they go on outings and there's education opportunities.
And so I'll start with the with the tying flies.

(25:02):
It's a, and I don't know if you have any experience in fly
fishing or, or any of this zero.OK, so the you know, these flies
and it's cool, you see like the mayflies and stuff, the Hatch
that is all over our houses a couple months ago.
When you're fishing, you're trying, as people say, try to
match the Hatch, right? So people will tie these flies

(25:24):
that that look like and mimic inthe water or on top of the
water, the natural bugs that thethe fish are looking for and
they come up and and try to eat it and then they go, this thing
has a sharp thing in it. And now I'm being drug over to a
net. So sometimes, but the precision
that it takes and the focus whenyou're sitting in front of a

(25:46):
vise on this tiny, tiny little hook and putting little pieces
of, you know, fur and thread andall these other things in
different colors, the focus to do that allows a veteran
participant and I'll use traumatic brain injury, but it
can just, sometimes people just can't focus.
You have to focus. And you watch them and they have

(26:08):
a mentor and an instructor and they're just doing this and they
look at it like, Oh my gosh, I just spent an hour not thinking
about the things that I'm struggling with because I wanted
to get this just right. And it's, it's amazing to watch
that. Same with rod building.
You know, it's over the course of several weeks putting

(26:29):
together, you know, a carbon fiber rod and putting all the
guides on it. And you're doing all these kind
of precise things that creates this stick that you then put a
reel on and then you take those flies that you tied yourself
first time ever and Start learning how to cast and get

(26:52):
them in the water. And if you take the whole arc of
the programming from I've never done any of this, Oh my gosh, I
tied three flies and my instructor said they look great
and they're going to catch fish.It built a rod.
I'm learning still how to cast. And we went out on the Puda
River here, you know, right nearus or went out on a, on a

(27:15):
Stillwater bass pond in Tennessee, wherever.
And I caught a fish with the flythat I tied and the rod that I
built and it that moment of, of victory and excitement.
And they call it fishing, not catching for a reason, because
the more times than not, the fish either won't bite or

(27:37):
they'll spit out the, the fly orwhatever.
But it's a really powerful moment.
And so the, the art of casting, like there's a, when you're
focused on, you know, 10 and two.
And I'm, I'm trying to get the line out to that place and let
it drift down to here and all those things.

(27:58):
And especially if you're again, standing in one of the rivers we
have here in Colorado or somewhere else, and you're with
your buddies, you know, brothersand sisters, and you're all
giving each other crap because that's still the military, you
know, SOP. Hey, nice catch in the tree
behind you, but you have to force yourself to think about

(28:20):
the things that you may be struggling with, whether it's,
you know, I just lost my job. You know, we talked about, you
know, current events and a lot of people, you know, lost jobs
they didn't expect to. Finances are challenging.
I have a daughter who's we just discovered a medical issue and
we're not sure how we're going to pay for like human condition,

(28:42):
right? It's not it's not unique to
veterans. And I think that's something I'd
love to talk about how we're just part of the community.
Look at you and me, look at Anthony across the street, all
veterans in the same neighborhood, in the same
community. And I guarantee you there's guys
and gals just like the three of us who've never served in the
military. But the things that we all

(29:02):
experience, I know you know yourstory.
We're all part of the same community.
And so, but I think when you're out there fishing and just that
there's an art to when you see somebody who can really cast and
you watch the loop of the line and it's just like now you have
something to strive for to get better and, and all those
things. So I think being outdoors and

(29:23):
just the, there's a rhythmic artto that.
And then on a deeper level, you talk about flow state, like
literally being in, in the Puda River or Big Thompson or, you
know, anywhere out here feeling the water or just, you know,
you're holding your balance and it's, it's cold and it's just,

(29:44):
it's an amazing thing to, to be outdoors.
So I think that's really the, it's not secret sauce either,
but that's that and the camaraderie that we build this,
I call it continuity of community.
If you know, you're going to go to a meeting every two weeks and
you met, you know, Sarah and shetaught you how to tie flies and

(30:05):
her husband grew up in the same part of New Jersey as you did.
And now you start to make these these really deep connections
and that keeps you from that point of being isolated to the
point that you want to take yourown life.
Like that's really what we're here for is to build resilience
because of the community and because you know, somebody cares

(30:27):
about you and you care about them and now you have a
relationship that you want to maintain.
That's part of that whole tribe component as well.
As I was listening to you, it's funny, when I was just, I've
been thinking about this conversation for like 2 weeks
and I was asking myself before Iheard you had the opportunity to
explain why the art of fly fishing helps people in their
healing journey. I was trying to like come up

(30:49):
with it on my own. You know, I've been on your
website and it's, it's interesting because I landed on
essentially 3, the three things that you called out there.
One is community or tribe, or should I say, which is an
antidote to isolation outdoors. And, and that's science, like
getting outdoors. We know literally it changes
your, your neurochemistry. But then that last one, I'll

(31:10):
call it like a deep prolonged focus on something like a skill
set that you're developing. I just words that come to my
mind but. I I've started for the.
First time in my life consistently seeing a therapist
and it's something I've known that I should have done.
My whole life but. That's a whole other episode,
but one of the things that she'staught me in getting to know me

(31:31):
is that I'm often times dysregulated.
I'm emotionally dysregulated. You just gave examples of
reasons why someone might be dysregulated.
You have all these things on your mind.
You have. The health of your daughter you
have the. Health of your business.
You have. The chores around the house,
right? But like often times, I find
myself of experiencing this baseline of tension and urgency
and it's very uncomfortable. And then in the process of

(31:53):
understanding dysregulation, what I've learned about myself
is that my mind is incredibly active and.
It's always. Worrying about something, it's
always reflecting on past decisions I've made.
I'm never living in the present.And when I've been thinking
about project healing words and the art of fly fishing, what it
what it occurred to me and you just eloquently said it is, it's
a mechanism to encourage like deep, prolonged.

(32:16):
Focus which? Heals your brain, which is
something that unless you are intentional to force yourself to
focus, whether that's your mindfulness practice, where
that's even reading a book. Which can be hard for.
People to do when they're constantly urgent.
What I realized is that the experience, and you just
described it like you have to learn something and you can't

(32:36):
get good at it unless you're focused and there's detail and
there's building. Just some words that came into
my mind. But like, there's agency.
Like sometimes our lives feel out of control and being able to
build a rod that works and learnhow to use it and cast it and
practice it and eventually be successful by catching a fish,

(32:57):
you're almost creating this agency that you might not have
in your life that feels good. You feel like you're in control.
There's gratification, there's fulfilment, there's camaraderie,
there's community. So all that to say, like I can
see how fly fishing is a mechanism to create that
environment, which if you stick to it and you're consistent, can

(33:17):
help you to. Heal over time, especially the.
Community piece because there's nothing like meeting with like
minded people and feeling seen and heard and understood and
we're in isolation and especially intentional isolation
that's where as we talked about earlier those negative feelings
snowball and they can snowball and snowball to a point where
you can make a a a pretty prettydevastating decision for your

(33:40):
life but. Well said.
Tolerating my diatribe. That feedback, Jesse, because
that's I wrote, I took notes on on your notes because that's a
it's a great thing. Thank you.
Yeah, well, you tolerated a a little anecdote for me, so thank
you for that. But let's talk about two final
things as we wrap up. One for anyone listening,
veteran or not, how do you, how can they take some of these

(34:02):
fundamental lessons that you've learned and fundamental things
that project Healing World does and apply them to their own
lives? And then just point people
towards either resources, website, etcetera where they can
find and hopefully follow and join in.
Yeah, for sure. I think what you just said, what
we just talked about, it's the whether you're a veteran or not.
And again, we're, we're in a community, our, our shared

(34:25):
experiences, whether we put a uniform on or not, inform our
daily activities, inform how we interact with people in the
grocery store, whatever the case.
And so I think, I think for anybody listening who is
struggling with some of these things and what you just
articulated the, the cacophony of thoughts in our head that

(34:49):
agitates to a point of sometimesincapacitation.
You have so many things in your brain that you can't even do
anything because you think of all the things that you have to
do. So I think being intentional is
a word that you just used, whichwe talked about as well.
Committing to an intentional activity that allows you to not

(35:15):
look at your phone while you're having a conversation with
somebody. That is just, I want to learn a
skill. And I think whether it's picking
up a guitar, whether it's learning fly fishing, whether
it's reading, like you said, like I have to focus and I can't
focus. And so I'm going to sit in my
backyard and I'm going to put myphone in the refrigerator away

(35:38):
from me and I'm going to come and I'm going to read.
I'm going to read 3 chapters like, you know, set.
It's like anything. And you know, from a fitness
standpoint, set realistic goals and all those other things.
So I think being intentional about an activity and
specifically for fly fishing, especially for those who are not
a veteran, if they want to get involved in something like

(35:59):
project healing Waters or directly our volunteers, you
know, we have 4000 active volunteers across the country.
I say, you know, we are 13 strong and our our national
staff, but the volunteers are the point of impact for our
mission. Be a volunteer.
And I've talked to so many who are like St.

(36:21):
I think I get more out of this than the veteran participants
do, which is it's a wonderful thing to hear.
I doubt that it's true, but the fact that they can both have
this. I mean, there's something about
service and serving others. I've always, you know, taught my
kids and others, like, if you'restruggling with something, go
help somebody else. Like there's this power in

(36:42):
serving someone else at whateverlevel and for whatever need and
being able to be mentors. So I just met a guy in our
neighborhood who saw our big project healing waters truck in
my driveway. He's a, he's a big time angler,
not a veteran. He goes, man, I'd love to help.
And so I think there is healing and helping others in that

(37:02):
service. And then on a personal level,
what we just talked about being able to focus on something that
that provides satisfaction and, and a sense of accomplishment
and achievement. And you can look at those things
in our lives, whether it's building a business, raising
kids, building a family, Rod, you're like, I that satisfies me

(37:23):
because I did that with help from others and all those
things. So and people who want to learn
more about the organization can just go to our website,
projecthealingwaters.org. There's all kinds of information
about whether you are a veteran and want to become a
participant, whether you want tovolunteer either as a veteran or
civilian. And again, some of our best

(37:45):
volunteers, most committed are, are not veterans and, and
investors. And you know, this being in the
nonprofit space, we exist through the generosity of those
who see what our mission is doing and want to make sure it
continues and that we can grow. So donors, investors in the
mission are critical to to what we do so.

(38:09):
Yeah, awesome. And I'm going to link to the
website. I'm also going to link to some
resources if you are experiencing maybe suicidal
ideation, mental health issues, veteran or not.
So I'll put all of those things in the episode description and
I'll say this was an absolute privilege and honor to host you,
Sir. Thank you for coming on the
show. It's.
It's I love, you know, we've been talking for an hour and a
half and I we could still go if we didn't have other meetings.

(38:32):
So we'll, we'll pick this up locally in the neighborhood, but
really a pleasure and a privilege, Jesse, I appreciate
the opportunity. Pleasure's mine, Pleasure's
mine. Thanks for joining the show.
Live deep, everybody. All right everybody, that's the
show. Folks.
Thank you so much for tuning into this podcast and spending
some time with us today. We've got a favor to ask.

(38:53):
If you enjoyed the show, would you please consider subscribing
to the show and even leaving a rating and review?
That simple act drastically helps us reach more people in
our mission to help them live better.
Longer. Healthier lives.
You can also follow us if you'd like on Instagram and YouTube
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(39:16):
and so much more. Know that your support fuels our
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So until next time, stay strong and live deep.

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Healing Veterans Through the Art of Fly Fishing | Lt. Col. John "Saint" Langford

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Healing Veterans Through the Art of Fly Fishing | Lt. Col. John "Saint" Langford